tv Future of Retirement CSPAN April 5, 2015 3:45pm-4:51pm EDT
not that meaningful or significant the fact that 42% of the company -- of the country have this aligned, and how they put forward with a pick to be their own political principle. a lot of the political's establishment has tried to belittle that, you know and that has taken the form of everything from, 40 2% of the country might say they are independent, but they are not really because when it comes to the election time, they vote for democrats or republicans. and never managed to point out in most elections, that is the only choice people have. >> more of the discussion from the national conference tomorrow night here on c-span. >> monday night on the communicators, author vincent.
vincent: building one of the largest cloud data centers secure mountain facility in utah. it is doing so because it's surveillance needs require that degree of storage. and security. the u.s. chief information officer three or four years ago ordered u.s. government agencies to move to the cloud and even civilian agencies are turning to cloud services. >> monday night at 8:00 eastern on the communicators on c-span2. >> next, a discussion about the aging population and how the current job market and longer life expense the arts betting
how people live and save for retirement. from the new american foundation in new york city, this is just over an hour. >> this is a big topic and there are so many aspects to it. we are in a bit of a new age here for baby boomers. it has been called the end retirement, a phrase teresa has used. we have been talking about this topic here talk about you think about that. >> talking about retirement that is voluntary that promises a secure income for the rest of your life, that is pretty much gone for most people. let's take off the top percent.
that is fine. little bit worried about living too long, but they are ok. the real problem is the bottom 90%. there is not a problem of long-term care insurance or finding work if you lost your job. a lot of people are retired earlier than they thought they would be. you're not alone. most people who are retired say i left work earlier than i wanted to. most of the so-called retirement withdraw from the labor market with no choice, either because of health, or because they are laid off. then they reenter the labor market at very different jobs than they had before. we have an issue where policymakers on the bipartisan policy commission are talking about raising the retirement age. economist and i think that is a good idea for social security.
however, the narrative is that people could just continue working for a year or two or more. he does things wrong with that is that most people do not have the choice. just work in their career jobs. they do have a choice to go back to work and they enter the labor market the teenagers are entering retail, other low-wage jobs. the other problem is that we are finding in our center race and income level and by sex in some cases there are i think every working woman understands this. the same mortality as workingmen. the idea that women live a lot longer because of genetics is probably not true.
there is some thing just something about work life. we make people work longer. some people will be able to have some kind of retirement for the rest of their lives. other people will have to work until they drop dead and that is what i'm concerned about. >> that is the dark side. i want to ask chip and marcy if you want to join in here as well. there is another side to this as well. boomers are a very resilient group. they have changed every age they have been through. what is your seeing or thinking on that? chip: i think that is true. as someone less followed them throughout my life, i hope they solve this problem so that when my generation get there, we will all be good. but every stage in life, they
have completely remade the idea of what it meant to go through that life. i agree with a lot of what was said. i think it does not really just apply to people on the edge of retirement. i think it applies to millennials as well, who are finding the job market to be a lot more difficult. if we look at what is happening they are important trends so pervasive there almost tied to nature. we have this graphic becoming more skewed, people living longer, and ultimate -- older segment as well. that is one trend. the other trend is the rapidly increasing ability of technology. technology itself is competing for jobs. those two does things together i think of putting incredible
pressures on all of our institutions. the way that we behave as individuals, commercial institutions we have an i work for an asset manager. we're thinking about, how can we serve our clients in this changing environment, but also the institutions we have around what a retirement should look like, it was nice and whoever got to enjoy it, that is great but let's face the reality of today's situation. those are things we think will be, if there is going to be a crisis, i hesitate to use that word because it brings so much drama to it, put all of those need to change. coming back to the point of your question for optimism here, the
hundreds of individuals who have been using the later part of their working lives to solve social problems. some of them come the financial kinds of problems we're talking about here. i do have many examples here in new york. sometimes, their everyday people and sometimes careers, david campbell. the volunteers, he put all of his life experience into those projects. he calls himself a member of the good for nothing club. he says we do good for nothing. a domestic worker, an immigrant in new york city who had worked as a nanny and a caregiver.
she became an advocate and works at the domestic alliance, got a job with benefits in her and get her 60's. some with paid jobs, some with organizations. there is a big question of what that is like. >> need to work and a desire to work. >> on the need to work and the desire to work? click yes. -- >> yes. i want to reflect on things. for me, one of the issues --
[indiscernible] this organization. it would be hard to do that. personal story might help. maybe a personal story will help. i think about my mother. her mother has to take care of my grandmother. my mother wanted to go back to work she was already in her early 60's. social security benefits early. she has found meaningful activities she can be engaged, but the reality is, that is fine, social security is fine as long as everything goes well. when the car breaks down, she
does not earn enough to be able to buy to make major repairs. she is ok because she has kids who can help her out. but i do not think she thought -- so she thought, when i hit retirement, she will be doing stuff, financial -- financially independent. worried about the people where they might have enough to get by, but when some kind of crisis concerns -- those are the kaiser people i think about. >> particularly among the boomers, the first generation suddenly told midstream. it is for you to put together.
it is not that great. perhaps some of you want to talk about that. can we probably have those numbers on hand so i will start. we look at what people have now a different age groups, my team at the new school, and we project out what their income will look like. about six other groups at universities and centers do it appeared our numbers conform with most of theirs. when we look at what people have, people 50 and over on average have a little over 100 thousand dollars. it is a huge variation and motion -- most people have nothing in their retirement accounts. we are just looking at near retirees look at what they're going to have, and low to middle-class people, they will be downward the mobile.
about $17 per day. the only way i can get my students and journalists and myself to understand what that really means. it is the first time since social security was started for graham present terms of in sums -- income security. the same time, many of them but not all, many of them will live a lot longer p 15% have a chance of making it past 90. that things happen when you get old. you are at risk of bad things happening when you get old. we are looking at what that might mean for state and local budget. they are the first entity's online to provide food and housing. we look at what this might need for aggregate demand in the community when the income -- income the biggest growing group and what it might mean for the quality.
i am seeing most people really do care about doing meaningful activities when they retire. all of our friends have the choice to change the content of their day. they are going to be looking for what works to get income. it turns out that low income seniors often don't have adult children or anything in their savings account. the people who have children usually are better off. we are in a crisis. we don't have the social structure.
we don't have the caring labor. >> when you use the word crisis i think the crisis applies more to institutions than people. i do think we will see the institutional change we need to. let's start with an institution that has been around 30 years. if you look at what really happened it's about 35 years old, started in 1980. you have -- the boomers grew up when we were slowly moving to a system where they were funding all of the risks. those are risks that present themselves in old age around
retirement. what do we mean about retirement. you're not able to sell your human capital in the marketplace anymore because you choose not to or you can't. and so the boomers -- my impression of what happened was that over 30 years we made the changes to make it the third leg of the retirement replacing traditional style engines. that caught boomers by surprise. i did not know that this is what i was going to live off of in retirement.
talking about why you can be optimistic about institutional reform. if you are a 25-year-old, you are automatically enrolled in a 401(k) plan. you are automatically put in a fun that's going to take a fair amount of investment risked when you're young, then become more conservative as you get older. you will earn real money as opposed to giving up with inflation. your employer has the option of increasing your contribution rate over time. my point is that we have seen institutional reform in an important part of the marketplace. if you are a 25-year-old and you are in a well-designed plan, you
have a good chance of having that be there for you when you are ready to retire. now what we need to work on -- it does not cover people who don't have a job, people who have part-time jobs, so there is room for a lot more reform and improvement in the system, but we have seen instances where there is that institutional reform. the last thing i will say is that -- again, i want to come back to the point. we are focusing on the boomers and the people in retirement. it is putting incredible stress on the system and the millennials. it is across the whole demographic. if we don't think about it in that way, we are missing -- we will make mistakes and how we reformed institutions. the biggest mistake we could make is asking the millennials
to take on too much of the responsibility of who we are asking to pay for the institutional reforms. we don't want intergenerational resentment. that will lead to bad things. it is not just a boomer problem, it is a societal problem. >> [inaudible] >> a lot of this starter jobs are -- >> do you want to comment? >> one of the thing i want to say is -- i am worried that the find contributions are not just
an issue where the boomers got caught off guard. we have been looking at defined contribution plans and how the fact that they allow people to access the sons -- the funds prior to retirement. during the great recession, did people when faced with financial pressure start tapping into those moneys? it depends on how you measure it. we got upwards of 50% tapping in in some way. i feel like the train has left the station. if that is what we are going to have, we have to help people think about, are you sure you want to tap into that during a recession?
it's not just the baby boomers who got caught off guard. even for those of us who have employee provided clans, we have things to think about as well. not being able to pay your rent, utility bills and how that is associated with drawing down on your retirement. mostly>> it's mostly lower wage workers? >> know it's middle-class workers who are tapping into their plans. the lower workers don't have anything. i want you to sharply focus on how different -- the 401(k) system is a predatory system.
the fees are sky high people don't know what it is. the protection of the money is not protected in an ira. it is being used -- not blackrock -- other financial institutions because you're still in the institutional space -- the 401(k) is inherently a flawed system. it is voluntary, commercially run all the money has to be fully liquid, even though it is for long-term savings. they can only match short-term liquid accounts. we are the only country with tax-deferred retirement money that we allow withdraw before retirement. other country set that we are giving you a tax break, you can use it before retirement.
hardships are something that happened once-in-a-lifetime, where's people with for one of case, it happens every couple of years. it's a savings plan, not a retirement plan. one of the reasons we have a crisis is because of the experiment with the 401(k) system has failed. we need a mandatory system on top of social security managed by institutional investors. i wish all 25-year-olds would enter a retirement account. most companies do not have a retirement plan. it is over 50% and it is falling. small employers, medium-sized employers, and even some big employers are not providing retirement plans. so, stop the $140 billion
incentives to try to get people in it. stop the predatory fees. protect all retirement money that is in iras. expand social security, not reduce it. >> there has been a movement towards a low fees and targeted index funds to there is more awareness. -- and targeted index funds. there is more awareness. >> look, the joke i typically use is that you look at aca affordable care act. what does 401(k) even mean? we never intended this to be the plan it is today.
if we would have, we would have given it another name. we have tried to make it good. and talking about regulatory reforms, we made the biggest improvement to the 401(k) system that we have made since its inception about eight years ago. i think is reforms have shown promise. to the point, it's not a retirement plan. what is a real retirement plan do question mark retirement plans allow u.s. an individual to take away the uncertainty about when you're going to die, right? it says i'm going to get a paycheck for life. how many people in this room know when they are going to die? none of us. if you do know, don't raise your hand. nobody really knows. what we should do is that we should put our money together and we are all going to pay out
and average out our life expectancies, and that unfortunate people who die earlier are going to subsidize -- and i hope for those whom that happens to, that that is not your last thought. then the people who live longer get to receive money from the people who died earlier than expected. that is the only way that we have been a for -- we have been able to figure that out. that makes such a difference in the efficiency of your money. if you're going to go out and self-insure your retirement risks if you're 65, you're expected to live to 85. that is average mortality. you are on average there, but we should prepare beyond average. not everybody is going to be above average, so you are saving
more money and spending less. your money is going less further than it could be. if you're in one of these mortality structures, which is social security, by the way. it is how old defined benefit plans work. your system when about one third farther. when we talk about a savings crisis, i feel bad because i know people are saying, what do you want me to do? i'm saving as much as i can. if we can figure out how to make that money go farther in retirement, that would be a relief on the pressure of trying to save more. that's what those plans did. the biggest problem today would be -- i want to be clear, there are some badly designed plans that have bad fees, too expensive. i want to be clear about that. we are big believers in transparency and fees, that you
can solve these problems with low-cost index funds. having said that, your money goes about one third further through the use of a well constructed mortality pool. it has been impossible to get that in a 401(k) system. there are some things that would be a great way to be an investment vehicle. that mortality pulls could invest in. -- pools could invest in. the only weight to -- the only way to get access to that is through insurance companies. insurance companies have their own issues and addressing the market. that could really make a big difference in solving this problem. >> thank you.
let's move a little bit to the savings crisis, a lot of people don't have money. people are working longer trying to live longer, trying to hang in there, and there is a huge variety. does anyone want to talk to that issue? job market, how people are perceived when they are older. you want to pick that up? >> it's your turn. >> we focus on not just people who are working longer, but the social impact as well. we are not looking at the whole market. i am looking at an example of working longer. when the people i've profiled is here in a book i wrote recently.
he is sitting right there with the glasses on his head, retired , a new york city parole officers, and has been working for 30 more years since. is now in his early 80's. he let me say that because he trusts me and he still looking for a new job as we speak. early in his career, he got a degree in social work at nyu and he went and had a long distinguished career and law enforcement. when he retired, he did a bunch of things that are common for people who want to continue to work and know that they have to support themselves for another 30 years. yes, he had attention. but he needed extra money. he is a caregiver, another issue that comes up for people. i feel like he personifies what
we are talking about. he was motivated by doing something that mattered at each step of the way. he started an organization that places people who are over 55 in nonprofits and government agencies. there are people who still need to make money, want to contribute, and want that purpose. he ended up doing the kind of work that human beings are needed to do. he went back to his social work roots and spent a lot of time at a hospital working in a group. health care is one of the growing fields that we do see. i feel like that his trajectory is so much about what we are talking about. he is not able to take a break. this provides meaning and a financial safety net. the other thing that he did that i see people do is that he went
back to the police academy in his 50's and became a detective in brooklyn after he is -- had retired. we are working with community colleges, four-year institutions, to figure out about the needs of skill enhancement to invest in the market. if you're going to have to continue to work, you will need a different set of skills that you had first in life. another set of institutions that need to change our learning institutions. how are they going to be able to help these people? certificate programs, short-term training, and developing skills that are relevant for the job today, not 30 years ago when you first enter the job market.
>> did you want to add into this? >> the people who i have interviewed in the last year or two, there is a degree of variety among those people. they are in their 60's and older and have had to face taking care of themselves in a new way. they can't retire. they have to downsize significantly. they have to keep working or downsize significantly. one of the things that i am struck i is that one person is a former executive now flipping hamburgers at a golf course. he loves his job. he likes the activity of it. the other woman is great young, 62 but faced early job loss. she downsize significantly.
she living in a friend's basement in cape cod and working at a gymnasium for $13 an hour. she has a different view on her life right now because her former corporate life was stressful. i think one of the things that is the resilience that is required in older age that maybe was always needed. i am curious if anyone wants to comment on the psychology of that? >> we look at thousands of people in our data set. what i am finding is that people do want to live, and there is what we call psychological cognizant dissonance. if you're only making $13 an hour and you can't do anything about it, a natural psychological thing to do is
tell a reporter that things are fine. [laughter] what we find in this big data set is that if people lost their job involuntarily at any age, but especially older, that their rates of depression go up. it seems to affect their rate of morbidity, which is how many activities you need, and eventually affects mortality. we are seeing how you are treated in the labor market is really affecting health, mental health, but also physical health. we are also finding -- i think we talked about this before -- that the jobs older people have now are actually getting worse. i feel like i don't have control over my time at work and that it is a question about not being monitored. there is a lot more supervision and hierarchy. if you're at the lower hierarchy
your whole life, you're going to have a greater risks of stroke. there is more bending and stupid stooping. we think that is linked to many older people taking warehousing jobs. if anybody saw that article about people working in amazon warehouse is good that the showing up in the data. i love the resilience of the human brain to say that whatever i am doing is just great but the real effects in terms of mental health and information stroke risks, seem to be correlated with downward mobility. >> sorry. let me throw it out there and then we can talk about it.
you're talking about a woman living in somebody else's basement, so i do a lot of research on racial differences. one of the things that i think about in relation to my mother is part of our glorified story of retirement is that we will have a home that is already paid off. i'm starting to think about a subset of the population that is reaching old age and they don't have that bill. they have a rent check. i don't think we used to think about that in the past. we think they would not have a rent check or mortgage payment. i think that is an issue that we will have to deal with as a society as well.
>> the other thing, and we will get better understanding this, is the assumption that you can discontinue to work. we saw the exception here, and kudos. i will talk to you afterwards. we know that there is a great economist at harvard and when he speaks, he studies cognitive decline in people as they get older, and it starts in your 50's and accelerates through your 60's and 70's. he did this exhibit -- when you speak at our event, never -- because half the room feels like
they're failing the test that he is asking us to take. to take away from that is -- why did the notion of retirement come about to begin with? it came about in the late 1800s early 1900s, because companies -- as industrialization took effect and people were operating big machines, they realize that if you did not give people an opportunity to leave, they wouldn't, and so you would have people with declined cognitive abilities driving locomotives through railyards to no good. and so, that was kind of how the early retirement systems came about in the united states. we need to get a really good handle -- to the extent that there is a crisis, where is the most effective way of having the institutional reforms, and one of them is that we need to
understand that there are some people who will need assistance. there will always be people in need of assistance, but there were also be those who will be able to work longer if we can create the right labor conditions for that, but we need to make sure they are making the right financial decisions beforehand. we need to create a market labor situation so that can do that. we don't want people making important financial decisions as a society in their 80's that will not lead to good results. >> given that role, handling our finances health -- how important our close family ties and the difference between people who have that and don't have that? i do think it becomes more important as you age to have people helping you. >> for me, i always try to think
about who is ensuring your risks. you can buy insurance, health care insurance. you can do that. another form of insurance is your family, and it comes with with people who have enough money. i will give you what is left over. if i spend it all, it's coming back on you. it's like a tiny insurance pool of family members. >> doctors and doctors and laws -- daughters and daughters in law. it turns out to be we are finding out the people who are taken care of do do a little better, even though they are worse off to begin with. it is hard to disentangle.
it is pretty bad for the woman who is -- she is working, most women do work, and do the caretaking. it is even worse when they are taking care of little kids. it does probably -- hurt the adult woman's labor force predictions. it is hurting her own retirement. actually not having a good care system in and having people with inadequate income is hurting that next generation of working women and their families and their own retirement for the next iteration. i am going to think of something -- their own retirement for the next generations. i am going to think of something optimistic to say. >> i kept hearing this phrase 55 is the new 50. i wanted to ask everyone here
what they thought about that. i wanted to ask what your view is on that. if you want to comment on that. >> [inaudible] >> in my circles, we say the new 65. trying to attach the earlier years, one thing you are doing is discounting the world of experience. you just said that we need to put value on the human talents that exist. that's the only way. owning your age as you age is a very important piece for ending age discrimination. i think we need to out ourselves. we are not comfortable with this. we all have to be really comfortable with that.
>> i think individually, we are better off today than we were when we chose the 50 benchmark. we are on average more healthy and have more human capital, and are looking for opportunities to use it. institutionally, they are in need of help. they have that capability, they have the potential, but you are not able to use it. because of the changes we made in the retirement system itself, you may be more soft than a 50-year-old was a few years ago. there are good parts of it, the opportunity to live better as you live longer, but you are doing that and a context that need some repair. i think these kinds of events and discussions are where the
change starts to happen. >> i'm teresa. i'm 57. >> good. >> when i think of the phrase 55 is the new 50. i think of the phrase, 65 is the new 17. i really like what you said, that 55 can be the new 50, the new 17, because there is a lot of worker training that people want access to. one of the unfinished is this is of the aged discrimination act is based on how much training they give current workers. if you are at work, don't do that. the strategy would be
especially if you are woman, do everything you can to act younger so that you get training. you might be right. maybe i'm not an activist or revolutionary at heart, or you can join a union. >> you can hire as well if you are in a position to hire. >> and if i have --, youyeah yeah, you need capital for that. >> they have developed a set of principles and they have gotten a number of companies to subscribe to these principles. that is exactly the issue we are talking about. >> i absolutely agree. there is some hope. business training that happens is on the job, and that should happen here. >> i am optimistic and
pessimistic. 65 is the new 50, and that will be positive for some and negative for others. i guess i keep reading about the people who are in the situation that i am in. i am looking forward to working for a really long time. >>we look at our peers and our position compared to what they have. it's not necessarily as positive and experience as it is for others. maybe institutions?
>> we are not collectively defined by age anymore. >> that's right. it is very different. >> there are commonalities. >> i would love to open this up for some questions. i want to give you time to ask questions. you can ask anyone on the panel. >> hello. i am michelle. i am 66. i'm so glad to see this panel because i don't see a lot of talk about this. honest, meaningful talk. i am very clear that despite what is called the recovery, main term america is struggling to put food on the table.
most people. i have a different mindset. but, one thing i believe in is this ability to brainstorm and think of things we love to do that you are good at and create income streams. i'm surprised that there isn't more discussion about that because it could be something as simple as walking dogs. i love animals. when my business was slow a few years ago, i put a card called the pet nanny, and i went around and walk dogs. it made me feel like i was doing something. i don't see enough of it. the problem is the mindset and that everybody feels like the ground was pulled out from under them. everything that we thought was going to be, no longer exists.
it is something that people cannot recovery -- recover from. they need to hear messages that they can create meaningful alternatives, maybe not what they thought, but meaningful alternatives. >> coming back, i just mentioned the global coalition on aging. i was surprised at this. they indicated that the fastest-growing entrepreneurial segment where people in your age group. we all reader about 18-year-olds making a lot of money, but the fastest-growing entrepreneurial segment is your age group. >> much of it is what is called micro-business, very small operations.
>> [inaudible] we really have to sort out -- there are people who are working in jobs that are valued. [indiscernible] i think that people who have lost their jobs, it's not fair to call that a retirement problem. that's a problem with our economy. that is due to enormous inequality and tax codes. changing the retirement change or social security is fine for middle-class workers who -- i
think it's wrong for some people. i thought the idea about using comparative mortality 441 ok's -- 401(k)s -- i have heard it before -- i would be interested to hear about that, but we need to sort out how we treat the various issues. we need jobs for people who would have otherwise been employed in manufacturing. maybe all these problems we hear about, batteries, airbags, will bring us back the manufacturing system.
i would appreciate sorting out the problems a little bit better. >> good point. >> you made the point much better than i did. we are seeing the effects of a lot of the issues we're talking about, and sometimes were calling it retirement, sometimes recession, sometimes technology, sometimes globalization. it is really all interlinked. what you were talking about doing with your mother, that's part of the same thing that is what happening to the boomers affecting younger people, and even younger people. it is all linked. i know you have a ton of stories, but policymakers spend a lot of time dealing with these issues, and they are very concerned about it, but they
also only have a certain amount of political capital. if you think about it, they have a limited amount they can spend. we have made proposals around putting, letting people puool or mortality in plans years ago. there was guidance on that three years ago. it has been seven years. one reason why is that they knew exactly what to do. they were really bright people. they were saying behind closed doors that we spent most of the capital we had on health care reform, and we felt like we needed to do that. just talking about it -- people
are talking about it and are trying to address it in a realistic way, but it is tough. i am sure you fought good fights. >> i have good news. the federal government is not doing anything, but in 17 states and new york city, they are setting up a plan to have everybody in the state and city join a retirement plan. that would be basically a public option. that would be an option to the commercial systems, low fees, puooled mortality. california passed a law, new york is in favor of it. there are a handful of important states -- unemployment insurance, workers compensation, social security -- and then it
gets bumped up to the federal level. i am realistic about there being a government solution to the pooled mortality issue. i'm not optimistic about the one issue you brought up. before we start talking about the 65 girls, we have to make sure that the 15 million people who are underemployed and out of work, even though we are in a recovery. that is priority number one. employer of last result. the private one sector won't create good jobs. the government could. >> the other thing we have not talked about tonight, which has been extremely difficult to retirees, is what is happening
to interest rates. we build an index at black rock that tells people what the fair cost of their retirement liability is. that index is up this year about 18%. if your assets -- for a 55 year old -- if your assets didn't grow why 18% you fell behind in terms of what those assets are going to produce for you in retirement. that's a lot. the low interest rate environment that we have now and again demographically you are starting to see more studies saying is is going to be a long-term effect. >> we are trying to create jobs with low interest rates, but we not doing a good job and it's causing retirement insecurity. >> there was a question in the
back. >> sounds like a great index. >> do i need to out myself? i am 59 years old. i feel like i'm 17 years old. [laughter] i have been following this conversation with great interest because you guys are hitting on some very big subjects, deep subjects. one of the points that was raised was about finding ways of being entrepreneurs etc. that is a bigger issue than what your data and searches led to. i've been one of those people. i have been fortunate to create these income streams and been a great life. it always comes with risk. it applies not only for the search for meaningful work but the risks related to aggressive
financial services industry, we spent the last 50 years since the development of portfolio. -- what folio there he, we have been about managing risks. -- we spent the last 50 years since the development of portfolio theory, we have been about managing risks. it comes with the conversations when i talked about building a portfolio, i might has well have been speaking a foreign language 50 years ago. everybody knows what that means today. what we need to do is very quickly get to a place were we all understand what were talking about, where we are managing retirement risks. i am confident that we will get
there, but were not there yet. >> it really does affect longevity minimizing health risks. companies are finally incentivizing healthy behaviors. has anybody seen this great health company add about the reimbursements you can get. you can get money back for joining your gym. this is starting to become a more common image that we are seeing. that's another way that will affect us all. >> one more question? >> i wanted to comment on something that teresa said.
not working, getting depressed -- that's not in my vocabulary. the second aspect of it is personal, fear. i think in one of my many communications, i mentioned that i am working because i need to and i am afraid. i don't want to sit and starve and watch people go to work. i have a strong need to feel like i'm part of the mainstream. i am afraid. i am really afraid. i'm going to be 82 and a couple of weeks. i don't think about my age. -- i am going to be 82 in a couple weeks. that's what is important to me. when you mention the psychological, it lit a light in
my head. i can't speak for others. i can only speak for myself. a lot of people that i know, my peers, they say, what are you doing with yourself? i say i am still working, part of the crowd. >> i get it. >> people say, what are you doing? [laughter] i think that is gender specific. [inaudible] [indiscernible] i don't think you should worry about it. [laughter] >> wow.
what an ending. that is a great ending. >> thank you so much. >> thank you for this terrific panel. you have been wonderful. >> thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]