tv Gerald Horne Storming the Heavens and The Rise Fall of the Associated... CSPAN October 29, 2017 6:31am-7:33am EDT
i have stories here about of course like people taking their skills to ethiopia, brazil, etc. and there were a number of attempts by black americans to establish airlines, but this is where these two stories connect, because claude burnett was also an investor in hand american airways. so when james robinson comes to him with the idea of investing in what becomes ethiopian airways, is a bit
reluctant, because he feels it would have undermined his investment in pan american airways, that's the paradox of jim crow that i talk about. so those enterprises mostly did not take flight, if i can use that metaphor, not least because the competition was so stiff. if you look at all the airlines that have gone down the tubes in the united states, an american, transworld, eastern airlines, etc. so if these major, highly capitalized airlines are going down the tubes, you can imagine what's happening to these black american attempts to start airlines as well they're running into some of the same roadblocks if not stiffer roadblocks .
>> my question is really the early 80 years get their experience from where white people are teaching black people how to fly . some of them were talking about europeans and that's a story i also tell which is to say they felt europeans were more interested in teaching them these skills than euro-americans for reasons you may be able to surmise. then there's the case of eugene boller. there have been books written about him before and he's in my book as well. he's a black american born in georgia i recall at the turn of the 21st century and as a young boy, does away on a ship to france , and then he becomes, he wanted to become a pilot while he's in france and then he winds up staying in france, coming back intermittently to the united states, during world war ii becomes a spy for the french resistance. the money needs to make a movie about him. these are the stories that somehowdon't take flight . then he's with robeson august
september 1949 when there's a turning point inrobeson's career where his concert is attacked by the right-wing . so many of these pilots were also felt on and there was a high mortality rate, to put it mildly. and some of these guys are making their own planes and learning how to fly. so the mortality rate is very high. and then you have these ancillary enterprises, for example for some reason, people like to see parachute jumpers. and so there was this brother named willie suicide jones who for the longest time held the record for freefalling.
i think he jumped out of a plane at 20,000 feet and didn't pull the cord until 2000 feet. you can imagine what can go wrong. that was not uncommon that kind of entertainment before the era of television, even in some cases before the era of radio. so there was this obsession with mediation at a certain point.black colleges were trying tofind teachers to teach aeronautical engineering for example . and i'd like to see a revival of that kind of fascination as we enter this new age of extraterrestrial travel. >> i wanted to find out if you discussed the california eagle in yourbook , and also
if you could talk a little bit about the politics of the associated negro press because the california eagle was quite bereft of a lot of other papers, black papers. and so i wanted to talk about that and if you address it in your book's i do. charlotta bass was the editor of the california eagle . the existence in los angeles, i guess from the 1920s up to the 1960s. bass was also a woman of the left, as you know. she got into hot water with the us authorities not only because she was associated with the progressive party but also after the chinese revolution, october 1 1929,
she tried to go to china. i can't recall but in any case, she comes into conflict with barnett because barnett was moving with the political win. and charlotta bass was trying to resist the political win. and she's not able to resist the political wind and that gives an opening for the la sentinel. i read the la sentinel. i even have my subscription renewed . but with respect, they staked out territory to the right from the california eagle, which is to say more conservative than the california eagle and was able to profit bountifully as the california eagle was driven into submission. and was supplanted by the la sentinel which comes out of california. so that story is there.
>> hello, my name is stacy sharad and thank you so much for doing this work . i have two questions, one is concerning the role of women in aviation. i skimmed through your book and i see that bessie coleman in the early 1920s was one of the people who talked pilots and i was wondering if you could comment on the progression of blacks in mediation and the role that women played and whether they were, how did she get there first, was she one of the first ones in my second question is concerning a statement you made about our tendency to underestimate the burden of advancing in society. and you gave the example of the little rock times and i was wondering if there were
still being arrests, i was wondering if you could be more specific as to what type of arrests and are they continuously undergoing and is it coming from the federal government or from just local sports? >> i was a freelance but as i said, this is anecdotal. i was in little rock at the clinton library a few weeks ago and i was listening to public radio and they were marking the 15th anniversary. and it's mostly harassing phone calls. but there's this litany that often cites presentations like this. if you look at the segregation of the university of mississippi, old myths, there were major riots that took place. people were killed, if you recall and to show you that it was not sectional, the
boston busing crisis, desegregation of public schools in boston, there have been films and books written about the uprising with regard to that or to go to the 1980s, early 1990s with the how the desegregation crisis in yonkers new york, there was a major revolt in the segregation of housing which by the way, it's shown in this film, you can sign on from various services, show me a hero? anybody seen show me a hero? about the yonkers desegregation crisis. i cite that litany to suggest that often times there's an underestimation of racist resistance which is mind-boggling considering the history of this country and my book on the haitian revolution i tried to put forth the idea that you cannot begin to understand the collapse of slavery
without understanding the haitian revolution and in my book negro comrades of the club crown i tried to suggest it was british abolitionists who played a pivotal role in pressuring the united states to move away from slavery. and often times, there's a downplay by historians because i guess it makes them sleep better at night to think that there's not that much resistance and everything was sort of hunky-dory, so to speak. but then you're confronted with evidence of november 2016 and what is flowing from that. how we are having not only these sober discussions about the prospect of nuclear war and all the rest, but you know, there's an op-ed in the washington post about that he's going to be reelected. in 2020. so, i mean, there's sober
discussions about prospects of fascism in the united states of america area and if i may say so, on youtube i have a lecture on that. >> my named september 2017, chicago. so i think that we really need to move away from this underestimation of the strength of the ultrabright forces which should never should have taken flight in any case. you have scholars getting tenure at ucla writing books about genocide taking place in california against the indigenous population of the us take over. you had slavery, jim crow, united states nationals were captains of international slave trade as early as the 1790s. and then they had the
formations like the so-called republic of texas 1836 to 1845, an independent state was challenging the united states for leadership with the international slave trade,you have the lone star flag could be found off the coast of brazil . this is the history of the united states, so given that history to underestimate the strength of the rightwing , were these people smoking their drapes? what's going on here? in any case, that's the point. the first point, bessie coleman was born in what was called the indian territory in oklahoma. with a different definition, she could even be called a native american although of course she's a partial african ancestry and winds up in chicago. she, her enterprise is in many ways publisher of the chicago defender. of course, there was new
research on that particular story all the time. as i noted, perhaps she winds up going to france.and trains as a pilot. and she crashes, there's a high mortality rate with these pilots. interestingly enough the people who invited her to jackson florida where she meets her death , seizes either the father or grandfather of janetta cole, the former president of spelman college. the father, thank you. and that's where she perishes but of course i talk about will brown was on the cover and this, there's a whole cohort of black women pilots who are fighting on multiple fronts. and in fact, the kind of obstacles that are strewn in their path help to explain in
2017 why black women are still underrepresented in terms of aviators in the united states of america. >> i asked the secondquestion . >> and i'm an active participant in the movement. i innovated a cafc in downtown holland in eight days and i feel that the harassment continues because even to this day i'm being denied full access to society, for some reason and i can't figure out any other reason so when you made that statement, that's why i asked , thank you very much. >> the question is timely and well taken and hopefully it's taken seriously. >> how are you doing? i'd like to get the relationship between haiti
and cuba and. >> in what time. >> up to the cuban revolution. >> i like to get that and what's going on, i have an african friend said north korea and africa had a relationship, could you please explain that relationship to me? >>. >> with regard to north korea and africa, we have countries like zimbabwe for example in southern africa which has been subjected to sanctions beside the united states and britain and their allies. and in an attempt to break that strangulation, it has relationship with china, relationships with north korea, etc. you may have noticed in thenewspaper just the other day , that sudan
which has been under sanctions by the us authorities, the sanctions were just listed because the sudanese authorities were pressured to either break or downgrade relationships. if i'm not mistaken, somebody can correct me that major statue in senegal, you know the statue i'm talking about the man and woman and the baby? i think that was a north korean sculptor if i'm not mistaken. because there was a complaint that you look north korean, not african. >> but i think that there's a long time long-term relationship between north korea of the democratic people's republic, the prk and many african countries because if you think about it, for a nano second, you have the war in the korean peninsula, between 1950,
stretching and its phase until 1953. and where the regime survives, you have african nations, i mentioned donna in 1957 and many of these african nations are looking for assistance, as a matter of fact i'm writing a book right now on southern africa. and so it turns out that many of the anti-colonial fighters of and africa are getting training in north korea. for example.>> and china too, for that matter. so it's a very very relationship. the other question was about the haiti in cuba. >> you may know that the haitian revolution of 1791 to 1804 is a world historic event, it was suggested a few moments ago ignites a general
crisis in the state system can only be resolved with its collapse which has happened in the caribbean, jamaica, barbados in 1830. because like revolutionaries anywhere, the haitian revolutionaries are trying to spread their anti-slavery gospel, their shoring things up in jamaican barbados and london realizes what that the jake is up and so begins to move away from the slave trade 1807 and slavery itself in 1833. the yankees dig in their heels but the same prop is unfolding on the shores, there's evidence to suggest that gables rubble in virginia, the beginning of the 19th century is at least inspired by ongoing revolts taking place in what becomes haiti. with regard to cuba, after they haitian revolution, he was considered one of the richest pieces of territory on planet earth because of the shameless exploitation of
africans in terms of producing sugar. then with the disruption of the revolutionary province of a lot of that production moves to cuba. and in fact a lot of the slave owners are from hispaniola and sometimes bringing into africa and of course untilthe slave owners come to these shores as well. from louisiana to northfield to philadelphia , etc. the haitian independent haiti in fact and i talk about this in my book in the haitian revolution, they tried to intercept slave ships on the open sea. cuba is a major recipient of enslaved africans. you may recall slavery glass in cuba after slavery is abolished in the united states of america. and many of these ships were trying to start stripes with
the lone star flag of texas, for example. a turning point for haiti comes in 1844 with the split. you know that island is shared by two countries, haiti and the dominican republic. i told the story, this is one of the more successful interventions of us foreign policy in the 19th century, hoping to engineer that split. i don't dispute dominican sovereignty but i felt the story should go forward nonetheless. and haiti of course is spreading its anti-slavery gospel not only to north america and jamaica and barbados but also cuba, also to south america, to venezuela, etc. it's an important country and when i speak on pacific, i mentioned
the fact that within hailing distance of where we are speaking, across the border is baja california. there's a large number of asians who really need our assistance. some of them are not integrating into mexican society interestingly enough but there are others who need our assistance and if there are any humanitarians in the audience or people who have contacts with mediterranean organizations, i recommend assistance to these haitian brothers and sisters because haiti was there and many of our ancestors needed help and one in turn deserves another seems to me. >> first i would like to appreciate the scholarship you've displayed an awesome historical account of the facts. i have three quick questions, one is you comment on the incident that occurred under the reagan administration where the bombing of the
airlines in grenada. >> barbados, you mean? >> know, in grenada. in which colin powell with the reagan administration, he's a native and his people are from grenada. what would cause him to not challenge or to even think twice about bombing the airport or bombing airports in the airstrip in grenada in which to place under the reagan administration. second question is that you mention the belgians in the congo and then to was bombed when patrice lumumba was working very diligently to run the belgians out of the contest, he had relationships
and sitdown talks with a cruise ship, under the kennedy administration, they saw that perhaps patrice was leaning towards socialism and ultimately that administration was very instrumental in killing patrice lumumba. and lastly, what marcus garvey in his efforts in the black star line. you mentioned the contact. did he have any serious relationships with a sovereign nation on the continent to where he could then actually cultivate a relationship that could have bridged the gap in our struggle, and if so, with political wizardry of marcus garvey, wouldn't he have to think on the fact that not being a native of this, of america, it would be easily for him to be deported based on his political activity that he, that was very easily
for the united states to identify him as being subversive. very easy for him to be deported. >> i'm trying to put myself in that frame of mind of the honorable hosea marcus party, now he himself often thought about that and what was his option as he was moving to nih board and did he have a fortifying press that was articulating the legitimate aspirations of the masses of our people right here in global. >> and the last question, i promise. >> i promise. >> the, when lieutenant goodman, his plane was shot down iniran , >> syria, syria.
when he was actually captured and he was trying, killing literally syrians and jesse jackson along with a few other leaders, petition for his release on the moral issue of i guess an american, and he was black. >> what did the moral affect did that have on the syrian people and he was telling them. and for him, to be captured by divine decree, why were our leaders, this year is an african-american, using a community doing serious damage. what would car our people to look at this as being an african-american and petition
for his release when he was living in syria? >> for this question. >> no, really. it was good questions. somebody can fax check goodman, i can't recall if he was killing lebanese, i can't recall the details but in any case, i assume that reverend jackson who was either running for the presidency are about to run for the presidency and it reminds me of the story about barnett. many of us have multiple identities and if you're going to be in an investor for example, there are certain laws of capitalism that you are constrained to observe if you want to avoid bankruptcy and similarly, if you're going to run to get this imperialist enterprise i assume there are certain rules you must observe if you're going to be taken seriously.
as a candidate. i should also mention in this book i talk about in terms of the early latin american assassination with aviation that the number of the pilots that were bombing north korea in the early 1950s were black americans. and this is not only due to the fact that there was this obsession with aviation and trying to learnhow to fly . also the danger. these aviators were having nervous breakdowns. it's, i mean i'm flying in general flying a plane. but it's becoming simpler nowadays because computerization of course. but then, it was not only the danger of flying. people were shooting at you. >> as well.so many of these pilots, their out of commission. having nervous breakdowns. and so that's leads to the oppressing of black americans. >> and then they're going down. >>.
>> being shot down. with regard to grenada, from the context of the grenadian revolution in 1983, a very important political development led to the movement of maurice bishop and there was an internal squabble within the movement that led to marie's bishop being killed. which was a pretext for us invasion. in the fall of 1983, so i guess that means we're marking the 30th anniversary. of this month. and mister powell as a conciliatory of ronald wilson reagan, yourformer governor in california . apparently felt that the rules of the game necessitated that he be involved. in this attack on tiny
grenada. a country whose contemporary population is about 110,000, the entire population. >> that fits comfortably in the la coliseum. at least the adult population could. and of course you had human construction workers who were fighting these us invaders. it was really very tragic and unfortunate turn of events. with regard to the congo, i hope this book is not, you should order it, and it's a book called congo love song. very interesting.it deals with the relationship of black americans to the condo from the time of the takeover by king leopold in the late 19th century up to independence circa 1961. you might recall that patrice mumbo was assassinated. >> that a number of black americans invaded the united nations and had a raucous demonstration, turned it out. >>. >> you might also recall the recent news stories about the
commerce cold, the secretary-general of the united nations. who died in a plane crash near that same time, apparently. and many of us suspected this for a long time that he was killed by the rhodesians or their allies in the condo. for that allies in venezuela navia for example, finally after 56 years, there is a credible legitimate investigation taking place and if any of these culprits are still alive, hopefully they will face the music. >> and with regard to marcus garvey, keep in mind that there was not that many independent african nations at that time.you have liberia which was sort of neocolonial. the appendix of the united states of america and thenyou had ethiopia which as i point out , i think in this book that marcus garvey's relationship with ethiopia was not the best for various reasons.
and so that's complicated having relations with his imperial majesty. kylie selassie. although probably you probably know that southern african in particular there were a number of followers, you and ia, particularly in what is now no media but also in south africa. >> south africa, i'm going to talk about this now. >>. >>. >> i hate to say this, 5:00. so i think we're going to end at this point and have a book signing. >> boots are available at the front desk and thank you gerald. [applause]
>>. [inaudible conversation] gerald horne was recently a guest on in-depth program. the author of red and black: the communist front and rethinking us history answered your questions and discuss all of his books , the program can be watched online at booktv.org. just type in depth into the search bar.