tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN October 16, 2015 5:00pm-7:01pm EDT
not what we go for, to ensure babies born alive in such instances are given necessary medical care to house passed hr 3504, the born alive some abortion survivors protection act which requires baby surviving an abortion be given the same treatment and care that would be given to any child naturally born premature at the same age and impose criminal penalties at the federal level to prevent the killing of innocents human babies born alive. moreover, these videos indicate abortion practitioners may have adopted new abortion procedures to avoid the risk of violating a partial-birth abortion ban act. in the 1st video the senior director of medical services at planned parenthood federation of america stated that, quote the federal abortion ban is a law, and laws are up to interpretation,". today's hearing is intended to explore what
interpretations have arisen since the law's passage. i look forward to listening to our witnesses here today, and it is my pleasure to recognize the ranking member of the committee. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and members of the committee. we want to take a moment to walk through the events that have led up to this hearing. we know from reports that the german from arizona, mr. frs majority have viewed at least some of the videos about a month before they were released. july 15 of this year the 1st video was released to the public.
others were posted online. three different house committees then launched simultaneous congressional investigations. on september 9 this committee held its 1st hearing on the topic. discuss the videos the heart of the matter. there have been sense to other hearings on this topic, mh in the house in less than a month command finally, the majority has announced that it will create a new taxpayer-funded select committee to extend the so-called investigation and definitely. as i reflect on these events , i think we are able to draw some conclusions, the 1st being that there
is no evidence in the record whatsoever of illegal activity at planned parenthood. on behalf of its 59 affiliates, the planned parenthood federation of america has provided this committee with hundreds of pages of documents. the organization is cooperating fully with all three investigations in the house. the documents we have reviewed so far allows us to go.by.to correct the false impressions created by the highly edited, highly misleading video that nominally inspired these investigations. chairman j fits who sits on this committee and is running his own investigation into these matters and the oversight committee next-door has
agreed with this conclusion. last week of blitzer asked the gentleman from utah, is there any evidence that planned parenthood has broken any law? mr. j fits answered with the truth, no, i am not suggesting that they broke the law. i am led to conclude that this hearing much like the broader attack on planned parenthood may be political theater. maybe. designed to rally the conservative base and rollback constitutional right to choose wherever possible. in practice these investigations have had little to do with the videos which some went to great
lengths not to discuss at our last hearing. they had everything to do with appeasing the most conservative elements giant editorship party leadership process and a fractious presidential primary. they may have a legitimate difference of opinion on roe v wade, but it remains the law of the land. in an attempt by some to relitigate the 40 -year-old decision places thousands of lives risk. many women enter the healthcare system through a family planning provider. in fact, six in ten women who who receive services at a publicly funded family planning center consider it their primary source of medical care.
planned parenthood alone serves 2.7 million americans every year. abortion procedures make up an incredibly small amount of the services it provides. only 3 percent. for example, in 2013 planned parenthood provided 900,000 cancer screenings to women across the country. 88,000 of those tests detected cancer early or identified abnormalities that might signal a greater risk of cancer. a short, and this way and so many others planned parenthood saves lives. and so the attempt to defund planned parenthood places each of those lives at risk. we shouldwe should be grateful that the effort has been almost entirely unsuccessful, at least so
far on the federal level and finally it is important to observe all of the good work this committee could be doing instead of meeting for the 2nd time on this subject in 30 days. and and as we head into our 2nd election season since shelby county were sold, this committee has done very little, could do a lot more to restore the enforcement mechanisms of the voting rights act. we have done little to advance comprehensive immigration reform. and even though proposals remain overwhelmingly popular and would probably easily pass the house, we have got to start acting, and so 11 million men and women are waiting to come out of the shadows and contribute to our economy
and communities, and at this pace, i fearpace, i fear that they will have to wait even longer, and although the scourge of gun violence has touched every one of our districts, including yours, mr. chairman, we have all but ignored calls to strengthen background checks and close the gun show loophole. while these would save lives, all are consistent with our constitutional rights, and the list of missed opportunities as long , and our time is short. we should not spend one more minute or one more taxpayer dollars vilifying planned parenthood without a speck of evidence to back these claims. this committeethis committee has too much important work to do, and i urge my
colleagues to help us put this kind of theater behind us. we can do better. ii think the chairman and appreciate the opportunity to express my views. >> there is one minute remaining in this vote. happilyhappily we are much 320 members who have not yet voted. had to the floor, and the committee will stand in recess. [inaudible conversations] >> the committee will reconvene. and it is not my pleasure to recognize the chairman of the subcommittee on the constitution and civil justice, the children from arizona, mr. franks, for his
opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the tiny diaper that i hold in my hand is one made to fit premature born alive babies. micro preemies or ultra preemies, they are called. i 1st saw one coming it moved my heart deeply because i think ii think i saw it in the context of the numerous video recordings that have been released in recent months that tragically demonstrate that there is no monopoly on the abortion industries unspeakable and murderous cruelty to unborn children and little babies who actually survive the trauma of going through an abortion it is the little babies of exactly this age and stage of development that these old a fisherman to fit.
why the response to these videos has been to try to discredit them in every way possible. they really have no choice. because if they fail to discredit these videos or to dissuade people from seeing them, they know that anyone with a conscience who does watch these videos will finally see planned parenthood and the abortion industry from they truly are. and this murderous industry will be rejected in the hearts of the american people. however, mr. chairman, a forensic digital analysis by coal fire systems incorporated of these video recordings conclusively indicate that the videos are in the authentic and show no evidence of manipulation or deceptive editing.
this conclusion is supported by the consistency of the video file dates, timestamps , video time codes , as well as the folder and file naming scheme. the uniformity between the footage from the cameras from the two different investigators also confirms the evidence that these video recordings are completely authentic. mr. chairman, our response as a people and nation to these atrocities incontrovertibly documented by these videos is vital to every thing that those lying out in arlington national cemetery died to save. the house of representatives recently passed hr 3504, the born alive abortion survivors protection act command i am told that democrats in the senate intenseintensive filibuster even this bill that protects not unborn children but rather little children who have been born alive. no one
can obscure the humanity and personhood of these little born alive babies or claim conflict with the now completely separate interests of the mother and child, nor can they take refuge within this schizophrenic paradox roe v wadev wade has subjected this country to for now more than 40 years. mr. chairman, the abortion industry has labored for all of these decades to convince the world that born children and unborn children should be completely separated in our minds. in the past they have said that while born children are persons worthy of protection , unborn children are not persons and are not worthy of protection. but those same people who now oppose this bill to protect born alive children suddenly have the impossible task of trying to rejoin these born children and these unborn children back together again and then
trying to convince us all to condemn them both, born and unborn as now collectively in human, and neither are worthy of protection after all. to anyone who is not a defensively hardened their heart and soul, and honest consideration of this absurd inconsistency is profoundly enlightening because you see, mr. chairman, this country has faced such a paradox before. we have faced such self-imposed blindness before, because there was a time in our own parliamentary rules in this house that we bannedban discussion or debate about the effort to end human slavery in america. but that debate did come, and with it a time when the humanity of the victims and the inhumanity of what was being done to them finally became so glaring that it
moved an entire generation of the american people to find a compassion and courage. and now to this generation, that moment has come again. and i implore every member of this committee to ask two questions, 1st is deliberately turning a blind eye to the suffering and murder of the most help us helpless of all of our children born alive in the united states of america who we have truly become as a nation? and second, is voting against are filibustering against a bill to protect born alive human babies from agonizing dismemberment and death who i have become and want to be remembered for as a member of the united states congress. and with that, mr. chairman, i would yield back.
>> the chair thanks the gentleman and recognizing the ranking member, the children from tennessee for his opening statement. >> thank you. appreciate the time. the 2nd time in 30 days we are holding a full committee hearing ostensibly on whether planned parenthood has violated any laws. as the ranking member and many others have made clear, there is no current chief of credible evidence supporting any allegation that planned parenthood has broken any law. ironic that we do this on the day that honors diane edwards passed so many lost to protect people civil rights and to move this country forward and to this date when the committee does very little. knowing that there is no ground to stand on, the majority has chosen instead
to move the goalposts. goalposts. i suspect this hearing will ultimately dissolve into the never-ending argument over whether the supreme court rightly decided roe v wade which has guaranteed a woman's constitutional right to choose. it is the law of the land. there is no such thing as murder. most of my democratic colleagues strongly believe in the may the phone was right to choose. different values and backgrounds. strongly believed in planned parenthood.
wewe could be talking about gun violence, people dying in oregon and all around this country, but were not doing that. wethat. we could be talking about pardons and commutations for nonviolent offenders. i thank the chairman. but we are not. let us not forget this entire exercise is based on heavily edited videos doctor to make planned parenthood engaged in unlawful conduct, which it is not,not, including the for profit sales of fetal organs and tissues. at this point ask unanimous consent to play in compilation of a portion of the unedited video of doctor deborah new katella from abortions that weportions that we do not see in the edited video in which she makes clear that planned parenthood does not sell tissue will organsorgans for profit and to enter that video into the record. >> without objection the video will be shown and made a part of the record. >> thank you, and if we can
would all please rise i will begin my swearing un. the swear the testimony are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth so help you got? thank you. theyou. the witnesses may be seated, and let the record reflect they all responded in the affirmative. an obstetrician gynecologist. he has practiced obstetrics and gynecology and private and university settings including as an associate professor of the gyn at the albany medical college. she expressed concerns about
webcam abortions and has since become a strong voice. widely published in a range of legal and constitutional issues. a frequent guest on television and radio shows. carolyn served as the director of the aclu's washington legislative office and director of pro-choice america. final witness, a public speaker for operation outcry, a ministry that seeks to educate the public about the devastating consequences of abortion.
if she were 12 weeks pregnant or less for basically the length of your hand or small you could do the entire procedure with this. after sectioning the amniotic fluid around you introduce an instrument on the sofa clamp,, about 13 inches long and made of stainless steel. the businessthe business end is to half inches long and a half inch wide. rosa start -- sharp teeth. this is a grasping instrument. it's a blind abortion. picture yourself introducing this and grabbing anything you can blindly and paul and , i mean, hard. out pops a leg. reaching again, pulling in. use this instrument again
and again to tear out the spine, intestines, heart, and lungs. the head on the baby that size is about the size of a large plum. you can't see it, but a pretty good idea you got it if you have your instrument around something in your fingers are spread. you know you did it right if you crush down and white material runs out, that was the babies brains. then you can pull out pieces of the skull. congratulations, you just successfully performed a 2nd trimester abortion and affirm the right to choose. we talk about abortions even later, 23 weeks and up, and were talking up to 35 weeks and essentially all the way to turn, the most commonly used procedure at this point is called the mold technique i have not done this myself, but i, but i have the abortionist themselves in the clinic describe we are talking about. will you please run my video. >> the video will be run.
>> how i help you? >> i was hoping to schedule an abortion. >> all right. what was the date of your last period? >> it was the middle of may, may 15 probably. >> it looks like we can do this for you but it is going to be aa weeklong procedure. if your able to come next week and start this on the 12th 80 selling eject? >> barely. >> you also need to keep in mind every week that goes by the fee goes up by another thousand dollars. >> we get until we 27. you are about a month off. >> it's going straight and
to the sac to the pregnancy. it's bottom down. it will insert through the baby's bottom. if its head down it will be inserted through the head. if we can catch it early enough. you will want to unlock the door. >> and what if it does come out when i'm on the toilet? >> you don't have to look downit down or do anything. the dr. or nurse will come take care of it.
if you feel like is too much to see any of it, then don't let yourself look at it. if you want to cover yourself even with a towel or something, go ahead. if you are one of those lucky people it has no pain or contractions. >> if i'm on the toilet and the pops out and it's in the toilet, what do i do? >> it then stay there and don't move until we can get there. >> i will have to worry about taking it out or anything. >> you don't have to do anything. >> okay. >> for $10,000 a woman 27 weeks pregnant gets to labor alone, unattended in a hotel room with no one there to watch her vital signs or otherwise attend her command of her baby delivers in the toilet, her, her undead son
or daughter, so be it. thank you. >> thank you. >> welcome. >> thank you, mr. chairman, members of the committee. from april 1991 until december 2008 i was employed as center manager. ii spent 17 years learning from the inside out just how planned parenthood works. i concluded that no business, certainly no healthcare business should view a woman's body as a profit center, but that is what planned parenthood is all about. they are more concerned with profits in the health of women. when i 1st began working for planned parenthood i was i was convinced i was serving our community and the health needs of women. as the parent of five children including three adopted kids and a foster mom 230 kids is the past 20 20 years i did not sit well into planned parenthood's corporate culture.
the during my initial interview and expressed concerns about abortion, i was hired and promoted by planned parenthood. i believe that i could help reduce abortion and serve women. over time i learned that i was wrong to trust planned parenthood and i'm here today because all people need to no the truth. in 2002 the remains of a newborn were discovered in a trash dump in my small iowa town. after determining the child is born alive that sheriff investigating the murder of this child came to my clinic to seek medical records of potential suspects. i assumed planned parenthood would want to cooperate with this criminal investigation. investigation. instead, they turned the murder into a fundraising opportunity and falsely claimed all women's health records would be compromised that a woman's right to abortion was under attack. as it often seems to do, planned parenthood raised thousands of dollars from this sort of event.
like most of iowa planned parenthood clinic's birth control pills were dispensed without the patient's ever having been seen by medical professional. once a week a nurse practitioner would come to the planned parenthood clinics to sign off on birth control prescriptions that have been dispensed the prior week. in 2007 i learned more about the truth of planned parenthood when implemented with abortion. here is how this was to work. a woman with a positive pregnancy test will beof the offered a webcam abortion on the spot so she could not change her mind. next and nonmedical clinic assistant with minimal training would perform a transvaginal ultrasound and scan the image to a dr. another location. the dr. would briefly talk to the woman by skype television connection the dr. can push a button on her computer that opened a drawer. the woman was told to take one set of pills at the
clinic and in the 2nd set at home 48 hours later. planned parenthood instructed its workers to tell women who experience complications at home to report to their local er. the women were told to say they were experiencing a miscarriage, not that they had undergone a chemical abortion. planned parenthood cut its cost by performing webcam abortions with virtually know overhead for no on-site doctors, no real medical staff,staff, very little equipment, and no expense for travel to remote clinic. yet in charge women the same fee for a chemical abortion as it did for surgical abortion. i expressed my concern the planned parenthood management that webcam abortions were unsafe and possibly illegal so financially successful it has been implemented in iowa and minnesota. they touted as the 1st in the nation.
after i lefti left planned parenthood i realized it had been fraudulently billing iowa medicaid and filed false medicaid claims 1st the dispensed without a prescription medically unnecessary oral contraceptive pills to medicaid patients. second, a billed medicaid for abortion related services in violation of federal law. third, it coerced donations from patients in violation of medicaid regulation. each of these initiatives was implemented to benefit planned parenthood's bottom line. none benefited women's health. planned parenthood is organized as a tax-exempt nonprofit. nevertheless, these are some of the reasons is as reported $765 million in excess revenue over the last ten years. when i 1st began working at planned parenthood i trusted them and thought
leaders knew what was right, but i learned it could not be trusted and does not deserve to be trusted by any american health and safety of women. thank you. >> thank you. >> good afternoon. my name is caroline fredrickson, president of the american constitution society for law and policy. i'm testifying about personal capacity and do not purport to represent any institutional views of the american constitution society. the most recent attack on planned parenthood. and nearly century-old healthcare provider that plays a critical role in securing the right to health care for millions.
each year they provide services such as family planning counseling contraception, breast exams and testing and treatment for sexually transmitted infections the 2.7 million patients and no less than one in five women in the united states has visited the planned parenthood health center at least once for life. 217,000 abortions. 54 percent of these health centers are in rural or medically underserved areas. as many experts have opined there are simply insufficient numbers of alternative healthcare providers to absorb the
patients who need care should they lose access to planned parenthood. planned parenthood health centers are particularly crucial for poor women in this country. more than half of planned parenthood's 2.7 million patients each year rely on public health programs such as medicaid to cover the cost. 78% of planned parenthood's patients live with incomes of 150 percent of the federal poverty level unless. indeed, and 68% of the counties with the planned parenthood health ctr., planned parenthood serves at least half of all safety net family patients. an internal part of providing critical healthcare services to many women this most recent round
of attacks on planned parenthood was instigated by an anti-choice organization, the center for medical progress is members deceptively infiltrated planned parenthood clinics and conferences claiming they worked for procurement company. then over the course of several months the released numerous videos of these encounters. at the outset regardless of the concept of the videos has released which arguably show no wrongdoing, those videos are unreliable and unusable as any evidence because they have been so heavily on selectively edited. express their authenticity, and those experts including grant fredericks, contract instructor of video sciences
and one of the most experienced video experts in north america found many deceptive editing is videos, in many cases there was edited dialogue out of context in ways that edit alter the meaning of the dialogue. there is no question that both the shorter videos in the so-called full footage videos are selectively and intentionally edited incomplete. cannot be relied upon for any official inquiries. moreover, every jurisdiction that has conducted an investigation and planned parenthood's activities have found no wrongdoing. sick states have completed investigations into whether planned parenthood violated any laws in its fetal tissue donation program. all six unanimously concluded planned parenthood did not. in fact chairman of the
house committee on oversight and government reform at length just last week admitted to the wolf blitzer know, i'm not suggesting that the flaw. in some there is no evidence as we all know, this is one in a long length the videos that have been used to try and undermine women's access to the full reproductive healthcare they are entitled to under the law in america and have need to ensure they can live the lives. i respect the committee and thank you for inviting me here to talk about this important issue. >> thank you. welcome. >> thank you. i was a teenager when i am my 1st abortion, i was too afraid to tell my parents and my boyfriend and i want
a baby. i made my. i was then taken back to run with a nurse and asked how i felt about the thedecidedly wrong. it had to be a baby. she told me it was just a blob of tissue and this would be easier and safer than if i carried it to term. i was a scared teenager with no knowledge. they were the trusted medical professionals and adults. i trusted them believed it. the type of abortion i had was the vacuum aspirator method, the most common done. i never met before, which is most times the case.
he said that ii would just feel targeting and a slight sensation. i could here the increased labor and every time the suction machine would pull apart or limb of my baby from a body. each time i kept trying to sit up to see what was going into the jar. was it my baby? they keep pushing me back down and telling me to lie still. as soon as the procedure was over they quickly reeled the jar out of the room with my babies remains. they knew it was my baby. they saw the head. they saw the feet. i wasn't told about fetal development when i was at planned parenthood they did not tell me that my unborn baby that there were overseeing out of my body would have arms, legs tomorrow. the fingerprint, and she
could feel pain on and they want to tell me that? with a afraid i would change my mind? it must've been a wrong choice after knowing all the facts and chose my from a child. i laid in the backseat crying in bleeding profusely and when i got home i called and told them about the pain they told me that this was no longer there problem and i would need to call my own position. there was no way i was going to call my own physician. i was scared and the shape. i painfully later that day and wondered if i would die. started drinking heavily, doing drugs and became promiscuous, i hated myself. mymy life was spinning out of control.
i became pregnant two more times and chose abortion both times. each experience was similar. they took bribes of tissue. i cringe to think. having abortion did not solve my problems it created new ones in larger ones. though i dealt with them was alcohol, drugs, anything to numb the pain. i found open forgiveness in jesus and accepted him as my lord and life began to
change the met a wonderful man and were married and want to start a family for having a success. one of the test was a dyea dye test to determine if there was blockages enough of in terms she showed me where my twos were damaged and mingle. she said i would never have children because of the abortion i laid there paralyzed that the only children out of repair i killed. because of the choices i've made i wondered if you would want a divorce.
we had. a hard road of chairs and sleepless nights and counseling sessions. i learned to forgive myself. i live with the consequences and the pain and the regret of abortion every day along with many other women. inin front of me are pages of sworn testimonies of women who have been hurt and abused physically, emotionally, psychologically. planned parenthood and other abortion industries in general. i'm asking you to please consider these stories in mind when you make
legislation and when you make decisions about defunding planned parenthood and about abortion. all of us who have been hurt by abortion are being made to pay planned parenthood with our tax dollars. you know, the site being forced to pay your abuser over and over again. abortion is not healthcare. it is the taking of innocent life. thank you. >> thank you. we will now proceed underin the five-minute rule with questions for witnesses and i begin by recognizing myself. before i begin my questioning of would like to show a quick video the puts a human face on the issues presented here today. >> just to the call.
>> they are all attached. >> the heart. >> there you go. yeah. >> another boy. >> thank you for sharing with us your very personal experiences following the three abortions you underwent. on planned parenthood's website there are frequently asked questions associated with abortion.abortion. one considers whether their long-term risks associated with abortions dating, safe, uncomplicated abortion does not cause problems for future pregnancies and ultimately most women feel relief after an abortion.
based upon your experience, do you think these characterizations provide women with the information they need about the risks associated with the abortion procedure they are about to undergo? >> no, i do not. i did not here any of those risks or believe the true statement at all. my story proves that this is not safe. i cannot have children, and all the stories prove that. people that. people have been physically harmed. i have a friend who lost a daughter on the table of an abortionist. there are ramifications commanded us are women. >> doctor, the 2,009 national abortion federation textbook on comprehensive abortion care states that some patients were clinicians prefer initiating the abortion procedure with a non- living fetus for emotional reasons or to avoid the problem of a transiently living unit at the time of fetal expulsion.
what in plain english are they referring to in this statement? >> they are referring to five. >> turn your microphone on. the microphone. >> they are referring to bringing about of fetal death prior to initiating the procedure which you can do a couple of ways. one is to the use of the jocks in which is actually what was on the video. another was through the use of potassium chloride. potassium chloride is a more dangerous drug and it is much more difficult to administer effectively. by injecting it either in moderately large doses into the amniotic sac or directly into the fetuses, you can cause fetal death which obviates the problem if your successful you obviate the problem of live birth.
with. with a dna abortion that i described initially between 14 and 24 weeks and dismembering the baby, there is no chance of a live birth at all, but when you use later techniques for you essentially induce labor, if you don't induce fetal death out of time and run the risk of a live birth and have aa situation of a person under law even as our laws are constituted that has a right to medical care which is obviously not going to be available in hotel rooms or in clinics. these women need to be in hospitals. that is what they are referring to. >> thank you. >> one more question. why did you and your practice of doing abortions? >> i did over 1200 abortions over four years in private practice, not counting the ones i did during training. i met my wife during my 1st year of training in albany medical center and we got married a year later and
found that we had in infertility problem. after years of failed treatment several years trying to adopt a child who are blessed with an adopting a little girl we named heather in august of 1978. as sometimes happens, mueller got pregnant the very next month and we had to children two months apart two months shorttwo months short of my daughter heather six birthday she was killed in auto accident and literally died in our arms in the back of an ambulance. anyone whoanyone who has children might think they have some idea what that feels like what do you do after disaster. you bury your child back to life. this was routines to me.
i reached in and literally pull that lower leg and got sick. earlier on ii described stacking up body parts in the side of the table. it's not degrees people out. use a simple term. when youwhen you do an abortion you need to keep inventory. if you don't your patient will come back infected, bleeding, or dead. i finished that abortion, and i no it sounds hard for people to believe, but i am telling you straight up my experience. after over 1200 abortions, 1st and 2nd trimester up to 2424 weeks and all the rest of it and being dedicated to it the 1st time in my life are really looked at that pilot body parts in the side of the table and i did not see your wonderful right to choose or all the money i just made. all i could see was somebody's son or daughter, and i stopped doing late-term abortions after that and several months
later stop doing all abortions. >> thank you. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from michigan 1st question. we have a vote and about 12 minutes remaining. >> yes, sir. i would like to go forward. i want to thank all the witnesses. i have questions for ms. caroline fredrickson, please. i am going to quote from our chairman's memorandum on this hearing. quote, the purpose of this hearing will be to hear from witnesses on the issues surrounding the alleged acts of planned parenthood. so without commenting on its authenticity, does the video played by doctor levantine out earlier have anything whatsoever to do with
planned parenthood? >> i don't see the relevance of the video to a hearinga hearing that is supposed to be focused on planned parenthood itself, and any allegations unsupported as they may be of wrongdoing. so no, mr. conyers, i don't see how they relate to this hearing. >> can you describe the results of the independent forensic analysis of the videos released by the center for medical progress? >> yes, the independent examination of forensic experts found that the videos were completely unreliable because they have been so heavily edited in the lipid -- manipulated and they could not be shown to prove any evidence of any type of wrongdoing. >> as you know, ms. miss fredrickson in your
>> that those procedures be safer than those provided by planned parenthood today. >> mr. conyers, it is true and unfortunate that when abortion was illegal in this century, women did seek abortions and unfortunately those illegal abortions are dangerous. in april women's lives in jeopardy. they do nonetheless seek out abortions and so it is imperative that abortion remains safe and we have it be legal in this country. >> thank you. someone to push to defund planned parenthood. some have claimed that they have observed the patient to planned parenthood and. [inaudible] if they are forced to close their doors. >> that has been described as ludicrous by people in experts
and in public health who see that there is no way that these can fill the gap. [inaudible] >> just about the adequate capacity in the health care system to absorb all of planned parenthood patients? >> no, there is clearly no capacity to do so. and this includes access to contraception and basic access to sexual -- safely transmitted disease, and there would be more abortions and not hearers to thank you, finally, what kinds of patients might be particularly harmed if those
that wanted to defund planned parenthood were successful in their effort? >> mr. conyers, for women, low-income women, women in rural areas would be the one that would suffer most from not having access to the critical services that planned parenthood arrived. >> i thank you very much for your testimony and i think the chairman. >> there are six minutes remaining. the committee will stand in recess and we convene immediately after the vote. >> we are back to order. i recognize the gentleman from
virginia for five minutes. >> mr. chairman. thank you. at the end of the classic movie casablanca, the inspector issues in order to round up the usual suspects. every time that our other friends on the other side of the aisle have a horrific act that is alleged to be done by one of their allies in the may issue a similar order to round up the usual excuses. we have heard them all here today. don't believe your eyes and ears and what you hear on the video. look somewhere else. and for goodness sake, do not focus on this horrific act when you could be focusing on some other horrific act that people we don't like me have committed. this is political theater. if you are sensitive and you do not like the fact that an unborn child is torn apart limb by limb, you have some kind of massive attack on women in general and do not look at the
horrific act that this group may have done because after all, they might have done some other good acts that were not horrific and excuses go on and on. and the reality is that there is simply no point. there is nothing that friends on the other side of the aisle will look at this organization and say that we might like you, but that is just too far. and we cannot condone that. mr. chairman, i would like to now show a video if we could roll it back. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> mr. chairman, we have heard a lot today about the video.
there is no evidence at all, that this video has been edited or anything has been added to it. so the procedures that were discussed in their, crushing an unborn child in more than one place, an unborn child that had a heart and a lungs and liver, that is so well developed that planned parenthood would want to save the heart and the lungs and liver but would not want to save the life that created it. just one simple question. is that brutal? >> i would like to respond. >> is it to brutal? [inaudible] >> answer the question. do you feel that the procedure is to brutal?
can you say, whether you feel it is to brutal or not. >> i feel that abortion should be safe and legal. >> i am not a doctor's. >> let me ask you this question. if you have a small dog and you had to put the dog to sleep, would you think that it would be too brutal for the veterinary to crush that talking to different places? >> i trust women and their doctors to determine what is the best. >> let the record show that she would not answer the question. is that too brutal? >> every abortion involves the destruction of human life. i get frustrated that it's not a baby, it's a fetus, you know, that is your son, that is your daughter and it results in a son
or daughter. if i abuse the dog in my town, i would be arrested. if i did abortions, i would be a hero to so many people. it is absurd. >> just for the record, the point that stirred so many is the exact response that we have heard. that they will not say that any procedure is too far or not enough for us to brutal and that is the purpose because there is a big difference between saying that there may not be a law to protect against something that may not be illegal and to say that there was no wrongdoing because that is wrongdoing. and with that, i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman and i now recognize the gentleman from new york for five minutes.
>> thank you, mr. chairman. we have heard a lot today about saving lives. after 23 years in congress i am shocked by hypocrisy and we continually hear from my friends on the other side of the aisle. since 2013 there have been over 900 mass shootings across the country including 300 mass shootings in 2015. an average of more than one mass shooting every day this year. 10,128 people have been killed this year alone. americans are 20 times more likely to be killed by gun violence than any other developed country. although we have just 30% of the world's population, the u.s. has 90% of the worlds firearm homicide. i think that a 3% of the worlds population. no, nine. since sandy hook the most recent tragedy occurring since the
federal prosecutor right away, but they didn't and they do not. that is why one of my republican colleagues and others announced on tv last week that there is no evidence they have broken any laws. imagine how many lives could save if my colleagues have devoted half of that attention to stopping the epidemic of gun violence. they will claim that they cannot possibly take any action because the right to own a gun is protected by the constitution. it's a funny argument coming from the other side in light of this hearing. and they have no problem tossing this out the window to impose their own model between all american women.
it puts restrictions on rights and women must endure 48 hours before they can undergo the procedure, take time off from work where abortion is still available and indoor unless badgering every time they try to enter a clinic. they must face regular shaving from the republicans in this committee. yet there are no such restrictions were acquiring a gun. and with no history of domestic violence and imagine the invasive questions about why are you getting the gun and whether or not you considered all of your options.
and so think about the images of gun violence as you walk into a gun shop. that outrage you feel, the nagging feeling that they have no right to your constitutional right. and about whether or not to access the constitutional rights. until this committee is ready to face this, to take a firm stance that enough is enough and it's time for reelection, these proceedings are going to her main. are you aware that they obtained this nonprofit status from the irs in the environmental research and is this illegal to provide this information to the irs?
>> they did make that application and i do believe that it is fraudulent and illegal. >> my last question is that at the moment we are investigating planned parenthood. the majority proposes taxpayer dollars to establish a select panel. and almost none to investigate activity for the center for american progress. >> i think that it indicates that the true agenda is to undermine women's rights to make personal decisions and consultations with doctors and family and exercise the constitutional rights to choose health care. >> thank you very much, i yield back. >> we now recognize the gentleman from i was. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think the witnesses for testimony today and just
listening to the individual from new york about the same hoops about firearms as there is abortion. probably much easier to get an abortion than it is to buy a gun or possess one or transport one. we have seen a lot of death and desecration and i'm looking through your testimony and i'm noticing their that you list the numbers of life-saving breast exams and those whose exams were detected early, cancer that was detected early. and it also had prevented an estimated 516,000 unintended pregnancies and 200,000
abortions every year and i have not seen planned parenthood produce a number that had actually took credit for the number of abortions prevented and neither did i see the number of abortions that planned parenthood does in a normal year. can you tell me what that number would be? >> i believe that number is about 350,000 per year's battle >> over the typical price before a typical abortion? >> i do not know, i do not work for planned parenthood. >> and i stayed $1500 and when i put that through my calculator it was her hundred 40,000 that was the number that i used and at $1500 each that turned out to be $510 million. that happens to be very close to the identical of the exact
numbers should the appropriations go forward which it has out of this house for a couple of months and it's hard for me to accept the idea that this is a nonprofit organization and your testimony spoke to that. seeing those kinds of numbers, could you be convinced that planned parenthood is nonprofit? >> officially they are a nonprofit, but the main concern is really the bottom line. we would have monthly managers meetings via the webcam system to do the abortions and on a spreadsheet they would have the goals and quotas for every single service and supply but we had. we met our goal it would be green, if not it would be yellow
and a 10% below the quota it would be rad and we would have to have a corrective action plan on how to correct that. abortion was one of those items. if we didn't do it at that center we had a goal for referrals you can you say clearly in your testimony with confidence, and your years working for planned parenthood even though they were found as a nonprofit that they are profit driven? >> they're all about the profit. >> they purchase this for $2.88 per cycle. reimbursed a little over $26,000 and then they solicit from the women that were referred to end a 10-dollar donation per cycle for each cycle pills that goes
out. >> i would like to return again in a colander testimony, you talked about the gap that would be created if we didn't fund planned parenthood. would you say that there is no way to fill the gap and there is not a way to fill that gap some other way? >> we have evidence that it is nearly impossible. from texas and even louisiana and found that they could not serve the population that needed those services. >> tell me if you would how did they roll into this service and into this gap that cannot be created another way. are you submitting the funding and resources that would not grow another entity that would fill the same demands that they
can only fill? and what the thing would happen? >> unfortunately i think that we would have more unintended pregnancy and unfortunately more abortions. >> i just don't think that the witness has talked about how free enterprise moves and how the clinic system works and how health care providers are able to take a look at the marketplace and supply the demand and i suggested that would be supplied without any great concern. >> i recognize myself or five minutes for questions. >> let me thank you very much.
let me also say that this is a judiciary committee and we have the current stated statutory court law i respect and appreciate the differences of opinion and i'm interested in the truth. but i am one that has known people and has lived through this, the back alley abortions, seeing people suffer and die because of choices that they intend intelligently wanted to make. and did not have the adequate
medical care consultation that was needed. and i want to thank you for recognizing the need for good care and taking the oath. i understand you are under oath, i understand that the video was a planned parenthood video enact. >> no, ma'am, i am not. the reason i brought that forward. >> so that is not a planned parenthood video? >> now. i want to make clear that the hearing is examining procedures at the nation's largest abortion provider. [inaudible] >> are you a lawyer? >> no, ma'am. >> are you talking about the nonprofit law? >> now.
>> welcome i ran a nonprofit -- >> are you a lawyer that understands the law? >> no, but i did have an understanding. >> the appropriate response for federal funding, health care matters and not from a legal perspective. >> one of my biggest concerns is why they were soliciting donations and requiring donations from medicaid eligible women. >> is that something that you are submitting into the record. >> i do that everyday that i worked there. >> were you able to discern. [inaudible] >> they have every right -- i'm
not saying that it is true, let me move into a voluntary request, someone that has a desire to do. let me set the tone for this particular hearing. and it has been said by the chairman here that planned parenthood, if i might quote correctly, is this the law of the land? [inaudible] >> just. >> it is no pronouncement that we are promoting abortions, is that the case? >> women have the right to make those choices. >> is a right to privacy under the amendment.
>> just. >> many of you have seen and i would like to focus, do they do legitimately have care for women? >> they are the nations leading provider of reproductive health care for women providing a critical service. one in five go to a planned parenthood clinic in their life. >> as i understand it, medical training, and continuing education, studies show that 57,000 obstetricians out of college maintain the highest standards of that this is misinformation about how they handled this.
>> yes, i understand. before roe versus wade is a tremendous advance to have safe and legal abortions available for women. >> let me add the fourth amendment to that line of reasoning as well. on this video, are you familiar with the name? >> he has not publicly relieved this unedited video. [inaudible] do you also understand that he
had an individual. [inaudible] >> just come i understand that is the case. >> i thank you, mr. chairman. if you are here to define the facts, is is not factual that all of the hearings we have not heard about planned parenthood in essence to violating the law, have you heard that? >> no, no one has been able to substantiate any wrongdoing and indeed mr. chaffetz has agreed that there is no wrongdoing. >> the gentlelady's time has expired. >> i would like to know what the proper procedure would be.
[inaudible] >> the nation's largest abortion provider. they have now admitted under oath was not prepared in connection with planned parenthood at all. >> the gentleman had never had suggested that. >> it was presented to having a hearing on planned parenthood. i make a motion to strike it from the record. >> would you also include the gentleman from new york's testimony? >> my motion is on the recording that he admitted that he had nothing to do with land parented. >> he made his motion and comments about guns almost entirely. >> i would ask for a vote on this request.
>> the motion is to strike from the record the video of the doctor that was not prepared for generating in connection for this. >> unanimous consent to enter this. >> that is not correct. >> all of those in favor say aye and all of those opposed say no. >> i wonder if we will be able to strike that video. >> we ought to have some relevance, which has nothing to do with the subject matter at
chair. to report the vote. the chairman can consider that. chairman i just wanted to ask if this was a motion to strike testimony of the witness or a video and if we had such a motion because i don't recall ever having one striking testimony of witnesses. >> as i understand mr. forbes the minority is asking to strike the video which of course was given to them days ago. it's not a surprise to them in anyway. is that correct? >> it was given to them yesterday morning. >> regular order. can we have the vote results? >> chairman this is regular order. i will wait until it's quiet and then i will state my parliamentary procedure once they have gotten quiet. mr. chairman have we had a
procedure before under our parliamentary rules to strike evidence of a witness because i don't ever remember one taking place. >> i am told not in this committee. >> okay. >> please announce the vote. >> mr. chairman. >> mr. chabot's. >> mr. chabot votes no. >> seven members voted no. the motion is agreed to. >> i will recognize myself for five minutes for questions. you know one of the hallmarks of
humanity throughout history is our astonishing proclivity as human beings to obscure or rationalize the incontrovertible truth. and our own minds before others to achieve some solidarity or temporary acceptance with their own insular. grew. it is size astonished me to what lengths we go on this issue and i think i know why. because we never really ask the central question. the central question is, does the portion kill a little baby? if abortion doesn't kill a little baby then i'm here to pretty much suggest that we shouldn't be having such a hearing and if you would -- but if abortion does kill a little baby than those of those seated in the greatest nation in the history of the world, the land
of the three in the home of the brave are sitting in the midst of the greatest human genocide in the history of humanity and the victims are the most helpless of all children. we recently had a float in the house of representatives to protect born alive children. there was not one person to my left that voted for that bill. born alive children. i would just suggest that if we come to the moment in america where we no longer are willing to protect born alive children, then it is time to reassess who we are and whether or not the founding fathers dream has been placed in our society. if a child is born alive during
an abortion procedure that doctor has an ethical duty to say that child, correct? >> he does. he is an ethical duty to provide care whether it's lifesaving or palliative. >> the present of planned parenthood cecil richards has said in testimony that she had never heard of such a circumstance happening in planned parenthood clinics. do you believe that among the hundreds of thousands of abortions planned parenthood provides every year that there are children born alive but died because they do not receive appropriate care? >> i can't speak specifically from experience regarding planned parenthood in that regard. the reason i at a deuce the video was because planned parenthood has stated and we understand that they do perform late-term abortions. i believe ms. richards stated they provide late term abortions up to -- you need to know the techniques are and that's why introduced the testimony that i
did. >> based on your experience what is your assessment of how low income women's health care could be met without planned parenthood? >> with all do respect to ms. fredrickson her assertion and backing it up with statements from other people that it is quote ludicrous were her words that other providers could adequately take on planned parenthood patients the statement itself is ludicrous. it's interesting, if you want to learn about low-income women and health care you should come to southern new mexico where i have worked for over 13 years. the planned parenthood facilities in new mexico are in albuquerque, santa fe and farmington, the three richest areas in the state. there is no single planned parenthood south of lynn county in new mexico and there hasn't
been for over a decade. the very area that i work create the county that i work as one of the poorest counties in the country and if you want to understand indigent care and come to the county police. ms. richardson's talk specifically about the health care that planned parenthood provides, specifically family planning counseling and contraception, pregnancy tests, pap smears, exams and std testin in her testimony but was in her written testimony. those are the services they provide. let me tell you something the poor people in my area gets contraceptive counseling pap smears exams and truly comprehensive health care from our health care clinics. you have heard, this committee has heard by now that they're over 16,000 health care clinics across the country. look at my map again. this is covering in new mexico in terms of those same health
clinics and unlike planned parenthood they are not a 9-5 business monday through friday. there are there are 24 hours a day deserve their women and their women get taken care of not only if they need pap smears her breast exams, they get taken care but they have a headache or nausea or a stroke or heart attack or all the other things would happen. as we called comprehensive health care and that is what is available in these clinics. $500 million as a doctor i would give you my opinion, $500 million in planned parenthood would far better serve those women across the country would be far better served had that money put into community health centers where women could get truly comprehensive care. not just pap smears and breast exams. >> i thank the gentleman. i know recognize i believe mr. cohen from tennessee for five minutes. >> thank you.
>> ms. lofgren. >> thank you mr. chairman. this hearing is disappointing in so many ways, it's really hard to begin. but let me just say it is a myth to think that if we were able to defund planned parenthood which i don't think legally be good to , that there is the capacity to provide the medical services to women who are being served. the last time that we had a hearing in this committee on the same subject i put a letter into the record at that hearing from the california nonprofit clinic saying they do not have the capacity to pick up the caseload of planned parenthood, just flat out could not do it. there has been a lot of discussion about abortion here today. abortion is a very emotional subject for people in this country and i think that is why
we have ended up in the situation we have, which is there is no federal funding for abortion. no federal funding for abortion and so the effort to cut off funding for planned parenthood would exceed we would cut off contraception but we would not cut off abortion which is an absurd result i might say. i have known women who have had worsened and i've never met a woman who felt happy about it. it's a situation where women find themselves when they make a choice instead of the government telling them what to do. i think of the daughter-in-law of a dear friend of mine who had an abortion late in her pregnancy when she found out that the much wanted child she
was carrying had all of her brains had formed outside of the dash and her child was not going to live. she and her husband were devastated that she was told by her physician that if she carried this child to term not only with the child died that she might die. certainly she would never have the chance of having another child. we think about the women all over the country who struggled with this decision and make a decision but one of the important things is to provide the contraception so that women don't have to be faced with that terrible decision. i do think that one of the most important things that planned parenthood does is to provide her control to women who want to control their own fertility. if we were to cut off funding for planned parenthood that would not be available to the
women, many women who live in my community of san jose. that would just not be available and i think that would be a very wrong thing. now i think there has been a lot of dirt in the air about the planned parenthood as an institution. i will just say that planned parenthood in san jose is a well-respected organization. i know thousands of women who have told me how much they rely on planned parenthood not only for pap smears and for birth control and for cancer screenings but they even do some pediatric care. there are full service and it's really important institution and a well trusted institution in my district and that's what i hear from families and from women back home. this is in contrast to some of the things that have been said here in washington. earlier in the oversight and
government reform committee there was a chart indicating that planned parenthood performed more abortions than lifesaving procedures and 2013. i wonder ms. fredrickson did you look at that chart? did you see the hearing? >> i haven't seen that chart. >> i don't think that's an accurate chart and i think it's since been proven that is not correct. let me ask you about the effort all these hearings about planned parenthood and there's not been any evidence that planned parenthood has violated the law in any way. are you aware of any hearings that tell about the cmp group but that they filed false tax returns or whether they were operating in compliance with the law? >> so far i don't think there have been any. there were case proceedings however. i know our attorney general in
california is looking into it since they incorporated there. i will just close mr. chairman by saying i hope that this is the end of the persecution of planned parenthood. it's important the service they provide to women of america and i hope we will stop trying to smear this wonderful institution and i yield back. >> the gentleman from virginia mr. forbes. >> i make a motion that the testimony that was stricken from the record be part -- be made part of the record. snack all those in favor of a motion respond by say aye. those opposed, no.
the ayes have it and the video is made of part of the record. i think the gentleman and the gentleman is now recognized for his question. >> the gentlewoman from california ms. walters is recognized for five minutes. you are next. do you want to pass? the gentleman from ohio mr. chavez is recognized for a question. >> thank you mr. chairman. i want to thank you for all that is hearing in the gentlelady from california i have great respect for indicated these hearings are disappointing and it is certainly disappointing that we have to hold a hearing like this about an organization
that every year brutally kills hundreds of thousands of unborn innocent babies and sells their body parts and does it for-profit. i happen to represent most of the city of cincinnati and planned parenthood does approximately 330,000 abortions. it's the largest abortion provider in this country. basically wipes out the city of cincinnati every year. it's about 300,000 people in that particular community and so it is very disappointing we have to have a hearing like this to year the testimony and ms. fredrickson you earlier said in your comment about mr. chaffetz saying something along the lines that while it isn't against the law, and if that's the case the organization
that you are here tested my -- testifying on their behalf today if it's accurate that what you are doing destroying innocent unborn lives and selling their body parts for-profit. if that's not against the law then we better change the law and make it against the law because we are supposed to be a civilized society in a civilized country and to think that kind of behavior is occurring in these modern times, it makes one wonder what the hell is going on in this country. it's disgusting and when i saw these videos and i know the excuses well we didn't know we were being taped. what a defense. we didn't know that somebody might actually find out what's going on and planned parenthood facilities all over the country. that might get out, what's going
on. that's a heck of a defense and some of the people that are here and all. the other witnesses in particular i think it takes a lot of courage to have experienced some of the things that you have experienced over the years and to be willing to come here and testify about what has happened and thank god that you are willing to do that. all three stories and dr. levatino i heard you testify in the committee in the past and thank you for coming forward and doing what you are doing now to expose what has occurred. i have probably used up a lot of my time already but doctor if you could again, and i know you have already said it that i think it airs hearing at a second time. in your past obviously you did perform abortions and at some point in your life decided i'm
not going to do that anymore. could you share again why it was that made that change for you? >> congressman it was the loss of my own adopted daughter that made me look seriously at what i was doing with abortions. >> ms. stoltenberg you indicated that you, and i know we have a whole bunch of other women that were in your circumstances, that their lives have been changed. would you want to share some of the stories of other women? you don't necessarily have to give their names but what you have heard from others and how this has affected their lives and there are actually two victims. there is the unborn child and also the woman who has been the victim oftentimes in the planned parenthood facilities, the largest abortion provider.
could you share in the brief time i have left anything that the women have said that you have talked over the years. >> all of these women's stories refute a safe abortion. we are not having safe abortion in this country. women are being maimed. they are being harmed. they're not able to have their own children because of it. their children are dying on the table. they are turning to alcohol and drugs and suicide. i just counsel that woman in the prior month that had tried to kill herself three different times and almost succeeded. why are we talking about why -- this is not safe. there would be more up your women were not too ashamed and too afraid to come out and talk about this.
sometimes it doesn't happen for years. i wasn't able to talk about this for five years. their women that won't be able to talk about it for 10 and 20 years and i have heard multiple stories, hundreds of how they have been maimed and wounded in every way. i can't -- it was hard for me me to bond with my own child that i adopted because of this procedure. i'm just begging for you people to protect women. this is not a good choice for women. protect us. do the right thing. instead of looking at pocketbooks. i would like to ask the committee how many people are receiving donations from planned parenthood on their campaigns and that saddens my heart because would you choose that over protecting women? >> thank you very much. i yield back my time.
>> the gentleman from tennessee mr. cohen is recognized. >> mr. franks made a comment about a bill that was on the floor three or four weeks ago. born alive children bill. on the same day there was another bill on the floor to fund planned parenthood. and nobody on this site voted for it. he's right and they didn't come to the subcommittee and they didn't go to the full committee for a markup or for a hearing because regular order does not apply because the pope is going to be here and we wanted to put the focus on this issue because it was politics. we are supposed to go to committee for hearings like we are having today and if there is a bill, there's no bill here, the sisters show business hearing than they're supposed to be a markup. there was none of that. went straight before -- no amendments allowed in rules committee.
just like benghazi was politics and kevin mccarthy told he was politics it accomplished its purpose of hurting a woman who will lead this democratic party. >> will the gentleman yield? >> no i won't and they admitted that this is what they were doing in this planned parenthood is the same deal. they are having a special committee they have now set up and yet representative chaffetz said there's not any evidence that there has been any law violated and there isn't. let me ask dr. levatino. you admitted that your video had nothing to do, nothing to do with planned parenthood, correct? >> the video that was shown was not shot at planned parenthood said that relevant procedures. >> don't tell me about relevance it has nothing to do with planned parenthood. >> video was not shot a plant parents did. >> did you ever worked for planned parenthood?
>> when i was a resident. not in private practice. >> you did spent eight years working at planned parenthood. this is talking about medical ethics examining medical procedures and ethics. anyone know one person that lost their medical license because the activity of planned parenthood? ms. stoltenberg you know anyone who has lost their medical license? ms. thayer? dr. levatino do you know anyone who's who has lost their medical license? >> i do not. >> second question, i don't have your name right. >> stoltenberg. >> and i'm sorry for the problems you've had in your history. your first abortion was at planned parenthood. where was your second abortion clinics and where was your third abortion? >> i believe it was at emma
goldman. >> emma goldman is not planned parenthood. >> they do a lot of the same procedures. >> a lot of places do the same procedure but this hearing is about planned parenthood so your second and third abortions had nothing to do with planned parenthood. you have a -- what's the name of your not-for-profit? >> cornerstone for life. >> do you draw salary they are? >> i get a stipend. >> how much is a five and? >> about the dollars a month. >> you are considered a christian speaker. do you get paid to get the speeches are just expenses? >> usually i don't get paid at all. i'm not being paid to be here. >> i know that. i don't think any of us get paid too much. the fact is that hearing just like the nazi, it's just like the committee on planned parenthood, its politics and yet we have got major problems going on in this country. the whole idea that this is
about planned parenthood is wrong. and dr. levatino has admitted medical ethics, there is no evidence of impropriety about planned parenthood only a title that's been put up your and ms. stoltenberg has one third of her history at planne parenthood. it's unfortunate that this is the way we are spending our time. it's really unfortunate and i appreciate planned parenthood for what they do for lower income women, or women who need health services, who need family-planning, who need cancer exams, cervical and etc. performed by planned parenthood and i'm happy that medicaid reimburses them and that's good and i yield back the balance of my time. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from ut mr. chaffetz for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman i would caution members, i've heard my name several times and members please be careful using this.
the context of the comments that i made were in relationship to a hearing is the chairman of the oversight committee that i conduct. the hearing that we conducted in oversight was about the finances of planned parenthood. we didn't get into the content of what they do. we didn't get into the content of video. we didn't get into the practices that they do. we didn't get into the fetal body tissue issue. we didn't do that. we were very narrowly focused on the finances. point we were making is that planned parenthood had revenue of $127 million with expenses. we started to work as a nonprofit organization on what people making and how they were spending that money. they were giving it to political organization and having a lot of shared services. i think that's a legitimate question as we look at the finances from an