tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN March 5, 2015 9:00pm-11:01pm EST
years as we target the decade of the 20 30's, with the budget that we are going to have, how do we do it? how do we develop the technologies, the techniques the systems, the life-support systems, the propulsion systems that will get us to a foreign body such as mars with the crew and return them safely? so we may want to go back to the moon as we develop this, but as i said earlier, show me the money. doctor, i want to ask you to comment on the plans to capture an asteroid, bring it back into a stable lunar orbit, and send a crew up there to land on it.
that, as part of the steps as we prepare all of those things i just mentioned, eventually to go to mars. >> thank you. going to space is hard. i think we need to remember that there has only been one country that have lower orbit and that is us. we did that a long time ago. the u.s. is the only country that has been able to figure it out. it is not so easy. it is even harder to go beyond low earth orbit. if we decide to take an inch incremental approach, i think there is a lot to be learned.
we can test this big rock that can take us places, test the spacecraft, space is a very hazardous place. there is a lot of radiation and it gets worse as you get further away from the planet. radiation on hubble was higher than on space stations. going to the moon is even worse. we need to understand how we can protect our people and we are taking those steps. how are we going to keep them healthy? what are the changes that happen to the body? how will people be able to withstand the journey and land the spacecraft and work and come home? this is tough stuff. we may not be able to do that in one big swing. it may be too much to do it in one swing. i think we need to start taking those first steps. we need a successful test flight. these are tough things to do. i don't know if more budget
would make it quicker -- i don't know. maybe it would give you better chances of getting it but i don't know if that makes it more efficient. if the asteroid mission is the right thing to do, i think there is a lot we can learn from it. i think we can work out keeping people healthy understanding how to work for launch system. it is a destination -- you are not going to land and have to blast off again like you were on the moon or mars. it is a place you can go to and we can learn a lot from it. is it necessary? i don't know, it might be. i think right now the important thing is to be consistent with that to pull the rug out from where we are. there were a couple programs in my career. we worked on different spacecrafts, i had dinner with
two of my friends last night former astronauts, we talked about all the stuff that was canceled while we were astronauts, all the stuff we trained on. you make a big huge direction change and it is in the best. >> you were there in the astronaut office when the constellation program was canceled. it was way behind and it was overbudget. that is what you were talking about. what you sacrificed -- if you make a major change in the spaceflight program. >> that was a big one, but there were other ones to. -- too. they started doing the wiring on one of the space shuttles. they spent a lot of time designing that upgrade and then that got cut.
they thought it would cast almost as much -- there were other options for spacecrafts that we were developing. they test out in the desert and drop them out of airplanes. a lot of cockpit design work was done -- these projects were cut. i think there is a penalty from pulling everything back. if we go to an asteroid or the moon or mars, i think it is important to keep the momentum going of getting the spaceship ready, getting the rocket ready, keeping options open until you are really sure which one you want to go to. maybe we can go to mars in one swoop. maybe we can't and the asteroid mission is a great way to test our systems out. we want to be successful when we go to mars -- that is a huge leap and a really long journey. this man went a long distance from our planet and it is a heck of a lot bigger. -- lot further.
>> can i add a thought? it has to do with budget. it is always going to be expensive for what we are talking about trying to do. i mentioned for 40 years the nasa budget has been less than 1% of the federal budget. for the last 15 years it has been driving down to 0.4%. congress decides to put more money, otherwise this is just talk. the budget has got to go up for nasa. that is another reason i feel very strongly that nasa has to be operating more efficiently and not doing some of the things which would be marginal. you have to focus on what has to be done. siv's budget is way too low to do the things we talked about doing here this afternoon.
absolutely. i would like to point out that i have a study being done at purdue -- i have assembled 25 other academic institutions that deal with exploration. academic institutions are supposed to be unbiased, supposed to teach the general background. good can come up with a number of questions yes-no-maybe, tell me shortly how do we get the public behind what it is we are trying to do? they are going to know what i am trying to do, and i am going to give them my assumptions. what is the strategy to get the public behind us? what kind of strategy do we need to find something in 2040? step up increase and fun things -- do we have a ramp up? not just cost of living, but a ramp up because expenditures are
going to be greater. another question -- do we have a relationship with china? it is very significant if we are going to deal with leadership. i don't want to get into a lot of that, but i think if we don't -- we shouldn't do things differently at the moon. we still should build things they are so we can build somewhere else, but we don't have to land there. china needs the things we can build, we have to exert leadership i working with them. next july is the 40th anniversary of apollo. 75 was pretty contentious in the cold war much worse than our relations with china. why did we refuse them to come to our space station? we should be doing that sort of thing together, building on,
sharing what it is the are doing. they have a lot of things to do at the moon and we can help them. because it helps us. if i asked them about the asteroid -- you can cancel it or you can do something smart and between. if you understand what that smart is in between by sending a robot there, then send a crew to it and then you have an asteroid scientist, the combined mission is better than a robot or better than a crew mission. don't these people talk to themselves in washington? why do i have to come up and say -- if you combine the mission it is a whole lot better. maybe that is not essential. i happen to think it is, where
you can fly or ryan -- fly orion. we are going to take orion up there and there will be a system that lets us stay for longer. we will be rotating commercial cruise up and down. commercials are going to go to the vicinity of the moon -- we will do these things and we are going to build them but we don't have to put all the money in building those habitats. the forerunners are going to want them and we are going to want them there. the foreigners have to land. we are going to develop a very sophisticated landing system and we are going to be landing so many people on mars that we can take them along on the first landing. take us along as visitors on your landing. let's not go broke by doing
things but less astutely learn to do things that do make sense. if you ask industry, or government, you were going to get a biased answer. but if you ask academia -- i am looking forward to the polls on significant questions coming back. >> thank you very much. i want to ask one additional question. each of the three of you are learned scientists and national heroes. if i have understood your testimony here today correctly each of you has discussed as a major objective, a grand goal for nasa, going to mars. i would ask each of you to take a moment to address the american people, and in your judgment, explained the benefits to
america and to the world of going to mars. what will be required to accomplish that objective? >> well, i would start by saying the technology that is required to get us to mars, such things as radiation or finding new velocities that will create the kind of spin off. we have benefited for 40 years from solving the problems that we had to go to the moon. some of those were started before, but some of it was totally unexpected. he didn't know what was going to come up but you solve the problem, and now it is almost like a cancer in all areas of our industry. they are benefiting. the most important thing to be done is you have to be willing to pay the money.
i am not optimistic about us being able to put the kind of funds out there that we ought to because we ought to because the are busy spending money in the government for all kinds of things for which there is no return. for all kinds of things which do not really inspire people. i happen to believe it is a good use of money. >> rarely does a time, long in the advancement of humankind on this planet earth that we gain the potential of freely demonstrating to ourselves and to the rest of the people. the challenges. -- the people the full list of the challenges. we can send people to mars and an efficient way. we can do it by stepping up, by using some things but not hitting on down with a lot of investments involved in landing humans, building the rockets
storing them -- we don't need to do that anymore. we can observe how other people take care of them, but where we want to do that is at mars. we need to invest the things to get to mars. if we invest in a stage to go along with the people that are going there, it is going to cost more money. going there with the asset stage interferes with just the lander. by building that stage in the return capability, it is taking longer to do that. the cost per person on the surface of mars is less if they stay there. if we start bringing people back -- the biggest thing to me is all of this comes along on
earth, with humidity being able to advance and to do all these wondrous things, it is going to cost aliens and billions of dollars. -- billions and billions of dollars. we are going to train some humans to do that and send them there. i have gone and come back from a place. let me ask you -- what do you think you were going to do with those people that go there and bring them back to continue to pay off the investment of their being the first pioneers, the building up of a glowing settlement? they can do far more by keeping mars occupied, helping the new people that come in. you bring them back and they can visit different places -- but if you broadcast from ommars, the world will be listening in, you can give that the stories of what they have been doing.
there is no doubt in my mind that the value that we have invested in people from whatever the country is, we put them there on mars, that is where they need to stay. they need to know and understand that this is their opportunity to serve humanity. >> thank you. benefits for the american people -- what we could get. i think eventually you were going to have to learn how to do it for our own survival. learning what else is out there is great and would help our understanding of where we are in the universe, but to have another place where we can live, as another place we can survive would be a good thing for us to have. matsrs might be that place.
if we decide to go there it is giving us another option. can you imagine what would bre needed? when we developed the apollo program and the shuttle program -- all the new technology and the spinoffs, it was tremendous. we are going to make a giant leap and go all the way to mars -- can you imagine what would come out of that? it would also have some international flavor. i think the united states would be the leaders of that, and i think we would do it with some friends. i think it would be a great thing for international cooperation, providing that benefit. i get back to the inspiration -- not just because it is a nice thing to do, but that is where our future is. we will depend on these people to build our economy and keep our country strong. they may not all go into become
astronauts. hopefully more people will have an option, keeping them interested. but i do think exploration particularly going to mars, would inspire them to stay in school and get their education and maybe they will find stuff they like even better than space. maybe it will be better for us for certain students to go into medicine, studying other things. but i think it will keep their interest. and i think that is an intangible benefit that we would get. i really see it as an investment in our future, to inspire young kids and to help our country and economy for many years to come. >> thank you very much. i want to thank each of the three of you for coming and joining us.
we will start -- >> thank you it is always good to see you. members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to provide boeing's perspective on human space exploration goals and commercial space competitiveness. i want to applaud you both are opening comments in that spirit of cooperation. it is heartwarming and absolutely essential to our path forward. america's economic growth and competitiveness depend on our capacity to innovate, to reach beyond today's possibility
stretch farther and faster than our competitors. our future depends on developing the next generation of technologies, but more important our next generation minds. just as seafaring ships explored and returned home shores, bringing on for seen discoveries, so too will spacefaring nations reap the benefit of our exploration. robots help us scratch the surface but humans are ultimately needed to really explore. the success we have achieved as may the united states the most attractive global partner for nations seeking to advance their own space aspirations. this plays a significant role in the united states diplomacy efforts to increase u.s. influence in global affairs and strengthening alliances. the international space station has been orbiting earth for more than 16 years. astronauts have been continuously living up toward
the iss for 14 years. we have been living valuable lessons about living and working in space and preparation. the iss is a model for cooperation, currently counting 15 nations among the partnership. because of the iss, space is an area where international cooperation remains constant and serves as a bridge for other diplomatic discussions. as a leader and a major supporter, the u.s. is in a position to supply a vision for space global expiration. with the iss, we have demonstrated an ability to build long-term crude space habitats. the iss crews are testing technology required for deep space and looking to understand the effect of extended space travel on the human body. what we have found from the development and operation is that large space programs do best when three conditions are met -- first, industry
involvement with wide ranging expertise. second long-term, stable government investment. third, international cooperation. with nasa's capability we can apply the lessons learned to new endeavors and deep space. we must rally a shared commitment and heavy lift space launch system rockets where we risk losing important investments in the irreplaceable trust. nasa has a foundation for sending humans farther into the solar system than ever before through the nasa authorization act of 2012. we must continue down that path in support of the building blocks that are so important to future success. first, we have invested years of brainpower and billions of dollars in the international space station for preparing for the next leap. second, we have a commercial space program that ensures u.s.
cargo. it combines proven design in spaceflight technology with modern innovation for reliable and sustainable crew and cargo transportation system. it leaves room in nasa's budget to develop the capabilities for exploration beyond low earth orbit. thirdly, sls provides unprecedented payload capabilities not previously achievable. last december's flawless launch returned a great deal of data, which is a huge step towards mars stop finally the world space agencies agree that mars is our ultimate destination. nasa has the programs in place to move toward mars. commercial crew crisp rotation systems can transport crew and cargo, and orion for super heavy
lift. thank you again for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. it is an honor to follow the previous panel. thank you for this opportunity to discuss the important topic of human spaceflight. space touches every aspect of modern life. i would like to focus on human space exploration as that future is most in doubt. this is unfortunate as human space activities are among the most interdisciplinary of enterprises, requiring gills from every field. their successful accomplishment requires skill only in the most complex and demanding programs, the ability and willingness of the nation conveys much about that society.
international space cooperation space commerce, and space security could be used to reinforce each other in ways that would advance u.s. interests and the sustainability and security of all space activity. at present, these activities are conducted under individual merits that are not part of an integrated national strategy. international space cooperation is a means of advancing national interest. those interests can be for security, commerce science or any combination thereof. human space exploration efforts are driven by geopolitical efforts would and does provide a historic model and rationale for the united states. the next steps will require international partners, therefore it makes sense to ask what our partners would like to do and what they are capable of doing. the answer is the moon with mars and other destinations in the distance.
the u.s. commitment now to lead a multinational program to explore the moon would be a symbolic and practical first step as well as a means of creating a broader international framework for space cooperation. at the same time, the geopolitical benefits with greater u.s. engagement could support more ambitious exploration efforts than science alone might justify. on the commercial side, providing cargo delivery to the lunar surface would be an attractive market. the volume and duration of that market would be enormously more attractive than the iss alone could ever be. the moon is not just a physical destination, but also a means of answering questions, creating capabilities, training organizations, and forging new relationships. through authorization and appropriation bills the congress should provide clear direction for nasa on an exploration mission, s sls and
other systems begin operation. the congress should direct an effort to develop mission concepts for an international return to the moon with private sector partners in anticipation of a new administration. the united states is crucial to rely on space system and the future sustainability of governance is a key strategic interest. if we are to have an effective american space strategy, we need to align our policies, programs, and budgets with enduring national interest. this means looking beyond individual missions and seeking to determine what future humanity might have beyond the earth and what values will be part of that future. i would like those values to include those same values today -- democracy, human rights, rule of law, free market.
the rules on the front tier made by the people who show up. if those values are to be on a human future than we need to be there to ensure them. i close with a quote from all of wendell holmes. "i find the greatest thing in the world is not so much where we stand as in what direction we are moving. we must sail sometimes with the wind and sometimes against it, but we must sail and not draft nor lie anger. we need a competent to choose what course offers the greatest advantage to our nation and for that i command this hearing. >> thank you. in an afternoon where we are listening to learned scientist i appreciate throwing a supreme court justice in their. [laughter] >> thank you. i want to thank you for holding this hearing and for
>> csf is an organization working to make sure commercial spaceflight is a reality. nasa is a partner in america's great national enterprise, space. since the dawn of the space program, cooperation between the government and the private sector -- has been critical. this operation encourages to achieve great things. the relationship has evolved over time. the relationship has given way to more innovative approaches to ensure a wide variety of capabilities and services. my testimony provides detailed examples of these partnerships. i would like to highlight a few of these areas where this alliance has moved articles forward. and areas we could help with in the future.
the crs programs have led to cargo access to the international space station increasing utilization for research and development. the variation of this model has been applied in the crew program, which is developing reliable access to and from low earth orbit. private companies are working on building ways to explore destinations beyond low earth orbit, of which nasa should leverage support. further expansion of the commercial spaceflight industry will create a self reinforcing ecosystem. it will enhance our leadership in space. the past six months i have made it my priority to visit all of our member companies. from midland to have a -- twoo mo
jave this is what i have seen. orbital providers are increasing access to space for a white variety of customers. this is a positive trend for the u.s. after decades of decline, we are recapturing market share. in order to support growth, states have been competitively investing in commercial spaceports to ensure state economies have a role in this 21st century business. within our grasp are limitless resources of great commercial
value on earth. these resources can be used to press onward deep into the cosmos. companies are working to unlock these resources. as you can see, it is not a surprise we are experiencing private sector investment. to continued this progress, we need thoughtful policies and regulatory certainty. congress must set policies that encourage growth and innovation and maintain the u.s. space sectors competitive advantage. as you prepare to reauthorize the commercial space launch act, you can provide critical updates. extending the learning. that helps the industry developed rapidly solidifying launch identification, and addressing the question of how
to handle astronauts and vehicles. these and other issues are just in my testimony. codifying these policies increase our global competitiveness, promotes industry growth, and strengthens our space-based and keeps the u.s. at the forefront of space technology. the commercial space sector will continue to be a valuable partner in america's ever more ambitious goals in space. i have children who ask me when they can go to space. i am confident that the answer is there is soon. thank you for your time. >> thank you. i would ever -- defer to senator nelson. my congratulations to your commercial spaceflight sector.
indeed with the competition proceeding for the commercial crew, we are seeing a lot of innovation coming out. it is going to be exciting. it will come into focus for the american public over the course of the next couple years. i want to ask you how important do you think it is to extend the iss beyond its existing termination date -- how important is that? >> it is an important step. it is a gem of a gnat -- national laboratory. the research taking place is incomparable. i was talking to a colleague
about the scientific and medical research that is being conducted up there, the practical applications on earth are incalculable. another great aspect of the iss is the partnership it has with the commercial sector. the experiments we are doing -- i was inspired by a trip to the west coast and a company called made in space. they were able to build and test 3-d printers on a suborbital level and they are on iss right now. astronauts on the iss needed a ratchet, and they were able to from california, send up the image from this ratchet and they were able to print it on the space station.
fantastic. that is the kind of innovation that we are seeing through these partnerships. i am very inspired by that. >> how could we encourage our international partners to help us continue the iss beyond 2020? >> the u.s. has already taken the first steps which is to lead the effort to go to 2024 and to work with the other partners to make that possible. it was important for the united states to move first. we are indispensable nation in that regard. we can help our partners show how to improve utilization on the station. at my university, we had a
workshop for a company called male racks -- nailracks. there has been a creation of an ecosystem around the reality of a government facility, and other commercial people have been able to build around it. an educational establishment went from signing a contract to deploying a satellite in less than nine months. that is an amazing turnaround time. it was made possible by the private sectors innovation working with government facilities. the company was able to work quickly to be manifest all of
those payloads and was able to find rideshare opportunities for other satellites. the innovation in the private sector is aiding and supporting the conduct of research aboard the station, which i believe, in turn, will help our partners. that continuation is not guaranteed. our partners are under great pressure in europe, canada japan, and we know the volatility in russia. we need to be looking at what will come beyond the space station in order to ensure people that they will continue today. >> we are counting on you to be one of those means of transportation for crew to get us up there. you have a proven workhorse. that launches a lot of cargo into orbit.
are you positive about this commercial section maturing? >> i am. boeing is going through its 100 year anniversary. during that reflection, you can see the aviation industry growth from just the beginning industry to an incredible industry. i think commercial space is at that same pivot point now. the effort being done to have nasa serve as the foundational customer for that is similar to the way the government participated in the early days of aviation. as we develop vehicles to meet those needs, the capability will grow.
>> thank you. i would like to shift to asking each of you, what do you see right now as the greatest impediment to the continued development and expansion of our commercial crew and cargo capacity? >> i would say that having the market develop is important. commercial industries follow the market. continuing -- extending iss -- which, by itself, is a great thing independently, it can provide a starting point going forward. it is important that we maintain the industry in such a way that it is safe and reliable. and don't let public opinion you
road because we have accidents that could have been avoided. we need to keep it as a robust industry. things like the sea sla legislation which helped with the cost of insurance for launches. we need to develop working relationships with regulatory agencies like the faa. it is a good partnership. those are things to stimulate the growth of the commercial sector. >> two things. market demand and a predictable demand for investment. that is generally given by government to the extent that we can see nongovernment demand come from activities, things beyond the space station, then it will be more sustainable.
that begs the question, what comes after the space station? although we are talking about accenting to 2020 five, and aerospace terms, that is right around the corner. one of the things i worry about is, if you are not planning today, what you are doing is planning to go to business. we need to have a very thoughtful discussion very soon as to what not only the extension but post-iss extension what does that look like? without that, they will not be that investment environment, nor will be international partner environment. >> you mentioned in your testimony some suggested reforms in reauthorization of the space launch act.
>> regulatory uncertainty is a major barrier that launch industry could face. with and edification, it is critical for our global competitiveness. china, france, japan all more than the u.s.. extending the learning. -- extending the learning period. if we want to foster this economy that we have, we have to extend that to continue to work together as partners. with the faa, nothing is more paramount to the commercial companies that safety. if you do not have a safe product, you will have a commercial product. the regulatory uncertainty is critical, but also the funding.
knowing the commercial crew. i find it completely unacceptable that we have to depend on the russians to launch u.s. astronauts to the iss. any sort of disruption and the commercial crew program i think be a tremendous setback. i don't much it pays the nasa administrator to have to extend those flights to 2018. for contingency purposes. continuing with the budgetary measures through the commercial crew program, i think that is when the bus was become of forward. especially with the commercial space launch act. >> he mentioned concerns about safety. obviously, there is an element of risk. the safest option would be never to go into space. what is the right way for regulation to balance the safety concerns with the desire to
continue expanding out capability and exploring new frontiers? >> you have to test and learn. we found that out the hard way this past october. as americans, we will continue to push the envelope. we have mentioned our westward expansion goals -- the manifest destiny of the united states. safety will always be an issue. as a predecessor once told me the thing you have to number is that 10,000 things can go wrong. that is something you always have to keep in mind. it is the redundancy of safety, testing, evaluating, learning from the testing that you are doing, the data you collect to move forward. i think the commercial industry is doing that. >> what is the shortest timeframe we can reasonably know
one could be dependent on the russian soyez and the rd180? what would be required to accelerate that timeframe? >> i will address that from the perspective of launching the commercial crew. we are on a path to be able to launch crew in 2017. that path is paste by the internal works we are doing with suppliers. going to the certification process that will allow us to certify that vehicle based on the lessons we have learned on the shuttle and station so that it is certified and ready to fight. our program is not being paste i dollars -- paced by dollars.
we need to apply funding that we proposed in our contract. relative to the rd180 i would say this. we have an incredibly dependable launch vehicle. it has had 53 successful launches. that is the reason why the selected it. it would seem that over time, it would make sense to work to transition away from dependence on russians. i would hope we don't do that in an abrupt way that would cause us to impact our national security. and also, our launch industry. i am hopeful that that is a thoughtful process and that we work through that in a way that addresses the geopolitical concerns but also the technical concerns.
>> how would you define a thoughtful process? there is always the risk, geopolitically, that if things escalate with vladimir putin and he decides to use access to space as a weapon, where he to cut off access to the soyez or rd180, that would impose hardships on the united states. how would you propose we deal with that potential threat? >> we have an inventory of existing engines. keeping that pipeline open is good. i do not have insight into where it is going, but we are working with another company for a replacement engine for the rd1 80. working through that in a way that doesn't declare -- using
the assets that we have. >> do have thoughts on these questions? >> i think it depends on where you think the immediate risks are. the answer is that we have the inventory that we have. beyond that, you have an expensive option but a doable option, which is manifesting on the delta. looking beyond that, the answer ultimately of course is to have a united states source. the proposals that have been put forward for building a replacement engine -- what the kerosene, lots of methane. the numbers i have heard have been three or four years. perhaps i could be accelerated. i think there are probably parts that you cannot accelerate. if you think that the crises with russia is not going to go
away, it is going to be with us for some time, the answer is to begin development of that engine. and to do so now. if it turns of everything works out great or we have other options come up, that is fine. if we do not have that option, then we will find our negotiating leverage. >> i would add that one of our companies -- they are working on developing a new engine to help alleviate the rd180 problem. i have been to that facility in seattle. it is impressive what they are doing out there. as well as what spacex is doing. i think they would like to be online and off of russian
dependence as soon as possible. i think that date is no sooner than two dozen 17. >> thank you very much. i appreciate the testimony you have given. this was i think a very productive hearing. i would note, for each of you, the question of regulatory uncertainty was a question all three of you raise. that is a significant concern of mine. in moving forward with reauthorization of the commercial launch act regulatory reform is going to be a component that we are going to look at. i would welcome me to the witnesses your specific ideas on reforms that would provide greater certainty, to accelerate the development of either commercial crew or commercial launch or commercial cargo, and expand the commercial capacity we have. i will also note that the hearing record will remain open
for two weeks. during that time, senators are asked to submit questions for the record. upon receipt, the witnesses are requested to submit their written answers of the committee as it is possible. with that, i want to thank each of you for being here. i want to thank our witnesses on the first panel, and hearing is included. thank you. [no audio]
[no audio] >> here are some of our featured programs this weekend. saturday night at 10:00, former marine david morris on the history of ptsd that affects 27 million americans, including himself. sunday night, scott taylor argues that the obama administration hurts our national security. and the commemoration of bloody sunday, when advocates march from selma to montgomery alabama.
on saturday, we are live from selma with phone calls followed by a live ceremony with president obama. we continue with service from brown chapel stork church. find our complete schedule at c-span.org. and let us know you think about the programs you are watching. e-mail us with comments at c-span.org. join the c-span conversation. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> that, a look at photographs of space shuttle launches, as well as austin -- astronaut neil armstrong's funeral. a journalist discusses his work with the panel in new york city.
[applause] >> good afternoon. bill ingalls has been a professional photographer for over 27 years and has heard as the senior contract photographer for nasa since 1989. he has traveled the world. assignments have taken him from the kennedy space center to the inside of an active volcano in alaska, oval office, inside of dc8. his photographs have appeared in "national geographic," "newsweek," "time," "the washington post," "fortune," "people," "the los angeles times." bill is recognized amongst his peers for capturing some of our country's historic moments including the first launch of a u.s. citizen on a russian rocket, jfk junior's live visit
to the white house, and the burial at sea of neil armstrong. he is only the second photographer ever to receive the prestigious national space club press award. the award was first given to edward r. morrow. it is my pleasure to introduce him to you this afternoon. ladies and gentlemen, mr. bill ingalls. [applause] >> no break? good lord. thank you. i want to thank stacy and the explorers club. this is an honor for me to be here today. i just don't feel like i am worthy of it, but happy to show slides. i am not comfortable being on camera. i apologize to those on c-span.
i am real sorry. the rest of you here -- i was not sure how to put this together. i was unsure who the audience would be, and what to focus on pardon the pun. it is a portfolio of sorts. way too many pictures. feel free to get up and leave, tweet, and check your e-mail. that's me. i'm in charge. i don't do this often, as you can tell. this is my predecessor. he was the first senior photographer for nasa. you will note the pall mall cigarettes in the right hand the leica camera, the sunglasses on, whiskey drinking, cussing, hell of a photographer. i am doing everything i can to live up to his standards. he was with the crew from the beginning of the apollo project. he went through all their
training together. he did all of their around the world victory marches. i was fortunate enough to get to know him, spend a few years with him before he passed on. this is some of his work. he set the bar pretty high. this is the apollo 11 crew. i came onto nasa as an intern in television. i was a writer and a producer and spent the summer in nasa headquarters and i also did freelance photography. i went on to teach television at the university of pittsburgh. i called nasa every day and begged for a job. i think they got so sick of me calling that they gave me an office pit -- we will hear less from him. he said that this position that bill had had had gone away and there were other agency photographers who had started to pick up at the various centers. i could either revitalize that
or work and be a photo researcher in their office. both are great jobs. i definitely wanted to try to revitalize this position as best i could. i still have his original cameras in my office. they all have stories. we don't have all day. i will keep marching on. this is at the kennedy space center, which is also a wildlife refuge. there are quite a bit of wildlife there. i also spent a lot of time in washington, where there is wildlife as well. this is kennedy space center and some of my shuttle-related work that i've done there. this is on the transporter with the space shuttle on its last final roll to the launchpad. these are workers and their families invited to the along the entire route to say goodbye to the shuttle program.
again, i take my job -- i am silly. i have a lot of fun. i work hard. i take it very seriously. i know i have been given a privileged position to be on this, to be the eyes and ears for others that cannot be there. i take it very seriously. this is on that crawler transporter. this is charlie bolden shaking hands with workers as were riding the transporter out to the pad. of course, the shuttle lifts up at night. i had to get a lightning shot in there, too. you will see a common theme throughout my images. if there is a puddle, i would use it. here is the first one. i will sit there. i have a lot of pictures. i am happy to answer questions about them at the end.
this is writing out on the helicopter with a sniper. the security is very serious. both here and in russia. this is in the lobby of the launch control center before going up to the firing room for one of the launches. the mural that they have there. this is inside the firing room. i used to joke that i never saw a single launch. i always watched people watching, logically, that is nasa administrator charlie bolden. this is one shot with myself in the frame. i used a remote. his office juts into the firing room. these are remote cameras set up around the launchpad. you don't want to be this close during the launch. the closest that you can get is three miles during a shuttle
launch. three quarters of a mile for soyuz launch. landing of sts 135. charlie bolden on the left and the center director on the right. that is the main landing gear on the tarmac of the shuttle landing facility for sts 135. chris ferguson, feeling if there is heat coming off the front of the shuttle after we landed. a unique view underneath the shuttle looking towards the front nose.
this is the final roll from the landing facility to the opf. then i had a responsibility to work with others and help document all the shuttles going to their final homes. this is discovery at dulles airport in virginia. puddle number two. puddle number three. this is where the enterprise was being pulled out and discovery it was being rolled and as they pass each other. enterprise being loaded up to
come to new york. this is that dulles airport as well. look for it. this is coming into jfk. some days or weeks later, out on a boat in the hudson. the enterprise is being brought up to the intrepid. that is something you see every day. back down to florida. this is for endeavor's departure off to los angeles. i enjoy doing all of these tremendously. it is bittersweet, obviously the end of the shuttle program. as a photographer, this is one
of the really rewarding experiences that i have had, where we are able to see the public and the orbiters and what we do so close together in one place. going to the streets of los angeles with endeavor was incredible. it's too bad we cannot do it every day. this is from the goodyear blimp. as endeavor went by the randy's donuts. i just like saying that i was in the goodyear, that is fun. throughout the entire route, just this outpouring of love and excitement. people holding their breath. they had to avoid buildings and take out a few trees along the way. they try their best not to do that. time warner let people get up in their boxes and photograph it as it went by. i was told that in inglewood
when we went through there, they had zero crime that day. zero. that is los angeles. and, a lot of people ask me if when i first came to nasa i was a big fan of space, nasa, and so forth. i have be honest and say i was a fan of nasa. i was not obsessed with it. it was not my goal. photography was my first love. i was extremely lucky to have such great subject matter. the two go together so well.
maybe i've had the kool-aid now for 25 years, but if there's anything about what i have learned over the years from being at nasa and making pictures for nasa is summed up in this picture and many of the pictures like it. regardless of what we discover in space, regardless of where we end up, the act of getting there, discovery, the whole process -- to see kids get excited about it and start seeing them light up and think about math and science is worth every single penny. sometimes i get bored. this is the administrator checking out an atlas five rocket. this is juno spacecraft on its way to jupiter. again, remotes. these are a bunch of unmanned missions, good, this is out of the vandenberg air force base with the beautiful pacific
behind it. the lawyer on the right followed me everywhere and watched everything i shot. [laughter] robert bigelow, another entrepreneur with inflatable habitats. i think of this is the jiffy pop that we are going to fly into space. these are his inflatable space stations. this is an orbital down at nasa. we had a rollout that happened yesterday. these are not those. these are various other rollouts taking place. this is the newest launchpad for me to be working on. it is a lot of fun when you go
set up remotes, to be there to discover new images. it starts to get repetitive after a while. i have done how many soyuz launches. you want to try to tell the story in a unique and challenging way. that can be difficult when it's repetitive. it is very exciting to have different opportunities. this is out on a boat in the ocean getting some shots around sunrise. a remote set up. i was so happy they put that sign there.
i started dipping my toe into infrared. this is false color infrared remote camera shot. i'm still working on that a little bit and will make it better next time. i went to retrieve this remote and was happy. i was fortunate enough to go over to japan for the launch of the gpm spacecraft. i had never been to japan before. i always wanted to go. i had an incredible experience there. i really enjoyed it. not unlike our visitor center. it's interesting to see what similar and different. just driving around you see space related themes everywhere.
h2a rocket. it is a beautiful rocket. it was gorgeous. there were surfers out there earlier. i was upset that i missed that shot. it's the shop gets away. you circle in one eye and set a goal, and once the goal is reached, you circle in the other eye. this was used for the building of the rocket and the goal was the successful launch and putting it into orbit. i guess these are getting cropped a little bit. it is what it is, i guess. i was surprised. i did not realize -- certainly in russia, there are a lot of traditions. i did not realize that in japan they have traditions as well leading up to launch. they visited three different shines before before lunch. they leave two bottles of sake. they do some prayers. we moved on to the next one.
my interpreter who was with me was -- my friend olga from moscow is here. she's going to kill me for calling her out. my interpreter, who is very dry and straight about everything as me if i knew much about the religion. she said, there's over 8 million deities. we are visiting three shines in leading prayers. she said, you know what's interesting is that they all like sake. [laughter] one of the challenges i have is that i'm not allowed to photograph a lot of things that will show our systems and design. that is a challenge i am always overcoming. you will show people in the workplace doing a lot of work. i shoot minimal depth of field cutting people together see you don't see monitors. i don't set them up, but i'm always looking for this when i'm
shooting to make sure i'm not -- i'm respecting those bounds. the rocket launch in japan. we had to wear hardhats. we are three miles away. [laughter] i have a love affair with a moon. this was the full moon -- super moon at the lincoln memorial. >> guys, the photo before that is one of the photographs we will auction off. >> ok. this is the last super moon as well. i do a lot of hearings in washington. i actually enjoy doing those. i have a front row seat between whoever is testifying in congress and typically every emotion is covered in 30 minutes. i start with smiles and they go downhill from there.
it is great. i notice i have let the smiles out of this one. this is our current administrator, charlie bolden. he is a wonderful man. four-time astronaut. this guy, john glenn, by far one of the best people i have ever met in my career, just amazing. >> [indiscernible] >> what i always still people is that he will walk in a room, could be me, custodial staff president united states. as for as he is concerned, we are all the same. if just a sweetheart, really nice guy. and of course, neil armstrong. an amazing human being.
sorry, i am dragging on here. i will try to speed up. this is that jpl. this is the day we are about to land on mars. this is the moment in the control room where we got the signal back that we have landed successfully. i did one of these pictures during the mars pathfinder landing. there was a gentleman that had been at nasa for a decade and he was part of the mars viking program. he was rejoicing. i saw him with a very stern look on his face. i said, what's the matter? aren't you happy? is there a problem? did we not get a good signal? he said, back in my day men were not hugging like this. [laughter]
she made a visit to nasa a few years ago. this is the president's science advisor being interviewed by a student reporter. we do quiet a bit. this is the president making a call to the international space station. this is elon musk, puddle number four. kennedy space center. and trying to keep secret service out of your frame is not always easy. and in the oval office as well. this is the last time i photographed these gentlemen with the president in the oval office before neil passed away. i had the incredible honor, the family permitted me to be the
only photographer at the funeral for neil. that was a personal family funeral. i went on to cover the washington, d.c. funeral as well. i went on a navy ship out into the atlantic for his aerial at sea. this is his granddaughter preparing her remarks. his wife and granddaughter. i had no idea this was happening. these things are planned, but these things just don't happen. this was the second full moon, the night of his funeral in cincinnati. back in washington at the national cathedral. and this is in jacksonville, florida, waiting for the remains to come off the plane.
and, out at sea. the navy put down their cameras and let me be the only photographer to shoot this. i'm not sure why, but -- my first trip to moscow was in 1991, when we first started discussions together to partner up. i think i have made about 70 trips to moscow, and 56 earned so to kazakhstan. my first launch is a 1995 at of kazahkstan. the rocket is in three cases when we arrive. the capsule area.
they just start to slap that thing together. it is pretty amazing to watch, actually. it takes about 12 hours for this to go on. there was one time when it was almost all the way together, my escort was saying it's time to go. i said i wanted to see it all together. i was making pictures. he was asking me to go. i said the light is not right. he said, have you seen this movie, "kill bill." [laughter] we're done. move on. this is the business in. rollout like clockwork, 7:00 a.m. that is the same launchpad that eureka launched off of.
after you have done is forever the hardware is cool, but it's the people. that's definitely what i'm looking forward to doing more and more of, people that i love. the priest comes down to bless the rocket. he comes over and blesses the media as well. i think he has a special target on me specifically. there is the crew in the background in quarantine waiting for a no go or go for launch. they put on the flight suits behind the glass. this is one of the things that i have been wanting to get for a long time was the crew getting their haircuts, just to show -- they are normal human beings
that do things that we all need to do. finally, after years of trying to get into do this, they got me into do it. i was asking my colleagues and they -- what should i expect. they said, it depends. i said, what does it depend upon? they said, it depends on how short the skirt is today. [laughter] the crew is in the back room saying goodbye. they are signing the door. lots of traditions. the priest ready to bless the crew as they come out.
pressure suit check out -- up and saying goodbye to the family. steve swanson. this is that the base of the pad. this is a 14 millimeter lens which exaggerates things. it is a small rocket. one of the things i have yet to capture his when the crew gets up to the stairs, they path them on the back and then there's a guy takes his knee and jams it into their butt, saying get out of here. this is the other launchpad. this is the other time that i -- this of the only time i photographed the other launchpad in kazahkstan. this is from pad one. this is a two minute exposure in
the middle of daylight. staged in kazakhstan -- we circled the area where the capsule is supposed to land. once we see that we are at a point, we open up the door of the helicopter. i am hanging out. another guy lays down next to me. two guys lay down on top of his who are shooting. two guys sit on the four of us. there's two guys leaning on the shoulders. there are eight guys doing this thing. there are only six of us these days. we open the door.
the first time this happened max, a good friend of mine was on top of me. you can't hear anything. the wind is blowing. it is cold. your craning your neck to look around to see if you can find why you're shooting. you're waiting to see if we could see it. max says, bill. i love you. i said, dude, not the time. not the time. [laughter] this is staging. this is the flotilla, 12 helicopters. this is the runway, which is no longer in use, but we use it for our landings. some of the locals come and pick us up and take us into town for a few hours of rest before the next morning. we eat at the restaurant. you stay at the hotel.
i found some breakfast, which is always good. when the doctor eats it, i know it's ok. he is the flight surgeon. here we are hanging out at the helicopter and seeing it come down with three people who have been in six months. it is pretty incredible. these pilots are good. this is shot with a 300 millimeter lens. we are right on it. you can see the ground crew chasing after it is well in atvs and jeeps. a lot of farmers fields out in that neck of woods. this is a shop that i had been
trying to get for ages, to see the retro jets firing. this is shot at 11 frames per second. that is how quick it happens. i have had a lot of folks and come to me after they get out of the capsule and ask me if they really fired. this is during early morning landing, with all the support vehicles with their headlights on. crew of three inside. this ran on the front page of the new york times. a different landing. this is nice to see the scenery out there. one thing that is a good question to ask katie and others is something i haven't heard talked about yet. i remember ken talking about this.
when they open the hatch, the was no one there. it took a while for the support crew to get there. he talks about the first thing was the smell of dirt and earth and inhaling that and loving that smell after being in space. there is katie. this is a print that is available as well today. all of these images are in the public domain. all of these images can be downloaded from the nasa website to be used. the crew is being brought out of the capsule. they are carried over to a chair. a little thumbs up. smelling the smells.
some of our russian friends. this ran on the cover of aviation week a couple of weeks ago. then there is a lot of work it takes a place on the capsule to get it out of there. ron gearan in the helicopter. mike blown away by gravity. how cool is this. a lot of the crew would tell you that some of them felt up to walking and wanted to do it but others don't. almost always, the support personnel insist on helping them just to be safe. the welcoming party at the airport. they are given these dolls after they land.
that is it. thank you for your patience. [applause] we ran long, didn't we? >> we have lots of time actually. before you guys open to questions, i want to ask a couple. bill, have you ever had a picture that you took that nasa said you can use deco -- can't use? >> i have to admit i am pretty fortunate. i also know what nasa will not like. i have had my share of mistakes over the years. one of them is a fine story. i had made a picture in the
firing room of everyone in their headsets. we launched a day or two later. we came back for the we attempt at the launch. one of the gentlemen said they got a very strange call in the firing room. a radio station in los angeles just called live on the air. they zoomed in on my picture and got the number. luckily they all thought it was hilarious. i was really panicked. they didn't care. >> being around all of these guys and taking all of these pictures of these rockets taking off, are you thinking about buying a ticket to go into space? you must make a lot of money as a photographer, right? [laughter] >> that punchline was pretty good.
i would love to go up. i think it would be great. i am always thinking about what i would do up there that might be different. a lot has been done. don pettit did a lot of time lapse and high iso imagery that i would have had on my list to do. i think the only thing left is maybe a series of nudes. [laughter] >> not nudes of you. i have to say, i once interviewed bill enders who took the famous earthrise photo. i like to ask people what they were thinking when they did that great thing. bill said he was thinking he was off mission. it's supposed to be taking photos of the dark side of the moon as we go around. i'm supposed to be taking photos of the potential lunar landing
sites for apollo 11. here i am taking pictures of the earth. i am wasting film. what i thought was that i'm going to get in a lot of trouble for taking these pictures but the earth was so beautiful that he couldn't help it. bill got the right one. is it ever that you are just in the right place at the right time? >> absolutely. that is half the game. trying to plan ahead and think about where i need to be and hope it happens. >> give us an example. >> you caught me off guard. it is not so much nasa related. it was when jfk visited the white house for the last time. tom hanks was having his premier from earth to the moon and that's why nasa was related.
jfk junior was there with his wife. i saw him approach the famous portrait of his father. iran ran over and made a couple of frames of that. i couldn't pass on it. i just happened to be hanging out at the right place at the right time. the white house photographer came and joined me and i backed off. i knew it didn't have a lot to do with what i was doing there. when he passed away, the white house but together a photo album that they presented to the kennedy family. they use my photo in that series. it is one of those happenstance moments. >> i'm going to open it up now for questions. i sure there are a lot. let's start in the front row. >> it is very clear that there
is a strong connection between you and your work and there is a lot of love there. it is clear that there is a lot of love you put into your work. the images speak for themselves. being a young person, i am curious to know, there is obviously some tenacity that is tied with that love with your work. is that something you have always had? if you could just talk about one or two key moments in your 20's when you began to move toward nasa and become more of an asset to that organization. >> sure. i can answer your question directly. like i said, photography has always been my passion. more than nasa was originally. of course, now, nasa is in my blood, too. i feel very fortunate that that hasn't gone away. anytime i go out on a photo assignments, especially places i
have been over and over, i love that challenge to try to find something new, try to find a new picture. and yet, tell the story in an understandable way. you could just get crazy and take pictures that don't make sense. you have to tell the story as well. for me, that passion has never gone away. that is not entirely true. i have had my moments where i have gone home from work and i have not wanted to pick up a camera. the first time that happened to me, it really scared me. i thought, now what? am i losing it for this? then it comes back. i think that is the one thing for my experience now, i don't freak out when that happens. i just stick with it. the passion always comes back. i love looking at the work of others. i should mention that my colleagues, joel is down a nasa
right now, it helps to inspire me to see fresh eyes. being around others that love what i do as well is part of it. did that answer your question? >> this fellow here. >> what kind of camera lens, do you hand holds, use tripods? do you still shoot film? >> yes to all of the above. i shoot nikon stuff day and out but i have remote cameras or cannons -- canons. we put nikon lenses on canons. i sometimes still use film just for personal satisfaction. i didn't go digital until i had to. now i am in full hog.
my original tricks -- on my original tricks, i used to have a giant storage bin that had all of my chemicals, scanner, hairdryer, fish tank heater clips, the whole thing. smocks, and i remember the hotel in moscow once, the house keeper didn't knock and cayman -- and came in. >> if they saw you in your smocking new york they would freak out. >> the only window in the hotel that i went to originally that faced the satellite was down at the other end of the hallway. these are back in the day, these huge satellite dishes. i set my alarm for 2:00 in the
morning, we got, go assemble the satellite dish, put it in the window behind the curtain, ran the wire into my room, scanner frame, then would use a modem to skip for moscow -- to skip from moscow to my office. one image took 2.5 hours. when it comes to digital now, i am a huge fan. during my entire dark room in a bag -- carrying my entire dark room in a bag. this is much better. >> i was fascinated by the photos of the neil armstrong photos -- the neil armstrong funeral on the ship. that was a pretty select group
of people. there must have been a vibe. >> it was an incredible honor. the family was very kind, very polite. they were subdued. the navy bent over backwards for them. this was an american hero. it was interesting, when i photographed the ceremony in ohio, there was a family publicist of sorts there. we had to get to know each other to make sure he was comfortable with me and what i was doing. the only picture that ever got questioned was at one point, someone said that they were going to do a flyover at the end of the ceremony. this was at a small country club that neil belonged to.
it was very modest. they were concerned how it might look, being on the lawn of a country club as a flyover takes place. if it would look elitist. my take on that was, if there is anyone in this country that americans would like to have seen had a good life as a result of his hard work, it was neil armstrong. they didn't argue it all. they said let's do it. >> i will take one more question and then we are going to break. back there, yeah. if the guy can get you the microphone. >> in the first decade of man's ram, families were very much front and center in the official story of the astronauts and the missions. there is a tv show being made
about the book "the astronaut's wife's club." nowadays, families have been much less in the picture. to what extent do you look at at conveying the story have you paid attention to the families. to what extent does nasa think that should be part of the story? what are the family's attitudes and how the astronauts feel? >> a very good question. i would encourage you to ask some of the astronauts directly as well. there are a lot of things as katie was saying when she shared her medical situation. nasa takes privacy very seriously. that extends to the family members as well. as a photographer, i would love to incorporate that.
i also respect that boundary. it is a balancing act absolutely. i'm not sure i can give you a really good answer for that one. it will be good to talk to katie and other folks and ask them how they feel about that. >> let's have a big hand for bill. [applause] >> friday on c-span, a review of the affordable care act posted by the alliance for health reform. and to discussion about current provisions affecting private and public health insurance. live coverage begins at noon eastern. at eight :00 eastern arguments in king versus burwell. >> the c-span city tour takes
history tv on the road. traveling to u.s. cities to learn about their history and literary life. we are visiting galveston texas. >> the rising tide, the rising wind, certainly through them. i watched in amazement as both of these factors that are the structures. at the time, we had wooden bathhouses over the gulf of mexico. we also had peiriers. as the storm increased in intensity, these big structures were turned into matchsticks. the 1900 storm struck galveston saturday, september 8, 1900. the storm began at noon and
increased in dramatic intensity. it finally tapered off toward midnight. this hurricane was and still is the deadliest recorded natural disaster in the history of the united states. >> watch all of our events from galveston saturday at noon eastern on c-span two. >> next, nicholas burns talks about foreign-policy challenges facing the u.s. including the u.s. relationship with israel. negotiations over iran's nuclear program, and the threat caused by isis. this is 50 minutes. >> now we will turn to foreign-policy challenges facing the united states. joining us is the former
undersecretary of state of political affairs, ambassador burns. mr. burns, let me begin with the headline in the wall street journal this morning on this deal that the united states is trying to broker with iran being helped by five other countries. the headline is that iran said it to near deal on nuclear fuel limits. a nuclear deal says that to ron must stay -- tehran must stay a year away from amassing enough fuel for nuclear weapon. >> the obama administration has done an excellent job of trying to negotiate with the iranian government. we have european countries as well as russia and china on our side of the table. they are all saying the iranian
government that we are not going to permit you to become a nuclear weapons power. we are trying to convince the iranians to limit themselves to civil nuclear power to construct civil nuclear power plants, to have a limited amount of enrichment and uranium, to have that heavily verified by the national atomic agency, and to keep them away from nuclear weapons. this was also a goal of the george w. bush administration. i was one of the people in that cabinet working on the iran administration. we work to sanction iran. i think president obama has pretty much taken up the baton from president bush. i see a lot of similarities between the two administrations on this issue. i am hopeful that there might be a negotiated agreement. john kerry was in switzerland earlier this week trying to negotiate this deal. it is not ready yet, but it does look like a ron and the other
countries are close to a negotiated arrangement. you will notice and remember that two days ago, the israeli prime minister netanyahu addressed congress on this issue. he was very much opposed to what the united states and the other countries are doing. we can talk about that as well. >> i do want to talk about that and show our viewers a little bit of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's speech and have your reaction to this part about making the case against nuclear deal with iran here it >> i'm coming here today to tell you that we don't have to affect the security of the world on the hope that iran will change their plans. we can insisted that restrictions on iran's nuclear program not be lifted for as long as iran continues its
and third, stop threatening to annihilate my country, israel, the one and only jewish state. [applause] >> mr. burns, what do you make of what the israeli prime minister is saying there outlining the case of why iran should not be allowed to do this? >> if you look at the speech and i listened to the entire speech, it was a compelling speech, very powerful, very effectively delivered. if you are a supporter of him, you have to say, it was successful from that perspective. i am sorry that he gave the speech in the u.s. congress. we have a tradition in the united states that when congress invites a foreign leader to address a joint session, the president has to agree to that invitation. in this case, for the first time
in my memory in several decades numbers did not do that. speaker boehner and the republican leadership invited him against the wishes of president obama. i thought that was a problem. i'm sorry congress made the invitation. secondly as someone who works for our government, to see a foreign leader come in to the heart of our country and denounced the president. he said some nice things about him at the beginning flowery language. he took the president's policy in iran and he tried to eviscerate it. that rubbed me the wrong way as american. i don't begin was appropriate for a foreign leader to come into the capital and tried to denigrate the president's policy on arguably the most important foreign-policy issue facing the country. third, it was a brilliantly delivered speech. it offered no alternative. it was a speech that said no. it wasn't a speech that said in
said of the president's policy, i think we ought to do this or that. i think that was the great weakness. in essence we have the entire world with us. we are sentient in, we have isolated the iranians, we have been working with the europeans and the russians of the chinese. we have the south koreans and indians and japanese buying less iranian oil because we asked them to. there is tremendous pressure on them. unless we get into a third big war in the middle east, i certainly think it is better to trust diplomacy, to see if we can negotiate a good agreement. if the agreement is not there, we should walk away. but if there is an agreement that limits iran and hasn't heavily inspected by the united nations, the international atomic energy agency, i think
that is a better deal for the united states. that may be the deal that president obama and john kerry are able to negotiate. i didn't like the speech from that perspective. agency, i think that is a better deal for the united states. >> the prime minister is concerned and it's worthy of a response. you have wall street journal this morning, it is not just israel. there were allies of the u.s. also fear president obama's deal. saudi arabia, other countries, egypt, they fear that the nuclear deal may enable iran to dominate the region. >> i think part of what you are seeing in the middle east is this sunni-shiite divide. they are opposed to a negotiated agreement with iran because they fear it will strengthen their position in the middle east. they are already strong. i am no fan of their government. i oppose almost everything they are doing. they are the dominant power.
they are one of the dominant powers and negatively in syria. through their proxy has others fighting in syria. for states to say that you can't make peace with iran because we have our own problems with them, united states has to do what's best for the united states. what is best for our country is to try to stop them from becoming a nuclear weapons power. i think the most any reasonable person would say it is better to do that through diplomacy if you can do it rather than resort to militarism and war. as you know very well, we are just coming out of two big land wars. our troops have been fighting for 14 years. we fought for eight years in iraq. now we have several thousand special forces back there to combat isis.
we have a lot of this generation of soldiers lost. we should try for a diplomatic solution. i think the critics in saudi arabia should wait for this deal to be finished before they start opposing it the way they have. we haven't even seen what the terms are yet. i trust the president and secretary kerry on this one. >> when you say we need to deal with it and you are talking about the strife and the conflict between sunni and shiite, how? you said earlier, you are part of the negotiating team with iran under the bushes ministration. how do you deal with that? >> we can't resolve all of the problems of the muslim world. the muslim world is very badly split, particularly in the middle east between sunni and shiite islam. that is part of the problem in iraq. it is a big part of the problem in syria. we can't be the king maker.
president obama has tried very hard i think to decide where the united states can use its influence and where we have to hold back. i own view is that i think we should obviously be supporting the iraqi government to try to keep iraq together. american air power has been striking isis for the past few months. i think that is appropriate. we do not have advisors in front-line combat. they are trying to help the iraqi government reconstitute itself. i do think that the united states and president obama could be more assertive and stronger leaders in syria. i don't mean we should go to war there. there are 11 million homeless in syria in a population of 22 million. we have to do more to try to help the homeless there and refugees. we do -- i do think we should be arming the moderate syrian rebel
groups so that they can fight isis. i am sorry that president obama has not made the decision to do that. ask let's get the calls. democratic color from florida. >> -- democratic caller from florida. >> the statement i want to make is that the jewish later came here before and made the big stink about saddam hussein. we jumped on that. we went over there and we wound up getting into a war that started all of the conflict going on now. i think the president is very wise about waiting to see what is going on. we don't want to jump into something like that again. tell me what you think about when he came and made that big stink about saddam hussein and
the nuclear weapons and all of that. >> thank you. i'd say this. i think prime minister netanyahu and the israeli people have a right to be concerned about iran. the iranian government is very responsible, they are aggressive. the supreme leader has vowed to destroy israel on several occasions. if you are in israel, you have to look at that problem very carefully and you have to defend yourself. having said that, i think the united states has to be very careful here to try to see if we can get our way through intimidation, economic sanctions, threat of force but mainly through diplomacy. all of that comes together when you are dealing with subs in the -- thugs in the iranian
government. i think president obama and president bush ahead of him felt that you had to try to at least see if that negotiated agreement with possible before you resorted to war. that is exactly where we are. if the negotiations fail and if a ron heads towards nuclear weapons, the united states might have to use airstrikes to knock the iranians back, to delay their program. if the negotiations succeed and we can freeze the program and keep them away from a nuclear weapon, i for one think that is a better deal for the united states. that is why i have been supportive of what president obama and secretary of state kerry had to doing. >> why is it a better deal? >> you have to weigh the pros and cons. i think that freezing the iranian program in place, establishing an international verification regime to inspect what they are