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tv   Forum Examines Threat Posed by Islamist Extremism  CSPAN  June 17, 2017 1:22am-2:59am EDT

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those you do not have the benefit of a college education like harry truman and the presidency so history matters. [inaudible conversations]
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>> good afternoon i direct the program on counterterrorism and intelligence yet the institute i am pleased to welcome you to the latest in a lecture series. today we will discuss islamic terrorism in the west and we have a fantastic panel. serving as a nationalsecurity counterterrorism in the netherlands for this possibility for crisis management to briefly served as the director general with the road map and information sharing.fraser-r
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so by my two friends and colleagues the new executive director for north americaintern the counter extremism group spending several years in government service in the counterterrorism center and the department of land security finalizing his ph.d. at howard focusing and muslim communities in the west and congratulations on 70 your dissertation this morning. [applause] we go back quite a ways we go back to graduate school together and can tell stories. shd author and strategist during the obamast
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administration new the first-ever special representative to serve at the state department in other capacities and also the national security council with the bush administration and i am very pleased and honored to be sharing the podium with the three of you. so the podium is yours also i forgot leading by example if you could shut off your phone as i do the same.ou >> ladies and gentleman we have seen brutal attacksagain tw paris and berlin and stockholm and again two weeks ago in london even in
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a the states has seen attacks as well. the what we see is how the tax deferred -- how they are different solos are organized from outside the country those inspired by social media but the attack is one crucial sector the attackers want to create fear and intimidate ordinary people. to prevent them from going to ring nightclub where those in manchester from s going to a concert or from taking a subway or bus to work.
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to prevent people from living their lives in undermining the democratic and open society for girlrroriss and a dutch researcher used the word theater as a metaphor as the theater of your terrorist want attention regardless of the time and place creating fear . it remains the same but the plea is different to effectively intervene means knowing those communities they grew up in or those organizations we have to know the web site and social media that is used to
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influence and also understanding the radiology is the sectarian version and work together locally, nationally and cyberand in real life and across the border as the coordinator for counterterrorism why have they not still been hit by any attack? our local community programs as successful? ladies and gentleman yes they are. the terrorist threat facing the netherlands resembles western europe this is real.and as in any other country in the western world that is
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why the threat level is sets ime for our five so that means the attack is immediate at number five. therefore it is ) or a bite to emphasize this imbalance with the countries that surround us in belgium and france in the u.k. to stop terrorists do counter bremen extremism is key we take thepp approach that includes prevention with the approachiti. that includes reaching out to local communities and partners so even his or her
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nationality. and to go into more detail about the current threat in europe and we're faced with a complex decision more than ever before we have to dealre with different kinds of terrorist. sundews simple modus operandi reassess the threat to isis is a key threat to the west. also al qaeda remains capable with its intent to commit to western targets
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abroad. to see an increase in the right wing extremism. so the tension in our society is growing. as mentioned before the threat level means there are no specific indications that the attacks once again show us the work does not stop at national borders. often by plane or train or car. so with those networks are residing in other countries which are key run estimated fighters of 750 million
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people. but we also see homegrown t terrorists to state or plan or carry out terrorist attacks. one of the biggest paradox well isis lose territory it does not diminish the correct it is sustainable. now that it is losing ground so to move to another conflict areas but for the netherlands a realistic scenario the project is even devolving getting more
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complex we also see isis getting more professional to reduce social media white twitter and with the help of those same platforms we're able to reduce propaganda on the internet. they move to the more darker spaces but also communicating tools making it harder for children to eall prey. facing these challenges powdery counter extremism?
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we decided on a number of strategic principles but our approach is threat they stand comprehensive. to recognize the networks and individuals so i will elaborate that comprehensiveness with those measures but will start with prevention of with countering violent extremism.. people and youngsters become terrorist in the internet with their own neighborhoods.e of that is key to combating politicalization..
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that communities are important partners and with the recent policy note to disagree with us. that in order to defeat the ideology the local community is key proposal in the case of the netherlands so he or she is on the case management team. so they share information with those of the joint terrorist organization.nal concr depending on those characteristics with the association of mental healthsuc
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to join the case management team those tailor-made intervention to wait at the individual level they can decide to get some extra support and the case of miners are youngsters individ depending on the case to go under care of though local authority. to initiate the process that there is a contact to begin. i just mentioned in the recent years to implement separate measures to combat terrorism her recently to expand those governmentt powers to combat terrorism.beco
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but in the interest of national security and the case of nationality is the duty to report or have higher expectations. this can be enforced and also with those set measures we can take. they will be persecuted and at the same time will theyat continue his or her fight to plan the attack? theyhe decided which interventions are best suited.
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some good function as the alternative mentioning their reporting to the where restraining order ready cannot persecute someone with those authorities. let me make one more point. the importance of communication. we believe to make the public more aware that if they're more capable of dealing with the news thatre we are aware the recentlyic gave an election that one of
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the students asked regarding -- she was ready to have a freat day with their friends but could to stay at home for security reasons.al in the answer to her questionen she was the national coordinator of security and counterterrorism i want to be as open as possible. to be realistic and create a mindset. so we cannot guarantee an attack will not happen.erything we do not want people to be paranoid but we do not want
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them to be naive. ladies and gentlemen, let me conclude it started about the attacks that the governments had to endure. from washington d.c. to come in contact and they might be inspired through the internet. we need to get ahead of the curve is a to change those best practices and not be n alarmed. thank you very much. [applause]thank yo >>. >> good afternoon i will
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make a few remarks so first and foremost, stood to work with these complex issues and it also wanted to do highlight the role from north america as the executive director with counter extremism. and that was highlighted the front to be in the field and now have gone down in thein western democracies in the u.k. and elsewhere so starting with a few
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overarching points i would say like my colleague learning more than ever to seen that evolution to have i impact terrorism so now with the emergence supporting drugs to increase the battlefield resilience. it is important to look at the research and literature having on the west itself continuing to provide terrence based research according to the few research center those that earn less than $30,000 per year they demystified those
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stereotypes that 45 percent or pore or working-class and it conflicts that the muslim community so with the minority and those to be radicalized or are there other factors to be involved? we do want to conflate violent extremism as myself i a of observing ramadan from syria and egypt i can see firsthand to
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describe the threat we're talking about. the definition purposes that islam is a world view. it is the brief practice from those to come to the u.s. and those who arrived in georgetown. so there is a legacy of american muslims.irst so islamism is the ideology that is narrow and rigid this has modern manifestations throughout the world and the group's very in with more brutal terrorist organizations that
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could lead down the path of extremism like al qaeda and isis.etitor,, that islamic ideology is the optic point but it combined with theology combines and creates g. todd --- g autism for gore that emerging bodyy of academic literature to justify the legitimate interpretation of his long. >>. >> and ultra conservative isni a. event nefarious to hold that
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rhetoric. in the fallacy of the agenda so we have to be very clear so that a reference i will not bore you on that but that is a core belief to go down this path. so one of two coreme principles so without monotheism to be corrupted so this is a concept for an
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idea which remove that application of is on.e of two so there is a concept ofif those at the pool complex and other individuals as well so with that pushed back of that dichotomy i say all of this to say to engaged at population the to create that islamic state
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with the myth of the muslim world and then with the new adherents to their causes so what can be done?. >> to isolate that ideologyt wem in to change the narrative. sue those practicing muslims to see the issue has cancer itself to challenge those narratives and as misogynist dick as they are in most democracies cannot be fan based. to fight that ideology you
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do not need to be black to fight racism it to be done with a dialogue with the f shared values in these societies working on critical thinking programs and so to work in particular that they're not just coming to be disenfranchised but coming from the potomac. then the response has to become a belated. that that connecticut's activity in that strategy has to be employed. [applause]
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>> good afternoon.i ment they give for the opportunity to talk the end of particular the work you were doing around counterterrorism.i'd li and i say that in particular because it will be very blunt today.ere and the work for both president bush and president obama was honored to serve my country but i want to tell you frankly in 2017 i have done a law of reflecting where we have come down for we have come and why we're still
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dealing with those same issues over and over. it is far bigger than isis. i want to be very specific. groups like isis are recruiting young muslim kidsi all over the world as a special representative i traveled to nearly 100 come -- countries this is an educated crowd so i want to be clear about that but today's conversation very provocative that it is called upon to act as a first-line the defenseolent against violent ideology. so we're thinking of where
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we are this moment in time and when we actually began to counter that ideology of extremism. so that is the first point. so local solutions are the answer and government has a very limited role with those like minded thinkers so that we are saturating the market place. to counter ideas of alternative ideas we also know government money was not enough then and certainly not enough now to help those ngos who are at
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the front line at the washington institute. so how could it be a decade has passed and we knew what we knew then and nothing is happening now? we haveho failed pro-government in civil society has failed we're dealing with a very dangerous situation. in 2017 there 1 billion yen people who are muslim under a the age of 30 per girl 1. 6 billion people in one fourth of humanity for pro that is the pool from which groups like isis recruit. in the year 2013 there will be 2.2 billion muslims and if we don't get our act together to go all into developing a way to deal with the ideology spread around the world we will have this conversation talking about what we did not do.
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so to deploy those to a distinguishing features. and it is not enough to have these little programs around the world to say look at what we are doing. isn't this wonderful? so second, look at what is coming. but i want you to remember is they're getting radicalize steady under ageard m that people tend to believe the problem we're facing is something that government needs to deal with so it isn't just government we'll
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never get to where we need to be better citizens as well. so as we think about the young bird generation.ll. so to puncture the idea of us verses' them? a human mind is not mature until it is 24 years old if the brain does not richer than we doing to the younger generation to help them understand what is happening around them? we must make sure his parents and teachers and civil society we do not allow that ideology of us versus them with their our nation states' pushing for wordhat spac ideology building of fertile ground that the taliban or
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isis or boko haram can sprout as we have conversations of flu is doing what through extremism that united states can gets serious about what we know of the spread of ideology and why so that for decadeshicha worth the effort and we have to get real so what we knoww very quickly as i have been thinking about this issue in a sobering where i have the book coming out called how we win because i am optimistic.
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there is a way for bird did you sit here in the -- chanting what will we do i know these solutions are available and affordable. but why aren't we? looking for a the footprint i would like to see every calibration of the money needed. so this case to do more and it is our turn and our timeill o if government doesn't put the money in than we need to put the money in so we cans build the scale and focus on the goal those young people i coming forward and finally
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and with the strategy's.finally in to talk more broadly of that strategy and that cannot happen with just hard power that with hard and soft power we need to go all in. i would argue we have not tried that needs to be kinetic and it needs to be real because if you turn us away than they are already winning. [applause]anothe
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>> i want to draw your attention to islamic terrorism of the west. there is a real difference one referring to the religion of india there is the ideology so maybe even a of a better term of that terrorism situation that is the edgy hottest terrorism. with 142 victims and in 2016
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and those attacks were reported but specifically as what was described as jihadist so we need to take a step back at the beginning at the end of the islamic state and to recognize from the islamic state that threat is only from the islamic state. and then into all of the comings and goings of the best intelligence there is never one to 2 percent but
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then to grapple with these documents to get back into the country. >> those who are already returning to europe in particular and with those sophisticated documents. so while we don't have the same type of problems it isout a total of around 300 people who have gone or attempted and failed to go it is not completely separate over the next five tenures to of several hundred people released from jail who have served time and we don't
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have countering violence extremism programs or we don't have those programs built into the probationary system to reintegrate into society. . .
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extremism is available for everybody at washington institute at work. i highly recommend all of you downloaded. this is a bipartisan study, as a nonpartisan institute. whoever next occupies the white house, we will be able to walk in with thoughtful ideas that are not partisan in nature about difficult problems. we did that about a variety of things. we did a whole series and in this particular instance, on how to get ahead of the radicalization curves specifically here in the united states. i think it's important to mention that the tools we think are most effective are effective against a wide range of ideological we based extremists from the far left which is a
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real threat to the far right whether it's religious or not religious. to the extent that we can, not change our perspective but complement that law enforcement and intelligence, that security effort, complement with the public health approach that is not just whole of government but whole of society that takes us as local as possible using local government, state government and people were living in the neighborhoods where this is happening. if radicalization is happening , it's not happening in officials in washington d.c. it's happening in neighborhoods. the people best equipped to deal with it are people who are working in those neighborhoods. she is absolutely right. those programs are not working
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at capacity and that's because they are being funded. >> there are all kinds of politics about where they're going to go and there are questions as to whether or not the cbe grants out of the department of homeland security are going to be continued or not and i would argue that interesting but it misses the point. the grant program was a drop in the bucket. it shouldn't be something that is federal government driven. this is something that affects everyone of us and has to be bottom-up not top-down. i want to also underscore something that mohammed touched on. i think this is exceptionally important to understand. time and again we find out, whether it's here in the united states, think of the boston
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marathon bombing, think of garland texas, think of orlando florida, we found out people who ended up doing horrible heinous things were at one level or another of local law-enforcement law-enforcement. omar mateen had been investigated and at the end of the day the fbi and others said there's no illegal activity. we don't want to change that threshold. we do not want to criminalize thought, but there are two things we absolutely must do. first, not as fbi, but our society when we must contest dangerous thought. just because some thought is not illegal, it doesn't mean it should be allowed to be the last word. think of smoking. it's not illegal but as a society we spend a lot of money, time and effort trying to
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convince kids it's not as cool as you think and pushing back against smoking. the other thing we have to do, because law-enforcement needs it, is build local networks of these criminal social workers and others that can partner and have connected tissue to the law-enforcement so when the next omar mateen or whatever his or her name will be, and there will be, individual comes along in the fbi investigates them and says disturbing, but not illegal behavior so there is then some group, some network or expert to whom the fbi can hand off the case. this person needs help. when you have someone like omar mateen who is randomly saying he thanks a lot of lebanese and al qaeda an islamic state, not knowing or caring that all three
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of those groups despise each other and are fighting with each other, that is someone who needs help of some sort. we have to complement the necessary law-enforcement activity that is always what we will do to prevent terrorism because sometimes we find out about things when there is no legal threshold to throw someone in jail and something needs to happen. the good news is we have these tools. we been contending with violent gangs and all kinds of others for a long time. that's not exactly the same as islamic terrorists ideology, but when you have kids who, for one reason or another are open to dangerous ideas and behaviors, we know how to deal with that. the differences, we invested in
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counter gang activities, and despite all the hoopla and saying things that does nothing more than scare the public, we have not had a commencement investment in these efforts. i think we should listen closely to what our guest speaker from the netherlands said in his final point which is, don't be afraid. when i speak around the country, people always say fine, but what should i do? the answer is get involved. that involvement should include your wallet. we have to create means through which people can get involved. we have ngos that are doing things. we need to create means to finance their activities. there are a lot more ideas and i invite you to explore them. i'd like to open it up to your questions for the time that remain and we will get to as many of them as possible. thank you all for coming. [applause] >> thank you all for your very
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insightful comments. i would like to pick up on the idea that we want to destroy the us and of them and the thought from the first speaker that the objective of terrace is to create fear from attending events and the like. it seems to me there's also a political component to the creation of fear and they are seeking to push society toward strongmen, whether that's on the right or the left and have a real political impact. my question is, i totally accept the notion that you need local involvement, but how do you counteract the us and the them if on a national scale you have people who are very significant figures, whether holding office or not, who are vilifying
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muslims in one context or another and making it very difficult for young people to associate with the constructive forces in society while that is taking place. >> i was thinking through how to say this in a very diplomatic way. when i was special representative and i traveled around the world on behalf of our country, i would get questions all the time about what our congressman said, what our president said. the so it happen all the time. i would hear questions that would surprise me. i was in cambodia talking to young individuals and it was a remote location and a young person asked me, if the preacher
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in gainesville florida who was going to burn across represented america. many of you may member this, he had 50 people in his church and we dismissed him because we knew he had 50 people in his church and he didn't represent all of america. i'm not going to mention his name, but they asked about him by name. i say that because you're absolutely right. words do matter. our actions matter. the us versus them is not talked about. how we use language, i have been very specific in a language i have used when i was in government and outside of it. i never talk about it. my question is if you're gonna look at how do you puncture that us and them, it's everything from the very basic things that a child learns inside their
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home, all the way through what they're seeing and hearing in their schools and even the framing of how you think about things. if you talk about americans and say americans are muslims and don't recognize the fact that when you do that you have already created an us and them, it sounds super cute doesn't it. those words matter. when you move up the chain and you get to a place where people are on our tv screens and their connecting all over the world, the way to debunk it is if there are more people around that young person were actually able to puncture the us and them than just the strongest voice that's out there. that to me is going to the heart of what we need to be doing.
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>> my question is for dick. in the last couple of years as europe has been returning foreign fighters in others who have gone to syria and iraq to join isis, some of the countries, because of their interpretation of eu civil liberties and international law have been unwilling were not interested to opposed joining isis. their approach has been to look at the people returning and force an investigation. the netherlands has taken that path. can you tell us about the status and how much they are criminalizing and how they are dealing with the problem of return fighters. >> i am very glad you asked this
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question because i think in europe, a lot of things have changed. we have learned our lessons. most of the countries do criminalize it as a terrace organization and not actually we can be in isis territory but being there is proof that you joined a terrace organization. all foreign fighters have been listed in a criminal system. 89% of them are listed. if we detect them, they're capable of checking immediately if they are in the system. that grows every month. it's very difficult to get good proof. there are a lot of investigations going on that have the information. that is one of the things that
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they are working on how to use this, can we obtain the intelligence and obtain the information and make it available. that would increase our efforts and those of the prosecution will. will. [inaudible]
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>> you did that very, very well. if we could have a microphone appear. >> i melton from the university of gerald ford. i want to thank the institute. it's the first time i've been here but i've been using your stuff for the past ten years. i'm a former diplomat and i look for sources and this turns out to be one of the best ones in terms of written material on the web. thank you very much. i have heard and listened carefully and i've heard about clinical social workers and i've heard about society and government is not the answer. i would like you to talk a little bit about how could
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leadership be stimulated within the muslim community because i think if we think of credibility, from what i've read i've read things like inspire, the online journal of al qaeda. it's out there for anyone if you're not afraid that the fbi will come out there if you read this stuff. how do you do that. is there a martin luther king that could be used as a leader, is there someone willing to stand up? everyone's allow we see editorials but particularly mohammed, i know you're involved in this. where is the leadership coming from. what is the answer to leadership within the muslim community. >> that's the million-dollar question. so, i think we can say out loud that the muslim community , there is no central authority in
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the muslim world. there is no pope equivalent. there are sexual -- secular, there are ones who just have one life, there are muslims who are gay and black and arab. we need to amplify the choice. there are multiple muslim communities and identities that represent multiple expressions of what it means to be muslim. i would argue in my historian hat that this was part of the very inception of islam from the very beginning. when the taxes were flowing in, whether you are in damascus or the other. , the money was flowing in and there was a wealth of expression of what it means to be muslim. when they were restricted that's not to say conservativism is bad bad. i grew up in south carolina so i guess i can make that
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connection. there are some better speaking out. we have seen american muslim leaders that have been placed on the hit list. when they do speak out there not credible. when they speak out their voices are marginalized or they didn't study in our universities and they don't do islam the way we wanted to be done. i think what has to be done and emerge that it needs to come organically from the community and there has to be partnerships across the world and quite frankly, i think the western muslim experience, whether you are in the uk or belgium will serve as an example for those in the muslim arab world. those democratic liberal values, the respect of opinion , the respect, whatever expression you are, that can show how they work
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in concert with one another. i focus my on line. the encryption as well as the social media.
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whoever wanted to at this college in question. encryption is the bane of our existence. whether it is telegram were others. they have been leading rather than the us.what about this as starting the ball rolling. we are at war and everybody come all of these experts that claim first amendment rights do not really care until someone who they know is killed by the terrorist attack. but what about banning these? the number two, the united states government has been extraordinarily weak in holding silicon valley accountable for videos and are insightful and inspiring radicalization. today i completed a youtube video that was posted yesterday training people how to develop a suicide vest.
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it is on my website, it was a youtube video. it shows you that no matter what has happened, silicon valley is so far behind trying to in effect, combat online extremism. i wonder if any of you have to comment on that? >> i will not forget encryption. the government has a less specific opinion about encryption. it means we do not been encryption. and even in the european countries because we think that in the end, the freedom of speech is more important and have vectors that can be used by everyone. having said so, we have intelligence to break down codes. so that is the other way around. that is for encryption.
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we have a lot of different opinions when it comes to social media and is also a little different than the united states. the last few days we talked about this issue as well. we think that specifically most of the social media should be a lot more pressure in these companies to remove malicious content. and that we have the so-called - units. the uk started off. and what you want to remove the content and also make clear to the companies that they should remove them themselves. so there we went to have real action. and the - has regular discussions with the internet companies, so-called internet forms and again we say we got a little bit further but there
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has to be more action on the internet and of course, there is a dilemma again. about freedom of speech. we can clearly define what we do not want to have. and if hate speech, it is very clear it is not religion, not ideological. it is about hate, violence, you do not want that on the internet. >> if i can just say something quick to piggyback on facebook. it will be brief. we saw about a month ago they carried out a murder live on facebook live. it is only a matter of life that we will see terrorist attack being done live on facebook live or another platform. so i do not disagree with you. as it relates back around, what happens after we take away transport we see the organization created with
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individuals that are sophisticated with communications as well. my thing is if you take it down what happens next? another one pops back up. then we have to come back up with some approach as well for that. >> right here please. >> thank you. i am retired from the us foreign service. i like to follow up on remarks about multiplicity of muslim communities around the world. i wonder why i have not heard of, let me know if they do exist, voices or authoritative voices from whatever muslim community in western europe, the us or the arab world. saying that these people, these people who promote jihad is important islamic inspired terrorism are selling a
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religion. and dragging this through the mud. they do not represent anything authoritative enough to outweigh the influence of local preachers. in fact may be saying the opposite. >> that is the question i have heard so often. i cannot even tell you. right after 9/11 we all believed, could we just get more muslims who are the right kind of muslims to say the right thing? kids will listen to them and everything will be fine. do you think catholic kids wake up everyday and ask what the pope is doing and fell exactly what the pope is doing? no, they do not. to your point, there is no quote - muslim pope which means going back to what i was saying, it is young people that we are looking at. you are talking about the online space. kids are smarter than that. there is no silver bullet. things don't just happen in the online space that don't happen on the off-line space. it is a connected sphere we are looking at. sarah, what i will say is the
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good news is that when 9/11 happened and we were looking for the voices to actually come out there, it began a process in which we began to build. by the time i left the state department, i know because it's on the list. thousands of names of efforts and individuals and bodies around the world that did the right thing. we fought, it is trevor other universities said something then surely everyone would put down their arms. maybe it was that the organization at the islamic conference to say something. maybe they would query they would, they wouldn't. i could go through the whole thing. the us tends to have the idea that if we just did this everything would be fine. the answer sir, is not that. there are tens of thousands of muslim voices around the world and bodies. that have stated that violence in the name of islam does not comply. yes, kids are still getting radicalized. and the reason why is because young kids who are searching for their identity, that is the
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singular commonality of young muslims have grown up after 9/11. we know sir, more muslims live outside in the middle east and in it. so it is not just about what happens in the arab world. it is what happens around the world. where young kids are navigating through their identity and face to face in the off-line space and in the online space with people that can move them in a direction that is not violent. >> in a mainstream against extremism is so important. the young people i deal with are going to the same issues. there young, muslim, can i go out and hang out or not? is this religious text valid for the contemporary time that we are living in? this sort of division between men and women, identity as we mentioned these struggles will have to collectively look at and quite frankly as well, is
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throughout the world. whether it is in the middle east or central asia. the emergence of the moss. young kids are not necessarily going there with their parents. so what happens when you're looking for these spaces to express yourselves because you're facing legitimacy and struggling with expression? and so, in many instances some of these movements offer that voice. they. >> guest: that expression. and so this is why you see some of them postmortem.he said they've been on drugs that they have never been to a mosque at all. for communities that have reported them as well. >> excellent. upfront here. >> i'm a former retired service officer. -- you are talking about how to appeal to a large number of people, mostly young about issues that they consider very important and positive. there responded to a positive
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by lynn paul in your talking about in the west by something we call cbe. counting violent extremism. which is not only very bureaucratic and boring, it is negative. don't we need a positive term for what we want, for you are all talking about? in order to make an appeal to this crowd who are appealing whether you think it is wrong or not.our responding to a positive appeal to them. >> will start off by first of all thank you for the question as a fellow recovering government bureaucrat i appreciate your perspective. physical cbe is the beltway inside the beltway government term we use. i don't know anyone looking at the rooms of some of you to do this in the field, that use this term.it is not like when you're out trying to engage, this is the term that you're using and it is only all negative.
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i would also say that is not always the case that people are responding to a siren positive call. in many instances especially as he moved earlier in the process where tools are the most effective, we are dealing with people where something is not going right in their lives. but they are attracted to is the positive direction, they are able to contribute to something bigger than themselves, etc. the fact that the people they are looking at are not the boring people who are giving answers that are not exciting but the really exciting people were telling you that whatever is happening to his part of a bigger picture, it is happening to people all over the world and you can use violence to - that is attracted to people that are trying to find an easy problem to -- easy solution to a difficult problem. -- there were foreign fighters go to syria already because
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they thought they were defending innocent syrian women and children from the chemicals and bombings and starvation. there is a piece of that and we have to address is on a case-by-case basis. it is interesting to note however, that for all of the cve and things were talking i think will have a very big problem even if we actually completely solve the islamic state problem tomorrow we will not. so long as the assad regime is still in power. >> yes, sir in the way. you have been nice and patient. let's get that man a microphone. >> you know the 18th century - came out of saudi arabia and massacred everyone. the jihad is and is very old. the ottoman empire put it down then. i am asking about all of the people were killed weekly by suicide bombers. they do not have that in the
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west. most of it happens in iraq, afghanistan and syria. and if we had a fully worldwide number, it might impress us to start treating suicide bombing as we treat chemical weapons. the first terror that we dealt with internationally. and perhaps that might be a good idea for suicide bombing. >> anybody? >> okay. the statement was heard. yes in the back my friend. >> thank you. one strategic point i would like to ask the panel about and maybe a more tactical point. radicalization is not new. my partner was shot by the ira. so radicalization has been going on a long time.
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when i review the videos of all of the suicide bombers that carry out the attacks they have a common denominator.they are saying they're getting revenge because the very title of this panel is islamism in the west or radicalism in the west. they all say we are now getting back at the west for what the west is doing in the islamic world. i think it is a common denominator in almost every video that comes out and something we probably need to look at in terms of why are we not getting the message out that, the wrong messages going on in terms of their radicalization. it is quite true that in the - bombings -- as a possible community engagement for the intelligence, that was one of the findings from. you have the panels on how
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they, do we need to look at ourselves and the message that we can estimate that a more positive message to these young people? in terms of how the west is engaging in the wider world. i think that is important and secondly i tactical point, i think matthew mentioned that almost all of the attackers we have seen both in the us and in europe have come under the attention of law enforcement. and that is actually true. what we are trying to look out is when they have been looked at as you well know, you cannot keep surveillance on every person that comes under your attention. that is an impossibility. but if there may have been we are seeing now, some triggers that brought these people back into carrying out radical attacks. they had been on the radar sometime previously. and wonder how the panel if you have any view on whether or not there is a trigger that raises
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people back to the attacks in london, manchester and indeed down to florida which was also he was refused a job. >> first of all i think we would agree that the common denominator, kicking back and forth is not a reason but an excuse. if you look into the motivation it is different. can different studies already made that is very difficult to get a good profile of radical or a fighter. but certainly when they are young. how they are for whatever reason distracted from their normal way of growing up. they do not have a criminality but they do later on. most of the time not even
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really -- i think it's important that we make the distinction very well. and also in my introduction i said is a preferred form of ideology. in a sectarian way of dealing with islam. i think you're right that it also goes back to the question of extremism. -- is negative. had to engage him again for what we stand for. and that is to be positive. but i think that nobody in our world today has found a resolution on how we can do that. certainly the government, we
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are the one they certainly don't trust. we have to make arrangements. with civil society. by locally. that's why it is very important. i think that again, it is difficult to say what is the trigger. and i think that most of law enforcement intentions, we know for sure that whenever there is again an attack probably he or she was on the list somewhere. people blame us for it. they are on the list why didn't you catch them? but it is very difficult even if you have interest in a person. even the slightest interest. to understand what is going on in their mind and if they really going on the path of violence and terrorism. and it is i think one of the biggest challenges that
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intelligent law enforcement has. and that's why they community policing, local engagement, local government is so important. that is why also all of this prevention and certainly at this point of view we feel very strongly getting this out and making the local government approach. the law enforcement. >> that was perfect. we need to have touch points out to people of interest. recognizing that because you are an person of interest -- because of the nature radicalization is such that we will call it the flash to bang, the time period in which a person cannot only get radicalized but mobilized has shrunk for months or weeks to hours or days. and it is nonstatic. you can have returning as a
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spider was interviewed and assessed by service they are not likely to do something. but they have been exposed to what they have been exposed to. and another set of events can happen around the world or to them locally in their life and they could be radicalized or re-radicalized or mobilized based on their pre-existing radicalization very quickly. law enforcement can't be surveillance in 24/7 but there has to be connective touch from society so that someone is there to notice a change in behavior.let's go here right now. >> washington curtis institute. his question is for you. i was wondering what comprehensive plans are you taking in the prisons themselves? and are you matthew, how with those, what would the differences be between the european-style prison that represents the demographics in an american person?
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>> first of all, we made a choice. that does for convicted on base of it has been a terrorism act we separate them. because we do not want to have his ideology spread around in the prisons. that is one of the biggest problems in europe or probably anywhere else in the world. having them in a specialized environment, we do have exit programs. we are developing them. sometimes we are successful, sometimes we are not. we have a support point in which we reach out to the families. those were radicalized, those who also are in prison.
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so we make sure that the family is kept to support.because most of the families they do not agree with their sons and daughters. >> i would just say that there's a lot of things that are common between us and european prison approaches. and they are something that are very different. the biggest issue is that the europeans, whether they have gone as far as the netherlands have or not and many have not, they are so far ahead of us on this issue. there is discussion and thought in beginning of programs that are being put together in the prisons within the department of justice, probation system. but it is a very early. i got a letter from an individual convicted of an al qaeda related offense. he is in a super max prison and the us asking if i would, if i have this individual because the individual does not want to be incarcerated together with the murderers and rapists and wants to be just with his fellow g hardees. and said maybe you can support
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me in this, not because you like me but because maybe you would agree that it would be better goes only with g hardees and i cannot radicalized others.it was a novel approach. [laughter] but there is much more we have to do here.over here on the left. >> my question is adjust to power. i was intrigued by your optimism that we can win the war on terrorism. many people have equated terrorism with - no government in the world has succeeded in winning the war against crime. no one has ever won the war. so how do you define winning the war against terrorism? >> is a fair question and i appreciate it. i did not say that winning the war on terrorism and i'm talking about dramatically decreasing the appeal of the ideology for the demographic that we know that groups like isis are trying to lure him.
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and that is measurable. and that is what i am talking about. and it, i want to say, i know that we are talking about the west generally and so obviously there are many countries that are part of that. but this audience is primarily americans let me tell you this. there are so few muslims in america first of all. we are a free society. we are one of the most innovative countries in the world. we have marketing and advertising and you name it specialists who understand how to take storylines and narratives and make sure you see it every single day. so whether you're going to buy something online or you're going to be persuaded to go to mcdonald's down the street, we know how to take an audience and move them in a particular way. how is it, that here in america with only 50 states, with all that we know that we have not
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gone all in? we have not said by the way, we are protecting america's youth. which is what we should be doing. >> from one other turn of that was a missed opportunity.the answer is, it's all in my book. >> is all in my book was you come by now, how we win. >> i will take three questions together.here and i will come over here and he will answer this together and wish everyone a good weekend. >> a quick question. i am a retired energy analyst. what about the role of undercover informants? as a means of detecting these youth before they become radicalized?effective are they? >> okay. let's give a microphone over here please. raise your hand. don't be bashful. thank you. >> has been a lot of criticism over the last several years
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about how european countries do not adequately share intelligence based on foreign fighters going to syria and them back. within the european or within the eu also with other countries like turkey, russia etc. how's that going? has it been improved? and was a catch these people come here in the us the average prison sentences 13.3 years. we sent a lot of people away for life. how is that working in europe as well? thank you. >> are less question and then we will answer all three. >> before i asked a question, i was raised in egypt and i have seen the culture there. in egypt we have this as well between injections. even they are to muslims but we have we versus them. the culture itself is more aggressive. the religious dialect a culture of practice. how can we as policymakers change that? because people by nature became religiously radicalized. so how can we change the
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dialect of religion in the middle east? >> all right. we will just go straight down and answer whatever parts of the three questions you would like. >> thank you. about undercover agents relating to the radicalism i think it will be a waste of resources. and much more important to transport the question of the eu, i have already touched on this. and i said and i will repeat it now, we have learned our lesson. so you can criticize the eu. you may criticize but we in the last two years tremendously improve our information through law enforcement, the counterterrorism group, intelligence in europe. through the failing of the system.
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so by creating a pnr system will be implemented in 2018. whenever they are, we share the information and redo everything. and one last remark. >> of course. >> because in say let us be alerted, not alarmed. it is communication to the public but the colleagues in the intelligence and law enforcement and local authorities etc., i have a different message. and i repeat this all the time. it is that we have to be alert and you have to be alarmed. but specifically we have to be as sharp as a needle. you have to be agile and vigilant to try to protect our country and sake of our national security.
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>> thank you. >> i would just say i think it is important question you're asking in a kind of address part of it in my comments about what policymakers need to do. and everything that we do. and everything that we do and everything that we say, the diversity of communities matters. anything specifically to the united states government, we cannot set things up like islam, sunni versus shiite. we have to make people that are around the table are of all kinds of diverse pieces of the religion and how they practice it. and it is everything from the most formal things that we do to the most informal. and i will leave you with this because it is the month of ramadan. i remember when i was in the bush administration. and it had been the tradition of the united states president to host the breaking of the fast event in the white house every year.
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and at one point during the bush administration, the president invited guests to the white house for the - is attrition, it had been to only invite arab ambassadors to come break the fast. as if everything muslim was arab. president bush invited the entire room was made up of civil society but also the ambassadorial court and specifically, european ambassadors. that were invited to come because they had muslims in their countries. and the rationale was, it does not matter if you are in a muslim majority country or you are a muslim living as a minority, we are respecting you. and i think that kind of very particular attention to detail is a message that can be sent. >> i will just say i think that you use all aspects of soft and
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hard power it is vital as a former intel officer. and to the point in egypt i'm a third-generation african-american was in the south. though i enjoy -, baklava, my red rice and fish that my mom makes from charleston south carolina. my grandparents converted to islam in the 40s. jazz musicians. nowhere in any western democracy do you have an indigenous muslim community with the african-american community. to muslim congressmen.keith ellison, andre carson, those are incredible voices that are soft, that have been part of the fabric from the very beginning of society. >> i will just concluded saying on the edge of the undercover informants, i would be very very careful to make two points. one, you can only do that in some circumstances one because of resources and then you do
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not want to see violating portions of the law. but you know your efforts in the community public health and public safety and ultimately countering extremist ideas to be seen as being a covert. and that is concerned with the pushback. the best way is to make sure we are very clear and careful with ourselves. because were not spying on community unless there is true predicate for some type of a crime. on the issue of european intelligence sharing i'm going to refuse to answer simply by also reminding those who have not yet seen their inboxes that a week from today at this podium, we will be hosting the eu's counterterrorism coordinator for a event just like this one. and that will be your opportunity for us to inquire about all things eu counterterrorism next week from 1 to 3. i think you are all able to participate with us in
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person, all of you in the c-span world, and lifestream world. have a good weekend. thank you very much.
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and former fbi director james companies -- james comey's testimony. >> people in different parts of the world you can study the map.
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