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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  December 20, 2013 5:00am-7:01am EST

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brazil, state departments were stablished to set up so-called roadmaps pre-discussions knowing that the conditions are not yet in place for an actual agreement but to lay the groundwork. it is not clear to many of us were that all stands, particularly after october. i wonder in the spirit of looking forward and consensus that you have described here, described what the path forward may be there. >> sure. happy to do that. as we try to understand the demographics in brazil and what has been driving this demand is surging these is -- visa, the growth in the middle class was seen as one of the reasons why
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we were seeing such a sharp rise. as we look at the issue were closing, we realized that really wasn't true. many of the new middle class and trends when not traveling to the united states. they were still traveling inside brazil. we were seeing increased travel but upper-middle-class. because they had more disposable income and they had developed an interest in travel. even though we had to run really hard in order to fashion a visa process that reduced wait times down to two days and accommodate the many brazilians traveling to the united states, we recognize that there is a new group of entrance into the middle class that have yet to attempt to travel to the united states but hat they are coming. it is kind of like a rogue wave out there. it is in the middle of the ocean
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and not stopping. through expanding our consular sections and the number of officers we have in building out the interview windows we have, we are building a capacity to produce 1.8 million to 2 million visas a year. i personally do not think that is enough, if this rogue wave keeps coming at us. if the brazilian economy takes up in terms of growth and people can consolidate themselves and that is where the visa program becomes important. both countries have to keep working at it. there was hesitancy to address the visa waiver program. their experience in spain and
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portugal has not been a happy one. that people turned around at orts of entry. that they have to turn around and go back and the resilience were looking for assurances that they would not repeat the experience is in lisbon and madrid -- the brazilians were looking for assurances that they would not have repeat experiences in lisbon and adrid. is not that we ask for information about travelers. we do want governments to give us a thumbs up or a thumbs down, whether they are at risk or not. and this is very hard for the brazilians to do legally. it requires them to dig through databases that are not easily
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connected right now. but secondly, to share risk assessments that they doubt they are legally allowed to do. we think there is a way forward on this and we think we can solve these problems. it is going to take some hard work on both sides. we think there is some urgency to it. >> i am getting there. >> thanks. i work with many multinationals that operate in brazil and for them the cost of doing business is quite high. a lot of the cheap credit is available and another measure is no in the local tax regime and where to set up local
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roduction. which way does the u.s. plan to advocate for these u.s. based multinationals? the return investment is not like a five- or seven-year time frame. >> it is not just people coming in from the outside. one of the striking things is they will land american companies if they are based in razil. without a doubt, there is an overhang in the economy that needs to be addressed to promote not just brazilian companies from helping generate increased growth but also the growing presence of global companies and global investors. and some of this has to do with the legal costs and the records were costs. we have a very large foreign commercial presence in brazil and a very skilled one that operates out of all of our and disease and is prepared to help
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all american countries that are interested. many of the multinationals come down with their own resources and can manage their way through a lot of this. but many companies are coming in fresh. we are seeing with companies to come down with state delegations but by governors is a great interest in selling into the market are being present but little understanding about how to do it. that is where we can play an important role. we can try to look for brazilian partners. ultimately brazil is a country where the extent to which you have brazilian partners working with you will make it a lot easier. the advice we give to american companies when they come down is first and foremost take on the dictum that brazil is not for beginners, that it is a complex and conductivity country and in
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many's ways -- many ways it is like an archaeological dig. navigating that can be challenging for some businesses. but also, brazil does not for sure timers. it is not for people who are going to come in and come out. it is for people who are prepared to make a long-term commitment, simply because it does take a long time to establish yourself and to find a way forward. we believe even the direction that brazil is going and given the platform that it could be for exports into the region and beyond, it is attracted to american industries. but again, we have clear instructions from the president and from the secretary of state
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and the secretary of commerce, that our number one is commercial diplomacy. this was my priority. i'm sure it is the priority of the new ambassador to brazil. iowa recommend that you work for closely with the embassy and our consulates because we'll provide all the help we can. >> paul johnson. thank you so much. always a pleasure to hear you alk. we have heard over the years about opportunities for trilateral cooperation between the united states and rozelle and africa -- and brazil and sub-saharan africa. what are the prospects for some of the meat on the bones in terms of financing and trade investment, industries like agriculture, infrastructure, health.
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i just wanted to hear if thoughts on that. thank you. >> no, thank you. t is great seeing you. there are lots of possibilities. we began our trilateral cooperation in an effort to eradicate malaria but have extended that to mozambique, where we're doing some important work on the agricultural productivity side. we are working with the brazilian in honduras and haiti on some other projects. this is brand-new for us and for the brazilian. working through their brazilian cooperation agency has been an interesting and fruitful experience. it is a small agency. it is staffed largely --brazil does not have the hydrant of professionals that one would
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imagine in that kind of an agency but it is building them over time. we have created an interesting relationship where we have exchange officers. as we try to get a better feel for how both sides work and where there might be synergies and connections. and we are interested and excited about extending that possibility. we think that brazil has some really interesting things to offer. countries in africa and elsewhere. brazil does have some legal restraint or constraints on how far it goes in this kind of cooperation, especially related to how moneys flow back and forth between the government and abc and how it does its development assistance abroad
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and in some cases it is aid that is paying for brazilian services in some of these countries. but we think over time as brazil built out its programs, it is oing to begin removing these barriers or streamlining them in a way in which abc and the brazilian government can do more. than has been discussions about joint financing of projects, especially where there is a u.s. and a brazilian partner. it is competent to a certain extent by rules and regulations. we continue to try to find a way forward on that because the potential is huge. >> i might just add that outside the private sector and government gates foundation has engaged with the brazilian government and ministry of agriculture, abc in an ambitious
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program to send retired, distinguished agricultural scientists, economists to help with small farms, the development of small farms and arm practices in africa. very promising effort. >> thank you. argaret. >> thank you very much. i was one of those brazilianistas that was brought up a long time ago. when i first went to brazil in the 1970's, one of the points of attrition between the united tates and brazil was a nuclear question. you mentioned the kerfuffle with iran with the lula administration. have we gotten over that
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previous, that last irritation and is the treaty for the south american countries possibly a odel for the kind of weapons nonproliferation regime that we are looking at in the middle east and other areas? is this an area where we might see more cooperation? >> we are way over iran. e got over that one pretty quickly, actually. i think that brazil has been a very useful partner. brazil has never been happy with sanctioned regimes but it complies with them faithfully. but more importantly, i think especially under resident
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rousseff, the brazilian made clear that iran had a lot of explaining to do and if it wanted normal relationships would have to be respectful of un security council resolutions and the desire expressed repeatedly by the security council and elsewhere that iran address the concerns related to its nuclear program. brazil has been supportive publicly most recently of the agreement that they were able to fashion with iran. i think brazil sees this as a ositive development. that is helpful. in that regard i think we are in a very good place right now. the latin american experience around nuclear liberation and especially the agreement between brazil and argentina to create
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kind of mutual verification capabilities was an innovative and important agreement and one that could be useful as we look at how we manage verification regimes elsewhere. but i think ultimately the challenge we will face whether in iran or north korea is really will be about verification and in that regard, oddly enough this is where intelligence is going to play an important role, because what we have seen over time is that especially in the nonproliferation side, intelligence is central to how we do our verification mark. much of it can be done publicly and by inspectors, not all that an be.
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as we think about the issues raised by mr. snowden, we need to understand that not all is about spying in our countries. much of it has to do with supporting larger international agreements. >> right there, yes. >> i am with georgetown university law center. thank you for your talk but even more so for taking so many questions. have two questions. if you could shed some light on why president obama apologized to angela merkel but not for the spying. and secondly, jesters have worked extremely well for the
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pope, for example, and president putin is considering reportedly a pardon for the pussy riot girls and the arctic sunrise crew. would you consider recommending to the government a pardon for snowden given that he is such a thorn in our relations with so many countries but particularly brazil? >> thank you for both of those questions. when these issues first appeared and especially when the allegations of head of government surveillance appeared, we treated the brazilian in the same way we treated the germans, which is quite remarkable given whatever
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allegations were out there. and the brazilian understood this and i think appreciated in the wrong way because it was indicative of the importance of the relationship. our intelligence relationships with those countries are quite different. germany has much more equity in our intelligence community then brazil does, especially with troops participating in isaf. much of the protection comes from u.s. sources. i do not want to get into characterizing the conversation that president obama had with the chancellor. i will leave that to the white house. the germans have characterized that in one fashion and i am not sure the white house would agree with that. but what is important is that there has been communication several times between president
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obama and president rousseff about this and there will be communication about this in the future that addresses that specific issue. and so i think that given the circumstances, we are probably in as good a position we can be in terms of how we do our engagement in our country to country engagement. in terms of unexpected actions,, this was race briefly in a "go minutes -- "60 minutes" piece on the nsa. i think it is clear what the white house as said, but especially what the department of justice has said, that you should not expect an unexpected jester -- gesture. >> let me collect a few questions because we are coming to an end.
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we have two and then that is it. >> mr. ambassador, hi. i have served twice in brazil with u.s. aid. you talk about bilateral cooperation and talk about trilevel and you mentioned the opportunities in education and we have had major successes from the early 1970's with brazil, linking american and brazilian universities. they have come back and now they are running those institutions in agriculture and health and other areas. you alluded to agriculture. i'm wondering about energy and environment. what opportunities for bilateral cooperation do you see? >> let's move to the next question. es, there.
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>> i am with the house ways and means committee. in bali, we saw a great success led by a brazilian inspector general. right before that success was singed, it looked as though some of the wto players would be the reason for the failure of the ali discussions. to what degree coming out of bali do you think that brazil's view of its own specifically trade leadership is changing from one in which it is a leader of the developing world to one in which it is a broker of some sort between the developing world and the developed world? >> let's come here. let's start with this.
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>> human rights watch. thank you very much for your remarks. you mentioned that you hope to build up constructive relationship with brazil, promoting common values like democracy and human rights. what makes you feel hopeful that kind can be effectively developed in our region, and particularly in south america, here a group of countries that i do not think they share the same views and the same values in terms of promoting democracy and human rights. it is critical that brazil plays a more effective role. how do you see that role developing in terms of working together constructively with the
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u.s. government in south america? >> thank you. and the last question, please. >> hi. i don't think you have time to answer my question. i will pose a perhaps as a comment. it has been wonderful to hear your remarks on a wide range of subjects. brazil is a continental country. i was wanting to ask if you could comment on some of the tensions within the country that come along with improvements in social inclusion and growth and improvements in economic well-being across the country instead of treating brazil as a single country that is doing remarkable things. what is happening in the different regions that have different opportunities? >> ok. thank you. all good questions.
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we have done something remarkable with our aid mission in brazil. it was on the chopping blocks, as it has been several times in our history. we were able to convince our colleagues in washington and elsewhere that now was the time to move from and aid mission to one that was a policy engagement mission. the idea being as brazil's economy expands, that we needed to be there working with them on a daily basis with the hope of helping to influence and shape how they did assistance work so that it was more compatible with what we were trying to accomplish, recognizing other major economies out there have a different understanding in what foreign assistance is. and so far the dialogue has been really positive. we have been able to fashion a
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third country assistance programs where we are able to share expertise and funding in order to accomplish common goals, and i think if we are able to do this right, it could create a new kind of development assistance diplomacy that we could deploy in other countries that have emerging or strong economies that are playing an increasingly important role in subregions. we have pulled back on some of our historical roles in brazil, and our program today is focused on biodiversity issues and climate change issues. we have a few alternative energy programs, but this does not represent the future of our developed assistance program. however, it does represent the future of our commercial engagement, our investment engagement, which strikes me to
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degree to which pharmaceutical companies are prepared to come to brazil and do agreements with brazilian companies to build out a capacity for brazilian pharmaceutical companies. this is driven by the emerging middle class and that the demand for high-quality health care in brazil. i think the synergies are there, just moving from the developing world into the commercial and investment world. regarding the wto and bali, congratulations to the person who managed that event for the wto. it was in everybody's interests that the bali event was successful, because having failed at this time would not have been in anyone's best interests.
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especially with acevedo at its head, there was a special need to play as much of a role of broker as they could. historically, brazil has had the kind of negotiations with two mentalities. one is trying to get the best deal possible. that is not going to work, trying to assert leadership in some fashion and use the event as a way to assert leadership. but i think in this regard they recognize that they could do both. they could act as a leader of a particular group of countries while at the same time brokering. i think they found a way to bridge that divide. with any luck they will be able to maintain that over time. in terms of human rights, a great question. it is one of the big struggles that brazil faces as it tries to find a way to express through its foreign policy what it means to be a democracy in the region and the world. historically, brazil has been an
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adherent to principles of nonintervention and non- interference and self- determination of peoples and has been reluctant to criticize countries. this is because at one level it does not believe it should, but it also recognizes it is quite open to criticism. it does not want to open the door for reciprocal attacks and wants to build a protection, especially within inside regional and institutional organizations. i do not think that is a stance that it will be able to maintain in the long term because as brazil globalizes, as its society mobilizes, brazilians will wonder what it means to be a democracy in the world and how does brazil express that democracy. and the fact that internally you have got such a strong commitment to an open society, such a strong commitment to individual rights, is a very positive thing to work from.
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this is going to be an evolutionary process over time and one we cannot give up on. we have to keep focused and pushing on it. with regard to the tensions within the country, brazil is a huge country, that of all the colonial entities that were established in the region, it is the only one that has held together. i am sure there is all kinds of linguistic and cultural reasons for that and demographic reasons for it, but although it is a big country and a diverse country in terms of its linguistics and its accents and its traditions and the ethnicity of its immigrants, at the same time there's something that makes everyone a brazilian.
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that in many ways is what is remarkable about brazil and all the -- even today, people in the southern part of brazil will be dismissive of the northern part of result and vice versa. one can find the same thing in the united states. i think what is remarkable about brazil is that like the united states it is able through its diversity that it can present an image of itself that everybody can understand, everybody knows they are brazilians. >> thank you. i would like to remind you of something which this was the last event of our program this year, and i'm grateful to ambassador shannon and the others for being here and have helped participate in this. this sunday marks the 25th
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anniversary of the assassination of chico mendez. chico mendez was not known in brazil when he was killed. today mendez is honored in brazil at the national institute for studies, policymaking in the amazon, one of the 26 national heroes of brazil named by the brazilian congress. we have associated ourselves to a group of institutions that will host a memorial service this sunday at 4:00 at holy name catholic church on 11th street, the announcement on our website, and i hope that those that are interested can join us there.
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with that, i would like to thank ambassador shannon very much for being here with us, and i would like to thank you for having been with us throughout this year that is closing now. we are very grateful to you. i wanted to recognize especially two people that have been working with me, michael who was here yesterday, and annika cardenas, who is also working with us. thank you very much. happy new year. and please, i would like to recognize and with gratitude the presence of ambassador thomas shannon here today. thank you very much. [applause]
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[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] dome will. capitol undergo a two-year restoration project. we will talk about the project later. and on this morning's -- that is journal"
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live at 7:00 eastern. the stateng, look at of u.s.-saudi arrays -- relations. live coverage from the hudson institute at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span 3. >> she was everyone's soul sister. everyone thought they knew,. she laid her life out for everyone to see. she told us about what life was like in suburbia. one of the wonderful things wroteher, she what -- mainly humor. it was humor that was accessible to everyone because it was humor that happened in everybody's lives, but they might not
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recognize it until they sought written on the page or in a newspaper column because funny things happen to us all the time , but we have to be on the lookout for them and she was the one who focused our attention on the funny things that happened in a family. the moment, seem like craziness and driving you them,but when you look at they were really funny. that was a real gift. >> the life and times of erma bombeck. literaryhe history and life of dayton, ohio.
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>> i am ceo of the atlantic council. the cold war seemed to have ended with the fall of the berlin wall in 1989 and the subsequent collapse of the soviet union and soviet empire. berlin wall in 1989 and the subsequent collapse of the soviet union and soviet em piempt following that both the european union and north atlantic treaty organization enlarged. next year at the atlantic council and way beyond the atlantic council, we'll be celebrating the 25th anniversary of the berlin wall's fall and the 15th and 10th anniversaries of nato and enlargements. we'll indeed have a tribute at
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our annual a wards dinner where we'll honor chuck hagel, eu commission president among others. recent events in the ukraine have underscored how far we remain of bush's dream of a europe whole interest free, one that ultimately could embrace russia and closest neighbors, former elements of the soviet union in one form or another. one of the best forms was the eastern partnership agreement of the european union. the latest news shows it's you think likely by tanks and troops in the era we have interested. vladimir putin tuesday said he agreed to loan ukraine $15
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billion and cut the price of critical natural gas supplies. ukraine called the deal historic. a document reported by the wall street journal indicated ukraine could have gained more from the west with different conditions and not as plainly put. had it signed the pact, it might have had $26 billion of loans and grants from the eu over the next seven years. and if it also agreed to imf package. while the you crane pivots eastward, hundreds of thousands ukraines pivot westward standing in protest for their continued desire to be part of a europe whole and free. it's in that context that we welcome back a great friend of the atlantic council, senator john mccain who visited the protestors over the weekend with
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senator chris murphy and continues to play a consistent leading principle role in supporting democratic change in eastern europe and around the world. thinking through what role the united states should be playing in challenging times. for those reasons and many more the atlantic council presented sther the freedom a ward in 2011. he said then and i quote, like the workers or the youth of east berlin, young people across the the middle east and north africa and in many other places too, now senator mccain one could add the word ukraine, are peacefully changing their countries by indivisible longing for human rights and democracy, unquote. senator mccain, we look forward to your opening comments and discussion that will be
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moderated by atlantic council executive vice president wilson who has led our team effort in trying to make sense of events in ukraine. those in the audience that heard senator mccain before on this set of subjects, this is on the record. feel free to tweet. the hashtag is ac ukraine. it's an honor to have you with us. >> thank you very much. thank you fred for that kind introduction. thank you for your wise advice and council you always provide on transatlantic issues. i want to thank damon and all of you of the atlantic council, which i believe is one of the intellect churl leaders. i'm happy to have those kind
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words. thank you for not mentioning that i ran for president. i appreciate that. i've often said after i lost, i slept like a baby. sleep two hour, wake up and cry, sleep two hours, wake up and cry. i also thank you again for your warm words given the approval rating of congress in cased you missed it, now 9%. i have a line i use all the time that we're now down to page staff and blood relatives. that's pretty clever but i received a phone call the other day from my mother who's 101 years old. we're now down to paid staff. any way. thank you. i'm pleased to have the opportunity to be here. as fred mentioned last weekend i went to ukraine with my friend and fellow member, foreign relations committee member, chris murphy.
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we met with senior government officials, the president, the major opposition leader, and major oppositions leader, members of civil society including the daughter of timishinku, students and youth, hundreds and thousands of peaceful dmen demonstrators. i've never seen anything like we witnessed in crew yukraine. a quarter of millions cheered and jumped up and down in a sea of sparkling cell phones. sunday when we addressed the crowd it was estimated to be as many as a million people ukrainians from all walks of life, men and women, young and old all part of the country.
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ukrainian veterans of the soviet war afghanistan helping to protect the demonstrators and securing our passage through the crowd. as we spoke, thousands it was one of the most moving experiences i have had. senator murphy and i did not go to ukraine to interfere with its internal affairs or to favor one group or party or leader over another but rather to support the peaceful aspirations of all ukrainians and to affirm their sovereign right to determine the future of their independent nation by themselves in freedom. obviously, the major development since we returned was russia's decision to purchase about $15 billion in ukrainian bonds, reduce the price of gas it sells to ukraine, an estimated annual savings of $2 billion to $3 billion. this was a big deal to be sure, but i think we need to recognize
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a few things about russia's financial intervention. first of all, all of this russian money will not solve ukraine's structural economic and political problems. it will at best postpone them and in many ways likely exacerbate them. by most estimates, president yanukovych has about a year before ukraine is once again staring down the barrel of an economic crisis. we can all hope he uses this time wisely to address the sources of this looming crisis, namely ukraine's mounting debt burden, unsustainable currency peg, and a large distortive energy subsidies as the imf has insisted. somehow, i doubt it. more likely president yanukovych will just kick the can down the road and when the russian money runs out in a year, ukraine will again be facing all of the same
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problems it is now. we also need to recognize the reality of how president putin's temporary bailout of ukraine fits into his larger ambition toward russia's so-called near abroad. in recent months, president putin has pulled out all the stops to coerce, intimidate, and threaten ukraine away from europe. russia has blocked large amounts of ukrainian trade, especially chocolate. it has threatened to cut off its gas supplies in the dead of winter, which it has done before. according to ukrainian officials we met in kiev, president putin threatened far worse economic retaliation if he signed the association agreement with the eu. president putin stressed on tuesday that russia's financial assistance to ukraine is free of conditions. if you believe that, i have some beach front property in arizona to sell you.
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russia's bullying extends beyond ukraine to the other so-called eu eastern partnership countries. in the past few months, russia coerced armenia into joining its eurasia custom union. it sought to prevent moldova from signing its own association agreement with the eu by blocking imports of wine, threat tong cut off its supply of gas, and suggesting it would stoke separatism. russia has blocked lithuanian trade and deployed its missiles to kaliningrad. it is working to establish hardened borders by building fences that encroached deeper into georgian territory. today we hear news that russia will soon deploy new rail-based nuclear capable icbms.
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this pattern of behavior amounts to a russian bid for a kind of quasi imperial dominance over its neighbors, a newfound assertiveness that's only grown in the void left by the administration's absence of leadership in other parts of the world, especially syria. president putin has been emboldened by president obama's empty threats of red lines and the resulting loss of u.s. credibility. we now have the bizarre situation in which we are working with russia to dismantle chemical weapons in syria while russia is supplying assad with conventional weapons to continue the slaughter and maintain his hold on power. president putin has taken a clear lesson from all of this. if the united states is unwilling to stand up to him in the middle east, he can do it as he wishes closer to home. and he has. the key to president putin's geopolitical ambitions is ukraine. it is more populous than all of
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the other eastern partnership countries combined. it shares the same cultural, religion, and historical heritage as russia. and president putin still does not accept that ukraine is an independent country. he has said as much publicly. first of all these reasons, the russian-led customs union cannot be viable without ukraine. indeed, the idea of a modern democratic ukraine that is part of europe is president putin's worst nightmare because eventually russian citizens would look at that flourishing ukraine and ask, why not us? that's why president putin will stop at nothing to thwart ukraine's aspiration to become part of europe. that's the bad news. but we also need to recognize the good news. regardless of the short-term pain that president putin can inflict on russia's neighbors, history is not on his side.
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the eastern partnership countries want the benefits of european integration, a reality that was demonstrated clearly last month when georgia and moldova bucked russian president and signed their own association agreements. there are also reasons for hope in ukraine. no matter how much money president putin commits, he cannot change the fact that a majority of ukrainians, not just in the west, but in the south and east as well, especially amongst young people, see their future in europe. poll after poll confirms that, as does any time spent with young ukrainians who have no memory of the soviet union and who want everything europe has to offer. for this reason, no ukrainian president, not this one or any other, will ever be able to take ukraine off the path to europe. doing so would be political suicide.
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and for russia to insist on it would only engender the animosity of millions of ukrainians. the fact is, russia is not ten feet tall. it can't bail out ukraine forever. russia's economy is growing sluggishly, plagued by corruption and dependent on hydrocarbons. under these circumstances, i imagine many russians are not too happy to see $15 billion of their natural resources heading to a foreign country in furtherance of president putin's ideological ambitions. so the question now is, where do we go from here? first, we must continue to support the peaceful aspirations of ukrainians for democracy, rule of law, uncorrupt governance, equal opportunity, and integration with europe. we must insist that the ukrainian government uphold the human rights of all ukrainians, especially the freedom of speech and association.
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and where ukrainian citizens remain detained for peacefully exercising these basic rights, we should continue to call and work for their immediate release. second, we must continue to demand that all sides in the current political crisis refrain from violence, something that the demonstrators have done to a remarkable degree. both the administration and the congress have put ukrainian authorities on notice that any further use of violence or other human rights violations against peaceful citizens will be met with targeted sanctions against those responsible. this is not an idle threat. and i hope we never have to make good on it, but we will vigilantly monitor events in ukraine, and whether their demonstrations continue or not, we will be prepared to respond as necessary. third, we must support ukrainian demands for accountability for those who ordered and carried out past acts of violence
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against peaceful demonstrators. president yanukovych has initiated this process, and we should support ukrainian efforts to see it through and expand its scope where the evidence warrants. fourth, we must support popular ukrainian demands for transparency on the terms of the agreement that was signed in moscow this week. many ukrainians fear that president yanukovych has made a decision that puts his own self-interest above the best interest of the country. and if he did, it wouldn't be the first time. we think ukraine citizens have a right to know the details of what russia will get out of this deal. fifth, if ukraine's political crisis persists or deepens, which is a real possibility, we must support creative ukrainian efforts to resolve it. senator murphy and i heard a few such ideas last weekend.
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from holding early elections as the opposition is now demanding, to the institution of a technocratic government to make the difficult reforms required for ukraine's long-term economic health and sustainable development. decisions such as these are for ukrainians to make, no one else, and if they request our assistance, we should provide it where possible. finally, we must encourage the european union and the imf to keep their doors open to ukraine. ultimately, the support of both institutions is indispensable for ukraine's future and eventually a ukrainian president, either this one or a future one, will be prepared to accept the fundamental choices facing the country, which is this. while there are real short-term costs to the political and economic reforms required for imf assistance and eu integration and while president
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putin will likely add to these costs by retaliating against ukraine's economy, the long-term benefits for ukraine in taking these tough steps are far greater and almost limitless. this decision cannot be born by one person alone in ukraine, nor should it be. it must be shared. both the risks and the rewards by all ukrainians, especially the opposition and business elite. it must also be shared by the eu, the imf, and the united states. all of us in the west should be prepared to help ukraine financially and otherwise to overcome the short-term pain that reforms will require and russia may inflict. in short, the west must show ukraine's leaders and people that they will not face short-term economic destruction in pursuit of a better future. this is the challenge we now face with georgia and moldova, which have decided to deepen ties with europe and the west. these countries must know that we will help them whether any
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loss of economic activity or energy supplies. in a sense, by helping georgia and moldova to meet their short-term needs during this transition, we in the west can convince ukraine and others that they can count on us too. ultimately, if we are committed to expanding the promise of the euro-atlantic community, we will have to stand up more forcefully to russia. this is not the way it should be and certainly not the way we want it to be. eastern european countries should not have to choose between good relations with the eu or good relations with russia. that's not a choice we're asking them to make. it's a false choice premised on an outdated, zero-sum view of the world. unfortunately, this is exactly the choice that president putin wants to impose on these countries. as long as this remains the case, there will be tension with russia that no amount of happy
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rhetoric or resets in relations can rectify. for the past two decades, administrations of both parties have sought to cooperate with russia where possible and compete with russia where necessary. the unfortunate reality is that despite our best intentions and efforts, there is more competition than cooperation. we must face this reality squarely, and we must be willing to support our partners when they face undue russian pressure for making their own sovereign decisions. now, many americans will ask, why should we care? why should we care what happens to a country like ukraine? why does that affect our national interests? here's why. for the entirety of the last century, the united states and our friends and allies pursued the vision of a europe whole and free and at peace. we sacrificed our resources and shed our blood for it time and time again. and we did so not simply because
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this vision of europe's future is just and right, though it's both, but also because it's the only path to lasting stability on the continent. because it benefits our people economically and because ultimately it makes our nation safer. despite growing challenges in the middle east and asia and other parts of the world, we cannot forget that this work of a europe whole, free, and at peace is not finished. this struggle continues today in ukraine and moldova and georgia and the baltics and other countries in eastern europe. we must be no less committed now than before in pursuing our national interests of a europe whole, free, and at peace. and supporting the right of all countries to share the benefits of it. that includes russia. this vision has always drawn europeans and americans, ukrainians and americans together. we see evidence of that all around us. just a mile west of here off of
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dupont circle is a statue of the great ukrainian poet. it was dedicated nearly 50 years ago by president eisenhower, who expressed his hope that the statue would, quote, rekindle a new world movement in the hearts, minds, words, and actions of men, a never ending movement dedicated to the independence and freedom of peoples of all captive nations of the entire world. after eisenhower spoke, a ukrainian chorus led the assembled crowd in singing one of his most famous poems, which concludes with this plea. oh, bury me, then rise up and break your heavy chains and water with the tyrant's blood the freedom you have gained and in the great new family, the family of the free, with softly spoken kindly word, remember also me. america will always remember
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ukraine, and we will always support the peaceful aspirations of her people as we do on behalf of all people in europe and beyond. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> senator mccain, thank you so much for that remarkable and very important speech. not only on ukraine but on hind europe whole and free. i'm damon wilson, vice president of the atlantic council. we have a few minutes to have a conversation about your trip and the remarks you delivered. i want to remind everybody they're free to tweet, #acukraine, as fred mentioned. you've just delivered a speech. you laid out six principles, if you will, to guide our way forward. you offered broader remarks about russia, about russia's strategy, about u.s. and
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european strategy and the eastern partnership in general. we have many ambassadors, representatives from many of those countries here today. let me bring you back to your trip for a moment. you spent some time with president yanukovych with senator murphy. what's he trying to achieve here? what did you take away from your conversation with him in terms of his motivation, his goals? in essence, he was preparing his country, over two years, for this process of concluding the agreement with the eu, only to surprise them with this turn around toward the end before the summit. how did your conversation leave you in terms of understanding where do you think he's trying to go, what is he trying to achieve? >> on sunday night, we spent 2 1/2 hours from 9:30 at night until after 11:00 with president yanukovych. about 95% of the conversation
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was about the technicalities associated with any negotiations that he might have with russia or with the eu. there was about one minute's worth of condemnation of the protesters in the square. i got the distinct impression that president yanukovych is either insensitive to or not concerned about or doesn't understand the impact of a million or two, depending on what numbers you use estimates, of his fellow citizens demonstrating in a way that is peaceful but certainly one which has to be viewed as very incredibly impressive. i've never seen anything like it in my life. i think he also, though, did realize that to out of hand
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reject membership in the eu would have been a catalyst that would have caused real disruptions. and he also, i think, realized that an announcement of agreement with the customs union would have had that same effect. so i think he's kind of walking a middle ground here, accepting the money in a bailout, hoping that people would be satisfied with that. i don't think they're going to be satisfied. here's why. membership in the eu was not what got millions of ukrainians to demonstrate. that's a kind of -- in some ways, you could view that as a technical matter. but what membership in the eu meant was an alignment with europe rather than russia. it meant an outcry against the corruption that now besets the entire country. you know, that president yanukovych now lives in a home that's estimated to be $100
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million. it's estimated that his son, who is a dentist, is now a billionaire. now, i know that dentistry is a lucrative business, but -- and of course the corruption that permeates the country is something that -- and they look at their lives and their standard of living versus that in europe, versus that in russia. and so these demonstrations weren't just, quote, to join the eu. they were demonstrations as to what the direction and correction of the path that their country is on. that's the only way you get people in sub-freezing weather to stand and demonstrate the way that they have. so, i don't know exactly what's going to happen next in the short term.
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i would think that president yanukovych would now tell the citizens they now have significant relief from the immediate breakdown of their economy because of their economic crisis they're in. and maybe that may satisfy some of their citizens. but i don't think it addresses the fundamental ambitions of most of the young people, particularly. all people, but in young people i saw, there's a degree of fervor that's impassioned, that's quite remarkable. but i know one thing i am confident of, and any economist or anyone who's aware of the ukrainian economy will tell you, and that is $15 billion is a band-aid. it's not stopping the bleeding.
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they have to enact the fundamental changes in how their economy does business, and that means compliance with imf demands for the fundamental changes in their economy. and second of all, i mean, the corruption -- i mean, it has got to be addressed. the corruption has got to be addressed. they don't see that with this agreement with russia. in fact, the opposite. >> senator, let me pick up on that and turn to the opposition. you also spent time with opposition leaders, the three principle opposition leaders. you've talked about never seeing anything quite like the energy. we had seen a version in 2004 in the orange revolution. how do folks watching ukraine -- how to the ukrainians themselves not fear a déjà vu experience of an opportunity where in 2004 a
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host of leaders came to power who brought the promise and the prospect of a democratic european ukraine, but because of in fighting, because of corruption that plagued their own administration failed to deliver on that decision and brought ukraine to where we are today. how did you take away in your conversations with today's opposition leaders how this has the potential to be different? >> i think that the orange revolution was primarily aimed at their own leadership and all of the things that were undemocratic. i think this, quote, revolution, is more against russia and a desire to join europe. i think there is some difference
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there. and i also think that this group of opposition, they are in favor of freeing -- as i am and all of us have been. but they want to happen after they have replaced the government. and it is a demand to have her go to germany for medical treatment. we all know her health is very poor. but that is not the central issue as far as what their agenda is concerned. also, they have a legitimate concern about the betrayal of the revolution that frankly took place in 2004 and 2005. and they don't want that to
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happen again. i have great sympathy for them. i also see that this path to democracy is a very difficult one, and we've seen other countries go forward and then back and then forward again. so i think they have learned a lesson from the orange revolution. >> senator, you made the link that if you're sitting in moscow, you have to be concerned, quite concerned, scared of what might be happening in ukraine because ultimately what does this mean about the future of russia. bring us back to -- you had quite strong words about both president putin's strategy as well as the issue of u.s. leadership on this. if this is a broader -- if there are broader dynamics here in play, what do we do?
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what do we do with a russia right now led by a putin that feels confident that is ascendant in a way, hasn't been in the middle east in decades, is about to host the world community in sochi, feels as if he has the upper arm in ukraine. the senate has acted and spoke within things like the magnitsky act and others, but in addition to just calling out and complaining and putting a spotlight on what's happening in russia, what's a strategy vis-a-vis moscow, vis-a-vis russia, long term, medium term that can take this in a different direction, that gives hope for more than just confrontation over countries like ukraine. >> first of all, could i say i appreciate it, and far more portly, ukrainian people appreciated the statement secretary of state john kerry made. that was, i think, very welcome. second of all, i think that tori nuland has done an outstanding job in this whole crisis, and our ambassador there has done a fine job. but i think that the first thing we need to do is understand who
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and what we are dealing with. tell vladimir i'm going to be more flexible. that's going to go down in history along with tell bashar assad the strike will be unbelievably small. that will be right up there. and if you like your health insurance, you can keep it. those are three of my favorite of recent years. so, you know -- and it isn't just this administration. the last administration too. i looked into putin's eyes and saw his soul. this is not a man with a soul. this is a kgb colonel who's risen to the top of a greasy pole. and we must understand who we are dealing with. all these years medvedev was the guy. didn't anybody know he was the puppet?
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didn't anybody know who really was the dictator for life in russia? so we have to have a fundamental understanding of what we're dealing with. that doesn't mean confrontation. doesn't mean reignition of the cold war. but it means speaking up, and it means supporting people like in georgia right now. did you know every few months the russians move the fence further and further into georgian territory? and what do we say? nothing. do we know that moldova is being pressured enormously? this tiny little country. and most of all, we have to understand that ukraine is where russia began in kiev is the key, the crown jewel to the near abroad. so what happens in ukraine is incredibly vital.
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so we need to speak up for these people as john kerry did. we need to make sure that we are there to assist as they make this very difficult transition. and so it's not, again a confrontation. it's not tanks on the border. for us to believe that vladimir putin is going to give up ukraine to the west without a fight and exercise many options, i think, is sheer foolishness. so we have to understand what we're dealing with here. and we're dealing with an individual who wants to restore the near abroad. ask the lithuanian, ask the latvians, georgia. ask any of those countries on the periphery, and they'll tell you they're under nearly constant pressure from russia and from vladimir putin. so what would he do? there are many scenarios. you could see some problems
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there. you could see problems in the east. i don't think -- obviously, putin's not going to send in tanks, but he certainly can cause great difficulties and unrest in that country. and the best anecdote is solid western support, assistance with the imf loan and receipt of their application, an open door to an application to join the eu. >> thank you, senator. i don't want to monopolize the conversation. i'm going to turn to the audience. we've got -- in fact, our ambassadors from moldova and georgia, two countries you've mentioned. we've been focused on the pressure they're now under and doing programming here at the atlantic council with them. as a bipartisan place, i'm going to start with the first folks i saw. let me turn and ask if we could have a mic up here for bruce jackson. please identify yourself for our tv audience and keep your
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question brief. then i'll turn to mike, who i saw second to follow up. >> bruce jackson, project on transitional democracies. senator, in addition to the opposition and the administration, you also met with the business leaders on both sides of the issue in kiev, you and senator murphy probably met with more business leaders than any senior americans have ever done. is there is a future in russia? is there a future in europe? >> thank you, bruce. i probably should have mentioned that in my remarks. it sort of varies to the degree of which they have been affected by russia. now, one of the oligarchs whose empire was based originally on chocolate, and since that has been cut off, embargoed by putin and the russians, that has more of an effect. i got the impression that
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they're very smart men. i got the impression that they are watching carefully the flow of events. and there have been guarded remarks supporting the demonstrators but not calling for a change in government or even specifically a change in government policy. so i think that they're going to primarily weather vane as to how the course of events take place. i also think that on the one hand, they would view economic reforms as a threat to the virtual monopolies they have in certain aspects of ukrainian economy. but on the other hand, they see the economic benefits to being part of the eu, which dramatically are better than the economic ties to russia. so they're kind of balancing
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that out. do not underestimate how smart they are. we think of oligarch is some big fat guy smoking a cigar. they're not. they're smart, they're intelligent. they've gotten to the top of the economy with fierce competition, and i think that at least four of the five i met with will go when they see which way the wind is blowing. right now they're not really sure. >> mike, please. >> thank you. mike, johns hopkins center. thank you for your leadership in foreign affairs. not just this past weekend, but in general. senator, i'd like to pick up on what you said about standing up to putin and your answer to damon's question and ask you to comment on a suggestion or two. first suggestion, work with the
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eu for the united states and the eu jointly to bring a suit before the world trade organization against russia for violating the cardinal principle of the organization, namely that a country is not allowed to use its economy as a political weapon. secondly, make clear to putin that there's a price to be paid for these sorts of behaviors and at least temporarily block their application to join the oecd. third, within environmentally acceptable bounds, and this is more of a medium-term suggestion, continue to stimulate shell gas exploration so that over time the russians' chief economic weapon will be undercut. fourth, and this goes to a different part of europe, but it does have to do with russia's behavior as a neighbor. quietly make clear to our good
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friends and de facto allies, sweden and finland, that the best way to guarantee stability in the north of europe is to join nato. if you could comment on these, i'd be very grateful. thank you. >> thanks, mike. >> i think on the suit in the eu and oecd, i think we would have to use some powers of persuasion amongst our european friends. although, they are becoming more and more concerned as we are when they see the events that we've already been talking about taking place on the so-called near abroad. i think you touched on something really important on the shale
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gas. we all know that the united states of america is now a net exporter of energy. we are seeing the entire equation of energy thanks to fracking and shale gas reversed. and this has profound impacts throughout the world, including how dependent we are on the middle east for our energy supplies. but more importantly, i know of every expert i've talked to who's said that if the price of the barrel of oil goes down below $80 a barrel, then the russian economy is in very serious trouble. it's hydrocarbons propping up mr. putin. i'm curious what the average russian is thinking today about giving the ukrainians $15 billion. i'm sure they're impressed with his generosity. but -- and as far as the nato issue is concerned, i don't think sweden would ever contemplate such action, but i
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do believe that georgian membership in nato would have a progress towards that would have a very significant impact. particularly in light of the new government, the peaceful transition. although, not without problems, but the transition that has been made in georgia. if they renewed their application as far as nato's concerned, i think that would have a very significant effect. >> we just have a few minutes left. i want to pick up these two ladies here, if i may. >> thank you so much. thank you so much for coming to ukraine. it's very, very helpful for ukrainian people to know that the u.s. is standing by its side. you mentioned the sections on those individuals who will engage in future violence. what people are hoping for right
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now, and it's really important for them, is that eu and u.s. would be able to introduce sanctions on those individuals who already engaged in violence and in repressions, which might not necessarily be criminal, but pressure on the business of those individuals who participate. and also, if eu and u.s. would be able to go after the regime, those which were obtained in a corrupt way in the framework of anti-corruption investigations. it's estimated that annually the family is obtaining about $8 billion to $10 billion from the budget. >> dentistry is a very lucrative profession, yes. >> so are those hopes -- can something be done? can people -- what would be the answer to people hoping for that? >> thank you. and let me pick up the question here back to back. >> two quick points following on
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this about the sanctions. i'm sure you're aware the whole issue of scapegoating. some of what we're seeing, i think, is reminiscent of what we saw under president kuchma when our government would be talk about corruption. the answer would be that they'd fired some lower-level employee or mayor. that's one. the second is there's a lot of talk about what russia is doing pressuring ukraine. on the other hand, what are we doing to express our concern about this when we hear about us purchasing russian helicopters? >> thank you. we'll bring both those back to you, senator. >> good point. >> i know it's been canceled. >> it was only canceled because of congress, not the administration, the purchase of the russian helicopters, as you know.
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on the issue of the demonstrators, we have been assured that those demonstrators who are under detention will be released. if there is further violence against the demonstrators, i am confident that the administration and the congress would move forward with legislation if there's further violence. as far as the reforms are concerned, i think we would have -- i'm not sure that would be sufficient reason to generate sanctions early enough. you pointed out they fired the mayor of kiev, and the mayor of kiev had nothing to do with the violence against the demonstrators and that's true. i think we need to proceed
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carefully. we need to proceed with measured steps. we need to make sure that we are not giving the russians propaganda, that we are now intervening in the internal affairs of a country. i think we have to be very careful and measured in the steps that we take and not react in an emotional fashion. look, i am absolutely appalled by what putin has done, and i pointed out those factors. but i think we have to be very careful that we are not appearing to be just seeking confrontation. we all know americans are tired because of iraq and afghanistan. so we're going to have to display a firm but in some ways patient addressing of our relations. by the way, i just want to mention again, just in the last
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few days literally, we now hear of missiles in kaliningrad, and we hear of a russian decision to put missiles on rail, which obviously is a strategic move which they had rejected a short time ago. so watch many of the things putin is doing is extremely they are extremely aggressive. not to mention that mr. snowden is sticking a thumb in our eye. i think we just have to understand who and how we're dealing with it. i don't think we can portray that we're the world's policeman and we're going to go out and put out every fire. but we do have to be firm and take measures, preferably, most preferably with our allies that we support and they support, and that obviously in this case is a european community. so i know that some people have accused me of doing a quote,
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defense hawk, and all that. i think when we look back at other presidents, republican and democrat, who have been very firm in their decisions, taking actions both measured and effective, that is the best way to deal with this. i think there are some people that said the reason why putin is behaving like he did is because there is no penalty for it. there should be penalties measured, and appropriate penalties measured for actions that putin takes particularly in this so-called near abroad. so i really -- was inspired by these young people. and if there is any doubt about how you think they feel about russia, the leader of the demonstration, when they all turned on their cell phone
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lights, it was an amazing thing to see. and then the guy said if you don't like russia, jump, it is interesting to see a quarter million people all jumping. jumping up and down in freezing -- in freezing weather. look, we are a western nation. these young people like the same lousy music. they have the same atrocious attire, they have, as our young people are, they are aligned with the west and europe. they see russia and they don't want to be part of that society. and so that is why i am optimistic that at the end of the day, we're going to see a free and democratic ukraine.
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but i think right now at this particular juncture, it might be good for us to continue our message of support to these people who are seeking a government that is free of corruption, that they think truly represents them. and i don't think that is an outrageous stand for the united states of america to take. and could i also -- i see a lot of old friends and enemies here. so i want to thank all of you for being here today. and i thank you for engagement. and there is one thing i would like to do, is to alert the american people how important a faraway country is to the united states of america and the things we stand for and believe in. >> well, senator, mccain, if i can say i think you accomplished just that by going to the ukraine at a critical time as developments are unfolding. we can't thank you enough for coming back here to the council to continue to help shine a
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spotlight on these issues. as fred mentioned, we have had a chance to host you several times, you deliver pretty important messages whether it has been on the future of the alliance, on syria, on the democracy promotion itself, and now on europe and the ukraine. and we're grateful for that, on your strong voice on the issues and the leadership on them, and for focusing on what can be done to advance our common issues here. so as the senator paid tribute, it sounded like you had a chance to meet with the ukraine pop star -- love the music. we're playing live stream on our screens in the lobby. so as you exit take a look at what is playing out in kiev right now. and on this screen we have just amazing shots of you, senator, on the hundreds of thousands of protest protesters with their cell phones on.
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so please join me in thanking senator mccain for his time. >> thank you so much. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> i am ceo of the atlantic council. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013]
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>> on our next "washington journal," we will speak with jim
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nussle. then a look ahead at the congressional agenda for 2014 plus the 2014 -- 2016 election. the center for american progress joins us. later, discussion on how a 15 -- how 15-year-old u.s. students score against their peers in reading math and science. will join us. we will also take your calls and tweets. eachington journal" morning at 7:00 eastern on c- span. the architect of the u.s. capitol held a press conference yesterday to given up date on the u.s. capitol restoration dome project. the two-year project began last month with the majority of work to be conducted at night and on weekends to avoid major distraction to congress and
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public tours. this is 25 minutes. >> good morning, thank you all for coming. my name is justin kiefer. ayers will comment on the project and answer a few questions. all that documents, photos, and videos are available on our website. mr. ayers, t architect of the capitol. it that youu for all for being here. take you for your interest in the capital dome project. capitol,ect of the what an awesome responsibility it is to preserve these beautiful, iconic, and treasured
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buildings the american people and the congress have entrusted to our care. none of them is more important than this beautiful capital dome. i thought today we would talk a little bit about the restoration of the dome. let me start maybe with a little bit of history to set at in context. photograph of when the capitol building was complete and ever went it was complete in 1924. then, of course, westward expansion happened and more senators and more members of congress and the congress outgrew this wonderful capital building. came onstig walther board and design the extension to the capital. there have been two domes atop the capital. this first don't by charles beaufinch, architect of the capitol, was made of wood and copper.
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, theng the history congress was so concerned about the number of very significant fires in the capitol building at the time and wanted to get rid of that potential fire hazard. that is one of the reasons that led to this new cast-iron and fireproof dome. thomas a photograph by that heig walter hung in his office while the wings of the capital were under construction. he was never commissioned to design a new don't but he thought with the capital nearly doubling in length that the old dome was out of scale and also this consensus that we needed to have a much more fireproof capitol building, he designed this new dome and honk this drawing in his office -- and honk is drawing in his office
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and members of congress would see it and were enamored with it. that quickly led to the first appropriation for the capital dome. here are some of walter's drawings of that wonderful cast- iron dome that he designed to make it look like masonry but it is fully of cast-iron. it is two domes. there is an inner cast-iron dome and outer cast-iron dome. drawing on in the the right that not only are these working drawings of the time am a are really pieces of artwork today. they are beautifully drawn and water colored as well. received an initial $100,000 appropriation for the dome. he quickly commenced design and construction work. here is the cast-iron dome being constructed in the midst of the civil war. i'm sure you know the story that
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during the civil war, the contractor and the supplier of the cast-iron and the builder was notified that they could no longer be paid for their work and they should stop work. with over one million pounds of cast-iron sitting on the ground in front of the capital, they decided they were going to continue working. president lincoln picked up on that fact and made a great the construction would continue, so will our union. as we commence this restoration of the dome, it has not and done in 50 years. this is a photograph of the last restoration of the dome from 1959-1960. you can see the red color of the priming material that was used at the time that -- and the dome was scaffolded at the same time that the east front was
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extended. studying the condition of the dome and studying the condition of the various cracks for well over 10 years. in 1991, there was a major water leak into the rotunda that led to an intensive study of the condition of the dome that led to a master plan mid-ome repairs in the 1990s and during that time, there was some three or 400 cracks we were able to identify. we were inspecting it every two or three years and the number of cracks grew and grew. 2012, there were nearly 1300 cracks and broken and missing pieces of the cast- iron shell of the dome. it's important to note that
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these were water leaks into the dome and water and cast-iron does not work well together. incursionss of water and cast-iron continues to rust and rust and make conditions worse. with nearly 1300 cracks and we see the pace of cracking and deterioration accelerating, we thought it was important now after 50 years to intervene and do some preservation work on the dome. here is a few images -- the kinds of things you can see if you hung from the outside of the dome. these things are very difficult if not impossible to see from the ground. you see many of these pieces in front of you and very significant cracking of the cast-iron panels and ornamentation. here is a piece of an acorn, a decorative piece, that is on the capital dome and some of the
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decoration around the acorn that has fallen off. we have well over 100 pieces that have fallen or we have taken off the dome to keep it safe. of a series of cracks, many of them from previous repairs in 1959 or 1960 and many of them from just the accelerated deterioration from the cast-iron and water process. you can see here some of our inspection work ongoing. we have been doing that for many years now, very carefully watching and monitoring the condition of the dome and taking pieces off before they would fall to ensure the safety and security of our employees as well as visitors to the capital. we have awarded a construction contract. we did that in october of this year. work is commencing.
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like any project, as you might do in your home, it is the planning and preparation that probably takes as long as the work itself. our contractor and our team and our team of consultants has been working for a couple of months now, working out the details, awarding subcontracts, making [no audio] [inaudible] , and making methods of work in that process will continue through the winter months and we would expect to see scaffolding, visible scaffolding going up this spring. i wanted to show you how these repairs might be made. how would you fix the crack on a piece of cast-iron that is 250 feet up in the air? you can see in the video we are using was called a lock and stitch technique. we will actually drill out the crack and tap each of those pin holes and put in a
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and a series of pins that stitch along the crack and perpendicular to the pins we will put in a series of locks that hold that stitch together. withrked extensively contractors as well as the national institutes of standards and technology over the course of 10 years to evaluate welding techniques, a wide variety of welding, a wide variety of repair techniques and finally found that this particular strongest as the well as the technique that was most viable when you are working in conditions well over 200 feet in the air. this is what the dome will actually look like when it is scaffolded this spring. there will be a work area on the north west front of the capital
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and then a scaffolding built up and bridged over the west front network platform built around the base of the dome on the roof of the capital building. then you will see scaffolding scaffoldingngs of from the base of the paristol though the [inaudible] actual --the sections actively being worked at the time and they will be taken off 11 or 12 or 13 layers of lead they spain's and that has to be --tained -- led-they stood led-based paint and that really moved around the dome over the course of two years as we undertake that work. this is what it will look like at night.
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much of the work will be happening at night and that's what it will look like. the first thing that you will actually see is this protective piece of fabric going up inside the rotunda. a covered loft way on the floor of the rotunda to protect our visitors and guests and staff as they go about moving back and forth through the rotunda as we install this canopy system. this canopy system will stay in place for the duration of the project. you will still be able to see the apotheosis of washington, the beautiful paintings in the rotunda will be covered for a few weeks as this is installed but then they will be opened back up once it is installed. this is a safety measure, a protective measure, as work is going on on the outer shell of the dome. this ensures that nothing can happen to anyone inside the dome. that is the first thing you will
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see in the next month or two after that, we will continue the planning and preparation process and construct the laydown area on the north west front of the capitol and then scaffolding will commence in the spring of 2014. with that, i am happy to try to answer any questions any of you may have. yes? how are you going to ensure that the $50 million appropriated for this will be the budget and you will not go over? >> the best way to ensure that a project stays on schedule is ensuring you have a great plan up front. the time you invest in the planning stage equals the success on the ultimate construction project. we have a really good plan in place. we have a great contractor, a great team of consultants and i
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think, more importantly, we were able to do a pilot project, the first phase of this, as you may recall, the skirts of the capitol dome was done a year ago. during that pilot and first phase project, we think we learned and mastered how to fix it. we learn the things that could come up that we may not anticipate. we folded all of those lessons learned into our contract today. we are pretty confident that we can get it done in two years and certainly done before the next residential inauguration. >> can you guarantee you will not go over budget? >> guarantee is a big word. we are pretty confident, i will give you that. thank you. >> a lot of the damage seems to be to the ornamental decorations. sound?structure itself has any of that actually fallen off? i will address the second
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question first -- none of the pieces have actually fallen. through our inspections, we have been able to take these pieces off before they actually fall to the ground. none of them have fallen. if they would, they would puncture holes in the upper roof of the capitol building. we have been very deliberate about taking them off before they fall to the ground. the capital is in great structural condition. we have looked at it and had our structural engineering team look at it on several occasions and studied it extensively. it is in great structural condition. it is not in any way unsafe at all. the pieces you see are really ornamental pieces as well as pieces that create water leaks. it is this water leak that is
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the real problem. water can get in and it causes continued rust but also water can get in and damage the beautiful frescoes and paintings that are in the rotunda. yes? >> it's one of the most recognizable landmarks we have. what was your concern about how it would look during the renovation project? what additional life do you think you give to the structure by doing this? >> it is one of the most if not the most recognizable symbols across the globe. to select a careful contractor that was going to carefully scaffold the dome. we are not going to do anything that is too artistic. we think it's that or to spend the money more wisely on repairing the specific cracks and making the best use of the money that has been provided to us. if you saw the images, i think the scaffolding does not look bad. so --
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it is certainly not going to be great over the next two years but when we do take the scaffolding back down, the quality of materials that are used in today's construction processes are much better than they were 50 years ago, the polyurethanesur and -- we will get more than 50 years out of this restoration than we did out of the previous one. yes ma'am? >> do you have the name of the contractor? >> that contractor is turner- smoot, a joint venture. between two construction companies. >> what is the status of the funding? have all the monies been appropriated? >> yes, the money has been approved and it is in hand. talk more about the process of repairing the cracks? you talked about drilling out a damaged area and putting in a
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pin in the pin would be made out of what material? >> it is steel. i will use a piece of an example. example, for a crack like this, there are a series of drill holes. the entire length is drilled out but it is drilled and tapped in a very specific order. you may start here and here and here and here and then you go through a successive series of pin insertions. in the end, the entire length of this crack has a series of pins that create a stitch. ,hese pins are then ground down smooth but the surface, and then there is a series of locks that go perpendicular to the stitch this way. they are drilled out and embedded into both sides of the
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cast iron, ground down, and and polyurethaned.ed >> was the contract put out for bid? yes, we advertise our contracts on federal business opportunities website and multiple contractors bid on the job. >> number two, what risk are you seed your plan? nothing is perfect but what are you most worried about? such an you scaffold large building, to me, it is the scaffolding system that is probably the riskiest part of this. secondly, a few of the things we learned on the construction of the first phase of this, the skirt phase, is that the timeliness about which you have
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to go about this repair technique -- what i mean by that is after you take all of the paint and primer off the dome, the cast iron of this generation flash rusts in eight hours. the timeliness of the application is important. we have to have those processes down very well so that we don't have to double do work. >> what about the scaffolding gives you mild concerns? >> the fact that it is a massive scaffolding project, i think -- getting that scaffolding here, lifting it up to the roof of the dome, and then getting it installed and taken back down is just a massive logistical effort. that is probably one of the biggest risks on the job. >> when they did the reflecting pool in the mall, they used fairly exotic technology to keep
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the algae out and later we saw algae forming. is there any exotic techniques that you will try here that are not tested? >> know, there are no exotic techniques we're using. we tested many, many repair techniques over the course of to help advise us and test a wide variety of repair techniques. some of those were fairly exotic. some of those were fairly benign. we ultimately found this lock and stitches the most reliable way to fix the cracks in the dome in situ. >> getting back to the scaffolding, out of curiosity, you said the scaffolding is a monumental project. at any point, did you consult with them in terms of the best way?
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of preservation and preserving the visitor experience. >> we aren't certainly great -- we are certainly great partners with the park service and share our plans with them. we did not consult pacific lake on the construction -- we did not consult specifically on the construction of the capitol dome of the park service but we certainly looked at several other partners, companies and local municipalities, that have done similar work. similarly, after we finished the dome skirt, there have been other dome restoration projects that have consulted us on the repair techniques of our dome. it is certainly a collaborative process. can we get one more? >> you mentioned 1200 cracks in there now and it could allow water damage. has there been any water damage inside the capital? does the two-year timeline include the scaffolding until spring 2016? >> it does include the planning
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that is underway. we expect two years from beginning to end from contract award to contract completion. it does include that. >> the water damage? >> there certainly is water damage in the capital today. many of those water leaks you see from cracks, we managed those by capturing that water through a series of water pans inside the exterior dome and shoot that water back out or take it to the ground. we have been working to manage it over the years. some of it does continue to come in. you can see that both in the interstitial spaces between the dome and the outer dome and the rotunda itself. if you look closely, you can see water damage and water staining. thank you, everybody. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013]
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>> as a moderate in the privacy debate and in the privacy world, i have come to a troubling conclusion. the data broker industry as it is today, does not have constraints and does not have shame. it will sell any information about any person regardless of sensitivity for 7.9 cents per name which is the price of a list of rape sufferers which was recently sold. victims rape sufferers, of domestic violence, the lease addresses, people who suffer from genetic illnesses, complete with names, home addresses, ethnicity,
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gender, and many other factors -- that is what is being sold and circulated today. it is a far cry from visiting a website and seeing an ad. what it is is a sale of the personally identifiable information and highly sensitive information of americans. >> this weekend on c-span, your medical history, income, your lifestyle -- the senate commerce committee looks into data mining saturday morning at 10:00 bookrn on c-span two's tv, without a strong middle class, the u.s. is heading toward and keep in -- toward economic implosion that will seem the -- that will make the great depression seem tame. on c-span three's american history tv, by august 1945, it was already becoming clear that a struggle for global dominance from world war ii cold war sunday at 7:30 p.m. eastern.
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journal" begins in a moment. on c-span two, the senate will vote this morning on the irs commissioner nominee and take a on janet yellen to be federal reserve chairman. on c-span three, the hudson institute will look at the saudi relationship. live coverage is at 10:00 eastern. will talk withwe the former irishman and white house budget director jim nussle on the two-year judge it to pass by the house and senate and then a look ahead to the congressional agenda for 2014 and next year's elections. the center for american progress joins us. later, a discussion on health 15-year-old u.s. students score against their international
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peers in math and science. buckley fromjack the national center of education statistics and robert rothman from american education. host then -- the senate passed a budget deal. nominateden has been to be head of the fed. the senate will turn -- will adjourn by the end of the day. here are some of the recent news articles about capitol hill and congress. on obamaaches deal nominees. the senate reached a deal on several key

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