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tv   Robot Proof  CSPAN  September 30, 2017 6:30pm-7:31pm EDT

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and now here's joseph aoun on education and technology. [inaudible conversations] >> good evening. welcome.
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good evening. i'm glad you all are having a great time. i'm happy to see you all, welcome alumni and friends to the m.i.t. fall form event featuring northeastern president joseph aoun. thank you m.i.t. press for partnering with the alumni association to bring this event to come to pass and also a special welcome members of president aoun's senior team that are here this evening to make sure we treat him well. we are very happy to have you here. i am the ceo of the m.i.t. alumni association and i'm glad to say it first hello. it's my pleasure to begin the program tonight but first a few important details. please remember to silence your cell phones. your phones may be used as a
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question if you visit alq m. alum.m.i.t..edu/you a to ask questions of our speaker. we are filming this event so please note that during the q&a your face or voice may be live on air and if you choose to participate. finally a final note please join us after the forum for conversation and coffee and dessert in a reception area. given that we got together to celebrate the m.i.t. community and the publication of a new book it is fitting that president aoun's publisher and another m.i.t. alum herself amy brand a ph.d. from a class of 1989 is here tonight to help kick things off. a few words about amy before she takes the stage with amy became director of the m.i.t. in july 2015. she had prior history in the press as executive editor as well as experience in the broader publishing world.
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the chair the impressive details on her but trust me when i say she knows a good book was he -- he sees one and we have one here to talk about this evening. brand focused her attention as director of the press on balancing the strategies launching a partnership to enable libraries to enable hundreds of m.i.t. books that have been previously unavailable previously in elevating the presses ability with a shiny new storefront in cambridge completes with a phone event series and i'm sure she hopes to see you up there in the future. while amy wohl properly introduce her steam speaker this evening i cannot surrender the microphone without offering a form -- very warm m.i.t. welcome to president aoun. [applause] we are proud to have you with us here this evening. we are eager to hear your perspective. the m.i.t. community of alumni included is known for its intellect and its universal
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desire to make things and fix things, to make things better. your leadership of northeastern as well as this book about the distinctive capabilities of the human mind even as we witness the ascendancy of robots shows an m.i.t. trained human mind at work to make the world better and we thank you and appreciate your presence here tonight and with that amy i will hand you the microphone. [applause] >> thank you to whitney. i'm delighted to be here to open the program and to at a deuce him more formally. some of the world's most prominent authors ranging from science and technology to art architect -- architecture and including higher education and linguistics. the m.i.t. do nothing less.
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the spirit is alive and well and are featured speaker joseph aoun has just published a book higher education in the age of artificial intelligence sub-- "robot-proof" higher education in the age of artificial intelligence. aoun challenges the university and literacy are so based on rote learning and memory are increasingly the purview of machines. this book makes us rethink the purpose of higher education in confronting the world's problems. a robot education trains laborers not creators. as someone who reads a lot of books and reads a lot of the proposals some of the dry academic stuff let me say i was impressed with the possibility of this book but with many beautifully crafted sentences.
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i mentioned to a mutual friend j. kaiser professor emeritus of linguistics at m.i.t. that i had the honor of introducing joseph tonight and jay replied quote i could never understand how he could bring himself to choose the presidency of northeastern over being associate editor of linguistic inquiry. [laughter] there is no accounting for taste. he was also my student and perhaps that's where he went wrong. for those of you who know him best quintessential jay. he earned his ph.d. at in the glow sticks at m.i.t. in 1982 serving as professor norm chomsky's first teaching assistant during his first year. he is a native of lebanon and he studied in beirut and paris dakar -- before coming to m.i.t. and after m.i.t. joined the faculty of usc's college of letters arts and sciences where he was named the an odd grow colder of the anna h. dean chair
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northeastern university named him a seventh president in 2006. now in its 12th year in the role he has distinguished himself as an expert on global and experiential education. he shares many of these successes of the co-op program in the book. today the northeastern has worked studied and conducted research in 131 countries on all seven continents. in 2011 aoun received the robert a. -- a word from m.i.t. which honors m.i.t. graduates for significant achievements in humanities arts and social science fields. announced just today aoun is one of seven university presents -- presidents honored by the carnegie corporation with $5000 to advance educational initiative which is quite remarkable and typical of this
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commitment. he pledged a matching grant to take the award even further. after president aoun opens with his own remarks from his book david rothman take the round and ask you questions and then we hope members of the audience will join discussion as well pick david is editor of m.i.t. technology review. he has written extensively on chemistry biotechnology computer science and environmental issues but first please join me in welcoming president joseph aoun of northeastern university. [applause] >> thank you. good evening. it's good to be back at my alma mater with friends and colleagues and some of my teachers. amy and i graduated from the linguistics program so she is
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very biased in her introduction. don't believe anything she said. i am going as you mentioned about the book essentially something you all know, smart machines are getting smarter and are displacing us on many levels many jobs are becoming obsolete. as a matter of fact studies have indicated and projected that over the next 20 years close to 50% of the jobs will no longer be needed. the quality we know today is going to increase even further. at the same time when we look at the marketplace, when we look at society and we ask ourselves and we asked people employers,
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institutions what kind are you looking for, they are looking for creative standards and entrepreneurial standards that can be global, that can think in a systematic way and this is something that is needed and this is something that everybody wants to have. given the challenges of jobs and what's people in society is asking or education must change in order to make people robot proof. in my book what i am presenting is a blueprint for how higher education can change to make people robot proof. one, we need to rethink our curriculum.
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second we need to integrate experiential learning is part of what we do and third, we need to move lifelong learning in order for it to become part of our mission. let me start with -- i'm calling for a curriculum based on humanity. it is the mastery of free literacy. tech literacy and the machines and understanding how to interact with these machines. the second is the understanding of the enormous amount of information that machines are --
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and how we can navigate this information and make sense of it and be on top of that and the third is what i called the human -- mainly the focus on cultivating what is unique to human beings that machines will have difficulty duplicating. what are these attributes? entrepreneurship, systems thinking, the billet to interact with people, to be empathetic, the ability to be culturally agile, the ability to be global and the ability to function in peace. how do we achieve that? we don't teach creativity. we don't teach entrepreneurship.
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we have to practice it. we have to live it and that's the second we have to practice it. we have to live it and that's the second. experience or education is essentially the i believe the most powerful form of experiential education is based on the work practice or long-term internships. what are these? it allows the learners to test what she has learned in the classroom to refine it and to understand what she is good at, to understand how to work with other people, to understand her limitations and her potential ended to be a leader, to be a creator. and then to integrate the two together.
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i see it happening on a daily basis. the third aspect is lifelong learning. machines are smart and getting smarter. no jobs are going to disappear and also new jobs are going to be created. if we are going to be obsolete, each one of us unless we educate ourselves. lifelong learning is a necessity lifelong learning in higher education has always been viewed as second-class operation to what we do. it has two become part of our
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mission. people need to educate themselves in order to remain robot proof. it's not going to be easy to integrate lifelong learning is part of our core mission because it will lead us to rethink our curricula. are we the sole owners of the curricula? are the learners and the employers, do they have a role in shaping them? it's going to lead us to rethink the notion of delivery. it's going to also lead us to rethink how we are going to bring the learners to us. they don't have the time. they don't have the ability. we have to go to them.
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the university has to go to learners. it's going to lead us to rethink our notions credential he. we need to meet these challenges society is changing. the world is changing. higher education needs to change and i believe that higher education has the responsibility and the opportunity to make every learner robot proof. that is what my book is all about. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. my name is david rothman and i'm the author of m.i.t. review and
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it's a great honor to be able to participate in this conversation with you. i have to say this book is terrific and if people haven't read it, they should. i think it does many things well but two of them air it provides the historical context in the current context on why robots are changing jobs and how technologies in the past have changed jobs and how this time it's different. it's a nice discussion of what is happening and then secondly it not just offers the problem but it provides a really strong argument for why education helps people adapt to these changes.
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so, a terrific book. i'm going to ask a few questions and open it up and hopefully have a discussion. i want to start by asking you, when did you start thinking about ai and rove bots and its affect on work and why education might change and sort of a follow-up as you begin writing the book and as you wrote the book how did your thinking change? >> you know there is work that has been done. this work was called into action because it raised the indications of what ai is going to do to society. that is one of the first books.
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obviously i've been reading a lot of books on ai trying to learn about it. that was one of the turning moments for me and you know in higher education we don't talk too much about work. we want to educate our students but we don't care if there's an implication for work or not. i belonged to an institution where this has been part of the core mission of the institution and to think of the work not only of today but the work of the future. this starts as thinking about the application of the ai evolution the second machine age on work and society and frankly on higher education. what has changed from when i was writing the book is that the
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acceleration happened. mainly when people started talking about ai people thought this is remote and this is not going to happen and suddenly we are seeing it around us, jobs being redefined and at the same time we are seeing many politicians are denying them. we have politicians who say this is not the problem but we should be concerned with and you know so therefore we need to regulate that. we need to tax it and we need to do x, y and z. what has happened is something that started as a formal academic discussion became central to many discussions happening and that's why i had
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to adapt and integrate the elements that i didn't think about before. >> i think both the pace of the development of technology has been much faster than we anticipated and i think it's become more evident that we are unprepared for those changes. >> absolutely, absolutely. i was mentioning to david if you look across different countries europe is much more sensitive and much more worried about that and it's happening at the government level. here the government is saying this is to be concerned with. it's interesting and england and the uk is looking at the possibility of asking each company to put a small fraction
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in order to focus on educating and reay dictating their workers, their executives and their future employees. >> i was struck at one point in your book you called it one of the most powerful skills that we have is people versus machines is creativity and creativity is still an advantage that a person has and will maybe always have. i was wondering if you could expand on i think you mean creativity in the very general sense in a very broad sense. maybe expand on what gives the advantage of machine over robot? >> here at m.i.t. creativity is
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everywhere and in society, let's go beyond higher education. an entrepreneur is a creator and an entrepreneur is looking at the problem and looking at the possibility and seeing it in a different way. similarly somebody who is launching not-for-profit either in roxbury or in africa is a creator and this shaping something new. people who are working in various industries are rethinking industry so it's not only the research, the fundamental research that is creative. everything we do, the way we look at the world than the way we look at the problem is based on creativity. this is something that has been the purview of human beings and
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human species and it's very difficult. i haven't seen yet the robot that is going to see the next creator and apple or have a new theory so that's why i think we have to focus on these aspects that are specific to human beings. >> there are many things that will get more and more powerful and i certainly believe is you just outlined creativity is something that will be elusive for the foreseeable future for ai. >> and hopefully other aspects too. the ability to look you in the eye and understand whether i'm happy with what you are saying the ability to read your body language and the ability to
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interact with you. when you are happier when you are sad, the ability to work with you and be led by you. all these aspects to who we are as human beings. this is something we need to continue to cultivate and focus on. >> one thing i wanted to ask and you touched on it in the book is we hear a lot these days about skill gaps in terms as there are not enough people to higher for jobs and you point out in the book some do not believe it's true and it's such a complex issue. i wanted to ask you your take on the skill gap and how we address it and how we make sure people are prepared and how companies
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perhaps work with the university to make sure we are training people for the right skills in the right jobs. >> to survey what is needed in society now and those surveys, the business education form did that and the chamber of commerce did that. you see for instance we need cybersecurity you know. this is not a surprise. there's an enormous demand. clearly others -- you can add design thinking and various other aspects but you ask me how society and how we can look into that. there are two types of learners
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that i am discussing in my book. those that i call short on experience, long on time and those are undergraduates that teach and others are the learners who are long on experience but short on time. so you know there will be new demands for new jobs etc.. what has happened for instance and that's lifelong learning. what has happened is society has answered in fact higher education has not answered that by creating for-profits and by creating boot camps. the number of boot camps that were started now they are
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teaching you big data and their are doing it but we are seeing the limitations of what they have done. if you have a boot camp let's say encoding the employer thinks this will get you into the job but will not allow you to really think and master and be the creator. it's rote learning so in some ways companies have answered that by saying we are going to create our own university. that's interesting and every time a company starts its own university that means why should they start their own university and it m.i.t. i have m.i.t. t-shirts.
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so i design t-shirts but i don't manufacture them. i go to somebody who knows how to do it. everytime a company -- that's a failure of higher education. to answer your question society has done that by allowing the for-profit to flourish. society has answered the need by allowing, i don't need to be allowed to do it but it's a company doing lifelong learning. ..
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you are referring to the fact that if indeed i and robots are going to displace us as people who have jobs, you know, who are going to be the consumers, with who are going to be the taxpayers, and also that will be great winners and many losers. varied by society. so what is happening is that there are discussions about, you know, universal base income you know about that. there are discussions saying no we have to give incentives for people to redefine themselves. you know, this is not something that i discuss. it's really beyond my expertise.
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what i am saying that -- everybody will become obsolete unless she or he reeducate themselves and retools and higher education has to step in and integrate lifelong learning as part of its core mission. >> i might just suggest i won't begin to offer a answer to your question but i think it does point out that these are major significant upheavals to the economy, to our society how we think about our future, how we think about the role work in our economy. so i'm not sure anyone really has an answer. but i think it does point to this is a -- big deal going on. >> absolutely. >> there --
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>> it is known for its education and northeastern has big strides with online education. how do you provide a learning experience and how do you manage that when your students may not be anywhere near the campus? >> yeah, i didn't ask him to ask this question. [laughter] so thank you, first of all. in everything we do, we are experiment whether we're doing undergraduate education whether we're all of the certificate, mass, et cetera, and now we are moving if in having all our ph.d. and my colleagues are leaving this effort. the one thing that we have done is to where the learner is.
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what does it mean? for people who are long on being short on time namely -- [inaudible conversations] we have launched certain number of campuses that in silicon valley, in seattle, in charlotte, in toronto and soon in europe and asia. the purpose precisely is to be where the learner is and to provide experiencal education. so for somebody who is long and experienced we've taken into account what she knows, what she does in the work place. i'm talking here it be the professionals. it's not we go for groups of 20. it's really not the mass market that cultural anything like
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that. and then for those who are try aring to educate themselves, and move into new fields, everything we do from the certificate to the degree has to be and the point is not to have the experience and to have the classroom experience to point to integration of the two. as a learning approach. so which means that, in fact, the universe is becoming a month university. you know, boston is only one manifestation of northeast. that's what we have done so whatever, whatever we do. wherever we do it, we go to the learn and and do it in the way. go ahead but as you get ready,
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let me intervene this question that people have posted. and it is as it it falls are you concerned even following your blueprint for higher education there will be far fewer jobs for those people who need employment i think -- you know, this is a healthy concern. there would be jobs that will fit. there will be new jobs that will be created. i cannot predict, you know, whether the jobs that will be created will be in us. we need to be ready to be, you know, to educate ourselves to look at these new opportunities. are they going to be enough? i don't know. i don't know, i hope so. but certainly, i know one thing. that if we ignore the fact that we need to educate ourself and
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be part of them, we're going to be losers. >> i've actually asked this -- some version of this question to many people, and the best answer i get is really -- there's really no way to know key part of this equation is how many jobs will be created with a new technology? and this is basically unknowable. and i think to your point what we can do is prepare ourselves for the type of work that's needed the types of jobs and hope those jobs flourish and multiply. also along the same lines, you know, if we start thinking about our learners as creators, they may be opportunities that they can shave themselves in different ways not only by taking new economy but create
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this new economy. >> two questions briefly american higher education i think generally viewed as leading the world. american precollege education is middle of the pack and maybe below middle of the pack. what has to happen in the public school system and in private secondary education to prepare people for the world tay they're about to enter -- and secondly, do you see any risk over time of what i would call a 21st century lug dlrks move not to be operated on robot or car driven by a -- nonhuman people saying no, no, opts o the world i want to slow down, i like the things they are and become significant over the time. >> absolutely. you are seeing -- to answer the second question you are seeing reaction to that. and the reaction is for instance, they could even über wherever you know in europe, and
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in the rest of the world, very strong movements to oppose and limit there. you know, every time i'm not seeing somethings that going to surprise you profound every time there's a change. you have early adopters, you have people who are not going to expect that. and large majority is in a way sees situation. and usually what happens is that early adopters become, you know, the model. and they will carry the rest of the day, and it may take time but ultimately you can not solve it. so absolutely it is happen whatting as we speak. similarly the idea of -- you know taxing robot is -- can be viewed along similar lines. you know, other protectionist measures that you know about worldwide can be viewed along similar lines so expect your first question about the discrepancy that we have in the
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united states between case or 12 and higher education is fundamental question. i think that in some ways i'm going to say something that may surprise you. high education needs to start looking at itself as providing education and education that occasional framework from k to gray so for instance, we have launched at northeast and this year the workshop in the summer where we invited 70 school counselors, advisories, principles to come are from, you know, from the united states and canada. to come and work with us on getting trained and retrained and education. so why? because we assume that our responsibility is also with respect to the case or 12.
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and the case with, you know, i mention that higher education needs to change. and you know, and in order to allow learners, it starts as an early child and that's our responsibility also in higher education because we are leading the pack. in terms of thinking about learning, and not only in terms of, you know, science and engineering and humanity, et cetera. who does learn, us, are they benefiting from are that? not really. >> i hold the mic. sorry -- [inaudible conversations] for the pirate -- you mention characteristics that they have to be entrepreneurship and ability to interact with people and at the same time i couldn't agree with you about that any more they fairly to be
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soft skills and society seems to be moving towards keyword and pattern recognition on resumés and all of that so interesting question is, number one, how do you assess both within the school and then how do you propose to let's say as a society or private sector to e vault essential skills because that's getting harder and harder without interviewing everybody in the world. >> yes. it's a great form. because in many way -- in whatever we do in higher education we have focused on input measures on we know how to assess input very well. you know, namely when you look at the incoming students we know who they are, we know, you know, grade they have, what they have done, et cetera we don't assess the outcome and we don't know how to assess the outcome well, and you know, and now, you know, that -- that's something we need to work on. but going back to your point about what you called the soft skill.
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i'm not asking about -- only the, you know, focus on what you call the soft skills. i'm asking i'm calling for the integration of, you know, information with the human literacy. you know, in other words, has to understand implications to be very simplistic and implication where what she's doing when they are working on building a new city along coastal lines. violatorral implications, the human implications, et cetera. that's now -- the final point that you raise how do we assess that. you know, we're, we have created the platform. that will take each learner before they start at
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northeastern and remain with him or her for the rest of had her life. so i call it coaching for life. that will allow them to aseis their objectives, learning and otherwise and how they're meeting their objective and how we're helping them meet their october oive we launched this fall with 1,000 students and next year it is going to be o universal. so we have to do it with the perfect app and coaching and app in, you know, in the first year absolutely not. we are learning and we're building it as we're flying it. sorry. so before i came i went to liberal art school where it was
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sort of drove into us that the purpose of higher education is not to train you for a job. but it is a place where you will learn how to learn. and given these developments, i feel that this approach is being vindicated, however, over the last 20 years i have also noticed that the universities over around the world have started reduce or o eliminating their department of philosophy or history or o literature. are they doing the service to their students? given what the future bears. >> i think let me tell you, we each one of us in high education there's a responsibility. because we created the false dichotomy between learning to live and learning to earn a living we have created false dichotomy between learning to live and learning to earn a living. and we got away with that
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because we are influence of society. nowadays this is being questioned so what i'm asking for and calling for is not this dichotomy but to go beyond it and to integrate the literacy from the technological to the human literacies. and that is what i'm calling for. so the second aspect of your point is that are we doing ourselves disservice to close classic department or o not? in my mind as an educator the responsibility is dual. we are doing ourselves disservice and i agree with you but also when we start focusing
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on we're not teaching literature we're teaching theory. i'm not teaching history. i'm teaching my theoretical reports to history, that becomes something that is about me not the learner, so we moved away from what ideal that spouses so that's also why you're seeing now several of liberal arts colleges waking up and saying no. we need to integrate an approach in what we're doing, we need to worry about the real world. so you see that the world is changing. we have to change. and we have an enormous importance and that's what i'm describing many this book.
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let's take one more question and i have one more question that's been sent in. >> karen is is -- you know somebody i know. so i don't -- she's biased too so go ahead karen. >> looking forward to reading the book. >> you haven't read it, karen, oh, my god. [laughter] >> no -- >> i'll give you a copy. >> so primary and secondary education has been widely criticized for training teachers too much in how to teach. higher ed has criticized for teaching people content ph.d.es learn about research and so forth and not how to teach. northeastern higher different kinds of ph.d.es or training people. how do you get your professors to a spot where they know how to teach experimentally instead of what they were trained to do or
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they being trained differently? >> you know, we what we have done at northeastern, karen, is to focus on learning sciences and to create a center that is building the learning sciences but also in like whatever we do this is not only a theoretical center. but also a sensational center. so with, that every educator is educated in experimental learning is helped, coached is become part of the egg by system along these lines. absolutely. >> how do you -- [inaudible conversations] >> i'll invite you karen to do that. but essentially, you know, as i mention the first aspect of experimental education is not to have two separate endeavors i'm teaching my material in the classroom and then they go and
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have a six month co-op or internship or whatever. it's how you are going to integrate that. and that is what we focus on, the integration of the two. so we have our learning specialists working with faculty colleagues and faculty colleagues become the ones who are leading it through their practice, through their fine tuning of that. and i have to tell you, the students the learners play a big role because once they go spend six months in shanghai or nepal, and they come back and you talk about the, you know, discuss what's happening in terms of the climbed that's in shanghai they can question you as faculty. because they got out of their comfort zone they life live, work and shape it and they come back and question you and then they get you out of the comfort
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zone so this means that many this approach, the learner is really at the center because learner is leading the whole process. so we, you know, for me, you know, when i came to northeastern, this was an uneasy situation buzz i have to learn. and my best teachers were the students because they lived it. but i saw that the transformation on impact because they came back knowing exactly what they don't want to do. what they want to do and how they want to do it. which is -- they got to me to understand this and we have, you know, this ecosystem is going to be helping you multiple levels. through the steward eases, center, the colleagues, and every faculty is doing that you know goes through this -- emersion if you want that is
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transform five for or our faculty. >> i like to sort of perhaps leave on there's a question that was sent in and it -- question is, knowing m.i.t. as you do what is your specific advice for the institute via the -- conclusions in your book? and how best to rally the institute resources in that direction. >> i have to be careful, rafael is a friend. so let me -- [laughter] as we mention something. and it's going to be semicontroversial not fully. edex is a excellent operation at many levels. it should believe that lifelong learning has to become part of the commission. you have to have your opportunity is to see how you
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can lead the world by integrating and mighty. ed x is not mighty and that's opportunity. lifelong learning is if you agree that lifelong learning has to become core and has to be fundamental to what you do, then that's, there's a way of rethinking edx, and rethinking the whole operation. how, i will let my colleagues here do it. that's a tough question. [laughter] and i think a good one to leave the audience with. so please join me in thanking president joseph. [applause] >> thank you. thank you, thank you. thank you. terrific.
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thank you great talk. thank you david, thank you for also being here, and also i wanted to thank to the m.i.t. press, and m.i.t. alumni association for putting all of this together for arranging it, making this happen. thank you. >> thank you. thank you. david. here's a look at outerrings recently featured on booktv afterwards our weekly author interview program "new york times" magazine contradict tore suzi hanson reflected on travel abroad and weigh withed in on america global standing progressive policy institute senior fellow david osborne examines charter school movement and offered outlook for future of public education, and harvard university professor danielle alan discussed how mass incarceration has impacted her family. and a the coming weeks on afterwards pommer radio tv host
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and contradict tore charles psychos will provide his thoughts on conservative movement in america. craig shirley discussing life and political career of newt gingrich. federal judge john newman will share challenges he's faced in 45-year career on the bench. and this weekend on afterwards, investigators journalist art lavigne reports on the mental health industry. >> e opened my initial story with a person who was led out of a facility other objection of the psychiatrist and he wanted to save money and had a dream to sending his father to heaven by killing him with a baseball bat, and i profiled this example of the untreated. then, then i learned this is all in the same time frame. and then i learned through the good offices of one of the countries great reformers judge steven liceman who changed -- i know him well.
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>> right. so judge liceman gave me a tour of a modern-day hell which is the ninth floor of the miami-dade county jail. it is my original article had the photos but the photos and even narrative feature writing simply does not do justice to the horror of what you saw. so it's my u view it's not 19th century mental health but the 1700s so there were -- mostly minorities. mostly untreated, and refusing medication or not treated properly naked surrounded by blue cloth that they couldn't use to rip or o kill themselves and they were -- spouting gibberish or o locked behind dungeon cells and they were in rusted metal beds and doctor are liceman, i mean, judge liceman toldz me at the
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time it make you wonder whose crazy are we crazy or is the system crazy that this is existing? afterwards airs on booktv every saturday. at 10 p.m., and sunday at 9 p.m. eastern. you can watch all previous afterwards programs on our website, booktv.org. >> what we saw in the trump campaign was this long-standing tension between, you know, kind of conflicts within a economist economy between big and little guy and so on so as a candidate trump got mileage after taking the smaller folks and that might be workers who lost jobs or to might be companies that are, you know, on the smaller side and can't compete with these big global interests. as president we see a little bit of a shift in that to somewhat
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more traditional conservative physicians which are quite in favor of global trade and the exploit bank and these things so i think it is a great example it is also an example of something that to be honest once throughout business history had is profound conflict between business interests. i think we have a tendency in the -- kind of way we talk about the politics and business today to assume that you know the major conflicts are between business and nonbusiness. business and society or business and the public interest movement or the environment or o workers, and while those tensions certainly are real, there's a lot in a long history of -- different industry, with each other trying to use the government as a -- sort of tool to secure their own benefit against others. you know, in the book for example, i take a story all the way back to the colonial period or to early national period when
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you had debates between sort of jefferson farmers who are wanted free trade across the atlantic and clashing with people like alexander hamilton who wanted to protect northern, northern factory owners through tariff and legal action and seeing similar debates today. little businesses are smaller interest versus larger global ones. >> here's a look at some of the books being published this week. national book award-winning author tana coats reflects on legacy of president obama and we were eight years in power. in martzen luther best selling author and radio host eric explores how the christian monk reshaped religion russian journal u.s. reports on russia and future the democratic state in the national book award nominated the future is history. scalia speak shares collection
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of the late supreme court justice angt anyone scalia speeches edited by his son christopher scall why and former law clerk edward. also published this week, economist and former greek finance minister, recalls his experiences negotiating economic policy with world leaders. in the adults in the room. real american shares the changes that forminger staple stanford dean jillly experienced with racial identity, in ali biographer jonathon has now insight into the life of former heavy weight champ and activist muhammad ali. and former radio host and msnbc contradict tore provides his thought on conservative movement in america in how the right lost its miepgd look for these titles in book stores this coming week, and watch for many of the authors in the near future on booktv on c-span2.

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