tv After Words with Governor John Kasich CSPAN July 3, 2017 11:15am-12:16pm EDT
you are 90% of the way towards genocide. taking them and turning them into such malignancies and what ever is they hardly even count anymore. >> up next, ohio governor and former republican presidential candidate, john kasich discusses the 2016th presidential race in its outlook on america's future in america divided are united. governor kasich is interviewed by governor christine whitman. >> host: governor kasich, it's a pleasure. the last time i saw you we were doing a fundraiser during the presidential campaign. >> guest: well, you know, governor, you are just an
incredible person for everybody, but also for women. at 217-year-old twin daughters. i want them to know really what is possible, which is the world is your oyster, right? don't let anybody ever hold you back. you're one of those people i watched for many, many years. i'm not trying to flatter you. i'm just telling you honestly because i began to see people now you were a leader at the epa, a leader all of your life. i ran into senator lugar the other day, trying to rid the world of some of these nuclear weapons. i saw senator bob kerrey a couple months ago.
i don't know about you, but when i see these folks who are bigger than life, rather than love for their party, i have to say send dean. >> it's frustrating. we seem to have lost that. first of all, i'm really impressed by your book. very personal, insightful and very clear on the kinds of things that you think are at the bottom of our challenges as a country. i wanted to ask you, you talk about "two paths." how did you come to that title? >> guest: christie, when i think back on my career as a republican, it wasn't always comfortable because i'm basically a populist, but in a positive populist. i can understand the troubles definitely of working people because that's where i grew up. when i corrupt the wind or the
wrong way people found themselves out of work. it was felt that those folks need to be heard and respected. but there's negative populism, which is, you know, not something i appreciate it all. sometimes it's a quick fix. there is not as much of an element in there that hate. we've got to also pick ourselves up. an element of responsibility that we have to ourselves into our family. as a positive populist, i can understand the problems, but we went too fast. one was somebody else's fault, you get ripped off and i am here to fix everything in the snap of a finger, versus me, which the only time in my life i was never a boring candidate. i didn't say make wild promises. it's interesting. being governor was a disadvantage.
you know why it was? because i wasn't willing to do things to get the attention. this was a time when the crazier stuff you did, the more you got on television -- >> it was always frustrating. looking out trump, which was out here. just because he is not crazy. >> were not elected on day one. i'm going to tear at the iran nuclear deal. what you think, john? we have to see where it is. we can't predict the future. that was boring. and it wasn't just that of donald trump. a lot of candidates are doing this. >> in some respects i don't want to make false advantages.
the negative path was down and woe is me and all of that in a feel for how these people. there is no quick fix. this is something we are going to face for a while into the future, particularly with the digital revolution, where the number one occupation. the number one occupation in america are drivers. with the creation of autonomous vehicles, what are we going to do? if we are going to be torn apart today, wait until these folks are taken out as these jobs, what are they going to do if we don't do skills. that's the failure frankly of our education system. >> you talk in the book to about trump one we should learn something from that. i've been positive for a long time the trump and sanders voters for the frustrated, angry, scared and they didn't
care whether the person they were supporting to do what they said they were going to do. all they cared about is they said they were going to do something. did you say congress has learnt this question if they are so frustrated with funding? >> congress is so dysfunctional. you know, you know this. what we've done is they've gerrymandered, which we've always done. but then people have gone out, sought the information that reinforce their views and shot out the information that didn't do that. and now, if you are republican in a safe district. now if you are safe district, you have to watch a primary from the right. if your public and i'm a democrat. the congress is going like this. by the way, i think people gave up and started watching cable television and now they are very
impatient and demanding that their representative and compromises like the worst thing you could ever do. cavorting with a democrat, saying something nice about donald trump if you're a democrat or something nice about barack obama when you're republican. that's not what it stood for it. we have this polarization and it's a big problem. >> host: diskettes to the media. what we are seeing, what we've seen in polls and studies, people are going to reinforce their current opinion. how to get out of that? how do we get people out of their zone willing to move beyond that? >> what i think has to happen in our country and it's not just dividing congress. i read in "the new york times" this one woman moved her wedding from america to italy because she couldn't get all the relatives there. she was afraid there'd be a riot
fighting with one another about politics. i've caught one of my boyhood friends told me he could not talk to my father. his father is 90. the other day he said though we do is shout at each other. i don't go there anymore. we know that you one from somebody on face book if they say something you don't like. there are things that pull us together. one is this drug problem. the dea, drug enforcement agency told me that the only way his education starting very on and all the way through. we ought to have groups in our neighborhood that work to spread this message to young people. i avoided mentoring programs. it's the most powerful than today's kids confidence. that's not republican or democrat. the issues that republican or democrat. it's a human issue. for somebody that lives in your
neighborhood has lots their spouses 60 years, we all have to pitch in and help a person like that. as we work together to solve these things in our neighborhood, we will learn to communicate with one another and then we can send a message up to the leaders to knock this stuff off. i was on "the daily show" with trevor mallon. he said i thought this was fascinating. he said if you think about united airlines, all of us has sent a message, all of us who fly us who find her prince has sent a message to the company. we are not going to put up with this. the movement is coming bottom-up rather than top down. we've got to get the citizens together again instead of fighting. and they will tell the politicians to knock it off. this is a long, unwinding problem that has been happening for a couple decades. >> i agree with you on that. one of the things i found very
encouraging as the march for science which basically started with the march for women's people saying something positive. this is what we've got to support. [inaudible] >> they brought republicans together. and there's concern about nih, which we are all concerned about. epa, all these kinds of things. so i think the activism is good, but we can't just show up to these things based on just what we think and go there. i saw some of the interviews. i had a friend that actually came here. he's a very conservative republican, came down and marched with his daughter and had a great teacher he was telling me about and bragging about. that kind of activism is a positive activism. not a negative we just hate him
but he yells. >> most of it was pitched that way from what i saw. i loved that there was a sign in a think new zealand that tells you why they need a little this. what do we want? when do we want? after peer review. that's not giving it a whole lot of people out on this tree. the poll from harvard and the thing i found surprising and troubling, 59% of the kids who answered, who sponsored it, responded to it wanted to unite america. they thought that's what we needed to do. in saying that, only 21% wanted anything to do with politics as a way to do that. wanted to serve it on public service. and yet they have to do.
at end of the day. i don't blame them. >> i don't blame you to do it. here's what i can be part of. being part of that, they are going to be able to develop friendships and communications and we fight with one another and then we laugh at all of this stuff on the other side and people will migrate over into >> the majority of them want to do community service. what about a program, government-sponsored programs to encourage to encourage this. >> i've been back and forth on that. we have some programs. what if we require some public service for a year or whatever and you got out of school. i've been thinking about it because it brings people of
diverse backgrounds. the military has done more to integrate because you have people of different backgrounds and obviously raises and income and they come together and they learn to get along and maybe that's part of i'm going to think about it. >> i'm smiling because i've been thinking about that for a while, too. so nobody got ahead of anybody else in the business world. to do some form of public service, military or some other public service. it would be an enormously good thing. that is a positive way because we do need to think about how do we get these young people to find people to make the difference. >> i think they are thinking about this because they saw
there's nothing wrong with wanting to be wealthy. if it is without value as they went across the country in a campaign, i saw them saying i just don't want that. and that is a cause for real optimism. by and large i think there's a lot more object did and make them less and more. >> is something i want to ask you. you did more town hall meetings than anybody else has ever done. >> i'll tell you what they learned. it started off with dollars budget where we believe in tax cuts and deregulation. that's a given. but that's not what people are there for. people were there because they
wanted to believe it was more of the heart and soul that was at the head. to the listeners, is telling the governor took up swimming after the olympics because they wanted to look at like these guys. i failed. i dropped my cell phone in a swimming pool. she went down and got it, went down to and they made me wait a couple hours and they said would await ou. they said this is for free. i was flabbergasted. i said are you kidding me? the lady in charge said to me last week a woman came in here with her smartphone. we had done some vain to break her smartphone.
we fixed it and we give it back to her and she said what do i owe you and i looked at the woman and i said you don't owe us anything. she said the woman started to cry, get emotional and she said nobody ever treats anybody like that anymore. to me, this is part of a faith issue, where we need to learn to put ourselves in other people's shoes. that's what people really wanted. they wanted somebody to celebrate their victories and somebody to understand their pain. ..
when somebody needed something. and i read the commentary about it and there was a matthew heny commentary, and it said if he could slow down, to take care of people, why can't you? i read that and i wait, you know what, that's absolutely right. so take one more minute with somebody, and i'm not good at it, okay, but i try. in my better days i slow down. isn't that interesting? that's what people want. they want us to look them in the i pay attention to them and give them a smile and a hug and not let them think they're out there all alone. >> host: how do we get back to that where we have the red rick? what bothered me from the get-go on this campaign or the campaign of the current president was a language he used and the fear factors that were encouraged. >> guest: that's right. >> host: that creates the separation. it's very hard to bridge again. what can we do city on the
outside to try to bridge where we had the administration? >> guest: i started these things called the governors courage awards. this year i gave up three of them. one guy working in poverty but he's tiny people and getting them back to work while he is helping them to give them a place to sleep and all that. i gave him an award. i gave a judge and award who took women who would been human traffic, instead of locking them up, got to the root cause and he gives them an opportunity to get the records clean, to be in rehabilitation to get her life together and have a new start. my wife has been very involved in supporting that program. i get a judge and award because judges sometimes worry ar either going to be called soft on crime? this guy was a hero. then there was a third guy. i think this guy connect with people more than the others. this guy was driving a bus and he was on a bridge and he saw a woman getting ready to jump off the bridge and he stopped the bus in the middle of traffic,
got out of his bus, walked over, distracted her and said to her, i think maybe you need a hug. and in the process with having things been notified, the police came and saved her life. how do we find out about this? because they had a camera on the bus and the film went viral. and again this guy a courage award. he was, was a bus driver. that's an important person in the world. i think we have to honor the people that said i'm going to work at this because we're not going to unravel this overnight. and it's a battle. >> host: it is a ground up thing. >> guest: who are we going to rely on? view count on the politicians in washington to fix this? i don't. but overtime we can start to see i think the great leaders emerge again. i would like to be part of it whether i'm in or out. >> host: i think you will be a part of it. i don't think that's much of a
question, but let me ask you. you talking about, use an example of building that holocaust museum. -- memorial. talking about how keeping at something is important what you think it's the right thing to do. you want to go into that more in-depth in case the haven't read the book yet? >> i was at holocaust celebration and all the people that are at the capitol square come in. we spend an hour and a say some things and everybody leaves and goes back to normal. i thought to myself sitting there, wait a minute, we ought to rethink by this all the time. when kids come tothe capital they are to understand what holocaust was and who the people were that saved folks and the courage and what happened when people let evil take over, participated in some respects. some of them that did. so i got up to speak, and i announced will have a holocaust memorial here in the capital. they told me, taking back the
next day and said you can't do that because it doesn't mesh with a quorum of capital. i said i can't? then why don't you build it out on the grounds? it was a multi-your process to be able to push that through. i got it through. it is an incredible moral design by daniel can one of the world's greatest architects. last week a ymca group came, eighth, ninth, tenth, 11th and 12th grade. would you couldn't talk to them? sure, because i was getting ready to go on tour. i wanted to do one more big thing before he left. in my course of talking to them i kid think it. we had to move. we had to move, so we walked from the front of the state house over to the holocaust memorial, and i got up on one of the walls and i talked to the skits about what this memorial was all about. and i said you need to go and read what happened here.
you need understand. i said do you see that? if you save one life you save a row. it's inspiring. if you believe in something go for picketing if you have to fight a lot of people. you've done all of your lifetime. you got to the point where you willing to give up big things, big things because it violated your principles. why do you think i like you? [laughing] >> host: i don't know. that's always the question. but you've done the same thing. the thing i think one of the lessons that we've learned and at least it was when i was at a national governors association, you didn't know if the person sitting next he was a democrat or republican, didn't matter. now that is much more political but we were sharing because -- is it now? >> guest: it's become infected between governors. i'm not even a member of a national governors association because i don't need to go to meetings were nothing gets done and all i see is no serious work together.
i'm trying to do all of it was some democratic governors right on healthcare. we will see a far i can get on that because we do need health care reform but we can't just cut people off, millions of people often not give them the care that they need. it's become unfortunately i think a lot more political and not good. >> host: it's a shame because my staff wasn't always happy when it went because i'd come back with a list, here's things got to try. this is what other companies are doing and make sense. let's see how we make it work in new jersey. >> guest: i don't know why and kelly all these stories today, bubut i enjoy the stores. there's a governor of connecticut who is not running again dan malloy and the first amendment i was in the white house with president obama and he and i sat together and it was a pleasant. so then i saw him another time and we kind of chatted. we went to the inauguration and we sat next to one another. dan malloy and i come and it started to rain.
he gave me his raincoat. he said i don't want you to get wet, governor. you take this. i want you to be dry. i have to tell you, i'm telling the story here, so dan, i know you're not listening for somebody else and they will tell you can thanks for that raincoat. that sort of like the humanist and also we need to have. there are people there who want to do this. it's like everybody wants to fight. we just have to honor those that really step up. >> host: that's where no labels and a problem solvers caucus comes in. that's a growing but we the people have to support those who were willing to take on leadership to say i love my party but i love my country more and i'm not going to vote on the party line on this because it's wrong. >> guest: i as a public official, i'm not supported anymore candidates including in my part if they're not going to be positive. if they are going to be divisive
and negative and down in the ditch, i'm not going to support them. >> host: you have never run a negative campaign. neither did i. did you have any kind of a pledge, a clean campaign pledge or any kind of standards? >> guest: i think it's okay if you do, run a comparison commanders of the record. but if you start slimy people, i think it's across the pepper in fact, in the campaign for president there were ads that when it by the super fact that it didn't control but i couldn't like. i thought at a negative message and a good golden and a couldn't the but i would do an interview say i really don't like that ad. and so it's a little different now. we are at the tail end of our careers. it's easy to pontificate. but i think, i think we've conducted ourselves, self-congratulatory, that's the last thing these people want to hear. >> host: they like you more about you.
you talk about your feeling that you are ready to serve king from how you brought up and where you brought up. do you want to discuss that? >> guest: my mother had a lot of the traits that i have and, frankly, a lot of the traits that you have. she was one of those let's just tell it like it is. you are a refined lady. i come from a very sort of ethnic blue-collar and we were more loud about it. my mother was something else. she, god bless her, she saw something she didn't like him she didn't care where it was, she would speak out on it. i learned that my mother, that she is to say johnny, tell it like it is. you know, i mean, there's an element of that. i think that's why i would call myself a populist republican and sticking up for people who don't always get stuck up for. but there was a book i read when i was in college. it's it if you would want to understand president back and look at their mothers and the fathers and their impact on the
who impacted you? who gave you your drive? wasn't your father, your mother or was about? >> host: both. it was both. you found that, to try to my father was a postman in your everybody's business, every neighborhood and yet a nice smile on his face. i like to think of a low bit of a combination of both of them but i think early in my career i was more strident and now in my career i'm a little more settled down. >> host: wife's do know all the bit more about their spouses and spouse of my like a question for you. very early on you started to get interested in policy and what was happening, not so much politics but policy pick you are willing to get outside of your comfort zone. i'm thinkingparticularly of your pricing to meet with president nixon. that was a fun story. i like that. >> guest: i was a college student, first-quarter freshman,
and though some things that me at ohio state and some things i want to find it so it asked for a meeting with the president of the university. it was a struggle but i got in. i went to see them at a time that i was concerned about and then i look at him and i said i've been in school a couple weeks and i don't know what i want to be but when i look at this office you have and your desk and chairs and all, maybe this is the job for me. what do you do? he said well, i have academic responsibility and fundraising responsibilities but tomorrow i'm going to redundancy president nixon. i said do you think i could go with you? he said no. i sit at i write a letter would you give it to the president? he said, i guess i could do that. so i wrote a letter and went back to my dorm, wrote a letter telling him how i thought, most of it was positive. gave it to the president of the university. he carried the letter to washington. at the end of my letter i wrote ps if you want to do discuss this further let me know. a couple weeks later i get a letter back from the white house from the president, and he
invited me to the oval office to have a chat with him. i called home and my mother answered the phone and i said mom, i'm going to need an airline ticket. the president of the trade would like to have a meeting with me in the oval office. my mother shouting honey, pick up the phone, there something wrong with our kid. i get fly down at a did get to see, i did get to meet president nixon. they gave me five minutes. i spent 20, and that was just an unbelievable thing to happen in my life and give me an opportunity. i don't think most things happen by accident. i think things tend to happen on purpose. and when good things happen, you know, i'm a work in progress governor, but when good things happen you've got to just be appreciative of and don't come a lot of good things have happened to me in my lifetime and i really appreciate the fact that i've had a podium, an opportunity to speak. this is my fourth book, and i mean, it's really cool. people say what are you proud of? my daughters, my marriage and all that, but like i have
written four books. i can't believe it, you know? , that is hard work. i know. try to hopefully this one will do well. why do i feel strongly? because i think people can pick something up from this book. they can learn from it. i think it's a good one. i'm really happy about it. >> host: i think it's a good one. you want to get into more, face is very important to you and your religion. how awkward or how comfortable where you been talking with it and about on the campaign trail and what about peoples reaction? >> guest: here's the thing, 1987, when i was a was a little what i was always worried that when my father went to pick my mother up in her job at downtown pittsburgh, that they would not come back because they would go on a very dangerous road. and then i got to be 35, i guess it was, i was 35 and i got a call at 11:45 at night and the doctor said i have terrible news for you.
there's been a terrible accident or your father is dead and your mother is going to die. i got to pittsburgh that night. the girl i was going with drove me there. i went into the hospital, and my mother never regained consciousness, and there was a young minister in there, and he started telling me about faith and i said look, man, he said i'm so sorry, i'm so sorry with action. i started yelling at this guy. over the next couple of weeks he started asking me about my position, vis-à-vis the big guy. and he said to me one day he said john, you don't understand, you're going to heal but you had a window of opportunity. why do to go and figure out what you really think. as he meant i had gone through the religious motions and maybe even felt inspired at times and was very legitimate. but i drifted away. so i read everything i could. i disrupted more religious studies of groups and you can even imagine. 30 years later and on the way i
have concluded that there is a god, that he cares about me and that he's transcended, and here's the thing i think religion has gone wrong. first of all your religious leaders to play politics. you shouldn't be endorsing candidates. this is nonsense. secondly, a lot of them preach who was sleeping with you and all this other stuff. i don't care about that. what i care about, love god which brings about humility, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. to me religion is about hope, a second chance, grace, a chance to brush her so often start anew. so i talk about it and i think, if i noticed somebody who really cares about me, whose transcended, and a little bit of expected about me, i have a better chance of hitting the mark and if i just wanted to rent in the woods without a compass. i don't show this to anybody's throat but it's my gifted people. just check it out if you don't like it, fine. no sweat off of me. i just want you to know what i found and it's not always right for me.
it doesn't take away all the pain or make life easy, but it does give you perspective. i am convinced that any mature society what happened, there's a tendency for men to put himself on the throne and to take god off the throne, and in the process would become self-absorbed and would lose our objectivity and then all of a sudden it is a subjective judgment about proper behavior. i don't buy that. if you're a humanist you want to heal the world and that is consistent with those people who practice faith. the people tall, look, i don't have any problem with people. i wrote a book about this. it was a bestseller. it's fine but i'm not into all this, you know, you're going to hell and all that. that's not where i live. >> host: that's good, i'm glad of what i'll be really troubled. >> guest: you like to play golf, if i said i'm going to tell you about golf.
there's sand traps and water hazards and if you move the ball it's a penalty. so let's go play, isn't this great? or if i say to you, hey, golf is about the outdoors, it's the ball against the horizon, it's in the sun, the comradeship all of a sudden you might say i want to try that. >> host: that's right try to so we should not sell the rules of religion. we should sell the hope of it and that's kind of what i try o do a little bit. >> host: you certainly do in the book and it's a powerful message. and as you say you can take it or leave it. it's up to you as to how you think about it but it's troubling to me to see how many, i'm with you, religious leaders impose themselves into the political process. that just takes it all it seems. >> guest: what are they doing? their job is to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. spend their time, they can give us, i think a martin luther, martin luther said it's up to those people in religion to give
values and it's up to the people to decide who their leaders ought to be. it's not up to -- what are these people and the cloth taking our leaders? that's out their job. a lot of them are not going to like what i'm saying but think about what i said. >> host: pretty clear. what you think now that there's been some time to reflect on the campaign, how do you think your daughters, what have they taken away from it? i know you into the book with a letter to them but -- trying to the letter from my daughter reese to me which is, is really pretty incredible. i was telling them that a lot of the republicans were mad at me and all that, and she quoted dr, for those that matter, they don't care about my position, and those who care don't matter. i mean, it was like it's an astounding and stunning e-mail that my daughter sent to me.
my daughters, one of my daughters is more interested in politics than the other one. she is a little double what say, reese, look, if you ever run for office you got a good name, okay? but you can't be like without your is you have to be a republican. my daughter, emma, it's not politics is not a thing but she told her mother, she said you know, it's not so bad that reese is a feminist bolide really don't like is she's a liberal, too. they are starting to understand politics. we don't talk about a really at home. this is not what we talk about. i don't talk to my wife really about this unless i have something that's really bothering. i agree that at the door -- i leave it at the door virtues and says that i don't go in the house with my phone and keep being distracted, but they are great and i love them and they support me and all is good. >> host: what have you done? i found when i was governor one
of the things i insisted on was john and i would go away with the kids for a week, doing something we've never done before, hire a band and go around the national parks, learn how to kayak, do white-water kayaking or mountain biking. just to that time when all four of us were together doing something as a family. how did you set aside time to balance the responsibilities of governor and the family? >> guest: i have not found the job to be like complicated heart. moments it's tough but if you're not playing politics you are kind of make decisions and -- >> host: it's demanding, 24/7. >> guest: sometimes i take them with yo me on things and is really cool. when i went to a land on martin luther king day i took my daughter reese. i took my daughter emma on some trips privately just the two of us, and reese the same way. my wife and i just so they are wedding anniversary. we went away and let the kids at home with somebody to watch over them.
like christmas we already have a place where we will stay down in florida. we're excited about that. we eat dinner a lot together. we do. data doesn't last long, but we were all there. i have a little bit of something i've got to take care of when i get home but all in all it's good. kids are well-adjusted. my wife is fine. i think what she's concerned about is in 18 months i won't have this job and then going to be around a lot more. i think she's concerned about that, i don't think she have to worry. somehow i think you will be -- >> guest: but the family think is really important. you don't want to be successful and ignore your kids. it's not good, or your spouse. >> host: that's the one title i stand by. >> guest: we stayed at her home. we never go governors mansion. now that they are 17 and really beautiful and smart girls, maybe i should be on the other side of
the fence. we have a state trooper that sits out of her house and i think damascus what are the markets can over? she said john, how many boys do you know want to, where there's a state trooper city right out in a driveway? with a gun. exactly right. >> host: i found -- >> guest: covered for my kids on occasion. >> guest: i lived a very normal life. i mean, i go to the grocery come people see me come you go to the grocery store. i do that. i do that. i play golf at a club where people are swimming. i go to the swimming pool. i'm around town so i'm not really kind of isolated. i live a normal, pretty normal life. i think that's been really healthy for our family. >> host: did you do a lot of trade missions as governor? >> guest: no.
i just went to the conference in munich with john mccain. in that course i met business leaders in germany and also in london. i probably will do some more but i don't want to just go and do something if it's not going to make sense and i can't have some success. it's interesting, i haven't done it but i think over the next year and half i would probably do a little bit more. >> host: did you spend come how much time did you spend in bringing yourself up-to-date on what's happening? >> guest: everyday. might even on this book to her i'm on the phone. yesterday for a long time with staff, i'll be on the phone right after leave you. i stay in constant communication. they are very good at reaching out and telling me. i did a lot of work before i left for this trip. for the year or so that i was gone, i would stick back as often as a cook or i would get back as often as i could but the phone is an amazing thing. i tell people actually phones
can connect from wherever you are to wherever they are. you have to stand topic is out to run the government and being governor is always the number one priority. >> host: without question. it's an interesting juxtaposition trying to do that balance of as you run for president, there are broader issues that you don't have to worry about so much as a governor, i.e. the international scene. tell me a little bit and die a little bit into experience as a congressman. you were responsible for some pretty major pieces of legislation. >> guest: i also was on the defense committee. >> host: tell me a bit more about how that helped inform you, particularly in the presidential race, because it would seem to be a lot, you brought a lot from that to that race. >> guest: i was very comfortable on the international
scene. i served on the armed services committee for the 18 year i was up there, and for the first i think it was six years it was the only committee i served on. and in that role i went to the soviet union before the "walking dead" i went to saudi arabia before the gulf war to visit the troops obviously. i was in, way too many places. i went to africa. that was a little different purpose, but i was there. i also, as a part of national security, i became friends with bono and resorted to try to figure out how to help in africa, use foreign aid effectively that would help leverage who we are and show people who we are. i went places, i went to panama. i went to el salvador. i was in nicaragua. place it where it really made a difference for me to go. so being on armed services committee allowed me to kind of look at the world and the threat and develop the way i think about how we intervene, where we don't intervene. the interesting thing is i was
30 i guess it was, i was elected in 1982, and in 1983 i cast my first foreign-policy vote and that voted against u.s. troops in lebanon. reagan was a president and i opposed him and him only a handful. it was about a month or two after that where our barracks were blown up. i learned a valuable lesson about being in the middle of civil worcester i don't like it. that was a great, great opportunity to learn about the side of the country. i did want to go in any other committees. wanted to focus on that and other an enormous amount. i got to work with some of the greatest people. barry goldwater, john stennis. these are people, these young people won't know. gary hart, sam nunn. all these great folks, and in the house people at served in world war ii who were amazing people, conservative democrats who i loved, unless aspen, secretary of defense, he was a
brilliant defense think of. and it was a time when republicans and democrats, there was no difference because we all out to defeat the communists, and we did. >> host: and unity of the site of it when you did the budget. >> guest: than i did the budget and understood pentagon reform and i took, the whole thing, get it was, i was in an iconoclast because i was one of people about the hammers can the screwdriver and the ridgesthat cost tens of thousands of dollars and i said we should reform the pentagon says invite the reformed system. you weren't supposed to say that pic you supposed to look past the bit i work with ron, and liberal democrat to reduce the procurement of the b-2 bomber which i thought we didn't really need in the middle of a nuclear war. its job was to fly in the soviet union and drop bombs in the middle of a nuclear war and i said look, we don't need that many of these planes to do that. i wanted to build standoff weapons and i was a big fight
and win limited production. that carried over to my work on the budget committee. and there was an incident where i wanted to, and control the growth of pentagon spending and i was in a meeting with the leadership, and somebody accused of being a traitor to the country. i don't know whatever possessed me, but i look at him and i said, you don't have to call. he looked at me to what you mean i don't have to call? i said you already forgiven. i know in the middle of the night you want to call me. please don't call me because i'm going to be sleeping and you're already forgiven. might've been -- the whole room just stop. it just went dead still, you know, which was really cold. >> host: that's terrific. that's one of the few times you think of something to say the right time. >> guest: when you decide to go to the epa, was that a hard decision for you to leave new jersey? >> host: it was and it wasn't. it was my last year. i was termed out and integers
because the governor has so much power concentration is one of the most powerful, everybody, nobody cares what you were doing. they just are looking at is going to be the next governor. what you're doing is locking in your legacy which i should've stood, statement until bit more of, but when it's awful hard when a president-elect calls and, welcome he didn't call. the vice president elect called and said would you serve the country? epa was not my first choice try to what would you like to have done? >> host: eyes of the united nations are, after i've done a lot of commerce, a lot of international work as governor, and i thought i could be helpful there but that was promised. i'm pro-choice and the united nations makes some decisions that gives money to programs that help women make decision on how to use their bodies, so that wasn't going to work. but epa is an important position, and i learned a lot there and came to respect that
many women who worked there in works of art and, of course, was there for 9/11 which was really, really challenging. and then the challenger and anthrax. nobody remembers that come to anthrax attack and cleaning of the senate hart office building. so it was good but it was tough to leave new jersey. >> guest: what do you think today, i'm back in my old role as a tv host, want to ask you, when you hear about the issue of climate change and the environment, what goes through your mind? it seems as though it's a controversial subject. maybe less so now but how do you respond? >> host: it boggles my mind that republicans are responding the way they are because it's such a republican issue for personal conservation, conservative, it starts with conservative. if you look at the first president to set us up of the claim was abraham lincoln here l know that teddy roosevelt way do with the national park service and we know it was richard nixon
who established the environmental protection agency we can with a democratic congress, back to point of when people working together. and interesting thing is if remember back come another the audience remember back member back in 1970, but in 1970, we had anti-vietnam writes on our college campuses, kid skilled. we have cities burning up with the race riots and wasn't because congress suddenly thought with nothing better to do, let's go out to the environment. was because the public said enough. we don't like rivers spontaneously combusting. that's ohio. try to his the perfect example of again bottom-up pushing. >> host: that's to your point. people have got to get engaged that way. when they want to ask you before we finish is you've been flat out, you've been running. it's been tough and you been writing a book. have you a time to read much and what kind of books attract your attention? >> guest: i just finished a
great book called the boys in the boat. it's really an incredible book. and now i'm reading the guns of august which you have thought with barbara tuchman about world war i pic you would've thought i read the book but i hadn't. i read a fiction book that i thought was really terrific. it was recommended to me by joel klein here in new york. it's called all the light you cannot see. it is another amazing book. i do read and read a lot of philosophy, too. a lot of really frankly spiritual philosophy. but my wife reads almost one book a week or she just finished the book roosevelts last battle, the sort of the last years. she is, i'm so proud of her, she is a voracious reader and she will give me the things that she thinks i would really enjoy.
so what i do is i absorb a lot of information every day with my ipad. i read magazines, too. i wish the new yorker stories could be longer. are you kidding? are you kidding me? but i absorb a lot of information, but i probably will do a lot more reading. i do love -- >> host: i had to for you. one is called three days in january and it's about the transition between eisenhower and kennedy. the thing that makes that book so powerful particularly is eisenhower is concern nuclear weapons were an issue, cuban missile crisis happened right after that transition, and his concern about insuring that your sibling control over the military. from a stray star, five-star general pick at its, there's a lot that translates to the other is about eisenhower.
it's called i ask gamble and it's the time of the suez crisis in the first time we really got involved in the middle east. and the mistakes that we made, big mistakes. they are very informational books i want to ask you -- try to let me give you one more that of a doubt if it was of the best books i've read in a long, long time and that's david mccullough was booked on the wright brothers. have you read that. he's just a genius. so all these people from north carolina, kitty hawk, all your it was a bunch of sand and wind. we created the airplane in ohio, so just remember that. national title or not. we claim aviation, not you, okay? >> host: you will get some pushback on that unsure. anyway, i was going to ask you what newspapers do you read? >> guest: i read, well, i read
the "new york times." i read "usa today." i read the "wall street journal." i look at times, the atlantic magazine, sometimes i will look at the "daily beast." i mean, i read a whole panoply, and delicate clips sent to me and i look at the cbs, cnn, fox news websites. i read the bpc. that's a lot of stuff on going over. but i also really like to look at the information on the golf channel. >> host: did you watch condi rice interview on the coachella? >> guest: i haven't seen it but i was just so happy and fascinated by the victory of sergio garcia at the masters, and was remarkable, remarkable victory and condi of course as a member down there. i noticed she is never invited me to play golf. >> host: she might get the hit. >> guest: i walked in your with the guy from spain and i
congratulate him on sergio those victory. he was really happy and they said there was a great golfer named -- and i said you know he 4.1 done on the green and asked him how did he manage that? and he said i missed, i miss, i miss, i make. >> host: i have to ask you then, on sunday on that, do you think, let me put it another way. don't you think that the pga and lpga in this case has to do something about people who second-guess from watching? >> guest: that is absurd. >> guest >> host: , two strokes the care she didn't get the ball back is not the right. >> guest: this girl, lexi thompson, has got more, as bad as was that she didn't win the tournament, she's almost now a household word. this is unbelievable that somebody is looking at the
thing, it was like that, you know. you know what people are saying, there's almost a revolution in the golf world premiere almost think who was it that called? we want full transparency. that's the dumbest thing. look, they will ruin the game if they don't, the rules are really critical but let's not do that. >> host: you can't second-guess the next day. those two extra stokes the next infrasonic the wrong card when that was the day before, nobody knew. >> guest: i tweeted i saw a file in the north carolina game as i reviewed my tape and the need to play the game over. anyway, we will lose them all if we keep talking. >> host: we better be careful but still it's very frustrating. there's so much good with the internet and yet the potential for abuse is so great. we don't want to regulate, but how do we -- try to somebody told me today that was fake news
put out about me, article from over in europe. i sought and a lap it was so outrageous and then i found out the somebody added it to wikipedia. so i told, i just heard this a couple hours ago. we need to go and take it down and correct it. yeah, people can do hit jobs on you on the thing and that's why i hope that people will be discerning when they read the you know what they say, believe none of what you read and don't have the what you see. that's not a bad philosophy. >> host: is a good way to get through but it's a challenge now. people get so much information and as i said before, it's getting people out of the comfort zone. i'm with you, if you read the "new york times," read the "wall street journal." if you watch fox news, watch msnbc, or i'm with you, i like the bpc as in most sort of in the middle. the truth is somewhere in the middle of those. that's what people have to get to but that requires thinking. >> guest: it also says that now we are beginning to see
people who are fighting back online against stories that are not true. now there's an activist group growing to try to set the record straight. i haven't seen too much about it but it gets a couple of articles. >> host: one of the things i found when talking to professors at universities, one of the hardest things have to do is teach kids about plagiarism. because they take it off the internet and the figure i don't have to site is because it's on the internet. and also believing everything they get from wikipedia or any one of those sites. >> guest: we have i guess probably just a few minutes left in one area i want to talk about is our education systems, k-12 and higher ed, if they don't get their act together and start educating people with the skills for the jobs of the future, they are going to be this intermediated. there is going be a technological solution to giving people skills to fit the kind of things that their passions for. right now our education system
is operating based on 100 year ago philosophy. our universities cost too much. there's not enough being done to rein inthe cost to get them back to their core function. they owe to me assets that are not core to what the mission is and i'm concerned about this. this revolution is coming. as a nation earlier about driving about the use of sensors, artificial intelligence, there will be people who would be in the engines industry or even the financial services industry who will lose their jobs because of artificial intelligence. we see these commercials with edison, you know, is that edison with at&t? where they give an answer. this is -- born in ohio. >> host: we are joined. >> guest: joined at the hip. >> host: will have to wrap up in a what you think you. it's been good to see you again.
>> guest: i hope our viewers found interesting. >> host: the book is excellent. read it. >> guest: thank you. >> c-span where history unfold daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable-television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> how did you come i love this story, it's somewhat disturbing at the same time but is fantastic how do you convince the kgb to leave you alone? >> guest: so i had to figure out, wanted to make sure that they wouldn't come after me or possibly even do harm to my
german family. so i was racking my brain what do i do? what we do? eventually i needed to tell them that i'm not following orders. so i wrote a dear john letter and it went something like dear comrades, i have to tell you that i decided to not to come back because i contracted aids and the only place where i could get treatment is this country. and then i added some supporting information, and actually traced back to somebody i got the eggs from. that worked. i know that they believed it. how do i know it? because i also told them to give my german wife the money that was saved in my account, and they did. >> host: they told your german wike died of aids? >> guest: yes, they did. i know that because my son who
is now 33, we have been in contact for the last five years, he told all the stories what it was like to be at the other end. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> host: joining as a booktv is pamela paul, the editor of the "new york times" book review out with the latest book. who is bob? >> guest: my book of books. your right to use that pronoun to treat them like a person because i kind of do. he's been a companion that that kept i was 17 in this one journal i've written down the title o of the book that i have read. >> host: what kind of condition is bob in? >> guest: he's not in very good shape. i keep getting asked to bring along for appearances but he is, it's a really old-fashioned, it's not a fancy kind of journal. i bought it at the core