tv After Words CSPAN January 11, 2016 12:00am-1:01am EST
to you? it's really, you can't get in the heads of these people, but, but looking at it from where we do, this is bizarre. it's hard for a bizarre situation like that to untangle its logic because we just can't see it. we can't grasp fundamental motivation, at least i can. i can describe it or discuss it but i can't get it and i could never place myself in that situation. i don't think anybody in this room could either. >> i use betsy in the book, she was the daughter of general
styler who was one of the great albany families that sort of ruled new york and he was a rich man and heavy in the revolutionary army. when eliza appeared before hamilton at a little christmas party in the wilderness during the war, he's absolutely transfixed. i don't know what he is seeing? is he seeing money or beauty or ceasing kindness or what? it's not obvious. he had written this odd letter that i go on about in the book to his great friend john lawrence who was the fellow aid in which he described in detail the characteristic of the woman that he seeks.
it's a particularly complicated letter first because it's so literal that it seems childish. it's almost like this inch bust and that inch hips, it's like that. but he also had written another letter to lawrence that had all the earmarks of a really heavy schoolboy crush. that's where he referred to his love for lawrence that went beyond his love for anybody else. it's actually a letter that gay rights groups have captured for the internet to show that hamilton was gay. it's possible, i think were all a little bit gay, well not all of us, but anyway, that's all to say that his interest in eliza was complex. that does not deny the fact that eliza, i would say say is the
moral center of his universe. and one of the moral centers of the universe in which he acted. she was the kindest most loving, most forgiving, forgiving, most understanding woman that one could ever know. what she put up with from herm men is extraordinary. it's the most and piercing revelation about this love affair that he had with a tramp, basically and that schieffer gave him for that. she didn't even mention it to him practically as far as we know and that allowed him to come back into the bosom of the family which he craved. when he died, in this dual that killed her to witness and experience having seen her oldest son be killed in the exact same manner before, that must have been so galling and yet she lived out the rest of her day bent on redeeming and affirming his memory. no man would be higher than in
alexander hamilton in her mind. it's a glorious thing. >> thank you for a wonderful talk. it's been so enjoyable. my question is about to what extent were duels commonplace? was this dual between two high positioned government officials unusual in 1804? >> no, it was not unusual. i unusual. i don't know what the count was, but i would venture to say that in the 30 year period, surrounding 1804, there were probably 100 duels that were fought in the greater new york area. all of them by the way in new jersey because you can do things in new jersey that you can't do in manhattan, even though they
are equally illegal. so they would go across and do their battle and they would assume that everything would be fine. in this case, of course it wasn't. there was this code that doesn't exist today because honor doesn't exist and therefore the need to defend it doesn't exist. for that reason, it's just unimaginable to us. at that time it was so ritualized and so automatically automatic. i think there were duels because there was an etiquette of dueling. there was a process of dueling. nobody would've thought to have a tool to settle this. they knew this was done and therefore it was done. think this happen that time where it's sort of a cult situation where culture buys into a notion that with any
other time or any other group of people would seem utterly bizarre and yet to them it was is as inevitable as sunrise [applause]. thank you. thank you very much. thank all of you. there are copies of his book if you would like to purchase one of the front hall and he would be glad to sign them. we welcome you to come up and take a look at the letters we have up here. you want to become a member, the brochure brochure is out in front. thank you. [inaudible conversation]
>> on this weekends "after words", james rosen of fox news examines the political career of dick cheney. he's interviewed by dana perino. >> james, i've been waiting for this moment where i could interrogate you. it's a pleasure. i've known you for a long time. when i was at the white house and that fox where we were callers. we are both readers and authors because this is a joy for me. i spent an entire week and thinking i knew everything i needed to know about dick cheney because i worked under him for eight years, but what you help provide pulling back the curtain of what you call america's most
controversial basement. i wanted to start there. do you think dick cheney as his role of vp and even after the administration, do you do you think he is the most controversial statesman? i think a fair case could be made for that. as i write in the book, no one on the right has attracted more from the left then dick cheney with the possible exception of richard nixon. i think there are very logical reasons for that in a sense. here's a man who stood at or near the pinnacle of power in this country for nearly four decades. you don't stick around at those levels unless you're really good and really effective and i think that's why the left has had such an obsession with dick cheney. you see it even in barack
obama's comments. it was a joke but it speaks to dick cheney's extraordinary influence on our time in the central role that he occupies in the universe of brock obama. >> caller: tell me about getting interview. >> host: dick cheney was a reluctant interviewer. how did this come about that you got a chance to spend several hours with him, longer than he agreed to and he opens up about everything? >> caller: there is a back story here as you know from our dealings way back win. i covered the bush cheney white house for fox news in real-time. i traveled the world with dick cheney on the air force one freedom plains. we went to europe together in
the middle east. these are situation where you're hitting ten countries in eight days and we also went to iraq, afghanistan and pakistan. at the end of 2005 and pakistan, fox news was supposed to get an interview on the ground. it took place on the side of a snowy mountain in pakistan. she felt the setting wasn't right and she was very upset in the end. then steve schmidt who was running vice president cheney, announced they were cutting the trip short because it was believed that the vice president needed to break a tie breaking vote. they assured me that we get back to washington, you're going to get this interview with the vice president. we won't forget and we won't let anyone interfere. were going to do this. of course as soon as air force
one touchdown just outside of washington, everyone promptly forgot about james rosen scheduled interview with dick cheney. >> host: i wouldn't of forgotten >> caller: no, you wouldn't of. regrettably this didn't involve you. we sat down with the purpose of explaining how and why the vice president had come to shoot his friend in his face in a hunting trip. i thought to myself, it's going to be a long time time before you get to sit down with this man. fast forward, nine years. i ran into him at a party in washington. after enjoying some readings from the president vice president about my recent involvement, i said sir if we
were to amortize the seven 1/2 minutes i would've received from you in 2005, i think thousand five, i think we'd be up to something like 28 hours. he said talked to luke. let's do something. it turned out to be lunch for two hours, just the two of us where we sketched out history. in the end we agreed to do six hours in three days. in the end, instead of six hours we went closer to ten hours. >> host: let's go back to the beginning. one of the things i've always administered admired about dick cheney, i lived in wyoming and people assume i met him growing up, but i didn't. i've always appreciated what i consider consider his western sensibility. he talks about growing up out west and i wonder if you could talk about, of all the people you, do you see a difference in
somebody that grew up in the setting that he did compared to others who grew up on the coast? >> caller: this is an important part that you've brought up. to the extent that dick cheney has been depicted as withholding , allusive and maybe even menacing, i think a lot of it has to do with who does the writing about to cheney. for the eastern ear, the way that westerners like to hear dick cheney talk, in fact, my experience has been that dick cheney tells you exactly what he thinks but he does it with the westerners classic economy of words. he hides in plain sight. he has won the most most conservative voting records in the house. he had a low key style.
is able to talk to the opposite side of the aisle and within his own party. he is low-key, not attention seeking and direct and clear. >> one of my favorite things about being in meetings with him is how he was very quiet. that can be intimidating because you don't know what they're thinking or doing but i saw an interview with him that said he learned that when you work with force, it's better for the principals not to weigh in on the middle of the discussion when you have a policy time meeting. as soon as the principal says something, that will shut down conversation and people want offer their conversation. it wasn't that he was being
secretive, i think he was listening. >> he's a good listener but he understands that it doesn't always take place in the debate center. sometimes it happens in the oval office. >> host: the other day i was talking to someone in preparation for this interview and saying how much i enjoyed the book because it is very good. he was saying back in the day on capitol hill when the wyoming delegation with cheney was there, they were the most powerful delegation in the congress at the time. i don't think a small state like wyoming has had something like that ever since. >> caller: they were probably knitted up better than most delegations. for years, he was the sole member of congress from wyoming.
his career is remarkable before the age of 40. then he had his first heart attack. from the age of 18 where he's an admitted screwup, tell me how does he get from the age of 19 - - 34. that trajectory is quite amazing >> caller: there's very few stories like it, quite frankly. i interviewed her in the year 2000 for an oral history project they asked me to prepare and oral history of dick cheney's life. that was a fascinating project. i asked mrs. cheney and it was
suggested that your the brains of the operations. is that true? >> it was sort of a linking reference to the vice presidents on this english to -- undistinguished manner. he was originally born in nebraska and raised in wyoming. he had never been farther east than chicago. one of the things that disappoint you is that there's no big sky. he fell in with a high-spirited group of people. he tells me and cheney 101 about he and his college roommate had a situation where all for the
bedroom floors open up to a common area. they decided to use one bedroom as a bar and he drank too much beer. his buddies collapsed and he racked up to do duis by the time he was 19 years old. he tells me in the book, this was the wake-up call. he didn't have to completely give up drinking but he had to set his paths straight. he is paying his own way through the university of wyoming, $96 $6 a semester at the time. he finds his own way. he got straight a's.
he eventually found himself working for a congressman who went to work in the administration and his name was donald rumsfeld. this guy who at 19 had been waking up at a jail in wyoming was the chief of staff of the president of the united states. it really is a remarkable story. >> host: did he form his political ideology before yale or after? >> caller: i think as of his time at yale he hadn't devoted to much thought to politics as well at all. i think he probably shared some of the conservatism of westerners. his father worked for the soil conservation service which is a federal agency. >> host: did his sister spend a summer working for the federal government?
>> caller: . that's correct the only cause i regret that i heard dick cheney utter in ten hours of interviewing him had nothing to do with 911 or iraq or afghanistan or any of those things, he said he wished instead of political science when he was in college that he would've studied history because he is a deep lover of history's. he said he wished he'd studied history because government
really is, it's not a science, it's art. it is the adaptation of lessons of past case studies and history. that's. that's what it is. my only real regret is that he hadn't been a history major. >> host: when he was asked by students, if if i want to become a political pundit or a columnist one day, what should should i study in journalism school. he said don't go to journalism school, you should study history. in th book, the vice president even said to this day that reading history book and seeing the parallels, and he, and he talks a lot about marshall actually. >> caller: the interesting thing about that is that i sensed a touch of despair in dick cheney by virtue of the fact that it's getting a bit harder, given the circumstances of the 21st century to find useful lessons from the past to be applied today. because of the unique constellation of problems we face, not only in the nuclear age but 21st century features.
>> host: that caught me because we are talking a lot about how to deal with lone wolf terrorist who might be radicalized by the internet and using encryption devices in order to communicate. if you're looking to history to try to guide you, there's very little except for being ready to act. i thought that was very astute thinking. the fact is, even when we set aside domestic attacks like we saw in san bernardino, again we are having asymmetric warfare practiced against our forces. the united states has yet to demonstrate that we can
decisively win and asymmetric war. >> one of the reasons that he is controversial is because after 9/11, they asked our intelligent community to do some very difficult things to help protect us. >> does he know how controversial he is? does it bother him. >> caller: i finally allowed the words darth vader to escape my lip. i asked if that character of him will prevail in memory of him. he is widely misunderstood. he said in essence he feels very grateful and privileged to have taken place and that he doesn't feel sorry about himself about the way people view him but he
doesn't spend a lot of time dwelling on how people view him. >> there's a part in the book where he talks about, it was on page nine in your introduction, the question you ask is it fair to say that your influence on his decision-making waned in the second term? i appreciated his answer because i thought it showed such humility that by the time there is a second term the president is more surefooted and his experience that he brought to the table was may be even more necessary in the first term than the second term. is that how you took that? >> caller: yes but if we accept your version of things, he said,
no one gave me any guarantees. it can be overstated. that is most -- as the vice president points out, they were on the same page when the surge interact was concerned. even though, quite strikingly, came down on donald rumsfeld. >> host: the white house was a lonely place at the time. they had to convince many people he's pretty open about his differences of opinions with condoleezza rice. i don't see it as personal. that's what i took away from one-on-one.
>> caller: in all administration so be complex with personality and ideology and its a healthy part of the process. there's no question that he clashed with colin powell and condoleezza rice. he said it never became personal. i think they still have a cordial relationship today. with powell it did become personal and there is no relationship there today. i think i sense some regret on cheney's part that it turned out that way. the irony is that a decade earlier when he was defense secretary the two had served quite well together and help to lead the country to victory in the gulf war. a decade later, that relationship didn't survive. did he express any regret about how the first war ended? >> caller: know, i think that is
one of the last clear cut victories for the u.s. military. if it wasn't for them it wouldn't be so. one of the things he talked about in the book is that there was a culture in the pentagon where so many of the officers had cut their teeth during vietnam when the leadership didn't quite backup the military like it should have. there was great hesitation to act on the part of the military and senior ranks of the military. one of the things that cheney and george hw bush worked hard on doing was ensuring the military officers they would have their men in the field and have the support they needed from the civilian leadership. >> host: what about the personal side of things with his family? some politicians go through their entire career and keep themselves, they keep them families at a distance. i think that's true for somebody like paul ryan. a lot of people don't know that
his wife is janet and their kids , but liz and mary were very active not only on the campaigns but also in the administration. i admired how close he was to his daughters. does he talk about that in his interview? >> caller: there are only three people that dick cheney is close with and they're all named cheney. liz cheney, as you you know served in the bush cheney administration and the state department in a very important role. she has been a co-author on two of his books i think he derives comfort from having his family around him. i think it is a source that
occasionally differences of of opinions between his daughters seep out into public view one of the most personal subjects that we touch on is his daughter mary's decision to come out to him. that was in the airport. this really struck me as fascinating because i knew it would be sensitive to ask him about it. it had been used in a campaign improperly by the kerry campaign in 2004. but in his own memoir, he is telling us he is writing a personal memoir. i said there are only two things in the whole book about this moment when your daughter comes out to you. in essence she tells you and you respond simply that you love her and whatever makes her happy makes you happy and that's fine. i said that seem to me to be a
great place of equanimity. was this not exactly a surprise to you? they said it is. somehow before that moment you had major way so that you could respond the way you did. a lot of parents out there may not be in that place. what advice would you have for them to get to that place they could respond as you did? . he first made it clear that he hadn't intended to write a book of advice for parents of gay children. he then did tell me that it wasn't a surprise it wasn't something that we all knew that we didn't talk about. i found it striking because even in the age when the discussion wasn't as prominent in everyday life as it is now, chances are if your daughter is a lesbian, you probably have some inkling of it. the fact that he really didn't strikes me that he was, at that time someone who is deeply immersed in his career.
he said there is a time in my life where i thought how well you did at something had to do with how many hours you put in. i had a feeling he was putting in a lot of hours and drinking a lot of coffee and that he was surprised by this news. >> host: could you touch a little on his health? this is a person who runs an amazing career in politics and another in the private sector and gets recruited back into politics and as far as i no, he never intended to be the vice president of the united states. he tells jokes that the best way to be the vice president of the united states is to lead the search committee. >> caller: because he led the search committee, a lot of people questioned that matter.
the fact is, and george w. bush backs them up on this, he twice said no before succeeding on the third try. to go back to your question, about health, in addition to his career over four decades, this man has exercised tremendous impact on how we lead our lives in america. there's also the fact that he is a singular creature. doctors can point to other people walking along planet earth today that have had five heart attacks and a transplant. doctors cannot point to anyone else walking around on the planet who had his first cardiac event in the 1970s and still around. every advance has been made over the years somehow, in a cardiac
for stump way, dick cheney was there. everything you can do to a heart patient, he's had done to him. >> host: one of the things you're always frustrated with is when they're reluctant to talk about themselves but i always knew the cheney's were a generous people. they don't talk about it. one of the things i know know they do is provide the heart defibrillators to all the places of worship in washington dt d.c. i always thought he was a lot more generous than anyone gives him credit for being. >> caller: you mentioned his business career. he was ceo of halliburton. that has given rise to decades of completely baseless speculation about him being a profiteer on the decision to go
to war. it's worth pointing out that the most prosecutorial book about him was published in 2009 by a respected washington journalist. it's the kind of book that takes every sequence of events and draws the darkest conclusion about cheney's role in each matter as he proceeds. it's a well reported book but even barton came to the conclusion after a vast review of the man's career that there is no reason ever to think that dick cheney ever ever did anything in his political career to profit. in fact he took a substantial loss to leave halliburton and go back into government. >> host: you talk to him and maybe he'll explain his dishes decision. it was quite different than george w. bush, to be vocal and
a credit of the successor. why does he do that? >> caller: i think he's a fighter by nature. i think he is also in a setting where the man he served, who is at the top of the ticket has followed his own father's practice of abstaining from criticism. that leaves dick cheney to venture into the arena to serve as the chief defender as the bush cheney legacy. he has continually asserted that the problems he faces as commander in cherry chief are byproducts. that calls out the defense for someone in that administration. he knows he carries unique
gravitas. i think he feels comfortable in that role. >> host: in talking with him, what do you think he wants his legacy to be or does he not worry about it? spee3 we got good insight on this the other day. i had the privilege of unveiling the marble bus at the capital. it was attended by joe biden, former president george w. bush, the majority leader and cheney spoke "after words". at the end of his remarks, he said if anyone walking through the statuary hall in the capital ground should ever call to linger in front of this piece of me for more than five seconds, i
hope they come away knowing at least this much, that here was a believer in the united states of america. i think think that is our indication of how he wants to be remembered. >> barb:. >> host: does he worry about his legacy? >> caller: no. he has never had his missing index finger to the wind. >> host: one thing i always think about politicians is you see people who have worked for the first decades, you know there is a strong amount of loyalty there and it goes both ways. did you talk to anybody outside that had worked for him over the years before you talk to him? >> caller: i just signed a bunch of books for someone who bought 32 of them.
that is a model for you all to follow. this is a former staffer of cheney's. he is one of four people who is called the old staff which is to say he worked for dick cheney in the house of representatives in the department of defense and the office of the vice president. i think there are for those people left today. he does inspire great loyalty among his staff but in terms of the relationship between him and george w. bush, you talk about how much loyalty is prized by the president of the united states, in cheney 101, cheney tells me that his relationship with george w. bush is central. he had sworn he would not run for the presidency himself. when he received advice he always understood that it was being offered without 1i cast on
how it may or may not help him four years ahead in the iowa caucus. that was really important to bush. >> host: did he see that in previous presidencies? >> caller: of course. he said it was essential that bush never had to worry about whether there was a political tinge in the advice that he was giving him. >> host: how much did watergate affect his thinking? >> caller: one of the aspects in our interview where he came away understanding himself a little bit more was how profoundly watergate shaped his thinking and his future career. dick cheney made it his personal project when he was vice president. he wanted to do everything he could to restore the powers of the presidency, that he saw having been improperly eroded during vietnam and watergate. this took concrete form.
whether it was his legal posture in the fight over the notes from his energy committee or war powers after 9/11 or other areas of policy, dick cheney always approached it from the point of view that the executive has to be strengthened. it has to be restored. for the times of crises and challenges that he and george w. bush were facing. >> host: what about the day of 911, i'm always interested to hear all the viewpoints of the people that were there, living in new york i met a lot of people who were here that day. one of my friends on the bar at that time and stayed open continuously for several days just to make sure that everybody had what they needed. back at the white house, the president of the united states is traveling and cheney is there in the situation room. what did he tell you about that?
>> caller: in cheney 101 he really outlines the day of 9/11. it's very riveting. you have to understand that all of us as americans shared in 911 in some way or 11 another. my parents were bound out of their apartment building in manhattan. we all felt a sense of brief shock or anxiety. we felt terrified. only one american that day had it rest on his shoulders. that was while president bush was hopscotch and throughout the country looking for a secure place to land. that was dick cheney. it tells about how he was sitting in his office and the secret service agents bust into his office and drag him out of
his office, down to the presidential emergency operations center. it's a bunker below the white house. cheney was stunned. he said the entire senior staff was stunned. he used an interesting phrase. he said we all felt a sense of shock and off. that's usually a phrase affiliated with the rockwall war. iraq war. they were trying to ground all the flights in get their hands around this. they're also getting false reports about pipe bombs and so on. but cheney kicked in immediately and helped him assume that burden. if you look at the photographs that were taken in the bunker that day, there is important people that day.
but the body language in the photographed is unmistakable that the lead person in the room, the undisputed authority is dick cheney. what den for him was classified training that he received as a congressman akin the 80s. that was when the united states was -- the first precept of which when you want to keep the continuity of the government and keep the government operating its to provide the preserve the line of succession. the very first piece of advice that dick cheney gives george w. bush on 911 is static washington. don't come back here until we know what were dealing with. some people, when when they hear that they think it's because he wanted to assume the power of the day. what you're exhuming is no he
wanted to make sure we had a president who was here. >> that's right. he kept in close contact as much as he could. one of the most sensitive things you can ask him about, and i went into some detail with him on this is the shoot down order. this is something that dick cheney, i don't think anybody even asked him about it since 911 with the exception of the commissioners on the 911. he authorized and instructed the military to shoot down the airliner that crashed. there is a tape recording of that conversation and a fairly stunned donald rumsfeld can be cured saying on whose authority? he does not stand in the military chain of command.
the president of the united states gave me that authority in an earlier phone call. none of them record in the appropriate any such conversation between bush and cheney. in an interview he shifted his story about all that. i was determined to ask him about it. i said do you understand why even people who are supporters of yours and admirers have a problem with this because it places you in what is a very unusual position. he said look, there's been been confusion we've never been able to pin down l the calls and exact time, but this was one of the reasons why we were interviewed jointly by the 911 commission.
>> host: password to a rock. what does he say about the false accusation that he lied or was complicit in a lie about intelligence? >> one of the harshest assessments of dick cheney's role in the iraq war and his relationship came from condoleezza rice and her memoir. we had staggered our conversation so that the last they would be reserved for 911, rack and something i called cheney addresses his critics in history. i simply read to him the things that had been written about him. he disputed what condoleezza rice said about his handling of classified intelligence. he then went on to respond in kind and talk of about it at
great length. it's all in the book. he also wants people to be reminded of the work of the commission that was established in 2004 to investigate how the intelligence community has gotten so wrong. that report concluded that there was not a single instance where policymakers had pressured policymakers to come up with the right conclusion on rack. i think it's fair to contrast the conclusion of the panel. today we have the pentagon and instruct inspector general intelligence reporting on isis.
it's been routinely sanitized on its way up the chain of command. that's far more serious and systemic problem is the manipulation of intelligence in the national security area. >> host: one of the things that bush and cheney were determined not to do was to blame the intelligence community for anything. i think that was the right thing to do, but do they talk about how they decided to stand in front of that bus? he's not a press secretary. >> caller: i was determined that we should spend some time talking about the intelligence community because not only did he famously associate with the failure surrounding iraq as a
senior policymaker, he is one of the longest running consumers of american intelligence. his first classified intelligence briefing began when he was deputy chief of staff to general ford in the 1970s. i asked him specifically, was their point along the way where that became politicized? we hear about the politicization of intelligence. he had the opportunity to do review and it changed when the world change. after the fall of the soviet union they found it was very good but not at tracking people at using disposable cell phones.
the claims by richard clark and others that warnings were overlooked, one of the things he said is that there was no action on what type of intelligence was going to occur. he asked at the time, how was the intelligence community? how many people did they have working on al qaeda? >> host: switching gears, what brings dick cheney joy? >> caller: his grandchildren. there were times where we were in between taping and he would get an update from somebody whether it was his wife or his assistant saying that the gift
had been delivered to the granddaughter and he would say yes, did she like it, he wanted to know. i would say he was very involved with his grandchildren. one of them is involved in the rodeo. he is the driver. >> caller: yes yes to hitch the vehicle that carries the horse. >> host: yes, the trailer. >> caller: can you tell that's a bit new yorker. as we talked about earlier, he loves to read and there's probably an aspect of him that still likes being in the arena from time to time but i think he's made his peace with his
legacy. >> where there are some favorite behind-the-scenes personal stories that he told you that you like? >> just things that happen in the course of the tapings. here's a man who has had this profound impact on the way we live and to character him is to do this service. there were several hours during the ten hours we spent together where we had this gorgeous lab. at one point this menacing figure, he rises from the chair and said we need to go because i
need to get my dog to doggie daycare. i thought that was hilarious that he would take his dog to doggie daycare and nobody in america would believe it. just to use the term doggie, alone alone. he's a real flesh and blood person. he will have a drink with you. he's willing to talk if you can get them talking. i said let's be clear, i'm going to be ordering a steak. he said he way you want. he had a salad.
>> he launched into a conversation on the air force carriers. i was struck by how engaging he can be and he does have a sense of humor but again it's quick. sometimes his eyes will tell you as much as his mouth does. >> i just felt he was looking out for me. people may not understand it. maybe it is a western thing, but my families from the other side of the state near the black hills. my grandfather who is very important to me and my life was a republican county commissioner. growing up in wyoming, everybody's republican for the most part so when you leave and go east of the mississippi, your eyes are a week and to the
different line of thinking and thought. when i get to the white house and i'm fairly intimidated, i'll never forget that dick cheney, in a meeting turned me and said i'd love to hear more about your ranch. it's in newcastle wyoming, right? what about about highway 16 where you get a great burger in wyoming. from there, i just felt like i had a really good personal relationship with him and i don't think he knows that. >> caller: well we will circulate that. >> host: i think maybe only now it's starting to surface that people are willing to say i'm a fan of dick cheney. i'm not afraid to announce it. >> caller: that's true of the political classes as well. he is regularly doing fundraisers. the frequency with what barack
obama unsolicited invokes dick cheney, there is a time in june where the president went on the daily show to pay their respects of the out going host jon stewart. the next day i asked the white house press secretary, i sent why did he bring up dick cheney unsolicited? does he see himself as the anti- dick cheney. he said he doesn't think that's how the president would characterize himself but i think obama sees himself as their two undo the work of dick cheney. it will be dick cheney who has been his chief critic in the obama area.
in 2009 the two men gave dueling speeches on national security topics. that served as a parity. >> host: why should millennial's care about dick cheney and learning about him? outside of the character. >> caller: we will assume and it may not be a safe assumption that students are receiving the kind of fair and balanced portrait of people like george bush and dick cheney. the simple answer, the broad answer is history always matters. you can't know where you're going unless you know where you've been. specifically, george w bush and dick cheney are still feeling
the effects of their presidents presidency. they feel barack obama has undone some of the work that they did. they need the president to hold the line on some of the things such as the search that they worked hard for. if you care about the threat to the middle east, then you want to read cheney 101 and learn how the mind of the man works. >> host: what about his reputation overseas? >> caller: he is still in contact with leaders overseas and he still travels overseas quite a bit.
he still travels to egypt, cutter, he still very well-regarded and seen as the kind of leader that those allies wish were still in power. >> host: this interview originally ran in playboy magazine, which i know most people pick up for the articles. it packed a big punch. were you surprised at the reaction? >> caller: . a bit, and and pleased by it. when i left his house, he gave me very high praise. i said i hope you enjoyed this and he said it was time well spent. at that moment, i had on my hands 80,000 words of transcript which is what this book is. it's a it's a transcript of ten hours covering his entire life with an overview by me. i took a small fraction, about seven or 8000 words from