tv Politics and Public Policy Today CSPAN September 7, 2016 4:30pm-7:01pm EDT
i apologize. >> we have a question. >> okay. >> hi. so when you go into black cat or you attend that kind, you walk into the vendor room, and in the vendor room you have -- everybody is like, we have zero day, which in hacker speak is a day too late, as we know, because it has already happened. that's, you know, the pre-day. when you ask all of these companies who are building these boxes and these defenses and all of that, you say, well, this is great, you've got everything that's already out there but what are you doing to create anything new? do you have your programmers working on, you know, what would be the variations or developing your own? in the military we call it a red cell event, where do you have anyone acting as a terrorist or a bad guy so you can build new technologies and actually get ahead of zero day? negative one day would be a good idea. every single one of these
companies, from the tiniest little guy to all of the big guys who have the latest in technologies that they charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for their box because it is the best say no. so how can you use this information or encourage these people to kind of, you know, wake up and start to apply these kinds of measures? i mean you're giving them the data. what does that overcome? you know, is it just an institutional mediocrity issue or, you know, is it just nobody cares? is it the value proposition? >> people definitely care. one of the things we noted is that it is a cat-and-mouse game. as soon as there's a defense created, a new counter measure or a new measure by defenders, attackers have a counter measure or they figure out a way to get around it. it is a constant back and forth, and i think vendors, cyber
security vendors are at a loss because they have to -- defenders in general have to try to protect every single hole or every vulnerability where attackers have to be right only once, they only have to try to figure out how to get around some mitigation or counter measure once. of course, if you go into the halls at these conferences, it is beautiful marketing fluff but, you know, it is marketing fluff. there's not always a lot of substance. one of the unfortunate things is that a lot of times tools for defensive measures are kind of a lemon market. it is all about how well you can sell it, and there's not a lot of metrics or reliability measures that they can go up against. in fact, you know, mccaffey and symantec aren't thought to be the best anti-virus systems but they win out with their marketing. what are companies doing these
days? a big shift is towards behavioral analytics or machine learning. a lot of people are trying to throw math behind trying to figure out different types of malware. malware can be -- can shift and it can have a lot of different forms. and so if you have a signature trying to detect one piece of malware, if you -- if it is just looking for that particular signature of that malware and that malware changes, then it can go past it. there are companies trying to figure out what are the fundamental characteristics of a piece of ma'am ware so if you don't have a signature for it you can understand the behavior or these elementary characteristics and stop that piece of malware. that's one thing, although how much of that is true, good algorithms and how much is marketing fluff. but i think more than anything it is this cat and mouse game where you're going to go back and forth, we're going to go back and forth until the end of time. >> i have a question here.
>> so given perhaps the pessimistic view, it seems that this is just going to be an ongoing cat-and-mouse game, i'm wondering about, okay, in that case how do individuals, especially if their digital identities are, number one, becoming bigger and bigger parts of our lives? number two, they're becoming more consolidated, so it seems there's a digital monopoly as far as identities go. if that's the case and if this hacking game is going to go on and on, what can individuals do? can they possibly be incentivized to take smarter measures? maybe cross words across different sites, i mean people don't do that, but there's good reason to. it is almost as if they feel a large part of their identities are so out of their hands, anything they do they're just helpless to do anything long term preventive about it.
>> sure. well, for most aspects of people's life, functionality trumps security. until security is as big of a deal as functionality we're likely going to have the same mindset of pass word reuse. i think it is kind of a mindset change, and perhaps with everything getting connected there may be a culture shift there, or perhaps because everyone is so used to everything being online there won't be. in terms of, you know, all of our information being out there, there may be a shift in the concept of hiding is no longer being online but hiding in the noise. what that actually looks like is up for debate, but there can be kind of shifts of how we think about the same things like hiding or keeping our information private.
yes? >> waiting for the microphone. >> here we are. >> hi, thank you for that. i have a question for you. so you said that during your introduction my understanding was you have quite a bit of experience in social engineering hacking. a lot of the discuss you were discussing in your presentation had to do with more technical aspects. can you tell us more about trends you see in the social hacking space? >> sure. so, absolutely. two of the most -- two of the biggest things that make us vulnerable are, you know, software vulnerable and the technical aspect but also the human element. more people are connected whether or not they want to be, whether or not they're aware of it. in 2014, five out of every six companies had been attacked with a spear phish attack. it is on the rise -- well,
social engineering is using the human element to convince someone to do something they don't necessarily know that they should or should not be doing, things like giving you their password or giving technical information away or convincing them to do something for you like click on a link or plug in the thumb drive or something to that effect. i think all of that in general is on the increase. people are more active online and so it is easy to think about phishing or spear phishing humans. i would be happy to show my screen shots if anyone is interested in that. >> can i ask, is there a sense of the size of these markets, like total size, how many people are employed, how does it rank compared to other illicit markets, how does it tie to other illicit markets? >> that is a great question.
in the course of our research that was a question we asked almost every single person. there's no concrete answer. answers ranged from, oh, it is the size of a small -- or it is similar to the size of a small country to, i have no idea to an example of one of the bigger hacking forums or cyber crime credit cards were sold that got taken down ten years ago had 70 or 80,000 people registered. one reason it is so difficult, so separating cyber crime from traditional crime for other illicit drugs or illicit activity is really difficult. so getting the size is a question, and we really wanted to know but we couldn't get. >> and one final question and we will let lilly show some of those screen shots. >> lilly in 1960s, '70s, 80s,
'90 itself, we had police officers that patrolled the streets, did foot beats, they might have been in our high schools. they were kind of everywhere the crime was. i am wondering in your research, since you have spoken to law enforcement i am assuming extensively, when we look at the amounts of calls for services whether it was my car's been stolen, somebody broke into my house, i'm being raped, in those years, versus the number of calls for service today of my credit card has been stolen, my identity has been stolen, i've been hacked, et cetera, are there any statistics that provide any evidence that law enforcement has responded in any measurable way to understanding their responsibility in this space? because it seems that if you knock on the door of the lapd or la county sheriff or dc metro, the number of police officers we might call cyber cops seem to be a very, very small number
compared to a tremendously large number of victims. >> so i can't speak for the fbi or law enforcement, but i do know there certainly are growing organizations of people who focus on cyber crime. so there's certainly people all around law enforcement who care about cyber crime, who are trying to respond to cyber crime attacks. i think one of the difficult things is the scale of cyber crime compared to the scale of traditional crime is vastly different. so trying to respond to all digitally-based crimes, especially when tracking down who actually did it can be difficult or actually is happening or what is still happening can be difficult. so law enforcement certainly is available to respond to hacks and breaches. what we're seeing is an increase in vendors, commercial companies who have taken on kind of a
symbiotic relationship with law enforcement where law enforcement can only go so far in the sense of perhaps there's only so much that they can say about an attack because there might be sensitive pieces of information or they need to go to respond to other victims, but now commercial companies can take over and start to help the remediation process or incidence response, forensics on a particular breach. i think law enforcement certainly is getting better and getting more involved. they certainly have had their challenges in the sense that traditionally they're not -- there haven't been as many digital natives in the ranks, but they're certainly getting better and getting more involved. >> all right. a few screen shots. so here is an example of a shop, and a couple of things.
so basically you can point and click and drag into your shopping cart. here you can see that there's u.s. versus european credit cards, and there's a difference in price. these are bit coin. also down in the bottom you can see that there's paypal, so some of those are verified, some of those are unverified accounts. here is an example of another store where they're selling different kind of e commerce accounts. they want to make sure you know they have 80% guaranteed so they're reliable. one of the reasons why it's difficult to find these types of sites is that a lot of people are on what's called the tour hidden services. so they are on websites that end in.onion, which tour stands for the onion router. it is basically a way to essential
essential essentially become anonymous on the deep web. this is another example of that address, and you can see it is a bunch of gobbled gook. there's a search tool on the dark web on tour but it is not that good. here is an example of different kinds of paypal accounts with different account balances for different bit coins. this one they really are proud of the fact that they've reached 98% so you definitely should shop at cc for all. here is an example for a bulletin style web forum where you can get information, things like hacking e books, guide to making money. where is the best place to get counterfeit usd. i like this one, from stolen paypal to bank accounts, how.
we have a site, this was one of the russian sites i went to, and you can see there's a protected forum. this is where i didn't have enough reputation points in order to get me access into this forum. there's other information that you can get here. and then finally this isn't as a service site. this is where you can rent a hacker and he has many -- or she -- oh, he, has many of his skills. i would love to say she. programs it is a she. has many of the skills that you can hire. thank you so much for your time. >> supreme court justice ruth bad bader ginsberg speaks to law students. she is expected to talk about late justice scalia. that is live at 5:00 eastern
here on c-span3. >> next, a portion of today's washington journal and our spotlight on recent magazine articles with the contributing editor of the "national review." >> it is our weekly spotlight on magazine segment here on "washington journal." joining us from new york, writing for "national review" on the topic of technology and how it impacts the working class or at least a certain section is andrew stediford. good morning to you. >> good morning to you. >> what inspired you, prompted you to write about the impact of technology on the working --
>> when you talk about robots, define what you mean by -- >> robots is just a sort of -- sort of sexy, sinister shorthand. i'm meaning any sort of automation, i.t., basically the replacement with -- replacement of humans by machines, put it that simply. >> one of the things you talk about is that you referenced to talk about the working class in general, but you used the term elites in the matter and how technology will affect them. could you first of all tell us what you mean by elite? >> elite is a somewhat lazy term, but if you look at jobs it
is really means high paid jobs, jobs, you know, lawyers, doctors, financial people, those sort of jobs, people who traditionally have seen themselves as really immune from the effects of automation and i.t., or i.t. has been a help, not a threat. what we're not talking about so much here, although there has been carnage amongst those ranks as well, is the effect of automation, for example, on manufacturing jobs. >> and so to stick with your theme for the worlds of computer science and lawyers and doctors, give us examples on how technology is replacing these jobs, considered i guess -- or beforehand that had to be done by man. >> well, i give you one example from the legal profession, which is discovery. i imagine you're sort of fairly familiar with the process that the lawyers, everyone starts
suing, paper flies everywhere, and one of the things that has to happen is if you are suing or people are suing each other, both sides have to show what is referred to, you know, they have to show documents that are relevant to the lawsuit. now, what that involves is the lawyers from each side looking at their own -- their clients' paperwork and saying, women, i don't have to hand over that little paper because it is privileged. for example, it was a conversation between the client and his lawyer, or because it is irrelevant. now you have technologies which mean that assisting process can very largely be done by machine. with the lawyer at the top, if you look, just signing off and doing a double check. so what was once a labor-intensive process for lawyers, trained lawyers, has now become essentially automated, and you can, in fact, and there are instances of this
where you now sort of e-discovery factories. i am using the word metaphorically, where basically you just have lawyers who review endlessly the documents that have been sorted for them by the machines, and then come to the final -- come to their final judgment as to whether this is something they have to hand over or not. but the point is this is, if you like, the industrialization of what was once an artisinal process. those lawyers working in the e-discovery process may be in a vast and extreme case what sort of progression are they having in their firms, what are they learning about? not that much. all they're doing is supervising this automated process. >> the impact of technology on the fields of law or medicine or computer science and other topics, that's what we're talking about with our get, andrew stuttaford who wrote the column robot envy for "national
review." 202-748-0001.202-748-8002 for republicans. mr. stuttaford, these technology companies replacing what was done by people, are they based in the u.s.? are they based in other parts of the world? are these being offshored, so to speak, to other countries? >> well, i think the basic technology is very often devised in the u.s. we lead on that. but you ask a very good question about offshoring. because if you break down the elements of what was once the job of the man in the oak panelled room, you can say this part of the job can be done by a machine or this job can be done by a piece of machine or technology.
there's no reason why somebody sitting in china or india could don't that. so you have to technological pressure. the machine can do what the lawyer did before or perhaps the machine can be interpreted by a lawyer sitting in india and undercutting the wage rates of the lawyer there in america. >> one of the examples you use is the arab spring in 2012. can you relate that back to now? >> yes, absolutely. there's a professor in connecticut called peter turchin -- i hope i pronounced his name right -- who developed a theory of what he calls elite overproduction and put very, very simply and i use in the a slightly different way, he says
if you produce a lot of educated people and there isn't work and there isn't good work for them to do, they are quite likely to cause trouble. now the arab spring was the extreme example of this because, of course, as we all know, these were operating in countries -- this occurred in countries where there were no democratic ways of expressing yourself so people had to take to the streets but the principle was the same. you had large numbers of educated people with not a lot to do and educated people with not a lot to do or who think they are not getting their due. they are likely to push back and push back quite hard. >> "robot envy, how automation is finally threatening the elites." andrew stuttaford wrote the piece for "national review" paul is calling from connecticut.
paul go ahead. >> caller: good morning, all i can do is echo everything your guest has said. i've seen and think people don't realize how inexpensive it is to automate. this is moving into the professional field, my brother-in-law is an attorney, he talks about how much automated come through the compute y computer and jobs that leave aren't coming back because the machine is doing them. >> paul, i think that's a good question and i don't know whether you have read my article but at the end of it i say
unhelpfully, well, i don't know, i have no answer to this one. but i this toy take a step back, you're going to have all these people, what are they going to do? many of them well educated and start and they won't be happy about it one of the things that i think will happen is they will attempt to reshape the political agenda in order to find themselves a role and i think what dowel is one way or another you will find a lot of pressure for redistribution. that can take various forms. it can take, for example, the form of do we introduce a universal basic income. an idea attracting support from all sorts of sources and do we put higher taxes? do we pay for that with higher taxes, do we tax capital? and one of the thing this is does, without wanting to turn too cynical about it, if you create the what sheenry of redistribution, who operates
that machinery? the sans the dispossessed lawyers and accountants of the past and they can say well, we're taking the moral high ground, we're doing this for society but there's a bit of self-interest there, too. from miami, florida, hi. >> caller: good morning. there's an ongoing argument that hillary clinton is trying to kill jobs in the coal industry. i was wondering if your guest there could outline the impact of technology on the coal industry and if it's not more significantly changing the work requirements for that industry and should we look for options creating jobs for the people inside? because a lot of jobs are going and not necessarily because of the bad situation but necessarily the availability of
technolog technology. >> well, i can't speak too much about the coal industry. there we have an industry under threat from environmental regulation as well. the number of people that work -- i think common sense tells you this the case -- that technology has enormously automate it had mining business if you look at manufacturing industry it's slightly different. but high-paid blue-collar jobs, it has been hollowed out but american manufacturing production is growing pretty fast now but american f manufacturing employment is falling and has been falling consistently for quite some time. this is not a thing to -- this is not a function of ups and downs in the economy.
then you ask the good question, well, what happens to these people? the answer is we don't know. if you look at where jobs are created, they are created in the -- now in the service sector. but there's an enormous difference between being a well unionized blue-collar worker in general motors 20 or 30 or 50 years ago where you could look for a secure future, or so it seemed and working now as a barista in starbucks. the jobs now are not the quality that the working class need, if i can put it that way. >> from colorado, andrew next for our guest, hi. >> caller: i love you show, i want to thank you for having me. i want to talk real quick about how my job is literally to make
sure people get the medication that they have. my facility has just recently eliminated paper mars which is how we figure out who needs what medicine. so last week our server completely went down. i followed protocol completely, went through and called the tech support who told me, and i quote, "my shift is about to end, can you make it until 8:00 a.m.?" the time it actually went down was 1:00 in the morning. i had medicine to pass starting at 4:00 a.m. i'm just commenting that, yeah, technology is good in certain parts of certain fields but without it being on par or right to the point, what are people like me who have no other options supposed to do when it comes to these types of
situations? >> again, a very good question. and i think what one should understand is technology is, of course, not going to replace all the jobs and, interesting the pharmacist area, if i could use the -- that in a broad sense is an area where technology as you yourself is seeing is making a lot of in roads. you will always need humans there, and companies being companies they probably won't initially at least put enough human there is to provide the backup that you need. a at the end of the day if the machines are doing most of the work and the human is just sitting there for those times when there's a glitch that human who perhaps 20 years ago had a rather well-paying job because he was the pharmacist, he was dispensing, he knew what he had to dispense or he was working out what was the appropriate medicine, now what he is is like
that old may tag repairman just sitting there waiting for something to go wrong and he won't be paid so well. >> robert up next, indianapolis, indian indiana. >> caller: i would like to comment on how i think voters are being misled, particular baby the republicb -- particularly by the republican nominee, that these manufacturing jobs are somehow coming back when those jobs aren't coming back because our workers are not being trained for those jobs and the biggest reason why mostly they're overseas because in china they're being trained to do those manufacturing jobs. we don't have the training here, we're not getting the training here to do those jobs and people are being misled by somebody
saying these jobs are coming back, you're going to get these jobs back, we're going to bring these jobs back to the states and that's just not going to happen because the work force is not being trained for those particular jobs in manufacturing. there used to be over a thousand people in the plant, now they can get it done with 100 people and those jobs aren't coming back. >> caller, thank you. >> i think you touch on various issues. when people look at what's happening to manufacturing jobs in this country one of the big people who -- one of the culprits, if you like, that's often blamed is is globalization, factories being put abroad and certainly that's something that donald trump talks about and there is something to that, no doubt. but the reality is as you
highlight is that the factories can come back and are coming back but the problem is you don't need many people to operate them and -- i mean there are countless examples of this. the phenomenon is known as reshoring. but the old days, the idea that imagining, well, the factory is going to come back if china and employ 20,000 people, that's simply not going to happen. what people will do is they will bring their factories back from china, you've seen the sporting goods manufacturer adidas has done that in a couple instances, or talked about new factories, one in the u.s. and one in germany. . the factories are close to the end consumer, they can respond quickly to changes in taste but they are operated by very few people you asked about training.
that has been the great answer that has been given in our society for half a century, a century. it's not really the problem. you can train people as much as you want but if there's no jobs for them to go to all they'll be is better trained unemployed. >> andrew stuttaford joining us, talking about his piece "robot envy" looking at the impact on technology. mr. stuttaford, we were a farming industry, then an industrial industry, then an information industry, doesn't that mean we adapt to these changes? >> yes, that's true. that's what it suggests and the magic word there is "eventually. and i think two things need to be said about this. the one is if we look at farming in particular, it's true that the people who -- the descendants of people who used to work on the farms all of course found jobs in the great
industrial centers of america in the 20th century. the horses, however, didn't do so well and the rather awkward fact is now that we are replacing -- before we were essentially replacing brawn, now we're replacing brain, raising the rather difficult question is that are we the horses of tomorrow? i hate to put it like that. the other thing is this word "eventually." if you look at my home country, britain, which is where you had the industrial revolution, the beginnings of the industrial revolution and, indeed, its first flourishing that we all know in the end that worked out pretty well but, again, we get to eventually. what there was was a period which economists defined, economic historians defined as the angles pause in which real wages actually fell, now during that period -- that was a matter
of decades, not months or years. and during that period there was increasi increasing social disorder and this fellow engels, who it's named after, he went on to write "the communist manifesto." co-write "the communist manifesto." so part of my argue system yes, this may -- history suggests in the end this will resolve itself but the political turmoil you may get before that happy moment resolves itself may be very intense, indeed. >> from daniel in tacoma park, maryland. you're on, go ahead. >> caller: hi there. so i work in the food struck industry, i'm a food truck manager and i make $15 an hour and there are currently over 400 food trucks in d.c. so i think i'm pretty safe, i don't think a robot can do my job and drive in d.c. so i think i'm safe for a few more years but i'm hearing
from my colleagues how much student debt they have and one individual in particular had over $250,000 of student debt and i'm thinking to myself at 31 is it really necessary for me anymore to go back to school if i plan on starting my own business or running my own food truck? i'd do quite well for myself even as a manager not owning the company. thank you very much for my call and appreciate being on. >> well, that's a good question. the rather appalling statistic is that if you look at jobs that are being -- the jobs out there and the jobs that are being taken up, for those going to -- there are now basically more and militia graduates doing jobs for which they are overqualified, there aren't enough jobs out there for people of a level to -- that require a a degree so
the -- given the amount of debt people go into in order to pay for their degree that raises, i think quite awkward questions. now it will vary from individual to individual, very much varies from degree to degree. but the old -- again, we get back to this point, the idea that education was automatically the answer is not quite so straightforward as it used to be. and on your trucks, what i would say is you're quite right, new the safest bit there, which is the last mile driving around the city. what is going to happen to the trucking sector as automated or driverless trucking or near driverless trucking happens? there has been on the air of blue-collar or small self-employment and might it in 10, 20, 25 years go the way of the dodo? >> clear water, florida, here's
kathleen, hi. >> caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i'm also -- i have big student debt. i went back to school for three dimensional drafting and i graduated in 2012 and i haven't been able to find a job in 3d drafting because they outsourced it to india. anyway, my question is with all this technology, does that move us closer to a socialist country? because if there's no jobs for us to do, how are we supposed to make a living and put a roof over our head? thank you. >> indeed. and this is what is driving the question of a universal basic income. and you will find support for that not only on the left where you may -- you might expect it but also from people on the right, albeit with quite strong conditions, people like charles murray, for example, because their concern is exactly that.
now here's someone -- you've got a lot of people who have done all the right things, got educated but the jobs -- there is a massive change in the nature of employment going on and there simply aren't the jobs to go around. so what do you do? and the argument -- i'm not endorsing it as such, but one has to think about it, is maybe the most straightforward way to go is give people a universal -- what's called a universal basic income which is much more straightforward than the sort of welfare system has to offer. but if you do that. if you have a universal basic income you then create the mechanism for a very powerful state, indeed. because somebody has to decide what that income is and who will pay for it and that puts immense
power into the hands of the state. >> our guest a contributing editor for "national review" and "national review" online with degrees from the universities of oxford and brussels, andrew stuttaford our guest and his piece "robot envy." that's what we're talking about. fred from illinois, good morning. >> caller: good morning, c-span, and thank you for what you do. i want to approach this from a different angle. knowing that our social structure depends on the worker bees to put their paycheck to the greater good which builds our roads and bridges and educates our children, et cetera. i was wondering if there was some kind of social architecture we could develop in the future through the political process that would have robots pay taxes somehow to contribute to the general welfare? that's my comment, thank you. >> funnily enough, that has been
suggested. i haven't studied it in great detail but there was a suggestion floated, if you google it, i'm sure you can find it in the european parliament of all places that there should maybe be some sort of tax on robots which would in essence be partly a tax on the wealth that they generate. on the question of who builds the bridges, where does the money come from for the bridges and the tunnels i guess one of the arguments is is that we move closer, if you like, to the "star trek" economy and the immense productivity that these machines maybe could generate would ensure that everything gets built. the question is, how do you pay for it and how do you pay for the people who are -- no longer have any jobs to do? >> if a lot of this technology -- if a lot of this
will be done by technological means, wouldn't education in computer science and technology be good for those entering the work force and they would be guaranteed work, considering if technology is going to be doing all these things and replacing other things? >> you would think that. but if you look, the new york fed came out with quite an interesting report in 2012 and what they found was that the demand for people with these sort of skills, i.t. skills in particular, peaked at the end of the 1990s when companies were desperately scrambling to adjust, if you like, to the new world. since then there's been a certain fall in the demand for or at least the relative fall in the demand for people with these sort of skills and like all revolutions, the technological revolution eats its own and the fact is the i.t. guy who needed
to -- sitting in the office to help you with your computer problems in many cases now he -- except it's not a he -- he's just in the cloud somewhere and one software program in the cloud can act as it maintenance for large numbers of machines, before there would have been individuals staring at the machine going "control, alt, delete." but nevertheless, if i was going to guess where the jobs of the future are going to be it's going to be those who would work well and creatively with machines. the question is how many of those jobs will there be? >> reporter: from pensacola, florida, tom, good morning. >> caller: thank you for c-span. if we have a universal income i think the working people would be paying for it and the other comment i have is about the low
income and the poor people where the government, the president could help them, three years we have no cost of living allowance in social security and that could be helping the poor people and they wanted to go to a change social security which means if you were eating lean hamburger and that went up then the president wants you go ahead and eat maybe hamburg made out of skin and stuff and not give you a cost of living allowance and next year eat hot dogs and stuff. in other words he didn't basically want to give us a cost of living allowance at all and if they get that minimum wage going double from $7.25 to $15 an hour and get 1% and 2% increase in social security, our buying power won't be anything at all and i don't see how any senior on social security can support the democratic party. >> okay, tom, thanks. >> well, i mean, that's -- i go
back to the idea of the universal basic phenomenon. i don't necessarily endorse it but i think it needs more of a look than it's had. the squisz recently turned down a proposal for one. the finns are doing a small experimental effort in it. but you touched on an interesting point about cost of living allowances and the like. setting the universal basic income, how much is it, does it keep pace with inflation? and inflation, of course, is as we all know very varied, we see a low headline figure of inflation of 1%, 2%, then we have a look at our medical bills and see what they look like and the power to determine what that universal income will be, basic income will be, will be a very important power indeed, the one thing one can say about it, what it has meant in the theory, it's meant to replace the current bundle of welfare benefits that people get.
and i don't know quite how it would relate with social security, but the idea is it would -- it would universalize it so there would be in some senses less discretion. it would be meant to accommodate all but, again, the reality is that would be an enormous centralization of power and all of us, or a large percentage of the population, increasingly large percent, would be dependent on what some bureaucrat in washington decided was the right level of ubi. >> for andrew stuttaford, mary in ft. pierce, florida. good morning. >> caller: good morning, good morning. i'm a longshoreman and i've had a taste of automation already, twice in my life. once when i worked for pensacola bottling in tampa, florida, we were working 61 individuals per shift at three shifts and technology came in and we went down to eight, dramatically,
that was 1990. 10 or 20 years ago. my first taste ever was in 1982 when texas instruments came out and was replacing some of the guys in my department, we troubleshooted machines, t.i. came out with diagnostic hand held computerized mechanisms, you punch in whatever you needed, it tells you where the area of default was, you go in, it helped with production because it eliminated us going through blueprints and so forth, schematics and so forth. but it was helpful for them. but my concern is what is the currency going to be? what is the currency going to be? are we going to go through this new world order that mr. bush was talking about some years ago? i mean father bush. because that's what i see that we are headed because there's no
way these robots are going to be taxed to satisfy the elite to take care of us all. >> well, i think what will happen -- i mean, and remember we should be careful about this and i should say this that we don't know that all this is going to happen and it may take far longer to happen to the extent that i possibly fear but you have seen in your own experience how this works and, of course, longshoremen saw -- had a fore taste of that with the introduction of container shipping many years ago and those jobs never came back. how it will work, tax, maybe you get the tax on the robots, but what i think you will get is higher taxes on capital, you will get higher capital gains taxes, you may well get wealth
taxes because if a large percentage of the population has nothing to do, the rewards from -- the value, the returns on society, a lot of it will go to those possessing capital and it will be that that will need to be taxed. >> you talked a little bit about a revolt amongst the elites about this trend happening. what does that look like in your mind? >> well, i think that what you're already seeing is we talk a lot -- we talk a lot in this election season about inequality and -- but it's interesting to note that inequality the sharpening at the top end as well as bottom end so the upper middle-class, people don't shed many tears for them, but they are lagging behind the rich and the merely rich are lagging behind the super rich so there's a lot of increasingly irritated
people and i think what they will do is -- these are guys that are -- these are people that are used to having their way and they will try to rework the system so that it benefits them and that i think you can see it's -- you can see strtrac of it here and there already in the calls for higher taxation. you can see traces of it, i would argue, in the occupy movement where you have a generally fairly educated group of people perhaps looking 10 or 20 years time and saying "well, what am i going to be doing? i want to be part of the 1% or at least the 5%. and this is where i think the political stresses and strains are going to come out of this whole process. >> let's hear from sara in washington state. >> caller: good morning. on the issue of technology, i
retired in technology some time ago. since then i've been busier than i was -- that i ever was while i was working. i'm in the northwest and i've been able to decipher a number of things going on in politics simply from my experience in technology when i began i was taught a matter of programming code and as i went on during the years and learned it and used it and continued to grow in my career with several employers, actually three, i was sent out to the pacific northwest by a three-growing company and i'm turnly grateful to them because i continued to learn. i always loved puzzles, i gave
up bridge in college but the trump card will help us repair and rebuild and build anew all of the bridges this country has been needing for a very long time. mr. trump has the answers. he will be working with great teams. i am going to volunteer if i have to. >> got you, sara, thanks. >> well, let's see. but i would say obviously you went to the right place in the pacific northwest and the people who are able to enjoy, if you like, the puzzling aspect of it are the people who are -- putting together the pieces of the puzzle, you obviously have a very good intuitive grasp of working with computers and that is i'm sure where the jobs will be. >> and mr. stuttaford, will the impact you're seeing on these other fields affect technology companies like google and apple
and those type of companies? >> oh, yes. i go back to my point about revolutions eating themselves google is obviously an extremely good place to work and gooding has about 60,000 people worldwide and which, by the way, is about roughly the same as general motors used to hire -- used to employ around the flint, michigan, area back at that peak, to put in the some sort of perspective. now, if you are with a winning team, if you like, a google or an apple, i'm sure that they will do their rate of business growth can probably find room for everyone who's on board that particular ship. but in a lot of i.t. companies, it's not necessarily the escape
route. they will apply technology to their own processes and even those who are tech savvy may find their job is ultimately automated away. >> paul from indianapolis, hi there. >> hi, good morning. just two quick points. i used to be an auditor for the department of defense and one of the things we did, of course, was look at the computer systems. a lot of those computer systems are 50 and 60 years old and don't run very well and since i retired i found that's true of a lot of major systems in major corporations, including the ones that run robots, i think we're going to employ a lot of people repairing old computer systems that have not been properly taken care of. we're going to need a lot of programmers. secondly i think you have to take a look at the work of a fellow by a name of lawrence stockmeyer who worked with complication theory.
basically computers are extremely limited by their binary thinking and his opening statement of a paper that he wrote was that to design a computer that could read "jane eyre" would take a computer the size of a known universe. >> [ laughter ] >> computers are extremely limited in what they can actually do and even some small manufacturing jobs like welding a bentley cannot be done by a computer because the welding takes far more skill than a computer can bring to it without the computer being bigger than the fact that it builds the bentl bentley. >> thanks, paul. >> well, i think "jane eyre" would be beyond a computer for some point. but we should note that computers are already composing music. i'm not sure that i would be a big fan but i've listened to it
and you can find it online. computers write news stories, take a look at that. and in terms of sort of welding, i think welding a bentley is a way off but it is remarkable now, the sort of manufacturing assembling and handling tasks that robot cans do. and on the question of complexity, again, going back to your "jane eyre," what i would say is that keep an eye on artificial intelligence. i think that that's clearly sort of developing and developing exponentially and on repairing the machines, repairing the computers, that will be something to do. there will be ancient machinery out there and will continue to be ancient machinery but machines mend magazines is already a thing and we're going to see a lot more of it.
>> mr. stuttaford, as we finish up, to apply to your point, a viewer asked off of twitter "so the question becomes as machines get more complex do we become more like "the jettissonsjetson terminator." ? >> with a bit of luck we get to be like the "jetsons" not that i think skynet is going to strike but i hope we don't have to go through too much chaos before we get there. >> andrew stuttaford's "robot envy" can be found in the pages of "national review"" mr. stuttaford, thanks for your time. >> my pleasure, thank you. because of technical problems we're unable to bring you live coverage of supreme court justice ruth bader bi ginsburg at georgetown university. it will be on line, go to our web site cspan.org.
the senate education committee heard witnesses talking about programs that address bullying, harassment, hazing, and sexual assaults. this is about an hour and a hal half. >> mr. chairman thank you very much. were you going to make an opening statement? i would like the opportunity to do that and if i want to thank everyone. i'm glad we're here to talk about these important and pressing issues and i want to thank all of our colleagues today and i want to thank the many great advocates who have been working with us on reauthorizing the higher education and safety. it's great to see so many of you
as well. we're facing major investments to pursue higher education which they correctly see as an opportunity to grow and challenge themselves and to develop skills that will better prepare them for their future. while students work hard to succeed in higher education, the last thing they should ever have to worry about is whether they are safe on campus. so i would like to begin by saying a few words about the stanford university rain casepe about why today's discussion is urgent and acknowledge violence and fear on our college campuses. the anger and frustration that the sentencing in this case has generated is completely justified. our criminal justice system failed a brave survivor who deserved better.
in higher education at the university in the college of education and human development, her research focuses on college cultures and climates with expertise in student hazing and preventio prevention. the professor is president of stophazing.org, an organization focused on sharing information and strategies to promote safe campus pliemts. she also leads the research efforts of the hazing prevention consortium, a partnership of eight colleges and universities engaged in a multi-year initiative to build an evidence base for the prevention of hazing on college campuses. she has been involved in this issue far number of years, for example, in 2008 professor allen was the principal investigator
of the national study of student hazing which surveyed 11,000 students from 53 university and colleges and major findings included that hazing exists outside of traditional fraternity and sorority environments and that schools should develop hazing prevention efforts that reach a wider range of student groups, professor allen received her ph.d. in educational policy and leadership from ohio state university and her master's in health education and promotion and bachelor's degrees in psychology both from springfield college. so it's a special honor for me to welcome professor allen to our panel today. thank you. >> ms. murray, you may introduce
your witness. >> thank you so much. i'm very pleased today to introduce dr. melinda husky, she serves as the interim vice president as the dean of students where her goal is "to support the determination of students." she served at washington state university for more than 22 years working with students. she's overseen the university's work on student affairs at a time when schools are becoming more and more important in the fight against all forms of violence and discrimination on our college campuses while also dedicating herself and her staff to helping all students who walk through the doors. in 2014, to increase public transparency and accountability, the department of education for the first time released a public list of schools with title ix investigations. dr. husky's school, which is washington state university, was among the first schools on that list. under her leadership and the leadership of the late president
floyd, wsu forged forward and made a commitment to improve campus safety for students. she and her staff have worked tirelessly to lly to improve sad well-being of students at wsu and i could not be happier to have her here today to talk about what she and her students are doing. as a cougar alum myself, i'm proud of this work and how seriously washington state university has taken this responsibility. my staff and i have seen dr. husky's leadership on so many fronts not just on campus safety, she's a leader on addressing the hurdles that face first time college students and their families and helping students facing the severe challenges that come with the lack of housing and financial security and medical coverage. i know there are still things dr. husky would like to see improved to make her school a safer place for students to learn and grow and thrive but i want to take this opportunity to praise her and her team and the university's leadership for
making the strides we've seen there. i look forward to your testimony and thank you for coming all the way to what we call the other washington here to testify today. thank you. >> let me recognize our ranking ranking member, i tell members i put a piece of colorful paper before you, that is an anti-bullying app that i developed with my student leadership advisor called back off bullies, that we did with motorola. you'll notice motorola android symbol. they naught in because they pretty much did all the back end of the work and that's to encourage you do some software development on this subject in your own office which would help -- i hope my fellow members take me up on that. let me back out this app. it looks a bit like donkey kong. >> thanks very much, senator
kirk. and i want to thank those who are here today for this hearing. we want to thank all the witnesses who are here to talk an issue that i believe is a crisis that we need to take action against. i know there's been some progress made the last couple of years but we have a long way to go to get this right. i'm privileged today to introduce a pennsylvania witness, to introduce wendy kresack, director of counseling al desayles university. she's also the faculty advisor for pace which trains students to be peer counselors and we're grateful she's here to testify and take questions. also looking forward to hearing more about the -- about pace itself and the role it's playing in ensuring a safe and supportive campus climate for all of the students on her
campus. . wendy krisak has a ba from desayles and a masters. so wendy we thank you for being here to represent not only your school but also our state. thank you. >> with that we'll introduce our last three witnesses. we have a security consultant who has more than 35 years of experience working at the intersection of higher education and public safety including as the assistant chief of policy and director of public safety administration at ohio state university. he also served as a eight inner for the rule of making process in the u.s. department of education which was conducted to develop new regulations to the carry alaire carry act -- clary act, thank you for being here today.
we have joseph storch who chairs the student affairs practice group and specializes in legal issues around campus safety, domestic and workplace violence policies. he's written on the issue of cyber bullying and as a member of the council's office he helps the 26 campuses that are part of the suny system implement the title ix clary act to make the campus safer. thank you for being here today. our final witness, i'm pleased to introduce jane clemente who along with her husband joe is a co-founder of the tyler clem ma clemente foundation that seeks to prevent bullying that she founded on behalf of her son tyler. tyler was a college freshman who was harassed and cyber buellied and died by suicide. she advocates for lesbian, gaye, bisexual and transgender right and the need for families and communities and schools to embrace lgbt students and work
to prevent and reduce bullying and rarmt in our schools thank you so much for the work that you do and for taking the time to be here with us today. we value your participation. thank you. >> i want to thank all of our witnesses for coming. we enjoy your expertise in coming for topic thank you ms. murray for doing this and compelling this committee to action on this key issue. i would encourage my colleagues to get into the software development industry with me to put together an app like this because we know with kids we we have to speak to them with apps. with that i'll depart. >> each one of our witnesses will give three statements to begin with.
>> thank you, good afternoon, senator kirk, ranking member murray and members of the committee. i thank you for inviting me here today. i'm honored to be here and take part in this process. i truly look forward to the discussion and the opportunity to specifically discuss the effects of harassment, intimidation, bullying, including cyber bullying, and hazing on the post-secondary learning environment and explore ways to improve campus safety by improving prevention and response efforts in those areas there are various definitions, most experts agree there are three conditions that must be present for activity to be defined as bullying. first, an imbalance of power. wherein people who bully use their power to control or harm and people being bullied may have a hard time defending themselves. second an intent to cause harm, actions done by accident are not bullying, the person bullying has a goal to cause harm.
third, repetition. incidents of bullying happen to the same person over and over by the same person or group. this definition is supported by the u.s. department of education and bullying.gov. harassment, intimidation, bullying and hazing are often times thought of as occurring in the elementary and secondary school environments. until recently, most research has focused on students in this environment. studies show bullying and related activities as well as cyber bullying do not end with high school but continue into the post-secondary system. it is important to understand these definitions in the context of which they are applied. in the elementary and secondary school environments these activities are prohibited by rural and/or administrative process. once individuals reach the age of 18 different protection are provided to victims by law and laws address the illegal behavior of the perpetrators. part of the problem stems from the different way bullying and related activity s aies are not
treated similarly in college. findings from a recent u.s. department of education study show that when bullying and hazing do occur in college, the consequences for the perpetrators are harsher than for younger students who are less likely to face legal repercussions. zwo two approaches need to be considered, prevention and response. some measures such as training programs for campus staff that interact with students, bystander intervention programs and awareness and familiarity training could impact the prevalence of bullying, hazing and related activities on campus. changing behaviors a s attitudee important. colleges and universities already implement similar programs in other areas such as sexual and intimate partner violence prevention programs, applying these principles to bullying and hazing prevention is a logical step. from the response perspective, most if not all states have statues that address bullying
and hazing activities. similarly, most colleges and universities have policies and guidelines related to bullying and hazing activities. some campuses address the issue within the context of harassment in general. for example, any action that falls generally under the definition of bullying or hazing would be considered a violation of the code of student conduct and will be dealt with through the student judicial process. typically, students found responsible and in violation would be subject to immediate disciplinary action. some institutions include suspension as part of that process. any case of bullying or hazing determined to be a violation of criminal statutes can be referred to the campus of local law enforcement authorities. our efforts today and through the continued work of this committee should be to identify ways to impact the learning experience on our campuses by reducing incidents of bullying and hazing, raising awareness of these activities on our campus, identifying existing and promising prevention programs
and ensuring the application of existing statutes and conduct rules apply to these situations. thank you, i look forward to the forthcoming dialogue. >> thank you. dr. allen? >> senator kirk, ranking member murray and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to participate in this round table discussion. i'm honored to be here. my remarks are grounded in more than 25 years of research and education about hazing and its prevention. i'd like to begin with a statement shared with me this week by a parent who lost her son from hazing. she wrote "hazing is emotionally and physically hurting our university and young adults and can lead to death. my son would be 27 years old. no parent ever expects to send their child off to college and come home in a coffin. it is time for each and every one of us to make a difference now for our children and for
generations to come. my 18-year-old daughter will be leaving for college in the next few weeks and i worry for her and our fellow students not only for hazing but also for sexual abuse, alcohol to abuse, and campus violence." hazing is any activity expected of someone joining or maintaining membership in a group that humiliate, degrades, abuses or endangers them regardless of a person's willingness to participate. hazing is widespread, with 65% of college students experiencing it and 47% in high school. it occurs among athletic teams, fraternities, sororities, marching bands but also recreation clubs, intramural sports and even honor societies. hazing extends beyond pranks and antics to include behaviors that are dangerous derks meaning and abusive. alcohol use, sexual harassment and assault and bullying are commonly involved. further, hazing occurs in context where students are learning how to be leaders and
team members. while we need to eliminate hazing to enhance campus safety, we also need to eliminate hazing to promote educational environments conducive to learning and promote the development of ethical leaders who treat each other with dignity and respect. though bef solid research about the nature and extent of hazing we are only in the early stages of generating an evidence base for its prevention. it remains common for individuals and organizations to promote and implement prevention strategies that have limited if any evidence for impact in changing behavior. my work in recent years has focused on addressing this gap in the research, as part of a three year research to practice initiative called the hazing prevention consortium, i collaborated with eight pioneering universities to test promising hazing prevention strategies and sexual wait their impact. through this consortium we have conducted a considerable amount of research to far mallize a
data driven framework for hazing prevention but as we move forward we remain cognizant that building evidence base is long term and resource intensive. ev base is necessary and long-term and resource intensive. as we consider hazing prevention in relation to other forms of interpersonal, i will briefly point to several years in which there are need for government support and engagement as we tribe to formulate hazing prevention as one among many campus safety issues. we need to on going research to continue to improve our understanding of the problem of hazing and continued testing and evaluation of prevention strategies to identify approaches that have proven track records for effectiveness. we need to the establishment of sound laws, policies and procedures to protect students from hazing and address incidents when they occur. we need to mandates to increase transparency about hazing incidents and reports on campus so institutions are held
accountable for tracking hazing and so that the public has access to accurate information. we need to the development of research and prevention frameworks that address the intersections across campus safety issues so that we are not operating in a siloed approach. state and federal support of education and training are needed. with a focus on ethical leadership development and bystander intervention. financial support for disseminating information campaigns to educate the public about hazing, signs of and where to report it and coordination of regional and national conferences and meetings to gather scholars, educators families and other stakeholders to advance the cause of hazing prevention. in closing, the time is now to ensure that hazing is foregrounded as a threat to campus safety and a threat to positive leadership development in our youth about the time is now to prevent further senseless tragedies and loss of human potential as a result of hazing. and the time is now to recognize
that educational institutions will be stronger and safer without hazing. we all have an opportunity and responsibility to make a difference by committing to hazing prevention and promoting safer schools and campuses for the youth of this nation. thank you. >> thank you. dr. huskey. >> mr. chairman, senator murray and members of the committee, my name is melynda huskey, interim vice president of student affairs at washington state university. area proud to have senator murray as alumna and i'm honored to participate in this roundtable on the important issue of campus safety and violins prevention. i'm here on behalf of washington state university's leadership. we are the land grant institution of washington, physically present in every county in the state delivering education, research and source services that benefit washians in their daily lives. my role is to oversee all programs and offices which
support out of classroom student experience. and in that role, i've been asked to share with you the approach we take on our campuses. like many universities our campus has experienced incidents of hazing, bullying, sexual assault and cyberbullying. we're committed to using the best evidence-based practices available and if adopted the public health model for violence protection. multidisciplinary teams and health care providers, human development experts, prevention scientists, student affairs practitioners, law enforcement compliance sisters communicated members and students work together to define the nature and extent of violence on our campus, identify risk and protective factors, develop and implement interventions, evaluate their effectiveness and oversee their broad emt implementation. we look at all levels of interaction, social, community relationship and individual which support healthy choices and promote a healthy campus. we also evaluate how well our
interventions serve zing populations, veterans, members of the lgbt communities, international students and students with disabilities. for example, our hazing prevention efforts are the interdisciplinary and dribed across campus. while a few organizations are likely to come to find, the fact is hazing occurs in many organizations and once established as a cultural practice can be resistant to change. we offer preventive training and information to all student organizations on this issue provide anonymous reporting and work with advisors and mentors locally an nationally to identify the rick and protective factors which change outcomes for students. we take the same approach to bullying and harassment including an educationally focused student disciplinary process. we are also now focusing on improving suicide prevention efforts on our campus. with support from the substance abuse and mental health services administration, in partnership with the washington state department of health and other institutions of hish ed across the state are creating and
refining research-based suicide prevention plans designed specifically for student life. since 2011, we've been fortunate to receive federal support for our work in the area of sex and gender based violence through funding from the u.s. department of justice's offices of violence against women, grant to reduce dating violence and stalking on campus. we've comreemtd a suite of requiring training for all incoming students which includes small group workshops, bystander empowerment and intervention strategies. we are committed to creating a safe, supportive environment treat from violence in which all of our students can focus on learning and in which they can graduate as educated citizens ready to contributor to their communities. thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. >> thank you. >> miss krisak. >> senator kirk, ranking member murray and members of the
committee, i deeply thank you for this opportunity to testify and share desales university's efforts regarding the prevention of bullying and hazing incidents. desales is a 50-year-old institution grounded in the teaching of st. francis desales. desales focuses on educating students morally, socially and spiritually through its out of the classroom programming which provides students with a moral compass and enriches their lives on a deeper level. the university mission places christian humanism at its core and works to enhance the dignity of the individual. as freshmen students learn our character code which asks them to conduct themselves in a respectful manner and treat others with dignity and respect. the code is posted everywhere on campus. our desales community is committed to maintaining a healthy and kind environment. before freshmen arrive, they are engaged in our first year experience program. teaching them it the bakes of
navigating college and immerses them in a curriculum that focuses on the virtues of the pairs, trust and cooperation, love forgiveness and hope. these virtues are integrated into their experience through community service projects and other programs. through character u, students learn about themselves, the world around them and the role they will play in it. it helps new students meet new people, form relationships and communicate with one another. in a texting and twittering world, this is not always easy for them. desales outside of the clam programming is committed to instilling the concept that every human being deserves to treated with dignity and respect. desales university takes a multidisciplinary approaching to caring for students. we have an early alert system that places struggling students on our radar so we can be supporting them. early alert prompted the creation of our care team, this team inclues health
professionals and staff from all areas of campus. we meet bimonthly to investigate and respond to matters of concern related to students. we coordinate interventions and make recommendations that will ensure the safety and well-being of our students. in 2003, one of my colleagues and i created a six-member team p.a.c.e. standing for peers advising counseling educating. the programming emphasizes personal responsibility, deep respect for others and concern for the common good. this student team research and presents on relevant wellness topics to fellow students. in 2012, they created #sorry i'm not sorry, a program that addressed bullying and hazing in the cyberworld as well as prevention methods. this program led to a student driven cyberbullying policy which is now official policy in our student handbook. since then, pace has geared efforts towards addressing the root of bullying through its kindness programming.
society has tossed aside human compassion for others for their own gain. pace created a week to demonstrating kindness to others through selfless acts inspiring others to promote positive behavior. kindness week is now an annual event #happier desales including programs such as kindness can change the world, a program about bullying that moat have as students to increase kindness measures around campus. it includes activities and give aways such as consent kisses where students ask permission to give another student a kiss for their consent, the student receives two hershey kisses, one to keep and one to give away. this promotes consent and respect for relationship. . other programs incan included community members nominated someone to receive a letter of encouragement support and grat gratitude. everyone was invited to help write the letters. you are more than alike a
program encourages opportunities not to rely on how many likes they get on social media to define self worth. did i versity of individuality highlights our solidarity initiative which focuses on celebrating differences and developing mutual respect for one another as valued human beings. all of these programs have had great impact on both students and staff. again, i thank you for your time and opportunity to share with you the efforts being made by our small university to derail bullying and unkindness of any kind by nurturing strong character development among our student population. thank you. >> thank you. mr. storch. >> members of the committee, on behalf of the state university of new york, the largest comprehensive higher education institution in the nation, its chancellor and its general counsel joseph porter, i thank the committee for convening this important hearing. 55 years ago next month, the fifth circuit issued a
decisionings in dickson versus alabama. st. john dixon's alleged crime was he sat in at a lunch doubter. he was dispoliced with no hearing and no process and the court said that won't do. 44 years ago last month, this congress added title 9 to the education the amendments and the law that became the cleary act recently turned 25. in the decades since, we have learned much and much has changed. students charged with violations receive robust due process including notice of charges and an opportunity to be heard at a level unimaginable five decades ago. crime on campus has led to a complete overhaul such that our students republican far safer on campus than the surrounding communities. congress and the department of education have drown attention to violence and the need for colleges to respond robustly. but there's far more work to be done. we like to say that the best response to bullying, hazing and
other violence is when you don't need to respond at all since it didn't happen in the first place. while a balanced response with clear policies and due process are important, sunni was most excited by this congress's shift in the violence against women act anticipates to require significant prevention work at a campaign across account year. traditionally the cleary act in title 9 guidance looked backwards, respond to violations, count them, warn of past crimes. congress said institutions must look forward, prevent. but at sunni beat went fort. while it requires that training be offered to all students, at sunni erequire student leaders and athletes complete training before they can compete in athletics or before their club or organization can be registered or recognized. why? because we think they're more likely to be offenders or victims? no, because they're most likely to be leaders who could can
model pro behavior to fellow students. we partnered with the department of health in bringing in the bystander to all campuses and work closely with the new york state police, the office many campus state of and the coalitions against domestic assault and violence. we take threat assessment and behavioral analysis seriously and have trained with the fbi and u.s. marshals to help us identify and respond to student threats bfd violence occurs. sunni partnered with governor cuomo ho took our policies and proposed them as laws across the states. now all new york college students have the same protections. as a public institution, we spend significant resources training on constitutional due process including model policies and web nars in every case, we strive for fair and equitable process. like anything 25 years old, some minor repairs to the cleary acting are in order. while congress that is added additional requirements for colleges it hasn't cleaned up ones that are no longer
effective or whose bureaucracy outweighs effectiveness. sunni wants to do more tore prevent bullying, hazing and other violence. we want to do it more effectively. there is much good work to be done on college campuses but training and prevention of bullying, hazing and other violence must begin long before college orientation. students form habit anderson norms in high school or middle school and colleges sometimes fight an uphill battle to change the views. further, many high school students will graduate or not graduate and never attend college and never have access to the protections that only apply in the higher education act. but we believe they still need education and that education must take place earlier. sunni hears embraces the call to provide the best services to protect our students from campus violence and support nem in the event that an incident occurs. in all the areas described in this oral and my written testimony, we in higher
education and the congress are moving in the right direction but there is more work to be done. we're not afraid of taking on challenges but we want to address these issues in ways proven with evidence to make a real difference in the lives of students. so that the next 25 years of college student attendees will be even safer than the last 25 years which with your work was even safer than the 25 years before that. thank you for the deep honor of addressing this committee. >> thank you very much. miss clementi? >> thank you, senator murray and esteemed members of the committee. i'm grateful for the opportunity to share my son tyler's story with you with the hope you will learn from our family's pain, a family not very different than some of your own. maybe we could even be your neighbors or your friends. i certainly think that we could be your voters and your constituency because everywhere i go, i hear people that relate to some part of tyler's story. as a family, we are like most
families. we once had many hopes and dreams especially for our children. we are very private and simple and we enjoyed the simple pleasures of spending as much family time together as we could whether at home in ridgewood in the beautiful garden state of new jersey or as we traveled on vacation. our family consists of my husband joseph, a civil engineer by education, myself a registered nurse, my oldest son james who graduated from skidmore college in 2009 and works full-time for the tyler clementii foundation, my middle son brian who graduated from cornell university in the 2010 and is a mechanical engineer, a thermal dynamic specialist, and my youngest son tiler who graduated ridgewood high school in june of 2010. tyler was a very kind, caring and thoughtful young man. he had a great sense of humor and a cheerful easy going disposition. he always had a great smile on his face. he always woke up with this huge
smile as if to welcome the day and say that i can do anything today. today is a day that there already many great possibilities. many bright opportunities. he was also ves very creative and very smart and curious. he liked to explore and investigate. and he will especially liked to travel. he was very full of life and energy and lots of ideas. tyler had many interests in his short life as most children do as they go through many phases and stages but his one true passion was music. he was an accomplished and gifted violinist. tyler was very special and precious to us. but he was unknown to the world until september of 2010. when he made national headlines. shortly after he starred his freshman year at rutgers university, tyler's roommate webcamed him in a live stream of him in a sexual encounter with another man and then his
roommate tweeted about tyler's encounter inviting many others to come in and watch inviting them into a very private personal moment. i can only imagine that these bullying actions by his roommate must have humiliated tilener front of his new dorm mates. he must have even thought maybe possibly that a sexual orientation was something to be laughed at or ashamed of. at this point, tyler's reality became very twisted and distorted. tyler could no longer sae how special and precious he was and he could not even see or find the support and resources that he had available to him. had tyler became totally consumed and only concerned about the words of people who were out there trying only to humiliate him. these actions must have caused tiler to feel isolated, alone, worthless, and so very desperate. because it was at this point that tyler made a decision that we can never change or undo. on september 22nd, 2010, tyler
died by suicide. he was 18 years old. tyler made a decision that we can never change or correct, a decision that not only affected tyler but also our entire family and many others who knew and loved him. we will never -- we will forever be missing a part of our family. our family will never be whole again and the simple pleasures of family time together are not simple anymore. every holiday and special family event is unbearable and incomplete because tile ser missing and a part of us is missing. and as much as we would like to go back and change tyler' actions, the reality is we can't. instead, we have decided to move forward and work to change the mind-sets of attitude and attitudes of people who think that the actions of setting up a camera or sending out tweets that say come and i don't know in and watch the show are acceptable because those are not acceptable actions. this is why my husband joe and i started the tyler clementii foundation to put an end to all
online and offline bullying in schools, workplaces and faith communities. as an organization, the tyler clementii foundation has initiated several awareness programs based on tyler's story as well as partnerships to provide anti-bullying research, information and tools for youth, parents and youth serving professionals. our day one campaign is a simple innovative research based and effective intervention designed to prevent bullying before it happens. day one campaign creates a safe inclusive atmosphere within a community where everyone is embraced not despite their differences but because of their differences. we are also committed to turn bystanders into upstanders, a person who speaks up when they see someone being humanly yeaed or bulled. i'm not sure why his story tracked so much attention but one i have learned is it is not an isolated curbs. everywhere i go, people share with me how they connected to some part of tyler's story.
maybe not the exact situation but some part of the circumstances as well as the emotional toll that tyler must have experienced. because research shows that over 3.2 million students report that they have been a victim of some form of bullying every year. that number is astronomical and unacceptable. this is not a rite of passage or kids being kids. this is a public health threat. but don't be deceived also by thinking that bullying only occurred in school age children or that it is something less serious than it truly is. because bullying behaviors do not magically disappear at a certain age. it can and will be continue into adulthood unless there are behavior modifications and bullying behaviors are serious and can sometimes rise to the level of criminal hazing, harassment, invasion of privacy, and or stalking. and to my knowledge at this point in time, there are no federal laws that address doctor full effects of bullying
behaviors or appropriates any type of prevention measures. i do believe that every classroom and institution of higher education can and should be a safe place to learn and thrive. but in order for that to happen, we need federal legislation to help create safe campus climates for all students in higher education across the country. and it is my urge today that i really would love to ask you to include the tyler clementii higher education anti-harassment act in the reauthorization of the higher education act. the tyler clementii higher education act would include initiatives to expand and improve programs to prevent harassment of students and as as well as counseling for targets and perpetrators and trainings for fact, staff and students because book knowledge is important, but the wisdom of empathy and compassion is priceless and empathy is one of the best tools that we have to make the world a better place. so the time now to create safe
spaces for all young adults to learn and thrive in our higher education system because we can't let tyler's story continue to repeat itself. action must be taken now because we have already seen far too many tylers already. thank you. >> thank you very much. and thank you to all of our witnesses today and in the absence of our chairman senator kirk, i'm going to ask some questions. we'll go back and forth. we appreciate everyone's participation today. mrs. clementi, i want to thank you for sharing your personal story and for all the work you're doing to stop bullying on our college campuses especially as it affects our lgbt youth. as a mother, i can only imagine what you've gone through. i'm very proud to lead the tyler clementii anti-harassment act here in the senate along with senator baldwin. we should recognize my colleague the late senator frank lautenberg horg originally wrote there and introduced it and we
appreciate his tremendous lead on this. what this bill does is it actually requires colleges and universities that receive federal aid to establish anti-harassment policies, and specifically it recognizes cyberbullying and creates a grant program to to provide counselling to our students. when i first sponsored this bill, i was surprised to learn that there aren't universal policies in places in our colleges and universities across the country because nos student should ever have to face discrimination or harassment when they're pursuing a degree. i just really believe that colleges should be safe places for our students to learn and it should be all of our responsibility to create that environment. >> mrs. clementi, through the tyler clementii foundation, have you collaborated with many institutions and organizations that are engaging in this work. so i wanted to ask you, if your opinion, what would be the
single most impactful thing the federal government could do to stop bullying on our campuses? >> i'm not sure that there would be one single answer because i'm not sure one issue relates to everyone. i think the legislation that is put before, that you've spoken been addresses many different issues. i think it talks about prevention which is key but also in the event that bullying does happen, we want to have programs in place, and i think it's essential that we have policies in place at colleges and universities. many colleges and universities do not have any positions or they haven't been even updated to fully use the proper research that is out there currently. i think this bill would give colleges the reason to re-evaluate their programs and policies and reinstitute and hopefully come up with some new
ideas that will address the issues. >> thank you. thank you for your tremendous advocacy on this. you know, research on the kaws of bullying and hazing and sexual harassment and sexual assault and intimate partner violence indicates ta bystanders are a key piece of prevention work. and as i mentioned when i began stanford university and what happened there it became clear to many of us how important it is to train students on intervening as bystanders. if not for those two stanford graduate students who were training strangers to the victim but willing to intervene and help, the situation could have been a lot worse. so i think it's really essential that the federal government and schools invest in violence prevention programs that help to build self-awareness and responsibility and confidence and i wanted to start with dr. huskey and dr. allan. what are some of the promising programs and activities and practices that working to
prevent violence on our campuses? and really change campus culture? >> dr. huskey? dr. allan, whichever one into okay. i'll jump in here. so promising programs and practices that work to prevent violence and change campus culture, i think we know from prevention science that it's important to have a prevention framework. it's very important to assess what you know, the climate gather data, have data driven approaches and to evaluate what you're doing. to have staff who are dedicated or designated to do the work so it's not all on one person's shoulders or on no one's shoulders to have a coalition based approach. an aapproach that is considered comprehensive and what i mean or what we mean by that and the literature means is that it's
not just one training or one type of workshop or a speaker coming in to campus or a one-week awareness week. it needs to be something where there's high dosage. so it's a comprehensive multipronged approach that is looking at the problem, the contributing factors, and the protective factors at multiple levels. so what's contributing to hazing or bullying? sexual violence. >> and other issues at the individual level, and the the group level, at the institutional level. so you're looking at positions and individual behaviors and then also you're looking at the community level, as well. all these are -- the social ecological approach is critical we know from the research. we also know that a social norms approach as well as by stander intervention both have some evidence base to back them up in terms of effectiveness and a
social norms approach works to em fa ooize rates of positive behaviors that we want to emphasize. positive attitudes and behaviors. and we also know bystander intervention, the no it your hour program has built a strong evidence-base platform for that are bystander intervention program and there are other programs, as well. of course, trainings, engagements of students in the planning and design of these efforts and outreach to the broader community. so in the case, i think in all these cases it's really important to not only focus on the immediate campus community and the students but include many constituents, all the constituencies on campus but other stakeholders, as well including family, parents, caregivers, alumni, and the local community who may come into contact or see warning
signs of these kinds of behaviors and if they know what they're looking for and they know where to report it, they can be very helpful in terms of bystander enter essential. >> dr. hucky? >> there are a couple of -- sorry about that. there are a couple of pretty robustly research programs. green dot and know your power are two of those. both of those really work at the cultural level by norm package intervention and pro social behavior but also by giving students very concrete skills and the opportunity to practice those skills. what we know is that students often don't have many opportunities and some folks are naturally gifted in intervention and being an upstander. others are not and really benefit from the opportunity to practice some bake skills. so we require our new students town attend bystander intervention training as early as possible in their first semester and we reinforce that
in a variety of environments so students have many opportunities to practice. we've been fortunate our student government has embraced this had effort and as student leaders has really been engaged in promoting and extending our work around intervention. we also know that students would benefit from the early and frequent conflict resolution training. it's something that as i think we've all agreed, most of this work needs to start in elementary school. it's by the time we have an 1-year-old student facing a major developmental event in coming to college, the ability to generate new behavior is limited just by the incredible cognitive capacity that's taken up by being at college and so if we could introduce the more broad based conflict resolution training early to teach students to de-escalate, to intervene, to think about ways of moving away from violence and towards creative problem solving we know that that would be very helpful.
we do our best to provide that in the college experience and i think we do a good job but we could certainly -- it would be so helpful to be able to build on a strong base of bystander training and conflict resolution training that happened early and that we could reinforce. >> very good. senator casey. >> i want to thank senator murray for her leadership today for this roundtable but also for her work on these issues for a long, long time. and we're grateful for that leadership and it's probably needed now more than ever. and we're grateful for that. i want to just make a flip comment and then direct maybe one basic question to both dr. huskey and to mr. storch. i guess the first comment is when you consider this problem of sexual assault, sexual
violence on campus in addition to the related problem of bullying, which seems to occur at all ages in a lot of different circumstances but especially when children are very young where it can be particularly destructive, i guess in both cases, the tolerance of that activity is the ultimate betrayal. we tell children study hard, go to school and you'll succeed. well, they study hard and they go to school and they get bullied over and over and over again. a lot of adults don't do a damn thing about it. we tell young women study hard so you can go to college and you'll be on a college campus, you'll learn a lot. you will -- your life will be improved if you get that college education. and then once again, people in authority from politicians to
leaders of all kinds and some of them on campuses, don't do very much. and then you have the horrific circumstances where whereby someone hans to be gay or lesbian or has a disability becomes the subject of bullying to the extent where they feel that the only way for them to deal with it is to take their own life. and i want to thank miss clementi for being here. i can't even imagine what you've been through, but your presence here gives us hope that we can find some answers that will lead us in the right direction. but it is a betrayal. and for too long, we've i think as a society kind of shrugged our shoulders. so politicians need to do more. whether it's cap pass or university leaders need to do
more. employers need to do more and certainly parents need to do more. and i this i we have to push hard enough where people get a little bit uncomfortable with some of the things we're proposing because if people aren't uncomfortable, not much is going to happen. i've had the chance to work on two parts of this, one to lead the effort to have enacted into law the campus save act which did a whole host of things but it's only been in practice for a year. we had to first of all get it done as part of the reauthorization of the violence against women act. and then to get the regulatory process done and then september of '15 or i should say july of '15, it went into oo effect. so i want to ask what the experience is by universities. i want to thank senator murray
and her leadership in the tyler clementii higher education anti-harassment act. especially in i'm a cosponsor of that and also leading the effort on the safe school improvement act which means that local school districts have to do more when it comes to bull. but i guess one question only because i know we don't have time. for dr. huskey, i'll start with you. in terms of campus save, it's been a reality now for just a year. whatever steps have -- has your institution taken to implement the campus save act? >> thanks very much for the question. >> sure. >> because we have been fortunate enough to receive the department of justice grant, we were actually in compliance with almost all elements of the campus save act before it was enacted. so we had the opportunity to extend our work. we were fortunate enough to receive an extension of that grant.
and so we have been able to really strengthen our campus community relations team to provide more education and to do that work that allowed us to be in compliance. >> that's great. i should have mentioned some of the elements. we were trying to do a number of things, increase transparency is one, promoting bystander responsibility which was talked about today. making sure that victims get the help that they need, that schools have to have in place procedures and policies to help victims. clear procedures for institutional disciplinary proceedings and assistance to institutions to implement the requirements. so mr. storch, maybe you can give your perspective from a major institution like yours. >> sure, thank you, senator. as i said in my testimony, we dove into the changes in the campus save act, the amendments head first.
the department of education issued its proposed regulations on june 19th of 2014. on june 26th, we held the first of two trainings for all of our campuses. we had over 250 people between the two trainings. i had seven of my colleagues a total of eight attorneys and we had two very good interns. we wrote a 93-page guidance hugh to comply with all aspects from exactly what you have to do to report on what the state laws are in the annual security property to policies on bystander intervention to policies on confidentiality. we took a lot of things that were already working with sunni and spun them up to things that will work well across the board. we wrote 93 pages in a week, written, edited ready for our traches. we had 250 people between those two trainings and we wanted to be sure that even though the laws would go into effect in of july of 2015, but july of 2014, all of our sunni campuses would be trained and we met that goal.
sorry colleges were waking this was there, nothing against them, we were completing our trainings on it because it is that much of a thing that the entire university thinks about from our chancellor to our student affairs practitioners it, title 9 practiceticianers and the like. we've continued to build on that and in new york state, we had our sunni policies, the governor worked extremely well with sunni, took those sunni policies, proposed them. they passed almost unanimously in both houses. and that went way beyond the requirements of vowa explaining confidentiality and affirmative consent definition that is a model definition. amnesty when bystanders or victims come and report and a number of really important training things because as we said, we encourage you double down on prevention. everybody up here you've heard about it. we don't, suni doesn't want to
be the leader in responding to bullying, hazing and violence. we want to have fewer incidents to respond to. i know all my colleagues up here share that. we really liked what the kong did with vawa and hope that you continue down ta pathing. > thank you very much. appreciate it. >> senator baldwin. >> thank you very much, senator murray, for convening this roundtable and this is very, very helpful to after you us. and i appreciate the presence of all of our witnesses here. i wanted to start with you, mrs. clementi and start by also sharing my gratitude to you and your family, all after your family for, as you said, helping others learn through your
family's pain. but really taking serious action so that the tragedy that you experienced doesn't happen to other families. so. >> thank you. >> i very much appreciate that. and i know i'm not alone in being inspired by your strength and your family's strength. >> thank you. >> you said in your testimony that through your efforts on this bill, that you've learned that tyler's experience is far everywhere an isolated one and in fact, you cried some research i believe that counts over 3 million instances of cyberbullying, i think you said. but it strikes me that this is probably an area that's under researched that we don't have as much information about the prevelance of bullying in higher education and particularly that
directed at lgbt students. however, i imagine from your own experience that you've heard a lot anecdotally and you've begun to understand how widespread this is. i wonder if you had could speak to that. >> sure. thank you. yes, i have definitely heard everywhere that i go to speak people come up to me from all ages whether it's in a workplace that we've spoken or in high schools or colleges, people like to seem to share what it is that attracts them to tyler's story and what their own experiences are. i do think it is definitely an underresearched area. i know as a foundation weise are working with rutgers university as we have at tyler clementii center at rutgers university and we are working on also on research in that area. and we are also doing poll ing inthat area because it's also important to not only know that it exists but also what will
work best like what do youth want to hear? do they want to hear me share tyler's story or do they want to hear beyonce say you know, girls don't put other girls down or what are the words that work? because we want it to work. we want something that will work. and it might not be the same for everyone. there might be different messages for different people. some people don't even want to call it bullying in the higher education area. but it is. it's harassing, it's on going actions that are hurtful to another person. some inner city youth might not consider it bullying either. they may call it a rite of passage or hazing but whatever it's called it's behavior that's unwanted and we need to to change it and address it. we definitely need more research, more polling and to survey the area. that's one of the activities that i think our new executive director at the tyler clementii center at rutgers plans to survey colleges and find the --
what's being done for lgbt students specifically in the college area and what is working and what is not working and which schools have programs in place. >> thank you. with regard to where you left it, which schools have programs in place and policies, we have two witnesses here whose universities have taken a number of steps to address bullying, hazing and other threats to campus safety. i'd like to asking at this point, dr. hucky and olympian storch, can you each talk briefly about how your universities are specifically addressing bullying targeted at lgbt students? and why it's important for your schools to have affirmative policies addressing bullying, what the positive impacts of those policies have had so far
on the learning environment. why don't you start with you, dr. huskey. >> i'd be glad to start. thank you. this is a matter that is very dear to my heart as a lesbian, as a parent. i really honor your capacity to be here and to talk about this tragedy. it's astonishing to me, and i have so much respect for what you're doing. washington state university has been a leader in lgbt services. we were the first university in the state to have a staffed professionally staffed center. i was the inaugural director that have center as a matter of fact. and from the very beginning of that time, we have had inclusive policies whichage knowledged the value of lgbt students and their full inclusion in our institution. so we do not have policies which specifically prohibit lgbt harassment because the inclusion of lgbt students in every element of our policy and practice has been established
for 20 years. and we see changes over time. certainly issues around transstudents are much more prevalent now than they were when i first came to the institution, and we are very an at the present timetive to the changing student populations and the changing needs, but we do know the work of the safe schools dmoelgs washington for years documented that lgbt students are at higher risk for all forms of harassment from unkind words to physical assault and we need to to be very aware that we have a special responsibility because we know those students are more at risking to outreach to them and to ensure that everyone on our campuses understands ha we value and include all of our students because of who they are, not in spite of but because of who they are. >> thank you, senator. like washington state, this is something that we think about a lot at the state university of
new york. suni is beginning there past year, conducting a survey of all incoming students with questions about among many other things, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression with a number of different choices and the option to fill in additional choices because we need to to know more in order -- we need to more data in order to be able to most appropriately respond. we have done a number of trainings, when the office for civil rights issued its recent letter on transgender students, we read that in the council's office and said, yeah, i mean, we've been there for a long time. and if you read some of their past resolution agreements, we weren't surprised by anything that we saw in in there. in general, specific to our transgender student population, we have taken an approach where we try to make those students comfortable. we know that for our transgender students they have been hassled at pre point in their life in elementary school in, high school. their hopes, their churches.
everywhere they've gone and when i work with my campus clients and we have a request from a transgender student who wants something different, something to change to make them comfortable, we take a look and say yes, we've been doing it this way for a long time but do we need to to do it this way? the full name on the class roster? can we just use preferred name? let's just use preferred name. there is an how our suni clients look at. i'm spre proud of them for that. slight shift on your question but i think it gets to the same concept. when suni's chancellor put together a working group in 2014, to look at issues of sexual and interpersonal violence i was one of the cocoordinators and working with the committee that was brighting our affirmative consent definition. we had a bunch of outside experts in our committee. we had one expert, one of the co-founders of equal justice new
york libby post and she said in your definition, you should say affirmatively as it were, that their applies regardless of sexual orientation, gender or identity orrics pregs because a lot of students don't think it applies to them. i said what should the sentence say? >> this definition applies regardless of sexual identity gender expression. informs in there. passed all the way through the policies, passed all the way into the legislation, went into the legislation. there were a lot of the changes to a lot of points in the legislation. both parties let that go. when governor cuomo signed that into law in 2015, it was the first time as i'm told by another activist, the first time that any state had passed a law saying rights are going to be given equally regardless of gender identity or gender expression. we didn't know as we were going through it, it was really just -- it was a no-brainer. libby post said okay. we had no idea how historic it
was, but that's the kind of commitment we have at sunni, we're not trying to make history. it's just business as usual to try to treat students equally. >> thank you. >> senator warren, thank you. >> thank you very much. thank you, ranking member, and i offer my apologies. we're trying to cover multiple things at the same time. so we're a little bit come and go here. when i was preparing for this roundtable, i was thinking about the fact of the boston pride parade which we love in boston. and for years, when have i gone to the pride parade, i don't march. i dance in the pride parade. i love it as much as any single thing i get to do as a senator because pride shows what this nation looks like when we are at our best. celebrating who we are, and last month, i danced in the pride parade. and the next day, we woke up to
find out that a gunman had mass kerd dozens at an lgbt club in orlando. and reminded us that the struggle for acceptance is far from over. now, this is certainly true on college campuses. a campus pride survey found that nearly a quarter of lesbian, gay and by sexual students staff, fact and administrators were harassed on college campuses based on their sexual orientation. and over 40% of transgender respondents reported fearing for their physical safety. now, miss clementi, i think about the harassment that your son experienced. and about others on college campuses who live with bigotry, live with hatred and live with injustice. and i refuse to believe that we cannot make our campuses safer more welcoming places. have you tried to draw attention
to the importance of collecting better data about harassment and bullying of lgbtq students. can you just tell this committee a little bit more about why you believe that is so important? >> yes, thank you, senator warren. i think that it's very, very important because basically, people in the power struggle and the bullying situation it's usually because of someone's difference and unfortunately, because of some people's cultural or religious biases, that they bringing to with them to the college campus, they like to target lgbt youth. that's what i think i have found in the work that i've done and in the stories that i've heard everywhere many people that they have shared them with me. and that is why i think we really need to work strongly in this area for lgbt youth. we need to to collect this data so that we have the input so that he can do the assessment and then we can implement a plan
and then we can help correct those actions. >> well, i just want to say thank you for throwing your heart into this very difficult fight. it is courageous, it is selfless and it presses all of us to do better. i'm a huge believer in data, that data help us understand what's happening. if you don't count it, you're a lot less likely to be able. >> that's one of the things i mentioned before with senator baldwin was that at rutgers university, we have a tyler clementii center and we have a new executive director. that's one of her main goals at this point in time is to survey the 4,000, 5,000 higher education institutions and find out what services they have hoon are providing what and what's working in those places. >> sarah baldwin has been a real leader. >> >> that's a great point to make. >> good. there's another issue that i also would like to raise today. in recent years, we have seen a
wave of state legislative proposals that make it easier for college students to bring guns to school. despite the fact that students, fact, and campus law enforcement officials overwhelmingly say this is a bad idea. of course, the nra doesn't care that it is a bad idea. they actively boast of their efforts to the eliminate some state laws banning concealed weapons on college campuses and they vanderzee some successes. just last year, they released a report and the title of the reports is "on campus carry, we have only begun to fight." so i wanted to ask, olympic amweg, you've spent 35 yearsners campus law enforcement. in your expert opinion, will allowing more guns on college campuses increase or reduce the risk of violence on campus? >> thank you, senator warren. i think in as much to highlight
what you had said, this is an issue that has taken up state by state but in some cases even institution by institution within those states. i think most educators would agree that have introducing firearms into the teaching and learning environment of a higher education institution is counterproductive to the mission of the institution. i think for example, in an active shooter situation, introducing morgue firearms into that incident into that already armed encounter would lead certainly to creating a less safe, not a more safe environment for that institution. i mean there have been only a few studies that have looked at that as something similar to this, in other words, introducing armed citizens into an already armed encounter. and none of those studies have shown that a positive impact will come from that kind of a mix. additionally, law enforcement, you know, responding to the
scene of an active shooter particularly on a university campus are now faced with a pliched environment both if you will the good guys and bad guys have guns. so while law enforcement officers are certainly trained to elf those encounters before using or employing deadly force, it still takes time to determine if the person that they're encountering is in fact a good guy or a bad guy. and that's the time officers could be using to eliminate the threat and save lives otherwise. >> thank you, mr. amweg. i think that's a very powerful made point. i appreciate that. dr. huskey, you're a current campus administrator. could you weigh in on this please? >> we're for nat that washington currently has laws that govern that so firearms and other dangerous weaponses are currently printed by statute on our campus. it's not an issue we have had to consider. my concern is consequently primarily with suicide
prevention. beknow that young people die much too frequently from suicide. it's the second leading cause you have death for young people 19 to 25 under accidental death and that firearms are the most lethal means available. the use of a firearm is about 85% lethal for students attempting suicide as opposed to about 5% for overdose or poison. so reducing access 0 lethal means is an important part of research prevention programs around suicide. and we will continue to consider that a very important part of our work. our goal is always to keep students safe and whatever our legislative and legal environment is, that will be our primary responsibility. >> thank you, dr. huskey. i appreciate that. and actually, i'd like to going there. you know, whenever you think about the nra's up supported claim that somehow guns more guns is going to reduce campus violence, the suicide aspect of this and how lethal suicide
taems are with guns is something that we've got to address. and we've got address it honestly. i know, miss clementi, you have devoted your life to the cause of reducing bullying, harassment, and suicide. which as dr. hucky noted is the second leading cause of death among college aged adults. in your opinion, if we introduce more guns can on college campuses, what do you think will be the effect on suicides? >> i think it definitely would increase the number of especially completed suicides. i mean, i think it's a no-brainer common sense question. you don't want to give a youth who is impulsive and upon takenious a weapon that's going to cause so much self-harm or even harm to other people. i think you need to eliminate as many possible weapons in their arsenal that they can have. and i think that would be an
easy answer for that. >> thank you very much. i appreciate all of you being here for this. you know, the way i see this, it is up to law enforcement teachers, campus officials, parents, kids, to demand that politicians put the safety of our children above the demands of nra lobbyists. i will keep fighting too, but i want to be clear. elected officials don't answer to me. they answer to the public. and i very much hope that all of you and everyone else who hears this will be pushing back and pushing our congress to do more where gun safety. thank you. thank you for being here. >> thank you very much, and i want to thank all of our colleagues and our witness who's joined us here today. this is really a good step in laying the background work we need to to do to make sure we have strong reauthorizing language in the higher education act. i hope we can doing it in a bipartisan way and move it forward. this is obviously a very
critical issue and today is just one part of this conversation. so i appreciate everyone being here and participating. the hearing record for this is going to remain open for ten days. information for the record, but i particularly want to thank all of our roundtable participants today for being here and sharing your knowledge, and i appreciate you working with us to get this done and get it done right so thank you very much. with that, the hearing is closed. thank you.
c-span's "washington journal" live every day with news and policy issues that impact you, and coming up this morning, we'll hear from both the majority and minority members of the u.s. house of representatives education and the workforce committee and the top issues in education each is focused on. we'll hear from ranking member, democratic congressman bobby scott of virginia and democratic congressman joe courtney of connecticut who is a member of the higher education and
workforce training subcommittee, and the chair of that subcommittee, republican congresswoman virginia fox of north carolina. watch c-span's "washington journal" live beginning at 7:00 eastern this morning join the discussion. education leaders from across the country met in washington, d.c. this summer to discuss how to improve education. hosted by the education commission. states, this is about an hour and 45 minutes. ♪ >> good morning, everyone. >> good morning! >> it's great to see so many of you back up and at 'em. we ordered more coffee for this morning, so we're hoping that it helps with the discussions that we're going to be going through today, particularly those around teacher pipeline issues, but before we get to our ed talk and our plenary, i want to take a moment to thank all of you for not only the contributions that you make to the education commissions of the state, to
allow us to serve of you, the people behind the policy, but i want to take a special moment to thank the ecs staff who have worked tirelessly over the last six months to put on then tire week of programming and meetings to help you, so if you could please join me in congratulating and if the staff could please stand. [ applause ] our next speaker has had a very interesting route into the classroom. our next speaker is the 2015 national teachest year shaneah pooems, but she didn't -- [ applause ] >> yes. but shaneah didn't necessarily start saying i want to be a teacher. no, she started as a disc josky. and she transitioned to a medical assistant. she then moved into pet sitter. she also was a journalist. before eventually, as shaneah says, teaching chose her. shaneah knows a lot about what
she's doing, and that's why she was last year's teacher of the year and her experiences are unique. she now teaches at the palo duro high school in amarillo high school and spends hamp of her day as a high school english teacher and the other half mentoring, coaching, hand holding and working with her colleagues so that they can grow in the teaching profempingts at her high school in amarillo, her students come from many, many different back gounds. amarillo is one of those cities in the u.s. that helps refugees find new paths in life and gain access to critical resources. as a resort -- as a result, shanna works with many students who speak english as a second language or have recently entered the united states from a different country. as the 2015 national teacher of the year, shanna is truly shaping the conversation in this country about working with students in poverty and across english barriers and has been working with those who have already faced extremely tough
challenges in their young lives. please join me in welcoming shanna pooems to the stage for the first ed talk this morning. [ applause ] thanks, jeremy. good morning, everybody. it's amazing to be here to be with you and especially welcoming the 2016 class of the teachers of the year. [ applause ] well, i wanted to bring a story to you from texas where i'm from, and from my childhood, if you'll indulge me, that shapes how i look at education. so when i was a kid, my sister found this cat, and there was a lot wrong with this cat. i knew that because i had seen it drinking anti-freeze out of the driveway next door. you know, one pupil was bigger
than the other when you looked at the cat, so i knew it wasn't right, and she named it gary. so a great name for a weird cat. so gary one day, true to his name and his background, decides that the best thing to do is to crawl up into the engine block of my mother's grand prix on one cold texas panhandle morning. now, my mother, unbeneents to her, came out and started the car, and when she did, gary got caught up somewhere in the car, and if you've never heard that sound before, it's quite jarring, let me tell you. and so my mother, true to form, her response to all emergencies, was to burst into hysterical screaming and crying. which brought my father, and my father drew to his form whenever he heard my mother be like that. he treated her as if she was on fire, and he just needed to put
her out. [ laughter ] he was always looking north quickest way to make things maybe not better but to make them stop and be quiet. aged so he turned to me and he said have you seen my shells? and i realized he's going to shoot into the engine of my mother's car, which made my sister burst into hysterical tears and so now we have this chorus of noise going on. hysterical screaming and crying, hysterical cut, my mother and my father muttering obscenities obscenities searching for his gun and i said my god in heaven i've got to call my grandmother. for a woman so calm and partially because she was medicated to be that way. she could drive like nascar so she drove this delta 88, and when i called her and told her
what my dad was about to do, she knew she had precious few seconds to get there before this whole thing was going to go south in a bad way. so she got there and did the one thing which no one else thought to do which was to pop the hood on the car, and she looked in and saw it wasn't that bad after a all, that gary was kind of -- his little head was kind of caught in the fan blade. so she turned to me and she said here's what i need you to do. i need you to go in the house hand i need you to get a towel and a pillowcase. which sounded so much better than a gun. and so i did, that and i -- and i brought it back to her, and she said now, here's what's going to happen. i'm going to take the towel and i'm going to wrap it around gar and i'm going to use that to get it out from under the fan blade and i need you to hold the pillowcase open. and i'm going to put him in that because he's going to be scared and he'll hurt himself or other people and then we're going to get in the car and go to the vet and that's exactly what
happened. and the vet saw that he had just a little cut over his eye and stitched gary's little eye up and he lived out his long very weird life as the thug cat of wilshire street. now, why do i tell you that at an ed policy conference? well, to me that story illustrates how he respond to problems in education in this country. it's the three responses that i've noticed the most. certainly the hysteria and the screaming and the tears. there's a lot of that especially in the spring when social media seems to be nothing about why i quit posts. or there are a lot of shotgun solutions to problems in education that we're fond of, these damaging yet efficient ways that we deal with things. i think there are precious few people who approach it the way my grandmother did which to me is true innovation. for me my grandmother is like an
innovative thinker because she was able to, as tony wagner says, solve problems creatively, but i take that a stuff further. solving problems creatively with an absence of fear using what you already have purposed in a different way. and to me that's what she did, and that's what we need in education. tony wagner also said that we no longer have a knowledge economy. we have an innovation economy, and the world doesn't care about what you know it. only cares about what you can do with what you know. and that's critical for the types of students that i teach and really the majority of public school kids are just like mine and teachers all around the country are facing the same challenges that i do. they are facing kids who as indiana university found in a large study that up to 90% of em