tv Open Phones with Juliette Kayyem CSPAN November 20, 2016 2:25pm-3:01pm EST
last word. >> caller: i just want you to know that you bring to convert every time i watch you on fox five. you seem to be the grown-up as to the time at the table and i enjoy a little bit of my president watching you every day. president reagan, president bush meant they were my president. so you bring some calm to the situation. i'm one of the silent. my husband is a law enforcement officer. my family were special agents. we were one of the silent because we couldn't put out a flag without someone taking our house. it just feels like it became a very un-american country. we were one of the silent. we asked for the white house to become blue and every time now, no. i am one of the silent but i did
go for trial because he's the closest thing that shows strength and comfort. >> host: thank you, audra. we will leave it there. train to >> guest: thank you so much. a lot of people may a lot of people maybe felt that way on both sides that they can be public about who they supported that plenty of people were public about it and now that the election is behind us, we will happen in moderation and hopefully everybody can keep an open mind and see what they do rather than worrying about what they may do. i think the whole country could take a collect it deep breath and enjoy the holidays and all picked back up in january. >> host: dana perino, juan williams have all been on booktv. what are we going to get the other two? >> guest: i will talk to them this week. dana perino hears her most recent book, "let me tell you about jasper...: how my best friend became america's dog". this is booktv on c-span2 and way of life in miami.
>> our friendship should not have been surprising. they would have known that justice scalia was exceedingly fond of justice brennan who is also at the opposite side in many cases and justice brennan usually enjoyed justice scalia's company as i do. he has an extraordinary ability to make you smile, even months. we were on the d.c. circuit to gather. justice scalia would whisper some mean to me. i had everything, all i could do to avoid laughing out loud. i have to sometimes pinch myself.
the state of massachusetts. >> what were some of the issues? >> some think of homeland security as just terrorism, but it's not. it's a bit of a what is homeland security and it's called all hazard, which is any threat that may be faced. will spills, zika virus, anything and what we try to do is to focus on what the risk is, but also prepare cities and states for what might happen if if a threat comes to pass. in the book i describe in 2001 homeland security was created and everyone was so afraid and 2005 was really a course correction and that was hurricane katrina and that told people like me that a nation that was too focused on stopping
guys getting on an airplane was not nurturing an apparatus that would save close to 2000 people from dying. >> we would certainly do it differently, but you have to commit that to the boat he built and and what the secretary who i work for and now jay johnson is trying to create eight dhs and there are ways to think about what dh life should look like in the future. for one, it's clearly our border
agency, i mean, it is the coast guard, tsa, border protection, what's flowing in and out of the country and not just to stop it, but how do you promote commercial activity and move people and goods and ideas and also, fema, response apparatus, which is when something bad happens are our cities safe and is our nation prepared to say people when they needed the most. >> host: before we go further we will get the phone lines up so people can participate. juliette kayyem, you said you had strong thoughts, what are two things you do differently? >> guest: i would take the secret service out and it's sort of a different kind of-- it's so
in line with the department in terms of investigation, so that is certainly one thing, but what a lot of people don't know is that the department has a large intelligent apparatus. i'm not saying that's a value added, but in my business, the consumer of intelligence it figures out what the threats are in response in kind or prepares in-kind. there are the terror threats, which you think of all which are always vague in the next part is the weather; right? because you know our hurricanes coming, are we worried about flooding, so conceptualize the department as being all hazards and my worries we are so focused on it as being terrorism that we will forget that it's working
with states and localities for all hazards because there is not that much terror in the united states. you could not create a whole agency for terrorism. >> host: so, is the 911 outmoded? >> guest: yes, essentially because we have to get our heads around this idea of never again, sort of out of 911 was a fallacy for a million reasons, because the idea that we were going to stop all bad things from happening is a fiction given the kind of country we are in the kind of country we want to be, so we have to embrace her our vulnerabilities as we do as parents and that's the "security mom" aspect. not to scare people here, but this is what it means to live in a vulnerable society, diversity people coming together on a street corner sharing and reading and talking about books
or think of a boston marathon come you cannot have a perfectly safe spot. the only perfectly safe spot you could have would be to cancel it , so what we try to do from homeland security is try to minimize this and try get people to think not only that vulnerability is something that is on a day to day level, but also their own preparedness and protection and that's where i'm quite critical of even people like me that we talk with the american public in a way that might make them to now.
or checking them out or anything that goes wrong is a sign of someone's fault. it's just an unhealthy way to think about the nation that we are, so i remind people. people say why can't we be more like israel and i say, first of all there is no comparison. at any given moment in the united states or in a 24 hour period there are like 1.4 million people getting on domestic flights. think of that. that's awesome and that's a good thing, but that will always just create levels of vulnerability. the mantra of the book is to obese gear, get prepared. so you can do something like
having your kids put on helmets or talking to them about cyber bullying and i can actually do things about it for the one thing that actually matters most there is a clear way in which tsa has changed sort of or lowered the vulnerabilities of our airports and airplanes and what is in the proof that there has been no attacks sense 911, but what i like to remind people is that we had to think of security as layers with all sorts-- when i go on a flight tonight and when i sign in there are security levels on that, who i am, where i have traveled and mi a certain type of flyer, did i pay in cash, was a just in afghanistan, all sorts of things, so the tsa line is one
of 20 things going on. could it be better? yes. i think technology will change the way we encounter that stuff. plus, right now traveling, there is a burden and unburdening class, the burden classes-- [inaudible] >> so i think airline travel in the next five years will travel. >> host: the book is called "security mom: an unclassified guide to proctecting our homeland and your home". >> guest: it's a beast-- be. >> host: down here in florida you never know where it began its life. >> guest: it's the mosquitoes we are more worried about. i think we are okay. >> guest: k from virginia.
k, go ahead and. >> caller: hello. unconcerned about the electronic magnetic poles and i wonder if there are plans to fix our electric grid to protect us. >> guest: yeah, so it is a concern of some people and i have to tell you in the risk of concerns is not actually a major concern. the biggest threat to our national grid is owned by the private sector and there is not a lot of rules and regulations regarding their preparedness, for safety and security, so when we talk about craig live the structure a lot of what we talk about now has to do with resiliency, making sure that if there is on attack or a threat that our grid that we are able to still connect during a crisis. >> host: why do states have homeland security offices? >> guest: they are a creation of 911 and they were away for the
department to have sort of one-stop shopping in each estate, so just like eight state hhs said, health and human services, so each role is different in each state. some are that i jumped general work in my case i was a civilian overseeing public safety entities, working for progressive governors. the bush administration was in its last two years, so there was conflict in particular about immigration, which is a big issue that we are talking about now, but it's a way for the department to have one stop shopping in my job was to make sure each of the localities was prepared and also making sure that states weren't doing things that were inconsistent with who we were as a stay, so you hear a lot about the militarization of our police department and a lot of that is homeland security money, money that came out of the 2001, money flowing through
the state localities, every podunk police department wants it, swat team once it and we are retracting from that which is a good thing. i believe there should be dedicated swat teams in metropolitan areas, but we need to think about what resources police department's need on a day-to-day basis. >> host: in your book, "security mom" you write i sometimes worry that the body american was and maybe still is suffering from ptsd. >> guest: we still are. i mean, the threat of terror looms over us i think politically, psychologically, parentally in a way that is completely inconsistent with the data. part of that i'm willing to admit is used for political purposes and part because the american public doesn't know how to manage risk in a meaningful way and part of that is the fault of people like me who probably did not communicate with the american public. look, i mean, we are a nation of
over 350 million people with borders that are flowing for good reasons. we tend to think of illegal immigration there is millions of people coming over that american-born fall-- border lawfully every week, so we need to recognize the rut-- 911 and prepared to avoid catastrophic terrorism, recognize the threat has changed since 911 and it's now more like whack a mole, these guys are alone in their room getting radicalized with easy access to weaponry, no security apparatus will stop that and so this idea that if only we did more, we were tougher, stronger we could stop that, you will be looking at one thing and then lo and behold comes up oil spill, something that traumatically changes the well-being and life of residence of five gulf states, so that as a part of me is to help get
people understand vulnerabilities and also how they can prepare and engage for their own peer deaths. >> host: next call for juliette kayyem comes from mike in fort worth, texas. >> caller: i have a question for juliette kayyem, first, my observation, terrorists have already changed our life. you can take toothpaste on an airplane or soda, bottled water and all the subhuman the bridge. you have to take your shoes off, so my kids now i used to say-- they don't understand. in a way it has already changed our lives. i suspect once we get a hold of this terrorists, what it will be a bit more-- so far we can live with it, but it will get worse. donald trump talks a lot about border security and i happen to
agree with him, not as far as-- even though they are coming here illegally i don't have a problem with immigrants coming over, but unless we get control of that border with a wall or whatever were however we do it, terrorists will start using that to come in through the border because right now from what i hear on tv there's a hard time infiltrating the us because we are overseas, but unless they-- >> host: go ahead, juliette kayyem. mike, i think we got the point. >> guest: i know being where you're from there are major concerns about the border, so basically i come from the world of homeland security, so let me explain the border. the border already has a wall. that never really came out. i think there are something like 700 miles of wall, fencing and some reasons why we don't have walls is because there are water or high mountains. in that instance there's a lot
of surveillance and other issues , so to the extent that net flow of illegal immigration is actually a negative now, which is a sign of how much of the committed to border patrol agents and we have to keep that up. what i think is lost in a lot of the discussion is most people who are here unlawfully actually came lawfully. over 60% of the people here lawfully-- unlawfully came on a tourist visa, student visa, travel visa and just stayed, so part of the challenge when talking about controlling our borders is that they are actually in the united states, so then you have an issue about if you deport people, what levels of deportation or what standards do you want and i was part of the obama administration and we started to set those standards and i believe donald trump has repeated that. you want your violent criminal offenders out and what you want to do is then minimize the disruption of the families that are here the built a life here
who are not unlawful or two there is no are getting rid of or deporting 12 to 15 illegal immigrants. it would make case a country that we did not recognize anymore and i think the good news is that in this world of crazy debating there is bipartisan support for focusing on criminal balance and other violent actors who are here on-- unlawfully. >> host: in your book, "security mom" you write attacks often occurred during a closely to transition from one government or another, which we are currently in. >> guest: i did transition from president obama. a bit different because it was the first transition for the department of homeland security. i had never been to the department before. most transition is people that work in the agency, so one of the major transitions is was madrid two days, one day before the election i believe.
here are my thoughts about the transition. there's been a lot of focus on the people. who's going to be this cabinet secretary and we haven't heard much about the head of homeland security. it's literally one 10th of what good transition is about. good transitions are about people who are running on agency handing to the new people and not just the secretary, but how does it work, what programs are working, which ones are failings in which one should be, was the budget like, how many coast guard cutters do they need, all sorts of questions. that's beginning. its beginning a bit too late. they will have a lot of catch up to do, but this transition worries me like the last one. the story i tell in the book that a lot of people don't know and i would recommend for this president elect. when we came in there was a major threat alert and it's been written about against president obama. he was actually one of the most
targeted president-elect and part of that was that he's african-american and he had young children. there was a threat stream occurring during the inauguration that everyone was worried about, so the president with the secretary elect decided to ask the former secretary of homeland security, can you stay an extra day, can you stay through january 20, but what you don't want on day one is the transition of leadership when not threat environment is high and i think it's a pretty smart move and a good gesture for the department. i don't know if jay johnson will agree, but i think it's important because at that moment when the attack if the attack or when the-- when people are security because there will be a lot of issues going around this inauguration. there is a big march the next day. you don't want to be changing captains in the middle of it, so it might be something for that trumpet team to think about. >> host: you also write, though,
and maybe i'm interpreting this wrong, but i got the attitude that you were writing about, oh, we will come in there and we know everything and reality hits. >> guest: reality hits. first of all i have major objections with this president-elect and i was a strong hillary supporter and was planning to be on her transition then, reality hit. in all of the politics 80% or 90% of what the department does is going to remain this same. the coast guard will still save fishermen who are drowning. fema will still help flooded victims find shelter i mean look, customs and border protection is so going to be at the borders in the airports. there are major areas discriminate that people like me on the outside will be spending a lot of time criticizing. i think a ban on muslim immigrants is a bad idea for 100
reasons. i think some of the more immigration measures are likely to disrupt the nation in ways that don't minimize our risk. for the most part, things are-- agencies tend to run i think that might not be true for the department of justice, but for an agency like ours, we are operational and one of the challenges that any new administration comes in a sort of, what are your priorities, how do you sort of enforce them and put them in place and how do you do so in a way that has the support and in homeland security case, of the governors and mayors, so i think there will be a lot of pushback. in particular, by mayors and not just liberal ones. i mean, the republican mayors know you cannot go to war with your immigrant communities and another issue we have not talked about his climate change. we have a president elect to does not recognize climate change.
it's a threat that people in my field worry bout, the one that will really disrupt who we are as a nation, how we live, so if you're federal government is not dealing with it, i think mayors and governors will be doing creative things as they are here in miami to address it. there's no option. >> host: next call for juliette kayyem, her book is called "security mom", don in maryland worked on, thank you for holding you are on the air. >> caller: hello? >> host: please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: yeah, can you hear me >> host: don, please go ahead. we are listening. >> caller: thank you. yeah, i'm not that concerned about the so-called terrorist threat and al qaeda. i'm more concerned about the culture of violence in this country with all the guns we
have and all of the shootings. every day i turn on the tv i hear someone got shot killed. what about these militia groups? you have militia groups out here eight in the border patrol. talk about that. why do we have militia groups out here 80 the border control? >> guest: excellent question. limited the first one on guns. as i say in the book, the thing that is-- makes us victims is not isis or any of the other things i mentioned. it is guns in this proliferation of guns, the lack of gun culture, lack of gun rules and as a homeland security person i know that and in the book i talk about ways that even people who own guns for people to be more
responsible with gun ownership tickets a simple basic fact that 5-year old and guns don't match and don't work well together, so we look at the data and a lot of the gun deaths are related to either in-house accidents or suicide, so we need to get very serious about that. i'm for stronger gun laws as a way to minimize risk in the no-brainer for me is the no-fly rule of not pretty people who are on the non- fly list from acquiring guns and that is sort of terrorism, as for the militia helping border patrol. it should not be allowed. sometimes there is mo you with local law enforcement, but if vigilante groups are helping border protection as far as the rules are that now that should be disallowed, but you are correct that the rise of white supremacy in the this nation and to be honest in response to a very harsh election is something that will be part of the terror
threat for many communities in this country and we need to take that as seriously if not more so then said isis threat, which is -- still occurs, but thankfully minimal and its impact. >> host: david in new york city. hello, david. we are listening. >> caller: i just want to say that this was one excellent presentation. i for one never release that of homeland security the way you told this about it. i think that maybe that's part of the problem. i don't think that i'm unique and not knowing that, but i want to tell you that i think the way you made this presentation was it so good. you should put it on like facebook or wikileaks because i think it's important for people to know and so i thank you. >> guest: thanks, dad. no, i'm joking. that was not my dad. i appreciate that. that's part of what the book is
trying to do and shameless plug, i do have a podcast. some of you know i'm on cnn talking about these issues, but my goal of telling this as a memoir and as a mother first and foremost and then sort of one of these homeland security people is to try to get people to recognize what homeland security is about. one of my favorite moments in the book or explanations in the book is when i describe for those of us in new england how a snow day is called. most people don't know. they are sort of waiting for someone to call it, so i detail and explain the ways in which a snow day is called and we decide if people stay home or if they don't stay home or how do-- what happens after an attempted terrorist attack at the airline said things like that and that sort of how also to provide advice on how each of us can engage our own families and of
course, our communities and not just minimizing the risk, but support to keep sane in this day and age to also maintain who we are as communities and as a nation. you know, it is very important that we do not focus on security so much that we sort of forgets what makes this nation so vibrant. as i sit here in miami with thousands of people buying books, it's amazing. >> host: tom, urbana, illinois. make your comment for juliette kayyem. >> caller: thanks for taking my call. once again, i am sure your book is found that find bookstores everywhere and available again,k is found that find bookstores everywhere and available for purchase your kind wishes best of luck, but my question is to the lone wolf or the radicalized individual in their bedroom, from a security standpoint and your purview, what programs are available to win the hearts and
minds back of these individuals committing these crimes? it seems like a philosophical debate at that pnt. i would sure appreciate your comments and the best of luck to your book. >> guest: thank you so much. no, this is serious business and the government has been taking it seriously from bush through obama, so there is a lot of consistency. the program itself is called countering violent extremism, a program that many pieces of the government are a part of and it's meant to just-- the government will not convince a young guy who is either converted or adherent of islam, convincing him not to pick the best use of government resources is to engage arab and muslim communities in minimizing the extremism is there-- in their own community and the radicalization process, so a lot of this is good old-fashione