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tv   European Parliament Debate on U.K. Membership in the EU  CSPAN  February 27, 2016 6:54am-8:01am EST

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to is that we must first of 08 having plans a, b and c. it does not make any sense as it creates a division within europe. instead, we must look for a synthesis of different approaches. there's no good alternative to a comprehensive european plan.
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secondly, the european response is not only about the decisions taken in brussels, it is also an even more so about the decisions taken in the capital. we must accept that. at the same time, we should seek to improve the coordination of those decisions. the european union is here for all of us and lastly we must expect to lose the laws we have adopted together. this concerns the decisions on relocation as well as the need to gradually go back to a situation where all members of this area fully apply the code. we need to restore sanctions. it will cost money, take time and require a huge political leverage. there will be countries that may not be able to cope with this
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challenge. but europe will be there to assist them. we need to invest in sanctions, not in its collapse. [applause] >> its feature will be one of the key issues we discussed on march 7th. and keep humanitarian aid flowing to csi and syrian refugees in the region. there was a conference in london where two thirds came from europe. leaders agreed to move quickly to 3.3 billion euros pledge in 2016 as well as 3 billion euros agreed to help the refugees in turkey.
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it is not only a european responsibility. i will continue to build a global response to this crisis at the g-7 and g 20 meetings later this year. finally i want to end with a plea about our efforts. we cannot simply wait and see. the most dangerous time in european history. we must act with resolve. i count on your support, thank you. >> thank you very much. president of the commission. we had a debate with our british friends and we took time.
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the negotiations be difficult but at the end of the day we proved that 20 other states in the united kingdom that europe is capable of taking decisions even if the situation is coping with its particularly difficult -- i would like to pay tribute in particular to present cusk who calm weekend effectively assisted the commission in concluding the debate with elegance and i would address the same complement to prison schulz and europeans are elements without whom without whose inspiration the outcome would not have been what it was. we haven't achieved an agreement with the united kingdom. the u.k. prime minister got the most he could obtain and other members states offered him as much as they could offer which leads me to say that the deal
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with the u.k. is fair, balanced and complies with the great principles of the european union and takes into account the concerns and suggestions of the united kingdom. i therefore think the british people, which through the course of history have proven their wisdom and courage time and again, we say yes to the arrangements we have arrived at with the united kingdom. the commission, from the day the british people approved will pass legislative texts to parliament and council. in particular with regard to the social aspects of the agreement arrived at with the united kingdom. that juncture, the legislative proposals from the commission will come to you as soon as they
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have been tabled in german. we look at the refugees and migration issues. won't have escaped you that the european council confirmed with the european council decided in principle in the past. now is a question of ensuring decisions appropriately implemented and that is why on march 7th, the european council will take place not just with turkish colleagues but also with 28 member states to contemplate ways in which we as quickly as possible can fully apply. the european council has made loud and clear warmly european approach to the refugee problem will achieve the objective. and proceeding nationally will prevent us from doing that.
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the commission is in a legal dispute with austria. i can say to austria a country close to my heart should not see this as reduction against austria on full wonder at the efforts austria has made on refugees in recent years where now attempting to gather with our austrian colleagues to deal with this matter and i hope we will be successful. thank you very much. [applause] >> translator: thank you. on behalf of the bp group. >> what situation to you find yourself in at the moment? in ukraine, syria and libya, in
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vladimir putin a neighbor who is imperialists and aggressive and the situation in europe with many people looking for employment and prosperity. if you look at the situation across europe you can see it is very difficult. at the last european council it was difficult to see how their welfare benefit over the city of london's concerns could be put in private places the most important priority on european council's agenda. my question is, should these be considered -- the issues at the table, the british wanted to discuss these special requests and it is good the managed to come to an agreement. that agreement is now on the table and as david cameron put forward his points got a solid
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outcome for citizens of the united kingdom that we need these groups to support the agreement and what is clear is if the people of the united kingdom shoes to remain within the european union they will find illegal or ppp, fair partner in implementation of those goals. one thing we have to make clear is that the agreement will be respected. if people are told in the united kingdom if they say no, they will get a better deal, we have to say very clearly that the agreement which is on the table is the agreement and this is the agreement the cpb will support and there will be no fallout negotiations. and to the british people, it is
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important to clarify the truth of the matter. the uk outside the european union, why is europe growing to the tune of 6% despite the fact that it is in europe and india and usa asking the u.k. to remain within the european union and thousands of foreign fighters infiltrating the u.k. because of its agreement because of membership of the e.u. and military leaders in the united kingdom have spoken against the european union and wants to handle and truths to the people of britain and he is looking forward to a time when britain leaves the united kingdom and guess who else, vladimir putin, they want to split the european
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union, to fragment the european union to infiltrate better and we have to stop them doing this. that is why we say to the british people that we live at a time of major uncertainty and insecurity is. we have to be sensible. europe is weaker, it is definitely weaker in terms of trying to tackle these difficulties. hopefully the british citizens will choose to address their problems together with us in the future. turning to migration, presidents of the commission said that decisions taken at council have been confirmed. however unfortunately there is still a lot of national egotism and pilot projects at work. i have to say that expressly. if you look at things from a
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positive angle you concede there is a clear commitment we have to secure the borders of europe's and support our commitment on that front. the people fleeing the russian bombs, those people should not be abandoned on the turkish border, so we asked her to prepare the border. and they humanitarian approach, the continent has to act properly which is why we need to work together to secure borders properly and showing willingness to cooperate. we have done enough talking and now we have to start acting. as my conclusion, the foundation of few days ago issued a representative study published across europe, asking people,
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not politicians, two questions and the results were 79% of people across europe want to keep 60% of british people, and 69% the vast majority of people want us to help refugees to solve this refugee problem and sometimes people know more than politicians. [applause] >> translator: a question to mr. carter. >> you called me. thank you. can i ask you to repeat what you said? the renegotiation at has been agreed is the final
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renegotiation. some people are giving the impression that there will be a referendum that will come back and renegotiated. for clarity please confirm to the people of the united kingdom that the renegotiation, there will be no further renegotiation of the referendum taking place. >> translator: if you need clarification of what i just said. i am only too happy to do that. the offer on the table from all sides is a compromise. that is the idea of a compromise. that is what we have to take into account, we have to come to a compromise. that is the offer europe is making to the british people. we hope cameron and everyone else can convince the british
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people to get on board if it is no, there will be no follow-up negotiations. >> thank you very much. on behalf -- thank you, mr. president. let me say on behalf of my group, the united kingdom must remain in the european union. not just for reasons of communion but all of us -- would be a leap. but the consequences particularly for the brits themselves, not just a marriage of convenience. the united kingdom must remain in the union because it is part and parcel of europe. we handled through the united kingdom a chance of history and culture. how the united kingdom, europe
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would no longer be the same thing. thanks to the agreement on fighting and thanks to others who contributed, my good friend in the european council, let me also ask that we cannot accept being taken hostage by a the internal balance, at a time when europe is a mix, to be expanded, discussing different conditions, beside the agreement, it in legal terms, the principal is not going to be intact or touched and i take note of that. i am not convinced of one
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aspect, the social dimension. europeans, same job, same work that is in danger for the fact that they are not british, have less rights than the other and that is discrimination even though i very much hope that we will see this be denied to begin the fed in proposals from the commission after the referendum in principles. there are things which must be handled with great care. otherwise you must be careful because they can be live wires and don't want to see any distinction in terms of different citizens in the european union. we will fight to make sure it stays with us and with that
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respect, it is up to them. to take their shoelace and say it with great respect that you have been leaders in the world protagonists, the u.k. doing so much for democracy and those values are in the bloodstream of the united kingdom. best place to demonstrate to live out those principles is the european union. and we can live to the challenges before us in the world at the time of exile and fear after the effects of globalization, the feeling of being left behind, unity is tremendous source of strength, thank you. [applause]
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>> translator: thank you very much. to ask you a question. >> thank you very much, mr. president. now i need some clarity because i was listening to what you said and if i got the gist correctly you seemed to be saying there could be no discrimination in social rights. paltry as the agreement may have been, it does say that for a period, we can pay people child benefits in their own country, not in our country so that would be discrimination in the real sense of award. i believe you said something like we have to see what happens when the legislation comes through the parliament. are you saying this could be different from the agreement and
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the agreement may be changed? or previous speakers said it will not be changed? are you saying parliament could change if it wanted to and will it? >> translator: thank you very much. the rules of the house as well as anyone. i am not inventing anything come at a time that the british those to maintain the united kingdom and the european union. the house before parliament for a lawmaker implementing positions and we will examine them and debate them. no parliament in the world, parliaments are free to come to their conclusions, we cannot preempt our second guests, once
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the proposal emanates, we shall examine them in a constructive setting. we want all of that for the united kingdom to remain in the european union. on behalf of other folks. >> thank you, president. the deal struck last week was hard fought by all sides. many countries have concerns and objections and those hurdles were overcome. aided by will power, fuelled by packets and sealed following a visit to the chip shot. we found an agreement that enshrines the united kingdom at special status as a country never joining the euro and never joining -- as a country that does not wish to be part of the
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european political project delivers a live and let live agreement, where the united kingdom continues to play an active role in the european union without facing discrimination in areas where it wishes to keep national control. the group welcomes this deal. it is for the british people to pass judgment on these new terms. ladies and gentlemen, and i will be supporting the campaign to remain in the european union. [applause] >> my reasoning is simple. it was so fragile and i will not put it at risk by tearing us
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away from the single market but i also believe my constituents will be safer and my country more secure if we continue our cooperation with european partners, they are good people who would disagree with me and i respect their decision and if the british people decide to leave then we must respect that choice and make it work. there are also those in this chamber who are not respectful of other people's shoelaces, we can hear them jeering today behind me, those who compare the e.u. with the soviet union. i think that is felicia and offensive to those who actually lived under the yoke of communism. [applause] >> because unlike the u.s.s. r, any country is free to leave the
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european union. that is the will of the sovereign people. being in the e.u. is a choice and the conservative party will respect that choice. mr. president, the voters in britain will exercise their sovereignty. they will decide whether to remain or leave. and in the u.k. we can look 4-wheel to this when the next four months. ha hong kong trade on the migration crisis. the dutch prime minister and six to eight weeks, he said that five weeks ago. in this chamber we seem unwilling to accept that the migrant crisis was exacerbated when angela merkel said germany would take people, unilaterally define a number of wells and
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guess what, people coming without limits and some countries like hungary apply the rules and defend the border, they are criticized and where other countries break the rules they are applauded. we cannot begin to solve this crisis until we enforce the rules in place to protect the external borders, the focus on the basics of processing this tension and return this and prevent asylum seekers and economic migrants moving around e.u. at well. we need international action to end the conflict in syria. we need to give priority to those refugees already in the camps in lebanon, jordan and turkey both with humanitarian aid and refuge. is it not perverse that the e.u.
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gives priority to those who cross the aegean rather than those classified as refugees by the united nations. i recommend for the next e.u. summit, you order copious amounts of chips and tell the e.u. leaders to get cracking. [applause] >> mr. fox, there is unquestioned for you. >> the lady here mr. fox come out in favor of campaigning to remain in the european union. we all know that his party is split from head to toe on this question. may i ask among the 20 british conservatives, how many will be
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campaigning with your party leader, your prime minister to remain in the european union and how many will be campaigning with you to get britain to walk out, slamming the door on all our neighboring countries? [applause] >> if mr. corbin is still interested in the opinions of my colleagues, he should ask them. >> translator: 8 you very much. >> it was an interesting question by mr. corbett and i think i can add something. >> translator: a question --
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>> translator: yes, madam president, this is the european parliament. my blue card had been there a while. should be looking at the question of british members and other members. i would like to put a question forward if possible. >> translator: thank you. depending on nationality, so far a different question. signaled before. >> translator: that is the case, how can you claim any different?
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>> translator: my colleagues behind me will have seen it. they can see as well as you can. your group is a constant. >> going further on the question of mr. corbett, i am simply eat wondering why you are now speaking, are you still in doubt, he does know for the moment when he is going to do and that is a better answer to the question than asking but i have another issue involved in negotiations from the beginning, and i have to ask myself why the british deal was so necessary and vital. i can tell you for one thing i am sure, this deal is not about europe, it is a deal to unite
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another party, let's be honest about it. i may not know the results of the referendum if burn will remain in the union but i am sure of one result, it will not reunite the tory party. because what i am seeing is a fight. johnson challenging david cameron, i can tell you, i myself, a politician, johnson takes it to another level. because the mayor of london acting against the interests of the citizens of london and for personal ambition, certainly not for a better europe or a better business it is totally bonkers and it is pathetic, i should
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say, that is happening. even dramatic for britain especially, mr. fox, what we see is rapidly falling, the unity of the united kingdom, and saying stop it, we will not make the trade deal with you outside the union, a special relationship between the u.s. and the u.k. is apparently not so special anymore today. so let me give advice to those who are doing this now, this debate in britain. don't think that after know you can come back to the negotiation table. some people icing kings at. once you said no in a referendum your invited back to the negotiation table like the constitution with france or the netherlands but it is not about
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the same thing but the constitution, the treaty, it is about in or out, it is one or the other. anyone see how the currency of britain is endangered, britain is eliminated from the u.s. and how britain is step by step transformed, going to be wise to stay in the european union. >> it is a dramatic debate and important debate for europe because what we are discussing now is crazy what we have to unite. do not be divided. the only ones to gain from a divided europe are people like vladimir putin, people like bashar al-assad.
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instead of discussing how to develop a strategy, we are sowing division, we are weak and yesterday it became very clear the russian american plan to cease fire in syria happens everywhere again not about the table, such a crucial decision. we can continue now and some are doing it, to complain about a deal and point at to the downside of the deal. i appeal to everybody in this house, to do the opposite. use the deal to put europe back on track and make your work again. let's finally stopped the standstill because of this issue. i have nothing against giving special stages to britain if
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next time you agree also in the next time we can go ahead integration in all these reforms, we are needed to accept this for a more united europe. because we need it. the crisis we are facing today, certainly the refugee crisis. my last point, we should do more on this refugee crisis, to solve the refugee crisis as we have done to get a solution. thank you. >> thank you. several people putting their questions to you. i know your colleague has left the chamber.
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the first colleague from finland. putting a question to the european parliament. >> thank you for the floor. i would like to put a question to the speaker, a passionate european. i would like to put the same question to you, i you aware of the fact that people from your group, in the campaign, thank you. >> i cannot see the interest of campaigning. british people were deciding and british politicians that taking positions and i can't tell you
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one thing. if there's one party in the u.k. fighting that britain remains in the union is the liberal democratic movement and them alone. >> >> translator: ladies and gentlemen. the result of internal party squabble took the e.u. so far that the essential pillar which supported the e.u. the social pillar has been reduced. what will happen with the aaa? surely you can pack up and say that was it, all promises are
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lost. i would make the point, on route to the e.u. coming closer to the radical market anglo-saxon level you could direct a monument saying on the eighteenth of february, 2016, the spirit of margaret thatcher was resurrected. a monument in brussels to that effect. hundreds of thousands of people in the last few months have coming to greece and the e.u. is refusing to enter into its commitment to redistribute those people, to resettle them. you have the fact the unanimous decision of the last summit has disappeared and you haven't criticized that the day after the summit no one was talking about it, orders were sealed off. it was agreed that by the summit in march, we should still have
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open borders and a common decision and now we have a conference underway in vienna excluding greece, the main player. how do we intend to come to a european solution? no hint of criticism to what is going on in vienna from council or commission. what we decided needs to be delivered. that would be the first condition for being allocated and greece being helped. we remediator legal route to be created. greece needs tangible help. we can't go on as if individual member states were left alone. member states are duty bound to should their responsibilities. this is a human duty, we will be giving up our values if we refuse to do that. let me say it loud and clear.
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should we take an example from a new portuguese government? the offer from cyprus that thousands of migrants are taken by then or spanish province of valencia which offered help to greek province in taking a thousand immigrants. other members states, that is the way forward. that debate on which we should discuss it, should be powered today between john isn't and cameron which has no impact on me or refugees whatsoever. that is what we should be talking about, 24 hours a drama in brussels, staged drama where the real drama is happening elsewhere and we are doing nothing, we are not reacting, we are acting as if a lot resolved on its own, ladies and
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gentlemen, we need to act and forward the majority and spell out what is needed. >> a question to you. >> translator: thank you very much. i was listening carefully, asking for the refugees in greece to be redistributed within europe. that would be a drama. my question is very simple. why do you want refugees to be distributed in europe only? why can't that resettlement in all the countries across the planet particularly countries
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around the outside? >> translator: dear colleague, we are members of the european parliament. we are here because we were elected to this post by voters and we have to resolve the problems that relate to europe. people coming to europe whether others want it or not, they are coming. it doesn't help to close off borders. it doesn't happen to try to recreate internal borders in the european union and we can't look elsewhere and say you do it is this. we have the key to solving this problem and we have to work together to open the european tour to ensure this is resolved, and complying with international
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law. >> translator: mr. president, colleagues, politics is always stage to a certain extent but at this last european council meeting, not just a cheap staged drama. i got the impression it was described correctly that behind the scenes, there was a serious negotiation going on and under no circumstances should be considered a negotiation, to be something that was planned, a very difficult figure to keep europe together. my impression watching from the sidelines, my impression was this summit sought many members
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of council looking around at what was at stake and making it very clear, what actually would happen if one of the older members of the european union were to leave the union. and i hope i have to say this against the doomsayers that are speaking out very loudly in this parliament, i hope that the conflict in the uk on this question actually helps the u. k what they want to get out of the european union, what they want the european union to be and that will help all of us in europe. as a result of that description to acknowledge exactly what we have in the european union because this has been an ongoing construction decades. people died in the making of this european union particularly in the eastern countries and in the last few weeks we have seen the beginnings of what could lay
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asunder as you weigh in on this matter on several occasions i can only imagine what he has to say on this debate, but this process in the united kingdom could end up being a process which does us all good in acknowledging what we have here. it has been described as the european union has been sidelined in world conflicts, the u.s. and has mentioned this on several occasions, don't necessarily want to help us out of any difficulty regardless anymore and the ukraine conflict, we saw clearly what will happen to us if we find common solutions together into a free look at the new strategy
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being adopted by the kremlin and the conflicts are rising in various places around the world is very clear is the we have to work together with europe and the united kingdom, the european union will be better with the u.k. on board but it works the other way as well. the united kingdom can overcome these crazies if they are in the european union. unfortunately ease the issue of the refugee crisis was only dealt with very briefly. it was an extremely difficult issue to come to agreement. this is not just the case for the refugee crisis. we are seeing a domino effect as a result of our inability to come to grips on this refugee crisis, borders are being brought back in all over europe and even talking about defending
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borders militarily. regarding the summit with turkey, i would say those who want to ensure a fair refugee policy in the european union, and those in most need in syria and around syria, and i hope those people had great success in the negotiations because topics are the same as they always wear. resettlement in the european union. it should be feasible because if you look at the figures involved is still feasible fat border management will cost the loss of money but it is important and has to be done, nato can intervene but they can't patrol the external borders of the european union. the major support in refugees by jordan, turkey and that area, thank you for your patience and
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attention. >> thank you very much. want to ask a question. >> none of the fear tactics, you have given the e.u. lot of credit for things it hasn't done. he mentioned the deal, and in my view the deal we got, we got rid of an emergency plate, not clear how is it is going to be applied. my question to you, can you think of any other conflict of anything achieved in this deal? >> you mentioned the most urgent idea, this emergency brake, a i
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can tell e.u. is always open to compromise. europe is always about compromise. everything we move we move by compromise. i will never agree that workers coming from eastern european states i seen as second-class workers and i hope that you agree with me on this. [applause] >> translator: thank you very much. >> rather exciting, isn't it? it is referendum's season and the referendum is coming on the sixth of april in the netherlands where they are going to have a referendum on the ukrainian deal and opinion polls show they are going to reject it. just today it was announced there is going to be a referendum in hungary where they
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are going to have a referendum whether they are forced to exit mandatory closures for migrants after grievous errors of the european union asylum policy and angela merkel. overnight we get a check that there is demand building in the czech republic to have a referendum on membership. i nearly forgot there will be a british referendum of june 23rd, with their we remain or leave the european union. a 40 hour summits where mr. cameron doing his modern-day impression of oliver twist, please can i have some more concessions? he didn't get very much. migrant benefits for a short period of time, we are told in future we won't be committed to ever closer union is. on the basis of all that we will
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have a referendum the prime minister says on a deal that is legally binding and joined with us today by saying the british deal was legally binding. to top that off, mr. cameron told us he will lodge a the documents at the united nations but frankly you might as well lodge an old pair of socks because it is completely meaningless that you launch a document there to give a safety deposit box but if this deal is legally binding, in 2008 the obligations imposed by international agreement cannot have the effect of prejudiceing constitutional principles of the e.u. trees, of which means the rule in favor of the existing treaties until we get a new treaty but what is to say there is going to be a new treaty?
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any treaty would trigger more referendums and not be favored by the big groups in this parliament. but we have an emergency brake, that is judged to be a great success, but crucially that happens through secondary images suasion that can be voted on by this parliament. we have a referendum to remain and then we come back to this parliament. is this parliament going to support british exceptionalism? don't think we heard voices today that make it perfectly clear that that will not happen. so the deal if you are listening is not legally binding in any way at all. the british public will decide which is our safest option. is it safe to say with an organization whose own police box tells us there are 3 to
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5,000 terrorists through the migrant crisis, is it safe is to take control of our own borders and our own democracy? after much consideration i have decided to vote for us to leave. [applause] >> thank you. do you want to -- will you accept that? >> we all know he is working for britain to leave. he has tried local elections in the united kingdom without success. sent the general election in the united kingdom, hardly a success
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for david cameron and the conservative party. you always wanted the majority of the british people to say yes, to stay in the european union. when you retire from politics or would you want another chance to stay here in the company of us europeans? [applause] >> i don't know who has been briefing you and intellectual history. i am not sure but in 2014, with 28% of the vote, the u.k. won the european elections, and the poll across the european union for the first time, as part of labour of the conservatives had won a national election. that brings you up to speed. as for the referendum i believe it is a once in a lifetime opportunity. i am certain if we vote to
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remain there will be another opportunity. there is every chance now that the momentum is on our side of the argument and so yes, we will vote to leave and within a short time, all the british mvps will be gone. how about that? [applause] >> good to hear. >> careful with the results. the analyses of respective countries, the socialists went down to 22% in the last election. hon. members, the u.k. will vote in a bit and vote in or out. as for the people to decide,
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fundamental issue is the vitality of democracy. not a lot media are unanimously european and it will be a real democratic debate. many ides will be involved in the common thrust. let freedom of opinion and respect for all opinions go to the heart of democracy and the fact that it is for the u.k. and opportunity to look back and measures the benefits of joining up, back in 76. if they decide they want to opt for freedom or sovereignty, if they do that you will find a way to solve the problems of the modern world. if you think back to article
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xxviii of human rights, our generation cannot subjugate through its laws future generations the generation to join the european union. that generation cannot import european institutions without -- cannot impose a institutions, that is a lesson of democracy that has proven it. successive generations taken by people usually -- democratic debate in the media. that is the opposite of those -- this is -- arriving and making use of it. the agreement will not change that any more than blackmail on the mountains of the system.
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nor the polls that are used, polls to better end that. you cannot refuse to be judged by people and if necessary sanctions and punished by them because that is the very essence of democracy and the punishment for you will be because recommends for the british people. [applause] >> translator: mrs. dr. oodds, please. >> reno despite the best efforts
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of our prime minister to deliver change, the e.u. is neither willing nor able to do so. the new settlements promised to us in 2018 by david cameron has been ditched. our sovereignty will continue to be eroded and our security will continue to be at risk. we will continue to send billions more to the e.u. then we get back and the fundamental flaws of membership will remain. but mr. president, even if we look at the mediocre weeks by those advocating remains, they bring no guarantees. there will be no guarantee of free the change. this parliament can unravel the deal. we have a share raid, an attempt to deceive the british people. might message to my constituency's, don't buy it. believe in the united kingdom
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because in the words of that wonderful author, there are far far better things ahead and any we leave behind. [applause] >> you have two blue cards. will you accept them? the first from mrs. mcginnis. >> thank you, mr. president. will you acknowledge the role of the european union in the peace process in northern ireland? it did create a space for those in disagreement, to put it mildly, to negotiate and therefore does she not see the value of the european union in piecework generally but in particular in northern ireland? we cannot interfere in the u.k. referendum. i, as a neighbor of yours, we do
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have to have a say and our voices need to be heard and i hope you will accept that. thank you. [applause] >> can i say thank you to you for your question. it is indeed a very relevant one and i have always acknowledged the role this plays, the parliament these institutions have built and have made in making sure there were pieces available to northern ireland. however, in europe, it estimated that in terms of structural funds for every kind, northern ireland gets back, it costs 1 lbs 50. in times of good relationships with our neighbors in the irish republic of course i welcome that today we have much better relationships and we have ever had before and i hope and know that this will continue and can i make a plea to mrs. mcginnis
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for any future prime minister, that what we need in northern ireland is a genuine and honest debate and not the scaremongering tactics we have so far seen of those who threaten us with all kinds of things in northern ireland if we don't toe the european line. ..


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