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tv   TWA 800  CSPAN  October 15, 2016 8:45pm-10:01pm EDT

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because they may not aspire to be a metropolitan area like chicago or st. louis doesn't mean that they cannot be proud of themselves. i think the book shows amply that some of the missed chances just were not up there doing, it happened and the main thing is just to be proud of what you have and happy with what you have. i think the townhouse that. i think that they are not interested in being a new york but the perception nationally is that the phrase meaning the average person as if the average person is worth listening to, i think he is.
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> i'm going to take off my jacket. we may have a few latecomers but they will come to the back. first of all we would like to welcome you to the twa museum. sar prided joy. we hope you enjoy it. also if you want to tour the museum you'll have to go back out and around and we have a flight group that might be of
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interest to you. it's my pleasure to welcome jack to the museum for this presentation. he will be doing q&a after his speech. so welcome, jack. [applause] >> thank you for having me and this is a great venue. i suspect it's the first time booktv has ever done one from an airplane hangar. this is my tenth booktv. let me just start with a little background. many of you know on july 17, 1996 at 8:19 p.m. twa flight 800 left jfk airport in new york bound for paris. 12 minutes later at 8:31 p.m. off the coast of long island the popular south shore of long island it was blown out of the sky. 230 people were killed, 53 of
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them were twa employees. many of you in this room knew at least some of those people. there is a memorial in their honor at the museum and if i were coming here just to spread some conspiracy theory i would be dishonoring their memory and i would be insulting you instead of telling you what happened on that july -- the mite of july 17, 1996 and the months and years thereafter. their people in this room who know a whole lot more about aviation than i do and at the end of my conversation i'm going to take questions and answers because i know some of you have first-hand experience of the tragedy. here's what we know. in the last few years researchers have found the motherload of new information
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found in all places the cia which raises the question what the cia is doing involving itself in an airplane crash. we have also got interesting videos. i have a lot of whistleblowers from inside the investigation that have come forward so the state of our knowledge today is much better than it was 20 years ago. when i say we i have to give credit to the people who do the research like my sometimes partner james sanders. christina borges and you came here and spoke former cbs producer, ray layer a former united airline pilot and investigator attorney john clark roger aranov and hank hughes senior investigator and others. they deserve a lot of the credit for digging up information i'm going to share. it is one let that be known.
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since the book is, i've heard from at least 100 individuals from within the military or the aviation industry supporting my being. many of them worked for and at the investigation itself. many of them are still angry about what they experienced. here is what we know. according to an air traffic controller in fact he just e-mailed today saying he loved the book and he thanked me for treating his story accurately because i wrote about him. i did not release his name. he worked for 38 years as an air traffic controller, he wants to keep his pension. you have heard that from a lot of people but what he told me that night and this is a quote, he said a primary radar return indicated vertical movement intersecting twa 800.
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that is what precipitated the panic in washington d.c.. that was the first notice. it wasn't the eyewitnesses. he came out of the air traffic control centers in new york something happened to his plan and seconds before it intercepted better plane that disappeared. twa 800 dedication disappear. the supervisor comes over to the correspondent and he says have you ever seen anything like this before and he said yeah. it was a missile tests when i was in the navy. i saw all the time. it wasn't something unknown to him. the next day he comes back in and he wants to review the tape and he goes to the supervisor i want to take a look at the tape and the supervisor says no, it's gone. this is a violation of all protocol. it is supposed to stay there for future adjudication. now the only person who has
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spoken about what happened next in washington is richard clarke the former anti-terror czar who is called a liar and a brighter. it's hard to sort through the information get the truth that we spent some time on this. everyone else who writes about that period of time in that administration is completely silent about the event, not a word even though as the number one news story in 1996 and richard clarke titles the chapter the almost war of 1996. clark and i think he telling the truth here convenes a meeting of the anti-terror group in the situation room, and in the white house at 9:00, half-hour after the crash. i know from hillary clinton's log from my sources in the white house at the clintons return to the white house about 8:30 after
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a routine fund-raiser nearby. they retreated to the family quarters in there they stayed for the rest of the night. they did not come out of the situation room. my source is a very good source. i asked him who was with them and he could only come up with one name and that was sandy berger. now berger, the deputy national security adviser and blake was the national security adviser. he knew when the conversation got political he left the room. berger was the political guy in political positions were about to be made. among them was the insertion of the fbi into the investigation. one of my most helpful people on this book and is going to come into the story later on, he was a former ntsb board member. there are only five members on the national transportation board. a. powerful position in vernon is one of the leading experts in the country.
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he was so knowledgeable that "cnn" called them amen that night to do on air interpretation, on air commentary. he spent the next six hours there and he goes i wasn't there for a couple of hours and already the fbi had taken over the investigation. because as a former board member of the ntsb i knew this was unprecedented and illegal. the ntsb was set up as an independent at that point they sacrificed their independence and they yielded to the fbi. no one knew at that time that some other insertion was taking place on that very first day and this we know from the whole treasure trove of cia documents that we have unearthed and here's what we know. according to our own documents quote the director of intelligence became involved in the missile theory the day after
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the crash occurred. the cia has absolutely no business being involved in this kind of event especially since the year before in 1995 the department of justice sent out a memo also unknown is the wall memo and with that wall memo it says that there is a wall between the intelligence gathering of the cia and the criminal investigators of the fbi. they cannot collaborate because it would violate people's rights who knows? george tenet in 2004 at that point was was the director of central intelligence, the head of the cia and he told the 9/11 commission that he was the first one to deduce that notion to the public about the wall.
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he wasn't the only one to talk about it but he was the first one to do it. is the cia documents proved the cia and fbi for the next 16 months would collaborate on the twa investigation which they did not say outright. the collaboration was to subvert the twa investigation. the cia had no other role and that becomes incredibly clear when you read your documents than to make all talk of missiles go away because on the opening night for tall people were talking about within the fiercest -- first the ours. we know there's one amateur video taken of the complete sequence of events. some of you may have seen it. it was aired on "msnbc" to the best of my knowledge probably two or three times. i talk to one of the fellows who is the technical director at "msnbc" and he said we showed it a few times in these three guys
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in suits came to pick up the copies and that was the end of that. the best collaboration of who we have seen i got from a 747 pilot and he was willing to give him his name and the use of his name which is a sign of some confidence. he was laid up in a hong kong hospital with that surgery and his wife came to visit and watch tv for several weeks. the start of the whole sequence of events and he said we watch the video over and over again. he said here's what we see. he said there's a bunch of people milling around on the deck and someone says look at the fireworks and a lot of other people would say the same thing. it has a red tip into grey smoky contrail. it disappears for second and
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there's a bright flash and a rather bright flash a big orange fireball in and the plane falls out of the sky. he saw the video 30 to 50 times. a nightfall, which is worth reading if you haven't read it. now we get into this cia document and they get real interested in it. on july 30, 13 days after the crash the cia analysts and i know the name of the head guy and i may or may not mention them will later come and meet with the fbi. it's a two or three man missile team and he headlines the memo to his superior holds a press or which is interesting. he tells his superior that he just met with the missile team. the missile team has already interviewed 144 excellent
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eyewitnesses to a missile attack on twa flight 8008 feet he said the evidence for a missile attack for surface to air missile is overwhelming. he said these people are mainly professionals and their testimony is too consistent for it to be anything but a missile attack. the cia analyst to brag to his superiors how he discourage the fbi from going forward with this report which was just about ready to be published and he was successful but that report never came forward. between july 30 and august 17, someone gets to the fbi. they came intending to do it justice. someone gets them before august 17 because on august 17, the fbi speaks for the first
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time to "the new york times" about eyewitnesses. the fbi was almost exclusive with "the new york times." the new york times became very dependent upon that relationship and in fact at the heart of this story i'm telling is a media scandal. more than a government scandal, more than anything else it's a media scandal. so they meet with "the new york times" and the story as reported on august 17 so they probably met on the 15th or the 16 for two weeks or so after the missile team met with the cia and "the new york times" is told that there are fewer than a dozen credible eyewitnesses and "the new york times" is allowed to interview just one of those eyewitnesses. it's a good witness. his name is michael russell. he is doing surveying work and is pretty knowledgeable anti- seize that in the corner of his eye and bright lights flash.
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then he saw the plane fall immediately out of the sky. there are two things at the ntsb would later denied happened but at the time it served a purpose. the purpose was to switch the scenario from missiles to bombs. whatever reason the administration decided the bomb was the scariest missile. there is a lot at stake in keeping airlines flying come keeping commercial traffic here in keeping people away from feeling insecure about taking airplanes. now, in total, "the new york times" would interview -- before was through the fbi would interview 258 eyewitnesses who
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saw an object streaking up and hitting an airplane. 96 of them side come up off the horizon attracted all the way up. of those 258 "the new york times" would interview before the investigation was over, zero -- i talked to 20 or 30 of them. they are still there and they still want to tell their story, zero. there was not a single one of those 258 officials if the eyewitnesses. 750 people in all gave reports to the fbi. i know people who chose not to talk to the fbi. but between the 17th and the 23rd "the new york times" kept running more stories about bombs the traces of missiles outside the plane and inside the plane.
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on the 23rd of august prime evidence found that it exploded in cabin twa 800. pointing towards a bomb but we are not ruling out missiles. clinton signs the wolf or reform bill. one of those headlines had to go and it was this one. the bombs started going away. the day before the 23rd the justice department was aware that the fbi had been talking too much so the head of the fbi investigation was called the washington -- call to washington for his first meeting washington. heading up this meeting as the information suggests his deputy
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attorney general jamie chiarelli. her name will come back and play her boss is janet reno. reno was essentially a figurehead as attorney general and of course it's quite embarrassing for them but they worked around them just like they worked around the national security council through andy berger. there is no record of what to place in a meeting on the 22nd but we do know that all behaviors begin to change immediately afterward. from the 22nd on there would be no more interviews with eyewitnesses for several months and for the wrong reasons. they searched all over the world to see if they could find a day in a place where twa flight 800, the plane was used for a dog training exercise with training
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aids. it took them several weeks to find that. between the 23rd and the 19th of december "the new york times" didn't know quite what direction to take partly because the fbi didn't know which direction to take. in december 19 the stories which is to washington and now it's the ntsb leading the direction. and what they say is that perhaps it was the mat -- mechanical failure after all. they said a mechanical failure alone might just explain what happened to flight 800. this was a problem still because we had all the exposes found all over the plane. how do we reconcile this? the next day the fbi put out a
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press release that the twa 800 plane had been used for training exercise in st. louis six weeks before this happened. on the 21st of december "the new york times" runs an article saying that very same thing and basically kills the investigation. the people, the investigators are saying it's going to be hard for us to make our case. the dog training exercise was sloppy and spilled spilled explosives etc. etc.. by the 21st "the new york times" that talk to the cops who did the training. the first person in the media to talk to that cop was me six years after-the-fact. no one had talked to him in that time and what they decided was
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that he did his exercises. he's an african wrecking guy and to use the language off to this day about what they did to him. but they did was to ruin his reputation. they ruined his his reputation to put even talk to him. they concluded that it was a sloppy exercise. the stuff that was found in the wing that dog was not capable of getting out there knowing that but that didn't matter. when the stuff is on the curtain separating the front and the back they just went with it. here's what they could have found out within hours work of the investigation. via the i, all this cop put on his report was the time of the exercise and wi-fi. he did do an exercise on the 747 on june 20 on a wi-fi indicated
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from 10452:0012:15 p.m.. it the 800th plane left the gate. with the fbi did not say they were foreign to people on board. some of you who have worked on international flights no you can't do that in 15 minutes. the cops did this exercise on a completely sterile plain. there was no one on board his plane for the whole time he did the exercise. they could have proven that an hour. now you can't dispute it. that plane looked at 12:45 with four to people ready to go to honolulu. the 20 minute period and an hour and a half exercise. it just doesn't make any sense.
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it is no way match the composition of the residue found on the plane nor does it match where they placed it. the placement is wrong, the composition is wrong and the plane is wrong. it was a total lyme. there is no euphemism to describe what they did and they or physis guys career to get it done. he still humiliated to this day. he got letters of may fta condemning cam etc. and yet to live with this but that was all the cover they needed. now from that point on the government moved into a fully different mode and that was a mechanical failure mode. some of you will remember that. i talked to a lot of twa people remembering it like getting punched in the stomach. a few people would have to bear the brunt of that story that there's something wrong with the fuel tank and a blew up. in fact when i get e-mails from people reading the book the fuel
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tankers were the angriest i will tell you that. at that point the ntsb had been totally shut out of the witness review. they were supposed to do -- the witnesses were supposed to review the saban and they were shut out. they were totally humiliated. the fbi wouldn't even look at them after they had done them. instead the fbi handed the interviews over to the cia. who else to examine interviews and decide what it is that the eyewitnesses saw. they not only had no experience they had no legal justification for this. the fbi was cited for her to do this. you could see that. they gave them, the witness statements in small doses and in time. they only gave them finally one
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third of the total eyewitness. they were only working for a third of them. didn't matter. on december 31, 1996 the cia randolph house and ran off with you are watching give me a call sometime, came to the conclusion that all he needs to do to explain what these people saw is contained within one plane itself. he decides that the nose of the plane was blown off and the plane tickets 70 or 80 degrees and then aviators in this room know what a crock that says it shot up 4000 e. and in the course of that deceive people into thinking they were receiving a missile. many people said this can't happen.
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and they went from 13000 feet to 17,000 plus feet. now we will get back to that in the second because there also contracts and creating a video to show that and that was the case. now we know that was december 31. by february, 1997 george tenet who has now been promoted to the director of central intelligence in these of political guy. he had in the number two guy. they fired the number one guy if john deutch. he signed off on this. he knows the plane falls off. this is where it is an and one heroic character from the fbi stands up and identify this guy by name. i'm not sure should mention him but he is basically the head of the two-man missile.
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on april 29, 1997 he meets with the cia and he says i don't buy this for a moment. he says we have at least 30 eyewitnesses who are going in the opposite direction. we have eight eyewitnesses who saw the missile hit the airplane. all the radar data totally disagrees with what you are trying to sell is pretty goes, i insist that you go back to the drawing board and start over. i won't buy this. i won't buy this. the other members were okay with the cia. i'm going to name him. his name is steve von garth. steve if you're listening, get in touch. and i don't think he knew this
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until recently, on april 29, 1997 the day he's fighting with the cia here in washington or new york he ends up in north carolina at least in my paper he does, interviewing one of the key eyewitnesses in this book and this story is witness number 73. i start out the book with the story up with a 73. some of you have read this and i will replay the story a little bit. in 2009, the summer of 2009 i get a call out of the blue and she goes jack cashill this is witness 73. do you know who i am? i said yes i do. here's the story and the fbi right southeast 302's witness summaries and inheres with the fbi witness summary from july 20, 1996 says about their interview with witness number 73.
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i'm going to call her sandy just to give her a name. it's a name i call her in the book. it's not a roaming. sandy tells them she's on the beach with two of her in-laws and she is an aviation, she has an interest in aviation because she's the travel professional. she said it's awfully low considering how far away and she was right. then she said i see this object come up often arise in and the smoky contrast country that comes up watching a zigzag over a close right outside the right-wing and another explosion and then she said i see the nose of the plane come off and then she said set up stalls and falls out of the sky breaking into an orange fireball. three days after the crash sandy had explained and told the fbi the breakup of that aircraft with the nose coming up first
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before anyone knew, take them weeks to map out the debris field before they could validate what she had said that no one saw it more clearly than she did. she cooperated fully with the f. the i 3 days later and her two in-laws wanted nothing to do with it. her husband wasn't with her almost broke off their engagement at that time because she talked to the fbi. the in-laws were really upset that she gave them their names but they refuse to talk. they saw what she did and maybe they had good reason. on april 29, 1987 the same day von garth is protesting the cia in washington or new york he is bounded north carolina interviewing, probably unbeknownst to him, sandy. the same day. the cia said we'll we'll take a reputed to care for. care of it. they put in a new 302 into her filed inheres with sandy told me when we talk in 2009.
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she goes, i asked her, tell me that the second interview. she goes oh yes or know about that. in the second interview i see you just found out about it. it said i had several long island iced tea cocktails that night. she said i don't even know what a long island iced tea is. i said had you had anything to drink and she said no i don't drink at all. and then i said that meets are something you don't know. there was no next interview. the cia had fully manufactured a second interview that same day and gave her testimony in the same day the fbi had a dame missile team. and then i said to her there something you don't know. she said what's that? you are not the only one. they did that to several key eyewitnesses.
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they manufactured out of whole cloth pulling new witness statements to justify the theory they were trying to sell. in a later meeting, and this was made public in about 1999 with the ntsb, the cia analyst conceded that only one witness reported seeing the crippled plane or the nose come off and it was the man on the bridge. i have gotten to know the man on the bridge pretty well. his name is mike. when they closed the case with the fbi in november 1997 they showed her one time and many of you have seen this animation showing the plane flying along the nose closeouts spontaneously a fuel tank explosion.
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the plane shoots up 3000 or 4000 feet confusing the witnesses. they built it all around, they finally conceded to the ntsb some years later around the testimony of this one man, the man on the bridge and it turns out of course that they based it on the second interview with my choir because in his first interview he said exactly what sandy said. the second of three said i didn't see it come off the beach. i sighed coming up 20 degrees. they just made that up and put it into the record. there was no second interview of my choir and no second interview with sandy. someone who is flying above it was a navy guy with experience
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sought out of his plane on a u.s. airplane and they made up a new interview for him. they said he sought going from left to right. there are probably more but these are the ones we have been able to prove. finally going through cia documents we just found a year or so ago we find out that they say this is a quote that the maximum calculated altitude for twa 800 was 14500 feet. they knew that. not the 17,000 plus they sold to the american people. they show that video once. when the fbi closed the case of november and no one in the media even asked what is the cia doing here let alone the stuff is. how can you sell us this?
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and then james sanders who worked with me on one previous book for the earliest explorer and has explorer and has called me one explorer and is called a one-day year ago and said he won't believe what happened. they just sent in a the video. i said the video? yes. they had been sending the freedom of information act to the fbi for some time and went at it and look at it we realized it is not the video from july 17 but it's almost as useful. the video we knew about from july 12, 1996 and it was a video shot in long island by an amateur. we knew it existed because the fbi in the cia talked about it but it was a video of an apparent missile. the intelligence agencies reviewed the video early on and said this was the missile we were looking at in a talk about the smoked out going up blah, blah, blah.
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we saw the video relies it was just more than a smoke show coming up. we saw the flaming debris coming down. this is five days before flight 800 went down and is now close to long island and obvious missile test taking place. that would matter a whole lot except when the fbi closed the case in november 1997 they said there have been no missile test in the area for at least two years. they know that this happened. they knew about this video. they did not enter that video into evidence and from the cia documents we also know many eyewitnesses saw a missile test on july 7, 1996 so you have july 7 in you have july 12 and you have july 17. you have don't have to be at math major to look at the sequence here. every five days. after my book came out i heard from other people who set him up as matters on july 7 i was camping and i saw this, yeah it does matter.
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now, from november 1997 on the case was basically close. the ntsb held to hearings and no eyewitnesses were allowed to testify. the first time ever, totally unprecedented. basically they get away with it. the most successful cover-up in history, the great untold story of our time. 53 of her colleagues die without justice being brought to them or to their families. i'm going to jump ahead a little bit and add some useful anecdotes. the deputy attorney general who oversaw this investigation in may of 1997 after this was essentially put to bed gets a new job despite the fact that she has no experience in
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mortgage or finance. she becomes vice chairman of fannie mae. and the next five and a half years, the next six years she made $25 million as vice chairman of fannie mae. and then she stepped down to take one of five democratic positions on the 9/11 commission , so she is basically overseeing the events leading up to september 11. in april of 2004 attorney general john ashcroft testified that the 9/11 commission and he says and this is a quote the single greatest structural cause for september 11 was the wall. it's the wall memo that prevented the cia and fbi the fbi from speaking to each other. i should note that steve on guard ahead of the missile team
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that i mentioned protested loudly about the wall in the run-up to september 11 and he went public with this. he said and we can't look for them as an intelligence issue? two weeks after he said that because people are going to die. two weeks later 18 of his buddies hijacked the four planes and killed 3000 people because of the wall. so full disclosure compels me to inform you that due for memorandum is a member of this commission. the author of that memo was missed jamie gorelick. as the nation learned in the aftermath of 9/11 the wall that was preached obtusely to protect the secrets of twa 800 help off to for me when it came to protect in the security of
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united states and that's where we are today. now i'm going to close with one last anecdote because this is a fun manic death and then we'll take some questions. when we take questions by the way if he could speak up because we are picking up the ambient noise. in early july of this year an excellent -- hosted a press and they invited me to speak. i talked to vernon gross the ntsb board member the night before. if i start coughing by the way just ignore it. vernon come i didn't even know he lives in washington i said when it comes to the press club and check it out? he comes down to invite him up to speak and he speaks for about
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10 minutes and then he said to me afterwards, by the way tomorrow i'm having lunch with the chairman of the national transportation safety board. he said, do you want to come? i said yeah, sure. [laughter] so i go to lunch and then meet the new chairman of the national safety board. i'm looking for a point of connection with chris. i'm trying not to push. i'm just laying back trying to convince them that i'm sane and this is a story worth looking at. then i realized what it was. he mentioned he had been on the board between 1989 and 1992 when clinton replaced him. now, what was interesting about that as is i had written about that in the book. i didn't know anything about this back round other than now. he had a narrow physics degree, a law degree from harvard and he was a pilot.
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as the "washington post" pointed out the time he was replaced by jim hall whose best qualification was his driver's license. this is what the "washington post" that at the time. and i said i wrote about that in my book and he said i posted that on my wall. the article from the "washington post." here are two things i didn't know about until i met him. one, he was a democrat. so you are fighting -- replacing a democrat with a democrat replacing one with extraordinary extraordinary -- and he's an african-american. to replace them was the foresight of the clinton administration. he adds two more people before 1996 both of them political
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operatives. by the time 1996 comes jim hall is now the chairman and they had three of the five board members and so when the fbi sent over the investigation they didn't roll over. ..
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>> fares. >> why not those almost unpatriotic be the evidences of overwhelmingly points to naval involvement on that night. there may have been allied ship with maneuvers i do not know i literally do not know who fired the missile but i do know that missiles were fired.
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the evidence overwhelmingly argues for naval involvement. except in your time chose not to ignore alleged one there was one hovering right above flight 800 when it blew up. it issues as cooperative the engagement communication node. they cooperate to do the missile test to shoot missiles out of the sky. and it was sitting right there. we also know there other ships in the area. we do know that we just
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don't know who fired. >> [inaudible] was not conditioned and tell when your after. >> i have seen the report it does have a ring of credibility and i did try to check it out there were a couple of names mentioned i have tried to contact those people and guess what? they don't return my phone calls. [laughter] the would not rule that out. it was not mentioned the fbi can say there were three submarines that we've mentioned of indian media vicinity. -- immediate vicinity from
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dave number-one the navy was lying to the fbi to. there is one incident where somebody asked why it is the navy involved in the investigation when they could be the culprit? they help them out of the room. so that being said bid navy would not and could not have covered this up by their own . it had to come from above. >> justin accident? to make people last was there anybody on the plane that deserved their own missile? >> know they would not shoot down one of the aircraft but in 1988 they did shootdown the iranian ambassador plane
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>> i see the reluctance to labatt is the election of 1996. the navy could not have kept this under wraps. >> [inaudible] >> for those of you that's sought in july comment to of
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the people of half a dozen high whistle-blowers were pathologist. when i was watching that i could if we do separate documentary on what happened to the bodies because the fuel tank explosion they would burn but in this case then dna was used from one body to another and pieces of bone sticking into this side of the fuselage. they have to have pretty tough stomachs to do this. but the injuries were not all consistent with a fuel tank fire. at least not where the explosive devices were the most damaging. good question. >>
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[inaudible] >> the greater part of the wreckage was reassembled at the hangar and long island were they did investigation and then they would send the trip -- the ships to the ntsb training facility. they would use that as they would walk them through no missile would strike a here. it is very questionable. >> [inaudible]
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[inaudible] [inaudible] and. >> one of the parents in pennsylvania whose daughter was killed, there's some french students as the family member he was allowed certain leeway.
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they settled three satellites were malfunctioning that night. clearly that is what he was told. but yet when the cia created animation with the fleet -- with the plane shooting up to claim those infrared sensors but they have never shown any images. >> [inaudible] >> i have talked to a few a angry people. when twa took the fall. why would they do that? they were in the middle of a merger talks with mcdonnell douglas to give them 100% lock on the american airlines' market. in the same week exactly at
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that time the department of justice approved the merger merger, they turndown a merger with office depot and staples which would have given them 6% block on the office supply market. twa afterwards rami 81 to talk. the lot of people think it is the death of the airline. and then they're out of business than they merge with american airlines for the unhappy short .. it is unfortunate.
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>> [inaudible] >> then they took it down to virginia to reconstruct it still networked for a little -- [inaudible]
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[inaudible] >> at the end of the day after four years the spark that set off a the fuel tank is of unknowns origin. we overheating of the fuel tanks sitting on the runway at jfk they sit on the runway in phoenix and cairo. >> [inaudible]
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>> seconds after the whole plane caught fire. >> [inaudible] [inaudible] this been a guy have heard that story several times.
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has anybody read the book nightfall? with the opening chapter? ayer listen to a combat cross-country it is reminiscing video he comes to the same conclusion i did basically but he was involved in research he new-line does the fbi agents every time he saw when he would get the same stone wall. some of the police would be more forthcoming but the fbi was the fuel tank explosion. they got their marching orders. with 20 years and got out with that kind of culture. >>
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[inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible]
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this so if you'll get this with all of the time mitt all of the effort to become a the spi is a the military people. >> ben might question is an all the work it took to do this, why wouldn't they say
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i screwed up? >> here is my best answer on the night of july 17, 1996, they decided to kick the can down the road. once you do that you cannot take it back. then you cover for yourself. so of people that seem to be involved other than a couple of people in the navy, between those six or 10 civilians that really know what happened a share with us, you are right he shares accidentally on 9/11 and writes a book about.
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to oversee the cover-up that did not mention it and leon panetta does not mention it. bill clinton writes the 900 page book, and one paragraph hillary clinton? one-third of a sentence. head of fbi at the time has to sentences the select committee on intent intelligence with everything that is involved does not mention it. it is a conspiracy. that i think the one person of conscience that has suffered the most is the head of the fbi investigation is now as a
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terrorist go to guy. but i know he is tortured and family members have come up to him in his face to say you are lying. he is a public face of this investigation. and what i would recommend it is if you need a south africa style to waive all punishment. and hope the threat this does not happen again. >> in to start off as an electrician subaru shin and
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management but talked-about kicking the can along. we have a terrible burden with its terrible financial burden we are still following the can down the road in to keep something from spee6 loading that does not explode. right now we have entered gap systems dislike reconciliation. to have those resources down the whole. >> but with that fuel tank explosion that would have grounded the 747 and airforce one but that did not happen.
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>> to silicate your tank in all of your wiring. times we found one wire at the time. and that was a conduit. to have that mechanicals. extended that is why at the end of the investigation they concluded an unknown origin. and then we found out that
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the head of the witness team at the time was working with the california 16 months. there were people with the ntsb that were problematic. most people were doing the right thing or trying to. and to allow those to happen . i was just talking to the air-traffic control guy earlier that you are right to mention pensions. because but i will work 38 years as the air traffic controller. suppose you were 10 and
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around government as a great silencer to work for the defense contractors. because their pensions and their freedom with the connections with the government. their resentful of people involved and they are afraid to speak out. >> i do not know about that. i would say that we have not talked about is on the night july 17, 1996, many heard the distinctive paying from of black box the flight data
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recorder. it was only 120 feet of water, it was called other than the bodies of first thing to get picked up. it took them one week to retrieve their putting those stories the recipe damage, it must be buried privacy in the video of the divers finding it it is just like it is in your living room they pick it up. they were innocent. we found it. of course, then revealed nothing and one of the family members could bring in the audio question and the ntsb did not even agree with that.
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there are so many things that were subtracted or defeated or stolen or covered up or destroyed. but the one thing they could not silence for the eyewitnesses as the most critical part of the testimony, they continue to speak out to this day. i will take one more question. >> [inaudible] [inaudible]
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spinet pedagogue me started i paid men with those who spoke with a large twa group in sanders investigative reporter talked to the 747 pilot and what happened is
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an 53 employees were killed on that crash. she was heartbroken. she would go from one memorial service to another she bumps into stacey who says is your husband still an investigative reporter? and she said have him talk to me. stacey and sanders get together the first thing she says is there's a coverup. so they started to collaborate to get information into the mainstream. and he asked him to scrape off the residue. so he puts into an envelope and send it to sanders and as a result of that they are
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counted, arrested, elizabeth and james are tried and convicted in a federal conspiracy to steal airplane parts laugh laugh nobody raises this as a first amendment issue. that is when i said maybe i should get involved. [applause] i appreciate it. pick up some books over there. i will say this, by the way way, if you know, anyone who has information send them to me to talk to me. i appreciated. [inaudible conversations]
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>> i work at temple university now and one of the programs that does something that we found actually works. students need money. if they can get that instead of working than they can take more class's sandwort class and they are less distracted to spend more time on school.
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>> host: good afternoon sara goldrick-rab. >> guest: thanks for having me today. >> host: i love your book paying the price. it is a book that is so chock full of important data . and complex data about the implications of financial aid can being able to graduate college. limit is give you a quotation and the from the book captures the essence. this book is intended to be a wake-up call for students

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