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tv   Politics and Public Policy Today  CSPAN  July 20, 2016 1:30pm-3:31pm EDT

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how much are you conscious of the composition and here you are in a war circumstance and it's happening all around you and go to raise that camera in front of you. what are you trying to see? are you trying to isolate if that's something that comes into your mind when you do that? >> that's why god created cropping. [ laughter ] >> we're happy to get something in there we could deal with later. composition, for me it's really important if you can do it. you know, it's the rare case where a picture is framed perfectly like, is that what you were talking about how you see it like artistically or -- >> yes. >> artistic is not a word that goes through my mind at that moment, usually.
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[ inaudible ] >> you know, again, it goes back to what i said earlier. nick and i are both professional photographers both actually i spent five years of wire photographer. really our job. it's that simple. don't you think. >> picture showing a story. >> always the right story.
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>> it's quite fascinating, very interesting. my question was, when you were in country, were there any areas you were specifically forbidden to go to or simply explicitly told you should not or were there any subjects or areas you felt were off limits that perhaps that wouldn't be beneficial for your camera? >> good question. >> well, i know we were talking about coverups on the government side. my experience was i found the military incredibly helpful wherever i wanted to go, hitch a ride on a chopper. a few were stupid enough or excited enough to get into action, you could get there. if there were americans or vietnamese, i never had one instance where i wasn't able to
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go where i wanted to go, see what i wanted to see and one of the profound experiences that i had was when i would show up in the field with a group of american gis and questions intelligence to show the world what was going on to them and i had almost 100% really good cooperation with the government that didn't extend to what reporters going on in washington but by the time i got in there it's the last time by the way. this has not happened since where we just had a free hand to go where we wanted to go but there was never -- if you had
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the wherewithal to get into somewhere and usually the photographers would be going to where the action was, you could do it. and i -- did you ever have an instance where people kept you out? >> we had a military path and vietnam, played and we didn't want trouble. they are welcome to take a picture. i don't want trouble. >> big trouble is when you got there. >> proper. >> not proper at all. >> getting there -- >> so easy. >> getting there wasn't the problem. >> today more difficult. >> today is -- >> iraq -- afghanistan, i think from vietnam war to other thing. they are having more freedom to
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travel that shows they got a poor camera. >> uh-huh. >> uh-huh. >> thank you. >> we have time for one more question. >> verification question. i wasn't clear what happened to the young girl that was burned so badly. did she survive? is she still alive? what's -- could you tell us something about that? >> that's a picture of her, by the way. the photo was taken by kim. >> she still alive today. she's now 54. she live in toronto, canada. i talk to her one a week. she come here this week but she speaking today and she's married with two children and travel everywhere in america and talk about her picture. >> and she's still suffering from those burns. she has great pain from the burns. i want to thank -- this has been a privilege to be on the stage with you all and i want to thank
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you for coming and i want to thank you as well. i have a few announcements. okay. i just want -- you can come up afterwards perhaps and ask because what we're going to be doing now is right after this, there's going to be a ceremony of the pinning of the vietnam vets so if there is any vets in the audience to go and mark up will be awarding them the pin. and i'd like to also recognize the vietnam vets that are in the audience, if they are here, can you please stand so we can celebrate you? [ applause ] >> thank you for coming. we appreciate it. we can take their question. >> thank you. >> oh, thank you. [ applause ]
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c-span's convention coverage begins live today at 7:30 eastern. scheduled to speak tonight are wisconsin governor scott walker, senators marco rubio and ted cruz, and newt gingrich and vice presidential candidate governor mike pence. making america first again is tonight's convention theme. again, live coverage starts at 7:30 eastern on c-span. you'll have a front row seat to every minute of the republican and democratic national conventions on c-span.org. watch live streams of the convention proceedings, without commentary or commercials. use our video clipping tool to create your own clips of your favorite convention moments, and share them on social media.
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also, read twitter feeds from delegates and reporters in cleveland and philadelphia. our special convention pages have everything you need to get the most of c-span's gavel to gavel coverage. go to c-span.org/republicannational convention and c-span.org/democraticnational convention for updated schedule information to see what's happening during each convention session. and every speech will be available on demand for viewing when you want, on your desktop, laptop, tablet, and smartphone. our special convention pages and all of c-span.org are a public service of your cable or satellite provider. so if you're a c-span watcher, check it out, on the web, at c-span.org. coming up next, on the presidency, smithsonian national portrait gallery senior historian david ward. he chronicles abraham lincoln's life through photographs and portraits and discusses details in the images that reveal idiosyncrasies, like what his clothes reveal about his health,
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or why he chose certain photographers. the university of st. mary hosted this 90-minute event. >> good evening. my name is brian labow. i'd like to welcome you to the 18th annual university of st. mary lincoln event, featuring smithsonian national portrait gallery senior historian david c. ward, who will speak on the first visual presidency, how abraham lincoln used photography for politics, which seemed particularly important this year to do. and a special welcome to the crew from c-span television who will be covering this event for later broadcast on c-span tv. as a reminder, when we open the floor to questions, please be sure to use the microphones. if you don't, you'll not be heard on television and you'll
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miss your big media event. our speaker tonight, david ward, joined the national portrait gallery in 1981. he oversees the permanent collection galleries include ing the spaces devoted to the antebellum age, 1820 to 1860, as well as the gallery in the ongoing exhibit 20th century americans. among his many accomplishments, too many that i can go into completely tonight, david was co-curator of an award winning exhibition hide, seek, difference in desire and american portraiture. currently working on rehanging the hall of presidents, not the presidents, the hall of presidents, and the american origin space along with cure rating new exhibits on the photographer mario testino and a survey called the sweat of their face, portraying american workers 1750 to 2015. speaking more directly to his
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talk tonight, david has his fourth civil war themed exhibit on view now at the portrait gallery called dart fields of the republic, alexander gardener photographs 1857 to 1872, which includes several lincoln photographs. i saw this last week and thoroughly enjoyed it. and this exhibit was preceded by the portrait galleries one life grant and lee, the mask of lincoln and walt whitman, a cosmos, you may remember the last year walt whitman was a theme of our lincoln event. i might mention that along the way, with his work at the national portrait gallery, this multitalented david ward is a poet, an editor, and a literary critic. a selection of his poetry was published in 2011, called internal difference, and a full collection call waiting was published in 2014. david earned his bachelor degree from the university of rochester and graduate degrees from both
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warwick university in england and yale university. please join me in welcoming david ward. [ applause >> thank you, brian. thank you, all. really delighted to be here. also, i want to -- because i am for the portrait gallery, art and history museum, i want to congratulate the portrait competition winners. and i do need to say that we are traveling our portrait competent significance which opens in april in the national portrait gallery and at the kemper next year. i invite you all to join us then and i invite our portrait competition winners tonight to come and see how much better they are than most of americans contemporary portraitures. thank you, i'm pleased to be here. i'm always -- i've been
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fascinated with lincoln for a long -- a fairly long time. the other reason i accepted this invitation is when i came to kansas, i had a great time. i've always really enjoyed it. and then today i realized i would be in leavenworth. so you are kind of taking your chances tonight. so happy president's day. great to get together and celebrate the career of franklin pierce, william henry harrison, john tyler, can't forget john tyler. and i'm joking and slightly to make a point. i understand the imperatives of the three day weekend and bureaucracy and you can't take two days off as we used to do back when i was a lad, february 12th and february 22nd for the alpha and omega presidents washington and lincoln. but there is a kind of participatory medal now to the presidents, they all get lumped together. lincoln and with pierce. and some of this is a
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justifiable suspicion of the great period of history, 19th century, with thomas carlisle and worked its way through to popular biographies that glorified lincoln or glorified washington or teddy roosevelt, the greats if you will. and we now are more sensitive to democratic politics, more sensitive to diversity and the panoply. and i'm not a devotee of the great -- i don't like it. i don't believe the single individuals with rare exception including as we'll get to with lincoln that they determine the outcome of world historic events that hagel's world individual who included lincoln, doesn't really work for history. history is much more multifaceted and complicated, but i do think we lose something, first instance in asia by not celebrating people who were great. i think they would -- it is a good idea to celebrate people who really achieved something. and while not all the presidents have and not all the presidents
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will, that people like lincoln and all their complexity, washington, two roosevelts, have done so. i think we should pay some attention to it. how does this work? i went the wrong way here. it was short. i did my best. the other thing as part of the interpretive theory, historians are always changing things, they need to come up with new ideas because they need to write new books so they can keep their jobs, and the frederick jackson turner frontier thesis is largely discredited, but as i've gotten older, and thought about it again, and not in a yes or no way, that you can bring in the fact that america crossing the prairies, crossing to the west coast, actually does change
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american character. and, again, i revert to the fact that i am in kansas, and it is great to be in the plans, which begins, carl sandberg's first volume of his biography of lincoln, the prairie years, begins with lincoln being formed, the long travel between kentucky and illinois, and we have said the speech in leavenworth, because in washington, you're surrounded by monumental lincoln. lincoln and the lincoln memorial at the end of the mall looking at us, still kind of homey and lincoln was always accessible figure if you will. fascinated as most people are with his face. but sitting in this huge edifice with the huge building and white marble and the facies out of many one, after mussolini you can't use that as a sculptural
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item but it meant e pluribus unum before that. but you have the monumental lincoln and including the gpa healy portrait, the signature portrait in our gallery, the portrait gallery has all of the presidents along with the white house, we're the only collection that concludes all of the presidents. and this is our signature, if you will, i don't particularly -- i have to say they made the mistake of putting me in charge of hanging the presidents and i don't like this portrait and i'll end with the portrait i want to replace this with. but this is a typical 19th century american portrait which hides as much as it reveals. it is a thoughtful lincoln, his face has been airbrushed, posthumous. it is a little bit after lincoln died. it is lincoln being avuncular and thoughtful and all rest of
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it. and we have the mystery of abraham lincoln, the monument and the portrait, it hides what is an extraordinary career. and i think this western movement from kentucky to springfield, the family spends one entire year -- winter in a lean to, a pine lean to, open ended with a fire burning, his family, takes his mom and you have the lincoln as the president and we read back into these beginnings, which are ultimately mysterious. i called my exhibition the mask of lincoln because we all have a public persona. i have one on now, where i'm speaking to you as a semiqualified historian, and talking to you in a professorial, professional way. in your private life, you are different ways of doing things. for lincoln, and lincoln had that element of a public pose, as most politician states men
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do, but there is something mysterious where the mask for me blocks lincoln, the accessibility of getting to lincoln is -- becomes more and more difficult and i'm taking a still taking a skill here of henry fonda young. you can see that lincoln has become part of the natural landscape and is lying on his back with feet in the tree and reading. this drove thomas lincoln mad that lincoln would -- lincoln would read a book while plowing and would get to the end of the road and forget to turn the horse around. thomas would come down and get angry at him. it is funny but it is not because thomas lincoln would beat him and switch young abraham. there is this drive and the element of parental disapproval. dreamy young man, dreaming what? in the middle of nowhere.
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a small farm, failed father as a mentor, no guidance, no college. i think we forget in the 19th century how there was no safety net. if you didn't succeed you died and disappeared. there was no record of your passing. lincoln himself cuts off the discussion of his youth where he refuses to talk about it where he just simply -- lincoln does this repeatedly where he just cuts it off. he cuts the line. he forbids any real inquiry to the chicago newspaper about what he was doing. when lincoln's father, thomas, is on his death bed young mr. lincoln moved on and is 80 miles
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away and refuses to come to the death bed. he doesn't go to the funeral. he cuts off the relations with the man who he had grown to loathe. he had grown to loathe him in part because his dad would hire him out. this is the origins for lincoln in notion that i borrow from the bible. for my show on american workers because this is the beginning of ideology or free labor, the beginning of lincoln's evolution from advocate of free labor to antislavery, abolitionism and the great freedom. and, of course, lincoln is coming of age politically and generationally and where photography is coming into
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vogue. the element of oil painting is disappearing. lincoln is not the first visual president because in my title because other presidents, there was a thirst to know what presidents look like. iconic presidents like george washington especially, andrew jackson or lesser known ones, john quincy adams would have an oil painting done because it was customary with the royalty and you would have a democratic portrait in a democratic country. then there would be lith graphs and prints and drawings of varying quality. as you move down the food chain the quality becomes not pretty artistic. so there was this thirst to find imagery which photography satisfies. you have lincoln for the first time here 1846 becoming visible.
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again, he has worked his way up. he is a lawyer, becoming a lawyer, establishing himself. he has gone through this process of auto didacting, self teaching of where all of the cliches are true where he does walk five miles to return five cents. he does learn to cipher by using wooden logs. there is primitivism which only adds to the mystery that in the beginning of this modern country that the united states is becoming that lincoln is coming out of the west. he is coming into prominence and fairly early on in 1846 he starts to get photographed. the thing that is interesting about lincoln politically to me is that he is a classic figure of the democratic party as it emerges the jackson party, if you will of the small, older. he becomes a wig which is the
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party of privilege. and american historians slightly overdrawn this and taken the example of the french revolution where it is a conflict between the haves and have nots and the democrats being the party of the working class and progressives. some of that is true. some of it there is demographically a difference. what lincoln does -- this is a cast of lincoln's hands which is in the national portrait gallery collection. i am showing that because i want to emphasize his origins working class individual that he was the rail splinter. he did work for his father and more willingly as he made his way on the river looking for jobs, scuffling for a job in the 19th century when there was no real pattern to follow outside
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of priesthood. it's the rough nature of lincoln which was part of his political career. we think of lincoln again particularly as he has become methologized after death of not being human. one thing he had was attribute of physical strength. 165, 170 pound guys who he was famous for his resting ability. he had his trick where he would hold a sledge out parallel to the ground and he could hold it there longer than anyone else. his element of masculynnity, lincoln although he jokes about his service where again early election success elected captain, he jokes about it but an element about early charisma which is embodied in the way in
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which he appeared. the body is portrayed in these casts and ultimately and the thing that makes lincoln a wig is the sense of wig progress. lincoln is the only president to receive a patent. which is nice for me and nice for the portrait gallery. because the portrait gallery existed in the patent office building. this majestic building which is a symbol of american progress and takeoff in the american economy under the combined drive of the democracy, extension of the franchise working people, small farmers. the wig plan of henry clay which was appealing to lincoln as a
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rising man in springfield. he was a man on the make. he famously becomes a corporation lawyer, works for the railroads. the patent that he invents is particularly interesting because it was a way he had been up and down the mississippi. i don't think it worked. you can get a patent without your invention working. and this is a model that we have in the collection. you can see the label, a. lincoln. it was a way the mississippi or all rivers was famous for this sand bars and obstructions. what lincoln invented in this barge was a way of walking the boat over the sand bars. you would lower these and must have been like lincoln very strong and essentially shuffled the boat over the sand bar and
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move down the river. the channels lead to opportunity as jack kennedy would say a rising tide should lift all boats. lincoln creates this fascinating mechanism to allow the man to lift the boat and carry it down the river. i have always thought when grant wins the battle at the siege of vicksburg and new orleans during the civil war and lincoln writes that the father of waters runs unvexed to the sea i bet he thought about his patent that the point of america was to have the element of opportunity and discourse and openness and that the river should run free which is one reason i go back to the landscape. i go back to his notion that the south couldn't be allowed to
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leave the union because it was part of the sacred ground of the union. first pictures of lincoln getting his crew off the ground -- i need to address the element of lincoln's so-called homeliness. he was famously ugly supposedly. i spent a lot of time with lincoln and perhaps a form of stockholm syndrome, that he seems more and more attractive to me as we see in a minute. the thing that i was struck by when i looked at this is the very 1840s, this sense of style. what i noticed was the hooded eyes, the sense of inwardness. it's difficult with the long exposure times. you don't get people smiling in
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19th century photographs. lincoln is picturing himself. he is still a bad dresser. he has this incredible tie. we have been talking about what colors -- they are black and white photographs. what did he wear? he universally would wear black. i'm struck again and i come back to the inwardness of the eye, the dreaminess of the boy reading by the river and a politician was masking his intentions behind jokes. again, with lincoln there is this sense of an understanding of who he was. however, he came to that understanding and would not reveal himself even as he had hidden in photographs. he is famous for using jokes and witticism to distract people. they think he is a fool.
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they think he is a buffoon. and lincoln is using jokes and country folk tales -- first of all, it is national democratic politics. might not like those jokes but the people did. it was a way of connecting with the public in a way that lincoln connected with the public when he is elected captain. but the homeliness becomes something that lincoln was more than happy to use to his advantage. opinions differ. everybody's spouse is the best looking person that they ever met. we all know that. i think the same thing with lincoln. he did not have the smoothness as we will see of the eastern politicians, but lincoln was -- a famous occasion where lincoln responds by saying my opponent
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accuses me of being two faced. if i had another face would i wear this one? and that element here where he is using it, again, the humility is not completely forced. lincoln knew who he was and what he looked like. he was aware of that. it was something in terms of the smoothness that he could use to his advantage. women and lincoln share this curious connection. women come to idolize lincoln. this is amazing quote by whitman in one of his political tracks in 1856 called the 18th president. he misses lincoln by two. he welcomed a redeemer president in the united states who would
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come out of the real west, clearing the woods, the prairie, the hill side. he would be much pleased to see heroic shrewd, middle aged, beard faced american blacksmith or boatman come down from the west and walk into the presidency. i go back again to this sense of the west as the cradle of a democracy which whitman hits early on. whitman the great democratic poet who responded to lincoln's democracy but of course in the sense of the union. the union would be bound up in the bodies of individual american cities, that they would be exemplified by the bond that existed between each of us. here is lincoln early on, again, the photograph they process -- i'm jumping a little here. the other thing, of course, that we need to remember is that photography is just getting started. we don't have a complete record
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as you would today where the presidential candidates or celebrities are photographed incestantly. you had this episodic, they work their way into the archives and crop up again. lincoln, again, this element of advertisement for himself. he is in the wig party. they have a deal where they rotate offices. he is a one-term congressman. he goes back home and clearly as he puts it in the context of the presidential race says he must admit that the taste is in my mouth. this element of ambition and his secretary says the little engine of ambition knew no rest. the people who knew him best saw
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this furnace, this burning, this ambition to escape his nonexistence, his nonperson hood as the son of his farmer, invisibility of fate where if you didn't succeed you would disappear somewhere into the dark fields of the republic. this i think is a wonderful photograph. done a series done by the springfield mafia running the career where they identify him as a coming man, a charismatic figure working his way into national prominence. in those days the congressional elected senators it depended on who controlled the delegation. nonetheless this element of
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verbal combat where lincoln is beginning to stake a claim, making a name and the springfield david davis, joshua speed, his backers in illinois start to commission photographers. so his name would be known. again, we are dealing with a society in which people didn't know what other people looked like. i read this incredible anecdote where zachary taylor who wins the wig nomination for the presidency in 1850 and wins the presidency and defeats henry clay. clay didn't know what zachary taylor looked like. the element of the size of the country and distance between people and lack of imagery as photography is coming on not until the 20th century and now with google we are all to our
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detriment you can look at yourself. but that was not the case in 1850. what is happening is photography is a way that you can have images made. a way in which ordinary americans wasn't cheap but wasn't expensive and certainly wasn't as controlled as oil painting. photography begins the service from high school year books and wedding photographs and keepsakes for loved ones. what lincoln in particular in the process here along with wallet whitman are the two people in america who realize photography is a way of molding your personality and presenting it. women have famously, his photograph almost as much as lincoln and women realize and whitman was a shape shifter. you didn't have to strike the
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same pose. longfellow had one pose. you see this pose when he is aging and gray it's the same pose. and whitman is experiencing with how he looked. he is wearing a hat, not wearing a hat. he is wearing a loose shirt. he is wearing a poet shirt and this element of adapting to circumstance which lincoln will use in a slightly different way to indicate the evidence of his circumstances as he moves into prominence and moves into the white house and as he fights for the civil war. what he is leaving behind, this is our life mask of abraham lincoln done just before he was inaugurated. this is the older less malleable technology. i have shown you the portraits. this is the older technology
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where in order to obtain an absolutely accurate depiction of somebody you would have a life mask taken. either an entrepreneur or sculptorer would come to your house or to studio and they do a reverse mold and this would be anything from a kind of madame tussaud's to classical sculpture. thomas jefferson was nearly killed in 1819 when a man came to the retired president's plantation and started chatting with jefferson with the plastic plauk on jefferson's head to lost track of the time. jefferson nearly suffocated. he was too pilot to rip the plaster off. finally they realized and jefferson's daughters came in.
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they were convinced -- they were going to sue him. this element of danger. this is older technology as opposed to this. i'm going back a little bit to another photograph. this is the one that the springfield guys put -- a bug -- the springfield guys put together for lincoln. the features, lincoln tie is better in this one. what you have again the distant far searching gaze which you read into, of course. and you begin to see, of course, the development of lines. it's well to remember how young lincoln was. he was born in 1809. he is 56 when he dies. he is growing into manhood before our very eyes and affected by tremendous circumstances of wanting a career that will move into the law, into politics and then into office. and this is the photograph that
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did it for him. one thing, also, i have to say that we have a difficult time doing this with powerpoint. sizing powerpoint to the actual scale so that the portraits exist in relationship to each other is very difficult. this is very small as the name speaks. it is a visiting card. it is about that big. and they were the most. there is no film. technology is evolving but they haven't invented film. this complicated process of chemical and visual stimulation that you had a glass plate to take the negative and you take the print from it and if you
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wanted a little picture. and i was doing it. they didn't know what film was. this is the famous portrait that lincoln says, this is the photograph that made me president. lincoln is running. the taste is iphis mouth. he is seen as second american party. this breaks down into regional party. the republican party rises. lincoln going back to the free soil free labor ideology of his youth, sweat of your face that you should be rewarded for the work that you do, gravitates from the destroying the wig party which is collapsing into the new republican party which combines elements of the democratic jackson coalition with the wigs.
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but he still is not known and accepts in 1859 an invitation to come to the church and give a speech about whatever he wanted. the crisis was growing. the dissolution of the union was not. what they really wanted, they wanted to know what lincoln looked like. they wanted to hear him. lincoln goes and buyathize suit. the suit is getting better. he goes to the studio on madison avenue and had his portrait taken. he then goes to the union and delivers this incredible and to our constitutional scholars can understand the speech. ordinary mortals like historians cannot unless you immerse yourself into the culture. it is complicated, well run speech about why it's
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unconstitutional for the south to secede. so lincoln convinces everybody. they had to take him seriously as a candidate and establishes that. more importantly because of the popular politics of all of this brady takes his photograph which republican campaign, this is a society that -- two things in the 19th century because they hadn't invented professional sports yet. there is religion and politics where the two organizing devices that galvanized local communities in incredible ways that we can't understand now from participation rates in voting to participation rates in church going to participation rates in political activities. and the republican party in particular coalescence of wigs and democrats led by lincoln creates modern campaigning. this is one of my favorite
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items. it is a tiny political pin. it is the same picture of lincoln. the other thing you could edit in a very light way the photograph. you will notice that lincoln's face is smoother. the hair is smoothed out. they haven't quite invented photo shop but you can see it on the horizon. what the republican party did is ordered thousands and hired some intern to cut little ovals and put them inside these really nice wooden painted gold ovals and create ad political pin using a photograph from my knowledge for the first time. you could literally wear lincoln on your sleeve and demonstrate your allegiance in the way that didn't require the old way of a more or less accurate illustration. there was the man.
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there was lincoln on your lapel. proudly proclaim your allegiance to abraham lincoln. it was a little thing that is just amazing to me. this is the beginning of modern media campaign with lincoln and republican party adapting to all of this. i'm throwing this in again because the older world of the car cuture and newspaper didn't disappear. you could not print a newspaper or anything printed with a photograph. photo journalism was in the process of being invented but hadn't come about. this i just like this. this is lincoln. he has gotten elected. it is lincoln with a purported assassination plot. they get him in. they settle lincoln in early in the morning instead of later in the day.
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he was ridiculed for this. you notice the really nice touch of the scared ecat. the union begins to break up. here we are with compliments. he is in washington work frg brady at the time. this is lincoln arrived in washington. there is this element of the photograph. it bears witness to lincoln's presence and his moving to the job. lege legendarily lincoln is sort of hiding his right hand. supposedly it was swollen shaking hundreds of thousands of hands. i think that is a myth. i think it is a nice story and i don't mind retelling it. this is a fairly conventional piece and now the other thing that needs addressing is he is
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growing the beard. whitman talked about a bearded man coming out of the west. lincoln grows the beard between the election and inauguration. imagine if a president was changing the looks like grew a beard between the election. the talk shows would be doing that 24/7 in terms of what it meant. what i think it meant for lincoln and i go back to the notion the way lincoln was cutting things off is he was putting aside childish things. he noticed where half the south is out of the union and there is an element here that he is toughening up. i like hockey and the way in which hockey players grow a beard that there is a testosterone element here of the tribesman returning to a slightly more primitive stage here. what lincoln is really doing is
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this is the first big break for lincoln that you have. the dreamy youth and rising politician who is getting harder. we have become accustomed to his face but now you see a new face. lincoln is reinventing himself. he is beginning to think about what he is going to do with this crisis. lincoln is inaugurated. gardner goes to the capital and takes this great outdoor photograph. this is lincoln's famous memory speech, the inauguration in which he is trying to keep the union together. what he appeals to is the cords of memory which tie us to each and every patriot grave is revolutionary inherrance, foundation of american democracy in the revolution. he is begging the south, if you
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will, to remember that shared inheritance and find common ground. of course, it doesn't work. just the opposite. lincoln's words follow deaf ears. the south takes the election as black republican, double connotation of pi ratical aspects of republicans u surping power and the identification of abraham lincoln with black people that he was concerned with welfare of african-americans. this double whammy leaves lincoln so the war came. and the war proceeds. i'm bringing in this not portrait. this is beginning of battlefield journalism with alexander gardner who is beginning in the same way photography widens the
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sphere of who can have a photograph taken or a portrait made. gardner does is she is specializing in portrait photograp photography -- gardner takes his camera out. there was no infrastructure to take care of the troops. no dog tags, no registration and gardner takes the camera and brings back these horrifying scenes of american casualties. we remain a nation the display of american casualties.
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it would be courteous and out of the window as people begin to realize the consequences of industrial death and driven home. the "new york times" has editorial about the photographs where they say these photographs have a terrible distinctness that if he has not brought the war to our very houses and parlors and streets he has done something like it. this is a huge change in american culture that leads in all kinds of ways from the way that we mourn, the way that we worship and the way we think about language and culture. leads people to an entire
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emotional and cultural change. we are in concert with gardner lincoln goes out to find out what mcclellan is doing. he doesn't pursue him. lincoln is desperate to find a general to pursue and here is lincoln -- lincoln, i think, had to wear the stove pipe hat as a gesture to the fact that i'm really tall. instead of minimizing the height -- of course, the election with douglas not called little giant for nothing because he was only about 5'1". so here lincoln is powering over little mack, the little napoleon. pound for pound probably the most egotistical man in american history. this where mcclellan and he thought lincoln was a fool and treated him rudely.
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lincoln, one virtue i like about him is he is patient and says mildly if you are not using your army may i borrow it. mcclellan being obtuse didn't get it. he felt like it was just a joke. lincoln, of course, fires him. this is not the meeting in which lincoln fires mcclellan. in october '62. i am showing this picture because the camera was big. it was cumbersome. there is a process that you had to do. gardner was manipulating. he couldn't manipulate the camera that easily. he was taking himself out and getting the beginnings of photo journalism. what lincoln is doing here, again, lincoln doesn't talk as much as we think he did.
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partly because of the quality is really high. he famously -- famously on occasions where there was a serenade he would tell the crowd i appreciate it but i'm not going to speak. he would say a few remarks and then ask the band to play and then leave. what he is doing and using photography and this is the opposite of whitman. whitman was posing, changing his pose and his affect and his clothing. lincoln is doing is indexing himself to the american people. he is using photography as a measure that as so many americans were fighting and dying, as the homefront was suffering more and more, murg s and fathers mourning their lives and ebb and flow of war time. lincoln used photography and was always getting photographed by gardner and the other photographers in washington t. was a way of showing he was on
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duty. all photographs by gardner were for sale. you could go and see them. lincoln was having his photograph taken because what you begin to see and this is where we are beginning to transition to the posthumous lincoln. you see the wear and tear on lincoln's body. an art critic said by 1863 you can see the way the clothes are just hanging off him. he has the nice suit still but look at the face. look at the way in which he is very well groomed in this picture. there is something that is haunting, the eyes are no longer as dreamy. they are beginning to stare. there is the famous vietnam phrase, the thousand yard stare. he is staring at industrialized warfare. gardner takes more pictures, ramming home the point if you
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didn't need the casualty list it would appear the photographs of dead soldiers, their bodies stripped. they are not wearing shoes. these are union casualties and shoes stripped by scavengers, field of gettysburg. again lincoln is stressed that meade will not pursue lee as vigorously. this is my favorite lincoln. this is cut down full faced image november 8, 1863. there is this hardening element which gardner captures perfectly. gardner was a great photographer. this photograph is more of the war hawk. it's full frontal. it's not that slightly oblique angle that lincoln usually posed
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in. there is a fierceness to it. it is like looking into the barrel of a gun. this is a really interesting moment in american political culture. it is november 8. lincoln had been invited to gettysburg. and famously lincoln is not the main to get into the cemetery t. is the star attraction, star order in the north. everett being the star hoarder and because you couldn't hear that well he preprinted his remarks. and his remarks were not really remarks. they are two hours long. it is an incredibly long address. we know -- this is the thing that historians love when the facts -- it rarely happens. lincoln goes down to gardner's studio. we know he was reading the address in the studio.
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and i believe again because i think lincoln was a political genius in the way that he mastered campaigning and invented the campaign pin and also in terms of what was expected in terms of breaking the mold. and i am convinced that lincoln sat there. lincoln did not write the gettysburg address on the train up to gettysburg. he had been thinking about it a lot and the course ofrt war. and i am convinced that he sat there and said to mimself being the sly dog you are going to give him two hours. i'm going to give you two minutes. he constructs the gettysburg address even in the context of remarks. nobody is going to stop the president from speaking. i will take these two minutes and use them because the other thing that he does and we know this again because it is in a diary, all of the gettysburg pictures were up in gardner's
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studio. as lincoln is sitting there he is surrounded by images that we just saw. this is a similar visual recapitulation of a battlefield. and i am convinced this is when lincoln begins to construct the gettysburg address where he says nothing we do or say here can consecrate more than those who fought and died here to create the new birther freedom. this is another. this is where he cuts the cord with the past. this is when he asks for new birth of freedom. he cuts new birth loose from precedent and issues about the union and secession and everything that had gone from 1776 to 1861. lincoln says new birth of freedom will be new birth of politics. it is no longer a war for union but a war for freedom. he does that in large part
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because of the dialogue that he was constructing in hes own head between what he wanted to do and what he saw in the terrible pictures. this level of indexing, looking haphazard here. you have this in your collection here this great photograph of lincoln. this is the picture that is on the penny. and again lincoln and profile. this weird one, a country that is beginning to discover visual imagery. and creates a 3 d image. and we are back here with that's
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why he looks strange. this is his official family. i work in washington in a large bureaucracy. and you have to look -- lincoln ran the war with two secretaries at the war office. i commend him. they are the two closest observers of lincoln and call him the tycoon. even people who knew him very well thought he was mysterious and strange and unfathomable. they never could figure it out.
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what is the tycoon up to now. they were trying to get a handle on him. so we are now reaching the end. february 1865. this again the smile on lincoln's face. fad who is developmentally challenged only lived to 18. posing this little with tad lincoln. survived barely the death of his son who dies early in the war. i had a poet in the gallery two weeks ago fascinated with lincoln. i asked why he became interested in lincoln. steve said as a young father he was desperately afraid for his children. he identified with lincoln. this image about lincoln running the war at the same time as he endured the loss of his son and the problems. he said it was -- for lincoln he
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says it was like trying to perform brain surgery while a dog is attacking your leg. physical pain that lincoln had to endure and indexed on his face. notice the shadows. notice the hair. what we are moving to, this is earlier, the lines on the face becoming greater. the hands gnarled. look at the suit the way it falls off him. and we are up to '65 where lincoln is reelected on the balcony above him lincoln is down below with a paper in his hands, a distant portrait. on the balcony is john wilkes booth who is beginning to stalk lincoln. the two gentlemen in gray are possibly lewis powell and one of the other conspirators.
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he was after him. he originally had a plot to kidnap lincoln. when he discovers that lincoln will give votes to qualified african-americans he says that's it. i will run him through. the february 5 -- gardner said it was thought to be the last sitting. this is an early paparazzi photograph. this photograph vagaled his way into the white house. when he went he said go get your dad. a rather exasperated lincoln takes time out from writing the address in which he does look peevish. the eyes disappear the presence in the public. suffering that we are dealing with in this photograph by gardner, the ruins of the south,
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the ruins of the confederacy. the north wanted to see the south beat and wanted to see them beaten badly. gardner is serving that appetite. lincoln is faced with the prospect of binding up the nation's wounds with malice towards none and charity towards all. here the last sitting with lincoln with a very haggard face. again, when lincoln went in to sit he had several photographs taken from the little cart at about the same time he had this life mask taken and people when they see this think it is a death mask because it is white and the eyes are closed although the eyes would have been covered. the beard is there. the cadaver s element suggests
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somebody who is dead. there is an anticipation. this is about the same time as this. i'm moving to a close here. this is the famous plate. in some point in the development process probably when gardner heated the plate to pull the image you had to heat the chemical mixture before you applied the paper. it cracked. the myth was that it was dropped and that would have just destroyed the plate. these are fragile items. there are only two surviving imperial plates. this is a large format. gardner looked at this print and said that's not any good and threw away the plate. it wasn't reusable. so there is only one crack plate image. it's not in very good condition. we only show it rarely. this is a moment because what we are looking at is lincoln in
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february where war is won but he knows he has to win it. he is thinking about the inauguration and speech. he is thinking about reconstruction. and dealing with the social problems of emancipation and freedom. he is looking forward to the second term. he is melancholic because he is very tired. you can see that in this photograph. there is some dispute about this that if you notice the shoulders are out of focus the left eye doesn't have the usual crispness and clarity of gardner's documentary. seems to be disappearing into itself. the hair is grizzled and distant. if you are metaphorical you can read the crack as booths bullet and you can read it as a union being bound up in the body of abraham lincoln.
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what we know is that lincoln is looking forward to the future. and we know he is going to die. this is the actual lincoln we have seen in these photographs growing from nothing into something into my mind the greatest american president prosecuting the war and enduring the simultaneous end to the war and his assassination within a week. this is where i do believe in the world that the death of lincoln changes everything. what we begin to do two months before lincoln's assassination we begin to look at what will happen. everything that we know that happens after the night and projecting backwards from living figure into a myth logical figure, it was noted, of course, immediately in this highly religious society that lincoln was shot. when lincoln dies the next
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morning secretary of war says now he belongs to the ages or alternatively now he belongs to the angels. there is the sense of -- this bad, horrifically portrait of lincoln. this early sense of editing of these weird angels is taking lincoln to heaven to be greeted and combining with george washington, the founder and preserver of the union combine together in heaven, this substaniation which -- i chose this because it is so terrible. there were many others that were more fine art productions rather fine depictions in what was in everybody's mind is that
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everything had changed with this portrait, that lincoln was present to us. and when lilac's last [ inaudible ] where two very different takes on abraham lincoln which one is lincoln at the present moment in the middle of the victorian century of the my captain your trip is done, this victorian melodrama and then the world that lincoln was responsible for and whitman embodied in american verse when lilac's allegorical poem for the body of abraham lincoln, the
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great star in the west. and the theme of the great whitman poem that exists, the tallying bird that the little thrush that appears at various points in the action and whitman's mourning and the tallying bird is the thing that connects people beyond the grave. the denotion of tallying with coffin of unnamed president, great star who is dipped. the tallying bird is the way in which the present keeps track of the past. ultimately unknowable process we have seen play out in the work of abraham lincoln not just in his political life but in the combination between his life and utilization of photography as a way to make what he knew to be a mysterious process formation and personality of abraham lincoln and actions in this world in
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which he appears to us at the same time the tallying bird fails at his job is that lincoln remains present to us but ever illusive and withdrawing and disappearing. somehow unaccountable to us even as we begin to try to understand america's greatest president. thank you. [ applause ] brian has eagerly addressed my willingness to take questions. if there are questions feel free.
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if there are no questions thank you all -- there is a question. thank you, sir. you don't like to have an invitation turned down. >> i noticed no photographs on the brief and undistinguished military portion of lincoln's career. did he minimize that aspect of his background in his political -- >> he used it for his advantage. i'm sorry if i didn't convey that correctly. when lincoln was joking he was always serious. that interesting psychological tick. this is one thing that what i like about lincoln because we have lost the capacity for irony and self-dep riication, particularly presidential candidates. they talk too much and are much too [ inaudible ] what lincoln
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does, he was in the black hawk war. he rallied to the volunteers. he became an office holder. he was popular. part of his grass roots campaign to become someone. what he did was instead of puffing this up as many other 19th century candidates did instead of i won the black hawk war single handedly, he minimizes it. he turns it into a slightly -- deflects attention from it. he was a volunteer for a couple of months. and it wasn't a situation where a legend grows. what lincoln was doing was this jujitsu that he used in the gettysburg address where here is
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the established rhetoric. i will be in public and poke mild fun at my service and it worked for him. i don't know if that answers your question. that is how i'm seeing it. >> i'll jump in with a quick one. in our research we found that lincoln supposedly was the most photographed president of the 19th century and fredrick douglas the overall most photographed. lincoln led such a short life professionally. how could it be that -- was he using the photographers that extensively and why didn't other presidents? >> again, it's the sort of thing that seems obvious to us now. lincoln and whitman understand quickly that the medium is plastic, it's mobile. it allows you -- it's rapid.
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it's fast. it can keep up with current events as we saw with the battlefield pictures and the almost journalistic photo oppictures of him and mcclellan. there is element of visibility that lincoln exploits. we don't know how. lincoln was interested in technology as his patent indicates. he was interested in the process of war. and there was something about it that made it attractive to him. i suppose you could say if you want to be malicious you could say lincoln was egotist and liked to look at himself. i don't think it is the case but that he wanted to be visible to the public. fredrick douglas is an interesting side case, parallel case to lincoln. i think douglas probably just
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because he lived longer, but was having his photograph taken because photography allowed you to make people visible. more dramatically with the case of the freed people and particularly douglas as he moves into his career as anti-slavery and abolitionist, the element of bearing witness that here is a african-american man leaking abolitionist fight. there is this visibility of the cause that goes along with douglas's words. words and images. >> thank you for your speech tonight. i think if nixon had heard this in 1959 he might have been president earlier. it seems today that twitter and facebook and photo shop that is used to kind of form images for all of us. my question is without having to
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go into a whole other lecture is following on lincoln's example, his developing use of photography, did that continue on in a strong way after him? >> that's the key. and you the career of alexander gardner. he invents the career of war correspond. what happens here, and that we're awash in a sea of images, images are ubiquitous. overwhelmed. the verbal is turning into the visual. now we have a situation where visual trumps -- oh, a pun. completely trumps -- that was totally inadvertent. i'm a federal employee i can't make political statements. it wipes it out. without getting into the details of the history of photography, the sense in which photography can be faked and manipulated becomes important. yeah, sir?
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>> the images that we see seem to be coming from two or three photograph photographers, how did lincoln control access to the other photographers that wanted to take his pictures? >> you had to -- they had -- except for the alexander at the end where the guy ambushes lincoln by going through tad, it still is pretty structured. there are people -- despite that guerilla intervention. it's one of the reasons i included it. it didn't happen that cameramen -- they couldn't afford to put somebody outside the white house gate and hope to capture them walking to a railway station. there is drawing of abe and mary walking to the railway station. it was too cumbersome to move the photographic apparatus around. it's a client relationship here in which there was a kind of
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complicity where i mean lincoln kept these photographs. he paid for them. it wasn't an official white house photographer. he paid gardner. and the deal would be -- gardner probably cut him a deal because gardner could then sell the photographs in the same way he would take photographs of celebrities or theater people and he would do it as a form of advertise adverti advertisement. thereu wasn't a situation where -- i don't know the mechanism where if you wrote lincoln a letter and said can i photograph you, i think it probably happened. and there weren't that many photographers. there's brady studio and gardner splits off from brady in 1862. we have very few wartime southern photographs.
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it's a kind of process of being inventive. the camera itself isn't flexible enough you could sit outside the white house and snap paparazzi pictures. yes? >> i was curious, if you believe that the afluence of his wife, mary, had anything to do with the amount of pictures he had done, she said he did pay for them personally? that was my first question. >> i'm sorry the what of mary? >> the affluence of his wife. >> no, i don't think so. again, i would like to know more about the mechanism by which these were -- there are no personal or business papers from alexander gardner. they're all lost. you'd like to find that diary entry in which he says, you know, received of a lincoln $5. i don't know how much he drew on mary's mother. >> do you know which image was when they created the images at
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mount rushmore? >> i think it might be a compilation. i don't want to guess. i think we have one over there. i'm trying to be fair to the left and right here. >> thank you. i've heard somewhere there was a childhood injury to one eye of abraham lincoln that causes this mystical asymmetry of his face. >> to be honest i've never heard that. here's the other things in terms of the body of abraham lincoln. and the mystery is that we're always trying to find -- you may well be right. you've read it. i just haven't heard it. we always try to find a solution to abraham lincoln. there's a key. and because we're a nation that, you know, since world war ii we've become obsessed with
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therapy or medical explanations. there are all kinds of explanations, of course in 19th century terms he was melancholic which means today he was depressive. if he had been on prozac we would have ended the war faster. i had not heard the eye injury story. sir? >> quick question about the technology of the day. how long would the subject have to remain still in order to create a sharp image and get a good exposure. >> the cliche is you had -- they did use a brace for portrait studio photographs. gardner would ask people to be still. we're coming down to five to seven seconds. it's coming way down. and the photographs, the cabinet card cameras, you needed a little camera for the little picture and a bigger camera as you moved up in size. it's becoming faster.
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and i, again, because i enjoy the alexander gardner show i put on, the photographs and the way in which gardner is really beginning to make the camera mobile. i have the sense with gardner, if only he had the technology he could invent the modern, you know, nikon camera and he has to manipulate the cumbersome -- you couldn't hand hold the camera it had to be in a tripod which mitigates against the ambush shots of them walking out. >> my question would be, would gardner's battlefield photos were they staged? >> you anticipate what gardner did at gettysburg. this is an -- you've got three -- my gardner shots shows in the middle of march.
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if you can get to washington, it's worth looking at the photographs. the main drive, you've hit upon the an titam is a really small -- relatively small battlefield. he moves his camera in one or two spots. the shots find themselves. what you anticipate is what he did at gettysburg which is this blight which -- this is an entirely lecture so i'll make this quick. he manipulated the titles of his shots where he associated them erroneously and fraudulently with major figures who died on a spot where in fact it's just, if you will, the ordinary casualties of the ordinary soldier. he associates them with generals like john reynolds. but then what he does is the famous rebel sharp shooters or notorious rebel sharp shooter series where he and his
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assistants pull a georgia infantryman out of the burial line and move him 70 yards and manipulate the corpse and create this four shot visual tableau. it's a complete fraud and wasn't discovered in the 1960's, a forensic historian found the -- by examining hundreds of gettysburg photographs the soldier who happears in a previous photograph of the line of dead being ready to be buried. what gardner, the very moment at which photography is claiming absolute truth and which lincoln is using it again, to deal with a way in which his face looks, the emotional state, gardner
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starts to create an uncertainty about the accuracy of the image we live with today. the ongoing debate, you know, is it real, is it photo shopped, is it staged. if you know the history of photography you know there's a famous report at the moment of a death where he's christ like. he's laid out and the bullet takes him. was that just the luckiest shot in the world by cameraman or was it staged? gardner, at the very moment he's inventing war photo journalism he destabilizes it. that's a great question. it was gettysburg not antetime. >> thank you. wait a minute, the -- >> to what extent did lincoln's death and mourning, was it like publicly memorialized by photographs? >> one of the things that happened was there were a
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tremendous number of fakes. there's the competition to get what everybody wanted, mucobly was lincoln in the coffin. none of those exist. what happened is -- you can't overstate the extent of the deepness of the way in which amerans mourned. and the cataclysm of having lincoln assassinated and killed at the very moment of union victory with this. it's emotion which just psychologically both individually and collectively in our consciousness just wiped people out. there's this intense overbearing grief which gets played out in victorian terms with huge black draping buildings all in black. and the body of lincoln is projected into our imaginations
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of our photographs. lincoln disappeared. i guess i should have been fair and shown one of the better pictures. you have an attempt to come to grips with him in religious terms by him rising, going to heav heaven. what you have is photography disappearing for a while. you have a certain amount of landscape photography where there's a famous pictures that was discovered -- not famous because it was discovered alexandlast year. somebody in new york has a blurry image of what appears to be the funeral cortege when the body was taken from washington. the body becomes invisible. it's no longer photographs, it's put in a coffin. mary refuses to have lincoln buried in washington. she hates washington. she takes the body back to springfield. there's this long process in which the body is embalmed and taken from city to city and displayed. and the body in an open coffin.
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that's where the people were trying to get shots of the body in the coffin and those are disputed and i think 99% are faked. the body begins to decompose. there's this whole sort of religious, you know, relics of the saints or aspects of the true cross. it only adds to the whole kind of religious -- i'll have to say st stereo of the public. the body disappears but it becomes all the more mythologized. photography doesn't pick up. going back to one of the earlier questions, photography then becomes part of the landscape. no president really uses it, grant, until later in the century. when somebody like teddy roosevelt. teddy, of course, who had -- a bully personality was always
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having himself photographed. by then you could print photographs in the newspaper and teddy took full advantage of that. thank. >> thank you. >> thank you, again. i see brian lurking in the wings. [ applause ] >> thank you again, david. for a very good presentation, very interesting one. and as david has suggested and i did earlier. if you have a chance to get to washington, the gardner exhibit is worth the trip. i would like to ask sister diane to make presentation to david we hope he'll take with him. step out and we hope we'll get a photograph of this. something to -- what sister is giving david at this point is a
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framed copy of an oil painting of lincoln. the original copy of which now hangs in the abraham lincoln presidential library and museum in springfield, illinois. and we here at the university of the st. mary have a limited reproduction of this in our collection, it's beautiful and it certainly is unique. thank you again. [ applause ] i'd like to thank the lincoln event committee for organizing tonight's gathering and add my special thanks to pete payne for his support of this annual program. as you leave the theater be sure to stop by the walnut room and there are people who can guide you to the next floor to view special pieces from our lincoln
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collection as well as to join us for a reception. thank you again for joining us. we hope to see you again next year. [ applause ] american history tv tonight includes the three previous programs on the history of photography. at 8:00 eastern social reformer and photojournalist jacob reese's work is examined. it's a look at vietnam photography as two talk about their work. abraham lincoln's life through photographs that's tonight on american history tonight airing this week during the republican national convention. >> we're going to wrap up today's washington journal talking with tom troy's reporter with the toledo blade about day three here in the buckeye state. tell our viewers what are you going to be watching for first
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of all tonight? >> well, one of the things we're most interested in in ohio is any signs of the john kasich group becoming more accepting of the trump nomination. actually endorsing trump. i don't know if that's going to happen. i think the convention delegates from ohio are hoping to now pivot and support donald trump. they came here supporting john kasich. that's one -- >> they were bound to do so? >> they were pledged to kasich in the march 15th primary. so of course the nomination changed all that last night. now the focus of the convention is on donald trump. there's no -- not going to be anymore john kasich nomination in this election. we're following that closely. >> and are there any rumors that governor kasich may make today the day that he says, okay, i'm behind the nominee sne. >> no. no. i have heard no rumors like that. i know he's speaking to the new hampshire delegation today.
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some people think he's actually laying the ground work for a future run of the presidency. >> is that up setting to some in the ohio delegation? >> when you ask them about it the typical response is that's the governor he's going to do what he wants to do. he's his own man and we support him. typical response we get. >> do they feel punished by the party and by donald trump's campaign because of what the governor has said and that punishment playing out in their seating inside the queue? >> that was their response. i had one of the delegates use a barn yard epithet for the seating arrangements. when you get in there and see where they are, it's not that bad. they're one group back from the stage. and it's probably just as well, i mean, they sat through the entire proceedings last night. and they most of them left pretty early. so i think the optics wouldn't have looked good for donald
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trump if they had been in an up front seat. maybe they were looking ahead to that. >> they're kind of sitting off to the side and then behind the indiana delegation. >> right. right. >> indiana, will hear from their governor tonight along with the other republicans in that from governor mike pence. >> right. >> what do you think the state of ohio wants to hear, needs to hear those republicans from governor pence? >> probably some assurance that the presidential campaign will be presidential. drop some of the divisive language, some of the derogatory remarks about different ethnic groups. adopt a more moderate presidential tone. that's what i've been hearing from delegates. you know, john kasich kind of set the tone for that. that's why he's been withholding his endorsement. i heard from a delegate, betty montgomery a former state attorney general she is withholding her commitment to trump. she said she's not going to vote for hillary clinton.
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but she wants to see what he has to say. what mike pence has to say. it's not really up to mike pence. it's up to donald trump. >> what do they want to hear from him thursday night? >> they want to hear that he's going to bring the country together. i think. >> what is it looking like hypothetically in a general election matchup between donald trump and hillary clinton in november in ohio? >> in ohio? the polls have shown, the most recent polls show that they're neck and neck at 41%. among ohio registered voters. leaving 18% to 20% undecided. those i guess are the independent voters. assuming 41% is solid that's what you see the race for, to get over 50%. so ohio being the critical swing state, probably see huge amount of spending, huge amount of advertising trying to reach those voters.
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the focus will be on trade, the economy, those are the major issues in ohio. >> let's get to calls. matilda has been waiting, democrat matilda good morning to you. what's your question or comment here as we continue here on the washington journal from cleveland? good morning. >> caller: thank you. i have a couple of quick comments. i believe the republican party uses veterans as a prop to express their patriotism. all people have to do is look at the congressional record and see all the bills that they blocked and manipulated, including the latest zika virus where they decreased funding for veterans by $500 million and then cried foul when the democrats wouldn't pass it. my main purpose for calling is policy. where is the policy? where are the issues being addressed? the poverty in this country. the educational problems, the environment, why aren't they
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trying to make democracy more accessible to all citizens? i just don't -- >> matilda, i want to take up your point of policy, first night was make america safe again. last night was make america work again. tonight it's make america first again. what's behind that theme? >> well, i'm not exactly sure except it's designed to sound like make america great again. the main thing you hear every night from the speakers is how bad of a president hillary clinton would be. we're starting to hear that barack obama wasn't as bad as what's coming. so the focus has been all been on hillary clinton. i think regardless of what, you know, theme they give to the night, yeah, there's people who want to see some policy prescriptions, some specifics from the trump team. and it's not been hugely
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forthcoming yet. >> all right. theodore in bronson, texas, republican. >> caller: yes. >> good morning. >> caller: good morning. i would like to say that governor kasich's not participating in this convention is just asking for demonstrations. as for the bushes and people put them in the position they are in, and they are now asking them to support the people's choice. i think it is beneath them to act the way they are. and, finally, people that profess to be christians are acting badly. thank you. >> okay. she mentions governor kasich, go ahead and take that. and also another challenger to donald trump, is senator ted cruz who will be speaking this evening. >> we're all going to be very interested to see what senator
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ted cruz has to say about donald trump, how strong of an endorsement he'll give. the fact that he's speaking tonight would indicate that he is, you know, in support of donald trump and will say so in this convention. as far as john kasich, you know, he set himself apart during the elections -- during the campaign as a candidate who was more compassionate, more moderate, and towards the end of the campaign he actually sharpened his rhetoric against donald trump. he found his positions to be disturbing, his positions on immigration and muslims, on security in europe and in the middle east. so towards the end of the campaign, what had been a relatively friendly relationship between the two of them deteriorated and he became more strong in his opposition. he's maintained that position.
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so whether he's ever going to come out and endorse the trump candidacy i don't know. he's given no indication he's going to. >> david, in north carolina, independent, hi david. >> caller: hi, thanks to cspan and your guest. just a couple things i try to keep them short. you know, i learned last night from the convention that las vegas is the capital of novembenovembeevada. it's carson city for those who didn't know that. you know, i want to talk about the melania trump thing. i don't want to drill this. i'm not a hillary clinton supporter. i do not plan on voting for hillary clinton. i also don't plan on voting for donald trump. and the speech just shows about the level of integrity that these campaigns have. i don't think hillary clinton's folks have any integrity and i don't think that the folks who helped mrs. trump write this speech had any integrity, also. i think the people need to understand the level of integrity we're dealing with. i think to me i think trump is a
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manchurian candidate. this guy is going to get eaten alive during the debates. you look at all the missteps during the campaign. and, you know, people like john kasich, i would have voted for kasich and i voted democrat in the past. i'm an independent now. i would have voted for john kasich. it's people like kasich we needed to see running against hillary clinton. if for some reason republicans want to support him, support donald trump. this is going to be the biggest embarrassment. i'm 42 years old and i voted since bill clinton. this has got to be in my time the most embarrassing presidential election probably got to go down in history. what's your guy's thoughts? >> tom troy? >> well, melania trump's speech was a highlight of monday night. the delegates loved it. when they came to their daily breakfast on tuesday and learned about the allegations -- more than allegations, very apparent that a couple of paragraphs were lifted almost word for word from
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the michelle obama's speech back in 2008. their reaction basically was melania trump didn't write the speech. so you can't blame her for it. number two, she's not a public official, she's not -- she's a wife she's a potential first lady. she was expressing what she thought about her husband about his qualifications to be president. so they didn't feel she should be held to the same standard. now, at that time, there was an assumption that her speech writers had somehow written that in. after reporting some reporting yesterday that i read by the "new york times" i guess there's some question about whether it was the trump family itself that rewrote her speech. and then that would be placed under the category of amateur hour. >> by the way, a little bit more about senator ted cruz speaking tonight. "the new york times" says the senator and his allies have signaled he plans to present a
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vision for the party's future that bears little resemblance to mr. trump's with likely focus on conservative orthodoxy and constitutional principles as he casts an eye towards future aspirations, including another potential white house run. earlier today, ahead of his speech, senator cruz plans to thank delegates in the company of reporters, it says, at a separate event. george, alabama, democrat. hi, george. >> caller: way to go donald trump. i've been a democrat all my life what i've seen on the democratic side shocks me. they're overpricing on good and fuel. it's what choked the wages to the point where they weren't usable. i mean, when you try to compete wages with greed, you just can't do it. you can't raise wages to compete with greed. roll back the pricing. they say that donald trump is knocking muslim and mexicans. i've been watching a little bit
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of this and i'm not educated as everybody else. but what i hear the man saying is he wants to make sure the people coming in the country are safe for us. there's nothing wrong with that. i just want to say that mike pence comes to the field and makes it level. we've got some good people, john kasich, ted cruz, all them people, they're good people. they're already in position -- let's get behind donald trump. make him president and get this country rolling in the right direction. thank you, ma'am. >> you might be interested that donald trump will make another appearance tonight at the convention, he's going to be alongside mr. pence before he give -- mr. pence gives his vice presidential speech tonight. >> you know, i think we've heard from him every night. he came in by satellite feed last night. he's going to come in tonight. i think he feels it's important because he has to inject that
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trump energy into the convention. which some people had felt is not -- doesn't show the energy yet that a political nominating convention should have. >> by the way, more on tonight's lineup, ted cruz as we said. scott walker, newt gingrich, lar laura ingram, eric trump. claudia in florida, republican. >> caller: hi, greta. this is claudia from ormond beach, florida. i would like to make a comment about the speech that melania trump gave. just to let people know there's nothing new under the sun. all things have been said. all things have been paraphrased. i think she did a beautiful job. she's lovely. she has poise. she would make a beautiful first
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lady. anybody that tried to make anything out of the speech is just jealous. >> okay, claudia, who are you looking forward to hearing from tonight? >> caller: mike pence. >> you are? what do you want the governor to say? >> caller: i would just like to know more about him. when mr. trump picked him as his running mate, i felt it was a little bit of a push from the republican party. he looks a little bit aryan to me. forgive me for saying that. but i have to wait and hear what he has to say and make up my mind then. i'm enjoying the convention. thank you so much for cspan. >> all right. okay. claudia, what do you think governor mike pence's role will be for the state of ohio?
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>> well, he's from the neighboring state of indiana. we share a lot of characteris c characteristics with indiana being midwesterners. heavily industrial and agricultural. i think mike pence is there on the ballot because he has a certain gravitas and because he's respected by the right, by the conservative sections of the party. so i think he's there to reassure ohio voters -- not just ohio voters -- that there is a sober side to the trump campaign. >> ed in arizona, democrat, go ahead ed. >> caller: love your program. i know there's nobody from arizona called in yesterday. did they block it off? because sheriff joe was wonderful. he's -- >> it was kind of early in arizona for many people, ed, that's probably why.
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>> caller: probably. so he's cost billions of dollars in lawsuit in his political enemies he goes after them. he and the district attorney. i mean, you know, and people die in his prisons and there was also 6,000 child abuse cases that fell through the cracks under one of his detectives. you know, so, you know, sure he's tough, but he's not a saint by any means. >> okay, darlene in kansas. maryville kansas, a republican darlene we'll end with you. go ahead. >> caller: good morning. the other day, george w. bush wondered if there is ever going to be a republican president again. well, i as a republican never did vote for george w. because he went awol in the national guard and later on as the president he's the one that started a war. jeb thought he was a dynasty.
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he just was going to march right in there and they were just going to vote for him. be a nominee for president. he wanted trump to sign a pledge for conservative. and jeb is not a republican. jeb never won one single state. and on the other side, clinton and obama stood on the white house lawn, lying their heads off about the benghazi, being a video. can you imagine? lying to the people of the united states. hillary. lying to the parents of those four killed. trying to lie about the fbi, she lied to them. and lied to them. and all about her e-mails that's all she does is lie. how could -- >> all right, darlene, we have to end it there. we're wrapping up today's washington journal. tom troy, before we say
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good-bye, just preview thursday night for us? what are you going to be looking for and watching for on thursday night? the final night here of the republican convention? >> the republican convention that we've seen so far has been an outsider's convention. a lot of people who are not your typical republican office holders it's been noted by a lot of people. willie robertson, i don't watch "duck dynasty," he came in and said all you pundits and media leaks you missed the trump train you don't know people like us. this is an america that may be the republican party hasn't reflected as well as maybe it thought it did. and now they are the party. however, it takes a majority to win the election. and so it takes the state of ohio. no republican has ever been elected without carrying the state of ohio. you heard donald trump say last
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night i am going to carry ohio. so that seemed to be a head -- that seemed to be him sending a message to ohio i'm going to try to win you over, win your governor over. what i think people looking forward tomorrow night is the tone that donald trump is going to set for the general election. the primary season is now over. >> we will be watching tom troy, thank you very much for spending some time with us this morning. >> nice to be with you. >> good for you for coming and talking to our viewers, we appreciate it very much. >> thank you. cspan's convention coverage begins today live at 7:30 eastern. scheduled to speak are wisconsin governor scott walker marco rubio and ted cruz. newt gingrich and governor mike pence. making america first again is tonight's convention theme. again, live coverage starts at 7:30 eastern on cspan. you'll have a front row seat to every minute of the
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republican and democratic national conventions on cspan.org. watch live streams of the convention proceedings without commentary or commercials. use our video clipping tool to create your own clips of your favorite convention moments. and share them on social media. also, read twitter feeds from delegates and reporters in cleveland and philadelphia. our special convention pages have everything you need to get the most of cspan's gavel to gavel coverage. go to cspan.org/republicannationalcon vention and cspan.o cspan.org/democraticnational convention. it will be available for viewing on your desktop laptop and smartphone. all of cspan.org are a public service of your cable or satellite provider. so if you're a cspan watcher, check it out on the web at cspan.org. next art history professor
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curator and author bonny yochelson presents jake jacob r. during the early 20th century. the center for the book hosted the hour long event. thank you, everybody. i'm here to introduce bonny yochelson with whom i was lucky to work on the jacob riis book. she's made her long time home in new york city. she pursued a masters in art history from new york university. early in her career she was back
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in d.c. working at the print room of the national gallery of art. from 1987 to 1991 she was the curator of prints and photographs at the museum of the city of new york. and that's where she was first able to work with the jacob riis record of photographs. she's been an independent curator and photographic historical society. and since 1988 she has taught in the mfa program in the department of photography, video and related media at the school of visual arts in new york. where she curates the annual thesis show and surverves as a mentor. she has cureiated a number
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of -- and in 2010. she curiated our current exhibition along with our manuscript division which opened in a different format at the museum of the city of new york before opening here in april. it will travel to two locations in denmark. bonny is also the thauthor of my books, including changing new york, and a co-author of rediscovering jacob riis. she's written books on esther bubbly among other subjects. of course, bonny wrote the book we're all here for today. jacob a. riis. when she first began working many decades ago. riis was remembered as
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photographer. she has provided a much fuller picture of riis. journalist, author and social reformer who considered photographic as tool. by seeing the fuller picture, and by reading his articles, books lectures and the personal papers that are housed here at the library, we can better understand the issues that new york's other half actually faced. poverty, poor housing conditions, child labor, lack of access to education, homelessness, and disease. most if not all of these issues are still with us today in one form or another. which makes riis's work and bonny's more relevant than other. as an editor i have worked with a lot of different authors, since i have the stage, i want to take the opportunity to say what an absolute pleasure it was to work with bonny. and how much

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