tv Reasons for Terrorism CSPAN March 29, 2014 8:00pm-9:19pm EDT
their stories with edward snowden, because they say they fear arrest or being subpoenaed. they discuss the impact of the edward snowden documents primetime monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span. a discussionnext, a discussion e reasons behind terrorism. the representatives of national basketball association talk about sports and diplomacy. after that, the executive director of the american legion on veterans benefits claims. there's a course on terrorism and communications at the university of central florida. he wrote a book on the topic and taught at a base in belgium. his research was cited why the u.s. supreme court in 2011. he discusses the reasons for terrorism. they were asked to cancel this event, saying that it promoted the fears of muslims.
we will talk to an expert on this subject and the author of the new book, and then we will talk to the audience about the 15 points he brings up. it is my pleasure to introduce our speaker, the author on the same topic, ladies and gentlemen, dr. jonathan matusitz. >> thank you, thank you. >> a little bit of background for those who perhaps have not heard you or seen you before. what led you to write and speak about this subject? >> most books on terrorism are in criminal justice. very few are in communication.
there was no big book mixing both fields. i took the opportunity to write a book and sage, the social sciences publishers said yes, we will publish it. >> we will go through the 15 points. i am asking him to outline where and why this happens. we just came off the olympics. what was the number one worry for the participants and the visitors -- with their bridge terrorism there? >> sochi is located where caspian's used to live. they were in ethnic minority group and in 1864, february of 1864 -- if you do the math, exactly 150 years before the olympics. they were discriminated and many were killed by the russians. the fact that the russians were
holding the olympics there were a good way for them to wreak revenge. the main concern was terrorism as a form of retaliation. >> there were no major incidences -- there was a war happening just outside the perimeter. were you surprised there were no acts of terrorism? >> the russian secret police was very good at foiling these attacks. >> your ground is you are from belgium? >> that is correct. i was born and raised in belgium. >> how many languages do you speak? >> three. french, dutch, and english. >> what brought you here? >> the land of opportunity. i wanted to come to america. i got here in 2000. i have been living here for 14 years. from belgium to hear? >> no. uc of hired me and the summer of 2006. i have lived here for seven and
a half years. >> he reminded me it was about two years ago -- he was in the audience and came up and gave me his card and i started watching the classes you were teaching in the events you were doing and then when we were putting the series together, the topic of homeland security here at embry riddle, we thought we should do
this. that is how we came to do this tonight. >> it is good to see a lot of adults and a lot of young people. i give a lot of talks like this. here there are a lot of young people. thank you for being here. >> let's talk about the 15 points. let's go through them one at a time to read where in the world are these reasons for being employed? i'm going to do religion at the end, i will just tell you. it is huge and opens up for >> other things. but you list a question. give us an example please. >> the best example from the 1990's to today, oppression leads to revenge. a lot of the chechen terrorists say the russian army oppresses them. and a lot of chechen men get killed by the russians. a lot of the wives, the widows to come suicide bombers. we call them the black widows, like the spider. it's a colorful metaphor. the chechen black widows feel
oppressed and seek revenge against the russians. most of the suicide bombers in chechnya are actually female. >> historical grievances. this is interesting. it can take on all kinds of life. >> pfister urkel grievances refers to a wrong that needs to be repaired, needs to be restored. it is a group of people that need to get even with the enemy, even though the wrong was committed 1000 years ago. for example, the basque terrorist group eta. they want to regain their territory and they want to have their own independent state, and they say france and spain stole their territory. we have the palestinians as an example of historical grievances. we have the ira. they want to get back six counties from northern ireland. their main slogan is "brits out." >> a few years ago we would hear about terrorism in ireland. we do not hear that so much now.
>> the ira is very active today. in fact some of them have become members of the british are limited. they were bigger in the 1960's and 1970's. >> i was reading weeks ago, -- several weeks ago in american history. there were terrorist acts from mexico into the united states. there was resentment, i guess, of the territorial status and i think it was black back -- blackjack pershing. >> absolutely. the mexican drug lords are joining forces with groups like has a lot -- hezbollah. >> stay with that. don't they know how dangerous these folks can be? >> they operate on the principle of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. and the common enemy for hezbollah and mexican drug lords is america. they will have a common denominator.
in this case, it is america. >> moving right along -- the 15 reasons -- violations of international laws. >> that is the perception that countries did not fulfill the promises. for example great britain promised palestinians that the palestinians would have a lot of rights and the palestinian people feel that britain betrayed them. that is an example thomas the one that you mentioned. during the treaty of her sigh -- her sigh -- versailles, they made promises to arab countries and those thomas's were not fulfilled. >> the bosnian conflicts, does that fall under the international war -- >> historical grievances. the bosniak's are bosnian
muslims. bosnian muslims and bosnian serbs have never gotten along. the bosnian serbs killed a lot of bosniak's and raped a lot of women. a war that killed 100,000 people. >> wow. relative to probation. >> relative die privation is code for poverty. -- relative deprivation is code for poverty. their life on earth, as you can imagine is miserable. because they live in abject misery, they will join suicide commandos in martyrdom operations. which is code for suicide operations. when you join the suicide commandos, your family is from us $2000 and tuition for your children. the hijackers came from saudi arabia and the main leader was 33. he came from egypt. there is not always a correlation between poverty and terrorism. there is some correlation.
>> when you discuss these points in your classrooms, what is the reaction from your students? i saw channel nine report about your class, and they came out and they were all very supportive, but do they understand the information you are giving them? >> this is a tough subject. i teach to mutation. of communication. they take culture, interpersonal communication. this class is about terrorism. that is a heck of a switch. some of them get taken back. wow. we talk about beheadings and war rapes. some of them are not offended by what i say. >> i should have asked you this upfront. how do you define terrorism? >> before i define terrorism, let me tell you where the word comes from. the word is 220 years old.
at the end of the french revolution in 1793-17 94, the guillotine was being used on anyone who did not agree with the government. what was the government called? the government of terror. the leaders of the government of terror were called terrorists. the word was used the first time by the people themselves -- we are the terrorists. the first and sense of the use in english was 7098. the end of the -- 1790 eight. the end of the 18th century. it has different meanings. for some of the chinese, the
monks from tibet are terrorists. they call themselves freedom fighters. we call them suicide bombers. they call themselves martyrs, heroes. two young muslims from holland looked at all the definitions. they said they would look at the commonalities. based on that, in 83.5% of all definitions, the word violence appeared and and 65% of all definitions the words political goals appeared and and 51% of all of these definitions causing
fear and terror appeared. finally 25 years ago, we a definition that was comprehensive, and that most governments would agree on and that division -- that definition was that terrorism is the use of fear and terror in order to reach political goals. >> were americans in our history ever accused of terrorism against each other? i think of acts against native americans, the klan? what are examples of terrorism within our own country? >> definitely the kkk. the lynchings. they have the special knife called the bowie knife. they would slash peoples throats. you have the aryan nation, and the aryan nation is a neo-nazi group. very racist against blacks and jews. the oklahoma bombing -- it was only 26 years old when he committed that horrifying act. i got my doctorate close to the oklahoma city bombing. in 2002, i went to the site and it's really in the boondocks. timothy mcveigh chose a building -- he chose a building in the boondocks because he knew he would receive the attention from anybody. when i lived in belgium, i did not know what oklahoma was. is that a new band? finally oklahoma was on the map. it took a sad terrorist act to
put oklahoma on the map. >> simply to stay with that -- is there something happening in this country that is making people act out more in terrorist fashion? >> i would say the law enforcement in the u.s. have gotten better at foiling terrorist attacks. they have decreased sharply. there is an inverted relationship between the number of terror attempts and the number of successful terrorist attacks. >> do the people who are the terrorists somehow think, maybe i will not be the one who was caught? >> in some cases the terrorist does not think about that.
i am going to fulfill my mission. that is how they operate. they want to reach their goals. >> something you wrote called "hatred toward global hegemony --" >> hegemony is the scientific term for power. it is an anti-western sentiment, and anti-american, imperialism sentiment. it is a hatred of the west, a word used by the grand ayatollah khomeini. so, it is a terrorist sentiment against the world trade organization, against mcdonald's, a lot of the kfc restaurants up and blown up in pakistan. they do not like the idea of parking lots in some countries. dolls in some countries. they see it as cultural invasion and they are against it. >> you outline one of the reasons is the financial reward. how often does that happen? >> that does not happen very often.
most terrorist do not get paid for what they do. i gave you the example of the suicide bombers. they do not get a financial gain. they know their families, most of whom live in poverty, get some financial rewards. in south america there is a group in columbia -- colombia, and they are notorious for abducting people for ransom. they will adopt political figures. -- abduct political figures. >> stopping for a moment. all terrorism is not acts of violence. sometimes it's internet terrorism, banking terrorism, other things to put fear and suppression to people. is this going to become a new wave of terrorism that is much more common, striking through the internet and financial communities? >> cyber terrorism happens on an hourly basis. the pentagon gets hacked 5000 times a year by a chinese group, but of course, our side of things is really good at foiling any cyber terrorist attacks. if they succeed delving into computer networks, they can cause millions of dollars of damage. that does not happen very often. >> can you talk about an emt as -- an emp as a method of terrorism? >> it stands for electromagnetic pulse. it is launched like this, and as it flows up in the air, what it does is, it shuts down anything under its umbrella. anything that works on electricity, on waves, like your pacemaker, your cell phone.
it looks great on paper. if they launch an emp, we can launch one above it and it would shut down their emp. >> oh, really? we have a method to shut one down? >> let's hope it does not happen. it is cheap to make. it can be launched from cuba or venezuela. it looks good on paper. i doubt it will happen tomorrow. we know they want to do it. >> we know they want to do it, but there is the worry some developing countries that do not have the armament we do will launch one. >> they will accuse us of using nuclear weapons on them, even though it is not a nuclear weapon. that would be against the geneva conventions. under the geneva conventions, you should use tanks and rifles, nothing like emp's and nuclear weapons. >> i'm going through this material kind of quickly to give those of you a symbol tier two after questions of jonathan. another of the 15 reasons terrorists exist is racism.
i saw a video on youtube of the texas aryan brotherhood? >> yes, the texas aryan brotherhood is a neo-nazi group that formed in american prisons. there are neo-nazi groups that form. when they get out of prison, they have those cells that coalesce and lead to that group. it has been on the fbi list of terrorist's for the past 20 to 30 years. >> guilt by association? >> guilt by association is when you strike a target that has nothing to do with your enemy directly. i give you an example. madrid, so spain, 9/11. al qaeda killed 200 people by bombing for trains at the madrid
train station. why? why kill spanish people? spanish tourists? because spain had troops in a iraq. and people like osama bin laden were upset the west was in iraq. they saw the spanish people as helping george bush in iraq. that would be guilt by association. it could also be an example whereby a leader in africa is considered -- the leader does not help his people, so the local people think the leader is on the same side as america, as great britain.
that would be guilt by association. so you have rebellions against about leader. you see them in rwanda, in the congo, various african countries today. >> supports of sympathizers. >> that is when you kill people to expand your support base. until osama bin laden killed 3000 people on 9/11, very few people knew him, even in the muslim world. of course he became a household name after that event and his support increased. >> his support increased? >> oh, yeah. >> where were you on 9/11? >> i was in alaska. someone opened my door. "america is under attack." it was probably 5:00 in the afternoon. i was shocked like everybody. >> did you stay in alaska? >> i went to get my doctorate. >> during that time, did you feel that you needed to leave alaska? >> i was terrorized -- i was terrified, but i was not enough to leave the country. i was sad. >> mortality of failures. >> this is not a concept we confront every day. it asks the question, how should i die?
in the gaza strip, when a suicide bomber accomplishes his or her mission successfully, their face is shown on the street. his or her face is shown on the main street for weeks. for them it is like social status. >> but they are dead. they do this to be famous? >> do you think they care? they don't care. they want to please their god. they want to please their culture. >> they sacrifice themselves? >> absolutely. some of these people in gaza do not think the same way. to us it is unconscionable, unimaginable. if you watch documentaries on palestinian suicide bombers, this is what they are going to say. we love death the way you love life. >>wow. narcissism? >> there are people who have a big ego, a larger-than-life ego. they need to make themselves known. the lead a terrorist group. >> can you give me an example of that? >> an example of that would be better mine half, the red army faction -- badder meinhoff. these were successful students. they had a bright future. i don't know, they were bored
with life. they decided to create a terrorist movement, and anti-capitalist movement, anti-vietnam. now everybody knows who they were. that is a good example of narcissism. >> sensation seeking. >> sensation seeking follows the same train of thought. you have bungee jumping, skydiving. it is like the movie "goodfellas." you teach someone to be a mafia guy. i guess it is fun. >> this is more like gangs that really act out. we have some of that here. i want to say there is a number with it -- 21 or there is a group that identifies with a number, and it is popping all over the hundred. >> and they do it out of sensation? >> the failure to achieve diplomacy. >> the death of statecraft. when diplomacy fails.
>> when diplomacy fails, sometimes people resort to terrorism. >> the attack on pearl harbor that began world war ii for the united states. of these 14 so far, what would you define that as? >> i would not call that terrorism. that was more of an act of war. it was definitely a surprise attack. it was the japanese imperial army basically dropping bombs on pearl harbor. i would not call it terrorism. more an act of war. a surprise attack. >> so, surprise attack is not defined -- >> not in a context. >> here is the last one, the big one. religion. >> religion is the motivator for a lot of groups today to do what they do. you have islam. you have -- this is a group few people know, but it was a japanese terrorist group in the 1990's. it was a mixture of the eastern religions, buddhism, and new age. they said the whole world was wrong and only they knew the
whole truth. so, they wanted to obliterate the entire world by using a special kind of toxic gas, and the plan did not go as planned fortunately. it was called sarah and -- sarin. sarin gas. if you are exposed to it, you do not last long. they went to the subway. that was the tokyo subway. they released those capsules, but only 12 people died. the plan did not go as planned. that would be an example of a cook up religion that was made by the terrorist leader who was caught by the japanese and he is going to die by hanging. there is the massive force of islam. they get motivated by the koran. >> when chemical weapons were used in world war i -- >> it was mustard gas.
i know the german army used mustard gas in defiance of the geneva convention. during the treaty of versailles in 1919, germany was punished for many reasons, including that one. german troops were accused of using weapons that were unconventional, that were for bitten, that were cowardly weapons. >> how aware is the general population of how and where terrorism exists? >> 9/11 woke up a lot of people. a lot of people are aware. they definitely see the tip of the iceberg. the iceberg is $.99 -- 99% submerged. do they see the whole iceberg?
it would take a lot of attention to delve into a subject a lot of people are afraid of. i'm sure that virtually everyone has at general -- a general idea of what terrorism is. do they all understand why you have terrorism? no. that is why i am here, to explain. >> tell me this. in your opinion, is the united nations and effective mechanism to minimize terrorism? >> to minimize terrorism, no. the blue helmet of the human soldier -- a lot of them have no weapons. they are here to maintain social order. they are here to make us aware of the lack of sanitation for 2.5 billion people. our united nations soldiers -- our united nations soldiers effective at pushing back terrorist groups? no, they are not. >> an interview right here at embry riddle three years ago, hamas and his he were more dangerous -- hezbollah were more dangerous than anyone we were going to get. a sum of bin laden, any of the others. do you believe his he -- hezbollah and hamas are the biggest terrorist threats to united states? >> lets me start -- let me start
with hezbollah. it is a shia group. it is present in 100 groups, including mexico. they are joining forces with mexican drug lords. a lot of tunnels have been discovered in tijuana and san diego. not only do they smuggle weapons. they smuggle people. for the second one, hamas is less dangerous in north america, but they are definitely dangerous in the middle east. >> we are going to take questions from the audience. think of what you would like to ask. we are going to come left into right.
you can ask your questions of dr. matusitz for the next few moments. i want to ask this because it's very sensitive, but very important. there is -- i think a misperception when we put this program on that this was going to be an anti-islam night. the purpose was to educate and highlight the different fashions of terrorism, how it happens and why. there are peaceful muslims. i have friends who are of the islam faith. they are peaceloving people. do you -- you have had people protest almost every place you have gone to. why is that happening? >> some groups do not like it when people use terrorism and islam in the same sentence. we have a lot of peaceful muslims. i know that. they are not the ones we have to worry about. we have to worry about a small percentage of muslims who join terrorist groups and have an agenda. >> does it make it more difficult for peaceloving muslims in a society if we stigmatize those who are muslim? >> if you look at the victims of
islamist terrorism in countries like pakistan, india, central asia, the middle east, post victims are muslims themselves. in fact, during ramadan, that is when you hear -- if you turn on the television, you hear the mosque being blown up. it happens during ramadan because that is when muslims go to the mosque the most. even in this part of the world. >> hasn't happened recently? i was not aware of that. >> in the past through -- past five months, it has happened in iraq, afghanistan. >> there was a discussion where four or five people were killed and the president was upset.
>> karzai, the afghan president. it was a mistake on the part of the united states. they killed five people in afghanistan, supposedly by mistake. >> you say supposedly -- >> i was not there. i do not think america killed them intentionally. >> ok. >> but i wasn't there. >> do you suspect when our commitment to afghanistan is over that al qaeda will overrun the country? >> the problem is when you go to the middle east and then when you leave, somebody else takes over. if we leave iraq, iran is going to take over. that is my fear. >> what is a constructive message you have wanted to go to students in the general public about terrorism so we could actually improve and understand the situation? >> one word. awareness. i want them to become aware and make other people more aware of terrorism across the world. >> is it because they become
victims if they are not aware? >> too many people in my opinion are too complacent. i want to go back home, get my wife, my children. how about you just watch the news. i wish it were happening more. at the answer is awareness. >> a lot of people do not watch the news. all right, we have to come through the audience. keep your questions brief and to the point. if you could speak up. welcome, thank you for coming to embry riddle. >> thank you. my question is -- over here -- it's all right. if the goal of these terrorists is to get as much attention for their group as they can and you go back to the advent of the 24-hour news cycle, all of the channels that are out there, the internet, twitter -- today any
act of terrorism is reported millions of times in just maybe the first 10 minutes. versus back in the 1960's where it might have been reported 100 times in days. so, the advent of technology and the use of its we have really makes it perfect for terrorism to be the number one way for your group to get attention. >> absolutely. there is a symbiotic elation ship between the media and terrorism. terrorism attracting media and the media attracts terrorism. >> we encourage terrorism by mass media coverage? >> we do not glorify terrorism. everybody knows what al qaeda is. until 9/11, nobody knew what al qaeda was. everybody knows what osama bin laden was. >> over here? your question? good evening. >> are there states out there that would use a terrorist group to complement their conventional forces? >> are we using their terrorist groups to meet our goals?
>> [indiscernible] >> in conjunction with a standing army, fighter planes, tanks, all of that. would they have a plan to use a terrorist group to complement conventional forces? >> as most of us know, it ron has been accused of using his he -- his he -- hezzbollah. argentina, the dirty war, capital d, capital w. you have a state army and you are using terrorism on the side. >> welcome. you spoke about the definition of terrorism. >> yes, i gave a definition. >> you missed the explanation? >> no, no. i'm just addressing it. you spoke about the palestinians? i do not know if you have been -- first of all, but are the oppressors of palestine terrorists? would they be terrorist to the palestinian people? >> do the palestinian terrorists kill their own people? >> no, i am talking about the oppression inside the occupation
of palestine. would that be seen as terrorist? >> so for example, the idf, the israeli defense forces? >> talking about the invasion. >> so your question is, do i think they are terrorist? no, i do not think people like the idea of our terrorist. i would say in that part of the world, palestinian suicide bombers are terrorists. isn't that one question per person?
>> we are going to go back here and come back. way over here, your question? >> my question is on the awareness aspect. he said, everyone wants to go home and have a good time with their families, but they should be aware. to what extent would that be paranoia? i feel like that is the ultimate goal of terrorism, to strike terror in the people. if they are going home and being constantly aware, at what point does that become paranoid? >> i was not inferring you must always focus on terrorism. paranoia is an extreme state, and extreme dealing. in my opinion, there are are too
many people who do not care about this at all and i think they should care. >> we want to ask a different person and then come back and get people who would like to ask a follow-up or a different question. who would like to ask a question on the side? right down here? go ahead, sir. >> guantanamo in the context of what you are explaining, how does that fit in to what you have discussed? >> in other words, the camp? could you speak up? we could not hear you. >> yes, the actual prison situation in guantánamo is often used as a reason that sparks terrorism. what would your response be to that? >> are the people at guantanamo fostering the fact that we are holding them there, does that foster terrorism? >> that is what osama bin laden was saying, that is what the egyptian doctor, the new al qaeda leader was saying. it was a u.s. naval base in cuba. is it the reason for which we have terrorism? terrorism existed way before guantanamo was created. >> right over here. >> marc, i think the group you were try to think of earlier wasms-13. dr. matusitz, my compliments to you just as an average citizen. we in america take everything
for granted. there is no question about that. that prompts this question to you. and the last of love years we saw the decline of the government in egypt, -- couple of years we saw the decline of the government in egypt, libya with kaddafi. in america, there is concern we are backing the wrong horses. my question to you, sir -- is america for all presence in those areas, are we getting involved with the proper groups to restore some type of stability in those regions, or are there terrorist organizations?
>> the obama administration was accused of supporting the muslim brotherhood against hosni mubarak. the muslim brotherhood -- like al qaeda, osama bin laden was a member of the muslim brotherhood. the egyptians are afraid of the muslim brotherhood. egypt recently designated the muslim brotherhood a terrorist organization. russia, the same thing.
sometimes we're supporting the wrong side. that is for sure. >> i want to thank you for that. the ms-13 is a transnational criminal gang that started in los angeles and has spread to other parts of the united states, canada, mexico, and central america. it is ethnically imposed of central americans that act in urban and suburban areas. the united states has an especially heavy presence in -- metropolitan areas of fairfax county, virginia, and emery county, maryland, and prince george's county in maryland. this started in one area -- long island, new york, boston, charlotte, houston, and there is also a presence in toronto, ontario, canada. we talked to the sheriff of falluja county and he says they are hard to find, but they are everywhere.
>> that is probably because they operate in the structures of cells. they do not have a central command or a headquarters. they have cells of 3, 5 people. they are scattered. >> upfront, your question for dr. matusitz. >> many people say it is our fault about the terrorist because we are running them in some way. isn't it true that the hatred is also because we are just different? if that is the case and we are just different, christian versus muslim, say our women show more skin than their women do, just
because we are different, we are inviting all of this terror because of those reasons -- are we not able to take them out then? >> the first part of the question brings up a concept called blowback. blowback theory. blowback theory says we are getting blowback from groups like al qaeda and the mass. to address the second half of your question, the goals of these groups is to establish a global caliphate. no matter what we do, that is their agenda. >> in the front, ray sanchez, your question. >> dr. matusitz, thank you for coming and giving very good reasons for terrorism. in your book -- you can make a comment here -- do you have a most effective ways of combating terrorism or what do you think is the best way? like you said, there are cells and it is so hard to combat. do you have in your book some suggestions on the best ways to combat terrorism? >> the book is about communication, not so much about practical strategies. there are two types of terrorism. you have homegrown terrorism and international terrorism. homegrown terrorism can be combated by operating on the principle that prevention is better than cure. anybody coming from any country that has some questionable
background should not enter our country. >> way back here. >> how does the misinterpretation of religion affect terrorism? >> do you think it is a misinterpretation of religion are following the core principle of the religion? >> misinterpretation. >> if it is misinterpretation of religion, it would be hijacking a religion. if you follow the core of the religion, there will be religious fundamentalism. some religions have been hijacked. other religions are just following their mainstream fundamentalists. i am not going to list them. do you maintain there is a core -- >> do you maintain that there is a core function within a religion that's purpose is terrorism? >> i would not say it's core purpose is terrorism, but some religions have an agenda they need to fulfill. if they cannot fulfill that agenda in a peaceful way, they will pursue more violent means. >> isn't it a common belief with all different faiths that peace and love and if you strike out to a different person you are
undoing your faith? >> some religions have 90, 150 sects that contradict each other. even in christianity, you have christian fundamentalism and the christian identity movement says that only white christians should be called christians. so, i would say a lot of religions have conflicting things in them. >> way back here. >> if you have all of these theories for why terrorism exists and why terrorists do what they do, are you not justifying terrorism? >> am i justifying terrorism? no. i'm not sure i understand the question.
i am explaining 15 reasons why terrorism exists. >> he is not justifying. he is explaining why it happens, sir. >> did i ask your question -- answer your question? >> good evening, dr. matusitz. thank you for coming. in the homeland security here at embry riddle, we are told that highly kinetic methods are not effective in combating asymmetric terrorism. what is your take on that? what is the most effective tool? >> i can say for example that changing a culture from the bottom up is one way to do it. it is one thing to change a doctrine. especially a doctrine that is built on killing us. i believe killing the target of attack or of influences the way to go.
>> how much of our way of life is so offensive to other people but they feel they have to act out to exterminate us? is that common? >> if you go back to what george w. bush said in 2001 at the joint session of congress, he said referring to groups like al qaeda "they hate us. they hate our freedom. they hate the fact that we are meeting here freely." i think that captures the essence of what you said. is a clash of civilizations. >> i wonder if that plays into it -- the way we dress, the way we act, the amount of skin the show. does that bring out violence and other people because it is so against what they believe? >> yes. i can give an example. one of the supreme leaders of the muslim brotherhood. at the end of the 1940's, he went to the united states.
he lived here for a few years. he said america was basically a whorehouse. people lived in debauchery, sin and corruption. he described it in arabic as a state of divine ignorance. he went back to egypt and wrote a book that has become the bible for global jihad is him and the book is called "milestones," that was published in the 1950's. that would be an example of a direct attack on our lifestyles. girls have bikinis at the beaches. what? osama bin laden was heavily inspired by this book. >> yes, sir? >> in syria, you have muslim sects fighting each other. do you think there is a chance if israel should feel threatened and strikes against syria, do you think there is a chance at all the muslim sects will unite against israel which will draw us into --
>> yes, understand israel is 700 times smaller than those surrounding the country. you have some of the syrian rebel groups attacking people and beheading christians. in my view, both sides are not clean. both sides have a lot of blood on their hands. >> in the societies you spoke of that are involved in terrorism, do the good people from these cultures ever speak up and say, this is not the way to be? >> in a lot of places, places like pakistan, somalia, if you speak up, if you point a finger at people, you will not say a lot for a long time. out of fear -- a lot of people want to have nothing to do with terrorism, with jihad.
a lot of people are afraid. i think it is the fear factor. >> backup in the audience. i would like to ask a question -- >> if we could ask you to speak up just a little. >> you brought up awareness. i would like to address it from a different respective. i would like your opinion on how the -- how the american, how the american actions have contributed to the sympathy by terrorist groups against americans? >> i don't understand. >> i think he is saying -- the actions of americans are perceived as? >> no, what i would like to say is not your american ideology, but the actions taken by american agencies abroad --
>> let me do this in pieces. like the nsa? >> i would like to know how much this has contributed to terrorist antipathy against americans? >> let me start with the nsa. it is hated not just by people in the middle east, but people in germany. according to edward snowden, the nsa was investigating the conversations of the chancellor in germany. these actions are resented. but then there are a lot of things where we do not know what is going on. we are here talking. i'm sure there are many things we do know know -- we do not know were happening. >> we have an e-mail question from one of our listeners.
is jealousy of our way of life a reason for terrorism? >> i would not say jealousy in and of itself is a massive motivator to lead able to commit terrorist attacks. i would say it is the same term as the clash of civilizations. >> what went on in my mind was the haves and the have-nots. those who do not have any -- to go to your point, those in poverty, who resent that we have so much riches. >> for the palestinian suicide bomber, their life on earth is a life of abject misery. they are promised 72 virgins and servants and internal life. there is relative deprivation. do they hate us, america, based on that fact alone? i would say maybe partly, but that's not the only reason. >> your question? >> good evening. could you make people aware that
the holy quran is the holiest book for muslims around the world. and -- is the second holiest book. [indiscernible] i just want your take on this. >> so, do the quran and to the lead people to commit terrorism. >> no, as you mentioned earlier, they would motivate terrorism. i want you to tell how. how did they motivate terrorism, as you mentioned. >> certain verses in the quran are very clear. for example going back to the palestinian suicide bombers. "if you die in jihad, if you die in holy war, and you kill for the profit, you will reach the highest lays in -- place in paradise." that verse has motivated people to kill. it has validated. some person is motivated the bowl.
now, some are considered fraud, forgery. but the ones written 1000 years ago, considered more credible than most. for example, it is considered the most credible. considered the most credible by muslims who understand islam. >> in this area? your question? >> because of the constant oppression and impoverished areas that terrorism could be considered a subculture inside these areas? >> it is a subculture in many areas of the world. in chechnya it is a subculture. >> are there governments that are willing partners of
terrorism? do we know this? in other words, they say we are not going to do this because we are the elected government, but we know the sectors exist and we're going to let them do it they have to do. >> the country of iran. that.is no question about do we let them do it they do? >> i am not saying that, but other countries. are there cases where there are terrorists acting in this country and the government knows about and doesn't do anything about it? >> do agencies turn a blind eye on terrorist activities or pre-terrorist activities? i do not know. i hope not. >> do you think you goes on other countries? >> definitely, in other countries. and i will not mention him. there's no question about that.
>> we talk about the peaceful muslims and the radical , which we consider to be about 10%. when the radical muslims start to pressure the peaceful muslims, will they stand up for the love that they claim they have, that they get to enjoy in america, under the liberty we have, and stand up and i instead of submitting to the oppression of the minority? >> well, i would like peaceful muslims in many countries on earth to stand up more. but out of fear, some of them do not stand up. >> should americans have a fear
of muslim law? i hear people tell me this all the time. that muslim law is coming. is it coming to the united states? >> is not going to be here anytime soon. but if we are too complacent it will come in a few centuries. understand it is not compatible with our constitution. mercy killings. the main tenants. it is freedom of speech restrictions, which contradicts the first amendment. >> over here, sir. good evening. >> i get the impression that the current administration does not think we should fight terrorism we should negotiate. is that possible? >> did barack obama say we should not fight terrorism? >> he said he wanted to make friends with the muslim
brotherhood and other organizations. i get the impression he is not out for a fight. he gives the impression he wasn't negotiate to settle the issues. >> in my opinion, inviting be muslim brotherhood there was a mistake, but i do not think he refuses to fight terrorism. he fights terrorism. as far as negotiating with as far as negotiating with terrorists, that would be a no-no. never negotiate with terrorists. they have a very different agenda. >> how active is the muslim brotherhood in north america? active.t is very the muslim brotherhood is very active in america, and many other countries. it is very active in belgium, where i come from. in my country, they have sharia. the have sharia for the u.k.. it is in many countries. a billion that
muslims are directly or indirectly affiliated with the muslim brotherhood. >> i had a question that came in. they want to know how the asian sector of the world deals with terrorism. deal with terrorism -- the chinese, japanese, koreans -- do they deal with terrorism differently than western countries? >> i don't think they handle it differently than we do. they do have a lot of terrorist groups. in china, you have the uighurs in the western province of the country. these are separate terrorist -- separatist terrorist groups. groups of people that want to be independent. that is why they commit terrorist attacks. next way in the back. your question. >> you mentioned freedom fighters earlier in your presentation. my question is, is there good terrorism? if you look at the american revolutionary fighters, we won. time we weree
fighting the british, freedom fighters, we were terrorist. we just happen to win. the tamil tigers lost and they were claimed terrorist. can there be a good form of terrorism? >> no, because don't look at what they say. we'll get what they do. tamil tigers used suicide bombs and terrorist practices. during the revolution here, we used no terrorist practices. [inaudible] >> hold on one second. we want to hear you. but we used unconventional -- >> we used unconventional methods for the time. at that time, war was meant in lines and they shoot, and then taken the and then the third -- the second and third lines do the same. if you look at francis marion in south carolina, how he fought,
that was completely unconventional. they would ambush the british soldiers. is -- we won, the revolutionary soldiers one, so it is ok. why is that not considered terrorism? >> let me go back to the tamil tigers. suicide bomb on a moped enable it up next to a tourist bus, killing a lot of civilians. did we do anything like this during the american revolution? we use rifles and some of the techniques that we use, but i doubt george washington and then print that were terrorists. [applause] >> what do you want them to do with what they learn in this class echo how will they apply it in their lives? unlikeass in terrorism, a class on engineering, is less applicable to realize. it is more of an awareness class, a theoretical class. it is not really applicable -- i'm not telling them to buy a
glock 17. that is not the case. [laughter] it is more information and how to understand the concept of terrorism better. it is not a hands-on class. >> do you find that students are generally aware of much of this and they just haven't focused on it? are they totally blown away by what you are teaching? >> look at the term "blown away" and that is right in the proper context. [laughter] >> have you studied the quran in its entirety? do you understand arabic? >> i do not speak arabic, but i have studied the quran. i have a lot of copies of the quran. h is like this. it will take some time. >> [inaudible]
[applause] >> a lot of muslims in themselves don't speak arabic for the a lot of jewish people don't the key brew. i have a lot of translations of the quran in english. -- a lot of the jewish don't speak hebrew. i have a lot of translations of the quran in english. >> let's give her a microphone. >> you agree that you have not studied the koran in its entirety and you have judged the religion. that is wrong. >> stay with us for a moment. is it your assessment that he cannot speak to the issue completely until yesterday all of the quran? >> yes. you have to know a subject in its entirety, otherwise you cannot judge by a few acts of terrorists. that is what i feel like you are doing right now. you are judging a religion by the few acts of terrorists. that is wrong. i am a muslim. i believe in peace.
i can die for america, because this is my country. i can die for america. [applause] >> let him respond. don't go away. >> you are saying that because i don't speak arabic i will never know the subject entirely. >> no, i'm not saying that. >> a lot of muslims do not speak arabic. >> you are right. i am from india and i have read and understood the quran from my parents and grandparents. i know the hadith. i can read arabic, but i don't speak arabic. but i have read and i'm still reading. for the last 40 years i'm still reading the quran and i'm not finished yet. how can you judge? >> you are making assumptions about me. why do most of the suicide bombings happen in the middle east?
>> terrorists exist in all countries and in all religions. but some people pick and choose who they want to link terrorists to islam. that is not right. you do not link timothy mcveigh to christianity. religion on this earth teaches violence. every religion encourages peace. for your information, to be a good muslim, according to islam, we should believe in jesus christ. we should believe in moses. says inthe quran, it one of the verses, if you kill andn being, you are killing -- the entire humanity. >> thank you. >> i did not expect to get a rant in here, but i will address your ranting. the quran mentions the names of jesus, moses, ever ham, a lot of names that appear in the bible. the same names, and deferred people. the quran jesus was not the son
of god. what you are doing is deception. >> we are not going to settle everything here. we want to get as many voices in the precious minutes left. hello. thank you for being with us. >> i wanted to talk about the oppression of the palestinian people. next do you have a question? >> yes, i do. >> go ahead. i am a christian and you said 90% of the bombings were suicides or whatever it was was from the middle east. i am a christian born to a palestinian father. why can't i go back to my country echo why have i never seen my country and i'm not allowed back there? that is my question to you. >> i don't know if i can answer your question. first, you may go back to your country. >> i am not allowed there. >> by your own state department? toi am not allowed there due the invasion, by the oppression.
>> are all people in your situation? >> there are many people in my situation. my dad just lost his citizenship. >> why? >> because of the oppression. invasion towards our country and why we are being wiped away from others. there is an invasion towards our country. and we are being wiped away from our country. >> with all due respect, we cannot answer that. we are having a greater discussion on terrorism. that is a state department issue. we won't be able to answer your question, sir. i can't answer your question. i don't know the details of the situation. it.annot answer >> ok, thank you. but advice, i suggest you go visit the middle east, because it's not the way you say it is. we are not jealous of your way of life. your way of life is so much like ours. look at the way i dress and the way i speak. >> let me ask you a question. have you ever gone to any of these countries that you talk
about? >> i have never been to gaza or the west bank, but you are assuming that i made a generalization and i did not. >> let me come over here. your question. why would you relate terrorism to islam? [indiscernible] >> we cannot understand your question. >> let's say a terrorism happened, why did you related to a religion? but if a muslim doesn't attack, you right away relate it to his religion. >> i'm sorry, sir. we cannot understand the question. it's too convoluted. one more try at this. >> why would you relate a ?errorism attack to muslim
in the united states or somewhere else if there is a terrorism attack, you don't related to religion. >> in my book i talk about islamic terrorism, christian terrorism, all kinds of religions. >> what is an example of christian terrorism? modern christian chair is him. >> the christian identity movement. the christian identity movement operates on the principle that the true christians are this elite group of people, the white areas. ns.aria >> how do they act out? people, their belongings, and they have done some killings. >> would you define those who act out as -- against abortion clinics as terrorist? >> oh, definitely. antiabortion terrorism, like the army of god. understand that the number of
antiabortion killings in the past 20 years has been just minimal. >> in the audience now, sir. >> you were mentioning some verses of the quran from hadith. some of these are cherry picked, for example, by al qaeda to suit their own ideas. a mr. presentation of religion because terrorism -- a misrepresentation of religion might cause terrorism. but by cherry picking and not understanding the context, are they misinterpreting the religion? >> are they hijacking the religion? if you read the speeches by osama bin laden and the mission statement of a lot of these groups, they are saying they are following the core of the religion. they would disagree with you. as i said before, i would like stand moreslims to against these things. but again come out of fear, they are not going to do it.
of -- right over here. and we will come back to hear. >> you mentioned afghanistan, pakistan, a rack. i want to ask you why the relation between terrorism and israel? ofmotto -- one of the goals many jihadist groups is to take israel, jerusalem, how could. the noble, holy place. the tradition has it that it was the place where mohammed ascended to heaven. it is the third holiest place. number one is mecca, number two is medina, and number three is al quds. if you read the mission statement of hezbollah, and other jihadist groups, they want to take that israel -- jerusalem. that is why there is tension between israel and all these groups. >> we have time for a couple
more questions. back here. >> i'm having trouble understanding the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. isn't it in the eyes of the beholder? and is in afghanistan a wonderful study in freedom fighters versus terrorist? >> freedom fighters -- we hear this often. freedom fighters and terrorists, are they the same? we call them terrorists and they call themselves freedom fighters. it is a matter of semantics. he called them suicide bombers and a call themselves martyrs, heroes. of course, they have a different understanding of the world, a different frame of reference. is where the discrepancy between what we call them and what they referred to themselves as comes from. >> we are very short on time. thank you for being with us tonight. your question? >> one of the reasons for terrorism is people self-determination. the united states is an example. another example would be the state of israel. you have mentioning your books
groups that have used bombings and other things to achieve their political girls -- goals. you are a member of united for israel. do you think there is a bias because of religion and zionism toward this that influences your work? >> no full stop i would not call myself a zionist. >> are you a member of that organization? >> yes, it just started. i was a faculty member and they were looking for someone and i said yes. for sure, it has not always been clean. are they a terrorist group? no. no. >> when we talked about freedom fighters and the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists, and someone mentioned the revolution. i see the difference as being whether they attack military targets or civilian targets. do you see that? am i correct? what they hezbollah,
did in october, 1983. they went to the marine barracks in beirut and they had two truck bombs that killed 200 41 people. the targets were military, but the incident was still called a terrorist attack. >> i got time for one more question. right up front. thank you for being with us tonight. >> i heard some of your video speeches. i'm surprised whenever you raise the question of the quran motivating terrorism and all of that. at the same time, you have been mentioning osama bin laden -- >> speak into the microphone. were having trouble hearing you. >> osama bin laden is an individual. he's not a prophet. might be following the religion of islam, but he is not
motivating people. ask your question. >> osama bin laden was considered and he considered himself the direct successor to the prophet mohammed. we know he was not, but that is how he saw himself. >> [inaudible] running out of time. i apologize, sir, for having to stop. i want to thank several people for having made this pop of low -- made this possible tonight. alyssa and kyle who worked with the audience here. jerry ankeny, our friends at c-span. being for producing this. it will be broadcast again on w knowand we will let you
when our partners that she's been will be carrying this, most likely in the next month. we have an event coming up on the 18th. it will be a live town hall and you are all invited to come after questions of congressman desantis in a live broadcast. that will be the 18th right here in the auditorium. dr.matusis will be selling his dvds and just a moment. you can line up and say hello and pick up a copy. we will be making no sales right here. ladies and gentlemen, once again, dr. jonathan misuses -- matusis. [applause] thank you for being with us tonight. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]