tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN September 7, 2016 8:00am-10:01am EDT
they will be part of those discussions. i said it before and i'll say it again. i hope and looking at the details in the analysis of the decision will be made later this month. in saudi arabia, and that the deputy crown prince at the g20. i did raise that had concerns about the report of what has happened in jenin. i insist they should be properly investigated. ..
because this government has a fine record in terms of what we've done in humanitarian support. it's education, girls and others around the world and in helping people access to prep -- water and resources they need. but it is free trade that underpins our growth. we will be the global leader in free trade, if we could is also the best anti-poverty policy for those countries. i will be and i'm ashamed, unashamedly will go out there
and get the message that we -- i'm sorry the labour party is turning its back on something that is let to the prosperity of the united kingdom. >> may i congratulate my right arm of a friend on her emphatic support for free trade? in the european union we currently run a deficit with the of the 27 member states. according to the office of national statistics of 62 billion a year. however, we run a surplus for the same goods and services with the rest of the world of over 30 billion which went up by about 10 billion last year alone. will my right honorable friend continue her crusade for free trade to develop our world opportunities through brexit and to make sure that the european commission and the european union no longer continues to write our trade policy? will do it ourselves and do it
really well. >> my honorable friend is right. we have an opportunity that i want to ensure that we are ambitious and seizing the opportunities to develop those trade deals around the world. we will be bill voting that new relationship referred to the opinion which will be part of which will be how we would be trading with the eu in relation to goods and services but we had the opportunity to develop those trading relationships around the rest of the world. we can't formally opened those, how those deals in place and operating until we leave the european union but we can do the preparation to make sure the other when we need them. >> angus robertson. >> can i thank the prime minister for an advance copy of her statement. in one area i agree of course that you 20 some was very much cast with the brexit vote and her own brexit brainstorming from the previous week. i read one report which said what brexit appeared to be an
apogee 20 was the prime minister getting shunted to the back of the leaders group photo, he breathed against by the americans and the japanese, and then left to pick up the fact that mexico, australia and singapore have expressed -- conservatives on the other side don't like it but this is other people are viewing the united kingdom internationally at the present time. mr. speaker, g20 leaders are as keen as us all. to actually learn what on earth the uk government plans are for leaving the european union. i asked the prime minister twice during prime minister's questions are really, really simple question. since then she said at a quote that she's not giving a running commentary which seems more like no commentary whatsoever. and that she's not going to comment on every twist and turn. can i say to the prime minister, being a full member of the european single market and start a twist. it is not a turn. it is fundamental to business across the united kingdom.
as she expect to be able to hold that for three years and not confirm whether she actually wants the uk prevent a full member of the single market was that she won the uk to remain fully within the single market, yes or no? it's not that difficult. on trade we know that the united states and pretty much every other country wants a trade deal with the european union. ahead of the united kingdom and a trade deal with the uk only answered, after the european union leads. can the prime minister tell us how many trade negotiators the government has hired since the referendum? on immigration, mr. speaker, we learn the promise of a points-based immigration system is being ditched. at the same time the uk government has plans to triple its a policy first mooted by donald trump and build a wall. is the prime minister not totally ashamed? surely she can come up with something better than this. and on specific fund the questions that i ask her, voters
were promised, they were promised if they voted leave that the national health service would receive an extra 350 million pounds a week. a week. if they voted to leave the european union you. will the prime minister confirm that this promise like the immigration promise made by the leave campaign is being broken? mr. speaker, a very important question that really matters to a lot of people in coastal communities in scotland is about the funding that they were due to receive of more than 100 million euros from the european maritime and fisheries funds between now and 2023. there has been no commitment whatsoever from the uk government to wander about funding round. will she give it now? >> reqs mr. speaker, it has been very problematic in recent weeks
to have a deal with the situation where the prime minister's party has suggested that eu citizens should not participate fully in scottish public life. we on these benches totally repudiate that narrowminded, racist, position. the prime minister shaking her head. she should be aware of this. she should be aware of this. [shouting] >> will she take the opportunity to disassociate her party from this, apologize for it, and confirm that we value the contribution of european union citizens living in this country, and we are grateful for it. finally, mr. speaker, the prime minister -- [shouting] spent as the right honorable gentleman has taken place as much time as he was allocated, punctuated by some interruptions, it is true, i trust his last sentence will be updated when.
spirit and the prime minister has not had time yet to make an oral statement to the house on the important matter of the estates review of the m.o.d. so will she confirm the commitment the government has given to communities that there will be consultation with them before final decisions and announcements are made? >> and extreme important matter but it's not obvious to me how it pertains to the g20. prime minister. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i will try to limit my response to the key issues that i referred to in my statement at the right i will generally take the. first of all cannot just sit on on this issue of immigration. he says a points-based system has been rejected. what the people of the united kingdom before on the 23rd of june as part of the vote to leave the european union was to have control over people who are moving from the european union into the united kingdom. a points-based system does not give you that control. what a points-based system does
it means anybody who meets a certain set of criteria is automatically allowed to enter the country. it does not give the government the opportunity of the control and making decisions as to who can enter the country. and it is that degree of control, the issue of control that we will be looking for as we decide to relationship will have with the european union in future. thing he said a lot about trade deals with other countries, about the eu, about opportunities and so forth. can i just make a very few points to him on this. what i saw at the g20 in my discussions with a number of the world leaders want a great willingness to seize the opportunities that come from the uk leading the european union, to do exactly this sort of trade deals my honorable friends has just been referring to. i think we should as a united kingdom be willing to seize those opportunities. we should be ambitious in the deals we wish to do a round the
world. we should be the global leader in free trade. we should be taking those opportunities and ensuring that as really the european union we are able to have the relationships that will ensure growth and prosperity for the whole of the united kingdom, including growth and prosperity to scotland. >> mr. crispin blunt. >> thank you, mr. speaker. at the g20 with the deputy conference she would've met the foreign minister who is now in london. is she as delighted as i am that he made clear to parliamentarian's this point that we can at the gcc to the list of those part of the world seeking united trade deal with united kingdom? >> yes, i echo the comments of my honorable friend. i am pleased that has been reiterated was an issue in fact i discussed with the deputy prints, and the police the gcc are in that position, too. >> thank you, mr. speaker.
i think the prime minister for statement and for early sight of the. australia today has joined america at the g20 last week in slopping our government telling us what are, in fact, at the back of the queue or a trade deal. the plain fact is that this government is not concealing its hand. it hasn't got a hand or it would appear a clue. so will they prime minister take this opportunity to reassure business and confirm that we will remain a member of the european single market? will she agreed that we trusted the british people with a question of our departure so we should trust them with the question of our destination? and for whatever deal she negotiates to the british people in a referendum. >> can i say to the honorable gentleman, he referred to the marks been made by the australian trade minister. the australian trade minister has done is recently set up with a legal position is there and i mentioned it in response to an earlier point, and the legal
position is a this, that we are not able to finally sign a put into place, put into practice trade deals with other countries while we remain a member of the european union. that is just the situation the it doesn't mean we can't prepare for the. it doesn't mean we can't be negotiating, discussing about that. but what i'm also very clear about is as long as we are fermented of the european union, until the point which we live, we will be advocates of free trade. we will be advocates for those trade deals in the european union is negotiate with your -- of the country. i gave that commitment. i've given that commitment to present obama in relation to the ttip a negotiation on ttip we will play our full part but at the same time we will be looking to have those discussions which will enable us when believe european union to have a trade deals that will give us the growth and prosperity that we want. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. can i congratulate the prime minister in which you quite rightly put forward the huge
benefits of free trade? i know she will be aware and should concern those of in the financial automotive sector but in the consequences if we were to abandon our membership of the single market which, of course, ensures that we can trade three of custom duties and with all the benefits that it confers. and while she's right to say that we don't want to run a comic of what faces us, could i urge her to consider we do need some principles on what assurances can she give us about custom duties and tariffs of that single market? >> i say to my friend actually recognize the important role our automotive industry plays in the united kingdom. i was pleased a few days ago to visit jaguar ran over -- and huge success they have brought it and doesn't say the growth continues in that company. as regards this issue of the
language that she's about membership of us about membership of a single worker access to single market and so forth, what i would say is this. what i said earlier and i repeat again is we want the right to you for trade in goods and services to the united kingdom. this is about thing when we're outside the european union, what is the right relationship for us to have with the european union on trade. that is what i think it's important for us not to silver think of this as trying to replicate something here or something they're not actually say what is the deal that we want for the future. that's the work the department for exiting the european union is doing at the moment, looking and particularly talking to different sectors in the automotive industry will be one of those sectors. to ask what it is that they would be looking for, what they want to see. so that we can forge that give and go out, be ambitious and get it. >> three months ago the international syria support
group agreed to back as a last resort airdrops to deliver much needed humanitarian supplies to the siege areas of the country including a level. since been you then your thing e right things that has been russian missiles and syria and -- including yesterday chlorine, and chemical weapon. canada prime minister tell the house based on our discussions about the situation in syria, the g20, whether that commitment still holds and if so when she expects, she met generally to finally get through by whatever means the people of suffered for so long? >> i think i can get the right honorable gentleman reassurance that commitment is still there. the situation on the ground has as he said made it incredibly difficult for the delivery of that commitment. the issue of humanity in a beginning into aleppo was an issue i raised directly with president putin with my discussions with them. the right honorable gentleman
referred to concern about this with weaponry that is being used by potentially, by the syrian regime. we have been very clear in our opposition as he will no to what is happening relationship with very concerned about reports come forward. it's important that those reports be properly looked at, but longer-term we remain committed to the political transition in syria, if that transition will be a political transition to a syria without president assad. >> i'm very pleased to hear the prime minister's full support for free trade in the underpinning of our prosperity in britain. i had thought until i listened to the leader of the opposition that was widely shared on both sides of the house. given that it isn't and also the worrying as we are from both of the candidates in the u.s. presidential election, both of which sound not terribly
enthusiastic about free trade can she make a policy of recovered to campaign both in the united kingdom to argue for the merits of free trade and also on the global stage? >> can i say to my right honorable friend be expressed his surprise but i think this is prize on the side of the house when the leader of the opposition showed his hand that he was in favor of free trade. indeed, i suspect there are many members on the labour party benches who were surprised to hear that this is the policy of the labour party. we will be advocates and strong advocates for free trade as a right honorable friend has suggested. we will be ensuring we take that message. as he says it is free trade that underpins us. >> like the other member we understand this is an early stage of negotiation but it would be hopeful to know more about what she values and the negotiations are water aims are. she talked a lot about free trade but it's still resisting
saying what she actually thinks of the ultimate expression of free trade in europe, which is the single market. so please could you tell us, clear up confusion from yesterday, does she value membership of the single market? does she think it should be and and/or unobjective of the negotiations and that we should be drawing to state and if we can? >> i have to say i have answered this question on a number of occasions already. [shouting] and she will find that she can come people ask me a question an collective and a question collective and answered that if asked the same question they will get the same answer. so that's i think it perfectly reasonable a perfectly normal. what i say is the aim that we have is to get the right deals in trade in goods and services with the eu. but this will be a new relationship. we will be looking to develop a new model of the relationship between the uk and the european union, and we will not as i said earlier be setting out every
negotiating and benefits of entering those negotiations. that will be the best way to come out with the worst deal. >> can i welcome my right honorable friend, i relations wh the international concern about some of the edges of the market economy that must be made to work for everyone. on global security, could i ask my right honorable friend from way back support attempts by the searing coalition to bring forward their own proposals to settle the matter? and could she urge the respective powers that have an interest in competing interest in syria that the longer they go on fighting over the bodies of the people of syria, the more the risk to global security will continue and that this opportunity need be present in blood is made when it should certainly be taken? >> i absolutely agree with comments by right of a friend has made. this is an important point with the syrian opposition coming
together into meeting that is taking place here. and i also agree that as we look at global security, actually what we want to see, is deceived into the conflict to the conflict that is taking place in syria. i continue to believe that as the conflict continues in syria and the actions of the syrian regime under president assad, it isn't that what we saw encouraging people to join terrorist organizations to go out there and to fight and potentially to return to come to other countries and to conduct those terrorist attacks. we must see and must ensure that we are playing our part as ugly the uk is today in hosting phishing opposition in peace talks and ensuring we can bring an end to the conflict. >> can i think the prime minister for her statement, and can i commend her for her common sense realism in terms of for approach to negotiating our exit
from the european union? it isn't like for a lot of the criticisms and contrary that come from those who advocated, perfect legitimate point of view but demonstrates a lack of respect for the decision the british people as a whole have now made big it is time to get on with making the best of that anyway that she is proposing to do. i certainly offer our support in these benches and our party and the support of the first minister to try to achieve the best possible deal for all of the united kingdom ever northern ireland in protective gear on terrorism can ask or simply this, can she ensure that more action is done to bring greater deterrent for those who go around preaching hatred and radicalization of young people in the united kingdom, more needs to be done to send strong sentences, to ensur ensure strog senses are passable act as a deterrent in future? >> can i think in for this word is getting the government in the
post is taken but i think it is a sensible way to go forward in relation to these negotiations. i want to ensure that the edged of northern ireland are fully taken into account in the work that we do and that was a message i gave when i visited northern ireland shortly after i became prime minister. in fact, the message i've given to all the magicians can that we want the full engagements we can sure the interest of the whole united kingdom are taken into account. on the issue of terrorism that is mentioned, it is important that we deal with those who preach hatred. we've seen the centers yesterday. this whole question of the radicalization of young people particularly but radicalization of people generally, online or in other ways is an important one that we need to address. i want to see good as he said sentences that i could give a very clear message that this is not acceptable activity for people to be involved in but
also we need to do the work that we're doing, for example, during the counterterrorism met small unit, the work in europe and the work we are doing to actually promote mainstream voices against the preachers of hate. >> from her discussion with other world leaders at the g20, will my right honorable friend ensure that small and medium-sized businesses are at the heart of future trade negotiations, including the many successful local businesses will be attempting my job fair on friday the? >> can i commend my honorable friend are holding her job fair on friday? i'm sure there will be many opportunities given by local businesses there and many people will be able to take those opportunities will benefit from that jobs are. small and medium-sized enterprises will play an important role. are in the summer i had a meeting at number 10 downing street with a number of small
and medium-sized businesses and those representing smes. what struck me was the optimism about the opportunities that are not available to the united kingdom and their willingness to play their part in taking up those opportunities and encouraging the prosperity we want to see for everyone in our country. >> does she accept that britain, like all developed economies with aging populations, need to import labour to drive? and, therefore, would not be an act of extreme self harm for us to give up our full and unfettered access to the single market as to the dogmatic and arbitrary desire to reduce immigration? >> i think the judgment. arbitrate undogmatic desire to reduce immigration. we recognize the impact that uncontrolled immigration can have on people, particularly those at the low income, lower end of the income scale.
and also i think the right honorable gentleman needs to consider carefully the message that the british people gave in to vote on the 23rd of june. i think a vote to tell us they wanted to see becom the governoe to take control of people moving from european union into the 19 can and that is what we will do. >> if you come to my constituency a drive along, you'll see the leaks and recover, going up. there are huge steel constructions going up him and to live up to oppose be pleased to know that it's 100% british steel that is being used. and does not coming out of the eu give us an opportunity, if necessary, to deal with chinese a dumping of steel? but could ask the prime minister in particular, whether she would find time next year to come and see rushton likes? in a particular, they have some very good shoe shops. [laughter]
>> i thank my friend may just have sealed the deal, mr. speaker. can't i commend and welcome the fact that development is using whenever set uk steel. that's very good. i think we need to look at this issue as overcapacity and overproduction, not just as an individual country or indeed the eu but globally which is why it's so important that this is on the agenda for the cheektowaga for this new form is being set up with chinese representation. >> i believe in enterprise and wealth creation. they have both said actually it cannot attacks going for develop in countries is paid able fast dwarf that of a support they get to internationally. could ask the prime minister given a statement on tax avoidance and given that we now public and backcountry boarding, how she will make that a priority for the g20?
>> i was able to refer in my interventions at the g20 two this important issue about tax avoidance and the work that needs to be taken to i think the g20 has been playing a leading role actually in addressing this issue and in galvanizing action to relation to this issue. there's a number of initiatives that are taking place both in relation to as i said the whole question of those people who were able to try these different jurisdictions to recess the payment of taxes debate has been taken. i was referred to this is that pushing forward on that particular initiative that there are other things like providing support to developing countries for them to double to collect taxes in those countries such that is needed and that should be being collected. and initiatives like the antitax initiative also import. we have played a leading role in detroit on his attitude toward is doubling a global important role.
>> i congratulate my right honorable friend particular version of the g20 summit to raise the issue of slavery? can to try to outline what four steps can be taken to engage with countries around the world to eradicate this evil practice? >> i'm grateful to my honorable friend for raising the question of modern slavery but i think it is hugely important, and if we do need to be doing more about it. i am encouraging people ou out n the first a look at initiative we've taken, the legislation would taken that we should of course -- the first of its kind but also more we can do between law enforcement agencies working together and other government agencies working together to ensure that we stamp out the terrible organized crime groups that are behind this terrible crime of modern slavery. in doing that we must never forget that takes place in the uk with uk individuals being taken into slavery, too. we mustn't just think it's a global issue. we need to act globally and also
act locally. >> why did the prime minister authorized the very public dressing down of the brexit sector nearly for telling the house that membership o of the single market of removing a people came together? isn't possible the brexit sector whose belief in the stuff for years has supported about this than the prime minister husband at brexit care for a matter of weeks? can we in this house for additional practice where ministers of discipline for misleading the house as opposed to the -- telling the truth? [laughter] spent i don't recognize the picture the right honorable gentleman holds up, set up it to suggest it was clear and make a outcomes and this is not a zero-sum game and as i said in response to the questions on this come the government is closer we're going to go out and get the right deal for the united kingdom. add-on negotiating a new relationship with the eu.
>> isn't it the vital in this brexit period that we maintain confidence? but isn't it the case that actually with the opportunity to forge new global trade deals with record low interest rates and with the opportunity to free ourselves from burdensome regulation? isn't difficult time to invest in the united kingdom? was used for of such is the g20 continued to make this case? >> i thank my friend that i very happy to disappeared i was doing that in hangzhou at the g20 summit but it is also the case i think we must welcome the vote of confidence that has been given in the united kingdom since the vote to leave the eu was taking place, single biggest vote of confidence came from the japanese company with a 24 billion fast but in arm. we've seen investment from companies like glaxosmithkline as well. this is a time to be confident about the british economy. the fundamentals of the british economy are very strong and we
want to encourage the investment to take place in the uk and that is exactly what i, this government will be doing. [inaudible] -- brought in july on the conservative, i quote i would expect the new prime minister on september 92 immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favorite trade -- [inaudible] can ask the prime minister, can she confirm that she'll be able to trigger these in today's time on friday as predicted by her secretary of state, in which countries will be involved? >> i say to the right honorable gentleman, i have been involved in discussions with countries on trade, free trade deals that we can develop your i was doing that the weekend at the g20 summit with a number of countries. i listed some of them in my statement earlier.
there were others, too, and i'm pleased at the opportunities we have a opportunities we have been doing is other countries had to sit down around the table and talk about trade deals. >> to be free and to work for everyone, for of corruption. could you update us on the discussion on tackling corruption at the summit and taken for the actions -- earlier this year? perhaps explain how some of the countries are less keen on taking actions in responding to that? >> my honorable friend is right. it is important that we deal with corruption if we're going to be able to see free trade deals, people trading for around the world. but also in some countries it is sadly corruption that gets in wainthe way of being able to dep their economies and people in those countries being able to take the benefits that economic development can bring. the g20 was collectively clear
that they wanted to continue the anticorruption work that is being done. i myself made specific reference to the international anticorruption court nations in which while setting up your in london and another of countries are joining us in that. that's going to be one part of the action we need to take but i can assure my honorable friend that the g20 was very clear we need to continue to press on the outcomes of the anticorruption summit that we had here in london. >> many people are not getting a share of globalization especially in this country. to ask the prime minister what specific measures she and other leaders agreed at the g20 to deal with the problem to ensure benefits are given a more equally? >> the honorabl honorable gentls right as i refer to in my statement that was a collective agreement at going to comment i made from the united kingdom that we need to ensure the
benefits of globalization benefits of economic government exposure among people. there's a number of steps we need to do in order to ensure that the in some countries it is about dealing with corruption. there's a number of other areas. i refer to the work on corporate responsibility that was picked up and echoed by a number of leaders around the g20 table. to our commitment remains absolutely strong. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. i very much welcome the government's announcing this week that it plans to ban plastic microbeads in many cosmetic products, including face scrubs and toothpaste. and i would request that as well as the moral stances that this government takes at forums like the g20 on anti-slavery and on ensuring free markets, that we
continue to be world leaders in environmental policies, affording those we can protect arm marine, wildlife and the rest of the planet. spent i think my honorable friend for the comes amid about the decision we take it on microbeads the they have an impact on marine life and it's right that we are benefits in certain products. this is another area where the uk can be leaving. we seem to be lead on issues like climate change, and i think this whole wider area of environment concerns is one in which we can lead to. >> public services are exempt from pashtun which the uk is party to. will she update public service exemption clause from all future post-brexit uk treaties?
>> i refer the honorable gentleman to the references i made earlier to this sort of approach that we are taking where we are not setting out a state with details of any particular negotiation, that we're going to take part in relation to look at reviews. we will go out and get the right deals for the united kingdom. >> i welcome the prime minister is positive statements today. the uk, the northwest cheshire, manchester and liverpool can rightly be proud of our crew strength in science. can my right honorable friend confirm that these sectors will continue to be absolutely essential to what the government does with the northern powerless for its new industrial strategy but also they will be central to the new trade deals that are so vital to the future of our economy? >> i thank my honorable friend for that question. it enables me actually to be called for don't think i responded to one of the points made by the honorable member earlier.
we and he talked about the north about custom this government remains absolutely committed to the northern powerhouse. a development we have seen in the source of crucially a new industries and looking at new scientific develop it such that my honorable friend has referred to. i can ensuring that as we look to these new trade deals will also be looking to the sort of a government that can take place in the sort of decisions we can take which ensures we are not just looking at trade. if you like traditional goods and services, a practicing what more can we do, what can we develop for the future, and include those. >> i'd like to thank the prime minister for clarifying that brexit was wrong to roll up membership to the single market the perform sector was wrong, after international trade secretary was wrong to say we are living the customs union.
but isn't it the case, mr. speaker, that if you want to strike trade deals with non-eu countries, and i am somebody who appreciates the value of free trade deals, we will have to leave the unit that will bring bad news for uk businesses and for foreign direct investment? >> i'm not going to be what i said or written relation to the steps were taken on negotiation to all of which is encourage the honorable lady to take her leaders to want to point out the benefits of free trade given what he said in the chamber today. >> i'm delighted to the prime minister's commitment to free trade but and respects free trade is on the retreat in the world today. global levels of trade and investment are on the decline. we've seen the kind of alike as one congressman from presidential candidates. and even your misinformation and scare mongering from some quarters in recent years leading to an erosion in the benefits of free trade amongst even our own constituents. with the prime minister agree given the centrality of free
trade and sign agreements to the future of our economy now is the time to put aside that scaremongering, particularly i'm afraid in some parts of the leftist british politics and believe in free trade and its ability to work for everyone? >> my honorable friend as the important point. it was significant that the g20 was very clear that we want to take action on protectionism. we didn't want this to the point my friend has made is a very valid one. it was all to discuss at the g20 which is the need for all who support free trade to go out and make the case for it. and to show the benefits of that free trade can bring. and because as i said earlier and i think has been universally echoed on the conservative benches, on the government benches, it is free trade that underpins our economic growth and underpins our prosperity. >> given as we understand comments made by the secretary
of state for exiting the european union on monday at the dispatch box rdb regard as per something as did oppose a government policy and considering that the remarks made by the secretary of state of international trade in were led to the custom units required to be change, isn't it the case that prime minister is to continually amended statements and comments made by her newly appointed ministers? can ask why she made those appointments in the first place? >> well, the honorable lady has referred to matters in previous question. i answered embrace questions at i suggest she take the answer i've given before. >> prime minister support this venture recent investment by the japanese firm. i wonder if you could give the house a bit more about the reassurance season-ticket overseas companies to enable them to continue to invest in the uk as a center of excellence in manufacturing?
>> i'm very pleased to say, we encourage congress to invest in the united kingdom. i think it was real opportunities in the uk. we are a center of excellence in certain areas in terms of manufacture i think is on for earlier to the visit i played jaguar land overcome that investment to reinvigorate the company to create jobs, create growth is a good example of what can be done. i want to see it happening across, and wide range of industry but also across the country. >> tanf all the question -- [inaudible] 10% of doctors in the nhs -- we know doctors have been put off applying for work year and since then, of course, we have the vicious attacks an increase in hate crimes that prime minister for two.
we need more doctors in the nhs. we have many unfilled training places. what is she going to say to reassure the eu nationals working in the nhs that we value them and say to people who should look at coming to work here? >> i'm pleased to say that under this government we have more doctors working in the nhs, the number of doctors in the nhs has increased since we came into government. what i was in the position of the eu citizens is that i fully expect to be able to go -- while we are members, their status doesn't change. i fully expect and intend i want to be able to get the the status of the eu citizen. the circumstances in which a that would not be possible would be if the status of british citizens living in other eu states was not guaranteed. >> during her bilateral talks with president putin, did my honorable friend gently but firmly dispute him of the notion what around recently by a most
others the leader of the opposition that this country is less committed than hitherto to a tomato treaty obligations, particularly article v? and as a country we remain fully committed to the autonomy and sovereignty of our partners, particularly the baltic states and poland? >> i and the government argued about the commitment we have to nato and the can we have two articles like the as indicated earlier that is a central underpinning of nato, the joint security that we provide for each other. as members and it appeared i think many people will have been shocked and deeply concerned by the statement of the leader of the opposition when he suggested that we would not be signing up to the article v. it is as i say in underpinning of nato which insured on our national study but also a national center to of our alli allies. >> was there any discussions with the chinese about the acquisition of the global switch
company by the chinese daily tech group? poses some secure to questions, wouldn't this acquisition also have some security issues? >> i answered the point about how i'm addressing the question of hinkley pointed. >> london is the global leader in international shipping. international shipping law of course is at the heart of international treaty and as a former shipping lawyer i'm proud to know the great many london-based international shipping organizations. can invite the prime minister to ensure that her government may contact with these organizations based in london to ensure that we can get the best in
international shipping deal with international trade? >> my own boyfriend refers to a number of organizations, based in london and important, very important organization in the whole question of shipping the i can assure my honorable friend that the department is looking across all sectors of activity and ensuring that the views of the sectors will be taken into account as we develop our proposal for the relationship with the eu. >> on the have a steel workers in my constituency can i reiterate how disappointing it was children at the prime minister didn't raise with the chinese president specifically the overproduction of tiny steel? can we have a commitment from the country that will do everything we can now in the future to properly raise these issues? we need to prim the prime miniso this to protect our steel
industry. >> i did raise the issue but i chose to raise in the plenary session so whimsically raised not just before the chinese president but also before the other leaders. and crucially what has come out of the g20 is an agreement set up this new form which we are looking at actions which leads to overcapacity and overproduction, and the chinese will be a member of that forum. >> the efforts congratulate the prime minister focusing more on policy discussions at the g20 10 which is positioned -- could the prime minister confirm that whilst tackling international avoidance through the g20 is vital important, is also great deal we can be doing ourselves and, indeed, are doing? >> to that is absolutely, my friend if i. could i will commend my right of a friend from whitley for the steps he took as prime minister to encourage that own action in relation to tax
avoidance here in the uk but also globally. it is an important issue we need to address and my friend is right, we must always look busy we can be doing here in the uk. >> with saudi arabia take failing to carry out an independent investigation into the potential breaches of these international unit in-laws, with the prime minister exercise global leadership and call for the independent investigation to be held so we can find out what is going on in yemen? >> as i indicated earlier i did raise with the crown prince is underrated importance of ensuring that any allegations are properly investigated, but also reiterate the point i made earlier that we have a have a relationship with saudi arabia across a number of issues and the relationship we have with the meeting with the terrorism is important because it helps to keep the streets of britain the safe.
>> my constituents are enormously encouraged by the international interest has been shown in signing free trade deals with the uk. david g20 discussions compromise -- confirm my suspicion it will only grow in doing that? with my friend agree with me that this particular spokesman of every member of the south to shout from the rooftops for jobs for investment in this country? because my constituents of jobs are frankly not a matter of dogma. >> my honorable friend has spoken very well on this issue. i can confirm that i was what i think was very welcome was the way which a number of countries were coming up to me throughout the summit to say that they want to be sitting at a talking to the uk about trade disparate as he said this is a matter of dogma. it is a matter of jobs and people security, it is a matter of prosperity of this country. >> in her remarks on refugees, on migration, the prime minister
refer to imagine efforts but not human rights. in those was under other words today was shielded do things like the cartoon process where it is, refugees in them in the horn of africa will be concentrated -- i countries government has been bombing their own people come every and countries to give forces have been implicated already in there and trafficking? given office you said, where does the uk in relation to the cartoon process, will the uk continued to share that produce a map of the eu? >> in relation to the second part of the honorable gentleman's question, the chairmanship of the process will be moving away from the uk. it well i think from memory, it isn't just, won't be staying with either it will being on a rotation basis. so the uk is part, has been
sharing a process there was consensus that the government i did have some secretary that is important for us if are going to deal with a significant movement of people that we simply significant movements of the economic migrants that we been seeing across the world and take into europe, we need to work with countries upstream. we need to be dealing across the board ensuring the people of better opportunities in their home country so they don't feel the need to come to europe to grasp opportunities but also enjoying that we are working with prime minister companies to stop the terrible trait that is taking place in terms of those organized crime groups that are encouraging the illegal migration, the smuggling of people at human trafficking. it will continue to work across all of those. >> as we begin the process of leaving the eu, and given my right honorable friend's experience with the g20 coming particularly her conversations with the other world leaders, what is your view in terms of britain and maintaining a strong
voice on the world stage after we left the eu and also our ability to lead discussions on the matter, the issues that matter to us? >> i say to my friend that what i saw from my discussion of the g20 is about as leaving the eu will not have a negative impact on us as a spokesman on the world stage. indeed, i am very clear, i want to be, uk to be a global leader. seeing their many issues already where the uk has been at the forefront of discussions on issues like climate change, tax avoidance and evasion. i think it is important we continue to play that role with the fifth largest economy. we will be out there as a bold, confident, outward looking nation continue to play a key global role. >> does she have any discussions with others at the summit about how we might better protect civilian areas and particularly
hospitals and other infrastructure that have been targeted in the press even using our assets and intelligence as well as putting and he met during airdrops if that's necessary, had she any further consideration to what we can do? >> i think we're all concerned about some activities we've seen taking place in syria. that's why as i indicated earlier we need to ensure that we are putting all our efforts into trying to ensure that we can bring into this conflict because of the horrific impact it has had on millions of certain people, some of whom of course have left, some of them are still in the street, some of whom are living in appalling conditions under threat of action being taken against them from various forces. we need to redouble our efforts in relation to that. we do need to look and we do very clear, how we can increase the bill before you make an aide to get through to those who needed it badly, it proves come it is proving very difficult to put that into practice but our desire to continue to try to
find ways of doing that is still there. >> did my right honorable friend the prime minister have the chance to discuss the issues of ukraine and crimea with the russian representation? at the recent seminar, as part of my nato duties, much evidence havhas been presented as the cleansing of the crimean tartar people is happening on the biggest skill puzzle with some quiet harbor and his human rights abuses. if the prime minister has not had the opportunity to race at this stage could ask that she encourages her out right angle from the foreign secretary to look for close at this issue so that she can be prepared at the next g20 to raise this terrible situation which is happening right now in? >> the government's position in relation to what has happened in crimea has not changed, and i was able to refer to our
position in the ukraine and a number of discussions i had but this'lthis will be a subject wil continue to return to. >> can asked whether the prime minister was lobbied at the g20 by the chinese and u.s. governments about ratifying the paris climate treaty as quick as possible? >> the chinese and u.s. governments of course it did indicate their intention and their ratification of the paris agreement shortly before the g20 summit, summit started and i was clear with everybody it is our attention to ratify. >> i'm and encourage the prime minister has indicated a willingness of countries to instigate trade deals with the uk. but is she confident we have the correct number of officials and negotiators, and also people with a great experience to go to deliver these absolute critical trade deals?
>> obviously over the years because of the position the uk was in the eu we did not have developed negotiated on trade ourselves but we are developing that within the department for international trade. i thought it was important to set up a separate department which could bring the expertise there, and we are looking at how we can ensure that we do indeed develop that will be looking to increase the keys in the department -- increase the expertise in the department. >> refugees face psychological trauma that they're being systematically exploited and abused. what discussions took place to ensure their safety, to progress reunification and to meet our commitments under the amendment? >> the honorable lady is right to refer to the psychological impact that being a refugee can have on children.
that is why as part of the support that we get as country to our she making it for refugees we do provide support of that sort to children. and it's one issues when we are looking of course at those refugees were being resettled here under our resettlement scheme, one of issues would look at is the requirement and support and counseling that individuals might require as part of the relation to the medical discussions have been taking place with local authorities. this is a matter of course for the 19, to be look at and without i met a discussion of the g20. >> i very much welcome the statement by the prime minister. paragraph 44 of the committee gave a set of the study to attack all forced displacement of people to protect refugees. this time last year on this day i asked them to reminisce about the creation of safe havens and
the protection of civilians fleeing see their i was told it was the right sort of thinking. was there a discussion of the g20 with other countries about the creation of safe havens whether now or in future conflicts? >> i understand the point my friend is making and the concept is sending out. i think what has been seen of course it is a difficult to look at some of these issues in practice in terms of what is happening on the ground. but he's right we need to think carefully in the committee to reverse today's mass movement of people and we do need to think very carefully about the support we can provide for refugees which is of course why this country is by being the second biggest bilateral donor a relationship humanitarian aid to syria and refugees. >> given the prime minister's reluctance to outline her priorities for future negotiations, can you and foremost who you're consulting with the domestically and and social center to ensure that their views are represented in the negotiations?
>> i've already indicated, we are looking cross sectors, consulting with different sectors of the economy on what their requirements are here but also say i'm very interested, game, that the honorable lady as an advocate for free trade and i suggest that she imparted to the leader of her party who has taken the opposite the second and said his party is not to believe in free trade. >> this is the first opportunity to welcome the lady took place, he disappeared she talks about three economy and a manufacturing base in this country that's going to provide jobs and i concur. does she take into the account the effect of green taxes under the restriction on large manufacturers to ensure that we can compete properly on a level playing field around the world?
>> i think my honorable friend for his welcome that he is given me, and can i assure them that what he is asking will indeed be taken into account. one of the benefits of bringing energy and climate change policy into the new departments of business energy and adoption strategy is that energy policy can be seen alongside requirements of this is an art and osha strategies as develop developed. >> first things first i believe in free trade. negotiable to the first three trade pacts in the sensitivities that many of my constituents are employed at the nearby toyota plant in derby and they were very concerned by the comments of the japanese government about investment in the uk. if we did not have access to the single market. so can the prime minister tell us what conversations we had hae with the japanese about their concerns? cacannot ask her to take control of the brexit negotiations, to
make sure that jobs and prosperity are not put at risk speak with the audible children must be them oldest and most long serving members in history of the house of commons. [laughter] >> thank you, mr. speaker. can i reassure the honorable gentleman that the negotiations will be looking to ensure as i said a number of our answers i've given that we are, can see growth in jobs and prosperity in the united kingdom both relation to the relationship we will have with the european union post-brexit also the trade deals we will be able to do around the rest of the world. ..
to enhance the trade facilitation agreement is agreed and 23rd team. >> my honorable friend has made a good point there and certainly my right honorable friend from the secretary of state will be lucky not the issues that he has said he is raised and i can assure him in looking at these deals will be looking at every aspect to ensure what we get is the right deal that we are talking about will be the right io. >> given the prime minister's
refusal, the question for my right honorable friend to remain members of the single market. will they be presented with any kinds of details of what it actually means? >> can i say to the arab agenda minis not going to give a different answer from me. i will simply say this. if we are willing to negotiate the right deal for the united kingdom on trade in goods and services, it will be quite wrong for the government to give away negotiations in advance of negotiations. >> the prime minister in the u.k. employed by the honorable friend already mentioned the large manufacturing bases to local economies.
she knows that huge uncertainty about our future relationship with the e.u. and the single market is creating. we also give another opportunity to say how she tried to mitigate those risks to investment and jobs. >> am grateful to the honorable lady because she reminds me i did answer the question fully because he did refer and discuss these matters with prime minister abbé and the outcome of those discussions and desire to take forward discussions on how we can ensure the relationship with japan and that we can continue to see japanese investment in the u.k. we have to vote to leave european unions with 24 billion pounds takeover.
>> first of all, can i commend for the hard work that has been done? the united kingdom of great britain and the exploited the ninth dates of america did does the prime minister agree the product of the housecalls that the world is killing our oyster. >> i agree. are many products here from the united kingdom, which we can trade very well with the world and the quality product to take. >> the right honorable friend and she would've seen the reports that there is a lack of people with the necessary
experience to negotiate trade deals in the u.k. is there something that is always in force to employ those necessary skills. >> as my answer to my honorable friend, i think it would enforce the trade deals through creation of the department of international affairs. the department building at the expertise and will continue to do so. >> patcher grady. >> i don't know if there is any discussion of america's "star trek" or the 50th anniversary. if any of us want to live long and prosper, we must tackle climate change. given the u.s. and chinese commitment, do they abolish the u.k. department and explain the agreements.
>> and all the discussions in the g20, "star trek" was never mentioned. i'm the point of ratification, we will be ratifying the paris agreement. but the commitment to the government's climate change can only be represented by a separate department. it is not the case. the important point is we've taken energy and climate change and i think we will get a better, more strategic approach on these issues. i repeat the point that i made to the honorable lady and the prime minister's questions earlier, which is i would hope that the honorable gentleman is interested in trying to change your congratulate the government on what was done in relation to private change because they feel for print encouraging others to take action in relation to emissions. >> we read an issue in the
bilateral session also. and she also had any discussions with the chinese delegation? what powers would they have? the house upon free trade which is communist and this tape on the industry and is using measures a bay bridge for free trade. one only going to have immediate defense measures because for the last four to five years in explosion of the market has occurred with zero action. >> it is absolutely not true because the low question is significant and is also an issue for other industries as well. that's why it's important to be setup on which the chinese will be represented. just look at the various issues we've been doing some of the has
certain answers. we secured energy cores, flexibility of the social economic factors taken into account when government successfully pressed for the instruction of duty is to protect u.k. still produce trade practices. there are many steps the government has taken and will continue to take because we recognize the importance of the industry in the u.k. >> does she have a discussion with france and germany where they are likely to replace the city of london with the current trading relationship, when she does so, could she go back to consider it even burrow, which is the second largest financial center and a country with a government that is clear in the
single market. >> well, i think this issue with scotland and whether it will be part of the european union single market post brexit, the decision taken on june 23rd with a decision of the people of the united kingdom to leave european union. the best thing for growth and prosperity but scotland is to remain part of the united kingdom and i intend to make sure that when the u.k. has left the european union, we are able to seize opportunities across the whole united kingdom including scotland. >> the prime minister is right to use in some it's like the g20 to press for britain's case in a globalized economy. can i press just a bit further on the issue i raised and that
is the bid for expo 2025 is partly my constituency. it took national pride, the united kingdom is a hosted expos in 1907 and before that it was a great exposition in mind that. expo 2015 and milan brought in 22 million visitors in our city and a 7 billion pounds investment. will she made with the great combined authority counsel and myself and other members so that she can fully appreciate the benefit of written putting it a bit before the expo. >> can i just say 10 on 10 or 20 and 10 for effort in promoting manchester's potential host of
expo and i listen very carefully to the probability. >> yes, mr. speaker, i do support free trade. i asked the prime minister britain as an onshore tax haven with lower house standards, lower environmental standards, lower labor rights or will she ensure any bilateral trade agreements with america or canada does not contain new powers for transnational government companies to sue our government in response to protect our environment by our workers through the independence day. >> first of all, the honorable gentleman misrepresented t. tip which has happened before. we will be going out there to get the right deal in trade for the united kingdom with other countries around the globe. we have a real opportunity to be
a global leader in that is what we will be. >> european union delegation to the g20 and we are delighted that the second european union free movement of people between one of its member states is going to invest with united kingdom leaves the european union. that is the common travel. i circulated by the secretary of state on the floor of the house. to ireland and britain is built on equal rights. for the prime minister advised there will be no change at all today ireland act of 1948 as minted in 1949 which gives irish citizens born on foreign status in the united kingdom. >> the honorable gentleman has referred to a tribal area and discussions taking place with the irish government prior to
the decision for us to leave the european union to consider how we can enhance and improve arrangements we had in those discussion continue against the different circumstances. >> i'm extremely grateful to the prime minister and colleagues >> the newsnight the leaves that the arms control committee of this house is going to recommend the government no longer sells arms to saudi arabia. i rather agree with them. the point is they are doing this on the basis they say of having seen a dropped report from the committee. this has always taken an extremely seriously when draft reports are draft reports are leaked from committees to the media. >> last year the u.s. and china reached an agreement on combating cybercrime including efforts to stop theft of intellectual property and state-sponsored computer hacking. computer security analysts discuss the agreement on attacks
coming from china and u.s.-china relations. the panic council host at this hour 15 minute discussion. >> good afternoon, everyone. welcome to the new school year. i told my daughter's religious learning block to the guys. i'm jon huntsman, chair of the atlantic council. we are delighted to have you here this afternoon did today's event, the art of cyberwere cohosted by the brent scowcroft center for asia security and cyberstatecraft initiatives are part of the councils series. a broader effort to examine ongoing affairs and cross state relations. i would like to also ballclub all those watching online. i encourage you to join the conversation on twitter using
hashed out a few cyber. last september president barack obama and chinese president xi to curtail cyberespionage. while many initially doubted the effect of ms. of the deal, recent reports by the private sector and department of justice indicate a sharp decline and cyberattacks against u.s. companies over the past year. china's neighbors in the asia-pacific region, however, face a different set of realities. over the past year alone the region's remarkable pace of economic growth and the territorial disputes and increasing military expenditures have all been fact is that numerous cybercampaigns against governments and businesses allegedly originating from china. in hong kong in the lead up to last sunday's legislative elections, government agencies
were targeted by cyberattack originating from china. similarly, taiwan has been hit by chinese hackers on a nearly daily basis since the may inauguration of the president. it's ruling party has become a frequent target of cyberattacks as part of the campaign to obtain information about the party's policies towards china and its views on taiwanese independence. in southeast asia, countries with competing claims to the south china sea has faced a string of cyberattacks coinciding with times of heightened geopolitical tensions. furthermore this july after a tribunal at the hague rejected beijing's claims to the sea, flight information streams and sound systems in major airports in vietnam were hacked to spread messages disputing the decision.
around the same time come in many key government websites in the philippines were knocked offline in a massive distributed denial of service attack. at the geopolitical implications of such disagreement spilling over to the cyberrealm are significant and likely to continue as tensions simmer in the region. therefore a closer look at all of this is key in understanding our policy choices and options ahead. today we are honored to have a great group of experts discuss how the region's fluid geopolitics drives cybercampaigns and how the public and private sectors can better avoid falling easy prey to hackers. sam sacks will moderate today's conversation with william glass, bob manning and denise jones. before we start, i would like to place my sincere appreciation to
the taipei economic and cultural representative office for their continuous engagement in support of the council and mayor brent scowcroft center. without further ado, i would like to thank our media partner as well from the "christian science monitor" for joining us today and with that, sam, the floor is yours. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you very much come ambassador huntsman. it's my honor to introduce the distinguished panel today. we have william glass, a threat intelligence analyst who previously worked with the u.s. government on the bias in u.s. industry and the cyberthreat landscape. nice job on the deadbeat or direct your at the technologies program, and also worked with u.s. industry and an expert on cybersecurity and technology
innovation. and robert manning at the atlantic council comes from dni state departments, policy planning office and regional issues. so with that, let's dive into the conversation. i'll conversation. all welcomed the panel is to come up and we can begin the discussion. i thought we would begin today first i talking about very briefly before a main pillars chinese cyberstrategy and i take you to use the opportunity to dive into each of these pillars looking at economic and industrial motivation for chinese cyberoperations as well as the geopolitical or policy mentions, and domestic information control. these are all overlapping a very important pillars of the way the chinese leadership and
cyberstrategy. so i wanted to first begin with a topic that is timely as ambassador huntsman mentioned was coming up on the one-year anniversary after the agreement last year, looking at repercussions of this agreement and particular how tiny cyberdignity over the past year has been impacted following this agreement. i want to open up the discussion and asking to share some insights on what we've seen in the past and an agreement. >> thanks for having us. i can't take credit for having written that report next year and there's a whole slew of us working sometimes long into the night. i will summarize a couple of the key points we found. we looked at the holdings of our data that we had from various sources from company engagements from collection announcements on
the internet and we wanted to see what impact the agreement between president obama and president xi had had over the last six months since it was signed. long story short, we saw a dramatic decline in dignity that we had seen or recognized corporate networks that we can trace back to chinese organization or china sponsored groups. something on the order of more than 80% going down. in order to get there, we looked at approximately 262 different compromises that we saw. we look at 26 different countries. we looked at 72 different groups we expect emanating from china overall. it's not to say the chinese groups are necessarily gone. they are still out there, still lacked it, certainly going after some particular industries, be less voluminous the more targeted and going after
companies that are particularly hot topic these days. navigational technology just a few. so we wanted to say something about what we've seen. there are a number of fact is that winning to the decline that we saw and it's our contention the agreement between president obama and president xi was just one of what we've seen so far. >> thank you. at the moment right before the announcement of the cyberagreement last year, i remember hearing washington there was a lot of guys. everyone thought the u.s. government was on the verge of coming out with sanctions against chinese companies for the first time they were succeeded by cybernaval industrial espionage. at the last minute, the delegation came and all of a sudden the sanctions laws. since then there's been a lot of
discussion about whether the policy pools that u.s. government has in terms of influencing and deterring chinese behavior. i wanted to ask the panelists if you have any thoughts on what are the tools that you think the u.s. government should consider if we want to get in this trajectory. >> i think it really depends on what kind of cyberactivities you want to deter. it is not useful to talk about deterrence in the cyberrealm from a nuclear day of because we are talking about a lot of different activities. cybercrime, really difficult to deter because it is easy to access capabilities, easy to anonymize and obfuscate the sources said the attack. it is cheap to acquire the infrastructure in this kind of stuff. law enforcement is not set up well to prosecute, to identify these people. so that scenario where the tool
is deter that type of activity, we need more development to improve. on the other side of the spec term, when you look at really catastrophic cyberattacks, you could argue we've effectively deterred those things because of our conventional military capabilities. if you attack our power grid and bring our power grid down, with many other options on the table to retaliate. when people talk about building a cybernuclear bomb, a lot of folks that are new to the issue had sorted views that example. it's not particularly useful. you know, we wouldn't necessarily respond to a catastrophic cyberattack using cybercapabilities. so a lot of the tools that the u.s. government i would argue
has used in response to sco nosh, cyberespionage, damaging cyberattacks has been outside of the realm in part because we don't want to set about precedent. we don't want to condone the activity. it's a slippery slope. reviews diplomatic action to all of the type of activities. >> to think sanctions are still on the table that the u.s. government will report a firm in the next year or two? >> if i were a u.s. government negotiator, i would certainly always keep it on the table. so i think that is very possible. everyone is kind of waiting to see, you know, has the deal actually have an effect? will mentioned the data, the
trends they had seen. a lot of folks say the chinese are getting better, more covert. they are switching from the pla in terms of conducting activities to parts that are quite frankly better at covering their tracks. and there is also some discussion it is possible that the chinese are seen a diminished return on cyberespionage because they want to climb the value chain in terms of industrial basis. they want to be providing goods and services at the higher end of the value chain and stealing blueprints, stealing ip doesn't necessarily enable you to develop an internal capability. said they have been out biotech, a.i., as key areas where they want to grow their industrial capacity, their industrial capability. and you have to train algorithms, machine learning. that's a totally different technology development process.
>> one of the findings from a recent report your adulthood argued that while he seen a decline in traditional hacking activity, we've seen more of an emphasis on using partnership with the technology transfer. can you comment more on that trend? >> sure, it comes back to a certain limit to which you can derive value from stealing blueprints and sent them. he made the people who know actually how to build it. i think part of the reduction is an attempt to say hey, look, we are going to scale this back a little bit and try to build on a more friendly environment for western companies to come to china and feel like they can invest a significant amount of money or make partnerships to provide the expertise. there's too much of a perception that their hard-won intellectual property, research and development has cost hundreds of
millions of dollars over however many years. they have a feeling that will feeling that will be erased or stolen from them, they will be less likely to make a partnership like that. so this could also be a recognition that they are getting less bang for their buck in terms of stealing that an better to invite them to come to china and for research to get the value that way. >> and advice for u.s. western and is great on how to engage in the market in china, but also protect yourself from the threat? >> so i spent some time with the forensic analysis guys that work with us and they are the guys that go into how the problem and do a forensic analysis to determine what happened, who stole what end they always say that they advise people to operate under the assumption that you are breached. they used to be a perimeter model where you could set up a wall to use in medieval analogy
and you could pretty much keep everything out. now it's probably not going to be as effective, so you've got to be able to say i have to operate on the assumption that there is a bad guy in a network could a network. what do i have to do to make sure i can mitigate the damage once there are the inside. there are various strategies you can do with not that much interest to you guys. there are certain options out there and kind of growing up that needs to occur. i'll just take it aside for companies in the asia-pacific as some of our responders put together an end trend report earlier this month where we found that the average dwell time for a cyberespionage act or inside a corporate network in the asia-pacific is around 520 days. in the united states is about 146. europe into a greater extent the
asia-pacific are a couple of years behind in recognizing the threat that they face, understanding groups are coming for the technology. they are very skilled at getting in. a lot of times network security is pretty lax by itself. the fact that these groups are able to stay inside a corporate network for 520 days, bordering on two years, the amount of technology and information are proprietary stuff that can be stolen during an enemy at times is extremely high. >> i will pivot away from the espionage angle and i want to talk about information technology policy in china. this is an area where we seen a rapid buildout of laws and regulations under the xi jinping administration. can you talk about what you are seeing in terms of china's efforts to build up a cybergovernance regime? >> well, i think it's part of a larger trend that i find a little disturbing and bad as the
markets are closed and in all states of devices, regulatory and otherwise to squeeze out american firearms and build national champions of their own, particularly they've gone after i.t. firms, apple, qualcomm and others. i think there is still some back-and-forth about trying to get them to back off some of these legal devices they come up with. it is a troubling trend because i don't see how they get from bear to the so-called reforms they want to implement. i think it is a larger problem for them and a larger problem and the overall u.s.-china relationship. i think, you know, as i recall,
one of the reasons they came around was they were really stunned at our attribution capability that we identified which office in the pla was doing it, who was doing it and we then went on to face the age of one of the guys doing it. that was kind of woken them up and wondered what else we can do. there's some basic tools and brought policy. those are the fundamentals. i prefer threat in many instances. but i think the stakes for them in the relationship in the $630 to your trade relationship and so there's really than it on how far they go. >> .as well, that what we see in china i.t. and the policy space is sort of a conflating of
industrial interests and security interests. you know, i think china, just like any other country has legitimate security concerns about the products they buy this product space to care. when you look at the design and implementation of the laws and regulations and policies they are pursuing in this space, i think of these from my vantage point that the underlying motivation is really to advance the industry, even though they have legitimate security concerns. this is very obvious when you look at their 13 five-year plan. you look at statement that xi jinping, that would weigh the farmer had to be cic, when you look at the longer-term plan, this type of ideology is reinforced across the board.
i think there are probably three trends that are worth noting as well and the policy space in china. the first is that this sort of expansion as well as a centralization of private security under xi jinping. you see that across the military. you see that across the intelligence apparatus as well as the civilian government. they fought a number of flaws, a number of new regulations specifically to do this as well as structural reforms internally to centralize a lot of the different things taking place. i know there were at least it came different entities across the pla that were involved in cyberuntil the recent reform. another area where you see in terms of trends that are going to continue, that is a term that's been thrown around a lot and people are seeing secure and trustworthy. that along with data globalization and content
censorship will continue. i don't think there's really any hope within this administration as those that committee is diminishing. you see a great example of that is in the recent cybersecurity law, the draft that was released we see products engine into additional security reviews and requirements. also that a lot of the definitions in terms of who is covered and what types of reviews they will have to undergo has got more and if u.s. and that leads me sorted to the third trend, which is that chinese cybersecurity laws and policies are intentionally ambiguous and they do this for a reason. they do this because it provides great flick ability. it provided the government with the discretion to determine how to enforce things and whether to enforce things to their advantage. and also some analysts have
said, shield them from formal wto complaints as well. if a lot of the laws are not finalized or if a lot of the regulations don't actually have promulgated drive-ins, it is harder to bring disputes. so there is reason behind it all. >> it's also easier to look like they are making concessions to push back from u.s. government in u.s. industry. not sure there was a lot of resistance to the banking sector regulations which would've put burden some requirements in china's banking sector and the chinese government suspended these laws. meanwhile, for a year they had been implemented informally in ways that create significant disadvantages in those sectors. the victory at this point is something the obama administration needs to be careful about claiming is that the regulations. i wanted to talk a little bit
about the military reforms in china and the point you raised. xi jinping has undertaken striking reforms and i think there were two schools of thought about what the implications of this have been in terms of chinese cyberactivity. one has caused some paralysis in the pla and that may be why we seem not. the other is that it's made for a more refined, more targeted approach. i wonder -- i think you've done some implications on these reforms. >> is pretty interesting stuff they did at the end of last year with xi jinping said we have this new strategic force anyone to cyberthings, information warfare, technologically relevant skills that they have. but that was kind of data we didn't hear much about it afterward. and so, some details has started to come out when xi jinping gave a speech the other week about
how it is to be the other services and the military army and the other icbms. and it would be really interesting to watch where this goes. there were a wide array of organizations that used to have a cyberthing attached to them. we have an issue and everybody wants to have cyberin front of their name, even if they are janitorial services are sent in like that. to understand just that, areas some slowdown, but i think there's also going to be of course they have 100 teams ready and a nine-year spread. we should expect them by 2024.
i don't think it will take them out. that was one of the factors that we looked at when we wanted to figure out why we might have been seen some of these declines and a large and huge bureaucracy that's also politically controlled and trained to reorient his help in eliminating people's jobs and an anticorruption drive going on where pla derived some commercial benefit from some of the things he was doing. there's a lot of commotion going on and that could be very well part of what we are seeing. >> i think this touches on another trend destinies mentioned centralization of different actors. there's a misconception about china's political system, which is that cyberstrategy has always been top down in terms of coordination, but meanwhile you have all these different actors, the pla and the civilian industry, academia competing and
i wonder if the panel has any thoughts about being in cyberspace administration of china. it was set up in february 2014 under the xi jinping administration to take the lead on cybersecurity initiatives. any thoughts about what the creation of this entity will mean for cybersecurity and cyberpolicy in china? it's okay if not. these are all topics. you actually offered a piece on this. so it's not quite fair for us. she actually authored so maybe you could answer that question from the audience. >> sure, thanks, denise. my assessmenis the cyberstate administration of china at a verge that one of the most powerful entities in the political bureaucracy in china.
at the same time, there's still some internal turf battles been sorted out but are not completely over. you have the ministry of public security that's played an increasingly important role in driving these policies in studying the cybersecurity agenda. i think the turf war between these two is still playing out. we saw it play out in the cybersecurity law and that highlights the pension which is on the one hand you have a government that want to clamp down on digital information and in terms of the hardware, the software involved, but you also want to create national champions in the technology space and really promote entrepreneurship and innovation. i think that is being hotly debated in the bureaucracy right now in the ministry of public security are sorted in the mix so that debate and it's an open-ended question who's going to emerge as the more influential player.
i have a question actually. what do you think is the delineation of roles between cac and the new cybersecurity association of china and then the new standard organization to see 264 to 80. >> yeah, so this cybersecurity assist the addition of china as an entity -- an industry group that was established this spring under the cyberspace administration of china and essentially a party spot their industry association. it includes not only prominent government entities, it includes research institutions as well as members of chinese private industries. some of the most important chinese cybersecurity companies and tech firms. so far there are no foreign members involved in it and its mandate is essentially to cybersecurity and china as you
are aware of the vulnerabilities in these areas as well as national champions, how come things like alibaba go out and compete globally. it is still a little too early to figure out what its influence is going to be within the broader cybergovernance regime. i think we are going to need to watch and see when the final draft of the cybersecurity law comes out and these other regulations that are still pending, are they going to have a voice? are they going to represent chinese industry question or there is a myth that chinese firms are always aligned with the government's agenda on this regulations and that's not always true. cross-border dataflow hurt companies like alibaba that want to go out and compete and don't want restrictions on data flows. that's something we'll have to keep an eye on. >> if i could touch on some income in the cac and something
he has to talk about with great frequency which is the concept of cybersovereignty. the country should be allowed to control the internet and wires that are inside the country's borders and no one else was allowed to tell them how to run it. obviously great concern to the chinese they wanted make sure they know what information is flowing around and who knows how much money and stuff like that. i can, which is the internet corporation for assigned names and yours. listed up in 1988 to cover the addressing and i apologize if some of you know this. google.com figures out what ip address today so your computer can take you there. there has been a lot of debate, especially since 2013 when he who shall not be named aside to let everybody know that the intelligence community was doing. he said to the united states government have control over the internet.
the sounds of a terrible idea. i don't like this. a lot of countries were legitimately concerned i would say. china and russia and a couple other countries were eager to take a control in the telecommunications which governs phone lines than most other international agreements when it comes to telecommunications. the issue without for a lot of people including the united states government was having it as a u.n. body would allow for government to exert undue influence in china has a veto and so does russia on the vote and the stones ever reaching the issue, we could be in really big trouble. fortunately, the u.s. government is supporting the complete privatization. it will come out from under the department of commerce and will be this super national organization that is run not by any government whatsoever against a determined loans and
kind of a big jury for those of us would like to have free information flow on the internet. bring in a cross-border flows in certain chinese companies have to be connected to the world economy in order to make money. there's probably a disconnect somewhere between where the government wants to have more control for companies like alibaba or whoever say we actually like this. we'll have an ability to make more money. >> thanks for that. the internet governance is a topic that gets us into a broader -- the other pillar we haven't touched on yet which is sort of foreign policy and china's role and cyberhas a pool of not. bob, you've done a lot of work on that. he won a comment on a tool of these broader objectives? >> i think it is just another
era so to speak and i think governor huntsman to lose some of the areas that the south china sea with the philippines, vietnam and thailand particularly since the president has an elected using it to be disruptive in getting their message across. but i also think the cyberassociation you mentioned, we had a meeting where they seem to be stored as the face of chinese cyberpolls. they want to engage. they want to talk about cooperation, codes of conduct and that sort of thing. i'm reserving judgment on it, but i think all the things you talked about are added and other work in progress.
it's not clear where the ball is going to land. the more pressure we put on, probably the better in terms of what the results will be. i think in terms of industrial espionage, they're probably be in a lot more discreet and discerning rather than the kind of press they had done in the past, but i don't think it's over. and the overriding goal is still modernizing the chinese economy and i think the concern is that they put forward an agenda with the market was supposed to be the determining factor and that seems to have been fallen by the wayside and the state is clearly the determining factor instead of also what we are hearing about consolidation.
so after getting a corrupt state entity bigger, it will make a difference. >> i want to focus on something you said about cooperation and collaborating a code of contact. we've been quite pessimistic so far on this panel. are there areas for collaboration in the cyberrealm of china? >> well, i think there is room for more detail codes of conduct. i think there's some basic -- i don't want a job too far, that there is an analogy to the nuclear deterrent in that both sides have agreed not to attack each other's critical infrastructure, will. i don't know what else you could apply that type of logic to, but i also think the more china
develops, the more vulnerable against them this vulnerability cuts across the old strategic relationship with china. i guess the way i look out it is it to us 20 years for the soviet union before we had the strategic framework. inc. we are in the early phases of trying to develop one and cyberis part of that was nuclear missile defense, a whole range of strategic issues where we have no wonders indeed from china was the weather. if you think about how bad our relationship with russia is, we still have a certain amount of predictability from arms control agreement that we've made in the past and we don't have anything like that with china. it is all very uncertain. i know the u.s. government for a long time is try to push them on a strategic dollar. i just noticed that the traffic of chinese big 10 people coming through here, one senior person
came through here recently. i did a project a couple years ago and extended the terms. i was trying to layout the rationale for developing a framework and they all looked dead he like i was smoking some day. this guy comes here now and says we need a strategic framework. i think it is going to take a while and i think cyberis part of the larger strategic framework that we have to develop. i don't have any illusions about anything have been. >> the norm on a green that to attack each other's critical infrastructure. if you actually read the tags there, it says during peace time. i think that it's pretty safe to assume that if you are attacking each other's critical in her structure, you know, you were somewhat in war. we are talking about -- i am not sure that the value of that
particular norm if we are going to call it a norm at this point. i think it is a step in the right direction, but it's obviously attenuated by the condition. the chinese and the u.s. have an ongoing dialogue as mentioned where, you know, they are trying to establish standard operating procedures in terms of when there's a crisis, when you need technical assistance, would you call? what are the hot lines? is means of communication. i think that's helped old. but at the end of the day, the real sticking point between the u.s. and china making a lot of progress on labor norms is the issue of internet sovereignty. the fundamental disagreement about whether or not they have sovereign right to rid the internet and the ability to control the data flow of the
internet, has secured, how regulated and that i take is the biggest barrier to making progress. >> how sustainable chinese pilot did. the overall goal, the antithesis of innovation. i think there's going to be a tension there. i don't how how it's going to come out. so far disappointed. everything i see going on the wrong way. the intimidation with the chinese decision maker and the military and stable enterprise and the governor, you are free to do anything. you know, they will sit there and take corruption campaign
after you if they don't like what you are doing. >> i want to take a moment at this point to open the floor up with questions from the audience. we have touched on a lot of different topics. any questions? >> i'm at the atlantic council. i would like to reverse the bidding. assuming this is a competent a shade on american cyberespionage. the reason i asked the question as a couple of companies on whose board i said and so brad, some with joint ventures in china. the united states and europe and from disgruntled employees. the report this to legal authorities, we get a truck seen as too big of a problem.
how would you compare chinese hacking with domestic hacking in terms of being a menace to u.s. corporations? the >> i would say about one fourths in my name. certainly -- i should back up. the u.s. is one of the only countries that have specific law on the books that they will not conduct commercial espionage. virtually every other country does that with their intelligence services. or a suspect it is doing so. certainly given the attributions and challenges as some people have had, there is a possibility that competitors might say i'm going to hire this company over here, make it look like the chinese did it. great, wonderful. despite that being highly illegal, there's some pretty stiff penalties for doing so,
but you have to prove that it actually occurs and the burden of proof in cyberspace is necessary law. in cyberspace there so many opportunities for obfuscation or operations to make it look like somebody else did it. coming to the level of evidence is extremely difficult. you have to look at the agreement signed between president obama and president xi that we will not support cyberenabled espionage that benefit others. if you can prove those things you have a violation. i think it is challenging to do so. criminal actors, you know, have gotten extremely good. they've looked at what the nationstate groups have done. their farm life tasking systems. they have walls that they between the people on the keyboard and the people who are financing over here. the rise of digital currencies. the one that everybody knows about has made this wildly
profitable enterprise to be undergoing and it's actually interesting about the big point mining and storage goes on in china. so that is all another issue for the government to figure out we want to keep control of currency but is digital currency as well. people are doing a lot of crime over there. china is the largest market by far. funny up opportunity for stealing people's payment account for whoever and buying whatever you want. i think you are right in saying that the nationstate act or skip or press in terms of total volume in damage, criminals are probably doing more. >> other questions?
>> i am sharing. i have a question about the supply chain. there is an issue at the routers that had to deal with china. like you said, the hacker could be in cooperation for 500 days. that's why they are caught. i bet you there's a lot of routers that have still been compromised. has that been addressed? i don't even think china might know which ones are still compromised. how has that been resolved because there were so many of those routers. thank you. >> all picked out one up i guess. the national counterintelligence and security center is the organization in the united states government to handle supply of james garrity. i don't know if anyone knows about the book making its way around about a basically has a lot to do with pre-compromising digital technology that goes into fighter jets in advanced missile destroyers and somebody could turn it off whenever they wanted to.
suddenly your antimissile system is a giant paperweight that float. so it is an issue. the amount of technological hardware that we import is massive. a long time ago the decision was a bit of his more economical to produce overseas rather than here in the united states. now we are living with the consequence of that decision. we have to recognize the problem and develop some sort of structure and grammar to deal with and monitor where these things are coming from and make sure they are all but gone somewhere. it is no doubt a big challenge. >> since no one else is asking. >> we will note the last few minutes of the program to go back to the u.s. senate. a quick reminder you can see this in any event program on line anytime at c-span.org.
the senate about to gavel and peered a water resources and development bill on the agenda for much of the legislative day today. they will break between 12:30 into the 10:00 eastern to attend their party lunches. and now live to the floor at the u.s. senate here on c-span2. . the se. the chaplain, dr. barry black, will lead the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. god our guide, we know not what a day may bring. w're grateful for the knowledge