tv 2017 National Book Festival Condoleezza Rice Democracy CSPAN November 24, 2017 5:50pm-7:01pm EST
the trip i didn't have my phone last few days i was paying attention into everybody, listening to everybody, taking a picture a was an scrolling e-mail, you may want to afford the emergency or for your grandkids or families but other than that you will be just fine. this celebrates everything to upload the old-fashioned way. >> host: i put my phone and left on the set. here is the book "thank you for being late" thomas friedman from the new york times is the author. [inaudible conversations]
interviewing by one of the best interviewers that i know who has his own show from the national book festival cochair and very generous supporter mr. david rubenstein. [applause]e] enjoy. >> thanks for coming this exposure being here. this is a great event. >> it is hard to believe you have been out of government about nine years so before we get into your book that i highly recommend, a jealously you have been doing since you left
government other than writing three best-selling books teaching at stanford and one else?. >> what i consider to be my real profession i started as the assistant professor 25 the appointment was in the of business school with undergraduates with american foreign policy for those who have worked in of private-sector and spending a lot more time practicing piano then in the government because that is a great love i am trying to improve my golf handicap. >>t: speaking of the one of the first two women to be elected to the augusta national golf club that is a goner. >> i was stunned.
backwinded good friend kim now to tell me i was being invited to join and i just sat there dumbfounded and she said you will say yes, right? i said yes but i was completely taken by surprise. >> what is your handicap? [laughter] >> not a state secret if you are golfers there is the index and to take that to the different courses dependingen on the difficulty you can establish or handicap. the index is 11.6 which means i'm about 13 or 14 handicap. >> if youou ever play this george w. bush?. >> i have on a number of occasions he plays really fast you almost have to run to your golf balls.
>> can you trained to be a classical musical pianist and i have seen you perform you do a lot of those concerts' any more?. >> what comes every year. and at the kennedy center. but with a professional quartet. and with that classics for kids. i believe like everybody with science and technology but our kids need exposure to the art. [applause] >> want to focus on your book but growing up in
birmingham with the jim crow laws how long do you realize you're not been treated the same?. >> we're the most segregated in the country at the time the place where the police commissioner now refer his brutality it did not take long to know that the appearance were embarrassed you cannot go to a restaurant or a movie theater with the school teachers never let us feel that we where victims. if you consider yourself a victim e and they also said you have to be twice as good
as a matter of fact. because you'd be against prejudice but so if you take the little kid to santa claus and says what we have for christmas? that he was telling the of little black kids out here. so my a father who was 6-foot 3 inches said to my mother if he does that to condoleezza i will pull all of that off of him. [laughter] so here is a little girl you were five years old and santa claus verses' daddy. he must have read my father's body language he put me on his knee and said
but would like for that is the first time i thought this is terrible. >>os also you have the unusual first name where did it come from?. >> condoleezza is another attempt to americanize the name in italian that means sweetness or it could mean a angelina but she wanted the italian musical term in sheila's searched on dante allegro meant fast so she americanize the ending.
>> ultimately you went to school at the university of denver then you went to notre dame. >> i love football. are you kidding? speesix so then you go back to the university of denver with your ph.d. and then stanford?. >> correct. >> specialty is soviet? why did you pick that?. >> i was a failed music major i studied piano since the age of three my grandmother taught and learned very young and myself more your i went to the ass bin music festival school i am told year-old i thought i would end up
playing a piano bar some place i came back with no major and it took a class and international politics all of a sudden i knew what i wanted tod be. with european diplomacy international which took me into internationalio politics as a degree ultimately. >> your father once said that was a surprise so with your academic career ultimately you were involved in the of bush administration national security council. >> is the important story because the impression is i
got there on my own person and nobody gets there on their own. said to advocate for you or work for you as a national security adviser came to do give a talk. . . . . a instead my role models and my mentors were white men. they were old white men. those were the people who dominated my field, and so i always say to my students now,
your mentors just have to be people who believe in you and who see things in you, you don't necessarily see yourself. >> he helped you get a -- >> when george h.w. bush was elected he asked brent to be miss national security adviser and brent called me and said -- this is 1988 -- this fellow gorbachev is doing some interesting things in the soviet union. the president needs somebody to help him sought it out do you want to be the white house s.o.f.a. yet specialist. >> host: do you speak russian. >> i do. >> so after that administration was over, you went back to stanford? >> i did. >> then when george w. bush was running for president, how did you get involved with that? >> i went back to stanford, was provost of the university, chief operating officer, but george h.w. bush called me and said my
son, who is governor of texas, is thinking about running for president, and i'd like you to come talk to him about foreign policy. i spent a couple of days at kennebunkport with him and he asked me to organize his foreign policy in the campaign and that's how i got involved with george w. bush. >> were you prized he canada -- he asked you to be national security adviser. >> by the time we got hills elects i figured it would go into the administration and national security adviser -- i'd been on the national security council staff. >> how many women have served as national security adviser before you. >> none. [applause] >> okay. so, let's talk about this book. democracy." why did you feel compelled to write a book about democracy. >> i think i wanted to write this book for a long time
because it is in some ways an expression of my own life. i am a firm believer that there is no other system that accords the kind of dignity that human beings crave than to be able to be free from the knock of the secret police at night to say what you think, worship as you please, and have those who govern you have to ask for your consent if think growing up in segregated birmingham, where my parents and relatives were half citizens, but still fundamentally believed in this american democracy, relate one story in the book issue was with my uncle alto, and he picked me up from school it and was election day in alabama, and i was sixish years old or so and i knew in my own six-year-old way that this man, george wallace, was not good for black people and there were long, long lines of people going in to vote, and
with segregated so they were all black. said to my uncle if all these people vote, that george wallace man can't possibly win. and hi uncle said, oh, no, no, we are a minority and so george wall lace is going to win anyway, and i said to him, so why do they bother? and he said because they know that one day that vote will matter, and i never forgot that and i thought of the extraordinary story of the united states of america, this constitution that was given to america by its founders, these high-minded words about equality, and yet a country born with the birth defect of slavery, but how this same constitution that had once counted in the compromise, my ancestors at their-fifths of a map is the same constitution under which i would take the oath of office as the 66th
66th secretary of state under a portrait of benny minimum franklin, southern in by a jewish american, ruth bader ginsburg. that is the story of democracy. >> you point out in the book that you are african-american but 30% of your blood line is white. >> 40 percent of my blood line is european. >> and 10% is asia. >> some other. some other. >> in birmingham, the young girls that were killed in the bombing, were they people that you knew? >> absolutely. the birmingham black community was pretty small, and den nice mcnair, one of the four girls killed in the 16th street baptist church bombing in september of '63, i had again to kindergarten with her. there's a picture of my father
giving her, her kindergarten diploma. her father was the photographer at everybody's weddings and birthday parties, and so, yes, my --ed aie me a collins was any uncle's home room and i remember him saying that monday when the went back to school, he looked at her empty chair and just cried. >> did your family say we should move out of sneer. >> no. no. i do remember the first time seeing real fear in my parent's eyes about what they could do to protect me, but, no, we stayed there. birmingham began to change, it's the story of democracy. that same constitution would be used by the naacp and thurgood marshall and others starting, by the way -- i describe it in the book -- with the marlowe report of 1937 and they would decide
what cases to take to try and break down segregation and inequality. and that would eventually end up in the civil rights act of 1964, the vote right act of 1965, and the first time my parents and i could go to restaurant, was two days after the civil rights act passed, my father said, let's go out to dinner. so we got all dressed up and went to this hotel for dinner and the people sort of looking up from their food and then maybe realizing now it was okay, we had dinner. >> so in your book you point out that we have had a birth defect, slavery, but when slavery was ended in 1865, we went to jim crow laws, so how do you as an african-american woman rationalize what our country did after the civil rights amendments occurred in the constitution. still went through a hundred years or so of discrimination.
how do you say that democracies such a wonderful system when you had to live through that. >> y is no perfect system that humans have create ever,y and yet because of the institutions that we were bequeathed, the constitution, the courts, independent judiciary, slowly but surely the rights of the descendents of slaves would be won through the very institutions. when martin luther king, jr. and others took on the struggle, dr. dorothy hite, a very deer mentor of mine, the only real woman among those great civil rights leaders, they were asking america to be something else. they said america be what you say you are. glory a much strong position win you have those institutions and place and can appeal to those institutions. and so in any system, the bringing of rights to people is
a difficult and sticky and hard process, and our system is extremely hard, but i look how far we have come, stiff with a -- still with a long way to go and we have done better than i can of anyplace in the world has done it. >> tight you're a very accomplished person. do you feel discrimination anywhere in the world, you're discriminated against? >> i always say if by the time you're a senior professor at stanford or secretary of state, somebody treats you bad his because of your race or gender, it's your fault, not theirs. no five. very strongly that i am able to achieve what i want to achieve, and i try to tell my students to feel same way. if you consider yourself a victim, then somebody else has control of your life.
we all now there are grave inequalities in our society and we know that our great national myth, doesn't matter you came from, matters where you're going, you can come from humble circumstances and do great to goes -- it isn't true for all of our people. so, our goal, our job, as citizens of this democracy, has to be to use these institutions to demand these institutions that they deliver on that promise, not to shun them because they're still the best option for get think. >> did your parents live to see your great success at a professional? >> i lost my mother very young. she whereas only 61 years old. was 30 when she died but she did get to see me as a professor at stanford. the christmas before she died gave her my very first book, which was not on "the new york times" bess best seller. my dissertation, and neither of
those countries actually exist anymore, and so i gave her the book so she saw me become a professor. my father knew that i'd become national security adviser. he died shortly before i left for washington association you're an only child. >> yes. >> so am i and you know the pressure of being an only child. >> yeah. that's why i'm a sports fanatic but a that way new father's passion, and a music fanatic, because that was my mother's passion. when you're an only child you have to satisfy both. >> let's talk about democracy around the rest of the word. the united states has a democracy, not perfect. you talk about the soviet union and russia, obviously your a subject you know about. you point out democracy broke out in russia after the bolshevik revolution and after gorbachev was in power. why did democracy disappear? >> one thing i think to do in
the book is to dismiss one explanation you sometime get about russia, the russians don't have the right dna for democracy. just don't believe there are any people on the face of the earth who aren't capable of democracy. david you foe we have used cultural arguments so the germans were supposed to be too martial for a democracy, the asians could confusion, and you south korea and japan. the africans were too tribal but you have ghana and kenya, going through a very interesting period in home democracy. latin americans, men on horseback and now there's brazil and chul he and columbia and african-americans were too child-like to care about about that thing called the vote but we have had a black president, black attorney general, attorneys general, we have had black sects of state. so, i just reject this cultural argument and with the russians
you get it all the time. they just like strong men. but really what the story is, it's the story of the failure of institutions to take hold under enormous pressure. if you think about the collapse of the soviet union and the kind of rapid effort to build capitalism, 50% of the russian population fell into poverty practically overnight. the country broke apart overnight. and unfortunately, their first president, borish yell sin, -- boris yeltsin, instead of strengthening the institutions and working through them, he starts to rule by decree. he weakened the judiciary, that presidency, really strong presidency in russia is one thing. when vladimir putin becomes president, that same very strong
presidency now net hand of somebody with authoritarian instinct. so the russian failure is a story of the importance of institutions. you can't depend on single person. >> you don't see putin as jeffersonian democrat. >> i don't think you would confuse him -- i know him pretty well. i spent 0 -- >> does he speck english. >> he was learning english from the time we came into office and his english is now issue understand, passible, but i would chat chat with him in russian but he kind of liked me at the beginning, think, because i was a russianist, but i remember sitting women him when i was secretary and he said, condition diyou know us, russia has only billion great when bit been ruled by great men, like peter the great alexander 2en in. so do you mean vladimir the great and you can't do because
you're secretary of state and that would be rude but that's who he thinks he is, reuniting the russian people in greatness, and i think that instinct has led him to destroy all of the kind of institutional constraints on the presidency, the independent judiciary, free press, civil society. >> the chance of his voluntarily stepping down is slim? >> i think so. the thing about regimes like that, they're vulnerable and you don't know that they're brittle until something happens. we have to remember that the only district that vladimir putin did not win in the fraudulent election of 201 was moscow. that tells you something about how he is viewed in the cities. >> let's talk about another country that joins russia, poland. poland, democracy did break out in poland and what is the state of democracy in poland today. >> poland is a store that we
should try and emulate. poland is a story of having institutions in place when what call the democratic opening comes. solidarity, nationwide labor union, under electric la win -- electric -- was underground and had been sustained be the vatican and village priests, the afl-cio, which was sustaining as the labor union, and ronald reagan's cia. kind of an interesting troika. now, gauche -- gorbachev comes to power, the democratic transition was earer in in poland than almost anyplace else now. in poland it's still a young democracy. it has for the first time a very strong centralized executive,
and you're starting to see a kind of erosion of the independence of the judiciary, the independence of the press, but people are fighting back. civil society is mobilized on social media against these moves of the -- call the law and justice party, the president's party, and the president, president dudeas, had to veto a law he sponsored that would have gone a long way to undoing the independence of the judiciary so don't count out polish democracy. >> you rite resident ukraine. they flirt evidence with democracy. what is the state of democracy in ukraine right now. >> ukraine is a sad situation because if you are trying to build a democracy with a very watchful and assertive and aggressive neighbor that is in the process of taking your territory and making the eastern half of your country unstable, it's kind of hard to build a
democracy. they've made some progress. bore slen co, the -- bo reshenko is trying to build a democracy and they've made some moves on corruption. some young people in the legislature that are determined to deliver democracy and it's a vibrant society in its western part. the problem for ukraine is with the trouble friday eastern ukraine -- you don't read much about them but people are dying every day in eastern ukraine as the russian separatists, supported by the russian armed forces, causing problems. so ukrainian democracy is on a knife's edge but it's not an authoritarian regime either and that's something to celebrate. >> as long as putin is in charge of russia you don't see eastern ukraine going back to ukraine and crimea going back? >> crimea i think is going to be
very hard. one reason i warranted to -- wanted to write this book was to talk about the role america can play in supporting democracy. we have a tendency -- i take some responsibility for this -- to associate democracy promotion with what happens in iraq and afghanistan. those were extremely stressful situations where we had a security problem and later on tried to help build democracy. but most of the time democracy promotion is much simpler and less complex youch think about the way that we dealt with the baltic states so the 45 years that they were under soviet occupation, david, when i was the special assistant for soviet affairs i had a stamp and it said the united states does not recognize the forceful incorporation of the baltic states states into the soviet union, and when you mentioned lithuania
estonal 0 laugh via, you stamped that. we could anything about the russians but we stood for the principles, in crimea we have to stand for the principles even if we can't do anything about it. we have to stand for the principle that the i annexation was unlawful. >> you mentioned iraq and afghanistan and i want to talk about the middle east and democracy be but where were you on 9/11? >> i was in national security adviser on philadelphia, nine -- i was at my desk. a staff member came and said a plane hit the world trade center imthought that was a strange accident i. called president bush who was in florida at an education event. he said, that's a strength accident. keep me informed. a few minutes later i was having my staff meeting, and somebody hands me a note said a -- second
plane hit the world trade center and we knew it was terrorist attack. went into the situation room to reach the national security principles. colin powell was in peru at a meeting of the organization of american states. george ten net, the cia director was in a bunker and he said we can't reach secretary rumsfeld. his phone is just ringing and ringing. about that time they came and said, you have to get to a bunger because planes are buying into building over washington, dc. when the secret service wants to escort you, thaw don't actually escort you. they pick you up and they carry you so i remember being kind of levitated toward the bunker, i said i have to make a phone call. called my aunt and uncle in berming hamp and thin called president bush and said you can't come back here, the united states is under attack. the rest of the day was dealing with the reality that american security would never be the
same. >> so on afghanistan, that's been in the news lately, our longest war, 16 years, you see any solution in the near term? >> i'm worried about afghanistan. i have always said that what the -- the point we have to get to somehow in afghanistan was that the afghans were able to prevent the taliban frommen existential threat against the afghan government. thought wow would have rem anyones of the taliban that would be hit and run terrorists here and there. but that they've an baseball to carry out bolder attacks, closer to the capitol, even in the international zone you have to wonder how well we're doing and getting to that place of stability, and so i think the decision by the president and by secretary mattis to try to really stablize the military situation is one that i support, but eventually there's going to
have to be a political solution in afghanistan, and i suspect that's going to have to involve pakistan, which is a really big part of this problem because the pakistanis aren't really convinced that a stable afghanistan is in their interests and they've got be made to help stablize that territory, and we are talking about democracy knowledge it's temporary tough, afghanistan was the fifth poorest country in the world at 9/11. but it is at least a place now where girls go to school, in large numbers. it is a place now where women are not beaten in a soccer stadium given to the taliban by the u.n. it is a place where men are not lashed because they don't wear beards. it's not a place that harbors terrorists, and so i think we have had some achievements in afghanistan, but, yes, i'm
concern. >> democracy in iraq, we have made flowing and what went wrong after the invasion of iraq. >> well, talk a lot about the iraqi case because i lay out several different scenarios of what the circumstances are, when the democratic opening comes. in poland you have institutions in place, or colombia where you have institutions that were weak but there the worst situation is when you have had a cult of personality, tyrannical leader, where everything had been at the service of that leader. that was saddam hussein. and so there were effectively no institutions to think of or we thought underneath him, and so the distance between people's desire, now that they've overthrown the dictator -- we have overthrown the dictator -- and the institutions there to
channel those passions, there's a great distance and don't have much time. i relate in the book that we made a lot of mistakes. we undervalued the potential for the tribes, the sunni tribes to play an important role. we didn't understand the tribes. when we got back if the surge in 2007, the tribes were a big part of defeating al qaeda in iraq itch of. we didn't fully understand the implications disbanding the army, which wasn't supposed to take place and i describe that in the book, and so in the fog of war a lot happens one thing i'd like people to understand about iraq is we need go to iraq to bring democracy to iraq. that's an urban legend. it isn't true i. went to iraq because we thought we had a security problem in saddam hussein i would never head said
use american military force to bring democracy to iraq or afghanistan for that matter. but once you have overthrown the dictator, you have to have view about what comes after, and the president and his advisers believed we had to try to give the iraqi people a chance to build their democracy. now, a lot of bloodshed, a lot of lives lost, that will never be able to bring those people back. i will say that as the iraqis now are on the verge of defeating isis, you're beginning to see that the iraqis do have some democratic institutions, they have a prime minister who is conditionable to them, there are people mosting and not shot in the streets. you don't have mass graves of the kind that saddam hussein put people. in iraq's big challenge is going to be can the country hold together with the kurds who for a long time have wanted to be an independent people that's the big challenge for the
iraqis. but they do have some institutions i think can help them. >> the arar spring was supposed to produce democracy in the middle east. talk about syria. not having democracy anytime soon. >> identity rather be iraqi than syrian. -- share al-assad is unfortunately -- go going to be heard to get him out of power because the russians, who have people on the ground, want him in power. eventually if he is going to go it has to be the russians to make the decision. the revs of the middle east, i'm not ready to give up on them finding a way to a democratic institution. we get very impatient with people when they're trying to find their way to democracy, and we say, either they just don't get it, or look at all those -- the muslim brotherhood, and forget, our own history of
democratization is a long one and tough one guy say, use the polish example, try to plant some seeds for democracy. there are entrepreneurs who are people on whom you might build further democracy. there are civil society groups, women's groups. tunisia is an example of where a national labor union and women's civil society groups have actually managed to bring about something that looks like a nascent democracy. so i'm giving up. >> egypt, after mubarak there is a movement toward more democracy in egypt? no in egypt, the egyptian military rulers look an awful lot like military rulers, but underneath, again, there are civil society group wiz ought to be supporting to try to help. what happens in the middle east
is that at the moment when you have a chance for a democratic opening, the strongest institutions are often the radical islamists. why is that? it's not an accident. it's because leaders like mubarak destroyed the foundation of more liberal institutions and parties who might have been a foundation of democracy. but they didn't destroy the radical islamists who organized and radical mosques so they were the best organized when elects came. we have to hem more liberal forces be organized when opportunity comes. >> then on the middle east, israel. either a one-state solution or two-state solution itch if you have a one-state solution can you have democracy? >> now. think for israel to remain a democratic jewish state, it has to have a democratic-palestinian
state. i'm a believer in two-state solution and eventually they have to get there. >> talk about in the gulf states. the gulf cooperation council countries. you don't think i assume that democracy will break out there, or should. >> there's a monarchy and have varying degrees of liberalism toward issues like women's rights and varying degrees of liberalism toward the marriage of religion and politics. but some interesting things were happening there anyone a place like saudi arabia. they have basically now had a generational shift, and a -- the majority of the people studying in university in saudi arainy, in their great university but by king abdullah, are women. they're going ha of the hand interesting test. can you educate women at this
level and still tell them they can't drive? >> find out. so, far east you. point out that authoritarian governments, while not perfectly jeffersonian democracies, can actually have some good democratic features and you site singapore. >> singapore, first of all very small. when people seau her to tarean, they have two examples. china, the largest country n the world, and singapore, one of the smallest. singapore was fortunate. it had a wise man leader, and it was at time when democraticview view others were not very -- very obvious in most of asia, and he turned out to be a truly wise leader. but the problem is you better
hope that the next one is benign and then that his son benign and his son every is benign because you don't always get lucky. we have this tendency to hold democracy to higher standards than we do authoritarians. so there are all kind of really bad authoritarian leaders. venezuela. the toedat author tearans are better because the deliver for this people. the china deliver but they're running out of steam. singapore delivered but so many author tearans that didn't cliff that he hold democracy to higher standards. >> china you don't expect that jeffersonian democracy will break it. >> no, but i will tell you something about china. china is about to have an interesting test. china's economy grew rapidly,
500 million people out of poverty. it's a miracle but did it with heavy exports, lead, economy, being the lowest cost of labor provider, they did it with a command economy, a lot of state-owned enterprises. they can't get growth out of this model any longer. now they have to free up market forces. when you free up market forces there's a kind of mismatch between this market forces and a top-down authoritarian political system. this question is how long before there's a clash office though. china had 186,000 riots report riots. not because somebody was out protesting for democracy. but because a peasant would find that a party leader and a developer would seize their land, they had no courts to go to, so they'd go riot.
so even chines leaders will say, now, we need independent courts so that doesn't happen. how long is it before independent courts become an independent judiciary your getting a difference in the institutional landscape in china. i gave a university in a great university in china think indicate their cross between harvard and stanford. and i wanted to give a talk that was not about u.s.-china relations. gave the same talk i would give the stanford students, find your passion, do something hard, et cetera, it's. the questions blew me away. the questions were, i'm an engineer. whoa die need to take literature? what do you dive your parents don't like the majors you have chosen? i thought, these are chinese kids? they're questioning in this way? how long is it before questioning your parents' choice of your major becomes questioning your government?
and so i think there are lot of trends in china that it me a lead -- at least to liberalization, if not to democratization. >> i have to ask you about another place where i don't expect jeffersonian democracy do break out which is north korea. >> yeah, that's a ways away. >> if you were advising the current president over the united states or any president, who would you -- what would you tell him to do about north korea? >> this is the most dangerous situation that we face. when i was secretary we tried to negotiate with kim jung ill, jim jung ewan's father to denuclearize the country. made some progress but they wouldn't live up to the grandmas and we walked of the talked. ever since they've been on a rapid course of improve thing bomb design, honor vesting fuel, and increasing heir -- the range of their delivery systems.
no american president can tolerate a somewhat unhinged north korean leader, because if he is not crazy, he is reckless. somebody who reached into masala should, killed his half brother who was under china protection and he is reckless. no american president can tolerate that leader we the got a reach the united states. what the administration is trying to do and i support what they're trying to do, is they're painting a very bleak picture for the chinese. that's the only country with any real leverage on the north koreans. the chinese have never really been willing to use their ledge fully because they worry that the regime could collapse, then they'd have unstable law and order other and would have refugee flows. what the administration is saying to them, your choice now is either we do something about the north korean problem or you do something, and hopefully that will get through to the chinese because the military solutions
here are not very pretty. >> so, it's a missile -- came gear guam would you think we would still have to wait more chinese to do something? >> i think at some point the american president -- i'm not inside so i don't know what he is being told about how long he has, but at some point, threatens guam and firing missiles over japan, we are getting close to the president having to make a decision. i will note that when kim jong-un came out and said he was going attack guam, the chinese must have talked to him because want it few days he said, maybe he wouldn't attack guam simple think they do have the chinese attention. just question of what they're willing to do. >> you colorful africa and you talk about kenya and there's an election going on now. let me ask you about south africament you met with mandela
and knew mandela. why has democracy not work as well after mandela. >> he was a remarkable man. never met anybody who i was more inspired or found more impressive. the said to george w. bush when president bush asked him, said why don't you run for another term? said i wanted my africaon brothers know it was okay to step down from office, and on a continent that had too many presidents for live, this is an important state. it's a story of institutionses. essentially single party system under the african national congress. somehow man mandela's great authority was never transfederal into institutions but the institutions are still there, it's just that it's been hard to really deliver through them. first presidents matter. the united states of america was pretty lucky that george
washington actually didn't want to be king. i don't know how manyoff you have seen hamilton. it's really a great show. but it becomes very clear that we got lucky with the particular combination of founding fathers we had, and many places have not been that fortunate. >> you write about latin america and columbia -- colombia and the -- the military hewn taz are gone but what happened to venezuela, hugo chavez happened. you can gate really bad leader who doesn't get checked by those around him, with considerable oil wealth. the oil curse is real. when i was secretary of state, the price of oil went to $147 a barrel. empowered people who try to buy elects across latin america and
he destroyed all of the really important institutions, the opposition. he was defeated by somebody who is -- without charm and i think without travis' street smarts and ma dare rojas taken the country down. i hope that this is one for the organization of american states, the latin american states need to be all meador ya to do something because it's sad when a middle income country can't find foot or medicine. >> we have never had an african-american female president? ever thought that -- [applause] >> thank you very much but, no. you have to know your dna. i was on the campaign trail with
george w. bush. we would go to five campaign events. at the end of the day he was raring to go i just needed to get back to the hotel. peel who draw energy from the process. i don't so much. i've never liked politics. i love dish do love policy. the other thing is, my polling is what i do. i love being a professor. i love teaching millenials. they're a challenge. they're wonderful. the they dom me and say, want to be a leader and say, that's not a job description, and it's not a destination. let's talk about what you are going learn and know. so somebody will follow you. and then my other favorite line, want my first job to be meaningful. and i say, your first job is not going to be meaningful. it's going to be your first job. what will be meaningful is somebody will pay you do it for the first time. that's meaningful.
so i got my work cut out for me. >> you don't want to run for office. suppose some president came along again and said, you did a great job as secretary of state. do it again? >> you should never try to go home again. i had an amazing alignment of the stars. president who told the -- tell leader -- we grew up together he would say women start out when he was just leaving the governorship of tested and he trusted me and i admired him. a time of consequence for the country. i have agreedss a mr. racing for people -- admiration for people in public service. it's hard. tried to hard with any studented not let them be cynical about public service. i served as secretary of state. the foreign service and civil
service people who work in the state department, not to mention the more than 30,000 foreigns who staff our embassies around the world, are some of the most dedicated people you'll ever find. so i was honored to lead them and i loved being the nation's chief diplomat and nothing like get august the plane that said united states of america and thinking what ick do to represent this great country, but i'm done. >> you stepped down as second of state you handed the reins over to another woman, human hillary clinton. what was is like, one female secretary of stayed, handing it over to another female, saying we don't need these guys anymore? >> so, madeline, colin, myself, and hillary,ed had been 16 years since there was a white male secretary of state, and so we were saying, hmm, don't know. maybe we'll have to do also affirmative action here and see what happens. no it was great.
and it's a nice little club, the secretaries of state. the being of dean of the secretaries of state is george schultz who is 97 years old. a great mentor. 'll tell you a story. he had a birthday party for henry kissinger who turns 94, and the two of them did 20 minutes walk around the world, no notes, completely coherent. i don't know but i'm sure hoping it was something in the water at the state department. so, it's amazing people. >> is a remember, heard from the party, george schultz something i something to be 94 again. >> the said -- from his pound of view, henry was stale promising -- still a promising young man. >> looking back on your career, what are you most proud of having done.
>> with the caveat that history takes a long time to judge, think i'm most grateful that we stood up for the rights of people to live in freedom. i know that there were a lot of cynics and a lot of criticism, and some of it totally justified about the freedom agenda, and declaring that america's -- one of america res most important purposes was to work hard so that no one would live in tyranny. but i think america is at its best, its highest calling, when it lead both in power and principle. when we stand for proposition that the rights we enjoy are universal, and if they're universal, there are no people for whom they shouldn't be secured, and so i'm very grateful we were able to do that. when i think back on my travels,
it was always when it was about people, and a couple things stick out in particular. i went to china after the great earthquake there, and a little boy, couldn't be more than 12 years old, said you're that lady from the united states,aren't you? i said, yes, am. then, just with people asking me, what was it like to be a woman representing the united states in the middle east where women are second class citizens. one story sticks in my mind. had a very difficult meeting with a shia cleric, very conservative, who couldn't touch me because i was woman outside of his family. and at the end of the meeting very difficult meeting in iraq, he said, will you do me a favor. didn't speak english. a favor? really? sure. he said, my 13-year-old granddaughter watches you on television and she loves you, and she and her mother are coming to the state us you meet them? so on that day this little
13-year-old girl comes in in a pink t-shirt that says princess, and she walks up to to me' in perfect english and says i want to be foreign minister, too, and i thought, you know, there something something in that moment, very consecutive grandfather beamed when he thought about the little girl. this problem, this progress that we try bring through democracy, justice and equality, it's a long, long, long road, and people have traveled that road for a long time, america traveled it for a very long time and we're still working at it. so, the thing i'm most grateful for is that even with our own troubles here in the united states, we stood for the proposition that every man, woman and child should live in freedom. >> i wouldn't highly recommend to everybody here this book, which i enjoyed reading "democracy" and i -- [applause]
>> guest: i was asked to do the queen book, which took me about a nanosecond to say yes with realized that in 2012, was going to be her diamond jubilee and that would be a big deal, and i had always been fascinated by her and had written a biography of diana, princess of wales, and i thought here's a very inscrutable character. let's find out, pull the curtain back and fine out what she is like. and as i was working on that book, thought, well, there's an obvious sequel here and that is her heir, who is the oldest heir to the thrown in british history, who has waited longer than anybody else for the throne in british history and so i thought, even after writing about diana, write about the. >> realized there was a huge
amount that it didn't know about him and that he is complicated and compelling and in many ways the opposite of his mother. he has had so much to say over -- about so many things over so many years. it was like, containing this story and explain him and understanding him and what the influences were, all the way from his childhood, all of his mentors the experience, some of which were searing. 11 years that he was nicer diana, in a letter that nancy reagan showed me, he said it was greek tragedy. so he was just like a lab rings. -- will be labyrinth and i game away knowing he obviously is flawed as a human being, as well all are, but that he has done so many admirable things that
people don't really appreciate, and one of the most gratifying things when i have been out talking about him, is after i speak, people come up to me and say i had no idealism really admire him. obviously he made mistakes but has been a force for the good. winston churchill's son -- i -- daughter, his youngest daughter, about the queen and about prince charles and she was really fonds of prince charles and said i believe he has improved each shining hour in his wait for the throne, which was kind of a wonderfully churchillian thing to say. >> host: he's a politician, though, isn't it. >> guest: well, not a politician. he is a -- a charitable entrepreneur. he has over the years been very outspoken. he has tried in some ins to
influence public policy. certainly writing letters and as he himself would put it to harass politicians to try and persuade them of his point of view, particularly about climate change, the environment, sustainability and those kind of issues that are very dear to him but he has done lots are example to help poor farmers and trying to educate members of parliament on what kinds of things can be done to keep a lot of the small farmer -- to keep them economically viable. >> host: as a head of state how would his ryne reign be different than his mother's. >> guest: we'll have to see. he is a very different sort of person from his mother. i think he'll probably have --
even though his image is as a stuffed shirt, he is quite informal when he speaks. he is -- she is much more constrained. not going to be what some predicted he might become, which i an activist king, because by the very definition of being an activist king means you're taking positions on the issue of the day. if he were could do that, he would alienate a portion of the population. so i think he will use his convening power, which he has done very effectively. he got the heads of all the major chocolate manufacturers to come together for a meeting and they made an agreement to farm their cocoa more sustain by, could i see him as king doing something like that. it's not controversial, and i think he will play within the
lines. he knows what the limits are in a constitutional monarch. he knows that once he walks into buckleham palace and sits in the office, that hey has to take the advice of the people around him, including the people in the government, and his own advisers. he has made a career of the prince of wales by doing what he wanted to do starting his own initiatives, giving advice to other people. so he is going to have to change. going to have too have an attitude adjustment when he becomes king. think he recognizes that. >> host: will he have to wait for his mother pass or become -- snow to become king he has to wait for his mother to die. there's -- she will not abdicate. abdication is anathema to her. one, the abdication of her uncle
which put the monarchy in jeopardy, and the other is really goes back the core nation when -- coronation when she was announcedded with oil and made a sacred vow before god to serve her people until death and he has reiterated that pledge when she was 21 years old. she gave a wonderful speech from south africa and side i pledge to you i will serve you for the rest of my life, and then some years later she did a narration in a documentary, she said this is a job for life. now, the british are practical people. they have something called the 1937 regency act, and if the queen is mentally or physically incapacitated, there is a process that could install charles as prince regent. really acting with all the powers of the monarchy until his mother were to die. so that could happen but she
will not abdicate. >> host: has he been trained well to be king? >> guest: yes, he has been trained well. he understands the limits -- the constitutional strictures on him. he has had a lot of freedom as prince of wales, but particularly in the last ten years, i think people around the queen have been working with him and he's been introduced to the various duties and tasks that are -- that will become his responsibility. there's a period of transition right now. going to be a very vivid image of that on sunday, on remembrance sunday, where they honor the war dead and for the first time the queen is going to be an observer and not a participant, and he is going to lay his own wreath as well us a his mother's wreath. she is going to watch with the duke from the balcony, and that's kind of a symbolic
moment, but there have been other things the has been gradually taking on. public thing. she still inside the palace walls, still reading her boxes every day, doing all the things she is called upon to do as the head of state. she is still meeting with ambassadors, taking credentials, meeting with the prime minister every week, all those things, as long as she is mentally capable and physically able. she will continue to do that. but he will be much more the public face. he and his sons and his siblings, but mostly he and william and harry and kate and maybe somebody else. we don't know yet. >> you said at the beginning that you were asked to do the bioon qe ii. who asked? >> guest: the president of random house asked me at lunch. so, i took that as a definitive ask.