tv Washington Journal CSPAN December 22, 2014 7:00am-8:31am EST
family's quest to change how the u.s. psst.s soldiers with then well take your calls. washington journal is next. host: good morning. 2014.monday december 22, today three-hour "washington journal" we talk about the keystone xl pipeline, how the military treats mental and reaction to the ambush in new york that killed two nypd officers. first we focus on the greg tension with north korea -- the tension in the wake of the hacking attack that the f.b.i. blamed on that country. north korean defense officials yesterday made new threats gainst the white house, mainland.and u.s.
we want your reaction on president obama should take and how serious the u.s. should take. are open.s host: you can catch up with us on all your favorite social on twitter, facebook or e-mail us. a very good monday morning to you. i want to start with a story osted overnight from foxnews.com. north korea issues new threats hacking he u.s. over claims as obama weighs action oting north korea issued its new threats against the united states yesterday and accused resident obama of recklessly spreading rumors that pyongyang is behind the cyber attack on
picks the long statement from the powerful national defense commission warned of the white house, pentagon and we will u.s. main of terrorism pool from a statement fox news noting was hours threat after president obama confirmed that he was considering returning north korea to the list of statent's sponsors of terrorism. president obama of course going shows yesterday to talk about this issue. cnn's state. union. here is a bit of it. [video clip] is a matter ofis setting a tone and being very lear we are not going to be intimidated by some cyber hackers. of this to -- l all of us to remember that and going on that basis forward. >> do you think this was an act of war by north korea? act don't think it was an of war. i think it was an act of cyber
-- al inch that was very andalism around we take it seriously. we will respond proceed phorgs signally. in a environment in his new world where so much is digitalized that both state and nonstate actors will have the lives into disrupt our all sorts of ways. e have to do a better job of guarding against that and treat it like we would treat the of crime and in our countries. hen other countries are sponsoring it we take it very seriously. but that is something i think we as long as hrough publ public-private sector is working together. interview on cnn making several head labels. "washington times." sony avoids war label for hack. "san jose mercury news" the lead tory obama weighs north korea
response and warm taking on the - "wall street journal" says obama faces pressure to act on pyongyang that going into some the possible responses that the president is considering. that the noting responses include measures that would intense fay financial -- intense fay financial pressure by targeting ies and d trading company such tough ation of measure as well as white house review of whether to redesignate as a state sponsor of terrorism and effort to intervene as to republicans are ramping up ressure to become sanctions legislation that -- back sanctions legislation that with target the kim regime. on the blican who went sunday shows yesterday feels senator john phmccain republica arizona. here is a bit from his interview also from cnn.
[video clip] >> i think again the president not understand that this is ofanifestation of a new form warfare. when you destroy economies, when are able to impose censorship on the world and specially the united states of america it is more than vandal in ism. it is new form of warfare and we need to react and react including reimposing sanctions lifted under the bush other tration including actions that will squeeze them most of omically but all we have to really work and her with the president the congress to come up with ounters and abilities to respond but more importantly to prevent. attack ve been cyber interests china that betrayed some of our most important
which has betrayed some f our most important military secrets. we identifyed a building in beijing run by the people's rib -- slation arm that liberation army and we have lost illions of dollars in industrial capability and secrets transferred to this. this is a new form of warfare. need to work and harness the minds in mark including those in silicon valley to help ways of countering this. host: the phone lines are open thoughts on both these latest threats from north the u.s. should respond, how seriously they threlt ke some of the threats. the phone lines are open. on the bottom of the screen. we will start with independents brian is calling in from
waldorf, maryland. good morning. caller: merry christmas. i would like to say this morning complicit and is blood on their hands for those officers.e it is your fault for feeding this frenzy. you have blood on your hands and address that. host: we will be talking about that in the last half hour of show, about the latest from the attacks on the police new york and what it means for some of the protest on while open phones in that segment of the 9:30.ington journal" at i want to start with the latest someout of north korea and of the threats from north korea. our phone lines are open to talk about that the first segment. job is in arlington, virginia
republicans. good morning. caller: yes. cool it a ey have to little bit. the film was irresponsible and we have complete similar if you made a film in other democratic condition countries that wouldn't have been well received and they would have been prosecuted. people are getting too loose with cyber stuff. e did it against iranians and they are trying to track down whatever we let loose there. north koreans or somebody tried it on sony. type of thing that can be dangerous and they have to be cool about it and people have to responsible in the entertainment industry. you how concerned are about your own cyber security and hacking attacks? is it something that you worry as you use forms of online
communication? caller: i use a computer but i stay away from too much stuff because i don't like the be tracked these days. i'm uncomfortable with it and i is -- until we can i ure privacy situations think it is just -- you are for your own ire security. anyway. security host: robert samuelsson in the "washington post" writes about security and what the ttack on sony means and the bigger picture. he says the hacking of sony horrorus to the ultimate the breakdown of vital electronic systems, power networks, ancial water supplies. big -- latest to be hacked including jpmorgan
u.s. home depot, target, postal service and national oceanic and atmospheric administration. if these major institutions computersrotect their why should we believe that power plants and other essential completely protect theirs? he ends his piece saying the sony picture debacle needs to us to our growing digital haven't. we want to get your thoughts you think g and how the u.s. should respond to the defense ean national commission warning of strikes against the white house, u.s. main d whole land in a statement yesterday interview resident's on cnn. from richmond, line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning to you, sir. say that we have much deeper problem than the cyberspace attack. it is based upon the idea of the
truth alone. until we get the truth of the back into full understanding we are going to in every ems direction. that is in all publications as concerned. i'm very sorry to say this but a is very disturbing to me person of my age, i don't quite which direction the entire system or the world is going. that is my comment. host: are you worried about the in this ing out specific case? did you not believe the f.b.i. hments from the that -- the statement from the we should h korea note yesterday trying to pin the pictures ect -- sony i'm sorry -- pin the creation of on theie "the interview" obama administration saying the obama administration was behind
theyaking of that movie as weigh to embarrass north korea "u.s.a. today" story. re you concerned about the truth in this investigation? caller: yes, i am. to me that every happens the that lame on mr. obama seem to be outlandish wrong. because until these news stories shouldn't be too many comments until they have found comes toruth before it a story. don't understand these so-called statements, it doesn't make sense. shouldn't be ran that way. i'm a citizen. hat would i know other than what is being said? gott-- it doesn't appear to be the right way to attack the
beginning. the host: that is james in richmond. david in mobile, alabama, the for independents. how seriously do you think the .s. should take the threats from a regime like the kim regime in north korea? caller: i agree with president obama we have to respond -- but also i degree with john mccain. t is a new type of warfare and with them threatening the white house, pentagon and other create -- we ill have to take she is seriously. they dn't rule out -- if are going to threaten the white house and pentagon we can't rule out military action. maybe.rikes i don't know. host: that is david in mobile, alabama. asked about being and some administration officials talking about a return to the state sponsor of terrorism list, some
fox news hat from the story north korea was on that 23r until, about removed it the list in 2008 during nuclear negotiations but adding north list could be he difficult to meet the criteria the state department must a country has repeatedly supported acts of nternational terrorism a definition that has referred to violent physical attacks rather hacking. the cyber security attacks in 24 case. boise, go to dave in daho on the line for republicans. caller: it is interesting to me that we are talking about doing something to protect here in the united states from the government's the point we in the past government has a track record of proposelping when libya appropriated the oil
interests of mobil and they have invited to help develop nergy sources but the u.s. government doesn't back them up in appropriation. mess, y got into this they should get themselves out of it. threatens theorea united states and our government nd military and other things like that i think that we should continue the practice of many that is letting corporations question terms out of their own fix. of cyberthis new world security you think it is on the corporation's themselves as well? caller: i absolutely do. f they are not smart enough to keep hackers out of their business, then they should go out of business. goes for target, it goes for all the others and home that have been hacked and consequently are they telling us -- no one has told us they can't keep hackers out of the if they
face that brave new world. from the north korean defense commission noting army and people of north korea are ready to stand in confrontation with the u.s. in spaces including cyber ar far to blow up those citadels it will be taken against the white house, main hrafrpblds. by surpassing the action declared by obama referring to president's interview yesterday. that headline from the "wall street journal" obama faces to act on pyongyang another republican who went on the sunday shows yesterday to about this was senator lindsey graham on "face the a bit of d here is what he had to say. [video clip] only the so hard north koreans they don't want to do this in the future. lifted by nctions president bush and put them back on the state sponsor of
terrorism list. put china on notice. it is not a movie. is a way of life. prao ommerce, to make a product and receive a products. to produce something that is edgy. that is what we are about. they attacked who we are. calls that andent that bothers mesm t is an act of terrorism balls the iranians are watching what he does. in syria ande line nothing happens he says he has contained putin. putin has dismembered the reason he the only is suffering is gas prices have again down. nothing we have done as put him a box and the iranians are been up obama and he has weak and decisive in one end of the planet to the other.
> you are not talking about taking military action against north korea, are you? firstu can't attack their amendment because they don't have one. i doubt if they have movie theatres. saying putting them where they are diminished beyond where today.e i'm talking about consulting with china and holding them accountable. china there is no north korea. reimposing sanctions. but what is the next attack coming? could if be on our power plants, financial services? viber the first act of warfare that -- cyber warfare gotten a lot of attention. w the president hadn't it is -- handles it is very important. host: we want to hear what you north korean cyber attack and latest threats from north korea. the numbers are on the screen.
>> we have about a half who are left. sun ridge, new york, on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i'm not defending north korea on they have done.line for republ. caller: good morning. i'm not defending north korea on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i'm not defending north korea on what they have done. remember when you take a movie done here in the united states and threaten country, r of their we are against waterboarding and against this and that. that supposedly triggered benghaziy was never there was a movie that incited people over there. movie th korea sees a come out about killing and leader.nating their
why would -- why did we do that begin with. off everything that happened. north korea has been hacking in our computers and cyberspace and whatever they do. this too something like an tying nice thphaoeuz -- to a tphaoeuz them. -- antagonize them. to beght we were supposed a better country that we don't do this to other countries. read something from rusty humphries's piece in a talk ington times radio host. he speaks about some of the points you bring up. not shrug our shoulders and say maybe they had it coming it looked like a stupid movie. said that misses the big picture if i were a citizen of north korea maybe i would be a film that showed the assassination of its leader. i know i would have been furious
there were a movie portraying the assassination of the american president bury that is excuse for unleashing a virus but a threat of violent if a movie were not stopped. what would you say, betty? well, they are just reacting. they are reacting just like we are reacting. well, we have to do something about this. ou are not going to do something militarily about it. you are going to put sanctions against them? they don't have anything that you can sanction them against. is just -- i have to tell you that i originally wanted to call the police officers because i'm related. said to myself you are not going to get through twice so as talk about korea and i thought about it over the weekend. things his country does and it is like the gentleman said in the paper. if they said this about
obama. ould we react toen a assassination of him? of course we would. hacking into everybody's computer, if you go on the computer and you put the computer that you houldn't, why is everything have to be on the computer? answer that. hy does everything have to be on the computer? host: betty in ridge, new york. about the police officers in the last half hour around open up the phones for on that attack in new york city on the new york police epartment officers that died over the weekend. talking about north korea n on rsation going opb twitter. writes the north korean threats are so bellicose that it s impossible to take them seriously. should the united states take them seriously? -- we sking our viewers
are asking four viewers the next 15 to 20 minutes. landdale, m california. line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. an attack by north korea is one cyber attacks made the last several years. peculiar hing that about this one instead of my personal information being is information from the corporations. has is why somebody heartburn. rather, it is a terrorist attack america everything scares us frplgt we are terrified about everything. it was a done movie not to have be attacked or want us to go o war with north korea over a stupid move movie.
host: this comes from our twitter page. the editorial board at the takes up the mes" topic saying the terrorists can terrorize america with they let them himself. the terrorists have won. it is important to keep in mind that america was not a combatant in this war though it took class rail damage. that out at the links on line as well. boston, to al in massachusetts. our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. i mean, i am embarrassed for this country. -- here is a nation sent young r ii we men to normandy and defeated the nazis. many on the left said we would have to appease with
soviets. we defeated the cold war with earth andst nation on a little over 200 years we have superpower.reatest yes, we have problems and here places hollywood. the bastion of the left gets attacked. remember, america, the left could not give this president peace prize fast enough. because he was going to make peace with everyone. notice how the president rupbgs to of to hawaii -- runs hawaii. doesn't say much about this because it doesn't fit into their theory on this world. again this president has are estimated that there people around this world that want to hurt this nation. i hope those on the left and at nn wake up to understand that before it is too late. let me close with this.
after september 11 that we would never forget. america, you have forgotten that we had an enemies. respected.een with thank you. host: allen from boston. aspects on north korea according to cnn slightly about than mississippi, 1 121,000 square kilometers. 24.8 million people. of north korea july billion.ut $40 you can go to cnn to learn more. we are talking about the threats they made in the wake of the and how ing incident the u.s. should responsibility. in the ident already past 24 hours and response last north koreans with more threats from their national defense ministry.
next is andy the line for republicans. i want to say we are not going to do anything. -- rain reason is because we the reason we allowed them to there without anything and china takes care of them. we are not willing to do anything to china and ran has he nukes an people saying that somehow it is our fault because a movie is made. we make movies all the time about our presidents getting assassinated. comedies. sci-fi. ams a-- happens all the time that. is what being a free society s. and it is our fault people that are bad for a movie doing so. the problem is north korea we the worst nation on earth who has concentration and they are the worst. maybe we should not be trading
supports th china who those countries. host: you bring up north korea's efforts. here is information on that from the huffington post. developed a nuclear weapon against the united states conduct the efficiently underground tests and 2006. believed to have november weaponized plutonium nuclear bombs ht according to one expert but that the t doubts they have expert. i don't believe north korea has to attack with nuclear weapons on missiles and won't for very many years the the huffington position piece on that. temple hills, xt maryland. democrats. caller: good morning. are you doing 12? host: i'm good. caller: i agree with president
senator agree with mccain. these individuals we have out there we have the capability to .ight back i believe that in the first all the i believe in amendments. to defend ur ability ourselves that we shall rely on. e should not throw accusationses at the president or congress. we should say this is america. we make movies all the time. a movie about -- am killing familiar vampires. host: are you talking about a back against north korea? caller: yes feel and there is no virus in the us.ian program was done by these people try to harm us and this resident obama said
caller: 9/11 seem to be the .asis for all these fears .e lost over 4000 lives a number of veterans are committing suicide. we might the with 10,000 lives affected for american citizens going into iraq. north korea, when target and home depot and them was hacked, resolveted to try to the issues. the technology is moving too fast. now with sony, lindsey graham and them talking about putting it on the list of terror. did lindsey graham read the language president bush has put howaw with congress about
-- what is a terrorist state, and how do you just put terrorists in north korea when the language, the laws, show that it is supposed to be physical, not this new internet violations. and then about sending alms -- ands over to north korea, how many lives do we lose for big corporations now that we have to protect them? you brought up the issue of military suicides. it is a topic we will be talking about an hour latter part of the show today. dreazen with us. he will be taking up that topic for one hour this morning and also taking your calls on that, if you want to listen in on that topic. some news to note, a prosecutor
is on tap for the number two spot at the justice department. this from the "washington post orkut the obama administration plans to nominate the u.s. attorney from georgia to become the second-highest rating official in the justice department. a longtime prosecutor, sally its, and u.s. attorney for the northern district of georgia, from 2010 is expected to be announced as the pick for deputy attorney general, the official that runs the justice department operations day-to-day. be having hearings for the attorney general nominee in the second or third week of january. eric holder has said he will remain as attorney general nominee is confirmed. fromer piece of news, this the marketplace section today in the "wall street journal." one day, decent or 22, today, 34
million packages are expected to be delivered by ups -- today, decent or 22. it is a big test after last years of embarrassing and costly holiday debacle in which millions of holiday packages did not arrive in time for christmas. about $500has spent million on systems that rapidly identify zip codes and reroute packages in the event of bad weather. 34 million packages expected to be delivered by ups today. a few minutes left. we talking about north korea. to see headline -- obama if north korea should return to the terror list. we're talking about how you think the u.s. should respond to both the hacking incidents and some of the latest threats from north korea last night. chris in new hampshire, our line for independents. caller: yes, honestly, they
should not have even made the -- [indiscernible] to begin with. is taking from a different perspective. on the other hand though, like, seriously? , like, they made these kind of threats. we should not back down. what does backing down consist of? what would we do to not back down? >> like, figure it out. host: jerry in missouri, our line for republicans. good morning. caller: how are you? host: good. caller: excuse my speech.
the thing about the movie -- first, it is a comedy. was in that made it, it poor taste the person he chose to make the movie about, but he did it. you cannot take that back. as far as our nation goes, we are a strong nation. with everything in the country, we look weak. unfortunately, it it seems we have a weak administration. what needs to happen is that administration needs to stand up, like we have done in the past, and just put it out there. it does not matter if it is north korea or whoever, we will strike back swiftly like in the past. we have the capability to do it. you are talking about the white house, the pentagon, the
mainland. does not mean it will happen. it could be empty threats to the point is, the threats have been made. this is the united states. these are american lives. we have a lot of american lives abroad. i served personally in iraq. this is not something -- if we it iswn to people now, just going to continue. the russians offered for him to come over to visit or whatever. we need to stand up. this nation needs to stand up and say "no." this is our country. does that mean? military action or some sort of counter-cyber attack, more sanctions, putting north korea on the state sponsor of terrorism list?
what would constitute not backing down? caller: the state sponsored terrorist list. action, if military think that should -- if anything were to happen at all, i think military action should be on the table. host: time for one or two more calls. michael, south carolina, our line for democrats. caller: thanks for having me. .his is insanity it sells like weapons of mass destruction in iraq all over again to where is the evidence? the fbi lends north korea did it for her north korea says they did not do it. other groups say they did it. so i want more evidence to it i want to be 100% sure that north korea did this. until i see the evidence, i am not buying it. thanks. host: the fbi, on friday,
announcing that north korea was officially responsible for that that coming from the fbi here in washington, d.c. president obama saying after that announcement was made by the fbi that we cannot have a society in which some dictators opposing censorship here in the united states because somebody can intimidate us out of the releasing of a satirical movie. imagine what they start doing if they see a documentary or a news report they do not like. that is not who we are. that is not what america is about. that was president obama friday at his end of the year news conference. evelyn in west virginia, our line for independents. caller: yes, i have a question, actually. my question/comment is -- why should anyone political criticize sony for not releasing after benghazi
happened, if you remember, everybody was criticizing this documentary because it might antagonize our enemies? host: our last call in the first segment of the "washington journal" this morning. next, we will speak to elana schor of politico. she will talk about an issue that republicans about would be one of the first priorities of the 114th congress. that is the keystone xl pipe line. later, yochi dreazen talks about his new book "the invisible front" about families that posttraumatic stress disorder p or week, the brookings institution ran a on military health care systems, and dr. woodson is the assistant director of defense and discusses the challenges for caring for the nation's military personnel today.
here is a bit from that event. [video clip] >> nowadays, we have a professional military force with if they become ill or injured, we contain them as long as possible to demonstrate their ability to serve. that is a commitment we make to both of them and they expect of us. so the whole issue of the dynamics of what we have to field and be ready for, rehabilitation, has changed. it is not automatic that they will go to the veterans administration and receive that care. finally, we have to make this commitment for decades. so the issue is that we know that the wars will have a tail relevant to the medical system. an amputee, to walk on a prosthetic device, it takes 20% to 60% more energy, depending on whether it is a below the knee, above the knee, single amputee, or bilateral amputee. if we do not commit to their
health over decades and they gain weight, they smoke, you will see the quality and quantity of their life diminished. accrue more diabetes and more cardiovascular disease if we do not protect them for decades. it is a commitment to them for decades. this is a copat located system. that's a complicated system. the slide on the right is an advertisement from the american association of orthopedic surgeons. it is not a military advertisement, but it suggest that what we do in the military system has value for the american medical system. and you can watch the entire program by going to our website at c-span.org. now we turn to the subject of the keystone xl pipeline. politico energy reporter elana schor is back to talk about that topic. it is a project and political
debate that congress is not going to wait let long to get back into in the 114th congress. guest: it will be number one on the list in the senate. mitch mcconnell made that announcement last week before republicans left town. it will go through committees. run theise is, i will senate much different from harry reid. i will bring this up to the energy committed circuit be -- committee so it can be committed. so it could be the keystone and any number of things. host: why do this first? what is the politics here? this is a huge issue in which they can take a fight with president obama and they have the majority of americans backing keystone in every poll almost. there are other parts of the policy that are less publicly popular. host: you bring up mitch
mcconnell. he made some of those statements in his end of the year press conference. here is a bit from that. [video clip] >> we will be starting next year with a job-creating bill that enjoys significant bipartisan support. first item up in the new senate will be the keystone xl pipeline , that bill. it will be open for amendment. on bothhat senators sides will offer energy-related amendments, but there will be no efforts to try to micromanage the amendment process. we will move forward and hopefully be able to pass a very important job-creating bill early in the session. about an opend
amendment process. explain why he would do that. does that help or hinder the passage of the legislation that he is looking to move? guest: great question. it depends on how many democratic amendments he will allow. harry reid, when he was in charge, would do what senate watches called fill the tree, parliamentary jargon for preventing amendments from being considered. most amendments, little on controversial amendments, are things republicans cared about. mcconnell wants to change that. he hoped that senators want to discuss energy issues. there could be controversy. but there is also the interesting test of where the senate stands on other issues. host: we are showing a map of the potential routes of e keystone xl pipeline. if you want to talk with elana schor of politico, phone lines are open. republ
interested tod be hear from viewers in canada. we have talked about congress. let's shift to the white house. what is the status of the white house and what is the president saying? thet: all eyes are now on nebraska supreme court which may seem fairly minor, but the white house is indicated it will keep its review of keystone on pause until that court rules on a challenge through the pipeline's route through nebraska. that could happen anytime between january 2 and the end of 2015. it is very open-ended. that is a good thing for the president. the president said on stephen colbert, one of his last shows, that it is exaggerated on both
sides. he has pooh-poohed the effective gas prices. sounds like this guy is going to say no, but it is a matter of when. own: the president in his words as recently as his end of the are press conference last week. here is president obama talking about the keystone xl pipeline and its potential impacts. [video clip] >> very, very little impact. nominal impact on u.s. gas prices, with the average american consumer cares about. weight this desk the way this gets sold his let's get this oil and it will come here, and the implication is that will lower gas prices in
the united states. it is not. there is a global oil market. for the canadian oil companies and the canadian oil industry, but it is not going to be a huge benefit to u.s. consumers. the president talking about the keystone xl pipeline at his end of the year news conference last week. a question from twitter. if obama gives in on the keystone xl pipeline, what can he get in return? up an that brings interesting question. in washington, it is fun to talk about what kind of treaty we might get or what kind of deal we might cut it six months ago, i might have told that viewer he could get something. he could get republicans to stand down. since then, keystone has done so much more acrimonious, and the
president, as you just heard, has really said it loud -- this does not seem like a dealmaking thing for them anymore. it could change next year. host: we're talking with elana schor of politico, talking about keystone xl pipeline and u.s. petroleum imports. in 2013, the u.s. imported about 9.9 million barrels a day, imported from about 80 different countries. 51% of crude oil that was processed in the united states at u.s. refineries was imported. net imports account for about 33% of petroleum consumed in the united states, the lowest annual average since 1985. a, thefacts coming from ei energy information administration. you can check them out online. brian is in michigan, our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. the keystone pipeline, in and of
itself, is a danger to our groundwater because it travels over at least two different aquifers. if the canadians want this so darn bad, why don't they put the refineries in their country? the only way people will make money on this are the canadian oil producers and the carlyle group in the united states which has the rights to the refinement. almost all the fuel is going offshore. it does not do anything to the american domestic fuel market. prices will go up. they need to be more efficient. it is shoved out onto the world market. part of why it is going down right now -- host: do you want to pick up on some of the impacts he is talking about and president obama talking about in his press conference. guest: there are two interesting aspects of this debate. number one, why don't canadians build their own pipeline? the answer is they want to, but
they are not building their own refineries to process it. that has to do with any number of factors could we also have not built a new refinery in america in many years. it is very hard to duke and there is a lot of environmental permits and union negotiations. ity have to get the same oil would carry to either coast, their west coast, their east coast. it is not that they're not trying to process it and ship it through canada, but that is also hard because canada has an active environmental movement. hopefully that resolves the caller's question. leaders of thehe environment movement in the united states trying to block the keystone xl pipeline? is it local groups or is it more nationally-led? really 18hink it is effort. unlike a climate change bill that might be tackled inside the beltway environmental guys. there are a lot of local groups, ranchers groups, and native american groups involved.
it unifies and find the militants -- unifies environmentalists. the other aspect of the question that is interesting is, you know, who will benefit from this? u.s. refiners will also benefit from this. the truth is, we do not know how much will be exported abroad. at least some of it, but the way the president talks, it might be more than we know. there is no guarantee because it is supply and demand in the global marketplace. u.s. refiners will benefit just as much as canadian oil companies. host: elana schor is with politico and covers the keystone xl pipeline. at politico but environment and energy news before that. she is taking your calls and common spirit we have a call on our line for republicans. caller: good morning. how are you doing? you remember me. i am for that xl pipeline.
i am for drilling and everything. we're losing our coal. up threeprices going times the amount it is now thanks to that dictator we got that we call of obama. idiots. a bunch of biggest farce ever put on the american people in this country is climate change. china is laughing at us. they want us to get rid of our energy. host: one of the nearly seven in10 voters who support building keystone xl, according to a new poll out on this. those numbers have not much changed in recent years. of voters0 7% -- 70% were in favor 2013. , reported 2012 poll on by fox news. that was in the field earlier this month. elana schor, if you want to pick
on anything he talked about. guest: it is a real cultural issue for the supporters of keys don't it some of us may not know much about the project or have a middle of the you, because to them it is really a stand-in for climate change, whether you are an environmentalist or not, it is bigger than then just pipeline. i would like to know, how many jobs will pipeline actually create, and how much involved are the koch brothers? start with a jobs first. it is something that confuses a lot of people. you hear president obama use a couple thousand. that is about 2000 construction jobs that would come directly from working on the pipeline from the two years or so it
takes to build keystone. after the pipeline starts moving oil, those would go away. about 50 of them stay full-time. you hear supporters use numbers as high as 42,000 jobs. those are the total indirect jobs, which is what economists worker that a hotel processes these people, line cooks, those jobs will also go it away after the construction period. to do oil unions, they do not mind that it is temporary. about 50 permanent operating jobs. brothers?he koch are the biggest porno leaseholder -- four and leaseholder. whether or not they will benefit from the pipeline, it's
impossible to say based on public records. kochs are a privately held company and are secretive, but we also know that they own a refinery in the midwest 10 days benefiting from this oil without keystone. they may benefit from building it, but they are also benefiting from the current situation. they are savvy businessman after all. host: the top sources of net u.s. petroleum imports, canada at number one. again, lots of facts and figures org.lable at the eia. richard in gross city, good morning. caller: a couple weeks ago, i was watching michelle on cnbc
and she would do a cost analysis of oil production around the world and she says the production in the canadian oil sands is over $110 a barrel. the cheapest place for united states to get oil out of the ground is $40. if the current price is $50 and the canadiens cost $100 a barrel, then we would lose $50 per barrel. they would go bankrupt and you would have a pipeline to nowhere. what is your analysis of the cost factor? andet the environmental other spurious things. this is about business. you should get michele on your show and have her explain what she explained on cnbc a couple weeks ago. host: the cost factor. guest: i cover the same issues and i'm happy to explain that. the numbers she was using his new production costs.
costs a lot of money to start new production. the numbers going on once the facilities are open. they say once we have facilities open, we can break even with oil as low as $50. they have to say that. they are dependent on shareholders who want them to succeed. we are somewhere in the middle. oil being as cheap as it is is squeezing these guys. issue is actually related to climate change in the end, which is the most interesting part of this. cheap enough and it is that cheap now, not building keystone could prevent the oil sands from growing further and could therefore be beneficial to climate change. so we are this interesting gray area where it might be hard to start new projects, but that is almost more important from the
environmental perspective, even though he told us not to think about that. have you many times been up to the oil fields in canada over the years? guest: just wants. it is very remote, but i was able to tour two different kinds of facilities. if you go on google, you can see bleak, martin looking strip mine. that is one kind. steam heated out of the ground, so it looks very nondescript. elanawe are speaking with schor. winston-salem, north carolina. good morning. good morning. i wanted to comment on the pipeline. that theen said
pipeline gets a lot of its resources from fracking, which has been noted, mrs. with our water resources. onple have been seen documentaries lighting their water supplies. i was wondering if it is worth it to go to these extents. i have not heard too much about solar. it is very clean, abundant. i have not heard too much difference about that. also, i want to comment on the guy that said we cannot worry about the environmental impact, let's worry about the business impact. if you do not have an environment, you have no business. i saw a bumper sticker, no farmers, no food. the food is part of the environment.
if people cannot eat, we do not have markets. it's important to note, fracking will not reduce the majority of the oil that runs through keystone. fracking is a technique used for natural gas and oil in u.s. shale which will be about 12% of what goes through keystone. the oil sands is produced a different way. that said, fracking and keystone -- share the common issue of water quality. this runs through the biggest aquifer in america. a lot of farmers and environmentalists fear what happens if there is a leak. it could pollute local water quality. we know what the state department and other expert reviewers have said. they say there is the likelihood that this pipeline will leak on some minor scale. the effect on the overall water quality will be minor.
the caller also mentioned solar. this oil would be unified into gasoline for our cars. predominantly used for electricity, so we are looking at two different pockets of energy in our lives. democrats have been pushing for solar for some time. you will certainly see that next successbeit with less with the republicans. host: have there been reroutes of the proposed pipeline because of the environmental issues you brought up? guest: the court case that i brought up earlier stems from a law that was passed in 2012 which allowed the republican governor to snap his fingers and change the route in the effort to avoid impact. the first route would have gone through land which i visited as well.
the water table was about a foot away from the soil, so they were afraid about the water. plan has been moved, there is still some concern, but some people feel better. host: next phone call in frederick. good morning. i am a construction person. i have not heard too much about -- i think it will be difficult to protect the xl pipeline from vandalism. as we know, there are all sorts of crazy people in the world. to damage the pipeline by blowing it up or setting it on fire, it is something they should consider. i don't think you can protect the pipeline that long without costing a lot of money. schor, to that end,
aren't there already thousands and thousands of miles of pipeline across the country? enough to go to the moon and back. these are mainly belowground. if you wanted to do damage, it would be pretty difficult. host: a question on twitter. how many jobs will be lost because of the keystone xl pipeline? that's an interesting question that has not been studied. the question assumes the fact and rail are experiencing more shipment. it could be that the canadians would keep using the same truck and train transport, so it's tough to say. host: mike is in hays, kansas. on the republican line. caller: this is oil patch out
here. dropped so far where they are starting to shut down ricks -- rigs. you are spot on, it is a debate between a larger picture of climate change. anytime you get these guys that say there is no climate change, you can tell them it is a proven, scientific fact. keystone is not much different from any other oil infrastructure. and look at current usage compare it to what is happening now. host: do you want to pick up on his comments? frankly, the reason the issue has become controversial is because you do not hear people talking about the way that he did.
, we tende discuss it to polarize it. that said, there are moderate democrats who share the caller's views exactly. some of the lost the elections this year but they say we need to think about climate change and also build a pipeline. robert is in new mexico, on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning ann merry christmas. when they started with his keystone stuff in canada, the canadians put up a big fight. map, it is at the shorter route to the coast than going down to the gulf of mexico. the canadians put up such a big fight, they do not want to go
down to that area to the coast which is why they are trying to do it down here. jobs, that seems like a big farce. it will not be a lot of jobs. it will not do anything for the american people. and it be a big risk seems like the negatives outweigh the positives. know whatan people they are doing, they don't want to going through their land. we need infrastructure. everyone knows we need more infrastructure. i think this is a big farce. the american people are being channeled. american environmentalists fighting a fight that canadian environmentalists have already won? won yeto one has
because the pipeline is still in the mix, but it is pretty well stalled here. the caller did not mention the tribal communities rights in canada. there are indigenous tribes there that have a serious constitutional case for stopping the pipeline because it would run through the ground that they own the rights to. it's important to note, president obama has already approved and the second leg of keystone is already in operation. this one is shorter than the canadian proposal. the original keystone ran from alberta to texas. the president had approved part of that. what is the point of having the second leg if you do not have the oil coming from the second leg -- first leg of the pipeline? alreadyhere are pipelines that carry the oil from the midwest. a lot of refineries are getting very cheap, heavy oil because
they are conduits that go to the midwest. before he acted, not many went from the midwest to the gulf. john is on our line for independents. merry christmas, i think she just answered my question. i live in the shadow of the bp refinery along lake michigan. they just got done putting $4 billion into that refinery to process the heavy oil. i have not heard an answer yet why the oil is being diverted to the gulf coast to be sold on the open market, rather than going at lakep refinery michigan, for the people of america. god bless america. i will take my answer off the line. right, i partially answer the question.
a lot of that oil was and is going to that refinery, which is that moneyt all expanding. also refineries in the gulf want more of this. refineries are a bit like ships. it takes years to change the way that refineries operate. a lot of them have been changing to process the lighter oil coming out of america but they really want the heavy oil and they have not been getting enough of it. host: and why do they want the heavy oil compared to the light oil? gasoline and diesel are the two main products when you are fine. overseas, that is what is needed. diesel helps heavy industry in asia and europe. america does not use as much of it. the heavy oil helps the gasoline-diesel mix become or profitable for refineries. is here to schor
take your questions about the keystone xl pipeline, one of the first issues in the upcoming congress. elmo is in denton, texas. caller: good morning. i in 82 years old, grew up most of my life in cushing, oklahoma, so that gives you the perspective of where i'm coming from. i have also been in the oil business, have visited the mines in canada, back when it was not .rofitable to produce them i think some people do not realize that we have a lot of oil and gas in north dakota that can also utilize the pipeline. as far as the lower end of the pipeline, i don't see why president obama needed to approve it because it does not
cross a boundary. that was my understanding of why they were able to go ahead and continue building. the cushing pipeline crosses the united states. a lot of petroleum comes into cushing and is transported to the gulf coast. the united states will by the oil is it is cheaper to buy the oil there than it is to import it. any oil that will come into there will reduce the amount of oil that comes in by ship from the middle east and so forth. right now i am paying $1.91 a gallon at the pump. reason, i lived in a refinery all my life in cushing, oklahoma, and the tech farms only have about three days of storage. so if more oil is coming in then , then theorage for
market has to be increased, and the way it is increased is by reducing prices. let elana going to schor jump in and then we will come back to you. guest: he is correct that obama did not need to approve the ,ipeline running from oklahoma where he spends most of his time in texas. it was a big political more asp. the original keystone had gotten rejected and the white house stepped in and said that it could bureaucrat a clear fast-track that southern stretch. he is correct about that. the other thing the caller was talking about was oil and gas coming through the pipeline from north dakota. this is just an oil pipeline, number one. isber two, all we know ,00,000 barrels maximum per day
about 12% of its capacity, is reversed -- reserved for u.s. oil. dakota wants more space, we can give it to them, but they are not required to. they are assured of a maximum of 100,000 out of 830,000. remindcanadians want to us of is that it helps us, too, but a small share. host: did you have a follow-up question? no, except i don't think canada was to sell to china. defense budget is almost negligible, which is why their economy is so good. their defense is taken care of by the united states. canada and the united states are such serious runs, although we may hear threats, i don't think there is a chance that they will
sell their petroleum to china. before, canadaed was the top source of net u.s. petroleum imports in 2013, accounting for 43%. the u.s. importing about 9 million barrels a day, imported from 80 different countries, but canada leading that. joe is next on our line for democrats in pennsylvania. know why theyt don't run the pipeline up to vancouver and let them put them on ships, which will keep the jobs going for a long time to come. usemember they were telling the alaskan pipeline would benefit us, but i remember in at the end of his term it was four dollars a gallon for gas. what happened to the oil in
alaska? host: elana schor. guest: entrance alaska pipeline is running at historically low capacities. if you ask your senators, they will say a lot of that land is federal and has been cut up to oil production. that is a separate discussion from keystone but he makes a bigger am point, which wants to the president's response. these infrastructure projects get sold. a case wherein the interplay of supply and demand in 30 years makes the pipeline similar to alaska. he oil sands are expensive and hard to produce. we just cannot produce the future. -- predict the future. from a lot of concerns citizens in different states. how did nebraska become the focal point of a lot of the debate over the pipeline? is from theof it
aquifer that stretches across the states. waterka depends on that for their agricultural industry. the other thing is nebraska politics. the state legislature has no political party and there is a very strong populist tradition that has come into play. a lot of locals dubbed adtran canada took liberties, threatened eminent domain, seized land sooner than they could have, and generally did not act like a good neighbor and that raised a lot of the common sentiment that has just become more intense. , --: a story on omaha.com we are talking about the land along the route that would be used for the pipeline. eminent domainis issue that appeals to a lot of the conservatives opposed to the project. going back to that supreme court
case, a law would give keystone a new route but would also give transcanada two years from its passage to use eminent domain powers to take land, even from landlord to -- who do not want to make a deal. only 14 of your years. where it gets interesting, eminent domain rights expire at the end of january but this law is being challenged in the supreme court right now. you can see transcanada tried to steal land through these landowners to eminent domain. milwaukie, wisconsin is next. chris on the line for independents. caller: i am against the keystone pipeline because of the aquifers. i don't know why they could not shifted farther east where it wouldn't go through it. the people depend on the water for more than just irrigation or crops. it is unsure how they will clean
up and offer for once it is contaminated. i watched a program in florida about the aquifers and the pollution there and how bad it swamnderground when they under, through the aquifer. we need water to live, no doubt about it. .e do not need oil to live it would be uncomfortable with no oil, but i really care more about the water. three years to clean up the kalamazoo river, and that is a river on top of the ground. if they can clean up and aquifer, when xml still has pollution from alaska from the oil spill up there. jobs, i dot all the
not believe it. we have callers like chris who are concerned about how hard a cleanup would be, and then there is a tweet from people ike jim on twitter who say have never seen oil and water mix. water is heavier than oil and always falls to the bottom. about we are talking basically water saturated rock. oil getting into it is not as simple as that. when people talk about the migration of an oil plume in and aquifer, that is different from the river than the caller was talking about. these are complex scientific questions so it is tough to do discuss in a digestible way, but the bottom line is, the pipeline may leak and the best analysis we have seen says that if oil --mes travel far underground, it would not travel
far. there are a lot of confused people out there because of the complexity. what happened in kalamazoo is a very rare issue. this water was very turbulent so the oil sank to the ground. the heavier molecules ended up being stripped and fell. ,hen michigan officials saw usually oil flows, but because it was turbulent, it fell on the making it hard and expensive to clean up. every oil because different circumstances, so it's easy to be concerned. host: a few minutes left with elana schor from politico. david is up next in west liberty, kentucky. on the line for republicans. caller: good morning, first time calling -- caller. i have been trying to call since president clinton was in.
i agree with the pipeline. i think epa has too much power. have heard them paying up to $200,000 a year on some of the welding jobs, which i would like to get in on now. i am a little old now, but i'd like to see it come in. l. area is stee there are some places that are $1.99 a gallon. i know they talk about losing a lot of jobs and layoffs but it does not make sense to me. that is about all i have to say. host: did you want to pick up anything from his call? guest key debateaises the with gas prices. we could see a few cents increase as more supply comes into the market.
analysts say the opposite, that is one drive up the price of gasoline because it will eliminate the glut of oil in the midwest currently keeping it so cheap for the refiners. not beings back to and to predict the future. it is important to know that this canadian oil is traded at a different benchmark than the typical barrel of oil that we typically hear in the news. it could be there is no effect on gas prices despite this talk. the line fromn deadwood, south dakota. caller: good morning. i live in the black hills in south dakota here. we have some experience dealing with canadian companies. i have a gold mine about three miles from my house that was being operated by canadian rorators, and they ran into
rainwater hit it, turned into asset, it went into our creeks, they shut down the gold mines. when that shutdown, the canadians folded up and went home. i just don't trust the canadians. that was the last comment on transcanada and how they have acted over the course of getting the xl pipeline approved. aret: certainly, there landowners who are upset with transcanada, but i want to be clear that they will be subject to all of the laws that american companies are thinking that happens. that said, there is one level of liability