tv [untitled] June 13, 2012 1:00pm-1:30pm EDT
in the middle east -- i think in syria, unprecedented things. first of all, the bravery of the syrian people which is my eyes is unbelievable. people are facing fire every day. a dictator that kills children. most shocking photo is to see a small infant. i and stand it. our people are reluctant to say -- my answer, an alternative. if there is no alternative -- this is the first time i express
my admiration to fight for their own freedom. the second point which is unpreceden unprecedented, arab league take responsibility against an arab country. as hillary mentioned already, between the united nations and arab league. i would say, gentlemen, now you know the situation. what is your proposal? you don't want anybody else to intervene because this will be foreign intervention. okay. do it yourself. and the united nations will support you. particularly, syria is a very complex case. you have the shiites.
it's either a dictator for them to be together or make them agr agree. they are ready. let them take responsibility. intervening. let us support them in any way we can. clearly humanitarian. i don't speak about -- we would like to help. not by arms but by food, by support, by voting. and i think right now this should be the decision. the leaders of the world, what can russians do? they'll be finely accused of intervening. so no single country can do it without being accused. the arab league should and can
do it. and if you ask for my advice, this should be diet policy. >> thank you. i wonder if we can shift to the palestinian issue for a moment. you know, here we say that the status quo between israel and the palestinians is unsustainable. but out there, where you live, if you look from day to day like government of israel, palestinian authority, even hamas, gaza, they seem to be satisfied with the status quo for the time being. in your view, is the status quo sustainable? >> i think kesinger said, foreign affairs, domestic situation. i can say about the rest of the
world the domestic situation is a result of the outside world. we cannot separate ourselves from the global oil, from the changes. it's moving. it's moving. and i think between us and the palestinians, there are some positive moves. for example, i would outline two. one is the economic development. because in order to make peace, you have to build a nation. and the palestinians started to build a nation. with the american help, with the israeli support. secondly, the palestinians have never had a force of their own. and i wouldn't like to generalize, but in the middle eastern towns, little forces.
palestine has a force of 15,000 youngsters that are loyal to him. and i think that abbas is a serious man. i've known him for a long time. actually he and myself signed agreement here on the lawn. >> just over there. >> yes. and it was presided by bill clinton. shall not forget it. 19 years passed since then. i wish it would be faster. but in all, you cannot make a baby become a boy in a short while. and the boy become a grown-up. age. it takes time. but it's going.
now i think is time to make peace with the palestinians. the israeli government. the palestinians understand not everything just happening in arab spring is necessarily bringing them time. because one of the important things about arab spring is the arab youngsters understand that their situation is not a result of the conflict between us and the palestinians. they know that it begins at home. what's happening in syria has nothing to with israel. what happened in tunisia has nothing to do with israel or libya. and i think we should let the arabs reform their lives and stop using the palestinian/israeli conflict as an excuse. now, elections are important.
i think the youngsters -- doing important things. they brought an end to dictatorship after the uprise of the youngsters. i don't really commend anybody who seeks a guaranteed job to be a dictator in the middle east. it became totally uncomfortable. forced people to go to elections. made a mistake, they didn't prepare themselves for the elections. even if you're a majority, if he opportunity have a solution for economic problems of egypt, the elections don't mean much. if they don't have a solution for the security, if egypt elections doesn't mean much. i will just say to people in egypt, don't forget more a moment that 60% of the
population are young people. the future is theirs. and they're sick and tired. they don't want to remain poor. they want freedom. many of them open their eyes. in tunisia, i watched that many of the demonstrators were young. while sick and tired of being discriminated. and by the way, if you discriminate women, you discriminate your people. because you allow only half of the people to participate in building the nation. but if the women don't have a chance to be educated, the children are uneducated. they don't give a future for the children. some percent of egyptians are illiterate. you have to reform at home. and believe me, i wish and i
pray that the young people are going to succeed, not because of us, because of them. they will have it the better we shall have it. >> sounded for a moment like shimon was channeling hillary. do you want to pick up on the women's issue in the arab spring and your view of how things are going for the women in this process? >> well, i think it's too soon to tell. i think shimon is right that we have a transition that we're going through to get to whatever future there will be, and it's not going to happen quickly and it's going to have, i would expect, some bumps in the road and difficulties along the way. but i believe that one of the important indicators as to how
the whole process of democratization, political reform, economic reform, is going is the way that the newly formed governments and their allies in the various countries treat women. and to that end, there is, you know, both -- there's mixed news. there is some positive news in that there are certain guarantees being put forth about women's rights and opportunities, but there are some worrying actions that certainly don't match those guarantees. and i think that raises the larger issue. because shimon is right that tee mo
democracy has to tlideliver. a lot of what was behind revolutions of the middle east and north africa was economic aspirations that were not being met. outrage at corruption. the difficulty of doing business. the doors that would slam in one's face. the absence of jobs. even if you were an educated young person. so there has to be a level of economic returns for people's leap of faith and investment in a democratic future. and that is going to be extremely hard. every one of the countries that is making these changes has a lot of work to do to open up their economy to two after corruption and the like. at the same time the political reforms that are occurring and
the commitment to democracy, albeit quite not yet clear in the minds of leaders or citizens, is raising a lot of issues. because for us, democracy is not one election, one time. we're not sure exactly how others see this democratic enterprise that they have signed on to. because democracy is about building institutions, it's about extending rights to everyone, protecting rights of minorities, ensuring that people are equal under the law, requiring independent judiciary, free press and all the rest. so it's not just what happens to women. although we will keep a very close watch on what is happening to women. it is what is happening to the democratic experiment. and what we're trying to is
encourage the countries that are pursuing this to keep reaching out, learning from the experiences of others. most recently, the post-soviet nations but also latin america. if, you know, we only with a long 236-year experiment, and people in the region may or may not think we're a relevant example. we've encouraged a lot of outreach to countries, military dictatorships, totalitarian regimes and to find common cause with their experience. and i think we also have to have a certain level of both humility and patience. we have to call out at any turn developments that we think endanger the democratic
enterprise. the con ssolidation of power, authoritarian tendencies and the like. we also have to recognize we didn't have a straight line. there are a lot of changes that we had to do as we moved toward a more perfect union. we didn't include everybody in the first run. we excluded women, among others. we had to fight a civil war to extend citizenship to former slaves. i mean, we have to be honest enough to recognize that time has sped up and to some extent the work that has to be done in building these new democracies is much harder today than it was even after the berlin wall fell. i mean, every single move is now scrutinized, spread around the world through social media. it's really hard. so even if the people involved
are coming at it with the best of intentions, foogood faith, they're going to face setbacks and challenges to their decision making and other problems that will make what they're attempting to do in the economic and political round very difficult. so women are the canaries in the mine, as many have said before, in these societies. in many societies. how they're treated, whether they're included, will tell us a lot about what we can expect from the democratic movements that are ongoing. but i think we have to do all we can to, you know, support the right tendencies and decisions in order to get the right outcome. >> thank you. mr. president, if i can shift to iran. >> i want to say, where are all the women? seem more optimistic than
hillary about women. you know, president obama asked me who's against democracy in the middle east. i told him, the husbands. they don't want to share with the women equal rights. so why are we becoming optimistic? my optimism stems from a different point. today the children are on the side of their fathers, not on the side of their mothers. and that is my hope, they understand that if they want to reform, really their country, and many of them in cities. and requested modern communication. they won't give up. democracy is a little bit complicated because some people think democracy is another --
from being a muslim to be a democrat. well, it's not the case. because islam is a spiritual position. not an economic doctrine. and for that reason, i'm a little bit even more optimistic than you are. and i think one should watch the combination of the women and the youngsters. and the fathers may find themselves all of a sudden -- the future so that -- these are my notes of optimism. >> thank you. you had a question about iran then.
all right, shimon. in 1981 you recall you were opposed to the use of -- in 1981 you were opposed to the use of preventative force against iraq's nuclear program. and i wonder when you look back on that, what were you thinking about that at the time? what was your reason for opposition? >> and say iran -- in history, we have many very friendly relations and now very dangerous. so i'm asking myself, why are we really against iran? is it just because the nuclear bomb?
the world against iran is that in the 21st century the iranian leaders, not the iranian people, are the only one that wants to renew imperialism. we can't accept it. from that it started. that's the reason many arabs are against not iran but the iran n iranian -- the iranians don't say it should be arabic because they're not arabs. they want to say muslim because they're muslims. and we see the way they want to construct an empire. by sending money. sending arms. hanging. bluffing. we cannot support it. the world cannot support it. whether you're a russian -- speaking with putin and medvedev
to say we cannot support a nuclear iran. now, if iran will win, the whole middle east will become the victor. actually the world economy could become the victor. because the way they rule is without any regard to anybody else. and this is the first problem. we cannot allow it to happen. all of us. the second thing is the way -- it's against the machiavellian formula. you can kill, you can lie, you can collect arms. we are over it. we cannot return to it. it's a human problem. the globe is already so
complicated. it doesn't govern without the government. this is alternative. i'm afraid that some accomplice may take advantage if the iranians will win in iraq, in syria, in lebanon. and they won't stop. wherever there is a chance of gaining, we can't agree with it. and that is why the nuclear weapons became so dangerous. because they sell by purpose. and nobody can guarantee that they will restrain. and it's governed by a single man who nominated himself as the deputy of mohammed.
my god. it stops. and it's a situation they're not aware of anybody that threatens iran. that wants to press iran on govern iran. iran could have flourished without it. they're a large country. they have a large culture. who's against iran? we're against a policy that endangered our age. and unfortunately, most the time i can understand exactly the united states of america. we can say about the united states, why did you do this, why did you do that? iran can't take away from the united states. their history. there is no trace of imperialism in america.
yesterday i've been at the headquarters of your army. i thought, the only army that doesn't fight to conquer or occupy. but fights for freedom and peace, not only for america, for the rest of the world. historically speaking, the americans are fighting for values. no matter if you do this or do that. so you cannot be caring of the rest of the world any differently to iran. and the iranians are speeding up. they're taking the american process of democracy and making the wrong use of it. so i believe that the president represents the deepest assumptions and concepts of the american history. everything else. i think there it is profound and
serious. so the president said rightly, i want to try with nonmilitary means, which is typically american. rightly so. but america understands if this is the only option, the iranians would laugh at them. okay, then she'll be free? then they said, the americans are saying there are options on the table, please don't forget it. we're aware of the time element as well. so this is the way really i look at it. i don't take it -- ambition. clearly we are more sensitive than others because when nobody threatens iran, iran threatens us. what did we do to them? we're the only country which is being threatened to be destroyed by them.
the great and major danger that we are facing. >> madame secretary, tell us how it's going, the initial optimism with the iaea as well. both tracks, the iaea and negotiations taking place. there's a sense not much progress is being made. is that an accurate perception? >> well, i think the point of the negotiations is to do exactly what shimon said, which we have been consistent in pursuing since the beginning of the obama administration. to have a credible pressure track that united the entire world. that was not the case when president obama took office, and it now is. it's quite remarkable that not
only the international community in general but the p-5-plus-1 and most particularly china and russia have remained as committed and forceful in the diplomatic negotiations with iran over the nuclear program. there will be, as you know, meetings in moscow starting next week, over the weekend, and there is a unified position being presented by the p-5-plus-1 that gives iran, if it is interested in taking a diplomatic way out, a very clear path that would be verifiable and would be linked to action for action.
which has been the approach that we've advocated and that has been agreed upon. i can't, sitting here today, tell you what the iranians will or won't do, but i am quite certain that they are under tremendous pressure from the russians and the chinese to come to moscow, prepare to respond. now, whether that response is adequate or not, we will have to judge. they, for about the last ten days, have been pushing to get a so-called experts meeting, pushing to try to even postpone moscow in the absence of such meeting and there was not a single blink by any of the negotiators. then as you saw in the news, there was a statement that, yes,
the iranians would show up. my counterpart from russia, sergei lavrof is either there or on his way there. you know, the russians have made it very clear that they expect the iranians to advance the discussion in moscow, not to just come, listen and leave. we'll know once it happens, but i think that the unity and the resolve that has been shown thus far is of real significance because clearly the threats that shimon outlined are very real. the continuing effort by the iranians to extend their influence and to use terror as a
tool to do so, extends to our hemisphere and all the way to east asia. so the threat is real. we're dealing with a regime that has ambitions. those who live in the near neighborhood are well aware of that. trying to manage it and avoid the iranians' ability to score points and create more islands of influence is, you know, one of the great challenges that we are coping with. but i just want to end with a story that i brought back from georgia last week. i was in patumey, which my friend, george talbot, knows well, which is being turned into a mini las vegas on the black sea. lots of casinos, big hotels. all kinds