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tv   2018 Printers Row Lit Fest - Kerry Kennedy Robert F. Kennedy  CSPAN  June 9, 2018 9:00pm-9:48pm EDT

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jobs. all kinds of things. it was not really that bad. the fact is, i had to change my number. but then we made a plan. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. . . welcome to the 34th annual prince fast. i want to give you special thank you to all of our sponsors. it will be broadcast live on book tv. there will be time at the end of the session for q&a. we ask that you use the microphone off to the side so we can hear your important? before we begin the program we have for you turn off your cell
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phones. >> i am here is the former havana bureau chief for the chicago tribune. i was based there from 2002 until 2000 cell 2007 where my journal were pulled because of the human rights and other issues. wanted to begin by saying welcome to everyone here and it is ain great time to be talking about cuba. obviously with the death of fidel castro in the recent announced resignation of raul castro even from the top position in government and also the collapse of venezuela economically which has been the financial patron saint of cuba over the last couple of decadesc
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and the policies of the trump administration -- is an interesting time to be discussing cuba and the united states. i think that the questions remain is cuba in transition and if so , too what and what are the most effective policies for the united states in terms of encouraging the softening of the island's authoritarian government and state dominated economy. we are fortunate here to have the greatest experts, i think, i cuba here. one is a writer and one a diplomat. he's a cuban-american author in journalist whose work is focused on the personal and national identity issues and she is written for or five novels now, six district poetry and other great works and currently a
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professor at mills college in the bay area. she is a very dear friend of mine and is someone i go to whex i need something obscure and complex explain to me about cuba which is pretty much everything. vicki huddleston is a retired us foreign service officer meaningi she's a diplomat whose last assignment was us deputy assistant secretary of state for african affairs. most importantly for this panel she was chief of the us intersection in havana from 2000 sorry, from 1999 until 2002 and we overlapped for a couple months. she was also the coordinator of the office of cuban affairs at the state department. she's the author of the recent book our woman in havana which provides insight look at theow shaping of us policy toward cuba from the most critical moments of the last two decades. i like to welcome you both and weta would start with vicki.
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did you ever suffer hearing loss, concussive symptoms, nausea or other ailments during your time in cuba and we are laughing but this is a very serious matter and i really want to know what your thoughts on this and also your thoughts on the trump administration's response to this. >> well, i could talk all day on that. on the bad days but let's begin at the beginning there are listening devices everywhere and i could look up at my beautiful office window which is on the fourth floor overlooking the caribbean and see the cameras and the listening devices pointed right at me and that i could go home to one of the nicest residences in the world
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but obviously the right seats in cuba were really close in cuba was really important so we built it in this beautiful residence and on the floor where we hung out there is a loving balcony and off the balcony i can look over to the backyard to the other house and pointed at me once again were the listening devices. they are listening devices in all her homes not in the embassy or intersection as it was then but in the residence there is so many listening devices that we don't even look for because if we took them out so on a bad day when i was annoyed with the cubans i would say, yeah, probably i will leave here andin don't have a mind left. [laughter] but in all honesty first of all we handled this thing really badly. senator marco rubio turned it in
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to a wedge to destroy the relationship because he was noth really completely happy with president trumps response. president trump had told the conservative cuban americans community that he sided with him and went to miami and made a fiery speech and canceled obama's opening but he did not do too much. he left the travel in place and his major effort was no financial transactions with the cuban military or interior he was looking for a wedge and those injuries to our diplomats, 23 or 24 of them into ten of the canadians was just what he was looking for. without knowing who did it, why
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it was done, he persuaded trump, who essentially turn us policy towards cuba over to senator rubio, a hardliner cuba that we should force the cubist to draw down their embassy and we would draw down our embassy. when i was there we were the biggest diplomatic missions in cuba now we have ten diplomats and there is no consequence in movies has been issued to cubans who were coming up to the united cstates and seeing friends and family and giving great performances but also bringing back televisions radio and occasions equipment to change. ntit was just a great political ploy especially the state department made a travel warning knowing full well that american visitors were not in danger in
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the a canadians in contrast did not make any kind of announcement like that in about one year later they pulled out and said at the same time they are -- >> are you saying there is no sonic attack or are you just saying the response is by the trump administration overreaching? >> it was overreaching and cracked and issued by the cuban community to recapture us policy toward cuba which is essentially a captured policy. yes, there were sonic injuries and were there were injuries, i'm still not sure they were sonic but here is the best explanation e i can give you. cuban listening devices are likely chinese made and we just had the incidents in our consulate in china that are exactly the same injuries.
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that would point towards the fact that these may well be chinese assigningni devices that were in china and also in cuba. plus, there's a university of michigan study that says that when there is more than one a room thenvice in they can collide at a higher frequency and cause injury. >> but even if they are chinese made listening devices the cuban government installed them and should they not be held responsible for this and isn't it unacceptable? >> well, it depends on how they're held responsible. certainly they should. for example, raul castro e-mail he said he was horrified and he would cooperate and the fbi came down three or four times but yes, if they knew it was a listening device they probably should've owned up to it and said they are terribly sorry and pay expenses or whatever. it seems that most of the
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injuries have now with medical help been remedied and that they have not been permanent. the cuban government did not do what it should have done but no surprise because we have a hostile united states led by cousin trump and marco rubio in the cubans get their back up against the wall which is always the case start saying with something like "star wars" and there's no injuries and it's mass hysteria which clearly is not.hi there have been studies that point out that these were real injuries. >> i want to start with a question for you, as well, unless you want to comment on this. >> i want to sayay that i suffed hearing loss in havana. it was weird. the first time i stayed close to the embassy and literally from one day to the next so? [inaudible] >> but there's no injuries within the embassy because the
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embassy is secure. >> these place at houses. >> yes, had a couple hotel rooms. >> but there are houses in the area , too. >> i want to start with a question for you as well, do you think this is considering the context for what is happening in cuba now do you think this is a moment of hope for cubans and cuban americans are just another moment? >> i think it is just another woman. the major problem with cuba well, if is twofold. they have this incredibly centralized economy there never letting go ofnt and while that economy is completely centralized it's also completely dependent on someone else and it's been dependent on venezuela and the soviet union and before that we can do the history in
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cuba has been economically dependent and has nothing to do with the revolution. it's the history of cuban economy but we've never been economically independent sovereign andll so this has created all these first and trusted relationships with mentor countries. we've now lost the latest mentor country, i.e. venezuela. and there is no one in sight. i think the great hope is there would be a reconciliation with united states and as a result there would be possibility of some economic treaty that would help bring cuba more into a freer, more controlled capitalism but in fact that hasn't happened and will not happen certainly under trunk. i agree with you that marco rubio has hijacked policy and that will never happen. in fact, it's a a sad time for
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cuba and everything i hear from my friends and people who are still there and traveling back and forth is that things are quite tough economically and that things are again quite scarce and also, the policies against the dissidents which under raul have been different a from the doubt. the dell ignored you until the slaughter you after you into jail for 30 years. raul wears you down and keeps arresting you are letting you go arresting you and letting go. that stuff wears back out of people and there is tremendous despair. especially again with the change of policy which happened under obama of the dry foot wet but
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that just does not allow people come. >> is there any time that people are talking about russia and china coming in for venezuela and is there hope on that or not and do you think that is something that that will do. >> likes china and he's always like china and i don't think they will -- cuba is an economic buckle. soviet union was pulling a million bucks and a million a day and a million a day and i -- >> i disagree. let's look for a moment. russia has provided a take a load of oilo cuba and russia has taken over the alien refinery venezuela used to be running so russia is clearly interested in china is the major trading partner and investor in cuban more than the eu combined and the critical thing here is russia and china are the major source of military government, mentoring for the cuban military which is good and the russians have talked about it but i have not heard if they've reopened
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the satellite stays at san antonio but here is what i think might be going on. it is always nice to have a foothold for russia and china ie the western hemisphere and that was certainly proven to be true during the missile crisis because in essence the end of the missile crisis came about because the united states will their missiles from turkey and soviet union pulled theirs from china. now we have china and russia back with no leavening because i grew too. raul thought we could leaven this with trade and things from the united states and now i think china in particular which is always looking for oil is using cuba as the steppingstone to oil-rich venezuela. >> that is interesting. >> that's a strange strategy. [laughter]
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does china really need to use cuba as a steppingstone to venezuela? maduro is hungry for any arrangement. cuba has no oil. cuba -- >> but it should have and it's still not -- >> they been talking about that for generations. [inaudible conversations] >> but the chinese stepping into [inaudible] >> their deeply embedded in venezuela. what pronoun should i use? >> we both have mentioned senator marco rubio and with the way you are describing us policy now is if as you do in your book were c in the 1990s and 2000 and when the hardliners in miami and the cuban american national
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foundation and others are essentially controlling us foreign policy towards cuba but this is 20 years later and the demographics have changed and have the politics changed? >> yes, they have changed but unfortunately the conservativeco portion of the republican party that is the cuban-american wealthy people belong to in miami have enough clout that they went to canada in canada trump and said we will support you if you support us and for a republican in general it is best to be a hardliner on cuba in florida and certainly in south florida. i think the great example was earlier this president clinton with was a candidate for his against hw bush who was running for his second term and he had been hesitant about supporting the cuban democracy act which
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was about food and medicine from us subsidiaries in america and the cuban national foundation really wanted this legislation because they thought with the loss of the soviet subsidy castro would fall in the cuban people would not rise up. hw bush did not want to endorse this legislation and who do you think went in to endorse the legislation? bill clinton because it is just such a wonderful source of money in financing and that is exactly what donald trump did as well. >> that's been seen in the last couple actions and they are voting democratic and right now there is from my understanding a plurality of cubans as registered as democrats versus republicans. there are people now who are educated in the united states we have a sense of a civics in
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terms of us concepts of ,emocracy and who think in terms of civil rights and who think in terms of more moderate foreign policy and those people are not going to vote -- we have seen it. they did not vote for the republicans and they're not voting for the republicans. it's these older [inaudible] who are still voting for for the right wing extremist but those are people dying off. >> i'd like to believe you and i like your theory but but look at marco rubio. he's young. >> he had tremendous money and opposition and trump was interested in having them come up. they needed to save the senate
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so everything was ported to that but i'm not sure who make it the next time. it depends entirely on the democrats but out. the problem is the democrats have not had good candidates in florida because of the democrat party talks in florida. is like the republican party in illinois. or chicago. you get a clown for the mayor for republicans because it don't have anybody. it's the same thing. >> your point is absolutely well taken. majority of cuban-americans support the opening that we should have a different policy but we have president trump and we have marco rubio and so we have the policy was again captured. keeps going cyclically like this and what happens then? it hurts the cuban people. >> i cannot agree more. >> was done in january i would say how you feel to the cuban people and some people would cry visite they couldn't their family and we would say to organizations that were putting
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on a beautiful dance performance are you going up to the states, no, we can't get visas and when i would ask them well, what do you think is the problem. so many said trump and used to be when you said what is the problem in 2002 it was fidel castro. >> and you talked about the west but, drive it policy and i thought that was a safety valve ivfor the cuban government so that's been illuminated and why haven't we seen, given the very dire economic circumstances and cuba why haven't we seen protests and singing any instability at all? i came to cuba in 2002 everyone was that she would be there when it happens when fidel dies and
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when the transition takes place will be exciting and how many diplomats and foreign correspondents have been there waiting for this to happen -- it never happens. now it's taken off the table and why hasn't there been the kind of instability, politically, socially that at least i would expect?'s >> one because the cuban government keeps everything just so pretty it's at a simmer. there are they are very good at maneuvering things so that this particular sector is getting unstable they will give you a little something to calm me down. when artis started getting his stuff about the fact they cannot earn a certain money and they managed to change the policies so that being an artist in cuba was a favorable thing and ttting because you live for free and earning dollars. they do that with differentnt sectors of society and that is one thing. they're fantastic that particular strategy. the other thing is, again, historically cuba was the last
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spanish colony to free itself from spain. cuba does not have a history of great rebellion. i know the revolutionary myth is that where these great -ationalists and were these great independents but history shows that we rarely get up and fight. were big talkers. [laughter] we don't really -- we don't have a history of it. look back. look at the dictators and look back at the american intervention that happened in cuba. look at how in the late 19thab century the us basically stole the war of independence from cuba and the cubans were like okay, sure, cool. there's resentment and a lot of, you know, come get it emotions about these things but we don't have a real honest history of rebellion. >> i think, too, the embargo.s the embargo helps because that can be the scapegoat and i think if we had a better policy and if
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we got rid of the embargo then other countries -- >> i will disagree with you on that. >> okay let me finish. we don't have a comprehensive unilateral embargo against any other country in the world, not against syria that gases its people or not iran or north korea and we have some with north korea but just gives cuba that is in no way a threat to united states and it is in our neighborhood.go we presumably have an embargo, a conference of embargo, because of human rights or and we don't do that against anybody else. it is clearly an unfair and unjust policy that hurts the cuban people. get rid of that and then you can work with the region and furthermore if you don't like what cuba is doing at human rights or venezuela you can put on targets and sanctions because
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that's what we do in syria, korea, iran and you hit the bad guys and youit raul castro who ever you believe to be responsible and so we don't have a policy that works. we have a failed policy. >> i cannot agree with you more in terms of the embargo. it's inhumane and useless and has not worked. i don't think the embargo in any way, shape or form plays any role in whether cubans rise up or not. for starters, most young cubans think it's a joke. they have been hearing about it there whole lives and it has no effect. it's completely -. a no one gives a damn about it. there's an immunity that you developed this t idea that the embargo is what is screening that. >> i wonder if that is unchanging because now cubans
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can't get visas because of the change in policy. >> i think it's too soon for it to have -- >> and then, it's thinking because they are really discouraged about not being abl- >> i agree, i agree. >> and the second thing is with the end of the wes what but, dre it, you can't get out. catch stay in so i think and i began to -- >> you have to maneuver otherwise yes, and you still get to the border. and your children can be taken from you. how bad is that? but i think we might see another mass migration. >> we might. it depends. that was more fidel castro strategy. i'm not sure it's raul's strategy. who knows? he's a complete? we don't know much about him other than he was a prot├ęge of rodriguez and he's been around forever. >> so, have we already -- has a question already been answered can cuba's one-party system
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survive without castro's or is it too early to say that and roll is still head of the cuban military and head of the qmmonest party and the two mosi powerful organizations in cuba or has aggression been answered or not? what do you think? >> in think it can survive particularly because of us policy. i think as long as were in power ,in cuban and we had americans coming down and staying in these [inaudible] anything in private restaurants and binds veneers and there were 600,000 and i guess there still are people in the private sector you can hope for change and people were traveling more and more freedom to speak and things like that. to me is the way the cuban government will change is when people speak out when they begin to lose some of that fear and then you will have a widening of the cuban communist party so
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that you can have dissent within the party. >> i actually think that the party made it very smooth transition from fidel to raul. i think it was genius. >> it was slow-moving. >> it was like -- >> you know it was there and raul was absent. he did not appear for six months in public. >> right. infidel did not say this was a permanent change but we are just making us, you know, a little move here. >> what you think? >> i think this went fairly smoothly. i think the question is and i think it's an unanswered question what happens after he dies? that is for me the big question. then the to castro's that are left are alejandro, raul son and
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alberto the ex- son-in-law and those guys are both in positions of trend his power and alejandro is said to be ambitious and it's curious to me now how they willn maneuver that. i don't think he will aeo powern and of itself. >> you think he's a figurehead at this point and can be pushed aside? >> i don't know. it's interesting because the townspeople in high positions in cuba especially in the cultural sector and they find him mysterious and they don't knowmy if he is performing the party function and has potentially reformist ideas and they are hoping once he drops a step up k and be his own man but that he says he's very horrible things that are very, very old-school, cuban communist stuff so he's a mystery. people pretty up there seem to be confounded by him. the only thing i pocket about him that i keep in mind is his
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relationship with [inaudible] because he was the eminence, i can't, the great dark lord of the cuban revolution. i am not optimistic in my virtue of that. but who knows? i think after raul if any of the castro point to rise then this will go on for a while. ... whatever he said, i think he's more of a collective guy. you might know something different than i know. >> i buy onto a lot of that.
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i am more hopeful than you are. i think this family issue is difficult. -- [laughter] >> i am looking at the good side. i see as a politician, he is young, he was with the revolution as we all know. he is not military, he is not castro. >> he could've put in his son-in-law or son but -- >> no, i don't think he could have. >> i think he is been making these moves that are about being expansive. i mean, think about what he did when he came in. when he came in he actually got rid of a lot of those who had been in the cabinet. he had put in younger people. he put in more women. he put more afro cubans than fidel ever had. he really changed a whole lot
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of the look of the government. he actually started becoming more participatory. remember all of the conversations he was inviting people to have and the people actually went to the meetings. they said this sucks, this sucks, this sucks and they actually were having, it sounds crazy but this was not something that was common to have these public conversations. where you were able to say things are not working and it is problematic. i think he actually had a different idea. i think he wanted, plus i think again, historically, raul has always been focused on the island. while fidel was focused on the world. right? >> well, on the stage. >> les spent $230 million sending doctor to pakistan while we cut the chicken ration for the month of may. or whatever. so, i think he has always been very focused more on cuba than
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anyone else. >> i think, and getting the signal here. we will open up to questions. if anyone wants to step up to the microphone over there. >> while we're waiting for the first question can you explain the wet foot, dry foot term? >> who would like to take that? >> the cuban-american! you did not arrive by wet foot, dry foot. >> u.s. policy, something called the cuban adjustment act. which gave cubans unprecedented privilege in the terms of coming to the united states if you got here. you are automatically accepted that you will not be deported. it is a unique policy. and then i think it was clinton who made the wet foot, dry foot. right? which basically said that if you actually got to dry land, you could stay. but if you were in the water,
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they would return you.they were crazy cases. there was a guy hanging onto the pier. >> right! [laughter] was he actually on land? >> and the actually shipped him back. >> they did. >> and elian gonzalez was actually a victim of that. because he was hanging onto a raft. he got picked up so technically, he was wet foot. >> they brought him to miami. >> but he was brought to miami so he was a dry foot. >> he was the cuban moses. don't forget that. >> or something! and of course a five-year-old kid who's mother taught him to an inner tube before she drowned. but just to add one thing to wet foot, dry foot. before that, every cuban could come into united states and go through the cuban adjustment act and become a green card or
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-- >> a white cardholder. >> so they could have legal residence in the state. what clinton did after the 94 migration, the mass migration of 30,000 cubans was, have us meet -- come up with a plan that this migration, mass migration would not happen again. in the playoffs to say that cubans can't come to united states illegally and adjust that. they can come legally and adjust that as well. miami did not like that. so immediately, almost really days later, they changed it to wet foot, dry foot. which unfortunately, was very dangerous. because before cubans believe families would call up and say that juan will have left and so the coast guard will note were to find him.
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but now they cannot be found because they had to get here. >> they had to dodge the coast guard. >> many more died. it is not an easy crossing. >> right. and the cuban government denounced it saying it was encouraging mass migration essentially. you know, causing the deaths of as we know, thousands of cubans trying to cross the cuban streets. okay we are going to the first question please. >> thank you very much for taking my question. i am enjoying the show today. what i want to know is, the united states, what is it influenced by? is it a reaction to the bay of pigs still or is it because you say the cuban-americans have so much influence? also, shouldn't they be more influenced by national security? i mean, besides whatever is going on cuba. cuba is too close to the states will and shouldn't that be the defining reason for them doing
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something? >> vicky, do you want to take that? >> thank you, i love your question because i so much agree with it. we do not need the enemy 90 miles off the shore. our third closest neighbor. we should be working with cuba and the caribbean and central america to help bring this area up so that there is less violence and jobs and economic opportunity and cuba should be the center of this effort. but because of traditionally cuban-americans, which came out of as you referred to in the bay of pigs, that led to the missile crisis. cuban-americans essentially, were able to push their point with the republican party because after kennedy didn't provide the final support for bay of pigs, cuban-americans became republicans. then it became this really
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important block. so important that the democratic candidate like bill clinton would buy onto it. or if you want the really great example, it's al gore. clinton sent little elian gonzalez, who was found, taken to miami. back to cuba. the cuban-americans were horrified. you remember that great picture of the special forces and the jacket and the helmet with his m-16 haand little elliott gonzales in the closet scared to death. so he went back. the first thing happened that fidel undressed him up in a uniform. the cuban-americans went crazy. and they had -- >> right. it cost him the election probably. >> yes it cost al gore the election. all he did was 500 more votes. >> right. next question? >> also enjoying this very much. throughout the talk, we have
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heard comments over the political scene in both countries. i would like to know a bit more about bthe famous -- what is t feeling towards change there? do the cuban people have a strong idea of wanting the change? are they kind of fatalistic, like you said? or could you elaborate more on liquidity civil sentiment is? >> you can take that. >> yet again! >> i think there's great hunger for change. at the same time, i think there is this sense that every time change appears to be on the horizon, the horizon keeps getting further and hfurther away. and so, there is this sort of fatalism. also especially, before the wet foot, dry food policy was changed. there was a huge drain. a lot of i mean, people think
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that migration is only in the united states but is not. cubans are dispersed all over the world. they are huge cuban communities in spain and mexico and colombia and certainly venezuela. all dumpster to get out. and so, the desire for change is -- you have to understand that onlife in cuba is really difficult on a day-to-day basis. you can spend all day on just the most yominor task. you know? i had a girlfriend for many years who lived in cuba and we spent time in both countries. but when we were first getting together, we would talk on the phone and i would say, you know she was a what did you do today? and i would say i went to the gym, i did this, you know -- i
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got my car washed and went to work, do the laundry. what did you do? and she would say i bought a light bulb. and i was like, i'm sorry? and she would say, i bought a lightbulb. and i could not comprehend that. and then when i lived in cuba, i learned just hoincredibly difficult it is to get a lightbulb. you start at 6:00 a.m.. trying to figure out, where the lightbulb vendors might be. it could take you until 11! you know -- and i 11 have a problem with a cop that wants to see your id. and all you were doing was being a girl but they decide that you're a hooker. this will take you another two hours to get out of this mess. and then you're back to trying to find a lightbulb vendor. and then the lightbulb vendor has moved. now they are in another neighborhood in your defined transportation. i mean, it is just absolutely insane! and some of the situations are
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almost comic. you know? it just is a very wearing kind of existence. you can live on a minimal level.i have friends who live just at that level where they just do very little. and sometimes their lives seem sort of ideal because you talk about what you do today? i just read all day. land you say wow, i wish i cou read all day. [laughter] in the realist, they did that because they've completely given up on absolutely everything. and they are just sitting around. you know, it is just a very wearing and training assistance. >> although i would say wthat what i saw in october and january, that they were so much hope and people actually had a little bit more. i saw kids all just of uniforms are going to work in the
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restaurants. i saw lots of people selling souvenirs and things on the street. it just seemed to be like there was a lot more hope. >> i think there's a lot more activity. i am not buying that there's hope. >> now there is not hope! because of the change. >> i want to say, within the day-to-day living in cuba which i know because i lived there, there is greatness as well. great artists and great baseball players and great musicians and great ddoctors a great biochemists and there is greatness. >> absolutely. i am not denying any of that. i'm just saying it is wearing. i also want to say that i am one of these people who for the first three or four days in cuba everyone thinks i'm american because i am all stiff and then you know, on the fourth or the fifth day i get
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some sun, i lose my consonants and all is good. the way people talk to me is very different. you know, the first three or four days, there is a lot more optimism. and then by the fourth and fifth day -- >> did you go down after the obama opening? >> i have not.>>i know when that happened it was very different. there was tremendous flowering of hope and optimism. people were really moved. >> on national tv. >> yes the speech was a national tv. people know parts of the speech by heart which is really you know, moving to me. but after donald trump, you know, it came back down. >> wages back to the old punitive politics. >> let's go back to wellness question, please. >> i went to cuba as a tourist last year.
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what i saw was somewhat s controlled or managed but i left with the belief that the military really controls cuba. and certainly the leaders of the military control of the industry and major hotels and tourism. in my mind it tydoesn't matter whether it is any of the cash grows until the leadership will still come to the military ultimately. so i'm not sure that many of the policies we have had is really going to change that much as long as the military still controls all of the money. >> my real question is more philosophical. >> but it is a controlled military. role contains his commander of the armed forces. and the guy who runs the military corporate industrial complex, the ex-son-in-law with whom he is still very close. you know, this is i frequently
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told people that castro is sort of cuba's ceo because the military runs so much stuff that you don't imagine the military runs. they run hotels, rental cars, restaurants. they run everything! >> here is the thing. there is one really strong institution cuba that is the military. second behind is the party. so you have to have those institutions change. and how do those institutions change? they changed because edthey are forced to buy the economy. and that is when you begin to get some opening. that is when you have role letting 600,000 people going to the private sector and then let cubans travel without having to have permission in advance. that is what you have to have. you have to have economic reform. and that is possible. you have to have unification of
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the currency, a change in the way the bureaucracy operates. not this top-down bureaucracy. and i have believed that this might happen. with the obama/ castro opening. >> i was very helpful with that opening. i thought it was one of the most neamazing things that had ever happened. i mean i was like, wow! to me it was a must as big as -- but has been undone which is the problem. >> exactly. the policy that could have changed cuba, if not to an ally, at least two a respected or country that we could deal with that we could trade that the cuban people would eventually become more prosperous and have greater say and we lost that. and actually seemingly lost the whole region. because we don't have a policy
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toward the region. obviously, which is the awful immigration policy we have now with haiti, again trouble with no reply to or adequate reply to the tragedy in puerto rico. we just left this region, which is essential to the united d states security, kind of blunder on its own as we build our walls. >> on that up note, let's think our panel. [applause] thank you for attending today's program. books can be purchased outside the auditorium. thank you. [inaudible conversations]

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