tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN September 20, 2016 2:00am-4:01am EDT
because they are not going to work with people who fall behind. so it's a double whammy if you can't be agile. so we need to do that and we're -- the wars oddly, war is not a good thing but a spur to agility. you can't stand to not be there on time with something for somebody who isn't just getting ready for some hypothetical fight. they are actually fighting today. and so we learned a lot about agility during that period. i myself learned a lot about it. so our acquisition system believe me on the last one is going to tell you everything is perfect there. but the companies are in the same boat we are. and the same boat basically every major institution, they are trying to get young people, especially young talented up to date people in their environs
and working on the problems that matter to them. look around you. just about everybody here in this whole town and whole country is doing the same thing, competing for the faces you see around this room that are bright, have a future, up to date. we have to do the same if we're going to stay the best military. >> let's take a concrete case, which is north korea. >> not agility. >> no. >> just checking. >> the missile defense system that the pentagon has been working on for many years is shall we see not perfect. so my question is when you think about what you're trying to do with diux and other acquisition, what do you imagine would be outcomes that would be applicable to the north koreans, frank? >> well, first of all, north
korea is just to be deadly serious about it for a moment, bill perry is someone who himself tried very hard to get on a different -- get us on a different path with north korea but it wasn't to be. they are what they are. it's not a game. it's not in the headlines a lot and so forth. but we every day, the slogan of u.s. forces in korea as many of you probably know is fight tonight. not because that's what we want to do but because that's what we have to be able to do. we are ready to do. so we have a very strong presence there. our south korean allies get stronger every day.
that's not the rock army it was. they are extremely good. we have a strong ally in japan. unfortunately the diplomatic predict is bleak at the moment. and we continue to be open to an improvement in that and try to get russia and china and others interested down that road but hard to project that's where it's going. therefore for me as far into the future as i can see, we need to stand strong in deterrence. now, you mentioned missile defenses as well. i'm going to differ with you just a little bit, because we do try to stay ahead of the north korean missile threat. you're right, missile defense is a difficult mission. and when it comes to a major nuclear threat like that posed by russia we know and have long known we have no way to protect our selves except deterrence. but we don't accept that with respect to north korea and we're not going to for as long as we
can possibly avoid it. we do aspire to protection of our selves. we invest a lot and try to stay ahead of what they are doing numerically and qualitatively, but it's -- you've got north korea, you've got iran, you're talking about problematic situations. russia, asia-pacific generally, isil which we need to destroy. so we've got plenty to do today. north korea is one of these things that never seems to go away. i worked on it once, once upon a time, 1994. i at least spend half of my time as assistant secretary of defense working for bill perry, 1994. it was deadly serious back in those days. can i play you a bill perry story i have to get out before i need to go? because it's really aimed at some of the hoover people here.
and it's really aimed at some of the people here who are trying to figure out where to go with their lives. to do what, you know, what bill's done, what i do as secretary, and more importantly, our, you know, 2.8 million folks which i think are the noblest kind of way to spend your lives that you can have. which is protecting our people, frankly, to make a better world. there's just nothing better to go home and tell your family what you've been doing all day than that. but a little story, bill may have known this, i may have told you this story before that you didn't know at the time. i was totally in physics, not knowing anything else to do with physics, i went tote scientist conference. here in washington. i came in sessions and sessions and sessions about physics.
which is my field. is and there was one sort of physics and public interest kind of panel. or not panel. speaker. and i had some work. that hour was free, i sat down, and there's a person from the defense department, bill perry i realized later, probably years later. and he was being essentially badgered by the audience about smart weapons. and that the question that they thought was a gotcha question to bill is, what are you going to do when one of these complicated microchip-enabled things breaks? i'll never forget the phrase, by the way, sergeants today would be furious hearing this. you know, how is some sergeant going to fix that chip?
bill said, he looks at me, they're not going to fix it, they're going to throw it out and get another one. and i remember the audience. i thought that's an interesting guy. a smart guy, look what he's doing. look what he's doing. and a little light went off that later down the road when i got kind of lured into this. by that offer, just do it for one year. here we are, 38 years later, something like that. and there was a little spark in there. i said, wow, that guy's something else. i'm sure you don't remember that. maybe you gave that speech a million times. but for one young person in the audience that said, wow, connecting mission and understanding. pretty cool stuff. >> so when one thinks about autonomous weapons, fully autonomous weapons, even semi-autonomous weapons like
we're using today where we have nuclear-tipped missile as board unmanned submarines controlled by machines, that something you can imagine. >> well, i believe that in the matter of use of lethal force, there will always be -- speaking of the united states, a human being involved in the decision making. i think that's necessary. and i don't anticipate that not happening. a system is better that have greater and greater degrees of ability to carry out certain functions for themselves. or increasingly autonomous. in most cases, you really need to continue to think of a human machine, overall system, even though the machine gets more complicated.
>> so how did -- >> and interestingly, before all of this discussion started, i issued a directive. this is sort of eerie, i was deputy secretary, too. as defense secretary four years ago, i sent a directive that says exactly that. that there always needs to be a human being in the decisionmaking involving the using of lethal force by the united states military. >> so, you know when we think of technology today, we're also finding the downside of technology and the loss of privacy, particularly. so, as you launch the programs, what are you doing, if anything, to try to also launch consideration of the legal, political and perhaps even moral questions that will be raised by new defense technologies?
>> well, i just gave you an example of us trying to look -- this is now four years. we're talking about autonomous systems and people. so, we do -- we do look ahead. and think ahead, in so far as privacy is concerned, in particular, internet privacy, one thing i would say to you is that we are enormous consumers of information protection technology. because there's nothing more important to us. that is our principal cyber machine. that is what i tell our cyber people, cyber commanders, that is job one. because there's no point in
having all of those ships and planes, and everything else, they're all connected today. so we have to have our network connected. so we're big supporters and big sponsors of network protection, the largest in the world, by far, in terms of what we invest, and level of protection we demand. >> you know, i think we see almost weekly stories of supposedly impervious systems that are hacked. and it raises a specter of a future in which defense operates so heavily through these systems that they are vulnerable to attacking. bill often talks about a miscalculation and possibly having a nuclear war. you know, aren't we going to potentially leave ourselves in a situation where some of these systems can be taken over by foreign powers or terrorist organizations? >> no. we -- not in the case of nuclear arsenals. a special case in which we have special safe guards i do have
confidence in for other reasons not to be gone into here. but in general, you're right. we worry about it. we're concerned about it. anybody who thinks they're invulnerable is kidding themselves. so, for us, that means it's a constant battle. we're constantly looking. i'll give you an example in a minute. but you also have to be thinking what if i lose that connection or i lose that ability. so we train our people to, we call it operating through an attack of that kind. so you have a fallback operational mode and style that is not complete frustration if that happens. and in protecting ourselves, as i mentioned, one of the things i've done is innovation which i'm always looking at suggested to me by people outside.
one of the things i try to do is talk to people who are not part of our world but care about their safety, their family's safety and their children's safety. and who will take an interest and a little time. i set up an innovation board, eric schmidt. the chairman. jeff bezos, reed hoffman, we've got some personnel things that we do. what i said to them is i don't expect you to know anything about defense. that's not the point. but you do know what agile forward-looking companies and people are thinking. tell me some things that might be valuable, might be useful. we can't use everything because we're not a company. we're the public sector. but in one of the ideas i got early on this is the kind of thing i've asked eric to provide me more of. it turns out nobody in the entire united states government
has ever done a bug bounty which is what a lot of countries do. what a bug bounty is when you go out and invite white hat hackers to have at you, and report for a reward of some kind, vulnerabilities that we find. nobody in the entire government -- we did it -- it's called hack the pentagon. it was spectacular, we got for free, a friendly, very thorough examination of tax service for which we were able to make hundreds of adjustments. the kind of thing you can pay for but it wouldn't necessarily have been as good. in our case, we can't give people rewards or people their rewards to having to hack the pentagon.
so, we've got lots of people who did this for us. now, there's an example of something that isn't novel about it in the rest of the world. but that we, for some reason, our people have fun. that's the kind of idea i want to get. as i said, i can't do everything because we're the professional. so there will be things that companies do that we'll never be able to do, it's not appropriate for us to do but there are lots of things that we can do. that's a part of adapting our style, as well as our technological content to today and in the future. even as bill did so brilliantly back in the carter administration. >> i think we have exhausted the time that you can spend with us. >> so, you get to be with bill. >> i'm afraid i have to go do something else. i appreciate it. i want to repeat what i said
about bill. bill perry was, if i -- as i think about myself now talking to audiences and trying to draw people, at the tech conference last week in san francisco. i'm looking out at these faces. and a great majority of them have not served in the military. this isn't like the world war ii generation. the draft generation or anything like that. you look at them and say how can i connect to them and inspire a generation to do something in public life. i'll just say that bill perry was a big inspiration to me. many other people, many other people, in my generation. but certainly to me. he not only represented that connection of thinking and
understanding to service. but also great civility. and decency. and that matters a lot. here's someone i always knew would do the right thing, stand for the right thing. stand behind people. and i think that's important, too, that we all be, you know, morally solid for the next generation, to the best of our possible abilities, and he was. so, he had all of that. and we're just very lucky to have him. i think our country and our world are lucky to have him. bill. >> thanks, ash. >> good to see you all. [ applause ]
>> i feel like we're on a relay race. >> yeah, right. >> ash crust passed the baton. so, my apologies for not bringing you into the conversation, but the time with sitting with the defense secretary is precious. bill, knowing what you know about innovation in the military. knowing what you know what ash is trying do, what would be your advice for him? what should he avoid, and what should he be on the lookout for that would surprise him and up-end his plans? >> let me start off, we talked about how important autonomous systems today compared to 23 years ago. i don't know about autonomous, it's a remotely controlled situation.
we don't give machines authority to cyberlaunch nuclear weapons. and a certain stand-out as well. we have great improvement and effectiveness in having a machine with autonomous capability, almost in all case as with nuclear weapons. we keep a people in the loop in the decision making. that's an important consideration. some of you here are old enough to have seen the movie where they had the doomsday machine. the thing you have to argue with this, not only do people err,
machines error.o, machines error, machines error. the best designed machine can err. so, we have people in the loop as well. when i told you about it, many times, about the time i was at the head of defense command where the computers were short, ibms on the way to the united states. the point i want to make about that story now, is that our computers are making an error. but our system understood that machines make errors sometimes. therefore, we require a human being to be there. luckily for the country and all of us, the human in the loop that night was an astute thoughtful general. so, that's a very, very important point. you and ash didn't bring it up but i wanted to bring up that point. >> what do you think the trapdoors are for ash carter as he moves ahead with this program? or his successor. since you've weren't down this road before with new technologies. what are the things to look out for that could turn into problems?
>> he mentioned already one of them, which is introducing state of the art technology into the systems does require working with industry. we do not have state of the art. we do not have capability within the government to make state-of-the-art systems. we go to industry to get that done. and industry is different than ours when i was secretary of defense getting things developed. people then understood the importance of what they were doing. when i was undersecretary, it was easy to get people to go out in industry and get people to do things i asked them to do. it's not so easy for ash. he is creating defense industrial experimental -- >> yes, defense innovation unit experiment. >> yeah. and one of the main points to that is to get industry on our side and doing these things. it's a tough job and he's works as hard at it as anybody could
possibly work, and i think we'll have good results. but it is very different. when i was the undersecretary of defense many, many years ago, in the '70s, 1970s. when we did the opposite strategy. more than 95% of military equipment had electronics in it. electronics for vacuum tubes. and it's hard to think of that today. and so, one of my jobs wasn't just to bring in these concepts like smart weapons and so on, it was simply to get the american military equipment upgraded to modern electronics. for the cost advantage. for the weight advantage. for the liability advancing. advantages. advantage the industry was receptive. we had a semi conductor industry
on one side and the defense industry. and they never talked to each other. so, i created one program called very integrated high-speed circuits. nominally, the purpose was to advance the next level of military equipment to -- i forget what dimension, micro, i guess, feature size. so, we put out money, invited companies to bid on this. we did get that. we got the program in the advance. more important than the advance was i required anybody that bid on this program which was a very attractive program. anybody that bid on this program had to be a team, on the team had to be one defense company and one defense company. it forced two companies to get together. the good to that was far more important than the feature side of the semi conductor side. >> so, secretary carter allude --
>> excuse me, that's what ash is trying to do today. >> right, right. so, he alluded in his comments early on in his appearance to the cold war, sort of balance of power with the soviet union. and it was really a bipolar war in those days.oar in those days.worar in those days.lar in those days.dar in those days.r in those days. in those dayin those days in th. for anyone like me who spent any time in the soviet union, i was based there for three years in the mid to late '80s. it didn't take long to see the technology was technologically backward. they may have been a superpower. but technologically they were nowhere, not even in the race with united states those days. today when you think about the things that ash carter is trying to do with artificial intelligence. and the kinds of startups that spring up in silicon valley, i think about other countries of
the world, specifically, china, which is going to have probably as astute, technological progress as the united states is going to have in areas like ai. when you think about this, how does that change the sort of stability issue when you're trying to develop the american defense of the future? >> that's a big difference today from when i was undersecretary. still, i remember i went -- after i got out of office, in 1981, my first visit to the soviet union. prior to that, i got all of these intelligence briefings about how the soviets were ten feet tall and so on. what we would look at in missiles they were damn good. nuclear weapons they were very good. i went there, went around and visited with people. went to factories and talked. and i finally concluded this is a third world country with a first world military system. even that was wrong.
it wasn't a first world military system, it was labeled as nukes. i think that was kind of backward as well. i don't think that's true today. >> right. >> i don't think russia compares technically -- well, no country compares technically to the united states these days. and technology related to defense. but they're what i would call pure competitors, in china, and pure competitors in some fields in russia. so that's part of what we did. then we counted on the fact we had maybe a 10, 15-year lead in intergratd circuits and we exploited that to the full.grgr exploited that to the full.rgra exploited that to the full.argr exploited that to the full.trgr exploited that to the full.ergr exploited that to the full.drgre exploited that to the full.grat exploited that to the full. cir exploited that to the full. what's really different now we don't have that lead anymore. we have a lead. there are more out there. it's not a bipolar world anymore. so, it really changes the situation in pretty dramatic
ways. >> so, interestingly, in an historical footnote, bill, of course, was the godfather, really, of stealth aircraft. but that technology was based on theoretical work that had initially been done in the soviet union. by a scientist. and they were either unaware of the potential applications of that technology. or they simply didn't have the ability to translate it into stealth aircraft. so that's a kind of striking example in some ways. >> russian chief of staff in those days actually proposed to the political world an erratic change in the military what he called, i remember the term, radio combat technical teams. basically what we were proposing to do would be the offset strategy. although we didn't know what they were doing, and they didn't know what we were doing, really. they got turned down. the answer was we've got three times as many tanks, guns as
they do. who needs this technology stuff. we'll stick what with we got. a huge mistake on their part. they had underlying capability and very sophisticated scientist he and engineers he . they could have given us a run for their money those days. one thing people often point out to me how wonderful autocratic governments are because they can make decisions like that which is true. sometimes, the decisions they make like that are the wrong decisions. and there's no self-correction in the system anywhere. once they make a bad decision, they just plow down that direction for a decade or so. by that time, it's too late to make the change. >> so, bill, you live in the bay area. the silicon valley. in fact, bill in many ways, i'd like to think of, one of the pioneers of silicon valley when he was working out there for sylvania back in the 1950s doing defense contracts on systems.
when you think about what ash carter is trying to do. on one hand, the pentagon is trying to do business with silicon valley. through diux. on the other hand, as we learned from the edward snowden disclosures, a lot of the biggest companies in the valley felt like they'd been violated by the defense department. after all, let's not forget the nsa is an agency within the department of defense. so, how does he bridge this kind of cultural suspicion of a defense department? >> with great difficulty. because that's a very strong feeling among many of the high-tech companies in silicon valley. that the government is out to tell them what to do. handicap what they are trying to do. and to what the giant is trying to do is prevent them from
dealing with companies and countries they want to deal with. and it's now. all of these things annoy people to where they stand. and you don't have anything to balance that. you don't have the feeling on their part. yes, maybe this is bad, but it's worth doing because of the dangers and stuff that we face. so, he's having a hard time, i think, getting real support from these high-tech companies. if anybody can do it, he can. he's really thrown himself into it. with the time and the energy. he applied what david packard, originally called management by walking around. when he wanted to get something done, he doesn't just delegate. he actively went out to silicon valley four times. meeting with the companies out there at the highest level, intermediate levels and set up an office in silicon valley. but he's trying to overcome that. but the barriers are very great. >> i have one more question and then we'll take questions from the audience. my question is, looking ahead to the next administration whichever candidate ends up as president, when you started the
innovative programs you did during the carter administration, there was no guarantee they were going to be carried through to completion by your successors and future presidents. so, what's your advice -- let's assume for a minute that what ash carter is doing is smart and pivotal to future defenses. of the united states. what's your advice to not only his successor as defense secretary, but i think more importantly to the next president and to congress which after all has to cut the check to pay for these kinds of projects? >> a very good question. in the field of national security, there has to be some nonpartisan approach. for success. particularly in our field trying
to apply technology to defense systems. this is often throwing in even broader areas. when i left the pentagon with this offset strategy, reasonably well advanced, the development -- we had the airplanes, next, we had the first test flight, we'd done that 3 1/2 years but it wasn't fully operational. it was a year ahead of us yet. i was concerned very much about that. as well as some other programs we had going which weren't publicly known at the time. when the reagan administration came in, they didn't even know about a good many of them. so that was of concern. in fact, they did just the opposite, they went to school on them, they learned what was going on, and they took the program from the development stage, to production and to the field. by the time we got to desert
storm, the f-117, the stealth airplane, the smart weapon, all of these things were their function. made a tremendous difference in the outcome of that war and i felt some sense of pride for them. but i also understood that my successor, dick delour, and his boss, ultimately the president, hadn't supported that the whole thing would have gone down. it's a very, very important part. we have to hope what ash is doing now will be sustained by his successor. >> there is no guarentee of that and if you asked me in 1981 i left office. and i would have said not and luckily i was wrong. they did pick it up and follow through and questions for the audience please identify
yourself please and keep the question brief please. >> there's been a lot of focus today on science and technology but it's first and foremost an art form and we have the greatest technology in the world in the military. i had four tanks in iraq in 2007 but even with all the great technology we're 0-4. zero wins and four losses in 4th generation warfare even with all the great technology. what is being done to make sure that we're not putting the cart before the horse in he guards to technology and operations in the conduct of the art of warfare. >> so explain. forgive my ignorance but we're 0 for 4. >> 4th generation warfare. >> so against non-state actors in lebanon in 1983, somalia in
the early 90s and now in iraq and afghanistan. it's hard to say we have been successful and we had all of this great technology but we've still not had any success so what can we do to make sure that we're creating the right technology to properly implemented the art of war. >> got it. thank you. >> i'm not sure that we will do the right thing but that's what he is trying to do. one footnote is research and engineering. we had a hot war going on in afghanistan at that time. the primary one is protection for the forward operating pose
and again not just to the headquaters and really something needed done and the problem was to get a high 24 hour a day observation that is coming from any direction at any time of the day or night. and the old fashion balloon up there and brings information back down on the ground and that was taking 5 to 10 years to get that done and got it down in a few months. so it was a case that the system does not per my things like that to happen. and people could do it and in the late 70s and in afghanistan,
instead of trying to reform a correct assistant, we set up a special case. except rules don't apply and push it through. it was easy to do now and it's still possible to do it. and some forebearnce from congress but generally if you have a good idea and you can sell the importance of security you get the support you need to get that done but you have to be willing to take a chance after we go out and do something which is wrong if you make a mistake. you know who is going to get ripped to pieces. these outrageous things. >> it's a very interesting example. it's not applicable directly to your question but i wrote a book
about this. so when he became president and these new technological innovations were being promoted by a scientist he took them out of the acquisition system and gave them to the cia of all people so the development of the first satellite system it was managed by richard bissel, the director of operations at the cia that had zero technological background but he knew how to get something accomplished that was summed up best in an anecdote where one of his aids was riding with him in washington and racing off to get pack out to the cia and he was driving the wrong way down a one way street and she shouted at him, you're going wrong way down this street and he said i don't care as long as there's no traffic coming we'll get there faster. that's the way he ran the
satellite program. so other questions, please? here's the mike up front please. >> my esteemed journalistic colleague. >> thank you, phil. >> i was struck by ash carter's information here and that protection is job number one and it comes on the heels of mike hayden having said verizon does a better job of protecting information than the government does and he's accurate on that. and that the u.s. government depends on verizon and others to protect. is there a disconnect here for
the priority number one and the fact that there is not an effort by the government to accelerate u.s. government protection of information. >> yes there is a disconnect. one thing i had say is in some aspects of our protection, the ones which are most important, he was supremely important to us, we paying special attention to that. so when you consider the vast amount of data and the vast amount of people in the defense department we get a mediocre effort. so for example in protecting our commanding control length that directs our nuclear missiles to be fired.
a new push for what's been a full spectrum defense. there's many that see this as perhaps a useful approach. and could be a double edge sword and it could create destabilizing dynamics. >> what thoughts do you have about what considerations our policy planners need to make or decision makers need to make with cyberattack and defense issue and nuclear command. >> i said before i think part of that is to advocate and sometimes the way to deal with an attack is to attack back. that doesn't make any sense.
we have to be the very best at even the pass protection. that's probably where we are the weakest i think. that's very, very hard. we have so many networks. and so complex. and in a mixture of civilian military and these networks and it's a difficult problem and the internet after all what is designed to be opened. and trying to fix that after the fact and it was a seemingly difficult problem. at various times and specifically for maintaining the security on the most sensitive and most important.
and nobody could think they're going to fix this problem and always going to have a vulnerability to a cyberattack. and responding back when it's appropriate but it's always going to be there. we need to also be prepared to live with it. take that vulnerability into account. >> so i think that we are at the witching hour. i want to thank everybody for coming today and appreciate it and thank you for hosting this event. >> thank you for the excellent moderating. [ applause ]
>> so of you have been given the gift of my book there. i have two things on the book. one is them is read at least the preface and chapter one and secondly go on to our website and click on the link which describes the nuclear nightmare where a nuclear bomb destroys washington defendant c. >> cspan's washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you and coming up tuesday morning
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the senate banking committee holding the hearing. you can see it live at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on cspan 3. >> the smithsonian national museum of history and culture opens it's doors to the public for the first time on friday. it will be live at 8:00 a.m. eastern leading up to the outdoor dedication ceremony. speakers include president obama and lonnie bunch and first lady michelle obama and former president george w. bush and mrs. laura bush. u.s. supreme court chief justice john roberts and smithsonian secretary. live saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern on american history tv on cspan 3. >> next members of the united nations meet in new york to discuss the growing threat of isis and how to deal with it as an international community. various foreign ministers offer
ideas on how to serve justice to terrorists while critiquing a current system being used. this is an hour and a half. >> please take a seat. we need to be on time if it's possible at the end of the meeting. if it's impossible to start. and to decide even on fighting immunity and bringing it to justice. and i said your courage in being here with us today.
ladies and gentlemen, only a few days ago we commemorate the attacks on the twin towers. just a few miles from here. six months ago and attacks. and innocent people have fallen victim to terrorist attacks by violent extremists throughout the world. in america, in africa. it must be fought and is being fought with a full mind of intentions and justice systems to bring the terrorists to justice.
and mistaken the damage even beyond terrorism. conflicts are always ugly but we have witnessed it on a scale. in syria and iraq are at the mercy of dash. thousands have fallen to their crimes and violence and in their willingness to attack innocent people and not hesitating to target especially the most vulnerable including women and children. and it was born and they fall in the category of the more serious
crimes of international concerns. war crimes. crimes against humanity. maybe even genocide. indeed, why most victims of dash in iraq and syria are sunni and shia muslims certain ethnic minorities, christians, and others in northern iraq have suffered particular prosecution at the hands of dash. the situation in iraq was probably the most dramatic. with evidence strongly suggesting that dash sought to destroy the group in whole or in part. i'm very grateful for him
speaking here today to give a voice to the victims. 2249 last november and extremed his unanimous rejection of dash and other organizations. widely describing them as a threat to international security and a threat to all of us. such movements must be stopped. this is why belgium is actively taking part in the political coalition since the summer of 2014. however it's not sufficient. not all crimes limited to dash. the middle east has peaceful groups to rebuild a society in
the region's solid foundations. and the country's concern to ensure justice of their own territory. it's demonstrated it's commitment to finding it. in contrast, in the absence of any credible criminal proceedings in syria. they continue to fall on the security council. to refer the situation in syria to the international criminal court and ensuring accountability for war crimes,
crimes against humanity and genocide is already a share and here we need to recognize that we often lack the proper insurance. and confront terrorism. and we need to work today to preserve evidence that may be used since there is no statute of limitations and we need to work together better. together with ar skrgentina and
netherlands and extradition to assist in an investigation and war crimes. the crimes against humanity and genocide. this initiative is already supported by a cross regional group of over 50 states. ladies and gentlemen, to conclude in some words i would like to say it was the following, dash must be stopped. the war in syria must come to an end. it is essential to bring criminals to justice. there's no doubt in my mind that we will achieve this. it is an ideology we are fighting. an ideology of the absolute value of every human being.
we're coming together along a universal method. equal for all and that message will win in the end. thank you for your attention and approximate for your presence again. >> translator: thank you very much. i would like to thank the foreign minister of belgium and also the foreign minister of the u.k. my delegation is very pleased to see that the you mited kingdom
and belgium and other european states are taking part in this meeting in order to express our international solidarity. to condemn the crimes committed by dash and in order to bring the perpetrators to justice. and in the he essence transborder. and that's why we present a challenge for our legal frame works. and we have all of these extremists of who are a challenge to peace and to international peace and security. and it also threatened the stability of states. iraq has faced waves upon waves of crimes from the terrorist
groupings of it. they are threatening our songs and they are trying to set iraqi against iraqis and this is a contradiction to the tolerance found in the islamic tradition. dash is targeting civilians in order to commit the most crimes and explosions including in civilian areas and in targeting these defenseless citizens and the elderly, women are abducted. they are raped. this is in contradiction with all religious teachings. the women are forced to renounce
their religion. and in our cultural heritage also was not spent and we would like to mention all the people that suffered severe trauma because of all the crimes and iraq is currently studying all necessary mechanism in the national sphere in order to bring them in order to punish them. and the magnitude of the problem requires a number of measures. we have to end the trend which needs to consider all people
that are not from the same religion or sect as infidels. we also have all the areas that have been the theater of attacks and persecution and we have to bring some support to them. we also have to try to bring reconciliations to those regions where all of these gangs have operated. we have to capture all of these and we have to judge them before courts of law.
in particular those that have become official numbers of of isis. we have to be able to gather evidence and to prevent tampering with evidence. we have to rebuild infrastructure in the region that have been devastated and we have to bring all kind of of assistance to the population. we also have foreign terrorists that need to be punished. there are also collected crimes that have been committed by isis and they should not go unpunished but we have to redouble efforts. and we have to react solidarity in order to bring them to
justice and for the international community to step up it's assistance in order to bring solace to the victims of these crimes so that they could get rid of the aftermath and the consequences and the trauma that have been caused by these crimes. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. thank you all of you for coming today. let me begin with one important piece of good news which is that they have failed and is failing it's ambition to create a state, it's preposterous ambition to create a fate many iraq and
syria. they have been righted on the battlefield and lost half of the territory that they had in iraq and about one fifth of the territory in syria and thousands of people proclaiming their joy at being liberated from rule. but where ever they are pushed back, they leave a scar and torture, massacre, rape, mass enslavement of minorities so today i want to make a simple and unanswerable point in the aftermath of such crimes. i believe we all have an obligation to ensure that justice is done. and i'm grateful for this joint
meeting because we're compelled to do this by our duty to those that have suffered so much. and it's to create disunity and bloodshed and hate. we are uniting to fight and i believe we should unite to bring them to justice. a agreed with my iraqi colleague that we will bring forward a proposal to the united nations to lead this campaign for the un to lead a campaign. >> we begin the gathering and the preserving and evidence of the crimes. it's vital from the beginning that as many governments as possible should show their
support and delighted by how many have come across this afternoon but this campaign should be supported by as many nongovernmental organizations as possible as well. those who have survived atrosties and those that represent them must also be at the heart of this enterprise and i'll very pleased that it's represented this afternoon. i think this campaign should focus exclusively on the accountability of other actors in the area and syria and must be dealt with but there are are other ways elsewhere where that accountability can be pursued. and all the victims, the sunni and the shia arabs still
suffering under the rule and the minorities that need to be targeted. and the mild east and of course those that are maimed and killed in terrorist attacks in europe and elsewhere. and indeed, in this country, here in the united states. work has already begun on this in a number of countries including the u. k. but we think the moment has come for a truly global campaign and i hope that you agree. i think it will take time. we should be under no illusions. it will take patience to get this done but i think if we get this right, we can remind the world what this struggle is all about. it is about the even actual triumph of our values. of unity and compassion and tolerance over the message of hate but above all it's about the triumph of justice for all
of those who have suffered. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> we will turn now to the commission and please you have the floor. >> thank you minister and colleagues and friends. i'd like to begin by thanking the secretary of state of foreign affairs in the united kingdom of great britain and foreign ireland of sponsoring this panel along with the foreign ministers of belgium and iraq. i'm honored to be on this town. >> this fight against impunity highlights the growth by nations and horrific abuse of human rights committed in iraq.
last month my office issued a report entitled a call for accountability and protection. survivors ofs a trosties committed by isil. it documented systematic and widespread sickening abuses committed by isil based on ethmic rehioligious identity an the sexual and physical abuse and the deliberate seize and starvation of communities. thousands of women, children and men remain captive or are still missing or displaced. these may well alt to war crimes, crimes against humanity and also very likely genocide given notably the stalts -- statements repeatedly made that they will force conversion or put them to death.
these and other allegations of human rights abuses, see laviol and crimes committed in iraq must be investigated. the perpetrators responsible for these atrosties must know one day they'll be brought to account. the government of iraq has the primary responsibility to deliver justice to its people. if as emphasized by a foreign minister the government faces impossible challenges in this task, it should seek to be held for the international criminal court under the principle. i have repeatedly advised iraq to exceed to its own statute in the meantime to except it's jury diction with retroactive effect and the security council to refer these aelthss to the icc.
and of a un commission and by the withdrew nighted kingdom and we back this proposal. and connect evidence of all serious violations in iraq no by woman they were committed and it is important all of this works together. and have the final say over the destiny. in the final country. it is they that matter or should matter the most always.
>> yes, ladies and gentlemen, i'm dr. simon adams at the center for the responsibility to protect and it's my honor to monitor the rest of the discussion and i want to congratulate everybody on fitting into this room. as we he have heard it poses a threat for all that refuse to describe it's extremist association and also war crimes against humanity and the un commission included it's crimes and other communities in iraq and it's operatives or a military campaign to regain territory that it has seen and it's necessary to show that the international community will not allow the genocide and other atrosties to escape punishment
nor to expect the survivors to relinquish their justice. the government in this room made a commitment to uphold their responsibility to protect mass a atroci atrocity crimes. i'm proud to call a friend and a colleague. nadia's courage is a source of inspiration and is representative of what is most feared. her story and survival is a direct challenge to everything they stand for. it's an honor to give the floor to ambassador nadai.
>> translator: our colleagues at the international center for protection, thank you for addressing this and thank you for all of those that are present and countries and amal clooney and also representative of the society, the civil society organization. they're proud of taking children to training camps. they're proud of their ethnic cleansing and the presence in muslim countries is a shame and they must be eradicated. they have committed human rights
abuses and in all other sections of society against civilians and other minorities and those who do not fit within their culture. they imagine how they could drown, people drown women an children. how they burn children alive. they have introduced a new type in the world that was unheard of before and they have created principles. the target and the destruction of humanity for years that we have been, for two years we have been executed. my people have been terminated or exterminated and the perpetrators are still roaming free. how can we be proud of our humanity if we we are not even able to call ethnic cleansing
ethnic cleansing. my country did not even hold one session in it's council of ministers about the cleansing. or the eradication. those as a whole, they do not accept it, adhere to the principles or to adhere to the rules of international law. and our graveyards are not even protected. and the entire world is not paying attention. could not even pay $10 to protect these cemeteries. more than 40 graves have been discovered and the the world is doing nothing about it. i do not understand why they do not accept an international
inquiry into holding those who, the perpetrators accountable. it's an international organization committing crimes and terrorism on a world hefl. why are they not held accountable internationally and the is the impunity. i'm asking myself. i wonder why a person like me is knocking the doors of the international courts to get justice. and protecting the peel. it wasn't informed in order to protect the civilians. the local and the rape of thousands and not even one member has been subjected to justice whether in iraq or any
other country for the perpetrator of crimes. there was no national or local or international inquiry about this. and there was no try beaual locally or internationally. i cannot understand this. how are they not held responsible? those barbarians -- why are they not held responsible internationally? so that those that come after them understand and learn their lesson? all the members of the united nations are committed to prevent genocide. i'm here to call upon holding the perpetrators of terrorism accountab accountable. i demand that iraq calls upon the united nations security council to start a new inquiry
participate at this level to make her voice heard. she mentioned the injustice in iraq. all kinds of injustice in iraq against all kinds of factions, muslims and others and it's important and natural that she stresses upon the crimes committed against the group she belongs to. thousands of years i would like to state that the council of ministers has mentioned the faction with fairness and spoke about it on the 15th of march 2015 and adopted resolution regarding the extermination of other minorities that the
message of the foreign minister of iraq anywhere in the world mentions them and the crimes committed against the women and the children everywhere and once again i'd like to salute her and now i wanted to make the comments. >>. >> the next speaker has been in the front lines in the fight against impunity and bringing perpetrators to justice. she is also the legal council. >> thank you and thank you for inviting me to participate at
this event. two summers ago isis, the richest and brutal terror organization in the world began it's campaign to start within islamic califate. it reserves the most brutal act for a curdish speaking group that's neither muslim nor christian and that isis considers infidels. it has vowed to wipe them out simply because. >> so far over 5,000 have been killed and over 3,000 women and children remain enslaved by isis
there has not been a single member of isis held to account in the court anywhere in the world for the genocide. i have been instructed to represent a number of survivors and in the course of my work heard the most harrowing testimony. she was forced to put make up on in preparation of rape. her nephew is forced to become a child soldier and is now brainwashed and contacts her to tell her to join the killing force. one of her nieces who i met was only 16 when isis came to their village and took her away. she told me she was raped four
times a day and broke down when recounting she could hear a 10-year-old girl be tortured and scream and cry out for her mother throughout the ordeal. another client was 13 when she was kidnapped and she told me that her captor's wife would laugh as her husband beat her and others i spoke to a mother whose daughters were driven to suicide and i saw a 16-year-old girl that escaped and set herself on fire so she would be too ugly to be taken by isis again. they want acknowledgment of the crimes committed so they cannot later be denied. they want justice. they want the chance to face their abusers in a court and tell them what they have done. they want to appear before a judge if only there was one to
hear them. >> if we don't act on genocide when will we act? if we won't prosecute isis who will we hold to account f. the security council won't step in then who will? i have put forward a proposal on behalf of isis survivors seeking that the security council send a team of professional investigators to gather evidence of crimes committed by isis in iraq we already know 55 mass graves unprotected and unexhumed. this would investigate crimes committed against all iraqis including sunni, christians and shia. the evidence could then be shared with the international criminal court or new international or hybrid court as well as with national prosecutors. suspects identified by the commission could also be subject to financial sanctions which
in-turn would put more pressure on isis's survival. and the president of this security council and representatives of the u. k., u.s., russia and france. i met with the eu and all of them have been supportive of the idea that the un should now play a role in gathering evidence of these crimes. i was also specifically back this same proposal this afternoon. and also happy to hear the iraqi foreign minister call for a international role. and the supporter of the united nations that states are failing to punish genocide. i said i was ashamed as a lawyer that there is no justice being done and ashamed as a woman that
a girl can have her body used as a battlefield and we can ignore the community for help. if we can't go after isis for these acts then all of us who are lawyers or diplomats or officials here today should be ashamed. yes for now i believe we will look back and ask ourselves what did we do in the face of genocide and what did we do to combat this brutal group that seeks to wipe out minorities from the middle east and break the spirit of a generation of young girls. will we say it's too difficult or inconvenient or that we joined forces and put alleged war criminals on trial? i thank you the u.k. government for taking a lead in harnessing this global effort to combat isis and i hope that we will now move forward together to bring them to justice. thank you.
[ applause ] >> i'm sorry. we're also running overtime and there's a lot of ministers that want to speak and i'm very brave to ask foreign ministers to limit themselves to two minutes in their interventions but i now call on the minister of foreign affairs of jordan. >> thank you for holding this meeting and thank you for your work and for the passionate plea that you just made and i hope
that we can all heed the call and do what we have to do but most importantly i think when one hears and one imagines the horrific ordeal that she and her people have been through, written staltements and speeche and conferences become almost insignificant but we have to for the sake of humanity continue our work to try to avoid more of this happening. and it is happening unfortunately. we have this fight that is on going. the military fight and the attempt to fight against impunity and bring them all to justice but also the prevention in the future. there's others out there and as
we keep reminding the world it's all connected and the approach has to be wholistic. it's not just dash. if it's not dash it's al qaeda or another terror group and they're there all over the place and i appreciate what amal was saying in terms of minorities. there are essential components of society in our part of the world. whether in iraq or syria or in other countries and so we find ourselves these days meeting in one conference or another and trying to see how we can protect
ourselves. and that's the breeding ground for terrorism and extremism and all the atrocites committed by islam and in the name of many things that we have absolutely nothing to do as civilized world. so i think we have to do what has to be done. the rule of law has to be applied. there has to be intelligence sharing. there has to be criminal data exchanges. and 2253.
and we have to pursue not just them but affiliates. and everybody who deals with the sale of artifacts or the sale of human beings we have to make sure that everybody held them accountable. and saying maybe conference mania is becoming a bit too much but it is important for all of us to continue and coordinate and address this whole disaster. and a whole way. thank you very much.
>> sure they'll be brought to justice and i approve all the initiatives. i just want to describe what i did myself on behalf of the prime minister. i wrote twice last spring to the un security council. to establish a mechanism to investigate reports of violations and in iraq and syria. first letter was the may 30th. and in this letter i mention these must be investigated and made by a competent court. the perpetrators of these crimes must be held into account and i mention what all of this just said. and in march 2015 the high commissioner for human rights be
ease the report and there's evidence that they committed war crimes and crimes against them and the pent up investigation and for the un security council and to the international court. and they agreed with that. it is why i wrote to the security council. and the un security general.kub the security council that more than 50 mass graves have been discovered so far in areas of iraq liberated by daesh control. and then he called the international community to take steps to ensure the members of daesh for the atrocious crimes perpetrated. in that tradition, iraq's representative to the u.n., mr. mohammed ali al akeem also urged
the security council to set up a special mechanism for investigating and bringing to justice the criminal of daesh. so canada therefore asked the security council to act pursuant to its primary responsibility for the international peace and security by establishing a mechanism to investigate report of violations of international law by daesh in iraq and in syria to determine whether these violations constitutes acts of genocide. okay. i stop there. but i have that may 30th. i wrote a second letter. a wrote a second letter june 16. why? because the united nations human rights council concluded that in the case of population in sinjar, it is a genocide. so canada recognized that as a genocide. and we invited everybody to do so. i understand we need to be careful about genocide. not all atrocities are genocide.
but here we have a report concluding that in the case of the city, it is a genocide. so what are we waiting to recognize that genocide, and what the united nations security council is waiting for? so we should -- the international community should go all together and to ask for these crimes to be properly investigated. >> thank you, minister. and i now call on -- [ applause ] i now call on lebanon. >> dear colleagues and friends, we must put an end to the daesh totalitarian project. is a project that has proven to be viable for some, and thus is recruiting and expanding. such international terrorist organizations are committing the
most serious crimes. and such crimes are more dangerous than exploding bomb and unconventional or conventional nature. rather they are exploding communities through poisoning its mind. lebanon took the initiative in july 2014 after the mass exodus of yazidis, christians, and others mosul. described as war crimes and crimes against humanity. and the initiative was to communicate information to the prosecutor of the icc and asked her office to act without delay. the conditions to open a preliminary examination are met. yet we are still waiting after two years for concrete actions
to be taken. crimes of such international scale committed by individuals from different nationalities require a determined international and adequate response. since 2014, we witnessed many coordinated u.n. security resolutions on daesh and foreign fighters. and we witnessed as well several uncoordinated prosecutions at the national level. and we have fallen short from eradicating the threat. the daesh project is still alive. rather it is flourishing. don't look at its geography. look at its popularity. it is time to destroy the ideology, to strip the ideological sponsors to lift the
veil on the financing of such groups. and to take well coordinated measures on the judicial level so that each perpetrator and terrorist knows that he will not stay at large and his sponsor will not remain unaccountable. the mass displacement of populations, the deliberate targeting of ethnic and religious groups, and the prosecution of all minorities are leading to the chaotic recomposition of the region. leading to ethnic and religious entities that will keep on fighting each other and raising the level of extremism on all sides. these crimes should not remain in silence. those criminals should be silenced. and the consequence for the inaction to lead to the end of the diversity that characterizes the region. a perfect chaotic situation for
the reining of daesh spirit. lebanon's that of diversity is the anti-mod of daesh. the cradle of civilization and humanity should remain. our duty is to bring those threat eing it to justice. our goal is to bring for all without discrimination. justice for yazidis, christian, sunni, shia, and this is how justice can prevail. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, minister. and i now call on my fellow west australian minister for foreign affair, julie bishop. >> ministerial colleagues and friends, daesh has inflicted terrible harm on individuals, families, and communities across iraq, syria, and beyond. its atrocities contravene
international law and are an affront to fundamental concepts of morality. its brutal attacks on civilians, torture of captives, systemic sexual violence against women and children, and other deplorable acts as nadia and amal have articulated are an utter rejection of decency and humanity. australia has joined other nations in condemning the appalling abuses committed by daesh or isis. condemnation is not enough. we must defeat daesh. we must totally neutralize the threat it poses to civilians, the region and the world. australia is supporting the efforts of the iraqi security forces who are making gains against daesh through our military contribution to the global counter daesh coalition. we are also working to prevent daesh financing and recruiting and the spread of its ideology.
a military victory against daesh will not be enough. we must hold individual daesh terrorists, including foreign terrorists fighters from across the globe to account for the terrible crimes. as a member of the u.n. security council in 2013-2014, australia supported vigorously attempts to further crisis in syria to the international criminal court, including through a draft resolution that strongly condemned abuses by nonstate armed groups. regrettably, this draft resolution was vetoed. we continued to call on the security council to fulfill its duty and its obligation and ensure that those responsible for daesh's atrocities do not escape justice. is an important factor in establishing lasting peace based on respect for human rights and
the rule of law. australia supports organizations undertaking important work on international criminal justice, including justice rapid response and the collision for the international criminal court. all perpetrators of serious international crimes must be held to account. this means investigating and where appropriate prosecuting such persons in accordance with international standards. australia has enhanced domestic criminal laws to better enable the gathering of evidence and prosecutions against returning foreign terrorist fighters. australia strongly supports the initiative of belgian iraq and the united kingdom to hold daesh responsible for the crimes it has committed in syria and iraq. the humanitarian toll caused by daesh is staggering. australia has responded with funding and offers of permanent resettlement for thousands of displaced vulnerable people from syria and iraq, particularly prosecuted minority, women, children, and families who had
the least prospect of ever returning to their homes. and this includes offers of permanent resettlement to yazidis from iraq and syria, christians among others. it is absolutely vital that we remain united and committed to holding these perpetrators to account so that justice does prevail and that we reject for all time the barbarity of daesh. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, minister. and could i just remind participants we only have about ten minutes left. and we still have quite a few speakers. the problem getting into the room. but i suspect there will be an invasion also if we don't get out of this room on time. so i now call on the foreign minister of senegal.
i now call on the minister of foreign affairs in hungary. >> thank you very much. thank you very much for putting together this panel. here i don't want the speak as a representative of a european country which has been hit by migration, which is partly because of activities of isis. but i would like to speak as a representative of a christian country. and i totally agree with mrs. murad saying we have to name things as they are. instead of hypocrisy and political correctness, we have to call challenges and things as they are. and i would like to emphasize that according to our understanding in hungary, isis is a threat on the christian civilization. and here i would like to share an enormous concern that the persecution of christian communities in the middle east region is a development which the world has to address finally. unfortunately, so far we were a little bit hypocratic on that. when we started to speak about
persecution of christian communities, we were always said oh, look, let's speak about religious minorities, which is right. we have to speak than as well. but we have to be very honest as a representative of a christian country that isis is a threat to the christian communities and the christian civilization. and from this position, i would like to say ibrahim that crimes against the christian communities must not remain unpunished. and after any crimes against christian communities, we have turned to the international criminal court. and regrettably i have to tell you that no response have arrived. we have turned to the prosecutor general of icc in order to investigate the crimes against christians. no response. and i think it's totally unacceptable from officials not to react on such kind of issues. we were among those countries who turned to security council in order to cite these issues to
icc. and now i think it's time to renew this issue. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, minister. i now call on the deputy foreign minister of afghanistan. >> can you hear me? >> yes. i can for sure. >> let me start by thanking the foreign minute stories of belgium, the united kingdom and iraq for the opening remarks and obviously for hosting this event. let me also say that as someone coming from afghanistan, who has seen brutality and violence for the last three and a half decades, i was really inspired an moved by the courage of ms. murad. as a human being, i not only sympathize with you, but i think supporting this initiative as
human, it's the right thing to do. and this is why afghanistan will support this initiative, to make sure daesh is brought to justice, and particularly the perpetrators. in addition, daesh is not something that is operating in iraq and syria. daesh is now a very serious threat to south asia and central asia. it is now particularly recruiting. it is brainwashing the youth of south asia. and it's also creating division between different ethnic groups. for us specifically, there is a very serious concerns because there is an enormous amount of resources that are coming to the fighters of daesh. and that is something that we worry about. in conclusion, the one point that i would like to make is that individually as a country, we cannot deal with daesh. and this is why i think coming together and sharing experiences with one another is the best way to move forward. thank you. [ applause ]
>> thank you, minister. and i now call on the deputy -- sorry, the deputy foreign minister of norway. >> thank you, and thank you to our hosts. it is crucial to show that parties to the conflict, including isil cannot act with impunity. we owe it to nadia murad and all the others who have suffered under their yoke. norway is making significant contribution in the region. and one of our priorities is empowering the survivors of isis crimes such as nadia. we support several projects aimed at rehabilitation and reintegration of conflict-related sexual and gender-based violence survivors. their families and communities. and i'm pleased to say that we
are planning and near doubling resources in syria and iraq for 2017, almost 50 million u.s. dollars. norway has supported the commission for international justice and accountability. and since 2014, we have advocated that the security council should refer the situation in syria to the icc, and that international crimes committed by actors on all sides of the conflict should be investigated. and we still stand by this demand. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, minister. i now call on the u.s. undersecretary for civilian security, democracy and human rights. >> thank you. secretary kerry has concluded that daesh is responsible for committing acts of genocide and crimes against humanity. and as such, the international
community must marshall the same determination to bring justice to daesh perpetrators that we do to secure victory on the battlefield. we need not wait in the pursuit of justice. already the united states helps excavate and protect mass graves to document daesh's crimes. we support forensic teams to identify the missing. we use telemetry and geospatial analysis to find potential mass graves behind enemy lines. and we aid survivors of daesh's atrocities, including those who have suffered sexual and gender-based violence. ultimately, the full facts about daesh's atrocities must be brought to light by an independent investigation and formal legal determination by a competent court or tribunal. and we look forward to partnering with other governments to find the best
mechanism to insure truth and accountability. and however we proceed with this initiative, we must remember that daesh's crimes are not constrained by borders, and that daesh is not the only perpetrator of atrocities in the areas that are contested. so the united states supports efforts to hold accountable all perpetrators of atrocities, regardless of their creator affiliation through fair, credible trials in iraq, syria, and beyond. this is essential because where justice is absent or where it only applies to some, that's where violate extremism can take root and grow. and the promotion of justice is therefore not only a moral imperative, but a strategic imperative. together we must build political will, strengthen the relevant institutions, and empower the brave individuals like ms. murad to show daesh and to show others
who would perpetrator atrocities that justice is never beyond reach. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you for that. for those remarks. and i now call on the deputy undersecretary for the minister of foreign affairs of turkey. >> thank you. mr. chair, i'd like to first thank the foreign minute stories of belgium, iraq, and uk for taking this initiative. as turkey, we are fighting on different fronts. not only against daesh, but al qaeda, pkk, ypg. and we think that we would like to regulate that. a terrorist group cannot be regarded legitimately just because it fights another terrorist group. and we've been for the past five years we've been underlying this
in order to protect our military victory against daesh, we must ensure that all grievances are remedied and new fault lines be avoided. we are fighting militarily against daesh. we are cooperating very closely with our coalition partners. and recently with -- we have had positive results from operation euphrates shield. we have been successful in sealing our border with syria almost 100 kilometers of our border is completely sealed now. but we have to continue our fight militarily. but at the same time, we have to bring these terrorists before justice. we have so far detained close to
4,000 people. 1,700 of them are foreigners. and bringing these terrorists before justice is our priority. but putting them in prison is not the end of the story. we need to develop good monitoring and even better deradicalization and rehabilitation capacities. this morning we were discussing this within the context of jctf discussions. the prevention. go to the root causes of this. because if you don't do this, then new daesh terrorist groups can come to life. so last but not least, we should collectively promote, strengthen the resiliency now so societies against xenophobia and sectarianism that feeds on and
manipulates the fear from daesh terrorism both in the west and the east. thank you. [ applause ] >> we're very close to being out of time. but we're now a couple of speakers left. we're going to hear from the eu counterterrorism coordinator. >> nadia -- does it work? i'm very moved by your testimony. but even more impressed by your moral leadership. fully support your initiative, ministers. we have to do it for the sake of justice. we owe that to the victims, to society, to the families. but we have to do it for the sake of -- by doing that, we deglamourize the daesh rhetoric. and we show that these people are ugly criminals. so just an additional argument. eu does its maximum to help you in this respect by pushing our
member states to have the most up to date legislation covering all aspect of terrorism, by increasing information sharing between security service and law enforcement agency and maximizing different agency, euro poll, by the way, eurodres has a network. and finally by helping countries to build their capability. we are helping iraq. well tried to help to secure evidence in syria. but i just want -- and i be short -- mentioning two challenges we will have to collectively address. first, have a better access to digital evidence. because in most cases, the only evidence we have to show that someone was fighting alongside daesh is a digital, an e evidence. and we have to make it easier and faster to get access to this evidence. and the second one is we have to define a criminal way to handle the written if and when there will be an agreement in syria, we will have to handle that in a
better way. we left the mujahedeen delayed '80s which is the start of the problem that we are facing today. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> thank you for that. i now call on my friend and colleague the secretary general of amnesty international. >> thank you, simon. and new to the organizers of the event for giving me an opportunity to speak here. we have issued a joint statement from yazda, which is a yazidi organization working with nadia, with some other colleagues about which. it's gone online and please do look at that. i'm speaking specifically as amnesty international here. i was recently given access to iraq. and i thank the foreign minister and the prime minister for that. i had an opportunity to hear it on fallujah and also in the kurdish region directly from victims and survivors from the yazidi community and others on
how much the brutality of the so-called islamic state has affected them. unfortunately, those yazidi women, girls who escaped have not got the kind of support that they need either. so there are many, many challenges. and there is no question that there is a widespread breakdown in trust. the yazidi community feel that those who have to protect them are not protecting them. so we have a big, big challenge. just to give you an example, basima, a 34-year-old mother is in indefinite detention by the kurdish regional government since 2014 because she is accused of complicity with the islamic state. so it's absolutely right that the islamic state is held to account for their crimes against the yazidi community. but also far beyond that. but we know for a fact that accountability cannot be partial. accountability of authority in iraq and syria is equally important because the cri