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tv   Book Discussion on From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime  CSPAN  August 10, 2016 9:30pm-10:29pm EDT

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these terrible experiences off myself and people close to me. i'm still trying to reconcile these. so i wonder if you have been ae victim or people close to have been a victim of a serious crime of the type i have described in my experience. if so -- >> host: thank you sir. let's hear from our author. >> guest: that is a very thoughtful response that i appreciate that. i empathize with your victimhood and what you have been through. i personally, no i have not been a victim. i victim. i talk about this in the book. earlier i mentioned that i start the book in rwanda focusing on victims and the needs of victimt and continue that threat throughout the book. i firmly believe that victim should be at the heart of our criminal justice system.he i would say to you that you deserve to live in a society where you are not victimizing clearly that is not the case.
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it's incumbent upon us to build a safer community, not through prisons that don't build safer communities and in my belief in the belief of many people love looked at this issue, and likewise, you deserve to be served well by a justice by a justice system as a victim in terms of restitution and reparation and healing and all of the things that victims are deserving of. . . i think many of us do and i think also believe in our capacity for empathy being tremendous that we can empathize with victims and build a criminal justice system that serves their needs well. host: let's hear from jim in temple, texas. go ahead, jim c3 hello. caller: one of the things the public should know is that it is so expensive that many people go ahead and take prison and then of course, we need to consider people coming out of prison should get a little bit of
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credit for having paid their so that they don't have too lo lose. >> you are bringing up an important issue which are the issues of probation and parole. i'm glad you mentioned a whole lot of work being done right no around again the way that we have -- there were justice system of capitalism and people having to pay massive fines and probation fees and ankleankl monitoring devices. it's a tremendous way in which there are fees associated and we are criminalizing poverty and all kinds of ways and again you are addressing the ways we permanently stigmatize someone. we are suffering because you
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cannot live as a productive citizen, when you are permanently stigmatized. social services, all the things you need to be a productive citizen and education. there's a great movement now about banning the box which you have to say there are many around the country that required people to admit their status and create all kinds of restrictions on discrimination against them. we are not serving anyone well by doing this and not to mention recidivism rates are not so revealing because in fact both of the people are going back for violating parole which is often so restrictive and so sort of illogical to not allow people again to become different
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citizens and rebuild their lives. >> host: barbara has been our professor of english at criminal justice and the author of this book incarceration nation's security justice and prisons around the world. >> thank you. she speaks of politics and prose bookstore in washington, d.c.. then 10 p.m. eastern, "after words." she argues the u.s. is splintering into two countries called coastal america and flyover america and her book flyover nation you can't run a country you've never been to. she's interviewed by the fox
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news contributor and townhall political editor. >> it seems in so many ways not just the flyover nation although i think they are targeted, you have this back and forth and right and left that are pulling them in one direction or another and it goes back to we need you to show up and vote and we want you to support it. but that is kind of scary because now politics is affecting whether or not we are going to be able to defend ourselves against a major threat. >> journalist monique looks at how policies are having a negative impact on the lives of black female students on her book push out. she argues that schools and other institutions that are supposed to help are the places that are criminalizing girls. >> to continue to follow wherever you are.
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it's free to download from the store. get audio coverage and up-to-the-minute information for c-span radio and television and podcast times for the popular publicaffairs books in history programs. stay up to date on all the coverage. in her book from the war on poverty to the war on crime, professor elizabeth looks at the rise in the u.s. prison populations and she talks about her book at the harvard university bookstore. this is one hour. thank you for joining us today. on behalf of harvard bookstore, i'm very pleased to welcome you to the forum on the new book
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from the war on poverty to the war on crime and making of mass incarceration in america. the series takes place on friday afternoon during the academic year and the way to highlight books in a range of scholarly fields. the next form this evening featuring malcolm sparrow presenting his book on policing reform. to learn more about this and the other upcoming events, join us online or pick up a copy of the flyer next to the door on your way out. today's talk will conclude with time for questions in a book signing at the table. we have copies from the war on poverty in the next room. we are pleased to have c-span book tv taping today's event. when asking questions please note you will be recorded in a please wait a moment to talk to
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you before asking the question. it's part of how we say thanks for harvard bookstore purchases to support the series and ensure the independent bookstore. so thank you. three i'm pleased to introduce today's speaker. elizabeth is assistant professor at the department of history and the department of african-american studies at harvard. with poverty and racial inequality in the 20th century she is coeditor of the book the new black history revisiting the second reconstruction and her essays have been published in the journal of american history, the journal of urban history and time. today she will be discussing her new book. the guardian called it a magisterial new history and brooklyn magazine writes is a
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timely book that traces the countries industrial complex back to the social welfare program created by lyndon johnson's war on poverty. this history is heartbreaking that it's one thabut it's one tn enormous percentage of the country. we are so pleased to host here today. please join me in welcoming elizabeth. [applause] thank you for the introduction and for hosting me and including me as part of the series. it's an honor and a privilege to be here. and of course thank you for coming out today. i know it is an incredibly busy time of year but it's overwhelming to me to see so many colleagues, friends and students who i know are in the midst of their finals, so thank you for coming out. this book is the first account
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of national crime control policy and has the rise of mass incarceration in the united states. the guardian in its review called it kind of a prequel that is done in the groundbreaking jim crow and i take that as a compliment. it's the product of a labor of love and justice records and the finals of the kennedy johnson nixon and ford, carter and reagan administration. when i began the project i had to make the case to others why we need a policy to understand it happened in the aftermath of the civil rights movement and now especially in the past two years these issues are in the forefront of the discussions and at the center of the democratic side of the current political campaign. so even the fact that you are
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here shows the course of time i've done this research to a moment where we are in terms of coming to terms with these issues and the consequences of the issues that have been made over the past half-century in this country. the book is deeply rooted but i thought i would read from the epilogue that is called reckoning with the one. i hope you will read the book. it provides the first narrative account of the rise of mass incarceration but if you don't get to read the book you only read part of the book i hope everyone will walk away with some of the implications that it took me a decade of research to come to. i want to share some of these with you and we can go into the conversation about the implications of the book and the directions for the crime control policies and reform and questions about the book itself. i want to especially welcome questions about the board and
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the carter administration because there's been a lot of focus on the johnson administration and rethinking the war on poverty rightfully but they are kind of important in setting up and laying the groundwork for the kind of crime control and prison infrastructure that ronald reagan is into when he took office. the epilogue reckoning with the war on crime. the transformation of domestic policy in the united states followed a historical pattern in the shadow of emancipation the national policymakers stopped at the extension of the formal quality and instead of new criminal laws and penal systems emerged in the form of contact lee sings. the systematic criminalization and incarceration of the freed people and their descendents shaped local and state law enforcement practices from the beginning of the reconstruction in 1865 until the start of the war on crime in 1965. after the dismantling of jim
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crow as militarized police forces in the apparatus capablee of sustaining a new threshold of prisoners, the development of the earlier period matured into a different approach of the social control and state authority. approaching equal opportunity and crime control programs in the society satisfied that all policymakers desire to expose poor americans to the values while suppressing the groups of antisocial and alienated black youth that they blame for the collective violence in the second half of the 1960s. national priority is shifted from fighting the black youth poverty to the crime for the remainder of the decade as policymakers introduced new patrol and surveillance measures in targeted communities. in the programs that provided a concrete means to access decent shelter and education and employment.
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they developed the groups that have the opposite impact in the cities and neighborhoods they placed under siege as one of the most disturbing irony i ironiese history of american domestic policy. by the time ronald reagan took office, african american africae become vulnerable on two fronts, the struggle against one another, and the struggle with the institutions and policies that federal policy makers developed to fight the war on crime. together the strategies that a law enforcement program committees are programs i describe in the book so i hope you will learn about them in more detail but these include preemptive controls that aim to catch robbery is in progress, sting operations that created underground economies, juvenile delinquency policies that criminalize the generations while decriminalizing the white counterparts and firearm sanctions the broad federal law
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enforcement authority to the streets and career criminal court units have created an expedited criminal justice system and security programs that made housing projects resemble detention centers. all of these facing the trend to internal violence and incarceration. it gave rise to the social welfare institution with statistical discourses and pathological understandings of poverty serving as its intellectual foundation. it affects the federal governments long globalization of the war on crime permitting a particular type of social control, one that signals the target of the rest of the marginalized americans and subsequent creation of new industries to support this regime and control him on the central characteristics of the policy in the late 20th century. the decisions policymakers and officials in close as part of a larger coalition made up the
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highest levels of government had a measurable consequences. however unintended of some of those choices may have been at different times and different political moments. ultimately however, the bipartisan consensus fixated on the policing of urban space and eventually removing the generations of young men and women of color from the communities to live inside. we can excuse the actions and choices the actors made as a product of their time or as an electoral tactic that by doing so it will continue to avoid the enslavement that prevent prevene nation from fully realizing the promise of its founding principles. until recently the devastating outcomes. it ended with the civil rights movement and the united states had to move beyond the system of exploitation. exploitation.
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alongside the tremendous growth of law enforcement over the last 50 years, the black middle class surfaced and african-americans assumed position with greater visibility with the 1970s. the discourses of the pathology and personal responsibilities even further making it seem as though the systematic incarceration of entire groups of racially authorized citizens reflected the order of things. the fact that some have substantial wealth and capital doesn't mean historical racism and a quality has ended, which i'm sure isn't news to many of you in the room today. african-americans grew after by the time of the 20th century the access of the highest households were $7,448. only $448 above that of the
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fifth of households and the black middle class has always been concentrated in the public and social services where ability is tied to the state spending on domestic programs. celebrating the inclusion by the activists and their allies into classrooms during black history month every year the fact that many of the critical reforms of the period has been negated by the priority is remain unrecognized. for instance, nine years after the passage of the voting rights act the dawn of mass incarceration, the supreme court ruled it unconstitutional for the convicted felons the right to vote. they've consistently removed from the rules o rolls of her se 1974 richardson ramirez decision and saying nearly 6 million americans most of whom had already served their sentences are deprived of the franchise. as a result of the racial disparities in american policing and criminal justice practices, an estimated one out of 13
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african-americans well not vote in the 2016 election due to a prior conviction. because of the enfranchisement and the policies behind it. to make the situation worse, it counts people that are incarcerated in the state and federal prisons as residents of the county where they are serving time. the count in turn determines representation. for the areas are the homes of minorities in the u.s. population they are home to the majority of prisons. in other words, urban americans who tend to favor democrats because of the disenfranchisement that tend to favor republicans dean extra representation because of the prison system works. meanwhile, as the mother but he remained stagnant for many of the neighborhoods are more segregated today than they were before the civil rights movement.
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we must revisit the principles of the representation and poured a glass roots empowerment that guided the development of the great society in order to begin moving towards a more equitable and just nation. the johnson administration included representatives organizations in the administration of social welfare programs the program proves to be fleeting. the initiatives that had been designed by the grassroots organizations received federal funding directly while increasingly required to include public officials and municipal authorities in the top-level positions following the uprising in 65. before the community action programs were given a chance to work on a wide level and for an entire community rather than the individuals, federal policymakers decided to fund them and switch the course. they took on a more prominent role in urban life and social services in the neighborhoods. one can only imagine what the
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united states might look like today as a bipartisan political consensus that lies behind the principle of maximum feasible participation that steered the war on poverty community action programs with the same length and level of commitment as they gave to the war on crime. others became unraveled in the context of the civil rights and antiwar protests federal policymakers held them accountable for the turmoil and the instability and took the wrong policy turned opting to deployed militarized police forces in urban neighborhoods and to build more prisons instead of seeking to resolve the problems that caused the unrest in the first place. once the nixon administration moved to terminate and increasingly partnered its activities within the law enforcement assistance administration, community involvement in federal social programs looked largely relegated to the law-enforcement realm. even within the crime control apparatus only about 2% awarded
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the irving police department for other community-based programs. the white house and the justice department were far more interested in supporting measures that stimulated the omnipresent control defensible space and new law-enforcement technologies in low-income neighborhoods while using the police productions and anti-doping from the initiatives with the social welfare program. due to its own assumptions about race and its unwillingness to describe the hierarchy that has defined the social political and economic relations of the united states historically the bipartisan consensus did not believe that african-americans were capable of governing themselves. nixon expressed the sentiment overtly and there's never been an adequate black nation the president said and they are the only race of which this is true and dynamic send's comments have
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been getting a lot of press lately but another quote i have in the book is more telling about the intent behind the policies of the administration. in a less conspicuous form, it iis acritical component of the administration's punitive program. the authorities refuse to fund citizen groups such as the link to improve the home that advocates strategies that were very much in line with the commitment of the administration but thought to implement the strategies without oversight from police and public housing authorities. when ronald reagan took office, the rhetoric vanished from the domestic policy arena, never to return except to change what i know we have been talking about. stemming from the punitive shift in the urban social program during the previous decade over the course of the 1980s, law-enforcement officers came to the primary and inside areas, the only public social services
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residents. as the first line of contact between the government authorities and the public the police officers assumed various duties depending on the groups of citizens they are charged with protecting throughout the 20th century and into the 21st police controls are expected to guard property from outsiders and segregated low-income communities on the other hand, they are task is to search for suspects and remove offenders and potential offenders from the streets. the disproportionate number received criminal records and prison sentences as a result of the differential approaches to the public safety data policy make her his enshrined in the crime control legislation. by introducing greater numbers of the mostly white police officers in the nation's most isolated areas, the policy is polarize both presidents and law enforcement authorities. only 4% of those foreign police officers who fought the war on crime in 1960s and through the 1970s were of african american descent.
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although the figure in the over representation both in the national arrest rate and inside the prison system. james baldwin observed the impact of the dynamic as early as 1961. the only way to police the ghetto is the practice involved nobody knows my name. the police officers represented in his words were the force of the world and that criminal needs to keep the black man here like the occupying soldier and brutally hostile country. they went on to observe the police officer faced a daily and nightly who would gladly see them dead and he knows it. they lay not in the individual police man but in the systemic forces that support questionable and sometimes deadly police
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practices. in the development and the socioeconomic circumstances yet the officer had few alternatives but to act in the manner in which she or he had been conditioned or trained. more than a half-century after the insight of the practices and the mass incarceration have become the foremost civil rights issue of our time. instead of being fro being commd by the citizens must be empowered to change their own circumstances and they must be fully integrated into the public institutions that all levels. crime control is a local matter. they should be responsible for keeping their own communities safe. various national reforms such as police body cams continue the use of taxpayer dollars to fund new equipment for police forces can't practice that began with the law enforcement assistance act of 1965. the militarization is a policy
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path of that is consistently ity proven highly unsuccessful at the crime reduction strategy within the nation's enormous complex. now is the time to try new strategies from the review board to the autonomous programs for the at-risk groups of policymakers originally labeled outside the service economy that will enable us to be entrenched in the civil liberties violations that exist in the criminal justice system as well as the persistence of inequality in the united states. during the series of demonstrations in ferguson missouri, the law-enforcement authorities are dropping tear gas bombs on protesters and civilians alike. ferguson looks like a war zone prompting discussion about the punitive domestic policy
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priority is among thpriorities l public scholars and policymakers. the citizens and the general accountability for those doing the 2,014th i'm going to say their names contribute to them. and then he held, by a hall, walter scott, freddy gray. they set a new climate for the social movements and federal action. it ended in the loss of each of their lives and thousands of other citizens that will never be known and wouldn't have existed and put up an entirely
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avoided had federal policymakers decided to respond in a different way to the civil rights movement and the enlightened purpose of the 1960s. questions of intent over the degree to which federal policymakers all the consequences of the choices they made with respect to urban social programs and communities are only relevant to a certain extent. the issue was to uncover the series of decisions that made contemporary mass incarceration possible in order to discover our own actual history. the domestic policies at the center of the book shaped the lives of black women and men in the communities and these policies will shape the prospects even if the criminal justice system is transformed once again. this will not resolve the problems even if all of the citizens serving are released
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for the sentences of writing 58 federal prisoners which is a step in the right direction but the united states would still be home to the largest system in the world and as long as the ase remains at the forefront of the policy it remains focused on the citizens of color and their impulses of the last half-century. the cycle amount of poverty that of racial marginalization, socio- economic isolation and imprisonment is ever more likely to repeat itself. thank you. [applause]
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[inaudible conversations] dot remedies for the racism and structural change. it stems from the mass unemployment. the transitions are during the period where johnson's war on crime is from a vibrant industrial manufacturing sector to outsourcing much of this labor. so in the communities where the
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police officers and federal government began investing in augmenting the police force and a new level of police patrol these communities are placed under surveillance when really this job creation program as i mentioned in the epilogue we don't get a job creation program to give low income people do kind of opportunities. so, structural solutions in terms of creation and rethinking education systems and investing in education and going beyond the remedial programs, the kind of meat on the war on poverty solves the programs as the officials say it's more about providing training to low-income americans without thinking about whether the job training could lead them to get a job after they've completed the series of training provided by the war on poverty and other social welfare
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programs. >> you mentioned the job requirements and educational. >> dot police officers, one way to approach a different rethinking of public safety is to have the police in the communitieand thecommunities the for keeping safe. so instead of having people come into the community that they don't livbut theydon't live in d arrest people. this may be romanticized to you and challenged. it's where we think about police officers that lived on the block they were responsible and this
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is before the era of the professional modernized forces, and i think there is a different level of responsibility to the communities when you are policing your neighbors eventually instead of people don't really know or understand. >> i was wondering if you could identify or look at a statute changes that would be needed because there was protection inherent in the system of the police practices in the law and the statute. we have among the most onerous in the country and they worked for the defense did you see the criminalization of the poverty. how do you see that happening where the statute changed in addition to people how do you
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see that fundamental legislative statute change helping the district attorneys? >> it gets to the way that i ended the book coming out to movhow tomove beyond the war on. what gave rise to the mass incarceration isn't just incarcerating people for really minor offenses were things like drug possession, the kind of extent of the american punitive miss. there are those serving life without parole sentences as large as the population in japan and is a accompanying these gestures that we made and rethinking the way that we prosecuted the war on drugs we also need to think about the ways in which our sentencing practices themselves in the
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provisions like the mandatory sentences etc. and the widespread use of the sentences which some people view as another form of the death penalty. we have to rethink the american statute if we want to think about really enacting the meaningful criminal justice reform come and then of course as we mentioned the first line of contact between the criminal justice institutions we have to think of policing practices and if the police are meant to take on greater roles especially welfare and communities as many forces have been asked to do much the result of federal policies, then we also have to change incentives in the police department so they are reworded just as much for the work they do for apprehending suspects in high-speed chases and meeting their quotas etc.. so we have to think of the
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draconian sentencing and the general police practices that have been sustained for the past 50 years. >> do you see this as viable? >> i think everybody should vote in this election. they should vote for those in our own interest in bringing forth the study we want to see. but it's also -- i hope new research and understanding of these issues especially qualitative research can help us come to a new avenue for possible change. >> how much do you believe they are documented or approved by the communities i think those --
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id talks about the members of the community in better policing and better control over the time in the large violence. >> i recently co-authored an op-ed in "the new york times" with my colleagues respectively that address this issue because similar arguments have been made about the rise of the rockefeller drug laws and the drug bill. they kind of rationalized their support of the bill saying this is what they wanted and so this is kind of a democratic process at work because we are giving black constituents what they are asking for. but in its narrative it obscures the narrative to which they called for greater protection.
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they call for those that are also accompanied with critiques of police brutality for the new employment programs and crimes in the prevention and despite these larger demands that included a critique of the police brutality and aggressive law enforcement in the low income communities and that's took into account the larger socioeconomic factors that contribute to the crime and violence. policymakers only responded to the demand of the punitive program. as we say in the op-ed, residents called for better policing, and politicians heard more policing and that's what they got. this is a historical trend. despite all the demands that the black activists have made, what they end up getting from the state tends to be doin. doing a diff
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if program law-enforcement crime control programs. it was published in april i believe last month. >> i've ask yoi would ask you ty something about carper because so much has been done on the recent situation in the '90s and the role of the clinton administration and so tell us what happened. >> one of the things i argue in the book is that deregulation in the administration and the even stronger partnership forged between the public and private sector to solve social problems really begins to take hold in new ways of the administration. so we can see the transition to kind of the key regulatory policies of the administration emerging in the prior
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administration and i think that people don't necessarily discuss carter in that way. so, it was after johnson to nixon and ford administration we don't get this involvement as it i mentioned in the epilogue and to focus on addressing urban problems such as employment education etc. but with carter ends up doing, and this is reflective of where the goal priority is where and funding allocated by the time he took office you can blame a program during his administration for black youth and take the form of installing security cameras, barbed wire bars on windows ands and extra locks within housing projects. so, in this sense during the carter administration, his major employment program forces african-american youth to become complacent to the degree of the
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criminalization of their own communities. so this kind of a metaphor for the larger aspect implementations of the domestic policy after essentially a decade of the war on crime and this new federal crime control priority. >> moving forward where do we put obama's policy with any number of cities that have informed the policy do you have a connection between obama, your analysis of his approach to this and chicago and philly? >> as far as i see it, my brothers keeper that is part.
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so it's like this rhetoric of trying to do something the concrete so we get the ferguson report in the department of justice which is in some ways dealing with racism and the level of extraction that is going on in many cities like ferguson where basically the police as a federal government say it isn't functioning or it wasn't functioning to keep citizens safe but as a collection agency where it would profile and arrest people for failing to pay traffic tickets. so it would be set off and continues in this historical extraction. so the solution that we are getting to that seems to be the foremost reform that we've gotten in terms of dealing with
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the police and presidential to each other that is outside of the obama releasing nonviolent drug offenders into the sentencing reform act that's currently before congress and is attempting to incarcerate. that's not onlbut not only doesy benefit private companies which tragically and ironically, it provides officers with stun guns and provides officers instruments of brutality and now they are profiting off the body cameras that are supposed to hold officers accountable but they open up a whole new data collection on top of the other criminal justice that would create new opportunities for the private sector to kind of comment. it doesn't solve the root cause of the police community sentencing for the residents they are responsible for
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patrolling and surveilling they are able to sit at the table together where the residents can have a voice and input over the program and they are implement implemented. body cameras are going to open up new problems we can't even foresee. but it continues to be good business. >> johnson versus obama. spec that's a hard question. >> richard nixon is to the left in many respects. >> i didn't want to go there. >> johnson versus obama. given his domestic violence initiatives -- >> of the war on poverty, and i am critical of johnson on the
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war on poverty because that is our job as historians to be critical of figures and programs that we admire. johnson is a complicated figure that the war on poverty and the promise of the principle of the feasible participation is something that i think we need to return to. if we want to think about a roadmap for the policy moving forward, then we need to kind of look at some of the early ideas that were emerging in the kennedy and johnson administration. in many cases, johnson just took the urban program in the kennedy administration on an experimental level and implemented nationwide. so i think returning to these principles of the empowering communities to shape the programs and resources they are receiving i think it's really important. there is a rule fo role for thel government and promoting greater
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opportunities and promoting and opening up new dialogs to really address the long-term consequences of racism, discrimination, and income class and inequality in the united states. >> i'm wondering if there is any possibility of moving forward unless there is some kind of an acknowledgment that 1865 didn't end everything and simply evolve after that and that there have been no suggestions of any reconciliation or any kind of national conversations. and i'm wondering if where that might fit into your excellent book. >> i think it is something that is completely necessary. that is one of the things that
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is exciting about finishing this research and revising the book over the past year. it's what has been going on in the communities it's the fact that hillary clinton talks about the mission o mission of her pry should she become elected is very promising. so these conversations are opening up. harry tubman is going to be on the 20-dollar bill. the question is whether they will move beyond these conversations in this room and elsewhere to the concrete change in the kind of kind of a growis for the change of consciousness about who gets to be a citizen and who doesn't, who should be included, and how much opportunity we should provide citizens that have been systematically and historically
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excluded the basic resources including in the case of the water that is in place and. i wanted to ask a historical question. what was the maximum participation argument how much of this decline in the appeal of that ideal do you think turned on the robust participation of the militancy and community control programs and community programming? how much do you put on the blackout were insurgents into this uncertainty and number two,
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this is difficult but how would you even suggest a johnson administration, nixon administration to be capable of navigating that dilemma for the organized control programs. >> that is an excellent question and you're right it is difficult to answer. answer. and maximum feasible participation, johnson almost immediately after the federal government begins funding these grassroots organizations like in chicago which is involved in making the disciples and memberships the question is to what extent, and it was aimed johnson administration to local officials oppose this because they didn't want to feed their power to the grassroots organizations eventually as kind of a way to remedy the situation. johnson bough not only
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institutionalized many of the programs but also gives local authorities do levels of oversight and power within b's community organizations. local officials charged that this was kind of a voter registration drives and johnson increasingly backed off. but even more in control if kind of rocks johnson and liberal sympathizers further and further away from these more transformative notions of liberal reform or the uprising in the 60s beginning with harlem and 64, philadelphia, brooklyn, rochester new york and they continue to escalate every single year as more and more resources are being allocated towards the war on crime.
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so, johnson and his advisers b's were somehow political in nature. they recognized issues of unemployment and lack of access to education and the same grievances that have inspired these collective group in violence but yet instead of saying okay we can respond to these issues when actually we obviously haven't gone far enough with the war on poverty maybe we really do need a structural solution if we want to prevent future uprising from happening. instead, they back away from the war on poverty programs and turned towards the climate and really turned the war on poverty and war on crime as a way to suppress the militancy for the future uprising. >> i didn't answer the second
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question but that's okay. >> for those of us are old enough and have been around, what do you do with the black power peace and then the corruption i'm old enough to remember a lot of these community-based programs so you had an interesting accommodation in the family all operating in concert. so it's a context where the narrative gets a little stickier and more complicated because it actually is corruption. moynahan responds in part to that in the philadelphia case and they are pretty remarkable. in the case in chicago it was a
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faith-based program led by the churches in the area. what do we do with that? part of the difficulty is the element in the left and my discussion they never quite knew what to do with. then there's the complicated nature of the militants that had a criminal weight to it. so my question is how do you fit that into your analysis, i'm trying to complicate the analysis. copies of that element into your analyst? >> when you are talking about corruption in the period during the nixon administration there is corruption running through. the way that the programs are
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implemented on a local level in some ways there's corruption in the organizations that are getting funded and the ways the programs are even selected to be funded and things like that, that is a problem with the kind of bureaucracy in some ways it is created. we see this at the highest level taking off during the nixon administration so there is corruption among federal policymakers and the way they are being allocated dc it is very much reflected in the ways in which the friends and supporters get the grants and similar things happen with the war on poverty when the federal government introduces and begins funding and we see that it creates new channels as a favorable than the groups will emerge. the problem is that especially when you are dealing with these
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kind of more transformative programs with less oversight from the state officials, these programs are cut off before they are given a chance to work. one thing the book does well if we are going to talk about corruption and you did a good job giving an evenhanded amount of democrats and republicans, and i just wanted to have you comment a bit about what i perceive to be an issue of the disenfranchisement as a voting bloc in the government whether it is at the local level or the national level how has that sort of contributed to an inability
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from the part of ordinary citizens to actually get bigger leaders to respond to them in the clientele relationship where they are being taken as given? >> for the last half century and before, the party has taken for granted african-american voters, latino voters, and it's able to kind of make these rhetorical gestures without necessarily enacting policies that address the issues most important to them so we see very much not only with the crime bill that exacerbated the kind of bubbling prison population so we get that and it increases the death penalty. two years later we get the
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welfare reform bill. there will be campaign speeches that the black middle class in the '90s and the number living in extreme poverty actually increase drastically during the clinton administration. so part of it is i think that again how the new social movements and the discussions that are being opened up by groups like black lights matter are putting pressure on the democratic party to address issues of the police communities and educational disparities, mass incarceration and entry that will provide people with housing and education and things like that and it's up to us to keep that pressure going perhaps because it looks like a huge surprise we are not going to get

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