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tv   After Words with Naomi Klein  CSPAN  July 17, 2017 12:00am-1:01am EDT

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>> ..
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>> >> i give myself the break but this book i just wanted to get it out as quickly as possible. there are a couple of chapters that are focused on what we should expect if there is a crisis, an economic crisis for our major security crisis and vice felt so passionately
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that there needed to be a political disaster preparedness for progressives that i just frankly wrote that the speed i have never written before it now so work for the publisher was committed to get that out very quickly also. usually you finish the book and then i worked with a publisher who was as committed to this political moment as i am. >> host: a great contribution to millions of people who were looking at a political situation thinking what do i do? and from the title you give away that "no is not enough" it is an
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amazing coming together. >> you are the quintessential antitrust. >> we have been on this journey as a journalist and
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the marketing got better in the 1990's is that i era of michael jordan and nike but as companies up the ante with marketing design they divested from the world before and started to outsource tune those contracts to whoever was willing to produce their product cheaper and we have been on this journey along time because that global exchange in the 90's that was part of the process of exposing those terrific conditions and nike and disney were making their
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products so i look at trump as a hollow brand adopting the paradigm we're not in the product business. it was up until the '80s in the american marketplace and then they branded the products with logos the then he started to see companies that they were murderers to project that big idea with these selfing closed of disney in this period open-ended celebration florida to live inside your favor brand and trump did
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this with real-estate. he started off traditionally but quickly went into the stratosphere of these super brand and "the apprentice" was a breakthrough and that was less about building buildings but more about his brand and selling his name at very high prices to other developers who wanted to have that name of this side of their resort. like those other brands this was often at the expense of workers we heard about the terrible conditions and also also the clothing around the world. you have a guy who can make millions of dollars by
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allowing him to put his name on it then becomes president and it is impossible to separate out and as family businesses including me ivanka clothing line and a the president so the groups. >> i don't think they can and separate that i don't take he knows where his personal identity fence fad for partial brienz begins behalf you cannot disentangle the man from the brain and. they emerged a long time ago there gregos he increases his brand value that allows companies to rent more rooms and increase fees and sell more memberships so how
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could you separate this man from the branford?. >> and with job he enters politics not playing by the traditional rules of the game but of branding and it is a true to your brain and. -- brie and because disney and nike betrayed the promise loral as a family friendly he does because the products were made under conditions that were abusive to young people in those factories though they were vulnerable and they had to be responsible but trump is a different brand because the idea he always sold was absolute power.
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this was the promise since the '80s it was selling the of promise he likes the word killer and does not mean that literally beg out for themselves when he describes the art of the deal is running over other people and coming out on top nut with a mutually beneficial agreement. he gets away with it. and he has a consumer base that has an aspirational identity with him and trump represents that attainment and that is of problem to the promise is to catch stemwinder cheating or even
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one with the brand identity had more laceration all components for trump is not hurt because that confirms his identity who gets away with anything because he is so rich. the only way you can hurt the trumpery and is proving he is not as powerful as he seems to be for the idea the strings are pulled by putin. >> and the word emoluments most have not heard before. now there are lawsuits in
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court tuesday donald trump is making many and a noted is just foreign entities like the governments of saudi arabia taking rooms and printing his hotels as part of his ill-gotten gains is there anything to that and is it illegal?. >> it may be. is interesting timing with the release of the book because the data book came out then news came that the attorney general watching this lawsuit alleging of violation of the constitution and 190 lawmakers in congress filed a lawsuit of their own and that is significant because what the constitution says
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the president cannot do this about the permission of congress. so there already was a lawsuit filed by a d.c. restaurant and restaurant workers making this allegation but congress people filing the lawsuit they should have been consulted they had the most legitimacy as a party to make this challenge and we may well discover that he is not as a mutant form -- imbued as he thinks he is. so a lot of the examples that we have heard how he is receiving gifts or benefits from foreign governments focusing on these hotel rooms and they think there
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is a case to be made that the foreign governments are deciding to stay at the trump hotel to ingratiate themselves to the president and get into his good graces but looking at the fact the chinese government has been granting a waiver of trademarks to sell their products in china when i am most disturbed by that hasn't gotten enough media attention that the chinese government has detained a labor monitors that were investigating in one of ivanka factory so that would be very tangible benefit and the allegation isn't that they are directed to do this by trump but they see this president has not divested and they believed this is
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what they can do to get themselves into the good graces of president who is very concerned run his personal and family wealth. ya have to prove ivanka is on the phone saying arrest these people. the allegation is the chinese government would think it would be helpful thing to do to get rid of those pesky whistle-blowers. >> to make the point this is not anything new you talk about the tech gave brandes' the decades the clintons reusing their foundation if they could curry favors. >> right. the overarching goal is
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getting it out before a major crisis was to challenge the narrative because job is so unlike any president before there is this idea that if only he could be impeached everything would be fine i am not saying one way or another that would just get us where we were before trump is not a safe place where somebody else combines that a more dangerous mix of these qualities mrs. is very much a bipartisan process it is also about media and news
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coverage and all he needed to do was show up in already trading at like reality tv shows with the media landscape more interested in interpersonal drama they and "in-depth" coverage of the issues we oread democrats using those tools of public branding and obama was a fantastic brand using those cutting edge marketing techniques and many of us felt he was leading this deep change and transformation is something else but which was all about how billionaires' to use of
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a great -- great wealth that they amassed to fix the problems that traditionally we look to the government to solve. and you mentioned that curry of favor so zero even more significant is the whole model of the global initiative with policy makers with a big announcement from richard branson he would solve climate change with a profit from his airline's and that is the biggest gift of the clinton foundation as it turns out he did not make good on the promise of the money or solve climate change because it is all voluntary. but that model that bill gates has tremendous power over the education system
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and africa health care system in plays that role that is similar that many people argue he is more powerful and the world health organization but this idea of the billionaire savior complex is where he stands before the american people to say because i am rich already has a culture we were acting as if the ability to make a lot of money in one area with infinite wisdom even if they had no experience they had tremendous power because of their wealth so how was that pitch to the voters i don't have any qualifications or experience but i am so rich you can trust me to fix america.
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>> host: you also talk about setting the stage and going back to ronald reagan as government being part of the problem and private is the solution then talk about the clintons and if the regulations of the bank's in not doing anything to hold those bankers accountable for the economic system that has allowed the transfer of wealth to be solely enormously skewed and now with those people entering into government maybe you could talk about how the trump administration has taken that to extremes that day eliminate of middleman because the corporations really are the ones in office right now. >> christ.
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this is not a process that trump started but going into new territory and it is a point of pointing the ceo of exxon as secretary of state there have been others in history with ties with corporate america dulles is the significant example and baker. that is not new but it with dick cheney very significant . but the big hit -- the biggest difference halliburton is what they have not heard of before. but it isn't highly branded. so the ceo of exxon one of those most controversial companies under investigation over
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allegations at that they had misled the shareholders that their scientists were researching the '70s and '80s? exxon was under a lot of pressure and with his entire working life worked there 41 years is a continuation of all of that to dallas over cheney to tillerson and the president himself because at least tillerson divested before becoming secretary of state but trump has just emerged
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the administration with the white house. >> as you talk so eloquently this is the ultimate giveaway to corporate america. so maybe we should talk about, not even six months into this administration and what has it been doing to go through the top wish list of the of fossil fuel companies , the bankers, of the military-industrial complex what are the items me already seek to please corporate america?. >> yes. and this should be getting a lot more attention, a medea because there should be exposing of what people believe is a conspiracy between the top administration and the
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russians and that should be investigated that also is systematic and orderly transfer of wealth from middle income to the 1% of the 1% and is the connective tissue of everything on the economic front so if you look at the 15% corporate tax obviously it is a massive kef to all of corporate america to get rid of the estate tax that only benefits the very wealthy and has been on the wish list of major republican donors for a long time. but he puts this through precisely because so much attention is focused on the trump show from the '80s.
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is sold out everywhere so he turned his extramarital affair with marla maples and to a live-action soap opera. he always understood the power of destruction. some of that is now all week and clearly does not like the russian investigation. but all of this draws our eyes away from the economic front if we look at climate it is a huge giveaway to the loyal and gas and coal industry with that deregulation one of the first things he did was to roll back the obama initiative to increase fuel efficiency standards another
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early decision was to go after new requirements to a better document because actually we a note to the extent that fracking is leading to a spike in methane emissions. so now there are new measures companies have to abide by that is one of the first things trump moved to eliminate that also means we will not have accurate information. those are few examples with the health care plan celebrated in the rose garden is a huge giveaway. it is unfortunate with the
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tax on social security or health care he is vulnerable and his brand is but make america great brand had a very particular promise to bring back jobs with another broken promise he promised to read negotiates the live with be better for workers meanwhile of commerce secretary said they would renegotiate nafta to make it more like the trans-pacific partnership that is more like the deal that trump withdrew from the united states were the first days in office. it is getting a fraction of the attention because the trump show is always sold out the.
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>> he met with 190 corporations the first three months in office then when you read the news reports now they make up list -- but don't make a list public of who visits the white house anymore. >> so taking our eyes off so many things like the military industrial complex that the bloated pentagon budget is not enough with another $54 billion but there is no intention paid to that. >> is more than that basically he is a traveling weapons salesmen and. this is the sum total of his foreign policy because they
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for just a bunch of weapons this is what he likes now there is a huge weapons increase so then he goes to nato summit and they're not pulling their weight i am a dual canadian american citizen the prime minister went home to announce a massive increase of military spending. seventy% increase. and they see the way you get in the good graces of this administration is by
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hundreds of millions of dollars so it is unjust that military increase of the united states. >> but you also set the stage to recognize under the obama administration countries like saudi arabia are the number-one weapons as purchaser that they had sold $110 billion with this misogynist regime so they saw the stage set serious set the stage that people are prepared for the shock to come but you also talk about what people are doing to resist trump now and the whole book is the of the
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first several months of the trumpet administration with people rising up maybe we should spend some time on that then move on to the white house. >> guest: we have seen this incredible wave of resistance and that it can win. and the surge of people going to airports across the country and just say no and rejecting this with local officials also congress people lawyers nor even courage to judges to stand up everybody i know and political organizing they
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have never see the level of interest obviously though women's march from dave number one. how people want to get involved in understand the democracy. so white people trying to do internal work showing up for racial justice this is inspiring with a collective memory of september 11 and a lot of people describe that they are in shock that this could happen to respond in ways that make us more shock resistant. because heaven forbid if there is an attack in the united states v already know
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how trump will respond because he immediately blames immigrants. even though the bomber was born in the united kingdom. even after a london bridge he said this is why we need the travel ban. so there are still some issues on the agenda extremely radical is the devoss agenda i am worried about a security shot and also an economic crisis to deregulate the banks that there read me another 2008 crisis as a privatized social security. that is why it is so importuned for progressives
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that we have to develop a common agenda. even if we don't we need to be advancing that one of the things i have found from covering societies in over two decades that they might be able to slow that down a little bit but it is not a nut but after the 2008 financial crisis the way that people came together very courageously to reject what they saw as being forced to pay for the crisis and electing another government.
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but really there wasn't the half of the of vision so i make the case in the book so for us to do the work of a forward-looking vision to be bold and inspire people and those that tap into real pain and mix that with insidious idea is is to hold out that promise of day a better life. we saw when he issued the manifesto of fully funded public health care getting rid it of tuition fees with renewable energy and day turnout in record numbers.
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>> also the fact to take on foreign policy issues after those attacks in england rather than saying the platitudes to say looking at the policies overseas it has zero this creates resentment which unfortunately they're not major politicians in the united states willing to say that. >> but that may change rica's people are paying attention. was injured we corvine to adapt as the underlying causes he was savaged in of british press at this appetite to gets that those
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root causes justice the resonated with bernie sanders talks about climate change as a security issue and to be mocked by the elite opinion makers. >> so let's talk about the bernie sanders campaign and those ideas that our more commonplace and you say for decades is now set out loud by those candidates free college tuition and double minimum wage to demilitarize the police. prisons are no place for young people and refugees are welcome and the wars make us all less save so talk about how those ideas are more acceptable from the bernie sanders campaign.
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>> this is the moment it is exciting from the progressive perspective because i grew up in then neil liberal era my childhood was in the npt is of no alternative. that project was about advancing the radical free-market 80 as. and accompanied by huge expansions but that was sold based on the idea that there is no alternative to it and in so many ways constraining the collective imagination so that has been a profound crisis since 2008 financial
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meltdown. so they had to break their own rules in the open. but suddenly they could find trillions of dollars no money for hospitals or schools or day care. so now we're in this period so the first day each says note to the austerity after the economic crisis but now with that utopian imagination like that provision for back -- black lives is a bold policy document about how to get those underlying causes and
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with racial justice at the center i have been involved in projects people can read about it which is a similar approach but just as the rest of the ideas are surging in the popularity so doing better than the entire expert class so those far right idea is highly see a full bid far more popular than they have been so this is a race against time because there is a vacuum and as it collapses things are shifting. >> another contradiction is that progressive movement is
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way ahead of the democratic party. if you see a fight in baltimore where there was $15 an hour minimum wage and the democratic mayor vetoed that. so how do you think you can move that democratic party is supposed to be more progressive but hasn't caught up to the more popular sentiment?. >> that energy is huge tomb taking power jews see it is possible with those votes carrying 22 states there is a belief at any point in my
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life without winning progressive coalition. it is possible we do know he had weaknesses from our generation did not feel comfortable of how precarious of women's rights so he fully integrated that racial justice agenda but it was not enough to capture that if he had been able to capture 50 percent of the black vote he could not win so it isn't the basis to right wing but there were the constituencies that he could not reach so i think
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that winning coalition is out there and people know it if the party does not come to its senses and keep trying to fight the tide of history and people will leave in this is what i'm hearing. if we look at the u. k year recorded was bought by his own party every single turn he won the leadership than was sabotaged facing the internal coup and he called:but now after the election results which were so surprising he was supposed to be wiped out after winning 32 seats people had a fit this is the way to win elections so we will see if the democratic party learned from that. but even the lesson is that it will be a fight.
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some think it isn't even worth fighting with the democratic party. >> it is tough because there are examples there hasn't been a transformation actually the new parties have cropped up to capture the public imagination with a tremendous victory whether the example of greece or the progressive party is in france or portugal so who knows how that will go but we have the winner-take-all system. >> that is the hard part. if there was a different electoral system allowing for coalition government that would be a no-brainer but this is the system that there is. >> so with the issue of race you talk a lot in the book
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the movement for black lives and the indigenous community and in canada as a you have a strong indigenous community on the forefront for those environmental struggles and a compelling chapter about your experience at standing rock interview moving to a different society is where people of color have to be in the lead so how did you come to that conclusion?. >> i guess i am a journalist first and foremost, in this comes from movements in this is the of wisdom of the movement at this point so in canada every battle has been
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led by indigenous people so that chapter on standing rock it was so moving to be there when i was there. when they finally decide that easement fed tried the door he won the election so people understood the victory was on borrowed time the trump would go with into probably refer said. but the reason -- reverse it but that leadership that i saw withstanding a rocket and the people that i spoke to, the analysis was so intersection all that this was a racial justice battle
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that the pipeline was routed to the white city and was rejected because of the water quality so it was moved to that single drinking water source that is a classic example of environmental racism. also very much about climate change to understand we cannot have any hope to protect a livable planet for our kids. and also standing up to corporate power and militarize its police like standing rock and it looked like an army and that privatize surveillance equipment so it was all love
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it and you can talk about the intersection maliki that is a wonderful phrase the african american legal scholar and feminist who has given us this term that we are using that standing rock was life sometimes it is uncomfortable to talk about it as they lived experience of how that plays out. >> you also bring up in the standing rock chapter that's it was about winning the right to the lan to do what you want with their property also a different way of living together and how this change the people under the
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leadership of the indigenous people and that profound sense of connection to a the land you think this will carry-on or have an impact?. >> everybody that was there was change i think. standing rock also live by the the title because as soon as the victory was one to stop of pipeline it was temporary but with is not over but they won the important legal victory so what trump had said what
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they were doing was illegal. but as soon as the ruling came down immediately everybody wanted to say the real work starts to turn a the reservation into a shiny example of a justice base of fossil fuels to do renewable energy with the economy that would never need a new pipeline service this is where we are we have to put no and yes to gather. so we don't know how this plays out. but i have been around long enough not to believe in the obituary. whether occupy wall street
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or the anti-a globalization movement but we know that the ideas and the people part that learn from past mistakes so they go into a period of gestation turning into something else. occupy a wall street turned into hurricane sandy then then they went on to fill the backbone of the bernie sanders campaign so we just don't know. >> i also want to emphasize in this book while you are not naive how dangerous the trump administration is, i
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love the analogy you use in the automatic tennis where you hit the ball you take a swing but on the other hand, you talk about the trumpet agenda that is not all controlling so from this part you say they don't control the city's or states or even what congress does certainly not universities or institutions they don't control the courts. they don't control other sovereign nations for what we do as individuals around the world. so this is a very inspiring section because you layout that we do have a space is we don't have to keep saying no but to build up the
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alternatives whether a small bubble how you live your life or how to reignite these global alliances we have had in the past after trump said no to a the paris agenda and the world community said we are moving ahead anyway. such talk about those spaces he does not control. >> specifically because what his administration is doing doing, what they control is significant but the onus on us to do more in the space is is all the greater when i was speaking at harvard giving a lecture there was a
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ferocious fight harvard has one of the strongest fossil fuel movements in the country that the administration has been intransigent with them the of harvard is so iconic if you make the decision they could help other schools to make a similar decision. but i realized that the argument during the obama years was we don't take investment is the most effective way we think is more effective to have policy and there was incredible policy that is quite strong pro of course,
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that is undone by trump and there is no credible prospect of federal legislation on climate change and that argument is gone. so when michele obama said when they go lower we go i during the dnc she was talking about tone and not joining them in the better of the attacks but i think we should adopt a similar approach as relates to policy and action as they lower the bar we have to raise the bar everywhere we have power. the mayor of pittsburgh announced that he was
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elected by the people of pittsburgh and not the people of paris so people were stepping up to say pittsburg voted for hillary and i will get the city at 100 percent renewable energy by 2035 which is the most ambitious of the country. so that is an example of people using the power that they have to levant's a powerful progressive vision every year seen something similar with health care in the senate to move one step closer to a single payer because of what congress and trompe are doing and we may well be in a position with free trade when they are seriously renegotiating nafta that will be an
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opening for occurs movements and environmentalist and everybody concerned to come forward to say this is how you write a fair trade agreement because when we fight to these deals back in the day we were pretty good at saying no but not as good to say yes. >> host: as an activist banks for saying now that the lines are blurred we all have to be an activist and to give us this beautiful way of looking at the trump agenda not is something that is so enormous not to get out of bed but as a challenge we have to take extremely seriously to give
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that only those bases the new communities. and as you go forward on your book tour people will be excited of these solutions with this potential that they have. we as a community and as a nation and global community will be much better at articulating for what we want to live in so thanks for your book. "no is not enough". >> they key so much.
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. >> i'm reading two books the first one i have enjoyed that tortoise and here's a through. i think there are zero lot of stories for adults but it is not will give you a little section that says i have to save him after all a person is a personal matter how small. there is a story for adults also if iran the is you did they just had a chance to make it more meaningful for people. these are great stories of the older children neck graduate from school and give them a book that talks about the places i go. it is a great story i
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encourage people to read dr. seuss. >> i am reading also killing patten is also why bill o'reilly it is a story of world war i and world war two i consider him to be in incredible leader khaled informed him going forward and how he led the country. i think bill rileys books are well written sometimes they get detailed and you get lost it is good. . .
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a wonderful time here seeking the change she and being part of it

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