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tv   Discussion Focuses on Crisis in South Sudan  CSPAN  July 1, 2017 1:19am-2:23am EDT

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that bin brothels in eastern europe and southeast asia. they don't harbor terrorists as a matter of state policy and as democracies don't fight each other . >> areas we watched the last of the few of the brave commission i see familiar faces we will get started
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today. first of all, who i want to note that this event and future ones are under a new initiative on diversity and national security to bring different perspectives and voices and representationre the reflexology united states in foreign affairs. today we have with us three fellows. one could not make it of a program which kick startede fel this series here of the international career program a marvelous its unique program out of aspen which has formed a the careers of
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many foreign affairs experts including some of those at the table and takes to over the 470 fellows we have begun this program but it is not limited to them but it includes others did you will see in a series of different events new discussions of foreign affairs. assoave a new twitter feet which we using so travis will moderate and without further ado i turn that over to him. [applause] so a huge stakes with us the
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live negative and they asked for orchestrate our gathering as well.hestra one administrative note we will be taking questions so if you would like to havero one major hand now even before the queue when day starts to ask questions and so we will get straight to the heart of the matter.discussi so with south sudan anwr and famine collide it is a complicated situation with a convoluted history of the attempts to resolve those issues but one of the things
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i want to start by pointing a teis we have a tendency based on when we began to engage so july 9, 2011, to a 2005 but if you were to sit down so with the art of the struggle of south ascidian that is a 200 years' struggle.o that starts and by those egyptians were the british colonial powers and with the independence government.ing that
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and anybody who rules that region has one central principle in mind there is a region in the south of south sudan the only reason for that extraction and with those resources is not to bere cultivated or integrated were to be isolated and not to be developed. that is the beginning of the struggle to make that uphill race. solo those successive governments to make that very clear so one of the things specifically in this civil war verses' the south
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obviously that day designated something thatth they termed in arabic thatar. means more to say they were giving themselves a religious justification to freely plunder and decimate the area for themselves and one of the things that we hear about sudan is a religious justification and ethnic and racial justifications but this ist allt the greed and lust for power and resources in that country and in that region but that sad irony is thatoments even though they sacrificed
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the life and founded the sudanese people's liberation army sudan is once again war. part of war so it essentially that is a conflict that is a contest for wealth and power but not for the development horror cultivation of the people of that nation and this reminded me of the african proverb that states with the elephants fight it is the grass that suffers and i thought it would be good for us to take that symbolic metaphor to look at who are the symbolic elephants and what their actions mean for the suffering of the people at the bottom of the conflict and have long been ignored in this process and i know many of you are
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experts giving great service to ameliorate the suffering of those people. sova to get this into our panel i want to go to ashley he will give us a readouthley q about the human toll of the conflict of where we are right now. >> thanks for organizing desperate or want to pick up pi on how travis' framed this to emphasize we're in the middle of a humanitarian catastrophe but it is more than a political problem or political crisis. normally it a system of governance have rules how competition will take placee cop where people agree on the rules of the framework they don't have that type of consensus is in south sudan but instead leaders that go outside of the peaceful
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rules to pursue their political objectives through violence.that i so that is a humanitarian crisis but rooted in this political crisis. but just to frame the humanitarian peas to. to the people have fled the country with 2 million morepe and 2800 people continuing to flee the country every day. that is about one out of three that are displaced from their homes right now. by july we estimate 6 million people are in need or will face life-threatening honker and 7.five will be homeless out
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large but to put that into context six -- this is a massive impact on the population in displacement so although we were pleased that they are declared famine free we need to remember the security t situation remains dire and deteriorated across the country. u.s. aid is helping to lead a government response to the humanitarian catastrophe west have been working aggressively to save as many lives as possible with our partners will be florida declaration and we will continue to do so 1.3 million people each month with lifesaving
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assistance. but this is a difficult and dangerous undertaking. there have been numerous and deliver it and brazen workers in south sudan and those aid workers have been killed since 2013 and 17 of those 84 was a big share a long since junior berry that makes south sudan the most deadly place in the world for humanitarian workers to operate. that is shocking if you think of conflicts all over the globe like yemen and iraq and syria. so aside from these willful attacks the year also facing
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the direct instruction and intervention of the government imposing a bureaucratic impediment thatim inhibit the actors to do access the people that need their assistance.. it is a range from imposing worker permit fees and registration fees had dramatically increase the cost and then we see direct attention and harassment and egregious acts to deter a the delivery that will save the lives of the people of this country and the government is taking these actions to prevent this life-saving assistance is unconscionable and the u.s. government expects that the assistance will reach the
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people that will need it the most in we're doing all we can to convince all parties to allow the humanitarian actors to function without restriction and finally about that human cost, there is a u.n. survey done in 2015 with protection of the theslian sites that about 130,000 are displaced and what they are sheltering it was reported over 70 percent of women have been raped since the conflict began.eing rp this is a weapon or a strategy of four a mass atrocity crime largely perpetrated by soldiers and
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police there has been complete impunity for these actions and we can anticipate as long as that conflict continues we will see those strategies realized i feel i am often in the doom and gloom and place in these discussions but as united states we will continue to provide assistance other assistance we are providing is critical it is merely a drop in the bucket if you look at the scope and scale of humanitarian needs. and ultimately this is a political crisis with a political solution and until the parties are willing to
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decide this strategy of war is too high a cost for their brothers and sisters horror until they decide we will continue to have these humanitarian needs. >> having looking at the courage assured thought it would make sense to follow that up to get an honest perspective from a former senior officials who has worked extensively on africa to talk about where we are with u.s. engagement whether we have policies in place where we are in the country at this time and also to think about regional actors actors, alienated nation'sations -- united nations and others ..
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now i turn it over. >> i a spent a long time in the u.s. government working on sudan and then vetted and the neighboring countries and have a lot of sympathy and appreciation for the work that a lot of those hard-working people in government are doing right now to ensure that what we see is a depressing lack of attention on a very important crisis as a continues to flow of people make sure they are advocating for continued assistance to the people of south sudan in the face of what is going on with their government. so with that south sudan isn't just a crisis of political leaders but it is
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also a crisis of leadership and that is pretty dramatic united states knows the game versos credit for milestones from the signing of a comprehensive peace agreement in 2005 to the declaration of independence. we know over decades we have seen church leaders in the united states and people from the right and left to t support those to make it a cause is. so what we see now with the lack of attention is depressing with the idea to abdicate the role of the historic leadership to say it is only theas responsibility of the parties on the ground is
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something we should challenge actively the specially for in the room working on these issues. next, not just the united states but the united nations with the biggest peacekeeping force on the planet and we also have the african union. the most dangerous place in the world famine, civil war viet these bodies and institutions whose main job it is to make sure they are intervening appropriately calling countries and leaders and individuals with the wrongs they are committing have basically also step back to say we will provide assistance or protection but because of the issues of sovereignty or
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complexities we are stepping back so we see waiting people to take action. so when we look at humanitarian workers to be detained and obstructed that is considered a human rights violation but yet it is noton. the language reuse we have not seen the african union haven do more than condemn or to say these are crimes against humanity. there have been many investigations but there was one report we talked aboutab ethnic cleansing and reached that point where we need to go little further. seeing with the neighboring countries is the idea they are accepting refugees so
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uganda is an amazing recipient but they have been a major problem when you talk about coming to a resolution of the crisis. so on the one hand we can gauge to except people to deal with the of all of the problem that nobody is stepping up to take on the root cause of why the crisishe continues and until that happens we know the suffering will get worse in the neighboring communities. so one of the challenges is to figure out at what point do we push for word a aggressively. we have let this go on over four years now the last one was 20 years. maybe this is the time to say enough is enough to take
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a more concerted action to make sure the people who aree responsible for these atrocities are brought to justice. >> linda gave us an overview of the bilateral engagement in the region and south sudan specifically air want to turn to steve who is joining sbf satellite not technically that i will refer to it like that. so given your background with peacekeeping in the south sudan could you talk to us about the challenges you have seen and the issues or the challenges of the protection of civilians and then a little bit from your perspective the nexus between what the mission is
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trying to do and how could that be hindered by those issues of governance of south sudan?. >> i think i could go off my nose to address most of that's but i will read in the interest of time otherwise i will go astray and i and the stand we have limited time.want so first base also the center for strategic of international studies also to be ambassador with the national security project. and also just in terms of
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what i will say that thesee are my views but not those of the un or by previous employers. i will share my thoughts on my experiences in sudan and the 2010 negative election. during part of this period to focus on that referendum i think it is important to lookit this period and hopefully this will contribute to the understanding to the steps that will be taken during a civil war so i think of what has already been discussed on the panel and from becoming too south sudan during that time there was a lot there so it challenges
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that situation on the ground . so looking at the sudanese national election so that was the leadership of south sudan to use violence even while participating in the democratic process it was immediately clear there was the deep division that predated that period that contributed to the violence. during the elections they made sure their preferred candidates won many candidates were detained or beaten as the soldiers routed to the polling stations even soldiers with the gubernatorial race after
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it was clear the candidate was backed by the of leadership and lost. so the military was moving soldiers from one region to another so of to be sure the candidate would lose many people were observing there were attempts to secure the election i figure was more for the position of the future but during that period that rating contributed between the local civilian villagers. a rite of passage in some cultures but in the period i was there that was lost as the military commanders had another act to exerton control.
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we had mobile technology but women and children were taken because on average it was ted or 20 people and often times much more than that. those were not well supported and may be living off of me and to put them in direct conflict with the cohers. so in some parts those moves to secure the territory in some parts of the country were moving. but what i observed that nothing happened it isolation those coordinated and intentional it used to increase territorial control
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and to intimidate journalist ind in even the u.n. staff there was an issue where the rights of united nations was arrested and beaten in jail than the rest of the false charges.r coun that is important to know is retests this that the head of the human-rights of un was intimidated so that says a lot of thought was going on many of the violence taking place since establishing control friends and colleagues were concerned that the expansion into other areas seemingly in support of the large militia groups some shared concerns that it that
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violence would lead to war violc but dad says we were running into the referendum period withe even several colleagues said now the real conflict begins so they were concerned the large number of the soldiers >> during that referendum period to invest it heavilyto ep the people of south sudan were enthusiastic and hopeful an independent south sudan could develop the infrastructure and work together to build a nation. a run-up to the referendum for those groups that aree educating the south sudanese but they were never realized with a continuation of what
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was happening beforeappen was khartoum was once again being blamed for any lack of infrastructure and then they continued to use violence to achieve their goals in incidentally that median society became enemies of the state and advocated for more inclusive and transparent government. and recently in speaking to a former colleague that he felt the leadership intentionally pulled global over their eyes and felt there were given limited options but that was really all about the leadership to maintain control.
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looking back to those referendum's i feel that solution laid out before the deadline was an important step of reconciliation to identify that unity on a national scale did not have been with of will and the desire although there was a great deal of investment not enough was done on the front end of what was implied overr generations. the creation of a new independent state was not enough to end the violence. and to speak with of former colleagues they had a
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limited engagement and was made up of those that were involved with the south sudan civil war and many complex were carried on without resolution. so what brings san and to the war without greater political the engagement there are many people with real political role. >> in the interest of timeme if you might give us oneyo final comment. >> well my final comment is thank you. [laughter] but incidentally just speaking to the u.n. and particularly to the time i
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was there even now we see it is the largest u.n. mission on the ground the mission was never adequately supported i definitely have a lot of issues but i thinkis a certain context there was enabling that the wind mission at some point in april that leadership from south sudan without having the will to step up and push back against it so it has to do with that general political will in general in the un is an easy punching bag when things go wrong but of the response to the will of the member states or the permanent members of the security council and looking at our cases around the world when they come
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together to make ted decision bin other countries' debt bin and step up as well to follow their lead. you can see an actual process moving where one is ducker somebody waits for somebody else to take the lead and unfortunately we keep waiting we will see a continued deterioration ofti the situation in south sudan and read last point that was not strong enough but i was definitely targeted for i felt a lot of that was based on moving different groupsnt that were not as powerful off their land and our think you see a much more accelerated version of that. so there were those areas that did not have great
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amounts when i was there that is my final point. >> thank you for the insight said to make one administrative point did you have questions this is the time to raise your hand to receive the new card.rio give so really quickly i want to return to mario was a former lecturer at the memorial university in south sudan to give us his insights and italy as the south sudanese but focused on politics and governance in the region to host those refugee issues. >> thank you very much ambassador for inviting me but i was in south sudan
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three years but i am also american also i will not sit for the government i would love to be independent so once you live outside like me i was raised by the united nations and thens those boy-- bin sudan but the issue that is mentionedco
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but there is the mother country in the world. but one does not know in then went and looked. [inaudible] but there were thean independent problems. it got its independence from a neighboring country. so as it dips below interest under the influence or not.
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now the entrance is on the left. major it becomes a failed state.nd so why? for it to become an issue as a very young nation that each of the tribes from the country. [inaudible] what i don't know but it is why the reason the country is the way it is today. we could go on and on. but i was younger as part of
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my tribe but it is not like each year. with those people that do not know you and give their opinion. the south sudanese are very different in the way that i could explain to hear my colleague talked about that. to living kenya and ethiopia i was not allowed to talk to the ngo that they would come to me personally and i appreciate that. but there are things so i
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welcome to my colleague but when the country broke out some would run to uganda or kenya. that was to their abilities. >> but they also are not combating simple soul you tell them not to go back. not for the benefits but to look in see the government does sudan has independent
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thinking all around the world so from what i have seen. >>. but a long time ago there were more than 7,000. but it always works out. so i was a part of that but those attacks that play out now with the government as mentioned they don't
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disagree because everybody tends to disagree. . .
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states through south sudan before and after the referendum took place to understand those terms those challenges would continue after and that is the understanding moving forward so what are the choices in decision making that happens now that you have to deal with the new country but not citizens rights. >> the next question is the impact on of u.s. foreign aid on south sudan since the departure and engagement of the implementing partners of
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who was there and leading up to the conflict dealing with the overall mission objectives to achieve our goals in south sudan. >> u.s. 80 -- a it is actively implementing programs we did that revamp of what we were doing after the 2013 violence broke out primarily to have a mission to support the mission of the south sudanese and programs were geared in that way with the fundamental shift with the context changed emerging into a
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humanitarian crisis so certainly after last year there was an impact primarily international personnel but we have returned to personnel back into the mission we are implementing programs actively so that message will be there to mitigate be impacts of this. >> here is that question mario i think you could best answer we talked about this before we came upon the stage what is the role of the oil industry in particular with relation to foreign investment or the
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ways in which they have contributed to the conflict conflict?. >> 90 something% of the government revenue comes from oil it is said it will collapse because of the oil prices. sova south sudan it is looked at as a partner in those oil companies the chinese companies are there so it is more complicated so
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it is of a good thing but at the same time it is most of the problem today. >> another question relates to the british colonial legacy in south sudan since i spoke about that a little bit in my opening remarks i will try to answer to that clearly the answer is yes if you look at the fact if ascidian or south sudan rid minister does to different countries et 99 through in 1956 in the 1920's they had
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the closed door ordinance that stated people from south sudan could not enter north or south with no exchange with business or culture or at all. then they decided the north was morgan financed am prepared to be more integrated into the modern world bailout is lob to connect with negative continue to flourish in the arab language to be predominant with education and commerce and in the south dade decided not to bring in missionaries from the u.k. to educate in english then the plan all along was to integrate the south into british east
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africa which was the combining of the territory with uganda so they never intended for the nation actually to be unified. in addition they made the decision the south was backwards a not ready to join the modern world which as i said that puts us in the same position at south sudan had and to follow that up independence, that the british disappears the for those nations over 50 years they were never administered as one nation but that nobody could figure out why they could not get along so clearly that is problematic for what we see happening now.
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another question i have as we prepare to close is pretty broad purpose of the answers we have given already but given what all of you have shared hard to assess the political will to meet the crisis in south sudan in this moment of political crisis at home and abroad do you think the international order is prepared to resources and coordinate the effort to find those leverage points or perhaps we can close on that. >> i tend to be an optimist
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maybe part of that is going around the country performing from washington d.c. particularly to raise awareness for issues like south sudan where people from the left and the right can agree we don't like human suffering as americans . and with this political jockeying and the attempt to cut foreign assistance what you can see pretty consistently is to say we don't want people to starve redo one a solution but what we see with the international community right now nobody wants to
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step up that does not mean we are not putting billions of dollars of resources in to south sudan or people don't care other people are suffering. so the fact we're still willing to spend the money and be engaged is encouraging because you see people say we don't care what goes on in the faraway place so right now we see people will actually resources but what they're lacking is how do we stop this? what is the solution? it is a failure of creativity the african union neighboring countries to stand up and say we have an illegitimate government right now we will not just and by inviting this continue so those chinese
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oil workers have been killed shutting down production multiple times they should have an interest we have seen terrible stories of russia with the equipment into a south sudan but the international committee has been very clear we don't like what you are doing there is a lot of movement and momentum with un security council and the african union now has its leadership together where they were still struggling with leadership issues now they should be able to step forward from the neighboring countries and u.s. government itself has invested billions of dollars into this as with the u.k. and norway beg given money
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that everybody agrees this is not right it is not as hard as it needs to be. we need to put pressure on all of these institutions to stand up what you believe in stop making it more difficult than a house to be a put pressure on the leaders to do the right thing. >> and want to emphasize the u.s. government continues to take care and invest deeply with these issues garner in bipartisan support i think we can anticipate the same level of commitment going forward. >> excellent can you provide final comments?. >> yes. just to follow up i don't see this, i think all of the
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elements are there and when the international community comes together we see that we can come together to bring about a solution especially like liberia in the early 2000's but it was but two years later in to sierra leone i was in these areas people stepped in with national reconciliation there was leadership. so on that note what lacks the most right now for me is the political will of that leadership position because of the elements are there.
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it is incredibly complicated it is a sad and tragic situation but it is not the first time this happened. we have seen when we can get together to unify the matter to bring about the resolution. >>. >> so of the country but that international community i would read like to see
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that as a cancellation but. [inaudible] so we have good intentions some could say it was the robust violation and of those sudanese because of the u.n. does not speak with one voice so as they come to
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tell you what to do. >> that will allow us to close please give them a round of applause as banks for hosting us this morning. [applause] [inaudible conversations]
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this was hosted by the american enterprise institute, welcome to the american enterprise institute. i'm a senior vice president for

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