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tv   All the Real Indians Died Off  CSPAN  November 26, 2016 2:30pm-4:01pm EST

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he was ready to go. that was my day. i went home about midnight. hadk they took out --dash took off out of dallas. we arrived to a brand-new world. talk briefly what every new agency had you going and he worked with the justice department. and so what is involved in the first week. i have dealt with all of the
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leadership. and white house counsel. i have tremendous advantages quite frankly. of course you're gonna meet new people and people that don't know you because there's a hundred 5,000 people at the department and they all want to look at the boss. if the project a level of confidence and also from my perspective i spent as much time as i could. going to the various agencies and their floors and stopping by shaking people's hands and getting to know the employees at the department of justice. i would say that question is a little bit unfair to me. b final comments?
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>> because my wife is here i want to say and i talk about this in the book and i think it will be reflected in the book. that is the importance of family and support. i could not had done what i did without the support of my family. i talk about the difficult times that we went through in washington and how it affected my family and becky was always there for me. i'm very grateful for the service that she provided. grateful to george w bush for the opportunity. to work with other dedicateddi individuals who really care a lot about america i work every day to do the right thing. >> thank you so much for being here. [applause]. thank you all for coming. al will be there after this.
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they all want to buy by the dozen. thank you very much. >> every weekend today at 6:45 p.m. eastern david baron circuit judge for the first circuit provides a history of the debate between the executive and legislative branch of the right to declare war. in his book waging more. the clash between presidents in congress. 1776 phthisis. twenty to him at the national constitution center in philadelphia is theodore ruger. >> the two branches are really in a dance with each other. backing down from the president. sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards. they look at gun deaths in
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america over a 24 hour time in his book another day in the death of america. a chronicle of ten short lives. >> is a broader societal thing which dehumanizes them. i think that there is a real problem once you start saying there is a suggestion that it would be ready of them to be killed. >> thank you for coming out.
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it is great that we are getting rain. thank you for coming out. there is a couple students here. >> thank you for waiting so patiently. c-span is here recording. we are very excited to have them here. a long time independent bookstore in albuquerque. we been hosting authors and supporting a lot of local endeavors. we can. the fact that trees are still being disregarded and the
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desecration of native lands are going on we are very honored to have it to authors here today to talk about the various myths about native american culture. we are taking the country by storm. they are doing a national to her . you might have heard that. they grew up in oklahoma. a part apart indian mother. they've been active. a lot of the social justice advocates. they taught in the newly established native american country. she is the author of the great sioux nation.
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in the recent book. she lives in san francisco. the confederate tribe. the scholar at the center of the world. she also lives in california. please welcome by our authors. please welcome by our authors. think you to the students and faculty here. and the staff this is a very important institution in albuquerque.
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they can each read a myth so you will get too to out of the 21. there is a mixed number with 19. what is the problem for thinking that. has anyone ever heard that one. in the united states. hundreds of distinctive nations. with experiences under the unit since colonialism. the original territory.
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to which the ancestors were moved. east of the mississippi. now oklahoma. about half of the native population. at any one time in urban areas. the issue of whites. there is no one among the natives. with the culturally native woman. and there never has been. so keeping that in mind i'm in a talk to a lot of generalities and keep in mind this is a diversity which i think is actually the
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problem. although the stereotypes have changed over time there are nearly always monolithic. they are an ethnic group for one racial category rather than nations. with the united states dominations. the counterparts for natives other romanticized. it was the first indian princess . and that mythologized figure consists.
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in the hollywood movies. many euro-american women. they depicted it as having later skin and being more european than others. and having a petite but shapely body. the mythical indian princess is a common stereotype though. sacajawea and other native women scout although they were not categorized as princesses. such as lewis and clark. and to for traders.
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often they are portrayed as daughter of tribal chiefs. they had stated that the myth helps to perpetuate the values because she leads her people to become a christian. that is the myth of pocahontas as they focus on those values and the uses of squaw has rolling into disrepute. but it is still ambiguous. on television all the time. as well as historical documents. it's there. there are also also still around a thousand official
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place names in the united states in which of the term squaw is used. further it remains an active serotype of traditional women even when the term itself is not used anymore. in movies in history even once a been made and right now. we see an image of a drudge of a very dark senate figure who was doing all the heavy lifting in a digital is settings. are lazing around while women do the work. both of them constitute racist stereotype. meant to render right superior and perpetuate values. the roles and status of women
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varied with hundreds of societies. or reliant on that. the widely different areas. of egg quince, acorns, berries and nuts and other foods and medicines. the roles are the eastern half of north america. indicated a. in the navajo women and what is now the u.s. southwest. it was found to be remarkable when compared with women's
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roles in western europe on the eve. in the agricultural societies when where the creative a seed and hybrids and they played to the crops. each of these nations has divergent forms of government but the common basis many varieties and colors were similar. women were also architects, builders men were stone coders and weeder -- weavers. women controlled directly or ceremonially the distribution.
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they were probably strongest. the federation. certain of these control the choice of male representatives for their clients in governing council. i shouldn't say in the past tense because it's still the way it is. and when that chosen male representative was too young they might want to step in and participate in the council on his behalf. they held the power to recall unsatisfactory representatives the author of 1491 the new revelations of americans before columbus, causes government the structure of
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the greed. the dream of freedom solidarity and equity was pre- american. but only the british had developed the institutions before planting colonies in north america. they had developed these methods in practices in the conquest of the irish. pushing small farmers off their land to be replaced by commercial oriented settlers. the production. of the wood. of the wildlife they depended on. so what you had is a lot of
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surplus people the jobless population with persuaded to take the one we journey to british outpost on the atlantic coast of north america. this then was the start of the colonialism in north america. i include canada and north america. including convicts with promises of that they could they built with them the patriotic culture under roman and christian laws in practices. a level of subordination of women unknown in north america but inherent to the culture of the conquest and settlement which is based on violence and the violation of native women.
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they had continued to bear the brunt of colonial violence specifically sexual violence both within families and by settler predators. an increasingly traffickers. it has long been astronomical. views that. on the policing authority yet another legacy of conquest. it opens the door for perpetrators of sexual violence to note know there will be no consequences for their actions. under the u.s. colonial system the jurisdiction for crimes committed on native lands. the federal authority. by legislation in the 1880s. they can be applied only to reservations.
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in the rate of fault is more than twice the national average after the publication of a skating 2007 report the women's organization including the national organization for women lobby congress to add a new section to the 1994 violence against women act. with the special situation of negative -- native women. it would give them ports to arrest and prosecute non-native men who enter reservations.
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or any other crime. at the end of 2012 the republican dominated u.s. congress denied the reauthorization of the violence against women act because it included that provision. have been renewed ever since i went through 1992. but there was so much outcry from women that in march 2013 that opposition was overcome and president barack obama signed the amended act back into law. it was definitely a victory for a little increase in acknowledged sovereignty but also had some limitations. it was not the whole solution. another difficulty in general in the united states
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especially for women was a scholar that joined them and pointed out the demand for native authenticity which really means to appear and act in a particular prescribed manner to be considered inauthentic native woman. this demand on women was not only emotionally painful but also creates social inequalities and injustices associated with the u.s. order of racism. overcoming internal colonization is critical to achieving the conversation in self-determination. native women and scholars in the forefront of exposing these issues and seeking revolution. in her her book indigenous american women under the
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native scholar they described in analyzes the various ways that many of them in so doing. they limit the full involvement of native women. and prevent them from realizing industrial roles. centuries of imposed colonization's with the resulting sexual violence. other results pointed out are severe income gaps which fall heavily on women and families.
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they are not able to carry out their traditional responsibilities. there are some positive changes that women are making in their lives relationships and professional advancement. this is in part rooted in the key role that they had played in the past 40 years with the native resistance. it arose after the 1953 congressional revolution to terminate treaty based in an attempt to carol out genocide to complete the violence genocidal u.s. army and malicious campaign. termination was to proceed, company by the vigorous relocation program. they would abandon the
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reservations to designated urban areas was some initial expenses paid. it would make the dispersal unnecessary. although it was promised that it would happen if they did not do it voluntarily. native people began to organize and some looked into possible regress three the united nations. in 1961. the young relocated natives along with some have not left the reservations with the national youth council was founded and based here in albuquerque and still going strong today. with mohawk intellectual surely help. she builds the organization nationally in their doing so
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in the southwest. at the same time they were organized. it was quite extraordinary. in the early 60s. in 1964 they organized support for the ongoing movement to protect the fishing rights and other indigenous people. the extraordinary action. the local actions multiplied in native communities and nations during the 1960s a spectacular november 1969 and following 18 months occupation
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native american students and community members living in the bay area initiated an alliance known as an indian of all tribes. they built a striving -- thriving village. from all over the continent radicalizing thousands especially native youth. they were impressive among them many others who had continued to organize in serve as role models in the early 21st century. three years later in 1973 hundreds of militarized fbi and other federal and state agencies surrounded did me a hamlet on the pine ridge reservation and so began a two
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and half month siege against the american indian movement protesters and the traditional people they were there at that spot. so it was made up of a little bit more than a trading post in the mass grave in 1890. during the 1973 siege armed personnel carriers helicopters in the military sabres is around the site. supply teams made their way through the military lines and back out again to the dark of night. again as an albatross as were dozens of other women of all ages both inside and outside
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the besieged counsel who organized the support systems around the country. and right now at this moment madonna thunder hawk now an elder can be found at the red warrior camp on the front lines opposing the pipeline. and struggling and struggling for a better future. [applause]. ..
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it's really a controversial topic even today specially in academia there's a lot of argument about what genocide is and whether or not it actually happened here. so i will just jump right into it. 149-year-old and a naavajo. lecture about california indian history the part time adjunct
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believing it to be too strong a word that again ied implies that it was on purpose and most needed people were wiped out by europeans anyway. over next couple of years johnson provide evidence of genocide. she had hijacked the class and accusing of bigotry and racism. claims later disputed. triggering an investigation to the incident. the result of the university's investigation found no one at fault. story quickly infiltrated in media outlets and sparked debate whether or not genocide
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accurately characterizes history. a few topic can elicit the emotional charge that questions of genocide count. imposed to those who implicate the quote, crime of crimes along side nazi germany and the empire and armenian again side and others. it wasn't until second half of the 240th century with the rise of the civil rights movement, the birth of ethic and native study programs and increasing interest of people of higher into higher education that scholars began applying genocide to u.s. policies even though the term extermination was widely
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used throughout 149th century and earlier referring to u.s. policies regarding indians. a bill had been passed into defense appropriation's bill, the joint resolution acknowledges historical events like the massacre and sand creek removal from their homeland and taking children for education and the distant boarding schools acknowledges, quote, years of official deprivation by the federal government regarding indian tribes, unquote and expresses, quote, regret for the ramification, but no where is the word genocide used.
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in fact, to minimize u.s. violence against natives, natives and nonnatives settler engaged in numerous armed conflict in which unfortunately both took innocent lives including those of women and children. the warfare that united states and earlier european settlers exercised against native peoples which ultimately killed par more natives than nonnatives. based and whether or not genocide occurred on u.s. toil, followed different tracks and depend largely upon narrowly or loosely how narrowly or loosely genocide is defined.
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the most common method is compared to jewish holocaust, for example. the problem with too expansive a definition is that deluding the criteria renders definition meaningless. on the other hand, if the definition of genocide is limited, the actual mass killing of victim peoples -- blurs the concept of genocide by demin-ing, quote, those practice directed against whole peoples or other definable social groups with destroying integrities in cultural genocide. it's problematic because it obscures the seriousness obviously intended in the campaign to make genocide a crime.
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instead of thinking of genocide understand how colonial violence unfolds. another argument detractor to receive genocide contention is the one used by sacramento state professor that it was disease that killed most of the indigenous population and not violence. the argument that the dramatic decline of native population was due primarily to the natural disaster of biological pathogens, it's been widely perpetuated that has become standard among historians. one of the biggest problems is that it also promulgated the myth of an up occupied virgin
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wilderness that justified encroachment into native territories. a third and more moderate line of analysis holds that the term genocide may not necessarily apply to all american indian groups by might more appropriately be assessed on a group by group or region by region basis, a concept that will return to. in order to make accurate assessment of genocide there must also be evidence of deliberate state or government to inaluate an entire population, in the academic world despite resistance during 1970's and early 1980's within some discipline to grant platforms to the study of genocide, the genealogy of native american, genocide is more than academic study since
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it is a crime under international law framed by a treaty and case law. 1446 member states including the united states signatory of the convention, it was he who claimed an defined the germ genocide in 1994 as it was adopted in the un convention. according to the text of the treaty in present, in the present convention genocide means following acts committed with intent to distribute and national ethnical racial or religious group as such telling members of the group be causing seriously mentally harm to
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members of the group, c, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculate today bring about its physical destruction intended measures intended to create within the group and e forcibly transfer children to another group. the decryption con constitute two aspects of genocide. physical, which are each of those criteria and which is the intent to destroy. according to organization prevent genocide international it's a crime to plan or incite genocide even before killing starts or aide or abet genocide, criminal acts include conspiracy , public incitement and then u.s. context, the forcible transfer of children throughout the indian boarding school era and the intent to have
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transracial indian adoption alone arguably count as genocidal intent even if no other criteria are concerned. yet, even if we accept conservative arguments against the u.s. genocide intent, against all indicate kind groups as a whole and asset it on a regional basis, california stands out as an exceptional site of genocidal intent according to research of lindsey. lindsey draws on the un genocide convention to defend claims of full scale genocide in his award winning 2014 book murder genocide 1846 to 1873. for lindsey it is, quote, not exercise in presentism to employ the un convention as a model in a study of genocide for a period
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well before its creation, unquote, because the roots of genocide go deep into historical past. even though the term genocide did not exist in 19th century california, the concept of extermination was well developed and widely deployed throughout the state. citizen militias were empowered to murder indians by a legal system that offered indians no protection and rendered their existence basically illegal. the same legal structure that allowed the existence of a system of indian slavery disguised as apprenticeship. recent research affirming lindsey's findings revealed that after 1846 at least 20,000 california indians worked in some form of bondage under nonnative. we are talking about early 20th century here. late 19th, early 20th century. lindsey contends that by
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separating families, depriving children of native linguistic and cultural education and inflicting mental and physical hardships, euro americans destroyed native families, lowered birthrates and committed physical and cultural economic genocide. lindsey's research finds that rather than a government orchestrating population of a group, the population orchestrated a government to destroy a group as lindsey writes, quote, while california had a state militia it was illegal organized heavily armed, local volunteer that committed most of the murderers need today speed up dispossession and destruction of california native peoples. these men, democracy aroused native americans.
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citizen soldiers engaged in acts of self-interest and self-preservation. the california gold rush had inspired a state supported philosophy, extermination that only recently has accepted believe begun to referred to as genocide in the scholarship and lindsey's remarkable study gathered from documentation of the era argues that a campaign was waged against california indians between 1846 and 1873, carried out by largely by citizens, citizen soldiers in open quote companies, unquote. the extermination of native people was driven initially not only by the gold rush and the imperative of manifest destiny but increasing change and gold and land and gold rush failed to live up to the expectations of immigrant minors, land became to
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be more important than gold. as indians were pushed out of traditional territory because of flooded white settlement into native territories, they resisted and fought back in multiple ways to protect lands, cultures and sovereignty. self-defense was construed as aggression and deeply entrenched ideology of indian inpure -- this paveed the way for the blahed bath that took place during the second half of the 19th century. finally lindsey writes, a key to understanding the relationships between native americans and nonnative in california was to recognize our shared past contains a genocide of monstrous character and proportions perpetuated by democratic freedom loving citizens under the name of dem democracy but really to secure great wealth in
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the form of land against indians . we californians, he says, are the beneficiaries of genocide. around the same time that johnson was battling her professor at sack memento state -- sacramento about genocide was being debated with church. one step on the record to canonization, declarization of sainthood. potential saints must demonstrate holiness through types of godly works and miracles. sarah qualified for sainthood in california when he founded the california mission system in the 18th century. he was held up as a modern -- model for today's hispanics for
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the vatican said. but to do descendants of the indians who converted, sarah was qualified for sainthood. native scholars and activists have known about abuses of catholic church and denounced them and criticized by many as part of bush notorious agenda. the mission bill performed the work of not only stimulating the california tourist economy but also image of the california mission era. at time california indians considered the beginning of the
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brutality begins with the spanish padres under father serra. when the tide began to change and the deeply entrenched habit of romanticizing the mission have not allowed for the characterization of slavery by the catholic church. in 14978 however, historian robert controversially called attention to the mission history by blatantly referring to it as a system of slavery comparing it to the open quote forced movement of black people from africa to the american south, end quote. making the connection between forced labor and spanish economic self-interest. he argued that under the spanish there was little distinction between the secular and religious because of vested
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interest in economic exploitation of natives possible within the system. two often economic exploitation of native peoples was the strongest foundation of the surrounding civilian and military society. in 2004elias castillo a three-time pulitzer nominee criticizing the mission preservation bill and discarding the missions of little more than death camps run by francisco, castillo also said that the editorial prompted him to write the book called across the storms, california indians by the mission system which wasn't released until january 2015, well into the sarah canonization crusade.
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the movement with a petition urging pope francis to aband open his canonization plans signed over -- signed by over 10,000 people. by the pope traveling to south america and apologizing for mistreatment of the church, he might be persuaded to change his mind. the church stood up for sarah's work claiming that it was unfair to judge sarah for his actions by today's standards and it contended that the prior had protected the indians. >> so i think now is a good time
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to open the conversation and maybe start taking questions, see what's on people's minds, see if we can find a way to connect some of these some of what you read, what you heard us read here now or other things that might be on your mind, how can we bring this concept into the present moment or the conversations into the present moment. >> i do have a mic, i can bring over to you. if the authors maybe repeat the question for the audio feed, that would be great. anybody had a question? don't be shy. >> hi, we have seen how badly protectors are being treated in
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standing rock and nobody is doing anything to protect them, how can that be? >> so the question is as we are watching the water protectors at standing rock being treated so badly and nobody seems to be protecting them. >> well, i would say that there's actually -- well, i wouldn't put it exactly that way. there are water protectors but also relying on the treaties of 1851, 1868 which are their protection, their ancestors and died for and they had to give up a good deal of land to get a continuous land base so there are many other issues involved
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like the black hills by custard, the seventh cavalr and annexation and the governments admitted that but they've only allowed money or payment of $80 million. that was in 1980. that sum is now -- it's a trust fund. they refuse today take it. you have seen the conditions of people in the reservations there. the poorest people in the western hemisphere. they refused to take $80 million. they still refused. it's in a trust fund. $2.5billion. so these are people who don't need protection, they need massive, massive numbers of u.s. citizens demanding of this government, return to the black hills, stop all of the
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degradation of the land in that area. that's what they really need. >> i think it's the definition of genocide. i think that u.s. citizens, government and all leaders are denying that and, i think, i really like how you define the definition is intent to destroy, intent to destroy people and culture. it is defined as though they are awry yacht and so i think we still have a long way of understanding this, i think,
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america is still in denial of this and i think it will make many voices through written texts through education to make this known. it's been a lifetime struggle. i just wanted to comment. i don't know if it's a question but it's just a comment. thank you. >> so just to reflect back what you're saying, what you're saying is you think we are still struggling to have the concept of genocide recognized and it's absolutely true and the way that -- the way the evidence for that is in this official apology bill that we were given in 2009 that was signed into law by president obama says that, you know, they regret the ramifications, they
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regret for ramifications of former wrongs. that's really important language. what they're saying is they're placing that in the past, right, whatever we did, you know, in the past, even though you guys and there's the claws in there, you guys murdered people too, even -- but that's the past now and it's an advocation of accountability for what's happened now and what continues to happen now and we argue in the book, we ground in the theory of settler colonialism and settler colonialism is not historic event, it's a structure and that structure is all about the continual disposition of indigenous land to be transferred into into nonnative hands and so this is the process
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of eraseing peoples and the past so we can all move together into a beautiful multicultural future, so that's the thing. it is a denial of the past and what happens and it's woven into the systems that we have today. that's really the worst part of it. [inaudible] >> in oklahoma where we come from, my mom is a member and they told me one day, go change that name. i was nobody.
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so i told the coworker of mine and she told somebody and they came with a bill that was already in the books for five years that you could change the name but it had to be individually within the counties, wherever they were. so we went to the city and the county, we had to talk to the county and we did and because the elders wanted that and they wanted to change it to -- [inaudible] >> the people. the council actually did take that into consideration that they also wanted other names, so people came forward and somebody came, the army post, they
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suggested cross cannon creek. [laughter] [inaudible] so eventually without notice, one day we were going to actually -- honoring for my mother and everybody was asleep because we had to get up early that morning. [laughter] [inaudible] >> when we do little things like that like what you're doing, it will get there eventually. it's going to take probably longer or as long as it took for all that. thank you. >> so to repeat a little bit,
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the comanche's in oklahoma tried to get the council to same the name to scaw dreek neme, which means the people in comanche and they pushed back on it and they said no and they thought about other names like cross-cannon creek, by the battle of the wacata, the massacre nearby by custard, and no, no, so they thought of other things but our friend here saw the sign and changed it. so that's really progress in the sense that they did it on their own. there were no demonstrations or anything. it's just -- it's a teaching process and i just want to bring up something that, i think, is
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really, really important way to conceive of how nonindians can think about what to do. have any of them seen michael moore's latest movie? where should we invade next. you know the part of the german, he goes to different places for those of you who have seen it like in france, he likes to eat at the gourmet and the health system in britain so in germany he's looking at various things and he comes into a classroom middle school or high school students and the teacher, he listens to the class, they are learning about genocide, they are learning about the holocaust
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and he says you can imagine in the united states that kind of teaching going on in the classrooms, kids shouldn't have to learn these things, right, and so he sees in the classroom is one african immigrant and so he goes to him and he says, what about you? these people were nonjewish people, germans what sometimes their own relatives had done in recent times, and said what about you, you didn't have anything to do with this, you came from africa where your people really suffered genocide too and what -- and the young man said, you know, i'm now a german citizen and i have the responsibility for that history. so i think that is exactly what everyone in this country, every immigrant, african american,
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latino, every single person, every single classroom has to enview that responsibility and, of course, not only genocide native people but to acknowledge it and then say, what comes next, restitution. you can't just say that and not do something. germany pays till this day. people didn't -- they didn't die and live in, you know, fear but this is great fear of the truth in the united states. so i think that is very important that sense of responsibility and it makes people of -- >> okay, we've got the next
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question. >> i was curious about your thoughts on -- well, first, i was watching democracy now in which woodly, you know, the actor in movie interviewed by amy goodman and i've seen her interview quite a few times. i know she's, you know, for the native people at standing rock and advocating for that movement, but a few times i've seen her interview and she would say something to the matter of, you know, oh, you know, native tribes have been fighting each other for a really long time and this is the first time that all the tribes are coming together for this great cause, right, and
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so it reminds me thinking of the myth, you know, of native people, the myth in relation to genocide is that a lot of americans believe that oh, well, you know, tribes were already fighting each other and killing each other off before -- plans down the idea of genocide against native people. and so i hear her saying that and even mark to a certain extent, the famous actor, and so i was just wondering your comment on that, on that mess and maybe perhaps about, you know, when we think about, you know, americans and obviously, but, yes, i also feel there's
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ignorance in terms of being an american when it comes to really the genocide of native people that continue today to certain policies that exist attitudes that certain exists, that still exists towards native people, like even in the city of albuquerque and so i just wanted to know your thoughts on that particular message specially message about indians were killing each other before settlers came. anyway, if you can comment on that? >> to summarize the question, orlando says that in the standing rock coverage even among some of the allies like shakenly woodly the actress and mark ruffalo, embedded myths
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like well, indians were killing each other before settlers even got here which stands as a justification for the settler con scwes -- conquest that ends up happening and you're right. even the allies, people who intend well and want to do the right thing are still bound by their own ignorance, miseducation, we have all been miseducated here. if we grew up in the public school system we are miseducated. our children are being miseducated now. but to that question directly about the indian savagery to each other, we have a chapter about that. [laughter] >> we know this.
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he's are -- these are the ones that. >> most pervasive. but i was at a cnm before a year before i went to u&m and i had a professor, arestaurant my teacher who i got into a conversation who actually said that to me. indians were killing each other anyway and as a way to downplay the history violence of the united states government. and we do that in the chapter and we do it in a bunch of different ways but we point out that it really plays into the savage native stereotype and we refute it, refute the fact that
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indians were killing each other because if you look at military studies and that's what we do, we go into -- roxanne did that in previous book of history of early military practices and the citizen -- citizenry militias and all that. and these scholars, the military scholars really argue, you know, they provide an argument that is -- that completely refutes that. >> also even a lot of native people think that, well, the navajo disputes are pueblos on land that these were implacable enemies, books and books, i did lat inamerican history and
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spanish and new mexico, the two times and the revolution, 1680 and then up to u.s. colonization . jack had published a book in 1960, migrated down in precolonial times to this area, at alaska where they originated and canada, they called themselves diny also and apaches are related and they did hear the 98 city states including hopy and all the río grande and many more.
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there were 98, reduced to 21 by the spanish and then 19. but they had -- their irrigation , there were conflicts over water. if there's any abuse at the height of the water where it's coming from, there's no water for laguna, so there were -- there was diplomacy, there was all kinds of major, alfonso ortiz brilliant, i use his -- i have a chapter using his work that they would recruit navajo's and apache's to fight each other. it was internal struggle over water supply which is a normal human thing and it didn't last
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long, but when the spanish came, of course, the land they wanted was the pueblo land because they we wanted to appropriate already developed land and simply take it away from them and, you know, then starved to death but the navajo's and apache they were not conquerable. and so they simply u.s. historians who study this area just assumed there was always a hostility between the pueblos and the apaches and navajos. it still gets repeated and repeated over a long time, hatred between these nations. they can never get together,
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they could never unify and to use that we see at standing rock right now, it's an opportunistic way to make that e rroneus point. that's the loop way of doing it. it's element outright bigotry because you can deal with. but it's so wrong. and it then leads to all other kinds of thinkings about native people, their relationship. for wasn't thing there have been many times, in fact, week after week, month after month, inner tribeal all northern continent, there are basketball games, there are interchanges of nay
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tiff people, certainly precolonial times. this was not unusual, five years ago the northern shian and the looni in seattle built a relationship to pipeline and they wanted oil plant. so they've been united fighting this and with other people in between. it's just it hasn't gotten attention. so because it habit gotten attention, now they are. >> any other question or commentary? theresa gómez. >> i would just like to ask you, do you still think there's a genocide against indian people going on because you mentioned that decade ago and we still
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have -- we haven't -- in canada there's murder of missing women but in the u.s. we don't have one and we still have murdered missing women and men that go on and if you pay close attention to the news that report about native americans, many are murdered and it's just from homelands to guy standing on the street or things like that, would you say that there's still ongoing? >> theresa's question to reiterate is there a still a genocide going on against native people. i would say, i would go back to patrick the scholar who coins this idea of settler colonialism and it being system of e
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elimination, that's one way that it occurs. i think that maybe, i don't know if the argument can be made about an actual genocide, maybe. i would say it's maybe for accurate or maybe useful to think of it in terms of the structure of elimination that the united states is based on and, you know, this elimination happens in all the different kinds of ways that wrote the political existences of people, so, you know, all of these forces that have happened, boarding schools, the officially encouraged into marriage, definitions of the native americans are based, that kind
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of stuff, yeah, i think it's just -- it's a structural system that has been crystallized in the american society that is really, i think, more relevant way of looking at it. >> a point about genocide, i've been doing this international law work for about 40 years now for a project native project at the united nations that came after wounded knee, taking the treaties there but now it's a worldwide indigenous movement and the genocide convention is a live convention. 1948, came into effect in 1950 the united states didn't ratify it until 1988. they are the only country in the world that didn't ratify the genocide conventions until 1988. they also made exceptions to it,
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but that means that to bring the case now, it has to have implications of genocide that are happening since 1988 and i actually think there is and others do too, we are actually building cases on genocide based on that item, the five items that can constitute genocide, you don't have to have them all, any wasn't of them and the creation of conditions that make a future impossible for a group, you see it being played out right now in standing rock. you see it being played out in, you know, in the coastal area where is salmon is the heart of the culture and the nutrition and people coming together, these communities that are unique communities that have this bond. that's going to be a wasteland in a few years unless this
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production. they will not be able to continue to exist as the people so -- and the other thing that genocide convention is titled the prevention and protection, so prevention you can bring a case based on no, it's not a genocide yet, but it must be prevented and that's what i'm arguing right now about standing rock when i talk to people that -- that use the genocide convention. if this goes on and this won't be the last of it if they do this, they have all the allotments and leases from the indian organization act and illegally the federal government allowing this land to be illegally kept, it has to be bundled together and refuted and i think i actually think a
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genocide is something that we can document and present to the international -- you know, to the international criminal court . >> a quick follow-up. >> oh, i'm sorry. little thing we have to protect here. >> i was thinking about -- i've been paying attention on facebook to the standing rock and so it looked to me, i haven't been up there yet but some of my students have, and it looked to me how easily they were spraying that gas on to the people and beating them down and what -- why is that not called genocide? she was doing a procedure to me and she said, you mean you've never had this done, no, those
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people are killing you on, not only at the dentist at the hospitals. [laughter] >> here in albuquerque we are met with different attitude, so anything in many ways -- [inaudible] >> i thought, i was watching the police or the security or whatever was spraying those people and the way they were looking at them, i thought how easily they spray these people and hit these people when like no regard that they are people, you know, and so i thought, i feel like it's still going on and i don't know if i'm right, but that's my attitude toward it, thank you. >> i think we should maybe one more question and then i think people would like to talk to us individually and sign books, maybe.
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>> our last question here. after that i have a book table in the back if you would like to take a look at the books and possibly purchase books and we have a couple of roxanne's other books, here is our last question. i'm interested in the previous job that i had -- >> put your microphone -- >> equal opportunity. thank you for your presentation today and -- [inaudible] >> but what happens is on an interview when someone is requesting a new contract, you could go in and, you know, make the application. we are worried about are you based on the population, what
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you're supposed to do and that is our people in the way that they are represented in the community, so that you have a good indication of your population as being represented of the area that you're in. the people could get away with something like hiring somebody, you know, some female, somebody, and assign them to a hard maintenance job and again knowing that as bad as it was that they were going to leave so they could always get approved for the contract that they had set up and not be called on for it. and it was an easy way of basically taking really hard
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working individuals, does it make any difference to females just when entered in the category and it's hurt a lot of people. >> thank you. >> as you can see what i'm saying. >> yeah. thank you. >> i think the point is there are a lot of things that go on with economic, cultural depressions. >> hello. >> hi. >> hello. my name is sean and my question is -- [inaudible] >> as you mentioned earlier about the community has been really crystallized and you see it on many levels. so my question is, it is
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election season, so if they -- democrats take the presidency, the house, both houses, i wonder if there will be more legislation and things that can change, you know, what i mean, more room for those small incremental steps because from -- i'm a student from college and i studied political science and native american studies so i truly believe that in order the change these things it's going to be a long, long process as far as like a hundred-year plan. so, i guess, i think the way
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change can happen will be more like a constructive-type of idea where we can be changing, you know, what i mean, after that complete or little name changes that we have grown up in this area my whole life i've seen like you mentioned earlier, like every book that i read of the battle, my people and all this stuff but the truth is there is a past that history and navajo have a lot of allies and culture technology exchange. and not realizing that there's a
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lot of international affairs, but -- >> so to summarize that, that question, you're asking if there's -- was a change in a political leadership in the country if specially if it turns democrat, what are the changes of do we have hope for breaking down the systems to -- image what you're saying is to bring about real political equality for native people and i don't -- i don't know. i agree with you that if that's possible, it's a long way out. it's a really long-term project. it's going to require breaking down the systems that are -- are the united states dominance society is bound by this
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miseducation and the narratives that have constructed american society, so on the one hand, that has to be deconstructed and reconstructed. that's a major, you know, that's like mind boggling huge project and but the big problem in my opinion, the way the system is comes down to legal system. the legal system still controlled by domestic nations and the trust doctrine, you know, those construct our reality. i mean, we are still living as dominative people and is because of the legal system. so that has to change and -- and
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then we have to be able to imagine new kinds of political relationships like what is our political -- if we are not domestically dependent nations, what is our political relationship to the united states and, you know, we are in the beginning stages of answering those questions in the international arena and we have the declaration of indigenous rights and indigenous people as a start, as we know it's only aspirational, it has no -- toothless kind of not even a treaty but, you know, right now what's happening in the united states that is that -- it's being elevated, the conversation is being elevated to the un general assembly who is trying -- is working with indigenous people to work with a way in the
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un general assembly, how can indigenous people actually have representation because we don't, we don't have representation. and also how to implement -- we have a declaration that's almost ten years, there's no way to implement it or to monitor how it's implemented. there's no nothing. you know, it can write reports, you know, all the violations that happened around the world all of the time but there's no way to monitor how it's implemented so, you know, it's all these different anglings of ways that it has to be addressed and i don't think there's any real answers or anything. >> i think i'm more optimistic than what was your name? [inaudible] >> i think i'm more optimistic than you are on time scale. as a historian and a pretty old person and seeing -- [laughter] >> seeing time go by itself and
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witnessing, you know, like wounded knee and alcatraz and the civil rights movement in the south, remember at that time african americans were not allowed to vote. i mean, that's pretty bottom line to start from that -- that's a pretty -- i mean, it's only one of the many things of segregation, but native americans got citizenship in 14948 without asking for it. i mean, it was bestowed but, you know, i was really inspired by lee, navajo scholar here at u&m. >> and in the audience. >> maybe we will ask him to explain himself. [laughter] >> i will give you a hint of what i'm talking about and i really want you to think -- thank you for coming


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