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tv   Politics and Public Policy Today  CSPAN  May 25, 2016 9:00am-10:01am EDT

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. would be endless in libya. this is not to say that nothing
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can be and then in a sense efforts right now and then to create to command isis and then the security process and help the central bank and government push back against the demands and put restraints on spending on the salaries. not only that but according to the political agreement it should be dismanted and on original basis in sectors. it's also essential for the government of nationals to reside with the forces in eastern kwlab and mainly the eastern national army. the community should help in providing a proposal for the
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reconciliati reconciliation. it's the army's role in defeating the terrorists groups in the east and then the sacrifices in the east is paramount to affiliation. the u.s. and international community should support libya through different policy aspects and increase organized crime activity and second political consideration is crucial and then it should act on drivers in libya are and then it will help and has come to terrorism and then the immigrants and others.
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the idea is given and that's probably the international community should not be and the focus this strategy has saved before, and i was witness to that as i was for the political affairs and responsible for many of the security initiatives. in conclusion the u.s. and activity should not see libya in counter terrorism and should not take a tech that cal approach on bending capacity equipment,
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arming and et cetera. even though that they're important, but in order to achieve results sustainable results, the partners should help the new government tackle economic crisis, step up reconciliation and help develop functioning institutions so it can observe the support offered by the international community and can soefsh whatever is offered by the community. it's a high level of political efforts and it's more important now than ever. thank you.
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hi, i am jonathan and first of all there's an e norm mouse amount of wisdom expressed and generally speaking i agree with everything. not every word but close to to it on what's come up so with ev. not every word but close to to it on what's come up so far. in the last 72 hours we saw trying to regain political territory, the grab backs in territory and pathways that lead to triple and the south and to the east and return dash equipped, a big bust with vehicle and a closer device and killed what's been reported as three dozen libyan soldiers, so it was probably more and a some hundred people seriously injured that they're trying to keep alive. this battle between libyans and
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dash would differ rain appreciate them. libyans believe in their country and dash themselves. it offer a fantasy is, and i will go to a predatory fantasy goal of gods, girls and guns and that's men in their teens and 20s and offer nothing to anybody else in the long run. this battle is being fought right now. i had written down that chaos is the enemy. dash is an enemy and a big enemy, but chaos is the enemy and she kept on using that word because dash feeds on chaos, so if you want to get a defeat dash in libya, you have to address the factors as she did in the presentation that have fed chaos in libya. that's where a policy has to be based on at it's core.
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our strategic and interest in labia is is therefore supporting a unified libya and not one that's in parts with an accountable government and not people saying that i reclaim the resources, you you have to talk to me if you want anything because it's me and because i do. that was kind of the way that they ruled on behalf of the people for 40 years. it did not work then and would not with many of them that want to control a particular portion of the country and do not care about the whole. the u.s. strategy to counter dash is there to prolong the country and it's allowed the violent groups to per live rate. you have two different groups and then some other groups ch when you have undergoverned space, it's a great opportunity for bad guys to make mischief and foreigners to come in.
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libyans don't like anyone to come in and tell them what to do of any kind whether it's americans, or anything. they develop antibodies and that's why i am betting on libyans to win and not dash whatever the temporary us ranks maybe. so our approach to counter terrorism is tied closely to support the government of national accord. we think that libyans must be able and need a stable government to close the political and stable vacuum and that's a precondition to dash and other bad guy groups in the long run. so is it security first or economy first? well, it's hard to get people to invest in the company when security is a disaster. if washington dc had no
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international presence, we would be a poorer place. our economy one in a shambles and the united states and global super power. having everybody leave libya is bad for foreigners. they have to get participants in the economy. now, one of the key things that i learned in talking to the people in libya is that i said what performance can they put in place with a public financial management and good government and getting rid of the salaries and so on and so forth. that would make the difference. had he said that there's nothing that you can do and all of the territory if you were completely successful if libya is not pumping oil. they're responsible for 90 percent right now it's one tepth and then it's a quarter of
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what it used to be. it can be in section one and so one tepth at a time at a price of oil is one temth the way that it used to be. it does not work. they're going to eat it up and it's not worth it. the current economic problems and the security conditions are for the political. so we keep on look at security and what we're going to do about dash and the air strikes. well, we had two so far with the terrorists. if you had one, you could have two. if you had two, you can have three. we have done the clippings of libya in the past and offered a little bit of it. we're going to offer more. we have secured a successful communication agreement in earlier this week. i just came back from there and 22 countries including every country in the region. all of libya's neighbors, all of
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libya's mediterranean neighbors. all agreeing on the same things. integrated and unified government of the naggal accord and the arms to let that government and accord take on the terrorists which we support and probably will participate in if the libyans ask us, and moving ahead to try to build successful f national structures. on the economy clearly there's a crisis and some of that is hording, and we need to get through it. we have to give libyans hope that there's a future through the government and we have to get the next generations of libyans playing a significant role in a future libya because they have bad habits under him. i see a fresh generation who have fresh ideas and people
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everywhere that believe in their own country and a place to live in. u.s. policy is on the premise of one government and not multiple governments, compromise, shar g sharing, regional states ask. anyone that's had clients and proxies aligning on behalf of the unified government rather sthan fighting any regional or -- so whether you're east, south, west you have a stake in the government. if you stick with the princip s principles, you can make the process, and i think that we're starting to see as the gna take hold. thank you.
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kabuki thank you to the panel lists, and are you hearing me well in the back there? i am going o go through the -- i'm going ask a question of each one of the speaks and ask each of them a question and then maybe to ask them to question each other. does it look like a fun place to be living, approximate bbut i w a place that they can feel safe? this is not rocca, it's close to
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the sea born air assets of nato countries. there are these libyans factions that have been described quit well, i think by fred that threaten dash in one way or another. do they really see this as a place that they can build a fate long term? >> honest answer is is that i am not convinced and it's the best for now. it's the best opportunity that they had from late 2014 to 2015 to acquire a solid territory foothold with with links further and elsewhere on the coast and further south. i have not enough of an expert but from what i can see they have made attempts to go further
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south in terms of recruitment they're not just through to libya and also from more on the further african continent. i think that it's going to be there and i have little doubt there will be a fielt for the city at some point and isil and knowing that they appear to be led by commanders that have come there from syrian and iran, they will seek to sew as many as they can and other communities so as to prolong the control and approximate the surrounding areas for as long as possible. then of course what happens after that, we have to wait and see. i don't think that it's a cocoincidence that they have demonstrated in march of this year the capacity to spill over into libya. i don't think that it's a coincidence that we have seen
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isis go down or reduce the amount of mass executions that they have carried out. human rights wants to report recently and they have documented 49 executions and it's actually a low number for isis believe it or not. i don't think that it's a coincidence that we have seen the relatively low number and it's probably aware of the po potential dangers that they have there coming into the future. if they feel under pressure, we will see more killings. we will see more tax and probably oil industry and the south may come under attack and then more mass executions. i don't think that we're there yet. right now we're there and we're in that city building that we have seen replicated elsewhere in equgypt in syria, iraq and elsewhere. >> fred, let me ask you to pick up on that. how successful do you think dash
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can be in turkey and syria. after all, there has to be a lot of competition not only from the libya factions but from the new government of national accord. i just question how much in the way of financial reserves daesh can bring in bare in try to go affect libyans and other fighters. i realize there's a reservoir of potential fighters elsewhere in africa and so on. what are the practical constrants on daesh and how you is it possible for the combination of the libyan government of national accord and international partners to
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compete with them? >> well, there's a lot there. i think that you have -- sorry you have answered it. they're not able to really replicate the sort of state building functions that they have elsewhere because they lack, you know, revenue streams. they're not able to tap into vast sectarians and there's a pocket that they have planted themselves. they have been pushed out and it's sort of very, you know, epp though the i can. as i mentioned libya that's allowed them come in, there's a buff er that they run against the towns where ever they go. gain it's the lack of will and capacity of these factions that have allowed them to grow, so they're still capable of great disruption and they should not be taken lightly and have the
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attacks abroad. there are as jonathan mentioned the attack was really a pre-empti pre-emptive. it's coming and it's quiet violent and a lot of people have lost their lives. the question about what can the qna do, it's to the question of the antedote. it can only get you so far. something has to come after isis and it has to be inclusive and there has to be a rule of you law. we don't want to substitute one threat for another. there's a reason that it's flourished in these locales, so again i think that it's absolutely critical that we go cautiously and that though the i
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>> if the weather improves in the mediterranean, we have people coming across to europe and desperate refugees, with all of the potential for the terrorists coming along with them, which countries would be most critical to western military efforts to bolster the libyan government in dealing with these kinds of security problems? which countries feel most threatened, and which countries are are likely to come forward with some kind of military assets if things deteriorated to that extent? >> well, again i think that you have answered it. the european countries that are affected and they have announced
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the willingness and the italians are crucial to this and they have backed off from participate nothing the stable force, i do believe that they have committed to training the british and the french have the forces already on the ground, and i think that they will be critical to lending expertise now. i think that there's a huge will among the european powers and it's a matter of coordinating them and on the soft one, it's crucial because the soft interactions are not working across purposes, and then just making sure that countries that have certain capabilities to contribute. the italians have a police training mission that's beneficial to what, you know, libya needs and then the u.s. has certain capabilities. we really need to learn the lessons of the past training failures that were eluded to that we did the training before
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there was anything to absorb the training. you train a bunch of soldiers, but what do they come back to. they're malicious. you train one that's representative to all libyans fashions and not training one particular town and tribe. >> yeah surely you're not suggesting that we just dump some military equipment in there on this arm forces of the new unified libyan government and expect them to be able to use it without significant training measures? >> did i say that? >> no. that's my question. how much training is going to be required to absorb it? >> well look we know from past experience how long does it take to create it from a fractured country? how well did we do in iraq?
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gain it goes to the question of it's not simply a technical capacity. i think that we're looking at a very long time. we have the immediate isis threat, and we need to be looking at the long gain in how to rebuild the military, it's going to take a long time. >> okay. let me follow up on that with you. they have in lifted the sales of military equip nlt to the government and assuming that that gets through the un security counsel and my understanding is that it will take a un security counsel vote,
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don't know what russia might do at this stage, but assuming that there's a un security counsel resolution, is your government also going to request specific assistance in terms of training the forces and how would take be organized and where would it be on libyan territory? would it be in egypt? i don't think quit understand how you form up the armed forces for the new government starting where you are now. >> okay. >> let me tell you something and go back to the countries among them the countries where they
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have proposed to train some libyan soldiers and it was after the g 8 summit in 2013, they made a proposal and it was the general purpose and the idea was to create a national ar mir. the idea was to train them abroad. we failed big time because the betting was inappropriate. how can you train them and literally by six or seven schools and you expect the soldiers to come back. any way it failed because the reason why we did not have a proper strong institution for vetting, was the government was committed to i don't know what the institutions to the existing
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week and defense ministry. right now let me tell you that we have a lot of professionals all over the country. south, west and east we have many different trains and then literally it's existed in a time and it was just like any other institution of the country and they had big massive capacities as you know during the revolution when the counselor opened, and i think the country had a huge massive amount of arms. those officials and military ranks are available and there. the idea is to gather them. i think this is what is starting to happen. i know the government of national accord is already working with these people and
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the same in the east. yes, the war was tough and yes it's street kind of fight. it's not traditional kind of fight. you have to rely that the fighting terrorism is not a traditional classic con tronation. it's complicated because it should depend on intelligence and forces and operations and not by the means of heavy artillery. to sum it up, i do think that we have the army in libya. we do do have a huge number of trained soldiers and young soldiers and in the west and now we're in a period where these
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people have not come with blood:they're there and building on that. we shoul build on it. we should build the capacity and we have to be very careful here because we just need to assist what we have already. we need to make sure that it's in the right hands and falling in the right hands. we need to solve the problem of them and i spoke about that earlier and then the government has to be supported to resist the pressures and there desire to continue. i mean we don't want to go back and go back to square one and a country of that. we need to convince the young people and i wish many times that this would be in one of our revolutions and one of the counsels resolutions that it's the duty of the government of
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national accord and then the community to support us on that. this should be giving incentives and the programs should be starting in parallel, and only at that point we can see a proper army being formed and accessing what we have and what is needed and i think the government's national accord would be prepared between the other groups across the country and they would be prepared to make the proper requests. >> wow, thank you for that. i want to apologize for jumping over the very i think well considered order in which you presented the issue that is the government has to face. you said in the prepared remarks of course that security could not come first. that you had the start with getting the economy o going and having political reconciliation
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and you specified that of the national accord with the libya national army in the east. i want to recognize that you have a well thought out approach to that. i did not mean to distrot the views on getting you to mel tear preparedness and military topic, but you did that extreme hadly well. jonathan, i want to come to you last here. noting that some of the things we indy kalted and the u.s. government indicated following what seems to be a very successful meeting in vienna was that we were going to be prepared to be quit forthcoming in support of a wide range of support for the libyan government of national accord in affect saying that if they would form themselves up as a partner, we would be there to partner
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with them. i really wonder to what degree this is going to have the necessary e level of support from the congress of the united states which has not shown to be enthusiastic for some times for all of the things that need to be done. to what extent do we need to build more support within the united states and particularly even though there were as you noted all the government's in the region signed on in vienna and in the past it's been my impression that we have not had a support for the idea of the international community and giving behind a single government. i wonder to what degree this
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issue needs to be higher on the agenda of the relations with egypt for example and in terms of making certain that the international community carries out the high minded pledges that it made. >> we were talking about libya most of this week and probably most of last week and the week before. we forget when with we continue to have the conversation after conversation with one another. getting alignment among all of the regional players and all of the neighbors and regional players as well as the neighbors has been at the core of the policy for the past several years. libya can't afford to get divided up and fighting with one
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another. that's part of what leaves the chaos. if you have one regional state supporting one player and a different regional state supporting another one, that's not going work well for libya. i think that everybody understand that. egypt, united, qatar, sudan, chad, any jer octavia and morocco can. i hope that i have not missed any of the other national ones as well as united kingdom, france, germany, spain, european yuan fon and african you i don't know all signed on to this communication and that's a full endorsement of the government of national accord. the way that i think about it is like water hydraulics. i don't know if there are other kind of hydraulics, but cannot predict where the particle is
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going to o go when water is falling through something. that's the core of the chaos there. if you dig a trench, most of the water is going to go down the trench. if you go go a channel, most of the water is going and then you dig the channel and then coat the channel and then start to put in the filters and a variety of things to make the water look good and eyesful for more purposes. what we're doing is trying to create a channel for national unity and reconciliation and for building the institutions that libya needs for enough stability so that the economy can come back and pump oil and that's for the libyans and to distribute the wealth fairly and the way that brings people in and take advantage of the natural resources to rebuild the country. that's what we're trying to do. i think that we made a lot of progress. there are still a lot of problems, but we're making progress. the more progress that we make,
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the more that libya can can take on daesh as the vast vast vast majority of libyans want to do and then reduce it and push it out. it's happening already. you see the fighting. it's not like nothing is happening. they're going to have less territory again. this is transplanted into libya and that was planted by extreme irs elements and some of them said that we don't want them. you have been doing it for a long time and they did not like being told what to do from foreign extremists and kicked them out. the libyans are difficult.
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we love working with her and they can be fractions and carving that channel in a way that's going to be good and that they're going say that this is good is what we're trying to do. either we can not predict where the drop is going to go and if it's going take -- even though it's going to take time and it is. thank you. >> thank you. i'm going to be willing to take some questions from the audie e audience. i will be willing to take the questions from the argued yens and so raise your hand. i have already seen a few of you with the hands up. i suspect that there's more questions and i am able to get to. when i call on somebody, would you number one introduce you yourself to the name and affiliation and then number two, ask a question. do not make a statement and keep it short. end with a question mark.
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okay. let me start in the middle there. jack, wait until you get the microphone. >> also a pleasure to hear a panel but to take instructions from a good alternative. i am jason pack and founder in libya isis.com. i agree with the panel and i said that there's no doubt a symptom of the malties of libya's implosion portion 2011 and the cause. as they started off saying and fred comments without a bonifide coalition, it's going to be impossible to make real gains or sustainable gains. so my question is in a way of following up, those actors who
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support the other factors and then the east or others that don't want to be apart of this coalition, it's all well and good to sign and what can be done by the international kbh community to devise completely. i think the sanctions and pressure of the other areas are crucial. what are the concrete proo poseles that can make people fall into line both regional actor os and different thmaliti on the ground. >> john, let me ask you to start that and then the other panel can jump in. >> it starts with the sanctions. they're with the global and national security threats and they have to be legally justified. we sanctioned the speaker of the parliament of the government and
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libya we recognized prior to the gna. after he undertook a series of activities to prevent people from voting and that's when a majority of the people were ready to support and not just a majority, but a super majority out of 150 that were ready to go. we sanctioned him and we sajsed whale that threatened to imprison or inflict violence on anyone that's participated after being sajsed he left town. he lost protection and the central bank and they channelled all of the authority to the government of national accord and then the request from either of the legacy governments and
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that was a profound economic shift, and i think it had the impact. now, recently there was an effort to sell oil and it was supported by the house of representatives and not responding to the government of national accord. we have a designation by the un to declare the oil and that was the captain up and turn it around. they cooperated and the oil was unloaded and the world was no longer suspectable to diversion. we were very grateful for the willingness to help as well outside of the area of south asia and the global responsibility. we have a unified approach and all of the koungs members said yes. not just the typical three, but
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the full five. fully cooperated with one another and they should have mentioned that. very important to have all five of them on board and to have all five of them pulling together on behalf of the same goals, so i mentioned egypt and we worked very very hard to try and consul with russia and china as with we go along. here we had complaints on how this came to be and without going into the history, it's worth noting that we have them and then the alignment is tremendously important too. so is after that, what happens next? did the eastern not say that they were going continue to move the oil out because they did not have a right too? they sure did:then they heard that there was a possibility that the participants might get sajsed as well. not just with the individuals. i don't know whether that has an impact on them or not. i do know that there was a deal
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cut in the last 48 hours between the eastern knock and the western knock. the eastern knock agrees and so the government authority and then they say that they're part of it, then they are. there's reconciliation and then the action and that's a mixture of the sanctions and do we want to sanction anybody? we don't want to sanction anybody and we don't want to have libyans telling us what to do or anybody else. if they're not coming together and unified, you have to carve the channel. it's as a signaling device and trying to get people in the right territory and then to back off when you can. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> let's get one to the gentlemen on the right. >> jonathan, you just answered part of my question which is what degree does the gna control
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things at present? the oil companies, investments, central bank, to what degree has any progress been made on unifying the parliaments? where are we had in the process? and then i would ask to what degree is there a connection between the gn skparks the local governme government. . >> it's a working process of course. the central bank that controls all of the foreign exchange. all of it has been based in triply and is on the authority of the gna and undertakes no activities that's under alignment with the policies and approach of the gna.
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they have some in dependence and it's still aligned. the role to to the one to to the east is hard to access. i was very disturbed last week when i read in the wall street journal that they were going to have one break into the safe and breakout with kadolphie and no one could see that was his face. that reduces the value of the coins in libya and even to coin collectors. there was very disturbing. i thought about criminals broke into central banksafe, but it was being reported now by a central government governor. reports of large amounts of currency being printed to go into libya. i don't know if that's true or not. they say that they support the gna and most of the money is
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tied up and that's a good thing. the national company we just discussed, so it's a work in progress and then the channel c. it's going control things and most towns and cities in the united states don't take the direction from president obama or biden. they go about the work under existing arrangements. very few of us take guidance from the top offices of the country. the system kind of works. so the question is who is exercises the authority where, and as i said twice and try not to say it a third time, it's a work in process and hard to say. if people agree to expect the authority of something, then that authority is expected, so the process is as much a state of mind as a political one as anything else. what has to have happen is that they have to use the authority
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very wisely and working with the sent bank in particular to get resources on the ground, currency on the ground and purchasing power and things like letter of credits to get goods imported so if there's enough stuff in libya and people are thinking that the needs are being taken care of properly. this is what they were referring to before. that's the most important thing that they have to do, and they're working on it. i hear from some people that there's going to be a real progress over the next couple of weeks and other people are pulling the hair out and saying that it's not going to be enough, and we need more measures. are they focused on it, yes? it's critical and it's absolutely essential. thank you. >> it's been a great discussion by a couple of the speakers about cukus kus and sanctions.
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i am going the get one more question out there. >> thank you for the presentati presentation. of course isis is of course, but since 2011 the various they have been responsible for for less. those that are talking about a selective listing of the arms in vargo assure us that there's vetting. i would like to hear from any member of the panel that can explain you how it will be credible. who is going do it? who has the intelligence to insure that the arms don't go into the wrong hands. thank you. >> well. [ inaudible ] involve in a society in libya before and i think she's in a great position to answer this question. >> civil society? i will answer it maybe with my
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capacity also as i said under the akrcreditor for foreign affairs. this is what i mentioned earlier. i said that we should not trash and it's as simple as that. we have to be kosher. i interrated and the idea of supporting the arms right now, i need -- we need to access what we have. we need to access our legitimate forces that are going to use that. we need to make sure that -- we have to make sure that it's not going fall in other hands. i think that the others will agree with me, and i heard mr. wailing mention that we should not rush into such an issue, yet we need to organize ourself and need to to know who is going talk what and where it's going to go. i pointed out previously that we
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had a huge amount of arms and there was a lot of smuggling and organized crime, smuggling arms and selling arms in the country, and besides arms in the count country. besides isis, you know, we have huge organized crime network in the country and huge amounts of arms going in and out, so we need to be cautious, definitely. i mean, and i think this is what's going to happen. thanks. >> thank you. i'd like to take -- let me take one more question from the lady in the middle. and then i'm going to ask all four members of the panel to leaving us with a final thought, one or two sentences, what the takeaway from the program should be in their mind. go ahead, ma'am. [ inaudible ] >> can you hear me now? is that good? my name is amanda.
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i'm with "brand." my question is about coordination among international actors, sort of carrying on from what jason said about, you know, communique is nice, but beyond that there needs to be some sort of, you know, concrete measure. how do you see coordination among u.s. allies, like italy, france, the uk? because from what it seems is that each actor or each country has its own plan in place for what it's doing on the ground in terms of special forces operations and relationship-building. so what is the degree of communication among those actors that you see, and are they communicating in terms of intelligence-sharing? do they have individual relationships that are different with different militias on the ground? and then from there, do you trust that the gna is actually a body that will provide the kind
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of factual information that you're looking for in terms of which militias to trust and which militias to work with? >> let me start with fred in answering that question. >> well, i'll take the last part of that. i mean, factual information -- i mean, this is the real problem is that a lot of these militias are sort of auditioning, raising their hands saying i'll fight isis, help me, and they figured out it's a great way to get support. and the sort of question about, well, what does that really mean? is there a criteria for signing up? and you know, that goes also to the human rights vetting, which is tremendous ly problematic. in the past, i think when the outside, when the europeans and turkey tried to train the general purpose force, you know, the record-keeping system in libya was quite sparse. you didn't know who was a criminal. some people talked to tribes, you know, ask around the family,
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is this a good person or a bad person. i mean, it's worrisome. i mean, some of the actors that are pushing back against the islamic state right now are running their own prisons. i went into one in tripoli where guys are being thrown in there -- who's isis, who's not? okay, how do you know he's isis? so the question of due process is really, really an issue. the issue of coordination among special forces. i don't know -- i mean, i've seen the reports about what the french did in benghazi. and so, each actor has its own impulse, its own agendas. and i think it can be detrimental to nalco heesion if it's not orchestrated. i guess that would be my point. they would have to be on the same sheet because when you back faction "a," it creates rapele affect. it could be damaging down the road. so that goes to my point that this has to be all in the same sheet and we have to proceed with caution. and that would be my sort of closing point, if i can bring it
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in early is first do no harm. let's be very careful before we rush in. this is a society that is probably more resilient than we think. people i talked to, they want their lifestyle issues addressed, they want their economy. and so, i think that has to be the first step. >> okay, good way for you to end, fred, and i appreciate it. first do no harm. charles? >> two things i'd want to mention. it's been said already that isis is not necessarily a libyan phenomenon. i think that's absolutely right. that would spark me to say what i always say when i'm talking about syria, is don't forget about the other one, which is al qaeda. and i think an sad sharia has had a foothold in libya much longer than isis has, so the main libyan branch is intensely connected to al qaeda's central leaderships, both in the region and further afield. i think last year there was a conference held between basically every single al
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qaeda-linked group in north africa and all the way as far south as mali in benghazi, and that was coordinated by ansar sharia. so, talking on an isis panel, i will say don't forget about the other jihadi enemy, which i would say has much more of a historical foothold in parts of libya. the second point on train-and-equip. if i was as someone who works on syria to say there is a parallel, the train-and-equip mission in syria that is best known is one which spectacularly failed. that failed because there was a refusal to understand and acknowledge the reality of local dynamics, the reality of what people's priorities were. so, if i was to draw a parallel to libya, i would say don't make any train-and-equip mission only about isis. the whole broader long-term context of libya has to be taken into account. and secondly by extension, the train-and-equip mission that has worked in syria, i would argue,
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is the one managed by the central intelligence agency and coordinated with regional governments. that took 18 months to find the first genuinely reliable, vetted forces. that still exists to this day. over 50 armed groups have received that vetting, training and equipping process since 2012-2013. and 2 out of 53 on my count don't exist anymore. so, it's a remarkable success rate, but it goes to show how long it takes to conduct a process like this. and how important that process was in succeeding and actually acknowledging the local dynamics that was the primary reason for its success. so again, to reiterate what i have said and others have said is it takes time. don't rush a process like this. if you rush it, it will fail. >> wafa, would you like to just leave us with a couple final thoughts? >> yeah, just one thought.
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recognize that the process of unifying the whole of libya and securing it is going to be a long process. and the situation will probably still get worse before it gets better, but my message is for the international community, for the u.s. government, with gratitude for their high diplomatic and political efforts so far and to jonathan in particular, who's been doing a lot of traveling and a lot of hard work. and we communicate sometimes along the day and around the hour. but my message is for them to maintain the momentum and help in coordinating efforts for reconciliation. we need more and more and more reconciliati reconciliation. we need to invent proposals and
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initiatives, and that will be the key for unifying libya and for reaching peace. thank you. >> thank you. jonathan. >> thank you. i know it will be much better for me to wait until president clinton or president trump takes over and leave them with the libyan problem and divest myself of it. that would be definitely be better for my physical and psychological well-being. there's no doubt of it. i'm not convinced, however, that it would be better for libya to just wait, including on the issues we've talked about. don't do things until you know what the results are going to be. be very, very, very afraid, not just very, very careful, i'm sure. i love omelets. i need omelets. i hate breaking eggs. i won't let you break eggs. i don't like egg beaters. it's not a very satisfactory set of formulations. daesh is killing a lot of people in libya today and will kill a lot more before it's done and lots more of that and destroy a
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lot more lives if you just let it be. libyans will fight back against them, but they have asked, they've been asking for it, east and west and south, different types of help. should the united states and other members of the international community, a phrase i hate, respond to them positively or ignore them and say, no, we'll wait for president clinton or president trump? i said "clump." that was not a freudian slip. it was just a mispronunciation. we're faced with the policy choices that we're faced with. don't underestimate is my last point, the power of communiques. they establish norms and we can measure conduct against norms and base conduct against norms that have been set. and underestimating the power of a communique is i think a mistake, particularly if people are determined to use it. thank you.
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>> let me say something as moderator and somebody who's been involved in libya since i went there as a young diplomat in 1969. the whole history of u.s./libyan relations is one of some very, rather brief periods of very intense involvement often violent. our war against tripoli in the beginning of the 19th century, our bombing of tripoli and benghazi in 1986 but also some brief periods of very benevolent involvement -- helping libya become an independent country after the second world war when other people would have just turned them back to the italians and also the role of american oil companies in

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