tv 2015 Miami Book Fair Saturday CSPAN November 27, 2015 8:00am-6:01pm EST
that. then he went on -- >> really badly. >> started something called ballinger america. and so we saw that. it was a powerful thing in my life and i'm sure your dad was a powerful impact in your life. we saw service firsthand, and people that we knew and loved stepping outside of themselves and doing things. there is not a prayer for mitt would have ever even considered politics it had not seen his father, george, do it. ..ank you for that question, bee i think our legacy is i want it to be that our grandchildren know that we, we serve others and help others. >> i also think on your facebook page i saw the annual family talent show, so a lot of fun there too. >> we have fun too. >> so i think this is going to be the last question. sorry, there's a lot here, but we're running out of time. my niece was diagnosed with
multiple yes low race, is there anything she might be able to take away from your living with ms that might inspire her when she is in the hospital getting treated? >> i have another really good friend who has a child with the same, and, you know, that's really, really hard, when you see small children. and i think more her to know -- for her to know that in her lifetime there will be more and better and more progressi and there will be more and better aggresse treatment where -- is it a girl? she will live in a place where not only will she have fewer attacks but we are on the threshold of this nerve regeneration of people that have spinal cord injuries. there are things happening that are so exciting i wish that you could all be in the meetings
that i and i'm sure that you also see what's coming in these brilliant engineers and scientists are working to make and improve people's lives so that even if she does lose some function that there's hope again with regeneration of cells into treating not only just the symptoms but getting to the point that your function is going to be better and that's the future. you still feel like you're carrying a bag of rocks? >> i feel it has been made so much lighter by all the people that i know came up to me all the time &-and-sign praying for you, i'm with you, we love you. it is so extraordinary to have that experience coming across the country and having that kind of response. >> has this giving you a sense of purpose that perhaps you
didn't have if you haven't stepped up to become the spokesperson and advocate talking about something you never imagined? is it giving you an advocacy? >> it gives you purpose and you just want to help. there's a lot of people that can pull the wagon so i will suggest that if people would think about buying this book we will sign it right after this and my proceeds go directly to research, not buildings or anything else, directly to research and we are going to make a difference in millions of people's lives through that. [applause] is that is a perfect segue into wrapping up this conversation with ann romney as she mentioned she is going to be in signing
books into the proceeds of the book to go to research and there's a lot of exciting things going on and we hope that that you will join us both to find a cure. by supporting her center you do that and we'll have more of these changes, so let us know what you think would be interesting to hear and remember she would say you are not talking about this until it happened to you and you could have stayed under the covers. you could have rolled over and said i'm not going to step up or speak up and every single person out this conversation says has the power within them to speak up on something that could change another person's life and i hope that you will think about that when you leave today, about your own voice and power and take a page from her and be inspired by her and excited your own life so thank you for joining us. [applause]
welcomed to booktv live coverage of the 32nd annual miami book fair. we are on location at miami dade college and we have several hours of author talks and callings ahead today. you'll have the opportunity to talk with wall street journal columnist peggy noonan, "new york times" reporter judith miller and pulitzer prize-winning author newest book on isis. you will also hear from ted kopper on cyber attacks, representative john lewis on civil rights and stacy schiff on the salem witch trials. the full schedule for today's available on the website booktv.org. now the first author events is about to begin. pamela paul is leading a discussion on books and reading habits. joining her to best-selling authors brad meltzer, margo jefferson, slow and costly, rick moody and pulitzer prize-winning biographer tj stiles.
live coverage on booktv on c-span2. in audible conversations [inaudible conversations] with >> good morning. welcome to the 32nd annual miami book fair. i'm a volunteer host and we are delighted to have you here with us this morning. if you look through the schedule of events today people see that her many venues for today and
sunday of programs in the swamp and the porch and more. please consider becoming a member of the book fare downstairs and 310411. your contribution will support this wonderful book fare. friends receive multiple benefits such as preferential seating was at the book fair events. this year you supporting the book fare is easier than ever. just text 501501 to donate $10. you will receive a back asking to confirm your donation and just reply yes. we are also grateful to sponsors including the foundation, oa cello and a bachelor foundation and so many more that are listed throughout the book fare. miami with her doesn't end
today. miami book fair programs and activities take place throughout the year here and all over miami. we are grateful to the college and the college and the hundreds of volunteers that make it possible. there will be a brief question and answer period and the author will be interviewing -- more than one will be autographing books immediately after the session just down the hall and to the right. there will be no interactions and here to introduce a special guest, is judge martha cook. [applause] >> good morning everyone. sorry about the delay that without problems like this it's no fun. as some of you know i'm a federal judge about two blocks away and i'm reminded by the late yoga berra i had the
pleasure of introducing the same panel by the book life at the fair and one could draw a couple conclusions and that is why did such a great job they asked me back. the decline to find someone to do this and i think the real explanation is the best one because we are all readers and the above authors will. so starting at my right is the narrator of this morning's panel pamela paul. i and many other readers of "the new york times" book review turn with anticipation to see which novelists and historians, short story writer or artist will be the subject as we grab our
morning cup of joe. joining her this morning with the following authors. margo jefferson is a pulitzer prize-winning critic of "the new york times" and a professor of writing at columbia university and her book on michael jackson was published in 2006. the most recent book is a memoir that offers a reflection of race, class and gender in the united states. brad is the author of a series of novels and as a recovering attorney. his attention to research has made history cool and i think that he's the only floridian on the panel this morning. if you want to see more of him on a turn on the history channel. his newest thriller the president's shadow opened with one simple idea one morning in the rose garden of the first lady uncovered a severed arm buried in the dirt.
[applause] sloan is a noted essayist and many of us were under a misguided assumption until last month that class was her debut novel that she blew the whistle on herself and we now know that it was her second novel and maybe this morning she will fill us in on the details. rick moody is the author of four novels this latest is the coattails of north america. i haven't read the model however i've learned that there are discussions of various scams and cons including the melon drop. as a former prosecutor i think i need to do some research. tj stiles is the author of several non- fictions and biographies. his newest work is a life on the frontier of a new america.
this book does an amazing job of telling the story of custer's life a fact often forgotten in the story of his death. as "the new york times" book review stated, he is a skilled writer with a rare ability to take years of research, believe it down until he has a story that is illuminating and at its best captivating. ladies and gentlemen, by the book by the fair. [applause] >> good morning. i'm going to start by talking about another book event at is to speak at the national book award on wednesday night to john accepted a lifetime achievement award and in his acceptance speech, which was not webcast or televised so i will share it with you here, he did not talk about his life's work were about his own novels or his process. instead, he talked about the book he reads and he describes
the book the little mass-market paperbacks on his bookshelf and he's had here i am not a writer at all i am a grateful reader. when i look at my bookshelves i find myself gazing like a museum goer. that's why i want everyone in this panel to be here for the next hour thinking about the books that surround them, the books that make the writer a reader andy reader andy reid are a writer. or a writer. the books that tell us who we are in this world and the world inside us and our imagination. for comments panel so, this panel probably unlike other panels at this years but there is the writers will be talking not about themselves as writers that are about themselves as readers. as the judge describes this panel came out of a book that i wrote edited cold by the book
writers on literature and the literary life which itself came out of a weekly feature into the preview call by the book and in that it is an interview with a writer or artist musician public figure about their life story as told through what they read unlike other profiles which we will go into childhood trauma and all the other fun memoirs so this is what i think of my life which is through the books i've read when i think back to moments of my life i often think about what i was reading at the time and the idea is you learn about a person and who they are through with a read is that there is a preparation for the panel. everyone here is a little bit off the off-the-cuff and no one here has actually done by the book so this is kind of a live
and i will warn you i'm going to ask unfair questions. everyone has time to prepare and contemplate and here we are going to to nam to put them up with a reckless leaks like everyone will have patience and everyone should be free to go back and say no i just remembered which one was the book that made me who i am today. so this is going to be a conversation and we are not going to go in any particular order and i'm going to start with an easy question for the panelists which is what did you read on your way to the miami look there. this is unfair to you because you are basically here but you can tell us what you read last night. >> did you mean in the car. in miami you can do that. [laughter] >> you think that is a joke. [laughter]
comic books. that's what i've been reading. i just finished the overture which i saw the end of it that is the one that i had on 95 as they crashed into the car in front of me. [laughter] what brought you to that particular book lacks >> i grew up on comic books and my family didn't read when i was growing up to my father at a sports page there were no books in my house and i was lucky to be the first in my family took her to college but comic books are what hit me it was easy to say i'm supposed to give you a big answer but the reality is if you think that the first sales that you read, it's not -- maybe
when you are a kid at his and as spiderman and to me the most important part of the story is clark kent because we are all clark kent and we know what it's like to be boring and ordinary ordinary and wish we could do something incredibly beyond ourselves. and what i love about his work is that he lets us into the fantastic. i never read anything that i feel like i can do which means i read a lot. [laughter] having opened up of comic books you were going to make everyone feel more comfortable about their airport reading. >> but again, they don't deserve any snobbery. to me every genre is 90% garbage and 10% gold. that's literary fiction and thrillers and poetry. and literary fiction was appear and we were all down here and that's garbage.
that is the gold in the world. >> i will read h. is for talk i don't believe you read this book by helen mcdonald. i got halfway through and one of the joy of the book i meant to pick it up forever but it's a memoir about a british woman that is also a poet. her dad dies as a sort and is a sort of crazy reaction it reminded me a lot of the thinking and the ways of
insanity that she felt she had to experience for herself and she decides to train a hawk and it's -- i wasn't halfway through and coming to despair i was sitting with the publisher on the plane. i happened to be sitting next to morgan and i lifted it out of my bag. i was so excited. >> to sit is the next event author of the book -- i was very fortunate. i was so excited and he gave me a thumbs-up and people have their activities and i got about halfway through and i just couldn't stop reading it. it was absolutely stunning and beautiful and i just love reading nonfiction. it has a beard -- fulfillment
quality to be an expert and maybe it's the same sort of thing you were saying where you want to read things that i don't know about. but it's a beautiful book and i got about halfway through. so i got to that part and i was grinning at this handbook and morgan's work of looked at me. it's not supposed to do that but yes it is a stunning look so i would suggest -- i can't see it going downhill from here but i would suggest anyone pick it up. >> how did you come to read that book lacks blacks >> probably through the review will into things that he had said about it and i think that i also have just finished writing
fiction and i'm looking forward to getting back into nonfiction but it is a muscle that sort of atrophied in a way and i wanted to get a good example of it and i kind of knew that this would be one of those examples. >> will can you hear me? okay will do. that's supposed to be on. thank you. now you can hear me. i'm assuming some of you in the audience are teachers because i was reading some student papers on the plane. i teach graduate and undergraduate nonfiction and so i was reading a very good personal essay. but i always have many things in my bag with me and i was also just starting to dip into a book
for the second time will buy a french writer, and it's blocking this terrific line between historical fiction in history. the subject is a great one. it could be a historical thriller and it's about the only successful plot to assassinate one of the top generals. but he starts off wanting to write historical novels and then he starts questioning all the conventions that historical fiction then he starts to question what history intact orange is -- arranges for will.
heavy interpretation is true so then he creates these wonderful themes that says okay it's based on facts fact but it's in my head, so you keep moving in and out of the story which is overwhelming. and the making of the story and the limit at the prejudice and beef tonalities of the writer in the grip of the research and narrative, so it's exciting. i'm really interested right now in books that are moving between and drawing on history for various forms, so i just finished for the three of all volume of genesis of latin
america based on and millions of sources millions of sources but also interior monologue and so this is kind of my obsession right now. >> that's going to bring me to the historian on the panel, tj stiles will. >> is this working? so what was i reading on the way here, i'm going to lie. i read [inaudible] [laughter] and i have some notes also. no, actually i just started reading the long halftime lock which somebody reminded me of the name of the author and said he is a well-known author who is he loved. then been mac found him. it's one of the experiences of
the war in iraq and afghanistan. and i'm interested in as somebody that writes nonfiction i see myself as playing a role specifically as a biographer of being a historian and also being a writer and biography is about the world and the outer world and in my case the making of the modern world but it's also following someone's life through of the world and as the try to understand the person is something that i try to do and so i am always reading fiction for pleasure much more fiction than nonfiction so having just written this book about someone who went through the board in history, george armstrong custer and the civil war and he came out of it with this romantic mindset i really have been interested in recent writing
about the experience overseas and so i would love to apply his work. so i just picked this up and it's a wonderful experience of getting inside of the mindset of soldiers who are not those that are going to be writing literary fiction and it's really spectacular. i liked reading this stuff right now because when we talk about the very life it's much like that of the soldier in the war which is punctuated by brief moments of terror. >> am i allowed to be reading several books at the same time? i brought a big pile of books
and i brought a pile of books to sort of satisfied every mood. they don't call him moody for nothing. >> deleted or not i've heard that one before. >> so, i bought two novels, one is 30 girls, steve erickson a great speculative fiction and literary fiction crossover guys book which starts with a really amazing jefferson and his sally sally hemmings passage and then i brought because -- here's the problem i'm on the book tour and i can never speak so i brought the boldest book imaginable to try to help me sleep.
[laughter] i'm here to tell you that the dullest book imaginable is being in time, so the german philosophy in the middle of the night is like a really insomniac. then i totally bought down on that. so i thought elvis costello's memoir which is a song of disappearing ink and it's the best music book that i have read in some time. i have a guilty pleasure in some of the books and so all the books got set aside while i read that in a famished state. >> the inspiration came out out of a book that i've been keeping a kind of journal of sorts that i called bob the book of books. i've been keeping this since i was 17 where i write down all the books i've read.
i didn't write about love affairs or angry disputes were just general despair. i wrote down what i've read and looking back on it it's it sort of tells the story not just of where i was at that time sort of in my real inner life but also how i came to read what i've read and you can see touch ejector efi was in a george eliot pays for if i had been confined to books that i was biting while backpacking through china and had to pick up whatever i could find. so i'm curious and finding what leads people to read what they've read. i like to believe it's book reviews that motivate people. [laughter] but i know that there are book clubs and people coming to bookstores still and there's word of mouth and you might read something online or in print or have a favorite author so i want to go down the panel here and
find out how you decide what you're going to read next. >> if it is pure choice, i do it pretty much the way that i choose what music i'm going to listen to. some little thing in me says this is what is in the. you need to discredit him and how you need a disharmony. sometimes it's someone i want to imitate. sometimes it is i'm feeling on turkey just today. give me a dose of some george bernard shaw because i have to write something forceful and sound convinced. some days you just need to imagine something that hasn't imagined you so you read some alien duck and other times you need to see what you think is a notion of source of so then you might go for some memoir or
novel. but it's really answering different parts of the psyche and intellect almost on instinct. >> for me if chooses a definition of pornography which is even know it when you see it. i feel like the books almost called you and choose you and sometimes it may be a review but when i trust the reviewer i tend to be more skeptical now. then you could say they do everything great. so it really has to be a person i trust and i will say that sometimes it's just i know i leave a lot to chance but my son was assigned and i was telling him as we were walking and he was assigned the board of the flies. i keep a list of the books i
like to read and we never read it in junior high school. this is my time and calling and i want to experience it as totally different levels. >> that decision is so useful as i answer to so many questions. [laughter] >> it's funny because for a long time i worked in book publishing for the division of random house and it was my job to read so many books about two or three a week which is a lot to be paying attention because you can't just fly through them because they were going to publicize them.
so i happened to work for a literary house and i was feeding my brain. it's almost like when you see these healthy cookbooks that come out and say what you should be eating to be healthy but not to say you shouldn't buy them but don't you already know and you're just not doing it. don't know that blueberries and salmon are good for you and pizza isn't, why do you need this book, anyway. >> many cookbook authors here aren't happy. [laughter] >> i mean it as a sort of an analogy for what you want to read and what you know you should be reading and if you give your self a good amount of junk you can give yourself something you consider more classic or better for you and so the way that i decided now was honestly what i had to work on because i didn't have much time.
and now that i quit my job about five years ago it's an exhilarating feeling e-mail to read whatever i want and this is what people do come of this is amazing. i will won't go into my local independent bookstore. it's wonderful in manhattan. for the first time in my life i find myself either asking them what they should read or what i should read. were a lot of times the way i will choose to read is by thinking i read so much of the same kind of thing. i made sure to story fanatic and i will move onto something else that's very different just to give myself texture. >> i will tell you what's not to use. don't use amazon reviews. [laughter] i like to collect -- this is mindful of a book that has been cited in the conversation.
i like to read a agree of the bad reviews of moby dick on amazon, this is the most tedious book ever. >> when is the whale coming back? the whale has been gone for 300 pages. [laughter] i think everyone is saying what desire to be your guide and i think that is important. because we are here i am and i am going to plug the bitter reviewing organs and to say not only pdr but new york books will and i like rain taxi, it is a little book review out of minneapolis, totally excellent. >> okay. sometimes it's a mix of questions. i mean part of what do i need to feed my brain, i like that answer that is some sort of an
intuitive side to what you feel like you need. there is a feud answers to that question for me. one is sometimes if you talk about needing to read for work that specifically i read for pleasure because i do a lot of research, but it crosses over a little bit. if i have an event with someone like i'm doing a conversation with somebody even if it isn't part of my tour, of course i'm going to read their book. and so i read this read -- i did an event before my book came out with adam johnson we had a conversation about fiction and nonfiction so i haven't read about yet. i haven't read fortune smiles and it was totally blown away. my wife and i were fighting over the books and we went out to dinner with him and his wife and it was a wonderful experience, and then flipside is that the people i know have some sort of professional connection.
and i become huge fans ahead of a foolish up at the new york public library and i really felt out of place because jennifer and nathan england and hermione lee are for drastic biographers. a lot of people were there and i started to read their stuff because i knew them and of of course they write wonderful books and something sometimes i think i want to read fiction that relates to things or things i'm trying to do like my current interest in reading about the iraq war. i want to know more about that experience and i'm trying to understand more about kind of almost retrospectively what it is that i'm trying i am trying to write about. and sometimes, when i was working on this book about custer, what i wanted to think about fiction, about people who, so i went back and i read a lot of shorter stuff about based on his experience as a soldier,
some of which is amazingly applicable. and we read calvary stories etc.. just fantastic stuff that is universal and i know coaster better from the radiator which is about a frontier fighting that is on the russian side of the chechens and he talks about a character who is just like custer. i feel like now i understand him and so sometimes it is what i need and sometimes just for pleasure. when i read nonfiction for fun is often the field i never do any work at all so i wrote classical history. i'm never going to write about ancient greece or rome is what it is a lot of fun because i have no idea when they are completely wrong. >> gone. >> it's interesting that you bring up tolstoy. the other day we were talking about afghanistan and someone had told him and he then read it and agreed if you want to read
one thing to help you understand afghanistan was tolstoy writing about chechnya of all things. i want to just go a little bit deeper into the question of why you choose what to read to get at sort of the fundamental question by we read. i was at my own book club last year and we were having a debate about one book or another and someone just sort of stopped the conversation and said to the group why do you read. it's a simple question but there's a lot of ways to answer it and i want to ask everyone here if you could distill it into sport a one sentence i read because, how would you answer that and fill that in? the >> i need in order to. >> i'm going to invoke that old escape i read to escape from
parts of my life and myself and to something else that i know why you i'd want or need or must have or am i going over my sentence. so it's an escape from and escape to. lots of motivations going to escape, not a simple word. stack that is a variation of my own which as i read to be transported. >> i wants to read it through someone else's eyes. it's the one moment in a book that you can really see through someone else's pupils and experience their world. but i do think as i get older, and i think that in the beginning when i first got that library card as a kid that's what i did it for that as i get older i like there's a subconscious thing in me that wants to connect. if you just read the book on the island and answered about how the yes question which books would you pick that's fine but
there was something profoundly rewarding and nurturing when you read a book and someone else has read it and to get to explore you get to explore that. i felt like all of my closest friends in writing are people i connect with and we share the love of that love of a certain book. i remember we just love these -- just love the same things and that connection is really there is something that just brings you together that is more than just being a allowed. >> this is great to be sort of repeating what he said in a way that i think with a slight twist i read for empathy and entertainment and i pray for
crossover because there's a sort of magic that happens when it crosses over. there is thinking of not just nonfiction authors but like michael cunningham, for people who do it right now, jim shepard is someone who doesn't right now. he has a little book called project x.. don't leave now, we are in the middle of talking but afterwards maybe go pick it up. and i read it to be moved when i am i'm not looking. i know it sounds -- you want to feel like you're in good hands with any offer it's the relationship of trust, but i also want to be laughing until the very end when i get kind of punched and got a little bit. >> i kind of read for the language. at the end of the day if it doesn't seem somehow, if it's not leaping off the page, i'm
going to find myself impatient. so for me come even if there's, even if there's the issue of translation that's in the way the language has to go somewhere and do something particularly special, or else i'm going to turn elsewhere. >> i am reminded of my son who was to i think. he had a favorite book that came into his room and he had the book on the floor open and he was trying to get his foot inside the book, literally tracking to get inside the book. and that's such a, you know it's cute and it makes a nice story. but that's the experience you want when you're reading. reading information is interesting and sometimes something is not immersive, but it's just a good story. you want to know what happens next and i don't turn my nose at that at all.
but there's a feeling that leader when he was like five and he got into comic books and i did this thing where i bought all of the marvel classics, they republished the original marvel comic books, the original spiderman, this is america's mythology. he loves superheroes, let's start with the classics. and i remember he loved batman. he said i wished gotham city was real. i want to live in gotham city. i said it's so dangerous, you don't want to live there. [laughter] it's a little disturbing. but to know people do to get inside somebody's head, to live in that world and understand i mean i love reading fiction that has -- i talked about reading war stories and better in stories but i loved edith gordon and i love getting inside of the lives of people of different
cultures and air as. but when you get a great writer that immersive viewing experience, there's nothing like it. no other medium does it for me the way that a great book does. so ultimately, that's why -- also, not to sound stupid on panels like this, you have to read. [laughter] >> that brings me to another subject dear to my heart. i have a little patience with people who disparage children's literature because it's what we read when we are children. that makes us readers and makes lifelong readers and it's those books often we turn to when we have children and we think back on when we think about what inspires us. so i would love everyone on the panel to describe what their life was like as a childhood reader, what kind of books they have become the books that were dear to them, heroes and heroines that inspired them.
[inaudible] we are going to start again with tj back to superheroes. >> exactly. i want to say hello to the people over here but can't see me. yes, it is interesting because when i was little, i loved comic books. but my father had this 1950s idea that comic books are bad for kids and taught them to play pool and awful like that. so i had to go to my friends houses to read comic books so it was a special pleasure because it was forbidden. like iron man is going to turn you into a bad kid. so yeah i guess that it was because he would become a drunk, etc.. so that was like this for the pleasure of it and having to go to a friends house to read comic books. and then as i got a little older and i started to read real novels at the same experience of having friends recommending
books and starting to read kind of monte crisco, the three musketeers, science fiction, it was just this amazing adventure and the pleasure of the adventurous life even though now i write about an adventurous life and i'm finding the dark side and i'm thinking about what it's like, there's still something in the pleasure of somebody putting themselves in peril and how are they going to get out of it etc.. there's just something inside of me that's really deep that i love about that and so i find myself writing about often detestable people but they have these kind of dramatic lives and i think that goes back to what i read when i was a kid. >> like many people, i have that sort of life changing experience with where the wild things are
and they're sort of prickly and intense moving to me and still is. thinking back i have a six-year-old daughter gets into many of these books and i can't to go back to the wild things and what is so remarkable. and so i think that she was a very intellectual thinker about what was valuable about them and i think that's where the wild things are is about the unconscious in the way that kid are at the top that is conscious and defender is a huge lower section but they don't really
have access to and i think in retrospect. when they descend into this other world and you have that experience every time you pick up the book. >> another site about the buck to make a buck is a letter by nordstrom to the editor and many other amazing offers and give us a dispute over the last line of the book the editors wanted to
change it. they wanted it to be warm and somehow have been punished a little bit too have suffered for his discussion but he was very insistent that no he comes back and got dinner is still hot. >> my parents were very -- not hyper literary city had shelves of the yellow spine of the national geographic's as far as the eye could see him a little bit of robin cook, and my dad spent some time in ireland, but
these are not really children's books although my mother did read the whole of gone with the wind when i was a kid. but i wasn't even sure what to read. i mean, they read to me it was in wonderland which was informative and i remember reading the secret garden and by mind being blown and for the same reason that where the wild things are, all of these things escape and then the idea that it's still hot but you can travel through time and nothing has changed. you can have these adventures that adventures if you have a little bit and got escape that we look for is stressed so much more visceral and active. then i went to a book fair at a church in new hampshire when i was ten and we can could pick up two books and i picked up -- i really didn't know what to do and i picked up the far side.
and i still have my section of the book fair. and i still have thomas hardy with all of the words i didn't know underlined. i figured out that one leader. the first time i are member falling in love with writing was finally when i was in middle school and it was funny and went back to the beginning we read double verse by troy and that is a short story entitled to have everyone is familiar with it but the gist of it is quickly vacated has a thing for his next door neighbor and asks her to go to the fair and she can't go but she says bring me back something and he is so excited. he has this crushing he's going to -- he has a mission. he wanders the fair all day and finally he goes up to a stall at the very end of the day and i think that he sees a blue vase or something like that and he says to the woman working the stand can i see that, but he
realizes that he has pulled her from a conversation with two other gentlemen her age and she looks at him and gives him the same smile that his neighbor has and says how can i help you and he looks at her and says never mind and he walks away. and my teacher said sometimes the stories can mean nothing and i thought no he just realizes the other woman was just humoring hem and i remember feeling like a short story and i were in it together and we were very close and we knew and the teacher did not and the adult was wrong. >> for me i think certainly comic books, i need a comic books growing up. they really protected me and we talked about that for the same reasons, but i think what changed me when i was little is my grandmother giving me that
library card. that was a big deal for me. she took me to the brooklyn public library that was not far from her house and the library instead this is your section. and i remember thinking these are mine. these are mine and i was like this is awesome. [laughter] and the first one i remember reading was christie ira member coming home with murder at the vicarage and i didn't know what this was. but i've been sitting there and there was a chapter of whatever it was, but it was a dead body. and that was just amazing to me. but i will say -- and i think that this gets far too little credit when you touch the imagination in a way that there's something special in there. but i will say the one i really did it for me and made me come over was judy blume.
judy blume was it. and it started -- again it's such an obvious cliché, but it was the first kind of book i felt like she's writing about me but then i remember hitting puberty and loving girls. it was an instruction manual to me. [laughter] i was like tell me what a brawl is. i need to know these things. and to this day she is a hero to me. [laughter] because again, to meet the books that stick with me or the books not that i enjoyed the most, i certainly enjoyed a lot of books but that moment in my life i needed. and they were just kind of like life preservers. >> when you're very little, reading comes through the ear of lots. i got ready to buy my mother. she read a lot of poetry. i especially love nonsense poetry.
it's wind which separated and it's wonderful to me that you can hear and read simultaneously also, in my house and certainly in my head at least early on words on the page gets mixed in with a lot of word of. so gilbert and sullivan, those are both in some way after corrosive nonsense poetry. in my day we had a song that covered everything from blues to bluegrass. so you would've played them on the piano but then you would
cite them. now i'm going to do a shout out to sean for secret garden, these girls books with her wings and huge for the young girl and a little one in. >> i'm going to ask one final question of the panel. i could ask 20 more. one of the questions i asked was if you could recommend a book to the president, what would that one book to be. i'm going to ask because we have a room. if there's one book there is one book that you want to evangelize or whether it's something great you read this year what would that book be backs?
we will go in no order just as you think of it. >> what i would recommend it to the president to the president and also something that just is a book that i love and so many people -- this is going to be one of the things we're recommending tolstoy is such a copout because of course you should read tolstoy but he is so intimidating to a lot of people with his gigantic novels, but it's like war and peace and 150 pages and it's like a ghost at the local level and across the cultural boundaries and it's an amazing story and an amazing piece of writing and a tightly condensed their fellow and it's an astonishing piece of writing and unfortunately extremely appropriate also. >> that was about afghanistan.
>> i'm really into the pre- 19th century classics right out and this is a really good one, it's an adventure story, dream story, love story. it's incredibly funny. there are few novels that are as funny. and the translation is the one to go with. and you can meet all of them here. .. >> i'm good to go with something current. hi-lo by jed wittig. we do an interview show at my house and no offense to anyone at my panel, the book, the person i invited to my house last night for dinner was the captain underpants. it unlocked reading for my kids. my son read 12 books in three
weeks. suddenly he was a reader. i wanted to shake that man down. >> margo question. >> emily dickinson. aurs ohis p[aso much to the to the office on this panel, thank you. can we have a round of applause for our authors? thank you very much. we will be setting up real soon for our next group. ♪ ♪ [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
>> this is booktv's live coverage of the 32nd annual miami book fair held at miami-dade college in downtown miami. booktv will be live all day long from the chaplain aubrey just love this event with pamela pollock of the new kind leading the discussion and web another set on the campus at miami-dade whawhere we are joined by severl authors throughout the day. we will begin with other eileen pollack. here's the book, "the only woman in the room: why science is still a boy's club." eileen pollack, what is the real you are referring to? >> guest: for different women it's a different room. so we've experienced of being the only woman in any room i think, i'm trying to address but in my case it's been really which science is going on.
physics in particular in my case. i was one of the first two women to get a bachelor of science degree from yale. i was often the only woman in the classroom. sober looking at why there's still come in my day, we understood why there were so few women in the room. really yale had just opened up to them a few years before. but what interested me was larry summers, then president of harvard looking around his own university at the time and saying where are the women physicists on my faculty. where are the women in the sciences because trade answer that question as what happened between the time i was a college student and the time in 2005 when larry summers was asking why are there still so few women in the science room on his
campus. >> host: why did you major in science? >> guest: it's interesting. it initially happened because when i was in seventh grade, my high school did not really have any advanced courses in science and math but they decide they're going to skip a few kids had so that when they were seniors they could take courses at the local community college. two or three boys from my class will let you skip ahead but i wasn't skipped. i was already very bored in school. i was hurt, upset. i asked my mother to ask a parent teachers not want i have been allowed. the prince of told it was because i was a girl and girls were not going to go on in science and math anyway side would just be wasting a seat. if you don't let them take the courses they will not go on. usage would be ruining my social
life if i would skip ahead in science and math. and, of course, if you are a girl who loves science and math at that age you don't have much to do social life anyway. but it made me so angry that i just decided i was going to be a scientist. i started reading a lot about science and math and science teacher myself. i actually really fell in love with th physics. i was so, i was reading about physics more but i loved just thinking about space and time in of the universe got started and hohow many dimensions of their work, and could you ever traveled faster than light? my parents to be to the world's fair in 1964, which just, i was just enthralled by everything. i really, that was what started me on the path of lumping science. >> host: you write in "the only woman in the room" that from an entire four at yale i saw myself handicapped or
behind. >> guest: because i came in behind. that's an experience still of a lot of limited and certainly a lot of minority. so if you don't get to go to really good schools when you're in high school, and, of course, it probably started elementary school because she have to be prepared for the good high school, science, the problem with science is it's too late by the time you get to college. you discover a love for history or something when you get to college you can make up for lost time. but if you keep your freshman year in college and you haven't had calculus or really college-based physics it's too late not only because you have so many courses you need to make up, but there's an ethos in science that doesn't exist in humanities. is one thing i discovered when writing the book. they are trying to weed you out,
trying to weed out anybody who they think by the time you're 18, isn't serious enough and also not prepared to have another idea of who should be a scientist, white male since birth has had access to a great education. so i came in, i had taught myself calculus. i had only a very general course in physics. i was one of, there were two women in a room with 118 and my first physics class. i was so far behind i panicked. i got a very low score on my first midterm that i was actually going to drop the major which is what happened to most women and minorities but i had an exceptional teacher for the course and he would not sign mike oxley. he gave me great advice about not looking at how other people were doing and just gave me some other books to read. i ended up scoring third highest on a final out of those 120
people. as often happens if you come from behind you over, over exert and end up going for past the crowd. so it ended up top of my class i still always felt as if i were behind as if i did know what i was doing as if there was something different o all wrong about me. icon that's a very common experience. >> back to book come in elementary school you write girls and boys perform equally well in math and science. only a junior high school win in those subjects begin to see more difficult to become more conscious of boys of their social status to their numbers diverged. >> guest: yes. that's still true. you would be surprised how i think we lose most of the women, most of the girls who might become scientists or computer engineers or what have you in seventh grade, eighth grade,
when they really feel the pressure not to be doing well in the sciences, or really much of anything in school. it's considered nerdy and they're making decisions at that age that affect the entire rest of their lives because they are not taking the advanced science math and computer courses that they would need. and their parents often without even realizing it, let them take the easier course for as their brothers, the parents say of course you're going to take advanced physics. you can't drop the course just because it's hard. but the girls are sort of like of course, honey, you don't need that course. and guidance counselors and teachers, i was shocked how even today so many girls told me that the site and math teachers in high school would say things like you are too pretty to be good in math, or i will grade you on a girl curve because i can't expect you to do as well
on a boy kerf. this is going on even today, not in all schools. this is what all girls encounter but you would really be shocked at how prevalent it still is. >> host: you said you were to to of the out of 118 in your class. has that changed? have those proportions changed directory they have and i should say that was an introductory class. the actual class of physics major, there was like 12 of us and i was the only woman. there was somebody a year older. there were a few more women now so maybe there would be three or four but i was, so women are now more likely to go through and get an undergraduate degree in physics or math but now we are losing them, they are not going on to the ph.d, or they start a ph.d and drop. often for the same reasons that
i walked away from, i got my undergraduate degree but didn't go to grad school because no one encouraged me. no one said yo you're really god at this. no one cared. the are a few more women in those fields and we're losing them at a slightly later stage in the process. but we are still losing them. and, of course, the minorities it's just much more dire. >> host: today divide only one-fifth of all physics ph.d's in this country are awarded to women. only about half of those degrees to nativeborn americans, and only about 14% of all physics professors in the u.s. are females. >> guest: that's true of. >> host: what did you do after four years of science at yale? >> guest: first i had a breakdown because i had been working so hard, almost literally every minute -- waking
minute of my life to do my research. so once i walked away from it i had to really change everything about my life but i had taken some really wonderful writing, creative writing courses while i was at yale and i was encouraged in those. i don't think i was more talented as a writer than as a scientist. if anything it's the opposite but i professors telling me you are really good at this, after writing. and four years of physics i didn't hear that. so i became a writer. i made myself over. >> host: what you doing today? >> guest: i'm a novelist and short story writer and i am a professor at the university of michigan. i teach on the faculty in creative writing post but you do creative writing? >> guest: yes. >> host: have you utilize your science degree at all? >> guest: yes. certainly early in my career some of my science, some of my
writing was a science-based when i was trying to a living, but many of my characters are scientists in my fictions. it's not science fiction but it is about scientists. and coming back to it after all these years to write a nonfiction book, "the only woman in the room," about what i thought of as my most shameful part of my life that i didn't, that my principle that said women never go on in math and science and i felt i proved him right because i didn't go to graduate school, to come back to it in this way and have it be something so much more, you know, to look at what has been going on and to stop laming myself for not having continued has really been was remarkable for me. >> host: you talk about characters in your book but one of the most popular shows on tv today is the big bang theory. >> guest: most female
scientist can't bear to watch because it gives them such pernicious stereotypes. in the book it's very funny, well acted, we show in some ways it makes the sciences, even children who is so super nerdy scene ended look at the stereotypes. panny who is the neighbor from next-door who is the woman you really want to be if you were a young woman watching the show, she's pretty and bouncy and happy and normal. she's totally math and science illiterate. and then the real scientists who are portrayed as brilliant are all male and, of course, when you want to be one of those if you are a young man. you would want to grow up to be sheldon. so it's perpetually a stereotype that scientists are just these horrible nerds who are barely human. when they were forced to put women scientists on the show, they came up with a knee, shoulder groping, who's incredibly come and rely the actors who portray sir is an
attractive woman and she has a ph.d in neuroscience, but to make her credible that to make her look incredibly dumpy. she's very strange but she has no aspect. because that's people's perception of it gave no scientist, what woman would want to be amy? bernadette is better but just that awful squeaky voice and she married howard. but amy in particular is just come and i think especially now the images of women that girls are raised with, are much more hyper sexualized them hyper romanticized and they were when i screwed up in the '60s or 70s. so for women today the gap between how their lead to imagination look and act in a somebody like any who ar still e startup of a woman scientist is even wider than it was in my
day. it's even hard to think of yourself as being sort of feminine in a traditional way and fitting in into that world of either high-tech our physics or something why that. >> host: you think gloria steinem in your book. why? >> guest: because every woman should. i mean, there's no direct link but i think when i was growing up, strangely enough in the '60s and '70s without about have been fought and won. so when i go read together this debate and young women say to me, everything is fine now, it was just awful in your day. no, in our day we thought it was fun. if you would've asked me when i was in college i would've said i'm not a feminist and nothing is wrong, it's not different for me. you're kind of in denial. but women like the gloria steinem were really fighting for the privileges that i got, and i
think young women today really, they sort of still need a wakeup call. i think that's what we are witnessing now. >> host: who is "the only woman in the room" written for? is a written for high school students, college students is a written for your generation? >> guest: i like to think it's written for all of the above and that is also written for women enforceable i would hope that a lot of men would read it. anybody who is interested in their daughters, their wives, mothers what they have been through but it's not only for women in science. it's basically women in any field that not traditionally female. i've heard from a lot of women in business, certainly in high-tech, law, finance that they really feel their experiences are similar to a lot of the studies i quote at the end of the book really are trying to address that. in the final chapter, an excerpt
of the book came out in the "new york times" magazine two years ago and heard from literally thousands of women and men in response to. so the epilogue is really am trying to bring in a lot of other voices. not only for studies that have been done on gender bias in science but the experiences of other women and men who wrote it is either agreed with me or fill in gaps in some cases disagreed. so i think it's really for anyone who's interested in, i hope it's just a good read. i think some of it is even pretty funny, but really for anybody who is interested in women in an environment that were not traditionally open to them. >> host: "the only woman in the room: why science is still a boy's club" is the name of the book. eileen pollack who splits her time between ann arbor and new york city is the author. thanks for being on booktv. >> guest: thanks so much for having me. >> host: live coverage from
the miami book fair continues ever going back to the auditorium with representative john lewis is going to be talking about his second in his series on -- >> even if you're reading books, make them quite a here to register special guest author today is robbie bell. robbie. [applause] great and powerful morning to you all. we're going to be enriched. ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure to present this morning retired architect ron frazier and retired rector of pharmacy regina frazier. they are exceptional community active volunteers in this town. ron is chairman and ceo of the funding corporation and member of the board of historic hampton house community trust, every gene is chairman of the book
committee of the links, incorporated greater miami chapter, my chapter, and liaison to and member of the board of the linkages and legacy think which is a publisher of linkages and legacies volumes one into. these are historic profiles the big thing notable greater miami florida pioneers of african descent. it gives me great pleasure to introduce the links, incorporated national president and her husband mr. and mrs. ron frazier. [applause] >> good morning and welcome. we are excited to present to you a major participant in the civil rights history of this nation. united states representative john lewis from georgia's fifth congressional district.
congressman lewis is a man of integrity, one of the most courageous leaders of the civil rights movement has ever produced. >> a sharecroppers son unfairly 21st, 1940, outside of rural troy polamalu. he lived on the family farm and attended segregated public schools and tight county alabama -- troy, alabama. despite of the activism surrounding the montgomery boycott and in the words of reverend martin luther king, jr. that he heard on the radio, he decided to join the movement. ever since, he's remained a vanguard of progressive social movement and the human rights and voting struggles. congressman lewis is the subject or co-author of numerous tax. most notably he has co-authored
a number one "new york times" best selling graphic novel series "march." >> book one was released in 2013. book two was released this year and immediately became a "new york times" bestseller. congressman lewis is the recipient of numerous awards including the medal of freedom from president barack obama, the naacp's metal, the capital award of the national council of laurent is a come and the only john f. kennedy profile in courage award for lifetime achievement -- low gaza. and out as you said at his feet, please listen and learn from an insiders perspective about "march." but first stand up and give a rousing ovation to one of the finest citizens this nation has to offer.
ladies and gentlemen, the honorable john lewis, and co-author andrew adin, codirector and policy advisor. [applause] >> good morning. >> good morning. >> delighted, very happy and very pleased to be here in miami, the miami book fair, one more time. i want to thank the link for being involved in part of this
effort. thank you for those kind words of introduction. you heard in the introduction that i didn't grow up in a big city like miami or atlanta or washington or new york, or chicago or philadelphia. i grew up in rural alabama 50 miles from montgomery. outside of little place called troy. my father was a sharecroppers, a tenant farmer. but back in 9044 when i was four years old, and i do remember when i was four. many of you remember when you were four. you really don't? what happened to the rest of us? my father had saved $300 a man sold him 110 acres of land for $300. my family still owns this land today. [applause] on this farm there is a lot of
cotton and corn, peanuts, hogs, cows and chickens. be out there working in the field and we would tell the story in "march." picking cotton, gathering, pulling corn to mmo to which the what, you are falling behind. you need to catch up. and i would say this is hard work. she would take hard work never killed anybody. well, it's about to kill me. [laughter] so working on that farm raising those chickens taught me hard work. discipline, perseverance, to never give up, to never give in, to keep the faith and to keep my eyes on the prize. some of you know doubt have heard me tell the story, probably read it in "march," that on the form it was my
responsibility to care for the chicken stick and i fell in love raising chickens. i know you are all great readers of the books. you love books but you don't know anything about raising chickens. i know some of you love to eat chicken but you don't know anything about raising chickens. as a little boy it was my responsibility, my calling to care for the chickens. so when a setting in with said, take the first exit and mark them with a pencil, places them under this heading in and wait for three long weeks for the chicks to hatch. some people may be asking, why do you mark them with a pencil? from time to time another in what did on that same test and they would be so more eggs and had to be able to tell the fresh eggs from the eggs that were
already under this heading in. the colony? if you don't, that's all right. many of these chicks were hatched and i would take these old chicks and give them to another hen. of them in a box with a lantern. get more fresh eggs, mark them with a pencil, place them under the setting hen. the setting hen has to sit for another three. what i look back on it was not the right thing to do. it will stop the moral thing to do. it was not the most loving thing to do. it was not the most democratic thing to do. but i was never quite able to save $18.98 to order the most inexpensive incubator from the sears roebuck store. in with old enough to remember the sears roebuck catalog? really? heavy boat. some people called it the
ordering booker some people called it the wish book. i wish i had this. i wish i had that. just kept on pushing. but as a little child i wanted to be a minister. i wanted to preach the gospel. so from time to time with help of our brothers and sisters and cousins we would get all of our chickens together in the chicken yard like you are gathered here in this hall. my brothers and sisters and cousins line to the outside of the chicken yard, around the chicken yard. the chickens would make up the audience, the congregation and i would start speaking of preaching. when i look back on it some chickens would bow their heads. some of these chickens would shake their heads. they never quite said amen but i'm convinced that some of those chickens that i preached to in the '40s and 50s tended to listen to me much better than some of my colleagues listen to
me today and the congress. [applause] as a matter of fact, some of those chickens were a little more productive, please they produced eggs. that's enough of that story. growing up there from the little town of troy, visit montgomery, visit tuskegee. as for those signs whitening, klugman, white women, colored women. go downtown on a saturday afternoon, go see a movie. all of those little black children had to go upstairs to the balcony. all of the little white children went downstairs to the first floor. my mother, my father, my grandparents wide, wide? davidson that's the way it is. don't get in the way. don't get in trouble. but in 1955 to 15 years old in the 10th grade i heard of rosa
parks. i heard of the words of martin luther king, jr. the action of rosa parks, the words and leadership of dr. martin luther king, jr. inspired me to find a way to get in the way. i was inspired to get in trouble. and i got in what i called the trouble, necessary trouble. book one, book two, maximum approval come. we will inspire another generation of young people and not so young to stand up to speak up and speak out and get into trouble, necessary trouble to help change the country and make our society and make our world a little bit better. [applause] some of you may be asking me to tell the story, how did you meet
rosa parks? how did you meet martin luther king, jr.? in school in nashville, tennessee, rosa parks came to speak at a rally at a church, and i met her. long before the end, i applied to go to a little college called troy state college been. now known as troy university. submitted my application, high school transcript i never heard a word from the school but it didn't admit black students. at the age of 70 i wrote a letter to dr. martin luther king, jr. i didn't tell my mother, my father, my sisters or brothers, any of my teachers. dr. king wrote me back and send me a round-trip greyhound bus ticket and find me to come to montgomery to meet with them. september 1957 an uncle of mine gave me $100, more money than i ever have. gave me a big trunk which some
of you probably call back then maybe you call a foot locker. would put these big upright trunks that had the drawers that would open up, bring it back together, had the curtains. i put everything that i owned except those chickens in the foot locker and took a greyhound bus to nashville. and after being in school in nashville for about three weeks, i told one of my teachers that i've been in contact with dr. martin luther king, jr. this teacher new dr. king. both have studied together in atlanta. so dr. king got back in church when i was at home and such as i can see. in 1958, 18 years old, home for spring break, took a bus to montgomery. a young lawyer, never seeing a
lawyer before, never met a lawyer before, young man by the name of fred gray. had been a lawyer for rosa parks, dr. king, the montgomery movement became our lawyer during the freedom ride during the march from selma to montgomery. met me at the greyhound bus station in downtown montgomery, drove me to the first baptist church. and ushered me into the pastor study. i saw dr. king. i was so scared or di didn't knw what to say or what to do. dr. king said our youth avoid from troy? argue john lewis? and i said, dr. king, i am john robert louis. i gave my whole name. and he started calling me the boy from troy. [laughter] i went back and had a discussion with my mother and my father and told them of my meeting with dr.
king and the reverend dr. king had said we had to file a suit against the state board of education, troy state. in the process my home may be bombed or burned. we could lose the land, go back and have a discussion. so i decided to continue to study in nashville. so in nashville a group of students from the university, tennessee state, american baptist college, the medical school, vanderbilt him and peabody, like and white college students start studying the way peace, love, nonviolence. we studied what gandhi that tempted to accomplish in south africa and what they publish the navy. studied the role in civil disobedience. we studied what martin luther king, jr. and the people of
montgomery was all about. and then we started sitting in. andrew aydin would tell you we did a little research, working on "march" and discovered that in 1960, after we had been sitting in, all in nonviolent fashion, people would come up and spit on us, put lighted cigarettes out in our air, down our backs, pour hot water, hot coffee on us. we were so orderly and so peaceful. and then we heard that we may get arrested. and during those days when i protested, i sort of wanted to look good. sort of put on my sunday best. i had very little money. i wanted a new suit, if i was
going to go to jail. some went to a used men's store in downtown nashville and bought a suit. i paid $5 for it. and i tell you, seeing this picture, andrew, i looked fresh. [laughter] and if i still had that suit today i probably could sell it on ebay for a lot of money. for a lot of money. my first arrest. during the '60s i was arrested 40 times. and since being in congress, five more. nonetheless, on i got arrested two years ago, october 2 years ago, there was 200 of us. eight members of congress, hundreds of private citizens. we were trying to get the speaker of the house to pass a
bill that the senate had passed to bring it to the floor for comprehensive immigration reform. it doesn't make sense to have millions of people living in this country of ours and not providing them citizenship or on a path to citizenship. that's right, that's not right, that's not there. in my book there's no such thing as an illegal human being. as the pope said -- [applause] as the pope said when he spoke to the congress a few weeks ago, we all are immigrants. we all come from some other place.
now, "march" tells an unbelievable story. it's not just my story. just think, a few short years ago in 1961, the same year that president barack obama was born, black people and white people couldn't be seated together on a bus. leaving washington, d.c., traveling to virginia, through north carolina, south carolina, georgia, alabama, mississippi. we were on our way to new orleans to test the decision of the united states supreme court. it became part of the original freedom ride. i was one of the 15. we went through a period of training for four days. the night of may 3, 1961, we
went to a little chinese restaurant. i grew up in rural alabama, attended school in nashua. i never had chinese food before. we had a wonderful meal. someone spoke up and said, you should eat well. this may be like the last supper. the next day some boarded a trailways buzz, some boarded a greyhound bus. my seat mate was a young white judge whether the two of us entered a so called white waiting room, attempted to. in rock hill, south carolina, we were attacked, beaten and left lying in a pool of blood. we were beaten by members of the klan. may 1961. february '09, one of the guys that beat us came to my office, he was in his 70s.
his son was in his 40s. he came and said, mr. lewis, i'm one of the people that beat you. i want to apologize. will you forgive me? the young son started crying. he started crying. and i said, i accept your apology. i forgive you. they hugged me. i hugged them back in at the three of us cried together. that is the power of the way of peace, the power of the way of love. that is a power of nonviolence that is moving to a reconciliation. yazidis saying in effect that we must come to the point where we laid down the burden of race. it is saying to future generations that we can create the beloved community but it
doesn't matter whether we are black or white, idea, asian americans or native americans. we are one people, one family, one house. we all live in the same house but not just american health but the world house. [applause] i would like to quote a man that was born here in the great state of florida, a. philip randolph, was born in jacksonville, florida. he moved to new york and became a champion of civil rights, human rights, labor rights. and mr. randolph said when the so-called big six are become planning to march in washington he would say to us sometime, maybe our for mothers and our forefathers all came to this great land in different ships but we all are in the same boat now. that we must look after each
other, care for each other, and try to move closer to the beloved community. dr. king put it this way. we must learn to live together as brothers and sisters, or we will perish as fools. gandhi said it is in nonviolent or nonexistence. "march" is saying to another generation, it is possible for us to be a little more human. just be human. i tell young people all the time, this is what "march" is saying and andrew is going to speak about it, we have to come to that point where we have the capacity, the ability to forgive. and lay down the burden of division, the burden of separation.
i tell young people never hate. hate is too heavy a burden to bear. now, some people ask why are you so hopeful, why are you so optimistic? i think it's in my dna. but it's also what i discovered in school, in life, it is better to love than to hate. it is better to do good and to do evil -- better to do good vantage of evil. can become to the point as human beings that we respect the dignity and worth of every human being? we want to spread the word and we traveled all across america
carrying the good message, the message of hope, the message of love, the message of peace. and in my last arrest i must tell you, i left my bail money someplace. we have been told it was going to be $50, and i didn't have the money. the capitol police had arrested us to give up apologizing and say what you say to do this, congressman, but we were ordered to do. it's going to cost $50 to get out of this place. and this young man, my staff person somehow went into his pocket and found $50 got me out of the place. and i did repay you, right? [laughter] i am very, very hopeful about
the future. march 1 is out. march 2, march 3 come and i'm so sorry that the artist, illustrator is dodgy. this young man is so good, andrew will tell you, he makes the words sing and dance. and sometimes when you are signing a book, and we signed together, he will draw a chicken and the chicken is saying, amen. [laughter] so i said to each and everyone of you, you must never ever give up. you must never ever. you must keep the faith, be helpful, be optimistic, be happy. enjoy life. and let's do what we can to save
this little piece of real estate we call earth. not just for this generation but for generations yet unborn. we can do it and we must do it. thank you very much. [applause] [inaudible] >> how do you follow that? my name is andrew aydin. i served as the congress and digital director and co-author of "march." [applause] i'm sure at some point before you came here today you asked
yourself why did john lewis decide to write a graphic novel? and it's my fault. it started in 2008. it was the sum of hope and change. barack obama was sweeping to the democratic primary adequate to serve on congressman lewis' reelection campaign as his press secretary. it was contented into the campaign. congressman espousing his opponents. those of on the staff research talk about what we're going to do afterwards. some folks said go to the beach. other folks if i'm going to go visit my parents. i said i'm going to go to a comic book convention. as you can imagine the outside world the politics i got laughed%. except one person did not laugh. it was john lewis. and from the back of the room he said do not laugh. there was a comic book during
the civil rights movement. .com book was called martin luther king and the montgomery story. 10 cents, 16 pages published by she called the fellowship of reconciliation. i didn't know much about it at the time for when she told me i went and looked it up on the internet, read it was about the montgomery bus boycott, an introduction to gandhi, the philosophy of nonviolence. it was a -- i've been reading comics since i was five. truth be told i started reading comics after my dad left because it was a refuge, a place to reach stores the justice come about role models and heroes who fought for the right thing for no other reason than it was the right thing to do. having done that, having read that my whole life and seeing john lewis and seeing a comic book had played a meaningful role in the civil rights movement, i couldn't help myself. he was a man who'd been a part of almost every single moment of
the civil rights movement. he sat in a national. event a freedom rider. even -- he helped chair sncc. he co-led the march on bloody sunday. so i was 24 bit i did not know any better. i started asking the congressman the icon john lewis, why don't you write a comic book? and at first he said oh, well maybe. which if you have a chance to work in politics you will quickly find that maybe is a very kind way of saying no. but i couldn't give up on the idea that it meant so much to me. he meant so much to me. i grew up in atlanta. he's the my congressman since i was three and yet -- that's right. my mother still doesn't believe it. and yet having grown up in atlanta, having heard so much about the civil rights.
nobody ever tony but sncc. nobody taught me the role of young people, i really and truly they were the linchpin. they were what pushed radical reforms into the mainstream. that they made the movement work. they were the glue. is like asking john lewis, why don't you write a comic book? people kept laughing. and i kept asking. until finally one day john lewis tournament to me and he said, okay, let's do it. only if you write it with me. that day changed my life. so i say to you today, people are laughing at you, you're probably doing something right. [applause] but that was just the beginning. how do you go about a congressman say okay, i'll do it comes to actually getting a book
put together published? it took us five years. the congressman has a day job. i'm on his staff. i did, too. so it meant every night, every weekend and people would go see the, go out relax, see a movie, we would go back to work. i told the kids the other day, you think homework is bad. tried out. in the meantime i also decide to go back to grad school, if things were not hard enough. i wrote my graduate thesis on martin luther king. what i found prove to me we were on the right path. it turns out dr. king help edit that comic book. can you imagine? dr. martin luther king, jr., comic book editor. but there he was in the fall of 1957 poring over a comic strip in fact is added made it into the final version. so the congressman patiently patiently worked with me. for months that became years.
it was a surreal journey. early on the congressman to bite me to go along on his pilgrimage. which is where he leads members of congress down to alabama it shows them the sights, tells them the stories. i get into an elevator and there was robert kennedy's aid, leader of the published by the national tennessean. and ample kennedy, robert kennedy's widow. and i couldn't help myself. my gosh, excuse me, i just thought you'd want to know, you are in a comic book i'm working on with the john lewis. [laughter] ethel kennedy looks up at me with those big beautiful eyes and she says, well that's nice to hear. [laughter] so you can understand what it meant to me when a few years later she called me on my cell phone to tell me that "march" one was the first graphic novel
to ever win the robert f. kennedy book award. [applause] >> but that was at the moment we were realize were well underway to inspiring a new generation. that moment came just before book one came out. i got a phone call from a reporter at a conservative newspaper that shall remain nameless, and he said look, i don't usually do this but it gave the book to my nine year old son and he has read it. that he went and put on a sunday said the notice marching around a house demanding equality for everyone. [laughter] imagine if we existed in a world where there was a social consciousness in every nine year old, in a generation the injustice we see no longer be tolerated. but it's not just that. we don't teach of the civil rights movement to we teach intolerance -- teaching
tolerance without report every year the looks of quality education in this country and it's nothing but bad news. 34 states get a d. or an f. another 13 it a seat. three state to do it okay. that's it. how can you understand what is happening in this country if you don't understand the civil rights movement? so much of our politics stemmed from the vital decade. so much legislation, so much activism, so much hope. everything comes from the. we have to change that. we called it a 10 word problem. kids graduate from high school in 10 words about the civil rights movement. rosa parks, martin luther king, i have a dream. that's it. but we are changing that. in two years "march" is being taught in schools in more than 40 states but it's been used in freshman reading programs in more than a dozen universities. [applause]
and the congressman is giving his all. is going around the country talking to students, explaining his life story. it's important they see you. it's important they see he is a real human being. so when they can emulate. in society today civility is sort of like. no human being more fully represents that than john lewis. [applause] in the congressional office i help with the carcass and social media. innocents i tweaked for a living -- in a sense. but it's a very serious part because social media representative on about changing the way we interact with each other and within our elected officials. one of the things i like to students want to go to the schools is what would dr. king have tweeted?
what would gandhi have posted? how with the views of these tools? right now we are seeing a generation of armchair activist. people like to talk and complaint and voice their opinions on social media but they are not using it to organize additional to the fullest extent of this possibility. we are starting to see growth but that's when "march" is onboard to la's of the principles of nonviolence, how another generation did. we focus on documentation, focus on the mimeograph machine and a small tools that apple used to such great effect to show this generation how to use those principles to achieve even greater results. they are getting there. we've had students engage in sustained campaigns and civil disobedience after we visited their schools. we've had students e-mail and say they are organizing. we see the passion that they have. once they start reading they want to know. they want to know what they can do. so we will get there. where do i think we should start
with i think we have to start with student loans. there's so much wanted this country we need an activist generation. we have to get rid of the student loan debt so students can be those activists. but it's not the only problem, certainlcertainly not. but that allows us to create an activist generation and put it that way. when john lewis got married in 1968, the wedding announcement read lillian to wit unemployed political activist john lewis. [laughter] people who are ahead of their time pay a price. we must lift the burden of debt so that this generation is free to pay the price to build a more perfect union. i'll tell you one more story. when i was a kid and i was in high school i brought, cooks to my english class. my english teacher took them away. she said they were not real books. i had the opportunity to go back
to my high school with congressman lewis. [laughter] and see my english teacher and discussed her experiences at teaching our graphic novel. i say that as no form of comeuppance to the teacher because she is doing the lord's work. she's a teacher. she deserved a nobel peace prize for putting up with the students every day. but i state as an example of a power of an idea whose time has come. in the brief time span in which change is possible. so i ask you, join us, march. thank you. [applause] so we have time to take a few
questions. i think there's a mic. >> congressman lewis, i would like to ask you a question about a guy i know from my synagogue. he's an activist. he calls itself an activist. he does go to protests and stuff but he refuses to register to vote. and i would like to know how i can convince them to vote. he said he followed the might of both parties and they're both the corrupt. but i told him it's a basic civil right. >> you tell him, just tell your friend that i would strongly suggest that he register and vote. the boat is the most powerful nonviolent instrument or two we have in the democratic society and we should use it. [applause] ..
>> i met this guy named john lewis who said dave a little blood and the bridge for the right to vote and we have to vote. you fail to vote you don't have a voice. [applause] >> thank you both for writing these books, among other things it gives us the pleasure and honor of a hearing fro you. what was more difficult for you, the hard work on the chicken farm or serving on the benghazi committee? [laughter] >> well, as the staff will point out,-- but i think deshler, the
partisanship and washington, is too far and that important part of john lewis' story is that he is above that. he is example of what it is to seek forgiveness and work together with people of different ideologies and i wouldn't have given my 20s on this project and a spreading his story, if it wasn't worth it, if it wasn't crucial to the future of our democracy. his example is something we must follow and so you are correct, that was too far, too much, but i hope in what i pointed out to the american people is that we all have to rise above it and follow john lewis his example of forgiveness and to show that you cannot spell revolution without love. love is the highest virtue in this country and it must be honored as such. so, thank you. [applause].
in the commerce and lewis, i just wanted to say that there was absolutely no need for the couple who introduced you to request a standing ovation from this miami, book fair audience. [applause]. >> thank you. select commerce and lewis, in the light of your contributions in the civil rights movement, to fold question, when is your view of blacklight's matter and the second whidbey, what would be one of your favorite books that you have read that you would highly recommend that other people read? >> i think the young people that engage in the work of black lives matter have fallen in a rich tradition.
when you see something that is not fair, not correct, not just you have to speak up, speak out and find a way to get in the way , to get in trouble, good trouble, to help educate, inform and inspire. i think in america today we are just too quiet. we are just too quiet. >> and one of the favorite books that you have read that you would recommend other people read. >> well, read march, by all means. thomas merging, when i was marching on that bridge from selma to montgomery-- i were a backpack before became fashionable and in the backpack i had two books. one was the history of political tradition by a harvard professor and a book by thomas merging on
contemplation. before going on a march, before sitting in, before going on a freedom ride, before walking across the bridge, some of us have what i call an executive session with ourselves. you prepare yourself. that i was going to die. so, you read and you get the necessary energy and the necessary strength. i thought i was going to be arrested and jailed. i was beat i had a concussion on the bridge. i thought i saw death, so sometime just read books i'm a poll essays. there are plenty of good books out there. thank you. [applause].
>> hello. i have a question. you know how-- let's say we have a huge pipe and water is shooting down it; right? a good force, okay. and then you have smaller pipes coming off of it, the pressure and speed of the water will go down because it's getting diluted; right? so, in the 60s you say civil rights in the first thing i think of is african-american civil rights, you know, changing the system. the focus of african americans and many american citizens, the contribution of the media, television, how everything came together to do that made a tectonic shift, change everything. so, when you say, when i hear you say today we must continue
civil rights and you start off and you say, for example student loans; right? here's my thing. when you take on a lot of things , to me sometimes you lose the sissy-- the sissy and your strength is weakened also when you say civil rights, like do you think you can do many things parallel or do you think there is a order-- i don't know if you understand i'm saying. >> i understand and i think the reason we start with student loans is it allows an entire generation to find in their vote-- voice. if john lewis had had to go to a student that after he graduated, remember he missed his graduation because he was in jail-- prison.
there would have been no civil rights act, no voting rights act because he would've had to work. how many progressive reforms are we missing out on because this generation, the next john lewis has to serve that that rather than serve the society? >> correct. [applause]. >> let me put it another way. the march on washington-- we label these things civil rights, but the march called for minimum wage of an equivalent of $15 an hour today. these are fundamental human rights efforts in the language of the civil rights movement have been co-opted. your freedom summer, freedom ride, freedom to vote and now you have the freedom caucus that stands for nothing like the freedom vote or the freedom movement did. it was about so much to sell me people, so i think they didn't focus on just one thing and we can't limit ourselves to read the reason i say we start with student loans is because we need a whole generation. >> exactly, but when i hear you say-- talk about civil rights for everything--
>> thank you for your question. >> congressman lewis, would you say the civil rights movement has merged into the progressive political movement completely and if it is not completely merged into the progressive political movement, what would you say or what would you enumerate are the remaining goals of the civil rights movement that need to be accomplished? >> i think part of the-- part of our politics of trying to catch up with the civil rights movement-- we still have a great distance to travel. because of the supreme court decision on the voting rights act. more than 30 states have changed their voting laws, making it harder and more difficult, not just for people of color, but for young people, senior citizens, my position is open up
the political process and let everyone command. when i spoke at the march on washington on august 28, 1963, when i was 23, i said one person one of votes. today, money is controlling american politics. [applause]. as a great nation is a great people we can do better. we can do much better. make it easier. make it simple. >> you will have to be the last question. so sorry. tweet as an we will answer you on social media. is that cool? >> congressman lewis, you are one of my heroes. in fifth grade you sign my cast when i came to your office and i
quoted you when you said hate is too heavy a burden to bear. could you give us some practical tips on how to put it down? >> well, i hear said in this audience, but i heard doctor king say on one occasion and maybe i can paraphrase him and let him take the hits, he said just love everyone. he said just love the hell out of everyone. love is a better way. just love everyone. why should we go around putting someone down because of the color of their skin? because of their religion, sexual orientation, part of the world they come from. is it possible for us as human beings to come to that point? to emerge, grow.
i was raising chickens and i prayed for some of those chickens. i would teach those chickens, don't fight, you be kind. [laughter] >> i would tell them, listen to me. so, if little creatures can get along, why can't we as humans just emerge and be kind to everyone? [laughter] >> thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] ♪
♪ ♪ ♪ >> book tvs live coverage of the 32nd annual miami book fair continues and you can see representative lewis in there talking with some of the folks who listen to his presentation and we have several more hours of live coverage ahead. coming up next from chapman hall at miami-dade college will be author peggy noonan and she has
put together a collection of her columns called the time of our lives and in fact ms. noonan will also join us later for a call-in program here on our sets in the middle of the fair, but joining us now is ronald go far, he's the editor of this book, after snowdon, privacy, secrecy and security in the information age. you are the editor of this book, but in your own opinion, what has been impact of edward snowden? >> guest: the impact has been extraordinary in the couple of years since his revelations were made public. the world has changed in ways that it would have never happened if he didn't, so whatever you think about him, whether you believe he is an angel or a devil and people have strong feelings about that, you can't deny the fact that courts have now ruled that the procedures he questioned were illegal and unconstitutional.
the white house has had 36, i think, different changes. they issued as a result of his disclosures the european union just passed a resolution honoring him and saying he should not be extradited. many of the member countries had the major social networks, microsoft and yahoo and google etc. have change their practices because it turned out they lost about $40 billion when the disclosures became public and it was seamounts people who used those social media or guaranteed the privacy they thought they had, so there is no question but the world has changed in dramatic ways and i would argue for the better. >> host: you recently had john brennan, cia director, coming out and saying we are being hamstrung, that we can't get this information that we need to prevent terrorists.
>> guest: i mean, the cia and nsa have been called to account for some of these procedures. or position is when national security is endangered they ought to be given if not a carte blanche then discretion to do what they need to do. no one would argue that national security is not crucial and important and especially in dangerous times of terroristic acts like we have seen just this week, that we have to be very dutiful in terms of what we do and have done in our name. anyone who would argue otherwise is foolish as a famous quote of justice robert jackson that the constitution is not a suicide pact. on the other hand, that does not mean that anything goes. we had-- after world war ii, which was considered the great war were we fought against fascism and tens of thousands of
american lives were lost. in the history of those times we have come back to question some of the things we did even in that great war, such as the interment of japanese-american citizens. now, in the wake of 911, we question things like extreme rendition, which is really the kidnapping and torturing of suspects and crimes. so, our book takes the position that national security and constitutional liberty is not an either or proposition, but we have to strike an exquisite balance between assuring both of them at different times and different period, the pendulum will swing as to how much we want to give one interest in competition with another and that will always be changing from time to time, but it's important even at times of great pressure like this to say that
we watch national security protectors to do everything in our name to in short domestic trance tranquility, but that is a mean anything. torture, for example, i don't think most americans would condone that, so we have to ask ourselves, what particularly mr. brennan and others want that they don't already have and that we don't feel is excessive. >> host: from after snowdon in your writings in the history of the united states it could be said about most, if not all places when national security, domestic terrorism and personal provocation clash with people's civil liberties, the former prevail, that is human nature. >> guest: that has been so, historically. we are very attuned to it, particularly this week in the wake of what happened in paris, recently. the citizens there and the
watching world would be naïve to think that at a time like that you don't want the police and the national security interest to take every measure to ensure that the perpetrators of those active terrorism is-- are caught and that the powers that be are doing everything they can to see that it is not reached. , but that does not mean anything goes or we find ourselves not being in a democratic state, so there is always a question of balance and it's easy for national security interests to say is a ticking bomb and if it's a ticking bomb, don't you want us to do everything and of course the answer is yes, but you can't live in a democratic society where everything is done in secret and where there are no controls, no checks and balances , the heart of the democratic government, our democratic government is do we
have a system of checks and balances. what we have seen in the wake of 911 is that the congress was not overseen national security establishment as well as we had hoped. responsible people like senator graham, then former governor of florida, had been very critical of congress feeling in its role to the populace, to be checking what it is that security establishment is doing. similarly, the courts have been totally passive in deferential to the executive, whenever that executive says state secrets are involved, the courts have totally since 1953, backed off. and the examine the validity of those claims. i'm not saying all of those claims are wrong, but some have been excessive and we have now determined in hindsight and is so we need while the executive is doing everything in our name,
we also need to be sure that congress is checking that the rules that they have established have been followed and that's not the view post 11. and that the courts are doing what they should be doing. >> guest: we have chapters in these books that deal with each of these questions and of the goal of this book was not to decide or advocate whether or not edward stone did was a hero or not, but to export the issue that his revelation made public. has the press been active enough? do we protect whistleblowers in appropriate cases? what's the role of leaks in national security cases? what are the role of the courts? which of the role of congress be? what happens with regard to citizens privacy in the digital age where so much has made
public voluntarily, but with the understanding or assumptions that those-- you know, total x-ray so to speak about our lives. those are complicated, but very important issues and we have six very very world-class students of those subjects contributing, i think, valuable chapters to those questions. >> host: who are some of those contributors? >> guest: carter was supposed to be here, but health reasons him from getting to the fair. and longtime editor of a newspaper in mississippi. also, assistant secretary of state in the carter administration, so he has been a both sides of the table as a news man pushing to project information to the public even when he is being pulled by the executive that he should not be doing that and also on official of the government's in the state department meeting to withhold
certain instances and information that can be made public, so he brings a very balanced and probing prospective to the questions of the role of the press. the dean of the berkeley journal -- journalism of school and call must for the "miami herald" ed wasserman writes a chapter on whistleblowers, which i think is that she is the best man on the subject. pointing out in the case of snowdon, for example, he turned his information over to three people, laurel fortress who won on emmy-- not an emmy, but oscar for her documentary on the subject and to to print journalist, one for the "washington post" and one for the guardian who both won pulitzer prizes, but snowdon who
is the source of information has been indicted for espionage. it's a kind of disconnected they are. either this is valuable information that the public has determined was very worthwhile and prize-winning at that or it's criminal, but it cannot be both, i would think. so, those are some of the writers. tom blanton who runs the national security archive in washington knows more about castigation of documents than just about anyone and he has written a very interesting chapter on classification, which gets to one of the points of the balance we have talked about earlier. in the wake of 911, brennan who was then in the white house and others said, we need to gather the biggest haystack of information because we don't know what we don't know and so we don't want to miss anything. we need to have the biggest haystack.
well, critics of that have taken the position that we don't know what we do know because the haystack has been so expanded that the needles of information, to use that metaphor, have been lost. >> host: in fact, in your book you quote the "wall street journal" essay and 75% of all us internet traffic is being vacuumed by the us surveillance program including private medication of both us and foreign citizens and government agencies classify thousands of documents everyday, millions of documents every year, so many documents are now classified that the term has no meaning anymore. that's just a little bit of the taste of after snowdon:privacy, secrecy, and security in the information age" ronald goldfarb is the editor and he also writes the intro in the close.
now, from the miami book fair we will take you back to chapman hall, which is on the campus here in miami dade college and author and "wall street journal" columnist peggy noonan is about to get started. she is being introduced right now most recent book is a collection of columns, time of our lives and she will join us a bit later to do a call him program, so you will be able to talk with peggy noonan as well, but live coverage on book tv on c-span 2. >> i'm happy to introduce peggy noonan. peggy was president ronald reagan speechwriter and no one will ever forget the proud presidents words after the challenger incident does cope with that tragedy. those words were authored by peggy noonan. peggy, as any good journalist, any good writer is extremely quotable. this is one my favorite peggy noonan": don't fall in love
with politicians. they are only disappointment. they can't help it. they just are. she is an author of eight books, five of which were on the "new york times" best-selling list and she writes a weekly column for the "wall street journal". she is a frequent guest on the sunday morning news shows. her latest book, the time of our lives, collective writing for the first time encompasses all of noonan's writings in one volume. in the book she chronicles her career in journalism, the reagan white house and the political arena. we have a special treat, not only will we hear from peggy noonan, but jackie, the anchor for channel six, emmy award-winning anchor will do a question and answer with ms. noonan and i promise you this, it's going to be un- in aligning our, when you will not want to-- you want to pay
attention not forget because these two remarkable individuals have played such an important role that only-- not only in our community, but our nation and it gives me a great pleasure to introduce peggy noonan. [applause]. [applause]. >> big round of applause for peggy noonan. [applause]. >> thank you for being here. it is lunch time and you stayed. thank you. just thank you. >> it's a great book. if you don't have it yet, you should. i finished it in hours. is wonderful. peggy, thank you for coming here to miami and gracing us with your presence. >> thank you for giving me a saturday afternoon. you have a sunday show coming up and you are a great broadcaster
and there are a number of things you could have been doing this pupil saturday afternoon. i am touched and honored that you agreed to do this we kind of begged her to do a q&a and we are very happy that she said yes. >> it's my pleasure, so let's get started because i don't know if you remember this song, native new yorker, and i have been reading so much about you and that song, for whatever reason came to mind because you are a tough cookie. >> i think that is fair enough. in my own way i'm a new yorker, born in brooklyn new york. i was born in brooklyn, new york , big irish public family. irish catholic family. moved to nassau county when i was five or six years old.
lived in northern jersey, came back to new york, but i am a new yorker and i am very flattered that you thought of that song for indeed i'm a native new yorker. >> absolutely. when did you realize you wanted to be a journalist? >> i always realized, jackie, that i was a writer. i actually knew that from childhood. was a great reader and it occurred to me from the time i was the size i love the books. one of the beautiful things about the old coulter in america is that it was so boring that reading books was actually fun. it sort of what you did for fun, so a great router and it occurred to me at some point along the way that someone must be the person who makes up the story in the books. i think i found out that person is called the writer. i have actually, this isn't in the book, but this is actually a
true story. when i was in the third grade, and massapequa, long island, i had a teacher name ms. brown. ms. brown told us when we before thanksgiving with thanksgiving was on everyone's mind, she said go home tonight and you're only homework is to write a poem about thanksgiving. so, i was not a kid who always did her homework, but i found this really kind of an exciting idea and i literally remember writing the poem about things getting and trying to describe how a house smells when thanksgiving food is being made and how nice it is to eat it. i did this whole thing and i handed it in the next day. the day after that the teacher says, oh, before she lets us go for i guess things getting vacation, she said i'm going to give everyone back there papers
and i have graded them. so, i have graded your pollens and she gave the back the pollens of every kid in the class with a grade on top, but me. i immediately thought, wow, i had so much fun writing that poem and i really thought that poem was good. but, i got a feeling that poem was really not good and the teacher has not given it back to me because she's going to call me up to have a private conference and tell me what i have done wrong. that isn't what happens. instead, ms. brown said and now before you will go, class, i want to read the poem i liked best in this class and i thought it was very good and what you to hear it and she read my palm and she gave me a a and i thought after that will come on the writer. it was a beautiful moment in my life to barely know what a writer was and you also know i was a writer, so i didn't know kind of writer i would be in for
the next 15 years i thought well, maybe i will be a reporter writer or maybe a nurse writer. maybe i will be an actress writer. may be i will work in handicraft and write about. i just knew whatever i would be i would be a writer also. >> does ms. brown know she had this influence on you? >> she does not and it was so long ago and far away, only a few years ago did i try to find her and a few other teachers and they were no longer with us. my best friend from those days became a teacher out the high school system out there and she tried to help me find it be people. we could not. >> i can't even imagine because you are considered a pioneer in terms of this industry and i can't imagine going into this business in the 1970s, and then going to the white house in the 1980s. give us a little description of what that was like, especially in the 1970s as a woman a
journalist getting into this industry. >> when i was a young woman in my 20s in the 1970s, and i was part of eight huge wave of women just entering places like cbs, nbc and abc. we were this wave of young women just out of college and we were kind of shocking for the old fellas who were on the desk at cbs. the fellas who were editors and producers. i came to learn in time that those old guys who i thought were like antiques because they were like 57, i thought that was like oldest person in the world and those old guys turned out to be, a bunch of them, the murrow boys. they were the boys taught who essentially along with ed murrow during world war ii had invented broadcast newswriting and were the guys who in the case of state charles collingwood who
literally were broadcasting live in the lead up to world war ii, so i'm walking in with this whole wave of young women out of college. we have already had our first job and now, we have made it to the leaks, cbs news and we were informal, colorful. we all had, as i remember it tight jeans, fried foods, aviator glasses like gloria steinem and various lengths of heron these poor old murrow guys looked at us like we were an invading martian army, but here's a beautiful things they taught us everything they knew. they taught us everything they knew. so, it was a fabulous experience. >> so, they welcome you? >> well, let me put it they were tough old fellas. can't say they welcomed us. that accepted as an and they got to know us and then we were friends. that's sort of how it went. >> you worked with dan rather?
>> i worked with dan rather. i started out at cbs in the newsroom doing writing hourly radio network news reports like the old news route-- roundup at 8:00 a.m. on any cbs station and became an interviewer and then went on to write dan rather's daily radio commentary every day for the three years before he left cbs to work for ronald reagan. >> quickly and i know i'm going ahead before i should, but how did you feel about what happened with him after the whole george w. bush-- fiasco? >> dan rather was a great person to write for. in my experience with him he was completely fair. he was such a great guy. here's what we did together, tender right dance dance five-minute commentary on the news that went up on the cdb--
cbs radio network at about 4:00 p.m. each day, so it's dan being thoughtful about the news. so much of the news in america, even then was political. dan, i perceived to be to the left of me. i was a young woman becoming for serious reasons having pondered a great deal, i was politically conservative, so it was a little bit of an awkward fit. but, it was a great job to be offered. dan had just been made the anchor of the cbs evening news replacing walter cronkite was a huge job and that three network universe of the old days, so to be dan's writer was a fabulous honor and a great thing. but, as i say it was an uncomfortable fit. so, went to him after working for him for a few weeks and i said, you know dan, i feel like i'm not hatchery your voice and views because we come from such a different place.
you politically are liberal and i've politically and conservative. dan listened to me and he did not say that he was politically liberal, but he did admit that i was politically conservative. which made us both laugh. he then said, this is how we will do the show. you will meet with me every morning at 3:00 a.m. and choose the topics. we will discuss how, if it's a right left a thing how the conservatives feel about the topic and how about liberals feel about the topic and then at the end we will conclude and i was to just where i stand and where i come out on the eschew because it's my show and i said, that is completely fair. i can do that and so that's how we did the show. the show had a huge following. conservatives were so surprised to hear their viewpoint fairly and accurately portrayed that
they thought it was a conservative show. liberals were so happy dan was giving the liberal case and then usually taking the side of the liberal case, so they were happy also and it had a huge following. i went off on the dynamics and i forgot what the question was. >> with the whole george w. bush vasco. >> my goodness. here is a moment that few people, i guess, will have had in life and i will never forget it. in 1988, george hw bush was right for presidents. i supported him. i thought he was the right man for the job. i worked for him. i was, during his campaign in 1988, his speechwriter. i didn't join his white house after he won, but i was his speechwriter. when night i am at home and had just had a baby, so i'm doing most of my work at home.
i met home in virginia, watching the news, watching cbs, mild team and suddenly dan rather, my beautiful friend, my former boss is in a fight with george hw bush, my current boss and it was dan rather trying to more or less kind of, i'm afraid i would say a little bit mug george hw bush over that serious issue of his involvement, if any in the iran-contra scandal. the terrible fight night at the funniest feeling in my stomach, i felt like i was a child and mom and dad were fighting upstairs. it felt so personal and felt like to people were fighting who i cared about a lots. so, dan had a bit of an issue with the bushes. in part it may have been a little texas. and was a texas boy in the bushes were texas guys.
dan was on this side, the bushes run the site and it ended the day i don't think there was that much area between them, but i think dan made a bad mistake with his reporting on george w. bush's military history and it was just one of those unfortunate things. >> we have to talk about the reagan years. as you mention, you are a speechwriter for the great communicator himself, ronald reagan. how did that come about? >> it was a fabulous time. looking back on those times i knew it was a fabulous time in history and i knew also, i mean, i could tell that this would be -- it was my sense that a specially if you are irish and loved politics, every generation is a presidents. every generation gets to think that is my guy. from my grandmother, it was ranked in roosevelt. she kept an nra we do our patty
-- part sign. and old crumbling sign on the window of her apartment in brooklyn, long enough so i remember seeing it in the 1950s. for my parents, it was jack kennedy, and for me it was reagan and i knew it was reagan, so i was so excited to work for him. i had gotten a name for myself at cbs as dan's writer. i will make this a short story. only wanted to be was a speech writer for ronald reagan. i had faith in him. i thought his approach to the world was the correct one and the constructive one, so i wanted to do was work for him even though i was working for dan and i also knew me. i couldn't try to be anything when i was, a writer. when i would meet conservatives at cbs, we used to have a lot of shows at cbs on radio and tv, so
every now and then a visiting conservative would come in and be brought in to do a. cbs in those days was so friendly and sweet, everyone knew i was politically conservative or if they asked me i would tell them. cbs was so sweet that when some visiting conservatives from a place like washington would come to pray talkshow the producers and writers would stop if i was in the newsroom but their arm around me and say this is peggy noonan, she's our conservative. [laughter] >> it was cute and sweet. the white house heard about me and it turned out the guy who ran speech writing in the reagan white house had 20 years before then the conservative for cbs news. he had worked a floor above me and had gone on to do other things and wound up working for reagan. he heard about me. he heard that i love dragon. he called me up and said my name is ben elliott and i run the
speech writing at the white house and i heard about you. i know it's not easy to be a conservative in the mainstream media and i know it's not easy to be where you are and i want you to know i admire and keep on keeping on. if you ever come down to washington, i would love-- just come by a knock on my door. i at that point did something totally unlike me. it was deeply proactive and a total complete life. i said i'm coming down to washington tomorrow. [laughter] >> he laughed in my face. he knew it was a lie and said so, gusher coming down tomorrow in the next day i took the eastern shuttle to dc and i just went to see him and i said this is who i am. this is what i do. i'm not kidding when i tell you i would give anything to be a speechwriter for president
reagan. i even have a feeling of destiny about it. i am supposed to do this and this began a process that went many months in which they embedded everything i had ever written and had me do make believe speeches for the president. they made it very hard for me. then they offered me the job. i went through a great show of making believe i had to deliberate about it so i would walk around and say to people g, i have been offered this talk on do you think i should take it and they would say yes, stupid. the went to bill moyers who was in cbs in those days, fabulous man, and i said-- bill, of course had worked for lyndon johnson in his very serious role as an advisor and head of communications and i said bill, and he was now doing commentary for cbs and i said what do you think. he said, peggy, this is not even a question. , you people in the history of the united states have been lucky to work in the white house for a president of the united states?
at most, 20000 possibly. you have to do this and i knew i had to it i did. it was fabulous. >> let's talk about the challenger explosion in the davis-- famous speech now. >> that was an interesting day. that was january, 1985. eighty-five or 86, i am blocking january, 1986. thank you, sir. there is in my book a chapter called lecture and what it is is a lecture that i gave to some students at harvard university a few years ago. they were members of a class on government, traditionally member-- many members of the class going to government. i wanted to tell them as a visiting person invited to speak
to them about-- i wanted to tell them one thing and it was this, you will go into government and after a wild your job will bore you. every day will be the same. it will be the same old same old and then you will start to cut corners of it or get a bit lazy, but let me tell you what government is like. someday something that will happen and it's going to explode in the world were turned upside down and on that day you will have to bring the best that you have within you to that moment and everyone around you will have to bring the best that they have got to meet that moments. indeed, think that is what we did that day. >> i wanted to talk about the poem. >> so sorry. a terrible accident. the challenger had blown up and we all watched it live on to me.
a single thing happen, the white house-- when a tragedy like that occurs everything pops everyone is on the phone and everyone is in a meeting, everyone has to have an allergic to occasionally someone else. i removed myself from all that and thought i know that president will have to speak in the next few hours because this was a huge tragedy. someone will have to start working on that, so i went to my boss and said i will start working he said go. i sit in my office and i start working as anything is exploding around me and at a certain point my bosses little girl, meredith, who for some reason had went to work with him that day, she walked into my office. she was my little friend, seven or eight years old and she looked at the tv and looked at me and said quizzically, the teacher was on the rockets. is the teacher all rights. at that point i remembered, every school child in america
was watching the challenger go up because indeed, there was a schoolteacher, a public school teacher, krista macola who was on that space shuttle. she was there as an astronaut. it was so exciting for the schools of america, syllabus kids were watching it in the assembly spirit everyone was shocked, so it occurred to me that the president will have to do a speech that is aimed at those who are eight years old and those were 18 and those who are 80 without patronizing anyone as we all do when we talk to the young and when we talk to the old. as i work, a woman ran in from the national security council and she had just talked to reagan. she had been in a meeting with him and to have done everything he said, brought it into me and that became the spine of the speech. at the end of the speech, i had
been out of the corner of my eye watching cnn, all of that morning after the blowup. they kept showing over and over again these poor astronauts and their astronaut uniform leaving the holding area and going to the space shuttle itself and as they left in their astronaut uniforms with their big heavy gloves they waved goodbye to the television cameras in this jolly way that said see you in a few hours or a few days. watching that, i thought of something i learned in the seventh grade in massapequa, long island, in english class, a poll on by john gillespie magee junior called high flight about the joy of flying and this was written at a time when most people had not flown. it was the 1930s. john gillespie magee junior became a fighter pilot in world war ii and died in the run-up to
the war. he left behind this beautiful poem and it ended with the words and slipped the early bonds of earth to touch the face of god. it just came to me. i remembered it from seventh grade. i made that the end of the speech, but there was a mystery. i knew that ronald reagan would only use those words if he knew that poem. if that poem met something to him. i hope teen new it and i hoped it meant something, but to be careful the speech ended actually before that paragraph, so it would be easier for the president to kill that paragraph and not say it. we got the speech done. there was no time to ruin it, by which i mean normally presidential speeches are staffed out to hundreds of people who can't help themselves. they think defensively or aggressively, whatever they are
doing a change everything around and sometimes they don't know good from bad, so they make things a little worse or take out something that is good and it leave and something that is dumb, so the staffing process can kill a speech and in this case there was no staffing process. it was more or less me in a small group to the present. we were in a big hurry. i put on the tv like everyone else and i watched reagan and indeed, reagan looked very disappointed, not disappointed he was sad. he was dashed, he looked stricken. he did the speech. it had every thing he wanted and at the end he quoted the john class b magee junior paloma, but he was-- it was the first time i could ever see ronald reagan was really upset and he was upset and part about the teacher, in part about the dreadful tragedy, in part because he understood it
was the height of the cold war and you will have to let the world know a little bit. let the soviet union know this is not a military disaster. there was a lot going on in that speech. reagan left the oval office after that speech feeling that it had not succeeded. in the words of abraham lincoln, he felt it had not scoured. lincoln said a good speech scours and breaks up the earth. reagan did not feel the speech had met the moment. i came to think afterwards that he thought that in part because there is nothing you can say that could meet a moment that was that painful to the american people. i picked up from watching reagan how he felt. i absorbed it and i felt it also, so everyone went home by that nights either feeling very sad about what had happened, the history that had happened and also in reagan's part in my part
feeling we had not met the moment, feeling disappointed in ourselves. however, something changed overnight. people started reacting. that press started reporting. kids started talking. something happened overnight and by the time i got into work the next morning, i got the impression you want to know something we were-- that's okay, the speech did that job. came home, came into the offices and tip o'neill had called me. i am a well-known person now. i was not well known then. tip o'neill was the powerful democratic speaker of the house of representatives. i was in the old executive office building and tip o'neill bothered to find me, call me and thanked me for the work i had done. it was really beautiful.
things like that don't really happen these days, but that happened then. george schultz called me, the president called and was totally honest about how he thought the speech had not worked or had not done what he had hoped to do. but, before that he told me he said how did you know i knew that poem and i said mr. president didn't know you knew the poem. i took a chance and hoped you knew which. he said you want to know how i knew it, indeed, the poem had been written on a plaque outside his daughter patties gradeschool and when he had dropped her off in the morning on the way to work he would stop sometimes and read the plaque. so, that palm was very well known to him and billy had meaning for him and so we worked. that he honestly told me he had not originally thought the speech had succeeded in doing whatever should be done, but came to believe by this morning that it had and i said mr. president what makes you
think it worked and there were a number things, but the most striking one was he said frank sinatra called me. [laughter] >> frank sinatra didn't call me after every speech, let me tell you. it was one of those moments, rarely was reagan reminded that reagan came up in show business and he knew when something landed and when something didn't and he knew who could tell you when something worked and baby, franks and not try was one of his friends who would give it to him straight and tell them if it worked or not. so, that is my challenge her story and fact is all of us there that day, that hectic day, that crazy painful day did the best that we could do and we all made it through. >> that's an interesting story especially the part that frank sinatra validated the speech. >> frank sinatra was telling him
in show business terms, don't worry ronnie, it landed. you know that phrase? did the joke land? it landed. >> what was your relationship with him after that, with the president? >> with the president, after the challenger speech, sometime after that maybe six or eight months later i left. there was kind of a little power collision in the white house where the people i had worked for an who had hired me left and went on to other things and a fellow, a fabulously colorful man named don regan came into the chief of staff for reagan and i have great affection for him, but as a chief of staff he didn't work and the people he brought in whom i dubbed the mice did not work well with speechwriting and i just thought, my work here is done. however, at the end, a beautiful thing happened.
i went home, i had a baby. reagan, about three or four months before he left the white house in january of 89, asked me , this felt like the greatest honor, he asked me to come in and work with him on his farewell address. so, i got to work for a few weeks with a big successful american president on the meaning of his presidency. we worked on it very well and i worked very hard on it and i think reagan would say that is a speech of his that no one talks about, but was very important to ronald reagan and contained a lot of advice for the future. >> we only have a few minutes left before we open it up to questions in the audience, but there is a section on politics in the book as well and i love this section. i want you to give what you write about in terms of hillary
clinton in your opinion on hillary. >> my goodness. i found as i went through my work i could isolate various themes and put them in various chapters that have just a ball doing it. one of the chapters is called, people i miss and i will get to your question in a minute, but it pleases me, it's called people i miss. it's about people who i was lucky to know who i thought made a great contribution, like joan rivers and tim russert, jackie onassis what did you know, but had met and observed her from afar. tennessee williams who worked with the great margaret thatcher. there is a chapter about political disputes i have been involved in, they political arguments. i criticize someone, they criticize back and we are all a war. this, i consider to be sometimes
painful, but also part of the fun of talking about politics and real-time in america. with mrs. clinton, i think, and blocking a little bit about how much i have about mrs. clinton in the book. i know it's plenty, but i think of a lot of it revolves around the 2008 election year when she ran against this young guy no one had ever heard of in 2007, named barack obama. obama, the insurgent goes up against fleury clinton and her fabulously funded well oiled machine. what happened between the two was an epic upending event. i never saw a political demolish it like what obama did to hillary clinton, so there is plenty about mrs. clinton and plenty about mr. clinton also. >> when you look back, your time
with ronald reagan, which is obviously one of the highlights, do you see any reagan type qualities in that nomination now, for the presidential election? .. a really fair question, there are nominees on the product republican side and democrat side and i tell you how i look at it. i never see john f. kennedy and qualities in candidates running for president. none of them ever reminded me of fdr. none of them ever reminded me of a reagan and for that matter lincoln. i see candidates as men and women responding to and living in very much in their time. i beg your pardon, i've been talking to much past few days, they respond to and live in very much their time, i always hope for the
they will be great. i always hope that 20 years from now we will say something like it will be the year by 2040 or whatever it will be. let's say it's 2040. i hope that we look back and say of some candidates for president but is he a marco rubio? [laughter] is she a hillary clinton? so the greatness comes in real time but is only judged in rich respect, and i just never compare anybody can politics to anybody that came before them. i don't find it helpful or terrifying -- clarifying. >> you do have a quote that says do not walk through time without leaving word worthy evidence of stored passage. do you feel that you have left an impact >> my goodness, with that
beautiful quote was said i went to the mass in which pope john john xxiii was declared a saint by the catholic church and that indeed is a quote that i saw on the little pamphlet on the street do not go through life for time. do not go through time without leaving worthy evidence of your passage that is written on an envelope taped to my door at home in my office. >> i will admit one of the reasons i needed that an epigraph of the book is that i think writers who are serious about it and who are trying to be truthful, their efforts are
an attempt to leave worthy evidence of their passage that applies to very many professionals and their efforts. was i trying to do that, yes and i think it is good advice, i do and that is why it is taped to the door in my office. >> i'm sure you have questions. let's get right to it. [applause] >> in your column in "the wall street journal," you analyzed what a leader should have in this post paris world and you and your column by saying that the next president should have a lot of confidence and that then there's the quantity that you feel perhaps maybe the current president is lacking.
given the candidates that are running into the fact that there's one particular person whose name is donald trump seems to be the one candidate who is campaigning all about confidence and how he's confident he can fix everything in the world. could you comment on what you think a donald trump president might be like and what it be horrible, acceptable or something new and enlightening >> you may answer the question while donald trump be the republican nominee. in the florida primary, what you do with regards to marco rubio, donald trump, ted cruz, that's going to be significant in the choosing of the republican nominee. look, i think trump is the result of many things.
one of the things he is the result of in my view is the american people, certainly a lot of republicans that the american people have looked at the past frustrating painful difficult 15 years and they thought that if we have for 15 years from washington for in the a middle east plug pulled by a feeble recovery come indications on the education etc., all of them, you know what they are the culture more bizarre. everything seeming to get worse worse, the past 15 years who gave us the world? i know, the most credentialed and experienced accomplished political figures in america. so what i think republicans are especially during this year is doing this year is saying to themselves without articulating it i think we are going to have
to go outside the political world and judge the experienced accomplishments background and history of others, just brought in broadened the indicators of what you're looking for. a trump benefits from that and so does ben carson. he is a nero surgeon and in some respects so i think trump who has a kind of natural political stance understood the moment we were in and moved forward. i don't know what is going to to happen there. i don't always know what to make of his confidence. i will end with this because i've been out on a book tour i get asked that ronald reagan a lot in a very specific way.
people say ronald reagan was so successful because he was optimistic. he was such an optimist wasn't his leadership optimistic, i miss his optimism and i will say to people actually, what you missed wasn't optimism and he wasn't always optimistic. this is a guy that sometimes took a stern look at the history of man and what it might produce. he wasn't a man that had optimism. he was a man but have confidence he had confidence in himself and he was confident in you the american people as he explained his case and he had confidence in the american system that could be made to work. the executive agencies that work so could work so this is a man that had confidence. useful his confidence and it
allowed you to feel optimistic. that's what was going on. there are many candidates that feel a personal confidence. we'll see if they get to do the rest of the formula. >> i know you spent a lot of time speaking about it. could you ever attend a speech and what you have written that same speech if george bush had to give it? so that's the specific part and the underlining part as to what extent when you are writing a speech as a speechwriter for candidate or ceo or whoever, do you have to take into consideration that thought kept going through your mind does resonate with the speakers.
you may think the person you are writing for is going to respond very much and relate very much to something specific that you put in and that's fine. you may be right and it will turn out to be just great and you may be wrong. if the president come if that is who you work for will simply remove it so it doesn't matter so i always tell the young speechwriters throw your best stuff, do your best to start if they don't like it they would take it out. for the challenger speech be different? if it has been with george h. w. bush, i can tell you of course yes because george h. w. bush comments in the oval office before the speech would have been recorded by the same person
who recorded ronald reagan but they would have been different thoughts because he was a different man so it would have been a different speech. but in a way, the -- in a way i guess i just answered that but it's also hard to answer and then attempted to help lyndon johnson when johnson was president for a little while. a are they for jfk and lbj different and i think that his answer, he was a friend of mine and i knew him well i cared about care about him a lot. i think that his answer would be yes because lbj wasn't jfk. they were just different human beings. but his answer would also be that at the end of the day, ted would have had some similarities. so it's a complicated little dance. yes sir we have time for one more question. i'm sorry. kde is going to be signing books.
>> we appreciate you being here. as someone who spent several years working with president ronald reagan to use output to rise to the occasion of the national crisis, how would you assess looking at turkey after the terrorist attacks how do you assess his performance in terms of his comments following the terrorist attacks? spin it very often. i mean i don't see the world 100% the way barack obama does, so very often i feel different for him. i'm in conflict with his thoughts. but after. i felt disheartened by him. i felt he had a kind of low. in his celebrated news conference in which he was challenged quite wonderfully in my view by cnn jim acosta was at
mr. president, isis has done this, that, they've now done this, they are here, many americans are feeling frustration and thinking why can't we get the bastards? and the president seemed in response to be the sort of intellectually weary and frustrated that people don't understand the fabulousness of his strategy for which which he keeps explaining and don't you get it. he was defensive. he wasn't someone who could explain to you -- there's a great absence when it comes to obama and absence to veto -- and i exist.
not just with just what your strategy supposedly is but how should we think about it. what kind of threat is it and how should we be preparing to meet the threat? he doesn't speak about those which makes you wonder is he not speaking because he doesn't need to hear from him or is he not speaking because he doesn't actually want to share his thoughts because he thinks they will be unpopular but which makes everybody on easy so we are already on easy enough with these messy horrible things, and now there's this president is acting less like a president than then and absence it does an absence it does no good. it was very bad leadership. >> we are going to have to leave it at that. >> ladies and gentlemen, peggy noonan. thank you. [applause]
[inaudible conversations] >> peggy noonan will be with us here in miami a little bit later today. she will be taking your calls that right now on the set here on the campus of miami-dade college's "washington post" reporter a pulitzer prize winner whose most recent book is called black flags the rights of isis. here's what the cover looks like. what happened in 1999 that led to the rise to the creation of isis? >> there is a character in the
tail and using detail and you see the picture on the cover of the name is zarqawi some remember from the iraq insurgency if you saw the movie american sniper this is the one that the americans were after in the middle of 2000 that have gone after trouble but he became a problem because he got out of jail early in 1995 as an amnesty. he was serving a prison sentence and was supposed to be there as a relatively old man that ends up getting sprung him his entire year group. they leave jordan, head to afghanistan and this is the beginning point of the long complicated story that leads to crisis and where we are today. >> who was zarqawi for 1999? spin a probably the most unbreakable with the least likely person you could imagine to lead a terrorist movement. he started out as a nobody come a high school dropout, criminal, he had tattoos, not religious at all, lived in jordan which is a fairly moderate country and a middle-class home that he ends up getting radicalized by going
off to fight and goes to afghanistan and that was the beginning of his journey in he comes up with some really crazy ideas even by the standards wanting to do very violent things and this is the sort of personality or isis later evolved. >> when did he die? >> 2006. it took two years of hunting to be able to track him down and in the meantime he built this really incredibly successful insurgency and as we all remember nearly drove us out of iraq because of all the killings and creating the civil war which he deliberately tried to set off but we ended up getting the number and got good intelligence in the track him down to a house and dropped a couple missiles on his hideout and told him in 2006. >> what was the turning point in his career? >> he had a couple of lucky breaks but the big one was the fact that our own government in 2003 made him famous.
he was somebody that is kind of a dead ended his career he had a small terrorist group nobody would have heard of no doubt what the u.s. administration decided to make him the poster child for the connection between saddam hussein and al qaeda. it turned out not to be true but by making it the case and by actually putting his picture in front of the council in 2003 we made him a hero and gave him a platform which he sucks sought to have to fight americans. >> we are going to put the phone numbers of because we want to hear from you on the issue of isis and terrorism today. the phone numbers are going to be on the screen. 202, seventh or eighth grade from 8200. 748-8201 if you live in a mountain and pacific time zones. there are other ways of getting a hold of us if you can't get through on the phone line. number one, send a text message and this is for text messages only not for phone calls.
(202)717-9684. and if you would include your name and first name and your city just so we can get an idea of who you are that would be great and there are other ways as well. @booktv is our twitter handle and facebook.com/booktv can leave a comment under the miami book fair in case you want to get through that way. but it's isis, it's it's islamic state, i'll qaeda, iraq. what is the art and the sequence of all these names have all these different organizations? >> it all comes from the same tree which is the movement that rose from the afghan civil war if your if you driven but the 19 of these arab muslims around the world went to fight the communists and from that insurgency we ended up getting a group of men who felt the first of all they were successful but
they defeated a superpower and they had this kind of global vision of being able to take control to restore the muslim world to this caliphate that once existed hundreds of years ago said that is where it started and then we have seen so many variations, some were quite distinct. but they all come from the same family. >> now what is the role of jordan and how has jordan figured into all of that lack >> it's an irritant because like many of the other countries in the modern middle east it did in texas 20 to 20 220 years ago. it was created by the colonial powers at the end of world war i the british and french took a bath and carved it out and creative places that didn't exist like jordan like part of the author then tiger and by creating these artificial boundaries, they've sort of getting a reason to push back so a lot of their attention has
been the local governments with the jordanians, and of course israel being the number one they like to eradicate the country altogether. >> you open the book with the execution of a woman in jordan. who was she? >> she's someone most of us in america we've heard about her before, long time ago because actually an early version of the paris attack that took place in 2005 in jordan where some of zarqawi's people were sent over to the country not in war and went to hotels and blew them up with suicide bombers in a single night. one survived apparently because the vast didn't go off and she was this woman who ends up getting arrested, interrogated, the jordanians and americans are hopeful she will lead them to zarqawi but she isn't able to do that and goes to prison for a number of years and then it's completely forgotten about until the more recent chapter when the
isis fighters captured a jordanian pilot and they had a bargaining type to swap one prisoner for another and she's the one they wanted to make this exchange for this jordanian pilot for this woman who had been imprisoned for 15 years. >> what's been the effect of the brutality brutality and some of the things that isis and the jihad is to have done? >> it's shocking to us when we see these images and even drowning the sandstone in the. is from another time. it doesn't feel like it is a human reaction of a human being that a human being can do but for them it's actually effective because first of all you intimidate and you fighting the enemies and also excite the base, the ones that are hard-core geologists that they they want to they wanted their side is candy for them it's kind of fuel for the fire. >> can you draw the line between 1999, the invasion of iraq and what is happening today?
are they related? >> absolutely. and we wouldn't have had isis i'm very convinced this is a personality thought process on an ideology around which isis today models it's also if you can see these being linked together from babies to the iraq he invasion to all the missteps and mistakes along the way and then coming of the moments when the isis was essentially finished and didn't have any territory but here comes the springs and this becomes a new call to arms for these radicals and that's how isis came to be as we know it today. >> in your view have we let our allies down in the middle east? >> was certainly disappointed a lot of them but i am thinking mostly of jordan which is a small country of 6 million people with isis weatherly on
two sides of the border and also in iraq with a sunni population that there's some inside jordan that would be sympathetic to isis and they've asked us repeatedly to give them more help and hope the refugee population of half a million refugees that are in jordan today and we see the problems in europe and jordan many times beyond that had to struggle to even get basic resources to meet" these people not to mention it to be part of the coalition. and often they don't have the kind of smart weapons and things they should have to fight the enemy. >> you spend quite a bit of time and black in black flags the rise of isis talking about and what the former u.s. ambassador to syria. you are on with the author talking to isis and terrorism. >> caller: thank you for taking my call.
why hasn't the internet and turned off in these countries, there are four ways a signal comes into a country a land cable, ocean cable or satellite. it seems to me when i look at the leaders and how absolutely stupid piece people are both the bush obama administration fighting this war are dealing with these psychos that you allow them to communicate with one another and allow them to reach out to the world and the 4% of the population that's completely insane in any given society and you let them stay calm and be with us and you can kill and maim and be as crazy as you want to be angry about about adobe about adobe on the internet -- >> host: thank you. >> guest: you hit on a very good question and it's been frustrating to all of us that watched this udall. in the beginning there was sort of the freedom of access argument being made so you see
isis using twitter and facebook and and instant ram and they would do things like something could change accounts they were pretty savvy about using the social media but eventually got better at blocking them so they turn to other kinds of social media. right now a lot of the wireless network is just about out of southern turkey surveyor to communicate in the rest of the broken world in a very powerful way and we managed to not find a way to block them. i think going forward to try to find a way to defeat them is that it has to be fundamental to any strategy to prevent them from spreading this garbage around the world and incite some of their followers. >> host: a reminder if you want to send any message you may do that as well. don't call the number it is just for texting, we have a call from salt lake city. you are on book tv.
>> caller: thank you so much. i just wonder a couple of points. first, i'm not referring to your guest but in general, it's very difficult when people try to explain things they don't understand. we see all the time all these people be heading. where does that come from? these people, wherever they are, all these people have basic islamic tenets. people come out and watch the government be hitting people in public squares and because of
theft. the united states called for [inaudible] >> host: we are going to have to leave it at number one. thank you. why don't we committed into the first. >> guest: he makes good points. first of all it is true the fundamental theology that sort of motivates isis and the religious core is close to islam which came out of saudi arabia in the 18th century and it is containing the harsh bbc and interpretations that isis champions today and that is with so many of these taking place a year ago the western world was horrified and it wasn't that surprising or unusual to the gulf countries because they do live with this and it is counted by the practice and the
traditions of the early muslim leaders. i think what they've managed to do is go off the reservation to take what is a fairly harsh and obscure view of islam and just ignore the practices and the norms when they want to when they want to burn a person alive and that is against the koran is against burning another human being and yet they do it anyway and they manage to find a way to justify. so they are taking some of these issues and twisting it and making it even more violent. >> host: this is from ron in honolulu. they have no armored battalion. why are they an ongoing threat, why is there no well in the west to destroy destroy them? >> guest: that's a good question and we talk about these no-fly zones and it's catching a way because isis doesn't have a navy. they do have quite a lot of equipment and weapons into a lot of money but they don't have these weapons systems it yet
haven't been able to push them out and it's been months of airstrikes and cool ocean and now 60 nations in it and so what is striking to me is first of all when they take over the territory there is no resistance. we haven't seen any and are awakening to fight them because the ability to control the local provinces and to exert the will of the territory where they exist is that nobody challenges it and so i'm told there is a way to deny them their safe haven on top there is a way to sort of counter them in the heartland it's going to be possible to defeat this ideology. >> overland park texas, go ahead. >> i love your show. my curiosity stems from the extension of what is called the extension of jihad and how that
is spreading globally but more importantly, how is the current geopolitical environment shaping up? we have powerbooks now when the russians coming in support of the regime and the alliance that is moving towards the regime against saudi arabia and other interests and what is the role of saudi arabia and have they been part of this that is increasingly being spread globally throughout africa and -- >> host: we are going to get him to enter that in answer that in a second but how long have you been following this story of the development in this area?
>> guest: i used to teach at the defense language institute on a dalia basis of interacting for the last six and a half years i spent six and a half years moderating at the defense language institute, so i was dealing with people that were coming and coming in the community and the community back and forth from afghanistan and iraq by kansas city to chicago on a dalia basis. >> guest: think user to do just covet us could have been an amazing experience but the question that's complicated is the fact that the geopolitical blocks or so significant and opposed to one another it is the hardest part of that result in the conflict is the fact that you do have russians and iranians on one side if so how do you possibly bring them together and come up with a new government that would be acceptable to both sides or have a resolution that seems to be
impossible to do up until now. the one thing that is hopeful at this moment is the fact that you do have these interests talking to each other and the meetings under way this very weekend through the governments are trying to find a way to find concerted ways to have conservative leverage against isis in a way that hasn't existed before and all these people are in the room right now talking so if they can figure out a way to unite at least on common goals like getting rid of isis may be something can come out of it but i don't think we are there yet. >> host: you say the right people in the right room talking etc.. this is a text message from the 718 area code. over the last decade, isis and al qaeda have continued to grow. in all reality cannot ever be truly contained or eliminated? >> guest: that is a good question because there's two things going on simultaneously.
one is an effort finally to try to drive them out of their heartland, to try to end this sort of de facto state that has developed. but even if you succeed at doing that and that is a complicated challenge so the force is out of the barn in the sense that this ideology is now existing in multiple states at least 12 that we know of that have isis cells active and communicating with the branch to shut them down in one place does that mean they are going to go to another and that is the challenge of our lifetime. >> host: west hartford connecticut, you are on every of here's the most recent book black flags the rise of isis. >> caller: yes, hello. i tuned in a little bit late so you may have discussed this word you may not have. let me get right to the question. i want to go from 15 years ago today almost exactly today about november, 2000 turnout to briefly ask you a question about
where this all began and goes back to the election of 2000 between george w. bush and al gore. if al gore had won that election he would have probably had the afghanistan war because of 9/11 which added the following september, 2001 but would not have invaded iraq. so my point is isn't it true that because of the republicans and george w. bush and i'm saying this as a lovable progressive democrat myself george w. bush invasion in iraq as horrible a dictator saddam hussein was at least having saddam hussein in iraq kept it as a stable country without isis emerging. so if the war have been prevented if george w. bush and dick cheney hadn't invaded iraq or al gore had won in november of 2000 -- >> host: i think we got the point. that is bill in west hartford connecticut. >> guest: that is a good question and as a journalist i
try to avoid putting political labels but the book argues that i strongly believe that the invasion was the original sin not just the invasion itself but gave it to this cause that they've been looking for particularly zarqawi who predicted the fight would take place and was ready for the americans when they arrived in 2003 but also the own mission of not having security apparatus in place, nothing to stand in the path he took out his party with anybody that is a professional insight of iraq in the early 2000's had a member dismantling the armed forces so you have overnight a country with a huge security vacuum and very angry disenfranchised elite population that was happy to help the insurgents coming in. there's plenty that would have thought the americans anyway but he was able to know that this religious extremism with this discontent and bring the two together and it turned out to be a very powerful brew and those people that started the group
and 2004, 2006, that is isis today with the same ideology and some of the same individuals and even those like abdul with french terrorists, he cut his teeth in the early stage of the insurgency so this is all very relevant to the situation that we have today. >> host: randy in louisiana, we have a couple of minutes left. >> caller: yes, i can remember [inaudible] can you touch upon that? >> guest: that was an al qaeda attack and i think that it reflected in a way that difference between al qaeda and the folks that we see today. so i'll qaeda picked a strategic target in a highly symbolic one and going after the aircraft carrier with a navy ship rather into putting a big hole in it but al qaeda looks very powerful
and it took us as you remember quite we remember quite a long time to deal with that. i sits on the other hand wasn't interested because they've are more interested in going after civilians off target and that why you saw what you saw in paris, just going after innocent people getting their dalia business but it's not the first time they've done it. they did it for years when people in mosques and schools, showing no mercy come even as once, muslim children being legitimate targets that's why they are different from al qaeda. >> host: staten island, you are the last word, go ahead. >> caller: yes, sir. -- my question is from the beginning of the civil war in serious debate for syria the soldiers have been fighting
these people including all of the other terrorists and the reason for the push for why is it that we want to human needs the terrorists west of the united states for not helping us out to defeat terrorism? >> guest: to understand the question -- >> host: he is gone at this point. you can take that question or -- >> guest: the war and knowing how to deal with it was the challenge that historians will find fault with the obama administration and its inability to perceive is difficult in this case everybody assumed that he would be gone fairly quickly. mubarak was very powerful around
him and everyone assumed he would go the same way and we didn't anticipate that this would become not just a civil war the stalemate that would develop and we look at how much leverage we give one side versus another and whether he would have been in power to begin with. all those are good questions to speculate that there is no question that we failed to anticipate what a challenge that would be and it didn't really help us get to the situation that we are right now. >> host: the rise of isis, that's a prize-winning off tobacco reporter joby is the author. you will see panels on cuba and have the chance to talk with peggy noonan. up next we will talk with judith miller. here's the book of the story. you know what this is about. she will be here in just a minute. but recently, we covered on
booktv and event and we want to show you part of that before she joins us here on the set. >> what was striking to me is when i went back and i interviewed english intelligence and british intelligence and israeli intelligence and german intelligence is whether or not you want to go to war, whether or not the countries policymakers wanted to go to war. they were not deeply divided about the system. what they disagreed about is whether or not that was a sufficient cause to go to war and people of goodwill in the second part without challenging them fairly. i think there's a lot of free writing and history about what americans were actually told. before the papers wrote a very good article, americans already
knew that the two -- there was a debate in the intelligence committee about the two and a new that's not from the klatch either from michael gordon and "the new york times." so, five days after, we wrote the story and we learned about the debate and we wrote that story and put it in "the new york times" and yet i would have liked that story to have been on the front page but it wasn't. so, you know i think it's -- i know if you are involved in that debate at the time you feel strongly and you might have felt pressure but all people like me had to go on were what we could get at that moment and then subsequently, the findings of these different panels getting
it wrong was just as bad. >> like the famous case involving the curveball with the german intelligence saying don't trust this guy. >> they were not all saying that and i'm not going to drag all the rest of you. but that is not accurate. people have different memories. the analyst said -- i think it's important. there hasn't been a classified report where is the article about the classified.
they were convinced that the analysts that i talked to and i was there a parting on them as they were during the measurements taking the measurements convinced that these were not for biological production. we wrote the first story. we wrote about and put it up and then i went back to iraq in june to talk to people. he was still in burden as david
kelly who was one of the people who told me the cia got it wrong as well as i'm standing here he got it wrong. this staff when i can talk about the mistakes i made i think it's really important to look at the stake that we make and the intelligence community makes so we can understand how to make them.
that's when we fall into convenient patterns of the thoughts that fit your ideological preference for something you want to believe. >> that was a recent appearance by judith miller formerly of "the new york times" talking about her new book the story of the reporter's journey and ms. miller now joins us in miami. this is a complicated story. in your book you lay out in defense and outlined in the first couple of pages to let everybody know. how long have you been covering the middle east? >> since 1971 when i was a student i went to jerusalem and fell in love with the middle east and i decided i had to learn more about it and went as a student to egypt, jordan, etc.
and it was instant and it was out of my childhood bible class. wise and of course being new to the middle east, i thought this isn't so hard to settle. just each person gives a little and we divide jerusalem and no problem here. the american naïveté but i kept going back and learning how complicated it was and now i have fewer solutions in only more questions. >> host: what was your life like in 2002? >> guest: while it was -- i was in deep mourning. i watched the trade towers come down. i live downtown right near there. i have seen had seen my friends pushed out of their homes. we had all been in new york lost
people and friends. i kept saying and asking myself if only we had done our part sooner if only we had written about al qaeda sooner i was filled with remorse about everything we haven't done. it was such a frantic period i didn't have time to think or to grieve. we were just busy trying to figure out who did this and why did they do it, who was to blame and how do we fix what went wrong? that's what i was doing in 2002. >> host: let's move forward to since we don't have much time and we do want to workout calls and text messages as well before you have to leave. what did you write -- what
happened, where is scooter libby involved in this and why did you go to jail? >> guest: i why he went to jail to protect a source with the vice president's chief of staff for a story i never wrote about a conversation that turned out he hadn't had. the reason i wrote this book is that i was pilloried for having gotten things wrong that i really think i didn't get from, the intelligence was wrong. and that's not a copout because i made my share of mistakes but i was also praised for doing something that turned out wasn't so good which was to give testimony that turned out to be wrong. and if i have a regret and the reason i wrote this story i wrote a story tuesday journalism is complicated. we are always going to get things wrong but the sin of our profession is not going back to look at what you did wrong and
to try to get it right. and that's what i've done in this book. i wanted to tell the story of scooter libby and how an interview i had with him and with someone else and why i went to jail because not because i'm courageous, i'm not but because i felt i had no choice. no one would talk to the journalist. and the people would inform the american people and tell them things the government doesn't want them to know. so that wasn't courageous. what was was for was for ages is figuring out that i have made a terrible mistake that had been unfair to mr. libby. on the basis along the way it was the most difficult book that i've ever written and i hope it is a fun book in part because i'm not used to writing -- i'm more comfortable writing about you and writing about other
people to be >> host: today sitting here in 2015 and your personal view, was the invasion of iraq -- hispanic turnout be a disaster but the decision to invade is more complicated and that's what i try to look at. let's look back after 9/11 if you were were president of the united states, republican or democrat and you had been told by your intelligence agencies with high confidence all 16 of them that they be made it was still being hidden away by a man who had against his own people broken every pledge that he had made and violated the 17 resolutions, killed the kurds in a genocidal fashion and conducted terrorism against westerners invaded the neighbor would you take a chance that that material would be passed
along to enemies of the united states? i don't fault george bush for the decisions he made i fault him for the way that he conducted the war ended and i congratulate him for the equally tough and surprising decision he made to do the surge when all of his advisers or most of them were opposed to it. he thought that he was the right thing to do and it turned out to stabilize the country. we can argue about the rest. >> host: judith miller is the guest. we've all heard the story. we are going to start with a call from marjorie and west virginia. you are on the air. please go ahead. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. one of the things -- i have watched you be interviewed a few times on c-span and you don't seem to think that you were manipulated by dick cheney and many of us out here didn't believe that you were and the reason i believe you were in it.
it is because the timing of your article in the paper and how we seem to be so well coordinated with condoleezza rice, dick cheney and others appearing on the sunday morning news talk shows at the same time. so my question is this. when you have an opportunity to do a feature story about going to war had you thought about what you he would do to avoid the kind of controversy you count your self in because i do believe that you have had so much credibility that it occurred to me -- >> it's a really good question but let me just tell you i have not met george bush to this day and i didn't even meet dick cheney until after he office he
gave me an interview. the people who gave me this information did not give it to me. michael gordon and i ended up two of us wrote that very controversial story about aluminum tubes. we had to pull it out of people. we had to stitch the story together and confront the administration with what we knew. and only after we did that did they agree to talk about what they considered a top secret program that the administration didn't want to talk to us about. i think from their standpoint once they realized he had the story, they were going to spend it and make the best of it but what i want to do in this book is to tell people how that story came about so we understand more about my business and how we do it. are you going to be used, yes and i'm sorry if it raises questions about people's minds about my intentions, but my intentions were simply too --
and michael gordon and by the way most of my stories were written with the people at the time. we wanted to tell the american people what the president was reading and hearing that was guiding his decision on the war or not. but yes. did they spend it and use it once we broke the story, yes they did so i understand why you feel when you do and thank you for asking the question. >> host: this is a text from area code 205. was dick cheney dishonest about weapons of mass destruction, yes or no? >> guest: i think he put the worst possible spin on the information he had. but the information he was getting was just really terrifying. i counted him before when he was the secretary defense and before his health problems and his heart attacks. i think 9/11 -- he writes about
this in his book and we talk about it afterwards, it was a shock to him and he was absolutely determined that the next 9/11 wasn't going to be one with wmd and he was determined to go to war. so did he spend the information in the hardest way possible? as he did. was he lining i lying i think that is a question he has to answer. i only know that i didn't get the information from him i got it from the men and women who had never lied to me. they were the analysts who were doing the assessment and more than any people they feel a sense of sadness and tragedy about what happened. >> host: here is the book. in north port florida you are on the air with judith miller. >> guest: thank you for taking my call. i have a couple of questions. during the 1980s between iraq
and iran committed into saddam hussein used limited chemical weapons against iran coming into to go back a few years earlier than that committed in the israeli air force plan a great mission and take out a nuclear development site right outside of baghdad? and did anyone ever check -- check. for the weapons, could be also be taken over the border and then didn't he use them recently is this all plausible and if you're the president of the united states -- >> host: that is a lot. we are going to leave it there. thank you. judith miller. >> guest: let me >> guest: let me just say absolutely. the israelis dead bomb the iraq he nuclear facility and they destroyed it and in so doing they destroyed the nuclear program which was never able to get up and running again although saddam hussein tried.
and guess the reason i felt so strongly about wmd in iraq is that i had covered the genocide against the kurds. they use the use of the chemical weapons against his own people. i had stood on the side of the mass graves and watched bodies be unearthed, women, children, frozen after the gas tax. that's at least what we thought it was. i knew he was willing to use this material and wouldn't hesitate to use against us if he had the opportunity. so there was every reason for a president to believe that he had wmd and was willing to use it. charles, who was -- wrote an extraordinary record kind of definitive report on what happened in the wmd says that the reports on syria that the chemical and biological he believes that as an open question he was never actually
able to verify one way or another but this i will say readers of "the new york times" learned in september 2014 iraqis and american soldiers were being sickened by the weapons that they were still encountering from the age-old program that saddam hussein had either forgotten about or didn't know where they were hidden or continued lying about. so, if this story is very complicated, and i'm sure ten years from now we are still going to be asking questions about it. >> host: and finally, chris from silver spring maryland sends in this text. it do for our baptist iraq he and security and military officers combining with sunni elements comprise the nicest leadership today? >> guest: joby who you just have on the show, his book i'm looking forward to reading, isis is the son of al qaeda and its
lethal especially because it has saddam hussein's intelligence operatives and material security people advising them, organizing them, running their finance. this is an extraordinarily serious group. a group that doesn't hesitate to present the christians and those who disagree with them. the head of people and even worse than that, put on camera what they do. they boast about it as recruiting vehicles today i don't know a lot about true evil. but i do know that they are it and that has to be stopped and stopping them from getting their hands on chemical and biological weapons and weapons of mass destruction is surely the sites that we have to make as members of hopefully a civilized world.
>> host: judith miller praised in both "the new york times" book review and the new yorker published by simon and schuster. as we continue our coverage here in miami, we are going to go back to chapman hall on the campus of miami-dade college. this is where the next panelists -- all the panel on cuba. you are going to hear from five different authors talking about their experience with cuba as you can see the stage is set. we've gotten a warning they are about to start. the audience is filling up. .. right now. we're going to talk with david reed right later. his book on world hunger, john beauchamp will be talking about his book and chapman hall as well. the new book out on george hw
bush. ted koppel will be in the room, peggy noonan will be taking your calls in the day finishes with brian dory and actor paul giamatti and david strengthen. they'll be talking about brian dory's book, the theater of war. and that's the finale from the book festival. if you want to follow us, and get schedule updates, behind-the-scenes pictures in that type of thing, you can follow us on twitter. you can also follow us on facebook at facebook.com. /book tv and the full schedule of our days coverage is available on a website at book tv.org, so let's go up to check now with the panel on cuba about to begin. ♪ ♪
this year, well, actually first if you like to consider becoming a friend of the fair, you are in the correct building. downstairs and 310411, you're chervil contribution can support this wonderful book fair this year and in the future, so if you would like to become a friend of the fair, please do so downstairs and we also have a way to support the fair using your technology. if you like to text book two: 501501, to donate $10, you can do so now. i say you can do so now because in a moment i will ask you to turn off your technology. if you'd like to make a donation, please turn on your technology and do so now. we are also grateful to our sponsors including the knight foundation, and the bachelor foundation and summing more you see listed on the signs across the fair. miami book fair is a year-long
endeavor. today is not the only day and tomorrow is not the last day of the book feyerick, so please attend our event all year after the discussion today, there will be a question and answer time and down the hall and around the corner there will be a signing session. it's time for me now to ask you to turn off your technology, silence your phones unless you are still donating and then turn off your technology and i will ask lydia martin to come up and issued use our guest. lidia. [applause]. >> hello, happy miami book fair, everyone. i am lydia martin, a call mess with the "miami herald" and i'm honored to introduce this amazing panel today. roosa behar who will be the moderator today is a macarthur award-winning writer and an apologist for her work about the search for home in our global era. she was born in havana, cuba,
and treacly visits and writes about her native island and among her books, she is the author of the ball liberal observer, anthropology that richer heart, an island called home, returning to jewish cuba and traveling heavy, a memoir in between journeys. she's editor of the anthropology bridges to cuba, which will be reissued this year with a 20th anniversary edition and her poetry is included in the whole island, six decades of the cuban poetry and several handmade books designed by cuban book artist. richard is the youngest first latino immigrant and gay person to serve in such a role. born in madrid, to cuban terrance and raised in miami, the negotiation of cultural identity and place characterizes body of work. he is the author of two memoirs,
the prince, a miami childhood, which explores his coming-of-age and his attempts to understand his place in america while grappling with his sexual identity. for all of us, when today in an inaugural poets journey and three award winning poetry collections looking for the motel, directions to the beach of the dead and city of 100 fires. also a children's book of his presidential inaugural poem, when today illustrated by dave filkins. pulitzer prize winning journalist liz, food editor and dining critic at the palm beach post and has worked as a foreign correspondent, magazine writer, television news producer and metro columnist. is a call missed for the "miami herald" is she won the 1993 pulitzer prize for commentary and later shared the second holds her for breaking news. she was one of the first people in this town to move the cuba
conversation forward before moving the cuba conversation forward was cool and has authored books that include the memoir of miami's doctor to the homeless. the memoir of television anchor, i am my father's dollar-- daughter and a novel, sweet mary. born in cuba, where he still lives, a visual artist and poet. he is the author of a volume of poems about his memory of exiled cuban family and a recipient of major honors including the cuban national book design award and distinction from the city of-- a cofounder and he created over 500 handmade artist books between 1995 and 2013, which he
collected-- which are collected by the british national museum in the us library of congress. he now directs his own imprints in which he is creating limited edition one of a kind artist books rapidly gaining recognition for the unique beauty. born in reciting in cuba he is a historian and writer and directs the branch writer and artist union and a founding member of-- he teaches history and social cultural anthropology and is a prolific and highly respected author of articles and a dozen books about the history of slavery and slavery emancipation and cubit. he has lectured about his research at universities in europe-- us, europe and latin america.
he has been honored with distinction. welcome, everyone. [applause]. >> hello, everyone. thanks to everyone for coming out today, family and friends and many thanks to the book fair and to lisa and her incredible team of wonderful book fair this year. i will be the moderator and i will try to be brief. lets me keep my watch here and if not many might and will tell me when i talk for too long, so let me begin by saying that throughout the '90s, when i began traveling to cuba i would stop in miami and i would visit my maternal grandmother and she didn't like that i was going to cuba so much and she would always say--
[speaking in naative tongue] >> what are you trying to find their and it was a chore, i really wasn't, this was the grandmother who had spent nine years working in cuba to help bring her family from poland to safety cuba on the eve of the holocaust and i felt a need for reconnection with this place that had been a refuge from a jewish family. on the one in the family, i guess, in every family there is someone like that who really felt the need to reconnect with cuba, and i have been going back and forth for many years and when i went back on those first few visits, one of the first visits my great aunt and great uncle had a son who died in cuba of leukemia.
he was buried in cuba in 1954, and when we left cuba in the 60s, of course, his great had to be left behind and when i went back, they said please take a picture and find out if his grave is still there because they were afraid that maybe it would have been defaced or mistreated. i went to the cemetery on the outskirts of havana, and i found the grave. it was in perfect shape and was very well taken care of and then i found out the woman who had been his nanny and her older-- her younger sister had been my nanny in those two women, two black cuban women had been taking care care of his grave, a grave of a jewish boy in cuba. that, i think, for me is where the bridge to cuba began. that says that there were other people holding onto jewish memory for us back in cuba. they didn't have to do that, but it was an act of kindness and love that they showed to my
family and i think that's where my desire to create bridges to cuba began, these bridges of sentiment, feeling, a motion, ties across time and across history. when i edited my anthology 20 years ago called 20 years of cuba, conversations between cubans on the island were still pretty rare and far between in the process of reconciliation was just beginning. our lives had been ruptured by politics and ideology. it was almost as if a civil war had broken between us and broken us as a nation. but, i wondered what did we still have in common is a culture. was there something about being cuban that united us and made us one people and if there was, how were we to tell these shared his stories. that was the question we try to
answer in bridges to cuba. it brought together 80 writers and scholars and artists and our motto was walls turn on their side can be bridges. many were part of a generation that had left cuba as children. we were searching for a lost childhood. i call myself and others of the generation-- [speaking in native tongue] >> an old child and on the island i found people were trying to understand who we were because we seemed-- those that had left, we seemed to live in two worlds and we were seeking a bridge between past and present now 20 years later we are living in a very different moment with the restoration of time between the us and cuba and there is now a 20th anniversary edition of the bridges to cuba out with a beautiful cover and i will just
read a couple of paragraphs from that to bring us up-to-date. when the news broke on december 17, 2014, of a restored ties between the us and cuba, it felt sterling that cuba was in the spotlight. my mother and father who had never been back to cuba since we left in the early 60s, reacted in typical fashion. my father said that united states was condoning another 50 years of tyranny on the island, but my mother began to dream of finally going back to visit cuba. may be, she said daydreaming allowed the ferry will begin operating again. my father once said he would even go back only if the ferry service from key west or miami to havana, were restored thinking this would never happen.
but, now as our family drama is being played out on the world stage, there is great expectation that the ferry and other bridges between the us and cuba will soon become a reality. i have been waiting forever for this cuban moment to arrive, so why men to my little ambivalence about the fanfare around cuba. aren't bridges what i wanted to ask like other cubans i feel distressed when i observe the mushrooming of numerous instant experts who are marketing an exotic and distorted image of cuba in the mad rush to get to cuba and to figure out cuba there is a terrible silencing taking place. we are not paying enough attention to the more subtle and poetic voices of those who have been experiencing cuba for a lifetime. that's what we hope to do in this panel is to share the
voices of those who have been experiencing cuba for lifetime. this past june, richard and i created a blog called bridges to from cuba and we want to create a space that can serve as a forum for cubans to express the poetry of this unfolding moments, a moment of anxiety and hopes, of doubts and dreams, other moments when we are trying to create a bridge to the future. we invite all of you to read our blog and to give us your comments and to send us your contributions. so, we are very fortunate to have on incredible group of panelists today. all of them are dear friends of mine that i have known for 20 years and we are going to start with rolando who is the most incredible book artist that you
[speaking in native tongue] [applause]. [applause]. >> i'm going to translate. does everyone speak spanish? so, i was taking very good notes and that's one of the good things about being an anthropologist. i have notes and i will translate or at least do a summary of what he said because he said some really incredible things. so, he started by talking about what the word bridges means to him and he lives in the city and he doesn't like the name of the city because some of you will know what this means and it means killings or slaughter and he doesn't like being in a city called slaughter and so he is involved in a campaign to change the name of the city to beautiful feet instead of that. he mentioned that he was in a
city without her and his name and it's a city with three rivers and about 15 bridges and he is always crossing physical bridges. getting between places in the nearby town and he's always thinking about bridges in his day to day life and then he recalled when he was eight years old, that was the first time he got a passport. his family got him a passport. he didn't know what it meant that meeting a boy of eight years old and he would hear the these terms passport and the term money order and he was aware that something complicated was going on, but was not quite sure what it meant. the years passed, eight years passed and he was then of military agent cuba at the time in 1969, he was 15 years old. he was a young man of military age and he could not leave cuba, impossible for a boy about age to emigrate.
so, his family had a very difficult wrenching decision to make, do we all stay or do you stay and we will come back for you later this-- this is his parents and his younger sister who was eight years old at the time. the idea was you will stay and we will come back for you soon and so as he put at the boy stayed, 15 years old. they thought he would stay for a short while, but eventually lead, but he ended up falling in love, having a family, building a family in cuba and his family left with that air bridge, as he called it and he never got to live with his family again. they came to miami, parents and his sister and he stayed. so, for him art has become like his family and a since 195, he has been making these really beautiful unique books and they
are made with simple brown paper and using fragments and bits and pieces and initially with mimeograph's to make something beautiful out of four things. the books take time, as he says. they are basically a symbol of time passing and it takes a long time to make them and involves artisan and he has also built a very very beautiful bridge between the town and we have become close friends and collaborated on books together and so there is a bridge to michigan. he has come a couple of times to an-- as an artist and we formed a disputable bridge. so, he says in conclusion, art is a bridge and he now has his own independent imprint and he is the first person in cuba, to have this independent small imprints. he is doing this all by himself. very very difficult to do, but
he is doing it and as he says all my life i will be making these books, those were cubans and for people in the united states. he will constantly be building bridges through his books. [applause]. >> when we talk about ridges, i think what we are really talking about his conversation. unfortunately, when a conversation involves cuba, it can be loaded with distractions and agendas and all of those things that can fill political speeches, but can make conversation-- it can kind of sink a conversation. here is the thing, i think a conversation can also happen internally and i believe a conversation can also happen with yourself and it can happen many miles away from cuba to read it can happen in miami.
he can happen. for me the point of entry into a conversation about cuba is identity, manners of identity and it really goes to the core of who we are in order to reach the point of entry, sometimes it's hard to shut out a little bit the noise. i always say just let cuba find you. let yourself find cuba, in daily life. i think you can do this when you approach the topic from an identity standpoint, not as an anthony boarding, and ad agency and not as an outsider, but when you do it with an internal dialogue and you'd allow cuba to find you that way. i find it in music.
i find cuba everyday music. i find cuba everyday in the language that i hear, you know, fragments that i overhearing west palm beach where i work. i find it in food, and in fact, i conjure cuba in my kitchen constantly. i am now the food editor for the palm beach post, and i love stories about food. i love stories about how recipes came to be, how they are passed along from one relative to another, one generation to another. so, this week i'm going to conjure cuba once again in my kitchen when i make my mother's black beans for thanksgiving, because you know we have to have that alien dish always in thanksgiving. our alien dish is always the black beans and my mom passed
away in 2006, and i every year still make that big batch of beans exactly how she used to do it. i don't know if it comes out the same, but the secret is that little touch of sherry at the end. it's on infallible bridge. it's on infallible bridge. i travel to cuba constantly. with aromas, memories, it just gets me. for me, personally in my life, that is enough now. for me that is enough and i feel it's a valid as is the cuba of the next great-- that hip havana that will happen as predicted by anthony boarding, the next great -- i feel this cuba for me is just as valid and i allow cuba to find me in palm beach
just as my parents found cuba in hialeah. i feel very fortunate that i can still have that intimacy with the country of my birth. there is a misconception, i think, people believe cuba belongs to a government, cuba belongs to a generation, cuba blogs to a group or a long-suffering people and i think that is false. kubo belongs to me. cuba wants you. kubo belongs to everyone here and i feel i have a birthright personally to walk those streets and claim queue might not only physical dimensions, but to claim in figurative dimensions as well. i can do that being un-american. i am a proud american. that ever flowing conversation will always be part of myself. quintet cuba when i was 23 years old. and went to the place where i was born. i walked those streets of
unpaved, the streets outside the house where my parents live the. it was such a gift to me because it informed my soul, who i was. i mean, i felt after i had been there and i had seen the way my parents, you know, the places where my parents meant, for instance, and where they grew up and even to bathe by dipping eight fruit canning water the way they do once upon a time. i can go anywhere in the world after that and i knew where i had come from and i knew where i was. i believe that fragment of identity no matter how old i get , it will always be with me in that is what i can personally bring to this table and i can also bring an open heart and i can bring open ears to talk about your cuba, whether it's
[speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [applause]. [applause]. >> so, that was fascinating and i will attempt a brief translation. took lots of notes, summary here. so, he began by talking about some of the difficulties of these interchanges and he himself actually went through a lot of difficulties to get here for the book fair getting his visa. he is very glad we are in a stage where cubans have it-- of
that both shores are moving beyond the blocked relations we had before. he remembers as a young man how sad it was watching people leaving cuba, after 1959, all of these beloved people that were beating and the trauma that involved a poor people that stayed behind. so, he remembers the emotional bridges that began to be formed in the early '90s, that was a time called the special period, a time of material and moral crisis in cuba. everyone was worried about how to survive, just how to make it from one day to another, how to find enough food to put on the table and that's when all of these bridges began in that period in the early '90s. he recently met richard bloch zero, richard and i were in cuba in june and we went to see him
since richard's family is from there and it turned out that orlando-- and he is-- [speaking in native tongue] >> so, orlando new richard's mother who is right here who had been a beloved teacher. so, he knew about her and she was a teacher that people still spoke about even though they had left cuba, so when we went back to cuba-- correct me if i'm wrong if i don't tell the story correctly and when we went back and they started talking about the connections like, wait i know your mother. is that prebudget? is that pretty much it? again, a way of saying people in cuba did not forget those of who were left and there were still fond memories of those of-- that had left island.
going back to the difficult time in the early '90s, when cuba was thinking of survival and making it day-to-day and orlando mentioned a writer named tom miller who wrote a book called trading with the enemy and he asking how do cubans live, what's it like to be at cuban etc. and orlando finally got tired and said okay, you want to see how cubans live, come to my house. the early '90s, again time of great shortage and so on the got to his house and there was a blackout, no electricity. got to there and the only thing that was available for dinner was rice and an egg that was where the child in the family and he said this is what we have, rice and egg for the child. a man appeared selling tamales and so they've brought one tomorrow and cut it into four pieces so they could each get some and they said let's see if
anything else appears in the next door neighbor, a lady giving them some sweets made out of papaya. suddenly, they had dessert, also. subsequently, an east german scholar came by and orlando said how did you find me and at the time he was feeling depressed and wasn't doing his scholarship. he didn't have paper or ribbon for his typewriter and he lent some of his research material to this scholar and that was how orlando started coming back to his scholarship. orlando is a special it-- specialist in the history of slavery in cuba and this scholar came and started basically encouraging him to go back to his research and then my colleague, rebecca scott who is a historian meant toward-- meant
toward. rebecca scott started traveling to cuba and she was the first american historian who pushed and pushed and pushed to be able to do her doctor real-- doctor orie research in the 80s this has changed in the '90s, but in the 80s it was still very hard to get permission and she kept pushing until she was finally ever-- finally able to do heard doctor oriel in cuba and that opened up a path to other scholars as well who started going to do research. so, i will just be brief. orlando talk about creating these different workshops and being open to different methods, doing scholarships and other methods. very interesting scholar, historian at harvard now and he had been doing his-- he had been doing his research in cuba, but
then he decided to do his dissertation writing in the united states and because of that they called him a traitor. back at that time and then they try to get him to come back to cuba, to be in a workshop that was very difficult, but he finally got his visa. anyway, i happen to have met orlando in michigan, because he was invited by rebecca scott and i was holding a party for this artist i had invited and that was actually when i first met orlando. i went to add one personal story. so, many years ago when i was in cuba, i actually became very very sick. i have never told my family, so don't tell my mother. i don't want them to get worried. but i got very very sick and i didn't know what i had and i had a fever and was very ill and i--
immediately orlando who knew me said you are not well and i have to take you to a doctor. we went to the hospital and a friend of his is a doctor there and they said to me, if they ask you your namesake you are ruth fernandez-- [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] >> so, i went and they did the x-ray and it turned out i had this terrible pneumonia. we did all of this because they took me to the public cuban hospital, so i wouldn't have to pay anything because as you know medical attention is free. i got free attention. x-ray done it it turned out i had this terrible pneumonia and i was supposed to go into eastern cuba and his friend said you can go onto eastern cuba,
but if you do you will probably be in a hospital, so i didn't and thanks to orlando as well his wife had stockpiled some antibiotics and so they has a man about x and i was able to get better and then i came back to michigan and had to be in bed for two weeks. i think orlando saved my life, as well. [applause]. >> but, anyway we met in cuba and he was there for this workshop with rebecca scott. anyway, so he is really glad just to be here. he is very very glad we are in a different space and there is more openness for debates, for discussion, that there should be more brotherhood and sisterhood back and forth across the border. he talked about we are the same people, the same country and it's important to continue to create these bridges.
so, thank you. [applause]. >> good afternoon, everyone. is this on? guess? okay. thank you. thank you for your wonderful comments. you have given me so much to think about. i wish i could talk spanish and i wish i could take notes like ruth. that is insane. she was able to do that on the spot. [applause]. >> when orlando starts talking and when we were visiting i'm just like, the stuff that comes out of his spanish i was like i wish i knew spanish that way. i would like to give you a brief sort of two were of what bridges has been in my life and sort of
both physical as an engineer, both proverbial, l and artistic and all the rest rather quickly. i don't know if this is getting old, but as i like to say i was made in cuba, assembled in spain and imported to the united states. my mother left seven months pregnant from cuba and was born in madrid and seven months later we emigrated to new york and eventually miami. of course, what that signifies for me among many things is that the idea of crossing, by the time i was 45 days old was already in my psyche and beyond that was that i was kind of because my brother was older. by the whole family here. actually he looks younger than me now. we will say he was 20 years older than me. i was the first person in the family to learn english and spanish, i learned them at the
same time. i don't remember not knowing to like witches and my first sort of role as a bridge builder was translating. i remember bite parents saying how do you say this or the other and later on as an adolescent like being able to really pull the wool over their eyes and tell them all sorts of things in english and get away with linguistic murder. they didn't know one bad word in english, so it was good. later in life, i think my bridges started in a different way. as we all know-- liz, correct me if i am wrong because i have maybe been misquoting you truck the entire world. was at one time said not-- we love living in miami because it's so close to the united states. [laughter] >> and you don't need a passport. so, i think probably these things we are talking about, direct-- for me my first bridge was to america. growing up in miami, was that
under diverse culture especially in the 70s and 80s. everyone was cuban, like me or my parents or my grandparents. so, as a little kid it was only natural, sort of the instinct is we don't always accept our given culture because it's your parents. we are not doing that, so the idea was i wanted to see that mythic america, a bridge to the america i had seen on tv and the america we really didn't access yet. as is natural as you grow up and mature and start realizing you are given culture, your birthright, that sense of starting to come into your own and knowing these aren't just a bunch of old stories and a bunch of old folks in the family that are telling, but really a part of who i am. so, i begin another bridge towards cuba, mostly through my art.
my bridge did it begin out one in and it at another, but really began in the middle and sort of a bridge in both directions. kind of the opposite the way you are supposed to build a bridge from one side to the other. that middle point was, of course, miami and the power that has happened. they are both very unfinished bridges. in some ways, even though i started and went to cuba for the first time in 1994, again, my mother left her entire family behind in cuba. her eight brothers and sisters, everyone and so i needed to sort of see that really happen dance those people. i needed to see those landscapes , but it was also-- it was a bridge, but not to the place i needed to go yet and it was a bridge that was sort of in a way you had to come back because especially in 1994, and
the trips i have been since the possibility of even thinking about having a real intimate relationship with the island emotionally and otherwise wasn't really a possibility. ..ruth and i always comment that the minute you come back and get off at the airport it just seems like all that happened was just a dream. did that really happen, did we just go to cuba? but, in any case that bridge was finished on the side toward america was also sort of not finish. in a way, as much as i tried i still felt like i need to be that mythic peter brady, that little kid on tv and even though i was living and lived up north in connecticut, and eventually maine. this is where i was when ruth and i first started to go to
cuba this last june. well before that i think. there is a sense that i'm just going to behis prson in the ddle of te bridge that that's my life and that's okay. and then obama called and said, richard, write a poem for america. i can do and obama impersonation. i wish i could. write a poem for america. suddenly that bridge did get finished in some ways. one of the greatest gifts of the inauguration the whole process of writing that poem been unfolding debate is that since i was, not that i was peter brady but a realize i didn't have to beat peter brady. that was part of the american sort of narrative that has always been there end up starting to recognize that i belong to the store and belong to that narrative. sort of the pendulum swung and i
was like peter brady or pedro or something your pedro blanco i guess. and so that other sites of felt, aside to cuba felt unfinished and i thought that's just the way it's going to be. it was weird because i felt so grounded in my americanness it can only your second look at america sort of through the lens of the other look at the strange land i live in trying to connect that. then december 17, almost two years to the day of when i got the call for the inaugural poem of this news gets unleashed. i don't know about you or anyone in this audience but it just shunned -- sent shock waves to all of us, good boys, bad boys, we will bring ways because a realize that unfinished bridge to cuba in some way, what they
were for the embargo or against the embargo, what ever you stood politically, emotionally, in some ways a possibility was the glue that was holding us. in some ways it was the center of so much that we could all sort of walk around and suddenly the bottom dropped out. it took me four days. i almost had to go into therapy. i thought i knew how i felt about cuba. i thought i knew what felt about this stuff. suddenly so many different questions popped up i had never really occurred to me. just read some of the list here. would i be no to american for cuba? was a really cuban? what did it mean to be cuban? does that mean going around miami all day and say -- [speaking spanish] like suddenly cuba became a real place.
for the possibility of becoming is replaced i could have a relationship as things unfold. as i'm watching them unfold, hopefully. and also realized even though i got to cuba five or six times throughout my life that it was all a romantic i come sort of a dreamy i. suddenly realizing it is a real country here that's been around for a long, long period in my little story, and that the country had evolved in its own way, had its own problems in its own ways. i had a whole other issue to catch up with, and all other sort of community of friends and family, new family members. cuba suddenly became a real country which i thought, i thought i thought about it that way but no, it seems that really does so much more to catch up. one of the things that really started concerning me or thinking about, and this is
really, really, really important to me and this is something that i'm just very anxious about. it's this idea that lets it all these changes happen. does that mean that my mother's story gets erased? does that mean may feel sad story in cuba gets erased? all these changes who is going to be th a curator of history? who's going to be the curator of those stories that are so important to me that none of them get washed out because i don't see it as there's a history here and history there that there are these two industries that are part of one arc of history and 50 be able to bridge that history and that part, not like one side one of the other side lost. it's not that black and white. this is what i call the emotional bridge. the emotional embargo that we need to link those things that
have been sort of severed or not talked about really in a way. those real stories, and not listen to washed away. a couple other things. yes, two more things. i also build bridges as an engineer. i've actually, one of the things i did was a bridge hydrologist which is not the guy who opens up the drawbridge, which i as i thought it was when my boss told me. we have a bridge hydrologist project but really where bridge start is not in the peers, not any cables, not in the decks. the bridge starts really below. and things you can't see. much up as hydrologist is to study the river, to study its history, to understand how it grows, how it swells, how fast it moves all those things the i
can't see. that's ultimately how a bridge stands while the bridge will fall apart. or collapse. i think what we're trying to do, where each of us are trying to do individually come at a love this idea so that each of us do our own bridge building in our own way, even if it's just within ourselves is to look at that stuff that you can't see that's going to either make or break the bridge, or depend on how the bridge is going to build, the emotional stuff, the stuff of famine and all the rest, culture and all the rest. the stuff that runs in those current about art and family lore and history's and whatnot. and i think that's our roof and i have been able to solve that moment. we did this largely because we did to respond to something. we knew that that center had fallen out in some ways. we wanted to protect the
stories, the stories that often go unheard all the time as a way of making the foundation for whatever the new bridge might look like, if it ever finishes on both sides. the other thing i was talking about recently come at a who said this, maybe it was elizabeth, -- [speaking spanish] , am i right? and i think what i wanted to think about and take on is the idea what conversations we're having artistically, academically, culturally and all the rest is that this world, we are trying to solve yes, it's about cuba or trying to think about cuba but it's larger than that in a way. look at what's happened in the world. look at the movements of people, look at countries in the things are getting blurry. the idea of nation is blurry and
glory. border is blurry or and blurrier every day. look what's happened with syria. for us as thinkers and academics it's really a foundation to think about the larger issues, about how, cuba is just an example of one of the fundamental human issues that humanity has. it's this idea before, this idea of immigration, the second movement et cetera, et cetera and have a solid may be something you saw hopefully or whatever mistakes we also make might be something useful in the long run. and i think -- how much time have we got? is that it? and as common as my quote, never give a cuban a microphone. [laughter] i just like to share them close in just a little excerpt -- and
i think in part that's what when i was asked to more little things. the idea -- [laughter] the idea that i feel personally at a few emotional and personal responsibility in these changes that i didn't necessarily create but to participate them, participate in such a way that we can affect what th that chane will look like. again it's an honor and respect, my parents come. subcommittee, the stories, the equivalent of the counterparts in cuba. but to make sure those changes really are towards something meaningful. that's why i chose to step into that moment in the reopening of the u.s. embassy. for very personal reasons but also for prosperity and the sake of caring, hopefully having an effect in some way. not politically because what
we're taught but his academically, artistically and all the rest but influencing it in some way. i would just like to close with an excerpt from the preface i wrote for the poem. i grew up with half the family and have a mother, emotionally. i was a fractured person, the american anthony cupid have connected only by tenuous, a so-called cuban-american. but through the writings of matters that the see, and participate in the u.s. embassy reopening then mending symbolically have become. a choice between american and cuba nor hyphenated cuban-american but an american cuban. i have realized that indeed i felt my heart is big enough to embrace the people of two countries, two cultures, two industries, to homes.
i dedicate this poem to my mother, to all those who also need to heal and then, to those who believe that love, compassion and adjudication are key in seeking human distress individually or collectively. to those who oppressed our last -- lost their lives in cuba in the see we share for the sake of change. by politics may divide people, the deep attachments to family, country, and the memory of home have the power to bring us together. as such it is my humble hope that this poem they reached deep into our emotional selves, connect us to our shared humanity and thereby serve as a catalyst for meaningful changes in cuba, and a new understand among cubans everywhere. [applause]
>> thank you. thank you so much, richard. we are so lucky to have richard as our poet ambassador right now with cuba. thank you so much, so beautiful. i don't know if we did time for questions or not. so i don't think so. so let me make some important announcements. don't only just yet. richard has another panel as soon as 4:30 p.m. and the children's alley. 's book is been turned into a children's book. rolando has another presentation at the exile lounge, that's building to andy's going to have his books available for you to look at close up and purchase. if you would like. i want to thank elizabeth ford beautiful piece she wrote for our blog, manifesto of a cuban
hard. and orlando has some of his history books. i think we go outside now and the books will be there if you're interested. thank you so much to everybody. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> and you are watching booktv's live coverage of the 32nd annual miami book fair. that was a panel on cuba that you have been watchingcombat up next the next offer you will see is stacy schiff was written about the salem witch trials. her book is a bestseller. we are live and where live in the center of miami-dade
college. with credit a call and set and want to introduce you to but author named adam levin. is the book called "swiped." first of all, you are noted as the founder and chairman of credit.com. what is.com? >> guest:.com is an online educator, advocate. it's also a site where you can get products and services that are appropriate to where you are in your credit life. and also provide free storage and free information about how to get wherever you are to wherever you want to get to so you pay less money for access money than you pay when you started. we are one of the longest surviving.com ask. we started in 1994. we swapped a hard drive to get the domain. that's all but we bent around
and we've had a wonderful opportunity to subcommittee with consumers and help consumers but without millions over the years and we hope to continue to do so. specter also those founder of a website called identity theft 9/11. what is that? >> guest: we got a new name. it's an organization that works with companies for the benefit of their customers, employees, clients and what we do is we have everything from identity theft education, identity management, a brief -- breach response, preparedness, identity resolution. was the first company ever founded based on a core competence of helping people get through the trauma of being victims of identity theft. >> host: okay, so you book is called? >> guest: . if somebody goes to credit.com how much do you and your company learn about them? >> guest: we learned a great
deal. they give us information willingly. because we have free products and services for them and it's designed to really help them better their position in the credit world. so it's sort of a collaborative effort between credit.com and consumers. we are extremely security conscious. we don't share information, that it's all about education information, helping consumers. where one of the largest content libraries, thousands of articles that are there because our goal is to answer questions and to anticipate the kinds of questions that actually will be asked. >> host: from your book you've written since 2005 more than 1 billion sensitive records with personally identifiable information has been leaked try not that's a problem. we are in a new paradigm and the paradigm is that attacks them breaches have become the third
certainty in life behind death and taxes. with over a billion files have an access with personal identifiable information to each of us is going to become a victim of identity theft in our lifetime and, unfortunately, possibly multiple times will become victims of identity theft. the question is how do you adjust yourself to this new world? as much as we'd like to say it can be prevented. unfortunately, it can't. you can get everything right but if you're on the wrong database at the wrong moment and the wrong person gains unauthorized access, you wil will be a victio if the information on the database includes your social security number, they have an option on july but no longer as to if but when they will exercise it. >> host: is social security number the golden key? >> guest: it is. and the fact is we need to get off th this addiction of social
security numbers and we are starting to get taking government of our longtime. for those of us, i admit it, i got that magic card in the mail, my medicare card and that is your medicare number is your source is getting number plus a letter. there's a new law that over time they will change that. if seniors are horribly exposed because of the fact if someone gets into your wallet, even if you take everything out that they could use to identify you but we still carry licenses or walk around with your social security number. make the picture of the card, redacted out most of the numbers because will ask for it, if you're in a medical situation securities but i will give you the number. and iowa city people, should you go to a doctor and ask for a sauce was getting number, don't give it to them. in those cases you can't get out of the office unless you give them a credit card. say to them know. some people say we do because that's what we've always done
it. that's what over a billion files have been exposed because we have done things a certain way. we need to change that. you also have to say to that is any other reason? if you die we need your sauce was good enough for. my response is call my lawyer. you don't need to have it. there's so many instances in the world we live in where people ask you for your social security number. in financial transactions unfortunately the social security number has been a part of the ad hocly we'll start moving off of that. when you go to sign up you kids for little league or to a variety of different programs or a loaded program in basic we need your sauce is pretty number. no, they don't get don't give it to them. >> host: a child's social security number is pristine. >> guest: totally. i'll give you a great story. one of the people i know who's an expert, a chief privacy officer for the biggest organizations in the world, her
daughter became a victim of child identity theft nine years before she was born because someone invented a number, used it. this also security administration not know that outsider and number and she became a victim. the reason the numbers of importance there so pristine. no one should be using the social security number for credit or anything like that until they are at least 18. so people steal this information can use it and know that they have -- children don't check their salsa cutting numbers. most parents are not go check their children's also scared a number at the time they need to think about is if they want to get a college loan, a car, their first credit card. that doesn't really happen. parents use children's also skewed numbers on their tax returns as dependence but there's been a breach of the transcript section of the internal revenue service now and so more and more of that
information is out there. it's a real problem, child identity theft. >> host: who are the scammers, fishers and identity thieves we should be most worried about? >> guest: there are four types of hackers. hackers have any problem. those attack because their state-sponsored, packing for intelligence reasons. those that sponsor because they want to make the money. those that hack because they can do it and they want to prove they can do it. and those that hack because they're trying to put the point. what we call cause hackers. ashley madison was a cause havoc for 37 million people have their information exposed to so many was angry. the sony hack with a combination of someone doing it for money but really because they were state-sponsored hackers, representing north korea, and they were angry at sony for pointing out a movie that they felt made fun of the praetor of north korea.
you have both, people who want to make money so they hack. people to work in organizations that are aime angry at the organization and want to make a point. you have people who are subject to being bribery victims, who are being extorted who might give up information. the office of personnel management, which is the human resource department for the united states government, was hacked presumably by china. but after the chinese authorities have done with whatever they want with that information they can sell it and now suddenly people are exposed. the problem with the pack, 5 million fingerprints were exposed. the most intimate details of investigative reports for background checks for security clearances were exposed as a result of that hack and those intimate details could lead the person who has that information in their possession to blackmail intelligence operatives, to try
to bribe intelligence operatives. these are the different ways that you can be exposed because of identity -- social networking. people get on social networking. they have to tell everybody everything and didn't realize some of the people they think are the friends are not different. catfish in we talk about in the book where people are approached by someone in a romantic way but sadly they ask too much, they want to get too close to fast and before you knew it they start asking for money, start asking for personal information. you could be exposing yourself that way as well. >> host: don't give your sauce is pretty number even though many places ask for it and require it. besides the social media aspect what are we missing as far as protecting ourselves transferred minimize your risk of exposure, don't carry your social security card and those of their children. don't care your entire inventory of credit and debit cards.
don't give information to people you don't know and be careful about giving information to people you think you know. if someone calls you on the phone and says they are from the irs, hang out. they don't do that. or they say they are from your bank. if you ask anything more than we have noticed some suspicious activity in your account, just in from the transaction investor ask you to authenticate yourself, hang up. protect the devices that you use. your smartphone is more than taking medication device. is a data storage device so make sure you put the right software and to put the right protections on there. scene which a laptop. the same with your ipad. you should also be using long and strong passwords and don't share your passwords across your entire universe of websites it is all of you need is to have one hacked on one website and if you use the same password and id information, they are going to be in everyone's other sites.
shred. monitor, go to -- see anything desolate record come to sites like credit.com and get a free score that is updated monthly. check your bank and credit card accounts on a daily basis. if that is too much of a pain, then signed up for what is called transaction monitoring. your bank and credit card company notified anytime there's activity because the bank may catch it as suspicious but you may catch it because you know where you are and where you haven't been. you can get more sophisticated forms of monica including modern that has what's called me not be alert which is somewhat attempting to open an account in your name right now. is that you? yes or no. that could prevent fraud. consider countries where no one but you can get into your credit account without a password or p.i.n. number.
the last one is managed to damage. a lot of people say to do so. you could and did have no life but there are many institutions that have programs that are available to protect you free as the perk with relationship with the institution. your insurance company, many credit unions, smaller banks. the h.r. department where you work. call and ask do you have a program? amite in a? if not what do i need to do to get in it. is a frequent what does it cost? they make the determination if it's worth it because identity theft has become so sophisticated and it takes people so long to find a they are a victim that by the time they do find out, there's so much they need a professional to help them through it. >> host: there's been a lot of talk recently about a so-called backdoor into our smartphones and encryption, does that increase security? doesn't decrease our security?
>> guest: i think when the our back doors in encrypted systems you are weakening that system. they say let's just make sure the government house the backdoor. look at the track with the government protecting the data that we've given them from the white house, the state department, the postal service, the department of defense, the department of education from the office of personnel management. state by state by state you see all these breaches time and time again. encryption should be absolute. we don't have enough. the reason why we are in the mess we're in today is because we didn't encrypt. the only shot we have to protect ourselves is we have to encrypt, protect that encryption. that government has to the ways they can get the information at once. that are different systems that are not encrypted data can use if it has to. it goes about it the right way, which is with a warrant and
going about it through the judicial system. but we can't look for ways to weaken that which we're trying to strengthen. we have to assume also based on sophistication a creative and the persistence of hackers, whatever you create has a system that you think is totally secure. they may well find a way around it anyway. they have their own system. they're going to do what they're going to do. we just have to get better at detecting the bad guys and do something about it. >> host: a while back there was a commercial on the air of this gentleman sink is my social security number. go ahead. come and get me just make he was trying to sav say look, i've the wonderful comment behind the and they can help if i have a problem. what you don't want to do is precipitate the problem. the real issue is in the world we live in you can do everything right. you can say to yourself the best possible way you can.
you can do everything ever told you to do buddies are on the wrong database and the wrong person gains access and your information is on there, you've got a problem. the truth is yes, there companies out there that can help you and your wonderful place to learn more information, consumer federation of america has developed a site called id theft info.org. they have a number of providers that of sight of that taken up as practiced pledge. databases of questions and answers and to do the right thing the company should be doing the they tell you what you need to be thinking about the features the company to help you and yes, you should minimize, monitor, have a program to manage the damage. there are many marching programs out there that have different damage control programs attached to them. read up on them, study them, understand them, make the right decisions. >> host: what do you think about retina scans and fingerprints to get into your telephone? >> guest: i think this is all
good, but again, mastercard just came up with anything that they're developing which is the do an online transaction, then you take a self-interest most to blink because it's supposed to show proof of life so it's not a static picture. i was with a security expert who said something cut out one of the guys and wink. we have to continue to move more toward our metrics and biometrics as an important partner the way you actually press the key on your smartphone, your heartbeat, your blood flow, that will be part of a biometrics entity system in place. but you're not going to the biometrics but you need to factor authentication if you need to be up to authenticate yourself to the site. you need a site to be authenticating itself to you and it needs to take it with you and make sure that they have the right person, that is the right
device that as time goes on we'll have more of them. >> host: use the book "swiped." adam levin is the author. you're watching booktv on c-span2 live from miami. and now as we continue our live coverage of the miami book fair we are going back into chapman all here on miami-dade college campus. stacy schiff best selling author of "the witches." this is about the salem in 1692. booktv on c-span2 two. >> she is the author, winner of the pulitzer prize, also the author of cleopatra, a best selling book and winner of the award for biography. she's the author of -- pulitzer prize finalist and a great improvisation from franklin, france, and the birth of america. winner of the george washington book prize and the ambassador book award. stacy schiff received fellowships from the guggenheim
foundation and the national endowment of the humanities and an award in literature from the american academy of art and letters. her latest book, "the witches: salem, 1692", unpacks the ministry of the salem witch trials which began in 1692 when a minister's daughter begin to scream and convulse. it ended less than a year later but not before 19 men and women have the hang and an elderly man crushed to death. the panic spread quickly involving the most educated and prominent politician in the called up in curious ways that trials would shape the future republic. as psychologically thrilling as it is historical seminal, "the witches" is stacy's account of his fantastical story. please join me in welcoming stacy schiff. [applause]
>> thank you all. don't worry about timing, i am a slow rider but fast synar. i will get to everybody. after i started writing this book i went to see one of the great seventeenth century experts that i've thought had welcome the best pages we have on sale and because i wanted some advice about the archives. when i left that afternoon, as an afterthought, offered another piece of advice, i should probably work you, he said, strange things tend to happen when you work on witchcraft. it was a fall day, i walked off, research and wrote the book, delivered on schedule, the publisher was pleased with it, more pleased when they discovered publishers weekly, the book industry publication was going to be doing a feature on me and with it they would include a full page lead photo and they did and it looked like
this. [laughter] as you might notice, that stacy schiff is not i. thanks to twitter it took 90 seconds to learn that is the novelist amy stewart. she has a book out this fall which i will also be signing after this talk. when i asked my publisher to send this over to show it to you i also asked for an image of the table of context i had not seen any scented and here it is announcing my return to fiction in my forthcoming novel. and the four years i spent in the archives deciphering and inciting from documents, corraling my imagination and triple checking details, also that i could write a novel. strange things happen to you
when you work on witchcraft. no witches is not a work of fiction. is an attempt to grapple with what precisely what happened in eastern massachusetts in 1692 among the more disturbing moments in our history, may qualify as the best known, least understood chapter in america's past, partly because it seems so improbable. partly because it comes to us largely through hawthorne and arthur miller who were writing fiction but partly because new england's enemies seem to have made off with the story. here we are about halfway between plymouth rock and paul revere and all seems to go entirely off the rails. several kinds of stories at once as i will make clear in a few minutes but all of that in nine short months, the tragedy to which we regular the return of few corners of american history have been so often explored and if you don't believe me, this is
my local library shelves on seventeenth century america and these are my office shelves when i finish the book, those little volumes at the top of the screen, the classical library refugees from the cleopatra years and only recently did i look up and realize what cicero must think to be surrounded by puritans. the national campfire tale, one of the bear moments in our history when candles are knocked out and everyone seems to be groping around in the dark. of place where all good stories begin. in the dark we believe fervently in imagine most vividly, in the dark we contemplate our mistakes and wrestle with our fear is. in the dark there is an italian proverb, every cat is a leopard. if you read the papers, seventeenth century essex county you begin to notice the new england there lived very anxiously and attentively in the
dark. win and stumbled into bed to find strangers sleeping there, then trooped home through the night to discover familiar landmarks have moved and are lost in their own backyard. young men report they are we need at the thought of writing to their family farms after sundown and when the devil offers to accompany them they accept his offer. in a dark bar and a camel knocked from her hand, teenage girl in forms a man who attempted to assault her, quote, i would rather be bored by the cow than defiled by such programs as you. baja i read every seventeenth century account of the howling wolves and the native americans, but it took me a long time to realize how dark dark truly can be. our world is the electrified. their world is palpably physically black. it took me until, this is downtown manhattan in 2012 in
the wake of hurricane sandy i was driving friends home when the car was out and turned off the headlights and suddenly all of those accounts of the new england wilderness made sense to me. the seventeenth century dark, the line in chapter one, the sky over new england was pitch black, so black it could be difficult to keep to that task, a line of trees might migrate between other locations or you might find yourself pursued after nightfall by a rabid black hog living in a home bloody and disoriented on all fours. i should mention in court test me any the early american mentioned an ear witness, words and sound reigned supreme, it was really quiet. the testimony about the rapid black hogg is from september which trial, the hog, swore a
40-year-old far was no ha at all, it was a double and custom to trip, slashing his leg with his knife and he knew who it was. it was a witch, he swore and he could identify her, the woman who had come into the tavern where he was drinking with a friend of the night there and told a friend he shouldn't have been out quite so late. the woman named for witchcraft two weeks after that testimony. the basic salem facts i simple. in 1692 over particularly harsh winter, a 9 and 11-year-old girl, happened to be the niece and daughter of salem village minister samuel paris, just before the move to salem when he would have been in his late 30s, complained something bit and choked them, their bodies twisted, they attempted to slide through the air, lunge into fireplaces, one of them disappeared halfway down a well, the number of descriptions of their symptoms but we have no
image. this is the closest we can come, this is from a nineteenth century french text on the faces of hysteria or emotional trauma and its physical manifestation, arched back and peddle limbs, rigid limits very much for people who observe the paris girl described. no one in the seventeenth century distinguished between a overtaxed nervous system and be which. in a matter of weeks two other village girls began to convulse liz dahlem soon learned from samuel paris and other authorities they were bewitch and with that diagnosis you can guess what happened, their symptoms begin to deteriorate. soon enough all four of them revealed to be which the them. we don't know why they named the name they did but think about it for a second. the question who annoys you, who and settles you, who irritates you, we all have an answer and
so did the girls but a month or so ago my credit card was packed and when i called american express to report it, the first question was did you lend your car to anyone and the second question was do you know anyone who might have done this to you and all i could think is i know that question. turned out there were not one but three whiches are around salem village, one went out at february for their arrests, suspects appeared a immediately before the authorities who interrogated them in the manner of the day which is to sell local beggar woman, the first woman to be depots was asked when she signed a contract with the devil, why she urge the girls and what creatures she had dispatched in order to do so. those questions came to her from important well-dressed men who lived in stately homes and own significant businesses his spoke with weight and authority, the context was asymmetrical. the story has something for everyone and here it begins to
mutate. if it started as a fairy tale, once upon a time, a wicked witch cast a spell on two little girls, it turns into a courtroom drama. let me talk a few minutes about witchcraft and how it worked. not every seventeenth century new england there was clear on this subject but those who were exceedingly clear, the early american, a which existed as heat or light, as if one already had it. the spirit could convey men and women through the air as that the wind could flatten a house. the early american which i should add did not look like this. although there is a great deal of the wizard of oz in this story, nor did the seventeenth century which look like this. this is the original wicked witch of the west from the 1900 edition of the wizard of oz, i am partial to that flying braid
and unexpected dispatch. this is an early american halloween which, we don't know how they were involved with halloween in the first place but they dressed very, fully, basic black after margaret hamilton in the 1939 movie. so which is the seventeenth century new england knew her as someone who performed by virtue of her contract with the devil and from that pact she drew the power to transform herself into cats, wolf, rabbits and rabin black hogs which could be a man or woman, the more often she was female and she maintained a menagerie of familiars, demonic mascots the dinner bidding, often turtles, weasels, cats, dogs and toweds. you conceit here this seventeenth century woman is feeding her blood to her diabolical toads, this is a woman with great black cat and
demon familiar, she illustrates the 1621 english witchcraft case and this woman was acquitted of all charges. these are more diabolical familiars, they range from basic standard issue barnyard animals to fantastic gargoyle like creatures. black cats, a particular favorite, turn up regularly throughout the salem testimony, black dogs occur, but historically english whiches tended for canine -- k-9 for. this is not a witch's familiar but a family catch. looking ever so vaguely demonic here. a which could be a muttering contentious malcontent, she or he could be inexplicably strong war unaccountably smart. those kinds of whiches could turn up as salem as would merchants, see captains,
ministers and homeless 5-year-old girls. witchcraft tended to run in families along matrilineal lines. there would be a reason so many of the accused were related to earlier witchcraft suspect or both. her power was supernatural. the which's crime was religiously in new england all tatar good was the soul rather than the body and her connection to those convulsing girls in salem, every englishmen had long known what enchantment looked like. according to the legal guide, was about to land on samuel paris's desk, which cracked manifested senseless trances, paralyzed limbs, convulsions, jaws clamped shut, and the symptoms of the girls and the parsonage to lead the. among the abundant approves of the which's existence was the biblical injunction against her,
you shall not suffer a which to live, commands the scripture. i am sorry to share with you the basic english translation of exodus 22:18. any woman using a natural powers or secrets arts is to be put to death. that pretty much applies to every woman i know. when massachusetts established the legal code the first capital crime was idolatry, the second was witchcraft. besides the mystery of the symptoms, the greater mystery, why in 1692 the hasty and reciprocity is in? charges were familiar from earlier cases, casting spells on livestock was a fairly common one. in salem which is cast spells on cattle, on wagons and muskets,
enchanted fireplaces and send dishes sailing. from an early case, they did not fare well, riding a pagan because they had been accused of pig be witching. new england which did a great deal of flying, down chimneys and apple trees and to a diabolical sabbath but traditionally the english which did not fly. continental whiches did which will provide a significant clue to what happened in salem in 1692 nor had there been any ghosts which flit around the court room in salem. women who come back from the dead to avenge themselves on abusive husband. those who confessed to witchcraft mention having slow, i should add on the devil's shoulders on branches or sticks, no new england which will never fly on a broom. these are english flyers, there are some english flyers, they seem to be recruiting the women
on the ground. this comes later, probably 18th-century. as far as broomsticks go, this one is my favorite, leave it to a french woman to fly gracefully. these are fifteenth century french blooms 6 -- broomsticks. they existed in all times and places. how is it possible imagination which was so personal and unpredictable could deliver the same conceit across cultures, in other words witchcraft was so preposterous, so improbable it had to be true. you couldn't make this stuff up. the impossibility of a shared delusion, the most compelling reason to believe in witchcraft, not to subscribe to it was heresy. sober minds did not make sport of the invisible world especially in light of the evidence, young, influential, at the center of the crisis. without mystery there is no
faith, to deny witchcraft was to deny religion, small step from the more provocative assertion, to deny witchcraft was to advocate it. the first arrest surprised no one. the three suspects counted among the likeliest people to be voted off the island but let me talk for a few seconds about the next one, the fourth accused which. -- witch. it is the accusations, one of the next knock were to land on your door and in the case of martha corey, up highest farm woman in her 60s, we know precisely what happened when that came at midafternoon on march 12th. surname, first uttered by a 12-year-old village girl surprised everyone. because it did, the church deacon and another villager hit a call on her because of a courtesy. first went off to see the
accusing girl. could she possibly be mistaken. did she describe the close third tormentor war. the girl could not. but witch had blinded her temporarily. the men road off, they found martha corey at home, welcomed her with the smile and anticipated the question. i know what you are come for, to talk with me about being at witch, she said. she was not at witch, she could not stop neighbors from gossiping. how do we know all of this? because the two men later wrote a detailed deposition. i show this to you so you feel sorry for me. this is vintage seventeenth century handwriting. when it was revealed that a be which girl named her, she was prepared but does she tell you what clothes i have on, she asked. the two men were flabbergasted by the question, seem to have supernatural knowledge so they asked her to repeatedly she assured them she had no for concern, everyone knew how about
she was. you was given to lecturing, not surprised if the devil recruited the first three woman accused. in her estimation they were idle people. the remarkable thing about salem, those who believe themselves to be innocent think the other accused whiches to be guilty. that afternoon my the promised to open the eyes of the magistrates and ministers so they might locate the real which -- witches. her 12-year-old accuser but the girl's mother was also afflicted. a spectral corey nearly tore the older woman to shreds offering her a diabolical pass design. the warrant for corey's arrest went out immediately, she is accused of having committed an acts of witchcraft on one woman and four young says, one of them samuel paris's 12-year-old niece, the notes in black at the bottom is the salem constables
confirmation that he rested corey and she is in custody. this is dated march 15th which was a saturday. because of the sabbath the next day she couldn't be immediately apprehended and that left her time to attend meeting alongside her accusers so before the appalled but that sunday, the higher five spellbound girls and women and that witch suspect, they stood in close proximity, 24 x 35 ft. building, every construction of the village meeting house, you get an idea from also -- how dark it was inside. suspect had to be taken outside to be properly identified. the minister began the service, was interrupted by riding in the pews, the girls demanded he name, complained was too long. one pointed to the ceiling, could see martha corey sitting night in the queue but on the beam above nursing a diabolical cadbury. the next day corey returns to the same room to defend herself,
there was up probable small space, the kind we tend to feel round contagion. minister said he could merely make out by hammering hearts and raise fares on the backs of next. she insisted before the authorities on her innocence, appealed to the lord to open the eyes of the magistrate please they did not appreciate the implication that they were not already clear cited. one asked the question on everyone's mind, how had she known she would be asked about her clothing? she tried to explain but was interrupted, the girls frantically pointed out the devil in the room whispering in martha corey's ear. what did he say to you? she had neither seen nor heard a thing. he urged her to confess, she would not. one of the oddities i should mention about 1692 is those who refused to confess were hand. those who confessed would be spirit which was to say the most
principled and noblest feared the least well. corey was pelted with questions none of which she would answer. would not concede that the girls were bewitched, one of the justices reminded her everyone else around her believe that they were. instead she posed a particular the plaintive question herself. can an innocent person, she asked, the guilty? this is the account of her deposition. the magistrate's first lines are you are now in the hands of authority, tell me why you heard these presents and she replied i do not. the asked to pray, asks three times and three times the request is denied. she insisted she had nothing to do with witchcraft which incensed the crowd. the girls began to yell and mock her replies. when she bit her lip with nervousness teeth marks bloomed on the arms of her accusers. seemed she worked her witchcraft before the court's eyes. by this time two adult women were be which.
in the course of korea's testimony, one of them, of 40-year-old began to howl in pain, she could feel my the corey reaching into her body to hurt her, and threw her across the courtroom, failed to hit her, leaned down to take off one of her shoes wishy through hitting corey squarely in the head. a pain that she had stuck in one of her victims turned up in a child's hair. by the way some pins reportedly preserve from the salem court room. over the next weeks they would protrude from girls and legs, one girl would turn up with puncturing her lips together, binding them together so she couldn't testify. how do we know all of this? from two sources, former village minister was on hand that day, published his wide eyed account of the infestation in april. this is the title page, nothing to alleviate symptoms and we have a lot of the paperwork from
the hearing. this is the deposition of one of martha corey's accusers, 17-year-old elizabeth hubbard. martha korea urged her to sign a pact with the devil, she joked and pinched her, the girl does later bruises. i believe in my heart that mar the core is a dreadful which, the teenagers wears as you see the ink was added later. court testimony is not infrequently edited or expanded upon after the fact. this is a samuel paris deposition against martha corey, you see added the local innkeeper later he has written after the account. corey when to jail that day. would spend a six months in chains awaiting trial, six days after hearing the minister delivered this sermon in the meeting house, march 27th, christ knows how many devils you are, it begins the occasion by dreadful witchcraft, broke out a
few weeks passed and one member of this church and another in salem, a public examination, civil authorities suspected for witches and upon it committed. is the finger pointing sermon in which paris takes the position that would solidify in the weeks to come. we are safe or devil's peak reaches, the bible offers no middle ground. you can imagine what happened next, people remembered things they couldn't explain, often decades old things they couldn't explain. they ban to see neighbo men begin to see neighbors flying through the streets. one man swore his neighbor whipped past tempts with as a burger another wrestled with a black goblin and his partner. again and again while working on this book i thought of the harry potter book. of course, it's happening inside your head, but what on earth should that mean it's not real ask fingers pointed right and left. 60 people were soon jailed. the first game came to trial in
june and the first suspect hanged a week later protesting her innocence a week later protesting her innocence to them. events moved quickly. of rants and reflections multiply. there was a play involving 100 which is, that later grew to 500. here's where the courtroom drama mutates yet again. nap into a horror story. not only for those who spent months roasting and starving in countless filthy prisons. several suspects would die, others would give birth. but begins to emerge from the testimony are details of a diabolical plot. it seems that which is have a ringleader, a minister who is arrested in may. they are intent on a rather grandiose conspiracy. beginning with salem village, which is intended to destroy every church in massachusetts bay and while they're at their intent to subvert the government. this turned up but not until the
epidemic spread andover, the town with the greatest number of which is. by late july the authority's piece together details of his diabolic sabbat sabbath to which is then followed by various forms of conveyance often land in salem village. you can reconstruct this from 50 our testimonies but we have an image. here instead is a 17th century engraving of a german which is the sabbath, a more decorative production but certain things are not what the salem confessors will mention. men and women fly. goblins joined them. a woman tumbles from her mouth. and andover woman crashed as she flew to salem. .. 1692, suddenly everyone was aloft. here is an illustration of 22 years earlier from swedish witchcraft epidemic and from the
book you will see why sweden is essential to what will happen in salem. a woman flies within children in massachusetts, girls of 8 or 9, accused the isn't forcing them to sign pactss with the devil and by late summer, enunciations fly in every direction, but is accused daughters, sisters, parishioners, accuse ministers. one in ten people were accused, mr. cs did not accuse servants, wives did not incriminate husbands, generally usher that women tend to come off better in this story as a group, it was young men who provided the most outlandish testimony but no one ever suffered afflictions without being able to name a which. martha coakley went to her death sheember 2nd, the last hanging. before she hanged she was visited in prison. harris this is his account of thatcount conversations. irritated the condemned prisoner
he was a verymber s laid about women who refuses to prayne with him. it was the 17th century as an accounting from the salem joe did a good jail by september they have executed 14 women, five men and two dogs somewhere between 140 to 180 have been accused. and then as abruptly as it had begun to panic was over. the questions that salem elicits are those of nightmares can an innocent person be guilty, might i be a witch and not know it acquired another suspect. could anyone lead in the summer face a brash widow in her 50s came before the justices in april. she couldn't even say what a witch was. she had the bad luck before
appearing. how can you know that you are not a witch and not know what it is, countered the justice. the story is one part of the brothers grimm. so obviously but we have on our hands is not entirely a fairy tale or courtroom drama or horror story that a thriller. presumably there were no flights through the air or killer cats. presumably know which stuck pins in the girls at appeasing girls and peaceably had peaceably there was no satanic submission with tankers and secrets in the meadow. how then did these things seem to have been? and you tear the whole episode apart you begin to see it makes uncanny sense. the truth to what drives it forward and makes grown men see goblins in the parlors and what results in the unprecedented hundred% conviction rate and only witchcraft panic in american history are the rules
that are stranded between each chapter the book and they reveal entirely on the last pages. the story is a thriller at the book is sent to me at like one for the logic of a dream and the supernatural. the unlikely heroes who will ultimately emerge. we go back again and again for the same reason that it came to pass in the first place. we share the villagers need for resolution and go back to the trials for another reason, too mac we are here helplessly drawn to disasters and as crack ups go this is among the sensational to which so many later missteps would be compared. that is an account of the scale and the circumstances the 1692 witchcraft consisted of the best and brightest. that year was in the broad light of day in the name of god led by the man in the colony who send innocent people to their deaths.
when acquaintances came before the authorities, the authorities doubted not the girls but their longtime friends. this is the chief justice who headed the court. i will give you a hint and tell you that he is not the hero of the story. if you look here he was the most eminent of the authorities and he also died at home nine years after the trial without a word of the regret or apologies. few men do any legal code as well as something else crucial about the panic. it will play much more of a role than ignorance did here. the colony arguably qualified as the best educated community in the history of the world until that time. the new england minister especially increased the matter father and son to whom any member of the authorities appealed for guidance had delved deeply into the literature.
they developed libraries on the subject of witchcraft and if anything they may have read too much. the english prosecutions, they knew of continental variations and continental variations and the skeptics argued that the new with the witches salve looked like. let me make clear that while this was a truly deranged moment in history there was also one that was profoundly significant when the spell breaks they sweep away a layer of faith and the very idea of confession central to the puritanism would be tainted. massachusetts leaders would never again apply to the church for advice. it's complicity cracks open the door to the religious toleration and the trials to change the the beta countries saw new england as well as new england saw himself. no one did more to keep them alive than the south which leader would ashamed of england which is prosecuting whenever new england wanted to talk about slaveowning. today of course the trials and
are a moral guard rail. this is where salem mutates once again to become a cautionary tale. they they stopped us whenever we overreact or overcorrect and overpower reasoned and the experts seem less expert. they remind us of the risk of thinking of ourselves as exceptional. where he is hated and hated most, they asked. satan's appearance in massachusetts seemed to be a badge of honor further proof that new england qualified as the chosen people. i just want to add that salem appeals to me deeply and assembly are in the age of crowd sourced stories and public shaming and the culture bears the remarkable resemblance to the internet won both seen on rumor and neither has much use for truth. the internet turned out to be a brilliant tool for selling mass hysteria and there is no better way to broadcast a zombie apocalypse. the gravity is something i
didn't see at the outset nor did i see on the politics or how much class has to do with it. and at its heart it resembled a fairy tale. it has sexual undercurrents and while it has flying monkeys and village tailors and apples and stepmother is what happens is for 23 years you've been dying to tell the neighbor what you think of her defined as a good christian woman, you just can't. [laughter] in 1692 you suddenly could. it's about what we see when we close our eyes and about how those images involve. sometimes they mutate from this into that. it's touches on what is by no means untrue and like a fairytale, the story of women played play the role with one written by name. strange things indeed happen when you start to write about witchcraft but strange things have been anyway and often the efforts to make sense of the willingness to error this is my willingness and one of the five
materials. but i hope you take from the book is a reminder of how the importance of humility and how easily the world can skid into the sanctimonious it's essential that we keep our heads and question our ideas even if that leaves us bewildered. it is uncomfortable but later sometimes the bostonians noted it is crucial and we would be lost without it. it seems probable almost exactly 200 years after the trials if they were never bewildered there would never be a story to tell about us. thank you. [applause] >> i think we have time for some quick questions, comments, corrections.
>> thank you so much. i heard you in a barnes and noble interview mentioned that it was removed from all the public records and binaries from all different sources. so were these just worn out and was it difficult that they were ripped from the pages or how -- what did this look like? >> that's a great question. it leads one to become conspiracy minded, not that that would that would have been to any old historian or anything. the church record book is rewritten. it's not the first time that it would be rewritten to cover up an embarrassing history. a published sermon in boston simply skipped from over the summer 1692 because he never delivered a sermon that summer. those that we have only in
typescript have gone missing. samuel parris didn't record those only natural causes or incidents that summer so it's very -- and although that happens later again we don't know the circumstances of it so there was a strange conspiracy and a blanket of shame that falls on the entire episode and that is clear from the fighting afterwards but it's hard to say there was an orchestrated attempt of remaining silent and hoping that you could even history. it's an event that no one is speaking out until several generations after it happened. >> that's a very wonderful lecture. thank you. one thing quickly was there any thought given towards things like tetanus because you mentioned males were causing seizures or possibly a hallucinogenic agent like lsd.
>> it sounds like everyone was tripping. those theories have been put forth the fumble and lsd ideas were from 1976. the stories have been repeatedly put forth and generally debunked for the following reasons. some children in the household suffers but some do not. you would think an entire household would be afflicted. more to the point girls are hallucinating or claiming they see diabolical canaries but they are in perfect position of good health and nor does their health deteriorated. so strangely, they seem robust from the beginning of these sections to the end and at one point it would be explained that they do so because the compact with the diabolical match and work affects them like a steroid so they don't get worn down by these tortures. but nothing has ever entirely explain why they would be not only sometimes afflicted but also when they are in the grips
of this whatever it is, why they happen to be seeing exactly what they've heard that they should be seeking. so you would think that if you were actually under the influence of some sort of agent you would be talking about turtles or something that one part of your diet so nothing really explains it. what we think about the theory is devolved any one. >> how do you feel about to the degree and sincerity and belief that these were really witches by the part of the people that were a centrally prosecuting them whether they are politics involved or what? >> i got into this at great length in the book. there was a tapestry of agenda at work here and one of the justices perhaps most of all again as i say the larger mystery is why are we so intent
on prosecution's use of the image and he feels on a crusade that there is a moral obligation to cleanse society of these elements and he does seem to believe that evil is at work. however, there's also every reason not just in the state of total political dislocation in the new government had just been installed in may of 1962 the new governor had been put in place not knowing that there had been a witch. teachers come from england command of not having heard that there was a witchcraft epidemic with which he had to contend, and they cleaned this up and it's very important as is proving that this new government has a legitimacy and can enforce order because of previous couple of years have been anarchic so there is an enormous incentive not only to prop up this administration before the religious authorities to remain hand in glove and for no one to
defend one from the other and that made the account for much of what happens this summer. >> did it stop abruptly or gradually and does the record show why? >> that is a great question and a number of factors come into play. earlier in the year if you have expressed any doubt about the proceedings or about skepticism of witchcraft would be the word with a witchcraft accusation. by the end of the summer tentatively and anonymously various people have begun to express their concerns and it tells you something about the climate at times but even in massachusetts and minister have to make those comments anonymously and by a piece of of software without richer. those concerns of the ministers are putting in petitions come at the crushing of a man under stones which is a gruesome
ordeal has the sheer number of accused people which there were not prisons large enough to accommodate them so there's a number of factors that finally come together. it seems to burn itself out as i fear we are now doing so thank you all for coming. [applause] >> [inaudible conversations] now let's go to chapman hall here at miami-dade college where jon meacham is introduced. book tv on c-span2. >> we are proud to be the sponsor for the miami book fair
here at miami-dade college. it really fulfills two cornerstones for us. literacy and community involvement. so every year during the summer we have a reading program where we give out thousands and thousands of books to students all throughout the footprint remained in florida and we also think the committee events like this one bring together that help people kind of engage in the community are really powerful and impactful and again we are proud to be a sponsor of this year's miami book fair here at the miami-dade college. so without further ado i would like to introduce the next session. jon meacham received a pivot surprise for his 2008 biography called american lion. he's the executive director of random house but also the author of "new york times" bestsellers thomas jefferson, the art of power, american gospel, franklin
and winston. the chum who teaches at standard of university and universities to the south is also a fellow at the society of american historians. his book destiny in power, the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush from random house paints and intimate and surprising portrait of an intensely private man who led the nation through total choice times. from the oval office to camp david, from his study in the private quarters of the white house to air force one, from the fall of the berlin wall to the first gulf war, to the end of communism, destiny and power charged power charge for the power charge for thoughts, decisions and emotions of the modern president who may be the last of his kind. this is a humane story of a man who has like the nation he led
that once noble and flawed. so ladies and gentlemen please help me introduce jon meacham. [applause] thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you. whenever i hear a warm introduction i am inclined to think there is a point to all that. i think back to a national book festival on the mall about six or seven years ago and i was on my way to give a talk about andrew jackson at the time and a woman ran up to me, which doesn't happen enough. [laughter] & my god it's you and i said well yes. [laughter] that's hard to argue with. [laughter] she said i'm such a huge fan will you wait right here and sign my book i said yes ma'am. she brought back john grisham. [laughter]
whenever i am tempted to believe that i am all that, i remember there is somewhere in america a woman with a john grisham book. [laughter] true story. i'm thrilled to be here to talk about george herbert walker bush. this book was 17 years in the making. i first met him in 1998 and almost instantly realized that my caricature of him, which i think was broadly shared around the country was wrong. i must admit i had kind of a dana carvey view of the former president. i had been an undergraduate when he was president. i went to a small college you may also call the suwannee. for those that do not know if it is best understood as a combination of downtime at the end deliverance. [laughter]
and i will confess that during the first gulf war i was friends with someone you may all know he's gone on to greater glory in an name and name to jack daniels. [laughter] so i was a little fuzzy about the 41st president to be quite honest. about meeting him i was immediately struck by his quiet persistent charisma and within a half-hour i understood how he had managed to convince the majority of american voters to entrust him with ultimate authority and if you do what i do which is write biographies of people who ask us to entrust them with the fate of our children and shape of our country and balance in the world, how they get there and make that and then what they do once they are there and how the characteristics and qualities play out for good and ill often
devices and virtues we'll see the vices of our virtues you want to be able to explore a complicated human story and i believe that george robert walker bush is among the most complicated and emotional man who helped the presidency in modern times. he is also one of the most emotional man which was the great surprise to me. he has asked the speechwriter once put it the tear ducts of a sicilian grandmother. [laughter] i began interviewing him in 2006 for this book and the last interview in exchange was on september 8 of this year so it's been a long journey sometimes he was like the world worst wasp on wasp parody. he would cry, i would cry. we would look at the catalog and move on. [laughter] dot the key to this book and
understanding george bush is this remarkable document and audio presidential binary he dictated several times a week in times of crisis which you would think you a drawback and not do so much and he dictated more and he gave me unconditional access to the document. he gave me the presidential binary is with no condition whatsoever and we will get back to what that tells us in a second. the other great building block of this book was the diary she kept from 1948 and forward and the only condition on the whole project the family had no right or review was that any quotation from mrs. bush's diary have to be cleared with her, not the context interpretation. and so i took her 90 pages of excerpts that i have the right to quote. she took nothing off the record
so functionally she gave her approval to everything. but the wonderful thing about that afternoon when she was reading what i brought her every once in a while she would look up and say i was an opinionated 38-year-old and it was all i could do to say the apple doesn't fall far from the chronological tree. [laughter] the silver fox still has plenty of opinions. so this is a porch or it could just be six detailed portrait and the family is obviously essential and the former governor here is obviously a character. but this is the story of the remarkable american who won his 18th on his 18th birthday graduated from high school and drove to boston and took the oath as a naval amnesty to fight in the second world war. he wanted to sign out on december 8, 1941 and join the
royal canadian air force because you could get in quicker because obviously the united kingdom was at war with nazi germany. he decided to wait for graduation of his father and secretary of war was the chairman of the board and over urged the graduates of the school to go to college for a few years to try to make themselves more useful to the long-term war effort. after the graduation ceremonies, prescott bush asked did the secretary's words have any affect on you and george herbert walker bush said no i am going so he got in the car and went to boston. from that moment until this hour -- i understand he's 91-years-old, he has done his best ibb to put the country first. he has done and said things which he isn't particularly proud like all politicians and all human beings.
i don't know about you, but i've certainly done that several this afternoon. and will again before supper. [laughter] the nature of a fallen world. but my argument about george h. w. bush is that he sought power partly because he be beat he was destined to hold control to play a part on the largest of all possible stages. but whatever he did to amass that power, once it was in his hands, he tried to put what he believed to be the national interest ahead of his own political interest and we will walk through some concrete examples. this is not nostalgic or sentimental. it's simply the fact of the matter that this man who ran tough races who didn't always take the positions that we would like him in retrospect to have taken but once he was there he put his own political career at
risk in order to advance the interest of the nation as he saw them, and that is no small tribute to a public man. the diaries which are used extensively really do take you inside the presidency in a way that i've not seen before possibly john quincy adams. i'm sure you were reading those on the waiver. [laughter] there's great audio. [laughter] but, that is unfair to john quincy adams. it was remarkable and we all should read it. they put you in the moment with him and he says things, talks about what it feels like to deal with gorbachev and the fall of the berlin wall, but it felt like to take on saddam hussein, but it felt like to lose to bill clinton in a way that is as
close to the american presidency as i'm ever going to get. and he is such a seemingly buttoned up than. remember when he looked at the watch on his right hand we offer a member of the caricatures. at the supermarket scanner, the watch and the debate in richmond, the seeming inability to connect in a terrible last year for him of his presidency. but in private, he was an incredibly tactile man who ibb used this in a very therapeutic way to do. you're just lucky to be there.
he carried it around in his briefcase and dictated at camp david and studied upstairs and off the oval office. he can't pardon the lightest one that knew it even those close to him knew that he kept his diary through this diary i think we find a man as i would say who always attempted to knowing the political cost of what he was going to do wanted to put america first. let's talk about how he got there. he had two separate forces that always shaped his character and they both came from his mother a formidable woman who once broke her wrist while playing tennis and then finished the match and one. jonathan bush the president's brother told me mother was always gracious in defeat but of
course she never lost so that makes it easier to be gracious and deceit. [laughter] so there was this ambient sense in the bush household that his father was an investment banker and actually a private equity guy. he put together the deal for cbs and brown brothers airmen and his mother who was the daughter of the formidable figure the st. louis moneyman to come to wall street, the big personality , he was received and viewed in the sense that bush's were to compete at all times. one of his old texas political aides told me that years later you never want to play ping-pong at the bush house because it was like a projectile missile coming at you. .. to dinner and the secret service agents were defeated in tiddlywinks in a way they left the bad -- bandages on.
these are people who fight hard and so there was this ambient expectation that the bushes were to compete and to win. always fairly, always within the rules but compete, compete, compete. mrs. bush used to expect them to climb the trees in the yard as high as they could and a neighbor once came over and said mrs. bush i think they're going to call and she said well if they do they will learn something. it was this intense, intense competitive reality. but then mrs. bush talked them and particularly poppy bush, george h.w. bush were never to talk about themselves. would come e fatwa so george >> and so george would come home and say i hit a double and she would say that's great, dear, how did the team did what she said no one wants to hear about
the great i am. she said george, no one wants to hear a bracket in an. and. when he was vice president xi called and after state again and asked him why he'd been reading along what he been reading during president reagan's state of the union. and he said i was reading the text of the speech. she said he was reading it out loud. couldn't you just listen? last night and he never again did it. i think one of the reasons he was occasionally challenged by the english-language which given dana carvey a crew was because these were two competing forces he heard in his head. win, win, win, but don't talk about it, don't talk about it, don't talk about it. it emerged from childhood as this remarkably empathetic figure. his brother jonathan aitken said that his brother had been born with an innate empathy. added back to his childhood
nickname was have half because whenever you to treat or dessert he would cut it in half and give it to the other kid. bennett mcnickle is a key figure in understanding george h.w. bush. bennett mcnickle was a slightly overweight did at the day school got stuck in a barrel on the obstacle course race. and it was poppy bush stopped, went back and pulled him out of the barrel and he finished the race together. and asked then president bush decades and decades later, why did you do that? he said i had never not been paid 14. i've never been stuck in a. but i just don't what if i wasn't picked by what if i was stuck? i would want someone to pull me out. there was innate empathy. so these forces created a remarkably complex adult.
during the war, i believe two other human tragedies shaped the man the window as the 41st president. one was on saturday september 2, 1944. he flew a mission code-named baker in the pacific. he was to take out a radio supply and communications point for the japanese. he was hit by japanese fire. he finished his mission. you drop th the bombs, to the tr out and peeled back out to see. he saw the fire running along the wings. the cockpit filled with smoke. he ordered his two crewmen to bail out. hit the silk, he said. he turned the plane as this post due to enable them to do that. and then he bailed out. he was nearly decapitated. he went out like this and, of course, the plane kept going so i dashed his head on the tail of the plane. another six, seven inches and he would have died right there. he plunges deep into the sea.
fortunately his life raft has fallen nearly. he spends four hours in the pacific but if the wind and tide had been blowing towards the island as a post away from he most likely become a japanese prisoner of war on an island which was famous later for war crimes, including cannibalism which led george bush to say occasionally to barbara that it almost ended up as an order. pashtun hors d'oeuvre. but the loss of those two men were with him every day and still are. i asked the president on a number of occasions if he thought about them every day. and he said yes. and he wept. he had two questions about that that haunted him all these decades later. one was did he do enough to save them? and the answer was yes, technically. and the second was why was i
spared? why me and not them? and i believe that every day since then, since 1944 he has been trying to prove himself commensurate with their sacrifice, that he was worthy of being spared when others were not. the second tragic event was the loss of their daughter robin to leukemia in 1953. she was before. neither george nor barbara bush have heard the word leukemia and other her daughter's diagnosis in the pediatricians office in midland, texas. she survived about six months into the diagnosis and then died in october of 1953. in discussing this the president was invariably emotional and teary. i asked him what he felt would you taken away from and he said that the cheating was that life was unpredictable and tragic. unpredictable and fragile.
again i think combined with his experience in the second world war, he understood that every moment was a gift, that every power was an hour that could be taken away at any point. and i think that helps explain his drive, his essential concern for other people, the sense that we should have a kinder and gentler nation as he would to put it. he was always trying i believe to prove that he was worthy of being spared when his crewmen and his daughter had not been. so he enters public life in 1964, and this is where the story gets complicated. he opposed the 1964 civil rights act. this is an uncomfortable reality. now a piece of american scripture essentially the 64 act is an incredibly important step on the war against jim crow and
the fulfillment ultimately of the jeffersonian promise that we are all created equal. he was running for the senate in texas. he was a goldwater republican. he was uncomfortable with that level of conservatism but he was a very ambitious man. he was a man who had been taught to win, win, win. what does he do when he becomes a member of congress two years later? he's elected to congress in 1966. in 1968 in the wake of the assassination of martin luther king, congress is to vote on a fair housing act to lift racial discrimination from the housing market and bush votes for. this is meant who is representing the seventh district of texas, houston, a republican district. his constituents rose up against him. he went down to memorial high school in houston and faced down an angry angry crowd. words that should not have been used and are never used now were thrown at them.
he quoted edmund burke sank that of representative did not only is constituents simply voting there will, but he owed them his best judgment. and his best judgment was that it seemed evident american soldiers fighting for the country in vietnam and he cannot imagine a world in which they could fight for their country abroad but not by a health whatever they wanted to buy one at home. so we took a courageous stand actually had the power, though he had not been right on the issue early on. it was a pattern that would recur. he was a remarkable public servant from 1970 forward. i believe that distance of washington was formed in those four years in the house. he served from 1967-1971. this is like talking about, so bear with me. george herbert walker bush as a
republican congressman from texas voted with lyndon johnson 53% of the time. can you imagine a republican congressman voting a democratic president or vice versa 53% of the time. you might think that's fine but when nixon comes in office in 69 ambush at two years and house under him, that number must skyrocket and it does. it surged to 55%. this was a man who called them as he saw them and became of age in a washington where republicans and democrats were friends. again this is like talking about the peloponnesian war's, i understand that. three of his best friends were democrats, blood actually of ohio, sonny montgomery of mississippi and damned rostenkowski of chicago. he played handball within. he was in the house sauna with them. that doesn't bear much thinking. but his reality was you
compromised, compromise to him was not a dirty word. moderation was not a dirty word. rather it was the oxygen of democracy. the constitution is based on the premise come on the rally that we are not going to agree all the time. in fact, we're going to disagree most of the time. so getting to 60%, giving head, getting just enough and coming back for more was the reality of george bush's political education. he then went on to the remarkable resume. he was ambassador of the united nations. one road not taken. he was for about 40 minutes in 1971 and aid to bob haldeman. that for chili was undone quickly. he had rather brilliantly made a pitch to nixon. bush wanted to be the u.n. ambassador. nixon wanted to come into the white house. but brilliantly, bush knew what
would appeal to nixon's ego and emotional mindset and the casing me to nixon was you know, no one is up in new york making a case for you. no one is defending an immediate diplomatic and financial service of new york and i can do that. and it was a brilliant thing to say. for here is the polish son of a senator from connecticut saying to the sound of a grocer from yorba linda i want to carry water for you. want to make your case. nixon sat alone in the oval office for a few minutes and decided that bush had been right. that they want him up in new york. there's this second motive which a piece of news in the book for the real dorks out there, like me. nixon wanted him to forgo living in ambassadorial apartment on the 42nd floor of the waldorf astoria was neighborhood was mrs. douglas macarthur. also the home of herbert hoover for many years to come and
wanted the bushes then moved to greenwich, establish residency and bush would run for the second against abe ribicoff, a family vote in 1972. bush at that point i believe himself a texan. his journey to texas in 1948 was absent essential to his life. without that i didn't believe he would've been president of the china. he would've been in new england republican and we know how many there are of those mythic there are four come and maybe they are here. [laughter] it's like episcopalians, there are only six of us left. we can vote on anything with four people. but he believed himself to be a texan. on his trip down there he had stopped for barbara and george david camp on a plane later. he drove a red studebaker and stopped in abilene for lunch and it ordered chicken fried steak not knowing if the chicken fried
like a stick or steak fried like a chicken last night so he ordered a couple of lone star beer's and it didn't matter at that point. saw himself as a texan, and it moved, it's interesting he had moved at the political center of gravity of the country was moving south and west, bush moved south and west. and so he comes to run for president in 1980 against ronald reagan. he won second prize but he won the iowa caucus and was very nearly not on the ticket. this is a story of a man who almost in many different points if things have broken this way or that way would have been a political order of. pashtun hors d'oeuvre. he barely made on the ticket. and incomes in 1980 campaign. this is the second example. the 1980 campaign was not a league of women voters, pbs model of high-minded discussion of the issues. without question.
but once bush won, i also believe that he was not a rake and a third term. that's not i think a fair way of putting it. the exit plan from 1980 campaign shows that 50% of the country did not want the country to go on the way it had under reagan. 50% debt. so it was as though there was this great 75, 80% of the country that wanted reaganism to continue. bush intense enough people as he had his entire life that their fates would be safe in his hands. so what does he do when he becomes president after this hard-hitting race against governor dukakis? he tries to we create the world that you don't as a congressman. a culture of compromise, culture what the president through the doors of the white house openness lyndon johnson had done. it produced for several years results if you would take
polaroid once the pictures of congressman on the lincoln bed to charm them. a polaroid one step of young people in the audience was early social media. [laughter] totally parenthetically. i was teaching a class at vanderbilt and for some reason the conversation fell to student newspapers. i described how we used to cut collins of type out and pasted a young woman racer and answered all my god, that's where cut and paste came from a. [laughter] it's tough being middle aged. [laughter] she did, god bless her or as we say where i come from, god bless her heart. what did we get? we got the americans this does achterberg of the clean air act which is still functionally our environmental policy. work of the 1990 budget agreement which helps set the
conditions for the prosperity of the 1990s. all of these things george bush did. working with democrats in congress against the interest and against the will frankly of his own right wing. he had run a tough campaign to become president. the moment he became president he saw that as ancient history. he always pushed his hand out when things, ancient history. one of the great things to write a book about george bush is the number of people you get to talk to. in the course of a single hour tthis simplifies fact-checking i spoke with henry kissinger, dick cheney and dana carvey totally in character last night so i'm still not sure but it may depend the president. not kind of do it. [laughter] -- not going to do it. so i asked, i asked carvey, how did you come to form the impression? he said the key to george h. w. bush is imagine mr. rogers trying to be john wayne.
[laughter] and it's a brilliant description. unleash orgy of death. need to maintain a doing bush is not a good thing. there's a key moment that tells you about the politics we have now. when john tower failed to become secretary of defense in 1989, george bush asked dick cheney to leave the house leadership and become the second defense. that opened the way for young congressman from georgia, you may have heard of, named newt gingrich who became the republican with. bush invites gingrich and then weber, congressman from minnesota who would run gingrich's campaign in the house caucus to come down to the white house for a beer. they can tell that there is something that bush is not saying but once too. and so finally after beginning
to leave weber says, mr. president, tell us what we wish you most about it. and bush said without hesitating, i worry that sometimes your idealism may get in the way of what i think of as self-governance. let me repeat that. i worry that sometimes your idealism make it in the way of what i think of as sound governance. that is the encapsulation of what's happened in the ensuing 25 years. and weber who told the star general to point out he always appreciated that bush had said idealism. he didn't say purity. he didn't say ideology. he didn't say nuttiness. he gave them credit that that was their idealism. that's what happened when the right wing rebelled against george bush in the summer of 1990. and he began at that point a
slight on his domestic political standing that ended with his defeat in 1992. but he knew that that would happen. so breaking to read my lips no new tax was another example, for example, was civil rights critical to of compromise. he knew he would be as adobe wants politically i was going to be dead meat. but he thought the interest of the nation required. i think the lesson that george herbert walker bush's life is that no political life is perfect but one should be judged on the whole and what one does when one actually holds power. and by that standard he is a great and consequential president. i want to leave you with this. this is as close as i can come to give you a sense of what i think of is this man who i don't think enough people know. this is a letter that president, george bush wrote in the late 1950s to his mother about
robin, the daughter whom they lost to leukemia. the boys were all at that point, neil and marvin had been born but he wrote this after a day in new york robin had been buried in greenwich and she was very much on his mind. so these are the words in the late 1950s of george h. w. bush about his daughter. there is about our house the need. the running, pulsating restlessness of the four boys as they struggle to learn and grow needs a counterpart. we need some starchy crisp rocks to go with her blue jeans and homeless. we need some soft blonde hair to offset those crew cuts. we need a dollhouse to stand firm against our force and rackets and baseball cards. we need someone who will scramble, who were not just
scribble to catch the elusive ball and ever move forward but usually butting against the screens. we need a legitimate christmas angel. one who doesn't have cuffs beneath the dress. we need someone who is afraid of frogs. we need someone to cry when i get mad, not argue. we need a little one to be kissed without leaving fake or jam or gum. we need a girl. we had one once. she would fight and cry and play and make her way just like the rest, but there was about her a certain softness. she was patient. her hugs were just a little less legally. like them should climb in to sleep with me but somehow she would fit. she didn't boot and flip and wake me up with diagnosed and mr. schwab eyes challenging a quarter inch from my sleeping face. no, she would stand beside our
bed until i felt her there. silently uncomfortable she put those precious fragrant locks against my chest and falsely. per piece made me feel strong and so very important. my daddy had a caress, a certain ownership which touched a slightly different spot than the hi, dad i love so much. but she is still with us. we need her and yet we have or. we can't touch her and yet we see a. we hope she'll stay in our house for a long, long time. i asked the president to read that letter out loud to me in the course of our interviews. and long before he finished he broke down with a level of physical sobbing, so much so that his chief of staff whose next-door that his chief of staff who is next door her into the open office door and came in and she asked me, why did you want president bush to read that? and i said, well, if you want to
know someone's heart, and before i could finish the sentence the president said, you have to know what breaks it. thank you. [applause] thank you. thank you, thank you. thank you. we have time for two questions and then ted koppel. yes, sir? >> when you wrote the book, were you aware, was he aware that the firestorm, the quotes about rumsfeld and cheney? and could you please do one more
any party speak with i appreciate that. i'm not sure he appreciates that. one side of his a sense of humor is after the 92 defeat he invited dana carvey to the white house to do the imitation and he spent the night. he did criticize vice president cheney and secretary rumsfeld. it offered a critical observation about his son's use of rhetoric along the way. he made comments initially timid in the fall of 2008 and repeated them along the way over the next four years. before publishing i took them to president bush 43 to i took them to vice president cheney, i do think it runs so. the book includes there is boxes except secretary rumsfeld who did not want to comment. so yes, i certainly knew they would.
and in december of last year a i took them back to president bush and said i can't come as they say in the legislative branch, i can't let you replace your remarks, but if you want to extend them your that is, if you want to say i said this seven years ago in passions have cooled and every thought it i will certainly note that. i'm not taking it off the record but i would note that you changed your mind. he looked at me dead in the eye and said that's what i said. and so i believe that he said these things because he believes in the historic record. i believe that's what he cooperated a celebrity cooperated with me. the possibilities that he did the best he possibly could, and that clear eyed historians and hopefully a clear eyed broad posterity will see that. >> thank you for the talk.
so jefferson, jackson, roosevelt and bush, you've written books about all four of them. the only difference is that only one of them you could ask a follow-up question. >> how do you know that i'm not like jack nicholson in the shining? [laughter] spent based on today's performance i would put you close with robin williams. so the question is, that observation, that most of present a series of unique insight and access, but a series of unique challenges professionally and personally for you to writ write the book because in addition to bush caring for you to let you do it, you seem to care for him. so how did you balance those? >> fabulous question. i struggled with that for more than a decade. the final test had to be, and this is why i have worked to the
very last moment on the manuscript, random house send armed guards come special forces came to my house in nashville to get the manuscript. it was like "zero dark thirty," the literary version last night people coming in the windows. they were very patient with me. patient in tribulation as st. paul said. i think that what had to make sure of is in my heart and mind did i believe that i'd come as close as possible as i could as a biographer to the truth about this man and what he did. now, i believe i did. i'm confident in my heart that i have done that. the question you were racing is, and what worries me again for more than a decade was would i be able to call them as i saw them? frankly would i be able to throw a biographical bunch what i thought they deserved to be called to account. i believe that i did that.
i find iran-contra to be a dark chapter. i believe that his strange under appreciation, to put it kindly, of rhetorical requirements of this office to be a signal failure, his conduct of the presidency. for three days after he broke the no new taxes pledge he did not appear to explain this to the american people. ..
so i did worry about that and the other thing which is as a book lover you will appreciate is that it did present a different literary challenge, which was this. if i'm describing thomas jefferson at the dinner, i've never had dinner with thomas jefferson so if i write a couple paragraphs i find to be sufficiently coherent and elegant i can say that's what it must have been like to have dinner with thomas jefferson but describing someone as complicated i believe him to be a charismatic figure and someone that would agree to that claim
with skepticism. robert asked me about this a couple weeks ago and said he had used the word around the office he asked some of the people i worked with him would you ever think of the word charismatic when you thought of george h. w. bush and they all said no. so i said have they ever met him and to some extent that's fair on my part and the presidential leadership cannot be predicated upon his meeting 335 million people. so i think we call into account on that. but these were challenges and i've written about the living and about the data coming and i hope that you all will find this portrait to be fair and compelling because i believe
ultimately george bush is a fair and compelling man. thank you all very much. [applause] ♪ [inaudible conversations] you have been listening to jon meacham talk about his book on george herbert walker bush destiny and power the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush. now regular book tv viewers will know that we taped and events the last week or two weeks ago with jon meacham talking with president george w. bush that's available to watch on the
website at booktv.org. coming up in a few minutes, ted koppel will be talking about his book the cyber attack a nation unprepared surviving the aftermath. that's what's coming up and after that, an opportunity with wall street journal columnist peggy noonan. so that's what's going to come in the meantime. i would like to get your reaction 748-8200 those of you in east and central time zone for those of you in the mountain and pacific and you can also text and opinion if you would like just include your first name into and the city that you're choosing from a. don't call that number that's just for text messages and we
will take as many as we possibly can. just to let you know we are beginning at 10 a.m. eastern time live coverage with the journalist talking about their book both memoirs and after that we are going to talk with luther campbell who used to be known in the book of luke and then followed by the opportunity there and throw it under the omnibus and finally tracey stewart and jean bauer are talking about animal welfare and the conversation happening finally leonard pitts talking about their books if book so that is our coverage for
tomorrow. this is the third or fourth time that we have seen him talk about the book and never once has he mentioned about iran contra and i'm looking here at the contrite and he summarizes what he knew and when he knew it so it was clear that he got would "in all sorts of meetings about when it was being sought through the arms of arms sales to a ryan.
>> i would like -- >> you say that you appreciate george bush 41 more today. why didn't you vote for him back in 88 and 92? >> my first was in 1980 and i was raised for the family and we were sort of democrats and i voted that way and so my first three or four elections were that way and now i decided i was no longer going to be a cheerleader for any party to look at the person and look what's going on and that enabled me to actually begin to look back at the people i voted for and look at them differently so that's why.
>> thank you for calling in today. i also enjoy c-span to very much so i want to compliment you folks offering all this excellent nonfiction material available to us. i was born in 49 and i was absolutely shocked. personal integrity. president bush at that time had him being a in being a member of clinton's generation i knew he did not he's a charismatic man, yes that's not a man of personal
integrity. and that's one of the things i have appreciated about president bush 41 is a man of personal integrity i think back to history president washington was a man of personal integrity who would make a choice he was asked to be king and he said no that is not what we would do. trust what you wrote and choose a new president and i look at president bush 41 in kind of the same tone of character where he was willing to say i want to serve my country the best i know how at this time and i like how he did try to go across party lines.
as i said i voted for bush 41. it was a man that i felt did not have personal integrity doubles of course president clinton and i tend to buy it and read it, so thanks very much. >> thanks for calling in from marysville washington. if you can't get through the phone lines we have a couple minutes left before ted koppel (202)717-9684. r