tv Politics and Public Policy Today CSPAN September 18, 2015 3:00pm-5:01pm EDT
it's a homeland security consulting firm, specializing in risk and capability assessments, exercise and evaluations. he served as the first director of the office of state and local coordination for the u.s. department of homeland security. josh coauthored the homeland security presidential directive eight on national preparedness that we followed early in the history of homeland security. he served on numerous boards to including the homeland security policy institute at george washington university. please welcome josh filler. josh, thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, joe. good afternoon, everyone. again i'm josh filler. i'll be serving as the moderator on today's panel. when we think about emergency preparedness and response, we generally tend to think of firefighters and police officers and sheriff's deputies and the like. and while that makes a lot of
sense, it's also true that lawyers for the agencies that those responders work for also play a very, very important role. and we're privileged today to have an outstanding panel of lawyers from various agencies at the federal and local level, some now in private practice, who have served in those important roles or do so today. and to give us some insights about the role of a lawyer in emergency preparedness and response. and with that i'd like to introduce the panel by having them introduce themselves to you and then we'll get right into it. >> good afternoon, i'm adrian sevier. i'm the chief county of the emergency management agency. i've been with fema for 15 years. i've had a variety of positions at the agency starting what we called then a field attorney. so i deployed to the joint field offices that fema sets up when
the president declares a major disaster or emergency. i've held a variety of positions at fema. and again i've been the chief council since -- for about a year now. >> i'm dan connelly, i started my year as a prosecutor in new york city and served as counsel in mayor giuliani's administration in new york for eight years culminating and serving as his liaison to the federal government in the aftermath of the attacks in september of 2001. and since then i've been in private practice both on the consulting side initially helping on the corporate side helping companies prepare for crisis. and then more recently just good old-fashioned practicing of law. >> good afternoon. my name is george grasso.
i started in government as a new york city police officer 22 years old in 1979 and went to law school on the job and worked may way up the ranks ultimately becoming the deputy commissioner for legal matters of the niend in 1987 which is essentially the chief legal counsel of the niend. i held that job for five years, until 2002, during which unfortunately new york city had to endure the 9/11 attacks. among other things, i'll discuss in more detail, but on that day, i was assigned by the police commission of the city of new york to be his personal liaison and representative with the fbi at the fbi command center where dan and i had already been working closely on a variety of topics. we then put a team together and
worked closely for several months after that. in 2002 ray kelly made me his first deputy police commissioner which is number two in the nypd, a job i had for eight years. in 2010 mayor bloomberg made me a judge in the criminal court in the city of new york. and in 2012 i was appointed by the administrative judge of the criminal court to be the supervising judge for the city of new york, a position i now hold. >> good afternoon. my career is not as colorful as my colleagues. my name is marie claire-brown. i am with the district of columbia, department of health. i was in private practice for 12 years after which i decided to move over to the government. i've been a district of columbia attorney for the past 18 1/2 years. i am currently the senior
assistant general counsel for the department of health, health emergency preparedness and response administration. and so in that capacity i do a lot of what we're here to talk about today. and i'm looking forward to a great panel. >> very good. so, adrian, let's start with you. fema has developed the disaster operations legal reference. it's a rather large document that goes through a number of different issues that obviously fema and others have to deal with from a disaster response perspective. what was the impetus behind putting that document together and what benefits have accrued as a result of having constructed it? >> so my office is charged with providing legal advice in crisis. that's primarily what we do. we advise emergency managers with the federal emergency
management agency during, prior to and after disasters and emergency declarations. we work very hard to facilitate, empower and give our staff what they need to work in that environment. so we give them laptops, ipads, smartphones that can be operated with a hot spot. we give them tools, such as tear sheets that are quick and dirty reference material on 60 to 70 legal issues that come up in a post disaster environment. and one of those tools is the disaster operations legal reference which we call the dollar by its acronym. that is 400 to 500 pages of reference material that covers pretty much everything that an emergency management lawyer at fema might face in a post-declaration environment. and it's not by any means an
authoritative recitation of the law but on all of the topics that might come up, it provides a succinct, easy to understand explanation, along with obviously the appropriate statutory and regulatory references. it's just really a great tool that they have always at their disposal. it's on their ipads so wherever they go it's wheith them and provides the reference material for them. >> how would you say it has improved counsel and advice to state and local agencies that might be seeking advice? >> when i start, i can remember literally sitting on the floor at some eoc somewhere without connectivity to the internet with whatever i could carry with me in terms of reference materials until someone could set up a table and a computer
for me. today attorney may still be sitting on the floor but they'll have internet connectivity, they'll have the reference material and they can hit the ground running. and of course time is of the essence in a response environment. so they are never at a loss for the materials that they need, so the responsiveness has improved dramatically. and of course the timeliness of our advice is critical. these sorts of tools, the technology that we provide has made a huge difference in terms of that timeliness factor. >> so keeping on point here with on the preparedness side of things, marie claire, the district put together a legal handbook, some would argue modeled off of fema's dollar. what was the driving force behind the district taking that step, a step that many other local jurisdictions have not taken? >> so, as adrian said, it's a
situation where time is of the essence. with what he had was several different agencies that are responsible for several different aspects of response. and as we all know, there are always silos. and in this, in this particular situation, the district was going through its updating the preparedness framework and district response plan in early 2014. this became -- and forgive me. i am not with the department of homeland security, which actually -- the district's appointment of homeland security and emergency management which actually prepared this document. but i was one of the persons involved with its development. the department of health had already, back in the second
natur inaugural i had prepared a manual for public health emergency preparedness. and that included all of the potential issues that could arise, case law that we may need, form documents, public health emergency declarations, et cetera. and those documents were provided to senior officials as well as colleagues in the general counsel's office so we would have them in the event they were needed. and that document actually is the same framework that this stuff -- that the district's emergency preparedness legal handbook is based on. and we use thumb drives and handed them out to whoever needed to have them. at the end of the day, you don't know what's going to happen. internet is probably going to be the first thing to goes down in
an emergency. we have these at our fingertips. our is not as in-depth as fem fema's. our document is half that size. but it includes checklists for various agency counsel who may be called on to respond to various things. it's tied to the esf structure and -- for example, the department of health, we have a specific role in there and then we work down from there coordinating with other agencies and their counsel. it's been a great thing. in fact, what it's led to is the department of health is in the process of publishing a public health emergency preparedness legal manual and bench book because we recognize that not only do agency counsel need to have this information, but the judiciaries is often forgotten. we've been working with the courts. we're doing a seminar on 9/11 of this year for training, law and
science for judges. so all of these things are an evolving process. it's a living document. and as things happen, for example, when this was released, there was no -- you know, ebola was not on anyone's mind. and i'll stop there. >> we will definitely be talking about ebola here. so moving a little past on the preparedness side and actually diving into some real world incidents, i'm going to start with george and dan on this, and start by asking on september 11th, 2001, could each of you briefly describe where you were and what you were doing? >> well, ironically, can and i were supposed to be together in washington, d.c. that day. as i mentioned earlier, dan and i had evolved as kind of a bit of a tag team with me being the chief lawyer for the nypd and
dan being my chief liaison and cooperation counsel and also with mayor. there had been an issue regarding a world economic forum that was being planned in 2001. and actually the federal government had wanted 1,000 new york city police officer to come to d.c. and to help to police the event. and dan and i were responsible to kind of figure out how that would work. and frankly we had some concerns pertaining to civil liability issues for police officers, should there be incidents that new york city police officers -- it would have been a novel circumstance, and that's a lot of police officers, 1 nourks. what if the officers got hurt. dan was here setting up a meeting in the attorney general's office and i was going to brief the commissioner in the morning and get a train and meet you. >> the moment of the attack, i was actually here in d.c. and
then spent much of the next 12 hours finding ways to get back to new york city. but it was a, you know, obviously a completely unprecedented conversation. i have to remark on listening to my fellow panelists and the programs they're putting in place to prepare people, and to prepare especially the lawyers. i think it's -- the more work that's done, i think this will be a major issue on the panel today. but the more work that's done on a blue sky day in prae pairing for what's to come, no matter even if you haven't directly anticipated the disaster, it will be brought to bear. we spent a lot of time under the giuliani administration with the officers and office of emergency management preparing for disasters. obviously we didn't conceive of and think of preparing for this
disaster. but all of the techniques, all of the concepts, everybody's role was roughly understood in advance. and having been able to fall back on a playbook much along the lines of what doh here in d.c. and what fee maz has done, enormously valuable. and when we look at the situation, we oftentimes think about, when i say situation, responding to disasters or attacks, you know, we think of the major cities which are somewhat more robust and more mature in their response capabilities. but we need to be thinking about those areas in the united states that are -- that have less robust first responder capability but are equally vurnable or as vulnerable. for me i was getting back to new york, teaming up with then
commissioner grasso, getting briefed by the mayor. it was going to be my role in the event of a disaster to be his liaison with the government. that plugged in nicely by about 24 hours after the attack. george and i were positioned with the federal cleverly, the decision was made to separate the governments. the city and state had their temporary headquarters on a cruise ship -- rnls starting at theed a my. >> and then the federal government and federal agencies set up in a hidden garage. it was secret. i recall george and i just one moment of humor, we had been, you know, told as liaisons, we were going to be told the location of this garage but that it was a secret. we couldn't tell our families.
it was very important that the federal government and all of its agencies be protected in the event of a secondary attack. took it quite seriously. i remember heading there thinking is anybody following me. i get there and it's a garage on the west side -- >> parking garage. >> but in front of it they have sandbags and a mounted gun. i think you might be giving it away. >> although unfortunately in new york on that day, it wasn't the only locations with sandbags and mounting guns. but just to stay on the theme of where we were that day -- and i think just in terms of practicality and overarching takeaway concept for people who are general counsels or find themselves as lawyers or in any way involved in something like that, i can sum up in one word the overarching requirement required on that day and it would be going forward,
flexibility. one word from what i said, write down the word flexibility. dan talked about plans. you know, one thing about new york city and the nypd, we love to have plans. it's great. framework, things like that. i came up through the ranks as a police officer. i fully understood that. but you know what? a lot of what we did and certainly what i was doing on that day in the first 24 hours, there was really no playbook for. and you know, what happened is that, you know, i was just a cascading series of events. i gave the precursor about how i started the day and i remember clearly, i was driving in on the long island express way all focused. it was a big deal for me to be going to the attorney general's office to start scoping out this plan that had never been done before. obviously i'm thinking of that. i'm getting a call as i'm
entering the midtown tunnel, someone named joe dunn. as i tried to pick up his call, we lost contact. by the time i tried to reconnect with joe, thinking we were going to be talking about what we were going to be doing in washington, i get through to his secretary and as she was getting ready to put me into joe, she started screaming about a plane hitting the trade center and hanging up. and just as that happens, i'm coming on to the fdr drive just in time to see the first building that had been hit, the north tower. and it was just this monstrous fire. i mean, it was tremendously scary. and to fast forward, that was close to the building and i went into the building with a friend of mine who was instrument tall in taking action to stop what would have be a major terrorist
attack in brooklyn, which is another story. we're looking at each other thinking, is that what we're dealing with or is it an accident. just as i got in the building, i went into the commissioner's office and that's where i saw the second plane come in and hit. we all knew we were in attack mode. you know, fast forwarding, i'm thinking about my brain is racing. now all of the sudden the whole thing with washington, which was such a big short shortly is completely forgotten and thinking about what are we going to do, what should my role be. what role did i see for myself as deputy commission of legal matters. and really not working with any kind of a disaster playbook but pulling into mind, what did i typically do for the job. what was i particularly good at. and you know, it dawned on me
that we had top commanders, operational commanders right on the scene at the base of the world trade center trying to figure out how they were going to direct things operationally. i remember from previous training, one of our great problems had been is everybody in the world tries to respond to the scene and you create this gridlock atmosphere and nobody can do anything about anything. so i thought to myself, let me get to the scene, let me attach -- i figured the chief of manhattan south, he's a big tall 6'6" guy, alan hail, couldn't miss him. let me find chief heal, he's going to be there. let me attach myself to hale and i can start running interferns with all of the city and state people, federal people and try and create some space for the operational people to do their job. so i was on my way there and i came -- i made a point of passing a location called 75
barclay, which is literally a stone's throw from the towers. and that's where mayor giuliani was setting up with the police commissioner. and then i -- that's when i ran into dunn, and i told dunn what i wanted to do. and dunn said, you know, we were lo looking at the flames, and literally what we could see at the time, it looked like, you know, from a ticker tape parade, was actually the metal and bodies. that's the scene we were looking at from the top towers. it was really something ripped out of a science fiction thing. and joe said to me that he would rather that i go back to headquarters because we were setting up a situation room in police headquarters. as bad as that was at the time, we did not see the towers coming down. in fact it was five minutes before the first tower came down. but we didn't see that happening. so we were looking at an
unprecedented disaster and an attack. but in terms of the event, a long-time fire. dunn wanted me to assist setting up the situation room at 1 police plaza, police headquarters. so that probably saved my life because it turned me around for about a block in the other direction. and then the raw -- i thought when the south tower came down, i actually saw the third plane hit. it was still -- i was right there -- >> george, let's stop right there for one second. i want to come back to that in one moment. but i want to bring adrian into this conversation. because unlike 9/11, which was a no-notice event for us, literally planes coming out of nowhere, superstorm sandy which obviously had a tremendous and devastating impact on much of the northeast was a notice event. you knew it was coming.
we could all see it on the weather channel. what were you doing in the time leading up to that disaster as either the deputy counsel at the time, trying to assist your leadership in getting ready for what everyone knew was going to be a catastrophic event? >> before i address that point, just very briefly on the no-notice event. the vast majority of states, localities don't have attorneys dedicated to emergency management. and so oftentimes the attorneys called upon are from the department of health or police or fire or other emergency responder legal counsel offices. and one of the things that's really important for all of them to remember and to be mindful of is you first have to make sure that the legal office itself can function post event. you know, what if your legal office is destroyed by a fire or a flood or a hurricane, can you actually perform your function?
i just want to put a flung there for all legal offices, especially in the public sector to be aware and to plan and consider continuity of operations. where is your server, your backup data. how do you reach your attorneys if you're unable to report to the office. all of that is very important so in the very least, in a post-environment event, have the capacity to access your data and information and fundamentally, your people. in an event where we have notice, my office has the luxury of a couple hundred attorneys that are spread across the country that we can deploy and activate wherever we need to. so we have attorneys that are assigned the sole role of deploying to field offices, we have teams that train together, we have attorneys in ten different regions across the country.
and sew as fema begins to activate in preparation for an approaching hurricane, for example, the lawyers are activated right along with all of those elements. and there can be many attorneys. and probably for an approaching hurricane, we would probably have 40 to 50 attorneys dedicated to just that function. we have that luxury because that's what we do for a living. most state and local governments don't have that many attorneys. so it's really important,especially folks that are the ability to have notice of an event in advance really pay attention to the various readiness activities you can undertake to at least be able to take over those duties when need be. >> very good. so marie claire, obviously sandy did not have a direct impact on the district, although i know having been here at the time
that it was something we were all looking out for. but there was another more recent incident that affected really the globe coming out of africa primarily and was affecting us all, through the television if not directly and that was the ebola crisis. tell us a little bit about, as that began to unfold and got a lot of media attention, traps a disproportionate amount, what was your leadership looking for from you in terms of how the district was going to respond to that if in fact you had a case break out inside the district? >> so as far as ebola is concerned, the director of the department of health, dr. garcia, was responsible for all things equal in the district. and i am the sole counsel for health emergency preparedness.
but at least we have one. we had the benefit of having already gotten a lot of our authorities and all of those requirements together. whatever the circumstance was, we'd be able to push out a public health emergency declaration. but i'll step back and say in the district of columbia, the department of health cannot declare a public health emergency unless the mayor declares a public emergency first. the mayor must do it. but in getting ready for ebola, there were a lot of things that were happening at the same time. and while the focus was primarily on what was going on in the new york/new jersey area,
there was a similar situation with dulles airport being one of the major international airports as well. there were a series of documents that needed to be created quickly, things that nobody really thought about. we've got quarantine and isolation law, regulations, orders, all of those things, but nothing specific to this case. and so what we had to do, we had to work closely with our regional partners in carving out something that was going to work for everybody with the district of columbia. people coming into dulles are filling out a form if they are determined to be -- if they were determined to be likely a candidate for follow-up. if they met some of the criteria at dulles airport, they reported they were going to a hotel in springfield, they might be coming to the ritz carlton in d.c. so we don't really have control
over what's happening. you have to take people's information on face value. that was a situation that raised hairs. what we did in the district -- dr. garcia determined that he was not going to force quarantine. and so what we did was we created two agreements, one being a voluntary -- well, we have the voluntary reporting -- the mandatory reporting on a daily basis which was reported to our disease surveillance and epidemiology folks here. we then had, for persons who had been exposed, we had a voluntary isolation in lieu of forced quarantine agreement that would be signed. and those people also had to report on a daily basis. before we got any of those things together, i will say for the new yorkers here, i got on the phone and i spoke with roz
buckles and i spoke with a couple of other people in new york city just to make sure that we were somewhat on the same page and had some consistency. and so we were ready to move forward, you know, on. same battle rhythm. we had -- while everyone was focused on casey hick cox, we had a situation here, attorneys do what attorneys do. we received notice from an attorney that his client was not going to force -- was not going to quarantine herself and he was challenging the force quarantine. it was fortunately resolved and so, you know, we never had any issues with news media. that was just one of the things that we had to do. but there were just a series of documents that we had to come up with. we had to come up with a -- you know, quickly come up with all of the authorities because we
knew we were going to get challenges. >> right. >> and the main thing was just ensuring that the legal folks were involved regionally in the tracking, the patient tracking, the development and the resolution of these cases. >> so dan and george, let's pick it up on 9/11. obviously the planes have gone in, you're scrambling. talk to us a little bit about what ultimate assignments you were given by the mayor and the police commissioner once things started to, at least not settle down, but at least some idea what we were going to do to respond. >> i'll pick up where i left off. and again, i'm starting with my overriding theme of flex about and initiative. initially nobody was giving me assignments. i was giving myself assignments. i talked about how i was going
to the towers. and then i saw dunn, dunn told me to go back to the building, get to the eighth floor and start getting the command center going. he thought he was going to go spend a little time with the mayor. the way the day worked out. the police commissioner stayed attach to the mayor and joe dunn ended back in 1 pp kind of running operations from the building which was absolutely crucial. but then there's that explosion. i think it's a third plane. and i'm sure everybody here has seen those clouds. you know, when you watch it on television, it can look like the clouds were a little slow. but i actually saw the clouds hit into the canyons and i was monstrous. i was with a couple of people and we got hit with the clouds. when that happened you thought you were dead. i throw that in just in the context.
we're talking about all kinds of disasters here from zero to ten. you have to be able to deal with that. i thought it was dead. but i wasn't, you know. fortunately we got through that cloud and then me and one of my men, you know, we got into a little delicatessen store and we were strategizing, what do you do. i stayed focused on, look, the last thing dunn told me, go to building. i told the detective who was with me, let's get to headquarters and we left. now at that time, in my mind-set, i was thinking just about everybody behind me -- and i knew i was leaving the mayor and the police commissioner and the first deputy commissioner at 75 barclay. i didn't know if anybody made it. that's the kind of mind-set, you know, people were having on that day. the rumors were running rampant about who didn't make it.
there were rumors about me, rumors about everybody. i got back into headquarters. again, i'm emphasizing you're working when you find yourself in something like that, you're working with limited and evolving information. phones were down immediately. we weren't running around doing texting. texting came into the police department after this incident because it was within of the few things that was held up that day, except none of us were doing it. it wasn't much help. i got into headquarters thinking that more planes were coming in. and that police headquarters could be a substantial target. and not knowing where the hierarchy was. so i made my way up to the command center on the eighth floor and there was a chief -- you know, it was very helpful for me -- this depends where you find yourself in an agency. i kind of grew up in that
agency. i knew how it worked and who the people were and the players. but the more you know, if you're in the general counsel's role, the more you can figure out, to know the inside/out. not just policies and laws but who the people are, how things are done. it's crucial in a whole variety of respects. my first task that aassigned myself, because i was the top ranking person because it's civilian authority in the police department and i was the deputy commissioner. i grabbed the chief and i didn't want to panic anybody but i put a couple of cops on just trying to figure out whether every lines we were. my number one goal at that time, where's the mayor, where's the police commissioner, what's your line of authority. and also start figuring out what our logistics were. fortunately about a half-hour into this, dunn came in all covered with the same stuff i was covered with and i was real
happy because he's my friend and then i felt frankly a little burden had been lifted. and then es pa zea do, the chief of department came in. then what i did, the first thing i did was i facilitated the conversation with dunn about whether or not we should stay in police headquarters. and we had to think that through. because by that time we figured -- i figured out that the buildings had fallen. but we still didn't know -- there were all of these planes flying around. and it would make sense that police headquarters could be a target. we had that conversation and decided to stay in police headquarters which obviously turned out to be a good decision. so as time went on in there -- these were all self assignments, i was just mixing in and adapting to the situation. then we got word from the federal government, who had not
yet moved to the garage. at that time hayed that moved out of 26 broadway which is their main operation then and now, but for a variety of concerns, they moved out of 26 fed. they moved across the street to a location on church street. but we had no communication with them. that's when i got an assignment from joe dunn, on behalf of the police commissioner and the department that they need a high level person, we got to get somebody over there, we have to start communicating in real time. get over there. now a funny story that, you know, josh asked me to tell. josh and i also work, and dan work together as well. he worked for the mayor at the time. we were intersecting in various ways. when i was leaving the building to go to the church location, church street, they actually had brought down a metal gate, you
know, that we had never used in -- we have this gate for the police garage. and i go down to get my car thinking i could use a car and we had -- all of the cars were trapped in the basement. nobody could figure out how to get the gate back up. so i was incredulous about it. how can we do it? somebody says, well, commissioner, you know, we have a welder, you know, so in no certain language, i said get the welder and chop it off. the whole hierarchy of the police department is stuck in the basement of the building. but you know, crazy things happen, you know. >> that's why your flexibility point is a good one. >> a whole variety of scores. so then i got over to the fbi, introduced myself to the head of the new york office and mary joe white, the u.s. -- i knew mary joe. i hasn't worked with barry
before. the u.s. attorney for southern district was there and the whole team of people were beginning to assemble. the job of the day was -- and then i'll let dan what he wants to add maybe as we get into what the garage operation looked like the next day. but the job of the day was communication. the first tangible thing i did in that assignment, just to show how bad the communication was in that sense, throughout the entire day to that point, mary and mayry joe, the head of the new york fbi office and the head of the southern district had not met directly with the mayor. fortunately is since i was able to get a car out of the garage, i had a car. and i brought them physically to the police academy on 20th street where mayor giuliani had set up. it was perfect timing because we had the mayor there, governor
pataki there, josh was there at that point. and just to give everybody a sense of the scope, the unprecedented scope of what we were all dealing with at that time, the crime scene, everybody in csi world, get the crime scene. the crime scene at that time and the frozen zone was everything south of 14th street. everything south of 14th street to the tip of manhattan. and the big decision that had to be made is whether or not we were going to keep the frozen zone at 14th street or cut it to canal street. that was a bold decision. we're going to reduce the crime scene to canal street. then we had to make decisions about bridges and tunnels. because nobody knew what could happen under those circumstances. we were working with extremely limited information. so as i keep going back to that word flexibility, you know,
whether it was originally thinking i was going to go to the actual scene, whether or not i was going to set up the command center, whether or not i was going to make decisions as to what the hierarchy of government was going to be that was relevant to police operations, whether or not we were going to stay in the building or leave the build, these were all things -- and a lot of it was self-assignments and using knowledge and experience and working through a situation. >> along the lines of the best laid plans, apropos of preparedness that fema preaches now, i had the emergency orders. the mayor has the authority to give the emergency order. i thought cleverly to have a bind are of all of the emergency orders printed out in case we didn't have power. and cd rom, 1990s technology and i had two sets of it. one in the emergency command center, which was destroyed in
the first minutes of the attack and the other i kept in the trunk of my car which i parked near any office on church street which was destroyed. so we didn't have the benefit -- we thought -- we had the idea. an earlier speaker from department of homeland security was analogizing that the agency, dhs was 15 years old and it us much like a teenager. the pros and the cons of a teenager. and i was sitting in the back thinking that was really quite interesting. and i think if you put yourself back in the time of 2001, the same set of awareness or preparedness or maturity in thinking about how to approach these issues was more like an infant or maybe even embryonic. there was a lot of creativity required in those times. and as a lawyer, you know, the role was being the facilitator.
the operations folks had their hands, you know, full dealing with unprecedented concerns, issues that were coming up literally every second. and your job as the lawyer was to figure out a way to make it work, or help them prioritize on the things that mattered. at one point in a moment of clarity the deputy mayor asked me, because we had closed the bridges and tunnels. and two of those tunnels connect manhattan with another state. and he asked me does the mayor have that authority. and my response as lawyer was, who cares. sometimes you have to say, who is going to sue it at this point. we'll figure it out later. but it's a -- you know, the job is a difficult one. what i find so encouraging 15 years on is the fact that we've taken these lessons. we continue to institutionalize,
build into the infrastructure of local and state government all of these lessons learned so that you're not making this up on the fly. having said that, you're still, as counsel, always going to have to be creative, even if it's a noticed event. we can know that superstorm sandy is heading our way, but you may have no idea of the impact it's going to have in certain regions or the type of flooding associated with it. we lost a big chunk of the subway system in that storm. that's the real challenges. and i think, i think we've come a long way. i think we'll never be quite there. but that's a good thing. it is a dynamic process. >> well said in terms of the role of the attorney in those circumstances. we try to train our attorneys to function in that way. but often, you know, many local governments and state and city governments will have attorneys there who haven't faced that sort of situation before and you really do have to let go of the
ordinary risk analysis to sometimes just say, in these circumstances who cares. we don't have any other choice. >> right. >> and that can be a very important role of the attorney to reassure the client that what they need to do operationally, it's okay. go ahead and do it and we'll clean up after the fact. >> exactly right. >> what i would like to do before we open it up to questions from the floor, i would like to focus in on two things, really obstacles and lessons learned. and come back to the new york 9/11 and zero in on the issue that i know both george and dan were tasked with dealing with, and that is as liaisons for information, or the lack of information between the federal government and the city of new york. and talk a little bit about some of the obstacles that you encountered in performing that critical role and some of the lessons that you learned as a result of the unprecedented task
that you were given. >> so, several obstacles that fly off the page is to reiterate something i said earlier. all of the -- all of the normal modes of communication, other than face-to-face communication, were either down or unreliable. you know, well, at least for several weeks if not more into the event. so we had to -- but yet, the normal modes of communications were down, but the need for information skyrocketed. i mean, in the garage -- we call it the garage operation. the garage, those of us who are alumni in that garage, the best way if i can help you visualize it, if anybody here has ever seen the movie "sting" and they set up like the big wire room, you know. that's kind of like what this was. they jerry handed like a wire
room operation and they had these long tables and we had every -- all the time we probably ended up with 100 or 150 people in that garage, you know, from every federal, city and state entity or agency you could think of. people had liaisons at the garage. and then they had this lead desk. they had this pile of leads. and the leads were coming in by the dozens. and nobody thought -- in the mix, one thing just to throw things out that i know people would be familiar with. it was the whole anthrax scare that came up in the middle of this, people were actually dying. it was -- stuff was happening. so we were tasked, in the pd and i set up a little table, you know, literally right outside the door of morton's office. and you know, with no previous background in training in counter terrorism and things like that, i find myself -- and
to his credit, he let me in and dan and i were involved in these conference calls and information that was coming around the country. and we had to figure out what was hot, what we needed to push to the pd hierarchy, what we needed to push to mayor giuliani. and there were a couple of controversial things that, you know, significant things that we just had to run, literally and find the mayor physically and get his feedback. he was tremendously supportive throughout, i would have to say, as would be expected. so we had that. but then -- here's another thing that's crucial. is we -- there was a culture. we were going against culture. and it's -- on the federal end, there were various issues among the federal government themselves as to intelligence side and criminal side and who communicates what with who in the whole nypd had certain
information and certain ways of doing things. the fbi had certain information and certain way -- and then we were thrust into the middle of all of that. and it was extremely murky. and frankly, i'm notframework h bold and assertive on a few occasions, you know. as the lawyer. to get the job done, and to say look, it's not about me. you know, i'm not here for me. i'm here as a crucial vehicle. and if there's information here that could be relevant to protecting the city of new york i need to get that and i need to take that where -- and then people ultimately went along with that. one of the tangible things that we did, you know, just moving along because time is short, seeing that, working with dan and with josh, i had the police department actually starting in the fall of 2001, work on federal legislation that
ultimately became the homeland security information sharing act. probably one of the fastest moving pieces of legislation between the fall of '01 and the fall of 2002, we were able, and you could look it up i believe under 6 u.s.c. 491, and the relevant sections are 891 to 893. where we actually incorporated, we were starting with the patriot act but we didn't quite get what we needed in the patriot act, get everything lined up, but then the follow-through on the homeland security act, you look on the first page, in section 891, you'll see a lot of stuff in there about the federal government relies on state and local personnel to protect against terrorist attack, and it acknowledges the fact that information sharing is crucial, and it sets up a lawful framework, you know, with specifics like that the government has to, you know, grant clearances, the government
needs to be sensitive of declassification of information where appropriate. create a framework, so we saw that as a problem and we didn't win. as we were dealing with stuff in realtime, we actually, i assigned lawyers in the nypd legal bureau and josh was our government liaison. it was very convenient that's how joosh and i had worked together previously in terms of getting legislation. and as we were dealing with this coming here on december 11th, we had a whole round of meetings with some of the top people in washington, who were involved in senators and congressmen who were involved in making this happen for us. now, that, you know, like to go back to the morning of 9/11, that was even remotely thinking of anything like this? no. but, you know, you saw what the problems were. you saw what the obstacles were. my job wasn't, and again another thing just in terms of how we
should think about these things, my job when i was thrown in to that wasn't to come back and to report problems to the mayor and to the police commissioner and to the hierarchy. my job was to figure out what they needed to know, and find a way to get it to them. and as i was doing that, and dealing with obstacles, i also started thinking, well what can we do among other things legislatively to deal with that. but not say, you know, sfiems when we talk about legislation as lawyers we talk about legislation in a way to get out of stuff. well, boss, i really can't do that. and what we really need is legislation so let's work on the legislation. well that is certainly not what we would be doing on 9/11. you know, you work in stereo. you do what you can with what you have while you're there and to the extent you see a legislative solution you work on it in realtime. now obviously, to get federal law from concept to delivery to actual passed by congress and signed by the president inside of a year, on something this
significant, was quite unusual, but it was unusual times, and it shows what can be done. and i'm proud of the fact that as lawyer and as general counsel these are the kinds of things we were able to do. >> the single biggest mind-set -- >> i think so. >> in 20 seconds. the biggest obstacle, i still think it exists to a certain degree but much less so now was really mind-set. we were all reinventing the way we communicated with each other. we were meeting each other in some circumstances for the first time. there were -- when we were in this garage there were members of the new york office of the fbi essentially meeting other members of the fbi, you know, who worked on the intelligence side versus the criminal side. none of the infrastructure of communication, none of the mind-set existed. we were inventing that in the middle of the storm. and, i would say that was the single -- because that permeated everything we did.
we were all trying to catch up to where we needed to be. and today, the work that's being done, you know, at dhs and at fema, we're so much better at it. i think this generation will be okay. hopefully we built all of this in to the infrastructure and institutions for all time. but it was, you know, it was unfortunately a brave new world that required immediate governmental response, and it was really quite challenging with the circumstances. >> so all the questions in one second. i do want marie-claire and adrian just talk a little bit about some of the legal lessons learned both from sandy, and the ebola and what you took from that and then we'll open it up to questions. >> i will just say very briefly, in general, what we've learned since 9/11 through katrina to the present is, as lawyers, how important it is to have all of the legal stuff taken care of
ahead of time. the templates, the form documents. fema spends a lot of money, money goes out the door very quickly. we task other agencies to do things. we know we're going to do that in events. so now we have prescripted documents so that we can pull it off the shelf and we can execute it very quickly. >> put it in a safe place, though. >> safe place. multiple locations. the idea of keeping stuff in your trunk is not a bad one. in fact -- we instruct to have go kits and stuff in our trunk but sometimes even the backup fails. as lawyers it's just that readiness and preparedness function. i think that 9/11 really taught us that communications can be completely wiped out, our offices can be wiped out. our cars can be wiped out. and therefore we really need to have those templates, and, you know, documents that you know you're going to need in an event ready, set to go and in multiple ink. >> and i'll say ditto to that
and just add as far as the communications, yes, having the actual document templates, and other things handy is great but also it's developing advanced messaging. and i think that's one of the things that is somewhat of a cure to the chaos. and that messaging not just for the public, but for the attorneys. one of the other big lessons learned i think is that we need to -- we discover that there are other areas that we never considered in responding to emergencies. and that's personnel issues. so we've got -- we end up having issues with people who are essential, required to come to work, union issues, you know, there's a potential for abandonment of patients, abandonment of assignment. those types of things we have to come in contact with and then the whole medical records issues. one thing that i would recommend
for all counsel who are involved with this is to sit down and take some ics training so that you know exactly how things are being handled. you know lines of communication. you know chain of command. and you're ready to respond to the emergency on a legal basis, and of course, we do have our plan at my house i have -- i'm set up to kyle in to my office, and as is everyone in my specific administration, so that business continues as usual on, you know, we can dial in to our server, and from wherever we are. so it's just, you know, the issues will never -- will never have them all addressed. but, one thing we did think about was transmission of bodies. with communicable diseases, where there's no crematorium in the district. so those are the kinds of things
that we have to start thinking about, crossing state lines. >> ma'am? >> my name is alice, former u.s. department of state foreign service. and i live in harlem, in a six-building, 26 story each, development called esplanade garden. we are under the jurisdiction of hpd and i came here especially for this session to know, to relate to our corporate -- corporate counsel, what are their responsibilities to us if a disaster. now, we survived the storm. we had things like who is going to be responsible for my car damage. is it the lawyers? is it your insurance company? so i just had wanted to know
comments like i didn't know if this was a private lawyer's responsibility, or cities or government lawyers responsibility in case of emergency. is it only civic? >> i think in terms of the -- depends on the exact nature of the housing, but if it's under the jurisdiction of the housing preservation department, then in the first instance, their responsibility is certainly the emergency response to it. after you get past the first phase of emergency response, it becomes -- it can become more individualized. and the responsibility may become more. when you're talking about life safety. you're talking about, you know, criticality, for example, lack of heat, and it's the middle of winter, or you know, serious threat to the structure -- >> but is it my corporate counsel that we hire to be there to assess, you know, flexibility
and so forth, so is that the role we're talking about here? the role of the lawyer in emergency response? >> can be. i'm sure. >> all right. well thank you for that. and let's give a big round of applause to our excellent panel here. [ applause ] i thank you for participating. >> we'll come back in this room and have our panel on drones starting in just a few minutes, so don't miss that panel. thanks very much. tonight at 8:00 p.m. on c-span a senate armed services committee hearing on efforts to combat isis. president obama has authorized the deployment of up to 450 troops to iraq to train and assist the iraqi forces battling the islamic state, signaling a major shift of focus in the fight against the sunni militant
group. central command commander general roy austin and the chief policy official at the pentagon testified. and after that, at 10:00 p.m., u.n. ambassador samantha power talks to reporters at a christian science monitor breakfast about a variety of foreign policy issues. the c-span networks feature weekends full of politics, books, and american history. saturday morning, beginning at 9:30 on c-span, we're live from manchester for the new hampshire democratic party convention. speakers include five presidential candidates, former secretary of state hillary clinton, vermont senator bernie sanders, former governor of rhode island lincoln chafee, former maryland governor martin o'malley and harvard professor lawrence lessic and on sunday a conversation with jimmy and rosalynn carter on current events and the carter center's peace and health initiatives around the world. on book tv sunday afternoon at 24r50e clock supreme court justice stephen breyer talks
about his recent book. including the application of american law in international concepts and saturday night at 11:00 former vice president dick cheney and his daughter former deputy assistant secretary of state liz cheney on their book exceptional which looks at america's foreign policy and national security. on american history tv on c-span3, saturday starting at noon eastern, we're live from georgia, for a commemoration for the 13,000 union soldiers who died during the civil war at the confederate military prison camp at andersonville. speakers include sergeant major of the army daniel bailey and author and historian leslie gordon. we'll also take your questions before and after the ceremony by phone, facebook, and twitter. sunday afternoon at 4:00 on real america archival video of pope paul vi in 1965, and pop john paul ii in 1979, as they addressed the united nations. get our complete schedule at c-span.org. the bush foundation recently
hosted a graduation ceremony for the inaugural class of presidential scholars. a program created by the bill clinton, lbj, george w. bush and george h.w. bush presidential centers. the ceremony began with a conversation on entrepreneurship, and the american dream, featuring "shark tank" investor mark cuban. [ applause ] >> thank you very much. now, since we're in dallas, we thought it was only appropriate to start the program with two mavericks. one of them danced with the stars. and one of them went to the big dance with president bush. kevin sullivan got his start in communications in the sports world with the dallas mavericks. the lessons he learned in the nba's western conference ultimately landed him in the
west wing, where he served as president bush's communications director from 2006 to 2009. today he draws on his experiences to advise leaders all across sectors on effective communication. and last month he released an ebook called breaking through, communications lessons from the locker room, the board room, and the oval office. our other panelist has no problem breaking through. especially when it comes to making his voice heard by the referees from his courtside seat. mark cuban, the owner of the mavericks, is one of america's most successful entrepreneurs. beginning at the age of 12 by selling garbage bags door to door, along the way, he learned a lot about the kind of perseverance it takes to divide the ups and downs that any leader must navigate.
and finally, i think this is an appropriate setting to share that in just two weeks mark will be adding another job title to his long resume. president of the united states. with his acting role in shark ma nado 3. so mark. so mark, if you need some tips, there are a couple of very distinguished gentlemen here who would be willing to share some advice. please welcome kevin sullivan and mark cuban. [ applause >> well, everybody, that was a great -- a great introduction from secretary shalala. but just to show you how far mark really has come. take a look at this photo from his early days at dallas. what was that about 1983 or '83?
at that moment mark getting involved with personal computers for the first time. you see the american dream taking hold right there. about ready -- >> you see the thing in the back that says poverty sucks. >> so, you're a guy who is quoted as saying it's in the doing, not the dreaming. what is the state of the american dream today? >> the american dream is alive and well? does anybody here watch "shark tank"? [ applause ] it's a great show. and the fascinating thing about the show on friday nights is that it's the number one show watched by families together across all of television. literally used to be people wanted to come up and talk to me about basketball. now i have 8, 10, 20, 80-year-olds telling me about their ideas. and telling me about their companies. you know it's the new age lemonade stand and i don't think there's any question that with american ingenuity, the education, the type of people we have here, that this is just --
the best is yet to come. i think some of us get the sense that we're down, or it's so far from the truth. i'm seeing more and more amazing businesses, more and more amazing ideas every single day. i couldn't be more excited about the american dream. >> you have to go to silicon valley or new york? >> no, heck no. i'll tell you this, hopefully there's no media or anybody i'm sure here, silicon valley is a lot like hollywood used to be. you know they're looking over your shoulder for the next big star, the next big deal in silicon valley. you come to dallas, you come to austin, and you get people who come to work. the university system here is amazing. whether it's utd, ut austin, smu, there are just so many amazing schools where we hire locally. i mean, it's less expensive, but they're just as smart and they're just as driven. and there's just as many businesses being created here. while i'm not here to say it's the next silicon valley i'm here
to say that texas is the most amazing state when it comes. not just development talent but to creating new companies. >> now the sports fans among us, and i know there's a bunch here know that he had kind of a tough night last night. >> so this week on "shark tank" -- >> without rehashing all the details of the andre jordan commitment -- >> oh, you had to say his name. >> from a leadership standpoint when you have a setback, when you have a tough day, what do you say to your people? >> the conversations we've had today that it's over. you know, there's nothing can you do about it. you think for a second is there anything i can change? you think for another second what have i learned so i can do it differently next time? and then you move forward. and say, what are our options. you know, i'm a big believer you have to reearn your business every single day. you have to look to see whether or not you need to reinvent your
business every day because there's some 12-year-old, 8-year-old going to u.t., smu, all these great things i just talked about, and they're out there trying to kick your butt. and if i'm going to stay ahead, whether it's the mba or any companies i have to keep on moving forward. that's the way it is with the mavericks. you know, we have this big, tall german who's pretty good. he's still around. and we signed with matthew. so i think, you know, we've been fortunate to this point in my 15 years there and i think we've got great leadership, a great team and we're going to keep on moving forward. >> presidents make a lot of decisions, a lot of tough decisions, and of course our scholars have had the privilege of going to this the clinton library, for example, and studying toughdy significances president clinton made, studied the landmark welfare reform legislation, you know, there were people among your own advisers, president clinton, that didn't think maybe you should go the way you were going or your party. president bush saying a lot of tough decisions, i had the privilege of witnessing up close and personal.
often with utter disregard for his personal popularity. did what was based on his principles, that he brought from here in texas to d.c. how do you handle those really, really tough decisions? especially if you're getting conflicting kinds of advice? >> i try to be very self-aware. i try to know what i'm good at and what i'm bad at. i try to have smart people around me all the time. and i cross my fingers. you know. there's just some decisions you have to trust yourself. preparation is everything. people always say you're such a huge risk taker. i never take risk. any business i've ever started i always felt like i've done my homework. i've done the preparation. this isn't a risk. so you know, fortunately i've never been in the same circumstances that our two presidents -- i couldn't even imagine the stress. but in my little world, i just fry to be prepared, have great people around me, and you know,
be prepared, maybe the best decision i can, and hope for the best. >> the preparation as a way to manage the risk, what kind of things do you do to be prepared? i read. i read everything i can get my hand on. i talk with as many smart people as i can. someone once said you have to test your hold card. a lot of times we think we know something and sometimes success can be your worst enemy because you think you're smarter than you are. and so, you know, even though i feel confident about something, i feel good about something, i'm always like, okay am i sure that's an ace or did that change to a jack? so i want to talk to smart people always. >> in terms of your team of advisers, i know you're not a big hierarchy guy. more like a flat structure. would that be a recommendation to make for scholars as they go forth? >> everybody's different. in today's day and age there's so many communication mediums that you've got to figure out, "a," as a leader what your vision is. "b," how you can take those people around you and put them in a position to succeed.
and "c," really understand how each of them needs to be communicated with. because it's not all one size fits all. we're so used to seeing everybody, you know, not just millennials but everybody with their head down in their phone. i tend to try to do everything via e-mail as much as i can. send me a weekly update, bad news first. when i get that bad news that's when i have to reach out and go face-to-face, and be there to help people. but, you've always got to be in a position where it's not about you, it's about putting people in a position to achieve your goals, because if you help them, and have a vision for them of how to be successful, then that's going to just go with the organization. and when that point comes, if it doesn't, where you go your separate ways, there's mutual respect. and that ends up being a contact or somebody looking for you to network with. >> we have a question from one of our scholars. terry, the vp of convoy of hope, which is all about empowering women. she's got a great project to
empower women with basic business skills. but terry asks for your advice on better partnering with the private sector, as somebody who is in that private world. >> i mean it's a numbers game. there's no business small or large, but wasn't heard from a social enterprise and doesn't have its own social conscience. and so you're not going to be in a situation where you're the only person knocking on that door. or picking up the phone and talking to them or sending them an e-mail. and so you have to recognize that it truly is a numbers game and every no gets you closer to a question. but there will come a time just when you think oh, my goodness, they're going to say no, bam, that's when they say yes. whether it's women's issues, no matter what it is, look if it were easy it would already be done. it's not supposed to be easy. it's supposed to be hard. there isn't a template that everybody follows for success. you have to put in the energy to be prepared, and if you really care about what you're trying to
accomplish, it's not work. you know, do you dream about it? it's right for you. you know, if you wake up, and you're taking notes about your business because that's what you were thinking about, it's right for you. if you had that much commitment and conviction, who cares if it's one more door you have to call on, who cares if there's one more company you have to speak to. that's what it takes. >> so what are the biggest impediments today and obstacles that you could run into for either starting or growing a business? >> yourself. you know, companies don't fail for lack of money, 99% of the time. they fail for lack of brains and effort. the one thing in business that you can control, i say this to athletes as well, the one thing in business that you can control, your efforts. that's the one thing no one can ever take away from you. and that you can control. and so, that is always, you know, that's the key. and if you learn, and you're
always learning, always looking to improve and always looking to reearn your business and you're putting in the effort, you got a shot and you can be successful. >> you had another kind of famous mark cuban "shark tank" contest a contestant scottie vest was the name of the company. he had a patent and was basically trying to license a patent. why don't you tell that story? because that pushed your buttons pretty good. >> yeah. so there was a gentleman who came on the show and he had a coat, an outdoors coat, and his secret sauce was he had a lot of pockets. but in his pockets he had a patent, so that if you ran a wire up your sleeve using head phones, and connected them to something to listen, that's what he had patented. and i was like, how do you patent that? and no lie, when i was a kid growing up in pittsburgh i would listen to the pittsburgh pirates and i would have a transistor
radio that i would hide from my teacher and listen to the pirates when they were in the playoffs, i'd run one of those old school head phone things that had a wire and run it up my shirt and put it in my ear and lean this way so the teacher wouldn't see me. and i'm like how the heck do you patent that? and so i went off on him. and it created this big uproar, and let to me funding a chair called the electronic freedom foundation eff, the mark cuban chair to eliminate stupid patents. i gave them money, they're like we can't name it that. people are going to think i'm crazy. i said that's exactly the point. and there's so many patents. to me that's an inhibitor to progress. i'm a clean room fan. if you go back to the '80s of computers when there was compaq and ibm and if you did it in the clean room and independently created it then you could run with it and create your company. and that led in a big way to the start of the internet and the computer boom. but now it's a race to the
patent office to try to get -- i literally tell another quick story. back in 2006, i have a moving distribution company called magnolia, and a theater company called landmark. magnolia here in town. and so we decided we needed to change things up so we wanted to put movies on tv, on dvd, and online before they're in theaters. just natural course of business. we got sued because somebody patented that after reading what i had done, they created a patent, and literally referenced what i was doing in the patent, and then turned around and sued me for it. so i gave a little bit more money to that foundation. i think there's things we need to do because it does inhibit progress. >> another scholar question. shelly asks and she's not a slacker like most of the scholars, project manager at
cherry logic corporation software for nonprofits. but she's also, her project is teaching teenage girls in the gambia how to start photography businesses so they can earn money to stay in schools. >> oh, wow. very cool. >> she asks on "shark tank" you made your roi when making a decision, but how do you measure the social good or the ways an idea would help a community when deciding on on idea. >> with roh, you turn on your heart. you know, what else is there? you know, it's not easy to get people to believe, you know. but, you're not there to -- there's no i, it's really about heart. so thank you. it's nothing special. you know, i don't know what else i can say about it. >> we saw a product was made personal, how it could specifically help you and i think that that's the roh, is making it personal.
another question from a scholar, ceo of uplift education and charter school network here in dallas-ft. worth whose project is developing scholarships for north texas urban principals. >> cool. >> very cool. how do you find the time as busy as you are, just the mental space to think. you're a big idea guy. >> there's not a lot of mental space there so it rolls over very quickly. i don't know. i just try to -- i find things, you know, everything is a progression. you know, i forget the exact steve jobs quote, you know, where everything is a remix. that's what it was, right? and so the more you consider, the more you learn, the more you're open to learning, the more ideas you have, and to me, i'll put it a different way. the most -- and i said this to dirk and other mavericks players, the most competitive sport there is is business. and i'll add nonprofits as well.
it's incredibly competitive because you're competing 24 by 7 by 365 by forever. and there's always someone trying to kick your butt. and i am so competitive. i love the competition of it. you know my basketball game isn't so good anymore. unless you ask me then i'll tell you otherwise. but, yeah, it's just that the business is a sport. running a nonprofit in a lot of respects is a sport and it's nonstop. so that's what gets me excited. that's what keeps me going. that's why i love to continue to learn. >> i hear you saying in a radio interview not that long ago that your biggest fear was that your kids would grow up to be jerks. >> yeah. my wife was right here and that's like, you know -- >> there's no chance that that's going to happen with tiffany at the helm. >> i know. but there's this other guy at the house. >> what did you mean by that? and talk about how you manage. >> we try to be as normal as possible. you know, yes we have help but we don't have butlers. we drive our kids to school. you know, we put our kids to
bed, you know, when there's a mavs game, we have help during the day but at night we try to be by ourselves as much as possible and we try to just, just make our kids appreciate. it's -- it's hard to explain, but i want them, i want them to have a little bit of struggle but not too much. but i want them to learn. i want them to appreciate. i don't want them to feel entitled. so, tiff and i try to do as best we can to always make them feel appreciative of everything around them. some of you got to meet jakey, and, you know, hopefully he came across as somebody who is going to grow up with be that way. so, yeah. >> you read three hours a day. every day give or take? >> you can ask tiff, get off there. what are you doing? >> you read on your tablet? >> everything from my phone, tablet, newspapers, so i get the financial "times," "new york times," "wall street journal,"
dallas morning news delivered. i could read them online, but "a," i feel sorry for newspapers. and "b," -- and "b" you just want something different, you don't want to always be staring at a screen. but yeah, and i don't get to read books as much as i'd like to so it's more content driven, online relative to all the different topics i'm interested in. >> will simpson, who is with the mississippi department of human services, and his project is teaching critical life skills to aging-out foster kids. so another great, very impressive ambitious project. he said what should the scholars be reading? >> oh, my goodness. i mean that's not a fair question. read what you love. read what gets you excited. there are no business books that just, that's it. that's all you need to know. there's no one class. there's no one thing that you can do that's just a shortcut. i was talking to him earlier.
i mean, experience is literally the best teacher. but as you dip your toes or as -- as you move forward with your endeavors, and your challenges, you recognize the things that are going to be a little bit more difficult. when i run into those difficulties, that's when the antennas go up, excuse me, that's where i go out and say, okay, what can i read. some people are more about what will my mentor tell me. i'm more, okay i need to be able to consume it. i need to be able to, you know, really internalize it and move forward. and so, in terms of what to read, whenever you run in to a roadblock or whatever you see related to your vision, i love to read biographies, people who have done things before like our president here, there's just so much that you can learn. i'll put it another way, i still walk through, even though there's not a lot of magazines left, i'll walk through bookstores, look for a magazine. if i find one idea, one thought it's worth the five or ten dollars. if i find one book with one idea it's worth the $20.
you never know when that next idea that just the light bulb goes on so you've got to keep that mind open and look to find it. >> one idea that you've had in the last year or so, a couple years is cyber desks. >> uh-huh. >> for those of you who don't know and i recommend it, it's an app, and you can text, and your text disappears on a 24-second shot clock. now i know we all know some people, especially in washington, who could benefit from disappearing social media content. but talk about the way we live our lives so publicly now. >> two points there. one, with social media now, when we get on social media we think, okay our friends, our family. but then it kind of has spread, right. it gets bigger. and our networks expand. you get to a point, then, all of a sudden where your network, your social media network says more about you than you realize, and it may say things about you that you don't realize. you know, if you go back and look at your facebook's friends
of friends. this day and age unfortunately people hold you accountable for that. and so, i always make sure i go back and there's an app called expire e.p.i.r.e. that allows me to go back and delete all my tweets. for no good reason. it's like fashion, right? people don't need to see what you wrote two years ago. there's just another point. and then what cyber does, when you think about messaging in this day and age, the minute you hit send on a text, on an e-mail, i-message, whatever it may be, the minute you hit send you don't own it anymore. and if you're a visible person, a responsible, someone who has a lot of responsibilities, there's a good chance that the person you're sending it to is keeping it. now think about the consequences. you don't own it. they own it. but you still have responsibility for it. it's scary. over the course of time like
fashion many of us have thousands of texts that we've sent that might have seemed like the coolest, no problem at all, it's not like the old seinfeld episode oh, shmoopy you know, just old, old acquaintances, old business things. i mean, while sony owns the show "shark tank" and so while the sony hack was going on, i made sure my negotiations for my contract were done on cyber dust not knowing that the attack was going on. everything else came out, people lost their jobs. every single employee of sony was frantic and scared to wit, but we were safe. and so, cyberdust in the app store and if you want to reach me my user name is m cuban. but i'm not pitching anything. >> always telling. >> always telling. >> always telling. >> he's got a roomful of media here, as well. >> uh-oh.
>> and so you talked about social media. you like to conduct interviews when you can via e-mail. >> yes, sir. >> why is that? >> you know, reporters, there's reporters and there's opinions, right? opinions, they are who they are. but in reporting, i learned early on that what you say in an e-mail may not be the full transcript may not be used. and you know, that's their job to try to create a story. and so having a full e-mail transcript of any interview i've done gives -- has given me the chance to post on my blog the real story. now, i try to do more of this via cyber dust so it's like cyber dust is like a face-to-face conversation so it's a digital version of that. but if it's going to be a longer interview i'll use e-mail knowing on my blog i have a way to post it to protect myself because you just don't know how media is going to take anything that you tell them. >> so it's your way of controlling. >> yeah and particularly in
social endeavors. like all it takes is one misstep, or one misstatement of an interview, and you're toast. you know, if all you did was sit down and yeah they have a tape of it, wow, this is what i thought you meant. it's not that e-mail can't have nuance, but at least you have the ability to have all that context. >> what advice do you have for our scholars when you're asked by younger people in their organizations to mentor them? what's the best thing you can tell a young person? >> be honest about your time. you know, it just sounds so good toish a mentor and have a mentor. you know. i was never a big mentor person. i was more like, get my hands dirty. but you know, you can't -- it's hard to mentor 20 people or 30 people. be honest. and as a young person looking for a mentor, realize they don't live their lives to mentor you. that, it's a resource that is very, very valuable, and make sure that it's a resource of
last resort. and then look, there's also friendships and relationships that go with it that are amazing. but i think you have to really, really understand as a mentor what the expectations are, the mentee and vice versa. >> secretary spellings and i attended an event at microsoft a few years ago. if you ever want to work for permanently but bill gates was asked a question about his schedule. how do you control your schedule? and he said he had steve ballmer check it and cross check it and not commit things so far out as if you're not going to be busy then. what advice do you have about the way you commit your time, and build your schedule? >> i have somebody who runs my life. who does my schedule. but i'm the same way. i don't commit so far in advance simply because i still think the best is yet to come. you know, i'm still excited about all the opportunities that are in front of me. and so i don't want to preclude myself from something. and like a lot of people here,
you know, we get asked to speak every minute of every day. i just, you know, like i said i'm such a strong believer in the american dream. i'm such a strong believer that today is the youngest you'll ever be. you have to live like it. and i'm such a strong believer that the best is yet to come for me. and if that's the case -- and my children. if that's the case, then i'm not going to lock anything in. you know, my schedule is tbd. and hopefully will be for a long time. >> 30 seconds. if you thought the last question was tough, many of our scholars ask what is the next big thing? >> the next big thing is a big center for the mavs. no. i would say personalized medicine. our bodies basically are equations. as computers get faster and faster we begin to understand more about them and understand more variables. my son jake who is 5, maybe not when he's 25, maybe it will be
when he has kids, but the concept of walking into a drugstore and buying over-the-counter medicine that has a warning that says you might be the one unlucky schmuck that dies from this will seem barbaric. everything that we take for our grand kids, their kids, will be personalized. you'll take -- there's a company, you take one little tweak of blood and do a complete analysis in seconds. and so as we learn more and more about this wondrous body that we have and all the nuances, all the variables that are in it, the proteins, everything, we'll be able to more certainly determine what it takes to cure it. that's going to create a whole new set of questions. you know. that are bigger than me. but, yeah, personalized medicine is definitely something that's going to change the world. and all these discussions we have about the cost of medicine, you know, and everybody trying to predict ten years out. they're wrong. so -- and people like you out there that are going to invent even better ways.
so there's exciting things to come. >> thank you again, and the moody foundation. mark cuban. thank you. [ applause ] >> our road to the white house coverage of the presidential candidates continues saturday morning with a new hampshire democratic party convention live from manchester. speakers include five presidential candidates. former secretary of state hillary clinton. vermont senator bernie sanders. former governor of rhode island, lincoln chafee, former maryland governor martin o'malley, and harvard professor lawrence lessig, saturday at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span, c-span radio and c-span.org. c-span campaign 2016 taking you on the road to the white house. the pope's upcoming visit to the u.s. c-span has live coverage from washington. the first stop on the pope's tour. on wednesday, september 23rd, pope francis will visit the
white house starting with the welcoming ceremony on the south lawn followed by a meeting with president obama. then on thursday, september 24th, the pope makes history on capitol hill, becoming the first pontiff to address both the house of representatives, and the senate, during a joint meeting. follow all of c-span's live coverage of the pope's historic visit to washington. watch live on tv or online at c-span.org. >> and wednesday president obama and the first lady will officially welcome pope francis to the white house with a south lawn ceremony beginning at 8:45 a.m. eastern. later in the day at 4:00 p.m. pope francis will say mass outside the basilica of the national shrine in washington, d.c. about 25,000 people are expected to attend. then on thursday, at 10:00 a.m., he'll address a joint meeting of congress. the first time a pope has made such a speech. live coverage of his remarks at 10:00 a.m. eastern time on c-span.
more now from this conference on the internet of things with technology sector representatives and government officials talking about the use of smart technology, and its potential application and integration into government systems and services. this panel focuses on what the government's doing to address i.t. issues and security concerns. >> good morning, everybody. >> good morning. >> thank you. one person, thank you very much. well, good morning to you. welcome. my name is chris dorobek, i am the voice behind dorobek insiders, which is a blog -- there my plug is done. and we're on oh, look there i am. i think this is getting a little old. almost doesn't look like me. so, we're talking internet of things today. and look we're on c-span.
my third time on c-span. so, as they sent me a note late last night saying you were going to be on c-span and that david letterman line kept going through my head. we're the only thing on c-span right now so we'll see what happens. before we get to the real stuff, we have some little business items to go through. one is we want to thank our -- well thank you for being here. we want to thank our sponsors, bdna and software ap they're back at the back. if you are tweeting. we actually encourage that these days. i used to think people weren't paying attention now i assume you're tweeting. the #gltrain or if you're out on c-span and you have a question that you want to ask, tweet me and we'll try and incorporate your questions out there, as well. everyone always asks are the slides going to be available like this one?
we're happy to send you this slide if you want it. all the slides will be sent, maybe not this one but the real slides will be sent to you after using the e-mail that you use to register, so we will do that. oh, our vip program -- the government has a vip program, and if you attend any of our events, either through live events or webinars or i do a monthly live show, and if you do enough of them, you g geteventually, you get -- what? did somebody get some? oh, you want some? see people in front get t-shirts. not that's cowards in the back. eventually if you score enough points so our founder, and the head of everything steve back there will sit down and do like a personal coaching session, right? yes. that go in the plus category?
or if you don't score enough points. no, you sit down and mostly to have lunch. endlessly entertaining. so you can do that. and, folks today you will earn three cpe credits. anyone know what cpe stands for? no, of course you don't. we just know that cpe is government and we just follow the diagram. you'll earn three. you must take the online evaluation after the final speaker in order to receive credit. or there is a qr code, there it is, on the back. or there's also a link in the e-mail that was sent to you. so you have to take -- you have to save, and you have to shave, do the evaluation, three free cpe credits. that's all the boring stuff. czechoslovakhec check, check, check, check, let's get on to the real stuff. can anyone define internet of things for me? i'm going to test.
chris carlson was on my live show last week. chris, define the internet of things for me? >> well the internet of things -- >> we'll do it formally. that way good -- >> the internet of things is the connection of devices, and networks, it provides using internet protocols to enable -- it's massive numbers of things, provide massive numbers of data. so i keep thinking of it like a soda machine talking so you can now automatically know whether it itself can say i'm out of soda or something like that or my refrigerator can say your milk is really old it's no longer good. that kind of thing. does that kind of thing work? >> that's exactly -- those are perfect example. and it's everything from soda machines to medical devices to the thermostat on the wall, to
light sensors or road sensors, it goes in to connecting vehicles, the vehicle-to-vehicle communications. et cetera. so it expands and eventually touches everything. and then so you sort of have the extrapolation of the next level of the internet of things which the internet of everything. >> and then we get really scared. so we're going to talk about what this means for government specifically, because a lot of changes, connected roads. wouldn't it be awesome if you came up to a stop light and no one else was at the stop light you could automatically go through? all those kinds of things are the types of things we're going to start to talk about. we're going to start off talking about how internet of things is driving a new wave of government productivity. and we're all interested in that. coming up, right now, is daniel, vice president of information technology and innovation foundation. and director of the center for data innovation. and thrilled to have him here. let me give you your mic back, and thank you.
[ applause ] >> good morning, everyone it's a pleasure to be here. i want to than the organizers for putting this together. so, my name is daniel castro, i'm the director of the center for data innovation, which is a think tank here in washington, d.c., focused on how data innovation is driving improvements in quality of life, and helping grow the economy. and our focus is really on helping policymakers understand what all these changes are that are going on with technology right now, what changes are going on with data and how they can construct smart, public policies that can accelerate these changes so we can enjoy these benefits. i want to talk to you about how internet of things can help improve productivity in government and just generally what should we be thinking about the internet of things. how will this impact different organizations, how will this
impact us as individuals? so, starting with the definition here. ed one that i have is ordinary objects embedded and enhanced with internet connectivity. so of course some people think of why does my toaster need to be on the internet? you know, this is a really kind of classic example. i agree your toaster probably should not be on the internet. we talk about the internet and everything i don't think we're going to be talking about toasters. we'll move on to things that actually have an impact. this is important. this is really when we talk about the magnitude of this trend, i mean this is something that we're expecting will really kind of redefine society organizations just or individual lives. so right now, there's around 16 billion connected devices. we expect by 2020 there to be 40 billion connected devices. as an example we'll have 150 million internet connected cars. so this is really, you know, like we talked about. you have your phone and it's a smartphone. now it's just a phone again.
that's the same thing we're going to see with many types of devices and objects. but we're really seeing transformation here. first we're talking about the internet of things really transforming different industries. so a few examples here. start with factories. the idea of smart factories is really something that is redefining how manufacturing is being done. when you look at companies like toyota, or boeing, they want to know, you know, every single turn of a screw in their factory. they want to measure that. they want to be able to record that. and they want to automate this entire process. and this changes how these organizations work, for example in things like recalls. so when you look at recalls that happen right now, instead of having to recall 10,000 vehicles, they're able to figure out exactly what went wrong in the manufacturing process, and pinpoint a few of vehicles that
have to go out based on the serial numbers. based on when they were manufactured and just pull those back and make those repairs. so that really changes how organizations and companies approach manufacturing. on the left this is rio tinto one of the largest mining companies in the world. they created something they called the mine of the future. so what they've done is they've equipped all of their mines, all around the world with sensors. they've automated their tractors and other machinery so that all this data is constantly flowing back to their command center in perth, australia, where they are able to get a realtime view of how their company is actually working in realtime. and so, when they approach mining, which is a very physical, you know, traditionally very physical industry, it's really now all about data. they're transferring data across the world every day and this is how they really operate. this is how they define this. on the right i have a picture of
a smart plant it's very interesting. but in agriculture, seeing the agriculture if you look at companies like john deere, you know, they make tractors. they're making really smart vehicles right now. it's not somebody who is driving in the field. it's gps enabled tractors. they're very precisely made based on climate conditions, based on soil test measurements, based on predictions about what seed grows best and what location based on predictions about commodity markets all of this is a very data intensive process and it's using sensors in the field for precision agriculture. so they're able to figure out how much moisture is on the field right now. how much more do i need to add? they're able to figure out what seed should i be putting? how much fertilizer has been put down? again, very data driven. very sensor based. and this is really changing how these organizations work. but again if you go to agriculture conferences, they're talking about precision
agriculture now but they're recognizing that ten years from now again it's just going to be agriculture it's just the way they do business. and on the left here, this is actually an example of a device from verizon, it's a basically it can turn any car made after 1994 into a smart vehicle. you plug it in to the onboard diagnostic controller port on your car, which every car has, it's the one when you see a little check engine light, you take it to the dealer, they plug into to say what's actually wrong. you plug that in and you can do things like remotely start your car, roll down the windows, you know, do all the things remotely on a car that you didn't think you could do, but you actually can if you have internet connectivity. so with a simple device, and verizon service you just plug it in you have remote control of your car. so we're seeing, of course, lots of changes in the transportation industry as we have the introduction of connected
vehicles. both for these kind of remote control, and convenience factors, as well as for really improving safety. we're also talking about the internet of things really fundamentally transforming cities. so you look here, these are some of the devices that we already see on, you know, on the market today. on the top left, this is a big belly smart trash can. you've actually probably seen these around. they're quite common now. they're solar powered, they have trash compactors, in there. what's really interesting about them is they actually measure whether or not they're full, and then they let the sanitation crews know when it's time to pick them up. now this might not seem like much but because they have this really big capacity, on a campus like boston university, they're able to cut from about like 12 pickups per week to around two per week just with having these data and sensors. on the top right, this is a air quality egg.
so the idea is that right now when you go outside, you usually get air quality information about the city. if you're lucky you're getting it maybe about a neighborhood. the air quality egg is an air quality sensor that you can have in your home, in your office. the idea is you have microinformation about climate information and once we have 'tis we can really start doing new things. so for example if you bike to work, you can bike not only based on what the best traffic condition but where the best air quality is. so this is something that really kind of changes how people operate. on the bottom right, these are parking sensors that are being deployed in san francisco and other cities, that just give you realtime information about whether or not a parking spot is occupied. so when you look at traffic problems that cities have, you look at congestion, we look at emissions on the road, a lot of it is caused by people looking for parking spots. especially in urban areas finding parking spots can be very difficult. with this you can have realtime routing, to where is the closest
parking spot. eliminate the waste and reduce time on the road and reduce emissions. on the left, this is the bridge in south korea. this is one of the first smart bridges. now it's no longer one of the first ones. there's still this one is the first one but there's many others like this including one in maryland. one of the problems with bridges, we know in the united states we have this issue of kind of grumbling infrastructure. decaying infrastructure, and it costs a lot to repair it. and so, we continue to put it off. so what we have to do is do inspections. but there's not that many bridge inspectors but there's a lot of bridges, a lot of highway and it takes a lot of human time to figure out what's wrong. so we often miss problems before we can find them. so what you can do with these sensors, bridges like this have sensors equipped on them so they can detect vibrations and using these vibration detection you can figure out when a bridge is likely to fail and intervene
before that happens. so of course, you know, we saw in minnesota the collapse of the bridge there, recently i-10 outside los angeles. you know this is a huge problem in the united states. using connected devices like this can devices like this, we can get realtime information about which bridges, which highway infrastructure should be replaced sooner. oh, i pressed the button that everyone told me not to press. [ laughter ] >> most people are familiar with the ness thermostat. now they have a whole line of devices. they have along with that, for example, my favorite is they have a smoke alarm or smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector. it's not just a smoke detector that's connected to the internet you say why does that even matter, right? what it does is by working together with the rest of your
home system, if there's a fire detected in your home, for example, it knows, hey, maybe i should turn off the air conditioner because blowing air into a flame is a bad idea if you want to contain a fire. it's these kind of innovations that have big implications for housing and safety. on the bottom left, this is a device put out by belkin. this one is around detecting water usage in your home. so if you look on there, there's some pipes and there's this little device put on there and it detects vie operations in your home's pipes. when you use different -- if you use the sink in the bathroom versus the toilet versus the shower, all these have different vibration signals. just by listening to these vibrations, this device can measure all your water usage in the entire house. it can also tell you things like if you have a leak. if you have a vacation home, for
example, and you're away from it for most of the year, you might want to know is the water running? is there a problem in my home? this has big implications not only for you knowing that and having peace of mind but for insurance. when you look at what insurers are paying out, water damage is one of the top claims. if you can stop measuring this, you can start reducing risk and start changing how we work and how we live. and on the right you have the smart light bulb from phillips. can you control it from your smartphone. you can also use these lights, they're colorful, to signal things to you. part of it is about having feedback signals. maybe you have a light turn a different color when it's raining outside. or you have a light turn a different color based on some kind of signal that you have set
up so that it alerts you. and on the right we have amazon echo, which is the new product. this is about the ubiquitous connectivity that we're seeing in many homes. finally the interesting internet things reforming people, i want to highlight some interesting products. glow tops, it let's you know when you have to take your medicine. medication adherence is one of the biggest problems in medicine so fixing that is helpful. how many people in this room are wearing an activity tracker right now? already you're seeing this kind of transformation. on the right this is an activity tracker basically for infants. it can tell you, you know, if the infant first is moving, if they've rolled over, if they're on their back or they're on their stomach and you have that
kind of monitoring. you have the same thing for adults. there's an company called live lilively so people can stay in their homes longer. and this is all about tracking people's body signs, it's called bodygua bodyguardian. there was new research coming out for people with parkinson's. one of the problems they have is failure of gait. they could take a step and fall over. you don't know when this will happen and elderly that have this, they can fall. you can actually detect, they could detect with when this is about to happen or when people are starting to experience these symptoms and they can provide
them coaching. they can say take larger steps or provide an intervention when this actually happens and saying you're experiencing this challenge, i'm going to coach you through it. so it increases people's independence, addresses a major health condition and we're seeing lots of interesting innovations like this all the time. all right. so why does all this really matter? i think as government employees one of the thing you have to understand is not just what the technology out there but what are the trends in the space and how will this have an impact? i think there's two big things here. iot means better data and better data means better things. it's more accurate, it's more granular and it's more timely so you have this realtime information. you have to start thinking what can i do when i have this better data? and second, iot allows
innovation. think about the they wermostat. some of this can be controlled and some of it is artificial intelligence and this is really a powerful area of the internet. we're talking about automation that's based on machine learning, basis on artificial intelligence. this is the ness thermostat saying i can predict when people are here, i'm going to adjust automatically based on what i believe to be people's expectations. and the other thing that i think really applies here, it comes back to the maxim you can't manage what you can't measure. i do subscribe to if you can measure better, you can manage better. so i think the really interesting questions i want to spend the rest of the time talking about is how can government leverage the internet of things. thinking about new technology to solve old problems.
you need a strategic alignment between what technology can do and what the mission of the organization is. when you have this, you can see really great results. for example, in st. louis, missouri the public transportation system, they had a metro bus, they started using electronic sensors to look at oil pressure, temperature, speed and they basically were able to do prevent of maintenance to reduce down time, they were able to have service sooner and increase the reliability of their system. so fewer breakdowns, longer vehicles service life and they were able to save $5 million per year in minuaintenance costs. so substantial savings costs.
a lot of people are wearing activity trackers. maybe breaks should depend on how many breaks you do. sitting in a patrol car versus walking for eight hours is very different. maybe we can start rethinking how we do labor based on these type of technologies. and we have to start thinking how we can make smart the default. we're seeing this in some locations. california has decided by 2025 all water meters have to be smart. we can see really big impacts sometimes when we to do this. mumbai was able to cut water consumption by 50%. we need to be starting to think how can we make smart the default for other areas where we're investing in government, whether it's roads, building or just any kind of new program. we need to talk about building partnerships with the private sector. right now anyone in government
is familiar with bring your own device but when you have bring your own internet of things in the future, how will that work? when we talk about the big change, 40 billion devices, clearly all of this will not be owned by government. how can government leverage all of this technology they don't actually own. we need to be talking about building partnerships, leveraging data sources. this is an example of a company called place meter. they just signed up people to point a smartphone out a window and they would use and let iks to they've actually replaced the video now and are just using a sensor because they were concerned about privacy implications using video. but it's the same thing, can they measure volume in specific locations? the government should also be thinking about the data divide. this a new concept. we know about the digital
divide. we know about the idea that there are the haves and have notes when it comes to technology but there will also be a data divide in terms of communities, sometimes based on location, sometimes based on other types of demographic factors. how can government help ensure that the ent net of things is a benefit that can be shared by everyone? this right here is an example of shot spotter, a technology used to detect gunfire. right now in washington, d.c. there's about 300 sensors all around the city. this is put out by "the washington post." the dark areas is where there have been the most shots, which there's a surprisingly large number of gunfire in d.c. for a city without guns. but one of the interesting things here, in 2011 the white house was hit by gunfire. and it was discovered by a maid that there was this bullet actually in the white house. and the question was why didn't