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tv   Book Discussion on Disaster Capitalism  CSPAN  November 14, 2015 7:30pm-8:47pm EST

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this generation pioneering a version of community that is on full display for community, in fact rick quires the innovation of the community prior to coming home. there are no four walls for this. it happens all over. a deeper community and a need for community is similar for both. >> obvious differences for generational volunteers and draftees they had a vietnam although there are many volunteers in that generation as well. the main difference is the american people. i was a navy brat go growing up, in this country and this city, they would not wear their
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uniform. today it's a completely different you get discounts and people recognize you, i am grateful for that. >> i like to thank all of you for coming out especially again and all of our sponsors. when people asked me why write a book about veterans and why write another sob story about veterans, but the message of this book is the exact opposite. the message of this book is optimism about our future. the message is about the importance of service in a democracy. it is something of a message that i hope gets out there and i
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hope each of you at some point can experience what i have experienced. going out and cleaning the school in brooklyn or helping after a tornado in oklahoma, it really makes your heart sing. thank you so much for coming. [applause]. [inaudible] [inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation] [inaudible]
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>> i have a picture up on the wall, one. >> [inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation]
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[inaudible conversation] i love the discussion, i thought it was great. >> thank you. [inaudible conversation]
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[inaudible conversation] >> here's a look at what is on prime time tonight. at 7:30 p.m. eastern anthony lowenstein takes a look at companies that make money off of natural and man-made disasters around the world. at nine, rita davis talks about the recent discovery of her maternal grandfather's involvement in involvement in the gestapo. in lithuania from 1941 until 1943. at 10:00 p.m. eastern book tv author interview program, former interview program, former congressman patrick kennedy discusses mental health and addiction with congressman jim
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mcdermott. at 11:00 p.m. a conversation with george w. bush and biographer john beauchamp about the life and political career of america's 41st president, george hw bush. that happens next. first up on book to be in prime time here is anthony lowenstein. >> hi everyone, good evening. welcome to the bookstore café, my name is molly i am the director of public programming at the bookstore. welcome, welcome to tonight's program. we are excited to have you here. can i get a round of applause from anyone who has never been in this bookstore before. [applause]. awesome. welcome. that gives me the opportunity to take this moment to tell you about the bookstore and the things we do here.
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housing works as a healing community of people living with and affected by hiv and aids. our mission is to end the dual crises of homelessness and aids. the the relentless advocacy, life-giving services and entrepreneurial services and businesses who sustain those efforts. that is what that bookstore is in addition to all of our scripts you may have seen around the city. that means everything you see here the store, all the books and dvds are donated to us. our team team of booksellers and bartenders, baristas are made up of volunteers. all of the money we raise in the store goes directly to job training, advocacy, housing, healthcare, and other services for homeless and formally homeless new yorkers living with hiv and aids. we are one of the largest eight service in the world and every event is a key part of the fund-raising for that event. we are grateful for all the
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people and organizations that participate in our event program. tonight we make special thanks who made this event possible by donating books to us which are for sale to my left. you can get a book and purchase it at the register. we also have some free wine and free beer which is really awesome. the way that works is they give us books and they buy from our café so you get to buy books then you get free beer and we get to fund raise which is really amazing. we encourage you to buy books tonight, enjoy free beer and after that purchase a second drink and by million books here tonight which is important part of our fundraising. you can also help out by volunteering your time, donating your stuff, hosting a bout with us by renting out our space for private function. have been for weddings and
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private parties, so if you are in the market for a wedding or meet someone cute tonight come get my card for the show. you can stand touch by subscribing to our newsletter which comes twice a month and it's full of free readings, concerts, parties and free events like this one. we have a busy following encourage you to come back and see us. you can tweeter instagram we are housing a word books and you can find a calendar on housing without further ado will start the show. we have two, intelligent and amazing judgment tonight. they will come up and will have a short video. they will talk in the will open up questions to the audience.
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the microphone i am talking in is the microphone you can ask a question. once once we get to that portion just remember where i am to ask a question. first i will introduce our moderator. jeremy is in the best guidry porter and author of the international best-selling book, dirty wars, the world, the battlefield and blackwater. the rise of the most powerful missionary army. he served missionary army. he served as national security of the nation and democracy he was has received many awards and was nominated for an academy award. anthony lowenstein is an independent australian journalist documentary maker, and blogger. his the columnist and author three best-selling books, my israel question, and to others.
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his new book, disaster capitalism making a killing out of catastrophe. his co- editor and cowriter for god's face. his books have been translated in many global awards. he is working on a documentary about disaster capitalism. here they are. [applause]. thank you all for coming. we are going to show a short clip. i've been working on the film for about four years with new york filmmaker who sitting over there. the film is about afghanistan. it tells us stories about individual characters in the country who are fighting back in challenging. it is 90% shot, we have have
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been to haiti, afghanistan and new guinea twice. we are currently raising money to finish it and do a rough cut. here's the short clip of the film in progress. thank you. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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♪ [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible]
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[inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [applause]. >> i know how difficult it is to raise funds for journalism projects that are not going to be profitable. one of the things that has
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always struck me about anthony's work is that he is a quintessential underdog journalist and set out to do a documentary with a global focus that tells history from the perspective of those were being targeted rather than doing the targeting and it is not going to make a lot of friends or money. i think if we lose the institution of independent filmmaking, independent journalism that is motivated by nonprofits but the desire to tell the history from the perspective of those who are victims of it, then we have a totally bankrupt society when it comes to open media and media freedom. i hope and i believe that this documentary will see the light of day. >> it will, it is coming.
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>> i know it will. it is interesting because you could bring this dvd in your backpack and stream and around the country and around the world, but because of the level of detail in the way you are producing it i really believe it deserves a much wider viewing. if there's anyone in the audience that can spare 10,000 dollars. >> or 100,000 dollars, or thousand dollars, or $500,000. >> you should definitely approach us. anthony is a friend of mine and i have done events with him in his native australia and now we are flipping it around and i'm hanging with him here. most of the way i know anthony is through his journalism. i think it that's true opposite that he knows me through my journalism. i think there is a very small
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group, a very small tribe of journalists from around the world who are impacted and molded by the anticorporate uprising of the mid to late 1990s that were fueled and embraced by sectors of activists in the global north. then, further further had their outlook of the world -shaped by the post- 911 reality, where you had a cartoonish set of villains and power in the united states within bush and cheney. you had free market capitalism being openly defended or offended by the militarism around the globe.
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there is a small circle of journalists, globally, that have made it their business to expose the machinery of the connection between war and corporate interest. anthony's journalism may not be well-known in the united states, but for people who are really interested in investigating the global impact of economic liberalism and western militarism or imperialism, anthony is it incredible voice in that story. i have many things i want to ask anthony about and people should think about questions you want to ask him. i want to start with the situation of refugees who are fleeing syria, iraq, and elsewhere and migrating towards various european countries. you said something earlier to me
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before we started the event that i thought was really fascinating and underreported story. that is, is, you talked about the parra militarization response and to refugees in europe. maybe you can give a overview of that and explain what you meant by that. >> one of the things that is arguably the greatest story of our time is the fact that there are much more refugees looking for asylum, safety, then the second world war. the un has recently a 50 or 60,000,000 million people who are looking for safety. one of the things less talked about is the reality of what is happening, and i talk about greece but much of what the european union is doing in the money they are spending is not about helping refugees per se, it's about surveillance,
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monitoring, and policing. some of the money that is recently allowed to be given to greece under the austerity packages had to be spent on surveillance. has to be spent on monitoring and surveilling refugees. so when the great power could arguably and completely devastating, the result was they also accepted a pass for privatization of their social services. the reality is too surveilled. that means leasing out israeli drones to monitor refugees. a range of other things like that. >> did they actually do that. >> many european countries have as well. israel will lease out drones, it is a thing. rather than buying it you can get airtime so to speak.
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something interesting about that apart from being disturbing, as you have a massive industry that is happy about the fact there are now refugees from the middle east to europe putting aside the u.s. or elsewhere. the question about that is, whether it's immigrants from the souther refugees, this is massive big business. it's not just a question of helping people stay alive. that's how we would see it, how can we help people be treated better. it's a huge business opportunity. one of the things about writing about is actually understanding why this has become such big business in which companies are involved. and greece is one of those, italy as well, ultimately what the refugee crisis is about how the european union based and
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what that future of the european union is. for years, many of the left side europe as the ultimate unified dream. that is over. i'm not saying it will collapse tomorrow, it will not but there is profound disk wire on the left and the right for different reasons including the u.k. and staying what are we signed up for? what is the deal? what are we agreeing to? are we looking at greece as an example that is completely devastated by years of austerity that will only get worse or are we looking at something which is more democratic. in the eu it is inherently undemocratic and so that's why they're questioning what the future is. >> it is interesting, your characterization and the reason i think is initially there was a lot of hope and a lot of
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optimism. i want to talk about jeremy corbin and britain down the line but you just said the austerity was going to get worse under -- explained that. so they pretrade that self as an west wing anti- austerity, push back against the right-wing policies in germany. the nato infrastructure, that is a public betrayal. you now quickly moved on and said these guys are total part of the problem in fact they'll make it work. >> so they won the election in january and in september just recently. the reason i said there is a massive capitulation -- love
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twitter and spent a lot of time in australia over the years. one of the reasons he left the government was, he knew teresa was going going to capitulate in a strong way. if there is a gun to greece his head and there is not the political will and greece should have made a decision to leave the european union. if grayson would've left the entire economy would have collapsed in a far more egregious way. that was too far to go and i think what is likely to be worst is it is more privatization of private and indeed health care and some greater reliance on monitoring and surveilling
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refugees which is one of the areas less talked about increase. the reason that is a problem is having spent time in greece, people seeing these devastating personal effects and spent their lives as middle-class people and they really want to just give their children lunch. that is the reality and greece today. but in greece, it is devastating reality and the effect of that is you now have, in europe, in europe and in greece, a far right, near nazi in parliament. it is the third-largest parliament party in the parliament. their support is growing not decreasing. the surge of a far right
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militancy and europe is only going to get worse. unfortunately to me, me, and undemocratic european union that encourages policies that make european citizen such as greece do not feel like they are independent. they say they're not an independent country anymore. it is not made in athens, it is made elsewhere, the effect of that is people are more likely to latch onto simplistic far right ideas which is, ironically they do not have solutions to anything it's too have refugees in the street. there's an environment in greece that years the police and military were in on that. just a finish on that point, the concern they now face as there are imposing what they fundamentally oppose and the challenge for major left party that came into power pledging to change economic environment.
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the real deep reasons for that we don't actually know the conversations that are happening in the room between eu increase. we have a bit of an idea. that is a problem. >> i have two prong follow up on this. on one hand i'm curious to your thoughts about why they've stake out the position they have. on one hand she is trying to appear as though, she is taking selby's with self is with refugees and appear as though they want germany to be this safe territory for refugees and i'm curious what your analysis of her position and the u.k. position is on refugees? to respond directly to something you said about fashion's, neo-nazi type party rising, i spent, i spent a lot of time in former yugoslavia.
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what is interesting is that in central, southern, eastern europe, and a lot of countries you have dueling banjos the plane for power. on one hand you have the failed liberal experiments when the u.s. supported color revolutions in all these things. and then you have a red, brown, brown coalition we have remnants of former authoritarian governments teaming up with neofascist, pseudo-nationalist entities. croatia now the president of croatia is a borderline fascist who is straight out of some sort of bizarre textbook and you sought in poland and other countries where there was a rejection of policies and then an embrace of pseudo- national national policies. on both of those sides of the
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scale you have merkel trying to show that she's with the refugees and on the other hand you have these are remnants teaming up with fascists. >> ..
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also in germany a growing neo-nazi movement, which has always been there, but there are regular pretty much every week. fire bombings of refugee homes and centers. this is a growing threat. trying to be a fear monger but this is a problem, and going to take 800,000 refugees this year from syria, and it have the happens, that's welcome, if it happens, but she is -- this is not to excuse her behavior but she is a lot of things she is juggling, is the short answer. but economically and financially, a number of ministers have said when they're in negotiations with the germans, essentially they were told you have no choice. there's nothing to negotiate. you may have been elected on the
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antiausterity platform. we don't care. we're making the rules. we have the money. capitulate or not. they could have said, screw you we're going on our own or leave the eu but there's a profound fear to do so. i think the alliances with fascism, outside europe, a weird sense we don't understand what that means. in my country, in the u.s., obviously far right elements that exist, but rarely that i can think of in the mainstream. europe has echos, in some ways far more than the u.s., there is fascism in the u.s. as well, but in the fear is the failure of the major left part to implement a strong antiausterity policy
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makes it far more difficult for other left parties to go forward. britain north actually in power yet the problem is that much of the left, certainly in greece, is demoralized beyond belief. >> just to put into context for people, jeremy corbyn, rises to become head of the labor party. i know jeremy corbin, if a dawn lot of antiwar events with him. he is a very controversial figure, but in my view for lot of the right reasons itch first came into contact with him when i was working at democracy now, as a rookie subproducer. we would interview him about the north ireland and other issues, very controversial, very clear-headed guy, and a militant leftist, the equivalent of madea benjamin ending up as the head of the dnc in america.
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>> or president. >> not president. jeremy corbin is probably not going to become prime minister, but to my mind one of the rare epic successes of actual left movement to articulate they're ideas, have happen hurt under duress, corbin was under fire even from "the guardian" which waged a war against him. but corbin managed to do is incredible. it was an enormous fuck you to tony blair and margaret thatcher. thatcher bragged about one of her greatest achievements during her time was providing the space for new labor to rise, and in europe, which was the equivalent of our bill clinton'm era. constanted the republican agenda and then became ale bell lidge
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ran hawk. and this is a moment with jeremy cor bin at the head of the labor party, and yet there's this war against him from even "the guardian. ." >> i think corbyn is fascinating. only been in that position for one week and one doesn't want to presume too much but his leadership but what he is actually advocating, nationalizing thing that provide advertized, boycotts of sanctions against sailor. supports never using nuclear weapons, which is a nice relief, but a conservatives, that's always an option. he has a fundamental opposition to pretty much any foreign wars. things that actually -- views that actually are markly mainstream. these are mainstream views that are unacceptable to --
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>> that's what was kind of amazing, corbyn and his allies made an argument, not in the media or through official channels. they showed there is an energized electorate that was inspired by the ideas. it wasn't about -- corbyn is a highly uninspiring individual. a monotonous speaker, not very dynamic, very principled, but the ideas resonated with a lot of young people and ordinary working class peek. >> the moment popular elected leader in british history. not prime minister but the most popular. election is five years away, there are many factors, factions within the labor party who hate his guts. is was kind of funnying -- should shay one thing about corbyn. he apologized for the iraq war,
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his party joined on tony blair, which is why tony blair should be in "the hague." blake is like a cockroach. you can't get rid of him. he will emerge as a voice of -- >> lord of humanitarianism. >> something like that. was the middle east peace envoy, and it's now a peaceful place and he has done a wonderful job. no, there's a real sense about what -- i talk about nice in relation to refugees. immigration detention camps which the labor part and the toriis both agreed on, and the companies running the centers are the same ones rubbing them in my country, australia. a company known ever heard of, britain's largest provider of detention centers. and i spend some time in those
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camps camps camps and the conditions are all, healthcare is atrocious, and the guards are not given much training, and that's a key point. the reason for privatizing the centers is saying you're going to cut costs at all levels, that mean the guards shouldn't get training. there are going to be centers, that's part of the problem. so corbyn has a massive struggle on his hand. not going to revolutionize britain in five. >> hopefully he doesn't capitulating so quickly. >> we're reaching the halfway point. when you buy anthony's book, it is directly supporting housing works, and housing works is an incredible organization worthy of all of our support, and it's amazing to see this institution spread around new york. there's one not far from me, and
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in brooklyn, and it is such an essential part of the city right now. so, i encourage you to boy anthony's book on its merits and also know when you do it, he is nose getting royals all of it. they're not making a profit. everything goes to housing works so an extra incentive to get the book here tonight and tell your friends about it also and -- i used to work for michael moore and he said if it's happening in africa, it wasn't happening, how the u.s. media views things. either starving children or barbaric -- >> so many black people there, and they all look the same, and the media can't disrep shade
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that well. >> sudan went through an incredible process where it split essentially in two, and that got media attention. but there's something much more interesting going on in sudan when you look at western interests. and that is that you have in the east of africa, and increasingly the west and north of africa, what amounts to a proxy war between the united states and china. china was very early to get involved in sudan. at one point it controlled 40% of sudan's national petroleum organization. and the united states' presence in the east of africa is largely military. china's has been largely economic. you pointed out to me earlier tonight that china actually has troops deployed, which i didn't know.
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>> well -- >> but china has 1500 or 1200 -- >> i think it's 1200. >> -- blue helmets working under the u.n. in sudan. never heard of chinese troops being deployed that way. maybe you can walk people through. received almost no attention in this country. what is going on in east africa and sudan specific my between the u.s., china, and other world powers. >> clearly what happened particularly since 9/11 is that america has been on one level focused elsewhere, been invading iraq and afghanistan do bringing freedom everywhere. so china -- >> must not have gotten the memo. we the ended those wars. >> that's right. they're over and they were really good. more, please. i think what haley -- really has happened, with almost in media coverage, has found that our -- out of 54 african countries, 48
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or 49 have some u.s. military presence. doesn't mean there are massive numbers of armies running around the countries, but some kind of presence, training, influence, surveillance, whatever it may be, under the guise of helping struggling states to get on their feet. that is about two things. one, influence of the rice of china and resources which some countries have more than others inch sudan, south sudan, south sudan became an independent state in 2011, in the world's newest nation and there's been a civil war. no one knows how many people have dried but groups estimated up to 100,000, maybe more. it's brutal war. the rope it doesn't get much coverage for the reasons you give. some media outlets cover it but it's too easily dismissed as black africans killing each other in a civil strife. >> what do western powers and
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china want -- >> i think the main reason that the u.s. was so keen to be -- and john kerry called it the hand maiden, was a way to have a stable base in east africa against the rise of china. wasn't said to be like that, but you lad the bush administration, george w. bush, massively pushing south sudanese independence when he was in government. >> there's also a christian element. >> sudan is muslim, south sudan is christian, and the idea of supporting an evan gentlemen include based country was a nice idea. so the bush administration, and obama continued that but not quite as -- without quite as much support. the country came into fruition in 2011. china's influence before was independent and afterwardses prince my oil, and two or three are china's oil was coming from sudan, and sudden-and-easily
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framed as a muslim terrorist supporting country, some elements of truth in those comments. in the '90s it was giving protection to osama bin laden. so that put sudan in the enemy number one category. fast forward to 2015 and the oil output is virtually stopped because the war is ongoing. there's a peace treaty signed in august this year, which is pretty much not really worked. it's falling apart. and i think the thing that is really devastating about the relationship there that america is pretty much disengaged. america is involved to an extent but they are -- the great irony about america's involvement there is that they were so enthusiastic when it happened, anden we the country fell apart the interest waned. it seems that for the remainder of obama's term, south sudan will be a low level issue for the u.s. the ironis, i'm not saying
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america's engagement brings peace and democracy. far from it. but although america is critical of the regime they back, the government is a government, frankly, of thugs and war criminals that the u.s. knew about that before they backed them, and yet people like george clooney and others who are keen -- clooney doesn't say as much as he used to, but -- i don't know what he is doing, make films -- >> married to an actually very good lawyer, who often gets identified just as george clooney's wife. >> isn't that great. >> one of the main lawyers for the al jazeera's journalists. >> and also representing the deposed leader of the mull days -- the dictatorship is being represent bid tonies wife. so they like to hang around with
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thugs. >> i'm going to open it up for questions from the community that is gather erred here. so if anyone wants to start making their way there i have a couple other questions specifically to ask anthony, and then open it up for more decision itch want to talk about afghanistan you were there very recently. of course we had this hero identifying what appears to be a -- here rying, what appears to be a war crime, of the bombing of the hospital in. and a enter -- glen green walled has been covering this in a very thorough way. you had the evolving, changing, characterization from the united states about what actually happened there, and there was an attempt to blame it on afghan forces calling it in. then it was spacial operations forces. then it became the passive way -- we talk about a bomb fell on it.
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a brilliant meme floating around now of "the new york times" headline where there were things crossed out on the headline so it just said, u.s. bombs afghan hospital but there were all these other words in that. but it's a horrifying incident, and it is very difficult to accept the current -- i haven't checked the internet recently but the current version it was simply a mistake, that afghan forces called this in through u.s. special operations forces. there's a long history, as we both know, of the u.s. targeting civilian facilities going into the 18991 gulf war. there was the bombing of the shelter which killed hundreds hf iraqis. there was the bombing bombing bf pharmaceutical plant under bill clinton sudan, the bombing of the radio television in serbia. >> al jazeera bombed in iraq and
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afghanistan. >> al-jazeera's senior correspondent killed in april of 2003 in baghdad in a u.s. strike, and then a journalist killed in the shelling of the palestine hotel, then the shelling of the sheraton hotel in baghdad, where jazeera journalists were the only guests in the hotel at the time, and on and on and on. the commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan, general campbell, said in front of congress a couple of days ago that obama's plan to just keep a kind of small force based at the embassy to do counterterrorism and force protection, was not sustainable, and that it would be better to have no one there than just a thousand troops, and he is now pushing for a much more robust force. you have written about and investigated the kind of economic and civilian consequences of what the u.s. did by invading, occupying, and
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staying in afghanistan for so long. maybe you can give people a kind of analytical report back from your recent time there, and put it in the context of what we're seeing right now in the u.s. >> i was there last in may, with my film partners. we were there working on the film. the focus in this part of the film is about afghanistan resources. for those who don't know, under the ground there's an estimated possibly three to four trillion dollars of untapped resources. >> three to four trillion. >> trillion, a lot. >> about the cost of the iraq war, i think. >> yeah. and during the soviet occupation that was discovered and nothing could be done. the americans have been there since 2001. in short what we wanted to look at and what the film shows is that the afghan government, the u.s. government, wants to believe and claims that this will be a way to potentially support and fund afghanistan when the u.s. money and aid disappears or reduces.
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so we intent time in an area -- spent time in an area an hour from kabul, controlled by the taliban, and there's a mine there run by the chinese. got rights to it many years ago. remains not started. the chinese had -- various reins, buddhish real ricks which had to be removed. we spent time with locals being told on the ground their lives have been made hell. there they were being shafted massively. the reason i mission that, we spent time in the north, looking at a rail line which is bringing oil and gas in and out ofays of uzbekistan. so the reason this is relevant and important about how the economic and civilian connection is made is that the u.s. has spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in the last decade trying to
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support so they claim, mining industry there. that's supporting some indigenous organizations and it's been a complete, unmitigated disaster. the reason that's relevant and the reason we wanted to feature that in the film, is that do we actually think that a country like afghanistan, has been at war now for more than 35 years, deserves a future which is almost guaranteed to be racked with more violence if you start mining copper and other resources? and also, the complicity of u.s. corporations and the u.s. government in that process. i think one of the things that is not talked about as much as it should be is that is that our legacy the? our being the west. that most u.s. troops will come out at some point, you're right, obama may increase troop numbers. 10, 15, 20, who knows, thousand, but ultimately the afghan government is claiming and the u.s. government -- this is a
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special way and one thing in the book, i can't think of one developing country -- and i write bit this extensively -- who are massively wealthy from resources, which actually manage it well. that's because outside companies basically are screwing it up by choice and that to me says a lot about how we view our lives in the west, because so many of the so-called economic benefits we're getting from mines in pap pew pa new guinea or the -- pa pew would knew begin, helps is live our lives here but the people in those countries are being very shafted, and a place like afghanistan, it fuels insurgent general si. keep by fuels the insurgency. >> one thing i discovered when i was reporting extensively on private military companies, is that a lot of companies from south africa, the united states, britain, australia, elsewhere, have started to do deals in the
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early 2000s a where they would be paid in mineral resources. eric prince can the founder, creator, of blackwater, has a new company, frontier services group, just announced a major expansion in eastern africa, and suddennan is -- prince was one of them boom that the christian forces in south sudan were consulting with, and then there was some congressional question about it, but they're asking to be paid not in cash but in concessions from mining. and it seems like one of the threads of your reporting, whether it's in papua new guinea or afghanistan or elsewhere, is this idea of natural resource, but it's not necessarily oil. it's minerals resource, which is a very underreported aspect of motivation for war. so maybe -- and by the way, i would love to hear from other people in the audience, after anthony is done answering this question, if anyone has a
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question we can move toward an audience discussion. on this issue -- people say it's about oil. mineral wealth in the countries you have been reporting on. >> wouldn't say that, for example, the war in afghanistan is simply because of resources. likewise i've never thought the iraq war was solely about oil. i think there are many other reasons. i think oil is one of them but not the only rope. one thing that comes out very clearly is that we in the west ex-thus particularly, the u.k. and many european countries made a choice to make various countries reliant on us, papua new guinea, haiti, afghanistan, they're independent on paper but they're not independent in reality at all. either economically or certainly not socially. so, it seems to me there is a real need for -- one thing we tried to talk about in the film in relation to aid and development, the privatized nature of that's -- how much do
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we know where our aid money is going, where the money that many of us might give to a charity actually is going, and it's amazing how there are remarkable ngo's doing work but often -- let finish on this opinion -- read arenite report about the american red cross in haiti. the american red cross after to the 2010 earthquake but out an appeal and got billions of dollars. it emerged the american red cross has nobody on the ground haiti when they asked for the money, built of a problem. nothing has been created by the money. no houses. in other words, an organization which apparently is beyond reproach, although as many people in new york will know the american red cross failed miserably after hurricane sandy. so, to me it's about asking the questions about saying, too often i think we view an ngo, and maybe own the left at least, as benign, and ultimately there are lot of questions about
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ngos that are for profit. a lot of them are for profit. they like to call themes an ng expo when the hate can i earthquake happened, the u.s. ambassador -- wikileakss documents show -- the essential nature of wikileaks, he called it's gold rush, and the gold wish was going to be massive business contracts to make a fortune. that's the way a disaster is viewed. it's frow money, not threw helping the haitian people. >> in kenya, when is was reporting on somalia, the entire somalia industrial complex is based in kenya where all these ng os and u.n., government entities, nannies, huge houses, none of them ever have to set foot in somalia, and yet they're making -- getting crisis pay and all this stuff. luckily we have bill clinton to save haiti. >> and hillary and now chelsea as well. let's open it up again. >> hi. when you talk about sudan -- and
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competition for war, isn't suddennan the biggest foundation of -- to strategically important for ice cream makers, ben and jerry. it makes a lot of profit for coca-cola. >> i haven't reported on that. i don't know is the short, honest once. it's interesting, i guess all could i say is this -- i've not been to sudan, but what is interesting is that sudan traditionally had been alied with iran for many years, and more recently suddennan made a decision to ally itself with saudi and support the bombing of yemen and that's an interesting pivot they -- for of what reason, chosen to change their a lee january which is pissing off
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iran. >> your say the gum industry. >> needed for mixing water and sugar. >> hmm, that's interesting. >> don't know about that. >> i don't know. i'm sorry, don't know. >> nice to meet you guys. i hope one day to have some slight amount of success you guys have. i travel with -- -- again, exotic jewish $10 web site can not going to see much there my question is that -- i find a hard time -- even though i really -- the movie "dirty wars" hard to say i enjoyed the movie but got a lot out of it and i agree with most of what you same. but seems to be preaching to the choir and the certitude you have on the subject chew don't have in your private lives, for example, sack ea different point of view, which i already hear
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the tilters of rafter -- laughter -- that perhaps the refugee crisis is something that is happening to the people who are perhaps lower middle class in europe -- the united, in thd states, and it's taking away jobs from them, causing their lives to be further impoverished. not decreasing anything from the lives of the well to do, the live's the elite, but is costing a lot from those at the lower enover the spectrum, specially those that don't know how to represent themselves well. need to be taken into consideration. i'm sure you do. but within the context of the talk, when you're speaking to people who for the most part, i include myself, agree with your point of view, we have to look at the fact that people who make low wages are in fact -- their lives will bev worsened by an increase of refugees, be it from mexico, from syria, et cetera, and that is something to be taken into account. granted, the people from syria or mexico perhaps have less at
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this point, but at the end of the day it's not -- what they're going to gain is not coming from then elite, right or left. it's coming from the poor -- >> okay you point is fair and thank you. >> i guess, my response to that would be that there's actually been a lot of studies done about the effect on refugee communities in various countries across europe, and that is an argument that says that it's going to affect people's jobs. in fact the evidence is the exact opposite of that. the exact opposite of that two reasons. one in many countries, certainly refugees are sometimes doing work that no one else will do, which is the case in the u.s., where if trump becomes president, a stairy thought -- scary thought -- the idea of getting rid of 11 million might groups -- the country would stop functioning, which says a lot about the way america is set up, a service industry. but putting that issue aside, in
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europe the evidencees actually the opposite. so seems to be a sense that refugees in fact are helping society, and actually increasing jobs, not reducing them. >> the one thing i add about this, abuse you raised the issue of mexicans in the united states, first of all, when you look at companies like disney or volkswagen, most volkswagens driven in the u.s. are manufactured in mexico. you can make an argument that the people that are fleeing their own economic dense separation -- desperation are coming to the united states and are throat american workers, you might find evidence that is true. but that misses the much bigger picture, which is that huge corporations are setting up a system where workers from the
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so-called global south are in a race with workers from the united states, including auto workers, garment workers, a whole slew of industries -- they're in a race to the bottom of the wage scale, and you can reduce it to the kind of trump style level of, these people are taking our jobs. first of all, most americans don't want the jobs that mexicans do is in country. every time we do a day without mexicans in this country, it's -- >> [inaudible] >> they're actually working way below american wages in this country go to any construction site in the city, you see workers from not just mexico. from poland, ireland other, places, who are being paid in cash, under the table, and the thing is -- i mean, come from a working class family and i hear the same frustrations from my relatives who say those same kinds of things. their perception is these people
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are come hearing take our jobs, and that's no point in saying, you're wrong, and let me explain marx -- let me talk to you debt -- no. but the point is -- actually think that u.s. labor unions are good, sometimes bad on this question, but in general, workers are being pitted against each other, and to turn -- but to turn on workers, worker against worker, who benefits? the people that benefit from it are huge corporations, the mass level employers. >> [inaudible] [inaudible] >> again, i -- you can draw all sorts of analogies in society to who the real sort of villain is, and it's -- on the one hand you have big guns and little guns. is the problem in chicago that you have a bunch of thugs that are murderers and that's their nature and they want to kill, or
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do we have a problem with guns in this country? these are much bigger questions than just does an individual person who flees they're country to come here, looking for work to support their family, are they the villains? they're not the villain. they're not coming heave with the intention of screwing an american worker. if could i get a union john job, they would do it. we're wearing clothes, driving cars, consuming products made by worker in other countries in some case children making clothes for children, who are being paid slave wages. the idea we're going to focus our energy on blaming the individuals who are trying to support their families to me is -- while i understand the frustration of individual workers who face those crisises is totally missing the points of the real villain here, and i appreciate your raising this but i -- mexican workers have much more in common with ordinaries american workers than either of those classes of people do with tim cook, the ceo of apple,
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whose phones are made by kids in chinese sweat shops. [applause] >> and i would also say one other point is that it the number of refugees from the troubled countries that the u.s. is a taking in, and my country, is shamefully low. we talk constantly about -- >> ten thousand and now increasing to 28 -- a fewer mow questions in here. >> any women that actually want to speak, what to be a welcome thing. you can skip to the head of the line. >> i wanted to thank you for housing works and thank you for the crucially important talk. i wanted to quickly ask if you -- what you both think of naomi cline's book of capitalism and climate change, what you think of her work. >> i like it. i support it. i think it obviously -- she is often said this changes everything, which is the book and the film is coming out at the moment is almost like a
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sequel to the shock doctrine, he last book. her message -- essentially says the economic system that exists is nose sustainable for a long-term sustainable world and that simply incrementally trying to do mine nor things that don't massively affect our economic system is not the solution. she also goes -- which i do like -- goes into the field some and shows examples of people who are doing it. so not simply someone who is pontificating from on high. actually goes into places in the u.s. and the world inch the last book -- obviously i continue her thesis in a way in my book as well. >> naomi is like a sister to me. one of my best friends so all biases on the table. i think she had real uphill battle with taking on the issue of climate change.
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naomi's first book, "no logo" became a secular bible of sources for the anticorporate globalization movement, and then i remember when she was writing shock doctrine. he original title would be "blank is beautiful." it -- which was a paraphrase of mao and the idea of like sort or blanking people to the point where you can rebuild them in your own imagery, and she was comparing the tactics of ma os china to rumsfeld, and cheney and it would have been a kind of revolutionary title because it would have pissed off a lot of sectarian leftists and also show this universal nature of tendencies. so my mind the shock doctrine is worn the seminal works to define the era we live through with
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bush and cheney. remarkable. >> it's really hard to energize people, particularly in this country on the issue of climate change. not that we don't have these movements, but the notion of the destruction of the planet is -- makes much more sense in the context of, like, the next "star wars" movie than it does in the daily lives of people currently living. it's a big ask to say to people, think about what will happen in 50 years if we don't do these things. so i give her a tremendous amount of credit because it's an unbelievably complicated topic to translate into meaningful, every day, what do you do about it? she is trying to put a human face on the immediate consequences of climate change, and -- but it's a tough, tough battle, and i think for someone
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of her -- at thus point now her stature to do that, says a lot about her own humility because she is clearly not trying to sell a ton of books with this. she is trying to get people who know her from other things to pay attention to a really complicated topic, and i think it is brilliant she is doing it. [applause] >> hello. i have an anecdote i wish you would comment on, which touches -- >> you personally are an anecdote. >> clarifying. it's about the haitian earthquake and the whole issue of another resource which we're not paying tension to and that's water usage and water rights. very important. after the earthquake, when this golds rush -- -- the gold rush happened, one of the thing they were in bad need of was water. now, haiti is an island surrounds with mountainous
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streams and things like that so you would think that repairing the the infrastructure and providing water purification would be a priority. but lo and lo andbehold, lane load after plane load came in with fiji water, and the rivers were clogged with the water bottles. >> anthony has spent time in haiti, looking at these issues. maybe you can -- i mean, what you're saying is interesting because you're talk can about how they're saying weibringing this water and then they leave this waste, maybe it's a metaphor for everything else, or an anecdote. >> i've been there twice in the last years, and one thing we constantly heard what that routinely there were things being shipped in that hey shops did not knee.
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there was notes a food shortage there was food available in haiti for haitians. it wag being flown in because haiti had been forced to do deals with the u.s. government to allow u.s. farmers to get access to the haitian market. so the reality of farmers being seen as secondary and less important than the american workers. that is a profound problem. also heard about issues of water. wasn't our main focus but with did at well. that -- people ask for -- it's a bit depressing. what are the so-called solution? there's no simple solution but almost such an obvious thing. it disaster strikes, actually think about what local people want? listen to what they say. it's not that complicated. don't presume an outside contractor who is getting paid a legal of a lot of money knows better. sometimes they may know better but offer they won't, and the problem in haiti has been so few haitians themselves were
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employed or trained or given any kind of experience so when those western corporations left, which they usually do what's left? not a lot. and that to me is often the legacy of an aid and development model that often is pushed by usaid, without little thought into the reality of people on the ground. the thought seems to me more how can we help u.s. contractors than actually haitians themselves. >> we only have other few minutes left because housing works runs on volunteers, they have to start closings down the shop. there are three people here waiting to ask questions. why don't we have each of you ask your questions, and then we'll have anthony summarize and wrap up the night. >> i was interested in a comment about the resources in afghanistan and i want to ask a question about your think threat changing face of disaster capitalism as the changing
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demands for minerals and energy sources, especially changes -- speak to the notion of climate change driving transition to renewable fuels. how do you think that transition will impact disaster capitalism, where do you think it will -- where will that change be seen the most and how will that affect local people? >> cool. let's get the next question. i'm taking notes here. go ahead. >> thank you, guys, for doing what you do. it's really important to me personally. so i just want to thank you. >> speak into the mic. >> i have a bunch of questions but i guess my most important one is, what do you guys thing of bernie sanders? >> you ohe is from australia. >> i read the thing in the intercept about the people who are protesting -- palestine.
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>> and them getting the boot, and, like, i guess my fear with bernie sanders is that it's just a smoke screen. we'll vote for the guy, and then it's not really going to be up to him. he has to do what they tell him. >> okay. >> and then -- >> take one more from you because we're out of time. pick your best one. >> the other thing is, what do you milwaukee of the drop in commodity prices and do you see any systemic credit risk as a function of that. >> okay, cool. thank you for the questions. >> all right. last contestant. >> this is kind of a loaded question, but anthony said in his last talk about they were using 9/11 as an excuse to do this endless bombing, and i just wonder if there's any sort of question as to the official story. >> okay. so, to summarize here, let's just take them one at a time.
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quickly, referencing the three trillion dollars in mineral resources in mines in afghanistan, how does that impact climate change, disaster capitalism, et cetera. >> so, the short answer is that it should but i suspect in a short term it won't. so when we were in afghanistan recently, the issue of climate change comes up with people who are i guess -- not western educated but people aware of the conversations and debates happening beyond afghanistan. there's no doubt that mining three to four trillion dollars of resources agency disaster for the environment, lefts alone climb change no question. and there is at least very, very small attempts in afghanistan to some kind of energy. what i would say is in a country like that, which is so broken, not saying there shouldn't be talks about green energy. there should be. the truth is there's still enough countries and corporations that will exploit those resources and want those
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resources and will pay for them for years and years, which is also the crisis that client activist have about transitioning to a fossil free fuel world. briefly,berfully sanders, yes, i'm not american and i won't be able to vote for him unless something changes. i think he has always had a blind spot about -- which has been documented by a lot of people but i was very lane he came out with a strong proposal to end the privatization of prisons and detention centers. think he is a breath of fresh air. don't doubt like a lot of people and still so much hope in obama and look where we are in 2015. i think sanders could maybe on some issues be a -- he has had a history on many issues of being fresh, and injecting not just reality but reflecting what so many people actually do think about politics. >> one thing about bernie sanders. i know dennis kucinich really
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well and the ran for president multiple times on the democratic ticket, and it was always great to see him in the debates and he always, i think, represented really well, and was able to articulate things on a much larger stage than people like him are normally given access to. but at the end of his run in congress, i asked him, why are you a democrat? why do you say -- why don't our run as a green party candidate or why don't you advocate for a multiparty system in the country? and his answer was a terrible one. he said i've cast my lot with the democrats. bernie sanders, is bad on guns, too, and i understand why. he is from vermont. if he came out strong against guns he would probably not be able to win his own seat. i wonder our how big of a begun gun love grandpa is, this palestine politics are just shy or atrocious, a


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