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tv   US Senate  CSPAN  May 10, 2016 10:00am-12:31pm EDT

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hardest jobs in impossible until they are done. congratulations to all of you in thank you for letting me share this da year. [cheers and applause] . ..
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[inaudible conversations] >> call the senate foreign relations committee to order. we thank our witnesses for being here. i look forward to your testimony. as much of the world concentrates on the ice is a threat and instability in the
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middle east the committee takes this opportunity to consider efforts by the united states and other partners to counter extremism in the sub-saharan africa area. long-term development has been the norm across much of africa including here -- tell you what. even with large letters i can't see anymore. including here in our committee with the recent signing of the power africa legislation which we are all very proud of and appreciate the way the administration has let on that effort also. that we hope will bring investment to a key sector for economic growth and opportunity. whereas in the middle east we have been reacting to terrorist violence and the uprooting of millions of people. and africa we've had the opportunity of years of influence through diplomacy and development and partnerships to improve outcomes. however, violent extremism is not a new phenomenon in africa.
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three subregions have exploded with terrorist elements some decades old. al-shabaab and its predecessors have long troubled somalia and its neighbors in east africa including attacks on american embassies in 1998. al-qaeda and the islamic mcgraw have evolved since 9/11 into a vicious regional threat across the sahel and beyond. they have fought the of june governments since 1991. boko haram which has declared allegiance to isis will stop at nothing to carry out its grotesque attacks against civilians in communities across nigeria at lake chad basin. all three of these conflicts have drawn international intervention and resources because the terrorist elements involved are seen as aspiring to the kind of international terrorism perpetrated by al-qaeda in cases. some are beginning to show increased sophistication in attacks.
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beyond these three conflict and terrorist ridden regions are several complex crises that read on instability, brought on by many factors. the most egregious of which appears to be the complete lack of government responsibility for its citizens through corruption and greed, rather than in a lack of resources. this includes most recently south sudan and the central african republic, and, of course, the decades long atrocities in the democratic republic of congo. all three of which have cost billions of dollars to mitigate through massive peacekeeping operations. while the world seeks ways to address the direct threat of emergent terrorist groups, we have had a chance and still do to improve the prospects for many countries in africa by leveraging long-term relationships and development. i am also concerned to our efforts to gain traction and de-stabilizing other countries we consider relatively stable now.
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i look forward hearing from our witnesses today, the lessons that they have drawn from the direct engagement in these regions, and hope to better understand what the underlying factors are that contribute to the terrorist threat in the region and what use efforts have been made to build a better responds across a whole of government and with partners and international community. without i will turn your distinguished ranking member, ben cardin. >> thank you very much for convening this terrorism and instability in sub-saharan africa. i agree with your assessment the amount of violence in this region escalating is of major concern, and requires the attention of this committee of the united states senate and the american people. i also agree that there are multiple reasons for the instability and crisis in this region, but that there is a
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common theme before governance, and that's an issue that provides a vacuum and that vacuum is usually filled with instability and recruitment of extremists. so i very much agree with you this is an area of growing concern, in regards to the amount of violence that is taking place, and one that requires us to put a focus on the governance structures in the countries of sub-saharan africa. and it's true, it's west africa to the late chad basin to east africa, and west africa circumstances and mali. we find marginalization of ethnic groups that have become now held for at least five active terrorist groups, breeding ground for terrorist recruitment. the u.n. mission in mali is the most deadly peacekeeping mission that we have anywhere. that is, should be a sign that things need to change in regards
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to mali. we have the parties coming forward for a peace agreement. well, we need to seek immediate attention to that and see whether, in fact, that peace agreement can be implemented. into lake chad basin, in nigeria, is of particular concern. boko haram as blinked which is closed -- pledged its allegiance to isis. we will see how that alliance takes place or not, but we do know it is extremely deadly, the number of deaths have escalated dramatically, 15,000 since 2009. 2.4 million displaced people, 5.6 million in need of food. these numbers are shocking in their size, but i think the world became engaged in this win 200 schoolgirls were kidnapped, and yet their fate today is still not known.
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in east africa and somalia, we have to take careful attention, we know that. and in all of these regions there's a common denominator of lack of good governance. this year in somalia it's said to be a critical one for the consolidation of the somali state. constitutional referendum at completion of the federal system are supposed to occur. of the establishment of a fully functioning transparent and inclusive government it will be difficult if not impossible to eliminate the threat posed by al-shabaab. while the threats have been clearly identified, what is not evident is whether the united states is consistently applying a comprehensive approach to countering violent extremism in africa. one which adequately addresses key drivers of radicalization such as political and economic marginalization. corrupt governments and whether steps have been taken to build the type of capacity and african countries to counter the violent
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extremist activities. i hope today's hearing will help us all better understand the package of programs and activities we are bringing to bear to combat terrorism and violent extremism in africa, and what, if any, efforts the administration is making to fully integrate principles of democracy come any corruption and good governance into our approach to security assistance alone will not win the battle. mr. chairman, let me quote from deputy secretary of state tony blinken recently said in regards to the counter violence extremism, quote off like that over time will be one in the classrooms and the house of worship, social media, committee centers, sites of cultural heritage come on the sports field and with the gnomes of the in every corner of the planet. given housing typically underfunded democracy and governance programs in africa been over the past several years, i don't see how we could be reaching the threat where it is. that there are two steps we can
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take right way to do so. first, it's a point in making to the administration for nearly a year. it is critical we increase investment in democracy and governance such as are commensurate with our security assistance funding. in fy '15 the last of which figures are available we allocated approximate $1 billion for saturday assistance and only 170 million for democracy and governance. i hope, hope is you discussed allocations for fy '16 with the appropriators, you indicate you will meet the $312 million democracy and governance in africa called into him to this report language. and hope you will -- have a chance to talk about that. the united state united states o our partners to support at the expense for respect for democracy and human rights. i fear we sent the wrong signal to ethiopia about our priorities in this area by goin filling ths would human rights and democracy activities in that country.
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to cite one example is critical we take the prime minister up on his offer from last july to work with us in improving democracy in ethiopia. we should be assuring our saturday assistance and support for institutions that support accountability, counterterrorism partner countries with weak democracy and human rights records. so mr. chairman, i hope during the course of history we will hear from our administration official exactly what is our coordinated strategy? yes, we want to fight extremism. we have to do that. we have done the military security assistance but if you don't have been in place the governors that represent the concerns of the population, there will be instability and a void in which extremist will capitalize on. i look forward to our discussi discussion. >> thank you very much fo for te comments and again with our witnesses. i want to introduce all three of you and then if you speak in the order that you introduced i would appreciate. our first witness is
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transcendent and assistance to get your african affairs at the department of state. welcome. our second witness today is linda etim. assistant administrator for africa at usaid. and you for being you. our third witness is justin siberell -- no? need a little help. acting coordinator for counterterrorism at the department of state. want to thank you all for being here for your service to our country, and if you could summarize your comments in about five minutes that would be great. without objection your written testimony will be entered into the record. so thank you. >> mr. chairman, ranking member cardin, and distinguish numbers of the committee, let me thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. i had a very brief oral statement and i provide more comprehensive written statement for the record.
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africa is home to the worlds youngest and fastest growing population. it presents significant opportunities for transformation and growth as well as many challenges. the overall trends in sub-saharan africa point to accelerated democratization, development economic opportunity. although africa remains the world's least developed continent, average real per capita income increased steadily over the last decade and have. however, inspite of these positive trends, instability and conflict presents -- persist in parts of africa. this instability has a direct bearing on u.s. national interest and those of our closest allies. allies. terrorists, narcotics traffickers and a range of transnational criminal organizations -- and conflict. conflicts, destabilize states
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and borders. it stifles economic growth and it robs young africans of the opportunity for education and a better life. while they -- attacks offer tragic miners terrorism can happen anywhere, africa has critical vulnerabilities and capacity gaps that must be addressed. therefore, we are working with our african partners to increase their abilities to prevent and respond to such threats. and to address of the condition that perpetrate the cycles of instability and conflict across the continent. addressing instability in africa requires a comprehensive and a balanced approach, as you've stated. we cannot focus on on the security aspects of a solution. military, intelligence and law force but tools are vital to defend the range of threats but they cannot replace robust diplomacy and the hard work required to strengthen democratic institutions.
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to stimulate economic growth, trade and investment and promote development, education and broad-based economic opportunity. the state department, usaid and the department of defense known as the three d's, and several other agencies offer unique expertise and capabilities, and it is essential that each organization has the tools to contribute to our common objectives of building immediate and long-term stability in africa. as you stated, senator cardin, civility begins with building a strong and stable democratic processes, addressing individual and collective grievances created by lack of governmental accountability, corruption, denial of basic human rights and fees of political inclusion is not just the right thing for government and civic leaders to do, it is a security imperative. stability in africa ultimately requires leaders with the will
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and the capacity to respond to the needs and aspirations of their people. we continue to stay focused on supporting free, fair and transparent elections that are inclusive and representative. we have seen major electoral success seen major electoral successes to the past several years but there have been some setbacks as well. however, democratic governance is not only about elections. national and local governments must deliver essential services for their people. civil society and a free press must be empowered. independent judiciary's must enforce the rule of law, and professional security forces must respect human rights. president obama has also highlighted that the most urgent task facing africa today and for decades ahead is to create opportunity for the next generation. young people constitute a majority of africa's population and stand to gain or lose
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tremendously based on the continent's social, political and economic trajectory. they also represent the next generation of african leaders. they must be empowered to contribute to their countries future so that they are not enticed by extremist ideology. president obama has warned about the vulnerabilities and i quote, the vulnerabilities of people entirely trapped in impoverished communities where there is no order and the path for advancement, where there are no educational opportunities, where there are no ways to support families and no escape from justice and accumulation of corruption that feeds instability and disorder, and makes these communities rife for extremist recruitment, unquote. we know that groups like boko haram, al-shabaab, al-qaeda and associated groups often ensnare the foot soldiers by simply offering cash for promises of financial reward for themselves and for their families.
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it's vital that government sometime in partnership with the private sector use every available resource to offer educational and vocational opportunities that provide alternatives to these lethal traps. we also recognize that strengthened the security and justice institutions our african partners is vital for long-term stability on the continent. so as a consequence we're partnering with african countries, with organizations, with people to develop capable, professional security services, improved security sector governance and enhance regional coordination for more effective responses. once again i thank you for the opportunity to speak to you and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. >> good morning, chairman corker. good morning, ranking member cardin, and all the members of the committee. at also thank you for this opportunity to discuss usaid's work on this very important
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topic. throughout africa u.s. national interest at our efforts to promote resilience in the democratic societies and to increase economic opportunities for people are increase threatened by the instability and the threat of violent extremism. we believe and as this committee has stated the development program can be a powerful tool to prevent conflict and instability. conflict and instability can't impede development. baseload investment, prevent children from attending schools as we've seen, to place additional burdens on already fragile health care systems as we sink into the bowl of response case. at the end of our political system. we also know that activities are designed to reduce opportunity for extremist to export social injustice, economic inequality, the lack of political integration, and we need to actually make sure that these activities help to advance development programming throughout the countries.
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today i will try to discuss our programs which are based on strategic thinking at evidence-based results oriented approaches seek to prevent violent extremism in africa but i will also touch on the boards of usaid's governance program which seek to reduce social inequalities, corruption and weaknesses that can often foster instability. when you look at the drivers experience has taught us responding to military conflicts that erupted in fragile states by deploying large peacekeeping missions or large-scale and often our long-term jamaican responses are very costly. for that reason whenever usaid design this program or a country study we used our capabilities and knowledge of local context to reduce the drivers of fragility. these assessments consider the push factors that drive the support for violent extremism such as social fragmentation, a sense of injustice, perceptions of marginalization and distrust of government. we also tried to address the factors that can attract those
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who are vulnerable to violent extremism. this analysis helps shape our intervention to promote good governance and rule of law and respect for human rights as well as sustainable, inclusive development. we don't have one single answer as to what causes violent extremism. a decade of analysis are shown there's a strong correlation between state fragility, feelings of rejection, marginalization as drivers the violent extremism. in 2011 usaid issued a policy which we entitled the development response to violent extremism and insurgency. this policy recognize developments unique role and advancing u.s. national security. usaid activities are designed to mitigate these a drive-by increasing resiliency at all levels. at the individual level we target marginalized communities particularly youth through employment, outreach programs, vocational training skills and community development activity.
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at the local level we focus on social cohesion activities, peace committees to build stronger resilient communities. at the national level of usaid has an important role to play in strengthening government institution and the ability to deliver basic services but also to encourage inclusion and better transparency. youth are a key demographic and are program and while there is no one profile of what at-risk youth look like, unemployed youth have migrated to urban slum areas are university graduates were no expectations and have lived through a participate in complex can be at the greatest risk. they are for our programming focuses on this important demographic. in kenya 75% of the population is under 30. that our generation programs. we offer targeted training to at-risk youth populations, closing the gap between young people or out of work and employers who are short of employees with skills. generation kenya plans to place more than 50,000 young people in stable careers by 2020.
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going forward we will expand this program and to violate extremism hotspots hand-in-hand with communities, local and national governments and the private sector ensure its success. in nigeria are peace to develop an progress delivers greater county which is an accountant extremist nurses to active reporting in peace messaging. abridges over 1.7 million, or 40 of the most at risk communities. we've also directly through this program engage nearly 100,000 people through civic education, moderate voice promotion and use and fought empowerment events. these programs we believe increase citizens engagement with the government and decrease incentive for young people to take part in illegal or extremist activities. in conclusion, instability is often the product of generations of neglect and corruption and its resolution would be the product of generations of concerted focus, agenda engagement and met expectations
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but because the trends are fluid we know we must constantly reassess our priorities, our progress and are posted sure that our work is based on the realities of the day. through program assessments, implementation and evaluation, we are learning what works and what doesn't work of improving best practices and helping individuals and communities to address these drivers of violent extremism on their own. through the work of our mission in the field after usaid supported activities and resource centers. usaid commitment is evident of the number of individuals dedicated so we know we can do it alone. sustained engagement with strong partners in the us government for the departments of state and defense, through the work that your committee is doing, and with the donor governments as well as with our partners in religious communities, local government, civil society organizations, all of these different groups on the ground who will be key to combating extremism and they will be key to securing peace and stability for years to come.
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i think you and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you so much. >> mr. chairman, ranking member cardin and distinguish them of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. as outlined in a state of for the record a number of terrorist groups remain active in sub-saharan africa including al-shabaab, al-qaeda in the islamic, boko haram, als also kn as the islamic state west africa province. regional military forces with the united states and international assistance have made progress against all of these terrorist groups. terrorists a savings and somalia, northern mali and the lake chad basin have been degraded significantly. however, in the face of this pressure these groups have shifted to go asymmetric tactics including attacks against soft targets. we've seen this dynamic in west africa recently. over the recent months aqim have carried out a series of attacks
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against international hotels and tourist sites, and mali and other places killing scores of people including an american citizen. similarly in east africa we sing shabaab become increasingly aggressive enforcement attacks against high profile targets in somalia and across the border in kenya. we are concerned by the risk that isil prices that go in the continent. as we've seen elsewhere in the world isil seeks to co-opt existing terrorist groups as well as local insurgencies and conflicts to expand its network and advance its agenda. we are watching these dynamics closely. we are working with partners to content and drive back isil affiliated groups were ever they may emerge. united states is committed to building and sustaining partnerships across africa to counterterrorism and promote stability. partnerships are at the core of our approach. this is reflected in her interagency efforts as well for the partnership for region east
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africa counterterrorism come and the trans-sahara counterterrorism partnership. try to be nice if the providing significant support for regional military operations. to our diplomacy department of state continues to encourage regional leadership and cooperation to sustain these efforts. militant efforts alone are insufficient. as we do with evolving threat environment, the success of our efforts in africa increasing the depends upon capable and responsible and responsive civilian partners. police, prosecutors, judges, prison officials and community leaders who can help address cares challenges within a sustainable and rule of law framework that respects human rights. in this regard the department of state is training and mentoring law enforcement units for more than 15 african countries. were building the capacity to prevent and respond to terrorist incidents, conduct terrorism related investigations and to
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improve land border and aviation security. we are providing significant assistance for african prosecutors and courts effectively and expeditiously handle terrorism cases. we are working to enhance the capacitcapacity of prisons thata good effectively handle terrorist inmates in accordance with international human rights standards. mr. chairman, we greatly appreciate the funny provided by the congress in fiscal year 2016 for the departments counterterrorism partnership fund. this funding will enable us to expand our assistance for law enforcement and justice sector efforts in key african countries are at the same time the department and usaid are increasing our focus on preventing the spread of violent extremism in the first place. to stop the recruitment, radicalization and mobilization of people especially young people engage in terrorist activities. we are expanding engagement with africa and partners to better understand the drivers of violent extremism in order to design effective responses. this includes promoting greater to trust a partnership between communities and law enforcement.
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the president's fiscal year 20 something budget request includes increased resources for countering violent extremism programs including an additional $59 million as part of our request under the counters in partnerships fund. these resources would enable us to expand programs in africa to engage communities susceptible to violent extremist recruitment. mr. chairman, there's no sing the solution to defeat terrorist groups and promote stability in africa. the challenges are significant. we believe with committed partners in africa who are making progress. we believe will be most effective in the long run with a comprehensive approach that promotes regional cooperation, the rule of law and good governance. we continue to look for ways to enhance this approach we appreciate the strong support of congress for these efforts. thank you. >> thank you all. let me just start by setting context. if you look at the region that we are discussing today and you look at the numbers of deaths, displacements, the scale of
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what's happened in these three regions and other places throughout africa, really over the course of time is as large as scale of terrorist activities in the middle east, is that correct? >> i would say so. particularly if you look at the case of boko haram, the number of people who have been killed and affected by the boko haram are as large as, if not larger, than the number of people have been killed by isil in the past year. so there is a devastating impact, and it's reflected in the numbers the people killed and impacted by terrorism in africa. >> and no disagreement from the other witnesses? >> no,. >> let me ask you this. there's a tremendous focus on the middle east. we have a lot of hearings, most of us on the other hand, have traveled throughout africa and
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the sahel and seemed a tremendous threat, if you will, to stability. why do you think the world focus is more so on areas like the middle east and less on areas like the region we are talking about right now in africa? >> well, i will offer my thoughts, mr. chairman. i think with the case of isil, they emanate from okay and a rack and so there's been a focus on that particular conflict ongoing. that is of course devastated those societies as well and continues to. that, of course, build off of the historic origins of al-qaeda from the middle east in that region. something from a terrorist perspective the focus generally has been on the region and the core area where these groups have emanated from, but it does
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not, as the assistant secretary thomas greenfield just noted, when you look at actual violence, the groups in africa are committing extreme amounts of violence the boko haram in particular is a group that has targeted civilians deliberately. and their deaths on an annual basis we were reported in the annual country reports on terrorism, boko haram is consistent in the top ranks of terrorist groups in terms of committing violence and destabilizing entire regions. the challenge of the threats are as great in the african continent i would agree to focus generally speaking tends to remain on the middle east. >> but for what reason? >> well, i mean, i think, you know, for isil, it is appropriate to focus on the core area with a group is emanated from, and that is the main effort in particular against isil, against its presence in iraq and see rita.
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and in many ways when we look at the spread of isil, preventing that and defeating the group in its core homeland your and so, therefore, the focus in that regard on the core area is appropriate. >> any other comments? >> i would just as much of the terrorism that we saw in the past on the continent of africa tended to be focus on africa. so that was not the comparable threat to the homeland from terrorists in africa as we see in the middle east. but i think we've all come to the conclusion that terrorism anywhere affects us everywhere. and we have to address it not just in the middle east but in africa as well. >> so the core, central begin his come if you will come of this threat emanated from the middle east.
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you know, hitting areas are especially their establishing a caliphate has been aboard. and then secondly the groups in africa have not been seen as a threat to western entities. would that be a fair assessment of the focus? >> i would say initially, but i think we are seeing more and more that this does have an impact on us when we look at the attacks in bali -- mali. americans were victims. >> i would just add that these groups evolves out of the particular context in africa but have been co-opted or joined up with transnational terrorist groups. so al-shabaab which begin at of the islamic group and somalia laid a fully with al-qaeda and, of course, was part of al-qaeda's global agenda, and has been a significant concern of the u.s. security community because of the foreign fighter
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element that had traveled to somalia, including american citizens. so that's been a focus, and the concern is that al-shabaab, represent an al-qaeda affiliate, is also advance the potential al-qaeda agenda. similarly with boko haram there's been an affiliation with islamic state so that gives us great concern to look at the group to give an whether or not they will, because of that affiliation, begin to change their focus towards more targeting of international interest, western interests or even externally. >> i'm going to save the next of my time for interjections. ranking member cardin? >> thank you. i thank all three of our panelists for their incredible work in a very challenging assignment. as i said in the opening statement, the chairman's opening statement, there is no simple solution to the violence that's taken place, that terrorism has taken place, and clearly we need a security response, including direct
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support against terrorism. i strongly support that. but as you each pointed out, the recruitment of terrorists is because there is a void. the are individuals who feel that they have no other choice and that they are primed for recruitment. my concern is only giving countries a free pass who are our partners in our counterterrorism campaigns on human rights and poor governan governance? i say that and they give you many examples. in ethiopic they just had a parliamentary election are not a single opposition leader or the person was elected. we have seen security forces there who have killed hundreds of protesters. in chad we have dozens of military officers who have been arrested because they would not vote for the pressure. in somalia we have report in
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yesterday's "washington post" where they're using children for spies. we've had killings by the military in nigeria and kenya. and yet i don't see a response by the america, u.s. come in regards to these activities. am i wrong? should we be giving them a free pass? >> thank you for that question, senator. in every single one of the cases you mentioned, we condemn human rights abuses. we regularly condemn those abuses by security forces and by government. and we make it clear to discover that this is a core value for the united states. at the same time we are committed to firmly working with our partners to address efforts to defeat terrorism. we can't draw a line into were not going to work with you on
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terrorism because of human rights violations, but we reinforce with these governments on a regular basis that they must respect human rights and civil liberties and -- >> how do you reinforce that they must? >> we start with a diplomatic discussion. so in the case of ethiopia we had intense discussions with the government over the past year. and you may not as result of those discussions we're having a human rights dialogue being led our assistant secretary for human rights with the ethiopians. it's the challenge. we don't always get our messages through to them, but they are hearing that these are concerned. and in many cases they are upset that we are expressing concerns about human rights. >> could you share with me and this committee that specific
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methods you used to transmit your concerns along human rights violations and the lack of democratic progress? i would be interested. i.c.e. the strong voice of the united states on counterterrorism issues, which i expect to see them continue to see. i've not seen the same degree of effort and energy in regards to concerns on the poor governance and violation of human rights. >> first of all we start with our embassies. with our ambassadors engaging with governments and -- >> that's quite am usually stick sometimes it's quiet and sometimes our ambassadors don't get me just because they are not quiet. they are very, very public in their expression of concerns. it also occurs through meetings that i have on a regular basis with heads of state. it's at the top of the agenda.
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they push back. they said we don't respect them as partners because we are raising human rights concerns. we don't understand the situation in their countries, and my response has always been, please understand, this is a core value for us. we also work with their militaries in terms of providing human rights training. we fund goes directly. we do betting on a number of countries. in fact, all countries that we are involved in doing any military training with eric and there's been some countries where we've had to make the hard decision not to work with the military and the security services because they have committed human -- >> fy '13-15 the budgets for africa have gone up from half a billion, to believe that democracy and governance has fallen during that period of time. i would think that democracy and governance is a clear indication
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of our commitment on good governance and human rights. there is certainly a shortage of funds. there's no question about that. i would like to see a larger pie for our global efforts in all these areas. as i understand it, a large amount of the decisions as to how those funds are allocated are based upon who is the most effective in abdicating for need. have we been ineffective in abdicating for democracy and governance? >> i would like to say no, because it is at the top of my agenda. >> why has there been decline in those funds speak with i'm not an appropriate. if i were i would be giving the money to -- >> soft allegations by congress to allow this is complicitous operation between the people at the state department and appropriators. >> from the africa bureau's standpoint, senator congress eking to the choir.
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i don't have -- senator, you are speaking to the corporate i think usaid will agree with me on that. you could use more resources in that area. we know that putting money toward democracy and governance, putting money toward the elections, putting money toward building the capacity of civil societies contributes to making countries more stable and respect for human rights. and we make strong cases from our standpoint to support for democracy funding so that we have the funding to implement our program. >> i would just urge you to do this in a way that is visible to those of us who support your efforts. because quite frankly we don't see that. we are sending our own messages as loudly as we can't including at this hearing that we want to see greater funds for democracy and governance. but if we don't get the feedback from what is happening in the
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missions and department and makes our job much were difficult. it looks like that countries are getting a free pass, as long as they are on our coalition team, what they do within their own country is of little importance to our foreign policy mission, which you are telling is just the opposite. so showing that, not just by quiet diplomat contact, but by how we are making that point would certainly i think help us in accomplishing our mutual desire. >> good, thank you. >> senator isakson. >> thank you, mr. chairman. can anybody tell me what happened in joseph kony? >> he is still out of there. there has been a very strong and proactive effort against the lr a. we've been working with the au and with ugandans and other partners, and we were able to get his number two who is now
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currently in the hague being tried. but kony has been elusive but our efforts continue very robustly to get him. the job is not over until that is done. >> one time we committed 100 special troops and forces to see a are ugly to go after kony. by the still deployed? >> i think they are. i did meet with the team when i was in uganda the last time and they are still working there. >> although not recognized as institutional terrorist there's probably no worst terrorist in terms of women and children i'm glad we're still committed to bring justice as hard as that appears to be. talk about the african union. does the african union address the issue of terrorism on the continent? did have a game plan to deal with terrorism? >> we are working closely with the african union on terrorism, on the continent. it is high on their agenda. in the case of nigeria, they have been very much a part of
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the creation of a multinational joint task force in chat and we provided them some fund and some assistance. in their efforts. it is the mission in somalia is an au mission and it is the largest au mission on the continent of africa with troop contributing countries from the region. so it is high on their agenda. we are partnering with them along with our european colleagues to make sure that they have the capacity and the funding to address what has been a very challenging and difficult threat for them as well as those on the continent. >> i know we use human rights issues and labor issues in the approval and participation of ago with -- i was in the au three years ago when we chastised swaziland for their lack of humanity to their laborers and use as a predicate
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for them staying in the african agree that the contest of the. i were leveraging our trade power and economics as much as we should in africa, particularly after going after terrorism? >> we are. swaziland is still not a part of agoa. we regularly send letters of warning to countries if they are not on the right side of human rights and caring for the people there and agoa is very important to them. it's huge leverage and in many cases it has worked to get governments to turn policies around. and if they'v they're not, we'vd them out of agoa. >> i know we do on labor issues and human rights issues. do we do it on then the fighting terrorism as a? >> we do, but we do understand that they have a challenge. they have the capacity challenge but are also all the other challenges that mentioned and senator cardin mentioned in his statement, lack of governance,
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corruption that have limited the capacity of government to fight terrorism. but i think they all have come to understand that they don't fight terrorism. they're not going to be around to do anything else. they have come to that very strong realization that have to partner with their neighbors as well as with the international community to ensure that terrorists don't take over the countries. >> china invests a lot of money for its own benefit in africa. it extracts a lot of minerals and build roads and highways. do we ever engage with the chinese on the issue of terrorism on the continent of africa to try to get them to in some help us or help the continent? >> wiki. i was in china about four weeks ago for our annual consultation with the chinese. now is on our agenda. usaid was the result is well on
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consultations to look at how we can better coordinate with the chinese on what they do in africa are both economically as well as politically. >> might experience as the terrorism forces when there's a presence of no education, poverty and disease and a lack of hope. africa probably is the poster child for those qualifications. the more we can do like the electrify africa and waterville we've done and food security bill, the more we can uplift the african people, the better fight we can have against terrorism. would that be a fair assessment? >> i will turn to my colleague at usaid but i agree with you. >> i will agree but i've also say that we have the data that shows this isn't the case. we see that we are, 10 years of research over all these countries has shown very clear evidence that when we see governments actually able to
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deliver services such as energy, access to electricity, health care, education services, there is a corresponding decrease in amount of feelings of marginalization, feelings of inclusion, and we've also seen that this country are usually not the same ones that are core lead with conflict and instability. it's been clear there's also a clear correlation between where there's the absence of delivery services and more people to feel marginalized and if they don't have opportunities, that those countries are at risk of conflict. it's very glaring. the links between violent extremism, that's the next step that already when you're engaged in conflict then your sympathy to going to next level is not as far as a stretch. so we know that these are things that actually matter. window these elements is ever important tool in this space. >> just based on my observation it appears where we made complex and we've helped build infrastructure in these
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countries there's been less of a presence of terrorism than it is in those countries where we did and i think that's a good thing for us to continue to invest the money. i'm a big supporter of our engagement on the. thank you very much for your service to all of you. >> thank you. i have about a minute and a resort i will just ask a quick question. all of us i think are really proud of the work we've done together on an electrify africa, on food aid reform, on clean water. and we've of efforts that are underway. really proud of that work. i appreciate you mentioning the benefit that is to people, mass numbers of people, millions of people. on the other hand, to bring up a topic that a think senator cardin alluded to and you just did a minute ago, ms. thomas-greenfield, when we work with governments that we know are abusing their own citizens, they are corrupt. they are absolutely subjecting
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their citizens to terrible atrocities themselves, those governments. when we work with them to counter terrorism, how does that work against u.s. interests relative to causing many extremists to really harbor ill will toward the u.s. itself? bison as a social with the conference that they believe are corrupt and not treating their citizens appropriately? >> i think we have to work with government to fight terrorism not we also have to continue to work with these governments to address human rights deficiencies in the countries. and i think that the people of those countries want us to continue to engage. they want our voices to be heard. they know that when we are engaging with these governments that we are also raising concerns about human rights, and we've gotten some people
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released from jail. and we've gotten some governments to moderate their actions against their citizens. it's not a perfect solution but i truly believe that we are, our engagements with and help on issues of human rights. our engagement -- i will give the example of burgundy where we believe that the military in burundi has been less active and violent against citizens because of our engagement with them, it is of the human rights training that they got from our people working closely with them. the government has been a problem, but we have seen that that military has been less of a problem than most people expected. >> briefly. >> just to add, in addition to what was noted earlier that all of our civilian delivery
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assistance is subject to the requirements for vetting under the leahy law, we work with governments to strengthen the rule of law framework under which they would carry out an effective counterterrorism policy. so we reject the notion that there's a conflict, inherent conflict and effective counters and practice and protection of human rights and civil rights of the people. we have worked to embody that concept in what is to house a memorandum which is a document that the trade gap but helps to develop through the global counterterrorism for them. this forms the basis of assistance that we delivered increasingly across the continent in cooperation with the department of justice and prosecutors that we funded to work with government to establish strong ct legislation but also protects the human rights of the people. this is a major challenge in
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africa and i would say that on the one hand you have partners who are willing and capable that need a lot more of assistance to become fully capable to fight terrorism challenges. but they have weak governments and weak governance structures and that's where to strengthen the structures so as they conduct military led, security let operations to detain terrorists entered the terrorist attacks, they do so any framework that enables for those people to be prosecutors and detain effective in accordance with international human rights standards. it's a long-term effort that we are very much engaged in that work currently. >> thank you. senator markey. >> thank you, mr. chairman, very much. i'm going to follow up. while nigeria's people most need help with the daunting governance and corruption
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issues, the united states is planning to sell the government attack aircraft known as the a 29 super takano, to nigeria. and it would be to fight boko haram, a group everyone opposes but the nigerian military has a long-standing history of human rights abuses including under the current administration. just last month amnesty international accused the nigerian army of killing hundreds of members of the shia minority sect in the semper. and, unfortunately, that's happening in other countries in east africa as well. so what is your perspective on that number given the fact that the people of nigeria increasing our sink usaid move from humanitarian or anticorruption efforts over to more military aid for those who they believe internally are the ones who are greater risk to the security of their families?
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>> our aid is not moving away from corruption. the new president of nigeria has made clear that corruption is what of his highest priorities. he named three priorities when he came into power. that was the with boko haram, dealing with corruption, dealing with the economy. and we are working very, very closely with this government. in fact, the secretary is in london at a meeting hosted by the uk on corruption. and the president is there. on the issue assessing the nigerians in fighting boko haram, they have huge capacity issues. as you may know last year we turned them down on a request for cobra's because we were concerned about their ability to use those and not have them come have an impact on their communities. >> let me ask the question another way. if there is no success in convincing the people of nigeria
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that their government is not corrupt, that the government is not fair. will any of his military aid ultimately create the conditions for a successful effort to defeat a boko haram from the inside of the country? will we ever be successful? >> we have to be and -- >> i know we have to be. >> it has to be multifaceted. we have to do the security but we absolutely have to do the capacity building, the development assistance, the good governance. we have to be both. we can't be one or the other, or we will fail. and it will be long-term. but i have to say the nigerian people want us there to assist them on the security side as well. because they know that the government doesn't have the capacity alone. they want us there on both of those areas. >> internally how do you think it will affect the views of the people inside of nigeria as we increase military aid to the
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very people who they fear are using it to harm them, harm the shia inside the country, for example, the government forces themselves? how do you think that would affect how they perceive how the united states is playing inside nigeria, and what could be the consequences of that if that person is? >> the polls show we're extremely popular in nigeria, and the nigerian people are victims of boko haram. and they know that there has to be some kind of security and military solution to addressing boko haram. and they want us there to help the military, every think they think if we're there to help, their military would be less abusive to the people. and that is a point we have made to the nigerians. we are training two battalions of nigerian soldiers right now. they had human rights training as part of that training, and all of them have been leahy
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fated to ensure. so we are working with the government to moderate and stop human rights abuses by the military, but on this secure decide i think the nigerian people who are victims of boko haram also want to see us help the military address the secret is that facing. >> i just think we are on a thin edge you just have to be very careful, especially if the government does not control adequately its own military internally, the harm that it does, to the overall morale inside the country, makes it much more difficult to openly combat boko haram so i think it's important for us to keep an eye on that. in congo very significant political tension because the president is trying to prolong his stay in power beyond the constitutional two-term limit. his ticket agents are harassing opposition, politicians in a
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very serious way. mass protests of his apparent attempt remain in office appears imminent. so what is ultimately the likelihood that such protests could spark further instability in drc, particularly if the security forces continued to crack down in response to these democratic instincts that people have asked has been the case? in the past i sent a letter to secretary care in february suggesting the u.s. should communicate to president kabila to publicly state his intention, to step aside at the end of his second term in december. ..
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and kabila has not demonstrated an interest in preserving his democratic legacy. as i arrived for sanctions to be proposed on the government. >> thank you for that question. we are looking actively at sanctions they have conveyed that to kabila and his people. the secretary met with him a few weeks ago in new york, special envoy has been proactively engaged in the region for the past few months. we are hopeful we can get the government of congo and president kabila to do the right
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thing, his term ends in december, they must have an election. we are working very closely with other partners like the e.u. french and others to make sure we are on the same issue. >> the election is scheduled, we make it very clear that we accept that. >> thank you, mister chairman and all of you for being here today and your ongoing work. can you talk about the importance of women empowerment contributing to development in africa and what we are doing, what you would identify as the
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best example of successful programs? >> i love that question. increasingly, especially in talking about conflict of instability. and us government policy, in the security strategy. women are critical agents not only as victims, change when we are talking about infidelity and violent extremism. our programming runs the gamut depending on what the situation or scenario is in areas where they are vulnerable communities or where we see they don't have a lot of access to legal recourse, economic opportunities and they often are coerced for use as instruments of terror or violence or suffer from gender-based violence, we seek
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to figure out ways of empowering communities by allowing them training, work through economic empowerment, access to education which is another critical element we are seeing, and growth of access to education we see marriage rates have fallen and their accessibility to feeling acceptance with violent extremist groups decreases. we think it is important to target women and girls in these environments because we have seen not only are they able to make a critical difference in their own lives but also critical agents of change in the rest of their communities. >> i don't know whether you want to address this. can you also talk about efforts
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to recruit, and and it is an increasing effort to use women as suicide bombers, and to see who is easier to recruit. >> for most of the groups the emphasis is on recruiting young men. they have used girls in suicide bombing operations which is despicable, coerced into that activity. i would build on something just noted about the role of women identifying seeds of radicalization. women play a critical role in most communities being close to the people in understanding
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whether or not their influence is coming into the community that could lead to radicalization and recruitment to terrorist groups. this is one of the areas we would like to develop in our programming, we have a program that has been underway in nigeria through us institute of peace. influential women, and to train those women and understand areas of radicalization, it will be very important as we get to the community level and address drivers to radicalization and violence. >> one thing we heard about the success of isil has been their ability to recruit people to a caliphate. the idea of a caliphate is very important. are we seeing the same interest in africa in terms of the
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messageing to try to recruit? >> the numbers coming out of africa that we are aware of in terms of foreign terrorist fighters doesn't actually inspire to travel or attempt to travel to syria and iraq, much lower than other parts of the world whether it be north africa, even european states, to southeast asia, numbers are higher, but that said there is evidence of some african recruitment among africans into isil. isil propaganda is very shrewd in identifying using recruits who come from particular regions and appealing to those individuals to join -- come to iraq and syria. isil has been attempting to infiltrate into areas particularly somalia, and between now shabaab and elements thought to adhere to affiliate
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with isil, they haven't had the success there but it does identify this as an ongoing concern we have to watch closely. >> as the cost of getting to syria to iraq part of the challenge with recruitment or is it the messaging that is the issue? >> there are a lot of factors, that would be one. one of the things that has made this conflict in iraq and syria such a threat to wallace is the relative accessibility of the conflict of people in europe, and people in sub-saharan africa to make those connections so it is more difficult logistically to do that. >> they are in sub-saharan
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africa. and terrorism and instability are dropping migration. and to what extent is climate change playing a role in the migrations in sub-saharan africa. >> not surprising are there huge areas we are seeing the largest number of refugee movements right now and internally displaced persons as well but they are not necessarily borders, and people getting across to yemen which is not secure at all, and a lot of that is because and we have seen time
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after time, they move across borders, it is no opportunity to exist on their own, and when insecurity is paramount such as the democratic republic of congo with large refugee movements, what often causes people to move across borders and move further is when markets turn down and there is no ability to make a living so dynamic population in these countries, in a sad way are used to coping and dealing with instaty instability in ver creative ways and time pressures of instability as the lack of opportunity are pushing them to move forward. >> climate change is a big contributor. >> climate change is a big contributor. we have seen the el niño effect,
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it is a big factor, in 2011. it was partially called by drought or else shabaab, the big reason, they cross borders, and the largest migration put pressure on neighboring countries like kenya and south sudan and ethiopia and those pressures are increasing local tensions, and to have accessible land to move to urban centers and with lack of opportunities, we are seeing increased radicalization as well. >> thank you very much. this is the secretary greenfield question.
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would you describe book ahram as an anti-christian terror group. and this is a war against christians, and the losses they should finish them and when we get them. >> there are more than that, that is part of their ideology, but they have killed more muslims in the north. then they have killed christians. they are a terrorist organization and they have no boundaries. >> would you support designating nigeria as a country of continual concern for religious freedom? >> i would not designate nigeria as a country because we have huge huge and active christian populations in nigeria throughout parts of nigeria into the middlebelt but northern nigeria.
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every -- when these communities work together harmoniously. and brought them into justice. >> usaid, what programs exist to assist victims of boca herat and psychological problems for women's and girls, >> we had other programs, and the victims when we have seen when people leave their or been victims of boca her rom return to their communities they suffer from a second wave of victimization --
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>> like stigma? >> it has been heartbreaking actually. we are working to educate communities as to what it means, when people suffer, what they go through and been productive members of communities and society. we offer psychosocial support and care. a number of girls we did manage to return home received that type of care, and we are also working with community religious leaders, can be amplified through various channels that there is recovery that is possible, where possible we are restarting basic social services such as education, putting more money into education in the
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north and we could increase access and providing assistance to those who are internally displaced or humanitarian assistance to healthcare. >> with all the instability in sub-saharan africa, how does it affect your ability to implement programs, have there been any programs that were suspended due to security concerns? >> throughout sub-saharan africa working on stable environments we work on programs that exercise flexibility. we have multiple times suspended and restarted programs, the model of working in these climates, long-standing long-term networks with these communities when it prevents us from a period of time, and staff
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are from the region to speak local languages, and and the flexibility of the programs, and where there is a lot of highly disruptive, but of sexual violence in the middle of that program that we are offering, security concerns require us to eliminate people from that setting and suspended restart, is this a commonplace problem because of the security environment? >> not that the program won't stop entirely, what we try to do is have a combination of working through local implementing partners and a lot of times we
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managed to train the trainer. and we try to layer on, creative ways of making sure, and in extreme cases where we have 2, these are hugely disruptive, and in sub-saharan africa populations -- >> fighting theory with isil, can you shed light on that with open source reports. >> i have not seen that. it periodically appears in
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videos, one of the things we noted is after the affiliation of -- whether there was any difference in the quality of their media output and we have seen a little bit of that but i have not heard -- i don't know if there is any reporting of what is in syria. >> are there any countries you are particularly concerned about when it comes to recruiting fighters and how significantly do you assess the threat of more and more fighters for east africa to be? >> we are concerned about isil or islamic states to infiltrate and affiliate with existing insurgencies or terrorist organizations. they have been attempting to move into somalia, our shabaab
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recognized the threat to hold off isil but that raises the possibility they will look at other communities in the region to include kenya. these are things we are very concerned with and we know isil will want to continue to build its network of affiliates. we have to remain attuned to that. libya is a major isil affiliate and there is always a threat that concessions might be made throughout the region. and as noted a minute ago. compared to numbers of foreign fighters from europe, from north africa, the caucuses, southeast asia in comparative terms. >> senator mccain.
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>> thanks to the witnesses for being here today. you opened with a provocative question which is, given the statistics, why is there less focused generally in the media, the public sphere of these challenges and elsewhere. and to prepare some material for the hearing, a number of vitality's that have been experienced in africa, and i want to introduce it for the record. >> it bears out your point exactly. one of the reasons i admire my colleagues on the committee there are many on this committee who spend a lot of time in africa and non-community members to spend a lot of time on. i don't have to be diplomatic,
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we have to look at the mirror, but if we look backward on our own history, things get explained in retrospect, we put japanese americans in internment camps but not german-americans. would explain the difference? german-americans are more european like -- like europeans and japanese americans. there is a school of thought that explains the differential action of the united states in the 90s in terms of intervening dramatically to stop genocide in the balkans but not intervening dramatically to stop the genocide of rwanda, why didn't we intervene in one but not the other? the answer is not too pleasant. part of the reason they have a hearing like this and part of the reason i apply my colleagues
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who spend a lot of time in africa, as leaders we challenged in some ways the media portrayal too, terrorist attacks in mali, nigeria and chad, that the attacks in brussels -- even those in istanbul & i don't get as much attention so all of these are important but having a hearing like this puts it on an equal scale and not ask just -- suggest some lives are worth less than others. in the middle east we needed something, we needed oil and that has made us more focused on the middle east and we haven't focused as much on africa because we haven't perceived we needed something as much. this is a good reason to have a hearing like this. our foreign policy as a nation, has east/west axis, and if you
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look at the diplomatic effort that focuses south of the equator and americas it is less. that is something good about a hearing like this. i wanted to ask a question. i will make you do homework for me because we are writing the defense authorizing bill and we will grapple with some issues dealing with africa -- africana -- more than any of the others it integrates cross disciplinary military usaid to deal with challenges in africa and as folks who are not part of the dod, talk to me about your perceptions of africom, not
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having a specific africom. talk about the efficacy following up on senator marky's questions, the training and exercises we do with african military. many of our us ambassadors asked that we devote marine units into africa for human trafficking, and how do we deal with african security forces. >> we have a military, it has over the years is more understanding of africa. they become a great partner for us. we very much appreciate the
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partnership with africom and the military. as a member of the authorizer's for armed services, a key area where do we do have concerns. and and crossing lines, and and we have better skill sets to carry out those responsibilities particularly in the area of community development, areas of working on some of those
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authorizations, and at any time when we were working with centcom, we have areas of disagreement and we have been able to establish channels of communication between general rodriguez and myself and address these issues, we had some positive impact on the region. and all of the training they do with african militaries they have human rights training modules in every single one of those efforts we have made and pay dividends for us, we have been able to use the relationship the military developed with military counterparts to get messages
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through to those militaries, we look closely at what we are providing and as i mentioned to senator marky, we did not think those, and we said no, and we think it was a better piece of equipment, we can train them on how to use this equipment specifically and not have a negative impact on communities and civilians, and the negative impact. >> senator marky is the ranking
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member, and successful on state department authorization, but go ahead. >> thank you for convening this hearing and along with senator marky and senator isaacson, we worked over many years together, two opening statistics, you reminded all of us that there are positive events negatives in the security situation in africa. i host an annual opportunity africa conference to try to emphasize positives, africa is a complex continent of 54 countries, the fastest-growing in the world, 7 of 10 of the fastest-growing economies in the world in this decade or africa, eight of ten of the largest united nations peacekeeping operations, one of the challenges is focused on the difficulties of developing a sustained strategic framework for engaging with extremism and
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violence on the continent while recognizing the significant growth opportunities, positive opportunities to reinforce and work together, in the outset want to thank the countless dedicated foreign service officers in the state department and usaid who works hard to promote interests in florida as well as those in dod and law enforcement who do a lot of training and outreach, and senator cardin took time to meet with a certain number of fsos and as hard as they work for the determination. and often remote things. what lessons have we learned from fighting terrorism in africa? broadly speaking, three case
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studies, a focus on mali, the lake chad region and nigeria and the horn, want to focus on somalia and we have very different levels of us engagement and expenditure and the significant stability challenges presented by somalia which is a completely failed state, the military presence where we played a significant role, they made substantial success pushing back our shabaab, we are expending less money and boca haram was the deadliest terrorist organization in the world and it should get and deserves higher attention and higher priority, senator kane suggested for reasons that are really unappealing. less oil from the continent of africa than the middle east, if it was about resource prioritization we long ago would have put africa on the top of our list and i am concerned we are allowing others to become dominant players in africa and
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we are lagging. we predominantly -- the hard work to the un and the french, these are different responses but in all three there are no significant us troop deployments. and in somalia and nigeria. in iraq, and the security concerns and what role, where it plays, and the strategic framework for making progress. >> you asked what lessons and
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this is multifaceted. we have to bring in the civilian agencies, and build the capacity of local organizations, local security services, and we have to build their capacity to own it and be supportive of them. we have to partner, in the case of molly, we have been extraordinarily proactive. we are not in the league, we have been involved in negotiations, military has been extraordinarily supportive of the french effort, so many problems across the continent, and in that case, and in the french government to make sure
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we have impact on the situation, finally, this has been said in the room by everyone we have to be concerned about human rights. we have to ensure these governments understand human rights are important for us and as i said before the core value, they expect to hear from us on human rights issues. if we don't raise human rights, every one of them would be in shock. we start out in that area with all these governments. >> if i might interrupt before we continue we have an exchange earlier about the prioritization of democracy and government funding where ranking member cardin appropriately said we are both appropriators, and heard that loud and clear and it is an issue i have pressed in recent appropriation hearings, we are
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underfunding democracy in governance and appreciate you raising that and we made this a priority in my appropriations request because we send the wrong message and appreciate raising concerns, they are shrinking space for elections. if we don't fund our values and our values are around democracy and space for opposition parties and journalists, they draw conclusions. >> i know very quickly what else it is, core lessons learned, partnership partnership partnership whether it is through other donors or partners but also bringing in the private sector. as you mentioned before africa is also a continent of opportunities and we have a diverse set of partners interested in stabilization. they can be the drivers that help us to fuel and fund economic opportunities we are talking about for young people who are making the case for why inclusion policies are important and making sure they are working
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with us to make sure the international norm is seen as something that is not only an imposition from western government, a standard to which everybody should aspire to. we have a lot of opportunities through partnering with government, private sector, but also local communities, making sure we are touching people in the ground where they live and not just working with institutions and capital. >> senator isaacson raised pointedly with the mcc i was pleased tanzania because of electoral irregularities and failure to effectively address the corruption suffered an unwelcome setback for them and the world economic forum, a great opportunity to continue engagement and the administration is sending an ambassador among many others if you might have the time for that.
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>> i think in general the lessons learned in each of these as you deccaed -- and willing to address the challenges in the region. and addressed, each of those examples, the coordinating hasn't been easy, takes constant diplomatic effort to coordinate and keep the momentum in each of these areas but the solution you would want in somalia is a solution that developed in terms of contributing countries to amazon, e.u. admission, the region addressing its own problems and of course the bigger challenge is governments that are generally speaking in
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many cases week and poor and lack capacity and a sustained solution overtime addresses radicalization and root causes require improved governance over the long term efforts here, the buy-in and commitment of the countries themselves to solving the problem is a virtue. >> absolutely. the fighting in terrorism, every bit as urgent and large in the middle east, a key difference is we have allies putting soldiers into the fight, african soldiers are fighting and dying against terrorism in somalia and nigeria and mali and we are providing critical support training funding and resources but unlike others we have significant numbers sending troops into the fight. we should be grateful, i am grateful for your service and the chance to ask questions.
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>> senator murphy. >> thank you, mister chairman. i wanted to follow up on the question senator marky asked regarding interaction of security systems and assistance provided by the state department. in 2014 it was the first time dod funding research assistants in africa suppressed that, it came through a lot of different places, but in particular a rather opaque fund the pentagon runs called building partner capacity which is about $10 billion globally is increasingly the source of dod funds to help promote foreign military sales and stand up military capacity. i wanted to ask you about to what extent the state department and africa bureau is in the decisions made at the department
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of defense to spend building partner capacity dollars, a huge amount of money globally, $10 billion, a lot spent in africa to the extent you are ready in and individual ambassadors have a say as to how that money is spent to make sure it isn't counteracting the work they are doing on the ground and your broader thoughts on this long-term transition away from the majority of money in these countries being state department money to department of defense money. >> we work closely with africom on to activities we are involved in, the annual strategy review meeting where tcms across africa and usaid mission directors are
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invited, and my colleague from usaid is there as well. i look across the board at what they are planning to do, and what they are planning to do in the context of mission programs and silent strategy and work closely with them. ambassadors have veto power on any actions they are taking. any programs they are doing and in general if there is any disagreement, general rodriguez and i were closing out between ourselves so we are very much in sync with them. we wish we had that $10 billion on the continent of africa, doing different things, they have the money so we want to help them channel that money to places where it will make a difference on the continent as we work to fight insecurity and terrorism together but $10
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billion would be a huge contribution to democracy and governance. i describe democracy and governance as scraping the mayonnaise jar to do the job we have to do. >> how much do you have in democracy and governance? >> let me get back to you, that is a moving target. >> i would submit it is well less than what the department of defense is spending in the building partner capacity account which is not broken down on a country by country basis so as members of the 4 relations committee we know there are $10 billion in the department of defense. i am glad you are optimistic as to the coordination that is happening but for members of the appropriations committee probably a topic that should get more attention. let me ask one additional. >> for one second, give you some
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extra time, you are raising a fundamental point, fundamental -- a growing problem as we get to the bill, there is an effort the ambassador pointed out to expand dod's role in traditional state department areas. they are committing this on a broader scale than this. >> there has been a long-term shift of diplomacy from the state department to the defense department, that happens when you are engaged in different places. i guess i am not as optimistic as the witnesses as to the ability to coordinate this work on a country by country basis. >> it is an effort. i have the figures here where actually looking at increasing funding in the president's request increasing support for programs in africa, the request of that sector is 20% above what
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we did in 2015. our figure was 286 $286 million and our figure for our request for $311 million is a drop in the bucket. when you compare that -- >> it is another way by which we communicate our priorities. when we are looking at $300 million on a good day democracy assistance we are handing out potentially 10 times that amount of money in an account that has very little oversight from the united states congress. it tells countries what we think is most important and as part of this balance it is difficult to do when numbers are that skewed in favor of military assistance. to that end, i don't know exactly who to put this question to. in these three conflict zones we are talking about, talk a little
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bit about this mystery which is the attractiveness of a wahhabi oriented sunni ideology in areas that are dominated by sufi muslims and the story has to be partially about schools that are on the ground, funded by some of our allies in the middle east. you go to the middle east to get taught in schools, funded by our allies in the middle east. what is the level of seriousness about countries on the ground in understanding and trying to tackle this problem of radicalization that happens in these wahhabi funded in the middle east? >> it is a real concern on the
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part of many governments in the region and we hear that from those governments which as you deccaed out there are a variety or a number of different vehicles through which this ideology penetrates. this is not something limited to areas of africa, southeast asia, we see it in other places where historically and animist approach or an approach to religion and faith that is tolerant of other traditions and that is worn down, and that causes intolerance and sectarian conflict, it is a problem that relates probably to the spread of media, people have access to media on other parts of the world and media funded through coming out of certain regions propagated are emphasized in a particular view.
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there are a number of different views, there are other countries, when we talk about if you have to look at particular circumstances the community and the village level what are those influences? difficult work in countering violent extremism will be identifying through research, data and understanding of drivers at a local level, a hard issue to address but especially amid what is really a global phenomenon, that particular religious view. >> we can spend money chasing dollars around the world but we are never going to keep up. it is a better strategy to ask about why these dollars are moving into areas like africa out of the middle east, out of the pockets of many of our friends, a better use of our time and money. >> i want to thank our
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panelists. you see a lot of interest in what we had to talk about today. if you could, we will provide after they could respond fairly quickly, take questions on thursday, we thank you for your service to our country. if you could with your crew we would like to shift to another panel. thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] >> okay. okay. thank you.
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thank you. how second panel consists of two witnesses, the first is administrator martya, administrator of the regional bureau for africa, second witness will be mister christopher -- senior administrator and regional director. senior associate and regional director for central and west africa at the national democratic institute. we will recognize him first with opening comments. if you would follow we thank you both for sharing your expertise and knowledge with us today.
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>> i am very honored, the united nations program to be invited before the us independent committee on foreign relations. i have something of a longer text, my remarks quite a bit. my purpose is twofold. i want to briefly update you on what we have learned and second, i would share a view on the diplomatic approach to mitigate instability in what is referred to as the arc of instability.
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and in africa. and what is stated, the continent is doing great for the last 15 years. gdpwise, 5% a year in 2000. violent extremism is among major risks, tunisia, gdp growth from 3% to 1%, chad's gdp contracted 1% in 15 from growth of 5% and in kenya and nigeria, 25% following terrorist acts. we estimate 33,000 people have died on african soil since 2011 as a result of violent extremism and 6 million are internally displaced. over the last two years,
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conducted a series of studies and commissioned research to better understand violent extremism in africa. area studies converge in three major findings, one, the drivers of radicalization, defied he the analysis, to be followed in combination of poverty and human development and economic and political exclusion and marginalization and weak social contract with societal divisions on ethnic or religious lines. the most important realms for radicalization are border areas which are in most of the countries neglected, weak governance and in terms of socioeconomic and institutional
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infrastructure. 3, there are a number of commonalities which drive radicalization, there are important differences between countries, socioeconomic factors tend to be the drivers, lake chad, lake chad basin in somalia in nigeria, political grievances are much more criminal factor in kenya. it is with this analysis in mind that we embarked on an approach which addresses multiple drivers and enablers of radicalization. we have a four your regional initiative on preventing violent extremism in africa which focuses on individual institutions, government, communities and individuals to address related factors.
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we are working in epicenter countries and other countries and at risk countries supporting partners to develop in national policies and strategies, community and faith-based to prevent youth radicalization and de-escalate and promote social cohesion, working with local and national governments to provide basic social services, we support implement creation and work local governments to strengthen the administration and we have learned integrated programs combining response offered the best approaches to combating violent extremism. let me conclude my remarks,
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government potential responding to violent extremism, this will be coordinated in partnership between government and civil groups. >> thank you very much. >> it is correct, mister chairman, distinguished members of the committee, on behalf of of in the eye i appreciate the opportunity to discuss terrorism, instability and make the case for why democracy and good governance should be a central component of strategies in sub-saharan africa. for more than 30 years we worked around the world to establish political and civic organizations, they have
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elections for most citizens and organize accountability in government. the institute conducted programs aimed to work with 54 countries, have been fortunate to qualify those countries for the past two decades. terrorist activity in sub-saharan africa for the past decade, destabilized the continent and rolled back gains and participation through the third wave of what began in the 1990s, groups such as boca haram, in northern mali and now shabaab cause tens of thousands of deaths, tremendous
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deficiency, for civilian population. some of these extremist organizations operating in africa are eager to establish alliances with organizations, notably al qaeda, the islamic state of iraq, and is sick to defeat the military. to assist the effected countries, and rise extremism. and the motivation of sub-saharan africa, and religious beliefs. however, it is noteworthy that impact of this phenomenon created an enabling environment in which extremism thrives.
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when a state collapses as was the case in somalia, allows for spaces as was the case to fulfill the basic purpose of providing citizens with access to a meaningful life, liberty and property in nigeria and social contract between the state is broken. this continent with governance viewed as illegitimate or ineffective is ground for recruitment, disaffected individuals to easily embrace extremism hoping to access a better life, voice and linked to these attributes in
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transitioning environments. moreover, oppressed citizens and marginalized groups denied access to growth and services, and opportunities, are more vulnerable to extremist indoctrination who in return promise to fulfill that need. efforts to counter violent extremism and terrorism in sub-saharan africa must address governance as part of the overall strategy. based on lessons learned my own experience, what i hear loud and clear from leaders and activists alike across the continent, i strongly offer recommendations for your consideration. any counterterrorism study should be grounded in consolidation of democracy and
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good governance, associate military victories can be sustained in medium to long-term. we cannot afford to defeat violent extremism now while taking off 5 or 10 years down the road. autocratic regimes should not get a pass from the international community solely because they are good partners in the fight against terrorism. shirking political space, frequent violations of citizens rights and freedom and undermining of constitutional rules and elections breed discontent and on further ground for recruiters and perpetrators of violence and extremism. violent extremism and terrorism can and should be performance and democratic governance. these two principles are not
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mutually exclusive. they are mutually reinforcing. africans of this generation are jittery and extremely fearful of relieving the experience of the cold war era during which dictatorships thrived amid grave gross human rights abuses because some leaders were allies of the west at the time. the fight against terrorism should not be a substitute for the cold war paradigm of this century in sub-saharan africa. .. during to deprive extremist of possible recruitment grounds and after to sustain the peace that would have been gained
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militarily for the medium to long-term. excessive in broad economic terms make young people as a rule national to -- vulnerable to recruitment incentives. to conclude, enthusiasm of a few years and some remarkable accomplishments is under attack. on the one hand it is challenged by threats from extremist terrorist organizations and on the other hand in some cases by internal threats from regimes that fail to deliver public services and combat corruption and combat freedom. the international community should do everything in its power to help reed the continent of both existential threats.
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friends of africa must make sure that they do not willingness or inadvertently allow themselves to become accomplices. this is a brief summary of my statement and a longer statement will be for the record. >> without objection it'll be inserted and full statements that are being made part of our record, i've had a chance to look through it and it certainly reinforces the concerns that i've had. i want to get a little bit grangular here. both of you mention radicalization and although we have to deal with the immediate issues, if we don't deal with
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the underlining causes, it'll be short-term success. we have incredible tools. undp is an incredibly important part of our international efforts to help develop the prosperity in countries that we hoped would provide the long-term stability necessary and has done incredible service to develop democratic opportunities across the globe and of course the united states and development assistance and security assistance, these are tools that can provide incredible opportunities for stability globally and yet, we point out that in sub-sahara africa we have not been as successful as we need to be. therefore, my question to both of you, what is work that we should build one, i understand, deal with underlying economic issues, but how do you take the
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current programs that are available, through private organizations or government, how do you take those programs and build in the ones that are the most relevant to the stability of sub-sahara africa and what programs need to be reconfigured because they're not providing the returns for the investments that are being made. can you be more specific here? >> thank you, let me first say that when i was listening to the previous panel, what you said was music to my ears and this is the fight that we are doing first in africa in undp, the major is good governance, progovernance and ungoverned spaces are underdevelopment that
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we are seeing. the issue that we are seeing here is that most of these countries have very limited space and hence come up to scale good practice that we are doing. the solution is number one, not only limit ourselves to military solutions but bring military and development, but the good practices that we are having, put them to scale. we as the national community have to understand that the issue is global public bad and this country cannot do it alone and in a spirit of partnership we can scale up the good practices. i'm just coming from kenya where i saw an excellent partnership between the two countries in the region where they are doing initiatives, we haven't discussed a lot in the first panel. is at the border that we see problems.
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if we invest in creating resilience, we could have done great. i think if we have good funding we can scale up those initiatives. the national democratic institute obviously doesn't have the luxury of governmental entities or the department of state or more international organization such as undp but with the resource that is we've always received graciously we have tried to put emphasis in developing society. when you look at the statistics or studies done by organizations , and i reference that in my recent statement, 75% of africans are inspired to live in democratic societies. the demand for democracy and good governance continues to rise on the continent.
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unfortunately the supply is shrinking and so programs that can allow the expansion of political space would bring into the process and allow to advocate for proper management of resource that is are created within this country and so i would put a lot more echción on strengthening civil society, strengthening citizen-based organizations because some of them are very active specially even including in rural areas that have been impacted by the grievances. i understand that north eastern nigeria, for example, are a number of groups that are engaging with internally displaced persons that are engaging with some of the people that are dealing with trauma and some of the impacts of boca ram and operations have received
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funding from organizations and helping building capacity to effective advocates on behalf of citizens. >> i agree with both the point. border issues -- it's a good point and we need to concentrate the more complicated because the problems is go across borders and therefore the country -- not sure what host country is responsible unless you have partnerships between the two countries, it makes it complicated and difficult. i certainly agree with you with civil society. civil society is critical in good governance. let me try to get to a third point that your view on that, and that is the reality or perception that you can get a free pass from the united nations or from the united states if you are working with the international coalition to fight counterterrorism and that
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what you do internal in your country will not really be a major importance to the international participation and support. that to me whether it's real or certify -- perceived is a great deal issue dealing with democratic institution development, just share with me your concern as to whether the leaders of countries that are working with us have the view that the international community will give them a free pass on governance issues as long as they are part of our coalition against violent extremism. >> thank you, senator. for us human rights is the bedrock of whatever we do and it's not negotiable. >> you pull out the country if you don't get cooperation from leaders? >> what we do is support capacity -- >> i understand that. are you willing to pull out of a
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country -- if you say it's a bedrock, if you have a corrupt regime and you're doing good work in that country and at least part of that is to support corrupt regime, are you willing to pull out? >> so what we do is make -- [inaudible] >> commissioner of human rights make the strong declarations, but i think we as a un could be better off to support capacities and support communities and help countries human rights and this is a voice strongly. whatwhatever we do human rights is embedded in our programs. it takes time. it may not happen overnight but embedded in all that we do. >> senator, i would say that it's real and you hear as you travel across the continent even with partner organizations
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within civil society that when you go through the list of countries that have become poor performance, some that were initially on positive trajectory but have been backsliding, those countries coincidental are partners of organization, it's a perception that in the minds of the declarations and all of the work to support civil society in the past, the example that you raised earlier. it's obvious that it's been backsliding on the democratic front. it's still viewed as a good ally. what many civic leaders is the question of whether this regimes are getting a pass solely because of cooperation on that front whereas on the takings are really mui -- much
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mutually reinforcing. >> there's no question. otherwise you get short-term gains but long-term you're not going to succeed with the type of stability that will provide not only an opportunity for its citizens but eliminate the gap that is used for recruitment of extremism, you have to do both. i'm afraid that we have focused on the counterterrorism from a military point of view with partners at times to the exclusion of dealing with the development of good governance in a country and it seems like this hearing is only put a spotlight on that, so hopefully we can figure out. and just in response to the un, you have to be prepared to walk away if you don't have a partner that is providing a fair opportunity to the people of their country and it's sometimes difficult because you know that there are needs out there that
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you have to deal with, but if it's not getting through and if it's supporting corruption, then the better alternative to look for a new opportunity rather than continuing to existing partnership. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. now what is unlikely to ever occurred, right? [laughter] >> you want me to answer that? >> i think you answered with your laugh. >> optimum way of doing is to go to communities and invest to the communities. rebuilding the social contract, empowering communities for them to also to fight for human rights. >> just to underscore the point, we always look for a way to provide humanitarian help, we always look for a way to deal
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with human crisis that exists but if the host country believes that they're always going to have a partner regardless of own activities, you lose the ability to change the underlining problems within that country. >> and we talked -- the first panel was here and we went through the same line of discussion, there's no question, is there, that the fact that citizens understand that we are going to hang because the terrorism issue is acute, the other issues are longer term, they know that we are going to hand in there with them on the counterterrorism piece, there's no question as they see malficeance that that creates ill towards the united states, is there? >> obviously it creates a lot of doubts in the minds of the people and we are also dealing with a segment of the population
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that's all going to increase, it's the young people, activists, the journalists and we know that africa is a young continent, the bulk of the population is in this category of people who are aspired to be governed differently, who aspire to democracy who love and respect the united states for these values, and they're the ones being put in the position when government is not antiterrorism legislation that's then use to strength political space and silent voices. and so we end up not creating friends with the segment of the population that is the continent of the future. >> and that's first, by the way, a magnet for folks to be attracted more so to terrorism, right, so it just feeds on each other. let's just step back. we all understand this presidential race underway and we understand, those of us here
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understand that we spend 1% of u.s.% -- u.s. in foreign aid. i don't think that it's possible for that not to occur. and so, you know, people listening to this testimony today, listening to the fact that we are on one hand dealing with corrupt dealers that are not treating populations properly, sending them money that in many ways keep them in power and if they partner with counterterrorism, even more so, on the other hand, we have people that -- we have terrorism, we have people that are being treated unfairly and we actually have one of our committee members that constantly is focused on this issue. so just stepping back and as we debate our nation's fiscal issues and our nation's interest, which i think maybe more so in this presidential
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year may be discussed than times in the past, if you would, both of you advocate to me why you believe that our continued involvements in countries like the ones we are discussing is an important thing for the united states to be doing? >> well, simply put -- as i said earlier, although terrorism could be generated by progovernance in a country, it is a global public good, a global public bad. it belongs to all national community. that's why it beholds us as international community to fight them wherever they are. i'm not saying to give us free pass, but you have to fight it and fight also the good causes. that's why foreign aid is still critical, important in this fight.
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>> mr. chairman, i agree with what my copanellist just said and simply add that in many of these countries american interest has stake, we may remember the initial bombings of embassy in kenya and tenzania where americans died in that process. terrorist threats to americans whether they're on the homeland or trying to operate overseas because the ultimate goal is probably larger targets than villages that get destroyed in a number of african countries. i think it's important to send the message that is teaching time is -- [inaudible] >> we are all threatened by this phenomenon.
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>> but i think that the challenge, you know, i think some of the debate around let's go to the middle east, isis and, you know, people act as if we're, you know, do away with isis in the next year or two are missing the fact that the root causes are -- are a long-term -- a long, long-term issue. same is true in africa. the root causes there are a long-term issue. as americans look at the resources that we have and the needs within our own country, sometimes the simple thought that we can deal with terrorism like that and maybe the lack of understanding that the root causes within africa, within the middle east that are going to mean that if this group is gone, another group is going to be coming right behind it unless we are dealing with both sides of the equation, i think people in
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many cases miss that point because of the dialogue that's taking place. would y'all agree or disagree with that in. >> absolutely, mr. chairman. it's not instant coffee dealing with this root causes of terrorism. it has started years ago, it will take some years -- some more years and as we said earlier, it's the toxic combination of progovernance, low development that has created this. this will take time to deal with. it's a long-time investment, and again f -- if we combine and scale with good security, i think we will win over time but it will take time. it's not a instant-coffee battle in my view. >> i agree with you,
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mr. chairman, and i think that the message can also be conveyed that first you have to stop the bleeding and then you can use democracy and good governance to build up. the example that i've used in the past with regards to sahara, for example, is the difference that democracy and good governance made in the situation of two countries that were both bordering countries to libya but that dealt with libya crisis in a different fashion. mali was poorly governed, the government accused of being corrupt, mistreating minorities, causing a lot of grievances. it wasn't able to control its border and there was a lot of elicit activities taking place in northern mali prior to
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attacks that peaked in 2012. on the other hand, niger republic, neighboring country to mali, shares direct border with libya, because the government had better control of its borders, because the control had come up with a policy to integrate into governance process and the government was dealing with decentralization and allowing people to make decisions that impacted their lives directly, niger was better able to deal with the aftereffect of the libyan crisis than mali and till today, niger is not a very wealthy country but it's surviving in a neighborhood that's invested by terrorist to northern border with libya, to north eastern
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border with mali and southern border nigeria. african country that is better able to manage its economic and human capital in the way that gives people confidence that the government can respond to citizen needs and the country is doing well today. >> well, thank you, we are way beyond time. if i could just ask one last question. this is a little bit off topic but we had a really sort of heoring hearing about un keepers and the abuses that are taking place. i would just like to ask in closing, when this is happening, what does that also do relative to populations and their
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feelings about, you know, people who are working with them to keep peace but also how does that fuel, if it does, how does that fuel additional attraction to terrorist groups? >> it's not a wide-scale sentiments but horrible whenever it happens, puts discredit of good work that the soldiers are doing and you have seen the secretary general condemning it strongly. >> he condemns it but it still happens and we see almost no action taking against. condemning doesn't mean anything to me. >> he has condemned it and he has dismissed the head of the mission, he has named the countries where the soldiers. >> who has gone to jail? who has joan to -- gone to jail?
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>> the secretary general has named those countries whose soldiers have done it, it beholds the country to prosecute? >> you understand from our perspective that's like naming the terrorists as bad guys and doing nothing about it? >> the general has nominated lately a special coordinator from the u.s. to coordinate the efforts of the un to address despicable and underlying acts that shouldn't happen. >> prosecutions are what well ended not naming people, not naming countries? >> but, mr. chair, you would know that the un has no space for -- persecuting soldiers and beholds the countries to do
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persecutions once they are named. >> i want to just join with the chairman, i'm not satisfy that had the united nations has done everything it needs to do. i understand you don't have independent ability to do that, and i understand you have to politics of dealing with all of your member states, but with the peace keepers it was very, very late at the game and the action was not adequate and we know that secretary general is very sincere and we know that security council is taking action but we have not seen the type of enforcement that we expect. i think the same is true with the various programs under the united nations, that is the development programs are critically important, but if you're not prepared to break your partnership with a corrupt regime, then i think you are doing a disservice. i understand the humanitarian needs and i understand dealing with particularly ngo types
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where we can do direct humanitarian service, but contracts with governments that are corrupt need to be prepared to walk away if we cannot get the type of progress. we don't expect progress overnight, so if i can, mr. chairman, with your patience, just one quick question, and that is, what would you like to see the united states do in order to respond the perception that we give free passes to coalition partners in regards to their human rights' violations? is there something specific that you would like to see us do? >> senator, i think you touched on some of the issues in the first panel. i think speaking out more publicly against some of these vollations but also taking actions that can assure or reassure the vast majority of africans in this countries that when the united states says that
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democracy is one of its core pillars of policy that it really means it so that there isn't the sense of leaders acting with impunity even at the highest levels because it undermines everything else. i would also mention in terms of additional resources for democracy and good government programs and also a sense that this program to be effective because you're talking about changing attitudes and impacting, dealing with people who acted one way for decades and who now need to act differently. a sustained level of support is more likely to pay dividends than interventions because you need time to create interventions of trust and people to trust that your
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assistance is nonpartisan and means well in terms of raising the well-being of citizens and putting in place systems and processes that can endure beyond one government or one leader and that requires time and sustained resources. i think that will go a long way. fortunately for the three decades that ndi or the republican institute and other organizations have been doing this line of work, established relationships of this country that could have huge impact if resources are available. >> no, thank you. i know that you were speaking up regarding the un. it's not your area of expertise nor purview, i appreciate it. i think you understand why none of us at the panel are thrilled with the un peace-keeping issues.
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let me just close, certainly this hearing has given us a good sense of complexities that exist. we have similar complexities in the middle east where we are dealing with countries that, you know, leave these vacuums, discriminate various sex that are not of their own and so this is a challenge we have throughout the world when dealing with issues like this, but we thank you for your focus today on africa. as you heard me mention in the last panel, they'll be questions from members in writing. we will close that as of thursday afternoon. if you could respond fairly briefly, we would appreciate it. we thank you for your expertise and knowledge and your willingness to share with us. with that, the meeting is adjourned. >> thank you. >> thank you.


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