tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN August 9, 2016 1:15pm-6:01pm EDT
-- [inaudible] >> rule of law which is also essential that we are respectful to human rights and freedom of speech. so first i would like to start -- [inaudible] >> everybody was up. so this was a big question as soon as it started for me. why because in the past it didn't start at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, everybody was sleeping. we have only 15 days and half of the generals in the military are arrested. 165.
we have, i guess around 350 generals. we seem to not know who is behind the coup in terms of the name of the generals and the people who conduct it -- conduct it had coup. so this is another big question for me. also everybody knows in this world today if you are going to make an attempt to a coup you need to cut the communication and the internet and this was not done. they confiscated radio and television which almost nobody watches in turkey. all channels were freed to broadcast without any problems. nobody from the government was arrested. they were up in the public talking about -- [inaudible] >> and very abruptly, the
parliament was bombed. other places were going to be bombed. some parts of the palace was also -- when i look at it from a distance, i really don't understand what kind of coup it was. they were going to be arrested and problems. but this coup was carried, they wanted to -- [inaudible] >> was it a god-sent gift for government to establish turkish department to a revolution? i don't know.
>> i don't want to talk about them but i would like to say what i heard. [inaudible] >> he used to tell us, if you like to see who is behind an attack, you should look at who benefits from it. now, i worked in counterterrorism in turkey, border to syria with over 2.5 million people now refugees. just three hours after --
[inaudible] >> landed at the airport, 1536 officers were arrested or they started to arrest those officers in turkey. some of them were not, some of them were on vacation and some of them were openly against the coup. from a technical standpoint, in three hours as the chief of police i cannot make a list of 1500 people, find out where they live and then get ready. so this is the biggest question i have. when i look afterwards today the number is 90,000. there are almost 20,000 people arrested.
it obviously tells me that -- [inaudible] >> at least six months or a year because it is impossible to figure out who is who or who is behind a coup and if you look at the people there were police officers, doctors, journalists and most probably nothing to do with the coup. [inaudible] >> as soon as the coup attempt happened, muslims living here in the united states and he was -- claimed to be behind the coup and then the second was the americans. we start today see in the media
first that a general was behind the coup and then the cia behind the coup, then obama's anymore came up -- name came up and we had administration. till this day we still see demonstrations. yesterday alone or two days ago there was demonstrations and two days ago, they blocked claiming that there were going to be another coup coming from the base. when we look after the coup --
[inaudible] >> blaming the americans. you see that we are going towards an end point that we have seen in the past. [inaudible] >> first, domestic and international and then enemies and demonstrations against those enemies, taking up by activities which we have seen by burning american flag from the base and also people are going to see more and i too believe that the last point is going to be a
turkish revolution and i think it is going to be -- [inaudible] >> turkey revolution. for that, i will explain why. came out and said that they are pledging $550 billion to u.s. in turkey for the next five years. $200billion. [inaudible] >> but how isis members are cheating up in five years watching the international center study on violent and extremism and the coup attempt.
also territory ban the religious services to those people. but who carry out suicide attacks was -- so i am truly concerned about where my country is approaching. two days ago, someone i know from the police who are chief of organized crime division mostly in turkey and he was arrested after 2013 operations corruption
charges brought against ministers and his son and he didn't want to get arrested. two days ago his wife was arrested because he didn't show up. they had a baby, 1-year-old who was being breast-fed by his mom. he was not allowed to be taken by his mom and left with middle brothers and sisters and today i read an 87-year-old lady was arrested because the lawyer's son was not found or couldn't find them. instead they arrested his mom. turkey's oldest -- 200 years ago
-- [inaudible] >> the power the federal government has through legislation. today was in the media that turkey's most expensive real estate, is being sold to the saudis so thank you very much. [applause] >> good afternoon. thank you for having me, professor alexander and it's a great pleasure to be here.
what to achieve in ten minutes? i mean, i've been thinking about this for the last few days as well as scholars and in trying to make sense of this i think we are not going to get anywhere past 45 minutes, i think this is a great wake-up call for political scientists who were told when i was being raiseed an area that was dead and maybe after egypt, turkey, thailand i think it might be back on again, who knows. i don't know. so let's start off from the premise of what actually happened and why it actually happened. i think we are still in the stages of just getting some very preliminary information. of all the colleagues that i have spoken to there's diversion
views. individuals who are saying that the west has got this wrong and not seeing this from the correct lens, specially washington, specially the european capitals because they are saying because we are concentrating on how our own benefits as opposed who is actually responsible and trauma that turkey is experiencing. let me just deal with that before giving my take on it. this is a very traumatic experience for any society. i guess any society that has to reel through the experience of a coup is lightly to be overthrown by military, it's quite terrifying, if you're on a streets like istanbul, gunshots
firing guns and attacking the parliament building, headquarters of the intelligence organization, i don't know if it's quite replicatable in terms of the torment that it might cause individuals. turkish's associate is very -- society is confused and it's very inadequate to deal with what's going on. so that's just -- in terms of who is carrying out the coup, i think we heard one take by professor. i don't necessarily have any better information. i propose the view but i don't have necessarily hard evidence to show you. this is more my view that's being informed by a collection that everything that i've been trying to follow in the last two to three weeks.
it does seem apparent that although the turkish government would like to blame the muslim clerkic who resides in pennsylvania here, we have yet to see concrete evidence that draws a direct line between gulan in pennsylvania to coup makers in turkey who actually carried tout coup. that is yet to be established and one of the things the turkish government will have to prove as the turks adamant from u.s. authorities. that being said, there seems to be an overwhelming amounts of circumstancial evidence and coup
noters who have been forced to sign testimonials and statements and that mr. gulan gave the order but it's hard to sort of, you know, verify the truthfullness of that statement. that being said, there's more credible statements carried out by individuals. there's trusted that are suggesting that there's been significant evidence that have dormants who have now seep upon the opportunity to implement and try to unsee. why now? one of the mainstream theories that its forward again is the suggestion that at the end of this month when the high military council which is the
supreme gathering of the promotion list of the turkey chief of staff, military promotions to fill in the biggest spots of the military hierarchy, it was rumored that a thousand senior officers were going to be let go as part of erdogan's to -- the protest of 2013. in the ongoing struggle it seems that matters came to a head between erdogan forces as well as possibly other elements within the state and military who are not necessarily honest. was there a direct correlation, did the orders come from the complex in america down to turkey? we don't know that. but that might be something that we have to concentrate on and see how that unfolds in the future.
now, what is clear is what kind of impacts this is going to have on the whole variety of factors. the first which is, i guess, what washington and america is interested in, how does this affect u.s.-turkey side. it's likely to effect it very negatively. right now there's immense amount of pressure on obama administration by the turkish government. you have to hand over and extradite him now. ministers saying here we are, we want him and we are going to present you with evidence. on the american side, the americans are saying, well, great, we will consider it but the extradition that exists between the united states and turkey which was signed in 1979,
34 articles pertaining to this anything from arson rape, a whole series of offenses which are considered extraditable, the american merits which is beyond the reasonable doubt. right now they don't have it. nothing so far since the turkish authorities have presented against gudan for the last three years the extradition, the handover request is not new. it goes back to 2013, no formal extradition is being made but the demand has been hand them over, hand them over and the america's response has always been what do you have that we can use in a court of law. once that extradition request is made, that's going to be considered in the district court of pennsylvania or stratron.
this is a time consuming process and the turks are not right now in a position where they are willing to wait for this. there's a whole series of things at risk. the base, most effective territory where the islamic territory is prosecuted out of in term of bombing sources and the turks are even hipting at the fact that this might be in jeopardy and that obviously sends shivers down of the spine of washington. the second the obama and the second administration that comes to washington, do we have a nato power that's based on big picture or is the turkey's side right now transitions into a quit approach unless you hand
over gulan all bets are off. that is where the whole notion of this relationship is becoming very sour. and again, this is not something new. the relationship between turkey and the united states has been very much on the slide that some of my colleagues can attest to for the last two or three years if not longer but right now it seems that the erdogan wonder is willing to take this a step further, take it a notch up and really say if you don't necessarily do what we need you to do for us, we might not necessary be the most cooperative ally in the future and erdogan has a meeting with the russian president next monday. this does have ramification outside of the broad notion of where turkey is headed as a democracy as far as america is concerned. this is, i guess, why the turks find this so offensive. they are saying the media is
concentrating at the wrong things. we are looking at the perspective of what you're interested in. you're not looking at it in the trauma that's experienced, how a democracy that you're supposed to be an ally of is not being stuck up by you. and the american response unfortunately has really very much soured erdogan's position. the chief of intelligence sa saying that we have no evidence that elan was involved. the general in charge of central commands has also said that -- i don't remember what he said. i have it down here some where. i will visit that one in a second. again, the message that's coming out of officials here is not what the government wants to here and the situation in turkey has become so tense and adamant
and demanding that lack of action on the part of the u.s. in the way that turkey would like it to act is really straining relationships and something needs to happen where that is toned down on both sides and this is something that's possibly awaiting the next administration, certainly in terms of fence mending but in the immediate -- in the immediate future, we do not necessarily should expect the handover or extradition of gulan, that's going to be time consuming, he may already have plans to go to another country where extradition and that country has not been signed. canada is one of the alternatives, possibly méxico or some other parts of sub-saharan, africa. so to reiterate we do not know if there's a direct correlation between the dulan here in
pennsylvania, it seems that a broad number had motive to investigate this, you see the purging over tens of thousands bureaucrats, military officials, as well as scholars of universities fired, leave pending investigation but you also see universities closed down which are to gulan movement, not just affiliated universities but universities who have been antiarlan. one of the speculations is it moment to the extent that ebbs -- he said it was a gift of god but also concentrating if this
is the golden opportunity to weed out and really hammer down as much political opposition that is being rising up in turkey certainly the mid 2000's specifically since the protest. i'm going to stop there and hopefully entertain more questions later on. thank you. [applause] >> well, thanks alexander for inviting me to this occasion and this panel.
i would like to stick to my ten minutes because clearly the issue that we have at hand is a very controversial one. you have already heard two presentations. i'm not very sure what novelty i could bring to what you have heard so far. first of all, alexander made references to 1996 and the -- he said made this point, i would like to make the reference to 70 years ago, 70 years ago in 1946 the uss missouri sailed into the istanbul harbor and since then turkey has been an ally of the west. it's been part of the western
transalantic community and very uncomfortable relationship, controversial relationships with ups and downs and the turkish heart may have not always been in place with the transalantic community and clearly in the course of the last couple of years there has been a drift away from the shared values of the transalantic community and also quite a bit of shoving and hustling over common interest as well as it's been the case with respect to syria. i would like to argue that even if at this point in time we may not have the con credit --
concrete evidence of who was behind the coup, that the coup is a traumatic experience. allow me to equate it to 9/11. this is in some ways the 9/11 of turkey and do remember the remark that the president of the time george bush made, you are either with us or not. this is the psychology in which the turkish president is in and the turkish society is in as well. there is a lot that can be criticized about the turkish president and people do it, and turkey is readies --
rediscovering and some four hours long and the kinds of people that were not allowed anywhere near the media in turkey have now an opportunity to speak their mind and reflect on their experiences. and it's opening my eyes as academic and expert on demand of turkey and maybe broader political issues. one point that has not come up so far is that the turkish society and quite a few made references to the kind of people that he's following in the turkish media, people who share the very values to which the united states is a society and
to which the european union is committed to have huge concerns about the way in which the turkey state was penetrated by the movement. time will tell as to what the facts are but when you listen to these debates and when you listen to prosecutors, military and civilian prosecutors who had in due course open cases of infiltration had actually faced indictments against themselves and today rightly or wrongly they are attributing these indictments and in the way which they were not allow today pursue their investigations to the fact that these were blocked by prosecutors inside the judiciary
military officers inside the turkish armed forces. time will tell whether this is the case or not. i'm here to share this opinion that the turkish public at large including liberal people, including people who are attached to freedom of expression, to human rights, to the rule of law and as i listened to these debates and those of you who have some command of turkish, i'm very willing to send the links to these debates, is also fascinating because these people i can assure you that they really mean it but they do flag out the importance of rule of law and the importance of making sure that the innocent is not
hurt together with the cull pits or the ones who have actually committed a crime there. also what they are underlining is the significance of making sure that people are appoint today their positions because of their merits , not because somehow they have access to questions in the exams, they need to sit to qualify to enter military high schools to enter the judiciary, to enter universities and elsewhere. i have been a university professor since 1983 and retired in 2013, so i have a few ideas, a few notions about exams and about exams that have been
compromised and how that reflects itself in bureaucracies including the police, the judiciary as well as in the case of myself, firsthand experience, the ministry of foreign affairs. what these debates are also underlying is this interesting expression that the -- some of the turkish columnists have invented going back to the factory settings of the turkish republic and the factory settings of the turkish republic is referred to as secularism and democracy. i would be one of the first to argue that it's a bit ambitious to argue that democracy was a factor set back in 1923, but do
please put it in the context of europe of the 1920's and 30's. i think democracy at the time simply meant against the background in europe, the idea that the people somehow would -- would have a say. it took decades for turkey to join the club of democracies and it happened at the time when the missouri sailed in istanbul harbor and since then, turkey has experienced series of coups. i have lived through everything single of them. 1960 i remember as a little boy, 6 year's old, the recollection i have of it is in the streets. that's all i have. that's my politics but i do see
understanding. and then came 1971. i was just at the verge of starting university and i saw what happened, the consequences over 1971 was nasty, young men of my age were executed and subsequently the turkish society and state regretted it just as turkey's society and state regretted that three ministers were hunged in 1960. then came 1980, luckily i was in loaned open as a graduate student and i heard it through the bbc world -- world service. then came 1997 post coup, they called it, sorry postmortem
coup. and then in 2007 the so-called e-coup, so we are subjects or citizens of a country that has had these coups but never was the parliament attacked. and i am still trembling that the turkish parol men has -- parliament has been attacked. it has been sitting there since 1980. whoever is behind the coupe, i think the west, the united states and the european union,i understand that they are angry towards the turkish government and maybe towards the president for the kind of rhetorics and language he may be using. it's not helping the exercise of
building bridges, finding the means for it -- for a dialogue but the united states, i think the u.s. is moving in that direction and the european union has to recognize that this is a trauma, that's different than 9/11 and the turkish people and turkish students, some of them are here are proud that the turkish public went out into the streets and stopped this coup in its trails. they stood up in front of tanks. how did the west respond to what happened in 1989 in beijing? remember the guy standing up in front of the tank there. we all remember him. they had to throw themselves under the tank not to be crushed by it.
where is that empathy? turkish opposition parties came together. the republican's people party, the nationalist party, the kurdish party, they all got together instantly while i'm so disappointed i was here that the u.s. government did hesitate, the first line that came out from the secretary of state for which i have genuinely high regard and respect was a hesitant one, calling all parties to restraint, how can you call all parties to restraint when one is leaving a coup against a legitimate group,
problematic government and it was only later from the white house a statement making clear that turkey was not going to be treated like egypt came, how do the turkey feel feel about it? how does the turkey feel about this tweet that i'm going to read to you? sorry. i've aged. i need reading glasses. >> i hope this is not true but this is a tweet from new york times world. it's a tweet with the link to a new york times article with a different title but the title here is the erdogan support are
cheap and they will follow whatever he says. this is not a statement you expect from a creator of democracy. you may not like it, you may not like it, but this is a president who has received 52% of the public vote. yes, there are questionmarks about how fair the election was and then the government he's presiding there are question marks, constitutional issues whether he can preside or not, fair enough, these can be challenged but the government right now is in power for 49% of the votes. this is not what they deserve, the people who voted for that particular political party neither did the others who voted
for the opposition parties. i don't wanting to on and i realized i had promised i was going to speak for ten minutes to be on the safe side. i realize this is a controversial difficult issue but i would like to see the european union and the united states to give turkey the benefit of doubt. like in 1946. the united states gesture at the time sending the missouri to the istanbul harbor made out of turkey a democracy. a problematic democracy and then eventually that country evolved into a major economic power house, let's not remember in spite of all the problems in the country, this is an economy that's still growing at 4, 4 and a half percent.
many in europe are secretly wishing that they could do the same. how did turkey come to it and this is where i -- i risk falling into serious trouble with general public opinion in turkey? it's because turkey was part of the western alliance. yes, right now there's huge -- what's the word? i can't pronounce it. obligations against the united states and to extent to the european union. but you have to understand the context. one of the commanders being stopped and arrested and shot with u.s. authorities at base. turkish public are asking the question, how on earth a super
power like the united states would not know about what's going on? .. recognizing that they need dialogue and recognizing that, i think, ibb wrong, recognizing that they cannot afford to burn bridges with this western alliance towards which it is this anger in the european union. yes, erdogan will be meeting with putin. but is really russia and
alternative to turkey? is iran an alternative the way a four star general in 2002 have suggested? turkey needs an economy and i think those who are running turkey right now recognize it even more in this particular context your so to wrap up, it's a difficult situation. time will make it much clearer, but give in year two the turkish public. the only disappointing part of the delegation was that there was not a kurdish mp included in it, and i wish it was there as well. however, i don't know what the count of information of that delegation was. i remain, frankly, hopeful, i
cannot afford to say anything to the contrary that turkey will come out from the rut into which it has fallen. but i do really hope that it will come up with the helping hand from the european union and from the united states. imagine how the region would have looked like if that missouri, uss missouri have not sailed into the harbor, and turkey had not become part of the trans-atlantic community. the european union will not need to worry about the european union, turkey migration deal. because i think the picture would have been a very different one, and the same thing applies for the fight against isis as well. i'm really sorry that i went long in front of -- too long. >> thank you very much.
[applause] >> that's a hard act to follow. i want to thank you for having me, dr. alexander, professor alexander. it's a pleasure to be here with all of you today, especially with this distinguished panel. i think i'm going to probably take a different tone than our previous speaker. what i want to talk about today is a troubling trend we've seen in turkey over the last three to four years, and what i would argue today is that the defense that we have seen after the trend in, the attempted coup, has accelerated those trends in my view. and i believe it's a very worrying for the u.s.-turkey relationship and i will explain. to understand a thing for our, i also think it's important to
just backtrack and take a quick look at our recent past. i'll start in december of 2012 when reports began to emerge of a scheme that was uncovered where turkey was working very closely with iran, it was called the goldstein and this is a way for iran to evade sanctions on a massive scale. if you'll recall it was during this time that the pressure was on iran because of its nuclear program, sanctions were at their peak. it was a race against the clock. it was an attempt to squeeze every as much as possible from a financial perspective, to bring it to the negotiating to enter prevent it from getting a nuclear weapon. as it turns out turkey was instrumental in helping iran evade sanctions, to the tune of 10 to $15 billion that was over half of iran's cash reserves at a time.
this i think gave iran more time, give more leverage as it negotiated with the west, was about to negotiate with the west. i get to it a little bit later but we learned quite a bit about the scheme, this gas for goldstein. there's an individual now is about to stand trial in the united states and i will explain how he fits in just a little bit later. following gas for gold and this was of course to be very explicit, there was a real concern that turkey was working against the western coalition at the time, working against western and to hear you have a nato country that is undermining the global effort to curtail iran's nuclear program. fast forward to 2013, the following year, we begin to see for troubling reports of turkish medal in syria. let me be very clear about that policy. i agree with it very much in terms of its efforts to bring down the regime of bashar al-assad and i think many in
this country would and around the world would as well. of course, we are looking is something that is akin to genocide right now in serious with understandable that erdogan government would be opposed to bashar al-assad. but what we saw during that time and what we've seen since is a concerted effort on the part of the turkish government to empower a broad range of factors that are involved in the syria conflict, some of whom are very troubling. i can tell you that from report that about whether colleges are today, we talked to former government officials who were talking to the troops about their border policy, how they have allowed for jihadi fighters to cross from turkey's southeastern frontier into isis or al-nusra front hold territory. what we heard from these officials was that this was essentially a turkish strategy to try to bring down the assad regime without having to get
involved personally. so it was a proxy war. they were not ready distinction between the so-called moderate rebels and the more extremist, the jihadi variety. what we saw was a very troubling trend of traffic. we saw weapons going in both cash going into these territories. obviously, a stream of fighters who were coming in, most of them flying to istanbul and making their wiki's and crossing over the border for phenomenal the of $25 or more -- nominal fee. we saw it on a pipeline that was coming out of syria into turkish territory and thus have been documented by many journalists at this point. i think probably the best report is the one done by mike of buzzfeed. if anyone has seen that, but it was very clear that jihadi groups were able to sell their oil onto the black market through turkish middlemen and, of course, the turks were again
turning a blind eye to this activity. we also saw the sale of antiquities, and this has received a lot of attention in recent years. what we saw was the southeastern turkey become a zona pellucida finance, a zone of support for a range of jihadi actors. there was a lot of concern that was voiced quietly by u.s. government officials. these discussions were rarely voiced beyond a whisper, although we did catch glimpses of the from secretary of defense ash carter from vice president biden and if the others and we saw many, many visits by treasury officials who were concerned about these illicit finance issues and those things were raised. just wraps a side note, this was a failed strategy on the part of turkey. i think we've seen blowback into turkish territory. we've been noting the last couple of years that the was the potential for cells to be going into turkey. in other words, this is not just a southeastern turkey phenomenon
but rather we are beginning to see that there were recruitment sales and supporters of isis, a minister and other jihadi groups that were based in places like opera and istanbul. -- ankara. we became alarmed about that activity. ended september 2013 there was another new story up for the indicated strain ties between turkey and the united states and this was a contract was signed with a chinese company called the chinese precision machinery export-import corporation. this was a contract to sell sophisticated weaponry to the turks outside of the sort of nato umbrella. nato allies were beginning to voice serious concern about this sale because of the potential for integration of the chinese system into a nato system, and what this might mean for cyberattacks or gain information about nato weaponry. then in december 2013 we saw the
week of the istanbul prosecutors report. this was where we focus great deal on a list of finances, a real eye-opener. of course, has been attributed to the columbia but and i've no reason to doubt that. it was the coupon movement companies bishop or. it was mind-boggling the amount of illicit financial activities those detailed in there. that we saw banks facilitate a illegal transaction. we saw classic money like over invoicing where brown should whistle for $430 a pound. amazing ways of bringing money through turkey and onto places like iran, one of the illicit activity three to be $100 billion. really an astounding report never quite confirmed as official but it did elicit a massive crackdown to his will begin to see inside turkey was a crackdown on the movement really
in response to many of these leaks. what was told into the also was that we were not seeing the turkish parliament or the judiciary being able to take action released even be able to investigate further because this is really when the purges begin at a craps a slower pace. in 2014 we noted the financial action task force which is essentially the u.n. of terrorism finance had finally be listed turkey as a gray listed country, going to does not up to standards in terms of its care finance regime. what was amazing about that is turkey was on the gray list for seven years from that of simply not implementing the recommended standards for terrorism finance. then, of course, later on that year there was the hamas war with israel and we noted with alarm that the person who sparked that war was a man --
the west bank chief of the brigade, the armed wing of hamas. he plan and facilitate and finance the kidnapping and killing of three teenagers in the west bank and that attack sparked the 2014 more. i can tell you that today even with the recent rapprochement between israel and turkey that there are still roughly a dozen hamas activists and figures still based in turkey today. and all the while we are turkey fighting against the united states in terms of its involvement in account isil camping. it was actually only into this time roughly last year that turkey joined actively the fight against isis despite the fact this was a nato country bordering on syria. we now see turkey still involved but not certainly to the extent i think the west would like to see it. this has given one instance that turkey's foreign policy has not
been aligned with the united states for quite some time. be disturbing not opine of that with nader. all the while we did see crackdown on the press your turkey has become a leading jailer of journalists the judiciary has not tried and as we've already heard, the current president, or to one, has tried to change the system. i things will on the way from changing it to a parliamentary system to that of presidential system is consolidating power. this has been a concern we know from state department and other officials that this has been an ongoing topic of conversation. this brings us to the july 15 coup. the crackdown continues today. the consolidation continues. we are seeing signals and the potential withdrawal from account isil coalition. there is concern as we headed to the withdrawal from gaza partnership or a least a downgrading of its. let me be very clear.
i think he was turkish relationship is crucial from a geographic perspective, from a political perspective, from a bridge between the united states and the west to the middle east. there's been a lot of talk about whether turkey might be removed from nato or might remove itself from data. i can only tell you this, that it would be complicated or and i think that's an understatement. as we have studied nato, it's not easy to join nato but it's also extremely difficult to be removed from the. i would go as far to say the reminded of the hotel california. you can try to check out but there's no way you're leaving, at least the way things are curly constructive. i can imagine turkey would want to do that. i can see potential downgrading of ties, and as we for a possible warming of ties with countries like russia and iran. the concern now is for i think primarily for angelique air
force base. this zone to 1500 american servicemen, home to a squadron of a tense, home to a number of armed drones that an active inside syria. we have other military assets elsewhere including radar, search and rescue teams which are crucial given how close they are to the syrian border to be able to take, to extract special operative both the u.s. and from other countries that may be operating inside syria and, of course, it's been widely reported that the united states or western countries have nuclear weapons in turkey. and to think that all of this right now is going on, this great string while these assets are there, is deeply troubling. i think right now it's going to be important for the united states to consider contingency plans for all of these military assets and for the 3000 or so total service vendor based in turkey.
there is great concern as the cia can barack obama, whoever owned the united states is somehow behind this coup cometh it certainly seems as if the serviceman who are there are subject to breath some danger. we've seen the protests and we've seen the calls, the anti-americanism that's been spiking the bt right now from our perspective, from my perspective is to try to bring turkey back into the fold. how to do this when they blame us for the coup is picturing a difficult for me to see. i think the rhetoric needs to be tamp down. the extradition of this man certain to see his followers will likely involve in this coup on some level but be able to prove that an old man who's been living as a reckless in the poconos, that we could directly tie him to this plot i think
strikes because extremely difficult. the other thing that i will mention an ancient the gold trader early on. this trial which is coming up in the early fall i think it's also the potential to greatly strained u.s.-turkish relations. the trial itself is going to be about sanctions busting the it's going to be about how one individual with strong ties to the turkish interim government was able to move so much gold and swordsman in and out of turkey, but as we now understand the story raises comfort much involved the oppression of the turkish government. in fact, the erdogan family. if that information begins to come out in court, it will be extremely volatile. especially in this environment. so this is going to be something that i would say could make or break turkish u.s. relations. or at least tip the scales in one way or the other. i'll conclude with this. it's not about whether the
united states was harboring transit and, of course, we haven't and without much argument from erdogan or the akp for many, many years up until 2013. i think really the core here is that we're looking at a leader of turkey who has been on a slide toward autocracy, towards islamism. this has been a steady trend. so there's no doubt in my mind that the coup that was attempted on july 15 was at the democratic. it was an assault on liberalism. it was an assault on nader. it was an assault on western values. but i can also say very clearly that what we've seen from this government over the last three or four years has also been an assault on western values. it is also been an assault on data and so it is not up to all of us to try to bring these elements altogether under one
roof, u.s. and turkish, try to work out a way forward. for right now it seems i can very difficult one at that. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you very much, jonathan, and the other panelists, or very valuable insights. i would like to develop a discussion with the audience, let me ask one question to the panelists. i think, jonathan mentioned specifically nato and the challenge there. what is really important i think for us to consider if not just what's happening today in turkey for yesterday, but to try to
assess the value, the added value of turkey as a partner for many decades going all the way back to the korean war. and turkey's contributions to nato over the years as a reliable partner for because -- turkey itself, the future of nato, european security, particularly against the backdrop of the refugee crisis. my question relates now to the brother i think scenario of the global dimension and the secretary-general of the united nations made a statement that
actually expressed some great concern related to the future role of nato as a reliable partner. and since the secretary-general of the united nations doesn't think for one country but the entire membership, i wonder, does the secretary-general actually reflect the views of many dozens of countries, for example, in the so-called arab world, or whatever it is, or the muslim world or the non-muslim world? so the question to the panelists is, can the united nations become a tool to provide clarity
to the confusion of the role of the international community to deal with security concerns? because otherwise it bodes i think quite negatively on the future of the united nations itself. >> i think -- okay. can you hear me? i think united nations approach is critical from several points of view, but as you mentioned that the general secretary is representing all of the countries. he cannot i guess openly speak about what's going on in terms of issues in the region. especially the human rights
violations and the freedom of -- in turkey which reflects the problems of the whole region in terms of fighting against terrorism in the region, against isis, or other jihadis who are -- now especially to europe which is a big concern because turkey acts as a gatekeeper to those terrorist organizations and is essential that we stop them at the border between syria in turkey. unfortunately, now we cannot do that. so i think, i believe that those issues need to be addressed by the u.n. >> i'll take a pass. >> i have great respect for the united nations however it is a general recognition that the
united nations effectiveness at its own political and safety issues, not only humanity issues, on economic issues, is being questioned. and clearly from my point of view a world without united nations would certainly not be any better off. >> now we will open it up -- okay, i'm sorry. spent once again yonah has created an extraordinary panel. two aspects. one is the extra. yonah just touched on it again, and the other is the internal. we are talking about democracy as an internal thing i'd like to ask a question particularly of the turks on the panel. i live in turkey many years ago. i'm have many turkish friends of
all political stripes the one thing an american sees is the following. you have sort of the ataturk created weeks ago of the secular, secular, one of you equate with being liberal, secular. also quite nationalistic in many cases. then you have what has become what is really unknown to americans in the past and focus on them may be unknown to the turkish beliefs, a large part of the turkish population is religious. and muslims. turkey may be the most muslim country in the world. i think 99.9% muslim. it's quite an extraordinary figure. doesn't say anything one way or the other. within the religious part of turkey which is the majority, there are of course divisions. some of you mentioned gulenists. there are others. let's call them today gulenists versus erdogan. the thing of the secular.
these are three large elements and i haven't mentioned the couragkurds or anything like the strikes me that balance can how shall i put it? the relation between these elements is crucial to the future of turkish democracy. i haven't heard one if you mention it really and i think it would be very useful to add that into the mix along with all of the anguish that america's think about what it should be thinking about turkey right now. much more important what the turks are thinking about turkey but from an american point of you it's also important what do we think about turkey? >> thanks. any comments or questions from the audience? would you identify yourself for the record, and ask the questi question. >> can you show him what to do? >> thank you very much. georgetown university. first, i want to thank all the
speakers here because i think what we got from this meeting so far is what's really at stake. and just to follow up, you are right. first turkish democracy, what's going to happen to the country? i'm a little bit concerned because with all the blame put on his role in the gulenists, it concerns me and i'm concerned about it because you know, gulenist is basically a pro-western pro-democracy pro-human rights member. i don't see any danger for democracy resides a comment from that movement. if you have another impression i would like to hear about it, but what i know about the gulenist movement is that it is democratic and i am more concerned i have to say about the other side.
let's look into this again. the nature of the coup told us how at the democratic it was. i think we need to know more about it. the forces so-called at the democratic forces behind it. where are they? do we know enough in order to say that it is an inside -- and anti-democratic coup, or was it one that tried to implement a stronger democracy in turkey? that's an open question to me. i want to say how important the stakes are. and the second is, turkish relationship with the west. we heard about anti-americanism in turkey and how much the coup is now playing on the united states. not only the gulenist movement of the united states is behind you yeah, behind it, the old story. bleeding into this very dangerous picture of
anti-americanism and some of you who know -- who talked about at the american 21st century. now, that remark is important because it doesn't criticize the united states. it criticizes the forces behind this anti-americanism, which are anti-democrat, anti-ballistic forces. .. ... >> the publicity, which was the most dangerous one, if i perceived the situation correctly. so the sources behind the coup i
doubt. let's have a discussion about that. i think these are very essential issues. and again i thank you all for showing us what is at stake and how important it is what we have seen in turkey. >> in terms of where we are going from here, i guess you caught a few critical points. why celebration behind it and why i have doubts about the crew. the firs thing was from an investigative point of view, if and as far as i know for 20 years i worked with the military, our military is
secularist. no general soldiers allowed and two or three years ago it was almost impossible to pray openly between the soldiers or inside the medical compound. i remember when i was a young surgeon going after business men to see the records of the military and they were praying five times a day because it was deemed as a crime. fast forward to today, the ma r majors i worked with are generals today. and as soon as i had connection or interaction with them none of them were -- they were ultra secularists mainly. i have this question. if the military was so powerful
why was he working for the last three years with all institutions in turkey and didn't force them to the negotiation table and threatening him with the force he has in the military for a coup. i don't by the fact that they were behind the coup but what can happen is there is a sentiment against what was being done in the military. and i think everybody from different parts of ideology came together against this coup. they couldn't scare them out of the coup because he was afraid of it and somehow, some generals
carried out a counter coup which was maybe a stage coup, i don't know. how i can see that is i still can't see the chief of staff, top generals in charge today, even though several hundred generalists were fired and we charged the elite forces of counterterrorism generals who worked closely with nato and i know the rest of the generals or some of them are pro-russian who claim we should leave nato and join shanghai five. these are questions we need to answer. when it comes to this, i see for the last five years turkish rhetoric coming from areas of turkey from the government that we see is against islam.
maybe sufi islam if we can name it. and it is very close to the ideology that is behind al-qaeda and isis. i have witnessed this with my own eyes. in the government, when i was interacting with isis and al-qaeda members. i see this very dangerous. under normal circumstances in the past, turkish public was close to this and al-qaeda-like terrorist organizations but now it is in our works, it is being talked openly and some parts of the government openly support those terrorist organizations and their ideology. even ideology that has never been in turkey. >> i will be brief as possible.
but it is hard to be brief about this. here is what i think. i think the problem that turkey is very much facing is some of the questions you entertained. i would not disagree with you more, ahmet. i think part of the problem is the grand movement and the other movement is complicit in trying to transform turkey into their own private playground. it is amazing the extent how they have accomplished this. i cannot place the grand movement in any spirit of democracy. you can take it back as far as you can. i will start off with 307. the dechemicalization of turkey was something that the grand movement was very complicit in. the trials and google trials and horrific treatment of profess professors, military officers.
one of the most progressive education people because she was competition over the cause of education in turkey resulted in a woman dying of cancer and being indicted in prison had she not died. the grand movement on one hand has been trying to topple the regime for a variety of reason. simply because it is a lovers to tolerate each other. this is about ceasing state entities. i have never been a supporter of the cause not for once. the national view movement of turkey, the political islamist of turkey has had a coral with the tenants of turkey and where it started from. it is only since 2010, since
there has been a quest to eliminate critical opposition he looked at politics in the country as a board game of risk. let's fly 20,000 people and appoint judges to this and that. it seems on some level an existential gain. the larger picture is not one led my institutions. yes, a 77-year-old man in pennsylvania but i don't con do done. if july 15 happened without explicit knowledge is not something i can agree with. i don't have evidence. but for a movement that has been budding for 40 years and has had so many directives and do this, take down this, put this person in jail, take over education
sectors in turkey, appoint professors to these universities. it is a playground of two dominant personalities and it is a shame. >> that makes me think of those two many elephants that we talk about when they fight it is the grass that suffers and the grass here, i am afraid, is turkish democracy and that is what happened in the last 5-8 years. it is a challenge. it really is a challenge to mould islam and democracy. i have to say shap oo to the
archaic governments of 2003-2008 whether the problems began. but i also cannot help but think if turkey would be somewhere completely different today in the positive sense of the word if, matt caf and nicola who i have question marks had not adopted the language they did towards turkey. quite demeaning language. i was involved in. party made a genuine effort to make the criteria for eu
membership. it was not easy. there was resistance but he made an effort. and society was mobilized in support of it. and the unarmed plan, we must not forget, he put his political career and prestigue behind it. what happened? those who rejected the unarmed clan became members of the european union. what was the eu capable of doing? promising that those who had vote in favor of the unarmed plan would benefit from the lifting of trade sanctions and restrictions on the freedom of movement. and all glory, the european
union, not the united nations, didn't deliver on those promises. think about the position through those who were arguing that the eu would not deliver on it's promises. so there is that side to it. it is a very complicated picture. yes, in today's turkey, especially liberals, secularists are worried about the future, about the space -- public space for themselves. however, i still want to be optimistic and these two elephants fighting with each other has created, i think, wisdom and reason that the very good question that you asked about all of these different
groupings somehow an equalibrium needs to be found. and i see the way in which opposition parties reacted and the way in which the media, especially the media that suffered in the hands of the government, respondedo opens up an opportunity for rec reconsilation. but the eu and the united states, i am arguing, and i am sorry i was destructive, i have a piece that i hope will be posted precisely on this issue, but can adopt policies that
enlarge the state rather than suffocate them. and so far what has been said from my judgment is not helping to enlarge the space and that is why i underline the need. i agree there are huge challenges. but i must also underline that the world is facing challenges. look at what is happening in brazil. look at what is happening in this country. in this country you have watched the hahn couple and the reaction they had. shame to the american society who have stood up and it is those who have stood up for that couple that will hopefully, hopefully, maintain the u.s. as a lighthouse toward which other
democracies will be able to move. but if it doesn't happen, think of the consequences on turkey. look at the european union. islamaphobia is -- you know, i cannot find the expression. it is out of its cage. it is out of its cage. and i belong to a generation that sold the europe or rather the consequences -- saw -- of a europe whose phobia had been unleashed from the cages in the 1930's. europe has a past record and the u.s. is critical in this and it is critical that democratic forces in europe try to see
something positive to something that is happening in turkey and give it the benefit of doubt. >> just very briefly to your question. i think it is an important one. i think there is a brand of islamism we talked about during the arab spring where they were anointed as a model for islamic democracy and turkey was slated to be the model for all of these democracies that were erupting around the arab world. that collapsed and i think that since that time.
just looking at those welcome inside turkey we see members of the egyptian and libyan and jihadi groups are welcome to travel across the borders and hamas and others. it is unclear to all of us rather this is the islam that is being embraced and envision this to be the islam of the country of turkey. we are told this is to be islam islamist-like and there is a balance between religious and secular people in the country. this triggered the alarm of the
community that we understand. the problem with this and you mention that maybe he is a model, the problem is that in his opposition to the brand of islamism to his adventurous foreign policy we have seen a movement that has resorted to things we cannot possibly imagine in this country where you are seeing phone conversations being tapped apparently through intelligence channels and being released to the public. classified documents like the istanbul prosecutor report being leaked before their time. these are what we would call dirty tricks. if you call it two elephants, these are two people reportedly fighting for democracy in their own country and in the process
strangling it rather they know it nor not. both of them. >> okay. we have enough time for one or two others. can we have the mike back here, chris? >> i want to thank everyone who joined this panel. i want to talk about the things that have been mentioned about turkey and isis issues. i don't want to go into details about the speculations but turkey and the turkish government, i think, it is some kind of, ideology and relating this country to this ideology
and respecting this in the last couple months. one of the panelists asks why litt it happened at night. it was planned for 3 a.m. in the morning. we see that from the officers and the federation of the coup that it was supposed to be starting at 3 a.m. in the morning but since a major from the military informed the intelligence agency in turkey they had to start the coup earlier than planned. why the coup people didn't just cut the communication system -- actually they tried to do so. they tried to capture the base that controls the communication in turkey but they failed. and when they failed they decided to go on the base and --
it had only been put into place two weeks earlier. it is not fast timing. it has not been decided just after the attempt. there was an ongoing investigation after the first movement and since this terrorist organization made it clear that it was the nation counsel cil of turkey. the coup attempt made it earlier and faster than planned. so it wasn't -- the names didn't come up just after the coup attempt. it was part of an ongoing investigation. i think our mutual friends made
it clear they are concerned about the ongoing anti americanism and they think the united states is not at all. but it was easy to for the people to make connections and when they see statements from state officials implicating the coup and there was representatives of the house that tweeted about the coup calling for it to be more successful. so people on the streets can make this connection easy. but the turkey-u.s. relations are important to us and we have to think about this and we have to be conscious about what we say and what we do in these
difficult times. regarding the operations from the first moment until now on the highest level, prime minister issued several times that turkey will be participating in the coalition and open just after a couple days. it was closed because of the extraordinary times and the turks fly zone was closed for a couple of days. but now it is fully operational and operations started freshman from gaza and other places. so turkey is with nato and others and the coalition is somehow far-fetched ideas from my point of view and i can say that turkey has been a very important part of this for the last six years and it will be so and hopefully our friends stand with us against this coalition.
thank you. >> gray, it is your turn. >> as usual, alexander asked me to wrap it up and we are finished. i want to thank our distinguished panel for, i think, a supburb outline on suggestions and what to do about it. i cannot help but think it took about 200 years of colonial experience before we became a republic and then democacy. it takes a long time to get to that point. 216 years ago, i guess, is when turkey as a nation started that climb. at the end of the ottoman empire and the like and when you had
the big movements of what they called social reform and with later abdicating and they have studied these challenges and tried to bring about reforms and little by little they did. some quicker than other times and so on and some not as good and the like. but they made it it. they go on to the 1900s with the young turk movement and the like and all they did for this great nation. they brought that on and then of course with the time of at turk and their own revolution, if you will will, or their own battle for six or seven years for independence and like and what emerged was the modern turkey and a nation i think we should all be very, very proud of.
make no mistake, turkey as a nation and from the standpoint of geography alone changed europe and elsewhere around the world as we know it today. what should we do? i was thinking what would i do? i don't know. first of all, i would put leaders in america and the international community and i would go back and look at the history of turkey so i knew what the hell i was talking about and understood where they were, where they have been, and where they have come to today. i would also, i think, look around not only at america but in the international community where people who have credibility. there are people, some are columnist and the like.
but there are people who are trusted in turkey and vice versa. these people should be brought into the conversation. we have got to decide how the coup started and i don't think you will get to the bottom of it precisely today because the social media and all of the other things -- anybody can say whatever they want whether it is true or not. it is going to be difficult to paint exactly what happened. i am not sure that is the real challenge. i think the real challenge is to go forward now and repair what has to be fixed and the like and go forward in terms of not only nato and the european community and all of that. i would hope that someone that the leader of turkey respects would be able to communicate with him and say you have to watch what you are doing here now. you shouldn't be resting in my
general academic people and media people. their arresting or holding down a great many men and women in turkey today and that is, in my humble opinion, going to hurt him nathaniel philbrick long run if he is not careful. these are the kind of things i think people want to consider. but make no bones about it, nato, turkey has been and will be a strong ally of what we stand for our great country. i have personal knowledge of their bravery and how they created the outpost war near the end of the korean war and what they did and sacrifices. i have visited the tomb and i know the traditions of turkey and i know what they are made of and i like them personally
>> tonight on q&a, political editor susan grass and new york times chief whout correspondent peter baker. the husband and move to israel. coming up at 8 p.m., books on education. ed boland and the battle for room 314; my year of hope and despair in the new york city high school. george thomas, author of the founders and the idea of the national university after that. and monetwork morris whose work is push out, the criminalization of black schools in america. and john shields talks about passing on the right. conservative professors in the progressive universities. and andrew hacker and other s.t.e.m. delusions. all of this tonight starting at 8 p.m. eastern time on booktv
prime time on c-span2. tonight, former president bill clinton and jimmy carter discuss public service and policy changes since they both left the white house. plus global politics and polarization, voter turnout, the supreme court, and the u.s. fight against isis. here is president carter on initiatives that would encourage more young people to vote. >> you got the answer to all of the questions but i don't know. >> they know what i think. i am boring. >> let me take another problem that exists i think and that is the decreasing number of people who vote in america. you know, there is a lot of efforts i would say among republican and democratic legislatures. if you get all democrats in the legislature, all republicans, and the same governor from the
same party and what they want to do is minimize any change in the electoral system. most of it is on the opposite party, bill. i see the expression in your face. this is something that republicans are doing. but, you know, how do you get young people registered to vote? if i had my preference, i would let everybody be automatically registered to vote when they are 18 years old. [applause] >> another idea that i tried and it worked very well in georgia was he we have passed a law assigning every high school principal to be a voting register and every may as governor i called on the high schools to have a contest with every high school on who could register the most upcoming 18 year olds to be registered to
vote. >> the two former presidents were at the clinton global initiative conference held in mid-june in atlanta. you can watch the entire program tonight at 8 p.m. eastern time on c-span. up next, c-span's issue spotlight on police and race relations. >> in the new york times, obama faces growing expectations on race and policing. in the hill, obama calls for continued talks about race. josh letter man with the associated press is joining us with a head line from his story reading obama leads the u.s. policy into a talk on race and relations reluctant. >> on one hand you have people who are supportive of law
enforcement who want to see him as a leader speaking out against the violence we have seen against the police. on the other hand you have minority communities and others who say the first black president should be taking a leading voice calling out bias in police departments and trying to put an end to the black men dying at the hand of the police we have seen. the president has talked in the past, especially after the verdict, that did not convict george zimmerman, he doesn't feel it is productive for him to be leading a national conversation on race. it hasn't worked that well in the past when politicians tried to do that. but unfortunately he has found himself in a situation where there is nothing he can do because the country is calling for that kind of conversation. >> with that in mind, how much time has the president been spending focused on the police and race relation issue? >> in the past two weeks it has
taken up a bit of time. he cut short a trip to europe after the five officers killed in dallas and rushed home to go to dallas to speak at a memorial alongside president george w. bush and has been meeting with activi activists, law enforcement officers, civil right advocates and others to figure what the country can do to end the violence we have seen. >> president obama task force on 20th century policing came out with recommendations and he has met with police, activists and political leaders as recently as last month. what came out of the meeting as possible solutions? >> nothing came out of the meeting that was different than what the president and his administration advocated for. the president is saying we need to take these steps but they are steps the law enforcement community has been taken and they are not working.
some spick specific run -- some specific ones are needing more data to be made open to the possible, better training for how police officers are de-escalate a situation rather than allowing it to turn violent. >> president obama spoke at the memorial for five police officers shot and killed in dallas. this part of the memorial starts with police chief david brown and then we will hear from the president. [applause] [applause]
>> thank you. thank you. [applause] >> thank you so much. thank you so much. when i was a teenager and started liking girls i could never find the right words to express myself. after a couple words they would just walk away leaving me figure out what do i need to do to figure out how to get a date. and so being a music fan of 1970's rhythm and blues i put together a strategy to recite
the lyrics to get a date. [laughter] >> so for girls i liked i would pull out some al green or some independent grass and i would recite the lyrics to their love songs. but for people i loved, if i fell in love with a girl, i had to dig down deep and get some stevie wonder. to fully express the love i had for the girl. so today i am going to pull out some stevie wonder for these families. [applause] >> so families close your eyes
and just imagine be back in 1974 with an afro and bell bottoms and wide collar. we all know sometimes life hates and troubles and makes you wish you were born in another time and place. your lifetime and doubled and god knew exactly where he wanted you to be placed. so make sure when you say you are not in it but not of it, you are not helping to make this earth a place sometimes call hell. change your words into truths and then change that truth into love and maybe your children's grandchildren and their great, great grandchildren will tell
them i will be loving you until the rainbow burns and falls out of the sky i will be loving you. until the ocean covers every mountain high, i will be loving you. until the dolphins fly, and the parrots live at the sea, i will be loving you. until we dream of life and life becomes a dream, i will be loving you. until the day is night and night becomes the day, i will be loving you. until the trees and seas up up and fly away, i will be loving you. until the day that eight times eight time eight is four, i will be loving you. until the day that is the day there are no more, i will be loving you. till the day where the world is
burning right and left, i will be loving you. until mother nature says her work is through, i will be loving you. and until the day you are me and i am you. now ain't that loving you? [applause] >> until the rainbow burns, the stars out of the sky, ain't that loving you? until the ocean covers every mountain high and i have got to say always. i will be loving you always. and there is no greater love than this. that these five men gave their
fellow officers. scripture tells us that in our sufferings there is glory. because we know that suffering produces perseverance and character. and character has hope. sometimes the truths of these words are felt and now those words test us because the people of dallas, people across the country are suffering. we are here to honor the memories and mourn the loss of
five fellow americans, to grieve with their loved ones, to support this community, to pray for the wounded, and to try and find some meaning to our sorrow. for the men and women who protect and serve the people of dallas thursday began like any other day. like most americans each day you get up, probably have too quick of a breakfast, kiss your family goodbye, and you head to work. but your work, and the work of police officers across the country, is like no other.
from the moment you put on that uniform you have answered a call that at any moment, even in the briefest interaction, may put your life in harms way. loren and his wife answered the call not only because she is a spouse but a detective on the force. they have two kids. loren took them fishing and used to proudly go to their school in uniform.
the night before ahrens died he bought dinner for a homeless man. and the next night katrina had to tell their children their dad is gone. they don't get it yet their grandma said. they don't know what to do quite yet. michael krol answered that call. his mother said he knew the dangers of the job but he never shied away from his duty. he came a thousand miles from his home state of michigan to be a cop in dallas telling his family this is something i wanted to do. last year he brought his girlfriend back to detroit for thanksgiving and it was the last time he would see his family. michael smith answered that
call. in the army and almost 30 years working for the dallas police association which gave him the appropriately named top cop award. a man of deep faith. when he was off-duty he could be found at church or playing softball with his two girls. his girls loved their dad. patrick zamarripa answered that call. a former alter boy who served in the navy and dreams of being a cop. he liked to post videos of himself and his kids on social media. on thursday night, while patrick
went to work his wife posted a photo or her and their daughter at a texas rangers game and his partners saw it while on duty. brent thompson answered that call. spent time in afghanistan and then settled down in dallas for life as a transit cop. just about two weeks ago, he married a fellow officer. their whole life together waiting before them. like police officers across the country these men and their families shared a commitment to something larger than
themselves. they were not looking for their names to be up in lights. they tell you the pay was decent but wouldn't make you rich. they could have told you about the stress and long shifts, they would probably agree with chief brown when he said the cops don't expect to hear the words thank you very often especially from those who need them the most. you know, the reward comes in knowing that our entire way of life in america depends on the rule of law. that the maintenance of that -- at the -- is a daily work.
we don't have militias in the streets setting the ruse. instead we have public servants, police officers, men who are taken away from us. that is what these five were doing last thursday. when they were assigned to protect and keep orderly a peaceful protest in response to the killing of alton sterling in baton rouge and philando castile in minnesota. they were upholding the constitutional rights of this country. for a while the protest went on without incident and despite the fact police conduct was the subject of the protest, despite the fact that there must have been signs or slogans or chants for which they profoundly
disagree, these men, this department, did their jobs, the professionals that they were like. in fact, the police had been part of the protest plan. the dallas pd posted photos on their twitter feeds of their own officers standing among the protesters. two officers, black and white, smiled next to a sign that read "no justice, no peace". then around 9:00 gunfire came. another community torn apart, more hearts broken, more questions on what caused and what might prevent another such trage
tragedy. i know that americans are struggling right now with what we have witnessed over the past week. first the shootings in minnesota and baton rouge, the protests, and then the targeting of police by the shooter here. an act not just of demented violence but of hatred. all of this has left us wounded, angry and hurt. the deepest fault lines of our democracy have been exposed, perhaps widened and we know such divisions are not new they have been worse in the recent past
and that officer -- offers us a little comfort. we wonder if the divide in race and america can ever be breached. we wonder if an african-american community that feels unfairly targeted by police and police departments that feel unfairly maligned for doing their jobs can every understand each other's experience. we turn on the tv, or the internet, and we can watch positions hardened and lines drawn, people retreat to their respective corners and politicians calculate how to grab attention or avoid the fallout. we see all of this and it is hard to think sometimes that the center won't hold and things might get worse.
i understand how americans are feeling. dallas, i am here to say we must reject such despair. i am here to insist that we are not as divided as we think. i know that because i know ameri america, i know how far we have come against impossible odds. [applause] >> i know we will make it because of what i have experienced and what i seen of this country and its people and goodness and decency as president of the united states. and i know it because of what we have seen here in dallas. how all of you out of great
suffer have shown us the meaning of perseverance and character and hope. when the bullets started flying the men and women of the dallas police they did not flinch and they did not react recklessly. they showed incredible restraint. they evacuated the area, isolated the shooter, saved more lives than we will ever know. [applause]
>> we mourn fewer people today because of your brave actions. [applause] >> everyone was helping each other. it wasn't about black or white. everyone was picking each other up and moving them away. see, that is the america i know. the police helped taylor as she was shot trying to shield her four sons. she said she wanted her boys to join her in the protest of black men being killed. she also said to the dallas pd thank you for being heroes. and today her 12-year-old son wants to be a cop when he grows up. that is the america i know. [applause] [applause] [applause]
>> in the aftermath of the shooting, we have seen mayor rawlings and chief brown, a white man and a black man, with different backgrounds, working not just to restore order and support a shaken city and shaken department but working together to unify a city with strength and grace and wisdom. [applause] >> and in the process we have
these men, this department, this is the america i know. and today, in this audience, i see people who have protested on behalf of criminal justice reform grieving alongside police officers. i see people who mourn for the five officers we lost but also weep for the families of alton sterling and philando castile. in this audience, i see what's possible. [applause] i see what's possible when we recognize that we are one american family, all deserving of equal treatment, all deserving of equal respect, all children of god. that's the america that i know. now, i'm not naïve. i have spoken at too many
memorials during the course of this presidency. i've hugged too many families who have lost a loved one to senseless violence. and i've seen how a spirit of unity, born of tragedy, can gradually dissipate, overtaken by the return to business as usual, by inertia and old habits and expediency. i see how easily we slip back into our old notions, because they're comfortable, we're used to them. i've seen how inadequate words can be in bringing about lasting change. i've seen how inadequate my own words have been.
and so i'm reminded of a passage in john's gospel, let us love not with words or speech, but with actions and in truth. if we're to sustain the unity we need to get through these difficult times, if we are to honor these five outstanding officers who we've lost, then we will need to act on the truths that we know. and that's not easy. it makes us uncomfortable. but we're going to have to be honest with each other and ourselves.
we know that the overwhelming majority of police officers do an incredibly hard and dangerous job fairly and professionally. they are deserving of our respect and not our scorn. [applause] and when anyone, no matter how good their intentions may be, paints all police as biased or bigoted, we undermine those officers we depend on for our safety. and as for those who use rhetoric suggesting harm to police, even if they don't act on it themselves, well, they not only make the jobs of police officers even more dangerous, but they do a disservice to the very cause of justice that they claim to promote.
[applause] we also know that centuries of racial discrimination, of slavery, and subjugation, and jim crow, they didn't simply vanish with the end of lawful segregation. they didn't just stop when dr. king made a speech, or the voting rights act and the civil rights act were signed. race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime. those who deny it are dishonoring the struggles that helped us achieve that
progress. [applause] but we know, but, america, we know that bias remains. we know it. whether you are black or white or hispanic or asian or native american or of middle eastern descent, we have all seen this bigotry in our own lives at some point. we've heard it at times in our own homes. if we're honest, perhaps we've heard prejudice in our own heads and felt it in our own hearts. we know that. and while some suffer far more under racism's burden, some feel to a far greater extent discrimination's sting.
although most of us do our best to guard against it and teach our children better, none of us is entirely innocent. no institution is entirely immune. and that includes our police departments. we know this. and so when african americans from all walks of life, from different communities across the country, voice a growing despair over what they perceive to be unequal treatment; when study after study shows that whites and people of color experience the criminal justice system differently, so that if you're black you're more likely to be pulled over or searched or arrested, more likely to get longer sentences, more likely to get the death penalty for the same crime; when mothers and fathers raise their kids right
and have the talk about how to respond if stopped by a police officer, yes, sir, no, sir, but still fear that something terrible may happen when their child walks out the door, still fear that kids being stupid and not quite doing things right might end in tragedy, when all this takes place more than 50 years after the passage of the civil rights act, we cannot simply turn away and dismiss those in peaceful protest as troublemakers or paranoid. [applause] we can't simply dismiss it as a symptom of political correctness or reverse racism. to have your experience denied
like that, dismissed by those in authority, dismissed perhaps even by your white friends and coworkers and fellow church members again and again and again, it hurts. surely we can see that, all of us. we also know what chief brown has said is true. that so much of the tensions between police departments and minority communities that they serve is because we ask the police to do too much and we ask too little of ourselves. [applause]
as a society, we choose to underinvest in decent schools. we allow poverty to fester so that entire neighborhoods offer no prospect for gainful employment. [applause] we refuse to fund drug treatment and mental health programs. [applause] we flood communities with so many guns that it is easier for a teenager to buy a glock than get his hands on a computer o even a book. [applause] and then we tell the police you're a social worker, you are the parent, you are the teacher,
you're the drug counselor. we tell them to keep those neighborhoods in check at all costs, and do so without causing any political blowback or inconvenience. don't make a mistake that might disturb our own peace of mind. and then we feign surprise when, periodically, the tensions boil over. we know these things to be true. they've been true for a long time. we know it. police, you know it. protestors, you know it. you know how dangerous some of the communities where these police officers serve are, and you pretend as if there's no context.
these things we know to be true. and if we cannot even talk about these things, if we cannot talk honestly and openly not just in the comfort of our own circles, but with those who look different than us or bring a different perspective, then we will never break this dangerous cycle. in the end, it's not about finding policies that work; it's about forging consensus, and fighting cynicism, and finding the will to make change. can we do this? can we find the character, as americans, to open our hearts to
each other? can we see in each other a common humanity and a shared dignity, and recognize how our different experiences have shaped us? and it doesn't make anybody perfectly good or perfectly bad, it just makes us human. i don't know. i confess that sometimes i, too, experience doubt. i've been to too many of these things. i've seen too many families go through this. but then i am reminded of what the lord tells ezekiel. i will give you a new heart, the lord says, and put a new spirit
in you. i will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. that's what we must pray for, each of us, a new heart. not a heart of stone, but a heart open to the fears and hopes and challenges of our fellow citizens. that's what we've seen in dallas these past few days. that's what we must sustain. because with an open heart, we can learn to stand in each other's shoes and look at the world through each other's eyes, so that maybe the police officer sees his own son in that teenager with a hoodie who's kind of goofing off but not dangerous, and the teenager, maybe the teenager will see in
the police officer the same words and values and authority of his parents. [applause] with an open heart, we can abandon the overheated rhetoric and the oversimplification that reduces whole categories of our fellow americans not just to opponents, but to enemies. with an open heart, those protesting for change will guard against reckless language going forward, look at the model set by the five officers we mourn today, acknowledge the progress brought about by the sincere efforts of police departments like this one in dallas, and embark on the hard but necessary work of negotiation, the pursuit of reconciliation. with an open heart, police departments will acknowledge that, just like the rest of us,
they are not perfect; that insisting we do better to root out racial bias is not an attack on cops, but an effort to live up to our highest ideals. [applause] and i understand these protests, i see them, they can be messy. sometimes they can be hijacked by an irresponsible few. police can get hurt. protestors can get hurt. they can be frustrating. but even those who dislike the phrase black lives matter, surely we should be able to hear the pain of alton sterling's family. [applause] we should when we hear a friend
describe him by saying that whatever he cooked, he cooked enough for everybody, that should sound familiar to us, that maybe he wasn't so different than us, so that we can, yes, insist that his life matters. just as we should hear the students and coworkers describe their affection for philando castile as a gentle soul, mr. rogers with dreadlocks, they called him, and know that his life mattered to a whole lot of people of all races, of all ages, and that we have to do what we can, without putting officers' lives at risk, but do better to prevent another life like his from being lost. with an open heart, we can worry less about which side has been wronged, and worry more about joining sides to do right.
[applause] because the vicious killer of these police officers, they won't be the last person who tries to make us turn on one other. the killer in orlando wasn't, nor was the killer in charleston. we know there is evil in this world. that's why we need police departments. [applause] but as americans, we can decide that people like this killer will ultimately fail. they will not drive us apart. we can decide to come together and make our country reflect the
good inside us, the hopes and simple dreams we share. we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. for all of us, life presents challenges and suffering, accidents, illnesses, the loss of loved ones. there are times when we are overwhelmed by sudden calamity, natural or manmade. all of us, we make mistakes. and at times we are lost.
and as we get older, we learn we don't always have control of things, not even a president does. but we do have control over how we respond to the world. we do have control over how we treat one another. america does not ask us to be perfect. precisely because of our individual imperfections, our founders gave us institutions to guard against tyranny and ensure no one is above the law; a democracy that gives us the space to work through our differences and debate them peacefully, to make things better, even if it doesn't always happen as fast as we'd like. america gives us the capacity to change.
but as the men we mourn today, these five heroes, knew better than most, we cannot take the blessings of this nation for granted. only by working together can we preserve those institutions of family and community, rights and responsibilities, law and self-government that is the hallmark of this nation. for, it turns out, we do not persevere alone. our character is not found in isolation. hope does not arise by putting our fellow man down; it is found by lifting others up. [applause]
and that's what i take away from the lives of these outstanding men. the pain we feel may not soon pass, but my faith tells me that they did not die in vain. i believe our sorrow can make us a better country. i believe our righteous anger can be transformed into more justice and more peace. weeping may endure for a night, but i'm convinced joy comes in the morning. [applause] we cannot match the sacrifices made by officers zamarripa and ahrens, krol, smith, and thompson, but surely we can try to match their sense of service. we cannot match their courage, but we can strive to match their devotion.
may god bless their memory. may god bless this country that we love. [applause] after the shootings in louisiana, minnesota and dollars, south carolina senator ken scott of the only republican in the u.s. senate who is african-american k-3 speeches. you can see them all at c-span.org. the one we will watch now happened the day after the memorial for the five police officers killed in dallas.
senator scott describes his own interactions with police. >> i rise today to get my second speech this week discussing the issues we are facing as a nation following last week's tragedies in dallas, minnesota, and baton rouge. this speech is pressed the most difficult because it's the most personal. on monday i talked about how the vast majority of our law enforcement officers have only two things in mind, protect and serve. as i noted then we do have serious issues that must be resolved. in many cities and towns across the nation there's a deep divide between the black community and law enforcement. a trust gap. attention that is been growing for decades. and as a family, one american family, we cannot ignore these issues. because while so many officers
do good, and we should be thankful, we should be very officers that do good. some simply do not. i've experienced it myself. and so today i want to speak about some of those issues are not with anger, though i have been angry. i tell my story not out of frustration, but at times i have been frustrated. i stand here for you today because i'm speaking for all of us, the entire american family, to work together so we all experience the lyrics of a song that we can here but not see. peace, love and understanding. because i shuddered when i heard eric garner saying i can't
believe. -- i can't breathe. i went when i watched walter scott turn and run away, and get shot and killed from the back. and i broke when i hear -- whenever the four year old daughter told her mother, it's okay, i'm right here with you. these are people lost forever, fathers, brothers, sons. some will say, maybe even scream, but they have criminal records. they were criminals. they spent time in jail. and while having a record should not sentence you to death, i say okay then, i will share with you some of my own experiences, or
the experiences of good friends and other professionals. i can certainly remember the very first time that i was pulled over by a police officer as just a youngster. i was driving a car that had an improper headlight. it didn't work right, and the cop came up to my car, hand on his gun, and said, lloyd, don't you know your headlights not working properly? i felt embarrassed, shane, scared. very scared. but instead of sharing experience after experience, i want to go to a time in my life when i was an elected official and share just a couple of stories as an elected official. but please remember that in the course of one year i have been
stopped seven times by a law enforcement officer. not four, not five, not six but seven times in one year as an elected official. was i speeding sometimes? sure. but the vast majority of the time i was pulled over are nothing more than driving a new car in the wrong neighborhood, or some other reason just as trivial. one of the times i remember i was leaving the mall. i took a left out of the mall and as soon as they took a left a police officer pulled in right behind me. i go to another traffic light, another left into a neighborhood. the police followed behind me. i took a third left onto the street that led to my apartment complex. and, finally, i took a fourth left come into my apartment complex, and then the blue
lights went on. the officer approached the car and said i did not use my turn signal on the fourth turn. keep in mind, as you might imagine, i was paying very close attention to the law enforcement officer who followed me on for terms. do you really think that somehow i forgot to use my turn signal on that fourth turn? well, according to him, i did. another time i was followed a friend of mine when we had just left working out and we were heading back to grab a bite to be about 4:00 in the afternoon. he pulls out, i pulled out right behind it. we are driving down the road and blue lights come on. officer pulled me into the median and starts telling me that he thinks perhaps the car is stolen. well, i started asking myself because i was smart enough not
dignity that accompanies each of those stops. even here on capitol hill where i had the great privilege of serving the great people of south carolina and the united states congress member and as a united states senator for the last six years, for those who don't know there are few ways to identify a member of congress or senate. well, typically when you've been here for a couple of years, law enforcement officers get to know your face and they identify you by face but if that doesn't happen and you have a bad, a license that you can show them that you are a senator or this really cool pen, i oftentimes say the house 10 is larger because our yields are bigger so we need a smaller pan.
you can view a us senator by our pen. i recall walking into an office building just last year after being here for five years on the capital and the officer looked at me, a little attitude and said the pen i know. you i don't. show me your id area i will tell you, i was thinking to myself either he thinks i'm committing a crime impersonating a member of congress or, or what? well, i'll tell you that later that evening i received a phone call from his supervisor apologizing for the behavior. mister president, that is at least the third phone call i received from a supervisor or the chief of police since i've been in the senate.
so while i thank god i have not endured bodily harm, i have however felt the pressure applied by the scales of justice when they are slanted. i have felt the anger, frustration, the sadness and the humiliation that comes with feeling like you are being targeted for nothing more than being just yourself. as a former staffer i mentioned earlier told me yesterday, there is absolutely nothing more frustrating , more damaging to your soul then when you know you are following the rules and being treated like you are not. but make no mistake, no matter this turmoil, these issues should not lead anyone
to any conclusion other than to abide by the law. i think reverend doctor martin luther king jr. said so well. returning violence with violence only leads to more violence and to even darker nights, nights to paraphrase without stars. there is never, ever an acceptable reason to harm a member of our law enforcement community, ever. i don't want anyone to misinterpret the words that i am saying . cause even in the times of great darkness, there is life . as i shared monday, there are hundreds, thousands of stories of officers who go beyond the call of duty. miss taylor as i spoke about on monday night at the dallas incident was covered, covered
completely by at least three officers who were willing to lose their lives to save hers. we have a real opportunity to be grateful and thankful for men and women in uniform area i shared another story on monday night as well . while the one i want to tell you today does not involve a tragic loss of life, it does show support that meant a lot to me at thetime it occurred . i was an elected official at the county level and state level and a member of the united states congress and i believe it is my responsibility to hang out, to be my with my constituents as often as possible and hear their concerns. at some point during my time as a public servant, i traveled to an event i was invited to along with two staffers and two law
enforcement officers, all for a white and me . when we arrived at the event, the organizers seen to have a particular issue with me coming into the event. they allowed my two staffers to go into the event. seems to be allowing youto officers to go into the event. both said they were going and if i wasn't going in . though in order to avoid a real sense of situation, i opted to leave because there's no way of winning that kind of debate ever. but i was so proud and thankful for those two law enforcement officers who were in raged by this treatment. it was such a moment that i will never forget in a situation i would love to forget. now this situation that happens all across the country, this is a situation
that happens all across the country whether we want to recognize it or not, it may not happen 1000 times a day but it happens too many times a day. and to see it as i have had the chanceto see it , helps me understand why this issue has wounds that have not healed for a generation, it helps me to appreciate and understand and hopefully communicate why it's time for this american family to have a serious conversation about where we are, where we are going and how to get there. we must find a way to fill these cracks in the very foundation of our country. tomorrow i will return with my final speech in this
three-part series. on solutions and how to get you where we need to go by talking about the policies that get us there and people solutions because i like you mister president, i don't believe that all answers are in government. i don't think all the solutions we start in government . we need people doing things that only individuals and do. today, however i simply ask you this. recognize that just because you do not feel the pain, the anguish of another does not mean it does not exist. to ignore their struggles, our struggles does not make them disappear. it simply leaves you blind and the american family very vulnerable some search so
hard to explain away in justice that they are slowly wiping away who we are as a nation but we must come together to fulfill what we all know is possible here in america, peace, love and understanding. here it is, thank youmister president . >> senator from california. >> before senator scott leaves the floor may i say to my colleague how much i appreciate his frank discussion today. we are so blessed to have you in important book review, we don't have enough diversity here, let me be clear and as much as all ofus want the walking out each other's shoes , you know because each of us hasdifferent experiences in our lives , it really matters was in the
room, who's at the microphone , who's sharing the truth and you have shared a trip with us today and i want to say senator booker shared two of those stories with us in our caucus and it is life-changing for us and i so appreciate everything you said and it makes us better to have you and corey booker here and having said that, i came to the florida senate that there's some risk happening. the status of race relations in america today because i don't think you and corey booker should be the ones that have to carry this forward. because mister president, when i was a little girl of 10 i came face-to-face with ugly vile and stupid and dangerous discrimination area i cheered on jackie robinson with all my girl power to counteract what my dad said
was threatening that jackie because of the color of his skin and how blessed was i when i worked hard with a republican colleague to make sure jackie robinson got the congressional medal of honor. and then when i was with my mother in florida, the same age 10 years old, 1960 i saw african-americans forced to sit in the back of the bus. i got up to offer my seat to an elderly woman, she must have been 55 at the time i was 10, i sit up and she reviews me, she said no, and i was hurt and i said to my mother, what is happening here, why will the woman take my seat and my mother said segregation. well, growing up in brooklyn this made no sense to me.
my mother could have let go read instead she told me to follow her to the back of the bus not that anyone notice area but we knew exactly what we were doing and i felt part of her change part of the team against this craziness area where people have to go to the back of the bus simply because of the colorof their skin . the civil rights movement has made enormous progress in our lives but the trouble remains in our hearts, there is too much hatred in our communities but let's be clear, whether you are a police officer regardless of the color of your skin kissing his or her family goodbye in the morning or the parents of a young african-american teenager, no one mister president ever
should have to fear that they will not see their loved ones at night and yet that is a truth in america, a truth that has been lifted by a couple of our senators. no one should have to fear that they wouldn't see their loved ones at night because of this type of hatred. now is not the time to paint whole groups of people with a broad brush because when you do that, that's the exact definition of prejudice. you can't broad brush a whole community because of the color of their skin or their religion . or who they love. and you can't broad brush all the police in the police department. what we need is the de-escalation of decisions and this escalation of trust.
a de-escalation of suspicion and an escalation of trust. it is long past time that we sit together, united. it is long past time that we look inside our own hearts, look inside our own souls and banish the hatred. we must instead embrace each other as god's creation because we each of us are god's creation. doctor martin luther king", men often hate each other because they fear each other. they fear each other because they don't know each other. they don't know each other because they cannot communicate, they cannot communicate the cause they are separated.that's what martin luther king junior said. a man who taught us compassion, a man who taught us nonviolence, a man who
taught us to listen to each other, a man who taught us to walk in each other's shoes. so we need that conversation. and we started by breaking down the barriers that separate us. bridging the gap between communities and law enforcement and establishing trust. healing will begin in the streets and it should. policing should be for communities , and with the community. excuse me. when i was a county supervisor in the 1970s, there were police versus community issues so i recommended in my colleagues concurred in a new system of community policing . what does it mean? it means you get the police out of essential present and you move them into the
community. relationships develop. it seems so right, it works so well that i was shocked when i got out of local government when i realized not enough communities were following that same community policing method. what exists is cooperation and true protection of the community and is an obvious step that should be implemented widely. what can we do? we can't force people to love . we could suggest it. we can't force people to be tolerant . we can suggest it. but i think there's certain things we can do. i think we could introduce legislation with senator corey booker called the prime and which start us off by
getting statistics that we need. how many shootings are there in our communities? by the police to the community? how many shootings by the community toward the police are there believe it or not, we don't really collect those numbers. we would provide funding to states or the use of force training for law enforcement agencies and personnel including de-escalation and bias training and funding for lines and hotlines and public awareness announcements to gain information regarding use of force against the police though it is a very balanced piece of legislation that looks at the problems on both sides, secondly we need to better support law enforcement agencies who work to advance the practice of community policing. we can do that by increasing funding thoroughly for the justice department's
community police and development program. that provides law enforcement agencies the funding to implement innovative policing practices but guess what mister president? the funding is critical for the program which may well be one of our most important priorities, million dollars a year, that's it . for the whole country, if not enough, we need to do better. third, we should provide dedicated funding or justice department's programs to initiate formal gatherings or summits to bring community members and police into one conversation, anyone who looked at that would understand how hard they are trying, how much they have done and when i saw president obama with mrs. obama and president george w. bush with laura bush, i was so happy , they are starting that
conversation . the building of that trust, the tearing down of that suspicion, one of the founders of black lives matter, and we should garces", we have so many different experiences that are rich and complex. we need to bring all these experiences to the table in order to achieve the solutions we desire and anyone listening to senator scott or anyone who's heard the stories or read some of the words of senator booker, we have a lot to learn. united states senator being stopped, he said seven times this is i heard senator scott say, in one year? because of thecolor of his skin . it's just too much for these people to bear and we need to help them change policies
that lead to this suspicion. yes, we have so many different experiences that are rich and complex and we need to bring those experiences to the table. my friend the senator from alaska is here. she and i are, we are only 20 women out of 100 and i think that our colleagues understand we have brought clubs into the body. we have brought our experiences to the body and it transcends artisan ship when we are in the room with a little bit of a different conversation because not that we are any better but we have had different experiences and when our african-american colleagues tell us look at our lives, look at what we have been through, we have the same doubt as you read why we are pulled over seven times in a year why have we
been scared? is something wrong? and we can't turn our back on it and we can't leave it up to just those two colleagues to lead us, we need to help them. and work together and have this conversation that alicia bars says we shouldhave . for, we must formally recognize and encourage police departments who epitomized what it means to be a keeper of the piece, a keeper of the piece. that's what they want to be. those officers who attend community meetings after work, who spend their saturdays playing basketball with the neighborhood kids, who attend church services so they can connect with the congregants, who take lower income children shopping for toys and gifts at christmas, who stopped to check in on residents just because they care, that is happening all
over the country. that's why we can't pay people with a broad brush, it's wrong. in my state, in the community in the bay area san francisco bay, you should see what some of these officers do. . they had a growing divide between the community and the police and the police department knew something had to change so they invited the public to participate in those changes.they held open door community meetings. they created a citizens advisory board to ensure their voices were heard. they invited residents to experience their training simulator and give them a new perspective on what police experience, see it through our eyes, they said and let's see it through your eyes and
let the escalate the tension and escalate the trust. they put a high importance on hiring officers who had a connection and wanted to serve thepublic. they even started a late-night youth program at the local high school . they started changing within that community. so i think we should have a community policing innovation fund at the justice department which would reward law enforcement agencies and localities who are doing the right thing. we just heard senator barbara boxer talk about her proposal to create a community policing innovation fund at the justice department's, josh letterman of the associated press, what are other members of congress sewing on police and race relations?>> we seen a lot of members of congress taking an interest in this but it's difficult to find solutions that can happen as a result of new laws, so much of this has to be done in communities but is some of what you seen
is already conversation about that congress has thought about for some time, criminal justice reform which is the subject of bipartisan interest suspect here that congress has yet to really be to make a lot of press on, the other of course being in control, something the president has thought about a lot, democrats have talked about a lot but last month senator republicans locked in an attempt by democrats to pass legislation that would prevent people who are on the terrorists from buying guns, leasing other challenges for democrats on that issue as well bipartisan policing strategies working group met for the first time, tell us a little bit of a group this is an effort that was started by the top republican on the house judiciary committee and also his ranking member, the top democrat on the committee. they've been discussing some of the things that congress could try to do to try to find solutions for this but in the middle of an election
year when things are really getting heated and you have a political issue like this that's so controversial, there is not a lot of optimism that congress is going to move on something major on anytime soon. >> president obama recently signed the active shooter training bill, what exactly does it do? this is a piece of legislation that allows law enforcement departments to access federal funds to improve their training for active shooter situation. that's important to note that it creates any new funds, these are existing federal funds that can be directed to that effort. congress passed this with little fanfare, the president signed to do any kind of major ceremony but cited in private and it's now become law. >> several senators including john cornyn, ted cruz and john phyllis have introduced the back the blue act. what would that do? that legislation would create minimum sentences for people who are targeting law-enforcement officers and you see that coming from republican members of congress such as senator cornyn trying to show in
light of these incidents that we had that they are taking an active role in trying to protect law enforcement and do something proactive about the issue as c-span issues like continues we willhear about on families encounter with police in washington dc , then the city's police chief takes part in a panel on law-enforcement perspectives. it begins with five minutes of a documentary on the incident . >>. [inaudible conversation] i'm going to let them ride their bikes for a while so i said okay. i will show up shortly after work to meet you at your mother's house. i got to vicky's house at about six. we were sitting in the backyard just you know, joking around. mom came and cj asked me could they ride their bikes
around for like five more minutes. so i said fine. >> i'm sitting on the couch in a house and i hear my mom banging on the door. hey, the police are outside. as we are coming out the door you see three white police officers walking towards my son putting their gloves on him. >> like the gloves that you put on when you want to run somebody up or frisk somebody or, just work gloves. he walks over to the fence and puts him on it. you, come here. me, you know, being a dad walk over and tell my son hold up. >> calvin stopped them and said you're not going anywhere and why do you want to talk to my son? x and he was like, who are you?i said i'm his dad. is it a problem? first of all i wasn't calling
you. second of all, we got him for fleeing the scene and this is what he said, we got him for fleeing the scene so i said okay, you got him fleeing the scene of what? he said he didn't do anything but when i called him to come here he kept on going and didn't stop for me. >> he's riding a big bite with three wheels, a tricycle by like for your grandma. >> the thing is if you run from them, i was going at a steady pace. a pace that if they really wanted to get me they could hop out of their car and walk at the same pace area when i was turning to come into my grandmother's back alley, they said that right then that's when they told me to get on my bike but i heard no police. i didn't even see a car they have an explanation like the boy is down here running from
the police on the bike. >> that gives us the right to stop and search your son because people work from our bike. that's not probable cause about somebody's child are you supposed to say okay, fine, come on in and you can search my time. why? >> he tells me just you getting up in my face, i should lock you up right now. so i said since i'm up in your face, so i backed up and that's when i said look, can you call your supervisor because this is getting out of hand, the station is right across the street. i would reallyappreciate if you called your supervisor . i just need some money to talk to that's not angry right now. >> i didn't know what kind of distress signal he sent out but he said a distress signal which led to i don't know, 30
or 40 police cars winding up in front of my mom's alley. >>. [inaudible conversation] please backup, please. al. he's a 15-year-old. for a 15-year-old, here on his bike. you're a 15-year-old. he's on the honor roll. the andre, i need you to come here. he's a 15-year-old, what? why? why? they can't tell me, i can't do this. a 15-year-old.
115-year-old, joe. what? [police sirens] [inaudible conversation] >>. [inaudible conversation] now he's just now saying this, now. >> i was taking it in like all of this for a bike with no lights? >> if that's what you wanted then why did you need to search him or do anything else? >> a 16-year-old. four 115-year-old. 115-year-old. one. the one in the black shirt.
what did he do? [applause] let's talk about what we sawbut before i do let me introduce who i have on stage, you will recognize some of them . kelly amos, the founder and filmmaker and the founder of lawmaker films and carl s davis, she is here and almonte harris and calvin davis area these three you have seen on screen and what was it like to, i imagine it's probably difficult to watch this over and over and over again, i was backstage with you and i want your shoulders, yours in particular. , it's so emotional recapping the feeling.
>> when you look back and think about what could have happened, is there anything in your mind you think what is the one thing that might have stopped this from escalating to the point that it did? >> so when i was back, i think that what could have changedit is the police actually listening to us . we just wanted to know why was it, why is it that you want to search our son? and if you just listen, just talked to us and we might have said okay but then again i don't know because i don't know what the reason was. it's just so frustrating and. >> the reason we see all this is because her sister was going on this. >> my sister was building. as soon as it happened she started selling just because of the way ... on the cell phone, the way the three cops approached her she pulled out
her phone and started selling . >> kelly, you have actually had, you had a relationship with this families for some time. you are not drawn to this because of this incident. >> know and calvin was the last person on earth i would ever expect would have interrupted. we were already filling the family and continue to, it just followed my case through his growing up in high school and beyond, also filling his cousin and his parents and it just happened during the time so since ialready was family and i knew the story , thank god that this was filmed because i don't knowif we be able to tell it well if she hadn't taken a video of the actual arrest . >> so you cannot just tell it but it would be my wondering if it would be hard to even get people to understand what happened that night. >> if you weren't able to see, not to see but to listen to the discourse that night.
>> listen to how people were talking. >> you hear the term assault on a police officer, that brings up a very specific idea. >> how do you question the police officer, he spoke. he said why do you want to talk to my son? why are you putting your gloves on? why did you follow him down the alley, he was riding his bike on the sidewalk, why? is that illegal but the mark is that fault? >> part of what we get to do here is sort of this understanding avalon to what you didn't see in the film is what happened after this area you are actually taken into custody. >> yes . >> and then as the case proceeded you were given a choice , you were offered a deal . >> yes and the deal was that i can do 32 hours of community service and the
charge was somewhat expunged so i said 32 hours of community service. >> why did you do this when you felt you had done nothing wrong. >> when i went to court the next day the man appointed me like a court appointed lawyer and i'm thinking you know, this is a small case. i think the court-appointed lawyer and the court appointed lawyer , his words were it's your word against the police officers word and nine times out of 10 you are not going to be this though take the 32 hours, community service and get it over with . >> did you wrestle with that before you decided to do this, did you talk to parlett or talk to parlett right away. >> i talked to carla about it but i think i had a week, a few days in between times trying to go back to court area and she really wanted me to just find. but i grew up in dc my whole
life and the interactions between minorities and police officers from what i know and have experienced is never good so to me i just wanted to get it over with, you know, just be done with this part of it, go on with my life and after the 32 hours of community service just be done with it, >> where did you do your community service? >> it was a landfill. the department of public works landfill, right on michigan avenue and it was, they gave me i want to say two months to complete every two hours and my own pace. so i think i finished it within the first month prior to going back to court.i did eight hours for four consecutive weekends and that was at the landfill,cleaning
up trash . >> so you fulfill your community service and the deal was that wouldbe expunged from your record . >> right. >> has it been removed? >> well, not innocent. me and my wife recently went through some family changes and we have adopted two more boys. >> great. >> to twins. [applause] and the process of an option, i don't know if anyone here has ever been through it, it's a strenuous court part of it and. >> they do a fullbackground. >> they do a full fbi background check and it came up . and luckily ... >> hell were you informed it had come up?
>> you do a fingerprint, fbi background, you do a fingerprint check and luckily it wasn't one of the things that will stop them from doing the adoption for the twins, for my wife and i but the social worker let me know that it came up. >> and you had to explain it. >> i had a chance to explain to her because the salt on apolice officer , you know, this typically to me his physical violence against a police officer so i got a chance to explain my part of the story to the social worker asked how will you eventually get removed because that was part of the deal? >> i don't know. there's something that they call expungement and you have to physically go to the court from what i've been told and from what i've investigated myself. you physically have to go to the courthouse and set some type of date and in some way you can get like a trial where they will expunge all of your records but right now
. >> and you want to do that. >> of course. and you write these letters, they said it would never be removed from your record, it will be filled but it's something you can't go into but that will always thought on his record. >> is not expunged, it's just sealed so with all only certain people can see it so like it you want to do extensive background check, i.e. fbicheck , i think it will, if you want to do just a local policing check, i don't think it will. >> if you are going to apply for a job, it will, >> and because, when you have to if you are asked if you've ever been convicted ofa crime ? >> i don't think life the paperwork part it said that you've ever beenconvicted of a crime because technically i wasn't convicted . but just for purposes, i probably would put yes just
so if it comes up then i can explain to the employer. >> so you put yes to the thing that come up again and again and once you put yes you have an opportunity to explain that to an employer or do you go in that pile . >> right, that's what obama is doing now. >> monday i want to hear from you if you don't mind, the police officers involved in this, we should say there will be police officers on stage soon and we will talk through some of these issues and i'm sure we'll have something to say about what they seen in the film but the police officers forward an incident which means some of the gentleman there in that back are people that you might see as you move around the neighborhood, what those encounters been like for you? >> i haven't really encountered any of the police officers that were in the video recently , just school on work, my brother.
>> and we had a chance to talk backstage and said you never ride a bike anymore. >> not necessarily never ride a bike but when it gets dark, when i can say i didn't have a light on my bike, i'd rather just walk. >> so you don't ride a bike at all at night? >> just take a walk. how do you as a young person process something like this because you live in a community where as you said many people feel like there are encounters with law enforcement and their prickly, negative, leaves a bad taste in their mouth, sometimes leads to going to jail for reasons that are curious but at the same time there are people in the community who say you make our streets safer, you know, there are some people who need to go to jail and we want to make sure the police come down hard on them so we can set on our front report and enjoy a summer evening so that the kids can go ride our
bikes and play kick mccann or kickball and things like that. so what would you say to those people in the community who might look at this because there are some who would this is kind of aggressive policing that is sometimes needed west and mark. >> it's needed for the situation that is needed for. the riding a bike without a life i don't think that the situation that is needed for. [applause] >> i don't think that the situation. someone getting hit by a car or getting shot for staff, that's where i think they should be but they're not there when something like that happens. [applause] it's just crazy like, the other day i'm on my way to school and me and my friends and were walking and the officer turned on my friend and he walked over there, he went and said what are you looking at?
so my friend is like what westmark he said what are you looking at and i was with his badge on and everything so i said just come on and we just went to school and that's uncalledfor in that situation, that's not call for . >> that's my first time hearing this, that outlet has been where is he. , where is he you know? >>he told his mom and his mom asked me . she says she's on it, you know? [laughter] [applause] >> have your parents given you the talk? >> what talk? [applause] >> i guess, pardon me. that can be taken a few ways but when you leave the house, particularly now after this encounter, do they tell you, do they give you advice? this is how you should care
yourself, these are the dues and don't, what you think about that, what are they say you question mark. >> every day, come back home. family first. have assured on, have work on the subway. >> every day. we had an eight-year-old who mimics everything he does. you want to be, you won't wear pants hanging down, he thinks that's for weirdos. but you know, there's all this has happened, my eight-year-old tells us, he is terrified of the police. and we can drive probably behind us and he will be working in say as the police find us? i will say it's okay, your seatbelt on and we are fine but he is actually terrified area . >> he was right there. >> how do you inoculate that?
how do you deal with that because you want your son to be afraid of the police? >> no. >> i don't want him to be afraid of the police because again, it is a situation where you do want police in your neighborhood because you have the kids out here committing so many crimes and there are so many things that you do want the police in your neighborhood and you do want your house to be able to go up and see the police and let them know the police are here for you but then after he was in this real-life situation, how do we tell him that? >> how do you tell them that? it's no secret, don't be scared, i can't tell him anything so that's my police, it doesn't matter, let me know and i'll handle it. >> you know any of the police officers in your community by name? >> no. >> there was one but he retired. >> i'm not asking you to be provocative.
>> no. >> on. >> what does that say? >> it says a lot, actually. you know, i was having a conversation with kelly the other day leading up to this event. when you get those officers and in theseneighborhoods , , your duty is to protect and serve . and i was telling kelly, talking to kelly the other day and we are having a formal conversation and i said when the officers come to the neighborhood, they say things like civil duty is to seek and destroy. really, that's what seemed like because the encounters like there's no positive encounters. >> how do you fix them because when you talk to
police officers and i talked to many feel that they face the wall of distrust or hatred and they would like something different, they would like to figure out how to bridge that gap as well, there are people who are doing innovative things , trade leaders at yale and chicago police officers interviewing young people in the community and vice versa, almost in story for fashion and it's interesting what they can actually say to each other if there alone in a room and had a chance to talk . in birmingham alabama the police chief was sending police officers into schools at a young age to lead students so that students would see a police officers bad and see his name and they would get to know young people and as they grew up they would remember. he likes curious george, whatever. and some of those things are met with derision, like soft approaches to policing, but the steps, to those kind of things make any sense to you? >> they do, you know those things. >> i wanted to point out that prior to the incident both
calvin and raising their children to be respectful of the police . this sort of negative in monday's side, the actually can't remember how many times he has been approached by police in dc . walking his dog, riding the metro and playing with his son and at the next stop the police are there waiting. >> i don't want the idea that , the police are here for you, they are the good guys and you see the rest of the film you hear them talk about that. so i think when you talk about having the community, there is no accountability right now. the only reason this is is because somebody put it on cell phone footage , even after he was arrested, even after the sergeant injured find out, what actually was happening and what had happened he spoke and still
went charging calvin with two crimes so i think where does it stop? that's incredible. how did everyone watch this and allow it to happen? when he got arrested he said well, he will be let off tonight. i'd be nervous when he will be let out tonight but then when he had the interview, he decided, the cop decided no, we want you to stay and that's exactly what they told him. the arresting cop wants you to stay tonight. >> itwas two charges . it was assault on a police officer and tampering with evidence. i wanted to know what the evidence is, are you calling my son the evidence? >> kelly, you've spoken tothe charge of assaulting a police officer and it is notalways physical in nature . >> know and after , in the process of making the film and editing it i read a report here by wan you about
assault on a police officer and how the law is so be in the pc that nearly 4000 people have been charged with assault on a police officer in dc and overcharged between 2012 and 2014, 90 percent were black. the majority of them were not charged with anything else so you can use a lot that just by talking to a police officer you can be charged with assault and there's nothing else. what is happening? and they're all black citizens. how can you expect the mate to believe in respect and institution that teaches like that, that teaches them like that and that is something that is being discussed right now in the police force and it will be interesting to hear from law enforcement officers when they take the stage. we don't have much time left but i wanted to make sure there was time for a couple of questions and you got your head up so fast.
>> very much, this is been a very heavy panel. i want to say that as a citizen i'm sorry for all this. i want to say and tell ms. morris that you have to teach your children, tell your children to not look somebody in the eye, i'm sorry about that. they are is something wrong with america. i have a question. for young man, i like to know what you want to do when you grow up smart what do you want to be?>> thank you. >> thank you for your questions andobservation . [applause] >> actually i'm in my last year of high school right now. [applause] so i'm actually, i
like a scholarship for that. [laughter] but i'm actually thinking about doing into the dc fire department but still going and taking college classes at nova, university of nola to get my degree, i don't think the fire department is enough, i still need my degree . [applause] another question) here, it's hard for me to see. and the girl over there. >> hi everyone. i taught last year. [applause] i was surprised when i saw it on the agenda. my question for you is is there a parallel structure to
see with institutions of police there parallel issue with education? yes, how do you see it? >> i don't really see it as a problem with schools . but it gets in the way. i understand the question. i understand the question. but as far as, i don't know about being good at the police, every day. so don't get in the way. you just have to be stronger, you have to be, you got to want to go to school, you got to know that when you go to school you might get into one of these situations and have to be above it and know what you are doing. >> since were going to have law enforcement officers on stage soon and we could go on but we have to move on to the
next i will end by asking you the question that they might consider answering. >> as far as law enforcement? >> if you had a chance to sit down and law enforcement. what would you want to know about their job or what question would you post? people who work in law enforcement . >> why was my stepdad arrested? why was i arrested for a crime because i didn't have a light on my bike? what was the charges for? >> is there anything you would ask them about how they do their job, not just about that night? calvin, what about you? >> what question what i have? i would want to know, like kelly, i did is not just for the case, i do my research about you know, the issues with the us and they change
that law and in 2007 that i've read, that ppl was assaulting a police officer. i want to know why in 2007 was exchanged to be so vague. prior to 2007, that law was pacifically assaulting a police officer, hands-on assault with apolice officer. after 2007 , i just want to know why did the law becomes obeyed where people cannot actually get locked up for a long time, lose your job and not be able to get a job because of that law? what happened from 2007, 2007. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you. >> no.
hello everyone. i'm really excited now. i think in most of my writing i deal with in this era of attention to police misconduct and police brutality i deal with people on the other end of it. and i tend to hear one side of it so i'm very privileged to be here to talk to actual police officers who actually deal with the work and i'm hoping we can get a different perspective and get to some of the things that we've been seeing, maybe talking about in this country sometimes, public unity area i'm here with ron davis who is the director of all the way to my right, the community-oriented police insurances that the department of justice.
deputy mayor who was the chief of police for washington dc. and we have virginia mcconnell who is a complete officer on the beach in camden new jersey, a lot of questions for you. >> i want to start with chief libby because i want to get this out of the way. we had a panel of folks on the cell incident that happened. i viewed it myself, i think all of us who have seen it as citizen thought it was disturbing and i wanted to give you an opportunity to respond . >> i have seen the video, i've seen part of the video, not all of it and i know there's some production going on with the finishing the film. course when i saw it i tried to do some research, where their complaints filed by site recently and it happened that i believe in 2012 so the first thing i did was to see
about that interaction. anytime a standard action between a community member and a police officer it ends badly. it's a lot of ways again and badly in this case you have a family or a father who is saying my kids are now afraid to go to sleep. to me that is bad, so anytime i see anything like that it bothers me. because there are too many positive things that police officers do everyday and interact with the community for one incident to change a families perception and we have to make sure that doesn't happen. so i also think in terms of watching what i saw, it just takes one or two small things to change the tone of an encounter with a police officer and sometimes it is the tone of the police officer and sometimes it's the way you say something or how you say something or your
body language wheel -- when you approach the circumstances at the time but once that tension starts you know it tends to not stop. and so i think the fortunate thing for us police officers to remember is to be conscious of the way you approach people in and the way you speak to people. being very respectful ending counters and requests if it's not a crisis it's not a dangerous situation request verses demand. those things changed the dynamics a little bit. you decide how people decide that uniform. the uniform doesn't decide that for you. >> i actually right now when you
are in an interaction with the community member, do you try to communicate with them? let me share something when you are actually out there. spin it my main approaches to engage with the community and aspects how their day is going. as i'm walking my beat on a regular daily basis i will will engage and say hello, how are you doing, good morning and how is everything with you and engages in a conversation. so my main approach is get to know my community where i work at because if something happens there they are more likely to speak to you because they are familiar. officer macchio works here, i know her so they feel more comfortable. >> you talked about the fact, tell us about being a police officer. >> i always wanted to be a police officer but several
things happened when i was younger and older. when i was growing up my mom had a convenience store and i was in kindergarten at the time but she was robbed at gunpoint at her little grocery stores. she always tells the story about that and it was scary because i could have lost my mom that day and as time went on a lot of my other family members owned a small grocery and one of my uncle owned a small grocery in kansas. he was robbed and shot and he died from that wound so that really impacted me. it hits close to home because i lost a loved one from an act of violence so i think from their i did up making a change in my community and i felt like i wanted to help him and make a difference. >> do you feel like you have
made that change? >> yes, i do especially with the children and changed theirs perspective may be. i don't know what encounters their parents may have had so when i speak to them and they are like hi officer how are you doing i want to be an officer, i think that's great especially a female and also when you engage them you change their perspective. they can decide themselves how they want to engage with you. >> i'm interested and i wonder as a young person i don't know your background or what your relationship was like with the police, what your perception was with the police. did your parents have a talk with you and i don't want to put anything on you but i wondered what your experience is like. >> let me start by saying officers matias is being very modest. she is not only an outstanding
officer but she recently had a meeting with president obama with five other officers and talk to him about what it's like to be a rank-and-file officer and what community policing looks like and it helps shape the views for the administration of what a good policeman looks like. [applause] for me my father was a cop so the good and the bad side of this you asked and i may get myself in trouble here. i had protection that a lot of men of yonk -- men of color don't have. when i decided to be youthful and knuckleheaded like most young men are,. >> young people. >> i have two daughters so i stand corrected, absolutely. but now i'm a father and i was a cop for over 30 years and worked in the administration.
now that i stand here as a father my son just started his freshman year in college and i remember when he first got his license i was faced with a dilemma that every parent has especially with the young man of color in the family and that is to have a talk. that is what to do and stopped by the police. i see that being proud of the police and i say that thinking that the overwhelming majority have done a tremendous job and continue to do a tremendous job. as a father i still had to have that talk so now that my son is in college i have more worries now. one is that he gets stopped as an implicit bystander and threatening just simply because he's a young man of color. he recently.stopped which is interesting after we have to talk and he said the talk went very well. he got a ticket so that part didn't go very well but nonetheless he got the ticket. now i start to worry he's going
to northwestern and he's in a major metropolitan metropolitan area in they have to worry about violence in getting caught up in getting her to fight gun violence and the worry that every father has that is will he bring me another grandchild before he is ready. so i was not really when i grew up i didn't have the same set of challenges. in that case i grew up a little more privilege but i had a father, i'm concerned about it and as a society it comes down to one question. the number one question we have to ask of the police chiefs whether community members, all of us white black across-the-board is how to view our young men color. if we use them a threat a lot of things become different. reaching for a driver's license is no longer a reaching movement.
youthful exuberance becomes woeful to finance. a lot of things come out of our fear of our biased so we struggle with that is a people quite frankly and we need to answer the question how do we treat everyone with dignity and respect. [applause] >> we were talking about a theory of mine. we live in a society right now where it strikes me as an observer that police officers are called into situations in which you know maybe bringing someone into the criminal justice system in invoking it positive criminal justice system as i said to you i particularly think about that case but there are so many cases like that for you can see other societal things going on, some sort of drug issue or may be a public
health perspective. it actually starts with the child support system and that's not to excuse the officer but that's their. often it's a mental health issue that's behind it and i wonder what is your perspective? do we has police officers do too much? >> police officers have been pushing back on that for years and years and years and really policing has become the analogy, policing has become the the 24 24-hour mcdonald's of services because we are the only 24/7 three and an 65 days a year out there in the community available when crisis hits whatever that crisis is or when something has to be solved. the police will handle it and to some extent the community if they don't know who to call they
call the police so yes i think there are a lot of things that we as police tried the best we can to frame and prepare for but they know they're other people that are better at providing both service at providing both service and if we do get the police out of that business we would. so i think that's part of this. we really have to look at enforcement and laws and important versus regulation in some cases. regulation is one thing. you don't need a badge and a gun to regulate things. >> can you make that concrete, what do you mean? >> there some things that are violations of regulations for officers are sent out to enforce so like minor violations, business regulations or maybe even minor what is criminal in some cases, single sales cigarettes and things like that so these things do we really need to have a badge and a gun to enforce or are these things
that are more regulatory that can be handled through a civil process? it eliminates the potential for things to go bad. i think there are a lot of things. we certainly need the mental health training and i think we appoint people in a mental health crisis. if people in this country knew they had a loved one who was in a mental health crisis that they could dial another number other than 911 and get a mental health professional out that knows how to deal with that. the police officer has been trained that has been trained in a 40 hour course to try to deal with that. >> let's make sure we have the discussion and we go beyond the arrest. for example for the first time in 2014 we solved our crime rates in arrest rates go down at the same time so as a community we have to accept that arrest is not automatically equating to public safety. we have to take a look at her sentencing and how long we are putting people in jail. it's a scenario that we are
seeing bipartisan support. you can be in jail for an extended period of time costing us 80 billion dollars a year and that is money that could be reinvested into providing services. we are paying more to keep young men in jail than to give them a full scholarship to harvard so we need to look at our priorities and adjust accordingly so we are preparing our young people across-the-board for society. we need to convince ourselves that we don't fall for the temporary satisfaction that comes with a lot of arrests have been made. so many problems are not created overnight and they're not solved overnight. they require the police department and the public safety working together to make the image t. safe. if you asked the police to do it it's asking to build the house where everything looks like a hammer and a nail and goes in one direction. >> i was a criminal justice
partner and there is a discussion about investing in drug treatment and once people get into the system and really the solutions in the criminal justice partners is for us to put ourselves out of business. it's not ultimately the goal, is that you should have the investment long before a person gets into the system so how about the investment of prevention before you are incarcerated not after you earn cursory to because now it makes the challenge even that much more difficult. [applause] more investment and social services and less investment in police incarceration is probably the long-term solution. >> i have got to ask you, you alluded to this bipartisan moment, think there's a lot of interest overall and criminal justice reform not just police.
i wonder, not i wonder, i think that consensus has been built up. we are in a moment for compared to 20 years ago crime rates are lower than they were but still we have heard quite a bit about this effect. it is a moment where you have the black lives matter movement and activist filming police officers and it affects some of the crime scene in our cities. it's in direct relationship between those two things. you've heard this from very high places in our government and i wonder what you guys think of it. >> one is i think we are starting to see spikes in violence in certain cities around the country and we have an obligation to do the research to find out why. in response to crime looking to the root causes of it. the notion that suggests that america's finest that your look in here on the stage somehow are not doing their job i reject and i don't think that's what's happening. the automatic connection between
the activity and crime we note the history, we need to find out more data, we need to do research or me to ask the tough questions but we need to have a calmer station so that we can have the courage to ask the tough questions come up with the answers. although we are seeing a spike this is still a midsummer 40 and 50 year lows and crime so before we assume there's a national epidemic of violence we should take a look at what got us here. what's hard anchor me as i'm listening to my colleagues and others in the chief saying we need to do it by not trying to arrest our way out of crime and using social services as an option. the idea that policing in a democratic society means that public scrutiny is the foundation foundation of eu must demand the community hold the police accountable when that's
the only way it can work. [applause] the greatest exertion of government authority is enforced by the local police so it has to be criticized and scrutinized and evaluated. we just have to do it fairly so officers are treated with dignity and respect on all sides of the story are heard before we make our judgments. >> i agree with that. >> before we go to questions i'm going to put this to you very quickly. as you walk out and you are doing your job and you see folks filming you on their camera phone, does that affect your willingness to do your job? >> no, i act the same life i'm on camera or off camera. i'm always professional and treat everybody with dignity and respect. >> i think we have time for one question. here we go.
>> if both officers were in the video what would you do differently or what would you do? >> you're asking about the dash video? i have only seen bits and pieces of the video. i sought it just a few days ago but i will say this, in 25 years i have been policing here and i started policing here in the 1990s when they really had a huge violent crime issue in the district and relationships were not very good with the police. i learned very quickly that sometimes the simplest of things concerned are normal and counter with a police officer in a community member in a bad direction very quickly. it's the tone of voice or the way you approach a person and the way they perceive the way
you respect them and that goes both ways. i've seen it perceived lack of respect from the community member by a tone that an officer uses and i see the same reaction from a police officer who feels feels -- so you know you just have to come i have to say i. >> the majority of my career making sure i'm art -- always conscious of somebody in a crisis situation that i'm respectful of the fact that i'm in someone's community where there is ice -- already something bad happening that i have to be the one that makes the effort to be respectful and to bring things back down so we can have a reasonable discussion first. >> we have time for one more. >> the question is largely for officer lanier. i'm a committee organizer and i was at a community event last
sunday where we were harassed by police officers and we headed sergeant causing a scene in the sergeant continued to harass the other organizers. i was de-escalating and i asked the sergeant about the tone and the level of respect. i said i'd never been in -- because he was yelling at the citizens. she turns to me and says we don't have de-escalation training, we have verbal judo and i say can you speak to what verbal judo is and why we don't have de-escalation training for the metropolitan area? [applause] >> the first question i would ask and you don't have to answer it, if ever you have an interaction with the police officer and you don't field is appropriate for any reason i would encourage you to make sure that you file a complaint so that the police department can
look into it. you don't have to file the complaint here so someone can take a look and see what happened and addressed the issue. before de-escalation was called de-escalation, because de-escalation has been taught at police academy since i have come on and it's evolved there for the years and we try to teach it while we are in various different area based training that we have been doing it for many years. verbal judo was one of the best de-escalation trainings that there were out there and i was taught nationwide and was very effective. i don't know whether was sarcasm or white without having known what happened. de-escalation training.
it was a different name. i'm sure you know ron. >> it's been around since the 90s. you redirect energies so you're redirecting anger and de-escalating so you are talking herself out of the situation. that is what was designed to do but since that time it's been updated and modified and gets into real training were you can trust it. it's going back a few years. >> we have current training so when i go for annual training you still put them through de-escalation training as a part of their ongoing training that if you haven't talked to somebody about that encounter or you want to give me the information or talk to somebody i would encourage you to so we can look into it. >> saving money and training and
is as that term isn't that the recent appears that black people and others are being treated less than human as an animate? >> let me start with that one. for a lot of people here i would say even my bosses we provide a lot of grants for hiring and we have silly support hiring veterans. these are young men and women who are sacrificing their lives for the country and if we have an up addition to help them return back to the community and to provide support to them. we also know that in many cases the military understands the disciplinary process. i think it's training not the idea that its veterans. keep in mind as a volunteer force the diversity of that force is pretty strong in one argument is, i think it would be , i would be cautious about making that assumption. i think where i would agree with you is we have to be careful that we don't militarize the
police but even the military will tell you that they are using different tactics. >> the military is teaching community policing and the military service does not afford you any opportunity. you still have to have the same hiring requirements. you still have to go to the same police academy so it doesn't lower the -- and what it does for me is that allows college credit requirements. some of our young men and women go into the military and i don't know and the support folks an opportunity to come to the police department using their service in the military in exchange for the 50 college credits which they can get when they come to the police department. [inaudible] >> ease our local community members and they are as i said the military has been training community policing for the last
eight to 10 years. >> if i could add there's a feeling that they are being treated as the enemy. that may be the case where you live and the challenge of trying to look at community policing is change that. the only thing i would say is a don't think it would be attached to one segment of policing. i think what i would take a look at wherever there's this feeling is the training of all of your officers how they are held accountable and how they are relating to the community. as a former police chief, looking at the men and women who have come into the service on a veteran in my daughter's veteran and there's a sense of duty that can be very positive. that doesn't excuse the department not engaging in non-supporting and treating the community right but i think we should be cautious before we make that automatic link but i understand your concern. >> thank you. thank you very much.
thank you guys. [applause] >> thank you so much. >> both of the candidates have seized on this as a major issue in the campaign. donald trump has dubbed himself a lot harder candidate. he is trying to show his tough on crime he supports law enforcement and he will be there to support police officers when they are in these situations. he is spoke critically in situations where people who attacked police officers have not gotten harsh sentences and so he's really trying to take the hawkish point of view on this. hillary clinton has taken a
slightly different approach and she is being support of law enforcement but tried to address the issue in the concerns that a lot of african-americans have had. we sought the democratic convention a full display of trying to show support for the black lives matter movement and other activists who are trying to say this can't continue to happen and we have to do something about it. >> host: how important is this issue of police and race relations in the 2016 campaign overall? >> guest: certainly very important. we don't know how many voters will make up their mind based solely on this issue but as one of the biggest issues right now and it's one that really stuck to the heart of a lot of concerns for people. so we know that both candidates are talking about it almost daily on the stump. they are releasing ads to discuss these issues and they are trying to make it part of the core message about why they are the best prepared to lead the country through the difficult time we are in.
>> host: here is part of what former st. louis police officers told the students at the university of delaware about what he saw on the job. >> i want to share some things with you about my experiences when i was in the department and then i will get to my remarks. to give you a sense, a foundational sense of some of what this movement that you have seen growth from ferguson all the way round the world has been vilified wrongfully in so many corners is really about. so early in my career, i was working with an officer, a female officer and this also happened to be a white female officer however i will tell you that not only wide officers
abuse their authority come you have black officers to do it come asian officers that do it, which is consistent in black and brown communities and sometimes more white communities across this country. we got a call and it was a call for an officer need of aid. anybody who is on the law enforcement in the room and a buddy who knows law enforcement means it's a very serious call. all officers and geographic range of this call stop whatever you're doing and expedite to put out out the aide call he or she is in trouble, serious trouble, could be so this officer put out an aide called. he was chasing a suspect in the armed robbery and he was calling out where he was. the call comes out we expedited
to his location and we see the officer who put the aide call out. we don't see a suspect. we see the officer bent over like this when did, breathing hard treated we go to the office office -- officer that female officer asked him, what happened, are you are right? yeah i'm okay, i'm all right. he is breathing hard. did you see where the guy went? where did he go? we were on the street in north st. louis missouri. that is the black side of st. louis missouri. this is a long block of houses, a long block and he's bent over like this and he did like this. i think he went in that house. he picked the house. at random. we go up to the house, me and
the female officer to get to the door. she is banging on the door. she had her flashlight, a big black flashlight hit the doors hard as she could. open this door, open this the store. i'm not going to use the language. do we know somebody's in here and we are coming in and we don't know if anybody's in the house or not. from the back of the house with a ruckus we created in the front of it we see a shape began to approach the door. the wooden door, glass in the center and is moving about this speed right here. slowly getting to the door. the door opens. standing in the door a kid about 19 years old african-american and i'm standing there with his female officer. mind you i'm 6 feet feet 8 inches and i'm out of shape right now but at that time i was
working out every day. i was about two and 65, 270 single digit odd effect and i had on a short-sleeve shirt that was a size medium. [laughter] and it was that small on that small on purpose so i could look like i was bursting out of it. [laughter] he opens the door and he looks and he says lady, i don't know what you are talking about. i live here. i have lived here all my life. everybody in this block knows i have a family. i'm here by myself right now. my family is not here but you've got the wrong house. i guess that was the wrong answer because as soon as he got those words out of his mouth she grabbed him by his throat snatched him out of the doorway and took him to the edge of the porch that we were on.
the porches are elevated on some blocks. use go to the edge of it you know you were going to fall from here to the floor. the fall maybe 10 feet. she took him over to the porch and she cracked him right in the face. i'm looking at this and if somebody hits you like that and i have shared this incident 100 times the high we save someone hits you like that generally speaking you are going to do one of two things. you are either going to put up your hands and try to block something else that may be coming at you or you may offer up some discouragement for that kind of behavior but given this is a police officer that's not likely. he put his hands up and i don't know she thought he was trying to engage or what but she hit him again come into up to the face, to the. she's hurting him and this is happening fast.
so i see this and at this point, picture this grabbed a uniformed officer in my uniform and take her to one side of the porch. i told you it was an officer in need of aid called which means every officer in the area expedites to his location. he had canceled the aide call which slowed him down some but didn't slow him down completely exists if you understand police work you know people want to see what the aide call was about. here come the rest of the officers. now off the steps of the porch comes as black officer. he comes up the steps and the officers are at the front of the house. he looks at me and looks at the veteran officer and he goes over to her, what's going on, what happened? what's going on here? she points at the guy that is building where she left him in the middle of the porch.
that's so-and-so, he assaulted me and try to interfere with what i was trying to do. the black overseer says oh yeah too? she goes up to the guy and says man, get up. she looked up at him and said, you see i can't get up. the officer said man, get to fill in the blank up. the kid said man, i've told you i can't get up. he grabbed him by the shirt victim up, slammed him into the house of his face was against the house and his hands were behind his back and he cuffed him up. he cuffed him and he immediately hits the house. he says now get down and get in the car because i'm taking u.n. for interfering with an arrest. the kid is leaning on the house looking at him prayed he said man, i will never forget the look in his eyes. a mix of anger, hurt, surprise,
fear, all of that so he is looking at this brother in front of him thinking, why are you doing this to me and he said it one last time, he said man, you see i can't go. the officer said, he dropped down and grabbed a kid by his ankles. if you have your hands bound behind your back, and you can't move and somebody grabs you by your ankles and pulls you up as hard as they can purchase a link what do you think happens? you hit your head pretty hard, don't you? and he did antidrug and down the porch and down the front of the yard and threw him in the car and we got back to the station and we were all in the sergeants room. we all get into -- the female officer said that me tell you something if you ever interfere with me again while i'm doing
police work, i will never ride with you again. i'm thinking that's rad a pretty good idea. i'm with that. the other officer, me and him go back and forth a little bit the sergeant comes in and here's what's going on squash is the whole thing, we have work to do. we don't have time for this and we all went back in service and that was that. we -- what always bothered me about that encounter, what always has stayed with me for the very whole thing was the reason the kid kept telling the officer you see that i can go. you see i can't go. the reason he was saying that was because when he first came to the door and saw me and the other officer standing there and he cracked the door open he was standing bear on crutches.
she smashed him off his crutches to do that to him. and nobody was in the house and it was his home and he was in violation of the law. no law. i have one more for you to set the foundation and then we will talk. anthony collins, a young kid 21, 22 at the time, 2006, comes to us and it's brought to our attention. an assault committed on him by police officers in st. louis. at a traffic stop one of those check when situations where they set up the check point and every call that comes through has to stop and he is at the checkpoint one night and he stops the
officer but the officers at a distance and he can understand at some point what the officer is directing them to do or what he wants them to do. and so he gets out of his car to find out more about what he needs to do. he has somewhere to be there he gets out of the car, the officer says get back in the blanket he blank car because he needs somewhere he needs to be. he approached the officer in attempt to explain that so he can move to the checkpoint. instead of offering an explanation for his simple act of noncompliance which these days can get you killed. the officer proceeds to assault him physically, he mesas him, chokes him with that mace eyes
burning and they are getting ready to arrest him for assault on an officer again or resisting arrest. anytime police beat you up they charge you with resisting arrest. i don't know if you knew that or not. anthony please his case and at some .1 of the supervising officers arrived and a decision is made to finally lead anthony get attention -- medical attention which they initially denied to him and to release him. this was largely due to the fact that some point they realized that the assault that the officer committed on anthony had caused him to miss his flight back to iraq for his second tour of duty in the united states army. i interviewed anthony at length and here's anthony this black kid, the soldier, described to
me how he felt that he had no rights here in the united states that anyone were bound to recognize. the police had always treated him this way and his family this way including his mother was disappointing to say the least. these kinds of experiences are part of the daily lived reality of black people everywhere in this country particularly in the urban cores of america and you need to fully understand and when you see black lives matter, this is what they are talking about. it's not the only thing they are talking about but they are talking about the real lived experiences of people and they are tired, we are tired. this is generations old.
fathers and sons, mothers and daughters have all experienced it going back to who knows when and there has been zero count ability for any of it because as police officers we can always fall back on that narrative of heroism, sacrifice, risk, some of the favorite words of many of the most public police apologists that you see all the time in the mainstream media. people like harry hoc the former new york city detective, the town crier of police apologists, people that justify anything that the police will do on the street. this is where we are. equal treatment under the law is an american narrative, not an american reality and we are going to have to dig deep within ourselves and i will tell you this to make the discussion more comfortable, let me say this and
not just in this room but nationally, for the nation. here's how to make this racial discussion and we talk about black-and-white but we have other races in this country too. black and white though here's how to make that discussion more comfortable. understand this, except that and we can move forward through the problems i'm talking about here tonight and i talk about in all the places that i discuss them when it comes to race and racism and institutional racism and our history with it, no one in this auditorium tonight is under indictment for white people in the room, is under indictment to any of this. why? because you didn't create the conditions. we were all worn into this reality. it was like this when we got here. this is what we were born into.
trust me it was like this when you showed up if you are alive now. our responsibility is to acknowledge further what that reality is, not the narrative, the reality of our history is and then do something about it collectively together. that is what will allow us to have this discussion. i was told i only have 30 minutes and i know i am getting there. there is things that we can do to change the dynamics between the police communities that they serve, the police community relationships in the breakdowns and it was the genesis of the movement that we see and of course it is expanded to include discussions of race and its impact for the talk about education employment, health care, you name it.
but relative to policing communities, the first and foremost peace that we have to address is accountability, accountability. they are are are ready to give good training. i heard people talk about this training, we have great training already that officers receive it is worthless if you don't have officers who aren't held accountable when they don't, eric garner, murdered while officers violated their own policies to take his life and nobody is held accountable. accountability is everything and it starts from inside the system one of the things that i would like to see at the national coalition of law enforcement justice and reform, and a way to
new york one of things i would like to see us become involved in is a movement within the criminal justice system itself nationally, starting with people who come from affected communities black and brown communities who work in the criminal justice system, judges, attorneys, police officers, corrections officers wherever you are in that system. we can demand changes we want to see relative to how it operates in our community. there are enough of us and it's right. we have the moral high ground here. that's one of the things that i would like to see. another thing that i think would go a long way towards resolving some of the issues we have seen is a special prosecutor. in all cases involving use of force by police officer resulting in serious injury or death. the relationship between prosecutors and police
departments are too close to have a reasonable expectation that prosecutors are going after in the officer in the department that they work in alliance with almost 100% of the time. bob mcculloch is a prime example of this. he was recently sued after mike brown's case, recently sued in the last month or two by a grandeur that he removed from the grand jury because he thought he had a propensity to look at things differently pray he's a former aclu attorney. i think i know who he is. they haven't announced his name publicly but i'm. sure i know who he is. they took him off the grand jury in violation of state law. you don't think they don't decide who gets justice and it doesn't? which leads me to my next point in cases involving police misconduct or use of police force or result in serious injury and death that limited the grand jury.
yes, laminate the grand jury. it's a secretive process that in too many cases involves police misconduct resulting in the elimination of accountability for police officers because the prosecutor has advocated for the officer by the grand jury so they don't have to be tried on the facts. it is better have the arguments for indictment take place where the public can be present. the last thing i would tell you is to support the movement that you see. it's an american movement. lp afraid of black lives matter. these are young people who are american system with a right to be recognized and their right to live and their right to dignity recognized and it's not negotiable for them.
it's not up really for discussion. they are citizens here too and they fully understand the history, so as i close my remarks on first of all amazed that i got through it. i thought i was out on my feet when i walked into this room. they ran me ragged today i'm telling you. i had no idea what i was in for when i got up at 4:30 this morning to fly to delaware but i'm glad i came and i appreciate you giving me your time and valuing what you thought i might have to say enough to be here tonight and i look forward to -- he said the questions need to be respectful and they do but nothing is off-limits. you can challenge me or you can ask me or you can say because i believe in free and open dialogue is the best way forward and thank you for your patience with me tonight, thank you.
[applause] was that too long? >> no, you are fine. thank you so much for being here. you are the final speaker in the series we have a had all semester long about race in america. we talked about the black lives matter movement and we talked about the civil rights movement. you are here in this unique role as having served as a police officer and now kind of speaking out against this uncivil things that you stop it is the co-founder of the national coalition of law enforcement for justice reform and accountability, and long name, how did you go from being a police officer to holding those same officers accountable? >> it wasn't a huge transition when i came to the department. they came at the same ideology, the same personal philosophy,
the same disposition and everything about me was the same when i joined the department. i am who i am. i was profoundly disillusioned though, more than i was before when i became a police officer. i became profoundly disillusioned with the police department and some of my colleagues and i knew i had to stop being a part of that system let be clear about this because i realize i haven't said this tonight and i think it's important that i do to the police officers. there are good police officers. there are good people doing a very difficult job under very difficult circumstances and having to make very difficult situations and they deserve our support because it is a tough job. my contention is that the number of officers that will willfully
abuse their authority and your human rights and your civil rights is too big a number to not have a system that policy response in place to deal with those people but there are good officers in the country. >> and we will defend american jobs and american workers by saying no to trade deals like the transpacific partnership and unfair trade practices. >> pennsylvania has lost one third of their manufacturing jobs since the clintons put china into the wto.
>> this will well us together and the cause for more jobs for our people, for exports, for our markets and for democracy, for her allies. >> the fact that historically the united states simply was not a free trade nation for most of american history, the u.s. is in fact a protective economy. this goes back to where constitution. >> at the time the wto was being negotiated or is evil smaller cistern after the north american free trade agreement 800 more pages of specifics rules and regulations, my book would be very different.
when these are being negotiated the u.s. had official advisers, 500 corporate advisers. >> a number of house and senate primaries across the country today and we will be covering the results from the wisconsin first district where house speaker paul ryan is running for a tenth term against business executive paul nehlen. here is more on that race. >> host: theodoric meyer good morning to you. just go good morning thanks for having me. >> host: will start in wisconsin with all eyes on paul ryan in a primary contest. how serious of the a challenges this today and what are the predictions? are we going to see another eric cantor repeat here?er >> guest: this primary has certainly drawn a lot of attention but i think almost no
one expects ryan to lose or even come close to losing today. he has a huge cash advantage, av nearly $10 million in cash on hand in his campaign account compared to less than 200,000 for his primary challenger paul nehlen. >> host: and when were those numbers dated as obviously they would have to spend them like today if they're going to make their point before election day correct? month. >> guest: yes, yes as of last month but there's no indication that ryan is spending heavily which you know you would expect him to do if he thought he was going to be in real danger. the polls have also shown brian with an enormous lead. >> host: as people are watching the returns come in tonight when are we expecting to know about that ryan race?nds ow >> guest: it sort of depends on how long it takes. most accounts but i wouldn't be surprised if the ac called it shortly after returns start
coming in. as you mentioned people have paid a lot of attention to this primary in part because house majority leader eric cantor's lost two years ago in virginia which took washington sorted by shock but if anything i think the press has sort of overcompensated here treating someone who is really a longshot candidate as may be a bigger threat. >> host: are you expecting any comments from donald trump tonight? he became a figure in this primary campaign in the last couple of weeks. >> guest: donald trump did weigh in a little bit saying, complementing paul nehlen goingd out of his way to do so but it appears that his spat with paul ryan is over and i wouldn'tpa expect him to weigh in on behalf of somebody who was getting the the -- out of the primary.
donald trump by the way his only officially endorsed one republican primary in the house so far this cycle. that was the g.o.p. rep renee ellmers in north carolina whohe was one of the only incumbents to lose a primary so he doesn't exactly have the best track record here. >> host: lets look around the four states and the other races happening today. and the incumbents in danger of losing their primary tonight? >> guest: no, this has been a pretty good year for incumbents defeating their challengers. on the republican side there've only been three who have lost so far nobody has lost so far to a tea party ask challenger in the way of mr. nehlen. >> host: there is also a competitive primary happening in minnesota's second district seat of retiring congressman johnine kline said to be competitive in november swing state.
what's going to happen there tonight and how is that general election shaping up? >> guest: yeah there area couplo couple of different opens the primaries that are expected to see tonight one of them in minnesota where republican congressman john kline is retiring and mr. kline has weighed in on the half of one oe the candidates is sort of a late date but i think it's expected that lewis will be the favorite there and also in wisconsin state districts where republican congressman reid ruble is retiring. this is the seat that democratss see as a top target if they wanted a chance to regain the majority this fall. there are two republicans facing off their for the chance to hold onto that seat. one of them like gallagher a former marine is the favorite. >> host: you mentioned
democrats looking ahead in thed fall to the possibility taking control of the house. our democrats putting in place the candidates necessary to take advantage of a wave if it develops this fall and is the house and play? >> guest: democrats would certainly say they could be in play although they have shied away from making really bold contention is that through going to do through in part because they just do not have a huge number of phrases when republicans retake the house back in 2010, they ran a huge number of candidates who had fairly substantial resources and then many of them one where his democrats would have to prevail and almost all of the races that they are competitive in to retake the house.
so, it's expected to be sort of a tougher climb for them. and there there are two primaries as i mentioned, the one in wisconsin's eighth district today and the one in the second district which takes in the minneapolis suburbs where they will have to win in november if they want to have any shot at all of taking theak house. >> host: theodoric meyer is a pro reporter for "politico". thank you for your time. thanks so much. >> guest: thanks for having me. check the polls close in wisconsin at 9:00 p.m. eastern time and we will bring you the candidates speeches live in a happen on c-span. >> are in the last term the supreme court ruled 6-2 and moaning of public worker based on the real or mistaken assumption that the work engage in any political activity
violates the first amendment. the issue in this case was whether the first amendment protected the least officer jeffrey heffernan since he wasn't engaging in first amendment speech or association. the court rules that it does. in 2006 mr. heffernan of paterson new jersey detective was spotted picking up a lawn sign in the local him or his race. the next day he was demoted to a b copy it. >> there are good versus morning case 141280 heffernan v. city of paterson new jersey. >> mr. chief justice and may it please the court public employees have a right not to be demoted. it does not matter if you are affiliated with the specific party or you are not affiliated. it does not matter if you are mistakenly perceived by your