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tv   Suketu Mehta This Land Is Our Land  CSPAN  August 24, 2019 4:15pm-5:21pm EDT

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one bomber now can do as much damage with its payload as all of those bombers during the entire war. so that's a sight -- a sight to behold and a sight that i'll never see again but just brings back some viv individual enemy -- vivid memories. >> to learn now bit his book visit our web site, and search for his name her to title of the book using the search becomes at the top of the page. >> hi there. welcome to thank you for. topping continue we're sited to hour our gase. quicklyhouse keeping before we get started, the train will be roaring by through so we ask that everybody to silence their veil phones so there's only one
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incredibly intrusive noise interfere and if you would like to hear more about event signed up for the newsletter with the cash register. 15% of all of our sale today will be do it donated to immigrant families together. yesterday was their one issue year anniversary which is very exciting. congratulations. [applause] >> and later in the q & a portion speak into the mic so people can hear you. so, our guest this evening, suketu m mehta. his work has pend a knicker, "new york times" magazine, national agree jack, harper are time and gw, won a guggenheim fellow and inand born in cal date and lives in new york city
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where the is a zornes of professor of journallively am new york ski. julie asia former bilingual social worker and a who is work appeared in a number of print and online magazines including national geographic traveler, outside, scientific american, discover, latina, the guardian, and time. the founders immigrant family together, works with attorneys ands a vote cass groups to identity women eligible to be lead and post band. please join me in welcoming our speakers. thank you. >> we actually have something necessary commonality beside being writer. you and i i believe are the only two people from the united states who have read our books in have havana cuba in the only
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english book store in cuba. run by my friend. >> a fantastic book store. >> itself is, highly recommend if. it has hammocks and coffee and revolutionary and interesting stories. first i want to say, when i read your book i could not put down the book or the pen i held in my hand the entire time i was reading and hat nod unlined so much of a book since i read the burt of life so i wanted to give this to you as a gift and i think while many ofes essays were written in the 60s or 70s, these are themes that are still very relevant and important today. so -- >> wow. >> you in good company. >> absolutely. >> there's so much to talk about, and i think this book is extremely powerful and so what i wanted to suggest is i have a lot of questions i think will resonate with all of us who are here and interested in this topic. will make sense to you whether
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you read the back or not yet and certainly you wanted to read a couple of sections as well, something about the meatball wars and we want to have a conversation with all of you. this is not my stage soley simple want to make sure we have time to talk with everything. there's so much going on that to be in conversation is very special and important right now. so, without further adieu. one of the themes in your book for me is about how much of our language around immigration is for lack of a bert work completely fucked up. and -- sorry, my nine-year-old is in the back. but i think i would love if we could use that as a point of departure for our conversation because i feel like it really quite it literally frames everything historically and also that's happening rackets now the terms of how we think about
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immigration regardless of political views. >> absolutely. that's a great question and thank you. i'm honored to be sharing the stage or chair with you. it's all right of the conversation around immigration -- language marys. we're both writers, story-tellers. i began writing fiction, and then went into journalism, i've written books about -- been righting a book but new york city for ten years. but i felt i had to put that aside for a while in response to the presence emergency. i'm an immigrant. many of you in the room or immigrants. in the united states today the most powerful person in the country thinks of as less than humidity he's compared immigrants to vomit, called the
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countries that many of us come from shithole countries. called is robbers and rapists, and it's knotts just in the united states. around the world, there's a group of populists or strong men, like hungary, brazil, due tart philippines, turkey, who have come to power by demonize the other, by referring to migrants as invade years, dish invaders who come to these countries to take. a populist is nothing but a gifted story-teller. you have to hand it to these guys they tell false stories well and the only way to fight them is to tell the true story better and the true story is kind of indisputable, people move across the world and make the countries they go to better.
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immigrants have crime lates than the native born, they work harder and longer, and the countries they move to would be crude if immigrants weren't do toe come. so that basically what i -- that's the message i want to convey in this book about an -- and it's very much tied to language. for most migrants, etymology is destiny. at the border when asked what are you? the difference between refugee or migrant or economic migrant, can mean literally the difference between life and death. and it's really very recently that human beings have had to classify themselves, for most of human history we moved across the planet, there haven't been
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any borders the whole convoluted superstructure of passports pasd series visas if othe earliest 20th century. a blip in human history. we have get to fight the bad language with the good language, the true language. >> when we think but language related to immigrant, picker at the border land over u.s. and mexico, how do we make words that are sort of not maybe accessible to somebody who is not up to their eyeballs in the subject every day more access nibble there are certain recuring words that people hear but there are words that are devoid of meaning. so, some of these words i think among those of us here have come to take on a particular charge, like the ice box, the dog pounds. how do we sort of reclaim some words and either make them
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meaningful for people who may not have access to their meaning or shake us out of this numbness maybe that we have come to hear certain words again and again and sort of been rendered meaningless as a result. >> the biggest word of all, illegal. how can a human being be illegal? but this is what 12 million people living in this country have been classifieds. have been grandded. it's a kind of branding. the idea that human being is outside the law. that he is less than legal. i call migrants in my book by another word or phrase, i call them ordinary heroes because my book hawse all these stovers people wooferring migrants move to the united states or african migrants trying to get into
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europe, i've been among them and spoken to them and got to know them and they're nothing less than ordinary heroes because they are willing to do anything, make any sacrifice, to ensure a better life for their children and it's breathtakingly moving. i tell you one story. i met 23-year-old honduran mother in a woman's shelter in tijuana, and tijuana is just below san diego, and she made made the incredibly areous to the united states the lords honduras but one day her husband happened to see a gang murder, buy stades end and he had to flee for his life and then gangs came to her home and said basically they would take her little boy in payment for her
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husband's fleeing. come for him now or later when he is grown up. so he took the next bus north and she was going to claim asylum which by intercover anyones the united states assigned she has founded to because she had a well-founds fear of persecution at thing high of the family separation crisis last year where we shamed ourselves as a nation by snatching crying babies from the arms of their mothers. and i said, you're going to claim asylum which you have a right to do about you he know they might take your baby and had this angelic 18-month-old baby on her lap and beautiful child, and she start crying and she said, yes issue know, but this is what mother's love is. i would rather never see this boy again that it love so much
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more than the own life and rather never see him again and know that he is safe somewhere than have to put him six feet below the ground in a box back where i come from. she is an ordinary hero. willing to do anything to ensure safety for her child. it's about language. >> there's another word that we hear a lot which is about undocumented people, right? hi and was reading a beautiful poem in which the poet said how can we possibly be up documented. we have more documents than anybody and it's true. all of the people i accompany to i.c.e. lad to go to la guardia and the families nor detained come out of detention and someone powes bond for them is i.c.e. retains their passport or national i.d. or whatever identify paperwork they brought with them from their home country, and that restrictions your movement. so then you have this whole
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stack of paperwork from i.c.e. that puts you on another piece of paper called the secure flight list, and it's true. you walk around with all -- so a lot of of the language around immigration is very imprecise. so i'm very interested in -- we talked earlier about how we reclaim words, how we reclaim narratives and also who gets to tell narratives and i wonder if we can talk more but some of the ordinary heroes you met and how they share their stories in what kinds of spaces they share their stories and what we were talking about, which is the agency. who has the right to tell a story and where do they tell it? >> absolutely. i'm an immigrant myself. i came from bombay to jackson heights when is was 14. so, i can speak to the immigrant
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experience but i didn't come a political refugee. or a here rick journey that women particularly have to endure across africa or latin america. but i am a trained story-teller and a story-listener. doing this for a long time and i know how to go to people and to listen with empathy. so, one of the story is have in my book is of a little family from the country of in africa and i made them in tangier and you can see spain just across the mediterranean and they were going to they can their little baby and try to cross the mediterranean and they showed me the boat they were going to do this on and it was a little -- not even a lifeboat, like a
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little plastic dingy that ching used to play on the beach and i feared for their life and i feared their the baby glaus was -- they had to drug a new born to keep him quiet. and i told them, highly dangerous thing to do and then i go to the know their story. they haded in their country because there was no life possible there. then i did -- i spoke to them for days i hung out with enemy their little room that they lived in. walked around the city with them. and i listened. and then i went into the history of guinea. that's very important because they have the story and it's important to put the story in context of why are the leaving
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guinea. i came across these statistics both guinea. guinea is not a poor country. up to half the world's boxite is located in guinea. it's rich in mineral resources. but there's an american hedge fund which controls most of the boxite in guinea. the company was sues by the sec and the justice department and had to pay tens of millions of dollars in fines for practices in africa, not to he guineaans but the justice department help head of the company, recently bought an apartment at 220 central park south where the guardian ad litem for a quarter of a billion dollars. >> that was billion, right. >> billion. but being the head of a hedge fund he didn't necessarily have to move out of his previous
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residence which only cost a mere $100 million, which is just down the road at 15 central park west, and another of official of the hedge fund, michael cohen, he brought a 900 ache at the english estate in the countryside. so what i can connect these to stories, this family told me they were both educated, willing to work, they were going to work at any odd job they could in europe, and they did it because not only did they not have a future in guinea but that the child had no possible future guinea0. who stole their future? the hedge fund the further i connect it to -- because i'm other journalist, to the larger -- beyond just guinea. 40% of the multinational profit in the world are immediately
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moved to tax havens. so most of the money comes out of africa is not taxed in africa. it's shifts through financial shenanigans to places like the cayman islands or the city of london where the multiflames say this great for the country, we provide jobs, we pay taxes. most of the tax money is moved out and most of the benefits of this kind of corporates colonialism, which i call it, go to a small group of the local elites. so, in story-telling it's important to have both the anecdote, the story of the little family, and the political and historical process that shaped their story. so the larger context. >> i think that's a really nice segway to the opening part of your book in which your grandfather is in london, and a white londoner says to him, what
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are you doing sneer and you're grandfather very smartly says, we're here because you were there. and -- i just want to pass that along to everybody. let that become their new motto. but i think guinea is just one of hundreds of examples around the world. we -- you also talk about the world is not a pie. there's not some sort of finiteness to what we have available to us. it's about how it gets distributed. and so you talk so much in the book about all many -- so many different kinds of folks and cultures who are moving across the planet because they were there, because somebody else was there taking from them what was theirs. what other -- besides that characteristic of corporate colonialism, what other trends you see that fierce the folks have med. ordinary heros to flee or seek a life jew else.
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>> there's four -- live somewhere else. >> there are four i identify. the first it colonialism. as my grandfather said to the when who said why are you here, he said you came to the company and took my gold and diamonds and we're the collectors. so thing figures both colonialism are staggering, during the colonial period europesshire of order's depend increased from 20% to 60% when i wander around europe and i see beautiful cathedrals and opera houses and palaces, that's actually my house. i could have a room in there. the second is when the colonialist left, imperial crown might have moved on but left their corporations behind to continue raiding and looting. and that is what i describe in the corporates colonialism
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section. if you go do any small african country and you see -- good to local hylton or sher sheraton there will be a group of local elitees, president for life, huddling with two or three white guys in suit plotting how to divvy up at the country's spoils. the third is war. we the neutz launched an illegal and unnecessary war in iraq, under false pretenses. 600,000 iraqis lost their lives as a result anded and off the conflagration which bottom line entire middle east. if there was any justice, the 900-acre bash ranches in texas should be full of tents housing iraqi and syrian refugees we cause people to move because of the wars we engage in and also
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when the colonial powers left, they divided up the former colonies entirely in maps that ensured permanent conflict between these people. so when britain left india, 200 years of ruling and exploiting it pits muslims and hindus against each. other divide and rule is an official policy. when they left they brought in an english barrister who had never been to india and give limp six weeks to draw two lines down a map where around 2 billion people now live and have to bear the consequences of the two lines which now divide india, pakistan and bangladesh and i've been to those borders. there were beam in pakistan and indiana who didn't know which side of the lines they would be until days after independence. so they fed on each other.
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most massive ethnic cleansing made by bad mapmaking. you look at map of africa it abounds in straight lines. the french and british went in there and together made 40% of all the borders in the world and they put these lines directly through tribal territory, so all these small scale conflicts you larry about in africa, they about tribes trying to regather themselves over the colony colonial made maps. guns, another massive way in which we cause people migrant migrate. during the nicaraguan conflict the united states nut 1.8 million guns in honduras to harm the contras. 75% of the guns in mexico come from the united states. 98% of the gun bam mas --
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bahamas come from the united states with arm these countries, basically a civil war happening. hire than in the middle east. we arm their militias and we export our militia. look at the gangs, the terror gangs that was trump and stephen miller so fond of, declaring they're a threat to us, they came from the prisons of los angeles, of california, when we impede our present and sent the most hardened criminals we deports emt them to countries who had no capacity to take them. people who had been come here as children, and didn't know how to make a living in the northern triangle countries so formed these militias then were armed by our guns and then resold the product they had to -- we bought the product that they had to offer, the only product left, which was drugs. that's the third this guns. and the fourth and potentially
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the biggest driver of migration is climb change. you think 4 million syrians are seeking refuge in germany are problem now what happens when bangladesh and 4 billion bungler la derbies have to find dry plant. and again the statistics on climate change are just incredible. by 2050, anywhere from 200 million to 1 billion people are going to be displace bid climate change. land that is them to 650 million people now is going to be underwater by the middle of the century and one third of earth will be home to one and a half billion people is going to be desert. let's look at the chain of responsibility. who made this happen? we americans are 4% of the population but we put a third of the excess cash bob in the atmosphere. the eu another quarter. we're responsible for it and these people moved, they're
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moving not because they hate their homes or their families wanted to just leave home for the hell of it for the lights of broadway or to see the eiffel tower. they moving because colonialism, war, inequality and climb change have rendered their home land uninhabitable. >> i think about this a lot. i feel like these histories of colonialism, the histories of we -- westerners being there, still is not sort of for a general public being restored to curricular narratives. have a nine year, five-year-old and a four-year-old, who go to a public school i a few blocks from here. grew up in south carolina. and i am now 41 and i am astonished by how similar the lessons they learn -- and i'm not talking about math -- still are. so go toy one of children's classes and they're singing, you're a grand old flag, you're a high- -- i'm like, really, still singing these songs, still
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learning about columbus, framed as a hero, that actually happened this year. and so i think one of the things that people often ask me when i speak on panels or at eventes, what ick do to help you? and i'm lying, intervene with curriculum, help educate people but these historical context but that's in the next level. one thing i thick you do so bully in your book in termites couching these ordinary moyers, individual stories, within a larger con section of statistics and fact -- context of statistics and facts which are readily available to any of us with google. and i feel like that may be is also still very difficult but maybe even the first order, before we get to sort of rewriting history the way it should be written for everybody. how -- why is its so hard for -- pick your villain -- trump,
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stephen miller, to accept the kinds of facts you have includes in this book statistically factually all the quantitive evidence we have suggesting immigration is not a threat to us on any level, economically in any way. so why is so hard to help people -- why is so it hard for them to understand facts? you realize i'm trying to have therapy here. >> the numbers speak for themselves. immigration is an absolute economic boom for the country. if it hadn't been for immigration, the growing rate of the united states would be 15% lower than it has been in recent years. britain would be 20% lower. southern europe, 30%. it's just -- every serious economickist agrees that immigration is a boon to the country. but it's not about numbers when its comes to trump and miller.
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it is about fear. it's about race fear. and i know this well because i grew up in queens and so did trump. it's a queens struggle. the most diverse neighborhood in the united states, and the least diverse person in the united states. it's -- he grew up in place called jamaica estates which almost an entirely white enclave and now it's filed with ail all kinds of people from all over who have the money to live nat enclave. the same thing in the racist catholic school went to in queens which i talk about in my book. when i came there i was one over the first my nye norths and they called me names names and the se catholic stool now is filled with immigrants so we overwhelmed them by force of
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sheer numbers. so what trump's base fears is being replaced. all these anymore charlottesville were carrying banners saying "we will not be replaced. "this race fear that people with my skin color or other skin colors will somehow -- this country will become nonwhite and the great fear they have is the year 2044, by which time the united states is slated to back majority minority country. >> we'll all be dead because of climate change anyway. >> but the whole concept of race and whiteness is being challenged daily. its obama half white or half black? one out of four americans now will marry someone not of their own race. many hispanics who as white as
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you or many of -- anyone who considers themselves white, they have to take the hispanic or latino box in various foreigns, including the census. the whole sent of race around the world is being challenged but it's a very important vehicle to rally an electoral base. so much is about politics and this where is -- what hand ha called fear lines between the mob and capital. steve bannon once said the origin of the current populist way, the antimigrant way around the world actually originate, the current wave in the 2008 financial crisis with don't agree on much but this is one point where i think he has it right. during the 2008 crisis, order
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people who budget homes with money that the banks offered to them, homes they could never afford but a the banks lied to them and stole them these homes, they found their life savings wind out. they found they had to walkway from homes and the bank that causes the whole financial crisis not only walked with scot-free, about no banker were jailed but became richer than ever. a giant upward shift of wealth. the eight richet people on the planet, all men no surprise -- own more than half the planet of 3.35 billion beam combined. so as ordinary people see this inequality rising across the world, the white working class in pennsylvania, in ohio, and i've spent a lot of time with them, talking to them why it is they're so angry? because they're future, too, was
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stolen. their future was stolen by the elites in these countries who richer than ever. but the elites being no fools knew that this outrage could be a serious threat to them and their big houses in new york, for the outrage had to be directs on to someone else and who better than the weakest and the poorest, the immigrants. so you see country after country -- trump rose to power on the wave of, i'm not -- wall street elite, i'm a self-made businessman, even though i think -- has his foot in his mouth but he managed to hood wink these people with this false narrative, that he was going look out their interests. he comes into power and then the never, trumpers got around to supporting him and he game the the biggest christmas gift in history, the tax cut, which is again going to make sure that even more money goes to the top,
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and these people worked foam they, the health care is being devastatessed, their jobs are being lost not to china but to auto make. but take them some -- out automation but the power over the narrative in eve country are scapegoats, and for that -- again what i am trying to do with my book, to make these connections and hope tom people in pennsylvania and wisconsin will read it. >> before we turn over to. >> would love for you to read the meatball wars which was something i was proud i knew a lot of the historical context but never heard of this. and i find it so compelling. >> so my book is a book about global migration, not just american migration. if hungry said the am more
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tightation to refugees to a new level, denmark has gone a step further, rein --ing its on legal residence per rye ya in 2018 they approached an initiative called one denmark without society no ghettos in to 2030 one of the three trite year na for designationing an area ghetto is ill have or more of the inhabitants are from nonwestern countries. the government classifieds 30 largely muslim north carolinas containing 60,000 boom, quote, getows in which parents have to abides by an entire live defendant set of laws from the rest over the country. the initiative includes 22 separate measures. start at the age of one getow children will be separated from the ghetto parents for a mandatory 25 hour of instruction a week. not including nap time. in danish volume chew include celebration of christmas and easter even if the children are
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muslim. if they don't obey the welfare payments stop. nongetow children can stay home until their six. if getow parents compel their parents to mange extend trips to them toland which the government has diamond reeducation trips the government want to the jail them for two to four years bus their quote schooling language and will being of the children would be harmed. the will also lose the residency rights but if white danish parents send the kids to say america or britain forboding school no worries. there's a war going on in denmark. for the danes call meatball wore. the blood is big blood. denmark has 5 million people and 13 million pigs and polling particularses want to redress the imbalance. in 2013 the prime minister railed against danish child cair centers dropping pork from their menus because they felt it might
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offend muslims a survey by a newspaper found that half the country's 1,719 child care centers, exactly 30 stopped serving pork or switched to halal feuds but the meatball war began. the danish people's party, part of the ruling coalition, aannounce its i would drown out of mayoral campaign if the incumbent promises to serve more pork in meatballs. they clear days -- fantastic during ramadan stay home to avoid negative consequences for the rest of danish society. she pointed to bus drivers and people working in hospitals, a fasting bus driver might become faint, headed and crash his bus. a spokeswoman for done of to the one tri's main bus operatessors said never had an accident with a driver who was fasting.
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if the minister's dark fears were true the entire muslim world would be awash in traffic accidents and medical malpractice during ramadan. in 2016 the pro meatball side won a what central danish city. it decreed at that time all public building must sell pork. we will ensure that danish children anding you can have pork in the future. a countryman stated. another counselingman said the idea of declining a, quote, danish food culture is absurd. this a brock -- we don't have mission they can eat a hot dog if you want. so there's many such stories and just gets absurd, but the on suddenty is now real. we are living in this farce. where all these governments and political parties try to outdo each other in the initiative.
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>> living in global onion story. so, let's take your questions for suketu. >> par my english. i wanted to ask you i come from italy. we have he -- which is your trump, and my question is, maybe a hint, how do we, normal people, get people who don't want to listen to listen to the truth? the problem as said, it's that the truth is clear, the facts are there, are accessible, but it's easier to listen to a
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tweeter can't where hatreds is shared every day rather hand to read the truth, and it's a beautiful that we are all here today but i think that if we are here, it's because we empathize with this thing of immigration and all the things we are talking about, and -- but i think that no one here will vet for trump or -- how do we share this feeling and this empathy with people who don't listen and don't want to listen? >> i was just in italy, and in milan. >> i come from milan. >> a wonderful city. full of immigrants and they make the done to -- the city really vibrant. i was told by a friend in milan it's great the immigrants here because i'm sick of eating italian food every day. like the ethopian food and
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indian food and these people make its possible. you're right there are some people for whom my book is certainly not -- i've been getting death threats from white supremacies after an op-ed i wrote call fog immigration as reparation and people are going hate my message and me passionately. there will always be people who will be so brain washed that nothing i say or nothing that people can say will reach them. but you know what? my book is an angry book but a happy ending and a quarter happy ending is that when immigrants move to this country, everyone benefit us. the countriesed themselves because the reich condition countries aren't making enough babies and immigrants are needed most of all to pay into the pension systems for the old in these countries.
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second immigrants benefit in men cases literally -- a question of life or death for them and the third, the countries they move from benefit because remittances or the best and most targeted way of helping the global poor. the money that immigrant send back, $100 and $200 incremes to poor nest he world, four times more than all of the foreign aid in the world combined. 100 times more than all the debt relief. so, the end of my book is the to answer your question what do we do about people that might not be so amenable, and i have a story about my brother-in-law, who grew up in north carolina but is indian-american bengally, and in that hosch year, 2016, he called me up and he said, i want to run for state senate. i said in north carolina?
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how are you going to support my sister i, i asked in no issue really think i -- since his family i went down and campaigned for him, my two friend went down and campaigned for him. and he was running in a district that is 70% white. and his opponent was a southern gent with a fine distinguished name of -- hinkins and my braun's name -- most of is constituents constant pronounce his name or people he is reaching out. to had to train his campaign staff how to say his name. well, -- jay went out and knocked on doors. his campaign knocked on $14,000. i went down there and it wasn't always ease blimp son had a gun pulled only him. i had a dog set on me.
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it was small doing am poodle named chewy, get back here but the knock on doors and spoke to people about what is important to then, which is schools, republicans decimated possible schooling until recalling raleigh and was going do make sure that teachers were made a decent wage and they saw this brown man was coming to their doors and addressing their concerns, and he won in a landslide and now in the north carolina state senate and the democratic whip in the senate. it is still possible is in country and it's through political power. some people who will listen to our message and poo people -- people who wont about what mate ises irpolitics women have g democracy and we have been given the option to run for public office. so we need enough of us to go out there and participates in
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the public sphere. >> i would like to engage with that, too i'm curious see what you think. i feel like false stories move faster than true ones, right? or the kinds of stories we would like to spread. ... >> it was regarding political parties and it was so shockingly wrong they could get behind resisting that. so one of the things that i saw with immigrant families together, how many people including my father who is a lifelong republican and former member of the nra really reach out with a hunger to know and
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connect and to hear stories of people who are not like them. i am married to a black cuban man and i'm from south carolina and my mother still lives there, we prickly find ourselves find,t are we mixed with, and i say sugar and spice and everything nice. as a constant shutting down, particularly for those of us who are white and privileged there is a certain responsible data engage up and i hate that that is true, i feel like it's a burden and it's important for me too answer people's questions and not shut down. when people have questions that i think are dumb, why do people come here, i think it's about trying not to judge and being
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patient with the questions and trying to make more of the true story stick and make them feel real and relevant to people for whom it's so far beyond their frame of reference and experience. >> i have spent a lot of time and done a lot of research gathering the studies and arguments. often people home for think thanksgiving, and have a drunk uncle, these people should not be here are they coming back. give uncle a copy of my book, you know why they're coming. and have a fact check to go with every single statistic in my book. it's a thing that you need for these thanksgiving arguments.
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>> i was very active in the fight against vietnam war and there's not nothing quick about the need for movement really. and i remember the demonstration that we had an opposition to the war, there was basically the mentality in this country of right or wrong in the early part of the war but we demonstrated you may have small demonstrations, we won over hearts and minds and that is not only because of our opposition with the struggle as bateman people in the opposition of the american gis eventually. it took a lot of getting into the streets, telling the truth
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and not what we need to do now. there is no easy answer but it has been done before, we should have the confidence that we could do it again. >> absolutely. it is movement building, and never forget there is more bus than there are of them, 2 million more people voted for hillary than they did for trump. because the system is raked, the electoral system is rigged, if i tell young people, move to a red state in your vote will make a difference. but i believe in this country trajectory in the long run is about being here for 40 years and the great thing about this country, is made up of a whole bunch of different countries. and we are living through dark times, i did not think that we would see him initiation so
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rapid and hateful in this country. and somehow they will not always be empower in the way we do it, what you are doing and what you are doing, and making coalitions together. we can make coalitions with talks. there's instructions on the small town of pennsylvania which i spent some time in 20 of 16, a town that has been devastated by industrial hydration. in the only industry left in the town which is mostly writers, for the war or the drug trade. young white men and women wandering through the streets of town and midday even like
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zombies because her hooked on opioids. it's a genuine thing there. the cause of their pain if the honduran mother turned to make a better life for her child. it is absolutely false. the cause of the pain has more to do with the people living in this town and suburbs and wall street eventually. the people who made out like bandits because of the pain of this town. we can form this with these people living in pennsylvania. we have to get the message out there. >> anybody else? >> speaking of politics, you have one hour to vote for the election. you have to say if you want to
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know who to vote for talk to me later. [laughter] anyway my question is is it time for colonial recreation, if they do not want us i may just give the money back. [laughter] >> it be a huge hell of a lot of money to get back. when the british arrived in india in the beginning of the 18th century, the gdp was 23% and by 1947 when they left it was under 4%. that started with china. a lot of people were very upset, and that was so long ago. if you look at the rest of the world, they got by looting and the free-trade 12 million was
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transported across healing take during the slave trade. let's give plumley to the africans to live a better life. in the country enriched by labor. but this time for a fair rate. the africans get to come here, and some of these countries that are still exploding from colonialism. in the countries that i moved to because africans will come here to work to loot and exploit. so the idea of preparation is one question if it's feasible right now but a mormon argument must be made in the whole debate around immigration even liberal democrats they took about what's in it for us. , we should have more skilled labor and we should have for indian and chinese coming in.
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rather than central americans because indians and chinese have more skills that we need. but the united states owes more to lot in america not so much to indian china. if there was any kind of sadness then if trade had anything with it all, it should depend on how much of another country. by any rate raising should be filled because of the genocide. france should be filled with tunisians and moroccans. the united states would be dominicans and hondurans. >> you were talking at the beginning about the whole idea of needing passports and getting from one place to another as the 20th century. it reminded me of a story, is teaching a second language and africa last year end one of the exercises that i have people do,
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if you could change world or do anything you wanted what would be five things you would do. and people say like in world hunger, create world peace, everyone will have an education and then i said, i would have no borders and everyone could travel anywhere. and they looked at me as if i were stark raving mad. create world peace, eliminate hunger, everybody have an education, doesn't it seem normal to want that, it's beyond their way of thinking that you could go anywhere in the world and did not need passports. i still think about that years "after words". >> in my book i say i'm not calling for open border i'm calling for open heart and open mind. it is open borders seems to be that the democrats are calling for open borders, that's what we had for most of the country and during age of mass migration in
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the 19th century, between the 1850s to 1940s, a quarter of europe got up and moved to the united states, with what consequences, the united states enslaved europe at the pinnacle and power. in a small measure of migration. it was hard exercise, can you imagine what if the batter onto her borders were to be abolished. it would be a huge surge and then in the short term the country would have to adopt tactics to deal with this movement. but in the long-term of health and human happiness get spread more, more people would stay home, migration is like the weather area of high pressure in area of low pressure and they will move from high to low pressure and no walls or borders will keep them out. when things get so dire there no choice but to move. but it is possible to imagine a
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border free world for people and what we have today is a border free world of nationals. the corporations can move as they want across the world but not human beings. >> are you against raising the demand for open borders? >> i think we should consider, that's a little above my pay grade. [laughter] i'm not a politician, an economist, but i have also entertained the argument for people on the other side and their people who say that the united states is like a lightning bolt it if too many people get on their wee wall sink. and you can't just have lots of people moving at the same time and migration. there are ways to build
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intelligently with an influx of people coming in all of the same time. i have been to the border communities on the mark inside, the schools and hospitals are getting overwhelmed. there are towns in long island, all the sudden there's all these people with needs, help lisa be given to those communities. intelligent ways of doing it, and expansion of our income tax credit which would help both the migrants as well as these low skilled or undereducated native americans that are affected by this kind of migration. another way to bos impose a tax or levy or fee on the corporations that benefit by immigration in the united states. all the tech companies. making billions and trains of dollars. and much of it is immigrant
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labor. there should be a fee which i think they would be willing to pay which could go from them to some of the communities most affected by migration. so there's a way of settling these migrants and the president recently said all the country is full, that is bul [bleep]. if you go to cities like utica, upstate, the town is connected and it's a rapid moving population in the days of ge have shut down and no young people are staying. the mayor heard about of group
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in richmond hill and queens, they do not need public assistance so he started coming down, the polish man albert szymanski did community forms in richmond hill and said come in he personally drove them around and show them the homes that they could up for little or no money, and drove them to his mother-in-law's house there is -- all of the cities, their small towns in maine which have been revitalized by migrants. the nadine one body for poor a r
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country. it doesn't have to be open borders or closed borders, one thing there is is a national and international debate, lots of heat and very little light. >> last call. >> in the beginning you talked about words and definitions and within the immigrant rights movement, for immigrants who are here now undocumented, to 1 degree or another, i have heard groups call for amnesty, for all
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immigrants who are here not detained or deported or living in pure. i have heard other people in immigrant rights movement saying we can't use the word amnesty because of the definition means you did something wrong and you're asking to be forgiven for. i think you get my point. what do you think of that? >> in the 1980s there was a far left politician who called for and passed a giant amnesty called ronald reagan. we have had the status of huge population in the public did not fault. we could easily do that right now with all 12 million undocumented or illegal or whatever name you want to use. for as many women and children,
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families are suffering and every day they have to wake up to a fresh set of tweets from the chief about moving the government forces on them and not knowing when the children go to school if the come back, not knowing when the mother goes to work in the next time they will hear from her in her country. horrific things, to a group who are here to work in the whole matter about them should be an apologetic way. they may have crossed borders but what they have done is not wrong, is not immoral. another word that we could used
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instead of amnesty is recognition. they can go from unrecognized to recognize people. recognition for the sacrifices, recognition for the works, recognition for the 1 billion and social security payroll taxes that were paid last year, the $13 billion for social security payments that they paid last year and only got 1 billion of that and benefits. language is important. that's why it may erase people but immigrants have to stop apologizing for having integrated, we have to stop apologizing for many of us. >> thank you so much.
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[applause] [inaudible] >> my name is kathleen jamison in my recent book is cyber war and hope they help the president what we do and can't no, necessarily in that order, you are watching the tv. book tv recently visited the reagan presidential library in simi valley california where mark levin offered his thoughts on the press. >> cnn is not a free press, msnbc is not a free press, the new york times is not a free press, the washington post is not a free press, a press is not pushing theological agenda in the back pocket of one party or another


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