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tv   Tonight From Washington  CSPAN  November 4, 2009 8:00pm-11:00pm EST

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breaking news tonight. live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted sex offender accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectivives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home, even stuffed in crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. in the last 24 hours, the body count rises. now, 11 dead women in the three-story home of former
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marine anthony sowell. the investigation goes on. so far, only one positive id made. reported missing one year ago, a mother of two girls and one boy. tonja car michael id'd through dental records. her daughter with us. her mother's body hidden in this house of horrors for the last year. hours ago, sowell in full shackle in court and in yet another bizarre twist, we confirm just weeks after sowell's release from the pen, he lists himself on a sex website seeking, quote, a submission. is this one of the ways the former marine trolled for victims? tonight, unsuspecting neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them.
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>> we have recovered 11 victims. we have recovered ten bodies and one partial skeleton from the address. they are all african-american women, seven died of ligature strangulation, one died of manual strangulation. two, the decomposition concludes accuracy sometimes and we are diagnosing it as homicidal violence in two cases. in the last case, the autopsy is ongoing. it does not appear to have a ligature and will undoubtedly be a case of violence. >> it's mounting to nearly a dozen dead women. are there more? put money on it. >> there were some in the attic. two bodies so badly decomposed they couldn't determine the sex right away. they found bodies in a crawl space below stairs.
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they found a skull inside a bucket in the basement. they found bodies buried outside, behind the home. >> we prefer to have him bound to the grand jury is that correct? >> reporter: it seems like when they go in the house, they find something more. they are going to tear through the place wall to wall and make sure there's nothing left to be found. breaking news tonight, live, the florida panhandle. a close knit community reeling after a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom as her parents vanishes without a trace. halloween, the story becoming more distorted. as we go to air, is there a break in the case? police, as we speak, combing a grave for evidence. tonight, we want to know who took baby shannon.
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>> reporter: shocking revelations in the search for shannon. the family baby sitter alleges a pattern of abuse. that baby sitter faces allegations of abuse itself. >> something is not fitting together with the story. this is a 7-month-old baby girl. she cannot walk. it's my understanding she cannot crawl, yet. >> reporter: the parents have not made any personal appeals. i really believe this story is going to be solved or this case will be solved close to home rather than far away from home. >> children and family releasing information on two investigations. >> i think they are alleging foul play. they are pointing fingers directly at the parents. >> one investigation into drug
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use around the child. a second on allegations that shook baby shannon. investigates result in no criminal charges. >> it's disturbing. i think there's serious questions about the parents and the fact they would be asleep from 3:00 a.m. to 11:00 does not make sense. >> the parents take drug tests. the search continues for baby shannon. many are asking, did it have to happen in the first place? >> good evening, i'm nancy grace, thank you for being with us. breaking news tonight, live, ohio. a sex offender accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home, even stuffed in the crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. as the excavation goes on in and
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around the home, a former marine, anthony sowell, the body count of murdered women rises. >> it's 11 victims. there were six inside the house and five recovered from the yard. seven ligature strangulations, one manual strangulation, two are homicidal violence and one autopsy is going on. >> breaking news, we have 11 bodies recovered at the home of anthony sowell. he was in court today. >> given the nature and gruesomeness, the court says you should be held without bond. >> go back to the house tomorrow and dig deeper because of the skull. >> the body is buried in the ground decomposed eight times slow slower than a body left in the air. we had two in the third floor out in the air. two bodies under dirt and we had
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five buried in the yard. so, they are all decomposing at different rates. they are months to years for how long they have been bound. >> the whole house, we are going bit by bit, piece by piece through the house, make sure we didn't miss anything. >> leaving no stone unturned? >> yes. >> ripping things apart? >> yep. the investigation goes on. the police set to tear down the walls to look in the walls starting in the morning. for those of you just joining us. cleveland suburbs, the body count rises inside a three-story house of horrors. a former marine, anthony sowell lives there. in the last 24 hours, the body count goes up to 11 murdered women. out to dan hagerty standing out in front of the home from wews,
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dan hag erty, 11 dead murdered women. so far. what are the cops plans. what more is there to investigate? they have yet to tear the walls down? >> yeah, they plan to dig a little deeper. they are working on getting a warrant to go in tomorrow morning with the fire department and they are literally going to rip the home apart. they are going to tear down the walls and check every inch and make sure nothing else is inside the house and no more bodies. >> hold on. they have to get an additional warrant to tear the walls down? >> reporter: yeah, that's what we hear. they have to have a different type of search warrant to go in and start to demolish parts of the home, tear down the walls and search the actual structure of the house. >> dan hagerty outside the home with wews, dan, i understand that they can confirm eight of the women died by strangulation,
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seven of them by ligature with a rope or pair of stockings, one by manual strangulation. is it true that the ligatures were still around the necks of the dead women? >> reporter: right. it wasn't hard for the coroner to figure that one out. it's how they knew the suspect here, anthony sowell, used a cord or rope to strangle the victims. when they found the bodies, the ones they knew had been strangled in that way still had the rope or cord around their neck. >> to ken robinson joining us from wtam 1100 a.m. news radio. joining us in front of sowell's home. ken, what more can you tell me? are people still gathering in front of the home? this is day three, wondering every time they bring a gurney out, is that my mother, my
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sister or daulgter under the sheet? >> th >> reporter: that's absolutely correct. people have been here since day one, waiting on the coroner, outside the house. this series of crimes rocked the neighborhood. there's a gamette of emotions from anguish, people wondering why the police didn't figure out something was going on here earlier. people wondering, are they safe? some lost confidence in the police. one gentleman is thinking of starting his own patrol in the neighborhood because he lost confidence in the police department. >> everyone, we are taking your calls live. with me right now is the daughter of the one woman who has been identified so far, the mother of three. she had two girls and one boy. with me is danitacarmichael, the
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daughter of tonja carmichael. thank you for being with us. >> caller: thank you for having me on. >> we are showing beautiful shots of your mom. we have her in front of a barbeque and in front of a slot machine. she's dressed in a santa claus out fit. i cannot imagine leaving lucy, my little girl and john david, my little boy behind. to grow up in this world without a mother. tell me how you learned that your mother's body had been hidden in this home for a year. >> caller: well, nancy, first of
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all, let me thank you for putting this story out there. i was listening to the show as it got started and i was hearing the response you had given. it sounded like you were speaking from the family, a lot of the things you touched on as far as what's taking so long for the other families to find the information we had to find out today. it's still unbelievable. a search warrant, are you kidding me? it's devastating enough that this this person was able to stay out on the street and do this heinous act he's done for so long without being detected. it's very hard to believe. >> everyone you are seeing -- >> we are doing well. the information we have to find out about your child is this comforting. i lost a mother.
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i have an older sister and younger brother. from the pictures, she had a beautiful smile. she was a beautiful person. she was a family oriented person. she loved her family and the holidays. she loved to make jokes that's the legacy we are trying to make sure gets out there. the slot machine. she loved vegas and going to the bahamas. those were the things for the ones who truly knew my mother.
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i don't think any of them have been there for less than a few weeks. but, we have bodies in a third floor attic, in the summer, if there's no central air, it can get to be 90 to 100 degrees in the third-floor attic. 100 degrees plus. it would be accelerating the decomposition. bodies buried in the ground decompose eight times slower than a body left in the air. we had two in the air. two bodies under dirt and five buried in the yard. they are all decomposing at different rates. they have the features of months to years of how long they have been down. some look very old, years, not months. but, it's hard to tell. it's difficult. there's four or five different disposal situations with different characteristics. attic crawl space, open air in a
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room, cool basement, bury ied i earth. they are all going to decompose at different rates. internally, body size and infection at the time of death can alter decomposition as well. >> the investigation goes on in the cleveland home, a three-story home of anthony sowell. the body count has risen. it's now at 11. and, we learn, tonight, that sowell may be linked to other crimes on women in california. isn't it correct, dan hagerty joining us from wews that sowell was stationed with the marines, he was honorably discharged in north carolina and california. what can you tell me about the possibility he's connected to crimes in california? >> reporter: all we know now is he did enlist in the marines in 1978. he was 18 years old. he was a marine for eight years.
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he served in north carolina and california. we know he's being investigated now as possibly connected to unsolved rapes there, in those states. for now, especially in concord, california investigations to see if he's connected to unsolved rapes there. >> stacy, what have we learned as we went to air tonight? >> reporter: when you think it couldn't get more bizarre, we uncovered that anthony sowell controlled a sex fetish website. was he using it to lure victims? we don't know. what i can tell you is weeks after his release from prison, he put up a profile wanting to dominate women using the sex fetish website. >> you are seeing the anthony sowell profile from a sex fetish website, alt.com, the one stacy
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is describing now. are you telling me he did this just weeks after getting out of the pen on attempted rape? >> just weeks. and, what we are uncovered is his last log in was at least three months ago. >> we are taking your calls live. to barbara in maryland. hi, barbara. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear. what's your question. >> caller: if only there were more people like you in the world, we would be much better off. your twins are angels. my question is, why on earth wasn't anyone watching this monster when he was released from prison? >> to sergeant scott, sergeant i've never seen -- actually i have seen a few cases like this. he got sentenced to 15 years. he did the full 15. that's my understanding.
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that's extremely rare. they have not let this guy out. and he did all sorts of classes behind bars like cage your age. they made him go through that. they made him go through anger management. they knew he has a severe problem. >> absolutely. somebody who does the full 15 years, doesn't get paroled or out on probation, they are a dangerous person. they are not going to be rehi bill at a timed and they had a responsibility to follow this person closely. >> what about it pat brown? >> absolutely. he created a lot of crimes before he was 30 and lots when he came out.
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miss carmichael disappeared approximate ly a year ago in november. the investigation was ongoing, i believe by the lawrenceville heights police department. >> she was the first one recover frd the backyard and she was a ligature strangulation. there was something around the neck. >> anthony sowell has been charged with five counts after aggravated murder. that could possibly rise and investigators continue to go through the bodies. >> and the suspect, anthony sowell in court just a couple hours ago.
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he had on a paper outfit that they dress you in when they are afraid you may commit suicide. ken robinson with 1100 a.m., why was he in court? >> he was in court to answer the charges. he was being arraigned in municipal court. agencies do that to get the ball rolling. it's a preliminary deal. >> right. >> reporter: it will likely go to the grand jury. >> he was in court answering up on charges. unleash the lawyers. kirby, alan rip ka of new york. kirby, put him and ripka up, please. dressed in a paper outfit. his lawyer is behind that. kerby, he's on a sex line trolling for victims as recently as three months ago. we can confirm he's not crazy.
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>> he might be -- he still is crazy. he's got 11 bodies in his house. >> crazy like a fox. go ahead ripka. >> first, you have to prove he did it. he could claim someone else did all this and he stood by. >> put his face on the screen. you can smell the stench a block away. you're telling me he didn't know all the bodies were in the house. >> no one has proven he did this, yet.
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six of them are described as african-american women and at least five of them appear to have been strangled. they were found in and around the house of 50-year-old anthony sowell. >> a whole lot of people showing up in the neighborhood. dozens of missing women and their families and loved ones have been showing up here to figure out if their loved ones are one of the bodies inside the home. >> the likelihood there are victims in other places, missing people that were never recovered
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is extremely high. >> they go and look at california and north carolina where he was stationed with the marines, there are going to be women there that have never been found or accounted for. >> get the dna from the suspect. we are in the process of entering it in the state and national data base to see if we have hits relative to this particular suspect across our nation. >> this is exactly ten bodies in different stages of decomposition. >> the body count rising in the last 24 hours to 11 bodies. now, an additional search warrant has to be obtained for the police to start tearing down the walls. don't think it's farfetched. if you recall the recent yale medical student, annie le, her
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body was hidden in a 24 inch space in the wall. before they can tear down the house of horrors, they are to go back to court to get another search warrant. it's why the wall excavation did not happen today. there's a crowd of mourners and onlookers standing beyond the ye yellow crime scene tape. one each time a body is pulled out on a gurney, is that my mother, sister or daughter who went missing? we are taking your calls live. out to deb in michigan. hi, deb. >> caller: hi. i want to thank you for fight ing for those who don't have a voice. >> thank you. >> caller: my question is, the serial killer, are they going to look at his past addresses to see if there are bodies there. >> what do we know about that? i mean, i know he got out of the pen on atechted rape conviction, 15 years in the pen on that.
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did he move straight here to this location or was there a stop over in between? >> reporter: he moved here, in this neighborhood in this house in cleveland and he's lived here since after being released from prison. like we have said, the coroner hasn't given an exact date on when they are killed, but it could be years, months, weeks. >> back to you, stacy. what do you know about any link to california crimes? >> cops are looking into coronado, california. they are looking into a 1979 rape case there. there are report that is a woman in north carolina came forward to say she believes she was raped by sowell sometime in the '70s. cops have not been able to verify that. they are looking into that as well. >> i'm going to go to a special
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guest we have with us tonight. dr. lillian glass out of l.a. and pat brown criminal profiler and author. also with us is the daughter of the only victim, as of tonight, that e that's been positively identified. lillian glass, pat brown, let's talk to it briefly before i go to the victim's daughter. lillian glass, i have three scenarios in mind. number one, he's acting out of rage and anger toward women. two, after being convicted on attempted rape and doing 15 years, he decided to kill all of his future victims so there are would be no evidence, no live witnesses and three, he has a desire to murder. those are my only three scenarios. any other ideas, lillian glass? >> they are all correct and absolutely right.
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this is a man who hates women. he's methodical. >> hold on. i want to see the photos of tonja carmichael. she's a beautiful mother of three. she leaves behind two girls and a boy. her body, hidden in sowell's home for the past year. decomposing, along with the bodies of ten other women, that we know of. go ahead, lillian. >> no, you are absolutely correct. when you are looking at the pain that this family has to endure now, my heart goes out to the daughter and to all the relatives. it's so difficult. >> to you, pat brown, theorys on
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motive. not that the state needs it. don't tell me he's crazy. don't sing that same tired song. he's trolling for victims as recently as nine weeks ago. he's not crazy. what about motive. >> you'll never hear the crazy word from me when it comes to serial killers. somewhere they have lost control. they want to get back to society and back to women. they like to put the blame somewhere. i would be curious as to what his behaviors were in the marines. you get that because they want to get rid of you. they will give you an honorable discharge just to get you out of here. he did not just jump up at 30 years old and decide to rape and kill women. >> i think you may be right about that, pat brown. that's certainly -- veterans all over this country are shocked
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this guy is a former marine that served our country. i want to go to dr. kent harshbarger. we know that many of the bodies still had the ligature around the neck. that's a whole 'nother psychological can of worms. before i go there, how can they tell, with the other mode of death? >> well, it's assumed from the scene, generally. they can't find a cause of death because of decomposition, it will be homicidal -- >> i wondered what he meant by that. >> it means we can't tell. from the scenario, the circumstances around the death, there's no other explanation other than violence. >> have you ever dealt with a forensic artist, a
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reconstructivist? i had to when bodies were so decomposed they could not be identified. you could get a sketch, a composite sketch of what you thought the victim looked like. have you ever dealt with one of those artists? >> yes, i have. it's rare nowadays because of dna and other technologies. it's done. it's done by tissue thickness. it takes an artist, eye color, the shape of the nose. the artist is creating the look of the person. >> it's very, very difficult. it's a highly, highly specialized field. this is tonja carmichael's daughter. her mother's body is positively identified as one of the 11 women in sowell's home.
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miss carmichael, i didn't hear, during the last interchange how you discovered your mother was one of sowell's alleged victims. >> caller: the police actually came to my grandmother's home, my mom's mother's home and told us there was a positive dna match. >> i'm just looking at these pictures of your mom. she has the most beautiful smile. tell me something about her. what were her joys in life? what was she like? >> caller: well, as you can see from the photographs, she had a gorgeous smile, thank you for the complement on that. she loved her family. she loved holidays and vacation. she loved to cook and prepare meals, thanksgiving and christmas. she loved seafood. she loved trips to vegas.
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she just loved her family. she loved being around her family. >> she loved life. everyone, you are seeing shots of victim tonja carmichael. tonight, safety tips, women are easy targets, especially at night. how can you protect yourself? have a place to meet others. never leave a drink unattended, it's so easy to slip the dhp in it. locate exits in case of emergency. trust your instinct. if you don't feel safe for some reason, go to nfpa.org.
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just two months before shannon went missing, the baby sitter says she alerted the governor of florida the baby may be in danger. she alleges shannon was being abu abused, shaken and was around
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drugs and cigarettes. the baby sitter faced abuse allegations in her past. >> 41-year-old james arthur baker and his wife susan, also 41 reported their 3-year-old son missing. a search turned up nothing. they moved out of south carolina and into rural washington county, florida. authorities were suspicious. washington keocounty sheriff's investigators began watching their property closely. south carolina authorities received a tip they killed their son and dumped the body. >> reporter: they have a person of interest, but refuse to name them. where is 7-month-old baby shannon. >> straight out to allison walker of wmbb. police are searching a gray van in connection with little shannon's disappearance. who owns the van?
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>> reporter: the sheriff's office and the florida department of law enforcement are not saying who owns the van. they have it at the sheriff's office. they are looking for evidence not van. they said that susan baker does drive a gray van. we do not have that confirmed. we don't know that for sure. >> susan baker is the baby sitter? >> yes, nancy. she's been there two months working with the fakly. she sent an e-mail to the governor of florida, charlie crist, pleading with him a few weeks ago to save the child saying the child is around an abusive household. the child has been shaken by her parents and also shannon has also inhaled drugs such as marijuana and smoke from cigarettes when staff instructed them not to smoke around the
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child. >> she has problems of her own? >> she does. they stem back to 1987 when the sitter reported her stepson missing. he was 3 years old. when she returned, the child was gone. >> when she returned from where? >> the home. it's not clear where she went. when she came back, the 3-year-old was gone. investigators searched for the 3-year-old boy. they examined her stepdaughter. she has welts and broken bones. >> she becomes a baby sitter in the home where shannon disappears. that doesn't clear up the discrepancie discrepancies. they say the baby is asleep in the room with them, they sleep until 11:30 in the morning. by that time, i have been up at least five hours. so, they are sacked out 11:30
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a.m., then find out the baby is missing. >> reporter: yes. that's true. >> they place themselves with the missing child at the time she disappears, correct? >> that's correct. >> with us tonight, fay woods, the god mother of the missing child shannon. thank you for being with us. miss wood, what can you tell me about the home where this little girl lived? >> they live down the road from where we reside at. i have been in the house without telling me they are coming. open up the door and i would go in. the baby was always fine. they never abused that child. that baby was healthy and everybody says the baby weighed 11 pounds. it wunz a big 30 pound baby.
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she was a premie when she was born. >> what can you tell us about marriage and cigarette smoke in around the baby. >> i hope you are right about that. cigarettes are bad enough, they are a known contributor to sudden infant death indrom. miss wood, for the longest time the parent's names were not out there. they are not making public pleas. why did they want to keep their name secret. >> they are doing what the sheriff of washington county asked them to do. >> kirby, alan, this is it. you have the parents sacked out until 11:30 a.m. no baby sleeps until 11:30 a.m. no. all right. that's not a statistic, that's
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just what i know. now, you have this baby sitter coming on to the scene. she had a missing child. kirby, what about it? >> i think the baby sitter is suspect one. when children are around her, they go missing. in the letter to the governor, who does that. she could have called children family services. there's something wrong with the baby sitter. >> alan what about it? there are no named suspects. >> because they have no evidence against the baby sitter or either one of the parents. >> you don't know that? >> if they did, they would be a person of interest. >> they may not want to name them, yet. they may know who they are
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looking at. i'm sure we have heard of that play before. >> jump up and say they don't have evidence. it's a baldthere. >> if you're thinking the police are thinking the parents or baby sit rer going lead them to the child, i hope that's case. there's been nothing said to lead us to that. >> you're seeing a shot of little shannon, 11 pounds, two feet all th feet tall. on happy note, this time, two years ago, my twins, lose si and john david and myself were all in intensive care. today they turn two. i believe your prayers were heard. breaking news, prayer changes things. this was this morning about 5:30 a.m. i made them cook dois go with
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their candle. those were paper crowns we made for them to wear today.
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i think another huge gap in the story is the fact that the parents have not made personal appeals. i believe this story or case will be solved close to home rather than far way from home. >> we are taking your calls tonight. this little baby, allegedly taken out of her parents' bedroom until 11:30 a.m. according to them, the baby never made a peep. >> caller: thank you for taking my call.
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>> what is your question? >> caller: i just heard again that the parents didn't make a personal plea. did the local affiliates make that available to them? if so, did they turn them down? >> you're seeing new shots we have obtained of little shannon. she's absolutely beautiful. to faye wood, the godmother of missing child shannon. i'm sure news cruise have approached the parents and offered them the opportunity to make a public plea. >> they have not. >> i find that hard to believe. have they approached the media themselves? miss wood? >> they have finally, the sheriff's department have offered a $10,000 ran some for the return of the child. >> that would be a reward,
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$10,000 everyone. the tip line, 850-638-6111. what do you make of it, pat? >> the parents did something to the child or the babysitter has access to the home, now their habits, snatched is baby, they had no reason to wake up because the baby never woke up again. >> nobody has been named a person of interest or a suspect in the case. let's stop and remember, navy petty officer, michael monsoor, killed iraq. awarded the medal of honor, a na navy s.e.a.l. leaves le hind grieving parents,
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brothers and a sister. michael monsoor, american hero. thanks to our guests. thanks to you for being with us. i'll see you tomorrow night. until then, good night, friend. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight on"the joy behar show." sex addicts. why some people can't get enough. dr. drew pinsky puts us on the couch for counseling. from compulsive eating to other problems, stars battle their bad habits. did maine voters leave gay
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marriage standing at the altar?
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tonight on "the joy behar show." sex, sex, sex, can too much of a good thing be bad thing? when it comes to an addiction, yes. dr. drew pinsky will be joining me along with two sex addict. then, there was an election last night. republicans are deleer krous about some victories. are they celebrating too soon? sex and politics. nicholas cage, shop skrn aholic. did he land in the poor house? all this and more, tonight.
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here's a question, does being a sex addict make a man a bad husband? if he's getting his fix from another woman, i would say yeah. baseball analyst steve phillips and david duchovny are two admitted sex addicts. they're not alone. between 3% and 6% of the american population say they're sex addicts. go figure. here to discuss sexual addiction is dr. drew pinsky, this generation's dr. ruth. except he's not 4'8". he's the star of vh-1's "sex
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rehab with dr. drew." british film director duncan roy and nicole morraine. you're out there somewhere. we know you're there. >> thanks. >> by the way, i saw your tape with colin farrell, yikes. >> i can't see you watching that. that's cool, i guess. >> i have my secrets. steve phillips, this guy, espn, he has sex with a 22 kreerld, he gets caught and goes to sex rehab. is he really a sex addict or a horny guy? >> i don't know him. he had to have met criteria for addiction before he got admitted to a program for sexual addicts. people get glib. they say it's just an excuse.
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substitute cocaine instead of sex. the courts, families, doctors bring people to treatment. it's relativery rare that people stand up and say, i have to get my cocaine addiction taken care of today. there has to be kons dwoeconseq get you to go. >> the easy way out of that situation is to leave your wife, end up in a hotel room with coke and hookers. that's the easy way out. not to stand up and say, i need help. >> i don't remember saying that was the easy way out. you're getting me mixed up with whoopi goldberg. what letterman? >> i don't know. the one that stands out as an easy one is bill clinton.
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there's somebody that had horrible consequences. >> do you think he's addicted to sex or doesn't have self-control. what is the difference? >> duncan, go ahead. nicole wanted to ring in, too. >> i spoke to dr. drew about this recently because i was struggling with the fact that i had so in m questions after i was on the show. i explained to him that being a sex addict and being someone who is addicted to love, where being -- being a love addict and having that fear of abandonment and that underlying fear of intimacy, i was asking, how do you deem yourself recovered from that. it's a lot more treatable to be recovered from being a sex addict. where, you know, for like in duncan's case, being online eight, nine hours a day watching porn, i would imagine at some
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point that can be recovered. >> not mention the carpal tunnel syndrome. is there a difference between a female addict and male addict? the way she describes is it women who love too much? >> women dom sex addition through love addiction. they have elaborate fantasies. we have them as teenage rs. some people get stuck in them. romeo and juliet were love addicts. the outcome wasn't too good. >> listen, romeo and juliet is because the families disagreed. >> the fantasy is what becomes paramoubn paramount. >> the myth about sex addiction -- >> it's hard to -- >> hold on, nicole. >> the myth about sex adix is
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that it's about sex. it's not. it's about filling the void. it's about intrigue, flirtation. those are just as important and pornography. >> how much is danger sinvolved in all of it too. >> well, for me, a lot i was completely interested in dangerous encounters with guys. the last time i relapsed was with a cop with a gun at my head. >> it's more about the thrill of the danger, getting caught. >> for me it's about replicating the trauma. >> let's talk about the trauma. i understand you had a trauma as a young child. a serious thing. >> we can laugh about it. >> i can't. we'll move on to other things that are funny. this is not. you were raped by your step father, aim right? >> from 2 until 13. >> two years old, that is not
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funny. >> the average age of sex abuse towards kids is about 2 years old. people are abusing infants. >> weave come through a wave of this. the repliations of traumas through sexually acting out and refeegt traumas by becoming a stripper, prostitute. people compulsively replicate. >> do all sex addicts have abuse in their past? >> not always. >> i grew up having my boundaries violated. definitely. >> and neglect, abandonment? >> and abuse. >> i was kicked out at 16 years old. i've had to learn survival at such a young age and before being, on top of that having your boundaries violated. that confusion doesn't really help now that i'm out in the
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world by myself. it's like, what do i do now? how do i handle all this stuff? what's right, wrong, where do i go find comfort? what man, how do i trust that man? >> well said. >> she puts it succintly. >> when i'm on my own, pornography is debilitating. i'm talking about getting up in the morning seven days a week and sitting at my computer all day. >> how much does the internet play in all of this? >> there's a huge problem with the internet. sorry do you want to do this? >> i want you to do it. i'll sprinkle the highlights on top. >> i'm the one that's on the internet. the problem with the internet is that in years gone by, before the internet, people would find images and they would be the
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same kind of images. if they evolved sexually into wanting to see other more dangerous things, it would be hard for them. you you're only three clicks way from something that would land you in prison. >> it's changed the landscape. that's like having a crack pipe for the sex addict on their desk all the time. >> how dad did your addiction get? i understand you were into masturbation a lot. isn't that from anxiety? >> it's a way of managing. >> i try hard not to think about m masturbating too much. i had a day where i could not get out of bed. it was a constant thing.
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i didn't want to eat food because that was my feed for the day. it was exhausting. it was scary. it consumed my entire day. i try hard not to have any triggers around, you know, around me where i would feel like i need to masturbate today. i'm fearful of not getting out of bed for the day. i'm definitely better. i'm still human, don't get me wrong. we all have to clean the pipes once in awhile. >> is that an addiction? she stopped eating, it could cure your addiction to food. think about it like that. more dom, stick around. always look on the bright side.
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now you had childhood trauma. what happened? >> like certain family members just you know, just touch you inappropria inappropriately. things i know were wrong. but for me, it's like i don't know how you talk about this stuff. >> i'm sure you were tretenned. you didn't deserve that. >> that was a clip from the vh-1 show "sex rehab with dr. drew." how do you treat sex addictions? >> it's so deeply embedded in who the person is and in trauma. the big difference for me was gnat you leap very quickly into
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very hef sli landscape, deep issues come up quickly. lots of education in sex rehab. drug addicts won't sit through the education that sex addict candidates gobble up. they respond well to the care. a sex rehab treatment center has to have patients that can sit through lectures and have to be willing to change with stuff that is subtle and deeply embedded in who you are. >> you can't have a.d.d. at the same time. >> it's difficult, but there are. >> you were working with chemical addicts. >> we put together a team. the way these guys, their kournlg was spectacular. the way they left into the process is amaze, compared to drug addicts. if they leap in, they use t as an excuse to do drugs.
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>> i had been sober by 13 years by the time i hit this wall. >> kek call sober. sober from drugs and alcohol for 13 years. about eight months before i did the show i hit wall. i transferred all of my addictions into sex and internet and all the other stuff i was going. >> people that are addicted to things, they give it up, they find something else. >> there's though logic, reason. >> you gave up booze and drugs. you've been rehabilitated as a sex addict. right? almost. >> there's no cure for addiction. it's a progressive condition that can be arrested. i have to, on daily basis is arrest my condition. that's allky do. >> and nicole is saying sex addiction is so deeply
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emotional. >> there's so much trauma, too. that's the difference between being a sex addict and dealing with the abandonment and intimacy issues. >> it's interesting how some addicts become very religious. they become extremely -- george bush was an alcoholic. he became very, very religious, it was all about the lord. it's like another addiction in a certain way. >> addicts are prone to extremes. relidge yosty, i don't see that that much. you would be surprised. >> george bush would have appreciated a 12-step program. he would have been a better guy. a dry drunk. >> you have eight good looking sex addicts living together. isn't that a recipe for disaster? >> no, that's professional
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environment. yes, drug addicts do drugs, they do them together. >> drug addicts is different. that's no drugs around. >> we really wanted it. >> wanted what? >> i really wanted sexual sobriety. these people came to the end of the road. there was flirtation. you wanted sobriety more than you wanted to get laid again. >> we had them dress a certain way, they were not allowed to touch each other. >> what about during the night? >> we were in bed by 10:00. >> we watched them. we watch for sexual improe pry tis. we could not monitor masturbation. >> did you confess about that, nicole? >> no, i didn't.
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>> she made it. >> i made it through. >> good for you. they're all gorgeous people. are there any ugly sex adducts that you treat? are all of them so gorgeous? >> i don't cast the shows. i try to not get involved at all. if i come upon someone and they need treatment, i don't say, hey, wait until the cameras heat up in a couple of months. >> hathere are more men than women. >> i think the men are sex addicts. the women are sex addicts. >> you know what, it's funny, i wish there was a different name for love addict because it does sound like, so sweet and trite. >> it's co-dependency. >> it's such a deeper issue when you're dealing with abandonment and intimacy issues. i didn't know there was a difference between sex and love.
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i thought they were the same thing until i did the show. >> a lot of people make that mistake. >> that's true, but that's how a lot of people get in trouble. we live in a time where we've destroyed intimacy. the substitute is power control, intensity. that's not intimacy. we don't have good models for intimacy. sex becomes the surrogate, fantasy becomes the surrogate. >> my relationships, that's what i dealt with. i lived mote of my relationships in intensity rather than intimacy. >> are you both abstaining? >> you have to define your own bottom line. for me, i'm not allowed to jerk off compulsively, i'm sorry, masturbate, not allowed to look
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at hook up sites. i can have sex with consenting adults, because i wasn't. >> the danger thing? >> that's my bottom line behavior. that's with worst thing i could do. more when we come back. don't go away.
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i'm back with my guests, dr. drew pinsky, from the vh-1 show "sex rehab with dr. drew" and two of the cast members, duncan roy and play buoy play mate nicole narain. i have questions from people that have twittered and tweeted. we went through the difference between male and female. one is love, one is sex. >> they end up in the same place. >> you to think the way we americans view sex has something to do with sexual addiction? >> i don't.
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i don't see it. i see nothing but sex everywhere in the country. you come from another country. what you to think? >> i don't see you as being prudish. i see things about gay and straight. i think people have a lot more sexual fluidity. here, they would be he's in the closet. he's in deniadenial. >> that's why people say all the brits with gay. >> most straight men would encourage women to perform for them two women in the bed, that's a big straight fantasy, apparently. what does that mean for most women, that they're really closeted lesbians? i don't think so. >> it's different for women. >> because they couldn't get hurt? >> explain to me, when we talk
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about pedophilia. is that another category? >> they can be. but they can be parts of sexual addiction. >> i think pedophilia, they have trouble dealing with. >> we tell patients to get help before they hurt themselves or somebody else. >> what about medication? does that work? >> it has a role to be played but in certain situations. that's not treatment for sexual addiction per se. >> janet was married to a sex addict for 20 years. he needed the danger. the threat of being caught, even the possibility of dying. during sex. >> same here. >> duncan said that's him, too. >> of dying? >> i felt like i was trying replicate what i was doing as a kid. when you're being raped at 4
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years old, you think you're diagnose. you're being challenged in so many different ways. finding that as an adult takes you into terrible, terrible places. >> let me get last word from nicole. you to feel like you're almost over this? where are you? >> i'm in los angeles right now. >> no, i mean where are you emotionally. >> oh. >> that might have said it. i'm not sure. >> you're right. >> i'm so glad i dyed my hair back brown. where am i in recovery? >> yes. >> believe it or not, i feel good about my recovery right now. i haven't had sex in like over a month. that's by choice. >> good for you, she's better. >> i'm single and dating. i'm taking my time. >> thank you all, nicole, do you
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thinken, thank you for joining me. dr. drew, hang tight. hollywood stars in compulsive behavior. i know, shocking.
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about america's culture of adick it's celebrities. these days, nicolas cage is in serious financial trouble thanks to what some people are calling a crippling fnl addiction. and kirstie alley is having trouble with eating addictions. joining us is jill zarin and ashleigh banfield.
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>> i was doing cocaine. i was crazy as -- i was, i had come in and i don't think anybody knew what those drugs were then. they would say, i'm so crazy. i would say, i'm high. >> when did you stop doing them? >> 1979. i did my share, and yours. >> did she ah replace a drug addiction with a food addiction? >> it seems that way. that can be the case. some people with get sober from a chemical addiction and another addiction kicks in. >> you see this a lot with your work? >> i see wit my colleagues. jane velez-mitchell has a great book about how we replace some things with others. we all have a bit of a problem.
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>> but some are safe adicks. is every juan bad addiction? >> by definition. >> exercise? >> exercise bull leem ya is not. >> the consequences have to be negative. continued behavior despite negative consequence. >> say i had again slowly. >> continued behavior despite negative consequences. >> it has to have a negative impact. >> with weight addictions and food adicks it gets tricky. on the one hand, you have queen latifah saying i'm big and beautiful. and then the anorexic starlets saying i look beautiful this way. >> in my treatment center, if somebody has an addiction enough to see me, a chemical addiction
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can be linked to child hood trauma. we see cutting, eating disorders, sexual addiction and compulsion. eating is part of the syndrome in trauma today. >> it's frustrating, the number of celebrities that go on television and do the tell-all interviews with how proud they are of their look, the larger than life look and the next year they're losing 75 pounds. >> then she put it back on to get another reality show. now to get one but kirstie alley had a show on shotime. now she's back again. >> she's capitalized on her weight. >> i found that show entertaining. real life is not entertaining for me. >> she lost weight on the jenny craig diet.
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i was on that. they paid me to lose weight. >> paying people is way to motivate them. >> do a job on tv. they didn't pay me, i had to lose the weight. >> you're saying if you pay someone they might give up the addiction? >> look at the rehab programs i have done. we brought them in and treated them because they wanted to get paid. >> what makes you think they won't go back to the behavior? >> they could. they're not. >> are they not, they're cured? >> no, they're better than average. >> do you think people on reality shows are addicted to tv, the spotlight? >> it depends on how you got on. for me, they approached me. >> not jill, everybody else, though. >> he did a whole thesis. >> i know about your book. i think it depends on the person. i don't think you can say there's a rule for anybody.
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i have made a business out of this. i'm a spokes person for kodak doing great -- i'm writing a book. all these things, aim guilty for wanting to be successful? >> you're addicted to capitalism. >> i'm making money to support any shopping addiction. >> another 'ledged hollywood addict is suing his former money manager for sending him into debt. now sours say he was addicted to spending. he has a dozen homes, a few dozen cars like this bugatti. only 710 of them were made. a gulfstream private jet. he also owns a couple of islands in the bahamabahamas. a dinosaur skull.
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that would look stunning on my m mantle. and castle. he makes only about $20 million a year. >> after the manager and taxes, there's not a lot left. >> scratch all that off the block. his big spending ticket. you go to a nice restaurant in new york city, you go because you think you can cannot afford it. all of a sudden, you find out that you don't have the money to go to it, your restaurant is his leer jet. they make for good talking. it doesn't matter what he bought. it's about the paperwork. >> he spent more than he has. >> my manager doesn't tell me how much i can spend at nobu. i know how much i can spend. >> you have to, when you get your bank statement, i check every check to make sure i signed it. i sign every check. >> she's a businesswoman.
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>> this kind of spending is grandiose spending. on a grand scale. it makes me worry that he's bipolar, manic. some people get very high on debting. it's not the buying, it's the debting that they get off on. >> what turns them on about being in debt? >> it's people that struggled early in life. they only feel alive in that situation. >> that's so interesting. i once heard that gamblers could be bipolar. i would say, did you win? nah. >> i thought they were trying get the next win. >> some go out of body. people go in the casinos in diapers. most gambling addicts. >> they don't allow that in atlantic city. >> just vegas. >> people coming off the buses
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in dirps. >> we're crossing over the thing here. the fact is that most gamblers like the thrill of losing. it's when they feel alive. >> they don't feel alive when they're winning. >> some do. the majority of my experience -- >> my heart races when i'm winning. >> you're not a gambling addict. >> it's normal to get excited when you're winning at roulette. >> i think this is the issue can cage. he's saying, i'm not like jill. i'm not smart enough to follow my own money. that's why i pay this guy to follow it for me. we need to find out if they had an agreement. i do have cart plblaplanche?
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>> sell one plane. >> he's putting everything on the market. >> you can sell everything at a price. >> it seems to me, you know women on the upper east side that are shopping addicts. you see them buying 100 fendi bags and gucci bags. are those real addicts? or can their husbands afford it? >> does it matter? >> if people, when they have emotional disregulation. you referred earlier to the emptiness. it is more of a compulsion and addiction. >> that's the pathology. >> some women do it because they're lonely. the husbands don't come home until late or not at all. >> true emptyness is a pathology. >> i get high buying a lipstick.
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you don't have to have a gucci bag to get this. >> i have a problem with shoes. >> what sit with women and shoes? explain that to me. >> we'll be right back. thank you so much for being here today. that was a lot of fun.
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what the republicans have been doing is an instoult america. they've been dragging their feet. these are foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging ne ander that wills who think they do dictate to america. >> voters in new jersey and virginia didn't agree. the governors-elect in both
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states both republicans. i'm joined by the man that threw those bombs, alan grayson. i do enjoy you. >> same here. i enjoy you, too. >> the governor's races were won in virginia and new jersey. is obama's popularity waning or what do you think? >> the democratic party has to activate the vote. the republicans ablgt rate is their vote. the democrats have not done as good a job at the republicans. the voter turnout in virginia was down by half. i don't think half of all voters in virginia disappeared. some of them felt motivated to vote. too many of people on our side didn't feel motivated to vote. we have to motivate our base. >> the exit polls in virginia
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and new jersey, both of them said they still like president obama. the vote had nothing to do with him. do you agree with that? >> people elected obama, me, because they want change. they need to see more of it. we need to deliver. the people with expectations that voted for us need to have the expectations satisfied. there's are lessons to republicans. you didn't talk about new york. >> that was one for the team. >> think we're witnessing the disintegration of major political party. the last time that two of those counties that new york congressional district were represented by democrats was in 1850. 1850. i think we're seeing that the tea baggers are no longer obeying the corporate pay masters.
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>> it's interesting. limbaugh and palin both backed the republicaning up there. that didn't work. what sit about the right wing attack machine. they're full of bluster and out there voicing the hatred. and it doesn't translate to votes, by and large. >> only 20% of americans identify as republicans. they're split and splintered and falling apart. >> what does it aabout independent voters? >> they have a lot of say. they're the balance of power between the two parties. we're down to 1 1/2 parties. the republicans don't have anything to offer ordinary people. you ask what people want for health care, education, jobs, they have no answers. they're the party of no, and no doesn't cut it anymore. >> i hope youl with keep speaking out and saying the wonderful things you say.
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we like them. >> thank you, joy. i want to turn to randi rhodes. hi, randi. >> congratulations. >> thank you. let's start with these races. what did you make of all of it? >> one of them was a real change election. the other one i thought -- >> which one? >> i thought new jersey, they had it with the whole wall street bailout. >> you can't blame people for being aggravated by that. >> i don't blame them. he ran a dirty campaign. i don't think corzine needed to go there with the fat joke. >> do you think that had something to do with the reason he lost? >> it's what everybody ended up talking about. instead of how to bring jobs to new jersey or lower property taxes. people were says, oh, my god,
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john corzine -- >> i think it has to do with him. >> he's not the most -- you wouldn't want to have dinner with john corzine. >> have you had dinner with him? >> no. >> you staid governor races were a vote for obama. >> i said that's change election. i think new jersey and virginia were voting for change. i think virginia made a huge mistake. the change they're going get is women are chatle and -- >> in virginia? >> they're still fighting the civil war. virginia is one of the best managed states in the united states. because they had 12 years of democratic governors. they had tim kaine. and they have -- who is leaving you, mark warner. finances in virginia are really, really solid. the thing on the ballot is a trance forpassion issue.
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a lot of traffic in virginia. they were upset about transportati transportation. guy that won, bob mcdonl, he liked when you and me were chatle, when we coulden own things and couldn't vote. >> oh, those were the days. >> he ran as a moderate. he decided to put all the social issues aside and run with bob loves jobs. or bob for jobs. i mean, he ran as a complete moderate. never talked about essential issues. the conservatives are harping on that and they're going to lose. >> you to think the tea par partying, the palins, the limbaugh is -- >> they inserted themselves in new york. that was a talk radio race. they needed to win one so beck
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and rush and sean, and mark levin, in a bunker in his his, you know, screaming and yelling. he's i.m.'ing sean hannity every day telling him what to say. they're very coordinated. they picked this new york 23rd race and decided they would back the conservatives. there was a republican and a conservative. they backed the conservative. this guy, hoffman, no one knew him. he's an accountant. he was a cpa. >> why didn't they back the republican? >> because they wanted to show that the republican party is no longer their party. that the republican -- they're running away from bush. >> do they want a third party? >> they do. they can't get anybody elected for dogcatcher. if you read "the new york times," david brooks, a conservative -- you have to differentiate. he wrote a column saying these guys couldn't get anybody elected with their 600, 700 radio stations. >> i wonder if that's true.
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that could be on the part of david brooks. i'm still worried about them. sit tight. we have more with you. we'll be back in a minute.
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i'm back discussing last night's election results with randi rhodes, a nationally syndicated talk show host. let's talk about maine. maine voted to repeal a law that would allow gay marriages. did that surprise you at all? >> you know, joy, i think madison is rolling over in his grave. you know, the reason why we have a legislative branch and the reason why they make the law is so that the majority can never be tyrannical over the minority. every time you put one of these things on the ballot you get all this money coming in from out of state, from out of district, you know, from all over the place.
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these questions that should decided by state legislature or our federal government, quite frankly. barack obama was at the human campaigns right dinner not too long ago and he was the keynote speaker. the other news he made was that he was going to work to repeal doma, defensive marriage act. there's where it belongs. it belongs legislated in the house and senate and signed by the president and get it done. it's surprising to me, all these conservatives with their values. they pick and choose from the constitution what they like. the 14th amendment applies to other people besides george bush. the 14th amendment is equal protection and belongs to everybody. all rights commonly available to you, me, and everybody that's watching are available to all people. regardless -- that's why it was very important that the hate crimes legislation for the first time barack obama put the whole glbt, transgendered, too, into federal law. that was the first time there was ever a law that mentioned in
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federal law gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered people. now, he's got to -- >> why is it that whenever they put it on a ballot, a proposition or anything it dies? >> so much money in the district. you have church money coming in which, you know, separation of church and state. they kind of like it, but, you know, then the churches get involved and they -- they like their tax exempt status but don't want to stay out of politics. you get this money coming in from people. i think maine saw -- even this hoffman guy in new york 23, all the money came from outside the district. maine, same thing. it came from this group, something like people for the defensive marriage or something like that. it's out of state money. >> it always fascinates me how heteros are upset about gay marriage. as if my husband is a drunk and he beats me, but it's because frank and larry are getting married i'm having a problem. >> my husband used to say, what i need is another wife.
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you're too much for me to do. get somebody else. >> do you think this maine vote is going to stop the momentum of gay rights or another little glitch? >> when you leave it to the public -- the public is never going to vote themselves higher taxes but they want better schools. public is never going to vote other peoples' rights -- >> in this country we don't know what we're getting for taxes. in europe, you have health care, trains running all over the place. you get your money's worth. >> joy, you have socialism. >> that's why people don't want to pay taxes here's because we don't get much for it. >> i think we do. we're in new york city and have the most amazing mass transportation. we have -- i can come from d.c. to here in, you know, two hours. >> big deal, but you can't go to chicago really easily. >> that's what warren buffett is building. >> good for him. thanks, randi. thank you and thanks to all of my guests tonight. good night, everybody.
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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com
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breaking news tonight. live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted sex offender accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home, even stuffed in crawl spaces. bombshell tonight -- in the last 24 hours, the body count rises. now, 11 dead women in the three-story home of former marine anthony sowell.
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and the excavation goes on. so far only one positive i.d. made. reported missing one year ago, a mother of two girls and one boy. tonia carmichael i.d.'d through dental records. also i.d.'d in the last 24 hours. tonight, her daughter with us. her mother's body hidden in this house of horrors for the last year. just hours ago, sowell in full shackle in court and in yet another bizarre twist, we confirm just weeks after sowell's release from the pen, he lists himself on a sex website seeking, quote, asub missive. is this one of the ways the former marine trolled for victims? tonight, unsuspecting neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them. >> we have recovered 11 victims.
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we have recovered ten bodies and one partial skeleton from the imperial avenue address. they are all african-american women, seven died of ligature strangulation, one died of manual strangulation. two, the decomposition concludes accuracy sometimes and we are diagnosing that as homicidal violence in two cases. in the last case, the autopsy is ongoing. it does not appear to have a ligature and will undoubtedly be a case of either manual strangulation or homicidal violence. >> it is now mounting to nearly a dozen dead women. are there more? put money on it. >> there were some in the attic. that's where they were first discovered. two bodies so badly decomposed they couldn't determine the sex right away. they also found bodies in a crawl space below some stairs. they found a skull inside a bucket in the basement.
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they also found bodies buried outside behind the home. >> we prefer to have him bound to the grand jury for further proceedings, is that correct? >> seems like every time they go into this house they find something more. they are going to tear through the place wall to wall and make sure there's nothing left to be found. and breaking news tonight, live, the florida panhandle. a close-knit community reeling after a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom as her parents vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story now becoming more distorted. as we go to air, is there a break in the case? police, as we speak, combing a gray van for evidence. tonight, we want to know who took baby shannon.
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>> shocking revelations in the search for missing 7-month-old baby girl, shannon dedrick. two months prior to shannon going missing, the family baby-sitter alleges a pattern of abuse and begs the state for help. that baby-sitter faced allegations of abuse, herself. >> something is not fitting together with the story. this is a 7-month-old baby girl. she cannot walk. it's my understanding she cannot crawl, yet. >> another huge gap in the story is the fact the parents have not made any personal appeals. i really believe this story is going to be solved or this case will be solved close to home rather than far away from home. >> department of children and families releasing information on two investigations into shannon's parents, christine mercer and james dedrick. >> i think they are alleging foul play and seem to be pointing fingers directly at the parents. >> one investigation into drug use around the child. a second investigation over
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allegations members of the home shook baby shannon. both investigations result in no criminal charges. >> it's disturbing. i think there's serious questions about these parents and the fact they would be asleep until 3:00 a.m. until 11:00 does not make sense. >> the parents forced to complete counseling and take drug tests. as the search continues for baby shannon, many are asking, did this have to happen in the first place? good evening, i'm nancy grace, thank you for being with us. breaking news tonight, live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted sex offender accused of yet another sex attack. inside his tele-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home, even stuffed in the crawl spaces. bombshell tonight -- as the excavation goes on in and around the home, a former marine,
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anthony sowell, the body count of murdered women rises. >> it's 11 victims. there were six inside the house and five recovered from the yard. seven ligature strangulations, one manual strangulation, two that are going to be homicidal violence, and then one the autopsy is going on. >> breaking news, we now have 11 bodies recovered at the home of anthony sowell. he was in court today. >> given the nature and gruesomeness of the allegations placed against you, the court believes you should be held without bond. >> i have to believe they will go back to the house tomorrow and dig a little deeper because of the skull. we need to find out where the rest of the body's at. >> body buried in the ground decomposed slower than the ones left in the air. we had two in the third floor
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out in the air. two bodies under dirt and we had five buried in the yard. so, they are all decomposing at different rates. they have the features of months to years of how long they've been down. >> the whole house, we are going bit by bit, piece by piece through the house, make sure we didn't miss anything. >> leaving no stone unturned? >> yes. yes. >> ripping things apart? >> yep. >> the excavation goes on. the police now set to tear down the walls to look in the walls starting in the morning. for those of you just joining us, cleveland suburb, the body count rises inside a three-story house of horrors. a former marine, anthony sowell lives there. in the last 24 hours, the body count goes up to 11 murdered women. out to dan haggerty, standing out in front of the home, he's joining us from wews. dan haggerty, 11 dead murdered women. so far.
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what are the cops' plans? what more is there to investigate? i understand they have yet to tear the walls down? >> yeah, they said they plan to dig a little diaper. that may be an understatement. they are working on getting a warrant to go in tomorrow morning with the fire department and they are literally going to rip the home apart. they are going to tear down the walls and check every inch and make sure nothing else is inside the house and there's no more evidence and for sure no more bodies. >> hold on. they have to get an additional warrant in order to tear the walls down? >> yeah, that's what we hear. we hear they had to have a different type of search warrant to go in there and demoll inparts of the home to tear down the walls and search inside the actual structure of the house. >> dan haggerty outside the home with wews. dan haggerty, i understand they can confirm eight of the women died by strangulation, seven of
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them by ligature, for instance, with a rope or pair of stockings. one by manual strangulation. is it true that the ligatures were still around the necks of the dead women? >> right. it wasn't hard for the coroner to figure that one out. that's how they knew that the suspect here, possibly anthony sowell, used either a cord or rope to strangle his victims. when they found these decomposed bodies, the ones they knew had been strangled in that way still had that rope or cord around their neck. >> to ken robinson joining us from wtam 1100 a.m. news radio, also joining us from front of sowell's home. ken robinson, what more can you tell me? are people still gathering in front of the home? this is day three, wondering every time they bring a gurney out with a body on it, is that my mother, is that my sister, is that my daughter under that
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sheet? >> that's absolutely correct. people have been here since day one, waiting on the coroner, waiting in front of the house, looking, watching, wondering what's going to happen next. this series of crimes rocked the neighborhood. there's a gamut of emotions flowing through the neighborhood from anguish, people wondering why the police didn't find out something was going on here earlier. people wondering, are they safe? some lost confidence in the police. i had one gentleman telling me he's thinking about starting his own patrol through the neighborhood because he lost confidence in the police department. >> i want to go to a special guest joining me right now. everyone, we are taking your calls live. with me right now is the daughter of the one woman who has been identified so far, the mother of three. she had two girls and one boy. with me is danita carmichael, the daughter of tonia carmichael.
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ms. carmichael, thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me on, me and my family. >> we are showing some absolutely beautiful shots of your mom. we've got her at a barbecue, in front of a little gambling slot machine. there she is wearing a baseball cap. there she is dressed in a santa claus outfit. she's got little hat on. there she is with her family. i just cannot imagine leaving lucy, my little girl and john david, my little boy, behind. to grow up in this world without a mother. tell me how you learned that your mother's body had been hidden in this home for a year? >> well, nancy, first of all,
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let me just thank you for putting this story out there. i was listening to the show as it got started and i was hearing the response you had given. it sounded like you were speaking from the family, a lot of the things you touched on as far as what's taking so long for the other families to find out the information, we had to find out today. it's still unbelievable. a search warrant, are you kidding me? you know, it's devastating enough that this murderous person was able to stay out on the streets and do this heinous act that he's done for so long without being detected. it's just very hard to believe. >> everyone you are seeing -- >> we are doing well. unfortunately the information she had to find out about her child is discomforting because she lost a child. i lost a mother. as well as my older sister and
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my younger brother. as you can see from the pictures, she had a beautiful smile, she was a beautiful person. she was a family-oriented person. she loved her family, she loved the holidays, she loved to horseback ride. she loved to make jokes and make her grandchildren smile. that's the legacy we're trying to make sure gets out there. the slot machines. she loved vegas. she loved going to the bahamas. those were the things for the ones who truly knew my mother.
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every night hln's nancy grace brings you the real drama straight from the courtroom. >> every lawyer has a different version of what justice is. >> tnt monsds "raising the bar" is all new. >> to me justice is a jury rendering a verdict that trusts the truth. >> do you trut them? that's what this case comes down to. >> steven bochco's "raising the bar" mondays on tnt and pick up nancy's new book "the eleventh victim" available now wherever books are sold. >> i don't think any of them
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have been there for less than a few weeks. but we have bodies in a third-floor attic. in the summer if there's no central air, it can get to be 90 or 100 degrees in a third-floor attic. plus 100 degrees plus. that will be accelerating the decomposition. bodies buried in the ground decompose eight times slower than a body left in air. so we had two in the third floor out in the air. we had two bodies under dirt and we had five buried in the yard. they are all decomposing at different rates. they have the features of months to years of how long they have been down. some look very old, years, not months. but it's very -- it's hard to tell. it's difficult. there's four or five different disposal situations with different characteristics. attic crawl space, open air in a room, cool basement, buried in earth.
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they are all going to decompose at different rates. internally, body size and infection at the time of death can alter decomposition as well. >> and the excavation goes on in the cleveland home, three-story home of former marine anthony sowell. the body count has risen. it's now at 11. and we learn, tonight, that sowell may be linked to other crimes on women in california. isn't it correct, dan haggerty, joining us from wews, that sowell was stationed with the marines, he was honorably discharged in north carolina and california. what can you tell me about the possibility he's connected to crimes in california? >> well, i don't know about the possibility of him being connected to those crimes. all we know right now is he did enlist in the marines, this is in 1978. he was 18 years old. he was a marine for eight years.
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he did serve in north carolina and california. we know he's being investigated right now as possibly connected to unsolved rapes there in those states. for now, especially in concord, california, doing investigations there to see if he's connected to any unsolved rapes there. for all that's all we know about that part of the investigation. >> stacey newman, our producer on the story, stacey, what more have we learned as we went to air tonight? >> just when you think it couldn't get more bizarre tonight, nancy, we have uncovered anthony sowell, he trolled a sex fetish website. was he using this to lure victims? we don't know. what i can tell you is weeks after his release from prison, he put up a profile wanting to dominate women using the sex fetish website. >> you are seeing the anthony sowell profile from a sex fetish website, alt.com, the one stacey
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newman is describing right now. stacey, are you telling me he did this just weeks after getting out of the pen on attempted rape? >> just weeks. and what we've also uncovered is, his last log in was at least about three months ago. >> we are taking your calls live. to barbara in maryland. hi, barbara. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: i just want to say that if only there were more people in the world like you, we'd be so much better off. and your twins are angels. my question was, why on earth wasn't anyone watching this monster when he was released from prison? >> to sergeant scott han, sheriff's officer, florida. sergeant, i've never seen -- actually, i have seen a few cases like this. he got sentenced to 15 years. he did the full 15. that's my understanding. that's extremely rare.
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they did not let this guy out, and he did all sorts of classes behind bars like cage your rage. they made him go through that. they made him go through anger management. clearly they knew he had a severe problem. >> absolutely. somebody who does the full 15 years, doesn't get paroled or out on probation and is kept that entire time, they are a dangerous person, they are not going to be rehabilitated and they had a responsibility to follow this person closely. >> what about it, pat brown? >> absolutely. i mean, this guy probably created a lot of crimes before he was 30 when he went in and we see he's created a lot of crimes when he came out. he's unrehabilitateable. absolutely.
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miss carmichael disappeared approximately a year ago in november. her car was located by family members and the investigation was ongoing, i believe, by lawrenceville heights police department. >> miss carmichael was the first one recovered from the backyard and she was a ligature strangulation. there was something around the neck. >> anthony sowell has been charged with five counts as of right now of aggravated murder, and, of course, that could possibly rise as investigators continue to go through these bodies. >> and the suspect, anthony sowell, in court just a couple of hours ago. he had on a paper outfit that
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they dress you in when they are afraid you may commit suicide. he's in a psych ward where they get special privileges. ken robinson with wtam 1100, why was he in court? >> he was in court to answer the charges. he was being arraigned in municipal court. agencies often do that to get the ball rolling. it's kind of like a preliminary deal. >> right. >> the charges are entered into municipal court. >> so he was in court answering up on charges. kirby clements, atlanta, alan rip ripka, new york. they're setting up an insanity defense already. they've got him dressed in a paper outfit. his lawyer is behind that. kirby clements, he's on a sex line trolling for victims as recently as three months ago. we can confirm.
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he's not crazy. >> he might be -- he still is crazy. he's got 11 bodies in his house. >> crazy like a fox. go ahead, ripka. tell me how he's crazy. >> first, you have to prove he did it. he could claim someone else did all this and he stood by. >> put ripka's face on the screen. you can smell the stench a block away. you're telling me he didn't know all the bodies were in his house? >> he may have known they were there. no one's proven he did this yet.
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six of them are described as african-american women and at least five of them appear to have been strangled. they were found in and around the house of 50-year-old anthony sowell. >> you could smell the dead bodies. >> there are a whole lot of people showing up in this neighborhood. dozens of missing women and their families and loved ones have been showing up here to figure out if their loved ones are one of the bodies inside the home. >> the likelihood there are victims in other places, missing people who were never recovered and no one knows their
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whereabouts is extremely high. >> i guarantee you if they go and look at california and north carolina where he was stationed with the marines there are going to be women there that have never been found, never been accounted for. >> we've obtained a warrant to get the dna from the suspect. we are in the process of entering it in the state and national database to see if we have hits relative to any activity to this particular suspect across our nation. >> this is exactly ten bodies in different stages of decomposition. how can you not investigate it better? >> the body count rising in the last 24 hours to 11 bodies. now, an additional search warrant has to be obtained for the police to start tearing down the walls. don't think that is so farfetched. if you recall the recent yale medical student, annie le, she was murdered, her body hidden in
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about a 24-inch space in the wall. before they can tear down the house of horrors, they have to go back to court and get another search warrant. it's why the wall excavation did not happen today. there is a crowd of mourners and onlookers standing beyond that yellow crime scene tape tonight. wondering each time a body is pulled out on a gurney, is that my mother, my sister, my daughter who's gone missing? we are taking your calls live. out to deb in michigan. hi, deb. >> caller: hi, nancy. i want to thank you for fighting for those who don't have a voice. >> thank you. >> caller: my question is, the serial killer, are they going to look at his past addresses to see if there are bodies there? >> to dan haggerty, wews, joining us there from front of sowell's home.
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i mean, i know he got out of the pen on attempted rape conviction. 15 years in the pen on that. did he move straight here to this location or was there a stop over in between? >> he moved here, in this neighborhood in this house in cleveland and he's lived here since after being released from prison. we've been saying, the coroner hasn't given us an exact date on when these women were killed but they said it could be years, months or weeks. some say the killings could have started when he moved here in 2005. >> back to you, stacey. what do you know about any link to california crimes? >> cops are looking into coronado, california. this is right near san diego. of course, this is where sowell was stationed. they're looking into a 1979 rape case there. i can also tell you there are reports that a woman in north carolina has come forward to say she believes she was raped by sowell sometime in the '70s. of course, cops have not been able to verify that. they are looking into that as well. >> i'm going to go to a special guest we have with us tonight.
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first of all, dr. lillian glass, psychologist joining us out of l.a., and of course, pat brown, criminal profiler and author. i want to remind you that also with us is the daughter of the only victim as of tonight that has been positively identified. lillian glass, pat brown, let's talk about it very briefly before i go to the victim's daughter. danita carmichael. first to you, lillian glass, i have three scenarios in mind. number one, he's acting out of rage and anger toward women. number two, after being convicted on rape, attempted rape and doing 15 years he decided to kill all of his future victims so there would be no evidence, no eyewitnesss, and, three, he has an insatiable desire to murder. those are my only three scenarios. do you have any other ideas, lillian glass? >> they are all correct and absolutely right.
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this is a man who's a misogynist. he hates women. he's methodical in how he's killing them. he's not leaving any evidence. >> hold on. rosie, i want to see the photos of tonia carmichael. she is a beautiful mother of three. she leaves behind two girls and a boy. her body, hidden in sowell's home for the past year. decomposing, along with the bodies of ten other women, that we know of. go ahead, lillian. >> no, you are absolutely correct. when you are looking at the pain that this family has to endure now, my heart goes out to the daughter and to all the relatives. because it's so difficult. >> to you, pat brown, theories on motive. not that the state needs motive,
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but -- you can't tell me this guy's crazy. don't start singing that same, tired song. he's trolling on the internet looking for victims, as recently as nine weeks ago. all right? he's not crazy. what about motive? >> nancy, you'll never hear the crazy word from me when it comes to serial killers. serial killers are psychopaths and want power and control. somewhere in their lives they've lost it. they want to get back to society and back to women. they like to put the blame somewhere. i would be curious as to what his behaviors were in the marines. even though he got the honorable discharge, oftentimes you get honorable discharge just to get you out of there. it will be interesting to see. he has got to have committed crimes at that time, he didn't jump up at 30 years old and decide to start raping and killing women. >> i think you may be right about that, pat brown. that's certainly -- veterans all over this country are shocked this guy is a former marine that served our country.
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i want to go to dr. kent harshbarger. medical examiner, forensic pathologist. dr. harshbarger, we know many of these bodies still had the ligature around the neck. that's a whole other psychological can of worms. all right? before i go there, how can they tell, with the other bodies, the mode of death? >> well, it's assumed from the scene, generally. if they can't find a cause of death because of the decomposition, it's going to be assumed homicidal violence -- >> i wondered what he meant by that. >> it means we can't tell. from the scenario, the circumstances around the death, there's no other explanation other than violence. >> dr. harshbarger, have you ever dealt with a forensic artist? a reconstructionist?
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i had to, unfortunately, as a prosecutor when bodies were so decomposed they could not be identified. so you could get a sketch, a composite sketch, of what you thought the victim looked like in life so as to identify her. have you ever dealt with one of those artists? >> yes, i have. it's rare nowadays because of dna analysis and other technologies. it is done. it's done by tissue thicknesses on the skull and make a clay model and make renderingings from that. it takes an artist, eye color, smile, shape of the nose, hair color. the artist is creating the look of this person. >> it's very, very difficult. it's a highly, highly specialized field. to danita carmichael, this is tonia carmichael's daughter. her mother's body has been positively identified as one of president 11 women in sowell's home. ms. carmichael, i didn't hear
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during our last interchange how you discovered your mother was one of sowell's alleged victims. >> the police actually came to my grandmother's home, my mom's mother's home and told us that there was a positive dna match. >> i'm just looking at these pictures of your mom. she has the most beautiful smile. danita, tell me something about her. what were her joys in life? what was she like? >> well, as you can see from the photographs, she had a gorgeous smile. thank you for the compliment on that. she loved her family. she loved holidays and vacation. she loved to cook and prepare meals, thanksgiving and christmas. she loved seafood. she loved trips to vegas.
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she just loved her family. >> she loved life. everyone, you are seeing shots of victim tonia carmichael. she's one of 11 that we know of, as the body count rises in that cleveland suburb. tonight's safety tips. women are easy targets, especially at night. how can you protect yourself? have a place it meet others if you become separated. never leave a drink unattended, it's so easy to slip something like dhp, the date rape drug in a drink. locate exits in case of emergency. locate exits in case of emergency and trust your instinct. if you don't feel safe for whatever reason, leave. for more information, go to nfpa.org.
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just two months before shannon went missing, the baby-sitter says she aletsed the governor of florida the baby may be in danger. the baby-sitter alleges shannon was being abused, shaken, and was around drugs and cigarettes. the baby-sitter faced abuse
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allegations in her past. >> 41-year-old james arthur baker and his wife susan, also 41, reported their 3-year-old son, paul, missing. a massive search for the boy turned up nothing. meanwhile james and susan baker moved out of south carolina and into rural washington county, florida. authorities were suspicious. washington county sheriff's investigators began watching the baker property closely. south carolina authorities received a tip the bakers had killed their son and dumped the body. >> law enforcement say they have a person of interest but still refuses to name them. where is 7-month-old baby shannon? >> straight out to allison walker with wmbb. allison, i understand as we go to air, police are searching a gray vn in connection with little shannon's disappearance. who owned the van? >> the sheriff's office and the florida department of law enforcement are not saying who owns the van.
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we do know they have it at the sheriff's office. they are looking for evidence not van. searching it thoroughly. neighbors have said that shannon -- or that susan baker does drive a gray van, but we do not have that confirmed. we don't know that for sure. >> clark goldband, susan baker would be the baby-sitter? >> yes, nancy. she is the baby-sitter. she's been there two months working with the family. susan baker the baby-sitter also sending an e-mail to the governor of florida charlie crist pleading with him a few weeks ago to save the child, saying the child is around an abusive household, the child has been shaken by her parents and also shannon has also inhaled drugs such as marijuana and smoke from cigarettes when instructed by staff at the hospital not to smoke around the child. >> the baby-sitter has problems of her own?
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>> she does. they stem back to 1987 when the sitter reported her stepson missing. he was 3 years old. went down for a nap. she says when she returned the child was gone. law enforcement -- >> wait a minute. when he returned from where? >> from the home. it's not exactly clear where she went. she says allegedly when she came back from the house the 3-year-old was gone. as investigators searched all out for the 3-year-old bay, they examined her 6-year-old stepdaughter and that stepdaughter had welts and broken bones so this sitter -- >> she becomes a baby-sitter in the home where little shannon disappears. that doesn't clear up the discrepepies is the parent's story. they say the baby is asleep in the room with them, they sleep until 11:30 in the morning. you know by that time, i've been up at least five hours. so they're sacked out 11:30 a.m. and then they find out the baby's missing? >> yes, yes, that's true. >> so they place themselves with
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the missing child at the time she disappears, correct, allison walker? >> that's correct. >> with us tonight, fay woods, the god mother of the missing child, shannon. miss wood, thank you for being with us. miss wood, what can you tell me about the home in which this little girl lived? >> i met them. they lived right across the road from where we reside at. i've been in the house several times without tell them i was coming. they had no notice. i would walk in, open up the door and i would go in and the baby was always fine. they never abused that child. that baby was healthy. the baby weighed 11 pounds. the baby was not no big 30-pound baby or anything. she weighed more than 11 pounds. she was a premie when she was born. >> i know how that is. because my daughter was born at two pounds.
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what can you tell me about possible marijuana and cigarette use around the baby? >> they cigarettes but the marijuana use, no, ma'am. >> cigarettes are bad enough, a known contributor to sudden infant death syndrome. marijuana is another animal all together. miss wood, for the longest time the parents' names were not even out there. they're not making any public pleas whatsoever. why did they want to keep their names secret? >> the only thing i can figure is they're doing what the sheriff of washington county asked them to do. >> kirby clements, alan ripka, this is a conundrum. you have the parents sacked out to 11:30 a.m. no baby sleeps until 11:30 a.m. it's -- no. that's not a statistic, that's just what i know. now you have this baby-sitter
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coming on to the scene. she's had a problem with a missing child way back home from where she came from. kirby, what about it? >> well, first of all, i think the baby-sitter is suspect number one. apparently when little children are around her they go missing. in this letter to the governor, who does this? she could call the sheriff, could have called the children and family services. she writes a letter to the governor. there's something wrong with that baby-sitter and something afoot with her. i think she's going to be your person. >> alan ripka, what about it? right now there are no named suspects. go ahead, ripka. >> there's no named suspects because they have no evidence against the baby-sitter or evidence against either one of the parents. >> you don't know that. >> if they did they would be a person of interest or potentially a suspect. >> no, no. as a matter of fact they may not want to name them yet. they may know who they're look at but hoping to give them enough rope to hang themselves. >> if you're thinking they want
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to follow -- >> jump up and say they don't have evidence, that's a bold-faced statement right there. >> if you think the police are thinking the parents or baby-si lead them to the child, that's the case. nothing has been said to lead us to that belief. >> you are seeing a shot of little shannon, 11 pounds and two feet tall. on a happy note, as we go to break, today marks one of the most wonderful days in my life. this time, two years ago, my twins louisy and john david and myself were in intensive care. today they turn 2. i truly believe your prayers were heard as they were lifted up. breaking news. prayer changes things. happy birthday lucy and john david. this is this morning at about 5:30 a.m. i made them cookies to go with their candle and in the other shot, those were paper crowns we made for them to wear today.
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>> i'm a.j. hammer. sandra bullock's battle with a porn star over a child. josh and fergie's nasty public fight with a stripper. nicholas cage shocker. is the movie star broke? >> this little baby allegedly taken out of her parents's bedroom while they slept, sacking out until 11:30 skpaim the baby never made a peep according to them; sharon. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. >> what's your question? >> caller: i heard again that the parents didn't make a
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personal plea for the children. i was wonder figure the local affiliate there made that available to them. >> let's out. this is new shots we obtained of little shannon. she is absolutely beautiful. to fay wood, the godmother of missing child shannon, what about it. news crews have approached the parents and offered them the opportunity to make a public plea. >> they have not. >> i find it hard to believe. have they approached the media themselves? miss wood? >> the sheriff's department finally offered a $10,000 ransom for the safe return of the child. >> that are would be a reward. $10,000, everyone.
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850-638-6111. pat brown, criminal profiler, what do you make of it. >> either the parents did something to the child because they wouldn't sleep until 11:00 unless the baby-sitter knew their habits and has a history, she knew their habits and had no reason to wake up because the baby never cried again. >> no parents, no baby-sitter and nobody has been named a person of interest or suspect in the case. let's stop and remember navy petty officer second class michael monsoor from garden grove, california, killed iraq. highly decorated and awarded the medal of honor and silver and bronze star and purple heard. loved body boarding and riding motorcycles and his corvette. leaves parents george and sale and brothers and sister.
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michael monsoor, american hero. our biggest thank you is to you for being with us. see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend. >> "showbiz tonight" news break. "showbiz tonight" at the top of the hour. a nasty dramatic fight with a porn star who used to be married to her husband. fergie versus the stripper. the claims that josh cheated on ferg we a stripper. that's your "showbiz tonight" news break.
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