tv 2016 Los Angeles Times Festival of Books CSPAN April 10, 2016 4:00am-6:01am EDT
>> thank. >> thank you. >> that concludes the time that we have for the session. apologize we could not get all of your questions. [applause] i wish to thank the la times festival of books for organizing this panel. thank you, the audience for your patients. thank you to our speakers. enjoy the rest of the festival. [inaudible conversations]
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> and this is book tv live coverage of the 21st annual los angeles times festival of books. this is the campus of the university of southern california. we are live. coming up in just a few minutes another author panel.panel. the next one is on education. he will your authors talk about the panel, but in the meantime we want to introduce you to professor nancy, author of this book called breakthrough. is this a book about hillary clinton? >> this is not a book about hillary clinton. of course hillary clinton is
a central figure given that she was the 1st woman to make a serious run for the presidency in 2008, but it is really a book about how it became possible for a woman to make a serious run for the presidency. after all, women command go to america for 130 years. you are not going to have a female president if women cannot vote. it is almost 100 years since, and they still still have not had a female president. couple of years ago i licked and said why is this. plenty of other countries have done this. fifty other nations have elected a woman president or prime minister. we are very far behind.
>> what did you find? >> there are number of reasons. i go through that in the book, the founding fathers did not, when they said all men are created equal, they did not mean women. i was women. i was not an oversight. even women at the time who said consider the rights of women, remember ladies, abigail adams who was running the farm and educating her son one of them became a president later while john adams was away being a diplomat. an absolute exclusion of women from politics for a very long time and then we have a lot of informal barriers to women entering the political process, running for election. and so a lot of the book is
about how we got from that moment about 30 years ago when therethere were serious barriers to women even though we had political rights to an hour we have 20 female senators and serious female candidates. >> madeleine albright said in february of this year there is a special place in hell for women who don't help each other. >> yes. that caused quite a storm, and i can understand why at the time. personally, i think any republican or democrat can admit that madeleine albright is a national treasure. she was the 1st female secretary of state. she did tremendous work for this country. so there is a line. she has been using this line for many years, and it is
kind of like a motto in the women in politics communities. it recognizes that man really did have this old boys club that women out. when it raise money for women, they could not win elections. so the reason that you have all these capable, qualified and viable women candidates at every level is because of the women behind the women. albright's comment was really just kind of waving a flag. look, we have done this. she was on the campaign trail. it was kind of an abbreviated clip that came out wrong, and she apologized. so i do think people don't
know the background. >> we are talking with professor and author nancy cohen. breakthrough is the name of the book. we want your participation. 202 is the area code. 748-8201. you can also send a text. this is not for phone calls. 202-717-9684 iscalls. (202)717-9684 is that number. we also have a couple of social media sites where you can make a comment or ask a question. we will flash those on the screen as we go. why have women seem to have been more successful in the u.s. senate then perhaps as governors or mayors of cities. >> well, there is an idea
that people say survived from the research about the voters not trusting that they have executive leadership skills and be willing to make them one of a hundred, even if it is a powerful one. my research really surprised me. what i found is i won't go and all the details, but it really does look like today in politics will we think of as this double line that a woman can be strong and tough and likable, it is a myth. and they really do trust that women have executive leadership skills. so a lot of why we don't have more governors or have not has a -- have not had a president has to do with institutional factors. senator kay bailey hutchinson told me that she would consider running for president, you know, the
timing wasn't right. so i think we need to -- when you think about timing and other things. doubting that women are competent. >> texas has elected a female governor. what were the factors that allowed? was there something different? >> campaigns are also about candidates. some are good and some are not. and richards was the governor of texas, last democrat elected statewide. and both of us know she had a great wit and great grace. she was not afraid of the retail politics. and she just was willing to
kind of to go up against the party establishment. my god, the 1st time around. i thought she was talking about the election against a republican. she said no, it was awful. it is a testimony to her strength. there is some research interestingly that voters are more likely to see women as capable politicians. it is a kind of virtual circle that you elect women and they stand as a role model and other women have a better chance next time around.
>> your contemporaneous take on election 2016 and how does it compare to the 2008 democratic primary? >> i will take this question is a question about what we do to be more ready. so what i do see is although there have been plenty of outrageous and absurd attacks on hillary after she 16 states on super tuesday called her male pundits tweeting that she should just smile. i do think that there is less patience for some of the attacks on women as women. i think that there is aa legitimate debate going on
about who represents the best values of the democratic party. i think it is relatively tame fight compared to what is going on the democratic party. in many ways the 2,008 run made it easier for another women to run now, and the next time ii think we're going to see multiple women candidates regardless of who wins this year. >> let's take some calls. nancy cohen's our guest, former history, former history and political science professor at several universities. she sits on the la county commission for women where she chairs the policy and legislation committee. she has written a couple of books including delirium. another book was the reconstruction of american liberalism. her most recent book just
came out this year,, breakthrough the making of america's 1st woman president. david, you are on the air. go ahead. >> hi. i am registered democrat. i am going to plan for the democratic candidate, but what bothered me is that hillary clinton had all these superdelegates lined up. it almost doesn't matter who wins a lot of these primaries because hillary has got so many superdelegates. well, i voted for bernie sanders in the primary as a protest against -- i just don't understand why she has to have all these superdelegates lined up. >> thank you for your question.
the superdelegates are provisionally pledged to different candidates right now. if they are not reversal is taken place. the superdelegate can change up until a convention. i mean, it did significantly during the 2008 race between obama and clinton. a number of superdelegates went over to obama after they committed to supporting hillary. so i do think that the democratic party is going -- the democratic party will nominate whoever has won the most popular votes and the most delegates that have been one in the primaries and caucuses. i don't think that we should worry about the superdelegates. it is all going to come out in the small the democratic way.
>> according to the world economic forum more than 80 percent of america's governors and members of congress are men. from west grove pennsylvania. >> hi. are some women biased against voting for a woman for president? >> ii do not think that women are biased against wanting. there have been some studies or one study in particular that has said that elderly women may be a little bit more concerned about voting for a woman, but in general women vote for female candidates. the record shows that men do as well. >> are not. men are not.
>> is there an advantage or disadvantage to being a woman candidate? and what is the difference? >> let me take that. there are some really interesting research on republican women, republican primary voters see republican women candidates as more moderate than men. and so republican women have a harder time emerging as the victor in a primary because the republican primary voter is very conservative. and historically you would say it is in many ways inaccurate perception that republican women were more moderate republican men. and in the general question,
if the women's issues are primed and there is a woman candidate in the race that is advocating for those issues, the record does show that women will come out and stronger force. >> mike cape coral, florida. please go ahead go ahead with your question or comment. >> historical question. wasn't there a female governor back during the time when women were not able to vote? >> i'm sorry. >> was there a female governor of the western state before women were allowed to vote?
is he thinking of jeanette? >> before women have the vote nationally the 1st woman elected to congress from montana, montana was jeanette menken and it was several years before. but a member of the western states did give women the vote pretty long before women got the vote nationally. >> the nest call right here in los angeles. >> hi. i have not called in over a year. i know your pretty biased when it comes to the truth about israel. so what i would like to say -- >> i think you are going to twist that into a topic that we are not talking about today.today. but we talk about that topic with love to hear from you
and get your perspective. so let's move on to zachary in long beach, california. nancy cohen is our guest. women in politics is the topic. >> i have not read your book but i'm looking forward to reading it. the interview that i am watching and knowing that women outnumber men in population, more the norm have women outnumber men. but of course it has not happened. and as a male, as a person of color here in america i am a nothing minority, but i think hopefully it will help enlighten. >> thank you. you know, you bring up a good point, women are the majority of the population, and we are also
the majority of the voting population. women make up about 53% of voters. about 10 million more women than men voted no last presidential election. america ranks 72nd in the world on women's political empowerment. that means 71 nations have a have a higher proportion of women empowerment we do. and so i do think that other nations have adopted a lot of processes that have made a commitment to getting closer to parity in government. this is difficult to do. high levels of incumbent reelection. that is reelection. that is a big part of why it is hard to change the ratio significantly in any particular election. >> is parity important? >> for what? i like to say if you are not
at the table you are on the menu. we know historically that until african-americans, immigrants, women push the people in power to take account of our interest they were ignored. so do we need 5050 and every election? no. but we need to get closer to a point where we are more like 4060, 45 men 55 percent women. and i think we get different public policy when we have all the voices of america at the table. >> text message for you. >> she made it the way many women in an earlier period had to make it.
she called her way up through the party. a brilliant politician, brilliant woman. her politics are not where mine are. she was a great politician. but she talked a lot about how the men in the party resisted is much as they could allowing her to get to the top spot. becoming the norm in a lot of countries. i do think that women once we get to a critical mass can just play the game the way it's meant to. they have achieved parity. taking progress. >> next call comes from
ellen and irvine california just south of where we are right now. >> hi. i look forward to reading your book. i am an older woman in my mid- 70s. i was hoping during the 70s when i was involved with women's movement that we were going to move forward to me it is a disgrace how few women we have in congress and in the senate and now we have not had a woman vice president yet. so i am all for women. and so more women are involved we are going to get in the same quagmire have gotten into with iraq in
these different places. no more equality, more voting rights. without women in positions of power we aren't going to get there. that is my opinion. i look forward to reading your book. >> thank you. women in political office prioritize prioritize the women and concerns to a far greater degree than men. women don't look at this as a back burner.
how rare this kind of misogyny and sexism really is. they really see women as equal and always groups. so i don't even really think we need to talk more than to say think of your past it. >> you said your optimistic. but is there proof? you are political scientists. >> basically i read hundreds of studies and hundreds of public opinion surveys.
the overwhelming evidence, 90 plus percent of americans believe in women's fully quality of participation. the most fascinating part of my research was the surprising conclusion is that really for all intents and purposes elections the double standard is dead. doesn't make enough to tip an election. ideology, policy, the state of the economy. so that kind of attitude
i'm not predicting hillary clinton will be elected but i'm absolutely certain america has really reached this historic point where it is no longer a detriment. >> just to bring us back to where we started. >> how do we get there? i would give most of the credit to a lot of women up-and-coming in these organizations have looked in america and said it is just not right that women aren't that levels equal to men and that we will get better public policy and have a more democratic nation if we spend our lives dedicated to
working women and through the political system. .. >> live coverage continues. a few more other panels are coming up today. the next author panel is on education. that's where we'll go next. then will have another call an opportunity. this will be with the joe, the author the book called the blue. our final period of the day is a panel on more. it is authors about war. that is today's cover at the l.a. times festival. go to our website and find our entire schedule for today and tomorrow at booktv.org.
you can follow us on twitter or facebook to get behind the scenes of photo and schedule updates as well. this is book tv's live coverage of the 21st annual los angeles times a festival of books. >> .. sweet hello everyone to our panel. i we have an interesting panel to talk about the subject today. i think we are also on some sort of television. so smile, you are almost on candid camera. i have some housekeeping announcement to make. silence also phones during the session. also, there is a book book signing following the session. the session for this panel is an
signing area one. this areas noted on the festival map in the center of the event program or one of the helpful volunteers, raise your hand volunteers, they can show you where that is. personal recording of sessions is not allowed. i do not want to discover later that black-market copies of this turn up in china selling for $1000 apiece. we do not want that kind of embarrassment. no recording allowed. with that, let's get started. it is not far-fetched to say that there is an ideological and policy war over the future of education. it is is a battle whose outcome is endowed in terms of what education is going to look like and what the policies will be and strange bedfellows abound. it is hard to find consensus over any of the
fundamental questions. there's is there too much standardized testing and how important our test scores for evaluating students and their teachers, should schools receive more money or is that send dating good money after bad. our independently operated charter schools part of the solution a part of the problem? our teacher unions the guardian of everything that is best and promising a public education or are they obstacles to innovation? is the traditional college education cost-effective or even relevant these days? what is the definition of what we even consider to be a good education? how close are we to get in there? are we getting closer is that goal slipping further away? with us to tackle questions is our panel, i will say a little more about each of them in turn, barry, barry glassner is a sociologist and college professor and author of culture of fear. catherine ellison is a pulitzer prize winning correspondence and
author and co-author of nine books. mcgill doyle is on the far left, author of the schools on trial, his second book and he is of college going h himself. we are going to start with five minutes from each panelist and i don't have any particular reason for starting with one person or another elder than that it is written first on my script. we will start with barry, he is a sociologist, is a sociologist, college professor and the president of the lewis and clark pop college in portland. he formally was the professor and executive vice provost at usc. s book which book which we have for your reading pleasure, it is considered a classic by many and has recently been updated and he is thinking of updating it again, it is called "the culture of fear, why americans are afraid of the wrong thing". >> thank you. i am going to wear two hats, one
is as the altar of the culture fear and other books that tend to defunct a huge exaggerated fears and scarce. the other, the gun i'm the only person on the panel today talking about higher education. so i will also wear my professor in college president had and pull these hats together into one beautiful easter bonnet. what i want to talk about this a couple of current myths that are exaggerated about higher education. the first of these is nicely summarized by this quote that i have found in the business insider, you can find the sign same thing done in many places. the return on investment on higher education has diminished and even turns negative. so what do we make of that? first off, the numbers are
pretty clear and it is nonsense. earning a ba increases a person's lifetime earnings lifetime earnings on average it by 65% compared to a high school diploma. that is not going in the negative direction, on the contrary since 1980 that premium for having a college education has been increasing steadily and continues to increase steadily. income is only one benefit. there are many other ways to achieve a lot of these things. let me get that out there. college is not the only way. overall, for many people if not most it certainly is. if you compare studies of people who have ba degrees with people who have a high school education you will find lots of other benefits. a higher civic participation is one that i have written about
and another interesting one is health outcomes that are health outcomes overall. they take a typically have more satisfying. wish we make of that concern? i think what we should make of it is let's not let it get in the way of what is really a legitimate concern and that is access to higher education for many people. if you want to look at what that looks like it is not a pretty picture, it nears a lot of other things in society at this point in american society and it is all about class race and other indicators and predictors. nearly half of white americans have higher education credential and only one quarter of
african-americans do. only about one fifth of latinos and native americans. that carries through if you look at income as well. income income background, family background, 82% of students in the top third of the income ladder go to college compared to just over half, about 5252 or 53% in the bottom third. so income of the family, family's wealth level and race are very good predictors and that continues to be the case. that suggests that we have an issue that we should be concerned about. it it is not, is it worth going to college. and his college worth the cost. there are many issues about what
is limiting access to college. i was told to keep this to five or six minutes. so i'm only going to talk about one of those. but i'm happy in the discussion to talk about some of the others to the extent i have any other expertise. one of of these is the fear mongering that has gone on about student loans. also about taking loans for college. we have good reason to be concerned about some issues regarding college and student death, no question about it. to the extent that families who need to take the loan so that there student to go to school,
or the students who take them, especially in the case of students who are not at the conventional age of going to college. to the extent to the extent they are not doing that to because of the scares they have heard about loans it is a very unfortunate and very unfair to them in the long run. i am a former journalist, i have mentioned have mentioned that a big fan of journalism. i'm also a professional critic of some journalism. a lot of what the politicians have been doing and to a certain extent what journalists have been doing about the loan issue is taking anecdotes and treating them as trends. finding people who have huge debts and treating them as stand ins for the general population. the reality is that of people who earned a bachelor degrees recently, the data do not have at this point, the people graduated two or three years ago, 40% of those who received a
bachelor degree had no debt at all. that means 60% day, substantial number obviously. their debt obviously ranged 26,500 dollars. that is a lot of money to have to worry about when you get out of college for many people. that is not as what has been pretrade by groups and individuals who are pure mine green about this. fewer than 1% leave undergraduate school with debt of $100,000 or more. that means that the journalists and politicians have to do some real looking to find the scary folks and their stories. then they have to carry them through. when you actually talk to the folks as i have come at the end of the story is not to so sad in many cases. now that is not to say that we do not need to do a lot about the loan problem, we do. there should be much better
repayment options for example but for people to be afraid to go to college because of this is really unfortunate. remember what what we are talking about here is upper income, those in the upper third we talk a lot about the top 1%, but there are a lot of people in the top third. the top 1% is going to have no problem paying for college. the top third, some do have problems paying for college actually. mostly they don't depending on where they are going. but some do. and then the middle third there are a lot of struggle going on. this is a place where loans can matter. is that the key to this no public support and many other things? what i particularly focus on are
the scares and fears that are blown out of proportion around these issues. that is one reason i want to talk about that. i. i will stop at this point. >> very good. i know that miguel is not in college. >> i am in college actually, i'm in vermont and graduating in a couple of months. >> okay and so i am not cutting time off, do you have a challenge for barry on this issue or do you agree with him entirely? to have some skepticism about his points question. >> i i agree pretty much with most of it. i definitely think there is a lot of journalists who do use these anecdotes of kids have a hundred thousand dollars in debt and when the average student debt is much less than 40000. i'm very much interested and how we can solve this issue and i am a big fan of what bernie sanders
is talking about, the free higher education and implementing attacks on wall street speculation to pay for college, public college for all. i think that is something we should look to in the future as you are eluding to a little bit, the government who is giving support and funding higher education has been cut dramatically. that is one of the reasons you see kids having more debt in recent years. >> okay catherine, any thoughts on that one, you can pass but if you have anything you want to jump on. >> no, not on that question. >> okay we'll go to next actually. catherine ellison is a pulitzer prize winning former correspondent, author and co-author of nine books, three which that have to do with education. one of her latest books is love and learning. how progressive education can save america's schools. >> i came to learning about education through a different route. my son was nine years old, about
ten years ago when he was diagnosed with adhd. i was overwhelmed as to what happens to many parents. he became the one in five boys in this who have been diagnosed with adhd. i got very interested in the specific problem that he had connected with school, which is that he was bored out of his mind. adhd can be thought of in one way as an interest deficit, your hard to motivate. you really have to be engaged. i really resonated with that. i also realize that we are all on the spectrum of - about a great problem with high school which i think is think is really the weakest link in our education system is that disengagement and lack of motivation.
so that became a real interest for me to bind to schools that are doing it right. there was a survey some years ago on the gates foundation that found a boredom is the main reason kids a drop out of school. they say that it is not that the work is too hard, it is too easy. they are not challenged. when we talk about that big question about where we are going with education, i just want to throw out a big anti- of boredom possible chair. one hundred years ago there was that the committee of 10, education experts that decide what we're going to teach in high school. it was for subjects, english, math, science, history. we have been doing that for 100 years. it has not changed. except in a few, wonderful exceptions which have come to us through the progressive education model. also 100 years ago years ago the progressive
reformers, john dewey, colonel francis parker were challenging this model. challenging the four subjects where you just study things they never appear life. they talked about experiential learning and about integrating subjects and it is a déjà vu all over again and our school system to some extent because people are talking about project -based learning a lot. but whether they are handling it or not could be the subject that we will discuss. anyway, i would love to see that model of the four subjects thrown out because i think the kids, if you really want to prepare kids, motivate temper pair them for the kinds of jobs of the future, they have to be studying things in a more relevant way and a more integrated way just as they are in real life. i will pass it onto you at this point. >> okay, i want to follow that question what would you, what
with this learning look like? if we are not doing those four subjects, what are of those four subjects again? >> science, math, english, and history. >> so what will we replace that was? >> well how many people in the audience have heard of high-tech high? which is the poster child for project -based learning, right in san diego. at high-tech high, which is really been celebrated for good reason because it has been tremendously successful especially with a very demographic, a lot of low income kids, lots of minorities, kids who may otherwise be at risk. what they do is really interesting projects, for really interesting projects, for instance they will send kids to work with a conservation group that is looking into illegal -- in our markets. the so the kids will look at the
dna and meat, they'll be writing huge papers or writing poems about what they're finding, are finding, they'll be learning science, or they will go out and study the san diego ecosystem. they will use science, math, and writing all at once. or or they will put on presentations. everything is not -- they don't allow standardized test, which is a huge subject we should talk about so they have a lot more time to get kids out in the real world doing real things. >> and by the way should preface this by saying that i am not necessarily committed to this question, i'm throwing it out for the sake of entertainment here. what happens when we make school so exciting for kids and then they go out into the real world and find that jobs are often
really boring but they still have to show up every day in and canted dropout from that? >> that's a fascinating question. should we bore them so much that they drop out of school? >> because that's what they're doing now. >> okay we can come back to that let's go for a few minutes, at the age of 20 you qualify for one of the young people that were technically arguing over how best to serve so that gives you a particular qualification to weigh in here. i think your two books, your latest book is a schools on trial, how freedom and creativity can fix our education malpractice, i think there's some overlap here but you'll take this into a different direction is a fire way. >> thank you so much, it's a pleasure to be here. i wanted to lay the foundation for some of the discussion and then go into
the american school system and where we can look for solutions and ideal models. if you look at the history of compulsory schooling in the united states you have to back to the mid-18 hundreds. you hundreds. you people like horace mann, the father of american public school system. horace mann was a major education official in massachusetts. he went on a trip a trip to a country known as a pressure. pressure was a country going through major transformation through various systems of government and political and economic apparatuses. what was happening a pressure is they wanted to create a mass system to prepare the citizens for the soldiers as well as to be compliant and obedient citizens in that population. so horace and a number of other education officials went to pressure and examine schools there, and the united states there is a number of major crises happening. there is the fact that you had the industrial revolution about to take place, you had a surge
of immigrants coming to the country, millions coming from europe that had to be settled into the united states and figured how to adapt and assimilate into our society. then you have the fact that other issues such as child labor, kids kids working in factories and really toxic conditions. what the american school system in the 1850s massachusetts became the first state to enact compulsory schooling. school students had to attend school for certain number of weeks throughout the year. over time, almost every state in the country adopted compulsory schools today and today you have every state having that law in place. i would argue the purposes of compulsory schooling was simple in the american context. one was to prepare people to be obedient and fit into the social order. it was to make them follow directions and help them become
entering them for the growing industrial economy. so following directions, making sure you're getting to work on time, be an attentive, the qualities that would make them successful in the economy later on, there is another part to it, having children, getting the children out of the factory and into school. so out of the hassle of the employers. there's also the fact that one of the purposes of many historians have talked about is that the purpose was to make children fit into the industrial capitalist economy. what they talk about essentially is something call a correspondence theory, so the quality that are in schools, directly correlate to the traits that are prized in the workplace. so if you jump forward many decades, the american school system has remained the same in terms of the structure.
it would be argued that by 1880 the structures structures that we see in american school such as the aids age segregation, going to the classroom to classroom by the sign of the bell. then homework, the testing, the learning those types of structures and foundations have remained in the system ever since. what is happened in the past decade and a half under the laws that many of you know the no child left behind as well as race to the top, and then raced to the top under president obama is an era of standardization something called corporate school form. neoliberalism is an economic and political philosophy that has basically taken over the united states since the 1970s and 80s. the top 1% has an extraordinary
amount of wealth while the rich have gone richer and the poor have gone poor. you have seen massive levels of income and wealth inequality. and it's basically the idea of turning the public institution into businesses or corporate sizing major institutions. education is one of those institutions that has been attacked by people known as corporate school reformers. these people argue that we should have more testing in school. we should have more charter school, we should privatize for the system, i grew up in the kindest system, i grew up as someone who is very much affected by no child left behind and raced to the top. what is happened is the amount of instructional time for subjects such as social studies, science, art, physical education has decreased dramatically while instructional time for reading and math have increased because that is what is tested on the state test. you have major problems with the conventional school system.
the fact that kids are incredibly bored in school as catherine has talked about a little bit. the gallup has done a number of studies looking at student engagement. it's clear from kindergarten to 12th grade, the levels of student engagement decline every year, curiosity is the stain way, it looks that behaviors and thinking in children out of bounds 90% of kindergarten tested at the highest level of thinking which is essentially genius status. then they test the kids every five years and they found that the number decreased over time. they tested them post secondary education and just 2% of the same children that tested at the highest level were at that same mark. this shows i think that the american school system squashes creativity, it's comments washes the children's level of learning and curiosity. it is designed for self-directed
learning, play and many of the principles that are adopted by progressive education, progressive education is not a new idea, spent around for 100 years, with john hundred years, with john dewey, montessori, the waldorf schools. what i look at especially is how progressive education can be one of those solutions to how we can transform the school system i find there is some consensus among the public that schools are not working i argue that schools are actually working really well and that they're trying to create a certain type of student with is a compliant student. jonathan has" wrote in the 19 seventies, this writer on education he said the purpose of american schooling is not to create a henry david throw comments to produce a man like
richard nixon and a population that would elect a man like richard nixon. i think it's an apt quote because we need to look at the fundamental purposes of public education which are not to create and satisfy the needs of billionaires and wall street and the rich, it's to create a population that is self-directed, lifelong learners and critical thinkers, and i argue the need to distract and dismantle the system of pressures in our society. what we need to do is be subversive, think about how we can transform the system to make it equitable and humane and arguably in the best interest of students and teachers. [applause]. >> at this point i have lots of good questions here but we can go back and forth, all star this
is going to be very free-flowing. i have to say barry you are a top official in an apparently outdated richard system that squashes creativity. how dare you,. [laughter] i noticed you are jotting some notes down, i'm just curious i think actually we agreed pretty much i'm going to have a hard time with the question. you are just before we started that we are test optional. >> what is that mean. >> that means that you can apply to lewis and clark college without taking an sat or act. and have that work to your disadvantage in anyway. a lot of practices that you're talking about are very much embedded where i am. let me answer that in a different way.
i was really interested in the kind of retro approach you take, very positively because you're calling on some important traditions, philosophical traditions but beyond that a lot of what we hear and i was listening a lot of what we hear in your terms may be a new kind of notion as to what the chain should be it is essentially well what it really ends up being is preparing young people for the new version of the factory, for the new version of white-collar work which is not, a lot of people would be happy not to have the buzzer ring and all that stuff and would love to have students play with tinker
toys like they do when they go to those companies. they're supposed to have so many jobs. and they do they do have a lot of jobs. you know what i'm talking about if you walk into. >> there really nice workplaces. >> so is it so bad to fit into the economy is lies you have an updated notion of what that economy is, is that with the purpose of education. you could argue one of your points was that we are trying to fit people into what the economy used to look like. but if we fit them into what the economy does look like, although a lot of what it looks like his on equal with jobs at the bottom so, what is the purpose of an education, is it so our grocery checkers are efficient and uncomplaining, or our grocery checkers have a great love of
opera so they can have something to do when they're not checking groceries i don't know, bounce off that, anybody. >> i want to see where you'll go with it. >> i'm a huge fan of liberal arts education, not just of where i work now, i worked in worked in a very different kind of environment. the way you put it i don't have any problem with that, i don't think that's what usually goes, having an appreciation and to make it through the day right, it's that you have an appreciation of whatever, and i never like the word appreciation >> one of the things were making his there's a lot of argument about the purpose of education and a lot of the people who are making a lot of the decision simply see in education as a prelude to a place in the economy and not as a prelude to
a thinking citizen, in fact some people want to get as far away from the thinking citizen as possible. >> and i think that's it i'm hearing that where we all agree to some extent, what eyes trying to say before is to just produce the latest version does not seem to be an improvement and that is a lot of what is called reform. we have not talked about online education but i see a lot of that as potential in different areas as a solution to these issues, it's just another version, is the current version of what we had back then. >> on that topic i think a lot of when we talk about education it's technocratic and that we don't want to talk about
politics and i think one of the things i see at least with your question about education and i think the way the economy is moving is that will have massive automation and outsourcing. we will have millions of jobs that are road base jobs taken over by robots another kind of machinery. and i think giving people a set of money which they can basically do anything with it. i think you're going - by the government is going to be forced to do that in some form because you have massive unemployment would be blotto work. to prepare people for such a life where they need to be self-directed and problem solvers i think a progressive education would very adequately prepare someone for that type of society. >> i just want to take up the question to a corporate reef form, i hate the amount of
standardized tests that students are taking, i think it it has gotten out of whack. it is quite horrible. there is one think that corporate reformers were doing and talking about that also needs to talk about which is the quality of teachers and the effectiveness of teachers. there is a lot of money put into that from the gates foundation. that's a whole topic. that is something that teachers need support they need feedback a good evaluation systems and in some cases they need to be in different jobs. there are some teachers-my [applause]. >> what about that? you're reacting to what you saw as an overreach by what you're dividing is the corporate style. >> what are are you talking about question.
>> the corporate reform movement with people who are advocating for privatization,. >> when you say privatization dooming charters? >> yes i think some types of charters. i think think some people are pushing for charter schools and there's many that do a lot of good work. i think a lot of the corporatized. >> when you talk about corporate privatization of education you mainly talk about charter schools question or. >> i also think there's some right-wingers that would argue we should sell off the system to businesses and let businesses operate the school system. >> so far that has not happened. also, charter, charter schools are really meant really minority. >> absolutely. some of them, if he ever saw saw
waiting for superman therapy before desperate for choice. people and feeling communities who are desperate for something because their schools are failing. in that way i don't think charters are the solution. i think think they're extremely controversial. most are low-quality. >> yes and they shut out unions like 12% have union contract. i really want to understand about -- because people talk about the privatization of education and is so complicated. >> you almost have to define what you mean by that. which which is the point of your question because his privatization the profit of an education, so it's great question. i think you've clarified some of that to. >> i want to take a question from out here.
before and will get your question, basically if you want to make a questionnaire, you have three sentences in the first sentence is telling who you are, for example you'll say i am a seventh grade english teacher from the somber near los angeles. >> very close. >> and then you have two sentences. it's okay to make a comment because we can bounce off your comment as well as question. i'm okay with comments. but you have just two sentences. >> i am a seventh grade world history teacher in a suburb of los angeles. i have so much to say. with common core and as teacher i am told what i can and cannot teach, what what i'm supposed to
be teaching, i would've loved to have some kind of free reign and creativity that we don't have the resources and quite frankly we don't have the backing of lotta parents. a lot. a lot of parents are just trying to survive. >> okay lets get the panels response. >> and i address the common core think. >> and i guess the common core is a set of standards that were developed with the financial assistance of the federal government although not under the direct control of the federal government. most states have have adopted them. they are learning standards. in most states that have adopted them they are considered an increase in difficulty. there is critics of the common core from different parts of the political spectrum.
california is one of the states that have adopted the learning standards. >> i am actually a fan of the common core in principle because to have a high school diploma be as valued as california as in texas to me learning the same thing is important. the common core is more of an idea, it is not curriculum, it's more of the skills that a child should acquire in each year. the way it it was implemented in many districts was appalling. the union leader said it was a worse than obama care. the roll out of it. districts did not get enough money or tools that were aligned. publishers put a label on books that said they were common core aligned when they were not. what was terrible was teachers had to prepare students for tests for the common court when they were barely, they had a half a day of professional education to catch up on it. that was really sad thing. in principle, they are good
standards, they are meant to fix a lot of problems with our system. it's a huge, complex topic. unfortunately it got completed with a standardized test and other things like while the common core was being rolled out lots of district and state what for accountability measures in which they tied teachers the performance and evaluations to student scores on tests. that just created a huge amount of opposition. there was a lot of things happening at once in the common core got the blame from both sides. >> one of the points are teacher was making here is teachers are feeling that they are hamstrung by all of these things coming from different directions both in terms of what they are supposed to teach and went. yet at the same time they're being held accountable as if they had complete control over things they do not have control over. other comments on that
perspective? >> so it's really important point. i would say one of the things mentioned is there's not enough funding, that is what i would like to address. the system in america is so on equitable because it's based on the property tax model. >> you keep saying in america, is there any, my understanding is it's similar around the world. >> i'm just going to repeat that , so the follow-up was, when we say in america, do we mean in the united states, around the world? how broad is that common appliance?
>> in terms of the inequities of the education system, i think america is probably one of the most extreme examples in the developed world. if you compare the system in scandinavia and finland which is often known as some of the best education in the world's, because of the lower levels of income inequality and social safety net you do not have as many issues in the education system. the bigger point is the education system simply mirrors the economic system. it just perpetuates the existing economic order. if you want to create more equity in the system you have to move away from the property tax model where you have, for example on long island one of the most segregated unequal places in the country. you can drive from new york where the school district has over 30,000 dollars to spend per-pupil and you drive 20 minutes over and it's under 10,000 dollars per pupil. but it's one of the problems. another is in regards to the way
we treat teachers, one of the common phrase that is often used in discussion is teachers working conditions our students learning conditions. we need to treat teachers and give teachers enough pay, enough respect, enough economy. those are the people that our students and children are going to be dealing with on a regular basis. on i'm a big fan of the chicago teachers union and forcing the discussion to the table. they have basically aligned themselves as a social justice union and that they have worked with black lives matter activist, and the 15-dollar minimum wage. that is one of the aspects of it. they're engaging in civil disobedience and to push the issues of social inequity to the table. maybe union, parents, teachers come to the forefront and start actively demanding that this system is funded and
the rich and billionaires of the country pay for a fundamentally equitable system, will not get there. we need to demand these changes in the funding structure [applause]. >> since the panel is televised and it's possible people just tuned in because i think an episode of batman just ended, i want to remind our listeners our panel is the state of education, where we are and where we are going. with us to tackle is barry, a sociologist and college president and other culture of fear, catherine ellison is a pulitzer prize-winning correspondent, author and co-author of nine books. my far left, author schools on trial, his second book. he is still of college going age
himself so he is speaking from direct experience in that sense. >> i. >> i feel like the ideological structures similar. >> so now my panel a lot of people have questions. let's try to keep our answers to one minute range. >> they may be switching channels, i will just talk about teachers conditions and teachers pay. i want to recommend going online and seeing the teacher center if you have not seen it. yeah, some people have that's on going to say. i also like key and peels hogwarts and ghetto -- >> that's get another question here. >> , retired community college president. doctor glasser when you began you presented the concept that we made be creating an environment of fear because of the perception that debts may be
a prohibitive factor of going college. isn't the environment shifting to now, including not just access post-world war ii concept but also the issue of student success, were only two out of three freshmen succeed to their sophomore year in college. about 50 or 55% of of college students graduate within six years, research shows that those students that completing high school have an equal likelihood of going to college and succeeding in college regardless of economics or social economic backgrounds. my question is broader base than just to you. how do we in a softer, or friendly environment than high school create a structure in which these students that need the math to succeed in college, how do we marry the two concepts
together with the math is top and of course the students succeed in college? >> i want to get to the first part of your question but the second part, this question is really about succeeding in high school. >> why just wanted to respond to briefly which is the word softer. progressive education has this image at its worst are being overly permissive and loosey-goosey. if you have been to a good progressive progressive school there are rigorous. the emphasis is on preparing kids for college. when when we talk about here there's tremendous fear with parents that send their kids to progressive school because they don't think they're going to be ready for the workforce are ready for college. but it varies from school to school. high-tech high since about 100% of its students to college. and. and tracks them and they do very
well there. they make sure they are getting what they need even though it's project-based learning and they're out of their chairs. >> so barry will pick up the other part of this. it is the community college president was right because i looked on line and 2013 six-year graduation rate, that's a six-year graduation rate, not the for your graduation rate up for your colleges is 59% according to recent statistics. about half the kids are making it through for your college and six years. so some of that fault has to be on their preparation going in, some is probably the college. >> just very quickly, college success depends a lot on how prepared you are when you get there. after that on what kind of resources you have when you're there. if you look at where you have high levels with the graduation rate in the 90s in six years,
by the way six years is the conventional number that is used for measuring. so we can also look at for your reits. the recently c6 your rates is its conventional is used by the federal government. when you look at schools in the nineties, they are the rich schools. they invest, they have money to invest in all kind of services for the students. the students who come there if they are not prepared when they get there they have all kinds of support. >> in a self-fulfilling they're more likely to have students who are more likely to succeed. >> exactly. so students don't need it as much as the other students. >> right but if they didn't get at those rates would be lower in those as well. so what we have to ask is, where students going to get the resources they need, who is going to provide for that when they get there?
you had mentioned before precollege issue and we won't be able to get into that in detail let me say one thing. wherever we go there and i think there's a lot to be discussed about it pro's it pro's and con including what happened to the traditional other colleges and universities. for that to succeed there'd be a lot of provisions, they would have a very hard time. they're very serious issues. some not serious issues. some not to say it's a bad idea, but then that's only step one. then we have to -- so then what are you going to get out and who's going to provide the resources needed once you get out. >> another question. >> i used to teach at waterford high school for seven years. it's a high poverty rural area
but it has the highest growth and test score in the state of california. he went to the lowest in the can to beating the highest in the seven county region while still having high poverty, high hispanic demographics. we did not talk about technology as a panacea or money, funding or teacher conditions, or the newest curriculum. we said instruction, instruction is going to change, we're going to give teachers the tools to change instruction. we like standardized testing, we would look at it and say, how can we be self-critical, reevaluate, work in teams and use this to help students succeed in at the same time students succeed at standardized the same time students succeed at standardized testing, critical thinking one up, college rates went up,. >> okay. >> my fear with the standardized testing argument is in them. can society, what is the alternative, how do we measure success if we say we are going to get rid of standardized test?
>> let's get a quick run on that one, well put. >> we hear what you're saying, there needs to be some measurement, but what i've been seen was standardized test is schools are under so much pressure to perform or lose their money will have test to prepare kids for test, multiple test to prepare them and it's eating into any time these teachers have to be a thomas are created. >> so maybe once a year would be terrific. >> i just want to say couple things. there is a lot of evidence to show test scores have very little to do with what happens in the classroom. i have never visited your school. >> you should but with the highest growth in the california absolute should. >> from the research i've looked at, what i've seen is a lot has to do with socioeconomic conditions. >> but it didn't we be that.
>> sure. but i think that those are anomalies. i don't see that happening across the board. >> the other point is on the alternative there is a group of schools of public progressive schools that work with disengaged you, and there is the new york post standards consortium and it's a group of more than two dozen schools and they been given a waiver of new york state that instead of given the regents exam which is a state test the only have to give the english and the students can submit a portfolio of a science paper, history project, a man, really showing their ability and skills in a certain subject area. the evidence shows and research is clear they have higher graduation rates compared to other public schools. lower dropout rates, lower rates of disciplinary issues and from
what i've seen anecdotally the students seem happy and engaged in school. that's one model to consider going forward. >> i want a quick answer to this for someone on the panel. >> do you think there is one model for a successful school, or they want to build the school that develops critical thinking skills, making creative use of standardized testing using them to guide teaching toward enhancing critical thinking and other people want to choose a more progressive model, can we have room for both those models, and even more? >> i think yes. there can be tremendous for idea and there is tremendous writing successful schools. one interesting thing is there's a lot of scientific research that has backed up some of the approaches in terms of letting students follow their interests and develop something, develop a passion, there was a great report that came out a few
years ago about how people learn by the national academy of science that looked into that. also integrated subjects, there is research that has backed them up. i'm just saying that some of this is a very substantiated. sounds like sounds like you're doing a tremendous drive, maybe one thing we have not talked about so much is that you have a strong community because there is a lot of research. >> we had a strong leader who would use research-based methods, the parents a very low rates of college, so i don't know what you mean by the strong community. the principal would say we're not going to use extreme gooses, he looked at the schools at 90% high poverty but there is still at the 90% level and he would say what are they doing and were going to implement those the method. >> okay very good let's get a
question from the site. >> i'm a national board certified high school teacher. i'm a community college professor. i'm an af team member and nea member, a sake after member. education is union work. we need smaller class sizes [applause]. we need supportive people of teachers, we need to stop the attack on teachers, your comment about some people needing to find another profession, i understand where is coming from, gates took you to dinner after i presented in san francisco at the digital conference, i just feel that public education is at stake, i agree with everything you said, it cannot be privatized, it's an industry that needs to stay public and equity is not here in los angeles,.
>> okay,. >> so we get the drift of your comment, thank you. any. >> excuse that, it was was not directed at you or anybody you know. it's clear that in any profession there are people who are better than others. there's very strong research linking a student success with the effectiveness of their teacher. a student who will get effective teacher for four years in a row will make gains that other students won't, student who gets a bad teacher will fall behind. >> sure but there's other research to show that beyond union, but much more so that has to do associate namic conditions >> there's also the question and how do you develop a system that creates overall the best teachers, do you develop that by going after the bad teachers or teacher attrition, there's a lot
of debate on that, i think unfortunately were at the ends, three minutes. >> so this will be the rapid response. you really have to ask your question quickly if you want answers. >> my name is dashmac, student at usc. i'm curious what to think about the cost of professional education today of medical schools in law school for costs are approaching a hundred thousand dollars for use. >> answer, anybody. >> it's very difficult to afford these opportunities for many people. it's important to keep in mind to distinction, there's the sticker price you're quoting and then a tremendous amount of discounting for that, we don't have time to find those but many people don't pay it. another aspect is you have to
look at any investment, this is an investment. if you take those loans and you do it you have to do when you get out of medical school to pay those off. there opportunities for ways to do that. versus what are you going to be doing otherwise. >> my question is what are your thoughts on teacher america or new york city or programs like that that take people like that who don't have an education background, throw them in schools for a couple years years and have them teach in the underperforming poverty-stricken areas. >> ..
>> i have a quick one. there are a lot of issues that you are raising. i know a lot of our alums who don't fit that description and are in teach for america and do a greata great job. and i think it is important to keep in mind that many of these people are very committed. >> many of them believe after two years. >> i don't know what the numbers are. >> i want to make a distinction between the individual core members and the parent organization and how that has evolved over the years.
the tsa alumnus. similarlysimilarly ideologically aligned with the president of the la unified school board. >> systemic. >> but one aspect of this is that california is facing a huge teacher shortage, and we need to have people coming into the profession from other fields or as interns, there has to be some way to cope. >> are we out of time, or do we have time for more questions? we are out of time. i want to thank the panelists. [applause] sociologist pulitzer prize-winning correspondent, author. thank you very much. [inaudible conversations]
[inaudible conversations] >> book tv live coverage of the los angeles times festival of books continues. another author panel is coming up today. authors who have written about war. everything we have seen today will re- air tonight beginning at midnight. joining us now at the la times festival of books what
would you say is the reputation of the teeeight? >> depends on the time you're talking about. if you are talking about the teeeight from 1950 until 2002 the reputation got aggressively worse and culminated in a 1992. and that really knocks the reputation. now, since bill bratton came to inform the department in 2002 it got progressively better. an enormous amount of reform and is on the cutting edge of reform in a couple of different areas. >> what would you say the attitude of the lapd
officers is? >> the attitude, i have described it is arrogant, paramilitary, confrontational and commanding. if you were approached by an lapd officer it would be an unpleasant experience. if you are an african-american approached it was 100 times worse. >> when you talk about reform what kind of structural reform has been made here? >> it has changed a lot. one of the training elements is away from the crime. of course it is still there. much more toward community, being courteous, friendly to
the public. right now they are working on a new shooting policy which is innovative. >> our guest is the author of blue the l.a.p.d. longtime professor of journalism here at usc and the west coast editor of the crime report. we willwe'll put the numbers up on the screen. (202)748-8200. 748-8201 for in the mountain and pacific. we are talking about policing in la and also in america we can extrapolate. make those nationwide. so you can also send a text
message. 202717 9684. that is just for text messages if you want to send fat. if you do send fat please include your 1st name and your city as well. why did policing become paramilitary over the years? >> well, not all policing became paramilitary. new york city did not have a paramilitary police force. los angeles was the leader starting after world war ii. though parker, modern-day godfather had just gotten out of the army. the marine corps was very popular. lapd started to be trained in marine corps training style.
and that grew and grew. southwest and into the midwest started coming paramilitary style. >> what did that due to the culture? >> of the police force. it made it extremely unfriendly. it made it view the public and particularly people of color as the enemy kamas people who might be about to commit a crime and had to be treated that way. >> so, what would a police police officer say about what you have written? >> i'm glad you asked. when i wrote my 1st book a lot of people were happy with that book.
equally critical the chief year or a blurb that was very favorable. it has been very positive. >> rank-and-file police officers. when you talk to a rank-and-filea rank-and-file, what are some of the comments they made. >> i think there are two kinds of reactions to the book. there is the favorable reaction and older officers
who say no way. but you don't get that too much. seems to be favorably impressed. there were getting beaten up by the press locally and nationally. camenationally. came in and said we can have an effect on crime. they can have an effect on crime and can work with the community and innovate. i'm going to have my
captains innovate and start community policing. every time there was an outrage committed he would attend to it anddo so publicly. the other thing he contributed was choosing charlie beck, the current chief of police. >> youpolice. >> you talk about community policing. >> it is particularly necessary. it is theit is the next stage. it is particularly necessary and communities of color and means number one establishing legitimacy within the community. they accept you as having the right to be in the community. it is not having an occupying force and talent
very biased and should not be biased should be objective taking the left-wing totally biased stance. it's absolutely embarrassing. it's a total, total embarrassment. i believe he is illegitimate. >> well, thanks. all i can say is if you think my book is biased than you would think charlie beck, bill bratton, and a host of police chiefs and commissioners around the country trying to work on the very things i have been talking about our biased as well. i think you are living in 1972 and might think about getting into the future. >> shirley from right here in los angeles. >> i was born and raised here in los angeles.
i have had interaction with them. one was who were having trouble with some homeless people. and i thank you for your service. there were some facts. they came immediately and take care of the problem. everything wasproblem. everything was peaceful. we appreciate our cops here in los angeles. >> ii appreciate the l.a.p.d. as well. i've been critical i believe they should be criticized. now that they are working to be part of the community i think there doing a great job.
>> darrell, you are on the air. >> thank you for taking my call. i grew up in los angeles and it lived in southern california most of my life. basically i am interested in a topic for obvious reasons. my question really has to do i appreciate the comments on the show alexander's work. listening to this good program about how to deal with a serious problem that covers the whole country. i would like to hear your comment on what i thought was a key point, the 4th amendment, and i'm looking desperately for a best practice model.
as i hear in the program so i may, maybe l.a.p.d. for all the reasons you mentioned earlier, it could be studied as a potential best practice. i take some classes on organizational development. >> before we hear from mr. dominic do you remember the rodney king era? what was your attitude toward the police? and what does it mean twc? >> well,well, you know, basically i remember it well. i remember how my whole life basically i have dealti have dealt with police often on. for the most part honestly i have not had that experience. i have been lucky.
i think rodney king incident was just a series. i think because of the camera and the video that was captured and nowadays what is going on is just come i remember it well. it is not shocked by it. there's so much visibility, but now everyone is admiring the problem. i am happy one of my sons got stopped. although he has a traffic warrant kemal little simple thing. it was dealt with very nicely by the police woman who stopped him. he still went to jail and took care of that. i personally do not too many african-americans, but a community policing mindset here. and i have never been stopped. uplift or seven years.
>> thank you for your time tonight. >> there is a lot there to comment on. was really an excellent book. with the freedom that came to african-americans in the 60s with the civil rights act of 1964 1965 there was a crime wave. and i crime wave was dealt with by mass incarceration, focus on african-americans who were expounding in the war on drugs that just destroyed the african-american community during the 80s80s and 90s which is not to say they are still not remaining a serious problem with black on black crime in our cities. >> a policeman here in los angeles county.
do they get assigned to different districts? >> that is right. compton is a city on its own. there are police officers in our community policing program to sign on to work in the housing projects which have traditionally been the birthplace for a lot of crime. they commit to staying there for four years and try not to arrest the young people but to help jen people to get straightened out. >> next call.
>> thank you for taking my call. as soon as i mentioned his name your author will recognize them. i followed him since the late '90s. he was a journalist with abc at the time and got himself smuggled and ended one of the 1st interviews with osama bin laden. and then pass that point he has been policing and counterterrorism in new york la i think he is back in the new york area. i have read a book by him. i try to follow him the best i can.
and i just want to put the name out there and see what your response was. >> sure. john is very close to bill bratton. was with them in new york city in the early '90s. with them now. he is a smart guy. trust them implicitly. i'm not sure how much of an influence he has. >> the motto on the side of the police cars is to protect underserved. is
underserved. is that a motto that is the attitude, the culture? >> the attitude and culture did not support that. that motto came into existence. the terrible police chief will allow the brutality of was going on to go on. i would say that their growing into that motto. >> the rules of the game been well thought inside the department. he told the story that would sell and covered everything else up. next call. >> thank you for taking my call.
i am calling from the san gabriel valley. i lost a brother in police custody. apparently they went and hogtied him and put an extensive amount of weight and he went into cardiac arrest. the entire episode of getting an attorney, it was a horrible experience. by the time a child it was set the local police department went ahead and settled out of court. i am very involved in my community here where i live, and recently i witnessed the person laid out on the side of the road. i saw a police patrol car come toward me, so i try to stop them to let them know. this patrol car passed right
by this individual that was laid out on the road. i pulled around and within 15 minutes i saw for police patrol cars all pass a human being laid out on the side of the road. >> all that said what would you like to see reformed? >> was this the l.a.p.d.? >> this was a mobile police department. desensitization. coming to a place where there is a desensitization to human life. >> we got the point. >> tens of thousands of police departments in the united states made up of human beings.
>> la is a pretty liberal city. why is reform been so hard? >> that is a very complicated question. it was hard for a long time because we were living in the late 1970s and 1980s and 1990s. peculiar sets of circumstances here in los angeles. the powerthe power of the police in chief and the difficulty in firing them. and the chiefs of police and los angeles became political powers onto themselves and were operating really unaccountably. so how supportive is the
political establishment of the police community? >> i would say the political establishment has finally one. in terms of reforming the los angeles police department was a long haul. it started in 1992. his tenure and maybe police commissioner which said -- should have been supervising. it is a very strong commission right now. >> why is tom bradley a central figure? >> he was the mayor of los angeles for 20 years. the 1st african-american mayor of los angeles.
a fairly liberal democrat and a former police officer. so the problem with tom bradley was he never really decided to reform the los angeles police department because he was a black liberal in the city that was obsessed with the crime rate it is neverjust never garnered the political courage to do so until after the riots. >> how about bringing a cop on the air to hear their side? good idea. thank you. ii am a world traveler of more than 38 countries. i cannot name one of the country other than the us that has a policy to shoot to kill. >> the policy, the shooting policy and many police departments is very, very broad.
this is because of the supreme court decision that says that the standard was that a police officer could shoot if a reasonable person thought that he should shoot that is a very, very broad standard which the l.a.p.d. is now working to change. and training officers to work as hard as they can to de-escalate the situation, and they are now putting that into their policy, that officers have to go to every step before they use deadly force. >> san angelo texas. >> are you talking to me? >> we are listening and waiting to hear from you.
>> go ahead. >> well, i am speaking is the wife of a police chief. in california but in texas. and the question i have is, if there is no crime they would have no reason to be in contact with the police. i would think we would like to put more emphasis on the idea that civilized citizens should behave according to the law and then they wouldn't have any trouble with the police. >> i'm sure that you are a white woman. the problem, ma'am, is the
police don't just try to prevent crime and arrest people for committing crimes. they are about control. and that is why we have 5% of the world's5 percent of the worlds population and 25 pee in the world who are incarcerated. >> the book is called blue. this is live coverage of the 21st annual los angeles times festival of books. anotheranother author panel live today command he will take you into newman all. this is a panel on war.