tv After Words Tucker Carlson Ship of Fools CSPAN December 16, 2018 12:01pm-12:55pm EST
grab a copy of the book or books if you don't already have them and lined up against this wall. thank you so much. you have been fantastic. [inaudible conversations] >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was greater as a public service by america's cable-television companies, and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court and public policy bins in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> come up on "after words," fox news host tucker carlson offers his thoughts on elitism in america. he is interviewed by matt schlapp, chair of the american conservative union.
>> host: great to be with tucker carlson. i'm not used to this. the table has been turned. >> guest: it's a lot easy to ask questions. >> host: i did stay up late and really enjoyed your book. because what i find about good writing is that you pick it up quickly and you don't think about it as being onerous. you keep plowing through it which -- >> guest: nobody needs more to read. >> host: very few books you can get all the ones which it did. i think a testament to writing. i had the first question, i look at the cover art. we are all visual these days. you can judge the book by it's cover. i look to the cover and you've certain people on the cover. i expected this book to be your typical hey, republican party sometimes off-track and a little week. you didn't necessarily go into
personal criticism or professional criticism on republican leadership was much bigger than that. how did you pick was on the cover? >> guest: i'm not a visual, i'm aware of persons i think in pictures. i didn't have a huge role in that. they kind of picked the people to be on the cover. i haven't looked carefully who's on the cover. but no, it's not a partisan book. i've never been interest in partisan politics especially. i don't think there's anything wrong with that. it's democratic but it's not of great interest to me. i wanted to make the case of real debate is not about the parties and i think this last election in 2016 made that clear, , is a debate between different strata in society of people are benefiting from the current arrangement and people who are not. why wouldn't that be the dividing line? that's what it is despite all the tends to obscure that,
that's what we are fighting over witches who benefits from the systems we have placed. >> host: a good idea is just the parties which was refreshing because we get so much into red wave, blue wave. >> guest: the whole reason trump got elected is the normal rules became obsolete. >> host: thank god. >> guest: that's how i feel. maybe think of trump we needed a realignment along the lines that made sense. the republican party need to become a middle-class party and it wasn't, and now it increases is. the leadership of the party doesn't want to be obviously. it won it to remain with the onset and which is a party at management but is not the democratic party, the party of rich people. when i i was going to people is that the republican party was a country club party. my family can know, it's not the course it was. now pick a country club. go to greenwich and to a formal survey and deboer, who did you vote for? it's the hillary club now.
>> host: the other thing interesting about you, i did know you grew up in california. tell me about california. there that have an impact on your philosophy on politics? >> guest: a huge effect. i grew up in california. i was born in san francisco and went to los angeles and grew up in san diego county. >> host: talk about lawyer. >> guest: -- la jolla. >> guest: i i hope i'm not pretending to be this silent of middle-class are getting of you from coal country. i am from the world i'm writing about which is the world of well educated affluent people making decisions. that's to a grew up around who have always lived record i have good sense of their attitude. but california effectively in a bunch of ways. my family got to california in the 1850s, not that long ago by east coast standards but by wesco standards they never stop talking about it. they are proud be from
california. i grew up believing all this topic and how this is a great estate ever. this is the input of human civilization. this is a good as it gets. it really ends there. there's the ocean so it can't getting better for going into further than this. i believe that. it was demonstrable. it was the nicest day. i was born in 1969. in 1980 when i was in i was in fifth grade or whatever, i had the best infrastructure, largest middle class, the best schools. the best weather, the most attractive people, roaring economy. it really was as good as it never got in america. now in 2018, 38 years later later it has the most poverty, some of the worst schools. i think 48 for something something rather in schools. can't use the schools in most places in california. it has the highs percentage of welfare recipients, it's got crumbly infrastructure. it's too crowded. it's dirty, physically unclean. what's happened? if there's not a lesson there,,
then we're just not paying attention. >> host: how many like any family and friends were you unique to walk out of that with a conservative limited government constitutional type viewpoint, or whether a lot more people like that? >> guest: ronald reagan was from california. certainly had his career in california was governed as a state, i think when i was born. i went to reagan's last rally in 1980, the day before election at the racetrack in san diego county. that was reagan country. it was a conservative state. >> host: let me set a different way. california today vis-à-vis the california of her childhood seems like a different place. san francisco buttressing all these terrible pictures of the drug paraphernalia, the onslaught of homeless folks just doesn't seem recognizable.
>> guest: the critique of california is true, which is what really change was party idea. it went from a one-party state and that's true but that's not what interests me as much because politics is an outgrowth of different things. mostly economic trends. we in general have given up on seeing the world through an economic lens which is a a shae because i don't think economics is the explainer of everything but i think how much you make is a a huge part of the life you live and huge part of the decisions you make. economics is central to most peoples lives. it's not too my life because i make a lot of money i don't know what gas prices are actually. if you're making 80 grand a year and live in orange county it's a really meaningful question. what i'm struck by women return to california, spent last week there, is how much the economics of the state have changed. this is not a demographic, not a racial question but anything like that. it's a question of who is
benefiting from the economy. in that sense strictly in the sense it's a latin american arrangement we have the richest people in the world live in california, ballard is a richest neighborhood on planet earth and a peaceful place. i stayed there with friends when i was there. you have 20 minutes the way people living on the sidewalk. what does it remind you of? it remind you of caracas, , remd you of a latin america social and economic structure with a snow middle-class. it is pyramid shaped. the point i'm making is not that that's unfair. the lotions can debate whether that is there or not. i'm an episcopalian, the opposite basically. i making the case rooted and observable reality that that is an unstable system in a democracy. if you give everybody to vote but only a small percentage share in the spoils, everybody else will be angry and they are going to punish you with the political power they have and they will elect populists.
populism is always red alert that something is wrong in your democracy. donald trump's election is a warning of what if you think of trump, to the rest of us it is going in the wrong direction, the population could not get the attention of policymakers of elected trump as sort of break the glass in case of emergency. i'm going to let this orange guy, , maybe that will get your attention. they refuse to accept the message. what happens if they continue to refuse to change? you are going to wind up with a series of populace, maybe left-wing, maybe rightly but it doesn't matter. you're going to wind up with huge amount of volatility in your political system and it is going to wreck the country. it's important to respond or just suspend democracy. this whole one man one vote thing is not working, we don't have a population that can support it, they are not wise enough to make decision so we are going to revert to oligarchy and i'm sorry this experiment was great to hundred 50 years great run, now we run everything.
you no longer have a voice. that is an option. it took a civil war to get there but for being honest you could do that, or you think hard about how to franchise everybody. listen which is the first, acknowledged the problem, think deeply about the solution. that's will lead us to care about the people would already be doing but they don't care. they don't care. >> host: trauma so we places to go especially the statistics you pull out the book which are pretty alarming. the cold truth and the fact the percentage of middle-class who are pulling down the income in this country is dropped 20 points over the course of the last 50 years. that's a staggering number in things that the middle class will is. we say vanishing middle class but you can see it in the numbers. that's going at a political impact. they should be the largest percentage in society. >> guest: it has to be. you can have a functioning democracy for the reasons just noted without a robust and independent bourgeoisie,
middle-class. the system does not work. if we could talk to the people who wrote the county documents they would say it's prerequisite for the system to work. what i was struck by in doing research for the book was the middle class in the united states became a minority for the first time in living history and 2015. this was a huge story. the middle class is a minority? why is that not the headline? i'm in the news business, you think i would remember it. that didn't move on ap wire. nobody noticed because nobody can because the people writing the stories are often exactly e same class of people benefiting from our current economic arrangement. that's what i thought it's not a conspiracy of intent. it's a conspiracy of like mindedness. everybody making the decisions can everybody writing about the decisions is from exactly the same world. that is my world and it's a world where nobody you know is making less than after the
financial crisis. the rest of the country is much for. try from d.c. to pittsburgh and you try to towns of 10,000 people with no work, no car dealership. where did all the businesses go? >> host: the government literally shut down some of those car dealerships. >> guest: exactly. you know this is the core of our economy is a federal budget. you just don't have any sense of how poor american is. this is not the rich country would always talked about. drive around. i love to fish. i like to fly fish and i can't. i am in world america. if it were not for that i would have no tangible sense of what the country flight. i know i sound like tolstoy. i'm being honest. how the hell would i know? [inaudible conversations] we know what is in the swap. i've never had a year when
traffic got better. >> guest: the entrées never get cheaper. the schools become more expensive every year and hard to get into. the concentration of wealth in the city and no one ever notices it here, just it's more profound every year. the d.c. that i moved to when i was 15 was a completely middle-class city. the rich people, we lived in georgetown, right in the middle of the city. a democratic senator from a violent, i know the family. they are rich. inherited money. he drove a k car with bumper stickers all over it and masking tape holding a bumper on. he really went out of his way to pose as an ordinary person because you kind of have to. there was no ostentation in d.c. at all. that's changed. that's the measure of how out of touch the city is because we are rubbing it in the faces of the rest of the country.
>> host: you go through this in the book and you talk about the suburbs of the zip codes around and see are some of the highest ranked wealth per capita. you also talk about these top counties in zip codes and the high percentage that no one would vote republican, voted for hillary, , which is to allow people shocked because the conservative movement of the republican party is supposed be the rich man's party. >> guest: totally true. again, i'm not pretending to be a savant. it's all very obvious in retrospect it. i was fishing in western maine new the canadian border with a friend who is a really smart guy but not come high school education, and they said to him in the summer of 15 who are you going to? >> obviously he's a a gun guy souris conservative. he said i'm either going to support bernie sanders or donald trump. this is -- those were not categories i understood as real
categories but i but i know thy very well. very close friend of my concisely what is that? basically saying the same thing. the system is rigged and it shouldn't be in in the democray and the mad about it. what? bernie sanders? that's when i i began to realie this is not a conventional race. it was erased the reflected the actual sentiments of people. most people are the populist economics. know what i know is. they are all completely brainwashed by libertarian economics can the chamber of commerce and all the stuff which, how honest and you want to be? >> host: pretty honest. >> guest: i have four kids and so i have some sensible young people think i guess. >> host: c-span can't argue. >> guest: find you. >> guest: know, they can. look at these numbers. half of all young people prefer socialism to capitalism. if you're me on the cusp of 50, grew up during the cold war, that is repugnant. socialism, really? religious faith those as an economic system and ennis laid
capital world for my whole childhood? to me it's like we're for nazism. disgusting. if you are middle aged conservative like me, just terrible at brainwashing the kids, by the way is totally true. we put the dumbest people in charge of educating our kids cao doubt. and we spend the most money. it's not just that. let's be real. what's really going on, it's that the kids of living of it been told by their mediocre professors pickets that they regret and light weight, i'm from a middle-class family but i can't afford rent in new york city and can't afford to buy a car much less a house, much less get married. i am delaying marriage and childbirth until 35 because i have no choice. how is capitalism working for me? it's not. the rest of us are like shut up, you just understand. if we cared about preserving capitalism, and they do because i think it works, we would think deeply about how it's not working for young people. we are not.
once you understand that the new like of course bernie sanders is pipefitter. of course trump attack on hedge funds was popular. it makes sense because why would they think that? the system is not working for them. i don't know if your kids old enough but when her first child graduates from college, i'm sure the kids will set want to live in downtown d.c., live in your custody. i want to live in west side of l.a. i can't make rent. you were to vanderbilt. you would to catholic school for 12 years, this expense account and you can make enough as a well-connected person from upper-middle-class helmet you can't campaign have to pay rent? what? then you call your friends, are you supporting your daughter? every one of them is. why? because they can't support themselves because the economy won't support it. i'm not sure whose fault it is. i'm not sure to fix it. i'm positive that's a terrible problem that will wreck the country if we don't get a hold of it. if you don't feel like to have an opportunity, if they think there's no chance they will do as well as on parents, they will
become radical. >> host: and that's what's happening. this recent gallup poll said something like 57% of democrats are okay with you getting called socialist can work you way back to the '40s or '50s it would've in the teens. socialism was always relevant and our political dialogue but it was a pretty skinny french idea that i do except during era. this is a bit of everything. my concern is trump hasn't thought deeply about a lot of things he's saying and he doesn't have enough support in washington to get anything done. it's a separate conversation but this moment meters the progressive air almost precisely together branded technology, the steam engine and average of one from the farms to the city and its transformative but also terribly disruptive and a lot of social chaos. all of a sudden people find themselves at the mercy of the employee. they have no power. they start to become politically radical. i think sexy mom went record high levels of immigration, people from other countries to
staff actors. that's a hotbed of radicalism. yet the i.w.w., industrial workers of the world, basically communists and their getting traction. bombs going off, all this drama into the steps this guy from the ruling class teddy roosevelt whose like a sport capitalism. i'm deeply conservative. in order to preserve capitalism i will branded in which it does, and by creating all these new federal regulations around all the stuff, and by doing that he calms things down and allows capitalism to proceed apace for the next 100 years. the romanovs do not respond this way and there like hey, shut up, serfs. the next thing they know they can executed and thrown into mineshaft. you have 70 years of bolshevism that has displaced the whole system.
there's a huge cost. we never a dull sugar people might change. getting it at a pace that is unsustainable. then you have the economic changes noted that are disempowering the average person, the value of labor is plummeting. we have record levels of immigration. that's why trump gets elected. somebody needs to get some of these forces of technology under control or else you are going to have a revolution. i don't want a revolution. >> host: you write a lot about that. i would ask you one question before transition to that. while trump, is he a transitional political figure four is a transformational political figure? >> guest: i don't know how -- >> host: easy teddy roosevelt or is this an emergency brake which takes over 20 years and we're right back with some of the problems? >> guest: it's hard to know because we're right in the middle of it. it's hard to see the outlines clearly when the right there. >> host: it's not a fair question but if so asked.
>> guest: i just had lunch with a friend who is more than i am in which i met this exact same thing. my sense is one of the reasons trump can be frustrating to watch is because he's not a conventional politician and the policies. conventional politician is measured by the degree to which he cheats the things he promised on the campaign. trump's problem is nobody in this he agrees with him all including most of the people who work -- >> host: and they hate him or do they hate him. tremont including some people who work on an political jobs. >> guest: most of them. i don't know that they hate him but they're not pulled aboard at the undercutting and they don't agree with his ideas. trump comes washington promising to build a wall, for example, or get healthcare prices under control or doing the things, rain in the finance sector. let's get rid of these loopholes like carried interest.
no one is on board to help him and he does know a lot about the system and hasn't learned very much better. it's frustrating to watch. if you're judging trump by the normal metrics, this is a failure. maybe trump has another role. maybe his job comes unique contribution to our politics is to be the guy who identifies the problem. at that he is both a genius and is incredibly brave. trump does a thing we comes and says why i would not doing this why? asked the super simple questions that nobody can answer because the answer is either implicate himself completely they can't admit what they -- what i are e still in beta? native kept the soviets from invading europe but the soviets have existed. why we still in beta? and what it's like shut up, they scratched their heads, their basic questions you should have it to do and it makes the room be quite. >> guest: why don't we have a border? shut up, , what are you, racist?
shut up, are you in putin's pocket? whatever. don't really care actually what trump is like as a person. i want to do with the answer is that what is the answer, mr. genius guy? like tell me smartest man in world. why do are we still need a? it's almost like when your kid goes through that phase, why is this? there's a good reason. but why? mom is having a a glass of one, stop asking questions. >> host: i understand that exactly. >> guest: you are getting the spot of. >> host: . >> host: i've dealt with billionaires. people laugh at them at times. david thaler, great success. in block and the politics and you wanting a very basic answers to really fundamental questions. where at some of the ceos at these big influential highly
impressive companies approach these questions completely different. >> guest: because of their product of the bureaucracy and the hand in by the sensitivity to promote or h.r. or whatever we're calling it and a comment at every question with huge part of it cordon off like don't go there, don't say. shut up, be quiet. shut up and away. when a vehicle into the question knowing that you can't ask the most obvious question you'll never get to the right solution. i agree with you completely. i do think the missing piece in the point or if the goal is return us to a stable political system which has to be the goal, i don't want much more of this, the country will break -- >> host: you meet people turning violent. >> guest: just general nastiness. this can't go on forever. i conservative in the true sense, some change is necessary. a ton of change has a very high cost, when hundred%. from evolution biological standpoint we are not equipped for this much change.
the missing ingredient in this remedy is a guy who shows up and can actually answer those questions. that is not trump. i'm not attacking trump. we are good and different things -- >> host: but is not a government expert. >> guest: no. that this need to be followed by some who says i understand the question to racing are real questions. you are not racist for asking. here's what the answer is and here's what we're going to do. as soon as we get some like that, using trump's question, there will be in much better shape. my fear is that people in charge on both sides have been totally unwilling to engage like paul ryan who i stay put is the best person in the world. he's going to have, he the other
day said, he says about trump's plan to end birthright citizenship and the elite weighed in. he's obviously for mass immigration, whatever. he said obviously that can't work. i just thought just having spent 16 years in schools, whenever an authority figure profits since with obviously, what they're really saying is i'm not bothering to explain my thinking to you. what you mean obviously? why is it obvious? why don't you explain to me? i don't need to single out paul ryan but that is a mindset, obviously that won't work. how about this? i have the iq of 80? 80. speak slowly and trying for me. >> host: i come up from republican ranks. don't look at me like that's crazy. >> guest: no. >> host: the thing that it's frustrating about her party leaders is we do tend to preach first and listen second. that's why an issue of economic issues your racing for
immigration, they seem so shellshocked when they lost the entire country. they lost the center-right coalition. they lost the country some of their position. if we are in a democracy you have to sell the idea that you that's a good definition. >> host: you have a television show, you need viewers. >> guest: up course. it's even more central to the political realm because the legitimacy, the power derives directly from the consent of the government. when a monarchy, this is why the saudi monarch is pretty stable now despite all the drama because it is rooted in the elegy. why are you in charge? god put me in charge. most people as bizarre as it sounds to the western left caprylic most people get that. that put you in charge, okay, therefore you're in charge. democracy is nearly unstable. that's what we didn't have any democracies between the roman republic and hours, 2000 years,
but they are very tough and because the legitimacy questions are always up in the air because legitimacy only comes from the government. the second you are not representing the government where did you get the right not represent the government? what is that come from? the truth is it doesn't come from anywhere. it becomes tyranny. the second the population isn't on board, you'll really allegedly by the rules of your own system. you have to pay attention. >> host: as i said i think donald trump is an entrepreneur who brings the entrepreneurs in the politics. ronald reagan understood yet to go sell it. he had to go sell this policy, a teflon president because i said the negative stuff, people like him personally, he went out and sold the ideas trump is not like reagan as a person. he's a totally different kind of person but he does understand if you are not hooked up to the
people on these issues, you are wasting your time. >> guest: this is, that understanding is a prerequisite for leadership in a democracy. the mistake the current crop of leaders, the dumb people really still operating most of the power tools, i really need to approach this with pure content because that's what happened after 14 years of living among them. i really mean this. i'm not a populist. i am an elitist just leave in repressed elites but we don't have that. the mistake to make this up mistake a lot of parents and employers noted offices make which is force the people below you to obey. the truth is you can't. you can't do with your own children. you could make a kids do whatever you want. where a funny hat. i recommend you to wear at viking hat to school. but then they turn 18 and if you have rules through fear and force with your own kids, what happens? even at 18, they go crazy.
they hate you but you can't do it forever. what you are saying now all these questions have been raised. why are we doing this why? that's with the publish was asking with a elected donald trump. shut up. nobody believes, most americans, it has nothing to do with racism. that's just a cover. what they're really saying is shut up and do what you're told. my only point is not just that's annoying which it is, but it's not sustainable. you can't keep doing the forever be for people like, i don't get what you call me, i'm not going alone. >> host: by the way, to the people who really are hateful in the hearts, you are bringing a going together. >> guest: night at a certain point and i keep track of what people think of in the hearts? is that even knowable? what is this? that's kind of gods job actually get what i i can ask of you is certain behavior. i can tell you what is accessible and not acceptable to do that. what i can't do in a free society is forced to delete
something because your conscience is your own. i'm not in charge of your beliefs. i can't be. >> host: so let me ask you this. conservatism, being a conservative, would you call yourself a conservative? >> guest: yeah, i guess. i intensely dislike so many conservatives. >> host: i want to get into that. how would you define it, explain it? >> guest: i don't know. from my perspective my own beliefs are rooted in the life i live in the life i want my children to live. i begin with what i think is most important? my family is most important. way more important than my country or you anything abstraf my family, my wife and kids. i do care about my country and the care about a lot of things but i care about my family first. from my perspective, they could show worldview would start there. what are the policies that make most likely people conform happy stable families and exist as i've existed?
i felt really happy life. i want my children children ofe and their children, too. what are the policies i can support i can make that happen? conservatives have decided that market capitalism or whatever the case is pushing his religion. i happen to think market capitalism works. >> host: very practically effective. >> guest: and generate a huge amount of prosperity. it's not a religion. it's a means, a tool that were used to achieve certain goals. my goals are always bourgeois. bourgeois character. i don't seek to live in the plural marriage and south of france. i want to live my stupid serpent favorite in washington, d.c. and tried my kids to school. that's like honestly my hearts desire to i think a lot of people like me, probably the majority and the thought of one. >> host: what i hear in this answer is part of being a conservative is this idea that you thought of regular or doing extra ugly you could to charge
on course. you could figure who and what you want to be, the kind of ice went to live. >> guest: of course that's true, i agree with all that but in my reading is lebed deeper in that i believe there's a continuity of human civilization. select people live a certain way like monogamy. you spend a long time, you marry one person can you stay married. why are you doing that? audibly human institutions arise for no reason. not all of them are good by the way. we had slavery since being a time. it's totally wrong and i'm always against it. but there is a reason for everything. it's not brand. trump's election was not rained. even if they don't know what the reason is, it made sense to me in january 16, i thought his going to be elected. nothing to do with them, just the force. a conservative worldview would take account of what people want as expressed by what they do.
not by what they should want. i filling everything has gotten think tank world this abstract. i've worked in the think tank world and i been here for 34 years so i know the way the city works. i think people have debates like that's inconsistent with the tenets of capitalism. unlike, i don't worship capitalism. i worship god. literally i'm a christian. this is not a religion. it's a mechanical, you know what i mean? , people have better lives. >> guest: eggs has a right. but if your system is making it impossible for my children get married then i'm totally happy to set your system on fire and load up. what is the point, to serve the system? i'm serving my children. i'm very distrustful of abstraction, very especially as they get older. i don't like -- shut up.
trauma i i often say god didn't give me the highest iq but an iq high enough to understand if the make sense or not. that is uniquely american. we want to know if you're going to help people can solve the problem. if we kept talking with we might wasting a lot of time. >> guest: i told agree. and by the way, all decisions ought to be approached with baseline humility, which is a head with the knowledge ever present that with limited power and we can't see the consequences of what we're doing now. we think we can't get it could be back and we might be wrong but humility, hubris is an enemy of wise decision-making. i know we're going to do, the ruth goldberg machine. the marble drops which flips over, ghost in the water will have toast pops out of the toaster. you don't know what's going to happen. you don't really know. i get all these people may show saying i i know. really, what do we know? i don't know if i'm going to
wake up alive tomorrow morning to you don't know squat because your human being. you are not in control of life or death. i do think what are the reasons people are so emotionally invested in abortion, many people who are invested in motion and abortion would never have one by the way. they think it is discussing but they would lay down the live for you to have one. why? because it is the physical expression of their core belief that man is god, that we do have control over life and death. i think a person who doesn't believe that he gives with aniston the one thing were not in control of his death. you can extend your life. if you can't even extend homunculus then what are you in charge of? the answers nothing really. i can decide what i will have for lunch but beyond that, a lot of it is gone my power. if you keep that he might always you will never go too far wrong, i think. >> host: it is tantalizingly toggle whether or not you were conservative, you, you said i
don't know because the sony conservatives i don't like, you spent a little ink in your book on that. you are a fair-minded person, you're not looking to go after people but you are honest about this kind of big food fight that is happening among certain conservatives. >> guest: it is, and i just think that you should be honest about yourself. i really believe that. i'd make that kind of dumb decisions in my life. i've had tattoos removed. >> host: you want to say where it? >> guest: no. half kidding. but i used to drink too much. i supported the iraq war. i've been so be done things. i missed anything like i'm really smart and you're not. i don't feel that way. >> host: you idea guy. >> host: -- >> guest: i can't tonight. i held my kids most of us and to hold the kids to its instant. the question is not going to screw up. of course you are, a lot of the
question is do you admit it? would you like about it? do you learn something from it or do proceed as if it never happened? i think that's a fair stand which tool our policymakers. i know the people that come up with the life of that decision, some which i time, you mention max boot and bill kristol. >> guest: max boot is an idiot, okay? bill kristol is not an idiot. my former boss. , you describe as a mentor at .? >> guest: he wasn't a mentor and it was a close to him but i like him. he hired me. >> host: you respected him. >> guest: totally. clever and humane and a very good boss i will say that the bill kristol is a very good boss. mr. mccain by temperament. just let you do what you needed to do. i would set up get all these kids and he's like i can't pay you more but you can take a side job. always nice to me. he was fair to me. i think he's hardly a genius but he's not stupid.
yes high verbal aptitude and yet all these theories about the middle east, which sounded a tiny bit far-fetched to me but not insane. i thought he knows a lot more about that which he does. i'm not even holding him, i don't think that he should be sent to prison for any of that at all because i agree with some of it. what i am enraged by is the unwillingness of you and people like him to just acknowledge the obvious truth which is we were completely wrong and enter next rent a decision-making. >> host: -- >> host: wronged by the middle east and domestic politics. >> guest: completely. i do want to be self-righteous because i hate that in people. we all have the impulse to be added to want to be that person. i i've been wrong a lot but aftr the results are so obvious, their demonstrable, really no debate about this being a bad idea, why don't you try to figure what the less it might've been of that decision and apply them to the next decision and i
pretend it never happened so because you don't want to concede you are wrong. just be very precise about it, that's what enrages me. the fact that come it's not just bill kristol. he's the phone also at this point i don't want to make it worse for him. there's a lot of other people who still retain positions, john bolton would be one of them honestly why don't think have learned anything from their mistakes. why wouldn't i be mad about that? these are people with a lot of power whose son was the rest of us are paying and they have an obligation to do better. that's my opinion. he should just admit i support all these things that turned out to be disasters and i'm sorry, and here's what i've learned. he never has. >> host: that would be a fascinating interview. >> guest: he said i guess you're the foreign policy expert now. i'm like no, i am not the foreign policy expert, you are so maybe you should acknowledge your decision been very unwise and tell you what you learned. >> host: one of the big changes with this administration
seems to be a recalibration of what it means to a strong nutri force. you go anywhere and do everything, or do a press pause as often as he can? one interesting things in the book is jimmy carter, the one thing he might've done right is in a consul use the military all over the globe. the rescue mission, and we should become better but it was a little more careful when you came the military. "the republican reversal" the only president i think in the 20th century to not wage war during his four years in office. by the way, the public hated him. >> host: but for a lot of of the reasons that were well-deserved. >> guest: i think one of the reasons we have, you get a lot out of it in the short term. if you're daytrader think about how to spyker popularity to the next election, it works. i'm not an isolationist. the typical dumpers in response to this critique is argued isolationist like charles
lindbergh? no. >> host: i worked with president bush. all of those who worked in president bush, we're not making cuticle decisions on war and peace which is good, but by the same token we all have to understand history is a tough judge and was have those decisions will be seen in the scope of time. it's sobering for folks. i things when the resort president bush left the stage. some pretty big decision been a lot of criticism decisions he made and he walked away. i think there's a bit of grace to that. you present, he made the tough calls and walked away. why can't democrat presidents ever lead us? it's like they're doing oprah, still giving speeches that are televised and it's like my gosh, that's no -- i had my chance, i had my time in the spotlight and now it's time to just go be an american. >> guest: let me say one thing about george w. bush who i criticized a lot on the basis of
policy. i see him occasionally once a a year or something, and living in america, and i'm not intimate at all but my strong sense is he is very burdened of the consequences of decisions he made. i don't know what his beliefs are now but i think he feels the weight of those consequences. he has spent, i think it's primary hobby now is painting pictures of wounded warriors and sending them to get what does that tell you? it tells you this is a guy who is ruminating on his decision. i think that's what responsible people do actually. it's what decent people do. i don't agree with a lot of things he did but i think that speaks well of his character. and also like you can guess we thinks about a lot of things or maybe not. he's not election the rest of us because he served two terms and up it's over. democrats put politics different from republicans in general. it's the religion. it's everything. >> host: it's the heartbeat. where is mostly focused when you
get that statue of liberty on your check, this is temporary. i get back into the private economy. >> guest: the goal of your life is raising a family or doing well at work or serve the god you believe it or whatever. politics is a thing to do to make space for those things. not for all democrats of course but for the activist base of the democratic party, politics is the point. wielding power is the point at a think that points out the basic temperamental difference between the left and and what else is left feels powerless without political power. it's one of the reasons trump has made himself -- it's not that he's right wing. he's the most liberal republican ever elected by far on everything. it's not a left-right thing. it's a he took power away from the left. they cannot control it. no one can control truck. his own staff cannot control them. they feel deeply threatened by that because if you disembark.
they don't have political power, they lay beneath our. >> host: and they've been able to get to other republicans. >> guest: they could shame them. >> host: i don't know how much robbery can get for present from before he can say. [laughing] maybe need to change that. trekkie totally true. this is like to fall people but your strength is your weakness and vice versa. his weakness is that is often come as a list of the people doesn't get what you think and he will just say these things and the what can control them. hurts his numbers can hurt the republican party. it's also a strength because somebody else would have the way of us to say obviously true things like why do we have orders or like these people are not -- why the coming in? you're not allowed to say that. >> host: totally true. try to shut up, racist. >> host: let me transition to another think we touched on,
which is the modern american ceo who seems to be more involved in doing their hair and the jacket they were for the big announcement and the great press they're getting about how socially progressive they are and what a great work environment that in the company. is the company going to be around next week? not so much. what is going on? >> guest: why are they taking the salaries when the companies are taking? the feng shui is out of whack. i got right into in the book, hundreds of millions for wrecking the company and a true there's lots of factors that destroyed yahoo!, wasn't just her but she was ahead of it. >> host: when your company isn't profitable, what you make anything as ceo? >> guest: the differential between the highest and lowest
paid employee in the company, liberals always used to talk about that and conservatives were like shut up, stop with your fairness which i used to say that. now that liberals and institutional conservatives are united in adapting the agenda of the chamber of commerce on immigration and wages, nobody is saying that. there is no pushback. the system is out of balance. so we need to wait a second, explain to me why you deserve all this money. what are you, socialist? no, i'm a capitalist pig you are discrediting capitalism by your greed. i don't work for anybody. what you're doing is greedy. you do not create value. your duty to cover anyone else like you are a pioneer because he to the race or gender or soe relevant criteria. you are a bad student of the company and your shafting and doing below you including shareholders. why are we for this? you could come into company
where people have worked for generations at the maximus profits for a short-term to the benefit of a tiny group of private equity investors, you close the company down but i would add a work that were not allowed to say anything because that's capitalism. be quiet, you don't understand markets. okay, you are evil, be quiet. these peoples lives better. i'm not saying you employ people have lost forever. what i am saying is there lights are not irrelevant. that's got to be one of the factors. >> host: some of these high-tech companies get ceos, the profits are, audibly profits? you're making outrageous amounts of money. they are called innovators which allow them to cover all the -- a filing to making huge impact on our society that we don't fully understand. are you someone who looks at this and says maybe needs to scrutinize this? >> guest: i would say scrutinize. i would say break of the companies immediately.
i feel that way and i guess -- >> host: they are essentially monopolies. >> guest: they all have carveouts from the congress that allowed them to pretend -- >> host: and taking all our personal information and using it tragic and not even american companies. these are multinational corps owned, a lot of old are sovereign wealth funds, nations that a district of get foreign entities and a miss. they are not american in any recognizable since the event almost total control over all human information. what a been a threat to to democracy? they are. >> host: definitely a a political point of view. trenches where are the conservatives you're supposed to be protecting like normal people? it's the market or the junior senator from utah who was the chairman, i think, of the senate anti-trust subcommittee. i asked him, a smart guy, nice
guy, it was like if google is a monopoly to make we should read redefine the true. no, it's a free market. if you just say the term free market, it's like kryptonite. i'm melting, free market, stop it. if this is a free market, google is a free market? no, it's not. it's a totally creepy monopoly. >> host: there's more to come. i need another hour with you. >> guest: i'll be out of time? >> host: getting close. talk about the free market in fact, you don't believe in the market would did so you're an elitist. i had this question about your family. four kids, really all out of the house. you can be, you had some pretty tough rules which a family. i hear you don't like wheels on suitcases. is this true? >> guest: who told you? >> host: unlike lynch to tell you. in situ? >> guest: you take the bag and you will be short and get plane. that is true. i do have a ton of rules.
actually a very blasé. those my life in the way we raise our kids. >> host: caring your back is not lazy. trenches i have three daughters and i just love that. i talked to him on every and the wonderful. but my girls plus my wife is four tend overpack booby-trapped. my will is always been, you can bring anything you can't run with through dfw. no wheels. they were like, that's crazy. but they abide a pipe because the don't ask them to do a lot. on the like you have to believe what i believe politically. you can order anything you want off the menu. no wheels. we have dignity, something called human dignity. i'm not going to drag my back like an animal. i'm going to carry it like a human being. it all worked into my oldest child was 18 and she went to london for the summer to work and we met her on the french side. she came through the chunnel.
she's pulling a wheeled suitcase. i said where did you get that quick she said my best friend, her godfather i'm not going to take what his real name is. anyway, he told undercut my authority as a patriarch and given her this rolling suitcase. that was the beginning of the internet was went to dam starts to collapse in the next time i met up with my kids can i have my son his dutifully carrying his duffel bag and then i four girls with hot pink role of back stick you know what? -- >> host: we do need another hour. this winfast. >> guest: part of the patriarchy over the rolling back, that's the beginning. it's going to get worse. thanks for being with us tragic thanks for doing it. i appreciate it. thank you.
>> if you'd like to view other "after words" programs online simba go to our website @booktv.org. type "after words" into the search for search bar and all previous "after words" episodes will be available. >> this year booktv marks our 20th year of bringing you the countries top nonfiction authors and the latest books. find us every weekend on c-span2 or online at booktv.org. >> the national press club holds an annual book fair in this year booktv attended and spoke with several nonfiction authors. rosemary gibson discussed china's growing influence on the prescription drug industry. >> host: rosemary gibson, the subtitle of your book "china rx" is exposing the risks of america's dependenc o