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tv   Sen. Lindsey Graham on New York City Terror Attack  CSPAN  November 1, 2017 5:03pm-5:29pm EDT

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send him to gitmo. i would certainly consider that, yes. >> how did the diversity program fit into his plot? >> they say he came in through that program. they say he came in. i don't want -- look, it's very simple. what we are demanding is merit-based immigration. we want people that are going to help our country. we want people that will keep our country safe. we don't want lotteries where the wrong people are in the lotteries. who are the suckers that get those people? we want a merit based system. we do not want chain migration where somebody like him will be allowed to bring in many members of his family. we don't want that. thank you all very much. >> they certainly could. he did. they certainly could represent a
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threat. thank you very much everybody. thank you. south carolina senator lindsey graham also addressed yesterday's attack on bicyclists in new york city. he spoke to reporters at the capital this morning. here is a look. >> i think the recent event in new york is not only heartbreaking and my thoughts and prayers like everyone else is for the victims of this terrible attack. many of them were visiting our country from abroad. it is truly heartbreaking. i heard a lot of platitudes about how strong we are and what we are going to do as a nation. we are not going to give in. that is all great. people in new york are extremely strong. the new york city attitude
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towards this is probably the right attitude to take. the one thing i want to make sure of is that the american people understand we are making the right policy choices. it is not enough for a politician to get platitudes. we need to look and see if our laws are sufficient to meet the threats. so i believe very deeply that this gentleman mr. saipov i think is his name should be held as an enemy combattant. the reason i say that is that there is ample evidence to suggest that these attacks were motivated by radical islamic thought, that he killed in the name of radical islam and that he is expressing his allegiance to isil, that he is acting as a soldier of the caliphate and we should treat him as such. the one thing about the war that is changing is that the enemy no
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longer is organized in groups. they are soliciting people in our own country and abroad to come to their cause through the internet. it is important for the american people to understand that in moments like this the goal is to gather intelligence, not to convict him in a court of law. i don't think it will be very difficult to convict this man in a court of law. he will have his day in court. because he is a green card holder he cannot be tried by military tribuneles citizens and green card holders are ineligible trial so he will have to go through court. that is not the issue. the question for us now is what is the best way to gather intelligence from this man? under the law of war an enemy is not entitled to miranda rights or to be represented by counsel when the interrogation process is designed to gather intelligence. the difference between the law
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of war and criminal law is pretty basic. under criminal law the goal is to dispose of a crime giving the defendant due process and adequate opportunity for the victim to be heard. you have a prosecutor, defense attorney and a jury. their goal is to find out whether or not the prosecution can meet the elements of a crime. since we're at war which i believe we are, when you find somebody associated with radical islam who kills in the name of radical islam what we should try to find out about that person is how did you get here? are you working with other people? and under the law of war, i have been a military lawyer for 33 years, we have the authority in the united states to detain this man as an unlawful enemy combattant. the government would have to prove that he is in fact associated with radical islam. i think it should be
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conduct-based, not status-based. if you take up arms against the united states in the name of radical islam you should be treated as a terrorist. if you kill in the name of radical islam you should be treated as a terrorist. you will never convince me that the best way to gather intelligence in this war which is now in our backyard is to read somebody their miranda rights telling them they have the right to remain silent. under the law of war you can interrogate an unlawful enemy combattant without limitation on time. you have to treat them compliant. you can't torture them nor should you but time can be used as an interrogation tool itself. what i hope the trump administration will do is break from the obama administration's view that all terrorists are common criminals. the law does allow you to treat a terrorist differently from a
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common criminal. declaring this man as unlawful enemy combattant would allow the government to hold him for the purpose of gathering intelligence, compliant with the geneva convention and the mere passage of time can be a good interrogation tool. general mattis said the best way to find out information from enemy prisoners is over time get to know them, sometimes a cigarette or cold beer but form a relationship and time itself works as a good interrogation technique, not torture but time. the moment you read somebody their miranda rights there is an impediment to the interrogation. you can no longer interrogate the person under the law of war. the suggest they look at the evidence associating this man with radical islamic terrorist thought. look at him as unlawful enemy. take the time you need to
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develop who he is, be ready to present if necessary to a federal judge your case against him as being unlawful enemy. if you determine in the next few days that he doesn't fit then you can go back to the criminal process. but in the initial interrogation phase of this case and every other case like this we should go into this based on evidence we have before us assuming this man did this as part of a radical islamic terrorist movement and hold him under the law of war until we can get a good read out on who he is. this case he cannot be tried at gitmo. you don't have to hold him at gitmo but you could if you wanted to if he is an unlawful enemy. we have been taking every case like this and within days reading the miranda rights and turning this activity into a criminal case rather than a terrorism case. i hope the trump administration
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will take this opportunity to break from the last eight years and alpply the law of war so thy can gather intelligence from this gentleman about who he is and what he did and make a rational decision about how to go forward. if we go back to the criminal model then we are losing valuable intelligence. one thing i can say about making america safe, if somebody is willing to die and take you with them is really difficult. the best way to stop attacks is to use good intelligence, get involved in these groups, have vetting before people like this get here. sometimes you will just make mistakes. once you capture somebody like this man or the son-in-law of bin laden, the last thing i think you want to do is lawyer them up, put them in federal court where you don't have time to interrogate them. the fact that we took bin
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laden's son-in-law off battlefield and gave him a lawyer was the biggest mistake in the last decision. i have been a military lawyer for 33 years. there is nothing in military law that suggests that criminalizing an enemy prisoner, giving them criminal rights rather than intelligence gathering is the best way to find out about enemy operations. i will end with this. i believe we are at war. i believe the war is changing. i believe the enemy is changing their tactics, that rather than recruiting people just from the mid east they are using internet and other opportunities to convert people to their cause in our own backyard. and when we catch somebody like this we need to slow down and make sure we are making good decisions in terms of gathering intelligence to prevent the next attack. and to make sure we can find everything within reason about what this guy is up to and what
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got him to the event of yesterday so that we can make america safer. i talked with the president last night about this. i think he is inclined to be aggressive. at least i hope he is. i talked to the attorney general yesterday about the man in libya. the trump administration has an opportunity here to change policy. i hope they will do so. >> what about the idea that there has been a lot of talk about a new aim. to this point you say we are at war. if there is consternation as to under what premise the u.s. is at war how can you hold this person and say it is an act of terror on american soil as an enemy combattant if it is unclear the military authority overseas? >> i argue the home line is the ultimate prize for the enemy. if you had a system that if a terrorist can make it to our homeland they are no longer
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considered enemy you are rewarding bad behavior. the idea that america is not part of the battlefield is insane. tell that to people in the twin towers and in the pentagon and people in boston. tell that to people in new york. this is where they want to come above every other place in the world. the ultimate prize is to attack us in our own backyard. the constitution is not a suicide pack. we have a rule of law in place that covers situations like this. it's called the law of armed conflict. the war is global. the prime target is to hit us in our own backyard. that's the gold medal in jihaddest olympics. when you find somebody who has been converted to their cause whether through the internet or visit overseas, whatever reason we should hold them under the
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law of war and interrogate to make sure to prevent another attack if one is planned. i am convinced if you criminalize this war in the future you will make america less safe. >> why is it appropriate for you and for the president to come out the day after a terrorist attack by truck and say we need to change policies and laws but when democrats come out after a mass shooting and say we need to change laws by guns that is inappropriate and too soon? >> i have been talking about this for 15 years. the worst critic of lindsey graham can't say i'm new to the dance. every time we had a terrorist attack with someone like this i have been saying the same thing. don't read them their miranda rights. it's not too soon. we should have done this years ago. slowly but surely over time we have taken the war and turned it into a crime. this is not about gun control. it's not about truck control.
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it is about finding out how the enemy operates. this man, let me just say this. if you act like a terrorist and you say you're a terrorist that's enough for me. we are to treat you as a terrorist. the difference between terrorist in the law of war is night and day. under the law of war we have the opportunity to gather intelligence. under the criminal law you can't. you can't ask a bunch of questions about who you are and what you did that can implicate them in a crime. but you can ask an enemy prisoner what did you do and how did you do it to make sure the country is safe. the idea this is not a gun control issue, this is not an immigration issue. now, what i would say about immigration, we should be looking long and hard at who comes into our country. you can't ban somebody because
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of religious affiliation but you can't hide behind your religion either. if somebody has through the social media outlets or through evidence we can collect shown a radicalization tendency then we can say no. some people will come here and change. the law needs to be able to adapt to the enemy as the enemy changes. this is not an immigration issue for me. it is one part of it. my point here today is to tell the american people if we don't gather good intelligence it is hard to stop this. >> does that mean you do not agree with the president that there needs to be a look at this diversity lottery visa? >> i agree with that. the gang of eight eliminated the lottery system. we eliminated that a long time ago but the bill didn't pass. if we do something for dream act kids one thing we should do is eliminate the lottery and go to merit-based immigration system. when it comes to granting visas
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to people from dicy areas i think it is okay to look long and hard at people who come from those areas and not ban them because of their faith but realize we are at war and parts of the world are lawless and there is no way to vet completely in some of these countries. it's not about uzbekistan or libya. to me it is about a profile. >> on a different subject the navy put out a report saying the sailors in the crash lacked basic knowledge about the radar use and fundamentals about international rules of the nautical road in this crash. what do you think needs to happen? what is your reaction to the idea that these sailors didn't know what they were doing basically? >> i think it is a logical consequence of cutting the budget for a long period of time where training suffers. operational tempo has been high. when you have limited resources we cut a trillion dollars out of
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the defense budget. you is people the planes are grounded because the pilots can't fly enough. i'm sure the resources the navy has has been diverted to operational needs. that is one plausible explanation. 44 people died in training accidents versus a dozen or so killed in combat. i think senator mccain and i would say that sequestration has gutted the military's ability to be ready and to be profish and that all of us in congress bear blame for putting the military in this bad situation. >> two questions. first, what is the current status as you understand it as to where this decision is by the government in terms of suspect? >> this is why i'm here. i don't know. so i'm here to give my two ce s cents. if you believe media reports and it seems to be pretty cheer that this man was expressing
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allegiance to radical thought. there is ample evidence to suggest he may have been unlawful enemy combattant so the fbi and other intelligence organizations have high value interrogation team. i hope they are looking at evidence to suggest whether or not it is an act of terrorism rather than common crime. they can go in and talk to him. he may be gleeful today. a year from now he may be less gleeful. i suggest a process for fbi and other intelligence organizations can go in and have access to this man on their terms as long as it takes to find out what he did and why he did it from an intelligence point of view. if they read him his miranda rights first it gets to be very difficult to do what i'm talking
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about. >> the president woke up this morn morning and [ inaudible ] it looks like he got a lot of his facts wrong. i just want to know your opinion. did he squander an opportunity here and decide to go political at a time when he should have been trying to bring the country together? >> senator schumer has supported legislation to do away with the lottery system. i was there. i know. it didn't pass. apparently, this man came in through the lottery system. all i would say is count me in for wanting to eliminate the lottery system. mr. president, the real decision you have to make in real time is not about changing the lottery system which is a legislative endeavor that will take time. are you as commander in chief going to invoke your power, your
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administration's power to declare this man as an unlawful enemy combattant and gather intelligence versus reading him miranda rights. i just think the president wants immigration reform. i know what senator schumer is willing to do with the lottery. he was willing to change it. i'm here today to not talk about how to reform immigration. in the next 12 hours they have to make a decision that will either continue a practice i think makes america less safe or will adjust their policies. i'm here to urge the president to reject the obama approach to fighting the war on terror. he criminalized the war. you need to treat it as a war. >> do you see this in the same way you see the u.s. suspected held in custody for iraq? seven weeks in is there any
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point at which he should be turned over? >> if the government declares somebody in our custody to be an unlawful enemy combattant they have a right to appear before a federal judge. then the government has to prove this person is in fact an unlawful enemy. the gentleman in iraq i don't know whose custody he is in. >> d.o.d. custody. >> they have to make a decision as to whether or not they want to declare this person unlawful. you can't hold someone indefinitely as unlawful enemy combattant without judicial review. the judicial review has to happen within about 60 days. >> [ inaudible ] you heard about the role of social media
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companies. so how are you thinking about that in this case and then also with regard to intelligence gathering? >> what did we learn yesterday that the terrorists are encouraging their followers to use twitter, facebook and other social media outlets to get their message out. they use these platforms to recruit people. they use the platforms to spread their ideology. the social media companies involved yesterday have a fairly sophisticated artificial intelligence effort to shut down websites but nothing is perfect. there is no law in this area. you are in the media business if you are in radio and broadcast you are highly regulated. social media outlets are not regulated at all. why are the terrorists going to this form of communication? there is the dark internet where it is encrypted. telegraham websites where they can talk to each other. i think it is very ironic that
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as we were having a hearing about how radical islam is using the internet to recruit in our own backyard within the timeframe of the hearing you have an attack by somebody who seems to fit that profile. all i'm saying is we are at war. i believe in civil liberties and constitutional principles. i have been a military lawyer for 33 years. torture does not work. i reject torture as a technique. i believe in the rule of law but i believe in making america safe within reason. right now the internet and social media outlets are ungoverned space just as much as africa is ungoverned. the terrorists go to ungoverned spaces on the ground and on cyber and using the cyber ungoverned spaces to generate attacks against us. all i can say is the war is coming to our backyard. it is here. the enemy has a recruiting
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technique to radicalize people within our country. there will be more of this, not less. the more information we can find out about how these guys get to where they are the better off we are and the less we criminalize the war the safer we will be. thank you. >> this weekend c-span's cities tour take s you to sioux falls. we will highlight the history and literary life. saturday at 6:00 p.m. eastern a look at the history of native american citizenship in the u.s. with author frank and his book broken landscape. >> they have the authority from the preconstitutional existence as self-governing.
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that's the position that tribes take that they are self-governing within their territory. >> and author of the book outlaw dakota about judge shannon. >> if you were caught stealing a horse, if you were particularly away from settlement in ranch country they would hang you. that was what you call frontier justice or rough justice. >> on sunday at 2:00 p.m. eastern we will tour fort dakota to explore the story of the u.s. military's role. >> it was one of many established throughout the region. it was really established to provide a sense of safety and security for those settlers here. >> and we will take a driving tour of sioux falls.
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>> we are on one of the main thorough fares. phillips avenue named for one of the first settlers of dakota territory. >> watch c-span cities tour saturday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on book tv. and sunday on american history tv on c-span 3. the c-span city's tour working with cable partners as we explore america. >> for a second day executives from google, facebook and twitter were on capitol hill. this time before the senate and house intelligence committees as part of the continuing inquiry into russia's social media influence on the 2016 elections. we'll have both hearings in their entirety tonight beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 2. next we bring you highlights. we


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