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tv   Politics and Public Policy Today  CSPAN  October 5, 2015 2:00pm-4:01pm EDT

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that. and any sense that this is anything other than the potentially provocative action? >> at this point given the stakes and sensitivity around the russian military action in that region of the world, i think our concerns are well founded and these are concerns that we'll continue to discuss with turkey and our other nature toy nato allies. [ inaudible question ] >> well, again, the -- this is something we'll continue to discuss. angela. >> you've alluded to the concern of the opposition of lawmakers and a similar outcry from -- [ inaudible question ]
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>> when it comes to the auto industry and expanding u.s. auto exports, we have quite a strong case to make when it comes to the tpp. according to the agreement, we will -- this agreement will cut the 30% car tariff in malaysia and 70% car tariff in vietnam. those are two countries where you have a large and growing middle class. that makes them good markets for selling automobiles. the united states and the negotiators who represented our interests at the table are keenly aware of that and that's why there is the priority that was placed on trying to cut the tariff so is that u.s. automakers would have better access to those markets.
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and if you're going to be able to cut the 30% car tariff in malaysia and 70% in vietnam, you'll be able to sell more cars and that's ultimately the goal. it will expand economic opportunity for american businesses and create significant opportunity for american workers for making those cars. that's been the goal of this particular agreement and that's the case that we'll make to senators and members of congress that are representing states with significant manufacturing presents. and that's the case that we'll make, but ultimately individual members of congress will have to make up their own minds. >> looking forward on trade, i think while you were here talking, the european union trade minister talked optimistically about how tpp deals will hopefully turn u.s.'s attention to a -- >> they want to get in on the action, too, huh? >> yeah, is that something the
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president thinks he can get done during his time in office? >> i wouldn't make that prediction. obviously it took us more than five years to negotiate the tpp agreement. but it was worth the effort and investment. because if does ultimately allow u.s. goods and services to be sold in one of the most dynamic regions, economically dynamic economic regions of the world. and that's a good thing for american businesses and american middle class families. the negotiations around ttip aren't quite as advanced, but if there is an opportunity for us based on our consultations with friends in europe to reach an agreement that would have the same kind of economic potential for american businesses and american worker, then we wouldn't hesitate to pr sue it. but there is more work to be done on that before we'll reach completion. alexis, the last one. >> i just wanted to qualify --
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in what way would the president reevaluate the assignment, the task and advantages that the vice president would have if he seeks to run for the presidency? >> well, obviously the vice president if he were to makt decision to enter the race would be confronted with the challenge of balancing the responsibilities that come with running a national campaign with the responsibilities that come with serving as vice president of the united states. so i would basically at this point about how he would do that or if any changes would be necessary. but vice president biden is certainly somebody who has demonstrated a willingness to%n. but vice president biden is certainly somebody who has demonstrated a willingness to%b. but vice president biden is certainly somebody who has demonstrated a willingness to%c. but vice president biden is certainly somebody who has demonstrated a willingness to%b. but vice president biden is certainly somebody who has demonstrated a willingness to%n. but vice president biden is certainly somebody who has demonstrated a willingness to%o necessary. but vice president biden is certainly somebody who has demonstrated a willingness to% work overtime. but i wouldn't speculate what
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that would look like until the vice president has had an opportunity to make a decision. >> and when the president and vice president discussed begun legislation, one of the complications about background checks was a number of entities who were allowed to to information sharing if there was something that came across their radar.o information sharing if there was something that came across their radar. has the administration made any greater strides thinking through whether armed services may have come in contact with someone, a statement that they have come across, that could be allowed to share that with the nation for the background checks for more stringent -- >> we can follow up with you on some of these details. i know many of the executive actions that the president announced in the aftermath of shootings in newtown were geared toward more effective information sharing. and so i can definitely follow up with you on the details of those proposals. thanks, every. s see you tomorrow.
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>> josh earnest with today's briefing. if you missed any of it, you can find it at cspan.org. one of the topics during the briefing, gun control which hillary clinton talked about at a town hall meeting earlier in new hampshire. here is a look. >> so many of the parents of these precious children who were murdered have taken the unimaginable grieve that they have been bearing and have tried to be the voices that we need to hear. and i want you to introduce yourself and maybe talk about what you and other parents are trying to do to get the changes that are necessary. >> thank you so much. my name is nicole hockley. i'm the managing director at
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sandy hook promised and also the mother of dillon who was six when he was killed at sandy hook elementary school. gun violence prevention was nowhere on my radar before losing my son and i wish it had been. and i wish i had done something long before, something that i felt could never hit my community, hit me. at part of sandy hook promise, we focus very much on gun safety legislation and the common sense practices that you're speaking of. so thank you so much for taking this on and speaking out. we also very much focus on what can we do to get ahead of the violence, get upstream of it and help identify and intervene, help people learn how to know the signs of someone who is at risk and get help before they even get to their state of picking up a weapon to hurt
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someone else. i think it's a comprehensive solution that is needed between gun access and responsibility as well as mental health and wellness and working together with all the other organizations and all the other people as well as yourself. i have absolute faith that we can deliver the solution and protect children across america. [ applause ] >> i think what you just heard really reinforces how nobody knows what might happen because we haven't done what we need to
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do to try to make any of us, but particularly our children safe. so that is what is behind the proposals that i'm making. they're not new. there is nothing, you know, unique about them other than the fact that i'm so determined we're going to do everything that we possibly can to get this done. >> you can watch that briefing at cspan.org. also a look at the house select committee on benghazi here, the hill reporting democrats on the committee have revealed portions of the transcript of previously secret testimony from a closed door briefing with a former top aide to hillary clinton sending a letter to the chair of the committee pictured here that included multiple quotes and snippets of conversation from a nine hour interview that was held with former state department official cheryl mills last month. the letter reads we believe it's time to begin releasing the transcripts of interviews
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conducted by the select committee in order to correct the records after numerous inaccurate republican leaks and we plan to begin this process by releasing the full transcripts by miss mills' interview. read more at the hills.com. >> as the supreme court starts the new term, c-span debuts its new series landmark cases, historic supreme court decisions. on the premiere, we take a look at the marbury versus madison case. itdelves into the heated battles. >> john marshall established the court as the interpreter of the constitution. and in the decision he wrote -- >> marlbury/madison is probably the most famous case. >> joining the discussion, a yale law school professor and
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author. exploring 12 historic supreme court rulings by revealing the life and times of the people who were the plaintiffs, lawyers and justices in these cases. it premieres live tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span3 and c-span radio. and for background on each case while you watch, order your copy of landmark cases companion book veil for $8.95 plus shipping at cspan.org/landmark cases. nasnas announced that there are signs of water on mars. they talked about the possibility of life on the red planet last week.
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science space and technology will come to order. without objection the chair is ordered to declare recesses of the committee at any time. welcome to today's hearing, astrobiology and the search for life beyond earth in the next decade. let me make a couple of announcements. one is to say we expect more members shortly but at least on the republican side, all of our members are in the republican conference that i left early in order to start on time here. but other members will be arriving shortly. and the same may be true of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle as well. we have a new member of the science space and technology committee and i would like to introduce him. he is darin lahood, the first member to my left whose father i served with in congress some years ago. he represents a district in illinois.
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he's a former state senate or serving as a state senator when he was elected to congress. before that he was both a state and federal prosecutor. so we welcome his many talents to the committee. he's going to be serving on two subcommittees, research and technology and oversight where he will be bringing all of the legal skills to bear. so we are pleased to have him join us today. and permanently on this committee. welcome, darin to you. i'm going to recognize myself for an opening statement and then i'll recognize the ranking member. edwin hubble once said equipped with his five senses man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science. there are few greater adventures than the search for life beyond earth. when the hubble telescope was launched in 1990, planets around other stars had not been discovered. the only planets we knew were those that orbited our sun.
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since 1995, however, the rate of discovery of the external solar systems has been remarkable. today we've found nearly 2,000 confirmed planets that orbit around other stars in our galaxy. of these 306 lie within the habitable zone so they orbit where water could exist. and 14 are almost the size of the earth. whether life exists beyond earth and how humans can detect it is a critical question. if definitive evidence of life is found, it may be the most significant scientific discovery in human history. the search for life in the universe is a priority of nasa and the u.s. scientific community. seeking habitable planets is an object of the national research council on astronomy and astrophysics.
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the united states pioneered the field of astrobiology and continues to lead the world in this type of research. nasa has explored the cosmos for life beyond earth and conducted scientific research. nasa's astrobiology program continues the scientific endeavors to improve our understanding of biology. just yesterday nasa announced it identified flowing water on mars. this past april, nasa's chief scientist dr. ellen stofan made global headlines saying, quote, we're going to have strong indications of life beyond earth in the next decade. i'm glad that dr. stofan has joined us today. the question of whether life
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exists or existed on mars continues to capture the public imagination. nasa's recover made several scientific discoveries relevant to the search for life on mars. it detected other organic molecules and drill samples from a mud stone that once sat at the bottom of a lake. and jupiter's moon shows strong evidence of liquid water under its surface. nasa selected nine science instruments for a future mission to jupiter's moon. one from the university of texas in austin. these instruments will help scientists investigate the chemical makeup of europa's environment. last july, scientists confirmed this discovery of kepler-452b
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the first near earth size planet the habitable zone around a sunlike star. this discovery marks another milestone in the journey to find another earth. the transiting exoplanet survey satellite which will launch in 2017 and the telescope in 2018 will help scientists discover more planets with potential bio signatures in their atmospheres. around the world a relatively small number of astronomers monster radio emissions throughout the universe. they try to filter out the cosmic noise and interference to find anomalies that could mean life. this motivates students to study math, science, engineering and computer science. a few months ago astronomers confirmed that tom wagg, a 15-year-old student discovered
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an exoplanet which orbits a star 1,000 light years away. it is in our human nature to seek out the unknown and discover the universe around us. the stars compel us to look upward and lead us from this world to another. many americans often gaze into the beauty of the night sky in awe. some may wonder if there is life beyond our pale blue dot. i thank our witnesses and look forward to hearing their testimony today particularly about recent developments in the field of astrobiology and the search for life. and now i will recognize the gentlewoman from texas, ms. johnson, the ranking member for her opening statement. >> thank you very much and good morning. let me welcome our distinguished panel of witnesses today. i do look forward to your testimony. i want to welcome mr. lahood to the committee and simply say that the first week of this month i visited the curiosity
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team in france and the excitement is beyond measure. administrator bolden stated that when we explore the solar system and the universe, we gain knowledge about the dynamics of the sun and the planetary system and whether we are alone. with respect to the question of whether we are alone, then search for life beyond earth is a topic this committee has devoted a lot of attention to over the past few years. i don't know if we plan on taking life up somewhere else, i don't know where our chairman wants to go but i'm interested in following him. the purpose of today's hearing is to get an update on that topic. it is my hope that our witnesses will also take some time to discuss how their research activities can be used to help
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foster excitement in our young people and spur them to pursue careers in science, technology, engineering and math. that's important because these young students are the future scientists and leaders who will be critical of our growth going forward. while it's exciting to search for intelligent life in the universe, i hope we don't neglect nurturing the intelligent life we have right here in our country. i want to recognize that this is a return visit by dr. lunine. one year ago he and governor mitch mcdaniels testified before the committee on the national research council's report entitled "pathways to exploration. a review of the future of human exploration."
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and that was completed pursuant to nasa authorization act of 2010. i highly recommend that our newer colleagues on the committee and the rest of the congress as a whole, for that matter, read this report as i found it to be objective in the endorsement of the goal of sending humans to mars and thoughtful in its recommendations for an exploration program to send human to the surface of mars. a central goal established by this committee and passed nasa authorization act of 2015. i want to thank our witnesses and i yield back. >> thank the ranking member for those nice comments. let me introduce our witnesses. our first witness is dr. ellen stofan, nasa's chief scientist. she serves as principle adviser to nasa administrator on the agency science programs and strategic planning and investments.
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this is dr. stofan's second term at nasa as she recently held a number of senior scientists positions at the jet propulsion laboratory. she is a recipient of the early career award. earned her bachelor's degree from william and mary and her master and doctoral degree from brown university. our second witness is dr. johnathan lunine, the director of the cornell center for astrophysics and planetary science at cornell university where he specializes in astrobiology. dr. lunine has extensive experience in the search for life on other planets. he worked on a mission that showed that one of saturn's moons may hold microbio life. dr. lunine received his bachelor's degree in physics and astronomy from the university of
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rochester and his masters and ph.d. in planetary science from the california institute of technology. our third witness is dr. jacob bean, the university of chicago. dr. bean also is the leader of the bean exoplanet group which uses telescopes to detect and characterize exoplanets. dr. bean's work has used the hubble telescopes to make breakthroughs in astrobiology. dr. bean also develops new instruments for exoplanet detection and characterization and helping to design the giant magellan telescope. our final witness today is dr. andrew siemion. dr. siemion is an astrophysicist at the university of california berkeley. dr. siemion's research interests
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include studies of time variable, astronomical instrumentation. dr. siemion received his ph.d. in astrophysics from the university of california at berkeley. we welcome you all. you're clearly experts in the field and dr. stofan, will you begin? >> thank you. i'm pleased to appear before the committee to discuss astrobiology and the search for life beyond earth. with future technology and instruments currently
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under development we'll explore the solar system and beyond and could indeed in perhaps as little as 10 to 20 years discover some form of life, past or present. our search is making amazing progress. when i was a ph.d. student, scientists suspected that planets might be out there. 20 years ago we found the first evidence. today, thanks to nasa's space missions and ground based telescope, we've identified 5,000 planets orbiting stars and we believe that the vast majority of stars in the universe have planets around them. in skrul one july was one one confirmed 452 b. on mars, a series of mass emissions culminating in the recover which touch down nearly three years ago have allowed us to make fundamental discoveries.
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we know that mars was much like a water world much like earth with clouds and a water cycle and some running water on the surface. for hundreds of millions of years, half of mars had an ocean, possibly a mile deep in portions. we live in a soggy solar system. for instance, jupiter lies outside the habitable zone and we would expect the water there to be frozen. yet we have evidence of liquid oceans on three moons of jupiter. and using the hubble telescope we've found signs of water in the atmospheres of planets around other stars. what lies ahead in the next decade? i'd like to describe some of the highlights. life as we know it requires water, liquid water that's been stable on a planet for a long time. that's why mars is our primary destination for the search for life. the mars 2020 rover mission will
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seek signs of ancient microbial life. if we find evidence of life, it will likely be fossilized. as a field geologist, i can tell you it's going to be hard to find. that's why i believe it will take human explorers who can move quickly and make decisions on their feet to really identify it and in doing so, inspire the next generation of explorers. our journey to mars involves the development of a commercial crew capability, the space launch system and orion to go low earth orbit. beyond mars the president's fy 2016 budget request supports the development of a new mission to the moon uropa. hubble has opened plumes of water at one of its poles. a mission here could analyze the
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water plumes to determine the composition of those oceans. beyond our solar system, there are countless other worlds that could harbor life. in 2017 nasa will launch the survey satellite to look for rocky planets near the habitable zones. we'll use the telescope to measure the atmosphere. the president's fy 2016 budget request supports the wide survey telescope with the capable of directly imaging planets around the stars. since earth remains for now the only instance of an inhabited planet, it also requires that we further develop or understanding of life on earth. we've learned that life is tough, and highly adaptable to local environmental conditions. we've discovered life in numerous extreme environments
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and extraordinary forms, from bacteria that consume chemicals that would be toxic to most lives. perhaps even more interesting is the possibility that life could exist in the absence of liquid water. that's why scientists are interested in exploring some of the more unusual places in our solar system and beyond, such as saturn's moon titan. ultimately, of course, the search for life is a cross-cutting theme in all of nasa's endeavors bringing together researchers. astrobiology is guided by a community constructed road map generated about every five years with the next road map slated for release later this year. in addition in april nasa
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announced the formation of an initiative dedicated for the search for life on planets out of our solar system. this is an interdisciplinary effort that connects top research teams and provides a sensitized approach. from research to our knowledge of where to go and what to look for to the capabilities of finding it both within our solar system and beyond, we are making great discoveries. thank you for the opportunity to testify today. >> thank you, dr. stofan. dr. lunine? >> thank you chairman smith, ranking member johnson and members of the community. thank you for the opportunity to present my views. these views are my own and the they come from 30 years of work in the field of planetary science at various institutions in the u.s. and abroad. one of the most important outcomes of the last two decades of solar system exploration is the identification of four bodies in our solar system that appear capable of harboring life.
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these bodies possess characteristics that make them the best leads. the first of these bodies is mars. in its first billion years, it had abundant liquid water protected by a much denser atmosphere than the tenuous shell we see today. during this time life might have begun, survived on the surface and then was extinguished or retreated underground as the atmosphere was lost. the second of these objects is jupiter's moon. it's a body the size of our own moon with a large saltwater ocean, twice the water that we have in our ocean. this is in contact with a rocky core and abundant sources of energy. we don't know whether organic molecules exist inside of this ocean but we strongly suspect they're there.
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equally important we don't know how far below the surface the ocean lies. knowing that will allow a strategy to be formulated for searching for life there. next slide is titan, a moon that's larger than the planet mercury and the only moon in our solar system to host a dense atmosphere of nitrogen and methane. it reveals methane clouds, rain gullies, river valleys. we cannot resist asking whether some biochemically novel form of life might have arisen in this exotic frigid environment. titan is a test for the outcome of life as a result of cosmic evolution. what the galapagos islands did for the theory of evolution by national selection, titan might do for exobiology. this small moon has a large plume of material emanating from
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a series of fractures in its south polar region. make a list of the requirements for terrestrial type life, chemical gradients, and we've found evidence of all of them. so how do we find the signs of life in these bodies? the evidence will not be entire living organisms. much more likely we'll detect signatures that life is at work or was at work in these environments. in contrast to nonbiological processes, biology is built from a limited selected set of molecules. and so if we can recognize patterns in the makeup of organic molecules, we have strong evidence of biology at work. in mars finding sources of methane and measuring the isotopes is one way to get to this question. another is to seek organic materials in the soil.
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and the mars 2020 rover will do the heavy lifting here. for jupiter's moon, the mission will provide the essential information needed to decide, among other things, whether organics and water are welling up through the cracks on the surface. doing this mission, doing it now is absolutely crucial to any general strategy for the search for life. for titan, the search should target one of the great methane seize by dropping a capsule capable of floating across the surface. a generalized search for patterns in molecular structures and abundances that indicate deviation is appropriate.
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and finally, this provides us with the most straightforward way of looking for life. nearly flying through the plume with modern instrumentation intended to detect the signatures of life is sufficient to do the search. the long flight times in tyhe outer solar system in particular dictate the planning for missions must begin now and must be pursued with vigor if they're to happen within the next two decades. it's remarkable that we've found four destinations in our own solar system where life might actually exist or have existed for quite some time in the past. and now is the time to actually go search for that life. thank you. >> my testimony today will be focused on the context of the search for life beyond earth. the main point i want to convey is that in an expanded
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exploration program with the flagship telescope as its center piece could answer one of the most fundamental questions, is there life outside of earth. planets outside of earth's solar system, this year marks the 20th anniversary of the first detection of an exoplanet. but progress in the field has been rapid in the intervening years. in particular, the launch of nasa's kepler telescope revolutionized the field. we're focused on finding earth-size planets orbiting their stars in the habitable zone. a handful of earth size habitable zone exoplanets have been found other the last few years. these discoveries grabbed the attention of the scientific community and the public because they suggest that planets may
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exist and we have it within our grasp to search for other life. the next step towards determining if there are any truly habitable planets is to study the atmospheres using this technique. planetary atmospheres control the habitability of a planet because they're reservoirs and regulators. furthermore planetary atmospheres may be a marker itself. astronomers have made progress revealing the nature of the atmospheres of hot using the hubble and spitzer space telescopes. these investigations have yielded constraints on the abundances of key chemical species were the determinations of temperature maps. astronomers eagerly await the
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launch of the james telescope in 2018. the webb telescope will dramatically extend the reach. it may have the capability to determine the major molecules and measure the temperatures of the exoplanet atmosphere. however webb will be hard pressed to detect evidence of life, only made possible with fortuitous planets and large amounts of bio signature gases on the planets itself. the astrophysics community is currently ramping up for the survey that will prioritize large space missions to follow the webb telescope. community is currently developing concepts for telescopes in preparation for the selection process.
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the top priority space telescope from the previous survey will have capabilities that lay a foundation for a future life finder telescope. one of the goals is to obtain improved statistics. in addition, nasa is currently considering including an exoplanet spectrometer on the telescope. this would not have the capability of making measurements for earth like planets but would advance the technology. it's important to keep in mind that a future life finder mission cannot be a success in the absence of other projects. the need for knowledge is why i think that ultimately an expanded program would be the best way forward. although a flagship space telescope would be the crown jewel, it should be guided by the instruction of life. it would take all of us working together to act on the vision to
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see it through. but our ability to rise to this kind of challenge is what makes america exceptional. from the apollo program, voyager, hubble and mars programs, with the recent stunning success of the rise mission to pluto, our country leads the way in space exploration. the search for life beyond our planet represents the next great space exploration challenge that we continue this legacy. mr. chairman and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here as a witness and i would be happy to take questions. >> thank you, dr. bean. mr. siemion. >> thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
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searches for extraterrestrial intelligence seek to determine the distribution of advanced life in the universe through detecting the presence of technology, usually by searching for electromagnetic radiation from communication technology but also by searching for evidence of large scale energy usage. technology is thus used as a proxy for intelligence. if an advanced technology exists, so does the advanced life that created it. we know of no way to directly detect intelligent life. but if other intelligent life exists and possesses a technological capability similar to our own, we could detect the technology using the techniques of modern astronomy. large telescopes such as the one in west virginia are suburb facilities for a wide range of astronomy. improving mapping the gas in nearby galaxies and probing the earliest epics of the universe. these facilities are among the world's best of searching for the faint whispers of distant technologies.
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a variety of experiments are underway at the green bank telescope and the observatory. in a technique we called piggyback observing. several other telescopes are being used for radio study, including the private allen telescope in northern california, the low frequency array in europe and the murchison wide array in australia. many are taking advantage of the wealth of new information on our galaxy's exoplanet population now being revealed by spacecraft. in an exciting new project, a group base at the university of san diego are searching for pulse lasers. these experiments are funded by
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a combination of government and private sources including notable contributions from the john templeton foundation. ensuring that facilities like the green bank telescope and the observatories continue to exist as world class astronomical facilities is critical to their continued use. one of the most exciting prospects is the breakthrough listen initiative, a $100 million ten-year effort funded by the breakthrough prize foundation that will conduct the most sensitive, comprehensive search for advanced intelligent life on other world. i have an animation i would like to show you illustrating some of the components of breakthrough listen. here we see the milky way galaxy. hosting planets with liquid water on their surface.
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if intelligent life developed on some of these planets, the emissions from their technology would proceed at the speed of light out into the milky way. but for how long? life may arise, it may develop intelligence and finally a communicative technology. but the final stage may only last for a few thousand years. but the evidence of their technology, the bubble of their electromagnetic radiation will continue to propagate throughout the galaxy and could be detectable at the earth. with breakthrough listen, we'll conduct deep observations from one million of the stars of the earth. these observations will cover at least five times more of the radio spectrum than any previous experiment. we'll conduct these observations using the green bank telescope in west virginia as well as the parks radio telescope in australia.
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it is undoubtable that the next decade will be an exciting time for astrobiology. data provided by missions from the james webb space telescope virtually guarantee dramatic new insights, including identifying and characterizing some of the newest exoplanet to the earth. at the same time we'll continue to learn more about the development of life on earth and the potential for life elsewhere in our sewn solar system. if history is any guide, these discoveries will only heighten our imagination about the possibilities of advanced life elsewhere in the universe. thank you. >> thank you, dr. siemion. as you might guess, we have thousands of questions and we're somewhat limited in our time by five minutes. dr. stofan, i would like to address a couple of questions to you. one i'm astounded by the announcement by nasa that running water may be on the surface of mars.
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is that the case? when mars curiosity rover reported no evidence of water, i thought that was the end of it. but if we have water on the surface of mars, why do we not have any photographs of the water? >> indeed the new results that we just got show that the recurring slope, the features on the sides of the craters. we've been able to put the evidence together, including chemical observations to say okay that's really what's forming these things, which we're excited about. the problem is these features are transient. there's not a whole lot of water. so it's very hard to see with the resolution of spacecraft that we see. but we can certainly trace the chemical signatures. we also at the phoenix landing site were able to see the evidence of liquid water, including a little droplet on
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the spacecraft. so water is there on mars. it's not in huge abundance right near the surface but we know it's at the poles. >> when will we have evidence of liquid water, anytime soon? >> i'm afraid i can't answer exactly -- we feel that the evidence we showed yesterday is good evidence of liquid water. when it's flowing on the surface, it's very, very hard to detect. >> thank you. next question is where are we, in your opinion, most likely to detect any kind, any form of life, even if it's bacteria or microbes or whatever. it is going to be mars, jupiter's moon, an exoplanet, is it going to be some technological communication? where do the best prospects lie. >> i certainly believe it's going to be mars. you heard from me and dr. lunine. we're optimistic about the 2020 rover. that's not the most exciting in a lot of people's terms to find fossilized microbes, but i'm
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really optimistic. i think it's going to take humans on the surface of mars to get at the definitive evidence. >> dr. lunine, how would you rank the -- you mentioned four locations were mars, jupiter's moons, titan, one of saturn's moons. was that in order of likelihood or do you have a preference or a prediction as to where we might most likely find evidence of some form of life? >> well, that was actually in order moving outward from the sun. there was no implied order. you know, the question is whether in any environment that can support life does life actually begin. does it form. and i don't know the answer to that and no one else does.
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and that's why in my view we need to look at all of these bodies where there is very strong evidence, compelling evidence of what's called a habitable environment, an environment where life could actually be sustained. >> when we find out what the thickness of the ice is on jupiter's moon, that's the time to send a probe there? >> yes. there's a lot of groundwork that needs to be done. we don't know if there are organic molecules. the mission will tell us whether there are fresh organics in the cracks. if there are, that's the place to go. >> dr. bean, when do you think we'll have the capability of detecting biosignatures in the atmospheres of exoplanets. >> i think the james telescope planned to launch in 2018 is the first chance to do that. if we get lucky, we may be able to search for -- >> with james webb? >> yes. >> not before?
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>> definitely not before. >> what do you think the odds are of finding a biosignature in the next ten years, likely or unlikely?
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test test there's advantages an disadvantages to both. do you have a preference or not and what are the advantages and disadvantages js i think you're absolutely right that historically they've concentrate odden the radio portion. but as we've developed technology on earth, it's allowed us to communicate to the wave lengths. the truth is we don't know what part of the electromagnetic system that we might receive some evidence of a technological situation elsewhere. it behooves us to search as much of the spectrum as we can. that's why we focus on the radio and the optical. >> my time h we all would agree it might be most interesting news in say the last hundred years. 20% of something is not insignificant. appreciate your comments. the general woman from texas is
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recognized for her questions and let me say in going back to her opening statement, it's not often following the chairman. i just wanted to. >> if you go long. >> thank you very much. today we are speaking primarily about about biology. they will return to these phases and carrie out scientifically.
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has nasa been in discussion with you on the results of the report and if so, what's the status and how can this be helpful? >> well, the nasa advisory committee did actually have a meeting on the subject of our report and one of our committee members was there and had a dialogue with the committee and also spokes for nasa. so i think there's some dialogue and thinking going on. i think it has a lot to contribute to the question of how and when humans will move beyond. i look forward to that dialogue. >> in your view, what if any of the issues does this committee
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and the congress need to address? >> in the context of that report? >> yes. >> to quote from that report we were concerned about the question of flight rates in the near term and the question of how the destinations might be chos chosen. i think those are the key relatives. >> 30 years from now elementary school children will be leading the scientific exploration of the solar system and beyond. our knowledge of other bodies near and far will have changed, visited mars and the two of us here in this committee won't be around. b -- may have been detected by then. as we think about where we are today and where we might be 30 years from now, is there anything congress should be considering to insure that
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today's school children are well equipped to lead a new era that could include knowledge of life beyond earth? >> i'm a strong believer of that nasa plays an important role in inspiring the next generation. everything we do at nasa is about education. every time we launch a rocket or do something like encounter pluto, we are inspiring the next generation to want to explore and question why. i would like to see nasa stay on the steady course we like to have been with to continue to exploration. >> the spacecraft can probe
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the -- by sending radio signals through those scenes as it flies by titan. we're doing ocean exploration a billion miles away from the earth and that's only one example. >> to get back to the earlier question about putting a number on the chance of finding life, i want i want to emphasize scientific process is a step by step deliberate process.
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i think to the extent that can be highlighted and taken advantage of to encourage young people to enter careers into space. >> thank you very much. our time is expired. >> thank you, miss johnson. the chairman of the space subcommittee is recognized for his questions. >> yes, sir, thank you mr. chairman. welcome all you panelist. it's fascinating to hear your testimony. in my district, texas 36 astro materials cure ration center provides services for all materials that do not require planetary protection laboratories. this facility has apollo lunar examples to return.
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a lot of the older collections will require routine maintenance and upgrades. samples to be returned from mars pose greater challenges due to special planetary requirements. what steps is nasa taking. >> we have two different committees where we take these issues extremely seriously before the contamination of mars and the backward contamination when we return samples to earth.
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it's an amazing facility and fun to be there looking at the samples and meet rites we've returned from ant ark cramerica. we take the facility and move towards bringing samples back from mars. we work close with the community to understand what is needed and make sure we will eventually have a plan in place. >> thank you very much. this is directed to everyone. >> which portions are funded directly or indirectly by nasa? does anyone kno okay. >> we can certainly take that question for the record.
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six weeks ago i was at a research center where we were thinking about climate on extra solar planets and it's one of the reasons as i mentioned in my system this whole area is an amazing one and actually makes us think it will be hard to pull that number out. planetary science pulling from so many disciplines which is to me what makes this area of science in particular so incredibly exciting and fruitful. >> one of the most technological
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advancements, what advancements should be our highest priority to continue this? >> i'll take one crack at this. one in my area is to develop instrumentation that can detect the chemical finds of life and detect biological activity. the smaller the instruments, the easier it is to send them to the planet. >> from the standpoint studying the planets, that involves the construction of telescopes, rockets to put the telescopes into orbits and instrumentation to block to blinding glare and perhaps the space flight program to service the tell coescopes o
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construct them in orbit. >> thank you. >> i think in the search for extra trust and intelligence, the low hanging digital sign signaling process technology. processing the telescopes and developing receiver technology for radio telescopes that allows more facilities, tell me more about that. >> thank you, panelist. >> the gentleman from connecticut. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you rn, jonathan for hold today's fascinating hearing and thanks to all of you. i joined millions of america's sunday night watching the blood moon and a blue moon earlier this year and i have to tell you in a district like mine, school children are inspired and inspired by these developments.
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you spoke earlier about the need to have human exploration on mars and to understand and make those judgments. this idea that jonathan mentioned in the testimony because of the length of water, a time we knew water was stable
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on mars, that's why scientist the thing about surface water is saying this could be life on mars today, the idea that it's assessable to be studied by again astronauts and laboratories aren't on the surface of mars and again as a field geologist, somebody who likes to crackle the rocks, i have a strong bias it's going to take humans, laboratories a lot of work.
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>> i have a personal interest in discovering if this man mission is going to keep up with this 4th grade project from 15 years ago. whether it's an inhabitable environment, does life develop which is the opposite of where we start. it started with the search is there any life out there and now it seems like you're asking a different question. we see a lot of components we would think ought to lead to less. does it lead to life or not? one of the technological break throughs needing to support to answer that somewhat different question, it seems to me that's a different question than i would have thought about five years ago. >> it's a different question but it's a related question.
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we have no laboratory model for how life began on earth. one of the reasons for going out to environments in our solar system where the conditions for life are apparently there and possible is to see whether life actually began and to do the experiment in the field instead of the laboratory. the critical things we need for that are devices to analyze abundanc abundances. part of the problem is it's not clear what we want to look for in some swriermts. the ability to get out to these
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planets is critical. >> it's not enough money we have to do this research. with what we have we want to make sure it has the most impact and rely on your judgment. thank you all very much. >> this is fascinating like the chairman said we have a million questions. i'll ask like you, you'll have
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to have boots on the ground to finally answer the questions. so let's bring it a little closer to home. you referenced the asteroid, would your funding be well appropriate in a realistic term as to funding projects in that realm as opposed to something that may be a hundred years old as far as time and space travel are concerned. >> well, i certainly think this is a multieffort in the meantime
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continuing our exploration moving with the mission to go and explore. we need to do the technology research and synthetic biology is an amazing expansion at the time. it's all of the things that move us together and help us refine the scientific questions as we move forward.
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is there where the research can come under one big umbrella. >> in my mind going through the community whether it's through the process and the academies of the astrobiology web map is going out to the community. it's the voice of the scientific community. >> is there one voice at this point or is anybody at the top of the heap so to speak? >> in astrobiology i would argue
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nasa is guiding what we're doing. >> does nasa have any rules or regulations that would limit our hardest, this potential break through? i could see where with what we have available even now with some of the generic engineering that some of this stuff could turn out to be kind of bad st f stustuf stuff. ask there are some good study
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that have been done that show amino acids will survive the trip and bacteria as well. there may well have been extensive change of life and biological material through earth and mars.
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>> what happens when we discover intelligence? do we have a plan about what happens next? >> i'll just mention study at home, the program on pcs are still around. you're all welcome to down load it. it runs on cellular telephones now as well as home pcs. i think a lot of people have put thought into what go do when we discover intelligent life or any kind of life beyond the earth. i think there will be a range of action. my personal opinion the common reaction will be i told you so. i think many believe that the life is out there and maybe intelligent life and the more we learn about the planet population and water on mars and these kinds of thing i think reinforce with people the
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possibility but the truth is we really don't know for now and i think to see what the reaction will actually be will have to wait and see. >> protocols in place for when we get the break through what will we say back. you talk about titan and all the me that i know and all that. i understand that most elements only come from the explosion of stars so you'll get the carbon. are methane and ethane, can they develop? >> yes, it's a simple sor gan rancic molecule. it occurs in many environments in clouds and in comments. it's measured there. so these are evidencely sources of me that i know that are not from biology. it's simple to make in the laboratory, for example.
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carbon is abundant as one of the products. we think the titan has an enormous inventory not biological and the ethane produced by the system was produced by the ethane and that's something they confirmed by us by measuring the places in the atmosphere. it's a huge he poz tory. from those and other organic molecules, does some form of life occur on surface? that's the part we don't know. >> dr. i think this is for you.
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what we do know is life evolved rapidly and that's the factor that makes it optimistic there's life elsewhere in the solar system. >> are those gases being released through the fisher?
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>> that would be more appropriately addressed to dr. -- >> that's okay. i think it was my slide. >> those fishers have jets of gas and ice coming from them and they e mernl to make a large plume. we didn't know. once the plume was discovered, they were directed to fly through the plume multiple times. one of the important lessons we get from this is the flagship missions with large numbers of instruments are able to respond flexibly to new discoveries. once it was discovered they could use to same instruments to tell us what the plume was made
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of. >> thank you very much. >> i think it's something the scientific community struggles with. our signs that everybody agrees on. something that's self-replicating. the problem is, life here on earth, what we've learned, life with the boundary of what is life and what's not life is blurry. that's why it's going to be so challenging to go find life on other planets. life is a self-replicating system that seeks to minimize
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its local, maximize its order in the sense that chemically we use very small fraction of the possible compounds that can be produced from carbon and the fact that we're alive is because we can take in large amounts of nutrients and process them to make a small specific set of molecules that build our structure and control energy and analysis and information needed to build these other molecules and expel the rest. for me with my physics background, it's very high order, very low in a chemical system. >> the information we get will be very basic. we use a very earth centr rick point of view for life.
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i think many of us in the astrobiology community, life is something we'll know when we see it. hopefully, that's true but we're not sure. it's quiet possible the first life we encounter will be different than any kind of life we have on earth. >> thank you. the question for each of you. if you can pick commission, i want a mission that will do this, what particular type of mission would you choose? >> you know, i'm going to go
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with geologist on the surface of mars cracking the rocks looking for life. that's my big pay off mission. >> i would like to see a large telescope to take others orbiting nearby stars. something similar to the planet finder mission, the tpf which you may have heard about. i think the advantage of studying extra solar planets is
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we have a chance to do an experiment on how life arises on planets in a variety of environments. that's what i would like to see. >> i'm not sure what list i'm choosing from here but as a radio astronomer and somebody in study, i would be remiss not to suggest to put a radio telescope on the far side of the moon. that region of the moon is protected and allows us to observe at low frequencies. >> y'all make the choices really tough don't you. some think because we've been to the moon question shouldn't return to the moon. there's reasons going there for future transportation as a steppingstone to mars. i would like to ask each of you
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your opinion. >> looking at the terrain around the south pole of the moon to help us understand the or general of the moon and what that tells us about the origin and evolution of our own planet. we have lots of outstanding questions about the moon that the scientific community has articulated. >> the moon contains the gee logic record of the first billion years of the history of the earth. that record has been lost on the earth because the earth has been so active. that, for me, is the critical aspect of the scientific moochblt that's when life began and to understand what happened geologically, we can do no
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better than turn to the moon. >> i like to answer the question in terms of human space life. for me, if we can combine science, that's a powerful thing. >> i think i would agree. a man mission to the moon would be a wonderful steppingstone for future missions to mars. >> thank you all for your testimony. it's been wonderful. >> thank you. the gentleman from california is recognized for his questions. >> thank you, chairman. as a child growing up in
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southern california at the heart of the aero space industry in the 60s and 70s the space captivated us. we are natural explorers and we want to find those answers and i think it's important work that nasa's doing the work that our scientist are doing in fostering the imagination of the next generation. i think we need to do more of that, in fact. listening to some of your testimony as well as how you answer the questions, we don't know what life is going to look like. we don't know what we are going
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to discover. we don't know what frequencies we should be listening for. we do know something is out there. if we don't continue to push our imagination, if we don't to, we don't know how we're going to get to mars or send a human being to mars and bring them back but we do know if we challenge ourselves, we will discover that and always have.
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we deal with a changing atmosphere. those discoveries help us manage our own issues. explaining why it's important to search for life beyond our planet. if you were to explain this to the public in general, how might you put why this is such an important defr? >> i certainly mention the fact that ever since i think there's people looking up at the sky, we wonder are we alone?
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to me, you get a better learning about life in general by finding life on other planets. i like to tell school children when i go talk to them, oh my gosh, we have so much work to
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do. we have 5,000 planets we need you to go study. for humans on mars, you guys better grow up and get to work. we need help. >> this might be a philosophical answer so i apologize for violating the ground rule. for the last 500 years we've lived in a world view where the earth was not the center of the universe or the solar system. it's a planet in the solar system. the sun is not at the center of the galaxy, it's one. life and our intelligent life and ourselves at the moment know of no other form of life, intelligent life and the world view would say they're all over the place. it's crucial to test that. if that turns out not to be the case, that's going to shatter our world view.
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it tells how you work together as a country and society and the world. for me, i want to through the process, we find out a lot about ourselves. >> i may be a bit bias but i think life is the most interesting property of the universe. the idea that somehow in this largely mechanical universe we live in, we understand to great detail some sort of an organism came to be that could question its own existence that could
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wonder about the universe and where it came from. if we don't understand that, then we don't understand perhaps one of the most fundamental properties of the universe we live in. we must answer that question. >> thank you. >> do you think life does exist elsewhere? >> maybe.
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i'll quote steech. a universe in which intelligent life only exists in one place and a universe in which intelligent life exists in many places are very different places. >> thank you. we'll go now to the gentleman from california for his questions. >> thank you. thank you to our panelist. congratulations. i have to say it's refreshing to have a hearing about something so big. in washington it gets so frustrating. looks like we're focussed on small incremental things and people at home get quiet frustrated that seems to rule the day here. the work that you're doing is so important, so big and will inspire so many future scientists. congratulations. i had the opportunity to go with the chairman and a few others to
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ant ark cramerica. one of your colleagues joins us on that trip and he told us as we went through the drive ali, that area, he was excited to be on that trip and visit that area because it most closely resembled what we believe many of the parts of mars to be. this discovery is another step forward in that effort. as far as the water, do we believe it can support life.
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when r what we know about the earth is like this. it's so fundamental, we don't know. >> any other topics from the panelist on that question? >> well, just briefly, if i talk about the possibility of looking for exotic bio chemistries on titan, i better not say that life is impossible. so yes, ter rest ree yal and life as we know it would be sterilized by that solution. is there a form of life evolved to live in that? >> speaking of sterilizing, nasa has no plans to closely examine any of these places that contain water or could be has beenal places out of fear of contaminating them with earth's my skroebs. so sterilizing probes is
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expensive. do you think it's time to reexamine the approach? >> no, i think the scientific community not just in the united states but around the world because planetary protection is something governed by international policies and procedures, we want to make sure if we find life on mars we know we have found life that is martian life. we need to be extremely cautious as we move forward. i think the scientific community is going through a process saying right now, we don't think that's the place to run to and contaminate. let's take a measured scientific approach to how we might get at exploring those regions. obviously, when we send humans to mars, that's going to lead to much likely broader scale
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contamination. so i think it's important as we lead up to sending humans to mars, we try to keep them as press teen as we can. >> finally, 38 million californians are wondering, can we get that water to california? >> certainly, the california drought is something nasa is very concerned about. we've been using our satellites to do what we can to monitor with the state and we've seen the alarming reduction of water. we've been working on projects with farmers in california with pilot projects to reduce water usage by 30%. nasa is trying to help. >> thank you. >> the ranking number of the committee is recognized for her questions. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and thank you to the members. i was sort of curious. i don't know if mr. valuing
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captioner had a chance. we were speculating as to whether there's value in doing the kind of marking of all of these different sources to determine whether there was at some point one general dispersion because there's a relationship between potential life that we might detect one place and another and i don't know if that kind of work is going on and i wondered if you could speak to that. >> sure, i would be happy to. i assume you're talking about in our solar system. >> yes. there's been quiet a lot of work done, of course, to understand how frequently materialist and exchange between the earth and mars as i illuded to but also is it possible to get material from europa to the earth and vice versa and the answer the further out you go the less likely it
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is. the most resent studies that have been done which are all computer models say the chance of cross contamination between the saturn system and the earth is very, very small and the chance of contamination between europa and the earth is higher but small. one of the advantages of going to the outer solar system is that we may be going to habitual environments which have not been contaminat contaminated. if we find life there or the signs of life, we have higher assurance it had an independent margin on earth. could life had begun more than once in our own solar system and that's one of the attractions of going to the outer solar system. >> that leads me to another question. in a 2007 national academy's report called the limits of
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organic life and planetary systems, there was a caution against searching for a model of life based on the model that we know here on earth i think in our testimony, in your prepared statement it tightens methane. to what extent would they be
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able. -- if in fact those environments were found not to have a form of life that that would tell us there's something indeed special about liquid water. it would be building structures and therefore, if we go back to tighten, for example, with a boat or a submarine or whatever to explore the seas, if we find
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that the organic molecules, that's not going to be promising in terms of life. there's a molecule and structure made over and over again and i might suggest it's not life itself, at least a chemical evolution toward life is happening in those seas. beyond that, it's hard to feel much because we have our one example of life on earth. briefly, in places which have very earth-like environments, we would expect many of the basic molecules is like amino acids. we would see that in life in those environments. >> astronomy might feel it's a discovery field. we want to build instruments that are designed to be able to
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answer questions we know we're going to find unexpected things. we want to make a complete characterization of these planets as we can. just to give you an example, the telescope and sister based telescopes were never designed to look in the atmospheres. that has become one of the most impactful things that the telescopes have done because nerp built with a instrument very flexible.
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>> mr. chairman and to the ranking member, energizing committee in congress and as i'm sitting down here looking up at the top row for i dipped into the future as far as i could see and saw the vision of the world and all the wonder that would be. that's what this is about. this would be your mind to say you know what, this was intended to do that but we could use it for this.
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he talked about the challenge and all of us to explore. i have differences with chairman on prioritizing and actually funding. i see what you're all doing. your research and it was to be investments in the future. that will pay for a long time to come. i would really like to see us move forward. with that, i'm going to yield for maryland further questions. >> i thank the gentleman from colorado. he pulled a fast one of the chairman there. >> i just had one question on how you're planning to use the astrolg road map that's going to be released later this year and a year later than initially thought. will it be a major vehicle nasa
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is going to use to establish priority and priorities and what kind of challenges did the agency face that caused the one year delay to the road map? >> the astrobiology road map again will come out shortly. the reason that it's taking longer is because this science is t is evolving so rapidly and how to scientific community looks at it bringing in the disciplines that want to have a voice in astrobiology. nothing you do has anything to do with astro biology. all the sudden you say wait, i can contribute. the reason is we have been trying to get the best science from the scientific community and get it properly reviewed and get it out as soon as we can. we're happy it's done and it's about ready to go. how we use those road maps is
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definitely comes in several different ways. basically, what anybody then proposes to nasa whether it's to do research, a mission, they say here's my mission a may be composing to a competitive line at nasa. here's how i'm consistent with the goals. we can kwluz that at nasa saying that's high priority. we look to the community through the decade of process to say what is the best science, the latest science, the most up to date science and how can we use that to inform our decision making? >> just really quickly, is there a plan to have the national academies review the road map as well. >> i don't know that i can take that for the record. >> with that, i'll yield back to the gentleman from colorado and just say, i do get a little bit concerned with these constant discoveries which are really great and we find incredibly fascinating that the public becomes numb to it in a way that would harm us in terms of making
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sure that you have the resources that you need and with that, i yield back to the gentleman in colorado. >> and to the chairman and ranking member, the thing i enjoy is we're looking forward to the future. tonight, i don't know if you talked about the martians or not but the thing that's so fun is one he's a life guy and two, in that book it's about problem solving whether it's math or engineering or fphysics or biology. that's what's enjoyable about the committee and panels that smeek to us. i see you all looking to the future and not solving problems.
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i was going to end by doing that. this quote you see behind us is from a poem. of course, written by al fred. he lived from 1809 to 1892. i had the entire poem here. it's multiple pages. that's a wonderful excerpt of it. that brings me to the end of our hearing which was obviously, informative and exciting to all of us. let me add that when we think that we're somehow limited on what we might explore or what we might detect elsewhere in the cosmos, i think it's helpful to remember we here in the united states went from the write brothers to apollo in 66 years. 1903 we had two guys flying 120 feet above the ground. 66 years later we had 12 people
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walking on the moon over several years. thank you all for being here. most enjoyable and i thank the members who are here as well and we stand adjourned. hearing. and i think the thank me believes who are here, as well, and we stand adjourned. as the supreme court starts the new term, cspan debuts their new cases. we take a look at the new story
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behind the famous marbury verses madison case and the heated battles. president john adams, new president thomas jefferson and newly appointed chief justice john martial. marshall. >> john marshall established the court as the interpreter of the constitution. the famous decision he wrote of marbury versus madison. >> marbury and madison is probably the most famous case the court decided. >> author of "the great decision" cliff sloan. "landmark cases," exploring 12 historic supreme court rulings by revealing the people who were the plaintiffs, lawyers and justices in this case. "landmark cases" premiers live tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span3 and c-span radio. for background on each case while you watch, order the
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companion book available for $8.95 plus shipping at c-span.org/landmarkcases. the leaders of canada's three major parties debated foreign policy issues. conservative party leader stephen har ber, new democratic leader thomas mulcair and justin trudeau. the leaders speak in both french and english. some portions of the event do not include english translation. you don't know which of your factories will be demolished. >> russia's political leaders are not just rulers of their nation, they're country's owners. >> you don't know which of your
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arguments will be totally destroyed. >> i'm not prepared to sacrific the african continent for some free market neo liberal ideology. ap af and then you've got to come back and you're now rattled, you're shaken up. >> let's save the bleeding heart for somebody else. it's time to change.e lyou >> and you don't know what the hell to say, but you've got to d say something. >> i believe the 21st century soll belong to china, because most centuries have belonged to china.anng to >> blaming barack obama for the state that the world is in right now is like blaming a caribbeant island for a hurricane. >> the lesson of north korea has been, if you are a third-rate, dysfunctional country that lamin manages to acquire a couple of crude nuclear devices, you s remain a third-world, dysfunctional country with a couple of crude nuclear devicess >> if you want to engage in dysf humanitarian interventions, do it with your own sons and w daughters, not with mine.
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[ speaking french ] >> and welcome to the munk debate on canada's foreign policy.nk [ speaking french ]da's for and chair of the munk debates. it's my privilege to have the opportity to host tonight's historic proceedings. the first ever federal electiong debate devoted exclusively to foreign policy issues.stor [ speaking french ]es. first, the national television audience tuning in to this debate in french and english til nationwide on cpac and chch television and across north america on sirius xm and c-span onso, a warm hello to our online audience watching this debate right now in french and english on munkdebates.com and on the websites of our official media partners, facebook canada and
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the globe and mail.d and hello to you, the over 3,00o members of the munk debates who fill roy munson hall to capacity for this -- [ speaking french ] >> translator: let's start. f >> and our debates under way. >> translator: ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome mr. tom mulcair, leader of the new democratic party of canada.pleasure [ speaking french ] >> mr. thomas mulcair.
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plus [ applause ] >> next up is mr. stephen harper, the leader of the mr. ervative party of canada. [ applause ] >> translator: welcome, mr. harper, for the conservative party of canada. and finally, let me welcome mr. justin trudeau, leader of the liberal party of canada. [ applause ]of canad >> well, gentlemen, we are glad to finally have the three of you here on stage. you've all agreed to the rules of this debate in advance, and i want to quote as a friendly reminder the rule that leaders e will respect each other's right to speak in order to make pointt uninterrupted. so, let's get started.remin right now, the world is ake
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witnessing the largest humanitarian crisis since the second world war, as the t's conflict in syria and northern s iraq rages on. mr. mulcair, you have pledged aa prime minister to pull canada's military forces out of the international coalition fightins isis. question for you is, if the threat the islamic state represents doesn't justify a military response, when would ay ndp government use military if force? >> translator: you have 90 seconds to respond. alitary let's go. >> canada does have a role to play in fighting the horror that is isis. we can help stop the flow of e 0 arms, help stop the flow of funds and the flow of foreign fighters. there are more than 60 countries involved in the coalition. canada would remain a member with us, but only 12 are involved in the combat mission. >> translator: for me, it's important to remember that here
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in this evening, we are in the same room where we had jack ll c leighton, and i will continue rk jack's work, and i will take the same quebecua and canadian values, values of solidarity, oo sustainable economic development. we want to project into the de world scene. we don't want a canada that e pollutes and goes to war. it's a canada that respects on't values. >> -- that a prime minister hasa to get right. this election is about change, w and there is no area where canadians want change more than in that of our foreign affairs. prime minister has to maintain g good relation with the u.s. mr. harper's lost the respect of the white house.ee c we have to make sure that we ori have a place on the world stage. we missed our turn on the security council. we have to take care of the defining issue of the age, which is climate change. we are the only country to haver withdrawn from the quoto
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protocol.l. i'll defend your values, canadian values, on the world stage. where mr. harper's failed, we'll vat it done. y >> let's bring mr. harper into the debate for a seven-minute one-on-one with mr. mulcair for the topic of intervention. >> translator: mr. harper, what's your opinion on the subject? >> translator: our response to this crisis in the region is a generous and balanced response. our response to the refugees, our humanitarian aid -- >> generous but responsible rfg policy, bringing humanitarian aid to the region, and we're also, obviously, participating in the international military effort against isis. why are we doing that? not simply because isis threatens to slaughter, literally, hundreds of thousands, create millions of additional refugees, but this is an organization that it wants to use parts of syria and iraq as an international base for terrorist operations, not just
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in the region, but also against this country. that's why we're there with our allies and that's why there is broad international support for this intervention that is necessary, not just for the region, but to protect our own security interests. >> well, it's important to remember that this is not a nato mission. this is not a united nations mission. and to get back to your initial question, of course when it was a question of going into libya under the united nations' duty to protect, the ndp voted for those air strikes because it was a u.n. mission. when that started to morph into something completely different, we withdrew our support. so, the answer to you question is we understand that there will be times where under the nato charter or under our international obligations at the u.n. to use force, and we won't shy away from that. but the answer here is the only thing we can do -- now, mr. harper always takes the same approach. when your only tool is a hammer, all problems resemble nails, but this is a complex situation.
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it's one that has deep roots in many years of divisive conflict in the region, and there is one area where canada is completely failing, and that is in dealing with the refugee crisis. my own family, the irish side of it at the least, came over during the potato famines of the 1840s. and you know what? in quebec city, people went down to the docks, even though a lot of them were getting sick, and took in the most miserable in the world. that's canada. that's who we are. katherine's family, the jews who were expelled from spain, they were taken in in the muslim countries that are today turkey, it was then the ottoman empire. that's the opening world that we can always aspire to. 2 million refugees living in our nato ally turkey. we're not doing enough to help. there are requests from the united nations to take in 10,000 by christmas. mr. harper is not even going to get near that number. they want 46,000 between now and 2019.

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