tv After Words with Sue Klebold CSPAN May 2, 2016 9:12pm-10:10pm EDT
system, the people who are creating the ratings are judging the ratings as well. how would you like to see that? >> guest: right now you have a 24 member body. the fcc report that created this, 24 individuals, chairman between the cable lobby, the broadcast lobby, and the motion picture lobby. there are 18 emissary of executives,, and are supposed to be five public interest individuals. the conversations i have had , all five are not filled, andfilled, and you gets to approve through those five individuals are? it should be more even, more scientists involved. more psychologists, clinical psychologist who are aware of the impact of media on children. and they should be some consequences there is a
continued ms. miss rating, if the industry executive sits on the board and says there is no problem, please move along. there is no consequence. i don't know if it was intentional but maybe it's just a fact of can misleading and fraudulent. >> nor aggressive enforcement would be inhibiting the creative freedom of people in hollywood and there would be authors, creators forced to move shows to cable or motion pictures, the shows on television would become, you know, not as edgy or whatever you want to say as they are today. >> harming the creative community. >> right. >> you can produce whatever you want to produce, but let's do it accurately. beyond just television we have seen evidence and
motion pictures as well. there was a study by the annenberg school two years ago that showed there is more gun violence on pg-13 movies than r-rated movies. there are a couple of reasons for that. the studios make more money on pg-13 that are. they will find anyway to get the violence in there. the 2nd is, there is a desensitization of the ratings, those who rate the content themselves. someone said a couple years ago, pg-13 should really be called our 13. and it was created because of an effort, there was a gap between pg and r, a lot of wiggle room. there are still wiggle room. how many after words can you use in pg-13?
it is like two or three, but nothing more than that. a parent using that word is arrest -- is a red line, yes or no. it is not two or three times is okay and for his bad. it is happening in motion pictures and on television. >> host: president of the parents information council. parents tv .org. you can see the report for yourself. thank you, gentlemen. >> guest: thanks. >> guest: thanks. >> tonight on c-span2 we feature recent bestsellers. next richard engel's book on reporting from the middle east.
♪ >> recently our campaign 2016 bus made a visit to pennsylvania stopping at several colleges and universities where students, professors, and local officials learned about our road to the white house coverage and online interactive resources found at c-span.org. visitors were also able to share their thoughts with us about the upcoming election. visited a middle school to honor eighth-graders for their winning videos in this year's student cam competition. a big thanks to their help for coordinating. you can view all the documentaries at student cam .org. [inaudible conversations] >> now on book tv in prime time, journalist and author richard engel talks about reporting from the middle east for over 20 years.
this is about 45 minutes. [inaudible conversations] [applause] >> hello, everyone. welcome. a great crowd. thank you all for coming out. on behalf of our owners and the entire staff, i welcome you to politics and prose. you can cure? foley get started, can you all hear me in the back? a few housekeeping things. this would be a good time to turn off or silence your cell phone. also, if you don't mind helping us by folding your chairs, that would be helpful. there is a microphone right here this evening. if you could step up with your question, that would be great.
you can also watch it in a few days on our youtube channel. i am pleased to welcome richard engel to talk about his new book. i am guessing you recognize richard as the chief foreign correspondent for nbc news where he reports regularly for a variety of far-flung places and much of the time with things exploding in the background. we are especially glad to have him here in this hopefully more sedate environment. this is the story of his two decades of reporting in the middle east beginning with a stint in cairo or he went after graduating college with two suitcases in $2,000 and the romantic idea of becoming a foreign correspondent. without about his education as a young reporter. how he went from picking up freelance work twining up reporting for major news network chronicling events
throughout the middle east which in one case led to his kidnapping in syria. this book is much more than memoir. he offers astute analysis of the situation in the middle east, on which i heard him tell diane this morning, i have never seen it worse. a deft personal account, a lucid, alarming overview of where the middle east has been and where it is heading. before i ask you, i want to tell you, notyou, not surprisingly, he has a plan to catch at the end of the event. we will cut q&a just a little short and try and move everyone to get some book signed. please help me welcome richard engel. [applause] >> first of all, it is an absolute pleasure to be here. i can't remember the last time i've seen so many people in a bookstore, and that is encouraging on so
many different levels. by this book, by all the books. keep the industry going. this book is about the middle east. i moved out to the middle east 20 years ago. i graduated stanford in 1996, and the idea was to go to a place where i thought there would be a lot of news the middle east seemed like a good choice, and i was going to start on my way and become a great foreign correspondent, or at least a working foreign correspondent. i moved to carrboro and looked at the map, hadmap, had in front of me and said comeau where my going to go? saddam hussein's iraq. syria, not much going on. jerusalem, what's going on, but probably oversaturated market to cover. i thought egypt, okay.
and it is egypt. even if it doesn't work out, i'm still in egypt, which is great. i packed up suitcases and took some money and arrived and rented an apartment. and i had an incredibly rich experience. people were welcoming. they wanted me to convert to islam constantly. they would bring me to their homes, feed me things. i was never, ever alone. while it can. while it can be tiresome after a while, it was a great way to become familiar with the culture in the language end in a matter of months i was having very incorrect but basic conversations in arabic because i have noi have no choice when you are living in an apartment where everything is broken and you need to communicate and there is no water and it is a million degrees, you have to learn to talk to people. a set of reporting for local
newspapers and for international radio and then pieces for newspapers. and really have been doing so ever sense. it has been 20 years now. i still live in the region. i am rarely back in the states. i am here a couple times of year to seek families. this inexpensive, readable book. but i am back in the states very frequently. and i have been living there now for 20 years. having looked at the region for this long, and it is a model. like all theoretical models is flawed. can pick holes in it, find reasons why doesn't work, but i like to think of it as a way to understand the middle east right now. and the model that i chose that the book is based around his -- at least in my
mind, a row of houses. whole houses that are on the coast somewhere and they look beautiful from the outside, look like they have been there forever, but they are rotten inside. no one is taking care of the clothing the windows, putting in a dehumidifier apparatus. it is just crumbling. the middle east was a little bit like that. twenty years ago, there was a structure in place. the big man ran the region. the saw family, mubarak, qaddafi, saddam hussein, and it was established, locked in place. it was a lot of appearance, and on the inside there was tremendous rot, ignorance, nepotism, corruption what religious tensions that were kept at bay by this drawing many activities, and like in
these old houses you can contain it, but if you don't open the windows or doors you also make it worse. that was the situation, very fragile. you can put your fingers to the wall and instead the united states but it's shoulder to the wall. so a years ofa years of the direct military action started to destroy the status quo. unleash all of the rot and demons that have been pent-up. and then the very soon to be eight years of the obama administration, we saw and consistent policies. they were supporting the revolution in egypt, and then days later not supporting it in bahrain. supporting the uprising military out and libya, so
zigzagging through the middle east. the combined effect of eight years of military action and very soon to be eight years of this kind of zigzag unleashed all of the rot that was in and the old system as we know it. a period of chaos. egypt is the 1st example of that. there will be more to come. the people of the region will embrace this.
as europe as seen in the last century, following chaos, but they can happen. and we will see how it goes. our government and others around the world will probably reach out and embrace these leaders. it does not have to be a binary choice, chaos are dictators, but afterwards we will reach back and hope for the dictators. i hope maybe they can help find a 3rd path and guide the region to someplace where you have leadership and responsible government, but it does not have to be saddam hussein's iraq. so that is the framework of the book. but i tell it through my eyes, the people i know,
the, the places i have lived, the characters i meet along the way, this thesis i justi just argued i tell over 256 pages of anecdotes. so i hope that it is -- you get to follow along this journey that has been at 20 year journey so far of arriving in the middle east and not knowing what i landed in two, trying to be a journalist. watching all hell breaks loose. and you have to see how it goes. without preamble, i would love to take some of your questions. anything specifically you have in mind. i was told ask you to approach a microphone. while you are doing that, i will take this opportunity once again to say thank you for coming and reading books that i wrote in my other -- [applause]
>> having been part of that world for two decades, those young men and women born in the early '90s, we look at an entire generation of young people in their 20s and what hope do you see for these people who have been part of this turmoil and what can be done globally to help them. >> the reason why we're worried is because the new generation has lived for the last 15 years or so in a period of charles try. they have been living this sunni shia conflict, living the arab persian conflict, sometimes the conflict between cities and regional conflict just living in conflict. it would be very easy for someone to come along and say, do you remember what it is like? give me all your rights, and
i will make all of that go away. .. the reality of the sunni-shia divide is daily, and you can pick date when you remember that beginning in 2003. you can see how they could make that mental association, when the americans came, they created the sunny-she use divide although chronologically doesn't make any sense. >> once again, thank you very much for being here. and for responding.
i wanted to ask you about one of the strong -- potential strong men that your assessment is turkey. the -- >> erdogan. >> i got it. the pyk, the re-assertion of their sphere of influence -- >> got it, got it. >> the empire, yes. >> for the sake of time. the problem with turkey, we could do a whole week. it's one of the most interesting conflicts, or dynamics. as? strongmen are trying reemerge you're also seeing the old empire trying to re-emerge. when there's a breakdown of order, lots of people try to make hay. russian, i think, is trying to rae establish a czarist sphere of influence, and decided the way to do that is through keeping an alliance with bashar
al-assad, making an alliance with some kurdish groups, with iran. and erdogan wants to re-establish the out toman sphere of influence, and the has been trying to do that, but with mixed success, i should say. he has been blamed for re-igniting a war with the kurds when the peace process was going quite well. so his goal of establishing a new world order in the middle east, out of the chaos that was the old ottoman world, i think he and a few others around him are still trying to do that, but he picked a big fight when he picked a fight with russia, and that is limiting his project, and so far the middle east is not lining up to stand behind him and rejoin the ottoman
sphere of influence. so he is still push thing a but with limited success. and looking back, there's no way we'll get through this whole line. solidarity, just stay there. >> richard, thank you for being here. i don't recognize you without your bulletproof vest on. >> the jacket itself. >> much of what we know in this country comes from you from the frontline, an of you interviews or nightly news -- >> a huge responsibility. >> really, when we think of all the countries you have been to and all that you have given us if want to -- you're a respected journalist, i respect -- we have lost such of our men, resources, by going into iraq and afghanistan, and the damage is almost unbelievable, the people we have killed with your bombs. so where i'm going to do you anyway not want me to go but i'm going to go there we entered after 9/11.
two building were hit with planes and building seven comes down. there's a lot more to the story that we are pressure questioning our government and commission. what happened that day? do you have any kind of information for us -- >> what the 9/11 attack? >> yes. >> no. i haven't really studied -- i know the aftereffect, the aftermath of the attack, but the answer you seem to be looking for, i'm not the person who has those. i've lived in the middle east, dealing with the aftermath of 9/11. i wasn't in new york that day. i wasn't in washington on that terrible day. was in the midwest so i'm asking questions. just don't have anything more to add to the debate. >> you keep up with stanford football? >> yes, i do. >> kevin hogan, your quarterback, is from gonzaga. >> thank you very much. >> mr. age -- mr. engel, honestly didn't know your name before this weekend, and aread
about the kidnapping of the nbc news team and yourself in 2012. >> yes. >> and in april of last year, it was retracted. do you recognize this as a false flag being, the group wants to face another group that's bad and they will decide themselves as a bankrupt, in this case -- as a group, in this case sunnis posing at shia. is that right? >> that is right. >> well, are you interested in what role perhaps our own government had? john mccain, lindsey graham, were two senators pushing for this time to arm and fund the free syrian army. was the free syrian army responsible for this kidnapping and then rescue? >> okay. there's two questions.
one about the -- to make it a little more clear, three years ago or so i was in syria with a team of close friends and colleagues, and unfortunately we were kidnapped and helped by a masked gunman, who loaded us into the back of a truck and moved us from place to place. and while we were there to the whole time, all of us, with several arabic speakers, thought these were regime you list, people who were shia militia, and we believed that by the way they were acting and what they were tell us and the way day were behave, and seemed very credible. and we got out, we got out of this horrible experience, alive. everyone on our team made it. then we left -- moved on with our lives. and then a couple of years later we got a tip, and we said, well there may be more there. these people who grabbed you,
might want to look again at them. we did. spent two months digging back and trying to find out who and where, and i was complicated. a lot of the people had since been killed. do believe these people were probablefully all likelihood -- very hard to know -- goes to the point how complicated the situation is and remains in syria where loyalties are often not what they seem, and alliance are of convenience. i think in all lyingly hood they were thugs -- likelihood thigh were thugs, people that wanted a ransom, posing at regime loyalists so in case we got out, they wouldn't know who we were. >> was it's false flying for hiding identity? >> yes. die think this was a conspiracy with the u.s. politics involved and lindsey graham and all this? no. i think this is minute more local. >> thank you.
>> thank you for being here. i'm a current reporter in d.c. it seems much of these -- due to fact you didn't just parachute in somewhere, you were in a region long before other reporters arrived. my question to you is -- >> if i were you, where you go? >> yes. >> would get out of this town. you want to be a foreign correspondent, you by definition have to be foreign. corresponding. so i would look at the world -- this is what i tell other journalists and aspiring journalists, think about what the world is going look like in 20 years. i took other gamble. it's the middle east -- if the middle east had been a boring dulled i would not be here right now and would have had an unsomething career and nobody would care and nobody would be buying this book. if it was 1986, when i left, i
probably wouldn't have gone to the middle east. would have gone to poland or moscow or somewhere else, but it wasn't. it was 1996 and i was looking at the map, and i was thinking the middle east is probably going to be the story of my generation, so i would say to you, go home, think about it for a couple of days, what's going to be the story of the next 20 years? maybe it's not the middle east. maybe it's the environment. so therefore you should go to place where you think the environment is going to be most impacketted. put yourself in a place, like the great wayne gretzky, go to where the puck is going to be, not where the puck is now. so think about where politics are going to be over next 20 years, and then go there. >> would you say maybe africa? seems there's a ton of -- >> i think africa is interesting. the collision of environment and urbanization are going to define the next generation. i'm not sure if the next 20
yours going into the middle east -- you may have missed it. in the last ten or 15 years, there were two major american ground wars in the middle east. one of which didn't go particularly well. and hundreds of thousands of troops cycling through there. as a foreign correspondent are you going to do better in the next ten years? get more action in the middle east than that? probably not. i doubt the 101st airborne division will be deployed in mass to baghdad again in our lifetime. i could be wrong. i don't anticipate another iraq-style war. so, look at the map, think about all the different pieces, and then figure out where you want to be. maybe it's africa, maybe it's an environmental story, maybe zika and other types of horrible mutations that are happening in nature as we warm up this assistant maybe that's the story
of the next 20 years. don't know. >> thank you. >> but it's a fun experiment to think about anyway. wine helps tv and then once you have come to this i dystopia vision, no wipe helps. >> i take that advice every day. >> i melt you several years ago in afghanistan, and i'd like to say i'm happy to be standing here in front of you stateside and we're beg here safe. >> nice to see you again. >> i appreciate your service and i thank you before you think me because you're an unsung hero. >> now have to thank you for your service. so you have to give me that chance. >> my question relates to strategic tools of power. we generally go to military every time. anytime there's an international crisis the military steps up or we look to the military. we did well using economic power
and did well with our diplomatic power with iran. what can we do better diplomatically to not engage foreign leaders but engage the people? >> i think our -- thank you verb much. thank you for your service. up in the pesh valley. >> the province. >> one of the most dangerous, fridge jihad, beautiful parts pf afghanistan, and -- were we out there together and the vehicle broke down and we had to move the -- >> i wasn't there for that. you utilized my knots for the week you -- >> thank you very much. borrowed some equipment off him. thank you. >> i was a fan boy that was sitting there holding on every word you said. >> so thank you for loaning us the equipment. i hope we returned it to you. the problem with american -- not
nestle diplomacy but engagement is the u.s. continues to retreat and continues to go deeper and deeper behind -- to castle. our diplomatic enclaves are castles, and often times it's not the diplomats who running the show. it's security officers who determine who they can meet and when and for how long. and we're losing contact. you can't just listen to people's communications and read their e-mails from behind walls of a castleful you lose contact. you lose the texture. i don't know why the united states doesn't have an effective cultural integration program. in is stan fuel, the former -- istanbul, the former u.s. consulate in the center of the city is a soho house, rented out for profit, and next do there's an italian culture center that shows italian movies, and you can come in and take italia
language classes. a french cultural institute that has parties and festivals seems like every night. one from holland temp u.s. doesn't do anything. generally say cloistered behind walls and have meetings that get put online as they get looked and put on wikileakss and things like that. they need to try to engage more because staying in the castle, i think, opportunity serve our nationals'. i don't know why we don't have a vigorous cultural outreach program. an american study center. they don't really -- we used to have them. to get into a u.s. diplomatic facility now, you have to wait online, and you can't even approach it, really, and i think that does our -- our outreach -- if somebody goes into istanbul in an italian cultural center and they're welcomed and watch a couple of italian movies and
have pizza night, something simple like that. if you're a local kid from the neighborhood it can actually change your impression of the country over time, and if you too that every day it means -- >> yes, in "lawrence of arabia" influence your career? the man, the myth, the movie. >> the legend? yes. [laughter] >> the only answer to say. when i moved out to the middle east i was a kid. i still sort of feel like a kid. i moved out to the middle east and i wanted to do this when i was very young boy, and i was 13 years old. was with my family, and we were in morocco, and we were at a hotel, a glamorous hotel, and i was about 13, and i was sitting on the steps waiting for my mother to come out. she always came out very well-dressed and put together, jewelry and clothes and she was from another era.
and i was waiting there in front of this grand hotel, and there was a horse carriage right in the center of marrakesh, and i i had the international herald tribune in my hand. doesn't exist anymore. and my mother came down the steps in a cloud of perfume and says, you should work there one day? it's based in paris. there it is? i'll be in paris, i'll be in my office with my type writer and my cigarette and the holder and i'll write the next great novel. that is what i wanted to do. so was it just "lawrence of arabia"? no. it was the whole romantic eto thes offing in an exotic place and doing something exotic. still hike the concept. >> is your mother a fan of greta gash garbo? >> i have to ask her. there's a flare.
if you're not having fun doing it -- there-under easier ways to make a living. >> tick taters coming out of these revolutionary situationses some another might be the installation of a puppet regime. we go in, we find ourselves in these wars often claiming to be the -- to be bringing democracy to this area. is the any realism in that in terms of country after country, syria or libya or any of them? and how is that it taking place. >> there are two sort of questions in. there will there be attempt to install strongmen? will there be attempts by other governments, other powers, to put in their own puppets? absolutely. will they succeed? not sure. i'm not sure that every would-be strongman who is proposed bay regional go or by his own
people, is going survive. some will get bumped off and some won't make it. so it will be a work in progress. the other question is, can there be democracy in the middle east? i hope so. i think they're not -- people are people. i think it's going to be hard this next period because they've had such a recent traumatic experience. i think they'll be running away towards civility, but there can be -- of course. there are people -- they don't want to live under an oppressive system but we can't build it for them. it adds a whole nuther layer of rejection that makes it difficult. >> someone who as hand getting news from you for a long time, i'm won at thing are where you gutture news from and are there blogs or sites you might recommend?
>> you're not going to look the answer because there was no one place, frankly. you just have to read a lot. have to look at social media, read newspapers, read books, have to read. the thing i tell people the most is, read. i read a lot of books on the middle ages and the crusades. my pet project of mind. passion. because a lot of what i do actually is religious study. it's the middle ages and the crusades in a gnaw place, new time, with new weapons. -- in a new place, new time, with new weapons. the more you read, you can fill in the picture. a read another lot of -- i find them interesting and illuminating. that would be the key thing. no blogs or tweets or facebook post's or amalgamation of that. that is the answer. the more you can read, the more
you can read real books, almost on any subject, the more you will learn on the subject you want to know. you're in a book store. all of the products. >> i spent a little time in iran and the middle east. i find your analysis sobering but probably realistic. -- [inaudible] -- every time revolution the aftermath is dictatorship. i'm wondering there's no middle space. it's going to be really hard to have some tell creak forms where there isn't re appropriation. member they emphasize -- part of the iran revolution, there was no vibrant middle class -- >> education and middle class are the solution. over time you need education and
people to have at money in their pocket. if you're desperate, cow don't have a lot of choice. if you have no knowledge because you have been deliberately miseducated by your government you tack whatever your given. long are term, education and economic empowerment for women. >> is it a possibility for that to happen? >> iran, since you brought it up, is a really interesting case right now. was just in iran. just got back a few days ago from iran, and i went there to see about the implementations. the iran deal that was recently agreed to, there was an implementation day a few days ago, and that seems the iaea that iran followed the rules and the sanks should be lifted and that prois underway. and i was there and i was talking to people who are very exited about change.
met a young woman at the stock exchange. the stock exchange is not bigger than this room, really, and it's a couple of old push button phones, and there was this young, very energetic, stock broker who told me, i run to work. can't wait to get to work. she thinks the market is going go through the proof thingers going to change. you have a lot of people like her -- met other people in the mosques and the -- bazaar about how they'll be able to put goods online and sell them on epay and all these things they've been denied. so they were very excited about entering the world economic community, or returning to it. you have the regime, which has a vesteds', doesn't want to see things changed and wants to have sort perestroika, economic
opening but no political change. is that possible? you have half the side betting it's not and saying, let's open that door a little bit. you're not going to be able to close it again. then there's people saying, we'll open that door a little bit and make sure it doesn't open any wider. who wins? no idea. i have no idea. that's one of the fascinating, i think, things going on, and physical tenths in the region right now. thank you. it's your venue. three more questions. >> just a comment. you just said that education and economic opportunity was the answer. >> the answer to create a more moderate society that would allow a real democracy to work. if you're always living hand to mouth or with a gun to your head you don't have a lot of choices. >> want to point out that's bernie sanders' message.
[applause] >> luckily i dent have to teal with any domestic politics so i'm not even going to go there. i'm not going there. we have so many people who spend all day long talk about this. i'm not one of them. >> i want to ask a question about the picture of -- the struggle between moderate forces and the islamist ones and it's believed that islam will become -- the moderates -- >> the short answer is, i think it will. i think isis is fairly short for this world. i don't think it's going to win. it has a losing strategy and is unpopular. i like to think of isis as a virus in the middle east, and a vie reduce within islam, and like any virus, you have a cold sore, inside you all the time, but when you're weak and you're broken down and you're sick, it comes out and manifests itself and then becomes contagious, to
use this disgusting example. but it's a little bit like isis. it's there, it's manifest evidence itself and is cop taming yous because the body around it is week i think eventually the body will become stronger and isis will go into the darkness. it's the id of the middle east, the dark recess of its mine that it doesn't want to knowledge. so there have been moments of fanaticism in all religious groups. islam as well. and generally history moves on. but there's so much chaos and so many competing interests that are allowing them to have that instability and agree a unified policy, to fill that void.
how much more odious can you get that isis. if we can't agree on anything, we can afree on destroying isis. the world can't. the russias have an agenda -- it's not that it's -- well, the people who are near isis are afraid of that put it's bigger politics. it's the russian agenda. it's the turnishing agenda. it's the iranian agenda. it's the american confused and inconsistent policy there. it's the iraq war. there's so many different reason that explain why there is this black hole in the region being filled by this -- >> all right. so looks like that might be the last thing. >> i'm going to sign some books. >> i found that the concept that -- you always have strongmen.
seems grounded in european history 20th century than what we actually see in the islamic world, if you think about it. you have somalia, libya lebanon, syria, all these global conflicts where, at the end of the war, of the civil war, we don't end up in a place where there's a dictator but, rather, borders and conflicts. on state actors. >> the state system -- this is the last question. i thank you all first. but since we think of the state system -- and it's been around in europe for a long time. relatively new to the middle east. the middle east is an empire. the ottoman empire, before that the caliphate, were more like the roman empire. they were large empires that were run from the center but
really in provinces you ran your 0 on affairs. the modern system with flags and borders and uniforms and national anthems was really just carved up after world war i. so in the recent and relatively new and frankly since world war i it's been relatively unsuccessful in the middle east. the state system hasn't worked very well for the region. and i think that's why if you look at state systems, you had mandates, for a brief period after world war i, few decades of mandates, mostly ruled by the u.k. and france. then after european countries decided, even after, that world war i wasn't enough. they had to commit suicide again with world war ii, the united states stepped in and became the overlord of the state system for a few more decades. ...
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>> in 1999 your son dylan and eric took the lives of 12 students and one teacher in their high-school and then their own and 24 others wounded. devastated those families and affected the whole nation. i think one of the questions people have is why did you decide to write the book now , 70 years later? >> guest: because it's it be that many years to try to understand it and feel that i was ready to write the book. there was much flirting that
had to go on with my heart and healing and if it took that long. >> host: it is a very powerful book. it covers such share range of emotions of grief and anger and with year. can you talk about those emotions and was there a progression? it seemed that the more you learned the more things change for you can you talk about that? >> guest: there is always a progression after a loss of any kind. the progression that i am most aware of from a distance of time was in the beginning i was feeling a victim of the tragedy i was bewildered i didn't understand. or why. i could not make sense of any of it. i was humiliated. grief-stricken. terrified.
and as time went by and i began to understand a little bit how he died i think i became more of a survivor from tragedies or suicide or murder suicide to become a little more active to began volunteering to raise funds for mental health and then i became an advocate somebody that was determined to right the wrongs to make it possible for support programs to occur. so there was a progression in items still in it.
>> thing is that you talk about in the book how could you not know? and at times you do say there were warning signs that had you known but talk a little bit about what you know, then or what you came to know. >> right. unfortunately i had no idea dylan was suffering or having suicidal thoughts or cutting himself he wrote about that in a journal entry i read long after his death. he did have trouble in his junior year of high-school he stole something from a parked van. he was assigned to a diversion program and at that time i was baffled think could understand why he had done such a terrible thing and i remember asking
does this mean something? does this mean he needs help or counseling? and at that time nobody seemed to think that he did. he was given an assessment which was the only tool they had at the time. and he checked off about himself and he checked off nothing about suicidal or homicidal but he needed a job a and had financial concerns. we had the support program in place he promised he would get his life on track deity did. that is what was so confounding. he continued to go to school. and to demonstrate u.s. he
was okay even doing well well, times when he was moody or spend times in his room in to have friends said activities to have no idea of the hubble of the suffering and the disorientation and the filter through which he would see the world and we were not aware of that and tell long after his death. >> host: what are the warning signs now that you tell other families to think about? >> one of the main things is a change of behavior when someone suddenly that it seems very out of character but at the time but they did not believe that was significant because they
believe the fact he was experimenting and a teenager and things would be fine. it if he got in trouble also in school at the same time those are the warning signs it could be something that is terribly wrong we have to do a much better job i wish i had to ask the open-ended questions to listen without judgment or trying to fix things. >> i think some people would say these are typical teenager behavior's. what is that typical behavior to look into more carefully? >> that is the conundrum.