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tv   Jamestown Virginia Settlement in 1619  CSPAN  January 20, 2019 10:55am-12:01pm EST

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>> jamestown virginia was the first english colonial settlement founded in 16 07. -- 1607. 1619 marked the arrival of the first african slaves. james horan discusses the importance of these events for american democracy for 100 years later. the virginia museum of culture hosted this hour-long program. >> dr. james horn is president, the original site of the first permanent english colony in america. previously, jim served as vice president of research and historical interpretation. of thethe director international center for jefferson studies at monticello and before that taught for 20 years at the university of brighton in england. he's held fellow ships at the johns hopkins university, college of william & mary,
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harvard and is a fellow of the royal historical society. i'm also proud to note that he's you currently serving on the advisory committee for the upcoming exhibition, the 400-year struggle for black equality which tells the story of the arrival of 1619 andin virginia in the first century that followed. a critical milestone that's part of the commonwealth's 400-year commemoration of several pivotal moments in our state's history. this exhibit will open in june of 2019 as part of this commemoration and we're thrilled to have the expertise of jim and so many others to help shape that important exhibition. >> jim is a leading expert on early virginia. he's the author of numerous articles and books including a land as god made it, jamestown, and the birth of america. a kingdom strange, the brief and tragic history of the lost colony of roanoke and most recently, 1619, jamestown, and the forging of american
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democracy. which has just been published, copies are available this evening and i know he would be thrilled to sign them for you. this is such a treat. i have known jim for several years since my time at mount vernon and have always been so deeply impressed with his deep knowledge of early virginia history and i'm sure that this evening will inform us all. if you would, please, join me in welcoming jim horn. [applause] >> thank you. thank you all for coming out this evening. as jamie said i'm a historian. i usually work, in a period of years, sometimes 25 and 50, i've been known to work for a century long period. i've never worked on one year so it was quite challenging for me to make this lecture extend for 40 minutes when i'm only dealing with one year, although i'll do my best. although it's only one year it's a really good year and people
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don't know much about it. so that's really the topic. possibly, when i began working on this book, people, the general public, didn't know much, if anything, about what occurred in 1619. i'm not being patronizing, it's simply a fact that most people have no recollection of these people in our deep past. 400 years is a remote place in time. but 1619 is a really significant year. that's what i'm going to try and convince you of this evening. i think it's been lost in our historical memory. we have, for example, no question about 1620 pilgrims,
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and then a decade or so later, puritans. they are firmly rooted in our collective historical memory. we even have a date we can attach to them. as many of you know, many americans do believe that's when the english presence in north america began. all we have is john smith and pocahontas. this is a little bit different because many people don't really have much of a concept of when they were in virginia other than it was very early. but pocahontas is one of the best known early american indian peoples, indian person, around the world, not just in the usa. that's got something to do with disney, but also, of course, of the films and lots of writings. so we've got these founding myths.
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if you like for new england and for virginia. but 1619 does not feature that. we know, that predates the plymouth colony by at least 13 years. it was set up as a company of merchants. it is a company colony. it is a for profit business, a private colony, sanctioned by james the first. they had to have the approval of james the first. this is a corporate enterprise. corporations, then as now, had their own laws, their own councils, and their own form of meetings that took place to elected officials. the virginia company of london
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was set up in 1606, and the colony was established the following year. it was established in a place -- this is a detail you'll recognize from the john smith map of 1612 originally. it was established in a place called tsehacommacah. that is the word for the territories they controlled south of the james river, quite a long way south of the james river perhaps even as far south , as parts of north carolina today. we must recognize that this early colony for profit is in a place of a very powerful indian nation. a collection of maybe 30 or so
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peoples who dominated this region. i think that is why the english chose to settle in this region because there was such a , powerful indian presence. there were about 15,000 indian peoples, and of those, perhaps a third were bowman warriors. so, it is a formidable fighting force, as well as a group of peoples in the region. that is all the way up to the piedmont. this is the first point i want to make, that established for profit, the colony in the early years did not make much of a profit. it very nearly failed on several occasions.
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the starving time was probably the darkest time of all, because there was the task of accommodating the indian presence, which is to say, trying to come to terms with indian peoples, and leading into conflict in the first war of 1609-1614. very difficult to be productive when a war is going on. early virginia is a military regime. the first legal code in virginia which marshall code extended all the way from the outbreak of the war 1609-1610 through to 1618. i make this point, because this
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is the context, this is the background to the great reforms of 1619. earlier, the colony had suffered from arbitrary government, property owned by the company. this was not conducive to attracting the kind of numbers of immigrants that the virginia company needed. a lot of people are familiar that in 1619, the first representative assembly met at jamestown. that is fine as far as it goes, because that was the capstone of the great reforms. the great reforms of 1619 are -- embrace what you see on the slide there. -- the architect of
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those reforms is this man, sir sands. we will take sometime to talk about him, because he is quite remarkable, and understanding the reforms he proposed and the ambition behind these reforms takes us some way to understanding the significance of 6019. sir edwin sands was the son of the archbishop of york, his namesake. his father was in exile. he had fled to geneva during the role of the catholic queen. he was in his younger days, his father was a very hot puritan, i suppose is the way to put it. a puritan of hot temperament.
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he accommodated himself to elizabethan church settlement and rose steadily through the ranks of the church, bishop, then archbishop of york. what this meant for his son, is that edwin got a first-class education. he was educated in the best schools and universities. he went to london, he was educated, i think we can call him one of the significant intellectuals of his day. he traveled extensively in europe. i will come back to that point, because it is often overlooked, and it is directly relevant to what i am going to be talking about this evening. is this english european background. so, he was a highly educated
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man, and had a first rate humanist education. he had a pretty quiet -- for much of his early years, and he has a his midlife , pretty quiet time of it, until james the first ascended to the throne in 1603. then, with the beginning of the jacobian parliament, he shoots into public view. he becomes the leader of the commons for the next 20 plus years. he is the leader of the opposition and in some instances, to james the first. that is also significant, because he is well versed in constitutionalism.
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in the english constitution and protecting what was called at the time the ancient constitution, the basic, fundamental rights of english people. he knew that if virginia did not undertake substantial reforms in 1618-1619, the colony would have collapsed. there simply were not enough people coming into the colony to sustain it. with the wars against the indians, there was no possibility that indian peoples were ready to be converted, not only to the anglican church, but also to the english nation. so, he decides, and the company backs him, that the only way to
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sustain the colony and make it profitable was to transfer large sections of the english population to the colony of virginia. we are familiar with the great migration of the 1630's, but there was a significant early form of the great migration in the years between 1618-1619, and through the first half of the 1620's. you had to bring a population in from england to create a viable colony, and to create the profit that the company would look for. to do that, you have got to have incentives. what is it that would bring people to virginia on the fringes of the anglophone world. you have got to cross the atlantic, a pretty risky
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undertaking in these times. you have to face unknown hazards, hurricanes -- we are getting familiar with that these past few weeks. pirates, the spanish, then when you get to virginia, how are you going to fare in the colonies? there has to be a strong incentive as to why you are coming to a place like this in this period. private property. it might seem, surely they had private property in virginia, but the truth is, the virginia company owned the land. some individuals, powerful individuals, had acquired large plantations, but when we are dealing with origins, one question you have to ask yourself is, why did they go this route? when not choose another route? there were other models.
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virginia could have been another bermuda. bermuda was a pirate base. owned and controlled, for the most part, by sir robert. bermuda was one kind of model for an english colony, preying on spanish shipping in the west indies. the other kind of model, which had been thought about, theorized about, was a society where a few very wealthy groups of merchants or individuals would own properties of 50,000-100,000 acres, and populate them with english servants.
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tenants would not own property, they would work on these baronial estates. the virginia company did not choose either of those options. they chose to introduce widespread private property granted in small divisions of land, 50-100 acres to the set of population as a whole.
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private property begins to see its way in virginia before 1619, but it wasn't systematic, and sir edwin sands makes it systematic. he has lived in the colony sometime -- if you lived in the colony sometime, you received this land. how do you protect the property? you have to have rule of law. i think that any democracy cannot survive for very long without the rule of law. when i naturalized, it was one of the questions i was asked in my examination. the test i had to take to become a citizen, what is the rule of law? i was thinking the rule of law means that law rules. it seems to be common sense. but, no one is above the law. what sands and the company are saying is we will get rid of this military government, get rid of martial law, and have rule of law based on english common law. there are any number of systems of law in england. martial law was certainly employed at times. common law was understood by a majority of english people. it protected their rights as a people.
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the rule of law would be based on english law. no one would be above the law. it would be changed to accommodate the peculiar circumstances that the settlers found themselves in in virginia. self-government, this is where we come to the general assembly of 1619. why do you need self-government? the company had the authority to rule the colony of virginia, so why did they want to have a legal form of assembly? there wasn't anything like it in england. in england in the early 17th century, you have got the house of commons, the lords, the court. you have got sizes and lower courts in the shires, but you don't have many assemblies in
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the counties. probably the nearest to it is the scottish and irish parliaments. setting up an assembly in america was hugely important, as a precedent. it is pretty obvious what the reason was. to gain people's trust, you had to go to a system, and sir edwin sands believed in this quite profoundly, you had to go to a system where the consent of the governed was in place. that is precisely what he did. i am missing a few slides here. to give you the extent of
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property owning along the james river, this is, by english standards, quite extensive. if you are looking from point comfort all the way to the falls in richmond, falling creek is there at the top, that is an extensive bit of territory. a good 100-130 miles, as the ship sails. that is the distribution, even in 1619, where the population of the colony was probably no more than 1,200-1,500. at the top, the great charter. the great charter doesn't survive, but the instructions to the governor of virginia, who was to implement these reforms, does. it mentions the great charter and it was the basis of these
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early reforms. i wanted to underline this early form of local government, because this is the way in which sir edwin sands, in a very systematic way, goes about thinking of how to govern a territory as extensive as this. here we have the corporations, and i will not read them out, because they are easy to read on the screen. these are the four first boroughs. he is thinking like an englishman that these individual areas have their own forms of local government, and everyone has a role within that.
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the is the statement from great charter, from the 1618,ctions written in giving a sense that if you come to virginia you will be governed in the same way as you were or you had been so far in england. just laws for the guiding and governing of the people. i was interested in the term the great charter. magna carta is a great charter.
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i went looking for the word magna carta in any document . if anyone has found more references in these early documents, please let me know at the end of the lecture and i will be forever in your debt. i only found one reference here. as you can see, the reference is talking about laws must be published. people must know their rights. this is really advanced thinking for the early 17th century. nothing like this elsewhere in europe or england. even in england, people didn't go out of their way to publicize the laws. you either knew them or you didn't. there you are. in form of a magna carta to be published for the whole colony. that is the only reference we had from 1618. here's the general assembly.
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we have a description of it from the secretary of the colony, a description of what took place and what occurred. it was a wide ranging meeting. i will first describe some of the key characters as far as we know. sir george sitting with his counselors flanking him. then there would be the clark and the speaker of this assembly, which mimics the commons procedure. it did mimic to some degree. is a single chamber here. it did mimic some of the procedures of english parliament.
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we have got private property, rule of law, and consent of the governed. this is an aspect of these great reforms of 1619 that i would venture to say is the least well-known of all of them. virginia is a commonwealth still today. it's significance resolves -- revolves around 150 years of
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thinking of intellectuals in europe of how to deal with the issues and problems that they were confronted with in the late 15th, early 16th and 17th centuries. they were considerable. theave in england, during 16th century, rapid population growth, where many people in the countryside are losing their rights to their properties, commonly and's and the level of poverty is rocketing across the late 15th and 16th centuries. this quote here from sir thomas moore sums up some of this, pointing to the suffering of the poor.
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unemployment and underemployment, vagrancy, masterless men and women, bringing diseases and so on to the cities. this was the specter of magistrates of the period. it had to be dealt with. religious wars in europe.
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the second half of the century was almost a continuous period of warfare revolving around the great two blocks of power, catholic and protestant. remembering that 1618, just before what we're dealing with here, is the outbreak of one of the most terrible wars of all, later known as the 30 years war, where there is absolute devastation in europe throughout this period. the english stay out of the 30 years war as much as they can, but nevertheless, the awareness of this carnage that is going on in europe is a powerful one. so, we come back to the virginia commonwealth. we come back to a godly commonwealth, a christian commonwealth. this is what is so impressive about sir edwin sands. remembering his background, his father being the archbishop of york. he has traveled in europe, looking at various religious systems and trying to devise a way by which different groups of people could live together in peace and harmony.
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different religious groups, that could be achieved. where better to test that theory than in virginia? and who better to test it on? pocahontas is a story of redemption. converting her to the anglican church, then ultimately the entire powatan nation. this was the first and only effort by the english to convert not just a group of indian people, but an entire nation of this extent. it begins with a whole period of church building. they are pretty modest structures. i have this slide to give you a sense of that. this is a theoretical structure,
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but nevertheless, this program of church building that is going on, because the commonwealth was to be a moral commonwealth based on the protestant religion, and the anglican religion. the indians would be part of that. they were to be converted to englishness and adopt english ways. they would become part of the english colony. here we have pocahontas, who died in 1617, but the effort continues with the powatan chiefs to convert the people to the anglican church. commonwealth also implies other things.
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it implies work and it implies a stable society. in 1619, there would have been seven men for every woman. just think about that. the company is aware that men are returning from virginia once i have made enough money, they come back to england because they couldn't marry and settle down. in one of the first efforts to
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socially engineer a colony, the virginia company started recruiting respectable young women to send to virginia to marry the planters. across the period from 1619-1622, about 150 young women, maybe as many as 200 were sent to the colony. no women, no colony. it was essential to have women and establish these households and communities. englishmen typically did not marry the indian women, so these are not the first women in the colony, but certainly, this effort to provide these respectable young women, the records of many of them still survive in english archives. it is a fascinating story. it was the only profitable part of the virginia company's business across this entire period. if you wanted a wife, you had to pay. it was 150 pounds of tobacco. tobacco at this time was three shillings a pound. there are lots of complaints from poor planters who could not afford the price of a wife. it worked for all. in england, there simply wasn't enough employment for the
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growing population in england. not that the virginia company encouraged tobacco, but tobacco was profitable. work for all in the tobacco fields. work along jamestown. along the docks down at point comfort. wharves at plantations. what the virginia company wanted to do was create new industries, manufacturers, glass works, vineyards, silk works, manufacturers that they could export back to england. virginia had plenty of wood and wood would be needed to power some of these industries. this did not work out. to some degree, the effort here is to create a society where a
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-- where inequality is based on opportunity to find work, productive work, and set up something of a homestead to be comfortable and not reduced to dire poverty. i am going to shift gears, because it does not appear to me sir edwin sands or the virginia company's plans in terms of work to import captive africans. we have been doing some significant work down at jamestown to look at the presence of a woman, we don't know whether she is young or old, we know nothing about her except that she was named angela. we know also that she came from what we would call angola, central west africa.
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she was captured during colonial wars in angola, portuguese troops and their allies marched maybe 150 miles. you can see here, to the coast, which was the principal slave port, then put on board the ships something like this. i can't find a print of a 17th century slave ship that shows the way in which they were organized, but this is an 18th century print. it is a ship that had 350 slaves on. so did the ship that angela sailed on. that was a big ship. with 350 slaves upon it. this gives you some idea of what
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we are talking about in terms of a transatlantic trade. from west central africa up to vera cruz. across this early period of the slave trade. the slave trade is established 100 years before virginia. it is the engine of the atlantic trade in this period. the slave ship is encountered in the gulf of mexico by two english privateers. owned by the earl of warwick. they plunder that ship of 50-60 africans and bring them to virginia, where some of them are put ashore at various
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plantations along the james river. here we have the residences of 23 of the earliest africans in virginia from 1625. small numbers. bermuda had more than 100 slaves, because they were capturing them from spanish ships in the caribbean. angela is up here at jamestown. owned by captain william pierce. here she is. you will see down below, angelo, but there is no question she is a woman. a negro league in the treasurer
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of the ship in which she was brought to virginia. i believe that the first africans were enslaved. there are various opinions on this. some people prefer to think of them as indentured servants. i believe that the english adopted pretty much the spanish and portuguese way of thinking of africans, and this is the muster of george yeardley. in the middle of it, niekro men ro ee, me grow women -- neg women, five.gro what you see time and time again, no names, but simply negro man, child, woman. this is where she lived. there is the fort to your left, she is living on the side about
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half a mile from the fort. i mentioned and i am going to briefly go through some of this. to many people, 1619 is meaningless, yet this is one of the most important years in our history. it is the year that sees the beginning of america's experiment with democracy and the year when the first africans arrived in english america. what are we doing at jamestown rediscovery to add to the state's activities during next year to commemorate 1619? we have got some pretty spectacular results. some of you, if not many of you, will be very familiar with the memorial church. i like this slide, because you can see the shadow of captain john smith.
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i will not say the churches in the shadow of captain john smith. there he is. you will note that the tower is a 17th century tower, probably 1660's, maybe 1670's. certainly, the upper portions date to 1776. that tower is the only standing structure from the 17th century and immediately behind it is the memorial church built by the national society of colonial dames in 1906-1907 and open for the 300 anniversary of the founding of jamestown. this is an incredibly important historical site, because it is also the site of earlier
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churches, one of them being the 1617 church where that first assembly was held. we have the good fortune of having images. i will see if i can point these out. there was a group of ladies from the association for the preservation of virginia antiquities. they are doing archaeology. these are some of the first archaeologists who worked on this site. they are doing the archaeology in full skirts. it is a very elegant form of archaeology that hasn't been seen since their day. >> [laughter] mr. horn: despite my efforts. here we have -- we are looking here toward the river through the church arch, and these are the foundations of the church. this is a remarkable ledger stone.
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you can see how it slumped down here and has been broken. this is from the early archives of preservation virginia. we have this remarkable photograph of these early excavations. the last time anyone saw the floor of the church was back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. that was the last time. we don't know from documents what it looked like, other than what you see there. it was 20 foot by 50 foot. that is all we know. there is no travelers' descriptions that we have found. no images, no paintings of it. the king here from 1956-1957 i
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will come back to, but this is a drawing from the 1930's. very little to go on. if we're going to find out what was it like to sit in that first assembly, where was the place where democracy began in this country, we have to go to the archaeology. take a look at this slide here, because this is a couple of years ago. it looks neat and tidy. there's the knight's tomb. i'm sure you are familiar with it. some of you. prepare yourselves for a bit of a shock. those who have not been to jamestown recently. once the archaeologists got hold of it, this is what we've got.
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this is a piece of brain surgery archaeology, but there are some things that stand out very obviously. we have down here the original foundations. they used to be under glass. there used to be a sign saying don't step on the glass, because you might fall into the foundations of the original church. did not mean to do that. there we go. so, here we have the floor, and as i say, the first time anyone has seen it in more than 100 years. to make sense of it, this slide shows you how it all comes together. particularly important is where the choir is.
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i've got to look down at this. the choir is where that first assembly met. that is the particular location, based on the english word choir, for an anglican church. the western part, the inner sanctum, then the inner chancel is to the east of it, where the chancel step separates the church from the ritual. you can see that we believe we have discovered sir george yardley in a tomb that was set in the choir and that goes up to the chancel step. we know the church was wooden. these humble slides give you a sense of what we think it was made of. it is timber framed. we knew that.
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this is plaster with lathe. we now know this was not a clapboard church. this was a plaster church, plastered on the outside and on the inside. we have discovered the different types of plaster from the archaeology, the interior and exterior. it is a tudor church. it would have looked something like this. this is what it would have looked like. it has got plaster in between. we don't know what the roof was made of. could have been clapboard. within the last week, we think there is a fair chance that there was not a tower like this. there may have been an early timber tower that predates the stone tower.
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the knight's tomb, i mentioned. here we are excavating it. this is the oldest ledger stone in the united states. it dates to the 1630's. older than anything we know of from the spanish churches in the west. here, it gives you a sense of the restoration we have done of the tomb and what the breast would have looked like. would have looked like. this lady is best known for her work on richard the third, and the genomic research that underpinned it. she is now working with us. what she is going to be working on is the tomb of governor sir
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george yeardley and the genomic research that is going on to establish his identity. we had to extract dna, and you can only do that in a clean room safely. this is within the church. we constructed this timber and plastic cube and got working on the church to make sure that sir george was not contaminated. i'm sure sir george would not have liked to be contaminated and we made sure he wasn't. we don't know what he looked like. like so much of this early period, we can only guess. this is the detail from the rendering.
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many of the men from sidney king who was a truly remarkable , artist, had these little beards, the mustaches and beards. for the life of me, they remind me of errol flynn's great movies, but i do not mean to do a disservice to sidney king. we have no contemnor very -- contemnor bury -- contemporary portraits. he is the second father of the founding democracy. we have bartholomew, i meant to show this slide missing his head. we don't know what sir george yeardley looked like, but we can do a full reconstruction from the genomic analysis, if we find a match. we found one in england.
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we are going to be working with him to get his genome, then match it to the findings we have. we have worked with the university of leicester, vcu, penn dental, to do the micro oral biome. we are working with the smithsonian. we have highly sophisticated systemsenetrating radar and fbi quantico have been assisting as well. this is to say that archaeology -- hard work digging, we have still got plenty of holes in the ground, plenty of pits. you have to shovel out the dirt, still have to get in there with your trowel. that is called ground truthing. it is becoming increasingly scientific.
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these scientific methods we brought to the church and to sir george, or whoever he is, an important person given his location in the church we use , this battery of science to learn more about him. that is the way archaeology is developing. how about angela? there are no monuments to africans at jamestown. there is a sign that was put up a few years ago talking about the middle passage. we have numerous wonderful monuments recording the first settlers, the first reverend. we have a statue, one of only two in existence, of pocahontas. we have a statue of john smith, one of only two. we have no statues, no physical
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reminder of the african presence on the island. so, we wanted to rectify that. we know where she lived. this is the -- for those of you familiar with the island, that is the ruin. this is a slide from the 1930's when the civilian conservation corps worked on-site doing some literally groundbreaking archaeology. sorry, i couldn't resist. there were many african-americans involved in that. they were, without knowing it, digging on the site of the first african -- one of the first africans in english america. there is a story that continues from angela 1619 through to the
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civil war, winfrey blacks lived -- when freen and blacks lived in the mansion and went on to these early pioneers of archaeology. they were documenting all of that. we're going to be very interested in working with the team here to get a wider audience. this is what we have done so far. you can see, there is nothing here that necessarily jumps out at you, but this is the first time it has ever been done at jamestown. we are attracting large crowds of people who want to know more about angela, want to know her story from what we are finding in the ground. all we know about angela is her name and that she lived at this site in 1625. we do not know whether she
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survived for long. we do not know her age, and apart from general documentation, which tells us where she is from, that is it. if we are to find out something about her, how she lived, what she would have seen, the landscape still intact in jamestown, this is the only way that we can do it, through archaeology. very quickly, i am running out of time. we have to think about what all this means for us as a people. when we think about legacies, democracy, rule of law, consent of the governed, obviously it was very different. democracy was different in the early 17th century compared to today. probably the major difference was that many people were excluded from the franchise,
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notably women, africans, indian peoples, and that did not change for a long time. the principles that are the underpinning of our society and our democracy, i would venture to say were founded here in jamestown in 1619. particularly the rule of law, consent of the governed. when i think about this, i think about this in terms of an anglo-american dialogue. you can't see it, but i'm wearing my anglo american pin. it is pretty obvious, but i am wearing it for this. the kind of discussions going on in 1619 to set up the kind of democracy that existed in virginia at that time, you hear those same voices echoing in the houses of parliament in the 1620's, then in the 1640's, you
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hear those same arguments in the fields of the british civil wars of the mid-17th century and those same principles are being argued about 130 years later in america during the american revolution and beyond. democracy is not ever a finished item. it is always evolving. it started in jamestown. this is something to give us pause. democracy is precious. it has basic principles that have been contested, debated, and fought over for 400 years in the english american world. diversity, race, and inequality. alongside those remarkable principles that were first established 400 years ago, we
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have the dispossession of the indian population, the indian peoples. we have attitudes that one can trace, attitudes toward race that can go back to 1619. you can find echoes of them today. most importantly, inequality. remember that sir edwin sands wanted to set up a commonwealth, because he believed that by serving the common good, you would serve all. that was based on a society where people had opportunity, but there was also basic equality. we're still struggling with this
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as a people with some of these issues and i am hoping that 1619, but more importantly, 2019, gives us a chance to enter into a dialogue with one another and talk about these issues more. thank you very much. >> [applause] >> we have time for maybe two quick questions. >> an interesting talk and a memorable year. you showed some slides on angela, the excavation of church and so on. there was some talk a while back, some controversy about a power line coming over the james river. to what extent will that impact your work? mr. horn: not in the church or at the angela site. that controversy, i am familiar
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with that, actually. thank you for the question. it won't impact where we are at jamestown. if you go to black point at the eastern end of the island, the power lines and more particularly, the transmission towers, 298 feet tall, you will be able to see those in the distance. >> a very interesting talk. i was always taught and the signage upstairs suggests that the ships that intercepted the slave ship were in fact dutch ships, probably pirate ships. you suggested that they were english privateers. i know the difference between privateers and pirates is pretty limited, but what makes you think they were english rather than dutch? mr. horn: we have got pretty
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sound evidence now that these two ships were owned or partially owned by sir robert. they were carrying, one of them, the white line was carrying letters of mark, giving permission from a foreign nation at war with spain, such as the netherlands, as a privateer, you could get a letter of that kind, which legitimized at least in the european sense, not to the spanish, but the europeans other than the spanish and portuguese, any plundering that went on. there is no question that both of the ships' captains were english, and there is considerable evidence, but fairly recent, because i recall and i think in one of my books i mentioned the white lion in dutch. it was carrying letters from the
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dutch. it was manned and crewed by the english. >> thank you. >> [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [background noise] announcer: monday, martin luther king jr. day, at 8:00 a.m. eastern, race relations in the u.s. with leonard steinhardt and talkshow commentator armstrong "washingtonve on journal." on book tv, discussion on race in america. , voterr suppression suppression is real. states,me a couple of florida, georgia, texas, north
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dakota. in 2019, we are dealing with this issue. american history tv on c-span3 at 8:00 p.m. eastern, the 1957 film, a time for freedom documents the civil rights rally at the lincoln memorial. towe will no longer plead the federal government a passage. by the power of our votes, right the wrongs and to the acts of the hooded perpetrators of violence. c-spanh c-span and history tv this monday, martin luther king jr. day. ♪ announcer: c-span, where history unfolds daily.
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in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme , and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. tonight, on q&a, author and journalist patricia bringingd her book, down the kernel on a late sex scandal involving a congressman sued by his former mistress. >> william campbell and the number of middle names he has should signify he was in the southern elite, a respected cavalryman. at the time of the lawsuit, he is in his fifth term. she was nobody.
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she was a poor girl from kentucky with literary aspirations, was hungry for an education. she was this young woman who ran into breckenridge and she was desperate to make or sell something and get an education. >> tonight, at 8:00 eastern on q&a. michael gabriel to does a class about military engagement in the american revolution the july 1776. he highlights the battle of funk or hill, the american envision of canada and the eventual ownership that tuition in boston. this class is about an hour. prof. gabriel: ok, everybody. last class, we were talking about the outbreak of the american revolution. all of this tension is building in the sg

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