tv Florida Gubernatorial Debate CSPAN October 15, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT
and now, live from miami, a debate in the governor's race. scottent republican rick taking on charlie crist who is seeking to return to the governor's office. a special election-year series brought to you by brower college providing exceptional programs and resources. florida, putting florida first. and the florida press association, the trade association for florida's newspaper providing communities with the news and information relative to their life with underwriting by the florida league of cities. by the florida association of insurance agents.
, theda's trust and choice florida credit union association. read it unions are giving banking a better name. florida, helping them create real possibilities in claudeives and by the pepper foundation, preserving american democracy. now, from the beautiful campus college, decision 2014 before you vote presents the candidates for the offices of governor. now, from cbs four, elliott rodriguez. >> good evening evening, everyone. we are live from broward college broadcasting to 11 florida television markets from bailey hall where we are prepared to have the two major party
candidates for florida governor square off for the next hour. i am elliott rodriguez, anger at cbs miami. miami.nchor at cbs floridaus from the sentinel and the florida times newspaper in jacksonville. we welcome all of you watching us and we thank our host tonight, broward college and its president, j david armstrong who is joining us in the audience with a group of students. tonight's debate is said to be interactive. we want to hear from you. we have a panel of journalists monitoring all of your questions and comments on facebook and twitter at #flgovdebate. manny garcia,re
executive director of the naples ay,ly news and patricia bis a reporter for the miami herald. also the executive editor of the tallahassee democrat and the political editor of the sarasota herald tribune. and we want to take a shot of the stage here in broward county. candidates are not stepping up on the stage. [laughter] ladies and gentlemen, we have a an extremely peculiar situation right now. governor charlie crist. [applause] florida governor rick scott, the
incumbent governor and republican candidate for governor is also in the building. governor rick scott? we have been told that governor scott will not be participating in this debate. let me explain what this is all about. asked to have has a small fan placed underneath his podium. the rules of the debate i was shown by the scott campaign say there should be no fan. somehow there is a fan there. and for that reason, ladies and gentlemen, i am told governor scott will not join us for this debate.
ladies and gentlemen, this is a debate. rosemary, what can we say? >> [inaudible] [applause] i am sad the people of florida -- >> we are not asking you a .uestion, governor crist i'm asking rosemary about the situation we find ourselves in. >> do the rules of the debate say that there should be no fan? >> not that i am aware of. scott rules that the campaign that showed us that says no electronics can be used -- >> are we going to talk about a fan, or the environment,
education, and the future of our state. there are serious issues facing our state. detecting our environment, making sure we have ethical and honest leaders. if he's going to give it to me, i'm going to take it. >> this is not a platform for one candidate. we are hoping governor scott will join us on the stage but i am told he will. in all fairness, i was shown a copy of the rules that said there would be no fans on the podium. >> very strange.
>> my understanding is that governor scott will be coming out. have you ever seen anything like this? >> i haven't. it seems remarkable over a trivial issue. no matter which side you are on. [applause] >> thank you. ladies and gentlemen, that has to be the most unique beginning to any debate, not only in florida but anywhere in the country. let us start. please, let's start with the rules. the rules of this debate are one
thete for the question for first candidate, the second candidate will have a minute and the first candidate will have 30 seconds to respond. lightning round in here with 20 seconds. let's ask the first question determined by a coin toss. you have spent millions of dollars in this campaign defining your opponent through .egative advertising by thelic is frustrated tone and rancor of this debate. they can tell them why you deserve to be governor. >> i have been here 55 years
.rowing up in st. petersburg we need to invest in education because we need to. it's important we do it right for higher education. i'm a graduate of florida state university and i know our institutions need to have appropriate investment. and we need to be focused on the middle class and job creation. wage, althoughm i think we need to raise the minimum wage, but we need to give an opportunity for people in the middle-class to do better for themselves and it starts with a great education. >> governor scott, same question to you. >> thank you for the opportunity to be here. i want to thank my wife who has been with me since i was 19. we are blessed with two dutiful
daughters and three grandsons. why should they elect me as governor? you saw the ad in 2010. and shea wonderful mom was willing to divorce a husband that was abusive which gave me a shot. if she had not divorced that man, i don't know what that life would be like. she remarried, five kids and struggle to put food on the table. andived in public housing she said if you go to church a lot, study hard, be an eagle scout, you have a shot at the american dream. i ran in 2010 because i believe in the dream. >> your rebuttal? >> it's important we reinvest in education. by $1.3tt cut education
million. you can't do that. you can't cut education to the bone that way and get expect our children -- and expect our children to get a good education. onhave to have a laser focus that and we also have to focus on our universities. again, rick scott took $300 million. governor scott, you claim florida lost 825,000 jobs because of charlie crist. what hetell us specifically did to cause those job losses? jobs lost now.00 between 2006 and jeb bush left him with a great economy, unemployment went from 3.5 211.1%. 3.5% to 11.1%.
he raised taxes by $2.2 billion. he shouldn't raise taxes after he said he wouldn't but in a recession when people can't afford it? call ont willing to companies. i talk to companies all a time. if you think about building a business, i want them to be in florida. at lower taxes, less regulation. that is why we lost 832,000 jobs when charlie was governor. the people of florida know that i didn't cause the global economic meltdown anymore -- thank you. anymore than rick scott caused the national economic recovery. people are smarter than that.
they understand and they understood we were serving in a difficult time and we had to make tough choices. it wasn't easy but we got florida through. one of the ways we got through was to work in a bipartisan way, working with people across the aisle to take the recovery money to make sure we didn't have the fire 20,000 school teachers. that is something rick scott said was an absolute mistake. what would he do if something goes wrong with the economy again? >> the campaign slogan should be powerless for the jobless. you just heard he couldn't do anything. he didn't want to do the tough things and cut regulation. he spent all of his time trying to be vice president and running for the senate. 3000 teachers lost their jobs when charlie was governor. it hundred 32,000 people lost
their job. 832,000 people lost their job. support raising the minimum wage and you said you would raise it to $10.10. the other side points out many small businesses are struggling to keep the doors open. why should government tell them what they should pay their employees? >> it's important to raise the minimum wage because it's very hard for people to get by on what the minimum wages in florida. $7.93 is not enough to make ends meet. be an increase in income for hundreds of thousands of floridians. what a difference it would make. more money to be able to go to mom-and-pop small businesses around the state. have the opportunity to help those businesses do better and pay their employees more.
things aren't great in florida right now. i have been on a kitchen table to work talking to real people and some of them have to work two and three jobs to make ends meet. florida can do better than that. we deserve to have a governor fight for you, fight for equal pay for women. rick scott is against both. it's unfortunate. we can fix it and i look forward to it. >> so charlie is a lot of talk but he's not a lot of action. he had the opportunity and voted against minimum wage when he was in the senate. he didn't think it was the right thing to do. here is the problem. i want jobs. lost 832,000 jobs and wants to lose more. 5000 jobs will be lost with a minimum wage increase.
parents that didn't have a job and had their home almost be repossessed. charlie doesn't worry about those people and doesn't know what it's like. went from wages to know wages when he was governor. >> there you go again trying to blame the global economic meltdown on me. it's unbelievable he would continue to say that. he says he created all these new jobs all by himself. you can't trust rick. it's unfortunate. he spent so much money on television advertisement. the media says they are the most negative ads and most dishonest. when he tells you i lost a bunch of jobs that he brought back --
we want to hear from the voters. this debate is connected to social media and find out what the voters are saying through social media. us go to the naples daily news. what is trending on social media right now? >> elliott, you started it off, but one of the things that comes up is that between you and special interest groups, tens of millions of dollars have been spent that amounts to a scorched-earth campaign between you two. why should you be reelected when the campaign is so dirty? tell me they care about three things.
step one, they want a job. they want a job. they want a governor that says i will get up everyday and i will not be running for vice president or a u.s. senator. jobs?n i get more how can i get lockheed martin to move more jobs? who will travel to make sure i get more jobs? said, rick, get a good education. left, per student and overall education was less when he started. so what i work at every day, jobs. better education system. make sure you're living in a safe neighborhood. >> do you want to address the negative bad?
>> of course they are, so i might. i've had $50 million of negative ads thrown on me. you think i'm not tired of it? this is a race about the future of our state. you have to make a decision about who you want to be your next governor. rick scott has talked about the fact that he's called companies and he'se country offered $266 million to come here. only come through with 4% of the jobs that they promised. a 96% failure of jobs on that program. what would i do with $266 million? what i think is the right thing for florida. i would invest in small businesses, make sure they have a fighting chance. we need to protect florida first instead of bringing companies from outside the state to cannibalize our own businesses. ons important to be focused
who will fight for you. >> this is talk versus action. charlie has a job. he didn't want to do the job and call on companies. why didn't he want hurts to move a corporate office here? hertz to move the corporate office here? we have 261,000 job openings in the state right now. $27 an hour. that's not what charlie wants? >> the next question will be to governor crist. , we are on at college campus right now and we have college students that worry about tuition and debt. allowingd a bill universities to raise tuition and governor scott has riveted inh er increases --
prohibited further increases. >> let's look at all the facts. scott did in addition to what you said, the first year he allowed tuition to go up 15%. the premise of the question is not correct. it's important to point out to college students that if you had the hope of going to college on a scholarship, 50,000 of you are not able to do so today because of rick scott. i don't know why they reduce them that much. if you want to have the opportunity to go to college and do so in a way that you can afford it, i will seek your vote because i will restore those cuts because you need them and you deserve them. there is a young lady here tonight named marcella. i went to her house just over a week ago.
it she was upset and had a 4.7 grade point average. that's unbelievable to me but it's because of the cuts rick scott has brought to education. >> charlie is not concerned about the facts. orida.com.sforfl first off, bright futures. both underture charlie and me raised eligibility. think you would get a free ride with bright futures but you don't because of charlie's increase. think about a brand-new parent. i'm going to save my money and make sure my child can go to university. is $253.02, and now
we have the highest footing for state colleges and universities in the history of the state. month gotilies this back $200 million back in their pocket. >> your rebuttal? >> rick talks about telling the truth. a guy ran a company that had to pay the largest fine for fraud in the history of the united states of america. the truth hurts sometimes. and rick, this is also a fact. he pled the fifth 75 times so you wouldn't have to answer questions involved in it. it is not the kind of leadership florida deserves.
>> please hold your applause so we can get as many questions as possible. >> environmentalists are unhappy that you cut the management board, eliminated the department that regulated housing developments and in a record high budget, you give $17 million to the public land buying programs. >> when i took office, it was a big surprise to me. --ley sat on his hands charlie sat on his hands with a decade-long lawsuit. the epa and the corps of engineers tried to settle that lawsuit. i got the environmentalists on board and we had a record settlement. i went back to the legislature and they invested $880 million.
he was some time trying to restore the everglades but did nothing on the environment. >> florida has refused to accept $51 billion over 10 years to expand medicaid. it, a lot oft other people are asking for it since states found a way to accept it. florida had not. they did not push for it with the legislature. do away with what some of the states have done. expansion means an awful lot to about one million of our fellow for radians that currently do not get the health care they deserve.
rick scott won't lift a finger to get it done and i don't know why. when i do know is that they deserve to have those funds. we deserve to have a governor to make sure we get the expansion money that you have already sent to washington and you deserve to get back. people are hurting and suffering. that is the right thing to do. >> he was sitting in the governor's office and there was a legislative session going on. let's pass this because it is such a great idea.
people are losing their doctors and losing their plan. >> he has been governor for four years i think you would understand you don't bankrupt the state, you balance the budget. we did it every year on my four years as governor. >> remember, our debate is interactive. our social media panels will track comments.
we will be back after a two-minute break. >> a question about campaign ads. a are going to show you couple of the ads during the break. >> as governor, he cost more than 800,000 jobs. rick scott has created hundreds of thousands of jobs and is projected that he will create one million. votee for rick scott is a for more floridians employed. >> rick scott blames me for the financial crisis. that is ridiculous. the recession was not caused by me or you. do you know who caused it? greedy wall street people.
guys like rick scott. his company committed fraud. scott whos like rick crashed the economy. i am charlie crist. >> this is not a doorway. it was my doorway. i want to make sure that every child has the same opportunity for a better life. rick scott is closing the door on kits. he -- kids. spending less than when i was governor. when i was governor, we brought the parties together to open the doors of opportunity, not close them. together, we can do that again. >> sponsored by let's get to work. hasothing about obamacare irreparably harmed floridians. >> i think it has been great.
>> 300,000 health plans canceled. patients could lose doctors. >> i think it has been great. >> it may be great for charlie. it is not great for the rest of us. back to the debate. ♪ >> welcome back to the debate at broward counter -- college. we want you to hold your applause so that we can get as many questions in as possible. right now, i want to toss it over to my colleague. erica sergeant is with the social media panel. >> thank you. are interacting with us on facebook and twitter ashtag.he h
thetop topics are economy, cost of higher education, and climate change. now, we want to turn back to the social media panel and i will turn it over to patricia with the miami herald. this on facebook and twitter, what question do you have for governor crist? >> a lot of viewers want to know how you think you can solve problems. both you and governor scott. at odds withis religion and you are faced with a question where science is not consistent with faith, how do you deal with that problem? theomeone asked you what earth's age is, what you say? >> my religion is important. i have a deep faith in god and i read the bible. it is important to keep centered
and focused on that. i take it seriously and i try to use science and learn as much as i can. change,ssue of climate it is pretty clear that man is contributing to the problem. we are in florida tonight and it seems to me that, in south florida and the rest of the state, we are ground zero for the issue. my opponent says he is not a scientist and does not believe in it will stop i believe it is happening. we have an obligation to stop it. i have held summits in the past & executive orders to reduce emissions. beach, youon miami will find that, many days, it is actually flooding when it is not raining. that tells you all you need to know. well, i grew up in a
methodist church and my mom made sure i went to church a lot. they were devout christians. jesus christ is my savior. i read the bible. i go to sermons. my faith is important to me and my family. problems, i about think about solutions. take global warming. what we have done is focus on the solution. we have spent $350 million to deal with sea level rise and $100 million to protect coral reefs. we have increased funding for nourishment. on top of all that, moving water south. $80 million for the everglades. my faith is important to me and i believe in it. i am going to try to solve any problems i think need to be solved.
>> i do not have a rebuttal to that. we all have the right to feel how we feel about our creator and i respect that different people have a different point of view. for me, i'm happy to be a methodist, as well. maybe it is the only thing we agree on tonight. faith is important. science is important. my father is a medical doctor. so is one of my three sisters. the combination of sites is important and the core beliefs of religion are more significant. >> thank you. youovernor, you say that are against discrimination. the court says that the ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional because it is discriminatory. do you think it is discriminatory? believe inus discrimination. i do not believe in any discrimination.
in 2008, part of the democratic process led by charlie was a constitutional amendment that said that marriage is between a man and a woman. we have to understand that people have different views. it is going through the court system and whatever the supreme court decides, they will decide and i will abide by the law. what is important to me is that we need to understand that people have different views. we should not have ill will because people have different views. all this started with charlie as governor. >> i am not sure i got an answer to the question. i am not sure i got an answer to the question. do you believe it is discriminatory? >> i do not believe in discrimination. [gasps] i believe in traditional marriage.
the court is going to decide and they will make the decision. i do notor crist, believe in discrimination, either. so muchbelieve in it that i believe that gay couples should have the right to marry. [applause] i think the best way to capture this is -- you tried to get an answer and it is difficult. for us, to tell other people who love? what right do we have to tell other people who to marry. we have come to a place in society. decisions have been made. this is the right thing to do. we need to move forward to stop -- forward. >> remember, he gave an interview before and he said that he took prior positions for
political expediency to win office. we do not know what charlie believes. he has taken every side on this issue. [applause] >> thank you. the next question is from frank denton. >> the education research shows that, of all the factors that affect academic success, two thirds of them are outside of the school and in the family. communities, success in school is undercut by poor parenting or some other part of unhealthy home life. should a state have a role in educating children? what should it be? >> the state should and always has. i went to high school and i played football. it was a program, if you will. art,d been and, music,
sports. one of the things that really sad and made was governor scott cutting education. some schools had to be shut down. afterschool programs at to be mothballed. classes had to grow their class size. that is not the right thing to do. as i said, we have to invest in education. and they dramatic cuts are stubborn things. governor crist, that is investing in schools. the question was, does the state have responsibility for family life and teaching people to be better parents. >> the best way to do that is to
lead by example. any of us do that in our communities. whether working with the boy scouts or whatever the organization, it is important that all must play a role in that. >> thank you. .> i believe in rights i have a mother who went through a painful the force while pregnant with made because she was married to an abusive man. problems, -- we need to give parents the opportunity to raise their children. everybody has goals for the children. i have goals for my daughters and i know that their husbands have goals for our grandchildren. at school, the job is to educate they are solid citizens and have great careers. i believe in rights.
>> we will move on. watching everything around trayvon martin and the trial of george zimmerman, was justice served in the case? -- i will tell -- what -- here's what i did i sat down with the parents, sabrina and tracy. i wanted to make sure that they were comfortable that law enforcement was going to do the proper investigation. then, i sat down with the prosecutor to make sure that they were comfortable that justice would be served was up it went through the system and i respect the system. i want to thank trayvon martin's parents. some of the issues they had in missouri we did not have because of the parents.
my heart goes out to them and i cannot imagine losing a child. i want to thank the parents because they did a great job making sure we did not have the problems that they had in missouri. >> oven or crist? >> -- governor crist? >> it is hard to say. none of us were on the jury. we do not know the the facts. i used to be the attorney general and i know that judging from afar is not good. stand your ground needs to be fixed. have the right to defend ourselves. -- believes in the premise. it is the right thing to be able to defend yourself on the property. when you have a statute that allows the initiator of an instigation to end up killing another human being after they started the incident, there is
something fundamentally flawed with the law. we can protect the right to defend yourself and make sure that we do not have laws on the books that end up with the tragic death of trayvon martin. >> would you change stand your ground? >> i would not. after the tragic death, i still believe in the right to defend yourself. i cannot imagine losing a child like that. you know -- i have talked to sheriffs. the police association endorsed me and i stand with them that we need the law and place. .- in place >> governor, florida is the sunshine state and we are not in the top 10 for solar power development. inrgia has more than florida the last three years. why isn't florida aspiring to be
a leader in solar energy? >> florida should be. we are the sunshine state. it does not make sense not to do so. why are we not doing that? we started doing that are in my administration. unfortunately, with the scott administration, they are the friends of the utility industry and are funding his campaign. they have laws on the books that make it difficult for companies that want to develop solar energy in the sunshine state to do so. how do you fix it? you collect a different governor who believes in solar energy and wind. he believes in cleaner energy sources and is not beholden to the utility companies. it is just wrong. you need to have a governor who is on your side and has a bright idea about solar energy in the sunshine state because it is the right thing to do. >> governor scott?
charlie does not worry about the facts. while he was governor, the utility costs went up and went from below the national average to above the national average. utility rates have come down and now we are below the average. with regards to solar, we need the attitude that we want everything. it has to be reliable and cost-effective. if charlie had his way, we would go the path of california. what is the path of california? a 40% increase in electricity. the average person pays $208 a month. it would be $80 more. it is going to come out of your pocket. a 40% increase. when he was there, a 30% increase in utility costs. [applause]
>> let's get back to the truth. the increase in your utility bills happened over the last years. you know if your bills are going up under rick scott. mine is. yours probably is. your property insurance bills are going up. you may not know that he signed into law a law that says that the office of insurance regulation cannot regulate insurance. does that make sense to anybody? it does to the insurance companies. >> can i respond to that? that is not true. >> it is true. >> charlie's obamacare law has the federal government deciding all of the rates for the plans. state does the same thing. they have no power. hhs is deciding the rates. charlie signed legislation that costs. due to pass on
>> that was jeb bush. [applause] [no audio] >> you can go to the website and they will explain. >> the next question is for governor scott. >> florida is seeing a revolt over testing in schools. the federal government has played a role. four. lawmakers have added more tests and tied them to teacher pay. florida lawmakers had added more tests and tied them to teacher pay. >> we all know that measurement works. it works. people are concerned. the latest concern is about how much the federal government is involved. in a lot of areas, including
education. the federal government said they would not use the federal assessment standards. we worked on legislation and guided path. they said that they are not going to data mine our students. to floridaved standards. this next year, what i am going to do is go around and look at all the standards we have. some of the standards are at the state and district. they make sure everybody knows the standards and who is doing the standards. >> there is too much testing in schools today. [applause] >> there is. the reason is because rick scott signed a bill that i vetoed. the learning centers have become testing centers.
it is not right warfare two children. we need to have somebody -- it is not right or fair to children. we need to have somebody like me. we have had for education or commissioners in four years. we have to get the system back on track and we need somebody who understands it. i will do that. i will make sure it is funded properly. we have to get it right. >> let's look at the results. the fourth grade is number two in the world. we have seen the highest gains of any large state in the country. hispanic students have some of the highest graduation rates. 4%-5%erall rates are up since i was elected. we have seen some of the highest gains of any state or stop the national council says that -- of any state. the national council says that
florida has the highest scores in the country. silver got laid off in 2008. she called his office and he would not return the phone call. >> i have a governor -- question for governor crist. your administration and under governor scott's administration, scores of children have died under the supervision. >> you're talking to the challenges of the department of children and families. if a child dies, it is a tragedy and it is awful. this is an area where i decided to reach across the isle. i reached out to bob butterworth. one of the smartest things you can do is surround yourself with the best and the brightest. bob butterworth was great. readiunning for
attorney general, was great. i cannot understand that. maybe rick scott will talk about that in the rebuttal. you have to be clear. you have to be open. problems.nnot fix the the question i got from bob butterworth was, what do you want me to do? i said, call a press conference. >> it is true. .t is tragic after the bell shootings, i went and met with the survivors and my heart goes out to them. we have grandkids and we do not want anything to happen. increased pay, we for child protective investigators.
forlie had cut the funding the child protective investigators. then, we brought in a foundation to review what we were doing and they made recommendations. i went to the legislature and asked for more investigators. now, we have more and they are going to be able to spend more time to help stop this. here is the positive. the number of deaths has come down. it is not zero. every child that is a tragedy. >> thank you. [applause] >> now, we are going to have a lightning round with shorter questions. you and governor scott a different question. the first question i want to ask you is why you insisted on here when you knew
it would be a contentious issue. >> why not? is there anything wrong with being comfortable? i don't think there is. thank you. >> why the delay coming out? >> we had to find out if he was would you show up. he said he was going to come to the debate. >> governor scott, why do you keep your assets in a blind trust? >> so i don't have a conflict. put your assets in a blind trust so you do not have a conflict. the third-party runs the assets and that is what i have done. >> say something nice about governor scott. but happy to.
i commend him on how he has handled ebola. i commend him. it is better to be prepared than panic. let's say something nice about governor crist. >> that was pretty nice of him. >> on that note, the lightning round is over. we started late. that concludes question and answers. the candidates have 20 seconds for -- i am sorry -- one minute for closing arguments. governor crist will go first. that was determined by a coin toss. thank people watching at home. you have seen the differences between rick scott and myself.
i want to do everything i can to make sure the middle class has the opportunity to do better. i want to make sure that we invest in florida businesses. not bringing in big corporations. i want to protect the environment. i love water. i love being out on water. i want to make sure that, for future generations, they have the opportunity to enjoy the beauty of this great state. i'm asking you your vote. i would appreciate it. god bless you and god bless florida. [applause] >> governor scott. >> i think my wife are standing by me -- for standing by me. i want to thank my mom for divorcing an abusive husband. i think my daughters for --
thank my daughters for being a great members of the family. my mom called me a good boy. i ran a campaign of getting the state back to work. it is an honor being of her. it is a great honor. i would love to get your vote. i will do everything i can to make sure that this is the state where you can live your version of the american dream. [indiscernible] great to be here. scott.rnor thank you very much. governor crist. thank you very much. concludes our debate. governor scott, thank you. thank you.
thank you. ♪ >> decision 2014 has been brought to you by broward college. by leadership florida. by the florida press association. the florida association of insurance agents. the florida credit agents. and, the foundation. -- the pepper foundation. in 2014.r live debate in kansas, pat roberts is .eeking a term against greg
here are ads running in kansas. pat roberts. >> obamacare. 10 million unemployed. -- ck obama says >> make no mistake, the policies are on the ballot. >> the obama candidate is great. -- greg. vote for them is a obama agenda. -- roberts iss attacking me. i have tried both parties and i was disappointed. as the independent, i do not answer to either party. i answer to the people of kansas and will stand up for the best idea. i am greg.
they attack and try to label me. our problems only get worse. >> in case you have forgotten, i am bob dole. pat robertslk about he shares our values. he protects our national security and create thousands of new jobs. he is a workhorse in the senate. the stakes are high and the choice is clear. we need to keep pat roberts in the senate. >> when he first got to washington, there were illegal immigrants. the problem has gotten worse. he has come back to kansas to lie about greg orman. he will secure the border with a plan that is