tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN October 18, 2016 12:00am-2:01am EDT
nominee out there really push in this narrative that the system is rigged. that is somewhat disingenuous for someone running for office. who basically went through aof p system where he got 44% of the popular vote all the way through the race and then he's pointing to it being a rigged system. other people that try to many plate the data and hacking? yes, but there is a lot of work put into making sure those things don't happen. i think we need to be concerned for. but is it happening in widespread ways, no indication that it is. number one, a number to the bigger the margin hillary has come of the argument will hold merit. >> host: here is a supporter of donald trump,. >> hello, good morning first i want to say that i don't believe you are republican, i believe
you are part of the left-wing conspiracy the way you like to throw that conspiracy word around. we don't believe these polls. a poll is nothing but a pole. you have to have boats. as you can clearly see, this statement is not there for hillary amongst blacks, hispanics, hillary amongst blacks, hispanics, or millennial's. look at the crowds between donald trump and hillary, there is no excitement with hillary. you can pad these polls anyway you want and turnout anyway you want to try to depress the vote which is what you are trying to do. but the excitement on donald trump is overwhelming. trump i we cannot wait to get out there to put him out over the top. donald trump is going to win. >> guest: you get this all the time. the base that donald trump has touched is a very deep in terms of the feelings that are there. and the animosity and the dislike towards hillary clinton is very deep.up t
if you look at hillary clinton's vote today, one of the major changes we have seen is a shift in hillary's what where she is up to 65% of her voters 70% of her vote, 65% to say that i am voting for hillary clinton versus donald trump. donald trump is only 50% voting for trump and 43% voting against hillary amongst the voters that are voting for tron. one of the things that i smile, i have done this for 42 years, i remember the mondale campaign against ronald reagan. at 150,000 people show up the night before the election for a rally for him and he lost 49 out of the 50 states. i think it's good the trump supporters are intense and support him, unfortunately that is not true of all of the republicans. that are voting for him, many are voting against hillary as opposed to voting for
him, at the end of the day, the rallies are not a sign of what is happening. i think they are going to be surprised and a little bit why trump is playing this card of the rigged system. he wants his voters to believe that somehow it was not his fault that he lost the election. when in fact when you look at how the campaign is happening, i give, give you an example, there is a lot of talk of him going after the main street media has elected to call it. i think think there's some merit there. you also have to look under. i think the main street media promoted him early on without question. i think they were chasing thee ratings as opposed to any political agenda what is there. there may be a little bit more political agenda now and they're saying, oh my goodness what did i do, in terms of promoting trump. the reality is that if you look at the two campaigns,df hillary's campaign has built an
operation where she has hundreds of people that are calling these news outlets every time there is a sliver of information against trump are positive for her. they are out there pushing the story. is not trump doesn't have the same operation in his campaign. i think what you're seeing in some of the coverages not just the bias of the media, but actually the bias that is built-in by not building a strong campaign in order to push your story that's out there and that's one of the weaknesses of trump. >> let's hear from an undecided voter from los angeles california,. >> 20 gentlemen, how are you. >> i would like to take a question for you. i have been here interrupt news channel that a lot of voters are hesitant to publicly support donald trump for one reason or another. these voters do not really go out and talk about the vote, when they get into the polling booth and it's just them in the ballot they're going to vote for donald trump because people are sensitive these states. anything anything he
says gets broken down into tiny little things of what to me. how does your poll account for this voting behavior and do they count within the margin that this kind of thing might happen? >> that's a good question. i would say that the polling more reflects the polling place than publicly going out there for tron. while we have seen through. , wasn't in the survey but when we did a few weeks ago we found that 36% of trump's boat was reluctantly voting for trump. now you can put all kinds of meaning, could is it because of his character, they don't like his character but they're voting against clinton. voting against clinton. or they hesitant because of talk out there.bo hillary was at 29% reluctantly voting for her. so both candidates had about one third of their vote though saying i am reluctantly voting for this person, but it's a because they're put in the quandary of, i don't like my candidate but i also dislike the candidate on the other side. i think that is more what it is
reflective of. a hidden trump boat, perhaps. one of the things that we constantly test our theories of where we are looking at things, as we have increased the number of cell phones in our sample, we are now up to about 40% of our sample is done on cell phones, one of the things we did several years ago is you take a list of cell phone people, they have varying degrees of information, what we found is those that have more information rated at sixant through ten were more likely too answer the phone and stand the phone. the difference between those lists is additional information was not addressed, voting habits, that kind kind of information. it was economic information. did they get on the internet and by, are they on the list in terms of catalogs for example.
while we found only tested this is that yes, in fact there was a higher, not huge, but a higher number of people in the lower end of the cell phone in terms of information that were [inaudible] the economic grid which would make sense when you look at where the vote is coming from. that we were missing, but not including them in the polling. so we have since june. we are including those that are doing the hidden voters. the problem is that the other nuance, they do all phoning in all automated is that they also fall short in terms of seniors. in terms of the cell phone list.
that is the place of all the voters that trump should be getting, quite frankly republicans across the board, we are not doing as well as the selection was seniors. trump specifically is not doing as well as seniors. it's traditionally what a republican would do. we have hillary not doing as well with millennial's, he's not he's not doing as well as seniors, that gets picked up in the calling of the cell phones. >> can i ask a question about another poll, the l.a. tracking poll. it consistently, the other polls show an emphasis for clinton and it seems to show emphasis for donald trump by one or two points. >> guest: they are panel back poll, from a panel. so they are calling the same group of people spread out over time. we stopped using panel backs where we would call someone back in a short period of time. one of the things that happens when you do a poll and you interview someone on the polling is that for a period of time they start watching the race closer. so a panel back could be a leading indicator on where things are going because they're
watching it closer, but because they have used the same 3000 sample, week after week, basically you put them in a position for their polarized x dreams and they're stuck there ever sense. this is a test the universities using, the l.a. times is working with them. what they'll find at the end of the campaign is that almost needs to be set aside as opposed to the other polls. there may be things you find in it but it's a different type poll gets different results and should not be mixed in with the scientific polls that are random going at voters once every so often as opposed all the time. >> colorado a supporter of, this is marie. >> caller: hello. i'm i'm a supporter of hillary clinton. i appreciate this gentleman's expertise in polling. something that i have looked
into as a hillary supporter is her pulling #she was first lady which i found interesting. as she entered as first lady her popularity were very high which is [inaudible], with first ladies until she started getting involved with the universal healthcare. they did the negatives, they skyrocketed at the time and then came a william safire peace and i was a speech writer for richard nixon who coined the liar meme and called her congenital liar and that stuck with her for quite a few years. he never did apologize. and then her polling as senator shot up while she was senator, she was well-liked. when she, when hillary ran for
the presidency in 2008 i believe, went down again and when she handed over the nomination to barack obama they skyrocketed again. so her polls in general, i don't know if this gentleman wants to, talked all about it. they have. they have gone up and down. when she is in office or enters it, enters whether it is for slater or senator she is doing fine. when she campaigns she seems that her polling does seem to drop. >> thank you. >> she is correct. over a period of time of hillary's career, her numbers have gone up and down
it's been periods of time or is been very negative. when she was secretary of state there is a period of time in benghazi that her numbers are very popular, but the reality of this campaign is that as with trump as i mentioned, both of these candidates on the day they got into the race the negatives are over 50 percent. they have remained over 50% for% for the entire course of this campaign. because we have seen strongly a favorable growth for both of these totals 50% of the american public those numbers are so baked and now that it almost doesn't matter the kind of back-and-forth. this weekend, or last weekend when we saw a trump's negatives jump up. her negatives still say that 50 to 53 percent. it wasn't%. it wasn't affecting her numbers at all. what's interesting is that if you look at what drives the negatives, hillary's negatives search of and by the politics of her past. everything from benghazi to the emails into the e-mails to taking liberal positions over the years. there is very strong negative
component against hillary clinton. trump's negatives are driven by his persona. and where he can go to the rallies and get him pumped up and get a great reaction, probably the biggest myth in the campaign about trump is that he has teflon. he has teflon, only because the negatives for hillary are high, not because people look past him for what is there on his negatives. i think part of the problem the campaign struggle with is that when he is the one leading the charge against hillary asrs opposed to putting together campaign structure that others put the charge against hillary it's like the boxer with a glass jaw leading with his chin. he may be able to go out there and stir up the negatives for hillary but at the same time it's driving his negatives higher. that is been one of the questionable things about this campaign and they never figure that part of it out that this entire time while he is getting
rave reviews from crowds, his negatives and the negatives have gone higher and higher this campaign. >> either president and ceo and a republican pollster that is worked in campaigns for 42 years. you're pulling for governors, senators and members of congress. we hear about the possibility of the senate going to the democratic end. seats being lost in the house, what does current polling tell us? >> the house looks to be strong. worst-case scenario were looking in the double digits but nor close the 30 see see the advantage that they have to change. the senate is a very close in and a lot of these races. the three interesting of what is considered tossup states presidentially, georgia is is now the last, arizona, ohio, utah is not yet been put in there. that was driven by just one pole.
iowa, and all for those cases the covenant republican running for reelection is winning by double digits. that is the only state that trump is holding a lead or marginal lead in the state. usually what you have in a race is the presidential race drivess the lower ballot races and there is a concern last week when we saw over the weekend the generic ballot jump a very high but then come back. i don't think it was as intense, but part of what happened last week is the more he attacked the republicans for not supporting him which was getting press attention, the more we saw a separation between the image of the party and the image of trump. so the generic ballots came back naturally to where it is. i think the same is happening as
we watch race races last week. there is an initial pop against it and then it began settling down. it was it was really driven by trump attacking republicans. he allows that separation to be there. we see that same separation on the issues. right now republicans versus democrats are leading by ten points on taxes. only down by five points onointn healthcare, up six points on jobs, eight points on foreign affairs, yet you look at trump, he is down three points on the economy, down 12 points on taxes, down 18 points on healthcare, down four points on jobs, don't jobs, don't 27 points on foreign affairs. the gap shows you the other linkage between the republicano parties and what they stand for. donald trump and the persona of what people are seeing out there. one of the unfortunate things is that we have not had a presidential campaign on both sides that have been talking about these issues. it's more talking about personalities and
flaws been talking about the issues. that has been a detriment to the lower races been able to talk about what they have done on these issues are what they will do on these issues because the oxygen is being sucked out of the air by the presidentialy cln campaigns' p1 let's hear from loretta in ohio. a supporter of clinton. >> host: let's hear from loretta in ohio. a supporter of clinton i believe what ed is saying is true. recently i have noticed thatt republican party, they don't want any equal anything for anybody else.f i find that on tv when they interview some of trump voters, they are voting for trump because of the supreme court. who seem to have made racist decisions such as voting right act. i was wondering how does he fine
the polling on the supreme court, and how does he control the ratio of republican versus democrats and like i call personal polling. you know, you come across more republicans and democrats, how is that handled in your polling survey? >> guest: let me go back to the beginning of where the campaign was and what was missed before any candidates got in the race. as i said we saw for over a decade that the country is off. on the wrong track. when you get the numbers we have been seen between 66 and 70%, that is not driven by republicans or independents or
democrats. it is across the board, maybe visit democratic president it's more by republicans and vice versa. but for the most part it's across the board. what i would say going into this is i like to track middle-class voters. ameri we don't go by economic definition, we go by self perception. we consistently we consistently get 70 or 72% of the american electorate be in middle class. and that's where this could be stirred a little. it was frustration, will frustration more than anything. what i was was hearing from the middle classes that they were frustrated with the system, but
angry at both ends of the equation. they were met at the rich because the rich got the special deals and they got richer, they were mad at the port to some extent. not that they're willing to help with the poor, but they were mad at the poor because they get all of the programs. all they were seen is that they get an ever increasingly larger bill for an increasingly ineffective government. that was the core going into the campaign.m it has been distorted by both the presidential campaigns. basically they felt they were for the economy was going to decline again before they recovered from the last recession. they felt that terrorism was going to come not only to our shores but to their doorstep. fh they have seen examples of that continue during the election. most and partly they felt the american dream was getting further and further from the reach. the american dream not that they would do well, but their children would do better, economically and economically and safety wise and all these components. that was the core going into the campaign that i think has been twisted by the two campaigns.
as opposed to getting away from the core message. one of of the problems i have seen in washington is sometimes we don't look at core, basic problem-solving. you talk about the problem, you talk about solutions, you implement solutions, you implement solutions, and that creates a new set of problems. what we deal with in campaigns is going through the cycle so many times and it's what were dealing with right now with obama care. we are now dealing with problems created by our solutions are not the root problem. that's. that's where frustration comes in the american public. not that they don't to anything. they don't think ahead about what are the problems created by the solutions and were still talking about the same problem. >> host: you shape that up in a question you ask the folks if their countries on the right track a wrong track. is that part of the value in asking that? >> guest: one of the things weis ask is coming up in all thes
surveys, the most important problem to deal with, i know trump says he wants to run this as a change election because he thinks that group is saying they don't like the direction of the country. but they are not. it comes up as the number three response of most important problem behind terrorism and thw economy. those voters who mention dysfunction in government he is losing to hillary clinton by ten points.not 43 - 33. there are many voters not put in for either one of them in that category. but he's not winning the war on taking care of dysfunction government. quite frankly, i felt the whole time, and breaking this windowed as the first candidate that would truly say here thei m policies i will drive that will make america great again, perhaps. but. but more importantly, bring the economy to an economy and bring
terrorism to a safer point in terms of our doorstep, most importantly how to bring the american dream within reach to the middle class. neither candidate is making a good move on that. >> host: a supportive donalddo trump from texas. good >> caller: good morning.. good morning from texas. my question was going to bee about all of these polls, do they really level out to the point of hillary's 47% 7% ahead, is she going to win the presidency, i just i always stagger with that. my biggest problem and i was going to ask ed, would you like to run for president? you have some good ideas. >> that was going to be my comment but i think all politicians, a shell show that before they enter office theyto.
should take a lie detector test and a drug test. if they they fail one we don't want them. haat would be my comment. >> guest: i always laugh when i hear them say something like they need to take a drug test or lie detector test where as trump suggested before the next debate a drug test. again, you look at, this is an argument that has been argued to a draw. on who is honest and trustworthy. we asked that question not in terms of who got the highest percentage of that, but trump versus hillary who do you think is more honest and trustworthy. again, trump comes up short on that. you have to say this is pulling in the wake of the "access hollywood" tape. but he is five points down versus hillary in terms of who is more honest and trustworthy.
thanks somebody who works in campaigns, one thing i've always been concerned about trump that worked in the primaries, of labeling his opponent different things. that wa sometimes you have to wonder she tried to label his opponent before he gets labeled that way. as he starts labeling hillary is one thing or another, is he signaling to their campaign, this is what i think they believe, is a signaling signaling to their campaign, this is something he has a leada on because i'm going to label you before you label me. hopefully that will not happen.n as far as my interest in running in politics, i have never had that, i've always always felt my strength is helping those candidates ring their strength to the surface. unfortunately this has been a campaign that has not been built on strengths but on their weaknesses. that's unfortunate for the american public.
something i keep hearing and focus groups is how did we end up with these two nominees. i'm very concerned, especially as we have a race to the bottom between these two, very concerned the american public is going to end up in this campaign feeling very unsatisfied with the debate and being that much more frustrated about the system. i think that's unfortunate forun the system. it's unfortunate for democracy, i hope is something we can recover from and future. >> host: show in south carolina, a supporter of third parties. thank you for calling. >> caller: thank you. i want to thank you for having c-span on everyday. it's a nice show, beautiful for everybody to comment on. and the caller seems like a very decent person. a first of all, i think it started
in when republicans took the house, that's when it all started and it just did not start from there. they didn't do nothing for this country is for as i'm concerned. another thing, my sister is a republican. i heard her call earlier and she is a teacher and she votes republican all the time and she votes for trump this year. i think that is who she is. i have one of their comment.bamk when bush left office and president obama took office, the credit card did not stop. it just kept on going and going for another $4 trillion. you can't blame the doubling of
the deficit on president obama. so thank you and i appreciateak you taking my comments. >> guest: actually the national debt has increased by 8 trillion. it is the debt that has double during this period of time. i think that's unfortunate because i think this is where you get very antsy over how doep we fix things when we're basically on a path that our debt is deeper and deeper. what people don't understand is the choices we have on the other end of the equation, plenty of military, funding of socialeezee security and medicare, education system, all of all of those are being squeezed down because of the debt. you can get into arguments over spending. in terms of of where the campaign of the country isrm in terms of republicans and what happened or didn't happen, i have tried this before. watched
in reality if you watch what is happening out there when we around elected the republican congress was slow the obama agenda. when we elected a a republican senate in 2014 we basically stopped the obama agenda. to the point of that is why he started doing executive orders, because he tried to -- i think we do need a discussion in the future. i think one of the most, and i think probably the majority leader would agree with me is with a variety of other senators, one thing that is hurting our system today is the 60 vote rule in terms of the senate. . . . i would much rather see a e open debate a 50 votes -- i would rather see a wide open debate a 50 votes and get into a real discussion about where we are going. if you look at the ideas of the
republicans' values, it is in line with the middle class. we could be in a very good position with the american public and the frustration level would come down a little bit in terms of not doing anything. at the end of the the i grew up in a democratic family and i changed parties back in college.is. let's make america great again. it was inspirational, all-inclusive and allowed too
build a party over the ronald reagan years as opposed to what we are seeing today in a very polarized support. donald trump is in chicago. i know this is going to shock a lot of people that he's even better than ronald reagan because he granted amnesty and gave lousy trade deals. it's about immigration and out of control and complete nonsense
and we see hillary talking behind doors about the open borders in the end. i think when you explain what the problem is allowing over almost 2 million illegal worke workers. donald trump is the only person that has come out about thisro from the get-go. listing jeff sessions on this issue and then the trade deals. >> host: okay. just let you know on the polling with a recent poll tracks illegal immigration and not tracking as high as the othersmi
but go ahead. both sides have been complacent and seems like we've come out with a solution and then all of a sudden one start calling names and falls apart. the reality is two things. one, the immigration system is broken on the premise behind the system, and add some point trump finally addressed it later incai the campaign that 40% of the people had come to the country and overstayed. it's not just about securing the border is about enforcing the law that we have and i think that he's finally ended up in that place but it's about securing our border.
and i think the enforcement thing is this is when we can drive me because of security, not just because of what's happening with illegals coming in but the bottom line i kind of look at it that there are four parts if you will on immigration. there's the border and security, there's the broken immigration system, there's the illegals that are here today, and then there's what i call the collateral issue, the one i feel the worst for of all the politicians are the governors that are having to deal with ths fact they haven't occurred in the border systems and they deal with what i call collateral issue is that quite frankly if the system was broken those would go away, but unfortunately those issues are the ones that end up being talked about on the campaign and the only way to make those go away is to fix the system. when i say the system is broken,
today if you look at the system, several candidates tried to get out on the issue and if you look at the immigration system, 83% of all of god immigrants that come into the country come in because of family connections. we need to change the immigration system that bringsun people to meet the economicc needs and then you will have people on the side where they climb over the wall and on until we address the basic problem on the system, the priorities are put in the wrong place that causes the priority is to squeeze out and we are not going to fix the system and we can't deal with the election or 12 million until we know that the system is fixed then we can figure out what we are going too be with the 11 or 12. any reasonable person, they will
see this as the way we have to step-by-step fix the system but it's going to take a real commitment and if we don't do it soon, you're going to see this out there with a lot of anger, because it is very easy to point to their progrowth economy at these other people that are responsible for it when it's ouc economic policy that has driven them.ja >> host: how are you guys doing. i wanted to ask him do you believe that mr. trump created himself because as i watch then news media and listen to experts that come onto the shows, the democratic and republican party
created donald trump. when you go back in history and look at the democrats and republicans, they created him and the other thing is donald trump may be on quicksand but democrats are on the stand, so he may sink at the democratic party is because the media is biased when it comes to both of the candidates. >> we have to leave it there. the fact of the matter is it's the responsibility of the campaign as i was trying to point out earlier.
again, the numbers for both these candidates in terms of the ballots that they go through periods of time at the top of wo the window. the numbers haven't changed for the last year and that serves as the anchor that quite frankly the best thing going for hillary clinton right now is donald trump. the best thing going is hillary clinton because when they do hit a bad spot with india of the other candidates to play to that group. with the campaign 2016, thanks for your time
when i was trying to come up with my documentary for student pam, i was a little daunted because there were so many different elements i was trying to put into it and get a lot of information to communicate but then i took a step back and realize that it is a visual essay and it was something that became left when i looked at it from that perspective of gathering information and filming it. i would tell anybody to reach out to as many people as they could to get a lot of interviews and as many% it's as you can because there are experts out there that are so much more
knowledgeable about the subject than you are, and as many of those people you can get, the more credibility your piece is going to have and it's not just going to be a high school student trying to solve this problem that turns into your contributing information by piling on all these different perspectives. your message to washington, d.c. tell us what is the most urgent issue for the president and congress to address. our competition is open to all of the middle school and high school students grades six through 12 with $100,000 awarded in cash prizes. students can work alone or in a group of up to three for five to seven minute documentary is on thdocumentaries onthe issues ses the programming and posing opinions. we will go to the student 14.
at this year's deadline is january 20. mark your calendars and help us spread the word to the filmmakers. for more information go to the website, student pam.org from washington journal, this is 40 minutes. with peter hart, democratic pollster and strategist and founder of the research associates. "the wall street journal" taking a look at what's going on between the two candidates into the difference between them. what do the numbers tell you at this stage? >> guest: they would wantvery that. what was shown was on the
battleground poll and its 47 to 37. he had 47 to 39. what it tells you is the race is opened up in part because of donald trump's negatives continuing to rise. he's never had a better than 30. of the public give them a positive feeling and he's never been below 50% at this stage of the game he's over 60% negativer >> postcodes pbs guest talked about the negatives on both sides. >> guest: 40% of the american public has a point about hillary clinton and about 50% have negative. this is the first time we have been doing the poll for now since 1992, and this is the first time we've seen both candidates with a majority.
really do we even see any candidate go over 50%. so, it underscores what this election is all about.re if you go a step further in the polling, essentially what you see is on the issue of competence and temperament, f hillary clinton is perceived as far stronger than donald trump. on the question of the integrity, these are scorers while but at this stage donald trump has a four-point advantage.o >> does it take into account the voters that have already come and made a decision and what do you think in far of those. numbers? >> guest: we look at all parts of the electorate and we look at people if they've already cast a vote, so we've got that. but, what if really comes down s to is there's a lot of doubt at
this stage of the game and i think there is what i call the gestation period about hillary clinton. >> host: if you want to ask questions (202)747-8001 if you support trump, hillary clinton 747-8000, third party, 800 to td if you are undecided, (202)747-8003. you probably get these questions a lot about what defense would you get right off the bat? >> guest: the simple point is we do a random probability sampling using both cellphone numbers and that is 45% of all of the interviews that are done people who only have cell phone telephones and every voter has a chance of being involved.
we've done this now for 26, 27w years and doing pretty well now because the participation rates are way down from where they were. people don't look and say i amby about to be interviewed by a pollster. it's the reverse when you are on "the wall street journal" people say it must be lester holt on the other end so they are more likely to participate. >> host: are they different people every time you take thehl polls? >> guest: every time we select different people we never go back and interviewe interview te person twice or three timess because then click meet thebe press and they become a paneli panelist.egree of >> host: there's a 4% difference. what do you think about that and how it compares?
>> guest: i know they are taught professionals and they ie nothing but the highest regard. we do a lot of polling and we look at the public opinion strategies of the pollster and from all of our work we are seeing the same thing. there are margins of error and overall it's wider rather than closer. >> host: what is your accuracy level and how do you determine that? >> guest: is a mathematical formula based on the number of interviews that are done in the margin of error is about plus or minus 3.3% which means if we
interview every american that ie going to those we would come within 3% of that.guest: post is that the magic number when it comes to polling?e >> guest: it has to be largese enough to cover all segments of the population. we have been using the thousand people in the poll for almost two decades. so it is a good number andur allows us to look at minorities into various age groups and that becomes the important part. not just the total. >> host: the first call comes from michigan, supporter of donald trump. you are on. good morning. >> host: >> guest: >> caller: thanks for takingighw my call. to this gentleman right now it's funny nbc is usually wrong on any of the polls.
i remember back in the summer they had a poll of hillary winning by 16% and then there do others were down to four and three. but nbc those are supposed to be really biased. i would like to know how many republicans they called and how many democrats. if the gentle man could answer that for me, i would really appreciate it. you can't trust the media anymore. cnn, nbc especially. i tell you what we do this intervieisinterview a cross-secf americans and indeed what we tend to show is over the course
of the last year and a half the democrats have a plus sixthe advantage with about 20% of the american publi public in the coy and again, we use the seven-point scale, so we take people that are strong democrats, moderate democrats, democrats, independents, and then the strong moderate republicans and the republican independents. so we look at that cross section and again everyone may be slightly different but if you look at abc and at the "washington postthe "washingtons poll, they are all about the same in terms of the party identification. our job is not to care about the network and what they care about or don't care about. our job is to get an accuratebl
reflection of the americandoes public and the final judgment will be those that reflect what the voting day is. if we are wrong it's fair for everybody to see that we have been doing this for a long timec >> host: florida, an undecided voter. good morning. >> caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i'm not much into the percentages but i'm sad that both parties have succeeded in dividing his lead the people. it is a frightening thing because both sides are making promises everything is a culture and it's very confusing and it just very frustrating to see us turn against each other. we are imploding and shameful in front of the rest of the world.
on a really think that bothttinh sides are forgetting the otherut people. it's about us, not about the political party. >> host: thank you, susan. >> guest: i think this is about the public and it is the inability to talk to the public. what we have seen from the beginning to the end is the american public is trying to make a statement, and it's a statement that we are unhappy with the system and what's happening in the power elite of new york and basically what we want to see this change. i said all along i thought in the republican primary they represented two sides of thethe same coin and that was how do we change the system and essentially i think that's what
the voters are crying out for in this election.ll susan is an undecided voter and will be tremendously important in the final results but what we hear and see is a tremendous sense of frustration of what's p going on and of th the americanc looks at it in terms of donald trump lashing out at each and every part of the system or the voters trying to say how they makdo wemake a change to publice understands? they look at so many thingswh whether it is what's happeningng at wells fargo bank or the sb ten. each of these things to say where is my voice and is fighting for the pc i think that's what the voters are trying to figure out so bravo. >> host: how much is swayed by not only the release of that tape but the debate? >> guest: essentially what we
find is about one third of the american public saying thehe debate was important. they were more likely to see hillary clinton as better or being moved in that direction. i think that it was 1% that said donald trump said it was an advantage. most people come in with a pretty firm view and they watch to learn things for entertainment and any number of elements. you have most people that have made up their minds this isn't an open election. >> john from fairfax virginia and yoyou are on with peter har. >> caller: to the caller from michigan, this call isn't about
that, it's about i want to ask him if we say that 90%, 85% vote for hillary. who said that the right thing i don't get the numbers. [inaudible] >> guest: it is a good question and it's always hard to understand. each group makes up a different portion so when you see the minorities, nonwhites that isfra latinos, asians, african-americans voting overwhelmingly for hillaryelminy clinton, that will be somewhere
in the neighborhood of the 27 to 30-35% and that is a huge base and he was advantage. wil but they will be voting more for donald trump and that is what makes this closer and more competitive and the strength of the donald trump vote tends to be blue-collar, white and older but indeed when you put it all together, whether it is the polls that you see for myself what the "washington post" ine r all cases we see hillary clinton as an advantage but the thing i always like to remind voters is like what yogi berra said it ain't over till it's over, so recognize we still have 20 pluso to go into there always seems to be a new event. everything donald trump has been doing over the past two weeksvo
certainly costs him votes. >> host: one of them featured a head to head matchup and 40% supporting donald trump. >> guest: that's right. it's always a question of the makeup of the electorate. we never know who is going to vote. we try to guess that as best we can at this stage again, it's about a ten-point advantage. >> host: what's a factor for those that support gary johnson or another third-party candidate and does that matter as far as the candidates come out? >> guest: we measure the ballot that includes the places where she's on the ballot in the states and any others we don't include her and the same with gary johnson and the libertarian party and what we are shoving at this stage in the game it's
about 7% &-and-sign it's about 2%. if thaof that number starts to e that means donald trump probably doesn't need to give birth in 25 or 33% but if that number stays down, then donald trump has to be able to get closer to 50%. st. petersburg florida, good morning you are next. >> caller: i have three comments i will try to make them fast. first is a quote, in america what we call a liberal or a conservative and america would be called conservative word in europe be called a fascist. that is one of the most insightful comments ever made about politics. the second comment i'm going to make is the majority of the voting age population in america
either doesn't register to vote or doesn't vote, and to me that is the most significant factor because it means that the chunk that float for democrats are divided up as the minority of the voting age population so you end up with a big majority of the vote. my third comment is this. i think the current situation is one in which two of the most dangerous people who've ever been nominated are now going to be one of them is good to bebe president.me of i think donald trump reminds me of hitler and hillary clinton could very well get us into the inner nuclear war with russia. >> guest: let me talk to the second comment which is voting and nonvoting, something i studied since the mid-70s and
what i would tell you is we do have a majority of americans that vote and it goes down to about 40% so the point is right how do you get more to participate, what do you need to do to open up the system and p make people feel invested in the system i think that's important and i would say that's one of the major challenges facing democracy. .. they look at both candidates as this caller did, in a negative way. more importantly than voting is how do you get a nation together at that this election is over? it has been so by tuberous and so negative, the question is, how does either candidate get the congressional delegations from both parties to recognize that we need to get together.
we need to start dealing with the major problems. number three, for the health and wellness of the country, to be able to come together. i worry about that tremendously. a way to get as many people into the process because that is what makes democracy stronger. i have been listening all morning and i am a retired teacher so i am leaning towards hillary because of her involvement with children and i the pollster and thank him for his work and ask them how soon after this debate will we know the results of the polling? thank you dorothy and congratulations for a lifetime of service to the young people of america and arkansas. we will know what we call instant polls right after.
>> our economy has improved, all things, excuse me, these hings are recorded out there, all people have to do is inform themselves, go online and find don't deal in all of this fictitious information both omes out, to candidates. hillary is the one with the doing who is capable of who is going to be able job to keep the country moving forward. personality thing is -- thank you very much.
people information have, found in a lot of the polling is that if you are a or conservative, you can get your information from fox news. a democrat or liberal, you're more likely to listen to msn ms msnbc. to a certainly extent people with the same e idlogical beliefs. have perception and attitudes. if you have been in the business you have for over 50 years, believe in the voters. i think they get it right in presidential elections and they may not have all the facts think the nd, but i most personal vote that people make. it comes from the gut, more than necessarily weighing different factors. i trust this person. this person is going to be able to be competent and get
this person i feel understands me. all those thing come in. and so, if you're in the and you do as much polling as i do, you believe in voters. peter hart you recently did a poll looking at millennial voters and young people. are we finding about the election? >> this was done for the association and i've been with them and their activities since 2000, so i've over the course of four different presidential elections. out is young people election and is care about this election, but it is other side, they also have same amount of skepticism, not maybe as their adults about about politics and about what is happening, these eople look at the system, they look at the congress, right across the street from us, and
have a lot of confidence, more confidence than he adults, but the same skepticism is certainly briefed in and this is the poll that we online that was done during the spring. it is true in terms of how they this election and they are worried about the their out of once they get high school, we interviewed some is thehool graduates, it world ahead. host: was there the same level of enthusiasm amongst the people as seen with barack obama and met?campaigns for guest: no, that is not the case, certainly not the case in terms as a whole: rate
compared to early elections, it is not, if there is a challenge facing hillary clinton, it is with the african american vote, younger voters and hispanic voters because all three groups, we find interest and attention 2008 and in most cases 2012. >> why do you think that is? >> i think frankly because elections, it barack obama was a charasmatic figure who talked so well to each of the groups. he talked to the next generation and to minorities. i think because this campaign negative and so get , it is hard to inspired. people in the spring, it was bernie sanders, he had a short message, simple message and essentially wouldn't talk about that concerned the young people. how do i change the system? how do i get ahead in terms of
education? has done a ton better job of getting to those positions. i think the residents in terms of her personality and her demeanor does not just reach quite as roups strongly. donald trump,r of hi. caller: good morning and thank call.or taking my for donald trump early voting and i did because i think administration, i'm i'm very ld and concerned about our nation and going to be ahead for my and my great grandchildren. call you for letting me in. guest: congratulations, 85 years
old, i'm glad that you continue to be involved. twoed, what you talk about, things i hear often. one, as mentioned in the earlier consistentlyhave a for about 15 years, somewhere in 60% or more hood of saying the country is in the wrong direction and this has negative down spin for america for a long period of time. secondly feel their ople children will not be better off. at the majority of this. talk about the trump campaign. honest, his message at the beginning had great resonance was similar to bernie sanders. off into this you nal food fight, what
find is he's sort of left his gotten away from it. it is a concern. going we get the country again? how do we move things and the ountry very much unhappy and body our future and has a lot to do with our children, our grandchildren and bread and butter issues. eric, supporter of hillary clinton in compton, california. caller: good morning. thank you for giving me this opportunity.
like that in rk america. guest: certainly. nybody who believes in democracy understands the udicial powers and the congressional role and ortunately i think that this campaign has veered very very much veered individualsstion of and presidential elections have that. but, it is obviously a much and vibrant system and we will come out of this as we always have. some questions asked from the poll about being honest and also asked ard, about having american interest
on trade, dealing with the changing country for the better. the numbers are there. people are hat saying and responding to topics with the dannedidate. it tells you, it has to do with republican and democratic points of view. republicans and donald trump of the ahead in most foreign policy issues that have to do with temperament and has with experience, hillary clinton is ahead on that. democrats tend to do better in terms ofhealthcare, in issues that concern women, those aren't necessarily surprising, again, i think this campaign is being decided less on the terms ofd much more in the personality. michigan, bryan, scott, third-party supporter. next. you are caller: yeah, good morning.
george h.w. bush, in a radio announcement says america eeds to understand there will be a new world order. i thought he was talking about fast-forward and i believe obama is calling it the is al integration, which mainly what we're talking about, o go to the extreme as open borders. of isn't america more aware what both sides of the isle of talking about and even confuse more when you say immigration? haven't had an honest conversation of the path that we're actually on over the past few decades and what we're
looking to do, it looks like as we in the global integration is basically in the end sometime in the future we're really not going to have borders, are we, sir? will we have borders? this is a conversation that be had. i think if you did the polling, which is your an honest conversation of the path that we're actually on over the past few decades and what we're bailiwick, if you have americans right now, would concept, open border i think overwhelmingly the no.wer would be guest: interesting on immigration and we have asked a nbc f questions on the "wall street journal" poll and american public is in favor of immigration, what they aren't in favor of is exactly what the caller said, not in favor of borders, but do they want to have y way immigration? strength of the country, it is our founding principles, and so is very much there, which go-to is probably the bigger lot ion, we don't get to a of issues we need to that are exceptionally important. is a critical and important issue and one that is scant rely gotten attention in this election.
immigration has been discussed, the american ge, public doesn't agree with donald trump in terms of building a don't believe it will happen. host: that is our top issue for that you poll? guest: what i call it is fear election, it is scare election, national ecurity and security o. economic security, it is jobs and below jobs, it is really the ability to plan for the future, the ability to feel paycheck're less than a away from destitute and people way. that nd on issues that i call military security, we're very concerned about isis, very oncerned about our role in how of world affairs and of security in
terms of the middle east, those are the things driving this election, but it is the economy first and foremost and if i were in donald trump's camp, i would tell you that it amazes me and me that hasn't been his one single message throughout the poll. had the lead on that issue, even when his campaign is not doing well, he's ahead by a point or two when the american public says who is best on the economy. host: peggy from ohio. thanks for waiting. you're a supporter of donald trump. you are on with peter hart. morning. caller: hi. i was wanting to tell you about, been to two donald trump rallies, one in mason, ohio and cincinnati, ohio. and you know, donald trump they do not answer polls, especially nbc polls. i work in a grocery store in wouldn't o, and you believe the customers that are donald trump supporters. i'd say out of 10 people that through the line, eight are
donald trump supporters there is majority going on and post pollsters don't recognize this about people. when you go to a donald trump say it is try to old, white people. go to a donald trump rally and i took my grandson to one, he's 11 years old, and they 10 to 80 years old. you see all kinds of them, you you lack, you see white, see hispanic and i've never rowdiness at any donald trump rally that i've you to and i just want know that if you think that all supporters are answering your polls, you are badly mistaken because i know a absolutely won't answer polls because they do they're crooked, just like this man from -- host: okay. thank you. mr. hart? guest: peggy, thank you.
and congratulations, i'm glad rally, because again participation and bringing your to dren or grandchildren rallies are equally important. ll i can tell you is that serious effort a people to answer the polls and everything that we've seen is we get participation on both sides. but go to the question you were talking about, i continuing is an important one. were concerned about the same thing. just this poll we completed, we said, do you have people ly, friends or who work with or have expressed concerns about for g who they support president because they worry for president because they worry what others might think? and what we found is 40% of americans said, yes, i think --
i know such a person. said, yes, if they were hillary clinton, 13% said, donald trump and some said both clinton and trump and others they are n't know who supporting. so indeed, we worry about this, true opinions, where people are es, coming from? we find out, yes, there are hidden vote and we'll look for that, but indeed, we think we get a cross-section of america. host: discount this idea of large rallies and playing it out to voter participation. do you see those connections? i think to be perfectly honest, large rallies ell you something about the enthusiasm. as peggy just showed us in ohio, people are there and care desperately and are deeply but indeed, whether it is 25,000 or 8000. very small segment of
americans and we know donald a vigorous group of people who are behind him and polls.ll be at the host: last call for the guest, third-party supporter. this is john. john, good morning. want to address what i just said, which is not why i called. said, she voted for ted cruz because she didn't want to her hand for donald trump. she didn't want to be seen to do that. guest: yep. what i wanted to address, people talk about record.track you can either have no track record or you could have a bad as former vet nd and combat situation, i can tell i do not want a war hawk like hillary clinton, where has been more isolationist. hands jill stein voter, down. i was a bernie sanders supporter. when i look at how they will
ppa, and have that lead o a revised version of tpp, which i'm certain hillary will support, i'm sorry, you look at track records of the woman minorities thugs. i can't vote for either of them. i voted for hillary, jill stein will make me proud to vote for. voted for hillary, i can't trump, u, if i voted for i would want to throw up. host: okay, that is what we're this election. guest: there is a portion of the can't ate who say, i support either clinton or trump and looking desperately for most people are saying the race comes down to be the next o will president and prefer to participate in that way. polls ow many more between now and election date?
me will see which of these two candidates will dump one bond dash covered or get over the next four years. thanks for joining us. [applause] before we begin dr. budd pierce small business owner every veteran and dr. his father died when he was 15 and be paid back ph.d. treated over 15,000 patients with blood disease or cancer . as president of the oregon medical association he negotiated historical reform legislation and now was to serve right taking his leadership available to salem to help state government work better. governor brown dedicated her career from her work as a child advocate as a juvenile and family law attorney secretary of state and now
governor is proud to focus on the issues that matter most since becoming governor she says guaranteed paid sicklied improved funding by a 9 percent and makes voting easier than ever. >> we have free panelists asking questions. we're also joined by a a studio audience they will hold their applause until the end of the debate when the panels began asking questions as determined to earlier governor brown will take the first question that they will take turns from that point john. after in the first dancer question they cannot have
the chance for a rebuttal if they answer a question later they can readdress the topic in their 60s seconds at the conclusion each candidate will be given the 62nd closing statement governor brown will be going first and now she will begin with the first question. >> ballot measure number 97 controversial tax measure you have endorsed this measure and you are urging voters to reject it please advise for those reasons. >> i and delighted to be back here tonight and taking time editor busy schedule. i am supporting the measure because or again needs stable revenue for key basic services like schools and making sure hundreds of thousands of oregonians have
access to health care and seniors. i will tell you that every business person i have talked to agrees that we need additional revenue on the table about division 97 provides that and corporations that are out of state the to pay their fair share do you think the school year is long enough? to do you think that our class sizes are small enough i don't. do think it is okay to kick off oregonians of the health plan i don't it is vitally important we give the seniors with the assistance that they need to stay in their own homes. pierce: thanks for allowing me to participate this measure will cost 38,000 private-sector jobs in the average toward guy and family of the cost of living those make that ballot
measure unacceptable it will also increase government spending by 40 percent with $6 billion this with the governor once and $2 billion more like creative budget that takes that & end fund schools that a better level. so the government needs to live within its means. henry will my sacrifice the private sector jobs or the cost of living. >> moderator: what will you do to ensure the low level is used as promised? of the measure does not pass what will you do to assure that he is services encircles receive adequate
funding? pierce: i did work with anti-communist we know that the budget is adequate to address the needs of school funding in taking care of needs including that match on the medicaid expansion program. but it is clear that they're interested in not have them pay that much more per year it is clear that they are affected disproportionately. and i believe the heart and spirit but we will have to minimize of a damage and the major damage it is cost of living with private sector jobs and in disproportional they give a fax:dash dash affects. >> moderator: i will make
sure that my bed to reflects the of wishes the oregonians especially early childhood education. we do think our class sizes and lengthening the school year to make sure that they have access to the key programs they need to stay in their own homes and over the last couple of years to give 300,000 oregonians on the health plan to feel very strongly that to work with the legislature to enter the ball is in the core it and they have these ballot measures like this past to reflect the will of the voters. >> moderator: it is the
pleasure to see you here in southern oregon tonight. another looming issue facing did governor l. legislature in january is the public employee retirement system facing $22 billion deficit can you give specific recommendations on how to fix it before it goes bankrupt our schools and counties and cities? >> yes. >> following the decision of the supreme court said that we must keep our promises and all of us would agree we must keep those promises. i task my legal team to review the statutes to talk with lawyers humble sides of the aisle to see if there were proposals to meet that criteria.
to resolve the incident began financial savings areas no clear path that is why i am looking to make sure they have what they need to overseas investments to maximize return on investment and stabilize the system they have a number of proposals then i hear a lawsuit like the hamster wheel litigation. pierce: has spent in number of reforms that have passed muster to pass judicial review i do believe the criticism is not supported but in terms of what we were told is the payments for those for the final calculation for the base pay like the of money match
formula as it changes into a cash flow to charge those market rates look that vacation pay and sick pay into this final calculations and in the average state in the union 70% is due to the employer and we need to move toward the payment in the current system. >> boaters have turndown increases several times now they handle many of the cases if elected what specifically will you do to keep them safe? to make this leads to of breakdown so the number one answer i am interested to
have the ability to of that maximum value to go a long way. we need stimulation of the economy and other measures such as tax credits. once they make enough money they're willing to pay for their services i would be committed to legislatively ensure those basic services are maintained there would be a negotiation about that. >> it fails to reflect reality that oregon has an increasing population and decrease in federal dollars. my budget will accurately reflect the dollars that we face. in terms of law enforcement
if they had twice as many state troopers as in college they now have half the number i find that unacceptable be coz i feel they are key to provide public safety in our community to route the state of war again. so i will fight to make sure that we have additional troopers on the front line to make sure they can be safe when. >> moderator: there are 10 other counties that will soon the state at 1.$4 billion. it has placed conservation goals ahead on the state managed timberlands so what your thoughts pending litigation? brown: we're striking i balance and we have seen
this with of work of the common school find properties we were working to increase harvest to make sure to before basic expenses and put them back to work and pay for schools but we struggle to do that because of environmental lawsuits. we are working hard to maintain a balance to protect our forests for future generations as well as generating adequate dollars to make sure we have dollars point back to the county spent the governor's aides to produce the budget so that would be the first challenge. if we look it is interesting to note going to the common school fund and another interesting thing we don't
take the maximum bid but if i am selling a house verses to under $50 a somebody gives me five and a thousand dollars would take did. i would move to did aggressive negotiations with to bring and the environmentalist to look for common ground. we protect the force that is critical to oregonians. >> moderator: switching gears the next question is human trafficking is not just a big city crime but continues to grow primarily young men and women are the targets matter proposed to remedy the situation quick. >> these people are abused.
we need to have aggressive law-enforcement action and to identify the problems of those being abused. in to reach out with prevention. to be full verbal to sex trafficking and abuse. and to call out to be identified with the help that they need. in be no longer suffer the indignity. >> i worked on the legislation to create a task force it is a huge problem
pet over 1 million girls have been impacted. to invest in a safety net. to be sure that we have adequate shelters available. so it is absolutely critical the state play a role. it then afford to working with oregonians to make sure we keep our young men and women save. >> between the ages of five and 11 face suicide as a
major concern in their school berger your reaction? brown: did this clear that our children are facing trauma. that in oregon public schools 20,000 children are homeless during the school year. that is absolutely deplorable. also challenging that we don't have that equipment to health and a nurse providers in each of the schools across the state of oregon. and to take strides in one of the keep the earnings we're doing is comprehensive early childhood education system even mental health care. to help identify early the children to get them the resources and the treatment
that they need. and tackle the challenging problem. >> and this is happening with the issue of mental health with the economic background. but certainly the pressures of homelessness and with those issues on the family and how we look at how we have it when they are in distress speetwo work with the actively to get people on the road of dignity with
alive. but that is key to give that confidence to get out of of their hiding place and that will lead to a great new confidence. brown: i will continue to reach out to all communities of oregon. as both the governor and secretary of state. as chair of the sustainability board that the fabulous cheese factory that we could go there as low as next door and continue to fight to make
sure organize a place and i will do that on a regular basis. >> moderator: would you commit to do an annual town hall meeting? brown: from above to make that commitment but as serving the governor as last two years that a challenge comes up. for example, when the horrible tragedy at uc pc with the shooting community college happened i was down at the campus with a handful of hours working to console the community and provide support for the families that was imperative that that point of time to lighting those resources for that community. that is exactly what i did.
to make sure they have the financial resources to go to community college. >> moderator: >> plans to increase the refugees. and what precautions should be taken? brown: yes we should. america, a land of immigrants. and to seeing horrific tragedy is. with those refugee camps and to go through the two-year vetting process. i am confident of the faces of the parents that we
should welcome them. >> >> and to come from the land of great places for those that are suffering that part worries me greatly. that is where i put my resources that is the great way to go but at the end of the day to say we are refugees and we will make them feel welcome to do all that we can and will be that that but i am concerned greatly about what is before to our veterans mental illness and homeless people
with all the social discord that we have. >> moderator. i'm exposed to many teenagers to think it is cool but not unhealthy to smoke pot. easier access because it is no legal to purchase. what about those negative consequences crooks. pierce: we are observing more we really don't know for medical use even though i have signed medical marijuana cards for patients for cancer treatment. then i have those that use it but agreed on any information but at this time. and what to do with an
experiment. based on how much they ascertain then to have the best public health campaign against minors and we need to have a brisk public health campaign about the use and the effects. set one negative society wants it available of it is m putt -- and we need to protect children. >> and to educate to make sure they are not using marijuana but when i was in high-school those that drove and did not use seatbelts but would drive while treaty and mothers against drunk drivers change the conversation about acceptability of driving in drinking.
so we the a social effort from our educational centers to make sure that minders are not using marijuana in a way that is not safe. >> >> it is absolutely unacceptable to have won the four students this is a very personal issue my stepson dropped out of high-school and we were fortunate as a family to have the tools and resources to make sure he got his cgt. that is why our new education innovation officer to work with schools and school districts to come up with a strategic plan.
to make sure they have the tools that they need that every child completes high-school with a plan for the future purpose second to create that seamless system of education that we will ensure that early childhood education will have them ready to learn. >> it is the target for all school children talking to the superintendent's to find that very early age that is it is key. and second to have that pathway for the university preparations because that harms them greatly so we are on course to support measure
98 to put it toward programs that have been very successful to have some children to have vigorous dropout prevention programs since they are not attending class to get them on the right track. and to be there is critical and that they have a chance to graduate. >> small business is vital what could you do to support organ small business? >> we need to be very aggressive they get property tax abatement i am very interested when they start a new business with the tax credits on any herndon, but
i want that extra incentive to have a plan in place for the partial loan guarantees when that isn't considered solid enough to get the capital. it is the idea is to reward those tax rates to cavies support to those loan guarantees to take their risk to start a small business spirit and a better working with small businesses for a number of years as secretary of state i created the office of small business assistance that is very useful and around the state to tackle the of red tape as governor i created a small business because i know that 70 percent of jobs are created by a existing working physicist grow and
thrive. number one access to capital to be sure small businesses have the resources they need to be successful to major that they have access to to make sure the right to regulatory climate over 90 percent of jobs are created by small businesses of one to be sure it is every single corner of the state is thriving. >> and a recent national survey or again ranked second of nonmedical use of paid relievers that is way ahead of the state average so what steps would you take to provide health care providers are not over prescribing will be weighed quick. >> it is absolutely unacceptable. there are a couple of ways to tackle a problem and one is to make sure we have adequate judge and - -
drug and alcohol treatment available as we implement fully into the coordinated care organization but one of the reasons i am supporting the ballot measure 97 to make sure we are moving forward with health care particularly mental health and treatment that we would kick people off the oregon health plan. second we look with physicians and medical providers to make sure we have additional tools available spare mag governor goddess into trouble and the past i remember taking mandatory eight our pain classes they said if they
are in pain give them pain medicine until the pain is gone. that was the gist of the argument so medicine realizes the trouble that we are in to encourage that non narcotic and from the provider perspective to have a place to send people easily. because when you are a physician you need that help . .