tv After Words with J.C. Watts CSPAN May 30, 2016 2:30pm-3:31pm EDT
and peter marx remember the career of late aig ceo bob benmosche, who turns the company around during the height of financial crisis. in coming weeks on "after words," senate majority leader mitch mcconnell how his political philosophy formed his time in the senate. senator barbara boxer will look at her career in politics. also coming up, profiling of the women instrumental to the development of america's space program in the 1940s and '50s. this weekend, demos vice president of policy and research, tamara drought, will talk about america's new working class and their potential political power. she is in conversation with democracy now's amy goodman. >> we have a deep and long history in this country of undervaluing work that involves serving people, and especially caring for people. so we now have a working class
that is much more female and much more people of color than the industrial working class was. and that very definition of who is working class is one reason why i think we've seen a real disappearing of the idea of a working class in this country. >> "after words" airs on booktv saturday at 10:00 p.m. on sunday at 9:00 p.m. iron. you can watch all previous programs on our website, booktv.org. >> "after words" is next on booktv. former oklahoma congressman j.c. watts is talking about his book, "dig peep, seven truths to find strength within. with kevin merida, vice president and editor-in-chief of the undefeated. >> host: jc, great book here with you. >> guest: great to be here. >> host: we used to see each
other all the time on capitol hill, covering "the washington post." it was great to get to know you then and great to be here with you today. >> guest: thank you. when i saw you were doing the interview i was delighted it would be someone i had a little bit of background with and little bit of history with and always found you to be professional in your work with the "washington post" and congratulations on the new assignment with espn. going from politics, current affairs to football, or sports, you'll still have obviously some of those issues that will intersect. they will overlap with each other but nevertheless that is -- >> guest: things you will be interested in. >> guest: we'll be interested in, that's right. >> host: your book, "dig peep, seven truths to finding the strength within." the book we talked about, the undefeated, based on the name,
that is based around a maya angelou quote which was, we may encounter many defeats but we will not be defeated and the sense of overcoming adversity and resilience. i found reading your book a lot of your lessons kind of strike that cord. >> guest: kel, kevin, i, to your point we can lose but not be losers. we can fail but not be failures. thomas edison said that you know, i didn't fail 10,000 times, i just found 10,000 ways it didn't work but he eventually got to where he was, he was trying to go and and i have been, had great fortune in 58 years of living, excuse me, to participate to participate at highest level of athletics. i've been in the faith community
as youth pastor four times in eight years. highest level in political arena. owned my own business. i sat on corporate boards of some outstanding companies and i have learned a lot in all of those things in "dig deep," i take my experiences, you know, my good, my bad, my ugly and try to pass on wisdom that learned to the reader and the 7 truths that i mentioned but, because you lose it doesn't mean that you're a loser and i think, that part of me was grown and nurtured through my athletic career and, of course you put on top of that a faith component that says, you know, doesn't matter how difficult things are,
every storm runs out of rain, you no he. the sun is going to shine again. you know, life can be hard. life can be difficult. life can be messy and you know, i try to encourage the reader to just understand that tomorrow will come. you know, and digging deep is a matter of saying what everyone of us have within ourselves that special something to say, i'm going to fight another down, i'm going to fight another day, i am going to fight through the bad relationship, i'm going to fight through the bad business deal and, and i'm growing to get to the mountaintop and if we all, regardless of what our skin color or what our gender or what part of town we grew up in, if we're liberal or conservative, republican or democrat, that
special something that we all have within us we just have to dig pretty deep sometimes to find it but it's there and if we're to stand on the mountaintop, at some point in time we're going to have to call on it. >> host: what would be the motivation for writing this book? >> guest: , when i started writing the book, seven, eight months ago, i didn't -- it is not a political book. it is more of a, how do i do life better, kind of book. and when i started writing the book, i had, i didn't have politics in mind. i would take some of my political experiences when i talk about adversity. that was, that was a political experience but i was, i was, ironically however the book
speaks to some things we see go on in the political arena today but it was not written for that reason. it was really just my life experiences, my life's challenges, my life's circumstances, as if we're taking those and drawing on the lessons learned to say to the reader that, there are just certain principles woven within the fabric of the that's right you can't, you can't deny them. you can't circumvent them if you're ever to stand on the mountaintop. fortunately, as i said in politics and in business and athletics and as a youth pastor, i learned some of them and i learned them the hard way and i'm the first to say i'm dysfunctional, you know. we all are dysfunctional. it is just a matter of degree.
i'm probably more dysfunctional than you and you're probably more dysfunctional than somebody else but we're all dysfunctional and when, when someone says they're not dysfunctional, that is probably, their dysfunction in thinking they're not dysfunctional. so i'm dysfunctional enough that i need wisdom and teaching and i need mentors. in my personal life i relied on scripture, just peeling the pages of scripture saying, how do i do life better? and for those who have not experienced the seven principles that i talk about in the book, adversity being one of them, if you have not had any adversity in your life, as my father used to say, just keep living. it will come. >> host: it is going to happen. >> guest: it is going to happen, right. >> host: you write early on in
the book that you said dig deep is the phrase that you use for drilling into the core of who i am and drawing out the strength to achieve the strength, to fight another day. >> guest: right. i think that the, in athletics, in0's and '80s we used to call it grit. you can call it many different things. i called it dig deep but again, i think we all have that. i mean you think about a doug williams and warren moon, athletic arena, warren moon and doug williams being kind of barrier-breakers if you will in football for black quarterbacks. jackie robinson, you know, reverend king in his life, you know, larry bird. i can point to larry bird, i can
point to many people in the athletic arena that they understand that phrase, extremely well and it doesn't matter if it is junior high athletics, if it is high school, junior college or professional, we used to do things in high school and high school football practice in southeastern oklahoma that today coaches would be put in jail for doing it you know. but the way we, i was, i grew up under an old school coach, under an old school father and old school grandmother, that it was, no excuses. you know, get it done. i look at, kevin, i look at the university of connecticut women's basketball today and just how dominant they are and those young ladies, they make it actually look easy but it's not.
i think they have, they work hard enough, they perfect their trade, their skill, to the point that it looks easy. i remember watching magic johnson play and larry bird play, and bill russell and kareem abdul-jabbar, you know, jerry west, some of the things -- these guys were around, most of them when i was in junior high and high school and they would make it look so easy but it's not easy. those men and women are challenged every day. as i said, university of connecticut, their women's basketball team, the university of connecticut, their women's basketball team, they won five championships. i remember when ucla back during the john wooden days had an 88-game-winning streak. >> host: back in the days of jabbar, still lew alcindor.
>> guest: keith willings, back in those days of college basketball. an 88-game-winning streak doesn't tell me that those men at the university of connecticut they're just on a winning streak. it tells me they have paid a pretty special price. and if i don't like losing to them, it tells me one thing, i'm got to get better if i will compete with the university of connecticut. if you're going to compete with ucla back during the bill walton, kareem abdul-jabbar, lew alcindor during that time, if you are going to compete with those things, there was one conclusion you have to draw, i've got to get, i've got to get better and i think in today's coaching, kevin, i think we lost a lot of that, that ability to go to the next level to dig, to dig deeper.
i don't know the mental toughness, i don't know what, there are things i could point to but, i mean, just i think we lost a little bit of that mental toughness. i have got a son who is in athletics, i often said his generation are much more analytical than our generation but they're not nearly as driven to get to the mountaintop. i think we all have us within us, ability, special something to fight another day as i said in the book. to get to our.tan top. >> host: when i saw the title, you mentioned about digging deeper, i had a flashback to when i was first getting with my wife and dating my future wife and had a phrase, i used to call
it, donna brit dig deeper program because she was always pressing me to go deep with questions. she was asking really complex questions. she didn't want to live on the surface of superficiality. that's what i was bringing, part of what i was thinking about was that, trying to get kind of a deeper level of engagement. at different times you talk about things like intellectual honesty in your book, of actually really putting aside what your preconceived notions are and actually telling the truth, that kind of digging deep. >> guest: right. and well, i -- there are several things that had in mind when i was talking about that. you know he, you all may, you may remember, probably year-and-a-half ago, year ago, at my all mamatter, university
of oklahoma you had young men singing racist song, the sae fraternity and, and after that, you know, the fraternity was suspended and the president of the university ended up hiring a diversity director, which i'm grateful for but i thought there was, i don't think there was a lot of intellectual honesty there simply because there were no black regents at the university at the time. still not. you know, i don't think there are any black staffers on his personal staff. i think there's maybe one today. not many black deans. you, you know, no african-american firms helping to manage their do youment funds
and the list -- their endowment funds and the list goes on and on. that is one of the situations i had in mind but also intellectual honesty is, i talk about confirmation bias and confirmmation bias says that, i'm watching tv and i use these illustrations in the book, dig deep, but if you are watching tv and you think that black men are thugs or they're dishonest or they all steal, you can see 99 circumstances of an african-american male doing good things but you see one incident on tv, you say, i told you, i told you they were like that. or, flip the coin in the white community. you know, i'm, my father was a police officer. i've got a son-in-law that is a police officer. so i'm not dissing police
officers. what i'm saying is, you can also think that white police officers, they all are bad and you can see 99 wonderful things that a white police officer does and you see north charleston where i personally believe, just, it looks like to me, and what i know, that police officer was guilty and if that young man hadn't had a filming that, he probably would have gotten off. and so but you say, see i told you because you see that one incident. so confirmation bias, talk about unlearning, you know, confirmation bias and intellectual honesty means that sometimes i have to unlearn and i have to rethink and i have to admit and recognize that it's not the way it looks or, i can't
draw that conclusion. and we do it in our politics. we do it in sports. we do it in our wellness programs, in our diets. just the last, 12, 14 years i have had to unlearn a whole lot of old bad habits i picked out of tradition or my culture taught me that, you know, you just can't do that stuff and about 42, 43 i recognized that all those things i learned in they are, fourth grade health class about fruit and vegetables, really does, really does matter but you know, i thought, i am a bean eater. i love beans and pinto beans, lima beans, black beans, any kind of beans and in my culture, and i suspect your culture -- >> host: red beans. >> guest: salt pork and fatback and hamhocks, i remember when my
wife started cooking pinto beans and just put chile powder, garlic powder and different kind of spices and seasons in it, i thought, you're ruining a good pot of pinto beans, but the fact is, didn't taste bad. the benefit was it tasted pretty good and it was much healthier. so unlearning biases what we eat, what we think, our politics, a lot of time we learn things because it fits narrative we want to have or do things just strictly out of culture or out of tradition and those are usually the times that you know, you would hope that at some point in time we would be intellectually honest enough to
say, hey, pinto beans with seasoning, just as good as pinto beans with pork or to say that movie was pretty good despite critics saying you shouldn't go see it or after being president for 20 years, you knew there were no regents, you knew there were no fund managers that looked like me, and then all of a sudden you have a flare-up on campus and you hire a diversity director, giving the impression that i care, i'm concerned about these issues. and i think, i think the president was concerned but, just seems like to me the university could have seen those things 20 years before they happened. >> host: you mentioned two incidents in your book that will be familiar to many black men. one occurred shortly after you
were sworn in as a congressman which had been 1995 where you were stopped, pulled over by six police officers and on suspicion of dust. i. and the other one was when you were at your own department store in your, home district, this is 2013, years later, but you were well-known and followed by somebody and you ended up confronting that person but you were followed in the department store, dressed casually, and just kind of wondered how you would advise handling incidents like that in maybe telling the audience how you handled those? >> guest: well, kevin, that is why i really do try to work to get the facts surrounding
everyone of those situations. i was watching a couple of nights ago, it has been in the last week, i was watching, i don't know if it was an e:60 or 30 for 30 feature about the duke lacrosse teams. >> host: my colleagues at espn films. extraordinary documentary. >> guest: it was a extraordinary documentary, intellectual honesty, it speaks to intellectual honesty i talk about in the book. that situation speaks to jumping to conclusions before you have all the facts and it fit the narrative of everybody that want ad certain narrative they could have gotten it out of that story and at the end of the day it was quite alarming that you would have someone who purposely,
knowingly try to ruin those young men for political, for political reasons. so. you've been around me a long time. you may disagree with my politics or someone may disagree with my politics but i think you could vouch for the fact that i have always tried to understand the issues and know the facts and so when i see police officers, i don't jump, when i see black and white with police officers, i don't jump to conclusions but there are times it crosses my mind to say, was that? >> host: what did you think of that situation? >> guest: because of my personnal experiences. this was 3:00 in the afternoon. this wasn't 3:00 in the mornings, 3:00 a.m., this was 3:00 p.m., broad daylight in march and i pulled over into a dry cleaning establishment that
i use, that i used at that time and i saw these lights behind me. you know, all of us, you see those lights and there is just something off on inside of you, you think what have i done? i pulled over and i saw that police officer pulled in behind me and another police officer pulled in and another police officer pulled in and at the end of the day, six police officers pulled in behind me in broad daylight. i got out, i said, what in the world -- my father being a police officer, taught me, you don't do things that could be perceived as being hostile. so i, put my hands down, what is going on? and so they got out and said that they had gotten a call that i was dui and i said, sir, i don't even drink.
and he put his hand on my cheek like that and asked me to blow and i did. and i said, what is going on here? i said i'm disturbed by this. he said, well we got a call, and i said, why did it take six police officers? and they said they didn't know who i was, which, i disagreed with that because i, also know my father being a police officer, taught me that you don't pull anybody over without calling in finding out who the car was registered to, this was registered to my wife and me. so they knew who it was and maybe they didn't know who i am and kevin -- >> host: you were a congressman at that point. >> guest: i was congressman two or three months into my first year in congress and i don't
want to assume that everybody knew it. this was kind of a big deal that, you know, the first african-american republican elected in oklahoma in south of the mason-dixon line, first time ever since reconstruction. former quarterback at the university of oklahoma. that was my home community, my adopted home community and at the end of it, one guy did say, he said, now, didn't you just get elected to something? and so the whole thing was just, just bizarre. and then, fast forward, -- >> host: 2013. >> guest: 2013, less than three years ago i'm, my wife and i are in a department store and we're walking around. i'm in jeans and baseball hat, i mean a baseball jacket and, from
my hometown of in oklahoma, and wearing a black leather cap, a little apple cap and rarely do you not see me in a cap unless it is on sundays and i'm in church but i'm walking around and i see, and i'm pretty, my kids say that i am very aware when my space is penetrated, my personal space. so well here is somebody in personal space with a gun. so obviously recognized this gentleman coming into my space, he was probably five yards from me and so i was looking at some clothes and didn't pay much attention to it but went to another area of the men's department and he followed me there. so now after this i'm a little bit suspicious. so i go to another area of the store and he followed me there. and so now my wife had reconnected with me and so, i told her, i said, let's go
through the kids department. and she didn't know what i was doing. i was just trying to establish -- >> host: that you were being followed. >> guest: that i was being followed. i didn't want to escalate it. i didn't want a story about former congressman wants special rights with police officers and, and so i went through the children's department to establish that he was following me and so he did. and so we were leaving the store at the time, i told my wife, just one second. she thought i had seen somebody i knew and i was going back to gab with them. so i went back and, i said to the officer, i said, sir, are you following me? he said, i'm doing my job. i said, is your job to follow me? , he said i'm doing my job. so i again, didn't want to escalate it. i was trying to keep it simple and be calm bit. and so i went and caught up with
my wife and told her what was happening. so i went back again, i said, sir, people know me in this store. my wife and i were in this store all the time. people know me here. and i said, you know, you know, basically, trying to walk him off the cliff, and he said, i don't care if you're the president. i don't know if he meant the president of the united states or the president of the store. so, you know -- >> host: struck by that comment. you know. i'm sure that the president of the united states have been some things that people have said to the president that, maybe interpreted as racially motivated or -- >> guest: yeah. and i don't know what, i mean i could have interpreted that different ways but again i was trying to, you know, not elevate
this thing, not escalate it. let's just you know, be cool and go on and so, we, we left and my wife said, you need to, you need to say something to somebody. so, i was feeling it as well. she encouraged me to. so i went back and i saw one of the employees, she said, i saw that whole thing. she said i'm amazed what just happened. i said is your store manager here. the store manager, the big, the manager of the general manager, she left for the evening. . .
she was talking to him and he came up to me now, in mind just in 12 minutes prior to this she said i don't care if you're the president . whatever, he ran up to me and he said oh, mister watts, i apologize. i'm so sorry.and so he said, you looked like somebody that was in her earlier and i said sir, i was telling you, trying to tell you without throwing my name around and making it look like you think you're so much . i said, i was trying to de-escalate this thing and he said, i'm so sorry. my wife, she had gotten riled and said i'm assuming the guy you saw earlier was black and kevin, you would have thought that my wife had officiated.
i'm trying to settle her down and so i said sir, he said i'm so sorry. i told him i said, sir, i accept your apology but i want you to know, i've got kids and i've got grandkids. and i would hate for them to come in here and have to go through the humiliation that you put me through over the last 20, 25 minutes and i just wanted him to know that and so police officers are fallible and their human and they're not immune to mistakes or making bad choices and so it's not as simple for me because as i said, i take my life experiences, my circumstances and so it's not as simple for me to look through, just look through the prism of the person that's being harassed or the police officer or the
person that thinks there being harassed. i want the full story. and so, i could tell you other things that happened as a member of congress. those were just two and nevertheless ... >> host: it's always interesting when the state things happen because you're trying to process how should you feel about it? get that motivation. you write in your book at one point, you say i'm grieved to hear the word racist thrown around irresponsibly because indiscriminate use cheapens that word and robs it of its power. in those things, do you think that was racism? and when should racism be used? >> guest: the reason i said it cheapens it and i think it
took a serious blow. i think racism stillexists . i saw, i don't know how people concluded the study, how they conducted the study but it said that 34 percent or 37 percent, somewhere along there of donald trump supporters still believe that freeing the slaves was a mistake and 17 percent said they didn't know. they didn't know if it wasor if it wasn't . i think some old attitudes exist and racism in my life, when i've seen it, i knew it was. and i would just say to the police officer in that department store , i believe
and i agree that bad people come in there, white, black, red, yellow brown, come in the story to do bad things, to steal, to try to do destructive things. however, i would say don't treat all black people that way because you had a bad experience with one or two. just as i would say to black people, don't treat white police officers that way because you had a bad experience with a white police officer. i do think the word has been cheapened in so many respects because i think race, again, this is not a political book what when you look in the political arena i think it's been used on both sides to score a brownie points, to where i think we often use the word to appeal to people's fears as opposed to appealing to their intelligence.
i would rather people appeal to my intelligence rather than appealing to my fears and we talked about the duke university situation a little earlier, the girls hockey team. i saw that documentary just within the last week and i thought that was a perfect example of how that situation was a case that anybody could have taken out of it whatever they wanted to take out of it to confirm their bias. white or black. and at the end of the day, i just really think those young men lost that, i think that young lady and her family, i think they lost and i think perfecting our union, i think it lost. >>.
>> host: you are first african-american to win statewide all oklahoma when you were elected in 1990 for the state commission that regulates public utilities and oil and gas industries. then five years later, the first african-american to be elected in a congressional district. that hadn't sent a republican to washington since 1920 so you know what it is to be the first and to have, i'm going to assume certain expectations placed on you. how do you kind of dealt with that in your life when, because you're the first to achieve, there's certain expectation people have of you and they want to project their own aspirations andhope on you . >> guest: kevin, i'm grateful for jackie robinson and the old negro leagues and ranch
ricky and i don't know if you saw the movie 42 but it gave a little peek into that time in america's history and it dealt with more than 40 sports, it happened in the sports arena. the baseball arena but that was a social issue of the day . the first african-american baseball player and brenda scott was the firstblack football player at the university of oklahoma in 1956 , 20 years later j.c. watts and roles oncampus and i talked about putting this in the book. i stand on their shoulders . i don't think i had to go through as much as a jackie robinson or a prentice gault. >> host: who you describe couldn't even eat in certain restaurants.
>> guest: right. jc center for another alumnus who passed away about the last year and a half, jt sandiford was a white football player that roomed with prentice and so i mean, he stepped up and said he can room with me so i got to know jt really well. i didn't get to know prentice as well as i would have liked to have known him but both of those men, jakey white, prentice gault, a black, i stand on their shoulders and knowing them and understanding you know, i'm 58 so i understand, i experienced some of the last elements of jim crow in the movie theater, you couldn't swim in the public swimming pool until i was about in the fourth grade.
i was one of the first to black kids and you desegregate public schools so i've seen, again i don't compare my circumstances with jackie or prentice golf by any stretch because they were the first of the first, the first ever. i've been either the first or close to the first enough in my life that things were 180 from what jackie had to deal with or what prentice had to deal with or what jt sandiford had to deal with rooming with the first black athlete but i've been close enough to it because what i saw in the late 60s and 70s to have at least gotten a really good peak into you
know, having some feeling for what they might have experienced, what they did experience and so it was a little more, you know, black quarterback although when i saw black quarterbacks on tv i was usually watching southwestern athletic conference reruns on sunday morning before church . and you saw black quarterbacks but i didn't see black quarterbacks in the national football league. i didn't see black head coaches in the football league. so my experiences were much different because things were a little better but nevertheless, it was still some getting used to and african-american the wasn't a democrat. he was a republican. seeing a black quarterback and how people responded to that at the university of
oklahoma. i was talking to a reporter and talked about this and dig deep where a reporter said to me he said, i've got letters from fans who say a, we think jc's a good guy and did okay quarterback, we just would like to have a white quarterback. there was still some elements of society, they were not used to that. they were not comfortable with that but in spite of what circumstances or situations i found myselfin , i've never felt any pressure, anymore or less than what i was. i've learned in my life that you run your race. my race isn't going to be your race, your race isn't going to be my race and were going to have to apply the same troubles to get to our respective mountaintops because woven within europe, you'regoing to have to overcome adversity. you're going to have to
unlearn some things. you're going to have to have humility . so i've learned to try to run my race and maybe i was in athletics, the focus wasn't, i told that reporter i said, if my skin color was an issue that was everybody else's issue, that wasn't mine. i went to barry switzer, the head coach and my teammates, as long as they were comfortable with it, i was good. i was okay. and they were. and i had a good career at oklahoma and. >> host: you went frombeing the six string quarterback initially to starting . and when they went to the championships. >> guest: the orderable victories. >> host: the rest of the century. you mentioned five key habits of practices that allow you
to turn adversity into an advantage. i was struck by number five on that list was last. >>. >> guest: i think that is important. the book of proverbs talks about laughter being good for the soul and i grew up with anybody that knew my father and his brother weighed and her brother lois. it was quite a treat to get those three under the same roof at the same time and not only did they do a good job of creating laughter in our homes and in our lives but also other people that as i said earlier, kevin, i didn't write the book as a political book but when you look at the political arena today, it seems like the nation that we
are angry, but we are mad about everything and we don't watch current affairs shows today looking for the truth, we watch those shows to have our opinions affirmed or to have our biases confirmed so i don't watch many current affairs shows, not like watching soap operas, you could be away for six months and then tune in for 10 minutes and the talking ports are the same, nothing has changed but i do think laughter is extremely important. i mentioned a guy in the book and in dig deep, i guy by the name of faye odell. his name was spelled f ayp. faye was kind of a legendary high school football coach, an old marine and faye and i did kind of cross paths. he was from oklahoma but we would cross paths occasionally on the fca,
fellowship of christian athletes, that circuit and the state of oklahoma and fate was you know, five, 8 1/2, 59, legendary high school football coach that used to always say to me he said, just think about it. if your parents would have named you a and would've named me julius caesar, how much fun we could have had with that? but he was just a master at making you laugh and i do think that laughter is good for the soul, it helps, i've talked to, i've read studies and talk to doctors, read different medical journals about laughter and unforgiveness, how those two things impact our lives and i
talk about both of them in dig deep but yes, i kind of like the laugh. i think it's good for us. >> host: you pose the question in dig deep which is, how did our culture become so grim and angry? how would you answer that question? >>. >> guest: i think because of our biases. i think being intellectually dishonest, the very things that i talkabout . i had the great fortune of going up in eufaula oklahoma and i grew up in a part of the black community, it was kind of rural america. the railroad tracks separated the white community from the black community and i had grown up on the east side of the railroad tracks, i grew
up from the edge of the black community but i was surrounded by native americans, surrounded by people in the white community and then the black community and my high school basketball coach, murray ansell was old blood creek indian. my high school football coach was a dig deep, old-school coach by the name of paul bell and i had buddy watts and jc watts senior at home so i was, my trek trifecta was red, black and brown and i mean, red black and white and all of them kind of confirmed what the other was saying. you would have thought that coach anderson, is he home? was he listening and last night was marquis coach know listening in last night because my father was saying the same thing they were saying and they were saying the same thing my father was saying so they talked about
principles and hard work and sacrifice and commitment and you know, coach anderson and coach bell, when you are high schoolbasketball and football coach tell you, they are the high priest . it's the gospel. so truth, i think we've gotten away from truth. we learn more towards our biases, our opinions. you can go because of social media, you can go for months not talking to anybody that disagrees with you. i mean, i've been in quarterback meetings and offense of coordinator nights and other quarterbacks that often the staff would come to blows almost on what should be done or what we should run or what we should do against certain coverages and certain defenses when we walked out of the room. it wasn't jc's plan, it
wasn't coach gil breaks plan, it was our plan and so i think you have to start if we are to be a more joyful society, you first have to start with, what is the truth? and the truth is not, i mean i look at the presidential race today and i'm baffled by some of the things that happened, some of the things that's been said. there's not a lot of humility it seems in our culture today. it's a lot of eye, i, me, me. you don't here we or us a whole lot and politics lends itself to being the first mentality. but humility, i can tell you any society or any candidate that says that's just the way i am and that's kind of the
definition for humility is not part of my dna. i don't want to be held accountable. and nobody can correct me and correction again, in athletics, you can tell in the faith community, you can tell a whole lot about a man or woman or an individual by correcting them. now, i don't believe in condemning people but i do think that correction is good for all of us and in athletics, i've been in offenses meetings where the coach would say jc, you are telling us. every time he threw the ball into that coverage, we get intercepted. don't do that, you're killing us. i've seen coaches do that two other players and players that would be deemed the star
players, the name players and ironically, there was a time that the great players would say coach, thank you. thank you. i want to be corrected. i want to be great. i want to be better. i want to be good. so that happens with correction. now, fast forward 20 years from 1972 the year 2000, fast forward 30 years and it's hard for coaches tocorrect players these days. especially your name players. i remember there was a big hoopla about jimmy johnson when he was coaching the dallas cowboys , he left his star quarterback troy aikman and people , they couldn't figure out why he would leave a star football player. he had a shirt and tie and he
said the bus was leaving and troy was not there and of course, troy went on and today he's in the national football league hall of fame. correction doesn't always ... i'm not sure any of us take correction as well as we should but the truth usually does hurt before it helps and that's what the key is. with employees, in the church, my wife and i went to a marriage conference here for five years ago and you know, i wasn't excited about it. >> valentine's day. >> i wasn't excited about going and i went and got some strong medicine and i thought jenny evans was the guy, he's got a book called marriage life today and man, he was
just picking on the men in here. but you know, jim and i look back on that and i couldn't argue at the end of the day, i couldn't argue with anything that he was saying so it did hurt but nevertheless, i think it made me better, a better husband. a better father, a better friend area if we can accept correction, if it's given in the right way in the right spirit, excepting correction should be good for us, not bad for us you played quarterback and like you said, you went to oklahoma on a scholarship in 1976 and you are in that period of time between 76 and now with that number of black quarterbacks both have had successes in college, still had success in
thepros and this past season , the mvp of the national football league was an african-american quarterback, cam newton and there was a lot of discussion about him as both quarterback and a personality. i just wondered if you could kind of look in that evolving. from 76 to now, kind of where you see we are with both looking at black quarterbacks , how they have been able to occupy status and stature and in football and be assessed for their skills and the diversity of their personas or where are we as a nation. >> i think as you know, you and i are two or three years of age, two or three years with an age with we've known
each other and when i was a kid growing up as i said earlier, you saw black quarterbacks in the slack at grambling. eddie robinson and eddie robinson was my hero. i thought grambling university, i thought at one time that's where i wanted to play football . but with the quarterbacks jefferson street, joe, you saw quarterbacks, black quarterbacks in a backer called roland iremember jefferson street joe gilead who played for the pittsburgh steelers , they thought there was some grumbling that he might be out terry bradshaw for the starting job but it never happened and joe had some, eventually had somereal serious issues that he never overcame . but ... i'm grateful for
jamesharris and joe gilead . i think kevin for giving i think, black quarterbacksthe picture of what could look like . when, i remember when i was coming out of college and people had a little bit of a pass with me because i was a wishbone quarterback so i remember asking the new york jets, what's my chances of playing quarterback, they drafted me and said was my chances of playing quarterback they said slim to none. we don't need help with quarterback so i went to canada, i was going to prove i could throw the ball 30 times a game which i did and i was going to come back and try the nfl but i was a mobile order back. and back then, the prototype quarterback was six foot three, six foot five, six foot six. you stand back there and what we call 60 protection or date drop back and you read defenses and throw the ball downfield. and so i think when the black
quarterback really progressed was doug williams and warren moon. i think those two guys really just put the black quarterback on the map. doug williams, first african-americanquarterback , greater grambling, first-round draft for the tampa bay buccaneers, first player taken that year. started, on a super bowl. warren moon. didn't get drafted. warren was a mobile quarterback. there's a difference between being a mobile quarterback and a running quarterback. even if i was an authentic coordinator today, i wouldn't want a running quarterback, somebody that's going to try to run the ball 10 yards downfield. i want you throwing the ball 10 yards downfield. warren was mobile enough you could move around the pocket and by time and there was still some question whether
or not he could do it, not warren and i were the two quarterbacks in the 81 breakup so i got to see him up close and personal and new he had a special sauce back then but be that as it may, i think warren and doug coming and just, dog winning the super bowl, warren didn't get drafted out of washington, went to canada, set every passing recordavailable known to man up there . came back to the national football league as a free agent, signed with houston and today is in the national football league hall of fame so i think what they did is really , that's kind of the foundation for the black quarterback and as you said, fast-forward 20 years down the road, i think can and the black quarterbacks today, what i'm looking for in a
quarterback, i'm saying how well the daily defense? how well do they throw the ball downfield. if they are running i want them to protect themselves but i'm coaching and teaching and i'm saying hey look, if you've got a choice, i'd rather you throw the ball 18 yards downfield rather than run it and i think cams been in the league this year, i think he's been in pretty good at knowing his limitations in terms of running and that you're too valuable to the team, you can't get hurt and he's probably a talent that i can't say we've ever seen in the national football league. black or white. now, you put his talents and use around its with the hip-hop culture, some people, that's going to rub them the wrong way but kevin, i remember when a female sports reporter, that was foreign to usnd