tv Chicago Tribune Printers Row Lit Fest Discussion on Womens Experiences CSPAN August 3, 2016 1:07am-2:11am EDT
>> good afternoon. welcome, everyone to the 32nd annual printers row with fast. i would like to give a specialrs thank you to the sponsors. social media plug, the theme is what's your course encourage everyone to share the stories they hear this weekend on twitter, instead grant facebook using the hash tag #prl16. you can download the app where you will find all of "the chicago tribune"'s content and discounted books for subscribers and the complete schedule. you will get $5 off the membership. today's broadcast is being
broadcast on c-span2 book tv. when the time comes, please line up at the microphones of the audience can hear the questions you have. and the last thing before wen os start, please silence your cell phone and turn off the flash is how many cameras you have. with that, we are pleased to welcome chicago's podcast and today's moderator, gretta johnson. [applause] >> thanks to all of you for day, coming. i am verging on the likeness thabutit's too hot, so good foru for choosing a c.. my name is gretta and i'm the host of a podcast called nerdette. it can be anything fro anythingr calculus just as easily as for could example, feminism.
the c-span title of the discussion is discussion on women, which i think is great because we are all automatically qualified to be on the stage regardless anything else we do in our lives. of i thought if each of you has a different approach to feminismsm in your books do you want to go down the line and talk a little bit about what you are working on and why. 2015 >> i released an article this past february and it's very loosely based on her life and inspired by the life of ivan b.a wells barnett who was a suffragist that fought for civil rights and had her own newspaper and editor or journalist most
known for the fact she was heryd own crusader during her lifetime. my novel is of the young wife of a girl from jim crow south who moves to the west and start her own paper in the distric distrif kansas city missouri in the first quarter of this century and never once used the term feminism in my book. however when you read about the action of her partner she launches the newspaper clearly h belong to the tradition of the stranded offshoots of feminism which is the us to not only women but also black men and black children and it's become clear in which they use the newspaper for the democratic rights.
certainly they identify with the term of black feminism. [applause] >> i wrote a memoir called shrill that came out a couplee thanks weeks ago. very perso >> is a personal approachablerif feminism on the experience of growing up as a big girl and a big woman where i felt that i was taught and conditionedmake f aggressively to make myselfall n small physically in my presence and opinions and so the book is about growing out of that and figuring out how to live in my body and personality.
the way they are now is not to shape and mold and shrink them for these externally applied e expectations for a million reasons because they are based on capitalism. there's a lot of people making fun of th the fact it's our jobo be small and compliant. my mid i i discussed that i was living my life in the future who would eventually succeed and then i could have a real life. so the book is about coming to that moment and pushing through to say this is my body and that may never change. i have to be okay with that. be
what else i havbottles i have as nothing wrong with being me. so that's the arc of the book. that sounded very grim but it also deals with other stuff that i harp about. >> all of the fun things. [applause]ca traister, and i i wrote a book called off a single ladies. it's interesting we have totally different genres. my book is a nonfiction look that can mean a whole different thing and i am a journalist and i write about politics.
i intended this book to be aboun the swiftly expanding population of women who are delaying or forgoing the traditional hetero marriage that's exploded over the past few decades. when i started doing the research on the buck i realized there was a fascinating history in the united states all around race and class and social the bo movements so the book wound up being a bigger project and it'ss a mishmash of the way that we need to look at the social policies in which americans are living now in the lives and also
a look at the history living independently and what happened in areas when they did waser independently of marriage and there is a friend o thread of mn story in there, too mac but it's a minor thread. [applause] i have to say i am super excitet to talk with you about all the things. i definitely want to talk about hillary because it was a big week and i feel like you will have an insight about that having written big girls don't cry. but i thought i would start with asking you how your relationship with feminism has changed over your life. partly i ask because i guess i'm
going to admit i wouldn't call myself a feminist even five i. years ago.e feel so [inaudible] that makes me feel so much better. for me i thought it admitted that there was an imbalance that i kind of just refused to acknowledge. and it's funny looking back because that's from the place of privilege that i've looked through my mid-20s and felt like for the most part i did have the same opportunities men did and i was treated fairly so what's the big difference. i don't know if it is reasonable to call post feminism because here we are i want to hear about >> are you? another -- that is a term i go
back and forth with and i want to say primarily it's because i studied history as a graduate student and i would always consider historically what they did during the first wave of feminism when we look back at their life's work we would contextualize this and i would look for contemporary analogy is. i struggle when i'm on the internet and i'm looking at the feminist conferences i have a problem with a lot of what i see. for example, i won't put anybody on blast but i was looking at a conference, one occurred in australia and one in india the footage i saw that occurred in
australia for example did notex address the fact that there are very many that have too much to drink and think of it with a rifle to go hunt aborigines. they think it's fun to hunt and find them, discard them. there was no dialogue about this. so we were exporting feminism and we are going into the land is still as having a sort of me approach. when i feel there is room you can be about your self. writing is a form of activism. but i do think that we have a responsibility because we have exported to feminism to take on or at least address or give a voice to some of the struggles
happening with women globally.c my same feeling applies to the n conference where there is aring. movement if you hear an indian woman getting beat by her husband, the idea if you run over and ring the bell = girly stuff that ma maybe for the nig. but we don't hear when they are in india speaking at the conference is even addressing the issues of domestic violence so it would seem to me it's the aspect of the real movement that's largely missing and i think if you want to use the term as an adjective, that's fine but please if my voice is falling on your years and you ee one of these women ask your self
what exactly are you doing to say i am a feminist and i want what he has. it's got to be bigger than that. [applause]ally har >> i tried really hard to think of feminism of something i do and not as i am aware that you can use the status and then you get a bunch of credit. it's still stigmatized and horrible. you are still treated horribly in certain circles if you say the word feminist. i totally agree there are huge gaps even in people's global understanding in what women are facing in other places, and itey is easy.
of course i just wrote 300 pages out of my feeling. i am very conscious of those and worry about it a lot. it's a struggle, and i try to not just write about my feelings but to seek out other people's viewpoints and make sure thatke i'm at least aware of my place in the world at the same time i think that personal narrative is powerful and i don't want to choose between campus rape or honor killings. it's important to address all of those things and it's important for me to stay to some extent in my lane and not to those whose
experiences i don't understand. it's an action. but in terms of my journey i was taught i went into it definitely buying into the stigma that it wasn't cool and boys won't like you if you are a feminist because they are annoying wet blankets like everything -- like to ruin everything. i grew up in a super progressivb household. i went into college like i don't
know. then the freshman year i had aa professor who said raise your hand if you are a feminist and then we were all like one girl that was cool and had a nose ring and then they went around the class shaming us individually saying you don't believe that you deserve equal rights? yes but no one has asked me on a date. so i have some strikes againstsn me.de they had equal rights and the world is not a safe and just place the women.
since then, my understanding has broadened to understand that there are a lot of women of color that don't identify and it's important to understand that, too ma. was that too much flip-flopping. >> i mostly stream everything but because of th the claimants that we arclimate thatwe are lig more televisionn . in laymen's terms, feminism was given and a woman who wants to be equal to a man. it gets turned on its head because what does it mean, and
you do have to add there is a very different picture when yous do that. when i consider the conversations that i had in the academy, i often can't get a higher salary and when i consider that african-american men the degree to which they are hunted by the police and there is a mass incarceration i fare better wanting to be equal in the community that looks very different. it needs to be expanded upon because it's different based on your class and based on their race that definition fails us i don't think about men at all.
[laughter] >> i was just curious. >> i think this is about a global takeover. the definitions that are generated are complex and far more nuanced. i'm teaching it in the fall of northwestern and i'm just reading the fantastic book called shadowboxing. it's a very rigorous analysis you made me think of it again because you mentioned capitalism that's got me excited about reading the book because i'm going to get a lot from it because we are at war with capitalism let me tell you. the terms that you encounter in the academic approaches are more nuanced and rigorous then you
would hear on a talk show. >> as far as -- briefly in terms of my own background and feminism, i'm totally ambivalent on the term. i wrote a piece many years ago about abandoning it for many years in part because it has come under valid critiques. they've come under so muchch attack from the right and are very threatened by gender equality and there are periods in recent history it's been used to suggest all kinds of ugly things about women and we could
start from scratch. i don't have a particular attachment to term. -- no, i i just think it is a term about feminism itself in the women's movement or a series of movements of all kinds of social movements in the history that have worked from all kinds of angles towards what i think of as the larger goal of increasing opportunity in addressing and bi injustice with interlocking and over as -- over intersecting.
this is feminism, the women's movement. it's been the right ofion. contradiction and a to suggest that it's been unified in some way, it is meaning half the population has agitated for increased opportunity and greater access to the rights ane justice. it's half the population and they contain multitudes of the priorities of the expected experiences. there is never going to be one on guerrilla movement that serves women and so from thebe beginning of the movement there've been fights.
it's one of the things you see time we just got the example ing the primary election they don't like hillary and feminism is exploding. no, no. my positive spin on this is that it's the cacophony and conflict that tells you the movement is healthy and it is continuing to move forward and fight battles. the unified women's movement wouldn't be doing as much good because there is no unified priority. so the story but it's about to implode on itself because everybody's arguing about what we should be dealing with that's a sign that it is healthy as it always has been and is shifting with changing circumstances and. challenges.
so that's my take on some of the stuff. i was raised and a progressive household. my mother came of age just before the movement and she had been raised very conservative. her political awakening had come and she got an advanced degree but she hadn't been brought to life by feminism in any way. my father also a very progressive, he would have said he of course married to a woman that made a bargain he did and
believed in the intellectual equality of women that he never washed a dish in the relationship that was domestically and still is very traditional. my almost conservative on a fa farm. i was interested in high school i went to the march for women'ss lives at the period i was comin of age it was like a deep freeze on the feminism. i went to school at northwestern and let me tell you you could basically go to the potluck and ask who are the feminists. no one we know.
i was very interested in these things looking at the literature from the feminist perspective. i didn't know i wanted to be a journalist but the idea that i would find the professional athletic interests are about power dynamics and identity. i never imagined the world but there would be the professional outlet for that.where i wa i took a job where i could write about things that interest me like in 2003 and 2004 which happens to be the kind we now refer to out of the 2004 election and i began to write journalism from this perspecti
perspective.n mostly it's been about learning. as a student i was looking at literature but i didn't take any of the classes. it's been a process of teaching myself about the history of alli of this stuff so that's how my perspective has changed. i've been wrong so many times about it which is great because then i had to learn more about it. >> when you said you wanted to s put a positive spin, i would like to see more action in the feminist movement i was thinkinw today when i was watching the news and i saw the back page of the stafford daily and the massive protest and number of a- signatures that they were able
to galvanize, it occurred to me this probably wouldn't have happened without feminism. as for the positive spin we don't want to come down on the anti-feminism. it's done a lot of good i justsu want more. i want to say the sentenc this t the judge handed down its absolute ludicrous. [applause] and al the fact that they are vocal is a wonderful thing and the same way feminism plays a part in the fact that when the female teachers sexually abuse their young male students that's also wrong and why men get much
longer sentences. let's stop calling and teachers having sex with their students in the calling of molestation and rape, what it is. so the culture is moving forward in feminism has played a major role. >> and that's what makes me even when i am critical of the aspects of feminism and at this point when i was a young person i couldn't imagine having a career in feminism and now it's like there is a reasonable critique of the celebrity c feminism culture and a lot of it is totally valid of the empty calorie feminism.lashon however, agreeing to with lashonda, if it also produces a
population of young women and young men that are able to look at the world with the lens anddr interest in gender and power and one of the things i've been ho thinking about one thing i wish there was more of his others are too long. part of the comparison getting back to your plaintive race and incarceration is the sentences we are handing down to african american men in particular and as long as we have this instance that has rightfully garnered our attention is very fair to say the sentence is too short and it
might be worth looking at the excessive sentences we handed down to other people. >> who we label the rapist and , guy that made a mistake. it's easy for people to call a black man a rapist and then while he's a kid that's a good swimmer and god drowned. going back to the work that people do i know it seems frivolous to a lot of people communicating on the internet about these issues. i don't think that it is wholly without value. for example in my community this week in seattle we discovered that a person who was a fixture in the community, a person i've known for nearly a decade allegedly was exploiting -- it
is a gray area whether it counts as rape or not but he was preying on young women and people have known about this for a long time but it was like individual voices and no one be peeved one woman and it took until right now when they finally found each other because you have things like finally bill cosby is going to trial anh finally we have just a little more cultural dialogue about what rape means and how it affects people and how we talk about it. i watched in real time these women he had been whispering about it trying to figure outig what to do i watched them find each other and other women circle around them and demand that they be heard. that's a product of the internet and at the current moment. it's one case in one city, but
it's real. >> something similar to that happened in chicago. they had an investigative piece about a well-known member of the theater community who it turned out had been engaging in some super manipulative behavior anda i think even in the stanford case to your point that wouldn't that wou have happened without feminism and also without the internet. internet. the letter the victim wrote, that blew up. that was like the most shared thing on my facebook page for years and then also the expansion of feminism as a profession, that letter -- it is the internet and also a reporter that has done an incredible -- because again now there is a profession and there was in the
70s, but for now because of nowf technology and the internet it's a big profession you have publications that employ the reporters so you have someone like katie baker at buzz feed that has reported a series of incredible pieces about sexual assault and has earned the trust of people by today for the letter to publish. so they expanded feminism's current status and popularity. >> i think the efficacy of the internet can't be denied. i don't have issues with trolls but in his west can talk about that. [laughter]now, when i think about the women that have to content with them
maybe more power to you, your voice is being heard and you were deemed powerful. they are trying to shut you down because you do have a voice so you should be celebrating. [laughter] you >> it's true we know no one tries to start a fight with you unless you are being heard and you are threatening. [laughter] so that's great. >> don't get mad about what if just one day a week no men were allowed to use the internet? [laughter] >> what day would it be? >> whatever data they want. they could go outside and play soccer. [laughter] >> do you tell them sometimes? >> i do.
>> it would be so peaceful. going back to what feminism means to us, there are women who call themselves feminists that i find repulsive and say the worst things to me and spend their time harassing me and otherr female writers as much as men. when you said you were thinking we should abolish or retire it i know you didn't call for thatrtt aggressively but i had an epiphany. it doesn't inherently mean something to me in the way thats to the degree that it's usededte against me to lump me together with women whose views i do not agree with and also just to
paint us all with this brush and discredit us all at once. >> don't you think whatever you would call it the -- i don't think we should get rid of it but i haven't really thought about my dissatisfaction. >> there's power in the fact there isn't a monolithic definition and that we have to chicana feminism. i think that gives a lo him of r for building even bigger. like you said from day number one it's been contentious. there was a book i was talkingid about -- this is booktv so i feel like i can name drop. published years ago nancy published modern feminism and it's a look at what we've called feminism, dealing
with women's suffrage and icoupf remember laughing my butt off reading the first couple chapters. the author had done her primary source of research and there were notes from meetings where alice paul and susan b. anthonyn and lucy maud were at each other's throats. when we think about the fight for the women's vote, we seem to sort of romanticize it as a monolithic movement.you kn never. she was told all you want to do is make babies, you can't be the face of the movement because yoe were getting pregnant every ye year. the debate they were having was important. i'm glad you point out because it's always been that way. >> when i was doing my research on unmarried women it's
incredible. you read now people writing off single women voters and all they want is the government to pay for their birth control and that comes from the right. then there's all kinds of arguments in the press about the benefits of early marriagets ofi versus late marriage and you think these are contemporary phenomena but in fact you see the exact same arguments laid out many times happening in the 19th and 20th century and one oe my favorite anecdotes from idasg b. wells autobiography she got married later and she had been an activist working closely with susan b. anthony was aggressively anti-marriage. when the super married cady stanton hadn't heard from susan b. anthony she wrote a note
saying where are you, dad were married. [laughter] susan b. anthony worked closely with ida b. wells and she gets married slightly later and she writes about how when she returned to activism, susan b. anthony was so mad she got married she could only refer to her as mrs. barnett. [laughter] all this plus the arguments about race, class, inclusion, socialism, the goal of pacifism. one way they got it going as you had feministis youhad feministsn pacifists, you saw some of the feminists support over wilson's injury into the war to get thee 19th amendment passed which
created an enormous rift between the former allies. the fights we have right now you would find direct echoes practically in a variety of er eras. >> did you have something you wanted to add? >> i'm out of my depth with people that know things. [laughter]nd of a throwaway litt i just wrote a throwaway little essay. when you are a daily blogger you skin studies and then regurgitate them in to say something funny at the end. i was doing one of those where it was a study about women who take their husbands last name versus those who don't. i don't remember the conclusiono that i wrote about my own
experience where i didn't take my husband's name, but i have some visceral attraction to the idea.that appeals t there's something about it that appealed to me and i don't know why and i was like i broke feminism. and the i wrote that my husband would never allow it. my husband would not let me take his name because he has a lot of -- seems black and he has a lot of feeling about ownership and implications of that and he wouldn't want to send the message to people that he pressured me to be his possession. he has intense high-minded ideas about this and of course i would always be like no. in the comments people said
that's not very feminist if your husband won't let you do about how it something. w then there was an argument of what wasn't feminist for me to not want to. then it gets picked up bywhere e antifeminist blogs like this [lau disproves feminism and i just remember thinking me having that little conflict in this urge that was at odds with my politics, i love that aboutconta feminism, i love those contradictions into trying to figure them out but there is this endless spectrum of nuance within this ideology or whatever you want to call it that we are modern and engaged enough to take on and try to figure out
and talk to each other and look inside ourselves. mon the idea is a strength and also very appealing. i've been thinking about it lately i would say one of the biggest issues in feminist fighting right now is the inclusion of trans women and i don't understand why. i see a lot of feminists say no, we cannot allow the transit women to be women because womanhood is a static secret thing etc. and then i've been on this book tour and i was just at
the glasgow library looking around at this entire library filled with books by women about the history of women's lives and all the things we have fought about for a century at least and i was like this is the thing we don't grapple with, you've just decided it's insurmountable and you can't get your head around this thing? that feels wrong to me. >> but don't you think the fight is grappling with at?? >> but there's not an engagement on the exclusionary side.li i think there've been other iterations. i think like elizabeth cady stanton around race and the vote there were a lot of iterations on that. i'm not disagreeing with you but
i feel like some of the intransigent this is the line, that's also been a part. >> i think i am saying how can you look at all of this and then not see that you are choosing the wrong side of history? [applause] >> we jus >> we just have a couple of minutes before questions. i talked to you earlier today for an upcoming episode of the podcast and one thing you said that i thought was fun as if you could rip van winkle your self to january to skip this entire process, you absolutely would. i'm curious if you agree with that if he would skip ahead to january 2017 if you have the t t magical power to do so.
>> i would come absolutely with a dirty martini in hand. [laughter] [applause] we are going to be pretty to aot lot of back and forth and it's not good for the younger generation or us. there will be a logistical war online and television the next several months. if there were real discussions about real issues, i would be forgot.warren i adore elizabeth warren and so many people on twitter and facebook were happy she got donald trump told. part of me was happy but i thought that genius brilliant
woman i would rather her use her voice in other ways and i think that there's going to be so much more of that.>> >> in pure practical terms into the fear of what we will hear and how bad some of it is goinga to feel and terrify its going to be of course i did go to januaro january but i also think it is being horribly expressed but we are living in a really important moment. it is a moment that is certainly not just about cover the clinton.ff i have a particular passion for this kind of stuff even though i know how limited it is and it symbolic value. the democratic party nominated the man who became the first african-american president and has now nominated the first
woman to be nominated for president. there will be a lot of people behaving cheaply.it's also also if you like this kind of a rhetorical battle for what direction the country is going and it's one of the times where these figures that are so insufficient in terms of what they represent are standing in for bigger battles we are having about are we going to be a kind of country that will move towards greater inclusion slowly and perfectly as we always have work do we not want to move forward, do we want to move back and it's obvious and i'm shocked by how obvious it is and by what i saw this week in a good way and it says something positive about this election. my first book was about hillary clinton, michelle obama.
i a am an imbecile and ambivaley clinton person. i wrote and have a lot of feelings about her. but one of them was my relatives are surrelativeassuredness thate time to have it out of they primary into the general she would be one of the things which is moved to the center which is traditionally the candidates do after the primary they move tono the center. i've seen her do this and i wasn't looking forward to it. the first speech she gave was the one yesterday. the first is a general candidate unofficial, sorry, presumptive, sorry bernie. she gave it to planned parenthood which in itself is tremendous because i've been a member of the democratic party
as long as i can vote and i've watched by democratic politicians i've admired not say the word abortion in any away context, including hillary clinton herself and many otheru- democrats run away from it and talk about what is a sad and tragic choice. i've seen the parties strategize as a thing to trade on to get other broad progressive legislation through. so the idea that moving into the candidacy of first speech will be at planned parenthood, i was already pretty startled. everybody should read that speech or watch it because not only is it at planned parenthood where she uses the word abortion many times, she talks up thethen connection between women's ability to control their reproduction and how reproductive rights and access are connected to minimum wage, paid leave, subsidized childcare to gun culture to systemic racism and then she is layingti
out what is essentially the reproductive justice platform and then she thinks the advocates and acknowledges she's not the person that came up with this idea which isn' is somethig that i've always expect absolutely clinton. not as an activist this is one of the finest speeches by the mainstream democratic politicians let alone one that is running in the election for the presidency making clear how women's ability to control their body and reproduction is key to their economic social familial fami professional freedoms and opportunities. what if this isn't going to look just the way i assumed it was going to look, which is the depressing thing that we all want to get through until we're in january and, hopefully, i mean, god willing donald trump
isn't our president. [laughter] so anyway, i do, i guess i want to stay awake. >> that's a nice, optimistic note. [laughter] [applause] i like it. all right. questions? >> well, my name is gary leavitt. some years ago i went to a lecture by a lady at the university of chicago as a member of the public. i commented how i liked the pictures in -- [inaudible] penthouse more than playboy. gloria steinem's book has interestingly, i think, a picture of her from years ago. there is this thing of beauty that's important. it's really. everyone doesn't have it. i saw the movie 50 shades of grey, anger contaminated my sexuality when i was growing up. i didn't know what it meant, but why is it that i can see a dominatrix that i need to in almost every major city but not a sexual surrogate who can help
me not die a virgin? rush limbaugh would make fun of that. oh, he made fun of -- >> [inaudible] >> my question is, how do you feel about my sincere statements? >> i think we'll take another question. [applause] >> good afternoon, panelists. so i have a question that's not about me or my personal drama. [laughter] my name is jennifer cross, i'm the lead organizer for just right chicago, and my question is directed mainly to lashonda. i was the one who was raised in a pentacostal background, so i have a lot of internalized -- [inaudible] that i am fighting. so my question is how do you promote the obvious elevation of black men and latino men who are suffering at the hands of our prison industrial complex and capitalism but at the same time
make sure that the voices of women of color, of lgbtqia members who are women or female representing or not male representing are also not silent? how do you balance that? >> that is a beautiful question. it's a very deep question. when i, i teach women's history, and when i've taught women's history, i try teach from all angles. it's a balancing act, as you -- i don't know if the camera caught you, but as you were demonstrating with your hands, it's exactly that. you know, when civil rights movement and black power movements, for example, are taught they are almost always taught with men as the heroes. and it doesn't even have to be something socio-political. we can look at something as wonderful and entertaining as jazz. and when people talk about jazz, they're always hauling out the male masters of the instrument. so women are always sort of backseated in any socio-political discussion because reproductive labor --
and by that i do not mean making children, i mean the reproductive labor, it's a term that women's historians use which means keeping the household going, domestic labor -- women's work has historically and traditionally always been diminished, always been minimized. and so in these conversations that i found myself in when i am on the side of men it always seems like i'm then not allowed to talk about the depravations that women are experiencing. so we have to continue to fight just, you know, make sure we can address the needs of women and children. it's got to be a holistic conversation. that's what womanism is about. read lubiano, they give some really wonderful, third-world feminists -- third world i'm putting quotes around -- they have some really wonderful insights on how to expand the conversation. >> okay. i was wondering if the other panelists could chime in that's possible. >> same question.
>> or should i repeat my question? [laughter] >> yeah. i got so caught up in the -- >> okay. well, because i was wondering how do we do that balancing act? how do we make sure that our voices are not silenced but also make sure that the needs of male-representing folk of multiple marginalizations also get heard and get what they need? >> i mean, just -- i don't know, what do you think? [laughter] >> you know what? i do have a concrete response to. that i'm in conversation at the university of chicago on june the 21st with charlene curt thers who is the -- ca rutters. a wonderful organization that is looking at lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender activism but also looking at working with the black lives matter movement. certainly giving a voice to
heterosexual black men, you know? it's a wonderful model for how all groups can come together and inspire each other and work towards some of the same ends simply by getting together ask talking to each other and recognizing each other. visibility matters. >> i also don't think you need to feel like if you spend time on yourself and advocating for yourself and working toward your, you know, toward issues that affect you specifically that you are abandoning anyone, or that you are doing a disservice to other groups. you can do both, you know? and it's important to focus on yourself sometimes. >> and i'm not sure that there is one answer. a lot of the things that we're talking about sort of go toward this point. there may not be a solution that allows you to strike the balance that you want, but that you can invest and engage in all kinds of different struggles and work toward making things more equal. and you are, if you're asking these questions, you're already doing the work of balancing, right? if you're already considering
how does a voice are not get -- how does my voice not get drowned out, how do i work for other people but not let my work for other people in some way silence or diminish my own role here, these are questions that i think resonate throughout all kinds of social movements that we're in process on right now. and the fact that you're asking them means that you're already answering your own question, you're already doing a lot of that.