tv C-SPAN Weekend CSPAN June 5, 2010 10:00am-2:00pm EDT
having a difficult time dealing with the pension and welfare benefit laws all the states of the union. it became almost impossible to do business. the thought was that if there was one federal standard, one federal law for pension and welfare benefits, this could ease commerce. that was the philosophical justification. host: marcia wagner has been and are desperate we appreciate your input. guest: thank you for having me. host: the president introduced his choice to be the director of national intelligence. that will be a rose garden ceremony live on c-span at 10:30 today. as far as tomorrow's program, we'll be joined at 7:45 by our guests to discuss how president obama has responded to the gulf oil spill.
a professor at widener law will discuss u.s. cities who may be filing for bankruptcy. and audubon society member will talk about how wildlife is being affected by the gulf oil spill. that program comes your way at 7:00 tomorrow. before we make our final exit, we have to say goodbye to a trusted colleague of ours. tricia has been a trusted colleague and a phone screener but a right hand person for our staff helping with responsibilities that make this response -- this program run. we wish her well as she takes on a new career.
ñsñs >> c-span, our public apfairs content is available on television, radio, and on line. and you can also connect with us on twitter, facebook, and you tube. >> hearing now on the future of the national park system. you will hear from several witnesses including the director of the national park services. this is about three hours, ten minutes. >> thank you very much.
let me call the committee to order. the hearing today is building on america's best idea. the next century of the national park system. i want to thank all the panelists that we're going to have with us today, and thank all of you for your attendance. and my colleagues for their attendance to what i believe is the first hearing in beginning to shape what our response is going to be as congress along with the national park system to the scrup coming cent tenal, which is a great achievement for the nation and also i believe a great opportunity to deal with some of the challenges that our park system is facing and will face in the future.
natural and historic objects and the wild life in the marks and to provide for the enjoyment of the same. in such a manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations. in just six years, we will celebrate the ten ten yl of the signing of this act and the hundredth anniversary is an important opportunity to review the agency's past and explore the possibility for the future. the challenges posed by managing a system which includes a burial site for african slaves in manhattan, a cold war missile silo in south dakota, the trails that brought european settlers to the fron tiers and other sites from
american sam wa to alaska are significant and continue to grow. our hearing today brings together a distinguished group of witnesses who will share with us their ideas regarding what lies ahead for our national parks. the last hundred years have set a course and built a tremendous foundation. but as we move into the second century, we are moving into a different world and our national parks and the park service will be tested as never before. i am pleased to welcome the director john jarvis to our hearing. your years of service to the national parks as a ranger, superintendent, and regional director are well known and greatly appreciated. and for those who do not know, director jarvis has been
serving as the incident commander down in the gulf for the last three weeks helping to coordinate the government's response to the oil spill. director jarvis, we realize how difficult it has -- it was for you to get away from those duties and we very mush preach your presence and the time you afforded us. the stewardship of this world-class national park system handed to us by truly visionary pine nears is a daunting task. we welcome our witnesses today to help us rise to that occasion and to meet that challenge. let me at this point welcome all of you and mr. jarvis, the time is yours, sir. >> thank you, sir for this
opportunity. i would like to sum rise in the time i have allot. on august 25, 1916, president wilson signed into law the national park service organic act which gave our parks a fund yamtal statement of purpose and created a body of dedicated professionals to care for them. since then, the park system has grown from an initial 36 parks monments and reservations to 392 units. from a handful of park wardance, our workforce has grown to 22,000. our annual visitation has grown from 350,000 to 285 million. so fs fitting that we consider the national park service for the next century. our core responsibilities will remain the stewardship and care of our national parks, service to our visitors, and attention to our community prograas. and i believe the national park service can become a more adaptive and inno sative organization to better respond to the challenges of the second
century. as director, my priorities are, one, to provide our employees with the resources they need to do their jobs. two, assure continued relevancey of our parks by connecting all americans to them. rededicate the service to the stewardship of our natural and cultural resources, and use education to help people understand and appreciate the complexities of the natural world and our history. my priorities dove tail very well with the recommendations of the national park second century commission led by former senators howard baker and bennett johns ton. over the course of 2008 and 2009, the commission gave serious conversation to what the park service needs to do and came up with four brood recommendations. -- broad recommendations. one, to advance a 21st century national park idea. two, strengthen stewardship of our nations resources and broaden citizen service. three, build an effective
responsive and accountable 21st century park service, and, four, ensure permanent sustainable fund forg the work of the service. i would like to just touch on a few of those recommendations under these broad categories. one suggestion of the commission is for congress to require the national park system to develop a national park system plan, which would identify natural and historic themes of the united states from which additions to the system are needed. it would also identify those places where the service can best play the role of partner, assisting the efforts of others. the plan would provide a strategic approach to building a coheesive, connected, and relevant system for the next century. the commission also recommends the service reduce the number of more than two dozen different park titles, currently used for units of the national park system. we feel strongly that a nomen clay tur with fewer titles would go a great way to making the public more aware of the national park system as a whole. the commission calls upon the
nps to invite all americans to have connections with parks. this ties directly to one of my four priorities, making sure that the parks remain relevant. our nation is undergoing tremendous demographic change, and if the parks are toe pipeline important, we must -- to remain important, we must include pieces of the american story. we must ensure that our programs are relevant, insightful, and of the highest quality so that we attract diverse audiences and can attract them. we also should hire employees who reflect our country's demographics. the national park service supports locally drien efforts to protect landscapes and protect our stories by means of national heritage programs. there are 49 such areas, by there is no clearly defined program. we support the recommendation of creating a system of national heritage areas.
the commission's report emphasizes the crentralt of education to the national park services mission and we agree completely. parks have a critical role to play in helping people understand and appreciate the complexities of the national rorled and the historic eents that shape our lifes. starting in the 1960s, congress gave the park service responsibility for a number of community assistance programs and the commission recommends that the service make full use of them and we agree. we will continue to assist communities in conserving rivers, preserving open space, and developing trails and green ways with states and local governments. we will continue to support historic preservation efforts throughout the country. the commission calls on congress to reauthorize the national park system advisory board, which has responsibility for national historic landmarks, natural landmarks, and trails. a longer extension of that
board would help action in pending landmark and trail proposals. the commission calls for substantial new efforts to support leadership development and we agree the park system must create a workplace that continues to attract the best and the brightest. we are scugs with the national park service how to pligs another recommendation creating a center for innovation where lessons can be shared quickly. this center is not a fizzskl place but we hope it will generate creative thinking at all levels. and, finally, the commission's report states there is a need for international engagement by the park service that has never been more urgent. we will continue to be called upon to work with foreign governments, other federal agencies, and other educational entities to for the development of other protected areas around the world. mr. chairman, that concludes my statement. i would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.
>> if you could give us an update on the gulf. >> i would be happy to. stationed in mobile, alabama, which is the mobile sector of the gulf response. my responsibilities are to serve with the u.s. coast guard, bp, e.p.a., and the state representatives for appropriate shoreline response and preparedness for the gulf oil spill. my area of responsibility stretch from the states of mississippi, alabama, and the
panhandle of florida. but i work in coordination with our other representative downs there. let me just say that the department of interior, the nation yam park service, the wild life service, princeably have been instrumental in preparing for this unprecedented oil spill in the gulf. one of our primary responsibilities is to get out in front of the oil spill and document the current conditions of wild life, of wetlands, of sea grass, of water quality, and others so that we can understand what the impacts will be when the oil makes shore. and we are deeply concerned, of course, about those impacts and it's essential that we get precondition assessments completed along the entire gulf coast. this is an unprecedented oil spill in that most of our incident responses were
designed to deal with essentially a tanker running aground, sort of a point and upon which a defined amount of oil. none of our systems were designed to deal with the response that is continuous in which an oil is continually pumped into the environment. and so particularly as large a scale as the gulf of mexico. we are reinventing the command system as we speak by engaging these multiple sectors, in deploying boom, in deploying sessles of opportunity to assist in boom deployment and collecting information. as you i'm sure know, all efforts at this point from the engineering standpoint are on the top kill which is, we are all hoping, will suspend the
flow to the guuf and then we will essentially have a defined end to this, as least in terms of the oil clean yufplt at this point we do not have a defined end and we are monitoring this extensively. let me say also the department of interior has been a significant contributor in the fields of science to better understand what this oil is doing both on the surface and subsurface, how it is breaking up subsurface, how the dis pursents may be playing also in the environment and the long-term effects both ecologically and economically and socially in the gulf. >> thank you very much. let me extend the thanks to the subcommittee for the work that the national park service and yours are ding -- are doing in that very troublesome to say the least crisis that's being
confronted. thank you for that. part of the recommendations, mr. director, have to do with education. and it's our understanding that you're planning to appoint a permanent senior mps manager to oversee educational initiatives. and maybe you could elaborate a little bit on that plan as well as the fact that there is some consensus that we're not on the cutting edge tech logically in order to be able to implement initiatives and outreach programs that are going to be vital to the education component. could you speak to both those points. >> yes, mr. chairman. i would be glad to. i have created the first associate director for education interpretation. it's a senior executive
position in washington that will lead the national park service in the field of education and interpretation. for many years, essentially from steven mather's time, we have had field nalt lists, interpreters as we call them, that provide great programs for the public and help explain the natural history and the cultural history of these extraordinary places that are in our stewardship. and over time, educational institutions such as the public schools have learned that these are great opportunities to, i mean, where better to learn about american history than to go to those places like getiesberg or the statue of liberty or any of these place whence you're talking about the experiences of all americans. and but we've never really formalized that relationship. we've helped build curriculum,
we do field trips. we are beginning to use technology in ways that we have never done before to bring kids from the classroom without necessarily physically transporting them and connecting them to our interpreters. what we need is high standards. we need evaluation just like any education institution to ensure that we are meeting education objectives that we're closely linked with testing and standards throughout the education institution. so having a senior position in the national park service that can work with the department of education, with schools to ensure that these institutions come together i think is essential. the use of technology to bring kids into the classroom, i mean, bring our interpreters into the classroom is essential to this. there are millions of kids out there using the internet to access park service information
, but we believe that there's opportunities to even go beyond that. we do a program called the elect ronic field trip which can reach up to 3 million kids from our parks to really get them engaged at a deeper level. there are some challenges with technology, with i.t. information technology security, ensuring that this sort of open framework that you have in the network and the internet really doesn't work in government very well. so we need partnerships with education institutions, with nonprofits, in order to make those kinds of linkages with technology to reach kids. >> thank you. what are the important tools that you feel are needed to increase diversety in m.p.s.,
both in the employee base and in the constituency visitor base? >> mr. chairman, i think we have a lot of existing tools within the national park system to reach diverse audiences. we just have never thought of them in terms of a strategic deployment. for instance, our community assistance programs, the rivers and trails conservation assistance program, the tax credit programs that we have for historic preservation are incredibly wonderful programs that help within communities to preserve their own history as well as their own river fonts and long distance trails. but we've never thought about it from a strategic deployment standpoint. the same things with the conservation fund which helps create and protect urban
parklands. and urban parks are a threshhold experience for so many families that may not have the transportation or the economic status to get out and see the big classic national parks. so these urban parks are essential. and we've proven this over and over again at places like golden gate, santa monica mountains, lowell, where we can engage individuals at the local level and perhaps attract and inspire them to explore the national park service and the national park system at a broader level. >> thank you very much. and if there's time for a second go, there will be additional questions. if not, mr. director, i will submit those in writing to you for response. let me now turn to ranking member of the full committee mr. hasting for any comments or questions he may have. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and once again, thanks for the
-- your courtesy of allowing me to be here. and director, i just want to be very parochial in my remarks to you and questions. and specifically, i want to talk about the b. reactor at hanford which is part of the manhattan park service unit. there are some concerns in terms of governing because it's on department of energy land. i recognize that. but undersecretary for e.m., environmental management in dough sent you a let -- d.o.e. sent you a letter and encouraged you to work with her. the b. reactor is a very unique piece of equipment, if you want to put it that way, because it helped us win the second world war and the cold war. and theffed tourists now the
last years, and these tours are sold out within hours, because going on the reservation has some security issues. so i am just simply saying i with the secretary on this issue because there are insurmountable. in the react yor specifically is extremely high not only in my area but in to work with her on that. >> i will do that. i will follow up. >> thaumping very much. >> thank you. and let me ask dr. cristsen for any questions or comments she may have. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as you may know, in my district look forward to becomeing a
part never. would the if that system is not in place, designated as national heritage areas because we anticipate introducing legislation for that probably nesketsd year. >> no. very logical process for new additions to the heritage area program to come into the system. >> this legislation pending, the designation, and if the system is not in place that would not necessarily preclude new national heritage areas? >> no. the current system, well, there really is no system right now
but there basically is new heritage areas come up through congress and proposed and created. what our concern has been is that they are sustainable. and that there is appropriate infrastructure in place and governance at the local level, that they will actually be successful. and that's all we were looking for, is to create that system. >> i wanted to ask some questions also about diverse if iing the not only the workforce but also the visitation. has there ever been any outreach historically black colleges and universities or other minority serving institutions either to bring employees in or specifically maybe to reach out to those institutions for that conservation core of students? i don't remember the exact name of it, but that work in the parks during the summers? >> yes, there has.
we've actually had a partnership with historically -- american black colleges. and the hispanic colleges as well for some time. and honestly, i think it's been with mixed success. and we are reevaluating that and to see how we can boost that program up to really attract young people to careers in this organization. >> and there was a hearing on a bill, h.r. 1612, the public lands service corps which of course seeks to help restore and preserve the parks while employing youth and promoting culture. do you think this could be helpful in helping to diverse if i the workforce? i think public lands corps are an essential component to connecting young people to the out of doors.
i am not familiar with the specific language in that. i don't think i was here for that testimony. i think i was in the gulf. but conceptually, absolutely. >> and on the community assistance, which is stressed throughout the next panel, there is a gateway community program. has that been working effectively? we've tried to employ some of the principles as i remember them in st. john where two thirds of the island is a national park. and while it's very helpful to the economy, it does create some friction. have gateway community efforts been successful, or do they also have to be taken another look at? >> i think that the gateways community programs has lost some emphasis in recent years and it is an area that i am very strongly interested in in
reemphasizing in the audience here is my deputy director for community assistance and communications mickey fern. mickey has worked in the urban parks for three to four decades systems and he brings to the national park service that kind of gateway community approach to parks. so we are very interested in building our program in terms of gateway relationships. i think it's been in the past my experience has been dependent upon the superintendent's interest at the local level and how much they reach out and engage the local communities in promotion, in tourism, in economics, in terms of lifestyle sustainability, all of those things. and i think that's really what the second century commission report in a way is all about, is reaching outside of the park boundries and working with
communities for mutual goals. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. bishop. >> thank you, mr. jarvis, for being here. i appreciate it. and i have a whole bunch of questions, hopefully there will be a few rounds to go through them. let me understand the report that you've all sent to us. was this funded by park service or by mpca or combination? >> the funding came from a private philanthropy organization, and it was facilitated through mpca. park service dizz not put any money into it. >> did they choose the commissioners who came up with the report or worked on the report? >> the individual commissioners were chosen by the executive director of that commission, lauren frazier, who is a retired mps, and in consultation with the national
park service. >> you did not pick the commissioners at all nor are you the chief funder. who actually put pen to paper? who wrote the report itself? >> the each -- there was the commissioners divided up individual sections and so there are individual commissioners that drafted significant components of the report and then there were consultants that were used as a part of that within each category. and i think the final writing, the final edditting or the final edditting was done by national geographic society and their professional editors, but the final content was predominantly written by mr. lauren frazier. >> ok. so it's not coming from your office. >> that's correct. >> and we'll talk about the pros in a minute. i don't know if you can use any more cue words possible in some of the documents that were used
here. but you've got a whole lot of hem that are in there. the inspector general has recently issued two report that is are highly criticized two different groups. one the nlcs and the other is the mms for failing to maintain an arms length relationship with special interest groups. with this report, you seem to be walking right into the face of that as dealing specifically with special inscripts to come up with a funding, with a report of all sorts of recommendations in this. do you see yourself having a difficult time aligning yourself with such a strong political idea logical group as this, especially in light of the criticisms of doing that exact same activity both within lcs and with mms? >> i can't speak to nlcs or mms. but in this particular case, i don't see the national park service aligning themselves with the organization that
produced the report. but, more so with the recommendations. i think the recommendations are the product of years of analysis of where the next century of the national park system should go. they're very consistent with the centennial report. >> so you don't think that arm's length requirement that was specifically recommended in lcs and million mms should apply in this situation? >> i think that's a different situation. >> doesn't apply? let me talk to you about a couple of things that are in here. you talked about the report says the annual operating deficit is 750 million. do you agree with with that assessment or do you support the current budget request? >> i support the administration's current budget. >> so do you have any problems with the documents saying it's 750 million operating deficit? >> there are great needs in the national park system for we have a large maintenance backlog and we have great
operating needs. but we are also in tough economic times. so i support the president's budget. >> i'm assuming that was a yes then. >> yes. >> ok. let me also talk about the core operations analysis. you asked that be discontinued last fall. but the comptroller said the core operations ensures that funds are spent in an efficient manner that a park request for funding is credible and that there are adequate funds and staff to preserve and protect the resources for which parks are responsible. in this report, it attempts to criticize efficiency that they said has been stifled by the trend to centralize government functions. doesn't eliminate the process exacerbate that problem? and taking steps away from efficiency into centralization? >> some offour programs are most efficient when they are centralized. and some of our programs are most efficient when they're decentralized. the core operation program
really was not a very good tool in making those determinations. >> i understand you were the only director of the region who didn't use that program. >> actually we did use it but we adjusted it from the way it was being deployed. >> i appreciate that. i am only on page two of a whole bunch of questions that i have here. we have a whole bunch of other people waiting in line. i will yield back and come back to you. >> mr. chairman, it's an honor to being a part of the committee. quickly, i want to jump into the importance of consultation as planning is put together the importance of making sure in getting your views of including constation with tribes of locally impacted people and beautiful places like new mexico, where i call home. there's been traditional uses
of the land that date back before the establishment of many of the federal agencies. and mr. jarvis, if you just talk about the important of that and the critical nature of making sure that a diverse group of people are put together. >> yes, sir. one ft things that i did just in the last couple of weeks is created a new assistant director for american indian relations and asked jer regard baker, who is 35 year career national park service employee but also native and is highly respected in first american communities around the country to serve exactly in that role to reach out to first americans early and work with elders in terms of traditional uses, traditional activities, within
nation nal park service areas. so i'm absolutely deeply committed to working very cooperatively with early consultation on all of these kinds of activity that is may or may not affect traditional activities within parklands. >> and, mr. chairman, that's something that i'm very interested in in making sure that as we look at broadening diversety, sometimes presoying access and maintaining historical cultural and traditional activities helps do that on its own by making sure that the communities are included and have the ability to go that. in engaging diverse audiences along the lines. i will close with this final question as to can you just briefly talk about the importance of relationships tweens concession nares and national park managers as we talk about the establishment to that competitive environment, recognizing in some areas where mps has not been able to gain the ownership of those interests be in areas outside of that if you can talk about
what we're doing. >> the role of our concession program is absolutely essential in providing quality visitor experiences around the system. they are 80 plus private businesses that operate from very large to small mom and pop operations. they produce over $1 billion gross. they provide a revenue stream into the national park system from franchise fees. but i view them as a prt anywhere. not just as a separate sort of private entity. they are an essential component of providing services to the public. and i think that they are doing a great deal of good work in terms of the quality of their facilities. the sustainability of their facilities in terms of sort of the green footprint that we're seeing some of our
concessioners really step up and do great things because we need to be sort of the standard bearer in that regard. as always, you know, they are contractual concession relationships that we struggle with at times and we have a large backlog in dealing with some of that. but nevertheless, they're a great partner. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back the balance of my time. >> ms. lums, any questions or comments? >> thank you mr. chairman. director jarvis, i note that the commission has talked a lot about education and about connecting people to the parks. but i don't see a real commitment to the widest possible access to the parks. and access is a big issue in my state of wyoming where we're proud to have the first national park, first national monument in the country and of course grand tee ton and just great national treasures. and ept to make sure that
people have access to our parks. access was not one of the top four priorities on the top four priorities list. so how would you characterize the park service's commitment to ensure that every american has access to the parks? >> i think, well, one of the keys to access to our national park system is our partnership with the federal highways administration and recently we also achieved 170 million dollars in the recovery act to provide for road improvements, to provide safe and quality experiences in terms of road access to the national parks. we also recently entered into an agreement with the international mountain biking association to provide opportunities for mountain biking in our national parks as well. so and then also built in with our recovery act as well as our
line item constructiin program and repair rehab program, significant investment in our trail system thrussout the parks as well as significant investment in improvements in overall accessibility, meeting not only the letter but the intent of the americans disabilities act to ensure that we have access for all americans. >> thank you. question about your strategic plan idea. i notice that the park service supports creation of a strategic plan. and i think strategic plans are great. but my concern is that they should consider the desires and needs of local communities. so who do you envision would undertake the development of the plan? and then, i'm interested in also in what role you think gateway communities should have in developing the plan.
>> the development of a national park system plan i believe is inherently a national park service responsibility. it is not something to be handed off to anyone else. and we have built over years i think a very good dapeability of working with communities and taking community input. this is not something that we should or could ever do without active engagement with the american public both at the national scale but probably more important at the local scale working with communities to hear what they have to say, what is important to them that should be protected that helps preserve their economy, their local life ways, their history. i think those are an essential component of any type of strategic approach. >> well, and i would comment on that. i have a bill to ask you to
look at the heart mountain in wyoming possible designation. this was a bottoms up effort. this came from a community that wanted to preserve the history of the internment camps during world war ii that held so many japanese americans and how that history should be recognized and what a great example that is. i don't know that if you're doing strategic planning without those kinds of grass roots organic efforts that you would even know that those types of facilities have been preserved so well by local community organizations that now want to work with the park service to have those units considered. so as -- i understand your desire to develop a strategic plan through the national park service, but i would also encourage you to find ways to
engage in some of these grass roots efforts to i have possible units that you may not even be aware of have the kind of local support that heart mountain does. another quick question, mr. chairman. how does the designation of a national heritage area differ from other national park units? and if you establish a uniform process, is your goal to ensure that heritage areas are not federally owned? and thank you, mr. chairman. >> the difference right now is that national heritage areas are established by an act of congress without any study or recommendation by the national park service of whether or not they're sustainable. the concept behind the heritage areas is that there is no federal ownership, and that any federal investment is only over a term. and then it's to end.
>> we're going to leave this program now to go to the rose garden where president obama is expected to nominate retired air force lieutenant general james carper as his next director of national intelligence. we're look at now. this is live coverage. >> i also depend on the best available intelligence for daily decisions that i make every day. in particular, i depend on the director of national intelligence. as d.n.i., dennis blare continued the extraordinary service that defined his entire career. during his tenure, our intelligence community became more integrated and agile. and i will always be grateful to denny for his sense of purpose and his sense of service. today, i am proud to announce + my choice for the next director of national intelligence, james clapper. with four decades to service to america, jim is one of our nation's most experience and most respected intelligence
individuals. as undersecretary for defense, he has successfully underseen the military and person nel and budget that make up the bulk of our 16 agency intelligence communities. he has improved information sharing, increased intelligence support to our troops in afghanistan and iraq, uphe would civil liberties, and he played a key rolled in our effort to update and reorient our intelligence community to meet the threats of our time. as director of two critical organizations, the national geosparblee intelligence agency and the defense intelligence agency, and during a distinguished career in the air force, jim developed an intimate understanding of our human and technical collection programs. he po sayses a quality that i value in all my advisers, a willinnness to tell leaders what we need to know even if it's not what we want to hear. and jim is a forceful champion of his fellow intelligence professionals.
never forgetting what it was like to risk his own life during two combat tours during the vietnam war. he will be my principle intelligence adviser and the leader of our intelligence community. our intelligence community has made great strides since the 9/11 attacks. guided by good nks we struck major blows to al qaeda and we disrupted many plots and sade many american lives. but as we saw with the failed attack over detroit we need to do better. that's why i ordered a series of reforms to strengthen intelligence earlier this year and that's why i'll be looking to jim to ensure that we have the most capable and efficient intelligence community possible. intelligence must be collected and analyzed quickly. it must be shared and integrated effectively and it must be acted upon desice illinois. that's what i expect as president and that's what our
national security commands. in short our intelligence community needs to work as one team that produces quality, timely, and accurate intelligence. and let's be honest, this is a tough task. but this will be jim's core mission. he is qualified and he has my complete confidence and support. jim also understands the importance of working with our partners in congress as he has said not merely to appear when summoned, but to keep congress informed and to seek members' advice and consent. not surprisingly, the senate has voted to confirm him for senior positions on four separate times and it has done so overwhelmingly. -pjim's unique experience, i ur the senate to do so again and as swiftly as possible. i've spoken with the senate leaders and expect this nomination to be completed during this work period. this nomination can't fall victim to the usual washington politics. and as we go forward, my administration will continue to work with congress to ensure
that jim and all our intelligence professionals have the authorities, resources, and support that they need to succeed. finally, let me say to the men and women across our intelligence community, most americans may never see your work but every american is safer because of your service and we are profoundly grateful. you have chosen to serve america, now it's america's duty to back you up so you can fulfill the mission that we ask of you and keep this country safe. that's my promise to you as president of united states, and that's what jip will do as director of national intelligence. so, jim, to you and your family who joins us here today, thank you for taking on this critical assignment. and i invite jim to say a few words. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. president. i am humbled, honored, and daunted by the magnitude of responsibilities of the positions of dni. it's a job that cannot be done without your support and that
of the congress. and i intend to earn that support from both as well as the public if i'm confirmed for this position. we have the largest, most capable intelligence enterprise on the planet and it is the solemn, sacred trust of the dni to make that enterprise work. with that, nominees are like my two grandkids whose are here today having a life experience better seen than heard. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> [inaudible] >> why are there still problems integrating intelligence, sir? >> and you just heard the announcement of president obama naming retired general to become the next director of national intelligence.
we'll go now live for an update on the gulf oil spill. that is to the national incident commander in alabama talking about the recent developments of the last 24 hours and also what is going on in local communities. so we'll listen in on that. >> there are two vessels, 74 from around dog river, 142 vessels from louisiana and 142 from home port marijuanas over in baldwin -- mare 18s. we are using these to optimize local knowledge on the water with these folks know their expertise and their talent. the second thing i would like to talk about is our qualified community responder program. we have started this for the local communities in alabama, mississippi, and florida covered by the mobile incident command area. and what we're trying to do is find unemployed individuals that would like to seek training to get involved in
this response. the goal is to train over 4,000 people across these three states, about 1500 in alabama, mississippi, and florida. to date we have trained 2,070 individuals and they are ready to deploy. that is 898 in alabama, 1500 in mississippi and 344 in florida. to date there are another 1900 individuals scheduled for training. the types of tasks that we have these folks involved in include carrying and handling the materials and supplies, raking or shoveling debris, operating bob cats or power washers to clean rocks and beach areas, wiping or washing oil covered items and removing trash and other debris. safety is a primary concern so we make sure that these folks go through basic training not only for the task they're doing but for exposure to potential materials they'll come in contact with out there. the majority of the training for this area is actually done here at this site far beyond
the logistics site and the safety area for boom, this is actually a processing point and dispatch point for person nel. they can come in here, receive training get certifications and be deployed elsewhere. in general, the operation here at theodore is one of the best i've encountered and i want to commend everybody here for the job they're doing and the way that the contractors, subcontractors and local community have come together to help us optimize this response for the folks in alabama. with that, i will be glad to take any questions. >> what's your plan with the governor today? the governor is not happy. he says you basically promised this wouldn't happen. what's going on? >> well, i'm here to take a look at this operation. i'm going to do an overflight to see the areas we're booming and scheduled to meet with the governor today. we're going to talk about whatever issues he has and that's at the direction of the
president. >> that's here this afternoon? >> no specifics yes but i will meet with the governor. and it's based on the conversation that he and i had with the president yesterday. >> one thing the governor has wanted to boom the beaches. is that possible? >> you can't boom the beaches. there's only the tension between what we're going to boom and what areas to protect. in general, going into this response the state identified some areas that need to be protected and these are the islands and marshland back in the bay where you have jufenile water life that grows and becomes mature there. if you boom a beach you can do that. the hardest play to pick up oil is in a marsh or wetland, the easiest place is from a sandy beach because you merely remove it and take it to a certified dump and treat it as oily waste. but it's much easier to recover
and remove the best thing is do it on the water. but if you have to deal with it on a land, a beach is easier to deal with than a marshland. >> [inaudible] they have improved -- after a week of test. >> i'm not sure what the question is but i'll give you a summary. there have been some reports of underwater oil plumes. the administrator of noaa has put together a large area sampleling plan to send vessels out and form a consort ym with the universities in the area to get data and test the higher carbons in the water column. that's being done right now including operating within a five-and ten-mile radius around the oil platforms and the place where the recovery is going on. those are starting to return to port. there are others going out. sometime in the near future
they're going to put together a profile based on the data so we can understand what the picture looks like for the gulf area and relation to what kind of carbons are present and then come up with a general model of what's going on in the gulf. >> any more questions? >> does the cap seem to be working? is it doing what it's intended to do so far? >> yes. with a couple of caveyats. when we put the cap down, there were four vents on the cap that allow oil to escape that's not going up through the pipe. what you want is to keep the oil in the containment cap and not let water in. because when water gets in you form hydrates. and what they're doing is increasing production up the well bore to the ship on taup, and producing oil that will be shipped to shore just like it would any other production capacity. they want to raise that up to the maximum extent possible on
a daily rate basis and then slowly start turning off those vents where the oil is coming out of when they're sure they don't have sea water coming in. ultimately, because we don't have a perfect cap on top of it, there is a rubber seal that connects the containment cap to the marine -- the riser pipe because we didn't get a smooth cut with the diamond wire cut we had to use the less elegant sheers and a s a bit jag ed. so when we go to full production, we can't accome date all the pressure through the production line going up and we're going to have to get to a full rate production in that pipe before we know the exact steady state for any kind of leakage we may see around that rubber gasket. to combat that we have 18 f installed equipment where we can use undersea dispersnt and try not to deal with as much on the surface. in the meantime, we'll use mechanical skimming and trying
to limit if at all possible any dispersnt application on the surface because we used so much up there. and as you know, we've reached the million gallon threshhold. there's some public concern over the implication of this. it's preferable to use this rather than have the oil because the tosmisty is much less but we are mindful there is some toxic impacts and we're trying to focus on the subsea area where the ile is coming out. >> the government has said president obama has ordered the coast guard to give alabama anything it needs. will you get everything alabama needs? is there enough boom? >> i'm here today getting a complete brief, on the booms, the people, i will meet with the governor and get the answer. >> that's where you'll come up with the plan? >> yes. >> questions from the phone line operator?
>> [inaudible] >> your first question. >> repeat your question, please. >> i'm doing this by handset because it's garbled. the gentleman asked about once we understand the full production rate and what is being discharged out not being recovered, will we make that public. the answer is of course we'll make it public. we've got a flow rate technical group that i established that came up with the estimate as you know a while back that said there are two models that show us that that well was leaking
between 12 and 19,000 barrels a day or 12 and 25,000 a day. we're going to, once we stab thrish this, is go back and understand the royal that was released -- the oil that was released, and make an emat of the oil lost during that period of time and make that available to the public and will be completely transparent. . .
>> let me correct you. it was 6,000 barrels yesterday. they are increasing the production rate. the overall goal is to meet maximum production. we are going to slowly close off of valves. that will happen based on conditions present on the flow rates. it is going to be based on the conditions that we are able to achieve with the production rate. next question. >> i am from associated press. what sort of conditions do you need to see before you start closing off those events? >> what we want to do is take as much pressure coming from the
well bore as possible. once we optimize that pressure, there is a small chance that the oil will go down and out those rubber seals. they are going to try and get this right. they do not want to introduce any factors that are going to interfere with that seal. there need to be conditions based oo the flow rate that they can achieve. they want to take as much pressure out of that pipe as they can. next question. >> what is the worst-case scenario at this point?
>> the question is what is the worst-case scenario. obviously, the worst-case scenario is that you do not contain flow. the only way we are going to stop this well is by drilling really low. flow. once they intercept the well, the goal is to pump oil down the well to reduce the pressure so that they can put a cement plug in. you heard about the top kill procedure last week. i would call this the bottom kille. we need to optimize our containment efforts, which are going on right now with the containment cap. the worse case i can see right now is that the discharge goes forward until we have the relief
wells drilled, which will be sometime in early august. >> i am from the "times." if you look at the low estimated rate -- it seems like it is more than you said yesterday. >> what i said earlier was that after the initial production was established, they were able to capture 1,000 barrels. they tend to measure their production from a midnight to midnight.
from midnight the night before until midnight last night, they were able to produce 6,000 barrels. they start out at a low rate and go to a high rate. the capacity of that rig is 15,000 barrels a day. we are going to push it to the limits that we can. that is what they are trying to do at this time. thank you. >> bp has provided twice daily updates on the containment effort. you will be getting that from them in the morning. >> thank you, folks. >> you just heard admiral thad allen giving an update on the gulf oil spill. he is the national incident ep horizon or the depot ris
oil spill. >> we are not interested -- we think the program is great. it is locally driven and locally sustainable. we have seen some experience in the 40 that are there that have struggled to be successful. in order to commit a program that is different, we need to know how that structure will go forward. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman.
as you know, we have had our discussion. i am from the fifth district of massachusetts. i am privileged to represent to historic national parks. one part represents the beginning of the american revolution. the lower park was created in 1978. it has had a remarkable impact on the city. as you might know, it is the city that, when the textile industry began to decline, we went into steep decline. it was only when the national park came in there and decided to protect the national legacy for the city, that federal funding spawned increased funding and growth in the non- profit sector.
now there is very significant private sector investment. this is a park that is part of the city. in a sense, it serves some of the purposes of national parks. it is very much integrated into the everyday life of our citizens. we are a very diverse community. just by living in the city, you get to experience a national park. on many fronts, it has been very important. my question really s, given the importance of an urban historic park, what are the plans for continued funding? do you see it as a model going forward. ?
>> thank you for that question. i had the opportunity the -- to visit lowell. i fell in love with what has occurred in that city in partnership with the private sector and the national park service. i think that it is absolutely a model of how a city that was struggling economically, the investment of the national park service came in and restore national pride and invested economically in the city. it has turned things around. there is no way you could have done it alone. in each of these cases -- lowell is a great example -- there are models of the agency
bringing something to the table and restoring a piece of history and integrating it. we saw that in lowells. . it stands up there with the top few in the country. it is totally integrated into the city. we are testing these models. in richmond, california, we are integrating with the city. >> it is important to remember as you pursue this as a model the ways in which the national park represents the federal government. it plays a role and insights expanded investment in the state and local government.
it is a multiplier of defect. investment resources. urban contexts lend themselves to that. i do think there is a model there that is worth encouraging. another question, this is a little more down in the weeds. in recent years, the park has begun to centralize many functions. what were your goals in doing this? the effect these changes are having? >> mary good question. there are times when
consolidation of offices makes a lot of sense. i tried to get as much efficiency as i can possibly ing out of consolidation of offices, consolidation of programs. we are also evaluating those against service to the public and service to the resources as well. in the pacific where i was a regional director for seven years, we found some great synergies in the consolidation of certain functions, such as contacting. they were virtually consolidated rather than physically consolidated. individuals could work for a central office but beat field located. we are testing a variety of
models throughout the system against evaluation criteria to make sure they are effective as well. at times, there is the perception that perhaps services will be reduced. the reality is that services will be enhanced by this process. we need to work with our constituents to ensure that they are getting the services they expect. >> you are reaching back to the superintendent's to get a feel about how these changes are working to abo? >> yes. >> thank you for being here, director. with regard to the area under your supervision in arizona,
that is considered wilderness area, correct your a? >> yes. >> because it is wilderness area, border patrol vehicles are not allowed in there, correct? >> sometimes that is correct. >> but for normal control, ensuring that our border is observed since we know that terrorist want to -- terrorists to come in and destroy our way of life, when are those times that people can come in to patrol those borders? >> i had an opportunity to go
down there and spend time with the border patrol. i know that has been a significant concern. it is a concern of mine as well. >> only for those of us worried about people who want to blow us up. >> i am concerned about that as well. the border patrol has a right to use those vehicles when they believe there are exigent circumstances. >> in order to make those decisions about president circumstances, they need to be in areas where -- to make those decisions about whether those circumstances exist, they need to be in an area to see if those circumstances exist. there are people who say we have got to protect those wilderness areas from vehicles coming in.
yet they do nothing about the roads going through their use by people illegally coming into the country. it seems that we are completely at cross purposes. we do not allow people in there that can preserve the integrity of our borders, but also to protect those wilderness areas from people streaming through their and destroying this amazing landscape. i am quite concerned because of the restrictions on the use of any kind of the coast -- any kind of vehicles. i understand that helicopters can go through there but they cannot land. since time is limited, i would urge you to please look at that more carefully and try to work out some agreement. what is happening is the utter
destruction of these wilderness areas. we have the mojave desert situation where there was a cross taken down. we have seen in the news that someone put up a replica because of the position that is so anti- god by the park service. not only does the park service seem to have a problem with the cross, but i have had world war two veterans appear -- world war ii veterans up here. they were grieving that a memorial would not mention god. there are all of these great old memorials who talk about our creator and god and provenance and have "praise be to god" on
top of the washington monument. they are complaining that new monument have hostility toward the mention of god. have you found anything out at all about the taking of that cross. was that the park service that took down the replica? >> i do not have any information. i would be glad to get back to you. i know we are treating the stealing of the cross as a crime. we are pursuing it from a law enforcement standpoint. >> what about taking down the replica? >> i do not know the exact situation on that. i would be glad to get back to you. >> you are treating it as the
crime, but you do not allow the replacement. it seems that the park service would be complacent in the effort of the thieves. i see that my time is up. i yield back. >> thank you, director, for your good work. my ill speak of it in min relationship to you and in your previous position. in a court agreement, whose responsibility of it to remove the deer on the island's? ? what has the park service done to ensure that the terms of the court order have been met?
>> we want to be sure that the animals are in their court ordered 25% reduction phase per year. we want to ensure that the actual numbers resulted in a 25% reduction. we also recommended that specific actions are taken to reduce the population as well. >> thank you. so the park service has been providing guidance? >> yes. >> thank you. i wanted to get that on the record. i also want to commend you on your service. last year, the park service used recovery funds to install solar panels installchannel -- to
install solar panels in channel island. are you committing to meeting deadlines regarding carbon neutrality? >> we are as close to meeting deadlines as we can be. the facilities that we manage and construct should be exemplary in terms of sustainability. we are building facilities that meet or exceed the very highest standards in sustainability. one visitor center is platinum. you not only can learn about the
volcano itself, you can also learn about of assist -- about the sustainability of the facility itself. they will not accept any project that does not meet legal standards. we are developing large solar arrays in national parks. we provided a very large solar array that produces about 65% of the power for the headquarters. we are looking for all of those kinds of opportunities. the big challenge for us is construction. we are working with the national trust to develop standards for sustainability. >> thank you very much. as you know, the channel islands national park is
finishing up. one of its goals is to continue what it is doing with the national marine sanctuary. my question has to do -- it has something to do with what you have already been about -- what are you doing with respect to the sanctuary? are some other areas you want to highlight in this region or some other regions of this kind of synergy that can come between federal agencies in the the affect of goals
that are shared? >> the channel islands is a perfect example of that kind of collaboration over a system. the relationship we have there with noah and the sanctuary system is a great model. the state of california has been a great partner there as well, in terms of the protection and monitoring of the marine sanctuary and the forests around the channel islands. there are other examples where we were very cooperative leak which managers. on the island of maui, we are working very cooperatively with the state in protection and to control the expansion of exotic species, for example an exotic tree.
there are other great examples . in the dakotas, we are working closely with the tribe and the state. there are a number of those kinds of examples. i really think that is the future, working collaboratively. >> that you very much. i yield back, mr. chairman. >> welcome, director, and thank you for taking time to talk with me and listen patiently to might session with forkt mchenry. we are working hard to get ready for the bicentennial celebration coming up in 2012. on the issue of the maintenance
backlog, i imagine that, given the size of it, he must have some kind of triage approach to it. i was wondering if you could describe that a little bit. does it consist of triaging at each national park side, what gets done and what does not get done? were there decisions made? were there certain sites where you wanted to make sure the ?acklog got addressed the how you manage what is a large number of choices with regard to the back lot? g? >> we made a quantitative
analysis of our backlog. we ranked where they fit. critical systems versus nice to have on a very quantitative scale. we evaluated what it would take to get them up to a certain condition. this was done at the park level, the regional level, and the national level. we are in the process of producing part asset management plans. this is a ranking of condition and asset priority for the entire national park system. there are developed at the park level and they are rolled up into a larger system. we are looking at where the critical systems like waste water, water treatment, roads --
the poor components to keep parks functional. we are looking at other assets that fall at the lower end of the chart. there are some things that we need to get rid of. we are focusing also on removal of facilities or replacement of those facilities that would eliminate some of our backlog. i am and analytical person. i find this kind of interesting. we are trying to figure out where the investment of our dollars should be. we have the capability of focusing in a triage way on our most critical assets. >> i think i mentioned to you my interest in environmental education. i author something called "no
child left inside" act. we have a lot of people part of a coalition to support that. you mentioned the new position of associate director. i imagine that would be the point person or contact person for our effort in "no child left inside." >> thank you, mr. chairman. a queue, director, for your time this morning. i want to deal with the expiration of memorandum as far as international park units are
concerned and what is happening there. i have also believed -- i have always believed that our national treasures are the national parks and the library of congress. i know we have a wonderful program as far as helping other countries establish their own park system. one of the best things that my wife and i decided to do was deciding during the break that we were going to take them back packing. it was a wonderful opportunity. we have a nature deficit with the younger generation. it is something we should all be concerned about. they are being stimulate it differently from what you and i
got when we were that age. we mentioned the technology programs used to connect our kids and get them excited. we should get our children more interested in the park service by using the technology they seem to be addicted to today. the one issue i want you to address is in regards to park personnel. we are concerned about some of showing the low level of morale. why is that and what steps are being taken to turn that around? >> we are concerned about the survey work done by the "best places to work." there were a number of factors
regarding national park service employees that raise concern. we have formed a workplace committee and staff it to began take a deeper dive into the organization to learn what these issues are. we want to invest in fixing those kinds of things. one of the commissioners was an organizational consultant and author on these kinds of issues. she has offered her assistance to the national park service to help us better understand these issues. the issues are complex with the national park service. most employees love their jobs. they love what they do.
they dedicate way beyond the normal pay hours. they travel to parks on their days off. many of them are back in the park on their days off. it is a way of life as it was with me. i have been in the service for 34 years. they also have high aspirations for the agency. to a certain degree, the second century commission report calls upon those high aspirations. they want the park system to achieve these broader goals. they felt that for a while, we had not been achieving that for a variety of reasons. >> do you think it is the aspiration of objectives regarding salary, a leading conditions, working conditions, and things of that nature? >> it is a mix. i recently saw some of the worst
part housing i have ever seen in my life and appalling living conditions for our employees. we are working on trying to fix that. they tend not to complain about these things and do just go forward anyway. it is a combination of aspirational and local issues. >> you are in contact with a lot of park personnel throughout the years. they are helpful with the people visiting. anything that we can do as far as turning those surveys around, we would be interested in engaging you on. hopefully, we will have an opportunity to follow up on youth programs targeting the children of our country. and getting them excited about being out doors again.
thank you again, director. >> i would be happy to talk to you about that. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think most of the points have been covered. i have a few of my own that will be dovetailing into questions regarding your work force. , dovetailing to the minorities that might be interested in making the park service a future job or career, if you will. have you or are you or will you be of reaching two members of congress in the areas where you know you have a high concentration of minorities. they could be asian, they could
be hispanic, they could be african american. in california, the state government has allowed cable to have to access lines for every city in california. public access and government access. they would be able to run any psa you have to promote going to the parks. if you were going to reach the local community colleges to provide job-training at community colleges in those areas, you would be able to put on classes for the diverse things that you would handle, including the possibility of future jobs. they do it for law enforcement, they do it for firemen.
why not for the park service? those of us who are responsive to the works force, i know the salary and budget has been affected in the past decade. are you getting additional funding to be able to carry out all the things we talked about to enable the park service to deliver these things to the residents? that is a mouthful. >> that is ok. they are all good points. in california, at the university of california merced campus, which is the most the first of all of the uc systems, we have a very specific program in terms of outreach to the community. it is foccs predominantly in the
central valley. we actually have been formed national park service employees on the campus working in the student center who not only planned trips into yosemite or other parks, but also recruits for seasonal positions in the park. >> may i interrupt you because my time is limited? we take that as a program to begin to transfer to los angeles? los angeles county is 12 million people. it is a beautiful area. my county, like i said, has 12 the city is 4 million people. we need to be able to do a little more in the areas where we have more people to attract
the people who will take their families to the parks. >> one of my goals is to take these programs that i know i successful and replicate them in places like los angeles. >> i would love to be able to be some kind of resource to you. we have done a lot through our ntain briel m conservatory. is this something that you can do without legislation? >> we can do it without legislation. >> the last question for the record is, working with parks on the border. , there is going to be a parliamentary meeting in julyy
it would be nice to have information because we will be talking to the senators and the members of their state legislature. the president is very interested in some of those things. there is a water aspect. we can, hopefully, dovetail some of that into the parks. if we cannot cover it during the session, we can provide information to follow up. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. i do not want to sound totally negative. but i will. that is my job. there are some things you are doing of which i am very proud, specifically for preservation. in the document that has been presented to us, there are many red flags. it is hard to fight your way
through it. for example, "the most serious threat to our parks comes from beyond their borders. " are you recommending buffer zones around national parks? >> know i am not. >> the prose has problematic concepts. , especially when you go to the next paragraph, where they go into an attack. the so-called "park scorecard." it's something i will go into. did you attend a meeting where
mentioned a scorecard? it is appropriate to develop a budget in private meeting, like that one on the 24, with an agenda driven by interest groups? >> what the center for park management is offering its consulting services to do analysis, not recommendations. they provide consulting services for us to do analysis of this. >> when you go back and check your records on february 24th at? ?
i think there was an effort to try to fix the record on that particular answer. i would appreciate it if he would check that and get back to me. let ask you one other thing about the treasured landscapes. there are e-mails that said you were involved in the treasured landscapes and developed certain proposals. where those proposals your own initiative or did they come from the secretary or the president's office? >> the secretary of the interior asked the national park service to propose to him how he would approach the treasured landscape the initiative. we had a number of meetings with the secretary at his request. >> so the proposals that came up, were they from your office or were they from the secretary or the white house?
>> i have no knowledge of anything from the white house. they were proposals from the secretary and from the national park service. >> what projects did you actually submit for the national treasured landscaped initiative -- treasured landscape initiative? >> there was a proposal that would look at broad schemes where potential new areas would be established to tell stories. >> were there others? >> those were the kinds of initiatives that we discussed. >> were there other initiatives? can you provide that to us? >> i am not in a position to provide that unless it is
approved to the solicitor's office. >> if the solicitor approves it, will you provide that information? >> were there resources discussed that would make us less dependent on foreign energy? >> i have no information. >> the treasured landscape initiative, which the solicitor says there is a process involved in that, the proposal did not come from the white house. it came from the department of the interior and your office. >> that would be correct. >> and you do or do not think that it would be appropriate for congress to see what those initiatives were? >> i am not in a position to
make that determination. >> if you were in that posiiion, would you think it were appropriate to provide congress with that information? >> i am in my position and i am not going to comment on what i would do if i were not in my position. >> congress should be a player in that particular area. mr. chairman, i have all whole bunch of other questions. you have got other people here who have questions. i do not want to be labor this point. i will be coming back with other questions on the score card concept. there is some verbiage in here with which i have some specific issues. i would love to say what is the priority of the park service. there is a line in there that says the idea was for entertainment.
now you have something in there saying that it is saving the planet. you in your testimony gave us four priorities. i cannot identify them outside of the bureaucratic language. i cannot say this is the priority of what the park service is about and what they intend to do and have those be specific and direct. i have some significant problems with the verbiage in this document. you attack agricultural interests in the united states in this particular document. it should not be there. it is not appropriate. i have questions about why you received $750 million from the stimulus, but you have only spent $92 million.
we have to come up with precise areas of how we move into heritage areas because that is different from when congress initiated that process. what i would like to do, mr. chairman, just so other people can have a chance to talk to you before the director submits those to the record, if i can get a response back to the questions before i submit them for the record --if i can do that, i would be more than happy to move this process along. there are areas in which i am pleased with what you have been done. there are areas in which i have significant concerns, especially at this document is point to be the one that guide us in the future. i think it would be good to talk at some other place in time.
-- place and time. >> thank you. i just want to deliver some good news. i was at the national monument in utah a couple of weekends ago. i saw a young man painting a sign. he was doing a great job on behalf of the national park system. i am an old painter. i appreciate good painting. the second bit of good news is that i was impressed with a little brochure that they hand out there. it had a section on what americans can do to deal with climate change, what you can do to reduce carbon emissions. that is a good thing that the park service is doing to give americans that information. hats off to the work you are doing there. but it is not fully working because we are losing a lot of
the ecosystems that the parks are responsible for because of climate change. here is one question. one national park is predicted not to have glaciers in the next century because of climate change. the national science foundation and a whole host of federal agencies believe it is called by him activity. the question is, when all of the glaciers are gone in glacier national park because we did not deal with our energy crisis, what are we going to call glacier national park? >> i hope it will still be glacier national park. it was the landscape there that was parked by glaciers. we may have to call its the park formally known as glacier. it is going to change.
of ways.iety there are cascading effect that caused a loss of the glaciers. and will result in a warm climate. the park is not alone in those changes we are seeing. as i stated in previous testimony for the chairman, climate change is going to be one of the greatest challenges the national park system faces. >> the glaciers are not just the eyes. they are the keystone of the entire system. my parents used to work on planting some of that vegetation. that is what he stole alpine medal -- keeps the whole alpine
area green. there is something we can do to keep the places pristine and healthy. my empathy for your position is that you are responsible for these treasured landscapes, but it is really the energy department and the interior department that is really responsible. we need to give them the tools to keep the national parks healthy. i hope that that will happen. i want to ask you about the national park service's threats from the oil spill. there are a number of areas that are in danger. can you describe what your situation is with the park service on protecting those areas right now? do you have any sort of emergency budget that you can
draw on to deal with those challenges to the park's right now or do you have an unlimited while to draw from from british petroleum? >> i am serving as a commander down there right now. there are seven units of the national park system that are interior to the gulf. there are also 33 national wildlife refuges that are in danger from the oil spill. our strategy is to deploy boom material. we have been deploying boom. planning the wetlands and estuaries and
sea grass beds that are on the back sides of the islands. we also have teams of biologists who document the pre- existing editions of all of the national parks in the gulf. frankly, we think that for the south florida parks, is predominantly going to be a tar ball event because the oil is weathering. we have been working very actively wicca bp chemists -- working very actively with the bp chemists. this particular oil is a low crude.
it weathers in the water, and result in tar balls. have teams in place to gather tar balls as they appear anywhere in the national park system. they go to the lab to determine their source. we can fingerprint them fairly closely to determine if the source is coming from that. we are pretty well prepared. we are doing this under the unified command. this is being paid for by bp. we do very extensive cost accounting in this process.
we are working very cooperatively with state control districts and other agencies. it is a huge challenge. we are not taking it laying down. you are taking the oil out of the pine and mulching it for capital. >> there are places where we can employ these resources. there are places where we can not. we are finding unique ways to do
it. there is a project where we are going to let things down on the central cell block. ultimately, we could probably never deploy enough alternative energy within the national parks to cover all of our energy demands. we are going to have to do that partnership with others. >> thank you, mr. chairman. just one follow up on your discussion of the students at merced. i would encourage you to incorporate native americans also into the discussion. of opportunities for young people. as i look at the wind river reservation and its proximity to yellowstone national park, we
there, we joined a group of fiffeds graders involved in a program with they adopt land. they learn about the water cycle, soil, insects and other concepts. notably, these were all children from the urban environment of los angeles, the majority of whom were being introduced for the first time to this national park. where as park visitors typically do not reflect our diversety, these students did. due to this positive and memorable experience, many of these children returned to introduce their parents and family members. thises a powerful example of the ability of education to engage future generations and inspire a connection to our national parks. education ranks among our nation's highest priorities.
the national parks offer an opportunity to engage in play space life long learning. just as the organic act established the framework needed to maintain the parks during the first century, education is the success of the parks. e they recommend it be at the forefront and congress establish a mandate education as a purpose of the parks. education is provided through the visitor experience, ranger-led interpretation, and academic roism. it is provided by the park service but by partners and volume tirs. students who participate in park educational programs show measurable improvement and achieve higher test scores, which help further the primary objective of enhancing the education of america. nature is an example of several partner organization which is has provided field science programs in national parks and
currently educates 40,000 middle school and high school children a year. as chair of the board of nature bridge and parent of a program alumnus, i can testify to the transformtive nature of these types of experiences. interestingly, four current park superintendents are alumni. to acknowledge that the seed of interest was planted at that early age. the park service must develop a pipeline creating a latter of learning including service learning that cap turs the imagination of young people. for the vast majority who will not pursue a career with the park serviss, the benefit to society with a sense of personal responsibility for the environment cannot be overstated. within the national park service, nodes of educational exist but involve inconsistently. education is also a powerful
tool to engage the broader american people, a public which is increasingly diverse and struggles at times to find a personal connection. we should recognize the vital role the park service in education and interpretation staff play in engaging this public. historically important stories have been missing from the chronical. which of our nations stories are told, how, and by whom are critical elements of making a visitor experience relevant. the old concept of a ranger as an authority who provides education for the public must be replaced with the ranger who facilitates with audiences and engages communities and partners to provide a relevant experience. finally, if we expect to maintain a vibrant system, it is critical for the national park service to create a system condeucive to workforce diversety. we see our national parks as the centerpiece of the 21st
century america. our recommendations are designed to advance the park idea, making it relevant for all americans for generations to come. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> i am a long time conservationist. i don't have the title as the rest of my colleagues do, but in that rich experience i have been chairman of the institute of eco system studies, chairman of the national outdoor leadership schools and many other wonderful organizations. and i did have the experience of serving on the second century commission as a volunteer conservationist and it was an extraordinary experience of working with 28 other commissioners from around the country many of whom did not have at the beginning of
this experience vast knowledge of the national park service. but we came together to assess national parks today and what the future holds and we concluded over a year-long deliberation with an exceptional unity of outlook that was i think part of the amaidsing transformation that took place amontgomery the commissioners. and we felt as a whole that not only are our national park's america's best idea, but they are positioned to be a leading force in meeting the 21st century challenges of accelerated loss of nature, public disengagement, and youthful disconnect. the committee that i am particularly representing was the science and natural resources committee. i served under the able leadership of dr. rita caldwell who was the chair and the former director of the national science foundation and current distinguished professor of the university of maryland.
the committee noted that our national parks are among america's favorite icons and, as such have the support of most of the people in the country. they are the translators of america's grat outdoors. they are the remaining bastions of biodiversety. but in the 21st century, it is clear that they alone cannot sustain our heritage. national parks are neither fully representative of our national natural systems nor are national parks isolated islands able to accomplish their mission of keeping resources unimpaired for future generations up against the modern pressures that abound today. the park service will need to grow in a manner in which they operate and work within a broader context. therefore, the science and natural resources committee recommends, one, that the president of the united states should establish a task force
including the national park service and other federal agencies involved in conservation, along with their state, local, and nonprofit partners to, a, map a national strategy for protecting america's natural heritage. and, b, to identify protection of the nation's natural assets as a common goal of all agencies while pursuing their respective agency agendas. two, parks cannot endure alone. the park service has a long history in reaching out and establishing partnerships as well as engaging the visitor, often being the environmental translater. it sets a high standard in the way it manages its resources. thus, it is uniquely qualified to offer technical assistance and council to a larger public. the committee recommends the creation of new legislation
moddled after the national historic pred vasion act of 1966 to enhance protection of national heritage values on nonfederal lands. suchhlegislation would provide leadership opportunities for the park service to provide technical assistance and coun sell and to encourage incentives for private land conservations. it is not intended to convey any new management or regulatory authority. and, finally, three, in recent decades the science around the national park service has been weakened. to realize its promise, the park service must be a trusted scientific authority. the committee advises science must be strengthened within the service to support a science-based foundation for building a 21st century system. the park service needs to build an internally directed research program, which takes advantage
of the data and its venue and which also makes eco system and speech ees restoration a hallmark of its applied science capability. to conclude, our nation's natural assets will only be secure if there is a coordinated, comprehensive, scientifically based approach to ensuring our natural heritage. and the park service, with its outstanding system of parks, is imminently qualified to take a leadership role this this critical endeavor. thank you for your time. >> let me introduce the honorable vick fazzyo for his comments. and thank you for being here, sir. >> thank you, chairman and ranking member, and members of the committee for putting the time in to hear the recommendations of this national park second century
commission. i want to begin by telling you what an incredibly capable, diverse, and talented group of people i had the privilege of serving with on this commission. you get a slice of that in the testimony of this panel and later on from additional testimony, from the gentleman who sits behind us, mr. jerry rogers, but it really was an incredibly capable and involved group of people who came from a variety of different perspectives and found that they had a common interest in the national parks and its further development. of course, much of our recommendation took the long view. we were not focused just on the next couple of fiscal years. we did look down the road and determine that for the national park service to be able to meet the mission that it was envisioned to have by this
commission, a good deal more funding would be required. and as a former appropriator here in the congress, i sat on the committee chaired by linda bill mast who is the professor of professional policy at the kennedy school at harvard and experienced. and our task was to look at what kind of infusion of new financial resources might be possible given the very obvious restraints of our current budget environment ongoing in this country for, i'm sure, at least a decade more, if not longer. our commitment was first and foremost to increasing operational funding. it is absolutely critical to implementing any number of significant recommendations of this panel that we have the adequate operational funding to have the resources, the personnel and the organizational capacity to meet the park service's mission.
to serve the public. to diverse if i the workforce as we have heard commented today, to conduct scientific research that is so needed in so many areas of the country. and, to protect the park resources, which we know are in many places under stress. the narbg national park service budget is less than one tenth of 1% of the federal budget. as you have already heard discussion, we have a 600 million shortfall in operating funding. our backlog for maintainingance is $9 billion, and there's no where near an amount adequate to deal with the potential acquisition of end holdings from willing sellers. the commission came to pretion the role that congress has played in recent years. two presidents as well have shown a willingness to attack
the operational shortfall of the park system. but we believe the congress must continue that effort and increase funding for the national park service by at least $100 million over the next six years beyond the fixed cost of inflation. that would allow us to work down this shortfall in a relatively short period of time. second, we think the land and water conservation fund has to be more adequately spent on issues related to the park service. as you know, less than half that money is now provided to the service. in addition, i think it's most important that we look down the road confronting these fiscal challenges to the creation of an endowment and a national campaign leading up to the centennial in 2016. as linda, our chairman, said, if we intend to protect the national parks 234 perptute,
basic fants tell us we must fund them as well. so we have talked about an endowment that could provide a perpetual stream, an opportunity to enable donors to provide for rangers purposes, including science and scholarship, education, specific park service projects, public private initiatives outside park boundries, that serve the broader mission, and other fillen thropic activity that we believe should supplement not replace appropriations. lastly, we think following along the initiative of former secretary, we need to build a national campaign for this next centennial, the park service. we have talked about engaging citizens from all walks of life, but we like to get the average citizen involved
directly through maybe the purchase of coins or stamps, to give average people to help just as much as those who have the resources in our society. so we are privileged to present these suggestions to you knowing full we will the difficulty of finding adequate funding going forward. thank you very much. >> thank you. mr. dennis gal v.i.n., former deputy director, national park service. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate the opportunity to testify before this committee on the second century of national parks. as it happens, i have testified before committee for 25 years going back to when chairman you'dal daws here and all his successors. and i appreciate the vital support this committee gives to national parks both in developing the growth of the system and in giving us policy direction for the park's management. we have built the best park
system in the world. each of us played many roles on the commission. my focus here today is to report our findings on the future shape of the national park system. in passing the organic act of august 25, 1916, the congress directed the national park service to adhere to thh highest standard of preservation in our system of public institutions to preserve, quote, unimpaired for future generations. ore examination of the -- dr our examination of the current system was character rised by the words corner stone and keystone. national parks are part of larger systems that put critical influences. to make the current and future systems work, they need to be embedded in a national conservation strategy. we recommended this and were heartened at the recent white house conference on americans outdoors. several commissioners were among the invitees. we look forward to the conferees continuing work. and there is an urgency to this
task. more than 1 million acres of open space are developed each year in this country. based on that rate, we are erasing a yellow stone every two years. by contrast, the national park system has grown by less than 100,000 acres in the last decade. we believe there is room for robust growth. national parks comprize less than 4% of the u.s., less than 2% of the lower 48. in our commission meetings we heard support for growth. future growth needs to be guided by a plan. the current system has many gaps. it tends toward high elevation and thin soils. it is not the system one would desunny to preserve biodiversety. existing parts could be capanded. grass lands are poorly represented. cultural additions should fill out the nation's story with
attention to gender, race, and diversety. however, even a strategically growing park system must be considered part of the larger landscape. we endorse heritage areas and cooperative approaches. citizens ask for help in restoring degraded areas. we propose ecological restoration areas. we envision an mps that is more than a land manager, it is a convener in cap list, a growing learning organization. a larger vision is a system that works for all, past, present, and future. a system that supports, quote, a silts snry using its heritage to build a better nation. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. and thank you all for your comments.
>> you testified we need to do more to establish education as a fundamental purpose of our park system. talk a little bit about that. and why is isn't it clear now that we should be doing that? >> well, i think the thing that we wanted to emphasize is that we feel that it's a core element going forward to both educate for the sake of education, and enhancing our nation's educatiinal agenda, but also as a way to engage young people in diverse communities. i think we heard in the direct rs testimony in the subsequent questions that there is a need to establish a pipeline thal help engage diverse communities, that will help invite them to participate in the work fost and diverse if iing the workforce of the park service and to state that education is a part of this strategic objective for the
next 100 years we feel is important because at least in our opinion it has not always been something that the park service has placed the highest priorities. and there are times in which education has been something that is, shall we say, less than the top of the list of things to either achieve or to fund. >> your testimony suggests that a potential new program moddled after the historic preservation act to allow national park service to work on natural resource protection on nonfederal lands. if you could expand on the idea and the corresponding pitfalls that will occur and the reaction you'll get. >> thank you. we were much impressed on the commission of the success thus far of the national historic
preservation act of 1966 in that it's a mechanism by which the park service can reach out to communities and offer advice, counsel, knowledge, leadership role in engaging the public outside of park boundaries in accomplishing historic preservation goals. they also involve incentives, such as in the case of natural heritage, private land conservation incentives, and we felt it's a model that could be applied effectively and well for the natural ecological goals as it has for the cultural and historic goals. so we feel it's something that could be developed far further in reaching the park service's leadership and the clab rative
role with communities. >> thank you. congressman, how would the private endowment work? >> we believe there are an awful lot of americans at all income levels that want to see the parks better utilized. it seems to us if the president were to appoint a commission to look at how an endowment could be formed, could be created, that would be a good first step. and we would like to tie it into this reemphasis of the parks. this is the period of stayications. people aren't traveling as much
as they might in the past. parks are getting a good deal more utilization in the areas in which they're located. i think there is opportunities to reawaken the public to the park's needs. and we think there will be ways through an endowment to not only enhance the educational programs, the scientific programs we just discussed, but, frankly, to look in terms of funding for enhancements to existing parks. or, in some cases, where there's local support, increasing the uuilization in parks, and developing new ones. so often the money has been provided for these kinds of single purpose local purposes. but we think there's some additional agenda items that really transcend any one individual park that other elements of the community would like to contribute to through an endowment as well. it's not the sole answer we continue to see appropriations as vital, as i said. but we also know that, given
the limits that we're going to be living under, we do have to tap the private sector, and we think there's resources there to be tapped. >> i agree. i think that's spultyamt support is important. it can't supplant what we should be doing. >> we don't want a zero sum game. >> and i guess that would be part of the commission directive as well. how do you assure that p.m.s. is making the decisions regarding how to utilize endowment funds as opposed to the donor? >> i think that's a very pertnent question that would need to be addressed by this question just what the role of the park service is, including the department of interior, in general. and the effort that would be put forth to bring in the resources. some of them would be very targeted and some would be for general purposes, i'm sure.
but all of them need to be coordinated with the park service. >> i've gone over my time but i'm going to ask mr. gal vin a question so i don't have to come back through and extendd that courtesy to my colleagues as well. you've given decades of service, as you mentioned torks the national parks. you have seen all these transitions that we have gone through as a system. if you had to pick, what would you identify as the three, four, five most important things congress could do to further the goals that are part of this report? >> well, i guess my response would be to say that we're all in this together. that parks have become islands in a much larger sea of influence, so to speak.
the director mentioned the potential for this oil spill that occurs really quite far out in the gulf of mexico to affect a dozen national parks. and i think that's a metaphor for our current situations. so what we need to do, what we as a people and we as a congress need to do, is to figure out what it is we want to save. not necessarily what we want to put in national parks. some of it should go in national parks. but there are places, heritage areas, being an example, where locals can identify things that we want to save and then manage that towards the future. consistency is one of the words. it is not antidevelopment, it is smart development. it is smart growth. so that i remember a former superintendent of yellowstone years ago standing up in a management meeting and saying,
you know, when we started our career -- and he was a little bit before my generation -- he said we thought yellowstone was big enough. now we know no park is big enough. and it seems to me solving that problem collectively, all of us, is the biggest problem facing the national park system. and if we solve it, i think we strengthen the country. not just strengthen the national park system, but strengthen the country. >> thank you. mr. bishop. >> ttank you, mr. chairman. and i appreciate the guests here. i'm going to ask each of you just to fill in the sentence. and it comes part because i think some of the goals are convolute. the most important purpose of a national park is? you get to use one dependent phrase, no clauses, and it can't be a compound snnls. so what you're thinking of that one, i do appreciate the testimony you've given some very cogent remarks, none of
the plat tudes that i saw in the report. ms. long, next time you write the report. and congressman, next time as a former appropriator, you're responsible. let's start with dr. lock hart. fill in the sentence. >> would you mind repeating it the first part? >> the most important purpose of a national park is? >> to educate and engage citizens in order to further understand our cultural historic and naltyag -- shared national heritage. >> you got the one phrase in there, and that's nice. ms. long. >> to conserve our nation's heritage imperttute. >> congressman. >> to observe the nation's natural resources and historic sites for the benefit of future
generations. >> ok. sir. >> to preserve the resources therein iminpaired for our future. >> has a certain ring to it. >> no plagorism. >> i appreciate that. as we look at this entire process, one of the things that was interesting but was not part of any of the sentences was about the use of it and the purpose of individuals using the process. but that's something we can talk about in the future and i think those are actually very good sentences. i appreciate you helping out with that. thank you so much. i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you. dr. christianen sen. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank all of our witnesses for being here today. dr. lock hart, would you expand summer jobs on public lands in the pursuit of careers in resource management? your testimony proposes a pipeline or ladder of learning. can you expand on those ideas? and perhaps explain what
barriers may exist to establishing such a system. and as a physician, i'm sure you are very acutely aware of the same pipeline problems we have in developing our diverse health care workforce. >> correct. thank you very much for the question. actually it's obviously something i'm very passionate about on a number of levels. i think that the real barriers start from the fact that one needs, as i was mentioning the example of the park superintendents, it's really about engaging people in the formtive years. when you're figuring out, what do i want to be, what do i want to do? and who do i see who looks like me? who do i see -- why is this something that i should aspire to when i'm not getting the feeeback that this is something that is common in my community. and i will say from personal experience, i caa say that going through a number of national parks there are flot not a lot of people like me that you see there. or maybe latinos or asians or
other members of our diverse communities. so i think that what we were intending this to imply with these ladders of opportunities is there are many, many different programs and ways, but we need to start with children when they're young. i personally believe that using the school system and using the educational system as a way to engage these children, for example, the children we talk about in santa monica were primarily latino children who had not been to the ocean and not seen the ocean and not seen santa monica mountains, they went and then they start to bring their families. and then when there are service opportunities they can come when they're young teens and work in the parks and come to learn to love these places. and then there is the opportunity at that point to interact with other rangers and other staff, and say, you know, maybe this is something i would like to do. and there are actually programs that can be replicated
throughout the national parks to engage folks like this. and i think that is really the model and that's why partnerships are also so important for the park service, because this is not something the park service can do alone. it's really a community. >> and we do have a summer program for not the younger kids but for high school kids at home in st. croix and it's mazing the different it has made when the young people come in and don't know anything about the parks, or do some of tasks but at the end they really love it. >> if i might add this one other foot nothe briefly. there is also an inspirational ranger, woman named betty, she is 87-year-old african american ranger at the national monument. and so she is actually created you tube videos and we talked about technology about this and
her experiences and what it was like to be a black woman in that environment, where it was different than what we think of as the typically caucasian rosy the river -- rivetter image. that's the use of technology. so when those children come out they see and hear those stories which engage them and want them to move forward. >> thank you. congressman, we have a national park foundation, and did the commission discuss the foundation and can that serve in the capacity of doing what the endowment would do? or do you see it as being different? >> i think we have to be very careful that we don't interfere with the ongoing purpose of that organization, that commission. but i do think that's, again, sort of thing that can be looked at by this presidential commission that will try to integrate or separate, if that's required, the roles that each would have going forward. we do need to bring a lot more
resources to the table. we have a broader concept to where those resources could be spent. and isn't all site specific, although that's important and will be ongoing. so i think this needs to be looked at very carefully as we try to proceed to a national campaign and the endowment. >> thank you. and mr. gavelen, you talk in your testimony primary recommendation that the future growth of the system be guided by a strategic vision or plan. and there have been since 1980 many, many major studies on where the park is, where it should be going, major conferences. is there not that kind of a plan in place already? or are you recommending that we update it or? >> a little of both.
we looo, in fact read the previous national park system plans. and we would -- and they come to some conclusions that the, frankly, we endorse. if you look at the previous natural history plan it indicates that there's not much in the way of conservation lands in the middle part of the country, the mississippi valley, et cetera. and i think we came to the same conclusion. i think i go back to the remarks that were made by the congresswoman from wyoming in that any strategii vision or plan has to be vetted in the grass roots. this is not entirely a scientific or technical task. it is identifying gaps. it is saying, for instance, nobody is protecting short grass praire or dsdgsdgs
inadequate protection. it's not identifying a place on the map. out if thhre's public support d for such protection, and whether or not that support indicates it ought to be a national park versus a national wild live refuge or something like that. it is a comprehensive system based on a national conservation strategy that suggests future growth for the national park system without being prescriptive. and obviously those remarks apply on the cultural resources side. many of the parks that have been created recently under chairman are parks that we would not have imagined creating 20 years ago. and some commemorating events that the mountain was mentioned that the country would never have considered adding to the national park system. so we see a need for strategic direction but we also see a
need for grass root support and developing this vision. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. a question to everyone here today. as the commission was deliberating, taking into conversation that each park across the country is unique, that we all have special places, that we want to make sure that we're providing protection to, access to, but the importance of taking into conversation specifically with this question native american and hispanic communities, what are your thoughts preserving access for traditional uses to our beautiful lands, sustaining heritage and protecting cultural practices? i respect very much the responses to our ranking member
and the inclusion of the recommendations with cultural connectivity, life-long learning history, community assistance. and any thoughts in that area? >> i might make a comment briefly about just ann observation of an example in which the national park service can play a real role in engaging with cultural restoration in the native american community, for example, up in the olympic park, which is an example of where it's a combination of working closely with the local tribe there and obviously restores the natural resources, the natural flow of the river. it also restores the salmon that the tribe has historically had and is considered their
birth place. and it creates an opportunity for not just that tribe but also for that community to learn more and be educated more about the culture and to understand and preserve that culture. so it's actually bringing back the culture, it's educating the community, and it's establishing a link between the park service it's preserving for future generations and is achieving all those things by honoring and respecting the native practices that once existed and bringing them back. so it's an opportunity to achieve all of those things and i think it's a wonderful example of how the park service as an institution can play a role in making that happen in communities. >> anyone else? >> i would only ask -- offer to look to alaska and the way in which the park service works cooperatively with indiginous populations and the preserving
of traditional yuges as an example of approaches that might be appropriately used more broadly. alaska has been quite successful in that regard. >> another question to get some response to is we have places in new mexxco which has fallen into different situations as we were trying to preserve that area as well. what are your thoughts along that line as well with maybe the inclusion of that into the park system while at the same time recognizing that when the land was turned over into the preserve that we have today, that there was grazing that was taking place. it was said to be turned over in pristine condition where there was working with the community, access to hunting and figsing fishing, wood gathering to help with keeping this beautiful place healthy as well? any thoughts along those lines?
>> i had the great pleasure of living in new mexico in the laste 1960s, and know both those places very well. i would go back to answer your earlier question in this context. and that is that as congress has created new units of the national park system, it is usually responded with recognition of local conditions. a good example in the context of your earlier question is the canyon which became a national park unit in the 1930s but in which the park service owns no land. the navajo tribe owns the land and the national park service was given the mission of interpreting and running educational programs there at the suffer rans of the navajo tribe, i might say. so that with respect to bringing the grande into the national park system, which
personally since i'm not speaking as an administration witness, i think it's a great idea. but i think it needs -- the legislation needs to be crafted to recognize the kind of local values that you're talking about. and i think it would be a great addition to the national park system and i think that can be done using input from the local people. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. chairman. >> let me thank this panel. excellent. appreciate it very much. and invite the next panel up. and thank you again.
>> let me ask the gentleman from new mexico to introduce our first panelist. >> mr. chairman, thank you very much. today i have the great pleasure of introducing two of my constituents. jerry rogers, formerly of the national park service, and armand or tagea. mr. rogers has been a vital coordinator for over four decades serving in an official capacity as the associate director for cultural resources and keeper of the national register of historic places. he played a crucial role in the shaping of the national park
service, appointed conference chair of discovery 2000, the general conference in which he worked to envision and lay the foundation for the future of the national parks in our nation. in addition to his capacity as a leader with the mps, after retirement he continued to serve new mexico's national parks as a board member and president of the new mexico heritage preservation alliance. his work, while making the natural beauty of new mexico more accessible, shows his deep understanding of both the national and local importance of our national parks. his unique background makes his contributions invaluable. alternative, mr. arm ando has been the concession at the early parks since the 1990s. has seen his business grow.
serving visitors to large parks and small monments, his business has grown into an expansive company that employs and serves thousands every years. as the national parks enter the second century, small businesses will play a critical role. mr. chairman, it's an honor to welcome these two outstanding newmans. and i look forward to their tms. >> i look forward to the first witness mr. orttagea. and thank you for your hospitality when we were there to visit. very much appreciate it. >> thank you for that wonderful introduction. i want to talk about three specific things that we have done.
i understand we need to do a lot in this next century but we came in and we bid against very large multibillion dollar concession nares. we have managed to increase the attendance at all our parks, moreover we managed to increase the revenues. and, three, we have done that by maintaining very good relations with the m.p.s. now, in spite of that i want to point out, as wonderful as the second century report was, i think the i'm the only representative up here of the concessions. and if you look at the report, i found the word concessions one time. now, i understand they were -- they had bigger fish to fry. but let me give you one statistic. there are 21,000 employees of the national parks working in the national parks. there are 26,000 employees from the concessions.
almost all 26,000 of those interface with all of the visitors every day nd almost all of the park employees. tell you a little bit about the stores that we do have. the reason we won banda lir probably is because we show the national parks how we could take the sale of native american wares from 10% to 60%. in white sands, the reason we won was because we also showed them how they could raise indian arts and crafts but we offered to renovate historically valuable building. the parks did not have the money so we donated the money. that was not necessarily out of the goodness of my heart or the cooperation. we understood that over the period of time we could make that money back. and we have. we remoddled the whole thing, took down the and did the old-style spanish floor. it was a lot of fun and a lot
of wrk but now it's really nice. as carlsbad we showed how we could save the eco ssms. fortunately i have a daughter in-law who did her chemistry at stanford. by the way, we bid at a kitchen table against companies that have rows and rows of writers. but we are very, very motivated. anyway, to mure woods, very quickly. we -- by the way, at all these parks we brought in ---we have managed to bring in and increase not just attendance and not just the revenues where we're paying literally $250 to 300% more than the previous concession nare buu we managed to bring in minorities and younger people. and they're very, very different ways. i respect them in the report. but there's very simple ways to
bring in minorities. and i would like to talk about that. i don't think i'm going to have quite the time. the other thing we're really happy with is that we created a totally or almost totally food sustainable restaurant operation. almost all of our food is sourced within a 30 to 35 mile radius. almost everything is repsych lable. -- cycleable, all natural. and we have won and i apologize i don't know the names of all the considerable environmental and green awards we have won, but my son who is heading it up has told me about them and trust me there are a bunch. we're going to be on the food channel next month. i don't watch the food channel much, i just eat food, but we're going to be on it on a show called the best thing i ever ate. it was the los angeles times has covered us, the "new york times." the "wall street journal."
and the san francisco chronical and other papers. so we're getting a lot of publicity. and that's free to the parks. the last thing i would like to say is in reading the second commission report, there is one other, i'd like to gently suggest there's one other area where maybe people should think about a little bit. everything they said or a lot of things they said, i don't agree with everything, is really good. but there is already a proto type and i mentioned it. there was a guy named brian o'neal in san francisco. brilliant guy, just passed away. i got to meet him about a year ago. and he created the golden gate conservancy. the great thing about brian is he didn't didn't think just in terms, he thought out of the box. he thought about how best to stoifparks. so if he could work with an
entrepreneur, he would do that. if he could do a traditional national park contract, he would do that. they were doing a $150 million motel. you can't do it on a 10 or 20 year term like the parks do. you can't amortize that. over that short period of time. so he found a way to do a conventional commercial lease. he worked with nonprofits. he set up a park investment fund. by the way, thee funds might by really useful, especially fror the smaller entrepreneurs such as myself. i don't mean to brag, but i think we're one of the best operations in the parks. if i could get the money some of these largers had, i could compete with them and perhaps give them a run for the money and raise the bar for everybody. thank you, mr. chairman. >> president, national conference of state historic
preservation officers, welcome. and thank you. >> thank you, chairman and ranking member for the opportunity to testify before you today. i am president of the national conference of state historic preservation officers and also the director for the division of historic preservation of the new york state office. state historic preservation officers aund countless historic advocates are elated to see this report contain such a strong historic preservation component. as the report states, our nation is best armed to address the future with the public knowledge about its history, the resourcors, and the responsibilities of citizenship. the conservation of our nation's historic and natural resources occurs along a continuum. at one end, conservation occurs through the national park services ownership of our parks t at the other end, it accomplishes conservation of nonfederally owned historic
tribal historic preservation offices, referred to as shipos and tipos. the resources are best served when the federal government serves all components. no nation has the resources to buy and maintain property imperttute. every historic place. however, america's conservation continuum allows us to preserve or consider preservation of er historic place. the second century report recommends, and we whole heartedly agree that the prest vasion fund must have permanent funding at its auts rised level of $150 million for the program to be executed as the original writers intended. like the lwcs, it derives from
offshore oil lease revenues. effectively using one nonrenewable resource to preseeve others our nation's natural and historic resources which benefit all americans enriching parks, open space, and our human hoob tat, those neighborhoods and main streets where we live work and play. a fully funded would impact numerous report recommendations but i would like to a few moments to highlight three. first, regarding the recommendation for increased access to historic tools and incentives by residents of high poverty areas across the country. all american experiences are far from the same. but they are all significant and necessary to tell america's complete story. when provided the means, we have the infrastructure in place to assist all communities and ensure that america's complete story can be told forever. i ask you, how disappointing and misleading would it be if future ark oljists came to
crux of the program said work with communities, such as the american battlefield, and teaching with historic places, also complement these efforts. finally, regarding the recommendation to identify bull+ and achievable goals, mr. chairman, i challenge you to think outside of the box, and support the entire conservation continue. in doing so, you will of firm the original content of the act, and it will also recognize that historic preservation should be a goal of the nation's sustainability, livability, and great outdoors
agenda. it is one of the best tools, by using existing infrastructure that provides a sense of place, and leveraging that authenticity for new investment, tourism, and smart growth. by setting bold, new goals, we will invest in the health, knowledge, and quality of our nation's future. in conclusion, please remember that for nearly half a century, results have been produced that benefit all americans. the combination works. today, with the natural and built environment being threatened, it is time to reaffirm this partnership. it is time to give the state and tried to the funding and tools to do the job that the national historic preservation act
visionary creators intended. >> thank you. thank you for being here. we look forward to your comments. >> chairman -- chairman grijalva. i left hand on my own time and expense in my capacity as a member of the association of national park rangers. i am pleased to present this testimony. hi thank you -- i thank you for holding this. we are a non-profit organization founded in 1977, and today, it has 177 members that include current, former, and aspiring employees.
we advocate for all employees, regardless of their job title. last year, in knoxville, tenn., director jarvis spoke about the commission report, comparing it to other well-written reports. director jarvis elaborated by explaining that the to not necessarily need another report, we need to take action. we agree. subcommittee members might be asking themselves how does the nps move from a report to the desired outcomes? if it is legislation, we recommend accountability measures attached at park levels and individual employee annual appraisals. we recommend greater emphasis in these areas. simplify the application and
hiring process fees, and utilize authorities that moved the best college students into the workforce. establish close relationships with universities and colleges. with regard to nps recruitment and diversity, we believe we could be of assistance under a cooperative agreement, with the right set of conditions. this would be true with the college chapter program. we think targeting minority university and colleges is the way to tell. -- the way to go. we believe that for a better future, time and energy must be invested into the in the careers of students and seasonal employees that are the work force of tomorrow. we cannot emphasize enough that
getting hired into a national parks and job often requires more than education and technical skills. it also requires understanding of the application procedures and preparation technique, and an understanding of how to navigate the culture for opportunities of not working. in the area of training, we support the current superintendent's academy with modern modification to help understand the culture. we agree that nps should invest 4% of its budget among the park's in place based on this fire, and each should be adjusted so as not to exclude this amount. we believe we can be in the
most insistent -- assistance, increasing the diversity of applicants for your college chapters program, and by serving in place to ascertain what type of employees they feel as lacking. our members represent over 10,000 years of experience. for many of us, the national park idea is the central theme, not only in our professional lives, but in many cases, our values, our sense of patriotism, and our very definition of what being an american is. the pledge to assist this committee and the service in whatever way we can to assure that the national park idea meet -- remains relevant and accessible for our citizens today, and then and many more yet to be born.
-- and the many more yet to be born. i am pleased to present this testimony, and i would be happy to answer any questions you may have. >> thank you. jerry roberts. welcome, sir. >> mr. chairman. i am very grateful for the opportunity to appear today as they represent the of the coalition of national park service retirees. working among the diverse and creative minds of the commission members was a wonderful capstone to a career. working as one of 800 memberr, the voices of experience speak from unique perspective, and it reinforces it was more of a calling than a career.
experiences teach one to draw on history, and thinks critically. that is by coalition members were among the first to advocate using the national parks centennial. that is why the coalition supports everything in the commission report, advancing the park idea, and in the reports of the nation could build a committees. the formal statements touch on only a few of the recommendations -- demographic change, education, and play development, and international activities, but we support the mall. at the core are three fundamentals which it the first of the national park and the places reserved by others using-
the park service's programs are america. that is how americans know ourselves as the people. to of the low, the national parks cannot be preserved and acting only in side of the national park. the grass roots approach is of the services restoration program provide guidance for how the parks can be preserved. historic preservation is more a citizen movement than a government program. it begins with owners of historic places who feel the privilege of stewardship, and with neighbors who live near the places and love them, seeking advice, help, and sometimes support. they make good use of non-profit organizations and local governments. compass nonprofits and more than 1700 local governments are part of the movement. for further help, they turned to
officers who are appointed by their governor, and to run programs tailored to the history and reality of their individual state. most of the 80,000 listings in the national register got there through nominations initiated through local people, and formalized through historic preservation officers. almost 90 american indian tribes are a part of this bottom-up process, which works on behalf of the national park idea, instead parks, in beyond boundaries. the national park service's directed by law to provide leadership. a good way to do that with the na -- would be to enable and support the network, that in turn, supports the parks.
we can develop programs better counterpart to the historic preservation programs, perhaps assisted with state-wide land, water conservation support. there is an urgent problem in the preservation program that requires mediation before the programs can return to their visionary potential. they have suffered from repression, rather than inspiration. they have undergone budget and staff reductions of 25% or more. recruitment of an associate director for cultural resources needs to be completed as quickly as possible, and the service needs to support that action with a cultural resource challenge, but it stack initiative, counterpart to the initiative of recent years.
only then, can they return to a position of leadership in these fields. we think the subcommittee for holding this hearing. we hope it will only be the carrying of -- the beginning of a national conversation in the congress, and throughout the country, and the value of parks and park service programs, and how to carry out the century of success into a second century. let's create and maintain a focus and vision. think you, sir. >> dr. raymond warner. welcome, sir. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i am not a specialist in the national parks system, war in conservation. -- or in conservation. i have worked closely with the park service in its international outrage. first, as the state department
of the serve responsible for preparing delegations for meetings of the world heritage committee. since retirement, and behalf of the united nations foundation unshared priorities such as bio diversity share protection. this morning, i speak for myself alone. on the basis of this long experience, i wish to share with you my firm conviction that to the degree the international outrage of the national park service can be strengthened and expanded, to that degree, the national interest and the global good will be served. i say this, not only because of the unparalleled expertise of the park service in conservation, but also because of the indispensable credibility that it brings to the state department's in negotiating politically-sensitive issues of heritage protection in the
jerusalem, cosell, and the tie- cambodian border. the park service has, for many years, done by having a lifting in preparing and leading our department's participation. over the years, it has identified over 800 sites worldwide commenting to be aaout standing universal value. they take it seriously, as does the international conservation community. a measure of this serious this is that the annual committee meeting of just 21 members, usually draws a hundred to 900 delegates, even when meeting areas like australia, south africa, and new zealand.
while there is usually background noise in these meetings, a hush falls when the national park service is at the microphone because everyone knows that the park service will speak knowledgeably and credibly about the conservation of these sites, and about how local communities can help with conservation and benefit from the economic dividends they can provide. for many years, the park service's, under both republican and democratic administrations, has given credibility to u.s. delegations at these meetings. there are likely many reasons for this international respect for the parks service and the united states. in large measure, it appears to be a return unsound investment made by the u.s. government in
international programs such as the peace corps partnership in 1972, which grew into the largest volunteer conservation program in the world. the park service's international seven -- seminar at comparable success, and continues to bring long-term benefits of good will and no technical expertise. -- and enhance this program put the u.s. and the national parks service on the you -- on the map as the key conservation player, internationally, and served to introduce hundreds of innovative ideas and concepts to the national parks service management. it is noteworthy that the current deputy is a seminar graduate.
this is one reason the united states has significant policy influence. regrettably, funding for tte seminar for rodent, and like the peace corps agreement, it was discontinued. fortunately, good things continue to happen. the national parks service recently initiated the world heritage fellows program, which offers training opportunities to qualified candidates who wish to learn from the u.s. experience in managing and protecting world heritage sites. the fellow's work alongside professionals in a variety of areas. travel expenses are paid by the international office, while individual parks provide housing. mr. chairman, as we celebrate the beginning of the park's system second century, it is
clear that the forces that shape our future are becoming global in nature. i respectfully suggest that it is time to revise -- to provide the national parks service with the means to renew and expand its international outreach, in particular to renew its partnership with the peace corps, and relaunch its seminar on the administration of national parks, as well as assignments of specialists to regional parks and wildlife training senators in the developed -- centers in developed nations. it has the potential to mobilize a retired conservation specialists for service abroad. these are the kind of things are the tournament because of very well, and their records show their investment will bring a higher return.
thank you, mr. chairman. let me begin. -- >> but the beacon. -- let me begin. you mentioned in your testimony that you had so much-needed renovation to the concession space, and afterward you give those improvements to the park. following up on that, do you have any thoughts about dealing with a problem that i proceed in the parks, where a lease will surrender interest and capital investment is a prohibition almost four competing concessionaires in the bidding process? your reaction to that? >> would you say it is true.
-- what you say is true. they are almost the imaginary town sets that have nothing to do with reality. there are a lot of situations, not so much in our parks. we have a situation at the grand canyon where the lsi is that something like 250 million. they do about 70-75 million a year, and they're making somewhere between seven and 8 million. i'm not privy to that book. i'm just using illegal of thumb. there is no way -- i am just using a rule of thumb. there is no way to get people to bid precisely for this reason. i do not know, as an aside, where they got these numbers.
i suspect there was a llttle pushing buys some of the concessions long ago to inflict those numbers. at any rate, -- to inflate those numbers. any rate, it is definitely a problem. i can put a question back to anyone -- what if the concessionaire and their looks at the numbers and realizes this is not worth $250 million and they leave? is the government not supposed to pay thee that two hundred 50 million? $250 million dollars?on ta >> mr. rogers, a general idea of
the kind of units that are lacking in the current system. >> mr. chairman, the culture resources committee gave attention to this during the process of the commission. i would say that some of the more obvious examples are the ones alluded to by rep lujan. the american industry is to the american indian history, which is not active reach back. there is an american indian history that is its own think, and that is not very visible in the national parkkthe wisdom, and it really ought to be there. along that, this subcommittee directed the national parks
service to study the theme of space exploration, and we did come of listing historic landmarks based on trips to the moon and elsewhere, and not many of those projects represented in the system. you could probably change every one of the historic teams -- improve the team by giving more attention to the role of women and minorities. there has been relatively little repreeentation of the history of labor in america. most important, perhaps, the changing definition of what it means to the american. as has been said earlier, that is changing very rapidly. we need to keep up with that. 20th century history would represent some of that. >> you also mentioned, mr.
rogers, you talk about how nps is emphasizing a leadership role. how does that differ from the regulatory agency? >> thank you for that question. the energy comes from people that want something, and the various levels of government serve the energy. probably 25 or 30 years, when i was running these programs in so far as you can run them, from the national park service perspective, i came to realize that i was responsible for this white-rate -- for this wide-
ranging network of public officials and i had zero authority to make anyone do anything it caused me to focus on what leadership really is. one thing it is not his command. it is not control. it is not even supervision. leadership is coming in the case like this, shaping and maintaining a clear vision for the future, monetary the best in the management and selection of outstanding places, and creating environments where others, such as my colleagues at these tables can succeed in doing the things the national park service needs them to do. >> thank you. your testimony was excellent. i think the point that we need to deal with this is the finest
point that you brought up. that is an urgency that the need to deal with. i want to thank all of the panelists. i think the issue that you brought up -- we have talked about morale issues, and you also brought up the complexity of the culture -- how to end up in employment. your suggestions are targeted and well-represented. to life for that. dr. warner -- thank you for that. dr. warner, i think we might do this again about the need to affix some permanency to the peace corps and a shift and -- initiative, and, also, i think your point about the park service's role in diplomacy and
a national player we need to be are was appreciative. i will turn to ranking member of mr. bishop. >> i also want to thank all five of you for your presentation and your comments. i appreciate your time and effort to you have obviously of live the rest of the committee. thank you for being here. do not worried about the issue did not worry about the space funding. it is an area that needs to be explored once again. for some members of my family, a good part is one that has a good kid shot. for the others, it depends on the kind of bathrooms.
for me, if you are not selling dr. pepper, i do not want to be there. as to your questions of what entices people, concessions are indeed one of those reasons why people go to parks, or why they will return to live very much. >> -- thank you very much. >> before adjourning, someone handed me a good quote. i thought it would be a good way to adjourn the meeting. "if we're going to succeed, we must be have held inviolate. if we're going to whittle away, we must correct it best that of such willing are primitive.
and the audubon society senior director on the gulf of mexico oil spill. "washington journal" is live at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> new prime minister and conservative party leader, david cameron, ields questions in this first session as prime minister. sunday night, on c-span. >> our public affairs content is available on television, radio, and online. you can sign up for our scheduled all the females that -- that c-span.org. >> a new report says that budget deficits are expected to continue for two years. now, a news conference to
discuss the results. this is about 35 minutes. >> to lead. we are released and our joint survey of the fiscal situation of the state, and will give you the results today. our report finds that states, unfortunately, are still suffering significantly from this great recession. the fiscal situation in the state is going to be for 2011,
the next fiscal year, it is going to be such that we will not have recovered from pre- recession times. i think that this significant. the fiscal situation for states going into 2011 will still be worse than we were before the recession. that -- tax collections will have declined 7.8% between 2008 and 2011. spending will have declined 7.8%. the current report that we're releasing indicates that states will still see some increases in tax collection as we go into fiscal year 11, and we are projecting an increase, and interestingly, a 3.6% increase
in spending. keep in mind, these levels and not get us back to pre-recession times. we would have to have a growth rate of over 8% to get us back to pre-recession levels. a neighbor of mine was laid off. this is a good analogy. she lost a marketing job. now, she is taking on consulting positions. like the states, she had a huge decline in her income. now that she has some consulting positions, she has a growth, interest income, but she is not back to pre-recession levels. that is what the states are facing. draconian cuts and tax increases that otherwise would have occurred, have been avoided to some extent by the recovery act funds. it is important to remember that
we are looking at a cliff. according to the data, we cannot protect that revenue is going to come in to make up for the loss of recovery act funds. there will be further cuts. let me give you some grief specifics. first, i will talk about state spending. general fund spending is estimated to decline by 6.8% this year. that is significant, given that spending increases year-over- year by 5.8% it is unbelievably low. we expect a three person -- a 3.6% increase in 2011, but it does not contest that to the pre-recession levels. we are still lower than what we were in 2008. let me mention the-year budget
cuts. there are an excellent indicator of where we are in terms of state fiscal health. 40 states have cut their budgets mid-year, after the passage of the budget. that is extremely significant. we have 43 states do so in 2009. 40 states this year, in 2010, and in 2008, it was only 13 states. these are record numbers. we thought during the post september 11 recession, it was the worst we could see, and now we are up to 43 lacher, and 40 this year. but the talk about the findings in texas. the number -- in taxes. revenue from all sources, all
other taxes and fees, are below original projections in an unprecedented 46 states. there were only two states that had projections met, and only two states that tax is coming in above projections. these are unprecedented numbers. recommended budgets forecastt a 4.9% increase in tax collections for 2011, however, general revenue tax collection levels are still below where they were it is a very significant, and unprecedented. let me talk briefly about tax increases. based on the governor's proposed budgets, we propose -- we forecasts that if you take
taxes and fees together, it is about $5 billion. it is quite a significant drop- off between 2010 and 2011. now, i will talk about the balance levels. these are the rainy day funds that state experiences -- united states experience. total balances are estimated to be about 4.2% in 2010, and the in 2011, about 5.8%. our concern is that they overstate the fiscal health of space, simply because texas and alaska have such huge balances they overstate the actual numbers. what we're really seeing, is
that it to take those two states held, you are bound to 2.4% balances for 2010. we consider that exceptionally low. 13 states are under $10 million. the concern about that is that we would estimate, and say that that is about zero. we have 13 states with no balances. it is if air of a low number. -- it is a fairly low number. let me finish up with our findings and medicaid and our budget gap. as far as medicaid is concerned, medicaid expect -- medicaid enrollment did increase.
it is estimated to have increased 10.5% this fiscal year. when you looked at proposed budgets, we estimate that it rose to be about 1%. what is interesting is that the state-funded portion is 7%, while federal funds are expected to decrease 1.7%. enrollment is expected to increase by 21% this is all expected during a tough recession. it is exactly what we have seen. i will finish up with a couple of comments on the budget gaps. these shortfalls are a bit of an indicator. the budget gaps totaled nearly
$300 million. we believe that is a conservative estimate. we tend to be cautious. of this nearly $300 billion, states a closed $177 billion of the camp, based on either federal funds, tax increases, or federal cuts. 32 states reported budget caps totaling 60 two billion dollars for 2011. 24 states reported 3.2 $4 billion for budget year 2012. again, it is fairly significant. we believe that four years of it $300 billioo gap is a fairly conservative estimate. in conclusion, the report we are a decent today shows the states
are still in fiscal peril. their recovery lags the economic incremental recovery that you see in the overall economy turn it that makes sense for a number of reasons. revenue should begin to grow. we are expected to take place in 2011, but it continues to be a situation where we are pre- recession levels. spending pressure and a traumatic decline in the federal funds will make ford difficult, very difficult choices for states going forward. they do have to budget -- balance their budgets. we expect 2011 and 2012 to be very difficult with that very sunny news, i will turn it over to the executive director of
the national governors' association. >> thank you. we have been saying for some time that the death of this great depression woods and repercussions for a 10-year period. you can break it down into three individual components. the first is the huge growth in medicaid. we have been through that. we have a ways to go. the second would be the jobless recovery. the third would be what i would call the payback period. we have to put it back into trust funds, health care, retirees, pensions. he has to update your infrastructure, and to rainy day fund.
unfortunately, i think it has played the the way we laid it out a year or so ago. i stress that the total budget numbers of $300 billion over the 2009-2012 -- the good news is, we have closed about 1/37 7 million -- billion dollars of debt. -- about $177 billion of that. i do believe that this fiscal year, which we are heading into, which starts july 1, 2011, will be the worst year. the reason i say that is two- fold.
in 2010, states raised taxes and fees by about 24 billion. what you have seen on the table for the next fiscal year is only $3 billion. part of that is a sense that people have maxed out on tax increases, and we are also going into a political year. i do not see very much movement in terms of additional taxes. most of the rest of us will, of the spending side. -- will come out of the spending side it will be really tough. what is essentially left is a budget officer same governor, you do not want me to go there again, do you? from here on, these to be very, very difficult. -- these will be very, very difficult. a couple of other statistics
that want to reiterate -- if you trace it historically, looking back over the last 33 years, there was only one year, 1983, will lease of spending go negative. at that particular time, it was only 0.7%. that was considered probably the worst recession that of that particular time. over the last two years, we have seen spending cut by about 11%, to give you some kind of respect of on how bad it has been relative to that particular period. the question is, where do states go in terms of the rest of these cuts? i would argue that we are already seeing it. they'll go to two places -- reimbursement rates in medicaid. right now, they are a lot at 72% of medicare rates.
you cannot cut eligibility. i think they are beginning to cut reimbursement rates, which will eventually prove difficult in terms of access for health care. the other place i think they will increasingly goal is to employees. -- co-is to employees. we have already seen it. 12 had seven reductions. i think, unfortunately, they will continue to kill their, and i would speculate that you would find more -- go there, and i speculate you will find more layoffs. i think, increasingly, they will probably go to jobs. what has happened is that states have cut back jobs by about 48,000. as the economy continues to
rebound, you aren't getting private-sector job creation, -- you are getting private-sector job creation, but state and local governments will drag going forward. finally, we still have the so- called medicaid pending on the senate side we would like to call on the senate to pass that over the next couple of weeks. it is about 23 the in dollars. we looked at it as the bridge monday. i think -- the bridge money. i think 2011 will be the worst. these would be two additional quarters. it would be essentially a bridge to get to 2012, where i believe, we will get some revenue growth. it is about here, going forward, if we do not receive this money, we will see additional
cuts to reimbursement rates, and more layoffs going forward. one will have access to health care, and the other will be a drag on the ability of the economy to respond. we have a letter up their. i think we have had wide support for the two-quarter expansion. this? -- why don't we go to questions? we will go to the room first, and then to the telephones. >> did you have any figures that shows state spending as a share of gdp, or income, or whatever, to show how that has been effected over the last seven or eight years? >> i do not have it in front of me. that is certainly something we can put together.
>> is your impression that we are now below historical levels, or there was a run-up in the early part of the century, and that we are reverting to a historic trend? >> i believe we are below historical levels. there are a lot of measurement differences between the numbers. it is hard to say. we are still quite a bit under the two thousand eight level. in other words, even from a revenue and spending standpoint, you would have to have revenue increase by about 8% to get back to that 2008 level. we do not think we will have revenues to do that until 2013 or 2014. that is a good 5-or six-year period.
>> there's a lot of difference with how they handle pension. >> i should mention, they tend to group state and local together. just for your information, sometimes they're all together. >> i was wondering if either of you could talk about the impact on capital spending and the infrastructure senate, and so far with that has meant? -- so far what that has meant. maybe factor in the the waning of the stimulus. >> you are really having to cut everywhere. usually, in other downturns, the ability to go to the debt markets has been ameliorated some of the of lack of capital funding. this is been such a deep recession, with the cuts the is so significant, that the structure has been hit in a
sense. there are recovery act funds. those of health. a long-term is what marcia -- what states are worried about. they are very concerned about maintenance, and the ability to have the funds going forward, for particularly large infrastructure projects. >> the thing congress needs to do more than the 23 billion dollars? >> we are supporting that. a fleet of some moderate growth in revenues, it will be the bridge money that gets us to put it well. -- we are seeing some moderate growth. it will be the bridge money that can attest to 2012. if we do not have a double dip.
>> other questions? >> your figure of total job cuts, what person is that of total -- what percent of total is that? >> we could get it for you. it is around two 0.2 million. >> if your projections going forward, -- in your projections going forward, i assume there is no infusion of federal aid. >> the figures in the report do not. >> to the figures here just reflect general funds, reaching to the figures here just reflect general funds? my impression is -- can you give me some estimates how much of the total spending the general
funds represents, and leather has been cut? >> >> it is interesting. the way it breaks down, and general fund spending tends to be about 43% of total spending. the problem is those funds go through k-12 education, higher education medicaid, and so forth. the best example is the gas tax that is earmarked for transportation, where federal funds that are specifically earmarked for a particular purpose, whether it is public safety, or whatever the case might be. when we talk about the shortfall in the general fund, of those are the ones that are basically discretionary. they go for the important areas like education and health care, for the most part. >> the other money includes the federal money. that is up.
that ratio might not hold for this particular period. there is an additional $135 billion of educational and medicaid money. that would change that ratio for that period. >> for your information, this focuses on general funds, but we do a report later in the year that focuses on the total. >> is there some conjecture as to how the overall situation has become so acute? is there any conjecture as to how things have become so acute from a national perspective ?eb >> at a state level, it is important to remember that we are not national governments. we do not have the same tools. we're at the mercy of economic
transit conditions. we do not have the same tools. it really does make it difficult. you have to balance your budget. it is much more of a zero-sum game at the state level. >> the problem, normally, when you come out of a recession, you get a v-shape. it hit the end of demand, and when you come out, it is not unusual to have revenue increases of 8%, 9%, or 10%. looking around the economy, you have a lot of components. consumers lost a lot of money. they are not leading the charge. housing is disasters. you're not getting any construction. the only places you are getting strength is to some extent investment in capital from the private sector, and then, the federal government. that has been neutralized.
until you get one or two of those other sectors moving, and get that job creation, and we will see tomorrow with the jobs report, -- everyone is talking about been optimistic. we will see. but you need to hundred thousand to 300,000, just to keep even. unless we start getting 500,000, 600,000, 700,000 job creation, this will not change for awhile. >> the flexibility of states this difficult. there are a lot of constraints. we tend to complain about the federal level requiring us to do things. it is more than that. the western states have the initiative process. a lot of states have court cases that have ordered equalization. i want to mention that it is
really heard when you have a zero-sum game, into heavy enormous restrictions and constraints and your ability to be flexible with the funding. theet's go to questions on telephone. >> thank you. if you have a question, press star, then one. once again, crestar, then one and your touch-tone phone -- press star, and then one, and your touch-tone phone. >> thank you for taking my call. can you explain where the job cuts have been coming from and where do you see them going forward -- cutting police, cutting librarians? secondly, even though you're saying 2011 will be worse than 2010, and the states are still