tv Declaration of Independence Manuscript Discovery CSPAN August 19, 2017 11:05am-12:11pm EDT
sniper fire. zero snipers were ever found. no evidence of any snipers. no gun shells other than police gun shells. no footprints, no fingerprints, nothing was found. killed,26 people were all by the three police forces that were operating. >> american history tv, all weekend, every weekend, only on c-span3. >> up next on american history tv, harvard university researchers daniel allen and emily smith talk about their discovery of 18th-century declaration of independence parchment manuscript. the american document was found in england and researchers named at the sussex declaration. it's only the second handwritten parchment of the declaration
known in the world. the other known copies of the national archives, where this 60 minute program takes lace. -- takes place. >> two days ago, our nation celebrated independence day, the 241st anniversary of the day the continental congress adopted the declaration of independence and broke ties with great britain. here are the national archives, we held a public reading of the declaration and celebrated this withay as we do every year music, speeches, and patriotic activities. july 4 is the single busiest day for visitors to the national archives museum. on that day, more than 5000 people come to the rotunda to see the actual parchment document signed by delegates to the continental congress in 1776. just the you know, today is the last day we extended museum hours till 7:00 p.m. the parchment sheet on display upstairs though no much fêted is
the original official version of the declaration of independence. many versions have sense been broadside andap on paper of july 4, 1776 and several facsimile reproductions made in the early 1800s. today we hear about a copy of the declaration of independence recently uncovered by our two allen and emily sneff. is the same size as the original declaration on display and dates from the 1780's. another feature of the sussex declaration is the arrangement of the signatures not arranged by state delegation as they are on our declaration. and other early versions and danielle and theirwill give us isolation of what this may mean. i would like to knowledge to people in the audience who may
have perhaps the closest connections to the declaration of independence of anyone living. , wave your hands, they removed the declaration from its case and gave the beloved document its first conservation treatment in 50 years. marylin was chief of conservation at the national archives and kitty was deputy chief of conservation. their hands are the last two of touched the historic document. it's now my pleasure to introduce our two guests speakers, daniel allen -- danielle allen from harvard university, a political theorist . widely known for her work on justice and citizenship, alan is nhe author of several -- alle
is the author of several books. she's a member of the american academy of arts and sciences and the american philosophical society, and the society of american historians. she is also a contributing columnist for the "washington post." emily sneff was manager of the declaration resources project at harvard university. she's responsible for it administration, research, and web content in pursuit of the the project mission to create informative resources about the declaration. before joining the project, she was a member of the curatorial team at the american .hilosophical society please welcome danielle allen and emily sneff. [applause]
>> good afternoon. for joining us during this week of july 4 celebration. our mission is to create innovative and informative resources about the declaration of independence. dale: this has -- ms. sneff: this has included everything from mapping the dissemination to writing blog posts about the historical accuracy of movies that include the declaration, developing a videogame that encourages civic engagement among middle and high school students. our core scholarly project is the creation of a database of every known edition of the declaration of independence, both print and manuscript produced between 1776 and the 1820's.
so far, the database has over 500 different editions of the declaration of independence, including 156 copies produced in the united states alone from 7076 through 1800. it was in the course of this work that we uncovered the document we will be discussing today, the sussex declaration. brief overview and i would encourage anyone who is interested in learning more about the sussex declaration or the declaration resources project to visit our website, declaration. fas. harvard.edu. you'd also follow us on twitter. in august, 2015, we came across this document or the online catalog entry which read manuscript copy on parchment of the declaration in congress of the 13 united states. after requesting an image, i were able to take
our first look at what we now call the sussex declaration, named for west sussex, england, which you can see on this map is in the south of england. the document's house at the west sussex record office and it is worth noting that this type of discovery is really only possible through the digitization of catalogs. the whole thing at the west sussex record object are searchable through the u.k. national archives online catalog. the document was deposited at the west sussex record office in 1956 by mr. leslie holden, who worked for the local solicitor's office and was dedicated to learning about and preserving local history. holden's daughter generously gave us access to her father's journals and they confirm the following story that was originally relayed to us by a longtime archivist at the record office. in 1942, the solicitors firm for decided tong worked
give a number of papers to the paper salvage row graham in support of the war effort. holden took a look at the papers to be disposed of and was, as he wrote, completely astounded by what he discovered. a number of these papers of parchment were historically significant, and in his view, worth saving. with the permission of his superiors, he and two other local experts sifted through the papers, setting aside anything potentially important. the sussex declaration was most likely among these papers saved by holding and 14 years later, deposited at the west sussex record office. it's worth noting that the solicitors firm dates back to the 18th century. and theyy exist as fmr counter the duke of richmond among their clients. a number of papers deposited at the same time as the sussex declaration also relate to the duke. the state of the dukes of richmond is located just a few miles away of this record office
and as we revisit later, the third to give richmond earned the nickname the radical duke for his support in parliament of the american colonies. i will now briefly review the physical characteristics of this document and then danielle allen will discuss the probable circumstances of its production and the possible answer to the question of how it got to the u.k. declaration is a parchment manuscript copy of the declaration of independence, and both of those terms are important. there are other printed copies on parchment and there are other manuscript copies, typically on letter sized paper. the only other known parchment manuscript copy of the declaration of independence is in this building. we will refer to as the malloc declaration, inscribed by timothy malloc and signed by 56 delegates. , the inches by 30 inches
sussex declaration is the same size as the malloc declaration and as you can see is oriented horizontally. the sussex declaration is inscribed with the full text of the declaration of independence and the same title as the malloc congress, july 4, 1776, the unanimous declaration of the 13 united states of america. the title is ornate, but the rest of the document is a very legible round hand. this is distinct from the italic hand that malloc used. the right margin of the text is roughly justified and careful planning must have gone into the production of this document to ensure that the text would fit neatly and proportionately on the parchment sheet. the names of the 56 signers are listed at the bottom. it's important to note that not everyone signed the matlock declaration on august 2, 1776. one signer may have signed up to
a few years later. the fact that all 56 signers are listed on the sussex declaration is significant. let's take a closer look. within the body of the text, certain words are emphasized. cruelty and perfidy in this example. you can see the back of the parchment for which you can tell it was folded in quarto for a time before it's current fold. copy of thes a declaration of independence and we are in the national archive, it's important to say there is nothing on the back. a portion of the parchment has been scraped away to the right of the title. and a few other areas within the text have also been scraped away and rewritten. the parchment is in very good condition, apart from some rodent damage along the edges. there are preindustrial nail holes in the corner, indicating it was hung up at some point.
based on the horizontal orientation, the parallel lines around the edges, and a few other features, we believe this document was made in the tradition of property deeds and the credentials of delegates would provide upon their arrival in congress. size,ssex declarations legibility, and nail holes are evidence that this document was prepared for a public, not private purpose. for display, not merely reading. in the material evidence we have the declaration to the 1780's, but i believe was produced by a working in either new york or philadelphia. the list of names which is proving to the motion marble characteristic of this document. as you can see, several names are misspelled, in the sample, john thain, richard stored in, and john with her sport.
these cool to be achieved if the names were copied from signatures. additionally, the names are abbreviated as they appear in signatures. this means that the source text for the sussex declaration has to be the matlock declaration or another copy that replicates the signatures and such copies didn't exist until the 19th century. however, as you can see, the names are not in the same order as the matlock declaration. john hancock almost always listed first in his role as president of the continental congress is listed forth. matlock declaration, after hancock, the names proceed from right to left in state order from north to south, so josiah bartlett of new hampshire is at the top of the column for this to the right and george walton of georgia is at the bottom of the column for this to left.
the exception is matthew thornton, as there was no room left for him to sign with his colleagues from new hampshire. it's unusual for us to read from right to left, and it was unusual for the congress to sign a document in this way. previous documents including the olive branch petition which is included here have been signed in north to right. when mary catherine goddard printed the first broadside to include all of the names of the in januaryept mccain 1777, she maintained the state grouping but misinterpreted to north to south order. the state groupings are visually identifiable on the matlock and labeled and printings of the declarations of independence, including goddard broadside and the journals of the continental congress. , thee sussex declaration state groupings have been completely done away with. after trying to find some sort of pattern or reason for the
reordering of the names, we reached the conclusion that the names were intentionally intermingled. using the column order of the matlock declaration, names were picked from each column in a method that insured that the state grouping be obscured. the type of scrambling makes sense in an era where ciphers and codes were popular tools. the clerk who inscribed the sussex declaration used a combination of alternating columns and transposition to produce this new list. you can see small clusters of names from the furthest column to the right are intermingled with individual names from the other columns. this clever method allows for the intermingling of names while transcribing from a list that used to state groupings, all the while without losing track of any individual names. once we realize the names on the sussex declaration were intermingled, we had to ask the question -- why?
the answer lies with whoever commission the parchment. will explore the topic of moment but we want to mention a related document. only one other note edition of the declaration of independence lists name in the same order as the sussex declaration, this miniature engraving produced by lh version in boston in 1836. it is truly a miniature. you can to the text of the declaration fits within a three inch square. in addition, the placement of some of the names on the engraving above and below the writing line provides evidence that it was copied from the sussex declaration or a copy of it, not the other way around. i will no hand things over to to tacklellen question of who commissioned the sussex declaration. you, emily, and thank you all for joining us
today. when emily first identify the document and the archived in west sussex, she don't me the image and my response to her was holy history, batman. we had an obvious mystery on our hands we had to solve. emily just want you through the first mystery which was the dating of the document, to the 1780's. the second mystery was the names intermingling and the eradication of the conventional order by state grouping. to the question of who commissioned the sussex declaration and why. remember, as emily just pointed out, in the 1780's, the use would have been the available texts. they had been printed in newspapers, but those were ephemera. they belonged to the day they were not preserved commonly. you wouldn't have had access to
them if you wanted to see the text. you would have access to a broadside like mary catherine goddard's broadside, there was one for each state, or you had access to the records of the continental congress as printed by robert atkins and john dunlap. these two texts have the state ordered grouping with the state labels on them. have been you assignor of the declaration of this is what you had signed. how would you think of the relationship between these printed texts and what you signed, document where the state order had been somewhat obscured with right to left ordering and without the use of state labels. james wilson was one signer of the declaration who seems to have had a definite view of what it had meant when they collectively worked on the declaration. , movedborn in scotland to north america in 1766, lived mostly in philadelphia, was a property speculator among other things, but also a lawyer.
as a politician he was instrumental alongside hamilton , first in the bank of pennsylvania and then the bank of north america. he signed the declaration and the constitution and will store the first justices of the supreme court. at the constitutional convention it was recognized as being alongside madison, the most learned member of the constitutional convention and one of the most influential in terms of the structure of the arguments in philadelphia in the summer of 1787. wilson had a view about what that founding moment had been. when he was working on the question of how the new country should pay for its war debt, he expressed this view as early as 1783 in congress, he was reported to have said that he always considered this country with respect to the war as forming one community. been obliged to occur defenses without previous sanction ought to be placed on the same footing with those that had obtained the security. he's arguing about how the war
debts would be divvied up among state and is arguing they were as one nation and they often treat each other in that way, equally across all the states. part of an important his argument, not only of thing about war debt, but in terms of thinking about the need for national bank. as part of his efforts to build the bank of pennsylvania and then the bank of north america, he asked congress, which moved to new york city in 1785, for access to the records and the archive. he spent the summer of 1785 reviewing material, for example, we know he requested a set of journals from congress from the year 1774 to 1785, he requested the record of the war years. those records are important, they are the ones that included the printed version of the declaration and the fact that james wilson, signer of the declaration member of congress had to request that is a good indication of how hard it was to come by the text of the original documents.
he requested other original documents in the summer as part of his research and one of the most striking things about his research is that he came out of it with a new and stronger argument about what the founding had amounted to. that fall in a pamphlet defending the bank of north america, he wrote the active independence was made before the articles of confederation. this act declares that these united colonies not enumerating them separately, are free and independent states, and that as free and independent states, they have full power to do all acts and things which independent states may of right do. he is here invoking the declaration of independence as having grounded a new government waste on united colonies, unitedly being free and independent. , thee in parentheses colonies were not enumerated separately. this point he wants to underscore. this is the beginning of an he makes consistently throughout
the decade, that the new country have been founded on the basis of a single people, one community, not on the basis of separate states. he also is a part of his argument on behalf of the bank, kenexa means -- the needs of the bank to the declaration of independence with the point of view of ceremonial display of the declaration. in december 1786, he imagined entering into the bank call any dreams of seeing at the upper end of the hall the bill of rights, the frame of government and the declaration of independence. in this dream what he wishes to see, i could not but observe that part of the latter, which is signed the abolition of our charters as a reason for dissolving our connection to great britain was written in gold letters. wilson has oft seeing the declaration in gold letters hung in the bank of north america is the only text from the 1780's where a politician desires to see the declaration treated ceremonially in this way.
it was still legal text and wilson was one of the first people to start indicating it should be celebrated ceremonially as a charter freedom. -- of freedom. he introduces his arguments in the constitutional convention. would mean to establish a national government, the states must omit themselves as individuals, in lawful government must be supreme under the general or the state government must be supreme. the muster of the language with which we began the revolution. it was this -- virginia is no more, massachusetts is no more. we are one in name, let us be one in truth and fact. a few weeks later, june 19, he reads the declaration in the convention to make exactly the same arguments, that the country had been founded as a single nation. he continues to make this argument in the following weeks and puts it in his most pithy form in june 30, to we forget for whom we are forming a government? is it for men or the imaginary
beings called states? more locationsre in is the only founder to routinely invoke the declaration as part of his domestic policy argument. attacks have been buried, it was hard to get your hands on. the microcredit in 1786 for the 10th anniversary, i was the first time it was reprinted in newspapers. wilson is developing an interpretation of the declaration as a part of his argument about what the new constitution should pursue. person who was making a critical argument that connects to this mode of presenting the declaration without state-by-state groupings of the signatories. he is picked up by south carolina politicians to make a similar argument in the ratification proceedings and wilson himself or pieces argument of the pennsylvania ratification proceedings.
the only person who from 1783 all the way through the convention is making this argument about the founding having been based on a single united people, not on states. when we were scouring the records of 1780's, all the newspaper records, all the letters and so forth, this is the one context that emerged where politician expressed a purpose and intentionality that aligns with the details that we see on this parchment. for this reason, we propose james wilson as commissioner of this parchment, as part of his efforts to prepare material for the constitutional convention. madison, was there early. he lived in philadelphia and before the convention convened, they worked together to figure out how to lay the foundation for the convention. one of the principles they agreed on as madison road to theerson later was that country had been founded on the basis of a single people and
that was one of the principles they needed to ensure worked its way through the convention. wilson is the most possible candidate for the commissioner of the parchment. but that takes it to the next history of how on earth does the parchment of this kind yet from philadelphia to where it ended up in southern england. there is a complexity here. relates to the miniature emily showed you. it was produced in 1836, so that sussexither the declaration didn't move from the u.s. to the u.k. until after 1836, or there were multiple copies. are a detective, and i see some possibly armed detectives in the audience here. this present you with a significant problem, because you have to explore two different pathways. you have to look for possible transmission after 1836 and you have to explore transmission before 1836. as you begin to develop
plausible hypotheses, you have to figure out which ones can be just ruin. this is a massive amount of research which we are still working on. today, we're going to present some evidence for why we think ordid move earlier, 1780's 1790's, which would mean we think there are multiple copies of this text. we're going to provide some evidence of that. and in some evidence for possible pathway for how it moved. we are presented hypothesis which is plausible, we not presenting a definitive account or a smoking gun account. is everybody clear on that part? mentioned, it was deposited in the west sussex record office, a deposit in which we found it has 78 items in it. dating between 1621 and 1910. for your detectives, we have also done point, 1910, could not have gotten their later men. that helps a lot. he also look at the other documents in the deposit. what else is there.
as emily indicated, the documents come from clients of clienticitors firm, the that is represented the most strongly in the archive are the dukes of richmond, 23 items belonged to them. it also material from the bishop of justice are in a couple of other families. nonetheless, based on the presence of the material, and the lack of connections between the other clients and the americans, we have focused our research on the dukes of richmond. as for the dukes, here they are. third through 10th. the third, who would have been duped 1750 to 1806 and currently the 10th the duke who began his duped them in nice and 89. if you want to look at whether the text moved after 1836 or before, you have to focus on the fifth duke, in his role 18191860 and the sixth duke. the good news is the family has
kept good record of their possessions since 1822. and there is no record of any document of this kind having entered into their possession. we've also not been able to find any evidence about it having entered the firm after 1836 solicitors firm. that's not to say it might not turn out. but we have not found any evidence of the document moving into their possession after 1836 and they have kept good records both written and oral family tradition since 1822. emphasis is back to the third duke on the far left. what might possibly be the link between the third duke and james wilson? the answer is thomas payne. now what we want to do is share a story of the connection ,etween wilson, thomas payne and the duke of richmond. this is a set of links that haven't been documented previously and gives us a window into how ideas about politics and the american revolution may
have migrated across the ocean. and among the u.s., britain, and france. thomas payne, people don't often remember that he began his professional life as a tax collector. an excise officer in lewis in southern england, 1768 to 1774. it's from there that he came to the u.s. on the to the u.s. strength of recommendation from benjamin franklin, he was connected in london to benjamin franklin by someone who worked in the british treasury, a man named george scott. he also are working with louis worked under the administration of the duke of richmond. the duke of richmond was responsible for judicial activity in the county, thomas payne was an assiduous jury man while he was there. duke of richmond was also a patron in the late 1760's and 1770's of politics, it which included being a patron of the races, sponsored horse racing sponsored in lewis. and the people who were most
interested in recording the races were the owners of the white hart tavern and the neighboring coffee shop. both the owner of the white hart and the coffee shop were among thomas payne's closest associates. one of them served as the best man at his wedding and they all participated in republican politics in the city of lewis. there was a newspaper publishing republican writings of the duke was beginning himself to develop ideas about constitutional reform in england. eventually he would argue for universal male suffrage and was participating in these political conversations in lewis. our suggestion is that richmond may have been the patron who to georgethomas payne scott and measurement franklin. the question of how thomas payne got connected to those prominent figures has been obscure. no one has answered that in the literature and no one has seen the role of richmond in lewis previously. our suggestion is that richmond was the patron who connected
thomas payne in that way. just to give you more of a sense of location, what you have here on the map is in southern england, the relationship between where the parchment ended up in west sussex and the white hart hotel in lewis, which again, was a hotbed of political activity. have a plaque that still describes themselves that way. and as a part of that political activity that emerged from sussex in southern england, the duke in 1780, wrote a pamphlet called a letter to lieutenant colonel sharman, sherman was in ireland, the irish were working on revolutionary activity, trying to throw off this authority, and the roach to prominent reformers in england asking for their advice. in his letter, the duke laid out his view that there should be universal male suffrage and that british parliament should be reformed in order to achieve a
more egalitarian representation throughout the country. these were political views that were very antithetical to what king george the third wanted for his country. richmond was very much in opposition and as he was developing these years, he was also the peer in the house of lords who would be the first to stand up and defend the americans, to argue the british super peace, to argue they should accept american independence and acknowledge the nation. thearned the nickname of radical duke because he was a supporter of the americans. the americans recognize this. they would celebrate his name is being with a leading british statesman to defend the american cause. in addition to writing this pamphlet, he also supported other dissenters and reformers and radicals. we know this from examples like this letter from thomas north code, who wrote a letter in 1781 where he both describes earlier support for richmond and complains about it having been cut off. he writes to john adams honorable sir, i have supported
the cause of america from the first, i have devoted my property, my time and strength to the former colonies. at the time they were in most danger and i stand forth to this hour on muslim to defend my own principles with their conduct. i'm turned of 64 with betty greater for movies now reduced to half my pay. since the loss of my friend and the cruel desertion of may by the duke of richmond, present years gave me a small assistance, unworthy of his great dignity and fortune and that his written acknowledgment of my talents and services to the cause of freedom. to what is this cruel desertion that he is talking about? richmond had been involved in radical politics and in 1783, he had a chance to enter the government, to join the parliament and work with and on the half of his being. it took that opportunity and repudiated his former politics and former political acquaintances. an abject letter of apology to the king for not having been present in court for
the previous decade, an extraordinary moment where he regarded his politics and the result of that radicals who depended on him felt truly deserted. this story about richmond is to indicate both that he was moving in similar political circles to thomas payne, but he moved away from that. to 1783, 17 86, just before the constitutional convention. payne is in philadelphia with wilson, they are both working on behalf of the bank of north america. they succeed in getting its charter reinstated and with franklin they found society for political inquiry to prepare for the convention. payne sailed back to the united kingdom. you in europe some swimming through the french revolution. in 1789, for two years after he
had gotten back to england, there are two significant local events, the regency crisis in england, a moment when king george the third has another and thisadness provokes british politicians to begin exploring the possibility of transitioning the government to the prince of wales. some of them, while they are exploring this, also begin to consider the reform of the political institutions again. ,ust as this is happening things are moving in france towards revolution. the regency crisis is in january 1789 and by the summer, we have the fall of the bastille and revolution in france. in that context and the regency crisis, the reformers from the early 1780's and england begin to become very active again. they think this is the moment to drive change in english politics. one of the foremost advocates for change in politics was a politician named charles fox,
the nephew of the duke of richmond. they were politically estranged, but nonetheless part of the same family. time, some of the reformers who had worked with richmond decade earlier tried to recruit him back into their project, back into their work. society forlled the constitutional information and in 1792, they reprint his earlier reform pamphlet. in 1792, thomas payne publishes one of his most radical books, the rights of man part the second. this is a book in which he defends the france revolution. against edmund burke. as part of his offense of the france revolution, he blasts the duke of richmond in his footnotes. the duke of richmond, he says takes away as much for himself as would maintain 2000 poor and aged persons. referring to the duties he gets just by virtue of being an
aristocrat, the right he has based on his land and concessions. he calls him a member of a band of parasites living in luxurious indolence out of public taxes. as he insults richmond, something he has never done previously in any of his writing , there is a clear personal animus the resonates from the word. so much so that then he has to step back and say finally, in stating this case i'm led by no personal dislike. i think it mean in any man to a generalhe public as has become one of the parties are in the ministry or the opposition, it makes no difference. they are assured guaranty of each other. making the case that he is ready to condemn the aristocracy generally, and the ways in which they take advantage of ordinary people in england. the chance to make these kind of condemnations of richmond for two decades and he's never done it. why does he do it now?
our suggestion is, and again, wish we could give you everything, our suggestion is that thomas payne who was collaborating with performers in the early 1790's, have been working with him to try to recruit richmond back into the project of reform and that this might have been a moment when he would've shared something like the declaration of independence, as parchment document with the duke of richmond. the controversy between the two of them reached its highest pitch july 4, as it happens, 1792. when thomas payne has not repudiated richmond on the pages of his book that came out that spring and all throughout the land, people are starting to condemn payne. the king has passed a proclamation against sedition and thomas payne is the process -- people are burning him an f or g. people are gathering to deliberate and decide whether to support the king and his
proclamation against sedition, or to support payne. the duke of richmond's chair the meeting and in advance of the rise to thene council lewis asking for their support. the rates is now a board of 18 years since i was a resident inhabitant of the town of lewis. my situation of you as an office revenue for six years enabled me to see to the numerous and various distresses which the weighted taxes even at that time of day occasions. as it is natural for me to do for the hard condition of others, every person that under my survey is no lincoln witness the exceeding candor and even tenderness with which that part of the duty that felt my share was executed. reminds theds, he townsman of lewis what a good job he did as a tax collector as a part of his effort to defend himself in this moment with the townspeople of lewis might repudiate him under the chairmanship of the duke of richmond. and what happens?
there are some newspaper reports about that meeting and all we letter provoked reactions of discussed, such t,at -- discussed -- disgus and it was torn up and thrown unread on the table at the meeting. as the townspeople under richmond's chairmanship voted ne in support of the kings repopulation -- proclamation. nonetheless, despite his explosion in the relationship between the two of them, they were still associated in the public mind. who in an abolitionist 1794 had this to say about them. but the problem -- the progress is aptly secure without the aid of the duke of richmond or thomas payne
inciting the body of people to assume government. and then he offers a complicated , factual, during the regency had argued that england should have a constitutional convention like the american one. to formthem ransacking a national convention isn't even necessary thing. the point is there is some connection between richmond and payne. they went out of their way in 1792 to repudiate one another. it's in that relationship that we think there may have been a movement of this parchment from wilson in philadelphia through payne to richmond. i want to provide a few other little details to flesh out this picture. very much in the business of circulating letters and objects among revolutionaries. wanted to give the key
to the bastille to george washington, used thomas payne as his career to get the key to washington. we have other examples of letters that payne handed over from americans and the goblet of the relative people in paris. he was in the middle of a network connecting things across these three locations where politics were active in complicated. as i said, there's a connection payne thatchmond and a had been spotted. we haven't been able to find a dense connection of richmond to any other one of the american critical figures was also working with wilson. we have tested this hypothesis with scholars and scholars concur that it's plausible. but as i said to start, they are also other plausible pathways. payne lived with
richmond's nephew, edward fitzgerald, and irish revolution. you could've given the document to him and it may have ended up in the richmond papers through that nephew. there are other radicals went back and forth between philadelphia and united kingdom we might think of as possible people to transfer this document. there's a lot more research to paynet the story between and richmond has come to light , andse of this declaration we are trying to find out how are they could've gotten from philadelphia to the united kingdom. in closing, i just want to say thank you again to david verio io, and mary lynn and kitties rolled help you have given us on this project. it's a pleasure to share this work with all of you and we look forward to answering your questions about it. thank you. [applause]
>> if you have questions, please go to the microphone. >> thank you for a fascinating presentation. what impact do you think this declaration had? it's very straightforward. in the sense of the role of played in the constitutional convention and in the ratification. in some sense, you can reverse engineer the answer to that question if you look at the architecture of our institutions. the senate reflects the view that this country was founded on the basis of a single people, and the house reflects the view that it was founded on the basis of the federation or treaty
among different states. reverse that. the senate reflects the view that it was founded on the base of a treaty among equal states and the house represents the view was based on a single people that needed to be proportionally represented. that of course is a fundamental debate in the convention. the fact that the report and representation of you got as far as much traction as it did is because the arguments wilson was making. you can see him at critical points throughout the debate being endorsed by hamilton, madison to some extent, wilson, and then hamilton backing madison. this document supported that view and has a significance. i hope that answer your question. -- answered your question. >> thank you, danielle, emily. 10th duke off the richmond is laurel march?
he's the son of the 10th duke of richmond. it's been the case for a few generation of the earl of march takes over the family business at a certain point, and as you can see, his father is quite elderly. the earl of march runs the family business. >> i was in and around revival,r at the speed it's big horse racing, it must respect what you said. cricket inly founded the u.k., another expert everything. they build out a huge horse racing network in southern england. ms. allen: a bill stalls in 1792 and they built racetracks in the early 19th century that were some of the biggest and best. and then they moved on from that to car racing. it goes all the way back to the american revolution. >> thank you.
equivalent of attacks text, tweets, and email, a wire, what is the document that got to europe after the declaration of independence serialized in north america? is it in the newspaper or something there's a record of something that somebody picked up and king george the third or somebody else screamed or somebody was upset about? is there any record of that? ms. sneff: that is still a question to be definitively answered. to be honest, that's what i was looking for when we found this. i was looking for that document. the u.k. national archives has several dunlap broadside to travel across on ships, creating immediately the semi broadsides into new york got over to england my about the second week of august. proven,belief, still be
that the dunlap broadside within the first document to region blend. parchmentf the signed -- john hancock signing his name big enough for king george to read it, that makes no sense because king george would've never seen it unless it is what really poorly. it's more likely was a broadside that was picked up in english newspapers so the most people would see it. broadside and then this was later. ms. allen: there's a funny future of the was reception, there's one change in the text in the english text which i'm not going to remember now. it's in the fourth clause of the second sentence was in the american version reads that whenever any government becomes destructive of these ends, and the british version is changed the start of that clause. we cannot find the source text that generated that change. newspapere british
versions have no alternative. there's another tax out there somewhere which we haven't found. >> there are a few anomalies that pop up only in the british edition and some are centered. there are the documents that created all those differences. follow-up on your comment about either broadsides or newspapers. or the records of commentary was it just recorded in the newspaper as fact when those newspapers reprinted? ms. allen: the king had a lawyer did various kinds of work for him named john linda, who wrote a 110 page repudiation of the declaration, a point by point refutation of all the grievances, for instance. funny farcicalry rendering shortly after it arrived which is more or less a litany of complaints about the americans, it turns everything
inside out. they got a lot of traffic and a lot of attention. in state papers, there are handwritten copies, so for example, the fourth secretary, there are some handwritten copies of it in his papers. he had a copy from something in order for him to get the text at a very early point. there were multiple points of production. ms. sneff: we mentioned there are other manuscript copies on letter sized piece of paper and two of those are in lower germane's papers, u.k. secretary of state. as another one in the parliamentary archives from 7078, probably copied from the broadside or another printed document. they were disputing this to all major european governments, so my hunch is if you visited austrian archives and russian archives and things like that, there are probably more early copies to be found that we don't know about because
nobody has had the chance to look for them in those places. but every year -- every european capital should have had a significant early copy. which i guess we should probably go back and forth between two sides. >> is there any relationship between the family and richmond in the united states, to virginia? ms. allen: we haven't actually checked that. if there was a large presence of the family here, that could -- ms. allen: the richmond family did not have a presence. i can't explain the richmond's name, the rather things named richmond. other parts of england also called richmond that were not related to the family. we should check about richmond, familya but the richmond have a strong interest in america. thousands of american plans on their estate, for example. plants on their estate, for
example through the second duke sure that interest but neither of them of the mother travel to america. the fourth duke did have an appointments in canada as governor, the maven a military point of khamenei died in canada having been bitten by a rabid animal. you may think maybe he could have done this, it was there sometime between 1806 and 1819, but there's a good record of what began with his papers and there's no indication of a document this kind. >> any horticultural overlap with jefferson? he was fascinated with cultivating strains. ms. allen: the horticultural connection connected richmond to franklin in the first instance. there's less evidence of any jefferson richmond connection, there's a lot of franklin richmond peter collinson, who was a horticulturalist, there's a lot of connection there as well.
>> very interesting presentation. you bring up so many other in the presentation that you done. one question is, were there any ther documents to show that wilson document was actually a misrepresentation of the original declaration of independence by changing the ?rder of the signatures is a second question, which very simplistic. but it is a nagging question i have had. is, we signed the declaration of independence, i think it was signed areas times, but the official date was july 4 1776.
how did we communicate this to england? and when was that officially done? and when did england acknowledge that we were free? the follow-up to that is would it have been possible to have signed the declaration of independence without having a war? is there any language in the declaration that would have found the possibility of us being independent without having to fight a war? i'm going to start with the second question first. britain didn't acknowledge the .ndependence beginning in the 1770's, they acknowledging that britain
should recognize independence. his primee and minister were committed to holding onto their colonies. defense eternally, they had a very strong view on that point. documentsd to the being misrepresentations -- i'm going to come back to this. i think the hard part is these texts were misrepresentations. that is the problem. they were misrepresentations because they reapplied the same -- twoand reinforced things that were obscured on the matlack. between those two things there .s a slippage , yeswe get to this version
it is true that it is moving but toom the original, the same degree as the printed versions. so they are almost representations of the original. i think the important point me -- as i see it -- if our hypothesis is correct, he was representing had been. it is not a misrepresentation of --lack, but >> you are the daughter of the
most brilliant man i know, but i want to ask a little bit about you. you are a political theorist, but it seems and feels like a history project. can you talk about how you ended up teen involved in the first place and what it means in terms of your -- in the context of your broader work? ms. allen: thank you. with regard to the technical matter, i am both a historian and a philosopher. i have a phd in classics, ancient history, political science and political philosophy. half of my academic training is graphicitty paleo historical research. antiquity as opposed to the early american republic, but it is the same set of skills.
how did i get into this project and have the court fortune -- have the good fortune to bring emily and as well? basically i taught the declaration of independence as part of a general course for some night students and i became increasingly committed to its value, and began writing a book about it. in the process of writing the book i discovered my favorite national archives theme that the transcription on the national archives website seem to me to have an error in it. a great dispute between myself in the archives. follows:" we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, and rightswith unalienable like life, liberty, and
happiness. -- whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and institute new government laying foundation on principles and organizing power in such form that to them shall seem most likely to protect their safety and happiness. " five clauses following the self evident truths. most people think it stops at life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. the reason they think that is on, theyas being voted printed it in a broadside for him to go to the troops and foreign government hear it and dunlap was going to put it in this newspaper but the newspaper wasn't coming out for a few more days and there was a guy in town making a living by scooping
everybody else. he got the declaration unofficially into his newspaper. and that is very long, so he after the pursuit of happiness. i began to realize this was the reason that the national archives'version got the one with the period in it. why did this matter? because that second sentence about the self evidence truths is a statement about a theory of the right of revolution, but also the bases of legitimate rights, thesecuring right of the people to make a judgment about the quality of government to adapt it as necessary. the whole sentence goes from that statement, the claim about our individual rights to through the working
tool of government to secure our safety and happiness together. that is a hugely important argument in political thought. i wanted to understand the ideas in that sentence and understand why it was that some americans don't see the whole sentence, just half of it. they lose the part working together through the government to secure our rights. because i wanted to understand where come from that led me into this archival rabbit hole. i had the idea of trying to start a database project to collect every version that was produced between 76 and 1830. i managed to talk emily into joining me on that project your emily has remarkable skills, regard to details. between the two of us we have
the tools, knowledge, etc. to pursue this project. if you love a good mystery, it is pretty hard to walk away from exciting archival projects. hard for me to walk away from a good mystery. that was a long-winded answer, but thank you for it. >> thank you. i really appreciate your time. [applause] >> thank you for coming. >> coming up this weekend on c-span3, tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on real america, the 1944 u.s. office of war film, why we fight, the battle of china. >> three facts must never be
history,, china is people. land, china is 11: 30 a.m. at eastern, political economy professor and author robert wright on alexander hamilton's views on the national debt. >> he devised the creation of an energetic, efficient government here to one that did one thing well for as little money as possible. that one thing was to protect americans lives, liberty, and property. >> then new jersey residents and activists discuss the newark rebellion in 1967. 268 reports of sniper fire.
zero snipers were ever found, no evidence, no gun shells other than police gun shells. no footprints, no fingerprints, nothing was found. and yet 26 people were killed, one policeman, the one fireman, the rest citizens, all by three police forces that were operating. >> american history tv, all weekend every weekend only on c-span3. >> next on american history tv, a former archivist at the harry s truman presidential library and is be sam talks about truman's latin american travels. he explores his legacy through photos and truman's detailed diary entries. the truman little white house and the san corliss institute in key west, florida posted this conference, which this year is