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tv   Washington Journal  CSPAN  July 8, 2014 7:00am-10:01am EDT

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and a report that shows the u.s. has surpassed saudi arabia as the world largest oil producer. that thea today" ports select committee to investigate then ghazi is expected to cost $3 million this year, more than that used to maintain and staff the veterans affairs committee. picking of the v.a., that hearing tonight on the role of whistleblowers. you can watch that hearing at 7:30 this evening on c-span2. it was yesterday that the administration announced an effort that would spend over $4 million to make sure that her teachers would end up at schools in low income areas, this as the
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nation's largest teachers union wants to see education secretary arne duncan resigned from his position. we want to talk about education in the united states and your thoughts on the best way to boost failing schools. perhaps you will turn to issues with federal policy, or more local and state-level issues are your interest as well, but overall, the best ways to boost failing schools. here is how you can weigh in this morning. host: if you go to "the washington times," there is a pressfrom the associated
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about president obama talking about teachers and initiatives for low income areas. focuses on the education secretary arne duncan pushing for these reforms after the teachers union showed a no-confidence vote. saying that bit this initiative from the white house "centers on efforts to ensure low income and urban districts still have quality teachers." joining us on the phone to talk about these issues is a reporter for "education week." good morning. guest: good morning, thanks for having me. host: could you give us the essentials of the program? guest: sure.
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so under this new program the administration unveiled they will be required to summit plans ensuring that students in underperforming schools have access to as many great teachers as students in more advantaged schools. it is actually not all that new. this has been a requirement of the no child left behind act, which was signed way back in 2002. some states have plans on file with the department of education , but many of those have not been updated for years. advocacy groups have found them to be lacking, that states are not following through on their promises. this is an effort to put some teeth in an older requirement. host: is there any reason for states not updating these plans, as you talked about? guest: the department has not really put the pressure on them to do this.
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also, it is really just a tough thing to do. it is really hard and they have limited authority to make hiring and placement positions, so they are usually made by local districts. but there is only so much states can really do on this. what i think the secretary and the president are trying to do is start a national dialogue and put a lot of focus on this issue, which sometimes gets swept under the rug. ast: according to the paper, $4 million-plus price tag attached to this. where does the money get spent? guest: it is a really small number, right, in terms of the federal budget, almost a rounding error. it sounds like the department will use that money to provide technical assistance to states, give them some sort of guidance in this area. presumably they will hire advisors and folks like that or -- for that sort of
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thing that the department. amount of money and this is a huge problem. in order to get those highflying teachers to go to these underperforming schools, districts have offered h teachers bonuses of $10,000, $20,000. it is unlikely it will come out of that tiny $4.2 million pot. the administration offer specific ideas on how to put teachers in these districts? guest: they haven't really been too specific about what needs to be in these plans. some of the things that have worked in the past ensure that teachers have access to a really good principle, that they have time to plan and collaborate with each other, and they have a chance to work with other colleagues who really believe in the mission of turning around low performing schools. host: what has been the
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reactions from teachers unions? guest: generally the reaction has been very supportive. that is because the isn't being too specific about what it wants to see in these plans. they're hoping that they can p withith states to come u equity plans that will include some things that teachers want anyway, some of the things i just mentioned, like more time to collaborate with their peers. klein, tell us why the union wants arne duncan to resign. guest: that is a great question. the secretary has done a lot of things over his tenure that have been controversial. he has been one of the loudest voices in federal policy calling for teachers to be evaluated based on student outcomes. that is something that states and districts are working their
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way through. a lot of teachers are skeptical and their job to be on the line if the students don't do well on these standardized tests. host: tell us about initiatives we've heard over the years -- common core, race for the top. how have these done since the administration has highlighted these policies? nott: so common core is actually something that the administration came up with but they have certainly been boosters for it. statesow more than 40 and the district of columbia are using these standards for preparing students for college and careers. some states are beginning to walk away from the standards. oklahoma and south carolina were the most recent states to ditch them. but most states are sticking with the standards. the question is what will happen to common core as the obama
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administration, which is been julie before it -- which has been a big cheerleader for it, as their time in office comes to an end. the states that originally got the money still have it. there have been improvements in the states but congress is reticent to give the administration any more money for the program. host: what has been the reaction from arne duncan as far as what the nea wants? guest: he has been pretty dismissive -- not dismissive us in not seeming to care, but like "they are a partner, we have enjoyed working with them." he sort of brushed off the comments. he really downplayed that particular vote. ein withyson kl "education week," talking about this initiative with teachers but talking about arne duncan as well. ms. klein, thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: our topic overall is the
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best way in your mind to boost failing schools. host: this is fred who starts off this morning, ohio. thanks for waiting. go ahead. caller: i think the solution is to reduce the involvement of politicians and large institutions interfering with education. spent a lot of money and effort, damaged education through the testing, through these incentive programs, the corruption in the schools where the data is falsified, spending a lot of money, stress on the students, who don't enjoy learning but are
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stressed by the tests, teachers that are diverted from teaching to test -- teach for the test. the money should be put in psychologists, family support, security in the schools, music, art. if we do the things that really help children and have politicians and the large academic institutions to stop interfering and wasting the money, do the things that actually the teachers on the line know will help -- one had 3 years of chemistry before going to political science. i took calculus. i saw the test for fifth graders. they used terms which even i had to work with, terms that fifth-graders will never remember. the textbooks, they come out with the knowledge they can't learn, knowledge they don't remember -- host: ok.
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charlotte from pennsylvania. caller: hello, i am charlotte -- i shouldn't have said that -- i'm a recently graduated student. i'm concerned about the metrics that duncan said yesterday. note why there is no national standards for things like the common core and other programs. it seems like that would be an easy way to determine where the nation is in its schools. host: charlotte, we've heard a lot about this teaching to the test standard. being a recent graduate, what is it like being a test-taker? caller: personally, i never minded standardized tests. i would take the test and then i would come home. it is important that students have activities like after school programs, and help with
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their homework. standardized tests aren't inherently bad. i understand the attitude towards standardized tests but he gives them this negative light. teachers are wonderful people and i would not be studying what i am studying without my teachers. i don't think we should vilify it. host: kevin in california, hi there. caller: how are you? host: fine, thanks. caller: i want to thank all the veterans listening, god bless you and god bless america. would like to thank c-span for raising this issue. education is so important for the united states, so important for the future of the united states. you go to countries like japan, the asian countries, they really prioritize education.
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they really drill school into their kids from the very beginning. this so important for us to take education for the youth growing up and keep them off the streets and teach them responsibility , timeliness,e teamwork, the values that we are able to apply to the american workforce and make america as great as it is. host: that is kevin. the education secretary appeared yesterday to talk about this plan and boost education in low-income areas. [video clip] >> despite teachers' and principal's herculean efforts, students in low income families and students of color face daunting achievement gaps. as everyone here knows, access has positivehers
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impacts for students, including increased achievement levels, increased likelihood of college attendance, and higher wages over the lifetime. other high-performing countries not only understand this profound truth, but more importantly, they act upon it. in south korea, for example, according to one study, students of low-income families are more likely than students from wealthier families to have high access to quality teachers. but we have struggled with that in the united states. today race and family income too often still predict access to excellent educators. that is sadly unacceptable and we must do better together. host: your thoughts on the best way to help and boost failing schools, that is the topic for the remainder of our time. anderson, south carolina. we hear from an educator -- this is elizabeth. first, rick in a nashville, tennessee. caller: i used to deal with
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teachers in their retirement and i used to go to the schools, before or after school, and what i found was -- i raised a daughter and she will be starting her junior year of college this year. what i found was -- this was back when mr. bush cited no daughtert behind -- my started in an omen to school and they had -- in an elementary school and they had no esl classes, english as a second language. as of 10, 12, 11 years ago, whatever it is -- now they have 15 esl teachers in that same elementary school. the problem is that you have 4 children in the school. instance,dren -- for i had a teacher who went to an inner-city school, she wanted to make a difference, but she found
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out that most of the parents sending their kids to school were sending them to school underdressed, underfed, and they would fall asleep in class. after about five years she said enough is enough and she went back to a better neighborhood school because she found out she could make a difference. host: we will hear from an educator next. this is elizabeth from south carolina. caller: ok, i am a retired educator. , but i wasrs old late -- pardon me? host: go ahead, you are on. caller: i was late getting into education, but enjoyed it immensely. but i can tell you some things from my observation if you will give me a minute that i think would make a real difference. first of all, students need time on task.
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the days are so chopped up with , and i values music, art, all those things, but when they come into that time teaching time, it really does interop and -- interrupt education. accountability must be on all parts. that includes parents. when students overhear their or down talking the system, it is not helpful. they bring that attitude to school, and it really is not helpful. host: that is elizabeth from south carolina. from "the washington post" this morning, talking about the policy or announcement made yesterday, they w rite that in louisiana "the percentage of highly effective
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is 50% higher in a low poverty, low minority schools than in high poverty, high minority schools. in north carolina, highly effective teachers are 50% more likely to leave a high poverty school than other more affluent schools." another educator, ron from minnesota. caller: yeah thanks for having me on. i wanted to be on for quite a while. i am a former reading consultant, learning disability specialist. first of all, let me say jesus slogans don't mean anything. -- let me say these slogans don't mean anything. education is not a race and there is not a top. the great german authors said that in his 70's he was still learning. . german authors said that in his 70's he was still learning to read.
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learning to read is not based on reading research. the range gets bigger through the school years, not smaller. another thing is legislators, school board members, therintendents, and secondary principals do not have to take a class in reading in order to be certified. imagine a't corporation hiring somebody that ,adn't studied, say, business law, or accounting. it is time to get people informed on what learning to read is like. it is a long, slow process that goes all through life. and all this hype in the media is just that, nothing more. it is a lot of hype and not based on sound research. host: louisiana on our others line. you are on, go ahead. caller: thank you. my question is what has happened to the use of textbooks in the
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schools? i am the husband of a retired teacher now and i really respected the hard, hard work of so many teachers, and see a lot of progress in students, but wonder about the changing systems where textbooks used to be the guiding force, and now it seems like they are not. i wondered if there were other opinions about that. host: when you say it doesn't seem like textbooks have the force that they used to, what do you mean by that? caller: that it seems like the schools know longer use the text -- no longer use the textbooks for even the lesson planning. they are not following the logical course in the different classes. they are teaching it by objectives so they have to from one- bounce objective to another, and it is largely tied to the standardized test. it seems like the textbooks were wonderful guides to the education process. host: sonia from tennessee,
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a parent. caller: good morning, good morning, thank you for having. to get up for work everything, regular, typical american. i have an 18-year-old and a 21-year-old and i am 42. as a person who has went to school, i went through the process from beginning to end, went to college. it is inevitable to know that all we have to do is the same thing that has been working for decades and centuries, but we have been lackadaisical without his position as parents, as educators -- with our disposition as parents, as educators. what it was in the 1960's and 1970's that made us who we are, how did we get this far? not being strung out on drugs and things of that nature, not
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being confused with their sexual orientation, and yes, i said that, because all that comes into play with what the kids are looking at and what they are looking to replicate and mimic. i honestly think that if we take it back to the core existence of our family structure, everything lines up. if you take care of your children, if you feed them and quilt them, if the standards of the home and the human being are at the front door before they leave out of it, you put the sack lunch with a and send the kids on their way, they remember what you are talking and they take that to heart, because you are the first educator that they know -- host: we heard from a parent. a couple stories we will put in as we take your thoughts on the best way to boost failing schools. for themated price tag select committee on benghazi today may cost $3 million this
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year. according to a committee document provided by democratic leader nancy pelosi's office, the house wants $3.3 million "for this use special operations on the special committee that created in may. the budget was just under $2.2 million for republicans and under $1 million for democrats on the committee. it is expected to have a staff of 30." carol from pittsburgh, go ahead. hello. thank you for having me on this morning. i think the tga should be resurrected in the united states, as they were the mediators between the children, for the children, between the parents, and the teachers, and the community would know what they need most. some children have to be fed a breakfast before they can learn. -- here invery badly
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the city of pittsburgh we put 19 schools up for sale last year. and that is very sad. i suggest that everybody -- host: why did they go up for sale? caller: lack of population. a lot of people move around and work. children get out of school, they get frustrated, they don't want to go back. you have so many children that do not go to school, and that is another sad situation that should be addressed. you should be educating those that walk through the door and those that don't, so you have to have a tutoring program. if you recruited x teachers or educated people that are unemployed and you ran at 2 walkms -- those that through the front door and those in have to learn to live an
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this world and read and write. pta if you have those in most school systems anyway? caller: there should be national rules. i don't think we need a lot of new laws to answer these problems. we have answered these problems before but they just have to be resurrected, and i think the pta would be one organization. it is not national anymore. host: we've set aside a line for educators. this is make, and educator -- nick, an educator from texas. caller: i use technology in a major high school and in the district for 10 years, one recent study that came up recently by someone who did a t ed talk any show that if you did -- different computer to poor
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children in india, they would learn how to use the computer all on the road without an educator there to teach them. they would teach themselves. set children upon an interesting question, they will discover the answer on their own using technology. the most important factors in general was -- he called it the an olderctor, where person and knew the answer already but would provide the students with positive feedback, saying "what a smart child you are, how did you figure that out?" and the students would respond and work harder. keeping the attention of children is difficult. like a standup comic, where if you are not good they will turn on you. they can find the answers on themselves with groups. he found they did not even have to speak english to use the power of technology.
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there needs to be a change in the educational approach where, one, teachers are trained to provide professional encouragement to students, and two, stop trying to teach from the textbook and trying to control the discussion and be the educating director and actually have the students finance of themselves and then come back and share the answers -- ofgimmicks from animation or games on the computers and whatnot. host: that is nick from texas. in "usa today" they have a story highgh schools teutons -- school students coming to the united states as part of a cultural exchange program. most coming from china. 8700.korea is next with germany, mexico, and brazil following that. daniel from belleview, florida, on our others line. good morning.
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daniel from florida, are you there? one more time for daniel. caller: yeah, i'm here. i was just muting the tv. as i told the gentleman answering the telephone, this marks 50 years since i graduated from high school, and at the time there was no federalized department of education. coincidently, i am compelled to say that the federal government has the reverse mida touc -- reverse midas touch. they take the gold and turn it to straw. at the time i was educated there was no federal department of education and to the best of my knowledge there was no heavy influence of the teachers unions, which i think are very deleterious to the education process, just by the nature of unions. not a nice thing to say, but you ask anybody who has worked in anyway, around you --
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unions by and large are counterproductive. another thing that would improve education is if there was more emphasis on arts and crafts and industrial arts, as in woodworking, metalworking, body shop, automotive repair, things like that, things that there is a demand for. there is these private institutions that teach on a mechanics -- auto mechanics, but those are very high tuition, as is, say, learning how to do aircraft maintenance. all of these are valuable skills and they are indispensable to the economy. anyway, thanks for taking my comments. host: the best way to boost failing schools, the topic for the next 15 minutes. this in light of a policy announcement yesterday from the administration hoping to put better teachers in low income areas.
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we will continue on that, but on the topic of so-called whistleblowers, that is the topic of a hearing that takes place this evening, 7:30 come in front of the house veterans affairs committee. the house taking a look at those who talked about inadequacies in programs. -- in v.a. you can see that tonight on c-span2. go to for more information. stories internationally focused in several papers on the workings of the iraqi parliament. this is the headline in "the new york times" from alissa rubin. "the announcement of the five-week delay was followed by charges and countercharges on which political bloc was to blame for slowing down the political process. even if parliament does meet sunday and choose a speaker, it is hard to see if it will -- it is far from clear that it will be able to move speedily to the next steps of selecting a president, 2 vice presidents.
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critics of the government say that it's relentlessly sectarian policies alienated sunnis, helping to ease the way for the islamic state in iraq and syria to oust the iraqi army and move into sunni areas in iraq's north and west." that is "the new york times." "theu look at the pages of wall street journal," looking at the process of choosing the next president of afghanistan. ghani edge closer to becoming the next president winning a majority of votes in a preliminary count, but officials stopped short of declaring a winner as millions of ballots could be reviewed for fraud allegations. hadformer finance minister 156 .4% of the vote in a preliminary account, but his abdullah alleged
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widespread fraud in the runoff vote." schools intopic of indiana. he is a parent. caller: geithner disgusting, isn't it, the way everything turns out. -- kind of disgusting, isn't it, the way of thing turns out. jimmy carter and the democrats removed the education system from the people and turned it over to the government and it has gone downhill. i went to school before then and i got a good education. i can do reading, writing, arithmetic, the whole works. now we have a failing system that brings muslims in to take over the united states and all the u.s. and they have mosques built and weapons and anything they want and nobody does anything about it. host: greg, and educator. caller: morning, pedro.
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this is a consultative issue but this isnue to spend -- a complicated issue but we continue to spend billions of dollars on education and the schools need to stop being the parents, and that is what has .appened last 30, 40 years a lot of teachers i've met are very frustrated because they have spent so much time and that isildren what needs to stop. until schools figure that out, we will continue to have a lot of problems. host: when you say "parenting the children," what do you mean? caller: they spend the whole day dealing with problems, children that are not motivated. a lot of needs that the children are getting at home are trying to be met at the school, and that was never the way god intended. god intended for the education to really begin at home. educator, what do
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you think of this idea of teacher testing and standards and all that? caller: i am in favor of all that. i think it is a good idea. i think it is a good idea to get the best teachers in the classroom possible. but until we get the parents involved, until we get the parents as part of the process, more closely as part of educating their own children also, the problem is not going to be solved. it has to be a cooperative effort, and really more the responsibility of mom and dad. emma in south carolina on our others line, we are talking about the best way to boost failing schools. go ahead. caller: good morning. i and the grandparent parent of twins and a little boy, and i feel like there is so much extra curriculum activities in the school system the kids can't
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stay on their rules and their education level because there is too much activity is going on. even in the summer camps there is still teaching going on. i am 70-something years old now, and we had activities but it wasn't every week, every holiday. we have got to go all out, but how much are we doing education-wise with these children? we are playing, dancing, having fun, but these children need theirncluded in all of activities of education time, whether it is settling down, if it is nothing else but a book it is educational. i realize that there's entirely too much time playing in the school system. you don't see that in other countries. those kids are in school all day . but the playing has gotten outrageous for the children now. we need to look into that. host: you heard alyson klein
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talk about the nea and a recent decision by them on education secretary arne duncan. from "the washington post," "delegates adopted a business item that called for mr. duncan's resignation. it underscores the long-standing tension between the obama administration and teachers unions, a longtime steadfast democratic ally. this is the response secretary duncan had towards the nea. [video clip] seems to be pinning a lot of its frustration on you directly. calling for bill your resignation. i wonder if you could respond to that call, and the broader concerns with the administration's policies. local unionhat is politics. we have had a very good relationship with the nea in the past to make met every month for breakfast with them, work on a
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national labor summit. they have elected a new president and we wish her the best of luck and we look for to working closely with them moving forward. host: talking about the latest program, the initiative from the obama administration, the american federation of teachers put out this tweet. host: jeffrey from massachusetts, thanks for holding on. you are out paren -- you are a parent. hi. caller: i think they need to separate the kids with learning disabilities from different schools, and also, more than anything, we need to create a media for the poor and the middle class, because the fox foundation,ritage the freedom act, all these channels for the rich. host: so back to your first point about separating special education for students to other schools.
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why do you believe that? caller: well, because i had a , and i wassability in special classes where they helped you more. you know, i was in the regular classes and i couldn't learn anything because i couldn't keep up with them. host: the latest concerning education policy out of arizona. aboutead story talking drivers license dispute. "out of phoenix, a federal appeals court has dealt a new blow to arizona in its immigration crackdowns on a ruling that the state cannot to youngers licenses immigrants who are in the u.s. the republican governor jan brewer called the ruling
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misguided and said she was considering an appeal. the decision follows other high-profile battles between arizona and the federal government over immigration, including what decisions that struck down much of a 2010 enforcement law but upheld its most probably -- most hotly debated section, which requires checking immigration status under certain circumstances. " lynn, and educator. caller: i am volunteering with the headstart program because i run a mentor ship at the high school for troubled teens. all the research i have read says you have to start early. i truly believe it is the american family. i would like to see our president on national tv talk about the mac and family. my president -- talk about the american family. my parents and i did not have the best relationship that we stay together. my brother and i are college graduates. we did not have a spectacular
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teachers but we had good teachers. you can't test teachers -- you can test teachers all you want but there was no way to test how much they care. that is a hard thing to determine. the caller who said that the family is the best educators so right. you have parents who work. communitya bit and i cannot believe the number of people in this head start program, but there is divorce, children being raised by grandparents, all kinds of issues that when i was in school and early 1980's you just didn't see. if the believe that family can stay committed to the children and the family breaks apart, how can anything in society fix that? host: have you been subject to tests of quality? caller: yes, every teacher is still subject to those tests. you can graduate with a degree in education and still have to
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pass a test. it is a test of your knowledge, math skills, reading skills, writing skills, and you can't get through college without having written that did there is no cat -- without having proven that. there is no test for how much you care, for how far you want to go to help those kids in need. i chose not to have children of my own so that i can devote my entire life to my career. the other caller who said there's too much parenting going on -- you really have no choice today. i live in a very wealthy community, what would be considered a prime community to raise children and send them to school. and yet there are close to 500 kids in this community in the head start program, which i have to get to shortly -- host: i will let you go because we have a couple other calls to take. chris in milwaukee, wisconsin, a parent. caller: i think a lot of it has to do with not the teachers but
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the administration. i had a sister who was a teacher, retired now, and what went on in her school was ridiculous. she had to stay at my house one night -- she was a high school teacher -- because she was threatened by a gang member. -- she tookudents him down to the office and the administration just said to give him $10 so he would give the keys back. there is no discipline. too manyflunked students because they did not come to class, to not do any work, were not even trying, she was told there were too many failures so she was supposed to change their grades. she refused. now you have this going on and they blame the teacher? thesetance disrupt -- and
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kids disrupt class to the point that the other kids -- they can't learn. host: that is chris from wisconsin there. 2 cities in contention to host the republican national convention in 2016. they are cleveland, ohio and dallas, texas. today, hopefully, one of those cities will learn which received the nomination. the site committee is expected to announce today the host city. dallas has rolled out the red carpet at cleveland has one major advantage, the city is a swing state. centerrican airlines could be another reason dallas doesn't win the bid. aacmavs and stars have the reserved for games that month. if the committee chose dallas it would have to mov the date to july. call on the topic of
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boosting failing schools. here is stan from new york. caller: and my on? host: yes. caller: i want to bring something up that people it seems to gloss over, a teacher in finland explained to people in america over the internet why people believe that schools in finland are the best in the world. specifically what they do in finland is they pay teachers like doctors, and students enjoy over an hour of recess and there is no mandatory testing, which is the lead opposite of what they do in america. i was a student in schools that were underfunded, i had principals charging students and families around the end of the year in order to be able to pass on to the next grade because the schools were underfunded. my father was a teacher so i had experienced that. i have a big issue with this, i have a big understanding of this, i also have a very big -- host: last call we will take on
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this topic. grover norquist will be our guest when it comes to education and proposals for tax reform and conservative politics. later, we will hear from the naral pro-choice america president. that is coming up on "washington journal" right after this. booktv for the harlem book fair on the state of african-american literature, multicultural publishing, and the black arts movement. live coverage starts saturday morning at 11:45 a.m. eastern. now you can stay in touch with
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like us on hd, facebook, and follow us on twitter. "washington journal" continues. groverur guest, norquist, president of americans for tax reform. good morning. guest: good morning. host: where do you see immigration policy going in congress? guest: i think we ought to do something because we need to move sooner rather than later. we have a lot of high-tech schools that are to be coming into the country. we make it difficult for people to come here and get phds. we have a tremendous advantage as an nation. the reason why the united states is the dominant, powerful nation, as we have had a pro-immigration policy for 300 years. people have been whining about it since the germans started sneaking into pennsylvania in the 1500s. there is always the concern. now we are whining about the new guys. this is our comparative advantage. it is why japan is not number
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one. remember the book in the 1980's, "japan is number one"? they are not having children. we absorb people from all over the planet better than everyone else. china is not the future. they are starting to see declining workforce numbers, declining overall numbers, and people can't move from germany or france in china, as with japan. it is our competitive advantage. we should be careful, make sure that we have folks coming in that we want to, not have folks that we don't, but we have a lot people who will become great americans, become wonderful americans for immigration. host: as far as political will, eric cantor lost his race in virginia and a lot of people out to do that to immigration policy. do you think that is a factor? guest: i think there was an
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effort to run that as a panic -- at the time, polling immediately that they found 22% of the people voted against cantor popout was a key issue -- thought that was a key issue could when you ask people about all the issues and for them to tell you what was important, immigration was way down. there are a number of issues in the states, and said the party arguments and fights and so on. if you are a national leader in congress -- this has happened to democrats as well -- you're spending your time in washington and you spend your time flying around the country and you think everybody in the district understands the important work you are doing on the national level. how come you weren't here for the local chamber of commerce lunch? eric cantor still has a great future ahead of him praise could be a senator or governor someday. this was a surprise to everyone, including the guy who won, who will be a great congressman
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himself. there is nothing wrong with him, he is a great advocate for limited government and a great, solid free-market professor. there is a series of things -- there is a lot of lack of trust between congress and the administration. the president keeps saying "i don't care what laws you pass, i will do what i want." he passed his own law on health care, the one that he theoretically supported and he keeps not in forcing whole chunks of it because you choose -- because he chooses not to. how you pass a law, it difficult, contentious law, and then handed to a president who says "i will select which parts of this law to enforce and which i won't," that is a huge change. discussed has been and talked about, and certain pieces of it -- the dreamer act, the high-tech stuff, the stem,
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science, technology, engineering, and that students being able to stay, legal status for people who have been here for a long time and it can good ,itizen -- good almost-citizens the polling tells us those are consensus issues. to do those,e able but there is this lack of trust right now. host: the administration -- does the immigration policy it wants to see done, public it by -- propagated by deportation policy -- complicated by deportation policy. guest: that is an interesting question of how we got all those kids to show. was the administration missed communicating what support for the dreamer act was? what were his ambassadors doing? do they not go on television and explain what is going on? that is sheer incompetence.
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it is amazing that you cannot have foreseen this sort of thing to getting to happen. i know we spend a lot of time spying on americans but do we keep track of what is going on in other countries? there is some real challenges -- host: complicate immigration policy going forward? guest: yes. this is not an administration that can chew gum and walk at the same time. when you asked congress to join them in that process, i don't think the administration has the and i'mh to deal with, not sure that the newspapers contribute -- can cover these as true projects. host: the president is set to go down to texas. how does he address this in the best way possible as far as immigration policy is concerned? guest: he asked to solve the crisis of the day that is largely of his creation. an apology every once in a while would be nice. but then we need to back up and say what do we do long-term.
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challenge right now, long-term what we need to do? long-term we need to be taking a lot more talent in this country. we need a guest worker program. we used to have one. we did not have a lot of illegal immigration at the border when there was a guest worker program. people could cross the border and visit their families and bring money home and come here. and organize labor, the labor unions told kennedy and johnson they wanted that stopped and they wanted to form farmers into unions. cesar chavez used to stand at the border with a baseball bat. he was not an ethnic uighur, he was a labor union thug -- not an ethnic leader, he was a labor union thug who was opposed to people coming in. there was a left-wing professor who wrote an article making the case that every restrictionist policy on immigration that has been passed or even discussed
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seriously in american history, going back to the chinese exclusion act, our first anti-immigration law, were all pushed by the labor unions because they have this zero-sum understanding. they don't understand that more people means more consumers and producers and gdp. we have 3 million people in the country and now we have 300 million people in the country. we are significantly wealthier today. more people in a free market, in a free, open society, make everybody better off. in a socialist society, more people just make everybody poor, or the middle ages or something like that. but in a free, open society, more people are at an invented. -- added advantage. organized labor has done a lot of damage to this country because of its anti-immigration posturing. host: grover norquist is our guest.
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the numbers are on your screen. ohio, our first stop. this is marked on the democrats line. caller: grover, i just want to talk to you. i am concerned. the republicans party stance on drilling. i am a member of tribe unlimited, an avid fly fisherman. henley had this song "the me of the innocence," "find a place to go untouched by man." i understand this line because i love places where you don't have to put up with mining. there, it, creek out
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is just a beautiful national forest. and as a fisherman we are always fighting to keep a few places untouched by man, because these are nice basis for the kids, hunting, fishing, all those things that people like to do outdoors -- host: thanks, mark. guest: you want to go to a place untouched man. when you show up to a place untouched by man it ceases to be untouched by man. there seems to be something about opposition to exploring for energy, natural gas, fracking, oil, coal, other things. partly back to the issue of immigration. time tohis a difficult discuss integration? -- to discuss immigration?
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because the economy is so bad. one part of an appointment has gotten better. why? people are leaving the workforce. people who are working age have decided they have given up, they can't find a job they want, they are not willing to -- they are not up for it. people who don't have a job and people who are working part-time because i are trying to find a full-time job tobecause they are trying find a job, that is 12.1%. that is not getting better, when people talk about one of the unemployment rates that we sometimes talk about being cute 6% -- being cute and 6%, that gives the government credit every time someone gives up and stopped looking.
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unemploymentnd -- and underemployment is historically high and it has not gotten better. the number of people not working historic also at an high, not improved since the recession got better. every recession since world war ii, this is the worst one. we are technically in a recovery. it has technically been a recovery since 6 months in. obama inherited ever cover -- an economy that was beginning to turn around good but compared to other countries, we are about 5 million jobs short. if we recover at a normal, average pace, 5 million people are unemployed today. recovering at the pace ronald reagan's economy recovered, and he had inflation and the soviet union. his economic situation was significantly tougher than the
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one obama got. i know they make the counterargument but you have to be very young and not remember inflation and not remember the nature of the soviet union in terms of its demands on the that.y's focus to miss if obama's economy had grown at reagan's pace, since the bottom of the recession, there would be 10 million more americans working. the cost of raising taxes, spending, creating new entitlements rather than reforming the ones we have that don't work as well as we would like them to, 10 million people out of work today. 10 million americans don't have jobs because of instead of having lower taxes and less administrationis has had more regulations, more spending, higher taxes, new government programs without reforming -- it would be nice to before creating a second va called obamacare that
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they are all going to be and. they don't fix the messes that government has created an create new ones. host: jim. caller: good morning. guest: hi, jim. caller: we had limited immigration from the 1920's to the 1960's and all through that time the united states was the leader in technological innovation. '40s, '50s, in this country. they are unemployed right now. it is a myth that do not have enough i.t. people. bringing in these i.t. countries from other countries -- people from other countries? they make half the money americans do. it is about cheap labor. i have got to say, mr. norquist, you have got to respond to that.
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we have done it before massive integration and you are wrong. not work in that field. i do talk to people who do. and allalk to microsoft the various high companies that are all cutting, not all engineers and not all software peeper -- people are the same. it is not like eating an assembly line worker and you can just plug somebody in. different skills are needed for different things. on theft has a campus canadian side of our border. they cannot find them here in the united states. bottlenecks.ese willing to pay more, by the way. .hey pay additionally
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there is no fee to pay. recently coming in from india or another country. i understand the frustration. the economy is not good. we had a short conversation about how full-time employment is, how many people are not working at all, if we had a less spending,x, that hurts higher taxes as well. unfortunately, you are just looking at where people are hiring. some people bring people to canada because they cannot get them across the border. it is unfortunately a real problem. bill, independent line. >> morning. when i see your face on the tv,
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i see your head wants to explode. i am truly independent. i voted republican and democrat across the board. rick snyder, republican -- i am a retired union guy and we supported him, we put in our money to get him elected -- what he ran on, what he said, all of a sudden, he gets to office and he raised my taxes 4.2%. on the federal side, you have a ton of politicians. >> is a commitment to all americans. i will not vote for tax increases. that is the pledge they make to the american people.
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>> is it a pledge, a promise? what is it? >> thank you for asking. harry reid mistakes it sometimes. in 1955.ure made it was put together by the reagan administration to be organizing for obama but on the specific issue of taxes. . grassroots group toward the end, there was a real concern that if you took andinal tax rates down broaden the base, not a trojan inse for tax increases, future years, the rates would drift back up again. i designed a pledge and shared it with people and asked their
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opinion. i promised the american people and opposing vote to raise rates or broaden the base unless it comes down. no net tax increase. you have about 100 house members 86 -- senators and he kept it rather neutral. it kept the rates from going up for a while as well. on the part of deducing tax board,0 five percent on pushing for tax increases. at least playing an important role, republicans in the house, a majority of the members of the house, sign a pledge. the vast majority of republicans
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in the senate are not the entire senate. to raise commitment taxes. when there is a crisis, a 2.5 china dollar debt increase -- debt ceiling increase. ok, we will, in bipartisan niceness, vote for for trillion to cover overspending. but you have to help us in the next 10 years reduce total government spending by $2.5 trillion. so while we are letting you borrow more, we are beginning to get our house in order on spending. >> you may have heard this from the outgoing democratic
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congressman claiming your tax pledge is leading to what has been -- >> many of my republican colleagues now find they must sign a grover norquist pledge when they run for congress out hishey will carry goals. >> they do not have to sign a pledge, but most republicans do. >> what happens when they break the pledge? it is not to us. the most famous pledge breaker ,as george herbert walker bush who had a very successful presidency.
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he kicked iraq out of kuwait and did not get stuck occupying the place for 10 years. collapse of the soviet union without a lot of blood on the floor. both of those were difficult, skillful, well executed foreign policy. the problem was in order to win the primary, he promised he would never raise taxes. he was 14 points behind until he said he would govern as reagan. promising to be reagan third term, he was elected. his staff told him it is ok, you can rely on the american people. can i do that? i kind of said i wouldn't. oh ok, nevermind. it is the people. unfortunately, he made the decision to break his word. he could not get himself reelected.
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from 100ent republicans to the house. lots of people have promised over the last 3000 years, if you let me be the do, i will not raise taxes and they do not. a commitmentke credible? it is written down, it is public, it is online, there are pictures of the guy taking the pledge in many cases because they do it in public because they intend to keep it. everyone watches george herbert walker bush throw away a perfectly good -- bush, whiche since is why we did not have a tax increase between 1993 and 2009. the republicans had control of one of the three bodies.
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dave from florida, go ahead. caller: good morning. it is a pleasure to be able to talk with you. ofould like to put a couple and see if these facts are correct or not correct. around for a long time. you worked with many presidents since back in 1980. and 1979, i worked with the carter guys. >> excellent. in the government, you have a chart that shows the highest marginal tax rates from 1913
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2000 11. you are more familiar with that? >> yes. >> is it true mr. norquist that -- tax rate was above 60% let me rephrase that. 1934-1980,that from taxes were at least 70% on the marginal rate from the taxpayers from 1934 to at least 1980, they were about 70% sometimes they were above 94. >> that was at the highest rates. very high and then there are a gott number of ways people around it.
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how does the kennedy clan stay rich when they never earn any money? they somehow get past the tax. there were a lot of ways people got around the marginal rates. better to get rid of and bring them down. and to get rid of all the deductions and loopholes and rockefeller ways to not pay taxes. >> here is john on our independent line. trek c-span, i love you. i have a couple of comments. i am calling as an embarrassed issue of -- are you somewhat familiar with this embarrassment? >> somewhat, but from here in d.c.. what happened? >> well, this guy was supposed
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to show up in a little coffee house, ease philadelphia, did not show up, a lot of older guys from all mississippi coming here all the time, they are totally embarrassed and this is in no thereflective of mississippi republican party. i would think you would be so heavily involved in the tea party, you would know something about this and call the sky and ask him to come to his senses. it is totally embarrassing. >> i was not sure if he was mad at the challenger who came close but did not wind, or the incumbent. this has been a big knockdown drag out fight there. cochran ended up winning. i do not know. i like primaries and i think they're healthy.
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cochran, whose folder can becauseith the times, for many years, he was an earmark appropriations senator who would bring money from other states to mississippi, the problem bringing other people's states to his, is you're only allowed to do that -- so you want credit for all the drag him from illinois, but the fact that mississippi is shipping money from alaska to california to new deal so is part of the it gets hidden. better than the republicans in the house and senate have agreed to is getting ready -- rid of earmarks and drag the money back from home. >> from twitter, this viewer
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asks, if the economy is doing badly, why are we creating $200,000 -- jobs a month? is better than what we have been having, but during the reagan years, with a much smaller population, we would get 300,000 months -- jobs a month. that is the level of job creation we should have been having quite sure years ago. now, we would have to for several years have twice this rate of growth to get to average for the next number of years, growing twice the rate we're doing. 200,000 is better than what we had. that is good. but the unemployment rate asking, do you not have a job or do you only have a part-time job
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, only people who want a part-time job and cannot get it, not recovery territory. we is to consider that a really bad economy. taking my call. , the republicans are running congress. have thepublicans such house of representatives. the democrats run the senate, the other half of congress. i find it interesting when people say, look at how unpopular congress is. a republican house is creating jobs and reducing taxes and is about to extend bonus up to
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create -- appreciation. it was a very good idea that obama had. speeding up depreciation so we can get more investment and plant equipment more quickly and at a lower cost. in the senate, remember they forgot for about four years in a row to even pass a budget under harry reid. they are just down in lockdowns in the november election. what do i think of congress? i do not know. i like the house and am not happy with the way the senate has been not functioning. but the house has passed budgets. we have watched the senate not do things. but you're right that congress is unpopular. i do not like congress, i like the republican house. i am disappointed in harry reid's nonfunctioning senate.
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>> karen on the independent line. >> hello. your last comment intrigues me as far as you say congress, the house is passing things and the senate is going things, when in reality, the house is only passing things that are agreeable to them and not ofthing that has any kind bipartisan support. they know this when they send it through. it is just empty things they are threat -- they are sending through. to say there passing things is disingenuous. they're really just passing things that they want and not thinking of anyone else. also, when you talk about was note, obamacare president obama's first idea. he wanted single-payer. congress would not even allow that to come on.
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to passhim 18 months that legislation and get it shoved through as you republicans like to say. 18 months of negotiating and trying and listening to ideas even the republicans like to lie and say they did not have any. nothing but committees and hearings for 18 months. it took him almost two years of his first administration to get that passed. >> ok. passed obamacare was with only democratic votes. there was no republican input at all. it did not talk to them or meet with them. the president has played golf once with a republican. doing it comfortable having a meeting with republicans in the house.
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telling know or that is a bad idea or i will not do it you tell me to. for whatever reason, there has been less conversation in the white house. how many of them have been invited to play golf. as much golf is excessive for anybody, but if you were at thet playing golf with house and senate, congressmen and senators, it might actually be work to walk around and chat with somebody and talk with them. that is not what is happening. with not spending the time senate in the house. they did not offer to work with republicans on. extending and making permanent the bonus depreciation was an idea the obama administration could push forward. it is a very good idea, certainly a must the president has changed his mind on his once that's and see has been here.
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able to signe that. democrats and the senate have all voted for it in the past. you are just not correct in saying republicans are passing rings and the democrats have not and theye -- they have have even voted for them in the past. >> i have a couple of things. taxesid, do not raise the at no point. think about it. andcost of living goes up people get a raise at work. if they do not, they cannot survive. for thee employees federal government and anybody else. you have to raise taxes or you will not survive. you will not maintain at the same level we maintained all
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these years. the second thing, no republican will play golf with president obama. they cannot afford to politically. thing, we are the only country -- all of these countries are kicking our but here they have single or universal health care. we do not have it. if they can get away from having to pay their own insurance so they can compete on a level playing field with all of these countries, we are in big trouble very >> a couple of things. you said we have to raise taxes because of inflation. inflation, unfortunately, is taxesould into a lot of people pay. if you get a pay raise and you are paying income taxes, you pay more in taxes.
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until july this year , toore than half the year pay the total cost of government spending and the total cost of regulatory burdens. that is an awfully high number. for the lastad several years. unfortunately, the government is not getting long-term less expensive. in the private sector, we expect people to make phones and have them be better and higher quality because we expect them to get better. we have not asked the same of the country. diet. not on a farmers are more productive. they can create more food or farmer than we did years ago. to becomee government
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more entrepreneurial and not be so slow to move on. i was recently talking about asr and school choice disruptive technologies that are hitting major cities. some politicians are saying, let's do everything the way we have always done and regulations on everything. costs are falling and drivers are making more money because they're working more productively because of the old-style, no, we like our regulatory system because it is easy to tax. we do not need parents making choices about where they send kids to school. consumers and voters and taxpayers are demanding to be treated by their government, their local school system, their
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local offices and so on, more like they are when they go to a store or a restaurant. when you go to mcdonald's, you know how you'll be treated. an expectation of, i will wait for how long? i will be treated help lately? i will go to school and have a question, how long will i sit on the couch? if you go to a private business in the real world and you walk in with a complaint and he spent , you get of dollars treated differently and government needs to treat citizens with the respect they would if they were customers. that is not happening now. it needs to happen. if the government runs health care by taxing, it is not free.
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businesses do not have to pay the cost of health care. businesses have to. that does not reduce the cost. reduces the talk to people from canada and britain. how long does it take to wait to get certain operations? costs.vel can drop i do not think anyone is willing to wait to get health care as people in other countries have been. good morning. a couple of quick points. we do not do a good job of meddling in other affairs around the world.
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the rest of the world hates us and we are very dependent on foreign oil. borders are insecure. we need more jobs in the country. of money on bases all over the world. why not take our military back here and stay out of all of the other countries meddling in ther affairs, and invest in military and go back to the 600 ship navy idea? >> there was a gentleman who shared your views, president george washington. he has speeches on that. he said, we have to add into the constitution no one is allowed more than that and everyone said, ok. but atense needs are set
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the same time, he wanted a strong national defense, he was again -- against unnecessary foreign entanglements. we need to take a look at some of the expenses. reduced the number of basis six or seven times and saved a lot ofmoney and made a money when it was not needed anymore and perhaps we could do it on a similar effort on overseas bases to see how much we need and how much we're willing to spend on that. >> seabrook, new hampshire, independent line. adjust not cut me off and allow me to speak -- >> i am not the guy with the switch. you have got to be quick.
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reagan did cut taxes quite a bit but he also increased taxes occasions based on attack -- the fact that his deficit was exploding. >> it sounds funny that we have to whine about how much smaller reagan had it. your are right, reagan should not have agreed. >> another point of view here. the intelligence agencies by over $20. our military is $1 trillion. the first time we have gone through two wars without increasing taxes. our deficit is an astronomical high. failed tomething we understand.
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you look at the whole grand picture of our debt and you look at it from court taxes and you have to understand revenues. and obama, every four dollars, cuts. he wanted that and they said no. first of all, i was there when that happened. i ran into senator kerry in the senate and he said, i want to talk to you about this and maybe we could work something out. a $1.2 trillion overspending with spending restraint or tax increases by $1.2 trillion. $1.4 trillion. not 10-1, all tax increases.
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speaking for obama, 100 billion for more spending for a number -- another stimulus, three points up. wasdeal he was offering more taxes and more spending. the republicans said no and we sequester. every time's come i hear about this pink unicorn, the fort one promise. it was never written down. it was not offered. it did not exist. they just cheated reagan. bush a couple years later got cheated 42-1. i wish reagan had not done that, but what was bush doing? did he sleep through the reagan administration and not know it does not mean anything in promises for the future? -- the sequester is different because that was a change in the law. that actually will keep the -- will keep it down.
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promiselaw and not a for the appropriators to behave. it is not a promise to remain small. it is in fact a law and very important. your overall numbers on spending are high in terms of some of the categories you mentioned. spending is high, just not quite as high as you mentioned. about not raising taxes for paying for iraq and afghanistan. i think that is one of the things you did correctly in that approach. i am in the final stages of writing a book, a hick surrey of taxes in the united states. the history on tax rates are quite interesting and i go into it. with the exception of 1812 -- they accepted a tax increase very temporarily and went right
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back down. the taxes to pay for the war. only other words, you raise a bunch of taxes and then some of them go away and some of them come down and some of them take a while to go i and some of them stay forever. the bush administration wisely said, we will not put the funding for the war into a normal budget. it was oh is a supplemental appropriation, which i/o is thought was silly. we have 100,000 guys over there. why in june did you just decide you noticed this? it was not the point. all that spending would continue and taxes would stay in the baseline. they actually cut taxes. strong economic growth.
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2003-2004, 2005, 2006. years of strong economic growth. they did not permanently raise taxes or spending. nothese words and, we are stuck with the kinds of extra spending taxes previous wars left us. is his website. thank you for being with us. >> later in the program, bloomberg reporter mark will explain how we became the world passes biggest oil producer. before those segments, we will get an update from c-span radio. this hour.ional news at least 16 people have been killed near a clinic in eastern afghanistan.
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the international coalition says four were killed in the attack but they did not disclose their nationalities. the nato secretary-general meets today with president obama at the white house and they will talk about nato's noncombat mission in afghanistan after 2014, as well as other issues. presidentay, the travels out west and will talk about minimum wage. -- he said he allowed -- this allowed alex to pay her rent and
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groceries. she wrote personally. challengesg economic the president is trying to address. the president is set to ask congress former agency spending of more than $2 billion to help with unaccompanied children across in the border. he will not seek legal changes to send them back home more quickly. that decision comes after immigration advocates objected strongly to administration proposals to send thousands of miners back home to guatemala, where many faced gang violence. more on unaccompanied children they hearng when testimony on the subject. eastern. at 10:00 a.m. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> now you can keep in touch
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with current events from the nation's capital using any phone at any time. simply call. congressional coverage, public affairs forms, and today's washington journal program. listen to a recap of the day's events on washington today. you can hear audio of the sunday public affairs programs beginning sunday at noon eastern. call 626, 8888. washington journal continues. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] -- usjoining us in our now, ilyse hogue. what happened with hobby lobby, and what is your perspective? is one of disappointment, but also i am disturbed. what we saw were five male essentially saying
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discrimination against women is not discrimination at all. what happened is the court decided in favor of private corporation, saying our thegious beliefs trump civic duty we have to provide top brands of our employees. ofs is coming on the heels the administration and the country technology if you are truly a religious institution, you are exempt. you can do your own ideas about what your health care looks like. but if you are a private corporation, we have to play by certain rules in a civil society and this is one of them. hobby lobby was one of dozens of companies that, i am not going to. i am not going to provide certain kinds of contraception's. host: that cause abortions. guest: they do not.
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every single medical expert in the country agrees these four kinds of contraception that your viewers will be familiar with do not actually incite abortion. they prevent fertilization. saying isustice is the medical science, the facts, are of no consequence legally because we are talking about someone's belief system so there is no way for us to adjudicate what they believe even though all of medical society has lined up and that, but their facts are flawed. they said, we will not provide these kinds of contraception and the court said, you do not have to. it is disturbing because what it essentially says his women's health care is different than other kinds of health care. in this instance, for women's health care, my boss gets to do notwhat i do and choose, even though it is my earnings.
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we have to remember our interest coverage is part of our compensation. it is not something they just willingly provide. hobby lobby provide -- enjoys a really nice tax break to pay its employees health insurance. is, punish the female workers, set off a domino effect, because the very nice -- the next day, we had other corporations who said, i do not want to cover contraception at all. it is chipping away at what every doctor in the country says is basic women's health care. >> these cases concerned solely with the contraceptive mandate. faildate must necessarily is it conflicts with an employer's please. guest: he did write that and we will see. one of the immediate things that happened after was a number of employees wrote a letter to president obama saying, just so
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you know, if you pass an that says ider cannot discriminate against gays and lesbians, i intend to file a religious claim that is against -- saying that is against my religion. the court tried to say this is a narrow ruling but they did not prevent anyone from coming back and saying, they do not prevent anyone else from coming back on religious grounds and a set a very frightening precedent that says, that building over there that you think make widgets, it actually has a spiritual belief and it may be different than yours if you choose to work there. it trumps yours. that is part of a people are finding so disturbing. we value religious liberty in this country. the country was actually built -- it host: not all types would fall under the idea of a religious belief system.
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guest: the court ruled it corporations -- not a matter of size. it covers 52% of our economy. it means the majority of the shares are held by a small number of people. your viewers will be familiar with both looked at closely held corporations like toys "r" us. the sweeping effect is pronounced. host: what is the worst-case scenario? i do not think we have seen it. we know many women will lose access to many kinds of contraception, which many have been using for quite a while and see as instrumental to their health. i think what we will start to see is people will file religious claims on behalf of their companies. we might see people saying, we
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do not want to hire date people, saying hiv is against my spiritual voice, vaccines are, and the court will now set a precedent that it will have to hear those cases because it granted these companies can hold spiritual book -- spiritual beliefs. host: do you know of any making their way up into the supreme court? guest: there are desolate some going through the courts that they do not want other kinds of cash section. saying, i will use this court is against myt religious beliefs to hire lg db people. if you want to ask ilyse hogue questions on it --
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our first call is from derek in minnesota. go ahead. knowing that -- you are pro-choice, it is in your name. i will assume that. knowing men are now the minority in the country and women make up 53%, technically, the minority and the have a voice example is obviously, if two people have sex and somebody decides to have an abortion, why is there no choice for the man in that side of the equation and would you support that? iq. guest: -- thank you. an enormouse seeing amount of equality for men. hobby lobby does cover things drugs,agra and other while it is refusing to cover contraception, which, as we
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know, is actually the way we reduce abortion in the country, providing as much access to contraception. enormouso see is numbers of couples making this decision together. i also think the law is clear on this. women do have the ultimate choice. when they are denied they are denied the entire range of choices that stop us from getting to the place or caller is talking about. providence, rhode island, democrats line. >> good morning. i am calling concerning this issue here. i will never forget, i have a 23-year-old daughter. of was born in december 1990. at that time, a sonogram technology was there. it was not that good. inemember seeing my daughter
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the sonogram. her body moving around. a small little thing. that conclusively told me there was a life over there. i am a pro-life democrat. what i do not like that is going on here -- the democratic party -- i only voted republican once, ron reagan. beenemocratic party has taken over and it is not for working men anymore. it has been taken over by an elite and very wealthy elite. primarily located in manhattan and los angeles. she has got a smirk on her face right now. i am looking at it. what i want to address is this. conclusively, with the advances in sonogram technology
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up to the year 2000, is definitely a life. she is smiling. you are snuffing it out. [laughter] data, seven in 10 americans across the board, whether you're talking about south carolina or kansas, support the rights in roe versus wade. there are a whole bunch of reasons for that one. when abortion is made illegal, the number of abortions do not go down. the number of deaths and injuries to women go up here is some people just do not believe government should be involved in our most personal decisions. the that spans both parties. weis an interesting dynamic see, that every ethnicity and every age group and every party, there is still support for women and our partners and our doctors to make our most personal health care decisions. i am from texas and am very familiar with all the different kinds of democrats and republicans. i think the caller, he is
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entitled to his opinion. i think the question is what the law should do in terms of taken -- taking the caller's opinion. the law is clear that this is a privacy issue and women and cert -- we know our own individual circumstances. host: virginia next on our republican line. caller: good morning and thank taking my call. it is disturbing to watch the position of the youth. i understand both sides, but i certainly look at hobby lobby as standing up for their religious rights. we and the muslim, right and the nation would be anylly for a muslim having kind of desire he had and
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supporting that. children with god in their lives and it should be respected. alexandra, 21, she -- i to have contraception would hope it would be only after she was married and not before. i know that is no longer a moral stance of the people in the united states but it should be. who attempts to do the right thing in life, and their parents raised them idea our the grandparents had in morality and ethics, that we want to instill in our children. i do not want to take anymore of your time. i want to say if you are moral and ethical, it seems like you should be patted on the back rather than made to feel the full.
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-- the fool. guest: it sounds like the caller has a lovely family and i applaud them for it. this country have different kinds of attitudes and different kinds of partnerships. that is what makes this country wonderful. what is challenging about the hobby lobby case, it does actually reject medical science, that these kinds of contraception's are used for all sorts of conditions, including preventing unintended pregnancy, including for married people. it is a funny thing to note the iud is actually used disproportionately by married people who feel like their family size is what they have chosen. it sounds like the caller has a lovely family but it is not pursuant to the case. if you actually want to make a case that hobby lobby should be consistent, the question of why they're not covering contraception used by married people, single people, people with medical conditions, people who want to on -- avoid
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unintended pregnancies, but they are covering viagra and any other kinds of drugs, that is a relevant question in this case. that leads us to the fact it is a discrimination against one classic people and that is people who work for hobby lobby. that was part of your response agreed to the national review, which wrote of your response. they also added justice kennedy's language. is important to confirm the premise of the court's opinion is the assumption that the hhs regulation here furthers a legitimate and compelling interest in the health of female employees. national review goes on to say kennedy pointed out the government has already admitted by coming up with accommodation that it could provide a less restrictive way. did they take the wrong approach? >> it is an interesting thing to lay it out and put a finer point
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on it. what justice kennedy is arguing is different than what you're caller is our gain. this is kennedy is saying it is in the best interest to provide contraception for women in this country for medical reasons to control family sizes and all of the above. because the government had already said for religious institutions and nonprofits, we could figure out another way to do it. he was arguing it is less onerous on the government than it is for the business. issued anext day, they series of emergency rulings, including the one on wheaton college, that showed they do not have to abide by that very accommodation. >> for those not familiar -- >> it said, you do not have to cover this at all. it was not, you have to find a third-party administrator, which is what the government argued. so basically, we are getting
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into the legal weeds here and i had to study up hard on this, but people said, that means the accommodation will not stand. accommodation, we will here at the supreme court. however, it does not necessarily say that. the burden is on the government this is the least restrictive way to accomplish their goals in this case, providing contraception. this is not the least restrictive way and justice kennedy's position because they have arty shown this is another way. --h the wheaton ruling, they the very next day, that the accommodation may not stand either, so we are back to square one, which is unequal health care for women than for men. host: in florida, on the independent line. go ahead. i wanted to ask you about the religious component in
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the whole argument, which you have been addressing from the pro-choice side. university, you know, there were some people who do not want obama to speak there a number of years ago because of his views on abortion. meanwhile, at georgetown university, obama spoke over that school and they covered up the christian cross in the background. i sided with obama in notre dame but i was basically against them putting them a white -- putting a white sheet over the christian cross. if obama would choose that with, he has got to put up the institution, which includes the catholic church he is that. i sympathize to a certain extent with the ruling because i figure .t is very similar to it could you comment on that question mark >> i am not familiar with the case in georgetown.
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i know our president is a christian. i cannot say anything more than that. the point the caller is making --ut live religious liberty about religious liberty is an important one. it is what makes democracy thrive. what we lost track of is that religious liberty means two things. i do not have to do anything i do not want to do because of my own personal faith and the government can't force me to do that, however, i do not get to force anyone else to do anything they do not want to do because of my personal faith. i do not get to tell my employees what to do. that keeps our religious liberty from -- thriving and makes sure we have the kind of dim diversity -- the diversity in our democracy. what happened in the hobby lobby case is that the owners can say, this is not right for my family. this is not what i want to do for my family. but when you are a private corporation that enjoys the tax
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breaks and benefits of being an american or being in a democracy, you are expected to play by a certain set of roles. part of those is that i do not get to impose my religious beliefs on my employees and they have just broken those rules, which really does and danger religious liberty. that is why we saw a lot of speaking -- of faith up. a lot preachers and reference said this was not a victory for religious liberty. it was a defeat for the kind of religious liberty we value and the country where it >> if you're on twitter is saying, -- in this case, it would be the customer's choice. the government has a compelling interest in making sure the health insurance plans that taxpayers are subsidizing because the corporations get tax breaks, are comprehensive enough that it actually affects everyone equally. every employee has equal access and they can choose to use it or not, but they have to have us to
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an equal level of coverage in their health insurance plans. in this case, that is exactly what this is doing, not making it an equal. what the affordable care act did say, we doactually better economically and from a health perspective, from a civic perspective, when we include the most amount of preventative medicines, preventative treatments possible. that is where contraception got covered. it is a preventative treatment. if you already have a family can afford,l you you want, it prevents unintended pregnancies. -- the case actually flies in the face of that. >> there is a story from nbc news that says more than half of rapidly insured women are getting birth control already under the health-care law. guest: which is a great step forward. host: if that is arty happening,
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why is hobby lobby concerned? guest: because in america, in american -- in america, we believe there is a compelling reason for everyone to get the baseline. people should not be excluded simply because of where they work or where they live. it is like what we do with the civil rights laws. you do not get different voting rules just because you live in the south. you do not get every health insurance rules just because you are employed by this private corporation or not this one. helen from maryland is on our democrat line. for thethanks to c-span opportunity to talk about hobby lobby. i am a big customer of hobby lobby and i will stop being a big customer. i am pro-choice. i have a religious background. however, they went to the and what hobby
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lobby is doing right now, they are deciding what people can do in their homes with their families. hobby lobby should be doing that for their families. they are making enough money to do whatever they want. but the employees are not. if that was part of their coverage in the past because it just happened that they can stop doing it. if that was part of their coverage, perhaps hobby in the lobby needs to increase the pay for these employees so they can get the contraceptives they want and also, if they are not getting it from hobby lobby's payment, they will get it out of the taxpayers pockets. in order to cover what ever contraceptives they want. is, hobby lobby is making this judgment on contraceptives when the majority of their products in their store happen to be made in china.
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the worst human rights and the restriction of how many kids you can have, and i am sure they are doing something to prevent that. guest: i think the caller is making the point that a lot of people are frustrated about. hobby lobby is inconsistent about this being a deeply spiritual belief for them. there's been a lot of talk about the fact that their pension funds are invested in the very manufacturers of the contraception devices that they claim to be morally opposed to. it, iss i understand legally inadmissible. however, it is frustrating for a lot of people who believe it goes to motive, that if hobby lobby was truly infusing its business, as it claims to, with these spiritual values, neither
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of those facts would be true because they would be so opposed to these kinds of contraception that they were not have them in the first place and certainly wouldn't be invested in them as a company. host: richie on the line for ilyse hogue. caller: i am a pro-choice republican and also a paramedic. male supreme court ,aid that abortion was legal and parenthood is for all people, not just for women. men who get tested for testicular cancer can utilize birth-control things. it is not just for women. that is why i support birth-control.. guest: thank you, richie. you are correct, it was 9 male justices who decided roe. you are dwindling breed, pro-choice republican, although
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there used to be many. the point the caller is making is that the reproductive health field is large and it includes services for both men and women, including contraception devices that are used for a whole host of conditions, including avoiding unintended pregnancy but not exclusively that. the discussion of when to use these devices should be left to the individual, their family, and the doctor is necessary. that is what we are disturbed by in the hobby lobby case that expen -- that it extends the boss' reach from the boardroom to the bedroom. host: the cofounders of hobby lobby hit the microphones after the decision to give their thoughts. [video clip] >> the supreme court reaffirmed what my family has always believed, that america is a family founded on and sustained
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by religious liberty. it is a long journey but an important one for our family and those who wish to be guided in all areas of life, including businesses, by faith and conscience. we are truly thankful for the decision that allowed us to continue operating our family business according to our principles. one of those principles is to beude,, and we are grateful to our employees, our customers, to the many individuals from all walks of life who have shown their support through word, action, and prior. we thank god for his many blessings and continued grace -- and allowing our continued -- is continued grace to shine on our nation. host: ms. hogue, any thoughts? guest: no. again, there is a one-sided understanding of religious liberty, which is my religion, my liberty, and their employees are not being afforded the same right that we hold true in that it not only goes
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against my morality but it is instrumental to my way of life to be able to access forward productive health care coverage. they are being thrown by the wayside. host: hear the thoughts on twitter guest: the kinds of devices that are in question with hobby lobby roughly amount to a month's pay for low-wage workers. lot is a lot, and it is a for people with the means of the hobby lobby founders and the people we just sought to just say "oh, just go out and get it." the other problem is that hobby lobby is benefiting from tax breaks from taxpayers who are saying "you are going to give your employees health-care coverage so we will subsidize to do that."
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you can't have it both ways. one thing the court would've chosen to do is to say that this is not a substantial burden on your religious liberty because you can choose not to give your employees health-care at all. there is a penalty for that and it is probably the same as what they are paying for health care so it is not a financial burden on the company. they could have just chosen not to give their employees health coverage at all. the employees would be free to go to the exchange and get it on the open exchange and have full coverage. they are not even offering their employees the option. they're saying male employees, you can get what you want to employees and even though you're , you aree same co-pay only going to get when i tell you you can get. host: pennsylvania, republican line. morning, folks. i an respect us and are in women's health and i'm very pro-life. opened this part by saying that these are not
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talkifacients, when you tak about things that prevent implantation. do notligious people kill innocent, unborn babies. when they began was when the sperm at the egg, and that is when they consider any human life because that is -- a new human life because that is a new dna. it is not the mother's, it is a new human person beginning to grow. anything that events that baby continuing to grow and having one choice at life, that is what they are discussing. it is not just religious liberty, it is science also. ands watching "cosmos," they said that scientifically we know when the sperm that the egg. how much does planned parenthood make as a profit each year? tl you, not -- can you,
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ell me that? guest: i don't work for planned parenthood and i don't know what their business model is. they provide health care to men and women who otherwise would not have access to it at all. the caller is entitled to her religiously-based believe that life begins whenever she pleases begins. it is not my it union, it is -- it is not my opinion, it is the american association of oncologists and medical experts who line up and said that there is a scientific definition of abortion, and that is not what these contraception devices do. it was anthought admissible for the same reason the caller says "i believe it." they are judging believed that that does not make it -- they are judging believed but that does not make it scientifically true. host: could we say that if insurance -- an employer does
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not provide these certain types of contraception, women could get other means of getting them, whether from planned parenthood -- guest: in some places, not all places. we are facing a crisis in this country where clinics are being closed down, women in my home state of texas are having to travel hundreds of miles for reproductive health care. the hobby lobby case is just one piece of a long-term and very sustained effort to chip away at women's ability to access reproductive health care to make your decisions about what is best for us. there is an expense piece to it. if the committees are not going to pay even though they are getting a tax break -- if the companies are not going to pay even though they're getting a tax break, the taxpayers are toing twice for hobby lobby be able to hold its religious beliefs in this one case, again, where it didn't have it before
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and had the pension funds invested in the same manufacturers. host: sandy for michigan on the independent line. good morning. sandy, are you there? sorry, got to push the button first. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say, on the case of the supreme court against hobby lobby, they did not say that a woman cannot have contraception could all they said was that you cannot have it for free. if i am an atheist and i don't believe that contraception -- it doesn't have anything to do with withligion, it has to do the fact that i have to pay for somebody else to sleep around. .nd i don't like it wil i never did and i don't expect i should have to pay for somebody else that did. guest: one of the things that caller just said is a common misconception, that this is free contraception.
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our benefits packages including health care benefits are part of our employment. it is what we pay for when we go to work every single day. that is where the dissemination and i will justice comes in because the men who work at -- discrimination and unequal justice comes in because the men who work at hobby lobby are actually getting everything that they possibly could want, including viagra, if they choose to sleep around or choose to use it in their marriage. , birthen -- an iuds control in question, is disproportionately used by married people as a reliable device that they are not getting that same benefit even though they are working as hard and as long and the companies getting the same tax breaks. not free, it is not necessarily for people to sleep around, although it would be nice if we could judge each other's behavior, medical concerns beyond preventing , forcingd pregnancies
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a woman to make sure that they don't have families before they are ready. the medical experts on the government believe that there is a compelling interest, including justice kennedy, please there is an compelling interest in making sure that these resources and medical services are available to women who had paid for them themselves with their labor. glenda in pennsylvania, democrats line. caller: i just wanted to know if hobby lobby pays for vasectomies. guest: you know, i don't know that for sure but i don't know that they don't. we do know that they pay for viagra, which is sort of been the comparison. i don't know if they pay for vasectomies although we have no reason to believe that they don't because they're typically covered in may these plants. but i honestly don't know. host: a second decision-maker the court dealt with free-speech
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zones. could you tell viewers what happened? guest: sure. the week before hobby lobby was decided there was a court decision that came down that said that protected buffer zones around reproductive health clinics in massachusetts were no longer constitutional, that what had been put in place by public safety officers who were routinely dealing with people being harassed, threatened, , going into clinics, that those could no longer stand and that there would be access to those women as they were entering the clinics, the family, by the protesters who were almost always there. host: how did the justices decide on this? guest: the justices decided on free-speech grounds, which we found really -- host: unanimous? guest: it was unanimous, 9-0. it didn't leave in place other kinds of buffer zones around the country. there is one in -- it did leave in place other kinds of
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buffer zones around the country. there is one in colorado. what is interesting about this one is that the speech in question was not being in. imp -- notbeing being impeded. people going and said "i can hear you just fine, i will just continue going into the clinic." around polling places and we have seen it at political conventions where protesters are asked to stay a certain length back from the delegates going into the convention. we have a history in this country of balancing free-speech with public safety, and in the case of massachusetts the reason -- host: "the boston globe" shows a gentleman looks like he is almost pushed to the street as far as the free-speech zone is concerned. guest: it was 35 feet. the buffer zone around the polling places is about 100
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feet. we have a history in this country of balancing free-speech with public safety and in the case of massachusetts, the attorney general asked for the law because people left and murdered in the clinics -- people have been murdered in the clinics and has gotten pushed aside in the wake of this case. people have been routinely harassed, tension was rising, and one day somebody walked in and shot people in the clinic and they decided that we have got to do something, we have to protect public safety, and the supreme court said not this way, not here. we are disappointed, but there is a lot of attention going into replacing that law with one that closely coincides with the ones that have been upheld by the supreme court because there is a compelling interest in protecting doctors and clinic workers as well as those going in for their appointment. host: brad in texas, republican line. caller: actually, it is bret, but it is not a big deal.
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i'm glad we can have an open forum here. i know for a fact that hobby lobby does cover 60 types of birth control that are fda-approved. that hobbyeption lobby is against or will not the reasonine, iud, they are morally opposed to those is they believe according to science or their studies and that these pills or contraceptives actually have the ability to possibly harm or a human that is growing inside the female. what i think we are getting off-track here is it seems more like we are arguing about free stuff rather than contraception and the health of women.
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they do offer 16 different types of birth control. guest: so we have already covered the fact that regardless believes,bby lobby the medical establishment says this does not actualisrupt -- pregnancy or life as medical people understand it. it is true that they cover 16. the very next day what we saw -- companies saying "i don't want to cover any of these." if you cover 16 but not 20, that is like saying i will cover these 16 drugs, but the one that works best for you i am deciding you doyou don't get. there are specific reasons that women and families choose these devices. there are medical reasons, they have to do with how our bodies react to things. it is not mix-and-match. into thee walking pharmacy and letting your pharmacist decide what is best for you, not your doctor or yourself or your onex. it -- or your own experience. that is what is the disturbing
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to people. in this case the court failed us and hobby lobby gets to make our personal decisions and we will keep fighting to make sure that all women have access. host: will this become an issue in the midterms and 2016? guest: i can't speak to 2016 yet. we are still trying to get through 2014. but i believe it will be a huge issue. the outrage we have expressed over this where 90% of women use birth control at some point in our lifetime and families depend on it, you have a real margin of feeling that has prevailed that is basically i know better than you, better than your family of what you should do in your personal life. i think they will be looking for an electoral remedy and this s the idea that republicans are out of touch with women and what families need in this country. host: ilyse hogue, president of
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naral pro-choice america. is the website if you want to find out more. ms. hogue, thank you. guest: thank you. host: bloomberg energy reporter mark shenk explains how the united states has become the worlds biggest oil producer, outpacing russia and saudi arabia. before that, a news update from c-span radio. >> israel says it is struck nearly 100 sites in gaza in response to the nearly 300 rockets and mortars that have been fired from their at israel in recent weeks. also considering a grounded nation of gaza and is mobilizing troops to tensions have escalated following the kidnapping and murders of 3 israeli teens and the abduction and slaying of a palestinian teen that followed. iraq'ste on iraq -- parliament has officially be its next session for early next week, this after facing this is
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him over a five-week break to get leaders time to agree on a new government. held the first session since the april elections last week but failed to agree on a new speaker, president, and prime minister. lawmakers are under pressure from the u.s. and other countries to form a government that can deal with the militants who have overrun much of the country could back here in washington, congress is in session and republican senator john cornyn in prepared remarks says president barack obama "needs a wake-up call" when it comes to the immigration crisis. the white house says the president has no plans to visit the u.s.-mexico border when he travels to texas this week, but senator cornyn says the president needs to do so. the senate convenes at 10:00 a.m. eastern time and you can listen live on c-span radio or watch the senate floor live on c-span2. those are the latest headlines on c-span radio. c-spanover 35 years,
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brings public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings, and conferences them and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house all as a public service of private industry. we are c-span, created by the cable tv industry 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on facebook, i follow us on twitter. in two book tv this weekend for the harlem book fair the discussion on the state of african-american literature, multicultural publishing, on the black arts movement. i've coverage starts at 11: ash live coverage starts 11:45 a.m. eastern. "washington journal" continues. host: our final guest joins us from new york, mark shenk from bloomberg. he reports on energy and oil,
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and he is here to talk about the united states and oil capability. good morning. guest: good morning. host: the headline says that we have overtaken saudi arabia as an oil producer. why has that happened? guest: well, new technologies. prices rose a few years ago before the great recession. people got minds together and good old american ingenuity came ofwith our refinements fracturing and a new well technology which open up whole new reservoirs, especially in the middle the country, places like the dakotas. host: while it may be familiar to some, what is fracking, and tell us about its role in the oil resurgence. guest: basically, high-pressure are, you know, put against a rock a steep in the ground -- rock bass deep in the
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ground and it releases oil, gas, and other things that are trapped. it is old technology. it was developed in the u.s. more than 60 years ago. but it has been refined, and it really has taken off in the last decade. it was first great big for developing natural gas in places like pennsylvania but it was found that a lot of oil came so it has been really revolutionary in places like texas and the dakotas. host: guesstimates about this oil-producing weird doing come from the -- the estimates about this oil-producing we are doing come from bankamerica. how long will this run last? guest: well, we are not at our peak. the energy information administration in washington. that washington predicts production will grow by one
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million barrels this year. we are looking for further growth in u.s. production, not only on crude oil, but natural gas. it looks like we will be in this sweet spot, as it were, for i guess another 20 years. host: so the daily output exceeded 11 billion barrels. that happened in the first quarter of 2014. also when it comes to crude oil production, it is the highest volume produced in 24 years. it surpassed all other countries according to information from bloomberg news. and it overtook saudi arabia and russia. our guest is joining us from new york to talk about this change in oil production in the united states. he is mark shenk from bloomberg. if you want to ask questions about what is going on, user chance to do so. -- here is your chance to do so. host: mr. shenk from bloomberg
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will take your questions in just a moment. mr. shenk, if we are producing this much more oil, do we expect to see a drop in gasoline and other types of fuels in the united states? guest: well, races here have always been lower than in our competitor ash prices here have always been lower than in our competitors --prices here have always been lower than in our competitors. natural gas especially is a lot cheaper here than it is in our competitors, and it made u.s. industry quite competitive. , iyes, but on the other hand would not say that gasoline prices will fall as a result. will this reduce our dependence on where we get oil from when it comes to other countries? guest: that most definitely is all ready happening. happening. i believe in december we produced 90% of the energy we consume in the u.s., the highest level since the 1980's.
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we definitely are more energy independent and we were in the -- than we were in the past. host: as far as what we taken or at least what we are bringing in oil-wise, what about the usage we have in the united states? what is oil and fuel usage like as far as a day-to-day basis? guest: during the recession, energy consumption fell. the economy slowed, used less. but it hasn't returned to prerecession levels. it appears that people's driving habits have changed. new standards for automobiles, energy efficiency standards. the u.s. demand, although is growing a little bit now, is yet to be anywhere close to where we were and 2008, 2007. that also adds to our energy independence here in the u.s..
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host: when it comes to crude oil production, we are the largest oil consumer. 7.5 million barrels of crude as of april 2014. mark shenk talking about u.s. overtaking saudi arabia and other countries as the world's biggest oil producer. tom, republican line. caller: what does the reporter think about the energy companies not having to tell the public what kind of chemicals they are injecting down into the ground? really myt is not area of expertise. i think we are in kind of a blind area. this is all happened so quickly that i don't think there has been a regulatory framework done on a federal level. what you are left with is state rules. so yes, i think in time this will be remedied. host: next call is from atlanta, georgia. thanks for holding on.
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caller: how you doing? i would like to ask a question of him. he said the price of oil would remain the same, but how come over there for the countries , gas and stuff cost them like nine cents, $.10 a gallon, and we are paying four dollars a gallon? host: mr. shenk? guest: well, that is the case in some countries, but you know, norway is also a huge exporter of crude oil, and they pay about the highest in the world. it really is decisions made on a local level. in the u.s. we do have taxes but they are relatively low compared to other countries paid in countries like venezuela, they have $.10 gasoline but the government subsidizes it.
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the government there is losing money for every gallon of gasoline sold. they have a problem of smuggling in neighboring countries because it is so cheap. yes, it is much cheaper in countries like saudi arabia and venezuela, but that is because the government subsidizes it. tony, sun valley, california, independent line. good morning, everyone. you can see when we look at the crude oil prices per barrel and the bush days, the gas prices spiked over four of gas, one a barrel went up to like $180 a barrel -- i'm sorry, i'm nervous. but you see a trend where the prices keep on hovering around four dollars, maybe a little bit less come even though the price per barrel has gone down to almost $60 a barrel.
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so the question i wanted to ask was what is going to happen to the natural gas prices? we are investing so much money in natural gas. what will happen with natural gas prices when the natural gas ports are ready to start export them? guest: well, that is a good question. we really don't know. there is a lot of natural gas crude.ompared to, say, the u.s. is very well supplied with natural gas. there has been a problem with burning it off at some wells and places like north dakota. given the amount that is being invested, yes, the u.s. is already an exporter and it will increase, but it probably won't be enough to have an effect on domestic prices. host: tim in california, democrats line. caller: hi there. my question is what kind of
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taxes are currently assessed on oil producers at the well, at the source? similarly, what kinds of tax producerse given to that constitute a subsidy? guest: that is a good question. i'm not sure about all of them. are credits when you make investments in anything, and investment has been skyrocketing. a lot of that can be declared on tax forms. there are taxes on the state level. what -- often based on on hand at the end of the year. but i can't get into specifics. host: mr. shenk, we have a map of opec countries. how do these countries view our newfound status?
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guest: probably depends on the country. a country like saudi arabia probably doesn't want to see us go up them up, up, but they don't want to see oil prices rise at such a high level that they destroyed the global economy. so they can live with it. a country like venezuela or iran is probably not so happy about it, because first of all, they have limited supply, they want to have very high prices. so it really depends. y is: pennsylvania, and up next for mark shenk of bloomberg news. caller: hi, guys. so with our production is going down, a very shortsighted optimism, but if prices are not going out for us, i fail to see how this is getting us and he energy independence -- getting us any
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energy independence. can you respond to that? guest: well, we are importing a lot less, that is a fact. it has been great for the u.s. trade balance. on the east coast we probably but stateshe impact, like north dakota weren't really impacted at all by the recession. there is really this large part of the country, be it the rocky mountains states, the great plains, even west texas, which are booming as a result of the increase in production. positive -- this is the positive impact of the rise in production. host: mark shenk, there is a graphic in "the wall street journal" this morning about products that come from the shale and crude oil in north dakota. first of all, what is shale oil? describe its role in america's
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resurgence as far as being a producer of oil. guest: well, it has been known for a long time that there were hydrocarbons trapped very deep in these formations, in places like north dakota. but there really wasn't a way to bring them to the surface economically until quite recently, and that is the cause. if you look at a graph of u.s. oil production, you will see that it peaked in 1970 and then of one theception last came online, it went in one direction, down. in the last decade, as production in the bakken came online and certain areas like the permian basin in west texas, you have seen a really dramatic uptick in production, just because the use of fracking and new well technology has made these deposits that were just an accessible, at least
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economically accessible and a reasonable place -- at a reasonable price. host: is there a way to tell the results of refracting in an area -- are there any unintended consequences that have been look that? guest: again, this is all so new, at least i know -- at least on a large scale. for instance, methane can be released and that is not good for the environment. there are also problems with the well water in certain places. they are coming up with a regulatory framework sort of as they go. ofother countries they kind banned it until they get their regular story framework together. it depends on the state, what happens. yes, there are issues. really, it is a weighing of do you want more energy independence, do you want a
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better environment, or is there some way you can do both? host: jack in michigan, democrats line. caller: yes, my question is about fracking in the great lakes states. this region represents 20% of the world potable water. if it becomes drilled as it is in north dakota, we are running a great risk of polluting this. and we have written to our -- debbieand to our seven out, are represented -- debbie stabenow, our representative here in michigan come and we don't get much feedback. at least it should be delayed until they really have an environmental evaluation of what this could do. this is critical. with the amount of water that -- involved in this process, where are we going to get our drinking water in the future.
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well, this has been the issue. there are places around the world this is really a problem, because it involves the use of a lot of water, and there can be a lot of waste water. it also -- these things can also be decided to a certain degree on a state level. the state of michigan could ban it, or have severe limits. it really is -- we are in this new world without much to guide us because this is really all new issues. and yeah, it really involves a balancing of environmental and energy independence concerns. host: you report about these things. what about local economies where these new geysers are forming, where these new places are being drilled? how are they faring because of what is going on? guest: well, economically they
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are doing great. this is like western pennsylvania cap -- faces like western pennsylvania, towns that boomed 100 years ago, are doing really well right now. after bring in workers. real estate prices are up. yes, there are local benefits. and as i said earlier, north dakota was never -- the recession never happen there. local economies are doing very well. the impact on the national economy will be a lot less. but the energy producing regions are doing well. isertise is being gamed and -- expertise that is being gained is going to be exported and that will help companies in the u.s. as well. host: pittsburgh, pennsylvania, republican line. caller: the caller before asked about tax breaks. local andia, between
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state taxes, $.50 a gallon. they're making more money than the government and states are, the oil committees. number two, the reason they get those tax breaks, they have millions of acres and they do not drill one yet they are paying for it. as far as fracking goes, they have not proved anything negative about fracking. there is an excellent movie where theycknation" talk to professors and expose all the fraud people are saying about fracking. if anybody is to blame for gas prices going up it is because we are not drilling. when bush left office and was $1.89 a gallon. to localermission governments to drill for oil and it went down. that is my comment, thank you. guest: well, prices are down and you couldk argue about what the reasoning
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was, but the technology just wasn't developed until last decade. in the u.s., of course, regulation is a little lighter than in other parts of the world and people were able to try this new technology, and states like pennsylvania have become major producers of natural gas. and wes a huge growth don't know what prices would have been like if you do not have this new supply on hand. mark shenk host: mark shenk, we have the refining capability in the u.s.? guest: yes, we do, and it has been expanding. and i started in this field of -- when i started in this field about 15 years ago, the u.s. was growing as an importer of products. not only were we a net importer of crude oil but we were also a net importer of gasoline,
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diesel, other fuels that the consumer uses. , which isng industry also been a really grim industry -- which has often been a really grim industry as far as profit margins, has taken advantage of the cheaper crude oil here in the u.s. and taken off. the u.s. has become a major exporter of things like diesel and gasoline. countries that we import crude from now by our gasoline. there is a net positive effect for the u.s. economy. host: john from new jersey, go ahead. caller: my thing is with the fracking, when halliburton refined it and then george bush put into law that it is exempt from the safe water drinking at epa, and the other
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caller, one more thing, there is a documentary called "meet the frackers" and there is a string that is frozen -- and in north dakota there is a stream that is frozen except for one small area that is bubbling. arebody says what chemicals there -- exactly how it works -- host: beth from illinois, good morning. caller: i just wanted to comment on who is really profiting now that we are independent now. i don't believe, except for the limited amount of jobs that would be given to striving middle-class people, wouldn't you agree that the oil companies and all the executives that work there are the ones that are profiting from this business? well, there is no question that the people
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developing and producing this fuel are profiting from it could otherwise they wouldn't -- nothing from it. otherwise they wouldn't be making these huge investments. but yes, there is a trickle-down effect, at least that is what these studies have shown, at least in certain regions. u.s. naturallier, gas prices especially are lower than in our competitors. you might not notice it because i haven't fallen but they are not rising at the same rate they would otherwise. host: oklahoma, independent line. yes, we have been getting articles in our paper about earthquakes compared to california, and i know there is a lot of fracking going on around here, and it just has me wondering -- and i feel them, and i am the northeast corner of
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oklahoma, and i just wonder if that was the effect of the fracking. be.t: it definitely can that is another one of the controversies. fracking has been known to cause tremors. it can lead to poisoning drinking water and the release of methane. so yes, these things all have to be weighed when making decisions about it. host: shelbyville, missouri. blo ofor mark shenk bloomberg. caller: i was wondering if anybody thinks we are ever going to be energy independent as long as we use the fossil fuels that robson deprives future -- that robs and deprives future generations. i don't think anyone has ever figured out the true cost of fossil fuels. the only way we will know that is future generations have to
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determine that. guest: you know, we might be energy independent at some point future,ot-too-distant but there is always an environmental cost. that is something we have to decide on as a society. host: is there a number of how much we have to produce to become independent? it really depends because things have been upended. if we produce a couple million barrels more, it would be pretty darn close. other areas -- as i mentioned earlier with gasoline, natural gas we produce more than we use. call. -- coal. we might get to the point where we are energy independent on a net basis but we still have to import soil. -- import some oil. host: harry, republican line.
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caller: good morning. i have an issue with some of the people calling in. they are crying all the way to the bank with a loaf of bread under there are. m. the refineries are businesses subsidized by us, the people ourselves, because we have such great need. you keep blaming refineries for the cost of fuel and it is in them -- isn't them. my question is when was the last refinery built, are there any future refineries going to be bold in this country, and what do they cost? guest: wow, very good questions. there hasn't been much new refinery built in quite a long time. , there have been inefficient ones also that have closed in the last couple
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decades. we are gettinge massive investment in refineries, specially on the gulf coast. theiris improving efficiency and increasing their capacity. he might have fewer refineries that we might've had long ago, but the capacity of the refineries we have is greater. there is talk of refineries, but it is a really huge, expensive undertaking. and we have yet to see if one will be -- they will start construction. host: texas, go ahead. caller: yes, you are saying there is no environmental impact on the fracking, but i know for a fact that texas never had earthquakes. in the131 earthquakes dallas-ft. worth area this year and twice as many in oklahoma city. we had a more earthquakes in texas and oklahoma then -- then san francisco.
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tell me why. we are destroying the earth's formation. guest: well, i think i did say earlier that earth tremors have been connected to fracking. that is a fact. as a society people have to make a decision. i'm not saying it is good or bad. but fracking has been shown to cause tremors. on the negative side as far as fracking. host: from california, this is doug. caller: would supply of and demand down for gasoline -- with supply of and demand down for gasoline, maybe a better way of typing the problem is looking at transportation taxes because they are talking about raising the tax burden, transportation funding, but here in california, last 20 years or so, projects that used it take -- used to take a month now take 2 or 3
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years. maybe the oversight to check out the timetables of these projects -- it is union labor and im a former union man and i know exactly how they work. host: thank you. mr. shenk? guest: yes? host: go ahead. guest: oh. yeah, i really don't have anything to say about that. that is really not my area of expertise. of course california had some of the highest gasoline prices in the country, but that is because they have aes, and very strict environmental regulations, and then gasoline is harder to make and that is why it is higher. host: democrats line, this is paul. caller: good morning, how are you today? host: i'm well, thank you. the price ofhenk, natural gas is so much higher worldwide than it is in the
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united states. i am under the assumption that it is not on the world market because some politicians in washington are pushing for our natural gas to be right on the world market. that would cause it to rise along with every other country. it is triple in some other countries. i would really like to know the answer to that question. thank you very much. with all this fracking going on, if they put it on the world market, we will be paying the high prices along with the environmental costs, drinking water being poisoned and everything. go computation would completely -- looking forward to your answer. thank you. guest: well, natural gas is really hard to ship. we don't really have the infrastructure in place to export huge oddities of natural
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gas -- huge quantities of natural gas. we send some to mexico and canada, and there have been cargos elsewhere. in thefor the capacity ports, it has to be cooled and put under high pressure. there will be some increase in exports. haveay that the low prices isected the u.s. economy that we have seen a revival in our petrochemical industry, fertilizer, things like that. you are seeing an increase in production in those areas because it is so much cheaper to make than here and we export those products. we might not see a huge gain in natural gas exports but we are seeing again in exports of products made with natural gas. host: from new rochelle, new york, democrats line, dale is up
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next. caller: i think you might've kind of just answered my question about natural gas exports. with the ukraine shortage and the difficulties of getting lng from russia, the united states might be engaging in a supply -- kind of increased the supply to make up the difference they are not getting from russia. i have heard a lot about that on european is and not a lot on u.s. news. in oklahoma and they had town hall meetings because they apparently averaged 3 per month. that has been an issue in oklahoma. 3 months in ae row where over 300 parts per million of co2 in the atmosphere. hostguest: well, yes. in germany, for instance, they outlawed fracking. i believe they are going to
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allow it again because of earthquake -- but because of earthquakes. this is a decision that has to be made. the people in oklahoma are upset have staten they can government regulations in place. yes, europe has a problem. they get a lot of the natural gas from russia and there really isn't any obvious source to make up for that. that is a problem. the u.s. doesn't have the capability to export that kind of natural gas, and they probably don't have the lng offloading capability to even take that much natural gas could in otheroduction grows areas there will be geopolitical benefits as well. host: pennsylvania. here is tom. caller: good morning.
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there is an issue that i don't hear being discussed. with all these new technologies massive a risk of contamination of the environment, of the drinking water, of the air, coupled with the mess in the specific areas where they are actually doing the work. but what i never here is any of reward fortee taking the risk. everybody here in the nation was taking risk with all this new technology because it was the groundwater, it pollutes the air -- it pollutes the groundwater, it pollutes the air. common sense will tell you it does that. it is not a guarantee but it is very, very possible. but i never see is any payback reward for the general public taking the risk to the ridiculous point where this idiot governor that we have in
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pennsylvania will not even tax these companies that are making withs -- making billions this fracking process. guest: well, there are environmental issues. it is unclear how bad they are. in the state of new york we recently -- cities, towns are now allowed to ban fracking on a local basis. in the u.s. we are doing it on a state-by-state basis. of course the landowners who are -- who have the wells are benefiting, and the people who work in the industry. the people whose drinking water is contaminated, you know, obviously they are not. this is going to cause, and already has, political uproar on a local basis. host: west virginia, democrats line.
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here is george. hi. caller: good morning. understand is now that we are the largest gold producing country in the world -- oil producing country in the world, how come third world countries get their people gasoline at a lower price, for one thing, and that is mostly southern countries. also, why are we still using corn to make gasoline? that is very bad for your engines and your car. it is proven, it breaks your engine down, it is no good for your engine, and we should be using corn for food and not gasoline. we have got plenty of oil now. we shouldn't use corn anymore. the big welcome these are the ones who are not building these new, what do you asked the big oil companies --the big oil companies are the ones when a building these new, what you call them, plans to break them down.
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the government should get after the oil companies to start building new plants so they can manufacture this gasoline at a lower price, a cheaper price, and then they can do with the gas price to two dollars a gallon for the american people like all the third world countries do. guest: well, that was a couple questions there. i will start with the reason gasoline is a lot cheaper in a number of the road countries is that it is just number of the third world countries -- in a number of the third world countries is that it is subsidized by the government. there is an economic cost. in the u.s. we have some of the lowest taxes on gasoline in the developed world. correct andler is that gasoline production is not
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something that the federal government is really involved in . they don't build refineries. appear that refinery capacity will rise in the next two years -- next few years, just because they are making more money. and the thing about ethanol -- we were mentioning earlier, nobody foresaw that the u.s. would produce more gasoline -- more crude oil him a pardon me, and natural gas. .t was a steady downward slope in the last decade new technologies come online and the picture has changed a great deal. these decorations were put in place before. -- these regulations were put in place before. they might not have put the requirements in place in a time of booming u.s. production. they were put in place before the fracking boom.
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it is something that might have to be looked at again now that we are in a different place. host: georgia, this is marshall. caller: i was calling in regards of -- andh and one water purification systems in communities that are involved in fracking. >guest: i didn't hear the last part of that. host: marshall, could you repeat it? caller: sure, i wanted to know if you knew of any companies invested in water purification systems in communities involved in fracking. guest: i don't know. sorry, i don't have an answer for you. host: mr. shenk, if we are producing so much oil now, can we export crude oil to other countries? guest: it has been outlawed for quite a long time. -- you can ship it to,
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say, canada. it is coming back as products for use in america. there were exceptions for alaskan oil to go to asia. but on the whole, u.s. crude is used in the u.s. what we do here, though, is refine it into things like soa -- like a gasoline and send it overseas. there is no regulation, really, the export of petroleum byproducts, but there is regulation of the export of crude. host: our guest is mark shenk. esther shank, thanks for your time. -- mr. shenk, thanks for your time. guest: thank you. host: that is it for today's program. another one comes your way at 7:00 tomorrow morning. see you then. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute]
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>> here on c-span, we are allied underneath the u.s. capitol. this is known as the senate subway stop. it is a connecting point to the senate office buildings u.s. capitol. it is a place where senators and staff and guest come into the u.s. capitol underground. the capitolects to visitor center, also underground. at this hour, the senate arms services committee is holding a meeting here behind closed doors. they will hear from chuck hagel and the joint chiefs of chaff -- .f staff chairman mark dempsey you can see we have cameras outside. there goes the center of


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