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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  August 4, 2016 10:15am-12:16pm EDT

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>> that's her job roland. nisi, thank you sir. >> roland. there you go. [laughter] secretary, ice-t, cvs in dallas texas area i cover the second largest public-school institution in the state of texas, that an independent school system and the surrounding districts. you mentioned briefly with roland in a dialogue about charters that there are other kinds of programs as an educator the way schools are focused now on having specialized education, academies andvanguards and etc. , what happened to focus on it? comprehensive schools in everybody's neighborhood, every school day where the vast majority of children reside, are they in 10 schools in their neighborhood? mediocrity is plentiful as you pointed out in charters but what happened to the
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dedication of my neighborhood schools? >> as you look across the country, i don't have an example of neighborhood schools that are doing quite well and examples of schools are struggling. i do think there is value in parents and communities being able to have choices around schools that might need a particular need or ambition that a child may have so if the school that sparks focus and i think of that las vegas arts academy based on granny's and just phenomenal arts programs because they are able to provide an arts focused education the wide but in those opportunities are important, the two things that i think should be our north star is every child deserves an excellent education and to the extent that we have schools thatfall for that we have responsibility, state and district and federal governments to improve it . the second is , i do think we should think about where there are opportunities to create diverse school environments and that they
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require thinking about the neighborhood a bit more broadly . the president proposed $120 million for an initiative called together that would accelerate local bonds, local volunteer efforts to create diverse schools as we look across the country we see so many places where schools are more segregated today by race and class than they were 10 or 15 years ago and so i think there's a conversation we need to have as a country around how we value divers the in schools and also about housing cost because in many places the housing policies set in motion incredible racial and class segregation and we ought to be thinking about how we challenge those housing costs. >> what you are talking about is institutional racism that right there. time for one more question. >> girl, don't get cocky. >> i'm going to go to a person behind me, we have not done this. if you are a founder in a bj would you please stand up?
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i'm a believer, you've got to recognize your founders. [applause] okay. >> thank you founders. >> let me say this again, these are the people that founded the organization that made it possible for you to sit in this hotel. that's all i'm saying. >> joe davidson. >> joe davidson from the washington post. in the previous panel we heard that in philadelphia there's a number of school-based arrest by about two thirds. does the department of education have any programs or policies designed to reduce or eliminate school-based and what part does an implicit bias play in those arrests. >> i appreciate the question. we have an initiative called rethink which is an initiative of the department
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but also part of the president initiative which is focused on expanding opportunities to all systems but particularly boysand young men of color . in that discipline we are providing technical assistance and support to districts to rethink their school discipline policies, you are right, we have places that use rs as a strategy for responding to school discipline, or criminalizing misbehavior in schools. it is a driver of the schools pipeline, we also see disproportionate suspension of kids of color, our recent civil-rights data collection survey data shows that in pre-k, african-american students are more than three times as likely to be suspended as white students pique , in k-12 is nearly 4 times as likely to be suspended, part of it i do think isaround training and professional development . teachers have alternatives to exclusionary discipline principles, having alternative.
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part of it is about bias, when you look at those freaking numbers i don't think you can think about it any other way than to say that folks are treating the same here from a white student differently from an african-american student and it's a problem for african-american boys and girls as well. latino students as well. but we also have a resource problem, one of the things revealed in our civil-rights data collection is we have 1.6 million kids who go to a school that has a law enforcement officer and no school counselor. so what are we setting up when we have that dynamic that there's no one in school who has their focus on kids emotional development but there is someone in schoolwho can arrest you? so we got to think about issues of resource equity . to me, to just ask something of the room, i think these are the kinds of issues, the equity issues that manyof you have written about were
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focused on and i just ask you to do more of that . i don't think the general public understands well enough the degree to which there is this school to prison pipeline. i don't think the general public understands the obstacles to education for our highest needs students, homeless students, foster youth and i don't think the general public understands well enough the challenges of kids in the state that got involved in the juvenile justice system or in the adult prison , the obstacles to ever getting our fair shopping education i'm telling the stories about inequity but also telling the stories about places that are doing it right and making positive changes, we just desperately need more of that and i appreciate that you all do that and iask you to keep . >>. [applause] >> i want to say thank you to the secretary for coming in speaking with us, we did this for a lot longer but we got about five more panels to go. secretary, thank you so much.such a pleasure, thank you.
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[applause] >> academy star jesse williams steals the dep award with his speech on civil rights. >>if you have no interest in equal rights for black people that don't make suggestions to those who do . >> tonight to celebrate athletes started instead with lebron james issuing a challenge to them. >> it's time to look in the mirror and ask ourselves what are we doing to create change? the ill of gun violence in places like chicago, dallas, not to mention orlando, it has to stop. enough. let's use this moment as a call to action for all professional athletes. >> we're figuring it out,
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just wanted to get you backstage what's in front of the stage.they're like, no. you guys, are you with me? joanne and i are like, we're playing musical chairs. we're going to stand. you want to stand over there and i'm going to stand over here.i just will fall on top of you know falling. >> a roland, how are you doing? in recent weeks , you just saw the celebrity ... she can sit wherever she wants to. okay. we are going to get started. >> you can set. >> i will sit. this is called stage management on the fly. roland always starts taking control, look at roland. thank you very much. all right, we're joined now,
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we have to get started quickly because ray has to be out of your quickly so do ray mckesson of black lives matter, we don't have mike lamont hill baton rouge activist arthur reed is on the end and then we have temple university assistant besser nicole clean we're going to talk about the social justice acts of all of these, we've been talking about education and policing, let's start with you nicole because you in many ways did break the look on mcdonald's story. it was one of those stories that was more than a year in the making, 18 months between the video coming into the knowledge of the department, the police department in chicago and it was resulting in action on prosecution. why do you suppose the art of justice seems to bend so slowly for justice in these cases? >> to all the young folks out here, i've seen so many students and i actually started investigating the
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criminal justice system and the court physically when i was 21 years old and i went undercover as an academic but also as a person that was just amazed at the level of racism, late racism in the system and i pass as white because in those environments i was a light-skinned econo and i as long as i can talk with talk assumed me to be white and disclosed an abusive racist culture where defendants were known as moats which is basically the n-word recoded . they talk in bonnets to mock the senate and in those spaces people lose rights and dignity so when police officers violated people's rights, planted drugs on them, it was an overt practice that was just happening in one of the issues i tried to speak on is to stop seeing police abuse of power as assistant in isolation. these are systems that are independent and needy to function and certainly prosecutors and judges were mostly white professionals are complicit in that and it
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therefore emboldens what we see in the streets, it's only one part so as journalists i heard everybody to continue bearing witness and not just in this one place, to step back and get that 30,000 view of the system to see who is complicit in abuse of power and racism. >> arthur, you're coming out of baton rouge where we see the fermentation on the other side shooting of police officers, we are starting to see i guess the two-sided coin, right, of the social justice movement where in the sterling case there seemed to be clear abuse of power, at least from what we were able to see in what was after on that video. but there's also a sense of futility that goes with that, it doesn't necessarily point you some of it and that's where a lot of frustration is coming from, talk about that it. >> when we look at the eric brand take, we look at the walter scott tate and the
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alton sterling case, basically what you have to admit is most of these cases, we can't get these individuals to be held for accountability and you look at the criminal justice system, that's exactly what it started out to be now, but justice system being run by a bunch of criminals so when we look at bats, we have to keep pushing those issues and you know, because they say justice is blind, sometimes blind people have to be led so we are trying to lead them toward what they need to do and making sure they know these individuals accountable when they break the law because officers can break the law, however not being held accountable for what they are doing the ray, we are now at least two years into what they are calling this aspect movement, black lives matter is a country thing but also a hashtag that anyone can get involved in what is a movement but also a loser femoral toward a feeling that a lot of people,
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and outcry from people. has it made a difference? has actually changed anything over the course of the last few years? >> i think it definitely has and the last time i saw him, we were in jail together and ruth so i said i know you. [laughter] >> how this need. so when i the last year, is while we are coming up on two years since mike was killed in st. louis and i think about protesters idea of telling the truth in public and that's what we did. we use our bodies to tell the truth that much of the alive and yet and phil and o and many other people and when i think about the hashtag, the hashtags are another way that people tell the truth and i'm mindful that sometimes we fess up and i will never criticize people for telling the truth and i think we would scene with the media is that two years ago people were questioning the police. people were like if the police that it, it is true and now people are applying the media lens what the police see and this was not
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happening two years ago and i think this is helpful. in the activist state is important we continue focusing on solutions. i think it's easy to talk about the problem over and over, it's harder to talk about solutions in public and i think we have to start doing that more than we do . >> nicole, talk about your experiences in chicago. these are not just what you are seeing in certain communities but how the police managed a very diverse and very segregated city. and you know, i live part time in chicago, i'm a chicago girl myself, south side. wow, that was ... >> a little more robust. >> you think about what's happening in terms of police community relationships and add to that the latino elements of the conversation.
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what do we need to be talking about there? >> one of the interesting things that happened, i was speaking about the leconte mcdonald case and there was a terrible shooting shortly after new year's where people, it was a domestic violence call and the cops shop people requesting help so in some ways communities are getting it on both ends. they are absolutely terrorized by certain beat officers in certain communities and it's pretty much out of sight and out of mind of the rest of the city of chicago and then when they need help, the responsiveness is not there so i think we need to, i title my book county because the people actually made the system cook county because they can't establish between who the gang members are and who the prosecutors, judges and police officers are. they don't know who is a criminal and when we lose legitimately i think we had issues of violence, we have these other issues that era in addition to the social neglect that communities are facing due to segregation but it's going to take a disruption of that police culture, moving officers around, holding them accountable . the public holding them accountable . the changes are starting but certainly we are not there
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yet. >> we just saw the republican national convention cheer when officers were acquitted. this polarization of "black lives matter," has it hampered the ability of activists like yourselves, to get your message through, because, certain percentage of country is no longer listening?
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>> the movement is young. i would say there is broad consensus about the problem. people have seen videos. some of the videos are indefensible, right? there is potentially disagreement about what solutions look like. that is what we need to talk about, think about some people think body cameras are another form of surveilance. some people think body cameras could be form of change. they're looking at department to look at audio from body cameras, so we can check on aggression pretrauma and not look like video post-trauma. that is interesting way to look at solutions. i think there is broad consensus. people detractors of the movement are people who are afraid of traction the movement is having, which is why they are trying to hard to defend the status quo. >> arthur, along those same lines, how much has to be a conversation about quite frankly the unions, the labor unions, are the first to defend these
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officers in these cases. they came out very quickly with alton sterling, the representative of the police unions. we don't really talk about their role in this but as an activist do you confront and deal with those unions and their pushback against calls for change? >> actually what is happening, when you see these unions it is like, if you can use annalgy of my bigger brother overseeing what i have done. and he has the same mind-set that i have. so you tell him, did you see anything wrong with what your brother did? knows. so we have to start looking at putting the proper people in place and making sure keep that straight. just, to close on that, i wanted people to know because she travel adlong ways, the mother of alton sterling is here today. she is going through a lot. [applause] she is here? >> she is there. going through a lot, because tomorrow will make one month and we have to keep fighting these things. we definitely do.
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we have to keep fighting these things. >> absolutely. absolutely. with that, we'll end the panel. deray, catch the train. give another round of applause. thank you very much to the moms, alton sterling's moms. we appreciate you, arthur reid and professor nicole gonzalez, and i am going to move and you may have the seat, my dear. >> really. >> for your panel. the seat is yours. >> bye, deray. nice to see you. i meet up with deray in the strangest places of the last time it was colorado. okay, so the national headlines end up, we all end up consuming them but we obviously start with our local newsrooms. so we're going to move now to have a conversation with our local newsroom journalists. we're joined by terry, the news
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director for univision in chicago. art holiday, who is a ksdk-tv anchor in st. louis. andre brooks, executive producer of kktv in dallas. [applause] i will start with you, terry. we've been speak about chick embow. so kind -- chicago. how long have you been the news director? >> news director for three years now. >> three years? >> yes, three years. >> they have been a pretty intense three years. so when, let's just take the situation with the laquan video for example. what was your policy, what did you decide to do, knowing what you were going to have in your hands, what you would have to put on the news and understanding the role that you play within a city like chicago? what kinds of decisions were going through your head? >> well leading up to the point of the video, right, we had no idea what was on the video.
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so we as a newsroom came together and kind of sort of imagined what would be there, right? as soon as the video came out, we made a decision not to show the last point of impact when he fell, to respect the last moment of death. you needed to see there were 17 of shots of a person walking awe way. so those were some intense moments. every newsroom had that. whether it was in spanish language or english language, for us in spanish language what we needed to do was, you know, they say a picture tells a thousand stories, right, or is worth a thousand words. you saw an african-american on camera but the story wasn't about an african-american. it is about what you were talking about. that interest was a systemic, culture of silence within the police department, abuse against hispanics as well, and again i
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don't want to lump every single police officer as a bad person but there was a culture and there is a culture within chicago in general where transparency doesn't exist, getting, having come from florida, this was shocking to me how difficult it is to get any type of public record. so, i think as a newsroom, what we did was, we need to speak to our audience. our audience was a spanish-speaking audience. these are police officers that patrol our neighborhoods. this is, let's go get some cases where there have been similar abuse against hispanics, so that, i was afraid that the audience would feel, oh, that is their story. and it wasn't ours, right? so, we covered that. and then as well as the, i think, it is interesting to see what's happened in terms of political fallout. we've seen anita alvarez was voted out. we've seen, so, i really, after
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having been here for three years and seeing how really nothing was getting done, and feeling extremely frustrated, the fact that we've seen -- got rahm emanuel gotten some heat. a new police chief who is african-american. it has been, it has been very interesting in that sense and kind of, why we do what we do, right? it is to create change, catalyst of change. seeing the fact that something is being done kind of give meese some hope. >> andre, in dallas you obviously had to make pretty intense choices just recently. what has the conversation been like for you? suddenly dallas is part of the national dynamic. i mean dallas is front and center, and i think a lot of people, even in my newsroom, somebody said something like, you know, it is dallas. hmmm, do you remember half a million i immigrants came out to
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protest 10 years ago in dallas? it's a difficult dallas. take us through your newsroom the last couple weeks. >> from my newsroom, most important thing we learned is two words, looking at transparency and looking at accountability. having a relationship with our local police department so we can allow them to be transparent with us, and so that we can particularly be transparent how we deliver our content. i think the biggest challenge for us over the past few weeks, is, not just horrific it is, but, telling the stories of the people that this happened to. obviously you have stories of the officers that were impacted but the first conversation that we had in our newsroom was, how, why did this happen? what's the mode like, the tone of our communities? our police chief is also african-american. so why, why particularly did this happen here? what is the relationship we have with our local police departments where we can say, how do we figure out a solution?
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how can we help the police departments build stronger relationships with us so we can be transparent for them. and you know, hold them accountable for when things do go wrong. i think that is the most important thing. you know when you talk about accountability it is not just releasing a press release saying, okay, this happened but getting up in front of whoever it is, whether it is the police chief, whether it is the mayor, whether it is your attorney general saying, why did this happen? how did this happen? what do you have to say to this particular family about you're going to insure this doesn't happen again? >> art, to that very point, st. louis, after ferguson, there was a time period with both the ferguson police department and st. louis police department were being proactive, getting out whenever there was shooting incident and holding immediate press conference and trying to make a show of that they were open to being more transparent. i'm wondering over time how that relationship has evolved,
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whether or not the police department has become more reticent? has a bit more paranoid the way it deals with the press? whether that openness continues? as i ask that question i will make a note, a friend of mine who used to be the pio you probably know very well in miami, is a fantastic communicator, happens to be is now the police chief in ferguson. so i think he is good at it, but in general do you find the police department is more reticent to deal with the media post-ferguson? >> you know i think it varies. it is a great question. specifically moss, a couple of weeks ago, my assignment, after our morning editorial meeting was to try to do a story about the challenge of recruiting new recruits in the current climate that we find ourselves in, and i was directed to try to contact moss in ferguson, speak to the st. louis county police department, st. louis city department.
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none of them wanted to cooperate with the story. >> yeah. >> so i think it varies. you know, initially when moss took over in ferguson, he was doing a lot of media. now he is kind of pulled back. and it seems to be a bit of a strategy. i'm not sure, you know, why that is, but, you know, i'm sure he has his reasons. certainly he has his hands full, and maybe his time, maybe he considers his time better spent doing his job rather than dealing with the media, although it, obviously be argued that, you know communicating with the public, through the media is going to go a long way toward, you know, getting to where they want to be in ferguson. >> when, yeah. just to wrap up, when you guys are making your decisions in terms of your local coverage, i just would like each one of you to leave us, as we close this segment, with the thing that is primary on your mind, as you're making decisions about the story that you're going to cover, what
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you're going to lead with, the images that you are going to show. what is the primary thing on your mind as you're making those decisions. let's start with you, art, come back this way? >> well, i think one of the challenges, let's talk about the issue of violence, many of us as reporters have to deal with. how do you tell that story in meaningful way? how do you avoid crime without context? it is easy to go out to the crime scene and get the shots and get the crime tape and police officers standing around. it is much more challenging to get behind the headlines, provide some context, tell some personal stories. so those are the daily challenges that we face every day, is trying to come up with a different way of telling these stories that happen over and over and over again. three people shot, four people shot. five people shot. a lot of us are dealing with that. how do you figure out a way to
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engage the audience because, we have become desensitized because this is happening on a daily basis in many of our cities. >> andre, real quick, one minute left. >> i think for me there is two things. there is innovation and there's people. first thing goes through my mind as a manager, especially executive producer when i'm trying to plan out our day, what do the people want to know? people tell good stories. so i want to go out into the community and find stories that impact people and the broader audience and that's the thing i tell my producers. that is what my management preaches, that is particularly my management style. i want to engage our audience, but want to engage them with their stories. not just dictate we decide what we want to cover. >> terry, real quick. >> echo a little bit what they're saying we often times, i tell them, just don't do the who, what, where, and do so what and how or the why these things happened.
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i think you can do that in the daily spot news but then you also, and it is why we developed a investigative team to tell the stories, to take a step back to give it into bigger context. >> thank you so much for the panel giving the local perspective. teddy, andre, and art holiday, thank you so much. [applause] now my question is, do we actually have, angela, do we have a clip here? do we have clip or going right into the panel? is there a clip or going right into the panel? >> so the other big topic of course is immigration. we are joined now by two incredible reporters actually. i'm really thrilled to have you both here. fred corchado and cindy are award-winning journalists that cover immigration. joy, do you want to start us off? >> go for it. i will jump in. >> the three of us have been covering this, well, you and i,
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for a long time. and i guess, alfredo for you -- >> talk about the wall. >> you want to talk about the wall? first of all the wall is just like, it is already built. actually latino usa will do a full hour on the wall. you know 10 years ago they built the wall? already. and by the way, boeing corporation got $28 billion to build the cyber wall. where did $28 billion go? and, so, you want to talk about the wall. why? >> i wear many hats. aside from the dallas morning news i'm also director of border lands at arizona state university, cronkite school of journalism. we spent the last three or four-month traveling from nogales to tijuana, to mat amoras. first poll more than 15 years, asking people on the border,
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this is campaign season. people on border are used to being the pinata when it becomes to campaign. you hit the pinata, see poll numbers go up. every time donald trump says build a wall, the room goes ecstatic. we want to ask people questions, do we need a wall? as maria was saying, we've had, i think, there is only like 700 miles left that is not walled up. vast majority of the people, 76% on the u.s. side said no, we don't need a wall. wall is not important. more than 80% of the mexican side. these are 10 million people living along the u.s.-mexico border. what is interesting that people, in spite of what politicians say that people feel insecure, there are terrorists coming in, these are historic lows of illegal immigration coming in from the south. zero migration coming in. people feel they need much more bridges, less walls. they want to be much more
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united, dependent on one side or the other. majority of people would like a system where people can go back and forth legally. more and more the european model. >> let me interrupt you. how is it possible that right now in the united states that we have basically zero migration? and that you have a presidential candidate basically one of his main party platform positions is to stop the crisis of immigration? yet it is zero? i mean, what is, are we not doing our jobs well? is the public not listening? where is the disconnect? >> that's a great question and that is what led us to want to do the poll. why are we hearing this rhetoric? there is big disconnect. there is a lot of, i mean immigration is a very, very difficult issue, very complex issue to cover. maybe, cindy you can. >> cindy. >> well, yeah, i think, you know even though, we have net zero
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immigration, you do still have unauthorized immigration. it is still happening but although a little different now. you're having it from places like central america. and children who are coming on unaccompanied is, something that i have been focusing a lot of my stories on lately, which i think it's a phenomenon and people are puzzled. don't know why these children are coming. media what we have tried to do, at least what i tried to do is at least inform people to go to the countries, you're having exodus of children to find out what is happening. you have overwhelming violence in some of these countries es special honduras and el salavador. not even like about pull anymore in central america. it is a push. they're fleeing. they're escaping. gang recruitment. i think it's a different kind of
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migration of some sort of ways. you still have it but you're right, it is not the numbers that you used to see a few years ago at all. and i think it is kind of interesting about, i for a while was in arizona and i was on the southwest border reporter there. i remember writing a story about there is this town in arizona where people actually felt invaded but not by illegal immigration. by border patrol. and, they felt like their, their area, where they were living was being militarized. they did not like it. so i think it is really interesting. i think it is very complex, issues, issue of immigration, especially along the border, it is very complex and very misunderstood. >> my question as a child of two immigrants, who lives in a community in brooklyn, new york, chockful of immigrants, most of them not latino, with today's political reporting the wife of
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the would-be republican president of the united states might have exploited the hb 1 visa system to come here, perhaps not quite legally. i wonder in the newsrooms who are not late teen no, not covering immigration and covering broader spectrum? because there are white and black immigrants who also sometimes come in without documents? i wonder if people in the newsrooms are covering that? >> i'm latina. i cover immigration issues for "the los angeles times." we have a whole team of people who cover immigration in different ways. for instance, we have people in our d.c. office here who cover immigration, from, you know, from a bigger point of view, more of a policy goal. we have molly hennessey fisk, who is in texas because she covers a lot of immigration issues. that is one of the major places for immigration right now. we have someone in arizona as well.
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we try to pitch in to do what we can. >> are we segregating as latinos as only people to be feared in terms of illegal migration but when it is much broader ethnic story? >> yes, it is a broader story. we in our newsroom, no, we don't have any other people -- well, no, we do. we have, we have frank sean who covers immigration from asian countries, from asia. you're right, we could do a better job, definitely. we could always do a better job, i agree. >> why do we think, both of you, and joy as well, why do we think that given the fact that our country is clearly incredibly diverse in terms of immigration, that we're still stuck on these very basic narratives that haven't, you know, i know that my entire career has been trying to move the needle but on a national scale still.
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what's your sense why we're still reduced to this very simplistic notion, it is just mexican immigrants and they're all hopping a fence? we know it is much more complex. it is a huge question, alfredo, i struggle with it. i'm not sure why we keep on going in this circle? >> opportunity for shameless plug. any minute now we're going to start a panel discussion to talk about immigration. virginia, you're all welcome to come. that we'll talk about complexities, why after two, three decades covering this, why does this remain? my very first job los angeles examiner and later "wall street journal" it was about immigration and 30 years later talking about the same issue. so we can -- >> maria is no different from a black -- greatest of affirmative
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action is white women. it is easy. 600,000 black folks from caribbean, indian west indies, and africa don't see the faces. easy, make it latino thing and white thing it is simple. media are simple-minded people. >> easy to pick on people who don't vote basically. >> i think we are actually out of time for this panel. so i think we're going to thank our panel but we want to remind you guys this discussion will continue. three very important workshops are taking place immediately after this plenary session. this will be in virginia b. we have education forum taking place in maryland a. and maria, i think, immigration is virginia b. local news will be in virginia a as well. >> education in maryland a. >> all right. i want to give one more announcement, before you guys go, i want to bring the president of the national
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association of hispanic journalists and sarah glover, president of the national association of black journalists. back up to the dais to make a final announcement. and thanks to our wonderful panel. >> thank you, guys. thank you for sticking around. thank you. [applause] >> good morning, everyone. i hope you got enough coffee in you this morning. we're on cup four. we should be perky enough for you this morning. we want to make a special announcement about our big events tomorrow, which is of course the hillary clinton events that will be here tomorrow afternoon. >> last night, or overnight an email went out prematurely about an rsvp system for access to the event and we are actually
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recalling that email. there will be a clear communication, that will bo out in email shortly and the email reservation time will be 3:00 p.m. and that will enable everyone to have access to the information and respond in their rsvp if you're interested in attending. so it is unfortunate email went out prematurely. certainly apologize for any inconvenience. we look forward to getting information out to everyone so you may participate. [applause] >> around 12:00, look for email about the process. 3:00 in the afternoon the email for actual registration. we hope to see you all there. thank you very much. >> thank you. ♪ >> c-span will have coverage of the democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton's
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visit with nabj and nahj, tomorrow. you can watch interviews again with attorney general lynch, education secretary king and the panel discussion starting later today on our website, c-span.org. >> on saturday, c-span's issues spotlight looks at police and race relations. we'll show president obama at the memorial service for five police officers shot and killed in dallas. >> when the bullets started flying, the men and women of the dallas police, they did not flinch and think did not react recklessly. >> south carolina republican senator tim scott giving a speech on the senate floor about his own interactions with police. >> but the vast majority of the time i was pulled over for nothing more than driving a new car in the wrong neighborhood, or, some other reason just as
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trivial. >> our program also includes one family's story about an encounter with police in washington, d.c. followed by a panel with the city's police chief, kathy lanier. >> most people get defensive if they feel like you're being offensive. being very respectful, you know, in encounters and requests, if it is not a crisis, if it is not a dangerous situation, requests, versus demands, those things change the die florida i -- dynamic as little bit. >> watch the spot on police and race relations saturday on c-span and c-span.org. >> this from the "cleveland plain-dealer." former congressman member, steve latourette, known for moderate brand of republican politics and irreverent brand humor died after a battle with pancreatic cancer. he was 62. former congressman, dennis
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kucinich, cleveland democrat, working with latourette working with jobs in steel mills and diverting rail traffic from residential areas. in this time of polarization in america, steve provided an example of what could be done when your party is your lesser concern, said kucinich. you can read more at cleveland.com. house speaker paul ryan tweeting out this morning, all of us will miss our friend and colleague, steve latourette. nobody could match his fierce sense of duty or his great sense of humor. >> tonight an q&a -- on q and amount. he provides his thoughts on the documents that provided greatest impact on the world. from the magna carta and declaration of independence to
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martin luther king, jr.'s, "i have a dream" speech. and wikileaks. that starts at 7:00 p.m. eastern time. and on booktv in prime time, race in america. 8:00 p.m., carol anderson, white rage, the unspoken truth of racial divide. . .
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>> government abuse is arguably one-sided. i think there's a couple of reasons. when i started this i care about free speech. i'm a bit of a libertarian when it comes to this. i have no allegiance to one party or the other. i went into this, i'd written a lot about the abuses on the left for my column in "the wall street journal" bad i assumed i would find a whole bunch of stuff on the right. i didn't.
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>> go to booktv.org for the complete weekend schedule. >> violent extremism in africa
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is on the rise according to the other secretary of state sarah sewall. she was part of a discussion on u.s. efforts to counter religious extremism and countries across the continent. the center for strategic and international studies in washington, d.c. hosted this discussion. >> good afternoon, everyone. welcome to csis, and it's great to see you all here and welcome to our online audience as well. my name is jennifer cook. i dragged the africa program here at csis and i'm very pleased to see organizing and the institute, the commission international religious freedom at today's session on violent extremism, religious extremism in africa. looking at very, very response is on fat.
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through the course of the next few months the commission and csis will be hosting a small series of off the record roundtables, each one looking at different models, different places, different interlocutors and promising models, what has been missing from some of the endeavors to counter extremist ideologies within africa. we don't have africans at the table today. unfortunately, the ambassador was unable to join us. we hope we will have or at a later session. she's a really fantastic woman and very much devoted to this issue and to those critical issues of the education in all of this. but today we're really delighted to have the latest author, doctor sarah sewall who is the undersecretary for civil security, democracy and human
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rights at the state department. dr. phil has done previous work of the harvard kennedy school as director of the center for human rights, and the program on human rights and national security. she was a member of the defense policy board, deputy assistant secretary of state for peacekeeping and humanitarian assistance in the clinton administration. worked for senate majority leader george mitchell and was an oxford scholar sometime back. dr. sewall has been what of those voices within the state department that has seen persistent and consistent in making sure that this issue of countering violent extremism remains on the radar screen. it can be very easy to default into security measures when
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you're talking about east africa or the horn. i'm not saying that those are easy but a much more difficult part of all of this is in changing the social norms and the social interactions and the thinking and the hearts and minds and the grievances and frustrations of many of the young population who are drawn into some of these movements. it's critically important, particularly for the united states, not to reinforce the government minds, that i didn't really this is a military situation. i think you have been one of the voices that is kept that up and made that very clear to you as partners in the fight against this. i would like to turn to you. dr. sewall has agreed to offer a keynote, open up for some
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questions and then we will turn to a panel with terje ostebo, from the university of florida, department of religion, department of african affairs, department of islam. he keeps adding programs and departments. and tiffany lynch it is a senior advisor at the u.s. adviser at the u.s. commission on international religious freedom. first we will turn to dr. sewall then open it up for questions from the altar so welcome, and welcome dr. sewall. always nice to have you. >> thank you, jennifer, very, very much. thank you, richard and patricia kings at csis and that the u.s. commission on international religious freedom for bringing us together. as you probably know we at the state department rely on csis is world-class research and analysis to help us look around the corner and make sense of emerging issues.
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i'm really pleased that you have in conjunction with the commission taken on this really interesting topic of religious extremism in africa. as the project title implies, policymakers need to better understand both the religion affects issues of security and stability but equally important how to encourage and reinforce nonviolent public expressions of faith in their role in the public life, the social fabric and the political dialogue. so while so much of global attention has focused on syria and iraq, that's what comes to most people minds. in fact, regionally motivated, religiously motivated by the extremism is on the rise in africa. as will be similar to many of
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you as africa experts, it's not limited to one part of the continent. east africa, west africa, the south. so this is a really vital important still understood topic and thank you for taking it on. i'd like to start at the beginning by simply stating the obvious which is the freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, our bedrock principles of use experience and of u.s. foreign policy. and the united states favors no particular faith and within our own borders we, of course, embrace all religions. u.s. policy abhors the abuse of any ideology, not just religious ideology to justify violence or to violate universal rights. and u.s. policy also rejects the claim that specific religions are the cause of terrorism.
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as president obama has repeatedly stated we are not at war with islam. we are at war with the people who have perverted islam. so in africa and around the world religion compels many people to do inspiring good. my work is undersecretary one of the greatest privileges i've had these meeting people who have from all religious traditions been central to advancing the health and the strength and vitality of their own communities. it was last march when i traveled to a small island off the coast of tanzania. when i was there as often do i met with representatives from different local faith communities. this meeting had a particular impact because it was in this discussion that i learned what acid does to human beings face.
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the sheikh is more than a local imam in zanzibar. he sent institutions there. through tireless, thankful work for people in the committee making the unemployed to jobs, mentoring a youth, preaching tolerance and respect. and his face was really the face of islam, positive, hopeful, peaceful. when attackers hurled acid at him, they really shook the community to its core. extremist violence had come to zanzibar and allows publishers seeking to terrorize people in the name of the same religion the community have practice for centuries. his face was being reverted and reprinted elsewhere in africa violent extremism is linked to purported religious tenants. some examples, boko haram abducting young girls who have
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the audacity to want to learn. the lord's resistance army enslaving children to carry out horrific acts. rogue followers of traditional religions attacking people with albinism to traffic their body parts. and homophobic vitriol started in churches and mosques has inspired them to murder gave people in the streets. many violent extremists harness religious claims to cloak their depravity and to inspire and recruit followers. sadly acts of violence in the name of religion are as old as religion itself from so-called honor killing to wife burdens. but today what we see in the manifestations of these trends is novel and dangerous. it's the rise of organized, heavily armed nonstate actors that justify violence and ambitions with religious ideology.
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groups like the osha bob, local rom, al-qaeda in the modern and the color a. these groups threaten africa's every achievement and aspiration from economic growth to limit rights, health care and education. for africa's future of for global security, they must be defeated. that because was understand what allowed these groups to take root and to spread. obviously, we can't ignore the influence of violent extremist ideologies that inflame passions and dehumanize the other al-shabaab and boko haram both justify their brutality and twisted interpretations of philosophers him. in al-shabaab the leaders were indoctrinated in ultraconservative religious schools in the middle east. the elevated purported faith in tims award version of the 10 commandments at seeks to impose on others. when these groups invoke
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religion to spill blood and inspire followers you can't pretend religion has no role but obviously as was said at the outset our analysis cannot stop there because the story is far more complex and that's what we look forward to this joint work between csis and the commission to further unpacking. we know many other factors play a role in spurring people the files are making, susceptible to violate ideologies including religious ideologies. these factors are unique to local circumstances but they will also likely reflect broad themes we have seen globally. marginalization, poor or abusive governance, limited opportunity, these the discontent and dislocation. aqim for example, exploit a feeling of marginalization across northern bali to establish outposts of care. most of boko haram's followers
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hail from the historically neglected regions of northern nigeria. political and economic exclusion among the ethnic helped spark the color a in northern uganda. in many parts of africa vast ungoverned territories provide the extremist with areas to train, recruit. deep in the force of central africa, the lra and boko haram are fully to sustained evil at the safe havens from which they strike at wreak havoc on communities before melting away to recover and strike again. government incompetence and abuse also fans extremist violence. in east and west africa, corruption of extremists to pass themselves as pious alternatives. and symbolic visit anarchy in the making \90{l1}s{l0}\'90{l1}s{l0} led some to welcome al-shabaab promise of security and rule of law. unlawful and accepted forced by
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government often in the name of security can empower factions arguing violence isn't the only option left to change their plight. after the former nigerian government state of police brutality and extrajudicial killings, boko haram escalated its campaign of terror. similarly alleged abuses by the ethiopian military in somalia elevated al-shabaab by allowing the group to tout itself as a defender of the faithful. violent extremists are also unabated of the more recent trends linked to globalization like proliferation of communication and technology gives new platforms to call the followers, connect otherwise distant sympathizers and recruit beyond areas of physical contact. violent extremists are obviously benefiting from rapid population growth and industrial relations across africa leaving countless
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people, especially young people from villages seeking work in cities and try to make sense of their new place in a new economic and social order, and unfamiliar one. so adrift in these rapid changes, violate ideologies promising purpose, community and identity fight if you. compounded the problem, extreme weather events made worse by climate change, add to experiences of dislocation and discontent. all of these factors help in a broad sense to explain the emergence of violent extremist groups and they raise serious alarm about the probability of many committees across africa that are struggling directly with these issues. especially as they look for new foothold on the continent. the united states stands with africans to prevent the spread of extremist violence across the continent but a special in east
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africa and the sahel the u.s. is training and equipment for militaries, sharing intelligence and supporting police to enhance border security. these are the more well known and central elements of our counterterrorism approach in africa. but it's critical and i want to spend a few moments talking about the new and equally vital but still emerging complement to the counterterrorism approach which we call countering violent extremism, or cd. counterterrorism focuses on existing extremist threats. countering violent extremism seeks to prevent the next generation of threats from emerging. cve emphasizes governance, elevating issues of rights and the counterterrorism partnership. it calls on governments to embrace a do no harm approach which means working with security and police forces to end impunity for abuses, and
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betting public institutions with mechanisms for transparency and reforming prisons to separate patty criminals from violent ideologues. engagement around cve tenants works. after months of outreach by u.s. diplomats, the police chief in kenya began to openly question whether the practice of widespread indiscriminate roundups was, in fact, compounded the problem of violent extremism that he faced. the county commissioner told us we are trying to stop being firefighters. encouraging that shift can be hard because in the wake of extremist violence, let's and citizens want quick results and tough shows the force. this makes it easier to revert into the often negative patterns of overreaction that can compound the problem one is seeking to resolve.
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countries must push back against violent propaganda that extremist views to twist multiple lines. part of that work involves using these new tools that have exacerbated the spread of violent extremism in the first place. that can include parting with the tech committed to disrupt extremist excitement files on the internet, fighting content or accounts tied to known terrorists. but it can also mean helping amplify the voices of mainstream legitimate leaders to announce the fat fate of an insult to the deepest in. up to 90% of african say religion is very important in their lives. thank you for that. this is african religiously enormous influence. we cannot better equipped those leaders to use that influence by training imams use facebook, twitter a text messaging to reach a wider audience.
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we can help behind the scenes promote interfaith dialogue to address sectarian tensions that inflame cultural violence. we can certainly encourage other governments like morocco, which has a terrific regional initiative to train imams coming from all over the continent to help these religious clerics refute the violent perversions of islam with confidence in terms of their interpretations of text. these steps are all on board but alone they are insufficient because of violate ideologies and propaganda resonate people for a variety of reasons. it's not the ideology itself. it's who is drawn to the ideology and why. these ideologies may resonate
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because they offer a variety of different needs that are likely to be unique to local circumstances, unique to the individual person. we can't simply refute or ask others with more moral authority or authenticity or connections to the community, refute what violent extremists are offering to the horrible. we have to actually address some of those photos are help you address some of those vulnerabilities themselves. to take more empowering and offering steps to protect the vulnerable. this really is, there's a role for government but fundamentally this is a community focused activity. it's about supporting communities to unleash their own potential and find their own sources of resilience. the voice of the violent extremists try to fill our best
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tackled in town halls, schools and families. governments stifle society and sidelined communities sometimes in the name of again security and control, can't unwittingly sat the very power of the most promising actors in protecting the volvo at the local level. so governments again coming back to do no harm, need to lift any restrictions that have gone civil society and make sure that there is the freedom to both communicate and act at the local level along the lines of cve tenants. here again religious institutions and played a vital role. in africa especially where states are very weak in performing core government functions it's often religious institutions that fill the void, whether providing education or employment or financing directly to the vulnerable. these roles can be important in
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curbing radicalism. cve recognizes this and calls for active engagement with religious communities not just religious leaders who are often overwhelmingly male and not especially young but also seeking to engage those from the communities who are not across the authority figures. people like classmates, sisters and fears finding ways to engage with other young people in the context, and the umbrella of the cocoon of a faith community. women can play a vital role in or outside of the community. african women hold very few formal leadership roles but they are often for active members of the church and played in formal leadership roles in their communities. then women's rights and status come under attack it's often foreshadowing a broader shift towards radicalization and violence that should alert us to the potential for wider mobilization.
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i remember hearing in the anguish of one woman from a muslim community in tanzania, issues limiting she could barely recognize her face in the weekly sermon because the town had grown so hard like an exclusionary. sure enough this was the community that was in the process of becoming more radicalized, and ultimately creating real challenges. finally, se cve emphasizes strengthen ties between african governments and the communities they serve. things we take for granted, outreach by local officials, town halls, conversations between police departments and the neighborhoods they protect, these are uncommon throughout africa. in the absence it's hard to build cooperation and trust between citizens and government. by contrast when people come together it's harder for the
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violate groups to paint the picture of the enemy because the state itself is not and is familiar and it is the relationship. so that can be extraordinarily powerful for the state. the same principle holds true within communities themselves, the more it is dialogue around the problem, the less likely outsiders will be able to or extremists, will be able to characterize individuals or institutions as enemies. for example, went dozens of young kenyans were arrested are links to violent extremism, the parents, please and imams came together to develop a solution. the children were released but on the condition their parents out for their behavior and the intended weekly religious instruction. it was cooperation, trust and a little creativity to put the skids on a better path and save dozens of young lives among whooshing in jail where they may well have been recruited to a
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fuller status and a violent extremist group. so that's what the community level can do and what it can be effective. over the last two years the u.s. government has helped lead a shift towards this more localized and preventive approach to violent extremism. secretary kerry empowered the. of counterterrorism and countering violent extremism to embed this broader approach in the u.s. governments work. and may the state department and usaid released their first ever joint cve strategy outlining how to unite diplomatic and development tools. we've also stood up with global engagement centers that spearheads the messaging efforts. to seize the initiative in the battle for volvo parts and much primarily by working through more authentic nongovernmental voices. and in east africa i'm very proud of the pie the cve
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programs we've launched that hope will serve as a model for global see programming going forward to the counterterrorism partnership fund process. what i found when i traveled to africa was that we had a variety of programs scattered across the continent that were not connected to another and didn't have sort of strong series but they were brand scv programs. what we've done with east africa pilot is come together across our government to pool funds, to conduct extensive research collaboratively across the state department and usaid, working with posts to develop a common diagnosis of the problem, the threats, the vulnerabilities in the deciding a program to focus on key priority areas. doesn't try to do everything but in this area it takes a tailored approach to address the specific
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forces driving radicalism, radicalization to violence in the places that have been identified as most vulnerable. so this is really a breakthrough in terms of how the u.s. government thinks about the problem and pulls disparate actors together to provide more coherent solutions. it's early in stage yet. the program has not begun in full but it is so far exceeded our expectations in terms of the level of excitement that we have about the ability to show the effect of the cve programming. because it's targeted holistic and research driven work that we need to be doing in a world where there is so much risk of extremism. we need to be very careful about how we prioritize those efforts and we want to be able to show how and why those efforts have
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impact. at the global level the state department is helping foreign governments, international ngos and multilateral bodies help establish cve strategies as well as counter messaging center, other institutions to share best practices. the united nations has also taken up his cause. the u.n. secretary-general develop a comprehensive plan of action, individual u.n. agencies such as unesco and undp have mobilized come for example, to help teachers prevent radicalization to files with specific tools and curriculum, or helping african governments undertake cve programs to development assistance. just last month the u.n. general assembly endorsed recommendations from member states to strengthen their efforts. this suggests that the broader
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approach, the preventive approach, the positive approach that we have sought to articulate and no pilot within the u.s. government is, in fact, taking hold internationally although it is early days yet. but these holistic responses to the drivers and sources of violent extremism are really critical if we are to avoid constantly relying on military tools and reacting after the fact to violence. cve efforts recognize the limits of government but also the response of government. they bring governance and rights to the core of the counterterrorism conversation with a really have not been in the past and this can create tensions and difficult conversations but very important conversations that have to be happening as we seek to partners understand how state actions can inadvertently exacerbate violent
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extremism. we do have to be clear eyed about the challenges. i've painted, i've made the argument for why the cve as an important new dimension of american and international thinking and policy. but i want to offer a few cautions as well. first it takes time to change harmful government practices come to strengthen public institutions and repair trust between communities that have long been neglected by the state. second, there's no guarantee that research can fully disentangle the complex drivers of violent extremism. clearly a central to better use of resources but we don't yet have the perfect formula down. it's one of the reasons why i think the work you will be taking on is so important. in addition and to my dismay some international factors taken
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into humanitarian sphere sometimes appear reluctant to adapt their programming to address violent extremism as an issue. even as it threatens everything he americans work for from women's health and the power to economic develop to human rights. we have a little bit of a culture clash within that world to address. perhaps most important resources remained limited. last year united states spent less than $200 million on programs that we could describe as cve or grants. worldwide. that's less than the cost of one f-22 fighter jet. it's difficult to explain the magnitude of this problem. when you think about the level of attention that terrorism garners and the devastation it reflects globally, there is still an unfathomable have
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between what the world spins to combat existing threats and what it spends to prevent them. we are in the right direction but we still have a long way to go. go. as you all know foreign assistance itself is not a limitless resource lacking a constituency. within that, provincial to sometimes the hardest to gain political support for because when something doesn't happen it's harder to put your name on it and take credit. but this is all to see the strengthening, monitoring and evaluation is important to both research at the front end and the evaluation on the back and. we are very encouraged that bodies as diverse as a world bank, the world economic forum and the african development bank are starting to linda their expertise into this area so we can better make the case for these investments. there are also challenges and identifying and finding the right local partners on the ground. local groups and leaders with the greatest influence over the
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very demographic over communities that are most vulnerable are often very different partners than those with whom the development community or the state department for that matter traditionally works. that creates challenges in terms of identifying those partners and their supporters do not always want to work with other governments are received funding from other governments. additionally, the current law that prohibits material support for known terrorists can inadvertently prevent us from assisting those who are best positioned to help us prevent the spread of violent extremism. the group in kenya deradicalize and readability is al-shabaab fighters. their work is essential for peeling off of a faltering support and creating powerful voices to refute al-shabaab's lives. but under existing law, they would have to exhaustively itemized every single expense to confirm that u.s. funds provided
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no direct assistant to former al-shabaab fighters. that's simply not how this organization is set up to function. and, of course, the best position on the ground really have the means for reporting budgeting for administration that will allow them to apply for and administer international funding. we have to look closely at these very practical issues as well to figure out a better partner with third parties locally on the ground. i want to put in a plug for the global community engagement and resilience fund, which is now piloting programs in nigeria, mali and soon kenya, because they're seeking to do just that, in a global consortium that can receive funding from a variety of sources. one of the other ways in which we're seeking to help strengthen communities is due networks of communities. so, for example, to resolve network which stands for
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researching solutions to violent extremism connects local researchers who are studying the drivers of fun extremism in their communities and connects them to national and international organizations that can partner with them. we've also have launched a strong cities network that can help municipalities, cities in kenya, senegal sure lessons about what works and what doesn't work in identifying and responding to violent extremism. so both at the government level and at the committed love and that love of individuals and networks globally we have been trying to build support for this broad new preventive approach. this is really a struggle to protect communities across africa. i consider it humanitarian work in its purest form because the damage wrought by violent
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extremism measures not simply in the blood that the extremists build but the investment they deter, the textbooks they burn, the women and girls that they enslave, and the vast human potential that they squander. it's really important to have met people like the sheikh because it's really easy to look at the scope of the problem and think my goodness, how do we start? how do we make a dent? but he is an example of extraordinary resilience. even after acid neutralized his face and terrorize his kindred he insisted on tolerance and respect add-on continuing to build peace. he was hungry for answers as to why this is happening in the committed himself to answering those questions. we have to stand with him and with leaders across africa are struggling to do the same thing over half of their communities
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and to protect the soul of their religious beliefs. and at the same time with reject framing the problem of violent extremism solely as one of religious ideology. not simply because it pits religions against one another but because it misses the broader picture that i just imposed upon you. it limits what we can do if we think about as just the problem of religion. we know individuals are not born hating and some ideological, personal, communal and structural. where religious movements operate we are not powerless to prevent their spread even if there are limits to what we can do. much of what we do to avert violent extremism is also worth pursuing on its own. giving people a stake in the community and greater confidence in the future, indian government abuses and improving basic education and health services.
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these are within our grasp. these are practices that we can change, steps that we can take. we can and must win on behalf of the most vulnerable across the globe. the complexity of the threat, while it invite your attention, it's not a call for complacency. but it's a call for all of us who care about africa's future to roll up our sleeves and get to work. so thank you. [applause] >> greg. thank you so much. we are going to take some questions before you depart. that was very comprehensive kind of view of the many dimensions that feed into this. in terms of the next administration coming in, where
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are the areas that you see in your position that you would like much greater investment to happen? do you think we are getting the balance right? even within the nonmilitary side of our efforts to counter violent extremism. or are there areas that kind of irked you that we are not doing a bit more? >> urge is a strong word for a government official last night all i can say is that there' tha macro problem that i described which is the imbalance of resources. then even when we think about preventive measures, we've got great difference, different types of challenges. we have front-line states to deal with refugees and potential violent extremism in the middle east, and africa, in asia. i mean, in both continents.
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the proximity of the threat and the scale of the challenge that the degree of existing resources areas. in my judgment the potential for the threat to spread in africa suggests to me that we should be devoting additional resources in the prevention work in africa. because in the middle east we are already in a place where we are engaging fighting a war. we do have armed conflict in africa, some of which directly engaged either u.s. or partner or international forces. but there's lots of important prevention work to be done. i wouldn't want to suggest that we should stop doing anything we are already doing but i think it's important we have more resources. when we have more resources i think a significant amount of them could be fruitfully used in
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africa spent it strikes me just from an event we had a recently on elections in santa barbara. elections that were abruptly a note and then rerun with the opposition boycotting. this on the island that is dominantly muslim with populations that is 60% under 15 years old. it strikes me that just but that have become a kind of creates those very conditions, enduring and justice. in a neighborhood where extremists are, in fact, trying to win over recruit. and so it says something about how do we pursue our robust democracy and governments and
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how do we reply to team partners. tanzania is one of our closest partners in assistance and it's always been something of a donor dog but how do we have those are conversations that this is not in their interest in the long run either. the other case, and that's a preventive case you're the other place that will be interesting is nigeria. with boko haram very much squeezed, we have hundreds of former oklahoma members captured, hundreds of young women who have been captured along with them, some of them initially set for humanitarian assistance, then set off to prison. nobody is quite sure what to do with somebody's. we know that so many members of boko haram were really coerced indeed and particularly after the death, didn't go for ideological purposes but were coerced. now that kind of whole transitional justice and what do
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you do, how do you both serve the members of families who have been brutalized by members of boko haram, and yet how did not consign some of these are young fighters have they been the worst into it from spending the rest of their lives in a very unhappy and brutal prison life? and so i think there's an opportunity in a place like nigeria we have such a huge body of people to actually examine and learn from. i hope that the international community can encourage nigeria to do so. they initially did have a deradicalization cve program within the national security agency, but that to my knowledge has been cut off.
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there are opportunities out there for big learning from some of these. >> i agree there's a lot of learning to be done in nigeria and boko haram is not defeated but it is at least sort of on the move, please give going to highlight areas that i think are particularly acute concerned i would put mali on the list. we all talk about northern mali but the center of the country is beginning to really for a and it becomes, it's a little outpost beyond which government officials cannot travel and is no presence. we are at risk of losing mali. their are a lot of preventive work that can be done in addition to work that can be done in places where we are already seeing some progress and subpopulations.com under protection.
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nigeria to the big issue is less cve than it is government administration of the area that they've liberated, and the appalling lack of presence and services to those of them quote-unquote liberated. i would just like mali. -- flag mali. [inaudible] >> networks of grievance that would make a lot of sense for ambitious extremists who want to tap into and mobilize. i think what's happening in central mali, even the broader kind of poll, farmer attacks becoming something of a national or even regional network our things to watch for. let's take some questions from the audience. we will take one from the back
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there. >> thank you so much. i think it's important what you'vyou've highlighted about hw reactive some of our policies can be, particularly in cve delivedothat they should be ulta preventative measure. by question is in terms of work towards an early warning system, sort of like what we've seen cement the possibly of mass atrocities, whether or not there's any work to develop the networks, the groundwork in the matrix to have in place throughout communities in subsequent africa an early warning system to identify potential vulnerable areas for violent extremist groups? thank you. >> i don't know that we've gotten the atrocity prevention early warning networks down, but i do think that you are 100% right to highlight the need for indicators to suggest when and
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where particular kinds of interventions are most hopeful. when i look at the scale of need, i do wonder though whether we need to fight a more fine-grained analysis or simply need to act on what we already know. we know a fair amount and there are some places as we were just discussing that really do need attention for which we lack resources. i would personally, if i were trying to prioritize, do we need more awareness or do we need, up witwhere the problems are emerg, or do we need more resources for addressing those problems? my bias is toward the resources. having said that i think there's a huge analytic need but i think that analysis is about what works than it is about where do we need it. those are my thoughts.
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thank you for that. [inaudible] >> looking for an answer, keep searching for the answer they want. [inaudible] was there any value to encourage -- [inaudible] i don't know what that would be.
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[inaudible] [inaudible] >> the grand mufti has been very helpful in circumstances in debunking allegations with regard to islamic tenets. but, of course, those institutions operate very independently. and double hat this sources are
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generally speaking probably not going to provide the kind of alternative that your question implies you are seeking. so what is i think has been useful is the intermediary bodies that have had regional routes. people of significant esteem sort of individuals with particular esteem -- what's the name of -- shaikh abdullah is one example. the morocco program, the barack and training program where, when these regional imams, they are introduced into the whole sort of moroccan theological systems.
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there are alternatives to be found in different regions as well. but in africa right now i think it's the moroccans that are playing the key role in regional interpretations. as you will appreciate the u.s. is not in a particular place to be dictating to religious establishments, what they do or say. i think they key has been too fine those figures that had particularly and lightning and salvatore messages, and doing what we can to direct other countries, other actors, other religious networks to interact with those. because to close at risk and, of course, kill something. religion is deathly one of these areas in which india's
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experience the distance between the state of religious institution suggests caution in how we think about as an element of direct engagement in our foreign policy. >> in terms of getting more resources, you think there's opportunities for public-private partnerships? could you talk more about where you see those, if you do? >> sure. i mean, some of the most interesting public-private partnerships that have been held to date, in my experience, it doesn't mean there are not more, have revolve around things like tech camps and training. so things having to do with technology weekend essential to provide people with different tools and platforms and things that have to do with training into the ways that are important are running organizations or
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creating networks and doing outreach. those i think are terrific way for public-private partnerships. but for example, i think a really underexploited set of opportunities recalls around me doing and economic developer. a lot of what what colleagues in a.i.d. work on are provided on to put osha training or providing essential vocational programs for youth, the private sectors is clearly in the best position to articulate the past and then apply. it can be done locally and can be done internationally. part of the challenge is that most of the companies, really highly developed corporate social responsibility into tend
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to be in areas that areas are not necessary going to be the areas in which people are being trained. but i think there is a lot more that business can do if they can be convinced to see itself interest in doing that and if i think it's likely, more likely to be locally based businesses that duty economic empowerment linkages. i think there's a lot that can be done on the tech side that can be done by outside bodies. >> i do think there's a lot to be said for kind of connecting people through markets and infrastructure. if you look at a lot of places in the sahel, northern nigeria, have kind of been the places where they are extremely isolated, infrastructure. they get most of the food from algeria, smuggled because it's cheaper that way than from
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southern mali. northeast nigeria has very little interaction with the rest of nigeria, particularly lately, but has cross-border connections and markets there. i was looking into dhs of these various countries over years, and in places like chad or timbuktu, first of all the lack of education, no education at all rates are so much higher than in the rest of the country. 85. but also the lack of any access to any news whatsoever, whether radio, newspaper or television, or cell phones as well. so kind of how do you begin to connect communities in a way that makes them depend on what another?
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it would have to each other but if they're independent and invested in each other success, that's been a big thing for me as well. one of the projects that we saw was really a local community, several of whom were extremely reform us, lots of tension between the very conservatives and the less conservatives. oti at the time started a soccer match between them which eventually evolved into weekly banquets, eventually women were involved. i ran into some at the airport and he said i was just a tour guide. i was with my gun at this point. i know where you were. it was actually kind of, very kind of uplifting intercommunal event. you don't think about kind of thing with cve necessarily by the impacts are similar i think.
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>> that was very subtle. one more question. maybe we can squeeze to it if we taken together and we can turn it back to you. yes. >> so my question is about demoting democracy and countering violent extremism. at a place like tunisia when we send violent extremism increased exponentially since the revolution, it warrants the question is there a trade off between democracy promotion and violent extremism? and if not, then how do we wrote democracy but also stopping a repeat of events that happened in tunisia and countries like it? >> i think -- the last one. the lady -- spirit we are very proud of the work we've done all over the world, particularly africa come on supporting moderate voices. i was what you could say something more about how you
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define cge and what is not cge? >> the reality is that on extremism, runs dramatically in democratic and nondemocratic countries. .. daesh moved from being, you know, a movement within syria to
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suddenly to sweeping across iraq, it was a sense of political disenfranchisement, that the state no longer represented those and that daesh could appeal to these people because their government was a bigger problem than daesh. our own view is violent extremism can penetrate any society but that non-responsive governments or abusive governments are not a good recipe for combating violent extremism. so that is to say it is not democracy per se, it is not elections per se, it is the quality thereof. i think that is what is so important about the cve dialogue because it introduces, if you think about counterterrorism about a conversation between governments where we say we have a common enemy and we're going to fight them and think of cve being a conversation that says, there is a common problem, you have to think about how oar
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actions contribute to the problem or solve the problem it's a qualitatively different discussion at the bilateral level. i don't think there is any singular recipe for grievance and the and spread of violent extremism, but i think it is pretty clear a lack of ability to participate in political life or feel that one's political life respects one's individual or one's community are things that make people more vulnerable to violence and therefore not good. in terms of moderate voices, the basic distinction, about the aspects of faith and focus instead on actions f you're a parent you say, you know, i love you. i don't like what you're doing, right?
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so same thing about, you can have your faith but i don't want you to be violent. so i think the key there, really even though you're right, we use the word moderate, i think the key distinction for the purposes of this broader fight is violence and so, i think that's the, it is the non-violent element regardless whether or not you believe in jihad or would characterize yourself asala fifth, i think -- as a salafist, whether you think violence is legitimate means to an end and whether you're christian and you think violence is means to an end to your goals, it is equally problematic. >> great. we'll take the last one because she was passed over. >> friends for peace and i thank you thank you for your time and
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comments on the top i can. i have two questions. when you said that organizations are reluctant to change their programs to adopt cve approach, if that is due to funding or grant issues or if it goes deeper into organizational missions and goals don't reflect that goal currently? the second question -- >> [inaudible]. >> okay, one. >> so i think, i think there are some organizations for whom the term cve is really problematic, and i will admit to it is not my favorite term either. i much prefer the secretary-general's preventing violent ex-freakism taxonomy, but i think securitization of aid or securitization of humanitarianism and i just don't see it that way at all.
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i see humanitarian principles penetrating what is otherwise a security conversation that is really powerful for the future of the planet and our own security. i think part of it is the language and i think part of it is that people sometimes misconstrue protection of a core mission with, with rejecting alternative ways to accomplish that mission. so i'm hopeful over time through conversation that will change but i think it remains a barrier to some degree now. >> we are at time. >> thank you so much, jennifer. >> thank you so much for coming over. for 1st of august, this is a great group we've had here. things so much for joining us. we hope we can circle back with you. >> look forward to reading your report. thank you.
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>> the pressure is on. [applause] [inaudible conversations]. >> okay. great. well, that was terrific and i do
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hope we can persuade her to come back down the line and, here's some of the follow-up from what we're doing. and what the state department has been able to accomplish. we're going to turn now to tiffany lynch. tiffany is a long-time friend of csis. she is a senior analyst, policy analyst at the u.s. commission for international religious freedom. has done a lot of work on nigeria over the years, but, well beyond. in effective any came to us with the thought of organizing this roundtable and looking at some of the questions, kind of getting and expert, the commission is commissioning shorter reports that will feed into that process as well.
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tiffany, weil turn to you and then to terje. >> thank you for organizing this event. i want to thank the undersecretary for her very insightful remarks. i want to speak about the general review of religion in africa, and how we at the commission deal with religious extremism spreading throughout the continent. we're looking at some of the responses that we've seen, government @, societal, international responses and then i will conclude with some recommendations. many of you are aware, religion is conspicuous throughout african society. the churches and mosques are everywhere. prayer is, highly devoted and very faithful in terms of fulfilling their tenets. as we had heard earlier, religious polls show religion is
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amongst the primary motivators for many africans. 2009, a barometer poll, 81% labeled religion very important. pugh found that to be even higher at 90%. in addition to the states within african society, we see faith being very diverse. not only do we have strong islamic and christian communities that compete with each other but there is a lot of competition within and growing competition within these faiths between evangelical and pentacostal christians as population is growing. increasing fellowship of conservative forms of islam. within the newer community what is interesting we see these groups play even greater importance of religion on their lives role of religion in society and the role of religion in government. coupling with this growth of the diverse religious actors we know that religion is growing on the continent.
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pew earlier this year, last year, found that christianity and islam expected to grow by twice the number of followers by 2015 on the continent of africa. even though christians are supposed to remain the highest proportion of religious followers, the percentage of growth within islam is increasing at a higher rate than christianity. we'll see even stronger competition between religious communities in the continent. so i think it is important to have this broad frame of mind when we look at africa and religious extremism and religious fellowship on the continent that we have a really, growing, strong marketplace for religion within the continent and how do these factors impact religious extremism. good interfaith and interfaith relationships amongst the communities. this is what we'll be grappling with, not just ex-freakism, but relationships -- extremism but relationships between
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communities going forward. we've been following africa for 15 years since 1999. 10 years ago we reported on three countries. eritrea, sudan. we since added central african republic, ethiopia, kenya and mali and somalia number of countries we report on and advocate for improved religious freedom conditions. i think most of this is because of expansion and growth of religious extremism on the continent. when we look at religious extremism in africa we look at most visible and violent acts. we look at al-shabaab in mali and kenya. boko haram in chad. myriad of groups in mali and executing attacks in neighboring countries. these groups have had profound
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impact on religious freedom in sub-saharan africa. al-shabaab, killed christian converts, destroyed shrines, assassinated government officials, those work withing them, labeling them as apostates. strict interpretation of cherie raw law and neighboring kenya, ex-coo iting bloody attacks with the westgate mall and university attacks. in boko haram they have attacked churches during worshiping. systematically destroyed churches throughout the northeast. forcibly converted christians. attacked mosques in the northeast. predominantly, most recently during ramadan eid celebration. attacking worshipers and assassinated and killed persons engaged in -- islamic behavior. in mali we're all familiar with the destruction of historic shrines and attacks. and other groups implementing
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strict interpretation of sharia. in addition to the violence religious extremism we're familiar with, we've seen quieter expansion of religious extremism. what we mean by that, these are reduction in communal relationships between muslims and christians. increased lack of trust between religious communities, increased dialogue of religious communities. increased of rhetoric to insult the other and the other's tenets. for instance, we document these concerns in nigeria where the nigerian interreligious council, overarching interreligious body. the christian association of nigeria and, they didn't meet for multiple years because of a lack of trust and because of disinterest in dialogue between individuals. we have heard christians in nigeria refer to all list lames as boko haram.
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we heard muslims refer to christians as infidels. central african republic which has not encountered terrorism, we her christians connect muslims to boko haram or broader jihadist network. what we see is worrying is a recent pew poll found that 40% of african christians in a number of countries consider muslims to be violent, direct impact we see of violent groups on the community and on the countries. now we also see not only between muslims and christians, a real disconnect within faiths. concerns about religious interfaith dialogue. concerns about hate speech within the communities. so we also hear muslims are very concerned about extremism within their country, within their community and within their faith, more so than they are necessarily about extremism from the other side and vice versa. christians concerned about christian extremism as opposed to muslim extremism.
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so within these various areas of extremism we have encountered throughout our years we also see a number of governmental responses to try to address this, and you know, from the commission's perspective we found variety of initiatives to be faulty and to infringe on an individual's religious freedom rights set forward in covenants and international human rights standards. targeting religious or ethnic communities or supported or -- membership or support of religious extreme i groups. we've seen this in kenya really, so malis and muslims on the coast in northeast nigeria. we've also seen governments promote particular religious interpretations over all their citizens. usually promotion of what the government views as indigenous or tolerant form of islam.

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