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tv   Washington Journal  CSPAN  December 14, 2013 7:00am-10:01am EST

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then i look at the two-year budget deal. "washington journal" is next. ♪ recent addition to white house staff, her job will be more responsive. .he concerns on the hill iran says talks over its nuclear program are in jeopardy after the u.s. extend the blacklist of helping a rant get around stations. the wall street journal says the decisions of the federal reserve to reduce the $85 billion per month program could help the economy and could come as early as next week. this is the washington journal for december 14. for our first 45 minutes, thoughts on sandy hook on this one-year anniversary since the
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shooting at sandy hook elementary school in newtown connecticut. some in congress advocated for tougher gun laws. in our first 45 minutes who would like to get your views on gun control. have they changed since sandy hook and consequently other shootings, even as early as yesterday. here's how you can reach out to us this morning -- you can participate on a pole on our facebook page. and you can send this e-mail to journal@c-span.org. the connecticut-based papers play up the event of last year in this manner, the hartford .urrent out of connecticut
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go to the newtown local paper, not much mention of an anniversary event but they do have a listing of what the churches will be doing on the weekend and how they will commemorate things. the colorado papers picking up the story out of that high school yesterday. the denver post with the large headline -- for our first 45 minutes, in light of the anniversary at sandy hook and in light of efforts on gun control right after that -- you may remember as early as this year the president announced efforts to tighten gun-control laws. not many things happening on congress on that front. we want to get your thoughts and if your views have changed on gun controls and sandy hook. here are the numbers --
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if you go to our facebook page, we posed this question last night. we got 240 responses to it but also posted this as a poll. of the people that participate, 27 say theirthat views have changed and 251 people saying no, their views have not changed since sandy hook. max is up first this morning. he is from georgia on our republican line. thank you for calling. what are your thoughts on gun control since sandy hook? caller: it is pretty self- explanatory when you look at places like new york city and chicago, where crime rates are ridiculous and gun-control laws are so stifling nobody can legally carry a gun. mayor bloomberg does not want anybody to carry a gun except for law enforcement.
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i think an armed society is a polite society. it is also a compliant society. host: do you come from this as the point of owner -- as the point of view of a gun owner. military.am a retired host: emily is calling on our democrats line. caller: it's evelyn. this oneore we have buyback program they put on every so often. to me it doesn't make sense because a person who is mentally challenged, they are not going to bring their guns back, the criminals are not going to bring their guns back. and the people turning their their gunshat -- and in late, they have no protection. earning their guns in, they have no protection.
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try to figure out how they're going to handle this. whether they get these guns at the border or the gun shops selling guns under the table or they bring them out of the military, they are going to have to do something because i'm so tired of being gun shy around my house all the time. what would you like to see happen from either a federal or state level when it comes to gun issues? i think the federal government should keep their eye on what is going on. all states do not have a login programs. baltimore come a detroit, chicago is horrible --
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baltimore, detroit, chicago is horrible. the caller mentioned law enforcement and don't twitter as well -- at 7:45 we are going to be featuring two members of the law-enforcement community. we are going to take up a discussion on gun control efforts. that will be at 7:40 five this morning. on state-level issues, the new york times highlighted the fact that when it comes to state gun gun bills havee been introduced since the newtown massacre last year. it also breaks down the fact that when it comes to those gun laws that were passed, 70 lucinda gun restrictions, 39 of those tighten it.
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-- 70 loosened gun restrictions, 39 of those tightened it. larry from ohio. caller: it would not surprise me if the death rates though down because there would not be any accident in the states. then we would have a situation that law enforcement alone would decide what is an acceptable murder rate the murders are still going to happen. they won't stopped all of them. i think they will be forgiving of themselves of whatever the murder rate is. sandy hook, about 30 got killed. the government is very forgiving of its own mistakes but they want to leave us totally disarmed? host: how much of an effort needs to be done on the
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federal level and how much do you think needs to be done on the state level? caller: i am just wondering should they control it? murderers -- murders ill happening. -- murders still happen. beauty -- i am disputing whether they should leave us totally unarmed. they want us to be helpless and to protect ourselves. host: joe is up next from belgian, illinois, republican line. caller: i look at it this way. as ak at the criminals lion and the american people as a gazelle. what they want to do is they off thecut the cords gazelle so we make better targets for the criminals. i don't believe in that. i believe in the second amendment for texas. did sandy hook affect your
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use on gun use it at all? caller: no. my heart goes out to the kids and families, but it does not change my views. host: the democratic senator from connecticut weighing in on a tweet this morning. this is chris murphy saying -- it is sandy hook we are using for our forced 45 minutes -- for our first 45 minutes. if you want to give us a call, -- here is stephen from new york, democrats line. caller: good morning.
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view i have in light of the new town -- the newtown slaughter is this -- the death of all these children and the thousands more to come is an indictment on every adult in this nation for giving up on the fight to protect our most vulnerable citizens from the profits of gum corporations and the lobbying agent, the nra. nightn any of us sleep at knowing we are impotent to protect our own children. i think we should all be ashamed. aboutwhat did they congressional efforts and efforts from the white house, starting as early as this january trying to pass more stricter measures but nothing happening on the congressional side? muchn't know how the obama administration has from the gun industry.
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congress is completely bought. this nra organization has paid for this campaign. they are not going to help us anymore. dallas, texas, independent line. caller: hello. host: hello, you are on. , my views --host: it's best to talk to me and i listen to the television. my views have changed. i grew up with my grandparents carrying guns. i believe that if we have gun control here that the people
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from our side [indiscernible] my views are education is more portent. it should be done from the cradle. host: wasn't sandy hook that changed your thinking? -- was it sandy hook that changed your thinking? caller: not really. that -- we have to educate and control the citizens we can take all the precautions and towns of education, preventing the mentally ill people who are bent on violence
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and control that and set of controlling the guns. host: robert lambert from twitter -- comments are available to you as well on our facebook page. many of you started last night into this morning creek yours wayne from louisiana on our republican line. i don't even think the second amendment should be discussed. we have a right to keep and bear arms. we have a bunch of commies in washington. rights andour gun our guns, this country is going to be -- look what happened in germany. all ofat happened in these communist countries were
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people lost their guns. don't people have any sense? host: what about these mass shootings? caller: we have had mass shootings for years and years. i don't hear about those children that were murdered, not a word was sent that was said about them. these is is a ploy to use 20 kids to disarm the people of this country and make everybody feel like they are guilty of something. the we are talking about second amendment. people need to wake up. the white house wants to disarm the people of this country because we have a communist running the country. says carol off of twitter --
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tim from michigan, democrats line. caller: i wanted to bring up the point that a ar-15 cost one grand to to grant and you can't 5.56 ammo on the shelves anymore. adam lanza was a poor little rich kid. think about that. host: how does that factor into the larger issue of gun control issues? i own guns myself but i would have to dust them off, haven't touched them for decades. i don't hunt anymore. i'm kind of middle-of-the-road on it. host: you mentioned adam lanza. the people -- the reason we have
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--ase the question this way as a factor into your thinking at all? i think about it a lot. i sure as heck don't want to shoot anybody. they're going to have to be threatening me on my property with something to get bullets shot at them. host: what kind of gun laws are in your state? guys with permits to carry concealed weapons shoot each other dead in grand rapids over road rage. host: do you need licensing and what is that process like? caller: i bought mine so long ago. their patient -- they are ancient. changed your views have
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since sandy hook, we have -- we invite you to give us a call. that is our first topic of discussion. we will carry on with to law enforcement professionals in our next segment. there are the numbers -- it was the majority leader of the senate talking about the .andy hook anniversary efforts [video clip] >> -- raising awareness of gun violence and mental health issues in the country. i met with them on a number of occasions. they are brave in the face of a heinous event. am proud of health -- of how
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hard my conference fought this year. 85% of the american people agree with us. with a severeeone mental illness and be a criminal -- with a severe mental illness and is a criminal be able to a purchase a gun? i am personally happy with my vote to keep military style weapons and large ammunition off the streets and to improve a mental health stating that -- mental health safety net. is shameful the united states senate cannot pass and safety legislation to protect our most vulnerable citizens. our kids, our children, our babies. i told thent, families of the 26 citizens killed a year ago and the 172
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december 14,ince 2012, that the government will not give up on them. victimsot give up the -- give up on the victims of the 26 school shootings that has happened since the new town massacre. gun to man came with a step forward to save the children, a teacher. he was killed. two others were injured in that. a movie theater in colorado, a sikh temple in wisconsin. gun owners of america put out a press release in light of the sandy hook anniversary.
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they say this -- that is from the gun owners of america. your thoughts on gun control, has a changed since sandy hook. lloyd is from virginia on our republican line. caller: good morning. i think these gun free places is a problem.
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the teachers should be trying to carry a gun. , he would haveun been afraid of what would happen to him. you cannot legislate against evil. harry reid and the democrats do not have a conscience. there were 60 million babies in 60 million babies killed in america last year in america -- killed in america last year. they don't care about that. they will vote for it every time. they just go ahead and let it happen and they can put a stop to it if they wanted to. from lou fromhear highland park illinois. unfortunately i think the only answer is that america becomes a semi-police state.
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what is happening in new york with stop and frisk, i agree with that. i think that has to occur all over the country. should the government pay people to snitch on other people who have guns and give them cash rewards. what is happening in our country. i can't imagine being a parent who sends their kids school everyday and worries that the kid may not come home. caller, who said to give teachers guns, is totally ridiculous. imagine a teacher walking around with a loaded 32 on their waist, they have to worry about that gun every single second so that kid does not steal it from them. give ridiculous to teachers guns. you always held those
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views, have they changed recently or overtime? theer: they have changed coast of gun violence now, we have close to 300 shootings per day in america. we are becoming almost like a war zone and people do not realize it. i think the executive part of government has to step up. here's what i have to say in all of theseter shootings you see hundreds and hundreds of government people rushed the schools with ambulances and police cars and helicopters. the shooting is over. bring government into play before the shooting starts. a graphic from "the washington post" this morning -- 91 victims of children across the united states, 47 of those
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being shot in home, 20 at school , 10 in a car, seven at a playground or parked, and seven in other places. it shows where in the united states the shootings took place. another graphic right next to it .akes a look at the killers in 63 deaths, the shooter had mental health issues and that random violence and drive-by took 22 deaths in the other category. amber from texas, thank you for waiting. i am not quite sure if my views have changed since. i hate when anyone gets hurt.
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what gun laws we can possibly in force to help this stop. is going to kill or hurt someone, they're going to do it regardless of whether it is a gun or knife or machete or chainsaw. maybe if we have an active some kind of background check, some kind of something to limit -- anything we can possibly do. i know you cannot enforce a bunch of things on people. but maybe some kind of chemical and allen's check -- chemical -- i don't know if that is too much work. maybe it is too much -- maybe it is worth it.
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i am not sure what we can do. maybe work on confidence in children. stop people from ," or "youou are this are that." and know theyrong don't have to go hurt someone. child is doing certain things that are not normal, the pair needs to do things for the children. host: dennis amber from michigan. off of e-mail -- -- that was amber from michigan. off of e-mail --
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john is from michigan, republican line. to the point, my view has not changed on that. i have a couple of things i would like to address. first is the mental health issue. here, state alone probably about 30 years ago, we had a system where people were mentally incompetent or needed help. the streetsken off because of political correctness -- off the street. because of political correctness that has ended. a lot of these people are back
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on the streets. a lot of these people have mental issues. then they talk about the assault rifles and how many have been used in some of these killings are you take a look at a shotgun, a shotgun is the most deadly weapon that there is. shotgun,uckshot in a in five seconds on a three shot shotgun you can put 45 projectiles out there that will cover 50 foot. the shotgun is the most deadly weapon there is. this assault weapon is just a bunch of bs. where these killings are taking place are in the inner cities.
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most of this is happening in the black neighborhoods. it is so politically correct in our country, nowadays, that we will not address that because we with address that problem blacks on blacks. from our facebook poll, as far as your views changing, only 30 people say their views have changed. 270 people say their views have not changed. 282 comments. larry from citizen -- from tennessee. caller said first something about gun owners were more respectful and compliant. i don't think that applies to any of those shootings. you cannot take guns to school, those people were not compliant.
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man was created in the image of god. -- whyuld you believe would you believe jesus had a nine millimeter on the small of his back. is phallic replacement therapy. they're born without an appendage and they think arming themselves will somehow make them a man. hyattsville, maryland. caller: i have changed since sandy hook and stuff. we are shooting each other too much. host: what changed your thinking --o -- your thinking echo your thinking? caller: is too dangerous out there. several papers stories this morning --
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she is going to be the director of white house's strategy, saying she is a well-regarded political policy and strategist. she will take over as the white house director of legislative affairs. her promotion will not be the last change in the white house. the president has brought former legislative director's in for a temporary assignment. that is "the washington post" this morning. vienna is up next. caller: thank you for taking my call. you pose an interesting question. i am a guy kissing
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psychotherapists -- i am a practicing psychotherapist. sandy hook did affect my family. i have a son in the army. he is going to afghanistan. here is the thing. hasn't been outlined clearly or defined by the administration or anyone is what are the written -- what are the restrictions? what i am hearing is they are taking away people's gun control rights. it seems like they are limiting the individuals that have the rights to have the weapons. in some cases i totally agree with that.
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specifically inner cities that have individuals that do not have registered rights to these firearms. where peopleareas do haunt and enjoy their firearms, we are not having these problems predominantly. have't think anyone i observed or listened to has whatively made the case of is really going on. are they taking away the weapons? are they regulating the weapons? we live in a very small community. we have to have our kids -- we have to go up and ring a doorbell to get our kids in school this morning. it takes time to be able to do that. host: how old are your children?
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caller: i have a 20-year-old in the army and a 10-year-old and a six-year-old. a fourth grader and a first grader. it is a very small school they attend. a sense ofey have gun violence issues. i don't know how much you shield them from this kind of story. caller: yes. when sandy hook -- it was all over the news. you couldn't shield your kids from that. i think they had some counselors at the school who talk to them about gun violence. they put up these doorbells and devices at schools. it was frightening. it was frightening for me. one of the callers asked what
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are we doing when we are sending our kids to school not knowing if we are going to see them again. host: what goes through your mind when you think about the mental health aspects of the situation? ought to berly we able to look at some obvious characteristics of anyone that is isolating themselves. what i heard, just reports -- i don't watch the and that i am an internet person. -- i am not an internet person. that would be one of those characters and semaphore. host: we are going to hear from michael for michigan on the democrats line. to addressould like a couple of colors that had been on before, hopefully to tamper down some paranoia. nobody is going to come and take
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away your guns. if it were up to me, we would round up every single gun in the country, melt them down, turn them into hubcaps. nobody is coming to take away anybody's guns. the second amendment is solid. all we are asking is to consider gun safety and who is obtaining guns. i know people like to hunt, that is fine and everything. the minute talking about a shotgun the most deadly weapon. that may be true but you cannot i 100 round-robin's and shoot that out of the harsh -- out of a shotgun. what that means expanded background checks, how would that work out? caller: let me back up from that point and say that the second amendment, in my view, has been abused. when it was written, the types
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of weapons that were available muskets typeading guns. just like many other issues, whether it is internet or guns, there are a lot of issues that the constitution addresses but had no idea about what technology was going to do. the internet is a good example. the internet is terrific but it for provides a resource pedophiles to troll for little kids or whatever. there are things that the -- theution is constitution protects, for sure. i think we need to have a serious discussion about what is appropriately covered by the constitution. it was thomas jefferson who said we should have a constitutional tovention every 20 years
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revisit how things are working out with regard to the constitution. i think that is a good idea. it is going to make a lot of people unhappy -- may be some constitutional rights are expanded, maybe some contracted. i think there is something to be about comparing technology and the advances of technology and how the constitution addresses some of those things. host: that is michael in michigan waiting and on his thoughts. -- weighing in on his thoughts. you can participate on the lines and phase look -- on the lines and on face book. from twitter -- here is joseph from texas, independent line. caller: thank you for taking my
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call. my views on guns have not changed. it is always a tragedy when children have to die needlessly from some people with mental health issues. you hear a lot of that from some of these callers that really do not have the information. it is not an issue of political correctness. it is an issue of government policy when reagan became president, he is laminated all of the mental health and the institutions that were helping some of these people. i am a veteran. up ifd give my weapons they were able to keep weapons out of everybody's hands.
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as long as my children are in my house, i will definitely have -- have a means to protect my kids. host: how hard is it to get a weapon in texas? caller: it depends on where you are. it is relatively easy. they do a stringent background check when you go to some of the big names -- the big-name stores. fbi will put you through an acheron check right on the spot. some places you always hear it is easier to procure weapons. it is not that cut and dried. the issue is how much your local
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or state government is willing to capitulate to the second amendment. a lot about the nsa in the newspapers the past month. here is from "the washington post" -- from virginia, next call.
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since sandy hook, it has changed my views. since all the shootings, i have now caught in concealed carry. everyone around me is protected. what is it like that you do this day after day the echo -- after day? affairs -- ct your yes.r: i'm always looking at the situation.
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i know that i can protect the people around me and myself and my family, whether it is in the house or out in public. what was the process of getting a concealed carry permit? caller: they do background checks signed off by -- host: what was the length of time? caller: it was a while back. maybe a month? host: that was jensen from virginia. from "the wall street journal", a story about iran. the headline says -- it says one more call on this topic.
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this is jack on the independent line. host: you will get it down to zero. it is a matter of personal responsibility. i think we need extremely strict gun registration laws. motor vehicles have serial numbers, guns have serial numbers. they ought to all be registered in a national database. every once who wants a permit to get a registration on the firearms should go through extensive training.
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i own shotguns, they are in a locked safe. i have been asking people about gun laws in the state and how difficult it is to get a gun. what is it like in your state? caller: i don't know. i don't have a carry permit or a side arm. you have to get a carry permit and you have to go down to the police department and register forward. what are the purchasing i purchasedaller: for my relative and a neighbor. i have not purchased weapons any route i go through. we will continue on the
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topic of gun issues. we are going to talk with two members of law enforcement and with members who deal with this kind of issue. withll have a discussion efforts from congress and on the state level. later on we will talk about the breakdown -- give you a breakdown of the two-year budget deal passed by the house and what it means politically for those supporting and opposing it. to continue on our subject, the president using his weekly radio address, talking about the event of sandy hook and what it means for his administration. here he is. >> from the beginning, our efforts were led by the parents of newtown, men and women who and hope to spare
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others of their heartbreak. your joined by millions of americans, mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, who refused to accept these acts of violence as somehow inevitable. over the past year their voices have sustained us. their example has inspired us to be better parents and better children, to give our everything they need to face the world without fear. to meet the responsibility not only of our families and our commute -- of our families but our communities. on this anniversary of the day we will never forget, that is the example we should continue to follow we have not yet done enough to make our communities and our country safer. keepve to do more to dangerous people from getting their hands on a gun so easily. we have to do more to heal troubled minds. we have to do everything we can to protect our children from harm and make them feel blue -- and make them feel loved and valued and cared for.
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of the factose set that real change won't come from washington, it will come the way from you,ays come, from the american people. as a nation we cannot stop every act of violence and we cannot heal every troubled mind. if we want to live in a country where we can go to work, send our kids to school, and walk our streets free from fear, we have to keep trying. host: it is this year anniversary of the shootings the shooting of that took place at sandy hook elementary school which brings us to a discussion, taking a look at gun related issues. we are joined by two law enforcement professionals who deal with these issues on a regular basis, not only in their daily jobs but with the associations they are related with. joining us from minneapolis on the right of your screen is richard stanek, he is
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president of the sheriffs association. in the studio is tom manger of the chiefs association. he serves as legislative chair. welcome. stanek, let me start with you. onlyhave we learnt not from the incident but on the topic of gun control and related issues? both the chief and i would be remiss if we didn't express our condolences again back out to the families of sandy hook in the community for all they have gone through this past year. everybody in this country is thinking about what happened. i think overall, the issue of gun control, the issue of mental -- there have been robust discussions both in state legislatures and in congress and across our communities and
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across america. i think that is a good thing. some progress has been made, maybe not as much as we should have made. you are on the right track and i look forward to getting some good things done. progress,ifically to what kind of things did you want to see happen as far as progress is concerned? caller guest: we are very candid. we had a chance to meet with president obama and vice president. we talked about mental health and that folks who suffer from severe mental health should never have access to guns. state houses across this country and in congress, we have made some progress. presidentvice announced $100 million for additional mental health funding going back out to the states. that will help us move forward. host: mr. manger, same question. guest: i think the glass is half
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empty, perhaps. think we have made the progress we should have made. if there was ever a wake-up call -- and there have been dozens and dozens of wake-up calls throughout the years that we needed to do something in terms of gun safety in this country. sandy hook was the epitome, in my view, of now is the time to act. congress failed the american people. they did nothing. in my view there are some in the common sense things that could have been done. i grew with the sheriff, probably the biggest issue is we fail to connect the dots between an individual who has mental illness and their ability to purchase a gun. there are other commonsense sense sort of things that congress could have done that the american people overwhelmingly supported,
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universal background checks and a host of other things. congress did nothing. universal background checks being one, assault weapons being another -- that was brought up by the president. what are you and your association standing -- where are you and your association standing on these issues? all those jurisdictions, the police chiefs have supported the assault weapons ban. they supported the ban of high- capacity magazines. it goes further than that. we have looked at things like armor coated ammunition. there are certain things that the military and law enforcement have a need for. having them out in general public serves no purpose.
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i have been listening to some of the callers this morning. i don't know of any position where the shares are police chiefs have taken that would take guns out of the hands of people who hunt, use them for recreation and sport -- we are not try to take guns away from everybody, we're just trying to institute some commonsense measures that would keep our community safer. that is my interest and the interest of every police chief in this country, heaping the neighborhoods and communities they serve safer. host: sheriff stanek, what about those issues of high-capacity magazines? chief manger talked about these kinds of issues. where does your organization stand on the side -- on these kind of things. the major county sheriff's association, the opposite and somewhat -- the
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opposite in some of the others. we do not support a ban on high- capacity magazines. we agreed on mental health and agreed on a number of other issues moving forward. the major county sheriff's association felt that gun control, in itself, would not solve the complex problems of extreme gun violence across the country that is happening each and every day. the secondot impose amendment rights on law-abiding citizens to solve the problem. that is where congress and the legislative across this country have to figure out where they can come together and to some bridge to reduce extreme gun violence in our community. you can ask them questions , here's how you can do so --
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you can send us tweets and e- mails. talk about the federal effort. it was right after the sandy hook shooting in december. a couple of them include background checks on all gun sales, it would include banning military style assault weapons and more school resource officers in school and increase access to health services. because you're both with an association that comes to washington on a regular basis, we use surprised at the end of the day or at least at the end of the year that not many of these efforts to lace, especially in congress. i was very surprised. i understand the assault weapons ban is a controversial thing. what about universal background
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checks? what is controversial about that? a backgroundequire check when a licensed firearm dealer is making a transaction -- yet you can go to a gun show where millions of guns are sold every year and no background check is done. sense measuresn that the public overwhelmingly supports. it is very frustrating. host: sheriff stanek? guest: that is a great question. what we told congress leaders and the president and vice , thedent when asked sheriffs were very direct, we talked about axis two mental health records for law enforcement. we would like to have the resources to be able to help. thealked extensively about criminal background check system --asmonly known as next nix.
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secondly are the adjudicated mental health records that are public. overwhelmingly more than one half of the states in this country were not putting those mental health records into that database. in my state alone, 67,000 records are missing. toh and every day people go the local chief of police, request a purchase -- a permit to purchase a handgun or carry a concealed firearm. i think the american public -- there was that dirty little secret out there. congress will continue to address it and we feel very strongly about that. the third one was the aggressive prosecution of gun law violations, straw purchases, etc.. great progress by finally installing the director of the alcohol, tobacco, and decades bureau, after a
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of being without a leader to direct the policy. we take a look at gun violence relating to video games and movies. i see it each and every day. idea of universal background checks, where does the organization fall? our individual sheriffs are elected from the counties i which we come from. there wasn't a position across the board on universal background checks. some sheriffs quoted them, some did not. we tend to focus on things that bring us together instead of dividing us. you heard from richard ofnek, the sheriff huntington county. by the chiefoined of police of montgomery county maryland. he is been doing that since 2004. oath of these gentlemen with
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associations that represent their various positions. we will go to a couple of calls and follow-up with each of the gentleman. j is from louisville, kentucky on the independent line. good morning. as far as mental illness, it is a good idea they should have -- they should not have access to firearms. witheople who disagree them politically are mentally ill. that is my only comment. we addressed mental illness issues but both of you, talk about the money that was offered to the white house, $100 million. how does it play out in your states, especially when it comes to doing your job? guest: i agree we have failed to connect the dots on the mental health issue. when there is no database check -- that is going be the toughest issue for this country to deal with. people believe those mental
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illness issues and treatment issues are very private. >> if you look at shootings around the country, mental illness is more often than not a player in these issues. with regard to the money, i absolutely support officers. we have a school resource officer in every high school in montgomery county. they provide for a safer environment for the kids to learn. so, i think that there is plenty to spend the money on. do we have the wherewithal to make -- strengthen some of these laws? weakening thet second amendment. remember, it is not an unfettered right. you cannot have a fire in a theater.
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that is not an unfettered right. it could be seen as an unfettered right here it there need to be limited -- there need to be limitations. keep that out of the hands of criminals. that is money well spent. weighted legislation to strengthen that. host: sheriff? guest: i think that we are talking about the background checks and everything that goes into that. the vice president did a very good job with $100 million going back to the states to help with mental health. that is something that we have talked about from day one. we believe that we have an access problem. people with severe mental access -- illness should never have access to firearms. host: what about what chief manger brought up? we had people tweeting in that maybe it is time to revisit.
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especially in light of today's up-to-date -- bring it up-to- date. guest: i think that we leave that up to the supreme court. sheriff do not make public policy. we enforce it. we also advocate for public policy. as do the chiefs of police. as far as interpreting the second amendment, we leave that up to the supreme court rid i am a law enforcement officer. i will enforce the law. here is mark from massachusetts. republican line. caller: i appreciate that viewpoint. it is good that he wants to protect my rights. wanted to basically discuss the overall founders of our country. when they discussed the second amendment. clearly, every year someone
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mentioned that no one was trying to take away hunting rights. it has nothing to do with hunting rights. it was really about having a final check put in place. otherid not cancel each out. building up pockets of immense power. we're starting to see a little bit of that. thatinal check would be the citizens could keep everyone honest. that is what it is about. it is not about hunting or anything like that. it is really about checking the government and making sure they are not out of control. start,o you want to sheriff stankek? if you go back to the second amendment, we enforce the constitution of the land as it stands.
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i think a lot of progress has been made this past year with the seraphs -- sheriffs focusing on the root of the industry -- issue. secondly, we're helping to shore up the infrastructure that we have. that is the national background check system. there are gaping holes that existed and still exist today. individuals who want to purchase firearms or carry firearms -- we can obviously get into a discussion about the founding fathers and what they were trying to accomplish. giving thet as citizens the ability to fight back against the government. i am not sure that an armed citizen is what we oppose. that is now all we try to do in this country.
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that those discussions are fine to have. i am just trying to address things like when someone has a gun stolen. there is no requirement to report that theft. -- more common sense things that we should focus on. we can make our communities safer. we can address internet sales of ammunition. somebody ought to show up and buy a munition. the fact that you can have anybody get on the internet and get thousands of rounds of ammunition, there is something wrong with that. there's something unsafe about that. theas nothing to do with second amendment. it has everything to do with the safety of our communities. we need to make sure they are not in the wrong hands. host: is that better handled on
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a state or federal level? guest: i think it is better handled on the federal level because then you have consistency. i do believe that the states ought to be able to do things that are best for their state. for example, these concealed carry laws. i know that there are folks who support this notion that if you have a concealed carry permit, you should be able to carry one everywhere in the united dates. i can tell you that the chiefs of police oppose that. the states have different standards and different background checks. what works for one state should not be opposed for every other state in the union. in some ways, i think we need to make sure that the states retain their ability to have control over these issues. on the other hand, things like
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havenal background checks the agencies have been so weekend by the gun law. they're limited in terms of enforcement. they're holding people with licenses accountable. we need to -- those things need to be strengthened. host: we will get your thoughts in a moment. here is derek in greenville, south carolina. democratic line. caller: how are you? i was just wondering, how do you keep labeling these people as mental -- something is wrong with them? they have enough sense to go on the internet and order them and plan everything that they are doing until they want to shoot themselves. everyone says there's something wrong with them. host: we have already addressed
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the mental aspects. if you want to comment, go ahead. guest: two things, as you pointed out it is not law enforcement that labels them as mentally ill. the numbers speak for themselves. there were nine mass shooting's across this country. sufferedthose nine from mental on this. treated or untreated. 2013, at least seven instances, including the most recent one in the navy shipyard. 13 people died. there are indications that that individual suffered from mental on this. to go back to the chief manger point -- i agree with effective leadership. that is what we need. whole generally believe in state rates.
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rather than the federal government deciding what is best for its people, but right back to the states. host: let me ask you both the question. i think that every gun in america should be registered. it should not be a problem if you are responsible. do you agree with that? guest: i think that a large part of that is probably true. go into purchase a firearm and you have the background check done, that is exactly what happens. those go through the background check system. individuals go through the background check system. you are talking about the guns that are picked up illegally. or the guns that are stolen of someone's home. they are used illegally. that is a whole other piece.
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it is our job as law enforcement officers to reduce gun violence in our communities. cities, all of our major counties -- role, metro, urban. we see gun violence. it is our job to curtail the violence. good legislation and effective leadership in getting the job done -- guest: does your association indoor legislation? individuals, our differing constituencies do not have a position on them. manger?ief guest: we have not taken a position on comprehensive legislation. weapons arealt going to be sold and manufactured, there should be better track of that.
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if someone makes a purchase of an automatic weapon, or an assault weapon, that should be registered. what is more important is that transactions -- all transactions and not just those done by federal -- those done at gun shows and trunks of cars, all need to be registered. they need to be made public. made available to law enforcement. we need to keep track of where these are going. through these transactions. that is not done. host: our guest is joining us for the hour. we're talking about issues of gun control. they are members of law enforcement. they also represent associations and talk about these kind of issues. the numbers are on your screen.
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guests are joining us. tom manger is here in d.c. ands our legislative chair the chief of police in montgomery county, maryland. richarding us live is stanek. talk about your associations and why they take the positions that they do. withre dealing more localities. does that change or affect the way that your organizations or the positions that they take? guest: go ahead. guest: i know that for the major cities chiefs association, we represent large, urban cities. the crime issues that we deal moreare generally a little
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big issues than these other jurisdictions. so, as we look at the number of homicides that we deal with and we look at the number of , it is a and robberies big issue for us. that is why the major city chiefs association has such a nice cash and interest in the legislation. and specifically, assault weapons? guest: in addition, as i mentioned before, there is a requirement -- there is no requirement that if you have a gun and it is stolen, you report that. these are the kind of things that when we investigate, we investigate shootings and part of that is tracing the gun back. where it came from and those
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kind of things. what we're finding is that these guns are stolen and never reported. gettingvidual ends up ammunition from the internet. they would not have been able to go to a licensed dealer and purchase it legally. these are the kinds of things that as we investigate crimes, and our communities, these are the kinds of things that we're finding. this is how we want to address them legislatively. host: sheriff stanek? guest: there are 3200 sheriffs across this country. the major county sheriff's association represents the largest offices across the country. each of the major cities that share manger is talking about is located within the county. are representing a populace
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itself. i represent residents here in arizona. law enforcement agencies within my county. we work in tandem together every day to reduce gun violence across our county and our neighboring counties. at the end of the day, i think that is the difference. -- weople we represent are elected. that makes a difference to the populace. host: california on our independent mind. caller: i want to talk to you about something that has bothered me for a long time. again? caller: have you ever heard bill of attainder? host: no, what is that. caller: that is in the constitution.
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it says that when you penalize ,he person for who they are what they have done in the past, instead of what they do now -- you cannot make penalties later on. all of that is bill of attainder. it is illegal and egregious. host: and how does that relate to the gun issue? caller: they're passing background checks. they are based on bill of attainder. host: the guests can respond as they wish. tost: it is important for us look at an individual's past. especially if they have a criminal history. if they have been involved in gun crime in the past, it is just common sense. right tonments have a
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limit their ability to own or possess a firearm. host: doug on the republican mine. caller: thank you. thank you both for your service. laws, as the gun control anyone that uses a gun like a sandy hook -- it is a mental issue. right off the bat. no sane person goes and does what they do. -- shooting at the theater he went to two theaters prior that allowed concealed weapons. the one that he chose was one that did not allow guns in the theater. agenciesenforcement are for concealed weapons. they know the people have a weapon. there's a possibility they have a weapon. you cannot keep guns out of the
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hands of people who are criminals. look at the gun laws. toy have more illegal sales people who should not be carrying guns. law-abiding citizens do not go out and purposely kill people. they defend themselves and they have a right to defend themselves. i am ready -- retired military. i believe in our constitution. i do not believe the supreme court has the right to do that. the news media is using their influence to put up things. i cannot understand how anyone could sit there and say that the majority of people want this. love holder they use? host: ok. if you want to respond to that. guest: i think the caller just opened it up further. the guns kill people or is it the individuals? the gun is an instrument of the crime. this is been a long-standing
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debate. what we look to is reducing gun violence. across this country, and each of our communities. some laws are effective, some are not so much. we always look to the constitution first and foremost to give us guidance. host: chief? guest: when you look at the shootings that occur throughout the country, i would say that 99.9% of them are part of a crime. they are not defending themselves. i understand that law- abiding citizens are permitted to carry weapons and carry concealed weapons, that is not what we are concerned about. what we are concerned about is that crimes are used in violent crime throughout our city. host: the new york times
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highlighted that. there were gun laws passed since newtown. this was out of 1500 that were considered. what did your state do about gun laws and have there been significant changes in your state? guest: i do not believe there have been significant, changes in maryland. i will tell you that in many cases some of these gun laws were passed were fielded measures. they had no impact in terms of the ability to keep the community safer. the sheriff and i talked about what is needed. those are the tough ones. those are when people are -- they do not necessarily agree on universal background checks. we have not made any progress there. that is a significant area where
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we need to make progress. some of this feel-good legislation that has been passed has no impact. host: such as? guest: i do not know all of the laws that are passed. but look at some of the obscure statutes. they make the folks on the, wille feel better or they terrorists not allow to own guns. that sounds good and everyone can get behind them. in effect, i am not sure how much impact that will have. host: sheriff stanek? guest: each state in this country started out by discussing legislation surrounding the assault weapons bans. my state in minnesota was no different.
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months words -- five from january to may discussing it. what we did get done in minnesota was tightening up the mental health records. we were one of those states that egregiously did not submit our adjudicated mental health records on a federal basis. shame on us for that. we cleaned that up. we found records from 1994 to 2010. they have never been submitted. in our state, we have concealed permit holders. we are going through putting those records into the database. where checking to see if any of those currently have a permit to carry. the next call is isaiah from chandler, arizona. democratic line. caller: i really like what was
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just said. that is the clear difference. i believe that the virginia tech actually mentally adjudicated, unstable. shop and bought a firearm. his witness was not in the system. that should happen on a national and state-level. a state refuses to submit mental health records. the funding should be withheld. i hope that they will feel that they have to collect -- otherwise, they will be -- tweeton top of that, a
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says that we cannot predict criminality. how can we predict mental illness? chief manger? guest: i will tell you that it gets back to the debate about guns and the person. out,e sheriff has pointed you look at all of these mass shootings. the vast majority of them -- mental illness is the limit that we deal with. you could say that in 100% of the cases, the guns are what they were dealing with. a gun in and of itself is not the problem. it is the person who is old and the gun. if you have someone with a propensity for violence, if you could show that because they have a criminal past -- if you a mentalone who has illness, we need to find a way -- i applaud minnesota for
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tightening that. there are folks in the mental health field who are passionate about the fact that these folks deserve the right to privacy. the vast majority of those folks would never go out and commit these atrocities. again, it is not an easy issue to deal with. ignoring it is not the solution either. host: let me just -- guest: can i clarify one thing. i am talking about those who are adjudicated by a judge in a court. i am not talking about those who seek counseling because someone in their family died. or someone with drug and alcohol addition where they seek treatment. i am talking about public mental health records. someone may have been alleged to have committed a crime. they could not stand trial because of their mental health capacity or lack thereof.
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the judge orders the mensch treatment. that is a publicly adjudicated mental health problem. host: the bureau of justice for 2011 says that criminal 7200 or so are done by handguns. why do we hear so much about rifles when handguns are a major cause? guest: think that the assault that raisesa topic great feelings on both sides of the issue. assault weapons should be limited to the military and law enforcement should have no for residentsson to own or have them. often focus on the rifles and the assault weapons that have the ability to have a lot of
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ammunition and discharge quickly. what the chiefs of police know all over the country is that handguns are what are behind most of our homicides. host: sheriff stanek? guest: i agree. cheap handguns are behind most of our violence. the issue of to assault weapons, people need to define what that means. when i think of an assault weapon, and think about a fully automatic weapon. what the chief indicated was that the military has access. we do not see fully how to make weapons. we do see long guns and semi automatic weapons. you have to pull that trigger each and every time. weapons getsault wrapped around a lot of different things. people need to define what that is. at the end of the day, it is the
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handguns that cause the most harm. most of those handguns that we see are being taken out of people's homes and out of their cars. there burglarized out of gun stores. they are not purchased at a background at a gun show or other places. host: for both of you, how easy is it to get a weapon in minnesota? guest: i think it is pretty difficult. this afternoon, i happen to go to a gun show. i took a couple of our state legislators. they want to talk about universal background checks. i want them to go with nancy with the shows are about. what they look like and who are the people there. can you really just walk up to a table and say i would like to buy a nine millimeter and they will hand it over the counter for $400 without a background check. i do not believe that happens each and every day. i know it does not happen in minnesota. we estimate that 90% of the guns
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sold at these gun shows do go through a background check. it is about individual states when they organize these background checks. they require this to be done there. ffl is a federal firearm licensed dealer. guest: in the washington region, all you have to do is go to the state of virginia. the guns are easy to purchase. there are thousands of transactions occurring every day. background checks are not run on those transactions. i think it is very easy to get a gun in this region. again, if we can make those universal background checks your requiresry transaction
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a background check. that is a huge step forward. overwhelmingly support that. it makes sense to do it. host: here is tim from indianapolis. independent line. noter: the constitution is going to protect you and your families. if someone breaks in, you need to defend yourself. it is not the size of the weapon and how many rounds are in the clip. ,hat it boils down to is sometimes you have to judge people. that may be a questionable thing. the end result is, what was the last time that someone opened up a firearm at again show? there will be repercussions immediately. understand thei school situation. gun crimes are committed by pistols. we know it. you will not stop people's actions. do not knowckly, i
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if that would've happened in the movie theater if i had been there. if those were the kind of shootings we dealt with, we may not have the position that we have taken. that is not what we're dealing with. , it we're dealing with comes from folks who possess guns who should not have guns in their hands in the first place. they purchase them in a manner that does not require a background check. dore are things that we can to make it tougher. as long as there are people who are dishonest, we will never get 100%. i can tell you that there are laws that we can pass to make it tougher for these criminals to get their hands on guns. host: sheriff stanek? guest: the sheriffs want to focus on the enforcement side of
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it. there are a lot of laws on the books. when was the last time that a purchaser was vigorously prosecuted or reverse sting operations? that side of it. we rely on our prosecutors. we prosecute those crimes and we think that the american public believes that that is happening already. the fact of the matter is, it simply is not to the degree that it should. askedwe have someone who about better security. i assume that he talks about schools. talk about that and about the influence. we are a gun free zone. i believe that when some locality has this, it is a feel- good measure. it may allow for catching doeone with a firearm, but i
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not think it is making our community safer. when i think about them security, i think about things like could we require that someone purchased a gun and go through a safety course? common sense measure. i have had folks say to me that you say that because you get to carry a gun and you have for 36 years. i have, but i would tell you that if every individual had to go through this battery of background that i went through, the safety training that i have had over the last 36 years -- i would say that everyone could have a gun. the fact is, that is not the case. you give folks the do not know how to handle a gun. they cannot retain a gun safely. about the callers talked protection in her home. we still have as many cases uses a gun for
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protection and had that taken away from them. when you talk about security, all of those issues -- we can address administratively or legislatively required gun safety courses. a lot of states have done them. those are good, solid measures. they have prevented accidental shootings. host: sheriff? guest: overall, in the one year since this tragic shooting, over the last few years, we have seen another seven plus mass shooting. many hundred more murders. these are all results of firearms. i merrily, handguns. the american public needs to have a robust discussion about them control. these are second amendment rights. we had that same discussion. the chief center of have years and years of wisdom and experience.
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37 years with chief manger. collectively, what we have told people is this -- there may be some divisive issues versus gun control, but the access to firearms -- people with severe mental on the should never have access to firearms. we should enforce the laws that we have on the books vigorously and keep guns out of the hands of those who are prohibited from owning them. guest: i agree with everything that he said. we can even strengthen some of those things as well. the alcohol, tobacco, and firearms -- if we had a representative here, they could talk about the things that they have done. they weakened their ability to enforce these laws. not ignore the fact that there is a strong lobby
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that teaches some of these things from being accomplished. is trying to take guns away from folks. we're trying to make the community safer. host: do you think that congressional efforts on guns legislation is over? -- do yourt with you think the administration has stopped on this issue? guest: no, i do not. i think they may be frustrated by lack of progress, but nothing happens easily. i considerprogress, what the vice president released the other day. $100 million toward mental health initiatives. listening to the sheriffs and police chiefs, some of the issues that we brought up, that are broken with the current system. primarily, the background check system. that is a good thing and i consider that progress.
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more progress to be made, but that is what the policy figures -- will figure out. --st: guest: he stated very well. i do not think the administration has given him. what i am hoping is that we will not have to have another shooting like we had at sandy hook. that would motivate congress to take some conch -- common sense act jim -- action. host: west virginia on the republican line. caller: i went through one of those tough training courses. it is called parris island. -- i do knowi have one at politically correct answer. what do you think about this in new york city? people talk about the constitution. not partident, he is
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of the constitution with immigration laws. the laws heuphold wants to hold and the ones he does not, he does not. let's be serious about this constitutional issue. host: both of you. guest: i will give you my honest opinions about this. this is a necessary tool for law enforcement. the key is training. training officers to know what they can do legally. what you need a legal foundation for. you need a legal foundation to iskp someone, to fr someone, and to search someone. copsf those issues that need to know exactly what they are allowed to do by law. the issues with stop and frisk -- you run into problems with
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officers who do not abide by the trading. they are violating the law. they violate the constitution by doing things that they do not have a legal foundation to do. if they do it right, it is a great cool for law-enforcement. people talk about profiling. racial profiling is wrong and illegal. it should never occur. criminal profiling absolutely is the way the cops do business. -- when profiling is done correctly, legally, and lawfully, that is what makes good cops good cops. that is how we can spot that guys and intervened before something occurs. your point is well taken. host: sheriff? guest: this is one of those occasions, like many others, where we agree. -- that isr said it exactly what the sheriffs believe. we do not believe in racial profiling. stop and frisk does have a
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place, but compassion and respect are the orders of the day. host: michael is from maryland on the democratic line. good morning gentlemen. thank you for taking my call. i'm a first-time caller and i love what you do here. chief manger, thank you for your service. you are my chief of police actually. let me first off start by saying that i completely agree with the social contract that john mark came up with. we give away our personal rights for overall safety to the government. that being said, when it comes arms, youht to bear the meetingook at that the raiders of the constitution had in mind. to avoid any kind of
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power by the government against the people. with mental health, it is a subjective term. what is crazy in this country is not crazy in a different country. -- ave a pretend it's the propensity toward violence. youright to bear arms -- cannot have people who want to go through -- shoot a school up. you cannot give them a rifle. host: let me have another call. roy from rochester, michigan. independent. caller: we know that the second amendment gives the right to keep and bear. it does not give the right to discharge the weapon. give law, it does not enforcement the right to remove the weapon. or deny a weapon from someone who is crazy. the founders thought it was more important for a person to be
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shooting a red coat. the question is for the law enforcement community -- what they like to see an amendment to the constitution that makes it clear that a person who is adjudicated could be mentally ill and not have the right to keep and bear arms? that is not the case currently. not sure we need an amendment. we just need a better background check to be able to identify those individuals. host: sheriff? guest: i agree with the chief. some legislation is what we need. host: what about school resource officers? what about community policing? could that change the game?
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in terms ofnk school resource officers, we had this discussion with the president and his administration. many of our counties and cities across the country have sros. they are armed. it was a few years ago that many --the schools in my state wanted the resource officers in blue jeans and covering up their firearms. they did not want the faculty to know who they were, just that there was a presence in the school. today, it is totally different. the resource officers are back in uniform, standing tall and proud. there near the front door. they want people to see them when they come in. it has changed dramatically. the training for law enforcement has resulted in mass shootings -- lessons learned. partnersrking with our
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to understand what motivates people to do this. what can we do better to prevent this? it relies on the citizens themselves. if you see something, say something. do not let it be the best kept secret. when someone goes through troubled times, let us know, so we can act effectively and stop it before it ever happens. guest: i am a huge supporter of school resource officers. they make for a safe learning environment for our kids. you have to select the right person for that job. is suited to be an sro. we have some traffic once in my department. community policing, you mentioned that. one of the things is partnership with community. if you have a community's trust and support, because you work with them day in and day out --
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you can accomplish great things. the sheriff mentioned if you see something, say something. if you are willing to communicate with the police when they see something that might be problem, could be a that is where community policing is important. everyone must be involved, not just police. host: the senate, as far as gun legislation, did renew a ban on plastic guns. is this a concern for your organization? guest: it is. technology is challenging us every day. we have something new that we have to deal with that we never had to deal with before. ops withad two c plastic guns. i saw a picture of the weapon. thank goodness my cops were professional and head restraint. deadwise, you would have a
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16-year-old as a result of a traffic stop. it was a huge concern. host: it was printed on a 3-d printer? guest: it was a replica gun. they are as dangerous as real guns in terms of the safety of the community. host: sheriff? guest: we do not have a position on plastic guns. we believe in pragmatic legislation. i think that we will not have a problem. talk about the influence of your organizations going forward. what are you looking for as far as washington? what would you advocate for most? guest: i think it is real simple. we will continue to do what we have done. we will be a voice on behalf of the citizens that we represent. control, we of gun do not believe that gun control will solve this complex problem.
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we see it each and every day. we should not impose on the rights of our citizens. leadershipbout the and pragmatic legislation. the answer to all of this relies on the citizens themselves. and their policymakers. what could we do to reduce gun violence in our community? we have given you suggestions and solutions. we have heralded congress for what they have done. we call on them to do more. host: chief manger? guest: when police chief come to washington, they have an overriding interest in reducing crimes and keeping nations -- community safe. one of the ways we can accomplish that is stopping things before they happen. it goes back to what the sheriff talked about. invest more money in mental health treatment.
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the local police chiefs have supported these preventive efforts and anything that we can the congress can do to invest in our children. fromn prevent them treating mental illness. those are great investments. that is our interest. host: you have heard from tom manger. also joining us is richard stanek. the both of you, inc. you. -- thank you. coming up, now that the house has passed a budget resolution, what is in the spending blueprint? lawder of reuters will explain when we continue. ♪
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me be very clear. this is a very delicate diplomatic moment. a chance to address peacefully one of the most pressing national servants -- concerns that the world faces today. implications of the potential of conflict. we are at a crossroads. we're at one of those hinge point in history. one path could lead to an concernsresolution and about iran's nuclear program. to other path could lead continued hostility and potentially to conflict. i do not have to tell you that these are high stakes. >> this weekend on c-span, secretary of state john kerry on why house members should not impose additional sanctions against iran. as talks continue on freezing parts of their nuclear program. watch this morning at 10:00.
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on c-span two, book tv. dick cheney and his longtime cardiologist talk about the former vice president's history with heart disease and recent advancements in cardiology. tonight at 11:00. on c-span three, some american history tv. a look at the free african american men and former slaves who fought for the union. sunday at 11:00 eastern. the heir to the throne, archduke frantz ferdinand and o on afe were in sarajev tour. it was a bad day for them to come because it was a holiday. serbia, the neighboring country, was furious at austria hungry for taking over bosnia. .here were young plotters they saw that the archduke was a
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symbol of oppression. they decided to kill him. it was very sloppy. there had been warnings that something was afoot. one of the conspirators shot him and his wife point blank. they both died. >> the assassination of archduke francis ferdinand and the events leading up to world war i. margaret met nolan, sunday night at 8:00. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us now is david lawder of reuters. we're talking about the budget deal passed in the house. what do both house -- sides get in the steel? guest: they get some peace on the budget debate. that is the spending levels that congress is supposed to determine every year. they determine how much to spend
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on discretionary programs and then pass the appropriations bills. they have not done that in three or four years now. 2009 was the last time that they did that. they have gone from crisis to threats.th shutdown what this does, in theory, they have a number for two years. it should minimize the threat of another shutdown. until october 2015. that is a bit of peace on one side. they claim that it will allow them to get back to regular order. they can get back to the way things should be done. they will pass the spending bills and get on with life. host: what are the major highlights of the bill? highlights arer that it takes the edge off of the sequester spending cuts. these cuts were put in place last spring.
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they are across the board and everyone says they are a bad way to cut spending. it is forces everyone to suffer. these will be a lot worse for 2014. especially for the military. they will take another big hit. so, it saves the military from having to go through that. it adds a little to the domestic side. so, there is a little bit more wiggle room to get spending bills passed. while it does not eliminate them, it does take the edge off. that has to be paid for. it is paid for with a number of different savings and revenue. there are things in there like airline transportation fees.
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when you buy a plane ticket, you will get a couple of dollars. up to $2.50 more than you would pay for your ticket. there are changes to pensions for both federal employees and for retired military. ace -- above working age, you get an increase. if you are a new employee, you will have to pay a little more of your income. like 1.3%. or your pension budget -- benefits. host: our guest is joining us to talk about the budget. if you have questions, the numbers are available. these numbers are on your screen. you can also reach out to us on twitter or e-mail. now andou spend more
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achieve some kind of deficit reduction? guest: that is the question that a lot of conservative groups are asking. it does increase spending now. that is the point of it. savings do not come until later years. a lot of things build up over time. especially when you talk about pensions. them, they start pay in a bit more. that takes a longer time. that are other parts of that are geared to later years. , pensions,iums student loan changes. these things build up over time. the way that congress determines their savings, they used something called a score. it is based over 10 years.
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a lot of people who are opposed to this deal say that those savings will never materialize. we will just spend the money now and change laws going down the road. we will never see those savings. talking 2020? guest: 2023, which seems like a long way away. side,as far as the senate do they have a plan of their own? correctly, republicans will have to join on the senate side to make this happen. guest: you may have some democrats in tight races. they want to feel like they have a better reelection chance. so, the people that we talked to yesterday, there were a fair number of republicans that were maybe not ready to say that they were for this yet.
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the attraction for them is that it provides relief to the military. they will face $20 billion in relief. that would put some major programs at risk. as will as the writing test and training. -- readiness and training. this gives them something to grab onto. it gives them some additional savings beyond sequester relief. about $23 billion. some people look at those proposed savings that may never materialize. that was one of the big selling points of this deal. place of this take the the budget control act? guest: that modified it.
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this was a bill that modified the budget control act. they have to get to work. they get to have their christmas vacation, like everybody else. we have had fiscal cliff. they do not get much up a break in the appropriations committees. they have to carve out these spending ties and come up with in appropriations bill. that covers the whole year in one go. or the domestic side in the military side. line,ave to go line by where they have to go through and decide what gets increased and what gets decreased. that is with difficult decisions that have to be made. we talked about the murray bill.
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yesterday,erviewing and that gets them thinking on the bill. huge event. was a logjam on getting away from these herky-jerky shutdown showdowns that we have been going through. but this is only the first step. the budget number that they came up with -- the appropriations numberees must take that and break it down into funding for each agency. before to do that january 15. that is when the current resolution runs out. bill have to pass that through both bodies and have it signed by the president by january 15. will implement the
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budget resolution that was agreed to yesterday by the house.
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caller: i do nothing compromise will do anything for the deficit. it might make it worse. as long as he federal reserve is -- spending $85 billion, it will not make a difference. guest: it will not do anything to reduce the deficit in a major way. dollars inm additional savings and compare a $17 trillion- debt, that is just a drop in the ocean. they left out big issues, the
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big tax and spending issues staying up been fighting over four years. they did not want to compromise the others' are supposed. they said, we are not going to raise taxes. we are not going to change tax breaks and loopholes to get revenue. the democrats said we will not make changes to programs like social security and medicare. think about where we might be able to agree on some things. there are various other bits and pieces. a debate for the future that will continue on. we will see if it shows up on the debt limit. we are going to need another increase in the debt limit. they are still buying bonds at
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$85 billion rates. the fed does.at they have indicated they will start tapering back. the economy is getting back to what they feel is a more normal growth rate. things that is interesting is some economists because it will eliminate some of the gridlock over the budget and the brinksmanship on the shutdown side, will help the economy grow a bit faster. in that sense, the economy takes off a bit and gets steam that will probably cause the fed to throttle back on its buying. luke from wisconsin --
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from wisconsin. we will go to rebecca. i watched and talked about it when they did it. we willcrats decided keep on with this government paying unemployment. the next day i heard on the floor one of the congresswomen saying we have got to bring that back up to a vote. are the democrats going to go back on everything they agreed to? this: what they agreed on deal was to leave the unemployment insurance extension out of it. these are the benefits that expire at the end of this year. long-term benefits for about 1.3 million americans have been extended the last couple of
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years. it goes back to the recession. democrats were not happy about this at all. they wanted it in the deal. .t was left out as a last minute, republicans put in a provision to keep the medicare ramin rate the same for the next few months. rates thee payment same for the next few months. they filed to come back after to comes -- they vowed back after christmas and do something retroactively. that is another fight we are going to have after the first of the year. host: from mississippi on the republican line. you are on. go ahead. caller: how can we ever stop the spending if we don't shut down the government and stop these cost overruns?
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military -- i am a former military. how are you going to stuff the spending overruns on contracts with the military if they don't stop so much spending? that has been the debate for months, if not years, in congress. how do you bring down the deficit, which just ballooned out of control during the financial crisis when we had to bail out all of the banks and have a stimulus program. tax revenue fell through the floor. is, can youquestion stop the spending?
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the government has to have certain functions it has to keep in place. what they sort of found was that the levels they were looking at spending -- this is for the discretionary programs, things like national parks and education and the military -- they found they could not really make it work under the sequester levels they were dealing with. , in the house, we could not pass a transportation bill. this is a bill that appropriates money for roads and bridges. a popular bill. it could not get past because the levels were too low. spending is the lowest it has been on this side since 2007. flatlined.
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where the big spending problem is is it's not on the discretionary side. it is on the -- where the big on theg is is not discretionary side. it is on the autopilot side. as the baby boom retires, they will start drawing more benefits . it is going to overwhelm those programs. that is really where some of the major changes have to be made. congress is not the place where that is likely to happen touring this presidency. ing this presidency. on the revenue side, the democrats would like to close tax loopholes and take some of that revenue and put it toward deficit reduction.
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the deficit does get a little bit better over the next couple of years because the economy will improve. 2% deficit will go down to of gdp. it will start rising again after 2016 the cause of the aging of the baby boomers. it is a democrat think -- demographic shift. host: it is asked does the new budget deal mean there will not be any corporate loopholes closed in the next few years? depends on if they can get tax reform going. ,he tax breaks and loopholes the republicans want to save that revenue from some of these things. we are talking about oil production tax credits and incentives for holding profits
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overseas. that money should go for lowering rates in a tax reform scheme. it is hard to get it off of the have theseuse we budget fights that take up time. takes some fights off of the table, maybe congress will have time to go after that. reutersvid lawder from is our guest. a call on the democrats' line. why are they going after the little guy, the working class person instead of taking away some of those loopholes and tax breaks for the 1% like john mccain who does not pay nearly what i was paying. thank you.
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what they have focused on in this particular deal was not so much what they felt was theyly right or felt like should to. -- should do. what they focused on was what they could get done, what was politically possible. the house said, we are not going to raise taxes. we are not going to take any money from closing tax loopholes, tax breaks, credits, whatever you want to call them, to pay for spending for a couple of years' spending increases. the democrats tried to push for that, but they felt like it was not going to be able to be done and we would be in another shutdown situation.
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they kept this thing small and they kept it achievable. we are going to have going forward that is going to be quite a contentious one. do paul ryan and patty murray have similar thinking? i think they do. they recognize that the way the sequester worked for the defense department was difficult this year. for whatever reason, the sequester is not a straight line. it takes a big dip and goes back up. what that means is the military was going to take a much bigger chunk out of its appropriation this year. on both sides, they did want to restore that. it was not a question of the
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democrats not wanting to cut the military out. washington is a big defense state. they worked on that and try to make that much easier. enterprise,s from alabama on the republican line. caller: there are plenty of things on this raposo that should foster republican support. the democrats did not hold up emergency unemployment as a sacred cow as promised. they allow them to get that to the normal business of appropriations -- allowed them to get back to the normal business of appropriations. it is absurd for republicans to accuse representative ryan of not upholding the republican line.
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funds will switch into the other direction. good day. that has been one of the more interesting aspects of this of theeal, the reaction conservative groups and the most conservative members of the house and the pushback they have gotten from john boehner and more mainstream elements of the party. .aul ryan straddles that line he is the leader of the house house republicans on fiscal issues. respect him for doing what they think is right and preserving their interests. he threaded the needle on this one by coming up with a deal that was doable. this is the first major deal that paul ryan has actually
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done. he has been more of a visionary .uy he tried to reform social security and medicare and those kinds of things. allows a deal does, it pragmatic thing to go forward. you did see john boehner oppositionainst the of these conservative groups. he said they were using house members to forward their means. we will see if this split continues and how that affects the debate going forward, whether that makes the gop a bit more pragmatic in how they view this tough or whether they stay morally dogmatic side. were asked, how locked in are the conditions on this bill?
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president or congress change them at will or will they need new loans -- new votes? anything can happen. has signaled he .ill accept this the senate probably has the votes to get it passed as is. there is a big desire not to have this hanging out over the rest of the holiday selling noton so that people are scared into thinking there will be a shut down and we will spend less money and all of that. -- there is a chance this actually goes through as is. we have other fights. in the the debt limit
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springtime. to we have a big showdown over that is the question. on therom tennessee republican line. we are running short of time. if you can go straight to your question or comment. turned president clinton on nafta. million -- 22 million american jobs. jobs. are still wanting i was wondering if anything is going to be done to bring these jobs back. guest: as you say, there has been a huge drain of manufacturing jobs in this country. reasons been part of the the economy has been so slow to recover after this crisis. as far as bringing them back
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probably president obama .s like president clinton more trade is better for our economy. we can use the manufacturing jobs we have two x or two more. export more. trying to negotiate something called the transpacific partnership. all of the pacific rim countries outside of china to have a big trade bloc that will allow more exports. they do get around to tax reform, there will be some incentives. they will take away some tax incentives for moving jobs overseas.
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right now, you can still write off some of the expenses if you move factory equipment overseas to some other country. get a deduction for parts and expenses. stuff like that will go away. host: one more call. reading, pennsylvania, democrats' line. a question and a statement. the question has to do with a to do with ahave correlation between the aca at and long-term unemployment. there are about 2 million and long-term unemployed who would benefit by the extension of unemployment payments. between 3.5mewhere million and 5 million people who have received letters saying they will no longer have the
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insurance they were promised they would be able to have. approximately 10 million people will still remain uncovered by insurance under the affordable care act. host: we are running short on time. guest: you mentioned the affordable care act ammann otherwise known as obamacare. part of the reason this budget deal has sailed through so quickly is that republicans would like to get back to bashing obamacare. there have been a lot more people drop from plants because their plans to not qualify under the affordable care act. they should have put in a if your planing
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qualifies, you can keep it. this is a huge part of the debate and we will get back to figuring out what to do with obamacare. host: david lawder, a for reuterst talking about the budget deal. coming up in the final segment, your thoughts and views on gun control. the white house has said a moment of silence. we will come back. >> i wish you both a very happy christmas and a bright and prosperous new year. >> begins on thanksgiving day of this year. would you mind autographing some as ae christmas seals
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special favor to santa claus? >> i shall be delighted. it is one of the things that i do best. yes, indeed. my father, santa claus, gave it to me. >> it has some of the dark hair in it. >> "first ladies, influence & season two. this week.dge in thean, putting you room for congressional hearings, briefings, conferences, and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house. we are c-span, created by the cable tv industry 34 years ago and funded by your local cable
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or satellite provider. now you can watch us in hd. middle or high school student, c-span's studentcam competition wants to know what is the most important issue congress should address next year. it is your chance to win the grand prize of $5,000. the deadline is january 20. get more info at studentcam.org. >> "washington journal" continues. president obama is said to observe a moment of silence at the white house. it is scheduled for 9:25. until then, we will ask you to on gunur thoughts control and if your views have changed since sandy hook. .or democrats, 202-585-3880
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our line for independents, 202- 585-3882. a on social send us media. facebook.ach us on you can also participate in a poll. we will send -- show that momentarily. you can also e-mail us. john cornyn, the senator from texas weighing in on his facebook post. tsongas.iki said, america stood aghast at the senseless bloodshed in newtown, connecticut. first graders were taken from their families so suddenly. saying the newtown
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tragedy is one year old, yet still so vivid in our memories. again, the white house said to observe a moment of silence get you to take lace just about now within the white house walls. there is the view that you will see when that occurs. if you want to give us a call and government's your thoughts on sandy hook and if it has changed your view on -- call and us your thoughts on sandy hook and if it has changed your view on uncontrolled. -- on gun control. weed us -- tweet us @cspanwj. acebook is where you can find poll. we posted this last night.
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we had about 300 respondents during the course of the show, especially during the first 45 minutes. we asked people to give their thoughts and a simple yes or no format. for those weighing in, only about 34 people saying their views had changed because of it. saying no, their views have not changed because of it. that is a way you can reach out to us this morning. the moment of silence will take waste momentarily. we may have to cut you off. -- houston, texas on the republican line. caller: anybody who believes a piece of metal is responsible for the death of a human being
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is just being silly. it is being used as an excuse for the liberal democrat for scapegoating their absolute failures at massive gun control. is up next. he is from new jersey on the democrats' line. challenge the person who just spoke. of gunesponsibility owners. when i was 11 years old, i was shot with a gun and paralyzed from the neck down. people are irresponsible with their weapons. last year, a six-year-old was shot i a four-year-old. try to work with legislators locally and it is so difficult to change loss. .ost: quite -- to change laws
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host: why do you think it is difficult? guest -- caller: there are so many people suffering from gun injuries. many people die. there is a cost to law enforcement. i have been on medicaid. -- arethese things put put on the back burner. know are notat i so radical. i wish gun owners would step up to the plate and saying we need to have basic background checks and have responsibilities. host: how has your state dealt with this issue? caller: governor christie had
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the courage to ban the 50 caliber bullet. he is concerned about that. to run in the future. that is what worries me. people are not being responsible with their guns. views on gunur control changed since sandy hook? that will be the question we will put out to you. formrepublicans and for republicans and 202-585-3880 for democrats. here is resident and mrs. obama. president and mrs.
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obama.
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the president and mrs. obama observing a moment of silence for sandy hook of it hums. the question is have your views on gun -- for sandy hook victim s. candles thatt the were lit, this is kelly on the
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independent line. i am trying to figure what people are failing to realize is, this has been going on for a long time. i want to know why they make it for the's mentally incapable people or the -- for incapable people or the criminals themselves. the government is putting people in jail on three strike rules. they go to jail for 20 years. you have an armed robber who is convicted and goes to jail for five years. what kind of sense does that make. to government does not want take responsibility. they are the ones leading the violent criminals back out on the street.
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they want to blame the law- abiding citizens for all of the mistakes. from oklahoma on the public in line. caller: my sympathy goes out to the families in sandy hook. notiews on gun control have changed. the government has failed us in the mental health capacity. ordo not have the ability to trained psychiatrists identify problem children from a very young age on up into adulthood. all criminals have guns. they do not have them legally. they can't get them anywhere. -- they can get them anywhere. a burden to the responsible gun holder. it is almost impossible to get ammunition. for homes.tection
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i do not want our second amendment to go away. that is the bastion of how this land was founded. think this is completely apolitical ploy to take the guns away from the american people. illinois is up next. democrats' line. this is keith. caller: i do not know where to begin. i called to answer the guy from texas. non-motorized piece of metal. it is only dangerous when it is hand.to a human nobody is blaming the weapon. the point of most common sense gun regulation is to limit the hand of the person it goes to.
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the woman who just called -- i have to address that, too. talking about is almost circular reasoning. you don't want to limit the of a responsible gun owner to own a weapon. i am there with you. but you don't want to give the --ernment the of military the ability to separate the non- owner from the irresponsible gun owner or the criminal. responsible gun owner from the irresponsible gun owner or the criminal. them forwant to blame what happens that is bad. members of congress tweeting out this morning. today we remember the victims of the new town tragedy.
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dedicate ourselves to better protecting all americans from senseless filings. to speak to this issue. . have bipolar disorder i am trying to get a part-time job so i can have a little bit better life. i have worked in the mental years ineld for 12 computer support. i have worked in crisis. people get violent or they get agitated. they shoot them up with the drugs. my mother was murdered by her
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strange second husband, who was an alcoholic. they could not decide if he was insane at the time he did it. they put him in the state hospital, but they let him out a few years later. he got life insurance money because he was not guilty of a crime. he could profit from that. i think that is a travesty of justice. host: a graphic from the department of justice shows what has been done since sandy hook. state gun bills have been introduced since the new town massacre. 109 have become law. tightened gun restrictions. if you go to the website of the new york times, it gives you a breakdown of how the laws were done.
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that is the information when it comes to state gun laws in what has been done since new town. scott from utah on the democrats' line. to make awant comment. i wonder how the republicans and what they're -- going to criticize the president on on that moment of silence. incannot do anything right their eyes. he shook hands with a guy and they found something wrong with that. i am a hunter. i think people should be allowed to have hunting guns. maybe one pistol. the nra is so paranoid about any gun laws at all, the whole issue is split just like the congress right now. i do not know how we will get
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anything done. there should be limits. twitter, a viewer says my ideas on gun control have not changed. but my opinion of gun owners has. caller: thank you for taking my call. my comment in question this morning. the federal government is pretty inefficient on almost everything in don's -- everything it does. the states should make laws. the federal government has too much power and should be limited and that power. they should not try to solve every problem. they are inefficient at the job they do. look at our border patrol.
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we have the strongest military in the world and we cannot control our borders. caller: i wanted to say the vast majority of gun crimes are caused by handguns. caused by rifles or automatic weapons. the if you ban guns, criminals can still make them. guns are incredibly easy to make. there have been kids who tried to blow up their schools with bombs, taking knives and machetes and sorts to school. you can ban a certain tool, but the only reason they are using that because it is the most convenient tool at the time. if you take that away, they will go to another tool. they may do more damage. they may use casts or a bomb, which are both easy to make --
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they may use gas or a bomb, which are both easy to make. host: an interview of parents in newtown, connecticut. a new vocabulary has grown around the day. asy referred to the day 12/14. -- isa mom is understand understood to mean the mother of a vet them. the six women killed in the school that they are often toled -- she is understood .e the mother of a victim it is like a great day in november always. is mary and florida on the democrats' line. respondi would like to
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to people who always say, knives, baseball bats. guns thatall of these they have bought illegally. the southdriven from to the southwest. they are smuggling guns. that is why mayor bloomberg did a sting operation and arizona three years ago. he had it on tape, these gun dealers selling at these gun shows and one more thing. i hear that mental health is the problem. emotionallyple are and mentally ill and have never been diagnosed? youryou have a stand ground law where anybody can go out and shoot somebody because their dog is barking or the recent event that happens. a retired sheriff's deputy got .nto a road rage incident
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they had their family in the car and they were shooting at each other. these people who want to stockpile guns, i like my government. are they going to make war on me? newtown, a twitter feed that features thoughts from those there. read some of the tweets that have been posted by 4000 followers. that is one of the many tweets this morning on this anniversary. john in st. louis, missouri. go ahead. need to stay on point. this is an issue about new town. this was an affluent kid whose mother taught him out to shoot. these were not criminals or illegal immigrants. these were wealthy kids from a wealthy family. he had mentally issues and his
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mother still gave him access to firearms. he caused all of this destruction to innocent people. if you want to possess firearms, you should have at least a million dollars worth of liability insurance. any crimes committed against a gun that your family commits, you are liable for. that would put an end to a lot of these things. if people knew they were liable for the crimes committed by their family members who have mental problems, and we all of this still would not be going on. florida onahoochee, the democrats' line. tommy, go ahead. caller: i am a democrat. i got shot once by an overzealous person. i still care about guns.
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you need to have a way to find out who needs guns, who knew how .o handle a gun in every state, they need and see.to check if they are mentally ill, they do not need a gun. host: the washington post highlights 91 children who have died from gun violence since newtown. they show pictures of the children. those, michael in arizona on the independent line. caller: it seems like there has been a change in the gun show loopholes. how it is universal background checks. i am not post to background checks.
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i am opposed to a gun registry. to a gun show and sell to a private person and that person sells it and another background check, that is a chain of ownership. that is a registry. someone liket chuck schumer or diane feinstein with a gun registry. is next in michigan on the democrats' line. caller: it is sad that obama can , but that young woman who had a baby in the car and pulled up and they fired on her and killed her. she was leaving.
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hoyer brought her up and they gave him a standing ovation. that is sad. cops shooting up a car with a baby and a young woman? no sympathy whatsoever. it is sad. and they want to take guns from us. thank you, bye. host: daniel says, what is actually being done to make this a problem is history. the numbers are on the screen. you can call for the remaining numbers of the show. l on the independent line. not -- theroblem is problem is not with the guns.
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the problem is with the gun owners. you buy a gun and you register it. if you want to sell it, you sell it to somebody who is also registered. you can own all of the guns and the magazine she wanted, but we would have a registration. people saying the government knows about 300 million guns in america. and they are going to take them away? hook, more kids have been killed in chicago from gun violence than all of the soldiers in afghanistan. -- until we control it, it is an epidemic. that is my thought. host: a statement on sandy hook. house ofd states
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representatives hasn't passed a single commonsense gun safety law. our thoughts and prayers are with the families who lost loved ones to the tragedy at sandy hook elementary school, and with families all over the country who have lost friends or relatives to gun violence. that is from the congressional regressive caucus. this is larry in oklahoma on the independent line. caller: i volunteered for the army back in 1972 during the vietnam era. violence a lot of this is produced by younger folks and implemented by their parents letting them play video games that are violent, violent, violent.
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i was taught by my dad and my grandfather to hunt squirrels and raccoons and stuff like that. i was taught how to treat a rant -- a rifle responsibly. today, the government does not put people in jail with other violent criminals. they do not train them to get .way from violence criminals in jails retrain them. they did it and now they can get away with it. host: representative john tierney on twitter. my sympathies remain with the families of the 26 innocent event ends. the people who are
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talking against gun laws have never had it happen to them and their families. when that happens, they change their mind. the other things i want to ask you, and then i will hang up -- when people talk about being against the government, are they talking about washington? city.ment is in every what about all of the governors taking over people costs -- people's lives and telling them what to do with their bodies? they are part of the government, too. host: we are talking about sandy hook and if it has changed your views on gun violence. think piece says it does nothing to help anyway.
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-- think peace says it does not help anyway. we should include any mental problems when they do background checks. virginia tech the massacre years ago and the mental illness problems that shooter had. yesterday and the boy out in colorado and had a shotgun. we need to be sure that under -- theirlike him parents control their accessibility to go. i am a hunter and i have and guns. all of my guns are locked up in the safe with me having the only combination.
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they can only get to a gun if i open the safe for them. you were mentioning the shooting that took place yesterday. the denver post making it their headline. gunmen dead and a teacher and a girl critical at the time of this headline. may be gun owners should be required to carry insurance with reductions for gun locks and gun safes. the front page of the ourant this morning.
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changing slowly. if your views have changed some gun control since sandy hook. good morning. blame -- line -- i think it is absolutely disgusting. no children should die from gun violence. you are a disgusting person and i hate your guts. howard stern. goodbye. caller: our founding fathers could not have started this nation without guns.
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i agree with the person who called in from as early saying we should have insurance. i am not opposed to that. i do carry a gun in case something happens. i hope i never need it. wassandy hook incident treated by a mentally ill young person. worshiper, a devil too. 90 one children referenced in that washington post story. in 63 deaths, the shooter had mental health issues. at least 37 members were shot by a family member. mother and 17 by the
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father. some graphic information. that story is from the washington post this morning. in missouri on our independent line. welcome to c-span. caller: i do believe in the second amendment. what is mentally ill when somebody goes out there and shoot somebody, especially with children or anybody else? then we say it is mentally ill. we have to recognize the difference between revenge on inebody, like that guy colorado. i was about revenge. that was not about mental illness. we also have to recognize evil. we have some people in the world who are just plain old evil.
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the real mentally ill do not bother anybody. we have to recognize that. ) one more call. norths charlotte, carolina on the independent line. caller: people killed. with spears.d i do not feel like guns are relevant. in the second amendment, when it says the right to bear arms, i believe that is physical, the two arms we were born with. it does not say anything pertaining to a gun or a bullet. to stand up and physically fight another individual to defend your self -- as in -- defend
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yourself. host: that is the last call. discuss how the budget deal impact the defense department tomorrow. we will have the director for the harvard institute of politics. and look at millennials their use of politics. they strongly supported the , but do not 2008 support the affordable care act. and we will talk about the future of guantánamo bay. we will take that and your phone calls tomorrow starting at 7:00. we will see you then.
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[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] andoday on c-span, secretary of state john kerry testifying on the nuclear deal with iran followed by a hearing examining u.s. foreign aid to jordan in light of syrian refugees. leaders from the nsa and justice department's testify about their surveillance programs. departments testify about their surveillance programs. archduke ferdinand and
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his wife were in terri able -- were on a tour. it was a national holiday that they celebrate every year. thatoviets were furious they had taken over bosnia. they have been plotting to do the archduke of the other slavic peoples within their. they try to kill him. they did. it was sloppy police work. blank.ot him point >> the assassination of archduke ferdinand and his wife and the events leading up to world war i. wararet macmillan on "the that ended peace. "

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