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tv   Book Discussion on Defeating Jihad  CSPAN  May 7, 2016 8:00am-9:01am EDT

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[cheers and applause] >> you're watching booktv on c-span2 with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. booktv, television for serious readers. ..
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>> thomas jefferson. plus a history of jerusalem, also talk with local authors and visit the sights of san bernardino, california. for a complete schedule go to booktv.org. 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors. now we kick off with marines sebastián gorka and his thoughts on how to fight against isis.
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[inaudible conversations] >> good morning, welcome to the heritage foundation. we, of course, welcome those who are joining on our heritage.org website as well as those who will be joining on us on c-span book tv in the future. we would ask everybody in-house if you will make the last courtesy check that our mobile devices have been silenced an turned off. for those watching on line, you are free to send questions, simply e-mail speaker at heritage.org. and i know our guest will be
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glad to autograph them for you as well. hosting our discussion and opening our session today is james jay carafano. national security and foreign policy. he is also the e richardson fellow. [applause] >> dr. gorka serves as the distinguished military theory at the marine corps university. this is where -- full disclosure. so that chair is supported by the marine corps university foundation in which i'm a trustee, which is a fabulous organization, check it out. maybe make a donation, that would be great. but when sib gets up and talk
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about accomplished scholars to work at the university and work firsthand with the marines and soldiers and actually people from other department that is come to the marine corps university and help hem understand the challenge that is america faces today. it's an extraordinary university, extraordinary program and we are extremely proud that seb is part of that. he is also a professor with the u.s. special operations, professor with u.s. oacials command, joint operation university as we serves as legal instructor combating terrorism, of course, and more importantly seb has authored over 140, is that a good number? 140 books, chapters, writings on
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the issues that deal with issue of extremism and global terrorism. and i think the most important credential is i would defy -- this is would be a test. i would defy you to go into the office of the dni or one of the intelligence agency or any combatant command around the world or any of the services and -- and find somebody that hasn't sat in the a briefing with seb gorka. he has brief it had people that are fighting this war and realities and observations and analyzes and his views are extremely influential and important and when he writes a book about how to deal with this long war which seems like it's just getting longer all of the time, i think it's -- for people
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that care about this issue and care about country and security, care about the challenges of the peace and prosperity of the world today, that we ought to take time out and listen to what he hases to say. seb is going to talk about for a bit and then take questions, great. so if you have a question, if you would just raise your hand and i think you'll recognize -- if you'll wait for microphone so the folks that are listening online can hear the question and state your name and affiliation and ask the question. so we will do that and run that till the end of the hour. so thank you for being here today and please welcome me in welcomeing seb gorka. >> that's an introduction that my father would have believed.
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specifically, i must reiterate what was inferred earlier, i wouldn't be here today, i wouldn't have my incredible position at marine corps university or been able to, in fact, write this book without the support of thomas jordan sanders, the sanders family fund my position and made the writing of this book possible but logistically my team is also here, including my editor, so tom, everybody else thank you for actually getting me past the finish line. no more comments needed. okay. let us talk about why i wrote this book. my day job is working with the marine corps, special opterrers and the fbi to help them understand the ideology of jihadi groups whether it's al-qaeda, isis today to get inside the mind of the bad guys. and i think one of the reasons that i'm in an unusual position to be able to do that is not
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because i grew up in the middle east or i come from an arab culture, it's because of the experience of my family under communism. so my parents lived in hungary during dick tar torship and my father was actually responsible for creating a secret christian-catholic underground organization at university to push back on the communist take over of his beloved hungary. his organization was feeding intelligence to the west and to mi6 and reports were landing on the desk of one kim filby so after a few undermining the soviets, my father and all his friends were betrayed in london and my father got a life prison starting in two years in solitary and two years down a coal mind after that.
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this is the story which i opened the book, i didn't want to say but my wife said, americans love a good story so i opened the story of my father and my father being liberated from a communist prison by 1946 escaping across the mind fields into austria and finally making their way out to the best. my father didn't know he had been betrayed, where they asked him where do you wanting to, the united kingdom. that's how they end up in the uk and i was born a british citizen. now i'm a very proud american citizen. the reason that i did, in fact, decide to include the story was a very simple one. i grew up with the mother's milk of freedom and democracy. just instilled in my from day one because my father escaped
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from a communist dick tar -- dicta, -- dictatorship and loss of liberty one generation away. when i saw beautiful clear skies, when i saw the two planes planes fly in the twin towers, i understood that the total ar ains are back. they may not be terrorist but
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totalitarians. today we are facing a similar ideology that sees in a global them or us competition. it is no accident that the ji yady, if you really want to understand the enemy, you must read the key strategies of jihad and one of the most influential, the story really begins with him . qu, the b. his work called milestones, milesstones is a very strange mixture of fascism and it's these people you must read and understand if you wish to understand the threats to
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america and why it truly is an existential threat. these people will be not be negotiated with. they are living in an alis and wonderland fanty. the only thing you can negotiate is how you will be killed. that's the reality. it is completely analogus with attempting to noasht with hitler. it doesn't work. you can negotiate about what oven they are going to put you in and we are in this world.
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the rest of the book the beyond this recognition that the new totaltarians have arrived. it started with the lessons of sonsu. if you wish to win a war you must know yourself and you must know your enemy. we do not know our enemy. we have politically correctness out of control. now it has reached proportions and when the white house, unclassified memo five years ago banned the discussion of religion in counterterrorism training for the fbi or for our military, even saying that the word jihad was prohibited, we entered a new age in which it could become impossible to effectively win this war. for a student of mine stated and
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he will go unnamed, when the enemy gets to control what you're allowed to say about them, you already lost the war. and that's where we are today. when a man in traditional arabic dress runs at a piece cruiser in philadelphia, pumps the whole mag of semiautomatic of policeman and says this is for the glory of god, for ala and the mayor of philadelphia says, it's just a crime, it has nothing to the with religion, then we are leaving in a fantasy absurdity. the fact is you can only defeat an enemy if you understand them on their own terms. and when they say they are jihadi fighting for ala, you do not get to wipe that out of your threat assessment. if you do that, you are
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censoring the intelligence cycle. it would be if somebody said we are prepare to go storm the normandy beaches. look, guys, i know you prepped your parachute, your rifle is ready, but whatever you do when you land, don't mention the word nazi because you could offend a german. that's the absurdity of the kind of situation we are living in and it has to stop. i use as a my template, template that was successful during the cold war. we won a war against a totaltarrian with documents that have been since been declassified and i use this as starting point for my strategy against isis and other jihaddists. the first one is the famous telegram, the 14-page he sent from moscow to washington in
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1946 that explains who is the soviet union and what does stalin believe. that document was the threat analysis. it was an incredibly accurate description of what can call the personality of the soviet union that made it very clear that this nation and allies are motivated by an ideology that will not unless are destroyed. how did we go beyond the analysis of who the enemy is? well, the incredible poor niza was tasked by the administration to write the plan on how to defeat the soviets. in a national security council '68.
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he wrote a plan on how to defeat the union from the outside and the inside, that document was unlike any federal government document i have ever seen. let me just read to you if i may, one short segment from the very beginning of nsc68. i actually reproduce both of those now declassified documents in their entirety at the back of the book so you can read them. let me give you an opening section of nsc68 and ask yourself a question, when i read these words to you from a formally top secret strategy, ask yourself how many times you hear language like this today in unclassified documents, from the rose garden, tell me if we talk like this anymore. the fundamental purpose of the united states is layed down in
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the preamble to the constitution, quote, to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our prosperity, in essence to show integrity and vitality of free society which is founded upon the dignity and the worth of the individual. do we have government documents that talk about the dignity and the worth of the individuals, the blessings of liberty? we understood back then what the founding fathers built this nation upon and we need to reenvying rate and remind ourselves that al-qaeda deny the fundamental true are are therefore an existential threat to the united states.
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so what is to be done? i worked six years, oh, my gosh. too long. i am a recovering powerpoint user. let me just share two slides with you. what is the message of my book? of course, i would like you to purchase it but here is a very simple message. al-qaeda and isis is just another form of total tar tarrianism. it has to be recognized as such. what was the lack of political enfranchisement that jihadi john suffered going to a an elite
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school in the uk and being it manager. not sure what i understand what the local grievances are for the individuals that behead. second, america has defeated totalitarians before and we can do it again. let me be explicit on this. it is no accident that it took america's involvement and leadership in both world war ii and the colder war to defeat the nazis and the communists. that is not an accident. it is a function of the fact that america, we are the only nation founded on the principles of liberty, freedom and the individual dignity of the human being based upon their being made in the image of their creator. this is not an accident. and it will take america's involvement again to defeat this
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new totalitarian enemy but only if we can remove political correctness from our threat assessment and understand the stakes of this war. they are total and global. it is ease to p oopoo isis. really? there are 80,000 armed ji naddies serving the new kalif. it's a reality. they are released officials man yeals on what you can and cannot do with your slaves, explicitly your sex slaves including women that you now own because they are christians.
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now is it -- i'm going to get political for a second because i don't work for the u.s. government anymore. why is it that we are talking about harriet tubman on american dollar bills or trance gender access to toilets when woman are being sold into sex slavery now. does somebody else see, obsessing about slavery in america over a century ago but when slavery is happening today. there needs to be an understanding of what is going on in the world. so what is to be done, to quote a certain individual who may be familiar to you, number one, we have to be honest about who is enemy is and what they want. no more censorship.
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let's get politics out of national security that must end. also we have to be honest that it is not a function of poverty or political enfran choosement but that it's fuir -- pure evil that represents the greatest threat to america. there are other problems, i will admit, yes, russia is a spoiler, north korea but not climate change, okay. sex slavery today. construction fictions and beheading based on what religion you profess. that's the primary problem. allow our professionals to do what they have been trained to do and then the second part operationally.
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it should be our sunni allies, counties that i have worked very well in the past. they are the primary victims of isis, let me be clear here, the majority of people killed by the global jihadi movement are fellow muslims. they kill christians, yes, i understand that, but it's the man in the cage jordanian fighter pilot burnt alive who exemplifies the prime enemy of the individuals. we must support those nations on the front line like egypt, like jordan to be the face of the world but anyone who has served in the region who has traveled there, it will never happen by itself. you will not see an arab-sunni coalition, a real one, 61
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nations, really, there were two nations in the room, let's talk about reality. real arab coalition to fight on the ground to recapture places like musul will never happen unless those governments and those people trust that we are behind them all the way, that we have their six as they say in the military and i can assure you that those governments and nations do not trust america today, and you know what, if i were a sunni neither would i and specially after the last seven half. we need to have the next commander in chief rebuild those brujs that have been burnt, burnt to the ground because most reasonable sunnis think that america is now on the side of is shea extremist with deal with iran, we don't care about aman, we are on the side of the
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murders, that has to be addressed. that war will not be won with us being part of the solution but sunnis on the front line. we have to have push in the propaganda, we are literally not present on the battlefield of ideas. i'm not denigrating the work of our psychological but they are not permitted about doing anything as a tactual levelment we must have a white house driven that shines the light of truth against the enemy and totalitarian ideas and because today this is our problem, from the streets of paris torques brussels, jihad is a lifestyle, it's far too popular and when
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you have the director of the fbi testify openly that isis has 20,000 social media forms and posting 50,000 social media postings every day, it's time to that we started to push back. it's only then when jihad becomes unsexy, unpopular, when we support a version of islam that is portrayed by our jordannian and colleagues that we will eventually win this war and defeat the new total arians, so that's my plan in a nutshell. if you have any questions or you want to know more about the book, it's available outside in but my weapon site the book bookofbriefing.com, my wife and
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i run threat knowledge group. that's also available on line. i think that's half an hour roughly. so we have time for any questions from the floor or if they are being e-mailed in, the floor is all years. hi, i guess one curious question you mentioned at the end a key component of the strategy as many others have discussed is trying to develop other alternative understandings of islam to encounter islam, isis or taliban. i guess that's sort of the 64,000-dollar question or someone would say looking for the unicorn, what sort of developments that are groups -- >> yeah. great question. what's worked?
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when have we seen arab nations that are with the standards of liberty, democracy and represents the government or at least the rights of the individual? to be brutally honest in the 20th century i see two large scaled ones. the turkey and legacy and also the kingdom of jordan. these are the only ones that function in a way that are stabled and cherish the value that is we value and why is that so? what's special about these two policies? well, very obviously, dissolved the caliphate and said everybody in the new republic of turkey can be a muslim, that's fine, but you know what, i'm going to divest, disconnect islam and politics. he said like the founding fathers in america, you can be a muslim but that's a private issue, that cannot inform -- the quran cannot inform government's
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function and policies, very aggressive separation of mosque and state was one model. state department doesn't like an idea where the state defines what a religion can or cannot be and where the military, remember, model was what? the turkish army is going to be the protector of the pe public and identity. the idea that guys in uniform are going to be the grantors, doesn't go well down with with our friends with the state department but nevertheless it worked. jordanians, why is it easy to work with them, why is the military so good, why are they strong allies in the fight against isis? iwhen you have a royal family when it's planned to be
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descended they provide credentials, the king says you should be -- you should do this and you should do, that has and military and royal elite are trained well. i had the royal family members as my students. so the fact is they are socialized with the western values as individuals, then they have a credential that really cannot be gained by extremist, those are the two options. one of those cannot be replicated unless you give it all to jordan. what's the last option? you have to have an attitude legacy that's transposed. i have spoken to him for hours. a man devoutly muslim as he is, you know he has the prayer on
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his forehead. if you read from the army war college carlisle it's deeply about muslim that's trying to wrestle with the question of islam and democracy. but when he tells me look, i did what i did with the islamic brotherhood because i'm an egyptian before a muslim, then you understand what this man is doing. absolutely, islam great, but i'm not going to see my nation held hostage to an interpretation of islam is that is straight from the seventh century. it's people that are trying to reinvigorate but they are black-balled by this administration because he wore a uniform. i remember there was a president, maybe eisenhower who was a soldier before he was a president, but i don't know, i'm a newly minted mean. i have to bone up to these things. jim. >> yeah, before we got too far
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off the jordan thing, jordan as we all know is about 60% refugee and 40% that live there that are jordanians, about half love america and about half hate america. so could you unpack a little more about interfacing jordan and their role in bringing stability back to the region and in dealing with with the global islamist insertion? >> thank you, jim, let me give you not my opinion, let me give you the horse's mouth. we were in the biggest jordanian refugee camp. jordan has absorbed incredible amount of refugees from syria that is almost cracking the capacity of the nation to maintain its economy. let me quote to you the senior, no names, the senior police official who is responsible for
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that camp that had a huge, huge population of refugees. we are asking so how do you see this developing, how is the integration of the refugees into swrordan working and how long can you do this, and he said, look, you have to be clear about this, we as jordanians eventually need need these people to go back to the country they came from. the answer for refugees is not to be forced to go and live somewhere else. it's for the conditions that forced their exodus to allow them to go back. it makes no sense, we cannot fiscally absorb the people as a nation and what sense does it make to transport them even away from their homelands whether it's in europe to europe or america, that's not what these people deserve.
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and as son of refugees, i understand that. when the war fell, what did my participants do? they went back to hungary. they had been forced to live in exile because of the dictatorship that had taken over the country. as soon as the war fell, they were hungarians that wanted to go back to the land of their birth which they had been forced out of. jordan is a relatively small actor in the theater, it has done an amazing job in absorbing as many people as it has. i tepid to agree with the police officer, the long-term reality, long-term goal of any nation concerned for these individuals is not that they try and grow roots and transplant territories or they are pushed even further away from homeland, but eventually they will have to go back to their own nation and that will only happen with american leadership. thank you, jim. yes, please.
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>> thank you, thank you very, dr. gorka. is it feasible to separate mosque and state in the sense that in the muslim religion it's not a union of mosque and state, it's a confusion of both things. it's the same thing. in midieavl christian you had union and it was very clear that it was different. >> great. >> so is it feasible? are we thinking about the -- [inaudible] >> it stopped working, maybe because it's not workable. >> look, you raise a superb question. i don't wanting to down a rabbit hole but the fact is if you read the quran and jadid there's no
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passage, so people think that, you know, the founding fathers separated the church and state, wrong, jesus did. when the clerics said, should you pay taxes, what did jesus say, show me a coin. who's faith is on the coin, césar's faith is on the coinment render onto césar that is to césar. it isn't a catholic thing. it's jesús. my kingdom is up here, this is the kingdom of the seas and even st. paul in his letter says what, obey your masters, obey political leaders. yes, we don't have that moment to render onto césar in islamic descripture, for those who have a fabulous interpretation of islam, i ask them one simple question, who is mohamed, just tell me who was mohamed. what role did he fill in the caliphate?
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number one he is said to be the last prophet of god. number two, he is the head of state. he's the head of state, so i like your discussion, confusion, it's completely the same and then thirdly he's also what a great military leader wiping out huge tribes, just read the stories, read the tradition, yes, in the gene code of islam there's the unitary nation. what's a gang sign of jihadis, we've all seen, pointing the sky, it's unity, unity, oneness of god, oneness of the perfect man. mohamed is the perfect man. we have a challenge. we have a stumbling block but i think until the muslim brotherhood arrives, until
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individuals like eduan arrive it is a way, a wake that does not make diplomats happy but the turkey model, where the person who has political credentials, you have elected me president, he decides what the religion, we don't like that, we don't like the idea that the president is going to say what you can or cannot do as a muslim, right. i don't think what the quran says, page nine, verse 29, what does it say, kill the infidel, chapter 9, verse 29, these are the words of god. what does that do? we don't do that anymore, i want to be a member of nato, not happening, right. so that's how turkey becomes turkey eventually. there is a way, it's fragile. it's dependent on whether the
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political and, of course, we don't like it, we don't like it. but, again, i think it is arrogance that we say our culture must defy what they will do to join us in our global community. that's the ultimate arrogance. let's leave it up to people like césar who are elected as to how they deal with this question. in the front. >> thank you very much. [inaudible] >> if you have to address,
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you're invited to address oic, what message you will have for them, what recommendations you will have for them in case you get such a chance because ultimately to make peace -- i am originally from pakistan, i'm a doctor. there are 20,000 physicians from pakistan who are practicing in usa and none of the patients is there who is not appreciative of their work. >> sure. >> so they're muslims also, so how can we come up -- bring those muslims in the goal who can really separate with the church and the state, between the mosque and the governments? >> look, asking me to address the oic is like asking my father to address the common turn, okay. we are not going to get that
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invitation and it's probably pointless because i would be broadcasting on fm and they would be receiving on am. it makes no point for me to be there. if you wish to make this fantasy real, i would say one thing, i would just ask them very simply, where does the dignity of the individual come from, i would like the oic to tell me, where does the dignity of the individual comes from and what source of human kind are purely, purely revelation and can they take to me about the role of natural law, what is their attitude to natural law, what do they think, we are getting into very special territory here. but i would like to get the oic on the record about where does truth come from, is it just from the quran or beyond the quran because then i think you will see the wolf take off its sheep
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clothes honestly if they are honest about these questions. so lastly, i would ask them about what is the role of religion in politics, all these three questions, revelation, natural law and the role of religion in politician. i would ask question, i wouldn't give them recommendations because i think they are on the wrong trajectory. [inaudible] >> is the arrogance out of ignorance, that's a great question? it's easier to be arrogant if you're ignorant. i don't think the people that are running the oic are stupid. that's the biggest mistake saying that al-qaeda are just crazy people. not true. one of the biggest mistakes we make in the intelligence community and national security is to say they're just a bunch of crazies, wrong, they have a plan. read the people in my book, malak, read asam, read maldodi
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if you read the key strategists of jihad, you aren't these people are random, they have a strategy that's been for 70 years and the thing i wish to stress just on the point on isis, do you realize the enormity of what happened on june 29, 2014? i mean, this is what shocks me inside the u.s. national security establishment. when a man who has named himself after the first mohamed, albadadi, when he walkses up preaching, location at the grand mosque at musul and declare it is reestablishment of the caliphate and himself as the caliph this is the ultimate
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changer. this changes everything. for 90 years the extremist, the jihaddists have been trying to undue what a, -- schools of organizations were createed starting with the brotherhood then moving on and jihad, you name it, all the organizations in one mission reestablishing the caliphate, for 90 years every single one of them fails, all of them fails. what happens a years and a half ago in musul, isis doesn't talk about it. isis does it. it's not possible to overemplez that isis has succeeded when 90 years of jihaddists have failed. that's why i wrote this book. isis is not a jv team, they're
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at the super bowl. isis has blasted al-qaeda out of the water. the people need to understand and another thing, if i may, just to bring it all back home, this is from the report my wife and i did, this is not something happening 80 miles away, ladies and gentlemen, in the last 18 months since the declaration of caliphate we have killed or arrested 98 people related to isis. that's just isis. all over the country from texas to california to new jersey, yeah. it's not a question of when the threat comes here. the question of where the threat is is already answered. they are here.
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san bernardino, what did farook malik do. they sworn allegiance to the islamic state as they executed the second largest attack on u.s. soil since september 11th, the really scary thing is 30% of the people we have arrested have no intention of going anywhere, half of them wanting to to the middle east but 30% have decided that the best way to serve the new caliph is to kill infidels on u.s. soil. these are just unclassified facts of the matter of what the isis threat to america is today. jim. >> could you also update folks on the state of al-qaeda today? we all talk about isis and we tend to forget other people out there. >> thank you. this is -- so isis got to be really big, why? because we were obsessed with
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al-qaeda and when he gets kicked out of al-qaeda, he doesn't matter then, really? he takes all the fighters into syria and builds islamic state, so we are doing it again. we are on assessing on isis, but al-qaeda has not disappeared. al-qaeda is more active than ever specially in africa. right now there's real pressure in al-qaeda to do what? prove relevance, yes, because who has stolen the show, now isis is the coca-cola of soft drinks, you say your soft drinks, yes, the big brand leader is, of course, isis. al-qaeda has to get back in the game. either that or swear to the new caliph and i don't think for reasons of ego he could quite swallow subordinating.
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he may go even bigger. if you want to prove your relevance 3,000 people in 102 minutes may not be enough. we have seen al-qaeda look at weapons of has destruction. remember the videos from afghanistan, experimenting with poisonous gases so al-qaeda has not disappeared. it's very important, this is why i prefer -- i don't -- vilent extremism is absurd, this label the prpks uses of extremism, no, it's not any kind of violent extremism, it's jihaddism, the much better label for the threat is the global jihadi movement, we must appreciate the jihadi movement as hundreds of members, hundreds of organizations, so whether you are a member of abusai, al-qaeda, these are all
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part of the same even the shea, hezbollah, that's a version of jihaddism, it's competing branch of jihaddism, it's the one tha serves the shea interpretation of extremism. so these are all things that we should remember. it's not the connections between individuals that matter, intelligence communities are always looking for -- before san bernardino, did send love tweet to malik, irrelevant. do they share the same ideology, this is the most important thing. if that individual share it is ideology of jihad, fort hood, shooter or boston bombers, that means they are members of the same movement and i think that's the best movement for it. sir, in the middle right there. >> jonathan, have you reflected on any role -- >> it's often brought up as the
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antidote that we all need the more, if you said that, you haven't read the history book. the mystic version of islam seems very attractive as nonconnected. some of the most violent were linked so i'm not looking for the one antidote, i'm looking for attitudes, attitudes to revelation, and reason and truth, and also the most important question, dignity, yeah, what is the definition of where dignity and how many value comes from. so certain aspects of it could be but you're not going to convert a religion into sufi version of itself. not sure by itself is a game changer but, thank you. here in the front, please.
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>> i'm joe with congressman's office. it's not easy to understand having read the quran and islamic movement from outset why we are seeing what we are seeing in the islamic world today. i do find it difficult to understand the response of the current administration and previous administration to the islamic threat. how can we best put that in the proper context? >> okay, what do i have, nine minutes. why did the obama administration get to where it is today? i have two answers to that. one is to do with world view and one is with intelligence and analysis. the first one is the world view, when you have a political that looks at itself as very sophisticated, very modern, post
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modern, if you will, then what is your attitude toward religion, it's probably the religion is just and powership by guys and skirts or whatever. even if you go to church or temple or mosque, if you go to capitol hill, meet people afterwards after doughnut and coffee f your attitude toward religion is a post modern attitude toward religion, you will not understand this war. i don't care what religion you hold. i realize working in the first three years if you don't have real faith, i don't care if you're buddhist, if you don't have faith, real faith, you will never understand a jihadi. if you watch the unedited versions of the videos that i do, when a man takes several minutes to se ver another human
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being's head. it doesn't come from paycheck. there's an individual who was academic specializing in radical islam who was hired by the nttc. he was lifted out of the first obama administration and you could read all in my paper, the full science behind counterterrorism strategy, the flawed strategy -- the flawed science against american counterterrorism. this individual sold the administration, the white house on this analysis. in the world of radical islam there are two groups that believe in the caliphate, the brotherhood that will use not kinetic means like speeding elections or whatever and people like al-qaeda that will actually
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kill you and blow you up. this man convince it had white house, the only way to save america from the next 911 is to negotiate with the brotherhood and empower them because only the brotherhood can save us from al-qaeda. the problem with that analysis, of course, was they both won caliphate, yes. they both want to destroy the west and we are helping people like morsi because we think they are going to kill us what, later, but this is really what -- so world view and secondly giving power to a group that is as extreme as the jihadis, they just have a different methodology we could talk about for hours about why the administration is where it is. >> one more question, sir. >> thank you. >> wait for the microphone. >> i'm john, american
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conservative, i've also written american strategy, in fact, if you search internet my articles are number one and two and i want to just -- i listed all the violations of sunsus of how to win, one of which is war is the last resort, not the first and other things i recommended. but my question is about saudi arabia. saudi arabia and turkey were helping isis at the beginning, the money comes from saudi arabia, the other ones fund all this extremism all over the place and we continue to say we are buddies, killing in yemen killing thousands of people, we provide aerial refueling to saudis. >> is there a question.
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>> invading of the ultimate jihad, it all comes from sowed -- saudi arabia. there are other counties that you mentioned but saudi arabia -- >> okay, is there a question? >> please address those issues. >> i'm not in a position to address america's foreign policy with saudi arabia but in the book i deal explicitly with the most important year in the birth of modern jid -- jihad in 1979. why saudi arabia is a schizophrenic nation, you have to understand mecca. by jihadi extremists against fellow muslims led to a bargain being brought between the house and certain cleric members. it's a long story but it's in
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the book. thank you for the question. [applause] >> you're watching book tv on c-span2, television for serious readers and here is a look at what's on prime time tonight. we kick off the evening annette gordon reed, discussion. after that, the claremont review of books. at 9:00 hit man, uncovers reality of corrupt financial practices and on after words, peter mark reports onto revive aig after the 2008 financial crisis and finish up our prime time programming at 11:00 with
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adina hoffman. it all happens tonight on c-span2 book tv. here is a look at some authors recently featured on book tv after words. aol cofounder steve case told us how emerging technologies are reshaping the internet. mother shooter discussed mental health and how she dealt with the tragedy and ellen malcolm recalls her creation of emily's list, works to elect pro-choice democratic women to political office. in the coming weeks on after words, will argue that measures to alleviate income inequality actually end up hurting low-income americans. chuck will discuss criminal justice reform and recall his 19
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years in prison. also coming up we will talk about america's new working class and potential political power and this weekend peter marks will remember the career of the late aig ceo bob who turned the company around during the height of the financial crisis. >> he was the only person who thought this was probable essentially. i mean, the government didn't think that was going to happen. the company certainly didn't think it was going to happen. they were ready to sell it off for spare parts. so that idea that he was a little crazy, i mean, you had to be a little crazy to take this on. he was the right kind of crazy. ..

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