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tv   Brown v. Board of Education Opportunity and Integration  CSPAN  June 6, 2017 8:43am-10:03am EDT

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i think that the united states, we are positioned to be on the cuts edge where communities are not ethnically exclusive. that's historically new. it's not something you find as you look back in history. i'm very excited to help position us on a new kind of organizing society where communities are not ethnically bounded. i think it's a great thing for school choice to be doing. >> thank you very much.
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>> let me start here by saying thank you for inviting me to this wonderful conversation. as i was thinking about this panel i reflected on my own personal, how i even got here. i have an identical twin sister we were in new jersey which is a majority white community. my family had just moved out of philadelphia and they wanted a better school option for us. my mother took us out of public school and put us into private school. i think that has made all of the difference for us and it's why i'm a huge proponent. i think every parent should be
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able to choose what school or what environment, like how do you best meet the needs of each individual child. fast forward, as was previously mentioned, i was the ceo of the charter school fund. i am a new jersey girl born and raised and now as i moved back to washington d.c. where my husband is a sixth generation washingtonian. whether it is the local city, local state, the data or narrative, it really comes down to what's happening locally. about two years ago i went out to silicon valley with all of the entrepreneurs. they do things differently out there. the ceo of thumb tack said i hear this debate about k12,
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about college, but this is the reality. if we are not preparing every single one of our students for their academic life, economic life and their life to be citizens in this global world then we are not doing our job. as i think about the purpose where we are now, my mission is to make sure every children can have a well rounded life. i'm opening a school in d.c. which is almost 100% african american. if we want to talk about data in terms of -- you're saying if white parents want to come to southeast d.c., great.
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i don't think they are coming until the schools and neighborhoods are safe. again, to be in two cities, new jersey and washington d.c. where we have a thriving charter sector. my perspective is those are false debates. every parent wants a great school. they don't care if it is a traditional public school. that's what we heard from the last panel. the other data point i want to reflect on is in the last panel he talked about being in the second wave of students post ground board of education. she described her experience as being invisible.
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that's how the students that are dropping out of school today feel, invisible. the question is how do we meet the needs of every student today. we just heard cell phones go off. our students are digital natives and that's why i'm excited to launch a school that's focused computer science. >> can i enroll? >> absolutely. can you teach is the question. >> thank you. we want you to get engaged. i will ask a question that follows up directly on yours.
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you said you're from a district that's 100%. if you're meeting the individual needs of every child is it okay to have a school that is 100% minority? is that okay? >> i mean to me it's the wrong question. how do we meet the needs of individual students. when we look at the portfolio of schools are they all the same model or do we give students real choices? i rescently it's this idea there is no average student. there is no one size fits all. the more we treat individual dhirn as an average we'll do one of two things. one, we'll miss their talents or we'll bore them to death.
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maybe school is an online activity. i think it's the wrong question to be thinking about today. >> so next question is thinking about that, what is the role of government in this conversation. there are a lot of trends of mine and yours who argue that the system is actually doing what it's intended to do is that true and what is the proper role in this discussion? >> sure. i want to go back to your first question. they go hand in hand. the question is it okay? it depends who you ask. if you ask gary he will say absolutely not. he has been pretty clear about that. if i ask richard he said not great but i would like to see
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much more economic integration. i would say okay. what about public high school here in washington d.c.? a number of students are going to the military and starting businesses and have jobs. the question isn't segregation today, tomorrow and forever. it's education today, tomorrow and forever. that's what matters to me. what it can play is a small key part. if you have community members who say we choose to move to a neighborhood, let it happen. i see her in the back. she worked in massachusetts. they have a controlled-choice program. people decided i will move to
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cambridge and participate in the program to make it happen. the second oldest solitary integration is the program founded by black parents in 1966 they created project saying we'll give you financial resources and even work with the law to make it happen. so when people want to get involved i think the government should have a heavy hand. it can play discrimination as well as intervention as well as innovation. >> here is an experiment you can do on your own to confirm this. bring up a map of manhattan where the neighborhoods are color coded and then bring up a
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map of the school districts in manhattan. put those on your monitor next to each other and look how they do little loops and stuff. in order to make sure that the school district stays tracked with ethnic competition. partly it is an ongoing continuing problem with people who don't want their kids mixing with certain other kids. school choice is public policy. it involves taking public funds and devoting it to education. some people are against school choice because they don't like that the government is going to do this but i'm all for it. as to your other question regarding is it okay, i think is it okay is probably not the
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right way to frame it. i think policy is about tradeoffs. it's not do we want literacy or do we want citizenship education? obviously we want both. the question is how do we prioritize both. they begin to drop off and other people whom priorities are out of wlhack. should it be a priority or should we pursue and be indifferent to the student body. so i wouldn't want to say well, let's sacrifice all other priorities and let's not care whether kids learn to read and write because everything must be sacrificed into desegregation, the only thing we care about.
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i actually think one of the things we should want is for our children to form a common bond. i think it doesn't have to be limited to government schools either. it's a whole research question we could talk about. i think part should be to create a common bond among people who are not like one another. it's a reason why it should be a goal of our education system. >> can you quickly follow up and quickly go into that research, very quickly. >> sure. there have been a number of studies on tolerance on the rights of others. this is in the education studies that has gone back decades. the instrument they use is they ask a student to identify your most disliked group. people will name everything
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from, you know, republicans or democrats. they will say we evangelical christians. you get questions, should people be allowed to vote, be allowed to have a demonstration on main street, be allowed to have a book in their view. private school students score a little better on that than public school opportunistudents. they do a better job to tolerate the rights of others. >> it matters a lot to desegregation. take the term ethnicity. it meant many different things in many different times. today we often mean nonblack.
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they are from other countries where they speak more than one language. often it meant you spoke another language other than english. the italians were ethnic at one time. and so the ethnicity thing is very particularly since the largest would be not hispanics but people of german decent. as we unpack what it means to be an ethnic group even the term black is interesting is much more encome passing. some of them choose not to put their kids in title one schools but also we never say the white schools are segregated. it's the black schools bearing the burden. we don't say the white schools are. what do we say about jefferson where majority of the students are asian. is that a segregated school?
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>> really quick, you know, the idea though back then was about resources. we have beautiful buildings and all of the books. the kids can't read or write. i think it's important to put it in the context and i think education is the civil rights for our generation. we must make sure every student has access and that we are meeting the needs of individual students. i generally believe our students have expertise in different areas. right now we treat brilliance as a single test score. >> i couldn't agree with you more on that one. >> and this is a challenging environment right now. how do we breakthrough the
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barrier around this issue or how can we have this discussion in a bipartisan way so we begin to break down the idealologies? >> so i am less interested in nonpartisan ship because it will be tough to have. i'm more willing to what i call coalitions of convenience. it's just fine in an area where we can make it convenient and work from there. >> so this is why i'm actually starting the school. i was honestly tired of the debate happening before this past november to what's happening now because as i have said, there are students literally in school who are checked out, who are dropping out, who need all of us to be doing everything we can to help move them forward and the intellectual debate is what's
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stopping them. i do think as my mentor taught me very well which is finding this strip of community. how do we move this forward? i think of all politics being local. i think the national debate can get exhausted and nauseating. if you're going down to d.c. or really getting involved into that local conversation i think is the only way to do it. >> i think a lot of the way we accomplish that is by using new language. language comes with a lot of baggage. do you can't always unpack the baggage and explain it. i think the school choit is overinve overinvested. i don't think we need to unsay anything we have said. i don't think anything we we have said is wrong per se but we haven't stopped and said when we
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say that what we mean is this. the language is heard very differently by people who have a different language word. i think in this and many other places finding new words to describe thing wills help create coalition of convenience. i think it's to distance ourselves from anything that will taint the school choice cause. i think in the real world you do have to work with policymakers and policymakers are who they are and particularly here in america we have a long tradition of being realistic. but that having been said it's incouple want on us to prioritize coalitions across boundaries, coalitions across ethnic boundaries, across party
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affiliation. i think it's necessary if school choice is going to be the future of american education and not just another policy fad that's here today and gone tomorrow because somebody got elected. >> thank you very much. we want to have lots of questions. please open them up and ask a question. let's go from there. >> good afternoon. thank you very much for your comments. i have three questions that i will ask real quickly. number one, you talked about the districts in manhattan. when i look at the districts in washington d washington d.c. i see the same thing. has anything been done to look at economic segregation? that's my first question. second question is what will the
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impact of the u.s. district court's decision have on public schools? third question, finally, is in light of trump's budget, and assuming, because they have said it is dead on arrival, but assuming that it passes, what will the impact have on public education and the goals of public education. >> i can answer is first question. >> go ahead. >> i'm not a lawyer or budge analyst. i will plead i don't have the expertise on the other two but economic segregation is some times studied. it is not as frequently studied. there is not as large a body but it is studied.
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when there are fewer studies it's harder to generalize. number 2 only 10 fkt comes from the federal government. most of it will come state and local. it's about 45.2 and the rest will have an impact if it goes through. it is taken away from funds or after school programs, that will have a tremendous impact. and also some of the loan money. the third case, the case that
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you mentioned -- i will try to get to it later. >> no. i was just going to say all politics are local. i do -- i am deeply concerned about the budget. it supports me who is starting a new charter school. it is impacting our families and the services that they received. you can't have one or the other. i think we have to continue to advocate. this is where the local organizations that have been doing this work for years, i think we have to rally together and leverage all of the resources we have to make sure our families get those services.
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it's part of a longer tradition connected to urban areas. [ inaudible question ] that's bigger part going in there too but we should always -- yeah, that's a big issue. >> it was for an ability to be
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part of a kplcommunity. every kind of person has a seat at the table in our democracy. so i want to ask you about children of color with disabilities who are really impacted by some of these decisions to see what kind of data that you're seeing. the best private schools in washington will not accept children with significant disabilities and the charter schools around the country in many cases are not responsive to the needs of children with more involved disabilities, many of whom may have the strongest talents and abilities of any of the youth in america. so what are your ideas about advancing opportunities for children of color with disabilities? >> well, i have done several studies and while it's true that school choice takes away the
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legal system or doesn't take away -- but if you use school choice you're no longer part of the legal system that allows you to sue your school for services. students have consistently reported they receive better services and also better conditions like they are not bullied or attacked at school as often, that's one of the most dramatic differences. the concerns that have been raised about students with disabilities not being able to find slots in public schools don't seem to have materialized. people have come forward and said we can't find the school. given the large number of school choices that specifically served large population of students with special needs it doesn't seem to have materialized in the act dh actual programs. >> awesome.
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before you go online of the 61 programs of school choice but of the private school choice side almost half of them are serving special needs kids. there has been a dramatic growth in the number of private scholarship programs. >> well, i started my career off as a special education teacher. as i'm starting this school all of my work has been lead by a simple motto which is good teaching is good teaching. that being said i recently joined the board of national center for charter schools and special education to make sure we are advocating on two fronts. a lot of schools, when it comes to special education the majority of their time is focused on compliance and not actually services. so i think to the extent that we can really make sure that our schools are given the tools, the
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resources to shift away from compliants. it allows for more personalization and i think we'll be able to move to ball forward. i think they are inan dated with lawsuits, some of them well deserving, some of them not. the idea that a school leader has to spend more time versus how do we meet the individual neat needs of students i think that's why they are not being served today. >> my name is gregory clay. my question simply is what do you think of devoss? >> i have known her for ten years. i worked with her before she was a public figure a.
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i know her shaheart is committeo helping all kids. i also know that she wants to make sure that we spread the pot. most of the conversation has been about school choice. i understand people hear charters. there will come a point where there is more about public schools but her intention is not to detroy public education. >> i don't know her but i know there are no permanent friends or interests. we have to find ways to whoever has the biggest pot of resources because our students require it. >> well, and if the decent people refuse to serve in public office, that leaves the indecent people to serve. i don't want to attack somebody for taking a position. >> thank you.
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>> my question today is what impact is the extent have to do with enrollment, persistence and completion. >> okay. >> any comments? >> most of my research is on k12 education. i'm hesitant to say too much in a field i know less about but i have looked at college entrance and the college entrance rates in the united states today track pretty closely to graduation from high school with certain course requirements. we heard this morning if you want your child to go to college you need to start taking algebra and do this and do this. the u.s. department of education keeps fairly good data from a really good sample of high school students looking at what
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courses they have taken. it allows us to ask how many students graduate with the courses that they would need to go to college and then we can compare that to how many new freshmen enter college and they track pretty closely. i have not broken that down by ethnicity. college entrance data are harder to break down. they have specialists in that field. i don't happen to be one of them. >> we want more to go to high performing schools and to qualify for scholarships. one thing we need to do is preparing students to become national achievement scholars and allowing it which we don't talk about until after the pafa. that's part one. students are enrolling immediately in noncollege bearing remedial courses.
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they haare spending in course tt is do not count towards graduation. we just spent millions of dollars, we gave you a high school di blow plploma. we said you're college and career ready. we can back wards map today to find out what you need to be successful while it will not guarantee whether or not you'll graduate it will minimize that you'll go into remediation. we should definitely have a conversation about that. >> there is one data point that might -- children in the program tend to graduate at higher rates than their peers and they tend to enter college at higher rates. it's important to know.
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>>. >> thank you for your question. >> i wanted to ask to your point earlier about having convenience points. if we take out all of the other things i know if i go to an event they will ask me what are my food allergies so you know the difference and what people are coming to the table needing and wanting. if you don't want to have people around the things of convenience what are the points that people should be having conversation around? >> one go to a question of whether we should give public money to religious schools. thomas jefferson's wall of separation. i have a lot of friends that say you like vouchers in the early years because it went to priv e
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private. they say we know it comes from 1802 in connecticut. we have got to be clear. are you for public money going to religious schools? if it's only independent here is another. another question is should it go to schools that have had a history of segregation? this gets real interesting because states began to pass laws. they were saying there's no way we are going let these other people come to school. 101 members of congress signed the southern manifesto. the southern private school movement as we know it today has many of its roots in what i call fear-based free dm dom of choic. if you say we pray, we cry, with
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reforgiven. there are others who say i believe that's another coalition. so for me those would be two we have to start with from the beginning. >> some times it's us who are framing that question. we should take it to the students and families that we want to serve. you know, when i sat down with my students i said design the middle school of the future. like what is most important to you? that is actually one of our score believes which is for every student and adult to feel known, loved and respected. they want to make sure they are getting a high quality education. he talks about getting -- you know, in order to be partnered
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we have to ask them the questions. so either you can say let's only give money to low income families so we can equalize it or give it to everyone and get rid of the entire system. that's a very different coalition. >> thank you so much. >> hi there. i'm with american institutes for research. i was wondering if you could speak to the role that industry plays when it comes to educating students in communities of color. i'm really interested in terms of how they can make a positive and sustainable change or how
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they have and then what are some of the things we need to be concerned about when we think about industry and education. >> so you have local chamber of commerce members. this happened back in atlanta. d.c. over the last 25 years had a number of corporate people who were involved. some also have a principal for the day program. the number of executives who have done that and i think i didn't realize principals had it this hard. in the private school sector it called -- they partnered with the segment of urban or some suburban churches to get more african americans and others. so bp and us partnered together. this is a great time for all of the money that we pay in buying
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products. trust me, we should have them become more involved not dictating but being a big key partner. >> one of the reasons we are launching digital pioneer academy, the data said there are high demand jobs and we have a huge talent supply. so we want to close that gap. what typically happens is we say okay. we are going to prepare our students to go into the job but we don't talk to the industry. we don't talk to the heads of hr or talk to colleges around what's the continuum. i think it's a missed opportunity. we have to help students navigate this world to get to each step and so again, it goes to to me personalization but
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makes the connections to industry, college and to k12. >> if i could make three quick points to add to that, one interesting example is where we have a group of business leaders that have gotten together and they have getting the ceo's on one hand and schools on the other hand and they are bridging the gap between what they say they need and what these folks are providing. they are trying to align it much better. i don't know if you have ever seen these schools. it's an amazing model of schools. the families all low income, it's only serving low income families. every friday they don't go to school. they go to work at a business. the business actually supports the school. by the end of the four years almost all of them get jobs. it works really well. more is the first thing. >> john wolf, i have two
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questions. will your digital academy prestudents for college as well as the world of work? in this technological age we not only need the -- all of those college educated people but there was something about a turbine building company. will you also be focused on that or will it be part of your program not necessarily a focus? >> sure. it is unapologetic college prep. that is because 76% of the jobs require some secondary education. to say whether you're college prep por not is a false choice to me. i do think in our school we will provide students access to internships so they can be exposed to all of their students but also have a real skill
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coming out of -- we will be a high school. they have a real skill that can help them earn resources. i'm working with a group of ninth graders. on the side they are developing web sites. so that's the type of skill and access to the economic opportunities that we want to provide our students. >> one place i may disagree is that i think we focus too much on telling kids they have to go to college. it's either yale or jail. i would like to say our kids are career and college ready. if we are saying college it's not only four-year. it could be license or certificate. >> it does speak to the issue of parental choice. my mother and father say i have to go to school. the state says i have to go to school until 12th grade.
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what happens to my choice? nobody has spoken to that issue really. >> your choice as you? >> you can emancipate in eacertn states. >> that's true but does the system provide for that in a pervasive way? >> not yet. >> that's a complicating factor. my second question is to dr. forester. can you direct us to any sources that deal with the analysis of this spectrum of data that's a multianalysis that controls for the variables which you have eluded and provide us with a clear view such as the ethnicity thing that you did with manhattan. are there other studies like that? i think for those of us who are out in the field we need a clearer picture. we don't need one slanted one way or another.
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we need to be able to see them and draw from them those inferences that lead us to making the right policy decisions. >> so you're asking me to advertise my work? i would love to do that. the studies on how school choice programs are collected or overviewed in a report that we published called a win-win solution. if you just google my name and win-win solution you'll find that. those have links to the actual studies. those are multi-varied analysis. on the way boundary lines go around. that's tough and i'm not promising i could pull it off. >> it would include economic as
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well as health? >> i'm not sure how health can be slinvolved. >> there is a guy named tom stewart. he works with a gentleman named patrick wolf. they published a book called the school choice journey. a lot of good information he graduated and he is the first to earn a from harvard. >> i have another study i have to take care of here. >> my name is dolores reyes. i have a consulting group. my specialty is department of
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defense. so the department of defense scheduled to have 334 to be built in the military. subsequently there are so many job opportunities for people in trades. if you're in the shipbuilding industry they need a lot of people, electricians, etcetera. what are we going for people that want to be in the trades? what are you going to help who need all of these people. they need them now. we need to find out what are you doing to prepare them for other types of work other than going to a university but into trades. thank you. >> in virginia i think it's
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there they have a program for students who want to go actually learn a different type of jobs you have for that company. it has been around for a number of years. p they walk away with a high school diploma and a job offer. so that's one program in place in virginia that's having a good impact. >> the answer would be not enough and two quick stories. one, i was just with an administrator. we were talking about this issue. the other thing, there's a charter school we worked with that is graduating kids from
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high school. they are graduating at the same time with both of them. there are some out there. >> can i get in? >> absolutely. >> i had many questions about how can we connect education to the jobs people are going out to after they get education? we have inherited particularly an education reform movement that's very focused on am demic achievement and even when it's not specifically college it's sort of we want high standards but they are not to everything. i think part of what that comes from is they were being used. you had a vocational track and
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an academic track. it was for the darker skinned people. it was completely a confidence game. it did nothing to give you reading and writing and a well balanced education and arts and literature that all people -- i mean you may not be going college but everybody needs a well rounded education that includes more than just how to do a job. one thing that i'm hopeful about, there will be more opportunity to build more education that isn't beholden to some that will have another agenda. >> thank you very much. >> hi. greg, i'm really glad you raised that. we have to be careful not to say or and remember that we don't
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just want robust system. the very people that make these decisions are the people who are not qualified for their job to begin with. i think there's a cautionary tale here. all of our students should be encouraged to aspire to a higher education and the career and college ready piece, i guess my question is this, how much do we really believe those career ready standards are actually truly about exceptional education? or have we given the wonderful business community who i think we absolutely need the opportunity simply to place jobs? where do we make those distinctions so we don't have this conversation ten years from now where we just basically stockpiled a bunch of jobs.
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i got news for you, i didn't say to any of my kids, you should go a career. i suspect for virginia and other people there's no question they want their kids to go to college. how do we do that potential for lower standards with a very important point made which is there are jobs out there that we can't fill? >> let me start with the first example. my son who has special needs wants to be a firefighter, which is a great ultimately long well paying job. there was no way he wasn't going to get a four-year degree before he became a firefighter. my plan was to get him into the school of public safety so he has greater options at the end of it. that's the way i looked at college for more son, greater options so he could go do the fire fighting degree.
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so if it doesn't work out he has something else to fall back on. >> so agree with you, some businesses come to the table just to fill jobs. i get it. some of needle more than others. virginia and florida, their business councils have done exceptional work. i use career because i'm open for another word. if we want to change it, had that's fine. 50% of the jobs that will exist 15 years from now don't exist today. and the concept of what work means will be radically different. i'm open to change career. i don't want to lead with college. >> he points out the world career, it's from a french world that means running in circles. how much that resonates from you i think we can tell from the reaction in the room. we have a false choice we're presented in the current form of the education reform move. a false choice between academic
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excellence and pragmatic useful education. and the people who want academic excellence are phobic of anything that sounds pragmatic because that's an excuse not to teach people squm. the pragmatic people are phobic of academics because you won't use it. part of what drives the false divide is standardization. we need to have standards. if we're going to have centralized standards for measuring a good education they have to be either reduced to test scores or reduced today 21st century skills or some other list we can write up. the closer we keep education to parents and to local community, the more we can define what is a good education in a way that combines academic excellence and pragmatic usefulness. remember that pragmatic usefulness is not the same as learning the particular skill of a particular job opening that a particular employer wants you to have. >> as long as local is not
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parochial. meaning going to be involved in the global, but i'm fine with that. >> the only thing i would add, i referenced the end of average. he talks about the airplane -- the cockpits in 1950 where they were all one size. the idea of an adjustable car seat. every person has to have the adjustable seat to get them where they want to go. college and/or career. if you talk to any student today, they do not want to be told which career path to go to. and i think this is the broader point is that, you know, my parents just said go to college. they were -- i was first generation college so they didn't care where i went they just said go. i think our students today have more access to information through technology, they have more big ideas about what they want to achieve. so our job is to give them the adjustable car seat to get there. >> awesome.
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we're going to give johnny taylor the last question. >> the only reason i'm last is because this is a question my staff wouldn't step up to ask. and i promised i'd ask it if it wasn't asked earlier. we romant gicize and rewrite history often. we talk about the good old days and how wonderful it was in segregated black america. our earlier panel said it was fwr great then. we talk about it a lot. and people say it was so great, is there any objective data out there that says we really were performing -- when i say segregated i'm speaking specifically african-american community for purposes of looking back to 1954. i don't know. >> we do have some measurements but they're imperfect. the best measurement that we have going back that far and it actually goes a lot further back
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is high school graduation. high school graduation is about 2% at the turn of the century and rises steadily over the course of the 20th century until it reaches the high 70s in the 1970's. it's been plateaued since then. from the 50s to the 70s we were continuing the progress we had been making for some time on high school graduation. high school graduation is easy to measure. it's great, we researchers know it. deplo diplom diplomas, we know how many we gave out. the high standardized testing only goes to the 70s. from the 70s it's fairly flat for 12th graders. there's fluctuations at 4th and 8th grade but i think those are less important. if you have it go up in 4th grade but by the time they get to 12th grade the rise has disappeared.
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i'm not sure what you accomplished. i look at 12th grade test scores. and scores from the 70s on reading and math are flat. they're really flat over that period. the other measurement we have that can go back to the 50s is the s.a.t. we have the s.a.t. back to the 50s. there's a fairly significant increase in s.a.t. scores in the 50s and it plateaued in the 60s and then it's flat from there. but the s.a.t. is extremely controversial to use as a measurement of academic success and it's generally not used because it's too controversial. >> my father was born in 1913. he saw real segregation in charleston, west virginia. i would never romant gicize what it was like. to get to that point since we're in d.c. take a look at the history of dunbar high school in this city. founded in the late 19th century.
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the number of people they produced who became cabinet level secretaries, principals, doctors are, who went to to the ivy league schools, it was arguably the first black public high school in the country. that's questionable. for the sake of argument, let's say that's true. take a look at what they were doing in the 1890s. thomas sowell callwrote a piece. what happened before brown and after brown. but there was a time in this city where an all black school and a number of those people were not our kind of people. they were what we call regular folk. who did extraordinary things in a public school in this city. [ inaudible question ] >> that's it. last couple of years it's come out. i wish they'd take a look at that.
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very interesting reading. >> these are great questions, thank you very much. in case you missed it, on cspan, veterans affairs secretary david shulkin on the va. >> 20 veterans a day are dying by suicide. this is a national public health crisis and requires solutions that not only va will work on but all of government and other partnerships in the private sector, non-profit organizations. >> fordham university law professor on corruption in the u.s. government. >> it relates to the incredible class we have in this country. and mark twain writes about this in his novel, the guilded age. the two different languages of corruption that happen in the late 19th century. where elites start to say this isn't really corrupt. this is just the way we do things. and everybody else, you know,
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walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck. >> bridge usa founder talks about free speech and censorship on college campuses. >> call it a de facto tax on free speech, i kind of agree with him. i do agree that they're being placed in a tricky position when they can't invite the speakers they want to speak because there will be violence. to greg's point, i think that when you give into threats, you know, when you give threats, you are basically allowing the violent agitators to be successful. that's a dangerous precedent to speak. >> and hillary clinton, talks about the 2016 presidential election and her upcoming book. >> you may think you know what happened. and you may be right to a certain extent, based on what you've perceived and how you
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process it. i'm going to tell you how i saw it and what i felt and what i thought. because you cannot make up what happened. >> cspan programs are available at on our home page and by searching the video library. sunday night on after words. new america president and ceo ann marie slaughter examines global networking in the digital age in her book the chessboard and the web. ms. slaughter is interviewed by dennis mcdonough. former white house chief of staff in the obama administration from 2013 to 2016. >> what would strike me was that we knew there was a world of states and state threats, today if you think about north korea or iran or sometimes china and
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russia, that world of state to state relations is still very, very important. and i think of it as the chessboard world. it's the world of how do we essentially beat our adversaries and we think about a move and we try to anticipate what move they're going to make. and that world is there and it's very important. but equally important is what i call the world of the web. that world of criminal networks, including terrorists, but also arms traffickers and drug traffickers. the world of business, which increasingly big network supply chains, global corporations. and the world of non-governmental organizations. i think of all those actors as web actors as increasingly important actors. but we don't have strategies for how to bring them together. >> watch after words, sunday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on cspan 2's book tv.
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and the witness table here inside the senate appropriations subcommittee room, education secretary, betsy devos taking questions this morning on the president's 2018 budget request. which calls for a nearly 14% cut in federal spending on education. some of the savings would go to school choice programs and some of the programs that have been recommended for cuts include federal student aid, teacher training, after school programs and literacy programs. the subcommittee is headed by ray blunt, of missouri.
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